The symbol of Scientology
Juan Mondo
has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s out
Christianity or what?
What is the "X"? What does it mean?
Serious questions hoping for a serious answer.
mac...@gmail.com
HunterM...@gmail.com
> On May 11, 8:52 pm, Juan Mondo <Mo...@nyt.com> wrote:
>
> > I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a Cross
> > has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s out
> > Christianity or what?
> > What is the "X"? What does it mean?
> > Serious questions hoping for a serious answer.
>
>
> http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/
>
> Good read.
It's supposedly to represent the 8 truths or something. I didn't
bother with the read, don't care too much.
But, I DO know, for a religion that says it has no ties to
Christianity to use a cross like that, sure pisses off Christians/
Catholics when I hand them my "Why has Scientology stolen your cross?"
flyer. =)
Tom Newton
Juan Mondo <Mo...@nyt.com> wrote:
If you are a serious poster asking serious questions, why is it
that according to google groups you have posted only five times,
ever, and all them on this group?
Looks to me that you are one of the stinking trolls who hangs out
here and posts malicious and ignorant garbage about the Church of
Scientology and Scientology under dozens of different aliases.
Why don't you consider getting a life, you stupid loser?
But I hope you don't. You and your stinking troll buddies make
this group look BAD.
Tom
--
The Truth will set you free:
http://www.sethcenter.com
Juan Mondo
Thank you for your remarks. I appreciate your feedback.
I am just searching for the truth or a further understanding of
Scientology.
I Will consider your response in my search.
Thanks again
Juan.
On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:09:57 -0700, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid>
wrote:
Juan Mondo
I am surprised at your response however. It seems "mean" and
provocative.
Why is it a point of reference that I have posted only five times?
What is the number of posts I have to make to ask serious questions?
And one more thing - why am I a "Stupid Loser"?
I may be ignorant about Scientology but ignorant does not equate to
loser. Or "stupid".
So I ask questions.
Does asking questions about something I have no knowledge about make
me "a stupid loser"?
I've been to the Scientology web site. Nothing there has answered my
questions. So I post them here.
On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:09:57 -0700, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid>
wrote:
>On 2008-05-12, in <2gff24l7gk3jqe9gq...@4ax.com>
redco...@gmail.com
> Well Tom, as I said I am seeking the truth about Scientology.
> I am surprised at your response however. It seems "mean" and
> provocative.
> Why is it a point of reference that I have posted only five times?
> What is the number of posts I have to make to ask serious questions?
> And one more thing - why am I a "Stupid Loser"?
> I may be ignorant about Scientology but ignorant does not equate to
> loser. Or "stupid".
> So I ask questions.
> Does asking questions about something I have no knowledge about make
> me "a stupid loser"?
> I've been to the Scientology web site. Nothing there has answered my
> questions. So I post them here.
>
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:09:57 -0700, Tom Newton <t...@server.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >Juan Mondo <Mo...@nyt.com> wrote:
>
> >> I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a
> >> Cross has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s
> >> out Christianity or what? What is the "X"? What does it mean?
> >> Serious questions hoping for a serious answer.
>
> >If you are a serious poster asking serious questions, why is it
> >that according to google groups you have posted only five times,
> >ever, and all them on this group?
>
>
> >Looks to me that you are one of the stinking trolls who hangs out
> >here and posts malicious and ignorant garbage about the Church of
> >Scientology and Scientology under dozens of different aliases.
>
> >Why don't you consider getting a life, you stupid loser?
>
> >But I hope you don't. You and your stinking troll buddies make
> >this group look BAD.
>
> >Tom
Nowadays, it means there are more "X" members of the CULT than there
are members!
Askren
Tom is a Scientologist (or avid supporter for some reason), and they
believe the only way to get info about their religion is to buy and
read L. Ron Hubbard's books. Like I said, it has something to do with
some 8 truths or whatever in the 'religion'.
Now, Tom, in his frenzied state of defending Scientology, instantly
equates any post that isn't either a.) Psychiatry is evil, or b.)
Scientology is upstat and awesome, with 'Anonymous' and attacking
Scientology.
Your question is perfectly valid. His response is not. And yes, ALL
Scientologists respond to questions this way (even if Tom isn't one,
as he claims).
Juan Mondo
give dogma approved answers?
I have read "Dianetics" but am somewhat dismayed by Tom's responses.
Being called "Stupid" for asking honest questions (Or being called a
"troll" - what ever that means to him) is somewhat disconcerting. Who
on this group really can give answers - from a Scientology
point-of-view, about the beliefs of this Church? Or its benefits?
I hope I've made myself clear.
Juan
(Lookinmg for rational responses)
Askren
> Is there a contibutor to this group who is a Scientologist that can
> give dogma approved answers?
> I have read "Dianetics" but am somewhat dismayed by Tom's responses.
> Being called "Stupid" for asking honest questions (Or being called a
> "troll" - what ever that means to him) is somewhat disconcerting. Who
> on this group really can give answers - from a Scientology
> point-of-view, about the beliefs of this Church? Or its benefits?
> I hope I've made myself clear.
> Juan
> (Lookinmg for rational responses)
>
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:39:56 -0700 (PDT), Askren
>
> >Juan:
>
> >Tom is a Scientologist (or avid supporter for some reason), and they
> >believe the only way to get info about their religion is to buy and
> >read L. Ron Hubbard's books. Like I said, it has something to do with
> >some 8 truths or whatever in the 'religion'.
>
> >Now, Tom, in his frenzied state of defending Scientology, instantly
> >equates any post that isn't either a.) Psychiatry is evil, or b.)
> >Scientology is upstat and awesome, with 'Anonymous' and attacking
> >Scientology.
>
> >Your question is perfectly valid. His response is not. And yes, ALL
> >Scientologists respond to questions this way (even if Tom isn't one,
> >as he claims).
Well, sadly, the internet is your only source, outside going in and
'joining' Scientology. Though, for even that, I'll refer to Jason
Beghe's interview, where he made it clear that you really can't up and
'join' even if you WANTED to. You have to go through the communication
courses (TR's, though really they're just teaching you how to lie and
get away with it), then do audits, purifs, etc., etc. Lots of money,
lots of time, lots of brainwashing, no answers. MAYBE when you get to
OT III and learn the Xenu story, but that's another issue.
Anyway, from ABOUT.com---
The Cross of Scientology is the primary emblem of the Church of
Scientology. Designed by founder L. Ron Hubbard, its appearance gives
away its origins, with its obvious resemblance to the Golden Dawn's
Rose Cross. Hubbard was, as a one time occultist, undoubtably familiar
with Golden Dawn symbolism.
In any case, neither the Golden Dawn nor the Scientology symbol can be
considered "satanic" as is sometimes reported.
The Scientology cross has four arms and four rays emanating at their
intersection; these represent, according to the official explanation
the "eight dynamics" or "parts of life" in Scientology's basic
theology:
1) The Self
2) Creativity, sex, and procreation (family)
3) Group, society, community
4) Species survival (humankind)
5) Life forms in general
6) Matter
7) Spirit
8) Infinity or Supreme being
The horizontal beam of the symbol represents material existence, the
vertical represents the spirit, a concept directly borrowed from
Rosicrucian symbolism.
REF Link: http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsscientologycross.htm
--------------
Enjoy
Juan Mondo
in my library. I will re-read later with a new view vs a vis
Scientology.
Askren
> Thank you for the response. I actually have a copy of the Golden Dawn
> in my library. I will re-read later with a new view vs a vis
> Scientology.
>
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 22:05:30 -0700 (PDT), Askren
>
> >--------------
>
> >Enjoy
Welcome. All I did was throw it into google, and pick a decent site.
Though, no doubt some Scilon will shout that this must be a lie
because it's on the internet, which makes it evil. =P
Peter Widmer
The "S and double triangle" motif of Scientology's main symbol probably
derives from the black magic use of the snake symbol (the "wise serpent"
or Satan) combined with a deconstruction into two triangles of the Star
of David (rather like the reverse ritual of hanging the Christian cross
upside down to signify devil worship). This symbol - the magical
hexagram - was used by Hubbard and Parsons during their attempts at
incarnating the Antichrist in human form.
For the cross out cross Hubbard copied the back of Crowley's
Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main
Scientology church cross and symbol.
--
Peter Widmer <pwi...@quicknet.ch>
3803 Beatenberg <http://www.pewid.ch>
Askren
> 3803 Beatenberg <http://www.pewid.ch>
Meh, as valid as the occult aspects of Hubbard's Sci-Fi may be, too
many idiots and Scilons *cough*Tom*cough* would cry foul at these
claims.
Tom Newton
<pwi...@quicknet.ch> wrote:
> Juan Mondo schrieb:
>
>> I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a
>> Cross has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s
>> out Christianity or what? What is the "X"? What does it mean?
>> Serious questions hoping for a serious answer.
>
> The "S and double triangle" motif of Scientology's main symbol
> probably derives from the black magic use of the snake symbol
> (the "wise serpent" or Satan) combined with a deconstruction
> into two triangles of the Star of David (rather like the
> reverse ritual of hanging the Christian cross upside down to
> signify devil worship). This symbol - the magical hexagram
> - was used by Hubbard and Parsons during their attempts at
> incarnating the Antichrist in human form.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Someone is off their meds....
>
> For the cross out cross Hubbard copied the back of Crowley's
> Tarot-cards, a distinctively marked cross, which he used for his main
> Scientology church cross and symbol.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_cross
The Scientology cross is one of the principal symbols of
Scientology. It is most often used to represent the Church of
Scientology.
The cross closely resembles the Christian cross, but differs
from it with the addition of four diagonal rays between the
conventional horizontal and vertical arms. The eight points of
the cross represent the eight dynamics in Scientology:
1) The Self
2) Creativity, sex, and procreation (family)
3) Group, society, community
4) Species survival (humankind)
5) Life forms in general
6) Matter
7) Spirit
8) Infinity or Supreme being[1]
The Church of Scientology says that "the horizontal bar
represents the material universe, and the vertical bar
represents the spirit. Thus, the spirit is seen to be rising
triumphantly, ultimately transcending the turmoil of the
physical universe to achieve salvation." [2]
The Scientology cross apparently dates back to the mid-1950s.
Scientology's founder L. Ron Hubbard wrote in 1955 that "the
model of the cross came from a very ancient Spanish mission in
Arizona, a sand casting which [Hubbard] dug up" [3] He also
occasionally referred to it as the "sunburst cross".[4] Hubbard
was based in Phoenix, Arizona for a substantial part of 1952,
though it is not clear whether his asserted discovery of the
cross dates from this period.
Critics of Scientology have noted other possible derivations
from occult sources. The Scientology cross is similar to the
Rosicrucian or Rosy cross and the "crossed-out cross" of
Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. Hubbard was briefly
a member of the Rosicrucians and was involved in OTO "magical
workings" in Pasadena, California some years before founding
Scientology.[5]
The practice of prominently displaying the cross in Scientology
centers was instituted in 1969 following hostile press coverage
in the United Kingdom and elsewhere, when Scientology's status
as a legitimate religion were being questioned. In response,
Hubbard ordered that "Any staff who are trained at any level
as auditors (but not in A[dvanced] O[rganization]s) are to be
clothed in the traditioned ministerial black suit, black vest
white collar silver cross for ordinary org wear." [6]
-- endquote
Askren
> On 2008-05-12, in <g08o65$8d...@atlas.ip-plus.net> Peter Widmer
Wow, he really does have me killfiled, seeing as I ALREADY FUCKING
POSTED THAT.
Idiot.
Tom Newton
Newton <t...@server.invalid> wrote:
I should note here that the concept of the "Anti-Christ" is
a Christian one.
It is not a Scientological concept.
Tom
Askren
I though Scientology invented Christ!!
zeeorger
> Is there a contibutor to this group who is a Scientologist that can
> give dogma approved answers?
Short Answer: no.
Scientology indoctrination is such that they are not
allowed to answer with "verbal data". The standard
answer to requests for information about scientology
is to have you read one of their approved books.
Those with knowledge of scientology on this news group
are mainly ex-scientologists.
> I have read "Dianetics" but am somewhat dismayed by Tom's responses.
> Being called "Stupid" for asking honest questions (Or being called a
> "troll" - what ever that means to him) is somewhat disconcerting. Who
> on this group really can give answers - from a Scientology
> point-of-view, about the beliefs of this Church? Or its benefits?
> I hope I've made myself clear.
> Juan
> (Lookinmg for rational responses)
>
Tom is just an ass. Tom is, most likely, _not_ a scientologist.
He has never demonstrated any personal knowledge or understanding
of scientology.
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:39:56 -0700 (PDT), Askren
>
> <huntermage1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Juan:
>
> >Tom is a Scientologist (or avid supporter for some reason), and they
> >believe the only way to get info about their religion is to buy and
> >read L. Ron Hubbard's books. Like I said, it has something to do with
> >some 8 truths or whatever in the 'religion'.
>
> >Now, Tom, in his frenzied state of defending Scientology, instantly
> >equates any post that isn't either a.) Psychiatry is evil, or b.)
> >Scientology is upstat and awesome, with 'Anonymous' and attacking
> >Scientology.
>
> >Your question is perfectly valid. His response is not. And yes, ALL
> >Scientologists respond to questions this way (even if Tom isn't one,
> >as he claims).
z
Richard Ford
>
> - Show quoted text -
Much of Scientology seems to be a joke played upon the membership by
LRH.
We may never know what he was thinking.
Tom Newton
<9cba04b1-ee4b-4b8a...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.co
m> Richard Ford <doorma...@googlemail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Much of Scientology seems to be a joke played upon the
> membership by LRH.
That is utter nonsense.
Don't you have anything better to do than make a fool of yourself?
Oh. Sorry. I forgot. You're a troll. You can say anything you want,
because when you ruin the reputation of one name, you can simply
change it and adopt another.
<snip>
Hartley Patterson
> I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a Cross
> has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s out
> Christianity or what?
It's a Christian Cross. Ron the relic hunter found it in the ruins of an
old Spanish Mission out West somewhere - cant be arsed to find the quote,
and I expect he made the story up anyway.
The next story was that the eight points are the Eight Dynamics, a
Scientology concept stolen from elsewhere, and it's not Christian AT ALL.
Right, and the Pope is a Baptist.
The truth is that when Scientology began the USA was a religious
monoculture, everyone was Christian except for a few Jews. 'Religion' had
become a 'good' word, and it was only much later that Americans painfully
relearnt that not all religious people wear the white hats.
So Ron founded a Church with ministers and a cross, and the cult has been
trading on the good name of Christianity in America ever since.
--
Hartley Patterson
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/index.htm
http://news-from-bree.blogspot.com
banchukita
Juan,
Tom's pretty much a troll.
Scientologists aren't really allowed to be here to field those tough
questions.
If you go to their YouTube site, there's no way to comment.
When I went to ask questions after being invited to tour Scientology's
Flag Land Base in Clearwater, I was threatened with a 'noisy
investigation' that would uncover the 'crimes' I had to have --
Scientology dogma says if you criticize, you are a criminal.
You won't find active Scientologists here. You also won't find that
Scientologistts know very much about their own religion; for instance,
you don't even get the cosmology until you've paid stupid money for
'spiritual counseling'.
Scientologists can't even tell you where their executives are. All
they know is they ahve to "Keep Scientology Working" and there is a
horrific amount of pressure on them to Sell and Shut Up.
-maggie, human being
mac...@gmail.com
>
> Why don't you consider getting a life, you stupid loser?
>
Anyone else see a bit of irony in this question?
Roger Larsson
Seriously,,,,It's easier to do an X symbol than a $ symbol.
Jonathon Barbera
>Juan:
>
>Tom is a Scientologist (or avid supporter for some reason)
Wrong.
Jonathon Barbera
>I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a Cross
>has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s out
>Christianity or what?
>What is the "X"? What does it mean?
>Serious questions hoping for a serious answer.
I wish this were true!
Unfortunately, Scientologists are unable to confront the evils of
Christianity. Instead, they attempt to accommodate them and welcome
them into their church.
There should be a church that is devoted to Xing out Christianity!
(Where would I sign up for that?)
Richard Ford
Tom Newton
Jonathon Barbera <jonatho...@ispname.net> wrote:
He'd know that if he bothered to read my posts on this group.
But it's like he is with Scientology: He can't be bothered to
do any research so he just parrots the anti-Scientology
propaganda the "Anonymous" creeps dump in his lap.
Jonathon Barbera
No, they're pretty liberal about acceptance and crap, too. If you'd
ever read even one of Anton LaVey's books, you'd understand that it's
all just a big show. They're not Satanists other than in name and
imagery. Maybe they do it to freak out the Christians, but I don't
count that as a real effort to handle Christianity once and for all.
The Church of Scientology wasted years going after the psychs when it
was the Christians behind the psychs all along. Maybe the next Church
of Scientology will correctly target its number one source of counter
intention: Christianity.
Jonathon Barbera
You're insane. Seek exit counseling.
Howard
>
> Richard Ford wrote:
>
> >Jonathon Barbera wrote:
<snip>
> >> There should be a church that is devoted to Xing out Christianity!
> >> (Where would I sign up for that?)
> >
> >Church of Satan?
>
> No, they're pretty liberal about acceptance and crap, too. If you'd
> ever read even one of Anton LaVey's books, you'd understand that it's
> all just a big show. They're not Satanists other than in name and
> imagery. Maybe they do it to freak out the Christians, but I don't
> count that as a real effort to handle Christianity once and for all.
>
> The Church of Scientology wasted years going after the psychs when it
> was the Christians behind the psychs all along. Maybe the next Church
> of Scientology will correctly target its number one source of counter
> intention: Christianity.
Damn! And all this time LRH had given us to understand that it was
the Twelve Secret Bankers?
I'm mortified.
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
Askren
> On 12 Maj, 05:52, Juan Mondo <Mo...@nyt.com> wrote:
>
> > I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a Cross
> > has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s out
> > Christianity or what?
> > What is the "X"? What does it mean?
> > Serious questions hoping for a serious answer
Maggie is right. They're not allowed to even discuss their religious
beliefs. It's a very complex setup they have: You start with their
story of the universe, OT III. People who have completed OT III are
those who were 'ready' to read it. Those not 'ready', as per Hubbard's
teachings, will get sick or die from reading it. Therefor, those on
the lower levels don't know ANYTHING about the religion (Body Thetans,
Xenu, Teegeeack, etc.) and don't believe it exists. Those on the top
can't ADMIT any of it exists. So in essence, you have a whole religion
of people who don't actually know or discuss their religion. Some
Scilons will say this is a lie. But at the same time, when I was in
the Org, and talking to one of their counselors about the religion, he
both admitted it was and was not a religion in the same conversation.
They say on one hand, it's not so much a religion (prayer and
worshipping), but an 'applied spiritual philosophy'. On the other, it
IS a religion like Christianity, Judaism, and the like, when it comes
to claiming bigotry (even though it's not recognized as a religion in
Europe, Australia, or Canada).
Bleh.
Ignore the pro-Scilons. You'll see them claiming critics and Anonymous
have no facts and tell lies, but you will never get a real answer out
of them as to what is true.
They even say L. Ron's handwritten OT materials are forgeries because
they incriminate the Co$ too much.
Jonathon Barbera
Are there twelve banking families to represent the twelve tribes of
Israel or the twelve disciples of Christ?
Hephaestus
> Thank you for the response. I actually have a copy of the Golden Dawn
> in my library. I will re-read later with a new view vs a vis
> Scientology.
>
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 22:05:30 -0700 (PDT), Askren
>
> >--------------
>
> >Enjoy
if you're looking for pro scientology without the church you could
probably talk to the freezoners, personally I think it's all malarkey,
but you asked.
Fredric L. Rice
>I note that the symbol of Scientology is what appears to be a Cross
>has an "X" through it. Does this mean Scientology "X"s out
>Christianity or what?
>What is the "X"? What does it mean?
>Serious questions hoping for a serious answer.
Well, Hubbard was very anti-Christianity, and the "crossed out cross"
would appear to absolutely be a mocking of Christianity. But that's
not surprising. Hubbard was teamed up with Jack Parsons for several
years -- Parsons of the OTO. Even Alester Crowley told Parsons to
dump that insane L. Ron Hubbard.
In retrospect decades after Hubbard came up with the crossed-out-cross,
Scientology kingpins have tried to lie their way out of what the
denial of Christianity "actually means." The crie syndicate's fraud-based
explanations used to change daily until they started to settle down in
to whatever insane fraud they claim the symbol means today.
---
Still voting Republican? You're a traitor.
obscene dog
<jonatho...@ispname.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 12 May 2008 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT), Askren
><hunterm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>No wai...
>>
>>I though Scientology invented Christ!!
>
>You're insane.
Not as insane as someone saying that Christ is a piec of R6. You know,
the thetans were kept in giant cinemas for 36 days and had to watch
movies. Thzt's where Christ came from according to Hubbard.
>Seek exit counseling.
Like you did?
--
The Truth will set you free:
http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/ac/fga.shtml
Tom Newton is Alan Connor.