Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the Federal Republic of Germany. The ceremony is to take place June 3, two weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in the third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton to convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of Scientology. The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
On Wed, 24 May 2000 16:40:13 -0400, Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote:
Congratulations Bob and on your recent precident setting and most valuable win in Clearwater yesterday. Thank GOD for video camera's and the brains to keep it focused on that morons Howds face as he lay faking it on the sidewalk.... a cultie specialty.
That mess could have ruined any of us had it happened even with a video camera but without the resources to defend ourselves from the cult that you have.
thank you again, your support is much appreciated. I hope the rest of the picketers learn the value of having both withnesses and avoiding any possible remote chance of a confrontation with this cult.
>Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology >Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the >Federal Republic of Germany. The ceremony is to take place June 3, two >weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in the >third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton to >convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of Scientology. >The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > Federal Republic of Germany.
I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems to hold true for this "prize".
--Cornelius.
-- /* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */ /* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: phak...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */ /* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */
In article <c73jg8.enk...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Cornelius Krasel <kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes
>Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: >> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology >> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the >> Federal Republic of Germany.
>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the >"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as >Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is >rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from >Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would >start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything.
Actually he *did*. The various editions of "What is Scientology?" include photos of all the various awards Hubbard received, including those from his own front groups.
-- | Chris Owen - chr...@OISPAMNOlutefisk.demon.co.uk | |---------------------------------------------------------------| | THE TRUTH ABOUT L. RON HUBBARD AND THE UNITED STATES NAVY | | http://www.ronthewarhero.org |
> On Wed, 24 May 2000 16:40:13 -0400, Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> > wrote:
> Congratulations Bob and on your recent precident setting and most > valuable win in Clearwater yesterday. Thank GOD for video camera's > and the brains to keep it focused on that morons Howds face as he lay > faking it on the sidewalk.... a cultie specialty.
> That mess could have ruined any of us had it happened even with a > video camera but without the resources to defend ourselves from the > cult that you have.
> thank you again, your support is much appreciated. I hope the rest > of the picketers learn the value of having both withnesses and > avoiding any possible remote chance of a confrontation with this cult.
> Best Regards, Phil Scott
> >Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > >Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > >Federal Republic of Germany. The ceremony is to take place June 3, two > >weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in the > >third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton to > >convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of Scientology. > >The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
my congratulations too. and hopefully in the future anyone that pickets the church etc. will come with cameras so that they can defend themselves when they need to. isnt it a shame that in america this kind of behavior is promoted by the government. what are they thinking
-- travolta was just awful in that new sci fi movie. i love scientologists even more now
On Thu, 25 May 2000 13:36:12 +0200, Cornelius Krasel
<kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote: >Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: >> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology >> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the >> Federal Republic of Germany.
>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the >"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as >Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is >rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from >Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would >start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems >to hold true for this "prize".
What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
> Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: > > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > > Federal Republic of Germany.
> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the > "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as > Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is > rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from > Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would > start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems > to hold true for this "prize".
> --Cornelius.
i cant comment on the committe because i have never heard of it. maybe someone can give us some info.
i want to mention however that in afl there has been talk of how in europe werner has been given several i believe awards. these are some kind of humanitarian awards. i guess it could be said that if humanitarian organization are giving out awards to creeps like werner then what comes next.
> -- > /* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */ > /* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: phak...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */ > /* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */
-- travolta was just awful in that new sci fi movie. i love scientologists even more now
On Thu, 25 May 2000, Cornelius Krasel wrote: > Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: > > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > > Federal Republic of Germany.
> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the > "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as > Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is > rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from > Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would > start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems > to hold true for this "prize".
Along those same lines, you could also argue that there was not all that much difference between Churchill and Hitler. After all, they were certainly both supported by front groups from which they each received numerous awards. In other words, the above analogy does not so much reflect on the people being compared as it does on a personal readiness to discredit by association.
> Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: > > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > > Federal Republic of Germany.
> I have no evidence for my allegation, > but it appears to me that the > "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as > Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
No. Please do not redefine the meaning of "front group". A front group is a group where some people or another organisation is hiding behind. This committee *is* the real thing. All names are disclosed. There is nothing *behind* the committee, but there are more and more *supporters*, who are also speaking out in their own names and with their own names or known aliases.(See the list on http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de)
> Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: > > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > > Federal Republic of Germany.
> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the > "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as > Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
HaHa, in Germany, Scientology tries to run a DA-Campaign against Bob Minton. They approached different journalists, saying "Do You know, that the famous good old Alt-Charlemagne-Award-Committee is trapped by Bob Minton? We give You Information (i.e: the DA-Pack) that this men is not worthy for the ACMA. So please warn and educate the ACMA-committee with an article, written with the help of our our information (= the DA-Pack)" TG
Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote: > Cornelius Krasel schrieb: >> Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: >> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology >> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the >> > Federal Republic of Germany.
>> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the >> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious >> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as >> Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
> No. Please do not redefine the meaning of "front group". > A front group is a group where some people or another organisation is > hiding behind. > This committee *is* the real thing. All names are disclosed. > There is nothing *behind* the committee, but there are more and more > *supporters*, who are also speaking out in their own names and with > their own names or known aliases.(See the list on > http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de)
The supporters are mostly a.r.s. readers, from what I can see. The "committee" seems to be an outgrowth (I hope you prefer this to "front group") of the "Berliner Dialog" group (of which Mr. Gandow is incidentally the leader). I concede that the term "anti-cultists" may have been a bad choice but I couldn't think of anything better at that moment.
Well, I don't mind. I just want to put the thing into perspective.
--Cornelius.
-- /* Cornelius Krasel, U Wuerzburg, Dept. of Pharmacology, Versbacher Str. 9 */ /* D-97078 Wuerzburg, Germany email: phak...@rzbox.uni-wuerzburg.de SP4 */ /* "Science is the game we play with God to find out what His rules are." */
On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, refe...@bway.net wrote in <392d9266.24981...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort >of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*. Like the alternative nobel prize compared to the official nobel prize. There is an official charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
On Fri, 26 May 2000 16:58:34 +0200, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
Hausherr) wrote: >On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, refe...@bway.net wrote in ><392d9266.24981...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort >>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*.
What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>Like the alternative nobel >prize compared to the official nobel prize.
There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize, however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a more appropriate distinction for Minton.
>There is an official >charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to >human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
> There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize, > however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a > more appropriate distinction for Minton.
>>On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:53:42 GMT, refe...@bway.net wrote in >><392d9266.24981...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>>>What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort >>>of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
>>It is the Alternative Charlemagne *Award*.
>What has Robert S. Minton done to render "distinguished service on >behalf of West European unification, humanity and world peace"?
>>Like the alternative nobel >>prize compared to the official nobel prize.
>There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize, >however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a >more appropriate distinction for Minton.
Yes there is. It is donated by a guy named Jacob Üxküll or similar. However the prize is pretty much mainstream today, and is awarded one day before the official prize. For example, one prizewinner was an indian attorney who litigated (successfully) in the european patent court to prevent a US corporation from patenting the use of the seeds of the indian nim tree.
>>There is an official >>charlemagne award which goes to Bill Clinton, for his contributions to >>human rights. (hahahaha!!!!)
>Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered >Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights >award.
In a newspaper a few months ago it was mentioned that he received it for his contribution to human rights in yugoslavia.
>While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in >Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your >contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
Lets rather say he replaced genocide with collateral damage. And as we know now, the so-called "master plan" of the serbs was bogus, similar to the "Najirah" story in the gulf war. This is not to say that there wasn't genocide, but the story of a "master plan" was bogus.
>> There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize, >> however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a >> more appropriate distinction for Minton.
> ... it appears to me that the "European-American citizens committee > for human rights and religious freedom in the USA" is as much a front > group for anti-cultists ... > ... the prize is rather worthless.
I mostly agree. To me, this "Alternative Charlemagne Award" and the committee's name have a satirical ring. It's the ring of the 60s when there was an "Alternative Peace Prize" at the International Frankfurt Bookfair, alternative to the official one awarded by the German Booksellers Association. Nobody took that alternative freak prize seriously, except the freaks.
In the case of the Charlemagne thing, the Scientologists seem to be the freaks to take the award seriously. So, when they take something seriously, they act seriously - and then the reaction on them will be serious. They create their own deadly reality. If this is the outcome of the alternative award - OK.
> ... it appears to me that the "European-American citizens committee > for human rights and religious freedom in the USA" is as much a front > group for anti-cultists ... > ... the prize is rather worthless.
I mostly agree. To me, this "Alternative Charlemagne Award" and the committee's name have a satirical ring. It's the ring of the 60s when there was an "Alternative Peace Prize" at the International Frankfurt Bookfair, alternative to the official one awarded by the German Booksellers Association. Nobody took that alternative freak prize seriously, except the freaks.
In the case of the Charlemagne thing, the Scientologists seem to be the freaks to take the award seriously. So, when they take something seriously, they act seriously - and then the reaction on them will be serious. They create their own deadly reality. If this is the outcome of the alternative award - OK.
In ar<392d9266.24981...@enews.newsguy.com>, refe...@bway.net writes: >On Thu, 25 May 2000 13:36:12 +0200, Cornelius Krasel wrote: >>Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote:
>>> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology >>> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the >>> Federal Republic of Germany.
>>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the >>"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious >> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as >>Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is >>rather worthless. >What on earth is an "Alternative Charlemagne"? Is this some sort >of idiomatic expression that loses all meaning when translated?
What on earth is a "Diane Richardson": is it some kind of medical suppository?? I think that is supposed to parsed as an " Alternative (Charlemagne-Award) "; an alternative to the real Charlemagne award, which is presumably given by governments and large corporations for the things which please them, this one is given for achievements in 'alternative' realms i.e. radical campaigning and human rights work.
If you want to be identified (by name, pseudonymously or anonymously) as someone who supports this award for Bob Minton's actions of the past couple of years in regards to Scientology, forward to swat...@xenu.net a name or pseudonym, title or profession, city, country for inclusion with supporters already listed at http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de. How often do you get a chance like this to tell someone that you think they've done a good job? I'll post a letter similar to this for Odette Jaccard, too, just using word substitution. It's not cheating if you support them both ;-)
Previous articles posted about Bob Minton include the following:
On Wed, 24 May 2000, Joe's Garage wrote: > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > Federal Republic of Germany. The ceremony is to take place June 3, two > weeks before U.S. Congressional hearings are scheduled to occur in the > third year of an as yet unresolved decision to ask President Clinton to > convey disapproval to Germany for that country's treatment of Scientology. > The award site is http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de.
The addy of kra...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de, In article ID <c73jg8.enk...@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de>, On or about Thu, 25 May 2000 13:36:12 +0200,
Cornelius Krasel says...
>Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: >> Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology >> Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the >> Federal Republic of Germany.
>I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the >"European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as >Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is >rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from >Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would >start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems >to hold true for this "prize".
So the truth is revealed. Bob Minton is a Scn'gy terrorist acting like a critic of Scn'gy, acting like a Scn'gy terrorist, acting like a critic of Scn'gy, acting like he's acting......
> Thomas Gandow <gan...@is.in-berlin.de> wrote: > > Cornelius Krasel schrieb: > >> Joe's Garage <swat...@xenu.net> wrote: > >> > Robert Minton, a man noted for his public opposition to the Scientology > >> > Organization, will receive the first Alternative Charlemagne Award in the > >> > Federal Republic of Germany.
> >> I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the > >> "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious > >> freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as > >> Narconon is a front group for Scientology.
> > No. Please do not redefine the meaning of "front group". > > A front group is a group where some people or another organisation is > > hiding behind. > > This committee *is* the real thing. All names are disclosed. > > There is nothing *behind* the committee, but there are more and more > > *supporters*, who are also speaking out in their own names and with > > their own names or known aliases.(See the list on > > http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de)
> The supporters are mostly a.r.s. readers, from what I can see.
But this makes them not a front group.
> The > "committee" seems to be an outgrowth (I hope you prefer this to > "front group") of the "Berliner Dialog" group (of which Mr. Gandow > is incidentally the leader).
It grew out of a connection between some ARSians and german parents associations.
The "Berliner Dialog" is not a group or Organization, but (tries to be) a quarterly Magazin http://www.religio.de/dialog/dialog.html The Magazin *reported* on the letter of condolence and the committee. (Sorry, this issue is not online.)
I am not a leader, but only one of three Vize-presidents of the DCI and "incidentally" I am the editor-in-chief of the Berliner Dialog. The "Berliner Dialog" is edited by the Dialog Center International http://www.dci.dk and the Dialog Zentrum Berlin http://www.dialogzentrum.de
> I concede that the term "anti-cultists" > may have been a bad choice but I couldn't think of anything better > at that moment. > Well, I don't mind. I just want to put the thing into perspective.
> --Cornelius.
What is true is, that the DCI and the DZB are a supporting part of the European-American Citizens Committee for Human Rights and Religious Freedom in the USA http://www.alt-charlemagne-award.de
We support not only the committee, but also the idea, to give a human-rights award to someone who is defending human rights, freedom of information and freedom of opinion in the US of America. You are free to join this committee.
May be that Youare right and it really is a front group: But only in that sense, that the defense of human rights and dignity puts you in the frontline between Human dignity and Scientology.
I love the line about this year's biology winner...
"Finally, this year’s biology prize went to Peter Fong of Gettysburg College, a man who fed Prozac to clams. The treatment seems to make the mollusks happy—at least happy enough to reproduce. Prozac boosts the levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin, a chemical event that induces spawning in clams."
Feeding Prozac to clams... I wonder if this is prophetic?
> >> There is no "alternative nobel prize." There's an Ignobel Prize, > >> however. I think the "Kid Charlemagne Award" would be a > >> more appropriate distinction for Minton.
> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered > Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights > award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in > Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your > contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit bull.
Sometimes it scares me when I apply expert knowledge of the criminal mind - that a person with a criminal mind accuses others of what she herself (in this case) was doing - to what I see on the news group.
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 refe...@bway.net wrote: >>...
>>> Actually, the Karlspreis is awarded to those who have furthered >>> Western European unity. It is not presented as a human rights >>> award. While you might find Clinton's efforts to stop aggression in >>> Kosovo something to laugh about, not everyone shares your >>> contemptuous attitude towards ending genocide.
>>The above statement accusing those who think differently of sympathizing >>with genocide contains the viciousness and stupidity of a cult-trained pit >>bull.
>Oh come now! "Cult-trained pit bull"? I'll guarantee you've had far >more contact with the Church of Scientology than I've ever had.
That's sig material Diane
There is no need to categorize folks that are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists, whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak. The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
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