Marty about those "far left" court cases
Android Cat
saying that previous attempts generally failed because the lawyers were all
ambulance-chasers.
Marty is just darned modest to claim his share of the credit for *making*
those failures happen!
Scientology church faces new claims of harassment
December 22, 1988, Stephen Koff, St. Petersburg Times
/===
Although it has a large presence in Pinellas County, Scientology keeps its
business headquarters in California, and it was there that top
Scientologists and lawyers gathered to talk about O'Reilly, the lawyer who
was causing them trouble.
Joseph Yanny, 38, was one of those lawyers. He has since fallen out with the
church, but at the time, he was one of Scientology's top lawyers. Yanny
began representing Scientology in trademark matters in 1983. His other
clients include Corona Beer and the rock group Grateful Dead. By 1985, Yanny
was ``closely involved in the formulation of legal strategy,`` according to
court documents filed by Scientologists.
``I and others were told by (Scientology executive) *Marty Rathburn* that on
the orders of David Miscavige, the successor of L. Ron Hubbard as the head
of the cult, that the medical records of O'Reilly were to be stolen from the
Betty Ford Center, and another location in Santa Barbara, to show that he
was using cocaine, discredit him, and possibly blackmail him into easing off
on his $30-million verdict now on appeal,`` Yanny said last summer when
questioned by Scientology lawyers.
Yanny balked. ``I wanted no part of any criminal conduct to obtain the
stuff,`` he said in an interview with the Times. ``An alternative plan was
quickly arrived at to settle my nerves,`` he said when questioned by other
lawyers.
The new tack: Rather than steal the records, lawyers would get them through
the judicial process. Subpoenas were prepared for records from the Betty
Ford Center, the Eisenhower Medical Center and Cottage Care Center, all in
California. Specifically requested in the subpoenas, which are now on file
in federal court, were ``records of admittance for treatment of alcohol
and/or drug use or dependency, records of treatment of Mr. O'Reilly for
alcohol and/or drug usage, records concerning any known distribution or
receipt by Mr. O'Reilly of any illegal drug.``
Yanny said he protested again, saying the Scientologists were abusing the
legal system. He said he refused to sign the subpoenas, and although they
were filed with the court, they were ultimately never served. Yanny resigned
as church counsel.
\===
--
Ron of that ilk.
Eldon
> Marty is baawing about those court cases suing CoS from the "far left", and
> saying that previous attempts generally failed because the lawyers were all
> ambulance-chasers.
>
> Marty is just darned modest to claim his share of the credit for *making*
> those failures happen!
I find it amazing that he whines about "hate and falsehood" on the
part of Senator Xenophon with a perfectly straight face. He's just
plain delusional like a number of others on his blog. It's as if he's
still partly stuck in his old job -- a victim of "snapping" as Flo
Barnett and Jim Siegelman call it.
www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Sudden-Personality/dp/0964765004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258634170&sr=1-1
rhill
Sometimes I wonder if he is on a special mission, but that wouldn't make
sense, although I consider an about face re. CoS/Miscavige is always
possible.
The way he speaks of people critical of Hubbard's policies, I don't see
how he would be better than David Miscavige or Hubbard when it comes to
dealing with critics. In 1992, Miscavige told Koppel that "every single
detractor on there is part of a religious hate group," just like Hubbard
saw it. Rathbun is pretty much in the same line of thinking, as seen in
his 'Redux' post (in which btw he denounces 'generalities' by using...
generalities! Typical Hubbardism.)
He is parroting the same sociopathic views as Hubbard, making ridiculous
arguments, like when he says people criticizing Hubbard's writings are
like David Miscavige, and are his best friends, in effect 'coercing' his
followers who might want to disagree with him into not considering the
very valid points made by those regarding Hubbard's policies as the root
of the problems. Critics didn't write "Attacks on Scientology," "Keeping
Scientology Working," "Suppressive Acts," "Operation Freak Out," etc.
etc. (countless). But he rather not debate these *specifics*, he rather
throw the old tired "critics are hater" blah blah bawwww.
He should read Bill's latest blog entry, and ponder:
http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/2009/11/scientologists-what-went-wrong.html
The best blog out there to help Scientologists start deconstructing
Hubbard's "teachings."
--
Ray.
Eldon
> Eldon wrote:
> > On Nov 19, 1:12 pm, "Android Cat" <androidca...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Marty is baawing about those court cases suing CoS from the "far left", and
> >> saying that previous attempts generally failed because the lawyers were all
> >> ambulance-chasers.
>
> >> Marty is just darned modest to claim his share of the credit for *making*
> >> those failures happen!
>
> > I find it amazing that he whines about "hate and falsehood" on the
> > part of Senator Xenophon with a perfectly straight face. He's just
> > plain delusional like a number of others on his blog. It's as if he's
> > still partly stuck in his old job -- a victim of "snapping" as Flo
> > Barnett and Jim Siegelman call it.
>
> The best blog out there to help Scientologists start deconstructing
> Hubbard's "teachings."
>
> --
> Ray.
I suspect Marty is not as sane or stable as he tries to sound most of
the time. When anything comes up that contradicts his veneration of
LRH, he just blanks it out or natters. One of his sycophants said I
was trying to "gaslight" Marty when I asked if he might be a bit
delusional. I answered that I was introducing cognitive dissonance,
which can be helpful in deprogramming. But at least Marty published
all the comments.
Astrid
>
> I find it amazing that he whines about "hate and falsehood" on the
> part of Senator Xenophon with a perfectly straight face. He's just
> plain delusional like a number of others on his blog. It's as if he's
> still partly stuck in his old job -- a victim of "snapping" as Flo
>
Marty doesn't know left from right, St. Francis fromr Xenu. He's
uneducated, drowning in the dung pile of Hubbard's claptrap,
pretending that all the prayers directed at a creator or Jesus are
really all perfectly in line with Hubbard's spew.
He should stick to leaking his stories about his time as thug,
enforcer, the self-described THE TERMINATOR for crazy cult. I have
posted that suggestion but he rejects all of my posts now. That's
okay. He reads it.
He'll eventually get a clue that his faithful sycophants are a few
dozen, and beyond that, there are just a few thousand (or hundred)
apostates sucking at their own delusional version of LRH bullshit, in
not really following what David Miscavige's former right hand thug has
to say. There are many more thousands who just gave it up and moved
on. They aren't busy trying to sort out was real Dianetics and what
was DM Black Dianetics.
For example, who wants their photo and real name exposed on his blog,
for the world to know they are a still a believer in this insane crap,
made famous by an abusive, secretive cult?
Hubbard is not mainstream. He is still lunatic fringe.
Astrid
>
> I suspect Marty is not as sane or stable as he tries to sound most of
> the time. When anything comes up that contradicts his veneration of
> LRH, he just blanks it out or natters. One of his sycophants said I
> was trying to "gaslight" Marty when I asked if he might be a bit
> delusional. I answered that I was introducing cognitive dissonance,
> which can be helpful in deprogramming. But at least Marty published
> all the comments.
>
he can't do that, so he's imagining that THE TECH is his protection.
However, he's exposed.
I think he allows some of your posts because he thinks it will make
his followers rally around him, and it just isn't working that well.
Plus, unlike some of his followers, I do not believe Marty is all that
smart or well-read. He spent too much of his life wallowing in LRH
crap, and not reading other things, or thinking about other things,
outside the context of LRH bull. He has a sense of the law, because
his work involved stretching it, going outside of it. His grasp of
philosophy, literature, history, science etc., is very weak.
There is also the possibility you mentioned. Marty may have a touch
of the family illness, schizophrenia. It can manifest itself in a
myriad of very subtle ways.
By speaking out, Marty did do a key thing to help bring the cult down.
Think how close Rinder was, to not saying ANYTHING. Whether Marty is
mentally ill or not, doesn't matter so much. Marty will continue to
toss out a grab bag of crap, feeling a little heady with his new
voice, but when the cult crumbles, I don't believe all that many
people will gravitate toward Marty.
WIthout someone to ENFORCE LRH tech and policy, it falls apart.
Outside the cult, you end of with a loose collective of distinct
personalities, finding different things in what is true for them. They
want to feel like they are part of a community of people who believe
in this stuff, but without the cult, it just splinters into too many
interpretations. Those who aren't mentally ill, eventually start
thinking about other things that are more appealing spiritually.
In Anonymous, or in the general movement opposed to Scientology's
abuses and the way it operates, there is a lot of variation, and
people learn from each other's perspective. In Martyology, people are
supposed to be united by LRH tech, but without the cult, that is hard
to achieve. They are still very much about "handling" criticism, by
calling it "false data" or other such bogus LRHism.
There is no way to defend the crap in Scientology. Marty's defense for
the "science" in it, is that he has this fisheries man, Jim Logan,
KNOWS all the science behind it, and blah blah blah....more crazy.
Scientologists don't think, they KNOW.
Eldon
Quite a few people have had their photos published on Marty's blog,
and many more have their real names published there or elsewhere. This
is one of the positive outcomes of all the exposure: They aren't
really scared of Scientology anymore, and Scientology is very afraid
of what Marty, Mike & Cie. might spill next. So we can give them
credit for that. I think Xenophon got on the stick largely because of
the SP Times series and the French trial.
>
> Hubbard is not mainstream. He is still lunatic fringe.
That's the kind of talk that ensured your comments will be
censored. :-)
John Dorsay
> Hubbard is not mainstream. He is still lunatic fringe.
Maybe, but laughing at Hubbard has become completely mainstream :)
John
Astrid
>
> > Hubbard is not mainstream. He is still lunatic fringe.
>
> That's the kind of talk that ensured your comments will be
> censored. :-)
On second thought, what you mentioned about Marty's posting photos of
willing LRH-believing apostates changed my mind. It is a good thing.
People sitting on the fence could be swayed by that, especially if
they knew and liked one of those people.
The number of people who do that is tiny compared to the imaginary
"millions" in Scientology, but still, like you said, it shows they are
unafraid.
I noticed clips of Marty in the SP Times video series talking about
Miscavige beating people, was featured by one of the Australian media
outlets. When covering Scientology, it is difficult to choose a focus.
They put together a montage of clips of ex-members, Xenophon,
Scientology spokesperson, to shots of Tom Cruise, or David Miscavige
ranting....I wonder if people even know what is going on. It must be a
very complex story for the uninitiated to put together. But I guess
anyway you cut it, it all adds up to CRAZY.
Skipper
<7bc57a54-463e-4fba...@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
Astrid <Astrid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's no science anywhere in $cientology that wasn't ripped off from
someone else's work. If Martymoose can't figured that out, too bad. He
looks like an out of work boxer in that video. From what I knew of him,
he was always little more than a goon, now he apparently wants to be a
guru goon. Ain't happening.
Eldon
>
> > I find it amazing that he whines about "hate and falsehood" on the
> > part of Senator Xenophon with a perfectly straight face. He's just
> > plain delusional like a number of others on his blog. It's as if he's
> > still partly stuck in his old job -- a victim of "snapping" as Flo
> > Barnett and Jim Siegelman call it.www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Sudden-Personality/dp/09647...
Oops... that should have been Flo Conway. Got my Flo's mixed up
there.
http://conwayandsiegelman.stillpointpress.net/
Astrid
>
> There's no science anywhere in $cientology that wasn't ripped off from
> someone else's work. If Martymoose can't figured that out, too bad. He
> looks like an out of work boxer in that video. From what I knew of him,
> he was always little more than a goon, now he apparently wants to be a
> guru goon. Ain't happening.
LOL "Guru goon" ...I like that. Maybe goon is humanizing him though,
since he described himself as "THE TERMINATOR," a cyborg assassin from
the future, programmed by an evil midget in the present, using Black
Dianetics? Now I guess his battery running low, he's more a cyborg
retard, running on instructions from LRH's spaceship, or simply
whizzing along in the seat of his pants, on the written word LRH's
galactic wisdom.
Bobb999
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just 'cause Marty's out, hardly means he's now absolved of all his
sins in the form of dubious activities he engaged in, while in CoS, of
persecuting others mercilessly and illegally (even he admits he
committed assault, beating underlings, just like Miscavige).
If the true facts of his tenure in the cult were all made known, I
wonder how long the list might be of prosecutable offenses?
Judging from Gerry Armstrong's story at least, it sounds like Marty is
doing little, if anything, to try to make amends for wrongs he
committed against CoS critics.
He makes no apology to the individual victim. In the case of Gerry, a
long-time fair game target of Marty's, Marty only insults and
ridicules his victim.
Many ex-Scientologists seem to deserve much admiration and sympathy.
Marty is not among them, in my view.
Poetic (& actual) justice might be Marty & Miscavige reunited in jail,
cellmates serving sentences as lengthy as their own long careers of
abusing and persecuting people!
Dennis L Erlich
>He makes no apology to the individual victim. In the case of Gerry, a
>long-time fair game target of Marty's, Marty only insults and
>ridicules his victim.
We deserved it. He was protecting the cult from us.
>Many ex-Scientologists seem to deserve much admiration and sympathy.
>Marty is not among them, in my view.
Nor in mine.
D
---------------------
"I'm not a superman
or Mister Wonderful, because
I'm the fool I never
fool I never thought I was." - M Knopfler
Android Cat
news:aa472f98-9e2d-46b7...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Just 'cause Marty's out, hardly means he's now absolved of all his
> sins in the form of dubious activities he engaged in, while in CoS, of
> persecuting others mercilessly and illegally (even he admits he
> committed assault, beating underlings, just like Miscavige).
> If the true facts of his tenure in the cult were all made known, I
> wonder how long the list might be of prosecutable offenses?
> Judging from Gerry Armstrong's story at least, it sounds like Marty is
> doing little, if anything, to try to make amends for wrongs he
> committed against CoS critics.
> He makes no apology to the individual victim. In the case of Gerry, a
> long-time fair game target of Marty's, Marty only insults and
> ridicules his victim.
> Many ex-Scientologists seem to deserve much admiration and sympathy.
> Marty is not among them, in my view.
>
> Poetic (& actual) justice might be Marty & Miscavige reunited in jail,
> cellmates serving sentences as lengthy as their own long careers of
> abusing and persecuting people!
I think that he's kind of frozen in his attitude towards what happened when
he was in: The anti-Scientology lawyers are still ambulance-chasers, Gerry
Armstrong is still an enemy of Scientology and enemies deserve what they
got. Critics, especially ex-members, are the "far left".
There's no real admission of guilt, just that he was doing Davey's orders
and that it wasn't doing the Tech properly as Hubbard said. I don't think
that he's really said even a simple "I'm sorry to the people I hurt while I
was in, I hope that you can forgive me."
I wonder if he's really opened up with Rinder about beating on him, or if
it's just the same dysfunctional coping as was going on inside Scientology
in order to keep working together afterwards.
Perhaps he's avoiding re-examining anything like that because then he's have
to face that either he was [a] suffering from extreme mind-fuck, [b] a
really shitty person, [c] he still thinks that everything he did was
justified to Keep Scientology Working. I don't care if Davey ordered every
single move he made and word that he spoke while inside, you have to make a
moral choice even if you're doing as you're told.
phil scott
it wouldnt cost much from each person farty targeted to fund a civil
suit
Phil scott,,, Id contribute
Bobb999
> saying that previous attempts generally failed because the lawyers were all
> ambulance-chasers.
>
> those failures happen!
>
> Scientology church faces new claims of harassment
> December 22, 1988, Stephen Koff, St. Petersburg Times
>
> /===
> Although it has a large presence in Pinellas County, Scientology keeps its
> business headquarters in California, and it was there that top
> Scientologists and lawyers gathered to talk about O'Reilly, the lawyer who
> was causing them trouble.
>
> Joseph Yanny, 38, was one of those lawyers. He has since fallen out with the
> church, but at the time, he was one of Scientology's top lawyers. Yanny
> began representing Scientology in trademark matters in 1983. His other
> clients include Corona Beer and the rock group Grateful Dead. By 1985, Yanny
> was ``closely involved in the formulation of legal strategy,`` according to
> court documents filed by Scientologists.
>
......................................................................................................................
D. Erlich said re. Marty's mindset toward critics & his own fair
gaming: "We deserved it. He was protecting the cult from us."
& Android Cat said:
"I think that he's kind of frozen in his attitude towards what
happened when
he was in: The anti-Scientology lawyers are still ambulance-chasers,
Gerry
Armstrong is still an enemy of Scientology and enemies deserve what
they
got. Critics, especially ex-members, are the 'far left'. "
-If Marty Rathburn's Scientology mindset hasn't changed much or at
all, one wonders what might happen if Miscavige eventually gets
ousted.
I believe Dave "small-man-syndrome-gone-berzerk" Miscavige is quoted
as saying he suspects Marty's now plotting to take over CoS, to
replace him as leader.
Miscavige may have a paranoid streak, seeing SPs all around him - but
he just might be right about Marty!
How would a CoS run by Marty be different than the CoS under Dave?
Well, perhaps member-on-member physical assaults would cease, but I
wonder if Marty would make any radical, needed changes such as
canceling all disconnection and fair game orders?
As far as I know, he has not demonstrated repentance or even regret
re. his own questionable activities while in the CoS, except for
beating on people under him. He made a few "sorry" noises about that.
I suspect a CoS run by the L.Ron-idolizing Marty wouldn't be a whole
lot different than the CoS under Dave, with entrenched abuses
continuing. Afterall, they were originally instituted by "infallible"
"Source", LRH. Who'd dare tamper?