"Los Desaparecidos" of Scientology
LawrieW
it is need of reform, I would put aside the sci-fi aspects and the cases of
financial rip-off. For me, from bitter personal experience, the damage done by
this church goes right back to the fundamental reaction people sometimes have
when you first mention Scientology to them, "don't they break, up families?"
Sadly, that first response is the correct one, "yes they Do."
Scientology has its own "Los Desaparecidos". The disapeared ones it creates
with its policies of disconnection.
The question I ask, is does the church realize fully the pain and cruelty they
inflict with this unusual policy? You have read about the Woodcrafts recently
on ARS. I am a single father and I have my two daughters Astra and Zoe and my
grandaughter Kate living with me. They now have no contact with their mother,
Lesley, grandmother Daphne Farrow, or their brother Matthew, who are all Sea
Org members. My two daughters are both very good girls, as of course any parent
would say They did enjoy loving relationships with these family members until
they fell foul of official Church policies. After telling the traumatic stories
of their experiences in the Sea organization (paramilitary branch of the Church
of Scientology) to the San Francisco Chronicle, these three family members:
Lesley, Daphne and Matthew refuse any further contact with Astra and Zoe. This
is clearly following the written policies of Hubbard, that anyone who speaks to
the press in a critical about Scientology, is an absolute enemy.
The fact is, Astra and Zoe felt complelled to tell their story, not in a
destructive way, but as a warning to others, and in an attempt to force reform
on Scientology. It is very painful for me to see two young girls who have lost
total contact with their mother. She won't return calls, not a Christmas card,
nothing. I wonder about how long this state will last. What if one of my
daughters has an accident or an illness, what will their mother do? Their
grandmother is approaching 80 years old, will they even be notified when she
dies?
From the viewpoint of my ex-wife Lesley, I am absolutely sure that she is going
through mental anquish having no contact with her two daughters and her only
grandaughter. She must miss them, and yet there is no foreseeable resolution in
sight, as Sea Org. members must follow the policies of Hubbard and remain
disconected from anyone who is perceived as having attacked scientology. Now,
my daughters would not necessarily try to persuade their mother to leave the
Sea Org., or unload their opinions of Scientology on her. They would just like
to say "Hi mom, how are you?" once in a while. I do not think the executives of
Scientology realize the agony they put people through with this policy. I beg
them to consider reform and I think they would be held in much higher regard by
the public if they did.
I can of several scenarios where families have been split up, and this is
perceived by the public as constituting mental cruelty. (And of course by Human
rights advocates such as Amnesty Intertnational). I think of East and West
Germany before the collapse of Communism where families would be split by a
border of barbed wire and land mines. Also there is North and South Korea, and
only recently, families were reunited for a short period, only to be split up
and returned back to the North and South. I also think of Argentina in the
eighties, when you had the instance of "Los Desaparecidos" (the disapeared
ones). Families would endure years of agony over the disapearance of their
loved ones, and probably never heard what fate ultimately awaited them.
My point is, most religions cherish and wish to strenghten the concept of
family. For a religion to actually dismantle a family is unthinkable. I know
other friends who are in a similar situation. A man, who's name I won't
mention, who has no contact with his 19 year old son. You should see the look
of pain on his face when the subject is broached. Many Scientologist are
terrified of this policy, and keep quiet about their critcisms and their
questions, because they know that at the drop of a hat, they will no longer be
able to speak to their brother or mother or friend.
So Scientology, I ask you this: respect people's 1st amendment rights and
listen to them. Realize that other large organizations are criticised and that
they are able to reform and may end up better for it. Other organization that
have split up families have been harsh and cruel military dictatorships. They
have enjoyed a reign of terror for a few years and have invariably perished.
And finally, let my daughters speak to their mother.
arnie lerma
your posting has been webbed at http://www.lermanet.com/persecution/
thank you putting this situation into such touching words
Arnie Lerma
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's
http://www.lermanet.com - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
Poopsy Charmicheal
This seems like a different group than the one we joined. If we knew when we
began this path that the lives we were building on a foundation of
Scientology could someday be taken away from us because of our heartfelt
opinions, or from taking actions we deeply believed in for the good of all,
then we never would have built these lives.
We became Scientologists because we believed in fighting for the truth. We
staked our lives on creating spiritual freedom for man. We learned to value
granting beingness as the highest virtue. And we swore to reinstate the
inalienable rights that no agency less than God had the right to set aside.
But life changed as we valued Scientology more. We saw instances where our
attachments were threatened. We saw the goldenrods written on others,
hanging in the hallway after course, and we began to fear our own exile. So
we learned to behave in a way that didn't question, that looked the other
way when things didn't go like we thought we believed.
And slowly we became cowards.
Love,
Poopsy
"LawrieW" <law...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010329201155...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
Warrior
In article <20010329201155...@ng-fk1.aol.com>, law...@aol.com
says...
>
>If I were to cut to the chase about scientology, and try to explain why I think
>it is need of reform, I would put aside the sci-fi aspects and the cases of
>financial rip-off. For me, from bitter personal experience, the damage done by
>this church goes right back to the fundamental reaction people sometimes have
>when you first mention Scientology to them: "Don't they break up families?"
>Sadly, that first response is the correct one: "Yes, they do." Scientology has
>its own "Los Desaparecidos". The disapeared ones it creates with its policies
>of disconnection.
I know this so well. It has been six and a half years since I've seen my
second child. The last time I saw him he was eleven years old. And it has
been almost four years since I've seen my oldest son. I don't even know where
either of them are any more.
>The question I ask, is does the church realize fully the pain and cruelty they
>inflict with this unusual policy?
I think the cult's leaders do realize the pain and cruelty they create with
their disconnection policy, and I believe they don't care about us because
we are "out-ethics SPs" in their minds. The cult's leaders believe that
their actions are "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics".
>You have read about the Woodcrafts recently on ARS. I am a single father and
>I have my two daughters Astra and Zoe and my grandaughter Kate living with me.
>They now have no contact with their mother, Lesley, grandmother Daphne Farrow,
>or their brother Matthew, who are all Sea Org members. My two daughters are
>both very good girls, as of course any parent would say. They did enjoy loving
>relationships with these family members until they fell foul of official Church
>policies. After telling the traumatic stories of their experiences in the Sea
>organization (paramilitary branch of the Church of Scientology) to the San
>Francisco Chronicle, these three family members: Lesley, Daphne and Matthew
>refuse any further contact with Astra and Zoe. This is clearly following the
>written policies of Hubbard, that anyone who speaks to the press in a critical
>[way] about Scientology, is an absolute enemy.
Yes, it is clear that we are "enemies". And how odd this is, that we
should be considered such, considering that the truth sets people free.
>The fact is, Astra and Zoe felt complelled to tell their story, not in a
>destructive way, but as a warning to others, and in an attempt to force reform
>on Scientology. It is very painful for me to see two young girls who have lost
>total contact with their mother. She won't return calls, not a Christmas card,
>nothing. I wonder about how long this state will last. What if one of my
>daughters has an accident or an illness, what will their mother do? Their
>grandmother is approaching 80 years old; will they even be notified when she
>dies?
Most likely they will learn long after any possibility exists for them to
make arrangements to attend the funeral.
>From the viewpoint of my ex-wife Lesley, I am absolutely sure that she is going
>through mental anquish having no contact with her two daughters and her only
>grandaughter. She must miss them, and yet there is no foreseeable resolution
>in sight, as Sea Org. members must follow the policies of Hubbard and remain
>disconected from anyone who is perceived as having attacked scientology. Now,
>my daughters would not necessarily try to persuade their mother to leave the
>Sea Org., or unload their opinions of Scientology on her. They would just like
>to say "Hi mom, how are you?" once in a while. I do not think the executives
>of Scientology realize the agony they put people through with this policy. I
>beg them to consider reform and I think they would be held in much higher
>regard by the public if they did.
I agree. But the "low toned" leaders of Scientology will most likely
continue to robotically follow Hubbard's policies. How can they do
otherwise?
>I can [think] of several scenarios where families have been split up, and
>this is perceived by the public as constituting mental cruelty. (And of
>course by Human rights advocates such as Amnesty Intertnational). I think
>of East and West Germany before the collapse of Communism where families
>would be split by a border of barbed wire and land mines. Also there is
>North and South Korea, and only recently, families were reunited for a
>short period, only to be split up and returned back to the North and South.
>I also think of Argentina in the eighties, when you had the instance of
>"Los Desaparecidos" (the disapeared ones). Families would endure years of
>agony over the disapearance of their loved ones, and probably never heard
>what fate ultimately awaited them.
I know many ex-Scientologists who suffer the same situation as your family
suffers.
The fact that the Latch family supports the Scientology cult saddens me.
That anyone supports the cult is sad.
>My point is, most religions cherish and wish to strenghten the concept of
>family. For a religion to actually dismantle a family is unthinkable.
The Scientology cult is a business masquerading as a religion. For the
cult members to do other than what Hubbard ("source") said is unthinkable
to them. To do otherwise would be to make them "squirrels", and then
_they_ too would be subject to the "fair game" policy.
>I know other friends who are in a similar situation. A man, who's name I
>won't mention, who has no contact with his 19 year old son. You should see
>the look of pain on his face when the subject is broached. Many Scientologist
>are terrified of this policy, and keep quiet about their critcisms and their
>questions, because they know that at the drop of a hat, they will no longer
>be able to speak to their brother or mother or friend.
I know a few in this situation myself. It keeps some individuals I know
from speaking out for fear they will suffer a completely broken family
relationship.
>So Scientology, I ask you this: respect people's 1st amendment rights and
>listen to them. Realize that other large organizations are criticised and that
>they are able to reform and may end up better for it. Other organization that
>have split up families have been harsh and cruel military dictatorships. They
>have enjoyed a reign of terror for a few years and have invariably perished.
>And finally, let my daughters speak to their mother.
I say speak the truth far and wide across the world. Dry up the pool of
potential cult victims by informing everyone you know about the evil of
Scientology. Educate. Inform.
Thanks for speaking out, Lawrence. My hat is off to you.
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
See http://warrior.offlines.org/
ptsc
>The question I ask, is does the church realize fully the pain and cruelty they
>inflict with this unusual policy? You have read about the Woodcrafts recently
>on ARS. I am a single father and I have my two daughters Astra and Zoe and my
>grandaughter Kate living with me. They now have no contact with their mother,
>Lesley, grandmother Daphne Farrow, or their brother Matthew, who are all Sea
Any relation to these Farrows? They are all declared SPs.
FARROW, JEFFERY KIM
FARROW, LESLIE ANNE
FARROW, MARY JANE
There is reason to think that Jeffery Farrow is no longer a declared SP.
James Farrow was "Highly Commended" as a "Boy Scout" in an issue FLB ED
1521 of 2 Feb 1998. Houston and Susan Farrow were "Commended" in the same
issue.
Blake Farrow is an IAS Patron
8/8/95 BLAKE FARROW IMPACT ISS. 52 1994 0
So is Daphne Farrow.
9/19/94 DAPHNE H. FARROW IMPACT ISS 53 1994 0 PATRON
Are these Farrows related to each other, or for that matter, to Mia Farrow?
(It's a pretty common name.)
Lesley Woodcraft is listed (misspelled) in the Lisa McPherson babywatch logs.
"Lesly Woodcraft
Was with Lisa for 1 night, two weeks ago on 24 November. She said that
Lisa was extremely aggitated and moved around the room a lot. She got
aggitated a couple of times while Lesly was there and slapped Janis
Johnson several times through out the night. She did not sleep that
night. She was very non-coherent and would chatter continuously while
she was there. She also spent a lot of time in the bathroom turning the
water on and off and banging the shower hose around. She then got
herself drenched and sprayed water all over the room. Floor got wet. At
this point once Joan arrived Lesly went out to get dry clothes for
Lisa."
>Org members. My two daughters are both very good girls, as of course any parent
>would say They did enjoy loving relationships with these family members until
>they fell foul of official Church policies. After telling the traumatic stories
>of their experiences in the Sea organization (paramilitary branch of the Church
>of Scientology) to the San Francisco Chronicle, these three family members:
>Lesley, Daphne and Matthew refuse any further contact with Astra and Zoe. This
>is clearly following the written policies of Hubbard, that anyone who speaks to
>the press in a critical about Scientology, is an absolute enemy.
>The fact is, Astra and Zoe felt complelled to tell their story, not in a
>destructive way, but as a warning to others, and in an attempt to force reform
>on Scientology. It is very painful for me to see two young girls who have lost
>total contact with their mother. She won't return calls, not a Christmas card,
>nothing. I wonder about how long this state will last. What if one of my
>daughters has an accident or an illness, what will their mother do? Their
>grandmother is approaching 80 years old, will they even be notified when she
>dies?
When did she cease contact? Are they hiding her as a potential witness to the
Lisa McPherson babywatch? That would be possibly explosive information that
would ensure that they would keep you as far away from her as possible, in
terror of the possibility of her becoming a hostile witness if she goes "PTS"
to the truth.
>From the viewpoint of my ex-wife Lesley, I am absolutely sure that she is going
>through mental anquish having no contact with her two daughters and her only
>grandaughter. She must miss them, and yet there is no foreseeable resolution in
>sight, as Sea Org. members must follow the policies of Hubbard and remain
>disconected from anyone who is perceived as having attacked scientology. Now,
>my daughters would not necessarily try to persuade their mother to leave the
>Sea Org., or unload their opinions of Scientology on her. They would just like
>to say "Hi mom, how are you?" once in a while. I do not think the executives of
>Scientology realize the agony they put people through with this policy. I beg
>them to consider reform and I think they would be held in much higher regard by
>the public if they did.
They won't, and they don't care.
They spit on the public. The public is just wogs to them.
ptsc
A Concerned Scientologist
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, "Poopsy Charmicheal" <poo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I wholeheartedly agree.
>
>This seems like a different group than the one we joined. If we knew when we
>began this path that the lives we were building on a foundation of
>Scientology could someday be taken away from us because of our heartfelt
>opinions, or from taking actions we deeply believed in for the good of all,
>then we never would have built these lives.
>
>We became Scientologists because we believed in fighting for the truth. We
>staked our lives on creating spiritual freedom for man. We learned to value
>granting beingness as the highest virtue. And we swore to reinstate the
>inalienable rights that no agency less than God had the right to set aside.
>
>But life changed as we valued Scientology more. We saw instances where our
>attachments were threatened. We saw the goldenrods written on others,
>hanging in the hallway after course, and we began to fear our own exile. So
>we learned to behave in a way that didn't question, that looked the other
>way when things didn't go like we thought we believed.
>
>And slowly we became cowards.
>
>Love,
>
>Poopsy
You have also written that you would like to see the C of S reformed. What
reforms would you like to see? I would be grateful if you could list these
specifically please.
A Concerned Scientologist
Poopsy Charmicheal
"A Concerned Scientologist" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in
message news:D7T7YVME36980.7695949074@frog.nyarlatheotep.org...
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, "Poopsy Charmicheal" <poo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I wholeheartedly agree.
> >
> >
>
> You have also written that you would like to see the C of S reformed.
What
> reforms would you like to see? I would be grateful if you could list
these
> specifically please.
>
> A Concerned Scientologist
>
I, too, would like to see the practice of disconnection from family
abolished, per the "Creating Antagonism" HCOB.
I would like to see the pressure to use credit and the practice of going
into debt for services abolished, per the LRH Finance Series.
I would like to see the pricing formula that LRH implemented for auditing
and training intensives put back into practice per HCOPL "Auditing
Dissemination and Programmes" (24 Sept 1964, I think)
I would like to see International Management admit to a frikking mistake
every once in a while, and correct themselves, and become more enlightened
and responsible. Specifically I would like to see acknowledgments made in
the Bonnie Woods case, the Lisa McPherson case, and others where our own
policies and ideals where absent in the actions that were taken.
I'd like to see Greg and Debra Barnes, and Mike and Virginia McClaughry
reinstated to good standing.
And I would like to see actual time and money spent on creating and
maintaining the justice bodies that LRH set up for us to use in resolving
issues, per the definition of "Justice": "equity between the group and the
individual" and many other ethics and justice pls.
These are just some of the reforms that I personally will do what I can to
get implemented in my Church.
Otherwise, it isn't my church at all, is it?
Love,
Poopsy
arnie lerma
From a copy of CST's bylaws... run by non-scientologist attornys
[ CST owns scientology ]
"The corporation has no members"
arnie lerma
>Love,
>
>Poopsy
Dave Bird
<law...@aol.com> writes:
>I can of several scenarios where families have been split up, and this is
>perceived by the public as constituting mental cruelty. (And of course by Human
>rights advocates such as Amnesty Intertnational). I think of East and West
>Germany before the collapse of Communism where families would be split by a
>border of barbed wire and land mines.
It is very sad when a group splits up families -- it is an unethical
act -- you might want to punch them on the nose for it. But it is
very difficult for the law to intervene, if they are merely persuaded
to cease contact (if contacted is prevented by force that is a
different matter). I don't know what can be done about it....
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |<a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"></a>_____________|/_______| L
www.xemu.demon.co.uk 2B0D 5195 337B A3E6 DDAC BD38 7F2F FD8E 7391 F44F
arnie lerma
wrote:
>In article<20010329201155...@ng-fk1.aol.com>, LawrieW
><law...@aol.com> writes:
>>I can of several scenarios where families have been split up, and this is
>>perceived by the public as constituting mental cruelty. (And of course by Human
>>rights advocates such as Amnesty Intertnational). I think of East and West
>>Germany before the collapse of Communism where families would be split by a
>>border of barbed wire and land mines.
>
> It is very sad when a group splits up families -- it is an unethical
> act -- you might want to punch them on the nose for it. But it is
> very difficult for the law to intervene, if they are merely persuaded
> to cease contact (if contacted is prevented by force that is a
> different matter). I don't know what can be done about it....
DEMAND that this sort of conduct not be condoned by the
United States Internal Revenue Service as "Charitable
non-profit activity -
Revoke Charitable Statuts
of Domestic Terrorist Groups
NOW!
> |~/ |~/
>~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
>P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
>O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
>O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
>L |<a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"></a>_____________|/_______| L
>www.xemu.demon.co.uk 2B0D 5195 337B A3E6 DDAC BD38 7F2F FD8E 7391 F44F
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"Poopsy Charmicheal" <poo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cL5x6.114834$Ch.15...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
I just wanna say you sound like a terrific person, Poopsy, and I
hope someday we can get to know each other. Claire (Fluffygirl) is my
friend, and can vouch for me. I don't bite Scn'ists, and do enjoy
dialogue, except with the OSA sockpuppets, whom I like to play with
from time to time.
Email me if you want. I don't betray confidences, either.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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Poopsy Charmicheal
"Starshadow" <starsh...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Epnx6.653873$U46.20...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Poopsy Charmicheal" <poo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cL5x6.114834$Ch.15...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> >
>
> I just wanna say you sound like a terrific person, Poopsy, and I
> hope someday we can get to know each other. Claire (Fluffygirl) is my
> friend, and can vouch for me. I don't bite Scn'ists, and do enjoy
> dialogue, except with the OSA sockpuppets, whom I like to play with
> from time to time.
>
> Email me if you want. I don't betray confidences, either.
>
Thanks for the expression of love and kindness.
I am finding these in abundance here on ARS.
Is this like "love-bombing"? (: >)
Poopsy
Dave Bird
>On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 20:30:35 +0100, Dave Bird wrote:
>>In article<20010329201155...@ng-fk1.aol.com>, LawrieW:
>>>
>>>I can of several scenarios where families have been split up, and this is
>>>perceived by the public as constituting mental cruelty. (And of course by
>Human
>>>rights advocates such as Amnesty Intertnational). I think of East and West
>>>Germany before the collapse of Communism where families would be split by a
>>>border of barbed wire and land mines.
>>
>> It is very sad when a group splits up families -- it is an unethical
>> act -- you might want to punch them on the nose for it. But it is
>> very difficult for the law to intervene, if they are merely persuaded
>> to cease contact (if contacted is prevented by force that is a
>> different matter). I don't know what can be done about it....
>
> DEMAND that this sort of conduct not be condoned by the
>United States Internal Revenue Service as "Charitable
>non-profit activity -
> Revoke Charitable Statuts
>of Domestic Terrorist Groups
> NOW!
You are right: nonprofit status can be much more tightly restricted
to HARMLESS, NONPROFIT organisations WHICH ARE FOR THE PUBLIC BENEFIT.
"Harmless" would include "not carrying out, encouraging, or
concealing criminal acts (and removing any persons or policies
connected with such behaviour if it transgresses)" and
"not acting against the public good or good policy e.g. by
encouraging family members to abandon their families."
Hartley Patterson
> I would like to see International Management admit to a frikking mistake
> every once in a while, and correct themselves, and become more enlightened
> and responsible.
They can't. Really. If they did they would lose control and it would all
be over in a few months. Read your history books about totalitarian
organisations.
> Specifically I would like to see acknowledgments made in
> the Bonnie Woods case,
They apologised in open court and five minutes later handed out a
press release saying that they had only settled because Bonnie would have
no money to pay them when she lost in court. A journalist
present described this as 'bullshit'. They had thrown away thousands of
dollars of their parishioners money because no one had the guts to tell
DM they couldn't win this one.
> I'd like to see Greg and Debra Barnes, and Mike and Virginia McClaughry
> reinstated to good standing.
How could they be? They were traitors all along, concealing their crimes.
'Scientology isn't a right, it has to be earned'.
> Otherwise, it isn't my church at all, is it?
It never was your church. It belonged to Hubbard when he was alive, and
now belongs to no one but is controlled by Miscavige. To get control of
it you need to persuade enough scientologists to tell him and his
cronies to go. In Rumania it took just one person to start booing at a
public meeting and the whole regime collapsed.
--
"I think of my beautiful city in flames"
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
A medieval spreadsheet, enturbulating entheta and how to outrun
Thread. PGP ID: 0xC27CDDDC
STella
>> hope someday we can get to know each other. Claire (Fluffygirl) is my
>> friend, and can vouch for me. I don't bite Scn'ists, and do enjoy
>> dialogue, except with the OSA sockpuppets, whom I like to play with
>> from time to time.
>> Email me if you want. I don't betray confidences, either.
>Thanks for the expression of love and kindness.
>I am finding these in abundance here on ARS.
>Is this like "love-bombing"? (: >)
No, cuz if any of us need told we're fucking assholes, the very same
people who offer the love and kindness will throw in a dose of
_grandmotherly kindness_ and make sure we know it.
Never fear to hit a brother upon the head with the Tonka Truck of
honest disagreement!
STella
"As brothers fight ye!"
Tommy
>
> In article <Gfpx6.120686$Ch.15...@typhoon.we.rr.com>,
> Poopsy Charmicheal <poo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >"Starshadow" <starsh...@home.com> wrote in message
> >> I just wanna say you sound like a terrific person, Poopsy, and I
> >> hope someday we can get to know each other. Claire (Fluffygirl) is my
> >> friend, and can vouch for me. I don't bite Scn'ists, and do enjoy
> >> dialogue, except with the OSA sockpuppets, whom I like to play with
> >> from time to time.
Righto!
It's fun, and threaputic, too. And when they blow, we get to actually
talk to them and communicate.
Ask Tory.
>
> >> Email me if you want. I don't betray confidences, either.
>
> >Thanks for the expression of love and kindness.
>
> >I am finding these in abundance here on ARS.
>
> >Is this like "love-bombing"? (: >)
Not at all. When a real Scientologist comes on here and communicates
(like you and Claire or John), as opposed to $cientologists here on an
amends project, or a Dept.20 type here to postulate all the bad old
critics away, or a psych-spamming CCHR shill, most here communicate
back. This isn't love-bombing, it's the normal reaction of people when
they are spoken to and not spoken *at*.
>
> No, cuz if any of us need told we're fucking assholes, the very same
> people who offer the love and kindness will throw in a dose of
> _grandmotherly kindness_ and make sure we know it.
And how!
:-)
>
> Never fear to hit a brother upon the head with the Tonka Truck of
> honest disagreement!
Sig! Sig!
Welcome to the NG,Poopsy.
Tommy (fusiously rewriting "A boy names Sue" into "A critic named
Poopsy" but failing to come up with a rhyme for "Poopsy")
--
"The goal of the department [Department 20] is to bring the government
and hostile
philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the
goals of Scientology. This is done by a high level ability to control
and in its absence by a low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such
agencies. Control such agencies."
-- L. RON HUBBARD, Documentary, evidence in
Church of
Spiritual Technology vs. U.S.. November 22, 1989
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"Tommy" <Tommy_Sp**ges...@Xs.net> wrote in message
news:3AC705...@Xs.net...
> STella wrote:
> >
> > In article <Gfpx6.120686$Ch.15...@typhoon.we.rr.com>,
> > Poopsy Charmicheal <poo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >"Starshadow" <starsh...@home.com> wrote in message
> > >> I just wanna say you sound like a terrific person, Poopsy,
> > >> and I hope someday we can get to know each other. Claire
> > >> (Fluffygirl) is my friend, and can vouch for me. I don't bite
> > >> Scn'ists, and do enjoy dialogue, except with the OSA
> > >> sockpuppets, whom I like to play with from time to time.
>
>
> Righto!
> It's fun, and threaputic, too. And when they blow, we get to
> actually talk to them and communicate.
> Ask Tory.
>
>
> >
> > >> Email me if you want. I don't betray confidences, either.
> >
> > >Thanks for the expression of love and kindness.
> >
> > >I am finding these in abundance here on ARS.
> >
> > >Is this like "love-bombing"? (: >)
>
>
> Not at all. When a real Scientologist comes on here and
> communicates (like you and Claire or John), as opposed to
> $cientologists here on an amends project, or a Dept.20 type here to
> postulate all the bad old critics away, or a psych-spamming CCHR
> shill, most here communicate back. This isn't love-bombing, it's
> the normal reaction of people when they are spoken to and not
> spoken *at*.
>
I didn't get your original answer, Poopsy, but what Tommy said.
> > No, cuz if any of us need told we're fucking assholes, the very
> > same people who offer the love and kindness will throw in a dose
> > of _grandmotherly kindness_ and make sure we know it.
I think I'm in the Crone Dept. there...
> And how!
> :-)
>
> >
> > Never fear to hit a brother upon the head with the Tonka Truck of
> > honest disagreement!
>
I'm keepin' that one.
> Sig! Sig!
>
> Welcome to the NG,Poopsy.
>
> Tommy (fusiously rewriting "A boy names Sue" into "A critic named
> Poopsy" but failing to come up with a rhyme for "Poopsy")
>
How about "Hang on Poopsy, Poopsy hang on!"
To the tune of Hang on Sloopy, of course...
(No, you write it. I just come up with the ideas.)
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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Michael Reuss
>I wholeheartedly agree.
>This seems like a different group than the one we joined.
Poopsy, I've been reading your posts, and I'm sorry that you're forced
to be learning the things about your church that you appear to be
learning. I know this cannot be an easy and comfortable thing for you.
But if you really want to understand why this is happening, I think
you must now reject Scientology as an authority, and begin thinking of
your experiences in different terms.
While Scientology has certainly evolved over time, Hubbard's
reinvention of the word "ethics," and Hubbard's determination that he
alone (and now his followers) were the arbiters of suppression,
Scientology has been much this way.
You just didn't notice it going in. You got confused by all the glossy
brochures and the wonderful shore stories.
Maybe now you'll see it on your way out.
>We became Scientologists because we believed in fighting for the truth.
We've heard it all before.
You say you sincerely went out looking for the truth. But you didn't
find truth. What you found, was a scam, with plenty of unscientific,
patently false (yet profitable) shore stories to put in your face.
Scientology's lies have always been available, for any who were really
interested in the truth.
Maybe you weren't really as interested in the truth as you claim.
Maybe you were really more interested in feeling better about
yourself, or in gaining power? Only you can know this about yourself,
of course.
>We staked our lives on creating spiritual freedom for man.
But you never asked about the definition of spiritual freedom. Turns
out, all it meant was freedom to be a zealous, loyal Hubbardite, and
nothing else.
>We learned to value granting beingness as the highest virtue.
"Beingness" is a bogus word invented by Scientology. As best I can
tell, the phrase "granting beingness" implies that your highest virtue
would be something akin to "live and let live." But that's not the way
Scientologists really behave. A group that valued the idea of live
and let live, would not decide that it was the world's authority on
suppressive people, would not arbitrarily define people as enemies,
and would not set out to ruin them utterly.
So your highest value is yet another short story.
>And we swore to reinstate the
>inalienable rights that no agency less than God had the right to set aside.
Sure, this is true, so long as you also realize that, in Scientology
LRH( plus his agents or assigns) = God.
>But life changed as we valued Scientology more. We saw instances where our
>attachments were threatened. We saw the goldenrods written on others,
>hanging in the hallway after course, and we began to fear our own exile. So
>we learned to behave in a way that didn't question, that looked the other
>way when things didn't go like we thought we believed.
You were sucked into a psychological trap which bound you more and
more tightly to a group, with emotions and dependencies over which, to
outsiders, you claimed to be in control. Emotions such as fear and
humiliation. You drilled yourselves unwittingly to become numb to
prolonged exposure to these emotions.
Now the cognitive dissonance of years of lies are catching up.
>And slowly we became cowards.
And now the only question becomes, are you going to live the rest of
your life like this, or are you going to do something about it?
(and be sure to take documents with you if you blow)
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid