Arrest at Oakville Place Mall
Kymus
>A dozen
>police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
>were put at great risk of death or injury.
Is it possible that the biggest contributor to this risk you are complaining of
is the fugitive himself who set up the fugitive apprehension situation? Is
that person in any way responsible for a fugitive apprehension team being
called upon to put itself and others at risk, as you claim?
>The
>arrest could have been made in the stores: neither of us was wearing
>anything that would have concealed a weapon.
Then you must have been wearing a nearly transparent G-string/butt thong and
nothing else. Thatsa pretty spicy meata-balla to be parading around! But
maybe you don't have much knowledge of weapons concealment.
The moral of the story seems simple: if you want to be free of incompetent,
cowboy type arrest team dufuses, don't become a fugitive. Criticism of the
fugitive for setting up this whole business is, though, the one thing this
article can never be expected to discuss.
>"Scientology kidnapping" in Google turns up 1740 pages.
Yeah yeah. All of those pages posted by the most credible and reputable of
people, huh? If we are going to use page counts as a test of the credibility
of some proposition I suppose black people are just going to have to finally
face the cybertruth that those racists who like to spew nastiness in cyberspace
about them are very credible people indeed. The page count on google says so!
==
When a newbie asked "What is the name of scientology's secret books?"
ShyDavid (David Rice) replied "Mein Kamph".
Message-ID: <3bef3c24.6167606@localhost>
Another day, another a.r.s. post, same stupid bullshit as always.
==
Keith Henson
"An outrageous display. . . reckless and excessive use of force."
----Scientology critic Rob Clark
The Arrest, 2:30 p.m. May 28, 2001
My arrest (under the direction of Officer Bonenfant) was a textbook
case of an arrest made in the most dangerous way possible. A dozen
police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
were put at great risk of death or injury.
Gregg Hagglund's car was followed to a public place (Oakville Place
Mall, Oakville, Ontario) rather than being stopped before we got there
or on the way back home. We were followed on foot into the mall. The
arrest could have been made in the stores: neither of us was wearing
anything that would have concealed a weapon. We were followed out of
the mall. The arrest could have been made at the double doors. We
were allowed to get in Gregg's car, gaining access to (hypothetical)
weapons and allowed to start the car before the TRU team moved in.
Here is the situation just before the police moved in. You have an
excited (they always are in action) TRU team possibly inflamed by a
story of a hatemongering explosives expert. The two people they were
going to arrest are on edge because they have been followed for days
and are well aware of the history that Scientology operatives kidnap
people. And these people were permitted to *start the car*. Cars are
correctly considered deadly weapons. It is decidedly odd police
practice to allow the suspects about to be arrested access to a deadly
weapon.
Gregg was milliseconds from jamming the car in reverse and ramming his
way out based on his initial perception that the people who were
jumping out of a van behind the car were Scientology bounty hunters.
All he could see of the TRU team members in the mirror was blue jeans
and guns. If Gregg had broken the legs of the two officers right
behind his car or killed them he would have been justified on the
basis of a reasonable effort to prevent his houseguest from being
kidnapped by what he perceived as kidnappers. If the officers had in
turn shot Gregg as he backed toward them they too would have been
justified.
You could go up to about any level you want on the potential of this
operation to have hurt people, including officers losing legs from
being pinned against the unmarked police van behind Gregg's car,
spraying the food court of the mall with police semi automatic weapon
fire (less than 30 meters away, it was in the line of fire) and the
two of us being dead (the ideal outcome for Scientology).
Even with no resistance on our part, TRU operations like this are
dangerous. A few months later an officer in Calgary was killed when
his best friend jumped out of a van, tripped, and discharged a gun in
a training mission very similar to this operation.
Gregg has nightmares to this day about the ways this incident could
have turned out.
Immediately following my arrest, there were inconsistencies indicating
the Toronto officers had exaggerated the situation. The Halton police
were utterly mystified (after being told I was a dangerous explosives
expert) that the car was not being searched and, after hinting to
Bonenfant several times "When are we going to search the car?" started
asking *Gregg* what was in the car. (He told them, picket flyers and
a megaphone in a box they could see in the back seat and picket signs
in the trunk they never opened.)
Another indication that this level of force was unjustified was that
no precautions were taken such as having the bomb squad or
bomb-sniffing dogs present. I suspect that if the TRU had been told I
had been in the country 16 days (which is plenty of time for a
dedicated person to steal or even make explosives) they would have
insisted on these precautions, or perhaps researched the case
themselves and found TRU use to be entirely unjustified. (Gregg, for
example, is in police computers as a trusted person.) There may have
been an assumption that there would be an "unfortunate" arrest
incident and when it did not happen they were left without a backup
plan. Or as Bonenfant said to Gregg in a low voice, "No US citizen
will ever be granted refugee status," and they figured their odd
behavior would never be questioned.
All in all, this bears the unmistakable stench of a Scientology
operation--working through the Toronto officers putting the Toronto
and Halton police, the "suspects" and the public in a totally
unjustified high-risk situation. If (as I suspect) my arrest was
engineered by Scientology, it failed in its major objective, though
they got something since I did spend 11 days in jail--at considerable
cost to the government. But that is due to luck: Gregg didn't have
the car in gear and he recognized, as he was about to jam it into
reverse, that a woman with long blond hair who jumped out of another
van was a police officer and not an Scientology hired bounty hunter.
http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2001-06-07/news_spread.html.
Based on a simple immigration warrant with no unusual wording, this
arrest was carried out as if it been planned and executed by the
Toronto officers to place everyone--Gregg, the TRU, the public, and
me--at maximum risk. Why?
It is clear from the reports at the time and the immigration files
that Scientology was in close contact with Toronto officers Phil
Glavin and (first name?) Bonenfant for at least a week. These two
officers were also in contact with Riverside County (California)
Deputy DA Robert Schwarz. DDA Schwarz has a close relationship with
major Scientology lawyers, particularly former mafia lawyer Elliot
Abelson. (In fact, that relationship forms part of my appeal of the
case against me in Hemet, California.)
It is hard to believe these officers unquestioningly accepted
everything Scientology agents told them and failed to remember that
the Scientology corporation was criminally convicted for breach of the
public trust a few years ago in Canada. And what was the "breach of
public trust?" They were caught by accident long after infiltrating
and influencing law enforcement, including the Ontario Provincial
Police, the RCMP, the Attorney General *and* the Toronto police. A
sample of Canadian legal papers from these cases are webbed at
http://xenu.ca/court/index.html and http://xenu.ca/court/appeal.html
In assessing the risk taken in this arrest, it is important to know
that someone had been following Gregg almost every day and to know
that Scientology has been associated with a lot of kidnappings.
"Scientology kidnapping" in Google turns up 1740 pages. Gregg and I
had discussed Scientology bounty hunters and how to fight our way out
to foil capture by Scientology thugs. Gregg has a "bodyguard"
mentality. He is known for a long history of working security and
being a bodyguard for important guests at large science fiction
conventions.
I had posted on the Internet about bounty hunters and being followed
to the news group alt.religion.scientology May 19, 2001. The
following from that post is a transcript of an openly recorded
conversation while picketing in front of the Toronto Scientology
office between Keith Henson and scientologist Brian McPherson:
[. . .]
Keith: Well, we will have a chance for a Canadian tribunal to decide
whether I had a fair trial in Hemet or not, because they get to review
it.
Brian: Why would they review the case?
Keith: Because they have to. I am applying for refugee status
because my human rights have been violated. I am an escaped political
prisoner of conscience because of what was done to me in Hemet
California.
Brian: But the case was. . . . .OK
Keith: So that's my claim, see.
Brian: Does it mater what the case is?
Keith: People have come up here escaping murder convictions for
example.
Brian: Yeah.
Keith: And sometimes . . .the Bambi B. case . . . finally
embarrassed the US government so bad that they cut a deal to take her
back and run the case through the appeals court. I am generating an
international incident.
Brian: (laughs)
Keith: It is unavoidable, unless Scientology hires some bounty
hunters to take me back to California. And if they did *that* would
create an international incident. And they would look like complete
idiots because it was a misdemeanor, not a felony.
(Conversation about bail--OR--drifted into the Picard bill.99%--mind
manipulation--evolutionary psychology--hacker mentality--jargon file
millionaires in Scientology and how many Slatkin took the cleaner
religions--Zen Druids--Memes. Mind manipulation and how to
determination it. Aum killing people, Lisa McPherson, Jone Wood,
Ashlee Shaner, Golden Era, (*), DM in a casino, the deposition of DM,
and his public buggering rant.)
After about an hour of this, Gregg and I went off for some lunch, but
decided to just go home before the traffic got bad. We had a car
follow us most of the way back.
[The tape is available on request]
The report (by Gregg and Keith) started with:
Keith Henson and I drove into downtown Toronto so that Keith could
attend some to some business at Mamann and Associates.
[My immigration lawyers.]
Scientology has a special unit in Los Angeles that reads everything
posted to this news group on the Internet and reports to the Office of
Special Affairs (OSA), the department in charge of intelligence,
extortion, blackmail, and terrorizing those who oppose the cult's
abuses. So on May 19, 2001 Scientology's OSA unit knew Gregg and I
were concerned about bounty hunters and being followed. They knew on
May 17 I had retained Mamann and Associates. These facts were likely
shared with the Toronto officers (there should be records).
OSA had investigated Gregg's medical records (bragged about it to him
on a picket) and knew he was taking an anti depressant drug.
Scientology (due to their institutional insanity about "psych drugs")
would assume that anyone taking drugs would act crazy in a stress
situation. The Toronto officer's answers to interrogatories in the
currently ongoing investigation may describe how much information of
this kind was transferred in contacts the officers had with
Scientology OSA agents such as Al Buttnor.
One of the Toronto officers told a pointless story to Gregg's neighbor
earlier the day I was arrested about my being wanted in the States on
"explosives charges." Telling a neighbor that a guest next door is
wanted on serious charges when you are on a stakeout is an obvious
violation of police practice, but it may indicate the level of stress
put on the Toronto officers by OSA and how much they in turn had
pumped up the TRU members about how dangerous the person was they were
going to arrest. (Keresteci Affidavit).
The TRU was also told I had come into the country the morning of May
28, apparently to create a sense of urgency. From Halton's Arrest
Report, Toronto officer Glavin the complainant:
"Susp fled to Canada earlier this AM to avoid sentencing in Calf, USA
for hate crimes & threats against Church of Scientology. Deemed high
risk due to explosives history. Comp located in Oakville by TO
Fugitive Detectives and surveilled to Mall. Arrested by HRPS and
returned to Toronto."
This is hard to blame on OSA. I had been in Canada 16 days, and the
Toronto officers knew it. One of them had talked to Robert Schwarz
the previous week. They could not have talked to him the day of the
arrest because it was a US holiday (Memorial Day).
The real urgency may have been an appointment I had with my lawyer the
next day to file a refugee claim. Immediately after the arrest,
Bonenfant made comments in a very low voice to Gregg indicating he
knew of the appointment with my immigration lawyer in downtown Toronto
the next day. If he did, the Halton police were put at risk for no
reason at all, because Bonenfant knew he could have arrested me using
Toronto police less than 24 hours later in my lawyer's office. It
would have been easy to find out since my immigration lawyer's name
had been mentioned several times on the Internet and the receptionist
certainly would have given the appointment time to the police.
There was one other odd thing that should be mentioned. Glavin and
Bonenfant came to the first immigration hearing. There they
successfully argued that I should be held another seven days because
they stated there was a report about an "incident" that might indicate
I was dangerous on a sergeant's desk and the sergeant would not be
back from vacation for a few days. I know what the 'incident' was
because it was the only time police attended any event involving me.
A report was written about this picket on May 21 (attached) and posted
to the a.r.s news group. I was one of seven people peacefully
picketing the Scientology organization in Toronto. There were no
interactions with the Scientologists that day. None of us were even
asked for ID that day.
It is an interesting question how these officers knew of this report
and not know the actual contents, which were clearly innocuous.
Given the background and what occurred, it is believable that OSA once
again used law-enforcement officials to carry out an operation against
their "enemies" that was meant to endanger their lives. In this case,
it also endangered not only the Toronto and Halton police but also the
public at the Oakville Place Mall. Scientology's "religious practice"
of depreciating the value of human life has now extended to a reckless
abuse of public officials that could have led to loss of life among
bystanders including children.
The least complicated analysis of this arrest would assume
incompetence of the Toronto officers. With Scientology's OSA
involved, there are good reasons to look further.
#######################
Appendix/Background
When analyzing Scientology operations against critics the question is:
Are you paranoid *enough*?
Scientology is a confidence operation that uses human psychological
vulnerabilities to separate people from their money and to obtain
political power. Its crime, dirty tricks & intimidation wing, the
Office of Special Affairs, deploys anyone they can use as weapons
against "enemies." (Time Magazine in 1991 used the words "classically
terroristic." The US Supreme Court ultimately upheld the statement
but it cost Time $10 million in legal fees.)
A Scientology security agent in court testimony described me as an
enemy early in 2001 (Declaration of Frank Oliver--attached). This is
what Scientologists are to do to enemies:
[Fair use quote]
ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or
injured by any means by any Scientologist without any
discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued
or lied to or destroyed.
LRH:jp L. RON HUBBARD
Copyright (c) 1967 Founder
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
http://www.planetkc.com/sloth/sci/Fair_game_ord.html
This was written in 1967, but Scientology documents by Hubbard a few
decades old are obeyed by Scientologists to no less an extent than
much older documents are obeyed by members of other religions.
To get into the proper mental state for analysis and informed
speculation about the arrest on May 28, 2001 at the Oakville Place
Mall you may need a background beyond what I can provide and attach
here. Checking the links will only take a few minutes but it will
take a few hours on a computer to follow and read all the Web pointers
provided.
In 1995 a Scientology agent by the name of Linda Woolard met
Scientology critic (an "enemy," in their terms) Tom Klemesrud in a bar
and induced him to take her to his apartment on the pretext she was an
IRS agent. (She probably *was* an agent, one of the internal IRS
agents Scientology was delegated to create under the IRS/Scientology
truce agreement of October 1993.)
Tom is certain his drink was drugged and the drug was probably the
cult's favorite, chloral hydrate. Ms Woolard did not use enough,
however, and Tom spoiled the operation by calling the police after he
discover her spreading blood all over his bathroom and bedroom. If
this was not an act of terrorism, I don't know what it would be
called. (The police copy of the 911 recording could not be
located--common for Scientology cases--but a backup tape from the fire
department was found. The transcript is posted on the Internet.)
Tom was arrested by the police who came in response to his call to
911, for being "drunk" (drugged) in his house and spent the night in
jail based on false accusations of threats by Ms Woolard. Ms Woolard
vanished after the police arrived. The details of this bizarre story
are on the Internet:
http://www.planetkc.com/sloth/sci/Fair_game_ord.html
Ms Woolard even left her address book and had tried to make calls to a
private detective, Gene Ingram. Ingram (a former police officer
kicked out of the Los Angeles Police Department) is paid over $700,000
a year by Scientology for his work intimidating people and running
operations such as the one against Tom Klemesrud.
There was no question this was a Scientology operation, but the goal
of the operation was not clear for a number of years. About a year
ago a document that had been made up in advance of the operation (and
on the assumption it would work as planned) surfaced in police files
in Finland. The document stated that Tom was in jail on suspicion of
murder--something that didn't happen. The (now obvious) goal of the
operation was to get Tom held indefinitely in jail on murder charges
while the police tried to find a body to go with the pints of blood
all over Tom's apartment.
Tom was not even the primary target of this operation. The entire
complicated operation was done with the object of getting Dennis
Erlich, a former high-level Scientologist, and subscriber to Tom's
Internet service, support.com, off the net. Dennis had earned the ire
of Scientology by openly talking about their "secrets," particularly
the Xenu story and Scientology's illegal practice of medicine using
"emeters."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/rnewman/erlich/home.html.
Next, consider the January 2000 case against Mark Bunker in Chicago.
Two off duty Chicago police working for Scientology arrested Mark for
trespassing (on a public sidewalk) while he was taping two former
members trying to get a refund. It is thought the police stole the
tape from his camera after arresting him, then made false statements.
Mark went to trial on the testimony of the police, disputed by
witnesses. The witnesses were believed over the police, and a jury
acquitted Mark after a very short deliberation. How much this
operation cost Scientology is not known. It was certainly expensive
for Mark Bunker's employer and the State of Illinois.
http://www.lisatrust.net/legal/bunker/opening.html
There is a record in the case of how much Scientology was willing to
spend on another enemy, Jesse Prince. Jesse worked for the Lisa
McPherson Trust, same as Mark Bunker. In an attempt to entrap Jesse
Prince on marijuana charges several private detectives were paid
between $200,000 and $300,000. (An embarrassed DA dropped the charges
after a hung jury.)
http://www.lisatrust.net/Media/SPTimes/SPT5-26-01.html and
http://www.sptimes.com/News/052601/news_pf/Opinion/Church_behavior.shtml
Scientology has spent by admission in court (September 13, 2000) $2
million dollars on trying to destroy me. Scientology is widely
believed to have corrupted the DA and the judge in the case reported
about at http://www.operatingthetan.com.
Scientology has spent an estimated $500,000 on trying to shut up Gregg
Hagglund. They also extorted his brother (a senior government
official) and sister. To say Scientology agents hate Gregg would be
an understatement. He and a few other critics successfully opposed
Scientology's attempt to gain charity status in Canada. Obtaining
charity status (or tax-exempt status in the States) has recently been
shown to be a primary purpose of the apex Scientology corporation,
CSI. http://www.nots.org/cst.htm
Scientology has no concern about endangering people's lives.
Scientology leader David Miscavige quipped, "She died. People die"
about Lisa McPherson's cockroach ridden death in their "care." One
outsider (Ashlee Shaner) and one member (Stacy Moxon) died in early
2000 as a direct result of a total lack of concern for the welfare of
people.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://www.operatingthetan.com/shaner-charges.txt
http://www.rickross.com/reference/Scientology/scien243.html
These are only sample URLs. Search Google on Lisa McPherson, Ashlee
Shaner and Stacy Moxon for more details about these deaths and many
others.
Scientology corrupts law enforcement and the courts to the extent they
can. Besides Mark Bunker, there are numerous examples on the web, see
http://www.xenutv.com/. The police in Clearwater, Florida have been
paid over $100,000 by the cult for guard duty. This has had the
effect that assaults even with intent to kill (Joe Neal attacking Bob
Minton) were brushed off as not worth investigating.
http://www.bobminton.org/mintonln.htm
Scientology members faked a hit and run accident to frame Gabe Cazares
in Washington, DC.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-13.html
There is the famous case of Paulette Cooper, a New York author, whom
Scientology framed by mailing themselves bomb threats. They enlisted
the FBI in the operation, which was not exposed until the FBI raided
Scientology in 1977 and the plans were found among the 30,000
documents seized (which included OPP personal files).
http://www.lermanet.com/latimes/la90-1c.html
There are several other similar operations known. It should be noted
that with the possible and long delayed exception of the case where
Scientology was charged with "simulation of a felony"
http://www.raids.org/heberm2.htm against Pedro Lerma in Spain,
Scientology has gotten away with all these attacks on enemies using
law enforcement. The cult's method is illustrated by the Lisa
McPherson case.
In that case, the police recommended three homicide charges after a
three-year investigation made difficult at every turn by Scientology.
The DA reduced the charges to two felonies, criminal neglect and
practicing medicine without a license, filed against the corporation.
Scientology could have paid a fine of under $12,000 and been done with
it. Instead they spent several million on legal fees, private
investigators and expert witnesses.
"On June 12, 2000 the criminal charges were dropped against
Scientology because (so the prosecutor claims) the medical examiner
could not be counted on to confidently testify, even though the
criminal charges were abuse of a disabled person and practicing
medicine without a license. You can read much of the Clearwater
police department's evidence and Scientology's logs of Lisa's stay,
view some of the autopsy photos, and decide for yourself."
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/.
Scientology harassed Dr. Joan Wood, the medical examiner, into
changing her determination of the cause of Lisa McPherson's death.
After that she was driven out of office over this affair. She
subsequently has gone missing, perhaps because she is under great
pressure not to testify in the upcoming civil wrongful death case.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/050601/news_pf/Pasco/Case_hinges_on_missin.shtml
So an analysis should assume that Scientology will run bizarre,
expensive, and dangerous operations to "get" their enemies. They will
try to destroy their enemies through law enforcement and the courts if
they can. They don't care if people get hurt and they almost always
get away with these operations because the victims are not believed or
it is just too difficult for even the state to pursue charges against
a corporation that spends $20-30 million a year on litigation.
"Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and
gives us more protection than any other single asset. If certain
parties thought we were real we would have infinitely more
trouble....
Without a public incredulity we never would have gotten as far as
we have. And now it's too late to be stopped. The protection was
accidental but it serves us very well indeed. Remember that next
time the ignorant scoff.
L. Ron Hubbard, [quoted in] The Scandal of Scientology by Paulette
Cooper
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-q2.html
Affidavit of Peter D. Keresteci
2235 Munns Ave.
Oakville, ON L6H 3M9
I am over the age of 18. If called upon to testify as to these
matters, I can and will.
I drove my daughters to the River Oaks School on Monday, May 28, 2001.
Two police officers approached me in the school parking lot after I
had dropped off my daughters. They indicated they had followed us
from our home.
One of them stated he was a Toronto Police officer and presented
identification. He showed me a poor quality photocopy of the image of
a person and asked me if I had seen this person. He further stated
that this person was staying next door with my long time neighbour,
Gregg Hagglund.
This officer claimed that the person depicted was wanted in the United
States on "explosive charges."
The quality of the photocopy was so poor I could not identify the
person as someone I had seen.
Signed under penalty of perjury under the laws of Ontario in Oakville,
Ontario.
[signed]
Peter D. Keresteci
Date Nov. 19, 2001
Keith Henson
wrote:
>At the Oakville Place Mall by Keith Henson
snip
Postscript
After this was written I received word that the missing material from
the court records in the Hemet case was not missing. Judge
Wallerstein sealed the part of the transcript where he made the
ruling--without notice and without indications in the transcript
itself that there was sealed material. The material sealed is in
direct conflict with his minute order of the day that makes no mention
of the motion he ruled on.
Three lawyers tell me this is to their knowledge an unprecedented act
for a judge. It is so insane and so likely to be caught that it
exceeds anything a junior law clerk would do much less a retired
judge. My advisors (some of whom are more and some less paranoid than
I am) could come up with only one idea--before he pulled this stunt,
the judge had been promised by OSA that I would not be around to
object to the appeal record being tampered with.
The speculation the cult had in mind for me to be incapacitated or
killed in jail, and the high-risk arrest analyzed in the previous
posting takes on a considerably more ominous character.
Assume for the purpose of argument this is true. Who is now a
potentially grave problem for the cult? On the assumption OSA failed
to take me out, and I have now exposed judicial acts that (properly
prosecuted) would get him many years in jail, Judge Wallerstein is a
potential trouble source for them. I.e., the cult has motivation to
turn on the judge before he turns on them.
In every case I know about, the cult has choked up when it comes down
to the act of killing people. But as others have pointed out this is
getting to be desperate times for the cult.
This argument, though speculative, was persuasive enough for me to
call appropriate law enforcement in that area and warn them that the
Judge's life may be in danger.
Keith Henson
Android Cat
diagramming this at the last picket with table items, my first question
was "Ahh, if they'd opened fire at you (my awful Starbucks EarlGrey, I
think), didn't you say that the mall court was behind you?" "Yes"
"Oh..."
This was a killing attempt. Not a "100% chain of events setup" however.
I think John W. Campbell called it rope logic. Rather than setup a 100%
chain that can be traced back, you setup 100 1% chances of killing
someone that would be called flukes if one paid off. (Yes, I know that
100x1% != 100%. My brain has already gone to bed. This is only the
backup brain.)
Co$ sent misinformed police officers into what they thought was a
highly-charged situation. And it stinks to high-heaven of the
information grabbing/altering that Co$ was doing before getting busted
in Ontario in 1981ish. (Ex: Undercover officer reading her superior's
personal files in Co$ hands) And knowledge is power.
Ron's backup brain of that ilk.
"Keith Henson" <hkhe...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:3bfc593e...@news2.lightlink.com...
John C. Randolph
GunBunny wrote:
Who the fuck cares?
Rumbunny, if anyone remembers you at all, it will be with the same
contempt that people hold for the assholes who taunted Martin Luther King.
-jcr
Christopher Wood
(SNIP)
> Co$ sent misinformed police officers into what they thought was a
> highly-charged situation. And it stinks to high-heaven of the
> information grabbing/altering that Co$ was doing before getting busted
> in Ontario in 1981ish. (Ex: Undercover officer reading her superior's
> personal files in Co$ hands) And knowledge is power.
Well, don't think it was the *cult* sending anyone anywhere... but judging
by the massive Scientology effort to get at Keith Henson even in Canada,
there's definitely a stink of some rotten theta about the whole
situation. At the very least, I suspect a number of police officers might
be very embarrassed at having believed a member of this cult...
> Ron's backup brain of that ilk.
(BIGSNIP)
--
-- Scientology's gate is down. --
Canadian Scientology information is now at:
http://xenu.ca/
John C. Randolph
GunBunny wrote:
>
> John C. Randolph wrote:
>
> >Rumbunny, if anyone remembers you at all, it will be with the same
> >contempt that people hold for the assholes who taunted Martin Luther King.
>
> Henson is no Martin Luther King, more like a misguided KKK member
> trying to get the clock rolled back to the good ole days.
Keith took on a murderous criminal nut-cult out of concern for the
people they've killed, and the people they might kill in the future.
I was wondering, rumbunny: were you raised to be a wortless sack of
shit, or did you decide to be that way all on your own?
-jcr
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>I hate to front-post like this, but when Keith and Gregg were
>diagramming this at the last picket with table items, my first question
>was "Ahh, if they'd opened fire at you (my awful Starbucks EarlGrey, I
>think), didn't you say that the mall court was behind you?" "Yes"
>"Oh..."
The police officers were apparently never trained to be constantly aware
of their backstop. It's something ingrained in military services yet I
guess cops aren't so trained.
It was Al Buttmore that made the insane claims to the police, wasn't it?
Wasn't he the one that claimed there was a bomb threat and that Mr. Henson
was driving around Canada with frozen heads in his car?
-- You love drugs! You love drugs, don't you?! You better
not say anything about my mother! Don't you DARE say anything
about my mother! -- Scientology's International President (Audio
files of this nutter at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
"What is the name of scientology's secret books?" -- a.r.s. query
"Mein Kampf." -- David Rice
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>>From: hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)
>>A dozen
>>police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
>>were put at great risk of death or injury.
>Is it possible that the biggest contributor to this risk you are complaining of
>is the fugitive himself who set up the fugitive apprehension situation?
Mary you dizzy cunt, your crime syndicate has been trying to kill since
since he first started protesting the murder of Stacy Moxon out in front
of your cult's heavily armed and fortified cult compound. This attempt
failed.
arnie lerma
<gun_bun...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>John C. Randolph wrote:
>
>>Rumbunny, if anyone remembers you at all, it will be with the same
>>contempt that people hold for the assholes who taunted Martin Luther King.
>
> Henson is no Martin Luther King, more like a misguided KKK member
>trying to get the clock rolled back to the good ole days.
>
Whereas your conduct is much like a properly guided [ by ron ] kkk
member....
>
>--
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
You want Bigots? http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html
©Anti-Cult® - www.users.wineasy.se/noname/
In Message-ID: <tvqva9q...@corp.supernews.com>
From: GunBunny <gun_bun...@hotmail.com>.
Organization: http://www.wvi.com/~n6jpa/minton/.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Better Luck Next Time, Henson.:
>John C. Randolph wrote:
>
>>Keith took on a murderous criminal nut-cult out of concern for the
>>people they've killed, and the people they might kill in the future.
>
>Did you know as a result of Sept. 11, your government can now take you from
>your home, imprison you, forbid you to contact anyone, deny they even have
>you imprisoned, try you in secret by military tribunal, execute you and bury
>you, and never tell a soul?
You got what you want didn't you?
SCIENTOLOGY CRIMINAL ASSHOLE!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
PS. We'll find you too.
STRQ
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"The court record is replete with evidence that Scientology is
nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum
amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific theories... and
to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to
continue with their sect...The organization clearly is schizophrenic
and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection
of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard."
Judge Paul Breckenridge, Los Angeles Superior Court
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
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Mike O'Connor
GunBunny <gun_bun...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> John C. Randolph wrote:
>
> >Rumbunny, if anyone remembers you at all, it will be with the same
> >contempt that people hold for the assholes who taunted Martin Luther King.
> Henson is no Martin Luther King, more like a misguided KKK member
> trying to get the clock rolled back to the good ole days.
And therefore you hate Mr. Henson with all of your heart and soul.
Right? Do you wish he were dead?
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Kymus
>Xenu allowed kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) to write:
>
>>>From: hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)
>
>>>A dozen
>>>police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
>>>were put at great risk of death or injury.
>
>>Is it possible that the biggest contributor to this risk you are complaining
>of
>>is the fugitive himself who set up the fugitive apprehension situation?
>
>Mary you dizzy cunt, your crime syndicate has been trying to kill since
>since he first started protesting the murder of Stacy Moxon out in front
>of your cult's heavily armed and fortified cult compound. This attempt
>failed.
>
Mary you dizzy cunt, they haven't been trying very hard then. You have adopted
the Doctrine of Scientological Infinite Evil in the religion you are forming
and seem to use that doctrine to shove any number of surmises, suspicions, and
knee-jerk accussations into to be pulled back out again annointed and Proven.
You resemble a Poodleboy indoctrinee willing to ascribe no end of ambition and
venality to psychiatrists.
How sad. Once you appeared halfway sane.
Michael
Henson....let me try..
Whining Narcissist, Paranoid Demagogue
You used to be a characature, now your paranoia has made you a danger to
yourself and others. Calling to inform the judge his life is in danger!?
You are a lunatic in every sense of the word imo.
Keep it up Henson. You are a walking self fulfilling prophecy. I pity
your wife.
Self aggrandizing, selfish, narcissist, paranoid.
Michael
Tommy
"Rev. Fredric L. Rice" <FR...@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:tvq77ch...@corp.supernews.com...
> Xenu allowed "Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> to write:
>
> >I hate to front-post like this, but when Keith and Gregg were
> >diagramming this at the last picket with table items, my first question
> >was "Ahh, if they'd opened fire at you (my awful Starbucks EarlGrey, I
> >think), didn't you say that the mall court was behind you?" "Yes"
> >"Oh..."
>
> The police officers were apparently never trained to be constantly aware
> of their backstop. It's something ingrained in military services yet I
> guess cops aren't so trained.
>
Not only are cops so trained, everyone who handles a firearm of any kind is
normally aware of the ten rules of firearm safety.
This is number four:
****************************************************************************
*******
Ten Rules of Firearm Safety
1. Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
2. Keep firearms unloaded until you're ready to shoot.
3. Don't Rely On Your Gun's "Safety"
4. Be Sure Of Your Target And What's Beyond It.
No one can call a shot back. Once a gun fires, you lose control over where
the bullet will go or what it strikes. Don't shoot unless you know exactly
what that bullet might hit. Be positive your bullet can't injure anyone or
anything downrange.
Be sure of your target. Firing at noise or movement or a noise without being
absolutely certain of what made it constitutes criminal disregard for the
safety of others. Be aware that even a .22 short bullet can travel more than
a mile. Bullets from high-velocity cartridges like a can fly more than 3
miles. Shotgun pellets can travel 500 yards, while shotgun slugs have a
range of more than half a mile.
Always should keep in mind how far a bullet will travel if it misses your
intended target or ricochets in another direction.
****************************************************************************
*******
I know that even beat cops are required to memorize the ten rules - you
can't get a Peace Officer's license in the US without passing this part of
the exam. It's also reinforced on the range by the Range Officers.
I'm afraid of SWAT-type specialized response groups for reasons made
apparent by the police behaviour at Keith's arrest.
These Rambo wanna-bes don't seem to care about anything but their mission -
the term "collateral damage" comes to mind here.
My wife was a LEO for a decade, and she doesn't like these guys much either.
"All Kevlar and no common sense" was the phrase she used to describe them.
Tommy
--
"If people get in your way,
they need to be dealt with one way or another."
Jeff Quiros, Scientology spokesman
Mike O'Connor
GunBunny <gun_bun...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike O'Connor wrote:
>
> >And therefore you hate Mr. Henson with all of your heart and soul.
> >Right? Do you wish he were dead?
>
> You are deranged, Mike. Just because I debate people and views
> on usenet doesn't mean I want them dead. Have you been reading too many
> Stephen King novels lately?
In this thread alone you said:
"Henson is [...] like a misguided KKK member trying to get the clock
rolled back to the good ole days."
"your martyrdom for the anti-cult cause"
"a Hagglund-Henson trust with gruesome photographs and pleas for money"
" you are still just a jerk screwing up your life"
"Maybe if you take a long walk on a short pier you can reach martyrdom
in the anti-cult cause"
Which words didn't I understand? Characterize your opinions on Mr.
Henson. TIA!
Keith Henson
>
>I hate to front-post like this, but when Keith and Gregg were
>diagramming this at the last picket with table items, my first question
>was "Ahh, if they'd opened fire at you (my awful Starbucks EarlGrey, I
>think), didn't you say that the mall court was behind you?" "Yes"
>"Oh..."
Thinking some more about this, it was even worse. There were two cops
behind the car as well as two in front. Had either pair fired, they
would have been shooting in the direction of the other pair. Had the
front cops fired, any misses would have gone into the food court, had
the cops in back fired there were even more cops behind the two close
in.
>This was a killing attempt. Not a "100% chain of events setup" however.
>I think John W. Campbell called it rope logic. Rather than setup a 100%
>chain that can be traced back, you setup 100 1% chances of killing
>someone that would be called flukes if one paid off. (Yes, I know that
>100x1% != 100%. My brain has already gone to bed. This is only the
>backup brain.)
*After* I wrote up the long article about the arrest, I found out the
scientologist (or someone) had induced the judge to action which will
cause a hell of a lot of trouble. As you say, it would be too risky
to just hire a killer and go after me, but having me unable to
complain about what they did with the judge would have fit their
plans.
Now they have a smoking gun of corrupting the judge to deal with.
Keith Henson
Zinj
gun_bun...@hotmail.com says...
> John C. Randolph wrote:
>
> >Keith took on a murderous criminal nut-cult out of concern for the
> >people they've killed, and the people they might kill in the future.
>
> your home, imprison you, forbid you to contact anyone, deny they even have
> you imprisoned, try you in secret by military tribunal, execute you and bury
> you, and never tell a soul?
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Keith
Oh horrors Keith! Perhaps if you can take some time off from helping the
'Church' of Scientology attain that very goal themselves, you might help
us 'criticize' the lamentable slip from freedom by the oh-so
unScientologist *elected* government of the US.
Zinj
John C. Randolph
GunBunny wrote:
>
> John C. Randolph wrote:
>
> >Keith took on a murderous criminal nut-cult out of concern for the
> >people they've killed, and the people they might kill in the future.
>
> Did you know as a result of Sept. 11, your government can now take you from
> your home, imprison you, forbid you to contact anyone, deny they even have
> you imprisoned, try you in secret by military tribunal, execute you and bury
> you, and never tell a soul?
Agents of the US government has *always* been able to do all the things
you describe since long before J. Edgar Hoover's time, it's just that
the indivduals who perform such acts under color of authority can be
prosecuted for it. This happens still to be the case.
And might I ask, what this has to do with the subject at hand?
-jcr
John C. Randolph
Michael wrote:
>
> I dont really have the words to express myself regarding you
> Henson....let me try..
> Whining Narcissist, Paranoid Demagogue
No, that was Hubbard, not Henson.
> You used to be a characature, now your paranoia has made you a danger to
> yourself and others. Calling to inform the judge his life is in danger!?
> You are a lunatic in every sense of the word imo.
>
> Keep it up Henson. You are a walking self fulfilling prophecy. I pity
> your wife.
> Self aggrandizing, selfish, narcissist, paranoid.
Do you know what a paranoid is, Michael?
Keith isn't paranoid, he is someone who really *does* have a criminal
nut-cult bent on ruining his life.
As for your claim that Keith is selfish, you are so full of shit you
should probably start your own criminal nut-cult. A selfish person
wouldn't have gone through a tenth of what Keith has to save your stupid
ass from being killed by your cult.
-jcr
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>>From: FR...@SkepticTank.ORG (Rev. Fredric L. Rice)
>>Xenu allowed kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) to write:
>>>>From: hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)
>>>>A dozen
>>>>police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
>>>>were put at great risk of death or injury.
>>>Is it possible that the biggest contributor to this risk you are complaining of
>>>is the fugitive himself who set up the fugitive apprehension situation?
>>Mary you dizzy cunt, your crime syndicate has been trying to kill since
>>since he first started protesting the murder of Stacy Moxon out in front
>>of your cult's heavily armed and fortified cult compound. This attempt
>>failed.
>Mary you dizzy cunt, they haven't been trying very hard then.
Mary you dizzy cunt, I suppose Scientology could help me with that, right?
<heh> Man, you flying saucer cult nutters are rather amusing.
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>John C. Randolph wrote:
>>Keith took on a murderous criminal nut-cult out of concern for the
>>people they've killed, and the people they might kill in the future.
>Did you know as a result of Sept. 11, your government can now take you from
>your home, imprison you, forbid you to contact anyone, deny they even have
>you imprisoned, try you in secret by military tribunal, execute you and bury
>you, and never tell a soul?
Keith you idiot, what ever gave you that idiot notion? L. Ron Hubbard
talking to you in your sleep again?
No, you idiot, the un-Constitutional Presidential Order only applies
to non-United States citizens who are operating here in the United States
or who are captured -- kidnapped -- abroad.
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>Mike O'Connor wrote:
>>And therefore you hate Mr. Henson with all of your heart and soul.
>>Right? Do you wish he were dead?
> You are deranged, Mike. Just because I debate people and views
>on usenet doesn't mean I want them dead.
You already admitted that you have no views or opinion. You already
admitted that you're a troll.
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>I dont really have the words to express myself regarding you
>Henson....let me try..
>Whining Narcissist, Paranoid Demagogue
He sure has your cult's number, John.
M. C. DiPietra
mused on 11/23/01 8:56 PM:
>
>
> Michael wrote:
>>
>> I dont really have the words to express myself regarding you
>> Henson....let me try..
>> Whining Narcissist, Paranoid Demagogue
>
> No, that was Hubbard, not Henson.
Bingo!
Funny how a lot of statements Scns make reflect projection. Such as below:
{"vicki" wrote on a parenting board...from a thread by cep:}
>>> Clear is definitely a real state, not
>>>just a “feel-good” exercise that fades with time.
I can hear the Mary-de-Moss urgency in her voice there: "It's real...it IS
real...it is SO real...it's NOT EITHER a "feel-good" exercise that fades
with time!"
-m., human being
FREE KEITH HENSON http://www.operatingthetan.com
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP5, KoX
http://mp3.com/MaggieCouncil
"Hell, if you understood everything I say, you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
Kymus
>Xenu allowed kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) to write:
>
>>>From: FR...@SkepticTank.ORG (Rev. Fredric L. Rice)
>
>>>Xenu allowed kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) to write:
>>>>>From: hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)
>>>>>A dozen
>>>>>police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
>>>>>were put at great risk of death or injury.
>>>>Is it possible that the biggest contributor to this risk you are
>complaining of
>>>>is the fugitive himself who set up the fugitive apprehension situation?
>>>Mary you dizzy cunt, your crime syndicate has been trying to kill since
>>>since he first started protesting the murder of Stacy Moxon out in front
>>>of your cult's heavily armed and fortified cult compound. This attempt
>>>failed.
>
>>Mary you dizzy cunt, they haven't been trying very hard then.
>
>Mary you dizzy cunt, I suppose Scientology could help me with that, right?
Mary you dizzy cunt, I suppose Scientology could. Not as much as a trendy knew
psychological tool called "self talk" though.
Turns out someone actually did some science, rather than just rant and reaching
into their own personal biases for evidence to back up the rant, that compared
the results of practicing TM compared to practicing "self talk" as it
influences the performance of girl soccer teams. Self talk came out ahead of
TM.
So Self Talk seems pretty potent in improving abilities. I would think if you
learned those arts it could help you a great deal. Making the able more able
seems to be the province of the scientists rather than Scientology these days,
though that state of affairs was once upon a time reversed.
A pity some people can't manage to come up to present time.
==
!! Internet encryption = terrorist secure phones.
!! Internet anonymity = a chink in the armor not needed by the innocent.
>> Vote accordingly
==
Rev. Fredric L. Rice
>>From: FR...@SkepticTank.ORG (Rev. Fredric L. Rice)
>>Xenu allowed kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) to write:
>>>>From: FR...@SkepticTank.ORG (Rev. Fredric L. Rice)
>>>>Xenu allowed kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) to write:
>>>>>>From: hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)
>>>>>>A dozen
>>>>>>police officers, members of the public, my friend Gregg Hagglund and I
>>>>>>were put at great risk of death or injury.
>>>>>Is it possible that the biggest contributor to this risk you are complaining of
>>>>>is the fugitive himself who set up the fugitive apprehension situation?
>>>>Mary you dizzy cunt, your crime syndicate has been trying to kill since
>>>>since he first started protesting the murder of Stacy Moxon out in front
>>>>of your cult's heavily armed and fortified cult compound. This attempt
>>>>failed.
>>>Mary you dizzy cunt, they haven't been trying very hard then.
>>Mary you dizzy cunt, I suppose Scientology could help me with that, right?
>Mary you dizzy cunt, I suppose Scientology could.
Mary you dizzy cunt, that's because only the insane believe Scientology
Inc. actually works.
Jommy Cross
<20011124144153...@mb-mc.aol.com>:
>Mary you dizzy cunt, I suppose Scientology could. Not as much as a trendy knew
>psychological tool called "self talk" though.
Yes! Reverse negative self-talk now! I'm with you 100% here, Kymus old
buddy.
>
>Turns out someone actually did some science, rather than just rant and reaching
>into their own personal biases for evidence to back up the rant,
So unlike the life of our own dear Ron.
> that compared
>the results of practicing TM compared to practicing "self talk" as it
>influences the performance of girl soccer teams. Self talk came out ahead of
>TM.
It probably came out ahead of toad-licking too. This is an endorsement?
>
>So Self Talk seems pretty potent in improving abilities.
Aaah, not necessarily. You just said it was better than TM. When did TM
become penicillin for the spirit?
> I would think if you
>learned those arts it could help you a great deal. Making the able more able
>seems to be the province of the scientists rather than Scientology these days,
>though that state of affairs was once upon a time reversed.
Oh, rilly? When was that? Which $cieno argued with Newton?
>
>A pity some people can't manage to come up to present time.
>
I'm with you 100% here, Kymus old buddy.
>
=
>!! Internet encryption = terrorist secure phones.
>!! Internet anonymity = a chink in the armor not needed by the innocent.
>>> Vote accordingly
I can't tell you how much I agree.
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
Jim Wissick
It's been a while since I have posted to ARS, but I had reply to this one.
> Not only are cops so trained, everyone who handles a firearm of any kind is
> normally aware of the ten rules of firearm safety.
Not entirely true. The sad part is that most officers don't know jack
about firearms or firearm laws. Too many officers are lucky if they
can hit the broadside of a barn. Too many only spend time on the range
when it's time to requalify.
> Ten Rules of Firearm Safety
These rules are not etched in stone. They vary from place to place.
I preach the same 3 rules that the NRA preaches.
1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
> 2. Keep firearms unloaded until you're ready to shoot.
A poorly worded rule, but I am not going to get into that now.
> 4. Be Sure Of Your Target And What's Beyond It.
This actually is covered in my rule 1. It's redundant and not often taught.
It does not apply to law enforcement nor to self defense.
In fact, most states have laws to the effect: should you miss the threat
with a shot, in a self defense situation, and hit an innocent by
accident, the innocent may not sue you. Keep in mind that I am not a
lawyer nor do I play one on TV. Your milage my vary.
In addition hollow points, used by most LEO, are designed to prevent
over penetration by stopping or drastically slowing inside the target.
Aiming at your threat with innocents directly behind the threat is somewhat
acceptable, depending on the situation.
> I know that even beat cops are required to memorize the ten rules - you
> can't get a Peace Officer's license in the US without passing this part of
> the exam. It's also reinforced on the range by the Range Officers.
They are not required to memorize the 10 rules.
Peace Officers license in the US??? Who cares? He was talking about Canada.
Not to mention there is no requirement for a "peace officers license" in
the US, only in some (very few) states.
> I'm afraid of SWAT-type specialized response groups for reasons made
> apparent by the police behaviour at Keith's arrest.
> These Rambo wanna-bes don't seem to care about anything but their mission -
> the term "collateral damage" comes to mind here.
> My wife was a LEO for a decade, and she doesn't like these guys much either.
> "All Kevlar and no common sense" was the phrase she used to describe them.
AKA Jack Booted Thugs
--
--------------------------------
The value of my life, my rights, and those of my family are priceless;
your life and your Rights, should you choose to threaten mine, are worth
exactly $4.50 -- delivered 325 grains at a time.
To reply to this message, remove SPAMBLOCK from the email address.
http://www.best.com/~jwissick/jwissick.txt for my public PGP key.
Beverly Rice
> In alt.religion.scientology Tommy <Tommy_sp**ges...@xs.net> wrote:
> > Not only are cops so trained, everyone who handles a firearm of any kind is
> > normally aware of the ten rules of firearm safety.
> Not entirely true. The sad part is that most officers don't know jack
> about firearms or firearm laws. Too many officers are lucky if they
> can hit the broadside of a barn. Too many only spend time on the range
> when it's time to requalify.
and there's a ~BIG~ difference between target shooting
and shooting a moving target under pressure situations.
Just like in this situation we are talking about there was
a ~BIG~ difference in going full armed without fully checking
the facts first, therefore going in basically uninformed
regarding the truth of the situation and acting on innuendo.
But again, this isn't the first time the Co$ has been
dishonest and authorities ran in armed on those Co$
labeled as "enemy" and "criminal" without checking the
facts first.
Check out the following link to see how Co$ even was able
to get INTERPOL involved in going after one of their ~MAJOR~
perceived "enemies", and the local authorities fully armed
and ready for action. Re: DAVID MAYO
http://www.icon.fi/~marina/1stpersn/dmayo002.txt
Among the many reasons for Mayo being declared and "enemy"
by the Co$, revolves around the suicide of Miscaviges
mother in law following a "disagreement" about her not
using LRH/Co$ services, but seeing the "squirrel" Mayo
instead.
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/flo_barnett/coroner.html
ARC = As-Ising the Real Co$,
Beverly
Kymus
>(Kymus) wrote
> . . . I suppose Scientology could. Not as much as a trendy knew
>>psychological tool called "self talk" though.
. . .
>> . . . that compared
>>the results of practicing TM compared to practicing "self talk" as it
>>influences the performance of girl soccer teams. Self talk came out ahead
>of
>>TM.
>
>It probably came out ahead of toad-licking too. This is an endorsement?
It improved performance.
I can focus on the main point, I will focus on the main point, and gosh darn
it, people like it when I focus on the main point.
>>So Self Talk seems pretty potent in improving abilities.
>
>Aaah, not necessarily. You just said it was better than TM. When did TM
>become penicillin for the spirit?
Considerable evidence indicates that stress and performance are related. The
best simplistic relationship envisions an upside down U. Too little stress,
falling off to the lefthand side, and performance is poor, too much stress,
falling off to the right, and performance is poor. Ability to determine stress
levels through learned behavior is therefore relatable to performance. TM has
been studied and found to be usable to regulate stress levels by the
practioner.
I'm a concise issue presenter, I avoid profanity, and golly gee, I can write a
post while sticking to the issue without mentioning the erotic potential of
tight little girl soccer butts trotting around the field.
=>
Message-ID: <tvvg4oi...@corp.supernews.com> FRice replied to The Pope's
apology for sexual misconduct by Catholic priests by calling The Pope a
pederast. On what evidence? None of course. When reading FRice, consider the
source.<=
©Anti-Cult® - www.users.wineasy.se/noname/
In Message-ID: <u033vvf...@corp.supernews.com>
From: GunBunny <gun_bun...@hotmail.com>.
Organization: http://www.wvi.com/~n6jpa/minton/.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Better Luck Next Time, Henson.:
>Mike O'Connor wrote:
>
>>Which words didn't I understand? Characterize your opinions on Mr.
>>Henson. TIA!
>
> Henson is trying to reach martyrdom for the internet, AKA his sandbox.
>Mike you live with your head up your ass.
And you live as a criminal agent for scientology........
SAZ
Mike O'Connor
GunBunny <gun_bun...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike O'Connor wrote:
>
> >Which words didn't I understand? Characterize your opinions on Mr.
> >Henson. TIA!
>
> Henson is trying to reach martyrdom for the internet, AKA his sandbox.
> Mike you live with your head up your ass.
What makes you say that, Gun Bunny?
Zinj
kymu...@aol.comnoemail says...
Unfortunately, you seem to have bought into the 'relabel and resell as
new' silliness, what with your 'I'm a....' Stuart Smalley 'affirmation'
exercise. (a nice link at:
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/scripts/91asmalley.phtml )
Of course, 'affirmations' are a form of autohypnosis, and, whether called
'self-talking' or 'the power of positive thinking'; whether Hubbard
telling himself 'All women are dust beneath my Godlike wheels' or Norman
Vincent Peale chanting 'Every Day In Every Way I'm Getting Better and
Better'.
The 'power of positive thinking' runs up against a brick wall when you
successfully manage to convince yourself that something untrue is true.
Of course, following Hubbard's, 'true for you' paradigm, your solipsistic
faith in your 'beingness' as 'consise issue presenter' may lead you down
the primrose path to delusional thinking.
Don't matter whether it's called a postulate, affirmation, positive
thinking, self-talk or auto-hypnosis; convincing yourself of the truth of
bullshit may be handy, effective or even 'powerful', but objective
reality is likely to bite you in your subjective butt :)
Zinj
Kymus
>Of course, 'affirmations' are a form of autohypnosis,
"Of course" why?
>The 'power of positive thinking' runs up against a brick wall when you
>successfully manage to convince yourself that something untrue is true.
Well, okay. But how do I know what's true before I really thoroughly search
out the matter?
How do I know until I earnestly try? Never try, never know. Never get up the
determination to try, never know. The prospect of sometimes overcommitting to
a silly idea is not so bad as resigning oneself to stale solutions that never
go as far as one wants.
Life is risky. You have to take a few changes and stick your neck out to get
ahead.
I can convince people the earth revolves around the sun,
I will convince people the earth revolves around the sun,
And, gosh darn it, even though anyone with the intelligence of a well adjusted
hampster can look up and see that the sun revolves around the earth, I'm going
to TRY to convince people that the earth revolves around the sun.
Jommy Cross
<20011125152437...@mb-mu.aol.com>:
>>From: jommy...@slann.org (Jommy Cross)
>
>>(Kymus) wrote
>
>> . . . I suppose Scientology could. Not as much as a trendy knew
>>>psychological tool called "self talk" though.
>. . .
>>> . . . that compared
>>>the results of practicing TM compared to practicing "self talk" as it
>>>influences the performance of girl soccer teams. Self talk came out ahead
>>of
>>>TM.
>>
>>It probably came out ahead of toad-licking too. This is an endorsement?
>
>It improved performance.
>
Sure. Doing anything to a soccer team improves performance, though. But,
okay, assuming you have a reference for this rumor I might agree.
Do you have a reference?
>I can focus on the main point, I will focus on the main point, and gosh darn
>it, people like it when I focus on the main point.
Whatever floats your boat, d00d. I kinda like it. I was also impressed by
your purple prose about the eeevil scientists in your previous.
>>>So Self Talk seems pretty potent in improving abilities.
>>
>>Aaah, not necessarily. You just said it was better than TM. When did TM
>>become penicillin for the spirit?
>
>Considerable evidence indicates that stress and performance are related. The
>best simplistic relationship envisions an upside down U. Too little stress,
>falling off to the lefthand side, and performance is poor, too much stress,
>falling off to the right, and performance is poor.
Simplistically, yes.
>Ability to determine stress
>levels through learned behavior is therefore relatable to performance.
Simplistically, yes.
>TM has
>been studied and found to be usable to regulate stress levels by the
>practioner.
Sure. I'm fully in favor of the possibility of slacking when I feel like
it. Or when anyone else feels like it. Does repeating the name of a god
necessarily enhance the meditation experience?
>I'm a concise issue presenter, I avoid profanity, and golly gee, I can write a
>post while sticking to the issue without mentioning the erotic potential of
>tight little girl soccer butts trotting around the field.
So who's this other guy who posts under the name 'Kymus'?