Jett Travolta Is Not The Only One In Scientology Who Died Because They Were Denied Proper Medical Care
kennethno...@gmail.com
http://www.scientomogy.com/jeremy_perkins.php
Learn about Lisa McPherson:
http://www.lisamcpherson.org
More:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
"As an R.N. and Legal Nurse Consultant familiar with protocols for
managing seizure disorders, I can tell you that FIRST, it is
Neurologists, not Neurosurgeons that manage medication regimens for
patients with seizure disorders, like Jett. SECOND, the correct
protocol for discontinuing a seizure drug is to first implement a NEW
drug and get it up to therapeutic levels, and only after that, taper
or discontinue the old drug. And THIRD, no practicing physician of any
kind would make such an inappropriate recommendation for fear of being
sued. If the parents do not file such a lawsuit, then these
"Neurosurgeons" probably don't exist. Instead, withholding the
depakote without medical advice was the parents' idea was the
proximate cause of Jett's death. As a Guardian ad Litem I think it
should be investigated. "
From http://stopscientology.blogspot.com/2009/01/jett-travolta-was-taken-off-medication.html
--
John Travolta Refused To Help His Son Jett - How Is This Not Child
Abuse?
http://stopscientology.blogspot.com/2009/01/john-travolta-refused-to-help-his-son.html
Boycott Valkyrie!
Don't pay to see it! Don't support Tom Cruise supporting
Scientology! Watch it here online streaming for free:
http://www.boycottvalkyrie.com/watch_valkyrie_for_free.php
Ball of Fluff
kennethno...@gmail.com
wrote:
Good question Claire.
Was it a Scientology ambulance? Were they instructed by Scientology
to give him Niacin & vitamins and try to get him to do exercises while
on the way to the hospital? I only ask this because of how Lisa
McPherson was treated. She would still be alive today if the
Scientologists would have gotten her to regular doctor and hospital
instead of driving her almost a hundred miles out of the way to go and
see a Scientologist doctor.
Also, just a reminder........ if Depakote doesn't work for your grand
mal seizures (as in Jett Travolta's case)..... it's only intelligent
(above that of a chimp's mind) to try one of the other hundred drugs
out there that WILL WORK -
http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
This was posted to my Blog.......
"As an R.N. and Legal Nurse Consultant familiar with protocols for
managing seizure disorders, I can tell you that FIRST, it is
Neurologists, not Neurosurgeons that manage medication regimens for
patients with seizure disorders, like Jett. SECOND, the correct
protocol for discontinuing a seizure drug is to first implement a NEW
drug and get it up to therapeutic levels, and only after that, taper
or discontinue the old drug. And THIRD, no practicing physician of any
kind would make such an inappropriate recommendation for fear of being
sued. If the parents do not file such a lawsuit, then these
"Neurosurgeons" probably don't exist. Instead, withholding the
depakote without medical advice was the parents' idea was the
proximate cause of Jett's death. As a Guardian ad Litem I think it
should be investigated. "
John Travolta Refused To Help His Son Jett - How Is This Not Child
Abuse?
http://stopscientology.blogspot.com/2009/01/john-travolta-refused-to-help-his-son.html
Jett Travolta Was Taken Off The Medication That Was Preventing His
Seizures
http://stopscientology.blogspot.com/2009/01/jett-travolta-was-taken-off-medication.html
--
barbz
Now you're just venturing into the realm of utter stupidity...
--
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Ball of Fluff
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4277a747-88ca-4dbf...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 19, 12:31 pm, "Ball of Fluff" <getoffmy...@fluffentology.com>
> wrote:
>> What about the ambulance he was in?
>>
>> C
>>
>> www.claireswazey.com
>
>
> Good question Claire.
>
> Was it a Scientology ambulance?
A Scn ambulance? Tell me you're joking.
> Were they instructed by Scientology
> to give him Niacin & vitamins and try to get him to do exercises while
> on the way to the hospital?
I hardly doubt it with Jett on a stretcher and all.
> I only ask this because of how Lisa
> McPherson was treated. She would still be alive today if the
> Scientologists would have gotten her to regular doctor and hospital
> instead of driving her almost a hundred miles out of the way to go and
> see a Scientologist doctor.
And she wasn't in an ambulance either. Jett was.
>
> Also, just a reminder........ if Depakote doesn't work for your grand
> mal seizures (as in Jett Travolta's case)..... it's only intelligent
> (above that of a chimp's mind) to try one of the other hundred drugs
> out there that WILL WORK -
> http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
And maybe they did.
C
kennethno...@gmail.com
wrote:
> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4277a747-88ca-4dbf...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jan 19, 12:31 pm, "Ball of Fluff" <getoffmy...@fluffentology.com>
> > wrote:
> >> What about the ambulance he was in?
>
> >> C
>
> >>www.claireswazey.com
>
> > Good question Claire.
>
> > Was it a Scientology ambulance?
>
> A Scn ambulance? Tell me you're joking.
lol I was just goofin' around :)
> > Were they instructed by Scientology
> > to give him Niacin & vitamins and try to get him to do exercises while
> > on the way to the hospital?
>
> I hardly doubt it with Jett on a stretcher and all.
What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that was
working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
For the last two years of Jett's life, he was on nothing but
"Scientology love" for his Grand Mal Seizures. This consisted of
vitamins, niacin, and exercise.
How sad, considering he needed to be on REAL medication for his grand
mal seizures.
If Depakote wasn't working..... here's a bunch of other medication's
that would have worked:
http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
> > I only ask this because of how Lisa
> > McPherson was treated. She would still be alive today if the
> > Scientologists would have gotten her to regular doctor and hospital
> > instead of driving her almost a hundred miles out of the way to go and
> > see a Scientologist doctor.
>
> And she wasn't in an ambulance either. Jett was.
If Jett Travolta would have been treated properly in the first place,
like a normal human being - non Scientologist, he would have never had
to enter that last ride in the ambulance.
> > Also, just a reminder........ if Depakote doesn't work for your grand
> > mal seizures (as in Jett Travolta's case)..... it's only intelligent
> > (above that of a chimp's mind) to try one of the other hundred drugs
> > out there that WILL WORK -
> >http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
>
> And maybe they did.
NO, They didn't. There is NO documentation stating anything like
that. Don't put that idea out there at all. The Travolta's did
nothing to save their son from death.
They tried Depakote, then two years ago pulled him from it.
He was on nothing when he died.
He needed to be on something http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
, and he wasn't.
The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family deliberately
killed Jett Travolta. How sad.......
Ball of Fluff
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:050d574c-b874-4511...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 19, 11:23 pm, "Ball of Fluff" <getoffmy...@fluffentology.com>
> wrote:
>> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4277a747-88ca-4dbf...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Jan 19, 12:31 pm, "Ball of Fluff" <getoffmy...@fluffentology.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> What about the ambulance he was in?
>>
>> >> C
>>
>> >>www.claireswazey.com
>>
>> > Good question Claire.
>>
>> > Was it a Scientology ambulance?
>>
>> A Scn ambulance? Tell me you're joking.
>
>
> lol I was just goofin' around :)
>
>
>> > Were they instructed by Scientology
>> > to give him Niacin & vitamins and try to get him to do exercises while
>> > on the way to the hospital?
>>
>> I hardly doubt it with Jett on a stretcher and all.
>
>
> What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that was
> working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
>
> For the last two years of Jett's life, he was on nothing but
> "Scientology love" for his Grand Mal Seizures. This consisted of
> vitamins, niacin, and exercise.
How do you know he was just getting vitamins, niacin and exercise? It's a
supposition.
In any event, my comment was wrt your comment that he was getting/doing
those things IN THE AMBULANCE.
>
> How sad, considering he needed to be on REAL medication for his grand
> mal seizures.
>
> If Depakote wasn't working..... here's a bunch of other medication's
> that would have worked:
> http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
>
>
>> > I only ask this because of how Lisa
>> > McPherson was treated. She would still be alive today if the
>> > Scientologists would have gotten her to regular doctor and hospital
>> > instead of driving her almost a hundred miles out of the way to go and
>> > see a Scientologist doctor.
>>
>> And she wasn't in an ambulance either. Jett was.
>
>
> If Jett Travolta would have been treated properly in the first place,
> like a normal human being - non Scientologist, he would have never had
> to enter that last ride in the ambulance.
I don't think either of us has all the facts. I think this is a witchhunt
and that people here are devoutly hoping that Jett was neglected. T'aint
necessarily so.
>
>
>> > Also, just a reminder........ if Depakote doesn't work for your grand
>> > mal seizures (as in Jett Travolta's case)..... it's only intelligent
>> > (above that of a chimp's mind) to try one of the other hundred drugs
>> > out there that WILL WORK -
>> >http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
>>
>> And maybe they did.
>
> NO, They didn't. There is NO documentation stating anything like
> that. Don't put that idea out there at all. The Travolta's did
> nothing to save their son from death.
That's a supposition.
>
> They tried Depakote, then two years ago pulled him from it.
>
> He was on nothing when he died.
>
> He needed to be on something
> http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
> , and he wasn't.
>
> The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family deliberately
> killed Jett Travolta. How sad.......
They did not deliberately kill Jett Travolta. What a nasty irresponsible
thing to say.
Have fun with your witchhunt.
C
John Dorsay
> <kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that was
>> working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
>>
>> For the last two years of Jett's life, he was on nothing but
>> "Scientology love" for his Grand Mal Seizures. This consisted of
>> vitamins, niacin, and exercise.
>
>
> How do you know he was just getting vitamins, niacin and exercise? It's a
> supposition.
Suppositions, facts, opinions, proofs. What's the difference?
Aren't they interchangeable these days?
John
--
"Phenobarbital is also helpful in getting off Xanax."
Paul Horner
aka Fred Durks
aka BarbaraSc...@gmail.com
aka JamesWestfa...@gmail.com
aka kennethno...@gmail.com
aka netskril...@gmail.com
dba silver...@gmail.com (http://tinyurl.com/8japvj)
l.l.lipshitz
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in
<050d574c-b874-4511...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
[...]
| What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that was
| working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
dox, please.
| For the last two years of Jett's life, he was on nothing but
| "Scientology love" for his Grand Mal Seizures. This consisted of
| vitamins, niacin, and exercise.
dox, please.
| How sad, considering he needed to be on REAL medication for his grand
| mal seizures.
dox, please.
[...]
| If Jett Travolta would have been treated properly in the first place,
dox, please.
| like a normal human being - non Scientologist, he would have never had
| to enter that last ride in the ambulance.
dox, please.
| > > Also, just a reminder........ if Depakote doesn't work for your grand
| > > mal seizures (as in Jett Travolta's case)..... it's only intelligent
| > > (above that of a chimp's mind) to try one of the other hundred drugs
| > > out there that WILL WORK -
| > >http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
| >
| > And maybe they did.
|
| NO, They didn't. There is NO documentation stating anything like
| that.
other than a lawyer blabbing to the press about
depakote, i don't think there is any documentation
stating that they did or did not try other meds.
if you have such info...dox, please.
|Don't put that idea out there at all. The Travolta's did
| nothing to save their son from death.
dox, please.
[...]
|
| The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family deliberately
| killed Jett Travolta. How sad.......
DR. noisewater, you've made quite a few insightful
medical claims here, no doubt based on your vast
medical knowledge and experience, and it is very
obvious that you have access to inside info that
the rest of us do not. perhaps if we asked really
sweetly, you would be so kind as to share the
results of your personal examination and treatment
of jett? thanks ever so much.
--
-elle
--------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
people are not only innately stupid,
they are ambitiously so. -kk
kennethno...@gmail.com
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:56:36 -0800 (PST), kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com
> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <050d574c-b874-4511-84a4-69cfaeaf9...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
What dox are you looking for? Every publication our there states that
the Travolta's, after consulting with a neurosurgeon, decided to pull
Jett off of the Depakote that he was taking. That was two years ago.
I'm confused about what you're looking for?
l.l.lipshitz
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in
<2bca6f5d-5b08-4f57...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
| On Jan 20, 9:28 am, "l.l.lipshitz" <elk...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
| > On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:56:36 -0800 (PST), kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com
| > <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in
| > <050d574c-b874-4511-84a4-69cfaeaf9...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
| >
| > [...]
| >
| > | What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that was
| > | working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
| >
| > dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that jett was on depakote?
the lawyers said so but do they know? anyone else
say so? what evidence do you have that it was
'working' for him (controlling his seizures, no
serious side-effects, etc)? how do you know he was
taken off depakote 2 yrs ago? how long was he on it?
was he on anything *before* it?
| > | For the last two years of Jett's life, he was on nothing but
| > | "Scientology love" for his Grand Mal Seizures. This consisted of
| > | vitamins, niacin, and exercise.
| >
| > dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that jett had grand mal
seizures? how do you know he was treated with
nothing more than vitamins, etc for the last 2 yrs?
eyewitnesses?
| > | How sad, considering he needed to be on REAL medication for his grand
| > | mal seizures.
| >
| > dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that he had grand mal
seizures? what 'real medication' did he need ('i
looked it up on the web' won't do)? do we have
access to his medical files? did someone interview
his personal physician?
| > [...]
| >
| > | If Jett Travolta would have been treated properly in the first place,
| >
| > dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that jett was not treated
properly? eyewitnesses? what is 'properly'? what
was 'improper' about jett's treatment? what was
his treatment?
| > | like a normal human being - non Scientologist, he would have never had
| > | to enter that last ride in the ambulance.
| >
| > dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that non-scn treatment
would have prevented his death? or that scn
treatment caused it? do you know what kind of
treatment he got?
| > | > > Also, just a reminder........ if Depakote doesn't work for your grand
| > | > > mal seizures (as in Jett Travolta's case)..... it's only intelligent
| > | > > (above that of a chimp's mind) to try one of the other hundred drugs
| > | > > out there that WILL WORK -
| > | > >http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_medicines
| > | >
| > | > And maybe they did.
| > |
| > | NO, They didn't. There is NO documentation stating anything like
| > | that.
| >
| > other than a lawyer blabbing to the press about
| > depakote, i don't think there is any documentation
| > stating that they did or did not try other meds.
| > if you have such info...dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that jett was not put on
any other anti-seizure medication? because the
travolta lawyers didn't mention it? do you know if
he was on any medication before depakote? do you
know if any of those medications at epilepsy.com
would 'work' for jett or are appropriate?
| > |Don't put that idea out there at all. The Travolta's did
| > | nothing to save their son from death.
| >
| > dox, please.
eg, do you have evidence that the travoltas did
nothing to save their son's life? eyewitnesses?
| > [...]
| >
| > |
| > | The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family deliberately
| > | killed Jett Travolta. How sad.......
| >
| > DR. noisewater, you've made quite a few insightful
| > medical claims here, no doubt based on your vast
| > medical knowledge and experience, and it is very
| > obvious that you have access to inside info that
| > the rest of us do not. perhaps if we asked really
| > sweetly, you would be so kind as to share the
| > results of your personal examination and treatment
| > of jett? thanks ever so much.
eg, do you have evidence that co$ and the travoltas
deliberately killed jett? have you turned it over to
the police yet?
| What dox are you looking for? Every publication our there states that
| the Travolta's, after consulting with a neurosurgeon, decided to pull
| Jett off of the Depakote that he was taking. That was two years ago.
afaik, 'every publication' is repeating what one or
both of the travolta lawyers said.
do you have any corroborating evidence? statements
made by lawyers (who are friends but not doctors) in
an emotional moment may or may not be accurate. did
they have the travoltas' permission to make such
statements (esp since the travoltas have been very
quiet about jett's situation)? did they actually know
the intimate details of jett's medical condition and
treatment? did they fail to mention any other anti-
seizure medication because jett was never put on
anything else or because they didn't know? was jett
ever on another medication *before* depakote? what
exactly did these neurosurgeons (or neurologists) say
about anti-seizure medication for jett or his
treatment in general? did the travoltas get
permission, like tory, to treat jett's seizures with
drugs?
| I'm confused about what you're looking for?
factual information. evidence from reputable sources.
too many assumptions have been made that are based
on hating scn and wanting to see it criticized at
all costs. maybe the travoltas are evil scnists who
abused their son, i don't know. i'd like to see
sturdier info before i accuse them of such foul
deeds.
since i have not read *everything* i have
undoubtedly missed information. your assertions
indicate to me either (a) you're filling in the
blanks of holey news reports with alot of
assumptions or (b) you have information that i do
not. either way, i'd like to see the evidence that
supports your assertions.
does that sufficiently explain what i'm looking for?
Monica Pignotti
Aside from the fact that reports from gossip columns are not evidence,
I think you're mistaken if you think the following statement is
correct. You wrote:
| What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that
was
| working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
That is not what was reported. What was reported was that the Depakote
was NOT working any longer for him. According to the report, it had
worked at first but then stopped working, which is the point he was
taken off the meds after the Travoltas consulted the
"neurosurgeon" (actually it is usually neurologists who deal with
this, but that could have been a reporter error). But again, I agree
with Elle that we really need to see more evidence than what has been
reported second-hand in the press before jumping to the sorts of
conclusions you are jumping to. But you're not alone -- there are
plenty of self-proclaimed cult experts that are making the same kind
of error.
http://psychjourney_blogs.typepad.com/monica_pignotti_/2009/01/inaccurate-statements-by-steve-hassan-to-cnn.html
This is not to defend Scientology -- only to caution people from
jumping to unwarranted conclusions that can be so easily shot down. It
is that sort of highly premature jumping to conclusions that actually
helps Scientology by losing critics and "cult experts" credibility.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:11:27 -0800 (PST), kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com
> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <2bca6f5d-5b08-4f57-a9b7-63e6b5cef...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
Yes exactly, Elle. Well said. You've explained yourself very well.
kennethno...@gmail.com
[snip]
I'm not saying I know the answers, no one does at this point besides
the Travolta's and maybe the cops, especially the ones who were
looking for answers with Jett's caretaker/photographer. I'm just
speculating on what's been reported along with Scientology's treatment
for people with mental illnesses.
We know Jett was on Depakote (a drug that works for seizures) two
years ago. For some reason he was pulled off of it. I imagine if he
would have been put on one of the other hundred's of drugs out there
for seizures, that would have been reported but it wasn't. So, it's
safe to say that for the last two years Jett's been on nothing except
Scientology's own special cure for people with mental illnesses, and
that's exercise and vitamins.
So, ask for "dox" again lol it's funny
Eldon
> On Jan 21, 9:49 am, "l.l.lipshitz" <elk...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> I'm not saying I know the answers, no one does at this point besides
> the Travolta's and maybe the cops, especially the ones who were
> looking for answers with Jett's caretaker/photographer. I'm just
> speculating on what's been reported along with Scientology's treatment
> for people with mental illnesses.
>
> We know Jett was on Depakote (a drug that works for seizures) two
> years ago. For some reason he was pulled off of it. I imagine if he
> would have been put on one of the other hundred's of drugs out there
> for seizures, that would have been reported but it wasn't. So, it's
> safe to say that for the last two years Jett's been on nothing except
> Scientology's own special cure for people with mental illnesses, and
> that's exercise and vitamins.
>
> So, ask for "dox" again lol it's funny
The underlying message here is that the Travoltas and Scientology are
trying to cover up the embarrassing details as best they can; so we'll
probably never know thanks to them.
Therefore, we should all just shut up and help them out instead of
engaging in unwarranted "tabloid speculation" like those naughty ol'
major newspapers that have reported on the case, and the undependable
word of Travolta's attorney acting as a family spokesperson.
kennethno...@gmail.com
> On Jan 22, 6:58 am, kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 21, 9:49 am, "l.l.lipshitz" <elk...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> > I'm not saying I know the answers, no one does at this point besides
> > the Travolta's and maybe the cops, especially the ones who were
> > looking for answers with Jett's caretaker/photographer. I'm just
> > speculating on what's been reported along with Scientology's treatment
> > for people with mental illnesses.
>
> > We know Jett was on Depakote (a drug that works for seizures) two
> > years ago. For some reason he was pulled off of it. I imagine if he
> > would have been put on one of the other hundred's of drugs out there
> > for seizures, that would have been reported but it wasn't. So, it's
> > safe to say that for the last two years Jett's been on nothing except
> > Scientology's own special cure for people with mental illnesses, and
> > that's exercise and vitamins.
>
> > So, ask for "dox" again lol it's funny
>
> The underlying message here is that the Travoltas and Scientology are
> trying to cover up the embarrassing details as best they can; so we'll
> probably never know thanks to them.
>
> Therefore, we should all just shut up and help them out instead of
> engaging in unwarranted "tabloid speculation" like those naughty ol'
> major newspapers that have reported on the case, and the undependable
> word of Travolta's attorney acting as a family spokesperson.
I agree with Eldon on this one.
It's obvious Scientology or the Travolta's are trying to hide
something about Jett's death and we should respect that. Now is not
the time to ask questions or throw ideas out there about what really
happened. We should all wait until everyone forgets about this unholy
mess.
Eldon
Yeah, and who did that "R.N./Legal Nurse Consultant familiar with
protocols for managing seizure disorders" think she or he was to
comment on managing seizure disorders? This person is not a qualified
professional -- but oops, this person sort of is a qualified
professional.
Oh, well. Anyway, you should probably just remove that comment from
your blog until we know more, which we never will anyway due to the
coverup efforts that we're supposed to ignore until further notice.
Anything to make Monica happy. I'm sure that what we've said so far
will get each of us a condescending pat on the head from her, since
she doesn't do irony at all. ;-)
l.l.lipshitz
| On Jan 22, 10:47 am, kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com wrote:
| > On Jan 22, 2:29 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
| >
| >
| >
| > > On Jan 22, 6:58 am, kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com wrote:
| >
| > > > On Jan 21, 9:49 am, "l.l.lipshitz" <elk...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
| > > > [snip]
| >
| > > > I'm not saying I know the answers, no one does at this point besides
| > > > the Travolta's and maybe the cops, especially the ones who were
| > > > looking for answers with Jett's caretaker/photographer. I'm just
| > > > speculating on what's been reported along with Scientology's treatment
| > > > for people with mental illnesses.
| >
| > > > We know Jett was on Depakote (a drug that works for seizures) two
| > > > years ago. For some reason he was pulled off of it. I imagine if he
| > > > would have been put on one of the other hundred's of drugs out there
| > > > for seizures, that would have been reported but it wasn't. So, it's
| > > > safe to say that for the last two years Jett's been on nothing except
| > > > Scientology's own special cure for people with mental illnesses, and
| > > > that's exercise and vitamins.
| >
| > > > So, ask for "dox" again lol it's funny
ok. dox, please. hahahaha. it's so hilarious to
expect critics to support their arguments with
facts. 'facts are stupid things' (r.reagan).
since you have yet to provide any dox, i'm thinking
you don't grasp the concept.
| > > The underlying message here is that the Travoltas and Scientology are
| > > trying to cover up the embarrassing details as best they can; so we'll
| > > probably never know thanks to them.
i would say that this is the opinion of a
majority of critics.
| > > Therefore, we should all just shut up and help them out instead of
| > > engaging in unwarranted "tabloid speculation" like those naughty ol'
| > > major newspapers that have reported on the case, and the undependable
| > > word of Travolta's attorney acting as a family spokesperson.
<sigh> is your mind so small that there's no room
for other possibilities?
i told no one to shut up, tho i do understand that
accusation is the traditional ars response to
contrary opinions. why am i 'helping them out'
(doing osa's work??) by criticizing critics for
slinging assumptions and innuendo like hog slop?
when did it become a crime to ask questions or
expect accurate info from critics? when did facts
become so scary?
| > I agree with Eldon on this one.
| >
| > It's obvious Scientology or the Travolta's are trying to hide
| > something about Jett's death and we should respect that. Now is not
| > the time to ask questions or throw ideas out there about what really
| > happened. We should all wait until everyone forgets about this unholy
| > mess.
now IS the time to ask questions and throw ideas
out there; now is NOT the time to accuse the
travoltas of abusing jett because we don't have
sufficient information to support that notion.
i don't know why that is so hard to understand.
| Yeah, and who did that "R.N./Legal Nurse Consultant familiar with
| protocols for managing seizure disorders" think she or he was to
| comment on managing seizure disorders? This person is not a qualified
| professional -- but oops, this person sort of is a qualified
| professional.
i did not read that comment so i must ask:
did that rn/legal nurse consultant describe the
common/typical/usual method of managing seizure
disorders? or did s/he explain how jett's case was
screwed up because it wasn't handled correctly? the
former is fine; the latter is decidely presumptuous,
to comment 'professionally' on a case s/he has never
seen, much less examined personally.
| Oh, well. Anyway, you should probably just remove that comment from
| your blog until we know more, which we never will anyway due to the
| coverup efforts that we're supposed to ignore until further notice.
what coverup efforts? i don't want you to ignore
coverup efforts but i would like to see some sort
of proof that such efforts are happening. so i'm
asking--are there coverup efforts? dox, please.
| Anything to make Monica happy.
and elle.
|I'm sure that what we've said so far
| will get each of us a condescending pat on the head from her,
unlike the mature, professional manner in which
you've addressed the issues?
|since
| she doesn't do irony at all. ;-)
and you guys don't do dox. :(
Eldon
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:47:43 -0800 (PST), Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com>
Please present your birth certificate along with notarized proof that
it is a genuine document. Oh, and I want to examine the wax seal on
Usenet, and then I will accept that you have dox that prove you
exist.
Then perhaps we can talk about having some kind of discussion, but I
doubt it. I really don't think you exist anyway, so how else do you
plan to prove you do? Whatever you try, it probably won't work, and I
was addressing Monica anyway. But she probably doesn't exist either,
so she needs to prove she exists before you have any credibility to
begin with.
Capiche? I thought not, so forget it.
InCognito
> Learn about Jeremy Perkins:http://www.scientomogy.com/jeremy_perkins.php
>
> Learn about Lisa McPherson:http://www.lisamcpherson.org
>
>
> "As an R.N. and Legal Nurse Consultant familiar with protocols for
> managing seizure disorders, I can tell you that FIRST, it is
> Neurologists, not Neurosurgeons that manage medication regimens for
> patients with seizure disorders, like Jett. SECOND, the correct
> protocol for discontinuing a seizure drug is to first implement a NEW
> drug and get it up to therapeutic levels, and only after that, taper
> or discontinue the old drug. And THIRD, no practicing physician of any
> kind would make such an inappropriate recommendation for fear of being
> sued. If the parents do not file such a lawsuit, then these
> "Neurosurgeons" probably don't exist. Instead, withholding the
> depakote without medical advice was the parents' idea was the
> proximate cause of Jett's death. As a Guardian ad Litem I think it
> should be investigated. "
>
>
> --
> John Travolta Refused To Help His Son Jett - How Is This Not Child
>
> Boycott Valkyrie!
> Don't pay to see it! Don't support Tom Cruise supporting
> Scientology! Watch it here online streaming for free:http://www.boycottvalkyrie.com/watch_valkyrie_for_free.php
I know of 4 OT's who died of cancer. Two of them tried to handle it
with auditing, one at Flag and one at AO but failed. Another OT I
know had a mild heart attack and he started treating the condition
with vitamins and herbs. Six months after this he had a massive heart
attack and died. I think a number of CO$ members would rather die
than to take any drugs that could save their life. They want to get a
good clean start on their next life. In 40 years in Co$ I have never
met any of my old CO$ members who died and then came back in a new
body. Looks like it just can't be done.
kennethno...@gmail.com
Thanks for posting this. It would be interesting to know of all the
people who died in Scientology from the things that you speak of.
Sure, heart attacks and cancer are tough to prevent even with modern
medicine, but it sure beats the hell out of vitamins and auditing.
BTW - l.l.lipshitz is going to be asking you for dox on this so be
ready with those. Thanks.
--
Monica Pignotti
Without knowing all the facts about these 4 OT's cancer, it is
difficult to evaluate. What type of cancer did they have and in what
stage? For some types and stages of cancer there is no effective
medical treatment, for others there is, and for still others there is
medical treatment such as chemotherapy that would give them a slim
chance but make the quality of what life they have left, hell because
of the side effects. These are the kinds of decisions cancer patients
have to make. There are many cancer patients who were in the latter
situation who have never been in Scientology who decided, in
conjunction with their doctor and with their doctor's full approval,
to forego medical treatement that would, at best, extend their life
for a few months with a very poor quality. There are also some types
of cancer that are highly treatable with high rates of success. Again,
we don't know what the situation was with these 4 OTs. For many people
with cancer, there are no drugs that can save their lives; for others
there are and for yet others there are drugs that can manage the
cancer and keep them alive for years, but with heavy side effects and
a miserable quality of life. Whether someone wants to live that way
and fight hard against the cancer and their ultimate death, to the
very end, is a very personal decision and there are no right or wrong
answers. Some people decide to forego such medical treatment
especially if it has little chance of working and who can blame them?
As for alternative quackery, there are many people who turn to this
who have never had anything to do with Scientology. When modern
medicine doesn't have the answers, it is just too big of a temptation.
As for this "nurse consultant" if she is the professional she claims
to be, it is not ethical for her to be evaluating someone she has not
personally examined. Also, we do not know the details of what the
Travolta's tried or did not try. All we have is a very brief statement
from their lawyer to the press, yet people jump to all kinds of highly
unwarranted conclusions. I suppose now I'll get accused once again of
being OSA or "doing OSA's work" for pointing this out, but every once
in awhile I just can't resist coming back here and attempting to
reason with people, as futile as it usually turns out to be. I also
find it highly insensitive to accuse a grieving, devastated family of
trying to "hide" something when all they are doing is asking for some
privacy in their grieving process. And yes, contrary to the popular
myth here, Scientologists do indeed grieve. When I was a Scientology
auditor, I sat with many devastated, grieving Scientologists over
various losses. While they may have felt some relief after the
auditing session, just as many grieving people feel relief from
ordinary talk with a caring person, the auditing didn't cure their
grief and certainly didn't make them happy about the loss, nor is it
intended to do so. That is not to defend auditing, only to provide
some balance to this discussion.
Monica
l.l.lipshitz
wrote in <e6895138-0947-47c3...@p36g2000prp.googlegroups.com>:
[...]
| Please present your birth certificate along with notarized proof that
| it is a genuine document. Oh, and I want to examine the wax seal on
| Usenet, and then I will accept that you have dox that prove you
| exist.
please explain how i have any bearing on whether
you have factual information about jett's medical
condition and treatment.
your non-confront is as good as any scnist's....
| Then perhaps we can talk about having some kind of discussion, but I
| doubt it. I really don't think you exist anyway, so how else do you
| plan to prove you do? Whatever you try, it probably won't work,
of course it won't. your mind is closed to any kind
of discussion, all you want is agreement.
|and I
| was addressing Monica anyway.
but you replied to me.
|But she probably doesn't exist either,
| so she needs to prove she exists before you have any credibility to
| begin with.
|
| Capiche? I thought not, so forget it.
you're right, i don't understand what the big
fucking problem is. i'm not asking for absolute
proof, beyond the shadow of any doubt. but i would
like to have some idea about whether assertions are
reasonable or some wild flight of fancy. take, for
instance, 'jett has been treated with nothing but
vitamins, niacin, and exercise for the last 2 yrs'.
how does noisewater know that?? who said it? where
did he read it? give me the goddamned url so i can
read it, too! maybe then i'll stop asking questions.
maybe then i might even <gasp!> agree!.
but no, it's a crime to question critics and express
doubt about their sources. always attack, never
defend. ridicule, dodge, lol. dance the 'diversion
tarantella'. we don't need no steenkin' facts as
long as we dis scn.
what is so damned scary about facts that you feel
compelled to avoid them? when did supporting your
arguments become unacceptable? will scn be any less
evil if jett actually was on other anti-seizure meds?
l.l.lipshitz
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in
<65870f14-b733-4c47...@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com>:
| On Jan 22, 8:16 pm, InCognito <spoozm...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
| > I know of 4 OT's who died of cancer. Two of them tried to handle it
| > with auditing, one at Flag and one at AO but failed. Another OT I
| > know had a mild heart attack and he started treating the condition
| > with vitamins and herbs. Six months after this he had a massive heart
| > attack and died. I think a number of CO$ members would rather die
| > than to take any drugs that could save their life. They want to get a
| > good clean start on their next life. In 40 years in Co$ I have never
| > met any of my old CO$ members who died and then came back in a new
| > body. Looks like it just can't be done.
|
|
| Thanks for posting this. It would be interesting to know of all the
| people who died in Scientology from the things that you speak of.
| Sure, heart attacks and cancer are tough to prevent even with modern
| medicine, but it sure beats the hell out of vitamins and auditing.
|
|
| BTW - l.l.lipshitz is going to be asking you for dox on this so be
| ready with those. Thanks.
lol. i'm not and i bet you can't tell me why.
realpch
<snip>
People get caught up in speculation, and forget that that's what they
are doing. It seems hard for people to accept that they just don't know
for sure about something, though it's a common feature of life!
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
kennethno...@gmail.com
> People get caught up in speculation, and forget that that's what they
> are doing. It seems hard for people to accept that they just don't know
> for sure about something, though it's a common feature of life!
I like this.
Though, you're forgetting the fact that a lot of the people you're
referring to DO realize what they are doing, they just like to mix it
up a little and get the word out there the best that they can.
J Swif from OCMB is great with this. He only posts facts.... but he
does post a lot of articles that are also extremely speculative, but
it's obvious to see when he's doing this. He's just trying to get the
board to think. Also, some of his speculations have come true.
Amazing stuff!
Eldon
> On Jan 23, 11:03 am, realpch <real...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > People get caught up in speculation, and forget that that's what they
> > are doing. It seems hard for people to accept that they just don't know
> > for sure about something, though it's a common feature of life!
>
> I like this.
>
> Though, you're forgetting the fact that a lot of the people you're
> referring to DO realize what they are doing, they just like to mix it
> up a little and get the word out there the best that they can.
>
> J Swif from OCMB is great with this. He only posts facts.... but he
> does post a lot of articles that are also extremely speculative, but
> it's obvious to see when he's doing this. He's just trying to get the
> board to think. Also, some of his speculations have come true.
> Amazing stuff!
Paul,
You would do well to learn some dodgy journalistic ways of stating
speculations. A main one is just to quote someone else's speculation
-- or even your own. "He was said to be....."
Another is to use a question: "Did Jett Travolta die for lack of
proper medical care like LIsa McPherson?" (Nobody willl disagree that
she did.)
That way, you aren't stating probability as fact or directly engaging
in stupid name-calling as you did when you called Peter Alexander "a
little bitch" and "a big pussy" on your website and Wikipedia article.
The latter sounds especially juvenile because of its context.
kennethno...@gmail.com
Thanks Eldon for the tip. I'll use that.
My juvenile comments are not anywhere except Wikipedia. They were
only placed there as a joke..... but are somehow still there. ??
Maybe the Wikipedia editors agree with what I wrote lol
Where is Android Cat to clean up my Wikipedia mess when you need
him?
Geez, if that nonsense is still there in a few hours I'll have to
erase it myself lol
Article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_Polish
Eldon
Nah, they just haven't noticed it. The trouble is that one simply does
not put jokes in Wikipedia, ever. Do you see any jokes in, say, the
Encyclopedia Britannia? On your website, you can get away with snide,
satirical stuff as long as people (eventually) get it.
However, don't expect Monica and Elle to recognize the difference. No
matter how something is worded, they will most likely continue to
stamp their feet like 10-year-old girls on a grade school playground,
repeating over and over:
"Prove it!"
"Prove it!"
"Prove it!"
kennethno...@gmail.com
Well I guess because no one cares, or everyone agrees with it.... I
have to be the one to remove it. SO, it's gone.... for now, unless
someone else wants to add it lol
Monica Pignotti
So now the death of Jett Travolta is a joke to you? How low will you
go, Eldon? Would you care to elaborate on what you find funny? Sorry,
but I just don't have that kind of "sense of humor". I laugh at
things that are funny, not tragedies like this one. I have seen plenty
of stupidly worded statements here that were meant very seriously so
yes, it is very difficult to tell the difference between satire and
some of the idiotic comments made by people such as yourself, Eldon.
You are a walking satire.
Eldon
Well, I do find your delusional assumptions somewhat amusing. Guess
why.
Hint: My allusion to satire had nothing to do with the death of Jett
Travolta, which I don't find funny. I was talking about Paul's
description of Peter Alexander a "big pussy" in a Wikipedia article
because Peter didn't release The Profit in violation of a court
injunction.
InCognito
What I was saying is these 4 OT's are just an example of how some
Scientologist handle this disease. Some actually think auditing can
save them. Of these 4 I only know of one who tried a standard medical
approach (kimo) to fight the cancer and he did this way to late. Once
at a major event in LA a high ranking Scientologist (I forgot her
name) told the audience of how a Scientologist with cancer came to
Flag and 6 weeks later the cancer went into remission. It was like
she was saying, “If you have cancer come to Flag we can handle it.”
Also Hubbard wrote that smoking doesn’t cause cancer and 1 of the 4
that died was a very heavy smoker but I can’t say for sure whether the
smoking caused the cancer. The saddest one I know was a girl I had
known for many years but I could see the cancer was eating up her
body, she was very thin but there she was sitting at a table in the
COS (AO) writing a check for around $7,000 to get another auditing
session. She was dead a month later.
l.l.lipshitz
wrote in <497A0666...@aol.com>:
[...]
| People get caught up in speculation, and forget that that's what they
| are doing. It seems hard for people to accept that they just don't know
| for sure about something, though it's a common feature of life!
yeah, you're right, 'everybody does it'. not a
reason to continue doing it but it's true, everybody
does it.
the vigor with which this stupidity is defended
gives me a headache.
--
-elle
--------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
stupidity is the deliberate cultivation of ignorance -wg
Eldon
Yeah, I remember people who tried desperately to "find the SP" that
was causing cancer or some other serious illness. Of course, if they
hadn't progressed as far as OT III, the SP by definition had to be
someone incarnate that they knew, whether in their current lifetime or
a past one.
If they were at or past the OT III level, they were allowed to know
that it might be a body thetan or cluster. Same goes for epilepsy,
which is why they told Tory to stop taking her medication.
Either way, it's total quackery, every bit as dangerous and
destructive as Hulda Clark's "zapper" scam.
kennethno...@gmail.com
lol Monica Pignotti & Scientology
I think this says a lot about how her superior OT intelligence
comprehends reading words of the English language.
realpch
I try to keep my speculation labeled as speculation, but it does have a
way of weasling into the brain as fact. Perhaps such terms as "I heard
that" or "It has been said" are not sufficient. My friends and family
have a way of alerting me when I've done this in private life, I find.
Crow, with maybe some horseradish, isn't bad at all.
For those who don't know how to do it, just start your acknowledgement
with, "Oh!..." and fill in as necessary thereafter.
: D
Ball of Fluff
"John Dorsay" <restim...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gl4til$6b1$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
>> <kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>>> What are you talking about? Jett was taken off the Depakote that was
>>> working for him TWO YEARS prior to all of this.
>>>
>>> "Scientology love" for his Grand Mal Seizures. This consisted of
>>> vitamins, niacin, and exercise.
>>
>>
>> supposition.
>
> Suppositions, facts, opinions, proofs. What's the difference?
> Aren't they interchangeable these days?
>
>
>
> John
>
> --
>
I think so. I think a lot of the things said about the Travoltas are
irresponsible. I don't see a problem with speculating as to whether or not
the Travolta's religion caused or hastened Jett's death, but some of the
shit that has been written in this thread has been way over the top eg:
"Scientology killed Jett. His parents wanted him dead." etc.
C
Ball of Fluff
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6f5ecd2a-aff1-48e7...@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 21, 9:49 am, "l.l.lipshitz" <elk...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> I'm not saying I know the answers, no one does at this point besides
> the Travolta's and maybe the cops, especially the ones who were
> looking for answers with Jett's caretaker/photographer. I'm just
> speculating on what's been reported along with Scientology's treatment
> for people with mental illnesses.
>
> We know Jett was on Depakote (a drug that works for seizures) two
> years ago. For some reason he was pulled off of it. I imagine if he
> would have been put on one of the other hundred's of drugs out there
> for seizures, that would have been reported but it wasn't. So, it's
> safe to say that for the last two years Jett's been on nothing except
> Scientology's own special cure for people with mental illnesses, and
> that's exercise and vitamins.
>
> So, ask for "dox" again lol it's funny
So, then, your accusation that CofS and Jett's parents deliberately murdered
him has no foundation. Yet it was presented as fact and not as speculation.
C
Ball of Fluff
"InCognito" <spoo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1703e531-2434-44ab...@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> I know of 4 OT's who died of cancer. Two of them tried to handle it
> with auditing, one at Flag and one at AO but failed. Another OT I
> know had a mild heart attack and he started treating the condition
> with vitamins and herbs. Six months after this he had a massive heart
> attack and died. I think a number of CO$ members would rather die
> than to take any drugs that could save their life. They want to get a
> good clean start on their next life. In 40 years in Co$ I have never
> met any of my old CO$ members who died and then came back in a new
> body. Looks like it just can't be done.
I had two surgeries while still in CofS. Nobody said boo about it. But, one
of the reasons many Scn'ists back burner or don't receive medical treatment
is that many of them (public) are self employed and may not have the
benefits. And many others are staff. The Sea Org is extremely grudging about
medical care. I have heard of SO members who've gone to the hospital but I
think a lot of them don't get admitted to such when they need to and when
they do, it was sometimes delayed too long.
I knew an OT who had cancer who handled it with a mixture of standard
medical cancer treatment and auditing. Not just one or the other. The person
doesn't have cancer now. It may have been the medical treatment that cured
her, sure, and she knows that. But this does show that Scn'ists who get
cancer can and sometimes do obtain medical treatment.
In a thread on ESMB, someone talked about auditing a Scn kid who said she
had come back. She said exactly who she was in her previous life and what
her training and case level was. I've talked to others, too, who could
remember.
C
Ball of Fluff
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:78d91ec1-9ac6-4b65...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> lol Monica Pignotti & Scientology
>
> I think this says a lot about how her superior OT intelligence
> comprehends reading words of the English language.
>
Monica is an ex Scientologist. And she's helped get people out of the cult.
Please do not jump on the let's bash Monica bandwagon.
C
kennethno...@gmail.com
wrote:
> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Where do I write that Jett's parents deliberately killed him ?? lol
kennethno...@gmail.com
wrote:
> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Monica is not a Scientologist??
So is she in the Freezone? Has she helped Scientologists out of the
cult and into another one?
l.l.lipshitz
<kennethno...@gmail.com> wrote in
<db38898c-3691-4b2e...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>:
[...]
| Where do I write that Jett's parents deliberately killed him ?? lol
'The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family
deliberately killed Jett Travolta.'
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/290ac991e38ff4d1>
-elle
--------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
i have nothing but respect for you,
and not much of that. -gm
kennethno...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:39:52 -0800 (PST), kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com
> <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <db38898c-3691-4b2e-b088-e9ebfc75a...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>:
>
> [...]
>
> | Where do I write that Jett's parents deliberately killed him ?? lol
>
> 'The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family
> deliberately killed Jett Travolta.'
>
>
> -elle
> --------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
> i have nothing but respect for you,
> and not much of that. -gm
Ah, that's taken out of context. Of course they loved him and didn't
want anything bad to happen to him.
I just think that the Travolta's, by practicing Scientology tech
instead of giving him normal medication, were killing him.
I guess deliberate is the wrong word. I'll have to change that.
Ball of Fluff
> On Jan 25, 11:00 am, "Ball ofFluff" <getoffmy...@fluffentology.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:78d91ec1-9ac6-4b65...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > lol Monica Pignotti & Scientology
>
> > > I think this says a lot about how her superior OT intelligence
> > > comprehends reading words of the English language.
>
> > Monica is an ex Scientologist. And she's helped get people out of the cult.
>
> > Please do not jump on the let's bash Monica bandwagon.
>
> > C
>
> >www.claireswazey.com
>
> Monica is not a Scientologist??
>
> So is she in the Freezone? Has she helped Scientologists out of the
> cult and into another one?
>
Monica is neither a Scientologist or a Freezoner.
And, no, the Freezone is not a cult. But in any event, Monica does not
help people out of one cult and into another.
Perhaps you can find another witch hunt if you look rilly rilly
hard...
C
Ball of Fluff
> On Jan 26, 6:29 am, "l.l.lipshitz" <elk...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:39:52 -0800 (PST), kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com
> > <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > <db38898c-3691-4b2e-b088-e9ebfc75a...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > [...]
>
> > | Where do I write that Jett's parents deliberately killed him ?? lol
>
> > 'The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family
> > deliberately killed Jett Travolta.'
>
> > <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/290ac991e...>
>
> > -elle
> > --------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
> > i have nothing but respect for you,
> > and not much of that. -gm
>
> Ah, that's taken out of context. Of course they loved him and didn't
> want anything bad to happen to him.
>
> I just think that the Travolta's, by practicing Scientology tech
> instead of giving him normal medication, were killing him.
>
> I guess deliberate is the wrong word. I'll have to change that.
>
> --
>
Dude, you said they deliberately killed him. That's the context.
Elle..keep on goin' wid yo bad self, you rock!!
C
Eldon
I didn't remember if he literally said that or not.
Paul, assuming you did say that (which looks very likely), shame on
you! You need to apologize. I'm sure you may not have remembered
saying it, but you can't just LOL this kind of thing away. Reality
does intervene on that sort of thing.
I think you have many positive attitudes and attributes, and enough
intelligence to do some self-examination. I also think it's time you
grew up. Sometimes you act like an early adolescent who hasn't yet
leaned to masturbate properly.
kennethno...@gmail.com
They had me thinking I wrote that on my Blog or website, it was just
written here on ARS at the bottom of some long ranting.
Obviously the Travolta's didn't intentionally kill him. It looks like
from all the media comments and pictures they loved him very much.
And obviously Scientology didn't deliberately kill him, that is one
less client.
If the Travolta's didn't have him on seizure medication after the
depakote, that could be considered by some child abuse.... but not
intentional or deliberate. That's just being brain fucked by a cult.
Eldon
It doesn't matter where "they" thought you wrote it, or where you
thought you wrote it.
If you wrote it, YOU WROTE IT, so stop making excuses about why you
never learned to masturbate properly. Silly little boy.
Just say you fucked up and apologize. Make an effort not to shoot your
mouth off prematurely. That used to be called a premature ejaculation,
speech-wise.
>
> Obviously the Travolta's didn't intentionally kill him. It looks like
> from all the media comments and pictures they loved him very much.
> And obviously Scientology didn't deliberately kill him, that is one
> less client.
I don't think Scientology would have wanted him as a PC, because he
wasn't at all fixable. Autism is a difficult condition to deal with,
because they tend to be intelligent and literal minded, even when
they're flapping their hands or cutting themselves. You certainly
can't audit them.
>
> If the Travolta's didn't have him on seizure medication after the
> depakote, that could be considered by some child abuse.... but not
> intentional or deliberate.
The technical term is "child neglect": It means not doing what you are
required to do as a parent, guardian or caretaker.
kennethno...@gmail.com
Who should I apologize to? You? ARS? The Travolta's? Scientology?
I didn't mean to write it, but here is what I will say:
I think that if the Travolta's would never have been involved with
Scientology in the first place, Jett would still be alive today.
That is what I'm changing my statement to :)
kennethno...@gmail.com
The Travolta's refused to give him medical help..... says the
extortionists.
The Travolta's had an issue about where he should be treated.... says
Travolta's lawyer.
The Nassau Guardian has published a story saying it's a "refusal to
transport" document. The paper cites the Senior Assistant Commissioner
of Police Marvin Dames, who says the document "is signed by a party
when refusing, for example, emergency medical services from trained
personnel."
http://www.tmz.com/2009/01/27/mystery-document-in-travolta-case-revealed/
Wow. What if my fucked up statement, that the Travolta's deliberately
killed Jett, turns out to be true?
Eldon
You would apologize to the readers of ARS for making a highly
speculative statement as if it were fact. Next time, you need to make
it clear when something is said hypothetically.
>
> I didn't mean to write it, but here is what I will say:
>
> I think that if the Travolta's would never have been involved with
> Scientology in the first place, Jett would still be alive today.
>
> That is what I'm changing my statement to :)
That sounds probable, since it turns out they planned to fly him to
Florida instead of taking him to the nearest hospital. That does sound
reminiscent of the Lisa McPherson case, doesn't it?
Ball of Fluff
I thought the same thing, but keep in mind, they were in the Bahamas
and look what happened to them re the extortion plot. It seems that
the Travoltas had good reason to mistrust anyone or anything from that
area.
C
Ball of Fluff
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:39:52 -0800 (PST), kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com
> > <kennethnoisewat...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > <db38898c-3691-4b2e-b088-e9ebfc75a...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > [...]
>
> > | Where do I write that Jett's parents deliberately killed him ?? lol
>
> > 'The "Church" of Scientology and the Travolta family
> > deliberately killed Jett Travolta.'
>
> > <http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/290ac991e...>
>
> > -elle
> > --------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
> > i have nothing but respect for you,
> > and not much of that. -gm
>
> Ah, that's taken out of context. Of course they loved him and didn't
> want anything bad to happen to him.
>
> I just think that the Travolta's, by practicing Scientology tech
> instead of giving him normal medication, were killing him.
>
And how do you know they were practicing Scn tech instead of giving
him normal medicine?
you don't.
You seem to be prone to making assumptions about Scn families and
medical care.
C
Ball of Fluff
Eldon
If they perceived the Bahamas as that sinister, what were they doing
buying a vacation home there in the first place? Why not Bermuda or
Costa Rica? Anyway, it's nonsense. The Bahamas may have some sleazy
politics, but it's not primitive in terms of medical care, and
doesn't want bad PR.
>
> C
>
> www.claireswazey.com
Ball of Fluff
I'd have no qualms about vacationing in a place like that but I
wouldn't actually trust anyone in a third world country which, once
you get away from the resorts, is exactly what the Bahamas, Jamaica,
Aruba - and places like that actually are.
C