Although there are some inaccuracies in the articles here and there, they do fairly accurately cover at least a bit of what I told them at the event about the crimes and abuses in organized scientology at the top. I told them about witnessing David Miscavige beating others and seeing how he has perjured himself in courts, the lies behind the corporate structure and much more.
Before I comment further on what was mentioned in the articles I wanted to state how incredibly impressed I was with the anonymous folks who were there. What an incredible group of up-beat, intelligent, fun, energetic and caring folks! I truly felt proud of them and excited to be there on this historic occasion.
One reporter asked me if I did not think it was wrong for anonymous to criticize or otherwise make fun of a religion and was I not worried that anonymous was setting themselves up as some "judge" of religions, poised to attack anything with which they disagreed. I told him to look at their signs and listen to what they were saying. They were not focused at all on the above. Instead they stood for putting an end to lies, family destruction, financial and other fraud and many other abuses carried out by organized scientology. I told the reporter I was proud to stand there with anonymous who had the courage and decency to stand up against these injustices.
Now, let's look at the "brilliant counter attack" against anonymous by organized scientology through their representative there. As per one of the above articles they say:
1) Gerard Renna, board member of the Church of Scientology in Boston, said while Anonymous participates in "illegal activities," the church offers tutoring and anti-crime programs; and
2) Gerard Renna (about anonymous): "They are insidious, they are treacherous," he said. "This is a dangerous group. They are going to lessen freedom here. We advocate total freedom."
OMG where do you even START with that??? Those in organized scientology have been guilty of countless crimes for decades from their founder on down. These people from anonymous standing on the street of Boston have been guilty of NO crimes.
The part where Gerard says they (organized scientology) "advocate total freedom" literately made me gag thinking of how they are built on such things as disconnection, fair game, squashing all other opinions, silencing "critics", penal camps for their own staff, financial destruction of the many and on and on with literally thousands of examples exposed all over the internet.
At this moment, all organized scientology can do in response to anonymous is lie.
As for Gerard saying in one of the above linked articles that I am lying about the abuses I mentioned in organized scientology and maybe I want my "10 minutes of fame", all I can say is that statement is as true and relevant as the others listed above re scientology advocating total freedom and offering anti-crime programs.
Gerard my ex old friend I can guarantee you one thing about this. And that is the truth WILL be exposed and proven widely because it is the right and just thing to do.
Furthermore I make this public offering to Gerard: I am willing to go on TV, radio, in front of reporters or otherwise in a public forum to discuss and debate organized scientology with you and I will specifically cover details of everything I mentioned to the reporter to whom you said I was a liar. You can bring up whatever you want to try to prove what you said about me. Here's your chance Gerard to also talk about organized scientology's "anti crime" programs and how it advocates "total freedom".
And, I promise to only cover those things for which I have first hand information.
I have always considered you a decent person and friend Gerard and have even honored your request for me not to speak about our telephone conversation in the fall of 2006 when we talked about Miscavige et al. I am still willing to leave out personal, private things you shared and didn't want repeated and will do so. But that does not include how, after I started posting pointing out abuses within organized scientology, you tried to contact my family to get them to disconnect and how you told me you were going to contact my scientologist employer to "handle me" only to find out I no longer worked for him.
Maybe Gerard we should talk about the time when I was off staff and a public scientologist and you called me and asked me to be part of dirty trick operation against Bob Minton and Stacey Young to try to embarrass them at his farmhouse even though you knew that some of what you were going to bring up against them was either false or unproven. Do you remember how I told you I would not take part in that and how crazy you were to do it? Do you remember the next week when you called me and told me how it blew up, a shot was fired, the police were called and I was right all along?
Do you consider the dirty tricks you have played as a former member of the guardian's office and a current member of the Department of Special Affairs, under OSA, part of what your "church" in Boston does to "advocate total freedom"?
Or perhaps should we talk about that incredibly sad time when a young man, a scientologist in Massachusetts, shot himself in the head and killed himself. How he wrote a suicide note just before that asking for a scientology funeral? Do you remember? I do. Do you remember how incredibly distraught his parents were as they went to your wonderful Boston org "church" for help and your "church" REFUSED to even do the scientology funeral as the parents did not have the money to pay for it????? Do you remember how I felt so bad for the parents when Boston org refused them that I went to a costume store, bought a minister's collar and went and did the scientology funeral myself to try to do anything to get those parents some relief when Boston org was "too busy" as there was no money in it?
Now that I think about it, perhaps Gerard we need to just talk about those kind of things as they are something you know about.
You were not there when L Ron Hubbard ordered the spitting on former scientology Sea Org executives who were held under guard and abused at the international headquarters.
You were not there when Miscavige punched, slapped and choked innocent staff.
You were not there when Miscavige used the International Finance police to extort, abuse, financially destroy and humiliate countless others.
You did not have in your hands the Hubbard orders about all this and watch Miscavige lie to, cheat, scream at and abuse countless others as part of taking over organized scientology.
You were not there when Miscavige funneled millions to Hubbard threatening to strangle people who would not help to do so. You were not involved when Hubbard gave orders to take over Clearwater, lie and deceive and fair game any opponents.
You were not there when Hubbard ordered selected staff to cover up his controls of organized scientology and to protect the money being funneled to him while he put out statements to his followers that he took no money from scientology.
You were not there when Miscavige instituted "gang bang sec checks" to abuse others and demanded heads on a pike of those who opposed his takeover of scientology.
You are not in any way even aware of what IMHO are scores of pages of perjury by Miscavige in courts though two decades as he made one lie after another about the controls in scientology and how the management and corporate changes evolved in the 80s. Here is a link to one small example of what I mean about this perjury Gerard:
You were not there when David Miscavige used personal and confidential information from auditing files of others to humiliate them.
I however was there Gerard and have seen all that personally.
So, I guess you really have nothing to say about this except to repeat the lies fed to you by your masters at OSA which are that I am lying.
Well the world is finding out and will be finding out much more as more and more people who WERE THERE speak out. Maybe you will believe it when 20 of us tell this story Gerard.
Anyway Gerard if you want our "debate" could just be on overall broad scientology topics like human rights, "total freedom" and the like. You can give all the PR lines developed by OSA and approved by Miscavige. For my part I'll just list what Hubbard and Miscavige ACTUALLY said and did privately on these topics.
> Although there are some inaccuracies in the articles here and there, > they do fairly accurately cover at least a bit of what I told them at > the event about the crimes and abuses in organized scientology at the > top. I told them about witnessing David Miscavige beating others and > seeing how he has perjured himself in courts, the lies behind the > corporate structure and much more.
> Before I comment further on what was mentioned in the articles I > wanted to state how incredibly impressed I was with the anonymous > folks who were there. What an incredible group of up-beat, > intelligent, fun, energetic and caring folks! I truly felt proud of > them and excited to be there on this historic occasion.
> One reporter asked me if I did not think it was wrong for anonymous to > criticize or otherwise make fun of a religion and was I not worried > that anonymous was setting themselves up as some "judge" of religions, > poised to attack anything with which they disagreed. I told him to > look at their signs and listen to what they were saying. They were not > focused at all on the above. Instead they stood for putting an end to > lies, family destruction, financial and other fraud and many other > abuses carried out by organized scientology. I told the reporter I was > proud to stand there with anonymous who had the courage and decency to > stand up against these injustices.
> Now, let's look at the "brilliant counter attack" against anonymous by > organized scientology through their representative there. As per one > of the above articles they say:
> 1) Gerard Renna, board member of the Church of Scientology in Boston, > said while Anonymous participates in "illegal activities," the church > offers tutoring and anti-crime programs; and
> 2) Gerard Renna (about anonymous): "They are insidious, they are > treacherous," he said. "This is a dangerous group. They are going to > lessen freedom here. We advocate total freedom."
> OMG where do you even START with that??? Those in organized > scientology have been guilty of countless crimes for decades from > their founder on down. These people from anonymous standing on the > street of Boston have been guilty of NO crimes.
> The part where Gerard says they (organized scientology) "advocate > total freedom" literately made me gag thinking of how they are built > on such things as disconnection, fair game, squashing all other > opinions, silencing "critics", penal camps for their own staff, > financial destruction of the many and on and on with literally > thousands of examples exposed all over the internet.
> At this moment, all organized scientology can do in response to > anonymous is lie.
> As for Gerard saying in one of the above linked articles that I am > lying about the abuses I mentioned in organized scientology and maybe > I want my "10 minutes of fame", all I can say is that statement is as > true and relevant as the others listed above re scientology advocating > total freedom and offering anti-crime programs.
> Gerard my ex old friend I can guarantee you one thing about this. And > that is the truth WILL be exposed and proven widely because it is the > right and just thing to do.
> Furthermore I make this public offering to Gerard: I am willing to go > on TV, radio, in front of reporters or otherwise in a public forum to > discuss and debate organized scientology with you and I will > specifically cover details of everything I mentioned to the reporter > to whom you said I was a liar. You can bring up whatever you want to > try to prove what you said about me. Here's your chance Gerard to also > talk about organized scientology's "anti crime" programs and how it > advocates "total freedom".
> And, I promise to only cover those things for which I have first hand > information.
> I have always considered you a decent person and friend Gerard and > have even honored your request for me not to speak about our telephone > conversation in the fall of 2006 when we talked about Miscavige et al. > I am still willing to leave out personal, private things you shared > and didn't want repeated and will do so. But that does not include > how, after I started posting pointing out abuses within organized > scientology, you tried to contact my family to get them to disconnect > and how you told me you were going to contact my scientologist > employer to "handle me" only to find out I no longer worked for him.
> Maybe Gerard we should talk about the time when I was off staff and a > public scientologist and you called me and asked me to be part of > dirty trick operation against Bob Minton and Stacey Young to try to > embarrass them at his farmhouse even though you knew that some of what > you were going to bring up against them was either false or unproven. > Do you remember how I told you I would not take part in that and how > crazy you were to do it? Do you remember the next week when you called > me and told me how it blew up, a shot was fired, the police were > called and I was right all along?
> Do you consider the dirty tricks you have played as a former member of > the guardian's office and a current member of the Department of > Special Affairs, under OSA, part of what your "church" in Boston does > to "advocate total freedom"?
> Or perhaps should we talk about that incredibly sad time when a young > man, a scientologist in Massachusetts, shot himself in the head and > killed himself. How he wrote a suicide note just before that asking > for a scientology funeral? Do you remember? I do. Do you remember how > incredibly distraught his parents were as they went to your wonderful > Boston org "church" for help and your "church" REFUSED to even do the > scientology funeral as the parents did not have the money to pay for > it????? Do you remember how I felt so bad for the parents when Boston > org refused them that I went to a costume store, bought a minister's > collar and went and did the scientology funeral myself to try to do > anything to get those parents some relief when Boston org was "too > busy" as there was no money in it?
> Now that I think about it, perhaps Gerard we need to just talk about > those kind of things as they are something you know about.
> You were not there when L Ron Hubbard ordered the spitting on former > scientology Sea Org executives who were held under guard and abused at > the international headquarters.
> You were not there when Miscavige punched, slapped and choked innocent > staff.
> You were not there when Miscavige used the International Finance > police to extort, abuse, financially destroy and humiliate countless > others.
> You did not have in your hands the Hubbard orders about all this and > watch Miscavige lie to, cheat, scream at and abuse countless others as > part of taking over organized scientology.
> You were not there when Miscavige funneled millions to Hubbard > threatening to strangle people who would not help to do so. > You were not involved when Hubbard gave orders to take over > Clearwater, lie and deceive and fair game any opponents.
> You were not there when Hubbard ordered selected staff to cover up his > controls of organized scientology and to protect the money being > funneled to him while he put out statements to his followers that he > took no money from scientology.
> You were not there when Miscavige instituted "gang bang sec checks" to > abuse others and demanded heads on a pike of those who opposed his > takeover of scientology.
> You are not in any way even aware of what IMHO are scores of pages of > perjury by Miscavige in courts though two decades as he made one lie > after another about the controls in scientology and how the management > and corporate changes evolved in the 80s. Here is a link to one small > example of what I mean about this perjury Gerard:
> You were not there when David Miscavige used personal and confidential > information from auditing files of others to humiliate them.
> I however was there Gerard and have seen all that personally.
> So, I guess you really have nothing to say about this except to repeat > the lies fed to you by your masters at OSA which are that I am lying.
> Well the world is finding out and will be finding out much more as > more and more people who WERE THERE speak out. Maybe you will believe > it when 20 of us tell this story Gerard.
> Anyway Gerard if you want our "debate" could just be on overall broad > scientology topics like human rights, "total freedom" and the like. > You can give all the PR lines developed by OSA and approved by > Miscavige. For my part I'll just list what Hubbard and Miscavige > ACTUALLY said and did privately on these topics.
> Are we on??
> Larry Brennan - SME
A truly superb posting, Larry.!! Michael Pattinson
> Although there are some inaccuracies in the articles here and there, > they do fairly accurately cover at least a bit of what I told them at > the event about the crimes and abuses in organized scientology at the > top. I told them about witnessing David Miscavige beating others and > seeing how he has perjured himself in courts, the lies behind the > corporate structure and much more.
> Before I comment further on what was mentioned in the articles I > wanted to state how incredibly impressed I was with the anonymous > folks who were there. What an incredible group of up-beat, > intelligent, fun, energetic and caring folks! I truly felt proud of > them and excited to be there on this historic occasion.
> One reporter asked me if I did not think it was wrong for anonymous to > criticize or otherwise make fun of a religion and was I not worried > that anonymous was setting themselves up as some "judge" of religions, > poised to attack anything with which they disagreed. I told him to > look at their signs and listen to what they were saying. They were not > focused at all on the above. Instead they stood for putting an end to > lies, family destruction, financial and other fraud and many other > abuses carried out by organized scientology. I told the reporter I was > proud to stand there with anonymous who had the courage and decency to > stand up against these injustices.
> Now, let's look at the "brilliant counter attack" against anonymous by > organized scientology through their representative there. As per one > of the above articles they say:
> 1) Gerard Renna, board member of the Church of Scientology in Boston, > said while Anonymous participates in "illegal activities," the church > offers tutoring and anti-crime programs; and
> 2) Gerard Renna (about anonymous): "They are insidious, they are > treacherous," he said. "This is a dangerous group. They are going to > lessen freedom here. We advocate total freedom."
> OMG where do you even START with that??? Those in organized > scientology have been guilty of countless crimes for decades from > their founder on down. These people from anonymous standing on the > street of Boston have been guilty of NO crimes.
> The part where Gerard says they (organized scientology) "advocate > total freedom" literately made me gag thinking of how they are built > on such things as disconnection, fair game, squashing all other > opinions, silencing "critics", penal camps for their own staff, > financial destruction of the many and on and on with literally > thousands of examples exposed all over the internet.
> At this moment, all organized scientology can do in response to > anonymous is lie.
> As for Gerard saying in one of the above linked articles that I am > lying about the abuses I mentioned in organized scientology and maybe > I want my "10 minutes of fame", all I can say is that statement is as > true and relevant as the others listed above re scientology advocating > total freedom and offering anti-crime programs.
> Gerard my ex old friend I can guarantee you one thing about this. And > that is the truth WILL be exposed and proven widely because it is the > right and just thing to do.
> Furthermore I make this public offering to Gerard: I am willing to go > on TV, radio, in front of reporters or otherwise in a public forum to > discuss and debate organized scientology with you and I will > specifically cover details of everything I mentioned to the reporter > to whom you said I was a liar. You can bring up whatever you want to > try to prove what you said about me. Here's your chance Gerard to also > talk about organized scientology's "anti crime" programs and how it > advocates "total freedom".
> And, I promise to only cover those things for which I have first hand > information.
> I have always considered you a decent person and friend Gerard and > have even honored your request for me not to speak about our telephone > conversation in the fall of 2006 when we talked about Miscavige et al. > I am still willing to leave out personal, private things you shared > and didn't want repeated and will do so. But that does not include > how, after I started posting pointing out abuses within organized > scientology, you tried to contact my family to get them to disconnect > and how you told me you were going to contact my scientologist > employer to "handle me" only to find out I no longer worked for him.
> Maybe Gerard we should talk about the time when I was off staff and a > public scientologist and you called me and asked me to be part of > dirty trick operation against Bob Minton and Stacey Young to try to > embarrass them at his farmhouse even though you knew that some of what > you were going to bring up against them was either false or unproven. > Do you remember how I told you I would not take part in that and how > crazy you were to do it? Do you remember the next week when you called > me and told me how it blew up, a shot was fired, the police were > called and I was right all along?
> Do you consider the dirty tricks you have played as a former member of > the guardian's office and a current member of the Department of > Special Affairs, under OSA, part of what your "church" in Boston does > to "advocate total freedom"?
> Or perhaps should we talk about that incredibly sad time when a young > man, a scientologist in Massachusetts, shot himself in the head and > killed himself. How he wrote a suicide note just before that asking > for a scientology funeral? Do you remember? I do. Do you remember how > incredibly distraught his parents were as they went to your wonderful > Boston org "church" for help and your "church" REFUSED to even do the > scientology funeral as the parents did not have the money to pay for > it????? Do you remember how I felt so bad for the parents when Boston > org refused them that I went to a costume store, bought a minister's > collar and went and did the scientology funeral myself to try to do > anything to get those parents some relief when Boston org was "too > busy" as there was no money in it?
> Now that I think about it, perhaps Gerard we need to just talk about > those kind of things as they are something you know about.
> You were not there when L Ron Hubbard ordered the spitting on former > scientology Sea Org executives who were held under guard and abused at > the international headquarters.
> You were not there when Miscavige punched, slapped and choked innocent > staff.
> You were not there when Miscavige used the International Finance > police to extort, abuse, financially destroy and humiliate countless > others.
> You did not have in your hands the Hubbard orders about all this and > watch Miscavige lie to, cheat, scream at and abuse countless others as > part of taking over organized scientology.
> You were not there when Miscavige funneled millions to Hubbard > threatening to strangle people who would not help to do so. > You were not involved when Hubbard gave orders to take over > Clearwater, lie and deceive and fair game any opponents.
> You were not there when Hubbard ordered selected staff to cover up his > controls of organized scientology and to protect the money being > funneled to him while he put out statements to his followers that he > took no money from scientology.
> You were not there when Miscavige instituted "gang bang sec checks" to > abuse others and demanded heads on a pike of those who opposed his > takeover of scientology.
> You are not in any way even aware of what IMHO are scores of pages of > perjury by Miscavige in courts though two decades as he made one lie > after another about the controls in scientology and how the management > and corporate changes evolved in the 80s. Here is a link to one small > example of what I mean about this perjury Gerard:
> You were not there when David Miscavige used personal and confidential > information from auditing files of others to humiliate them.
> I however was there Gerard and have seen all that personally.
> So, I guess you really have nothing to say about this except to repeat > the lies fed to you by your masters at OSA which are that I am lying.
> Well the world is finding out and will be finding out much more as > more and more people who WERE THERE speak out. Maybe you will believe > it when 20 of us tell this story Gerard.
> Anyway Gerard if you want our "debate" could just be on overall broad > scientology topics like human rights, "total freedom" and the like. > You can give all the PR lines developed by OSA and approved by > Miscavige. For my part I'll just list what Hubbard and Miscavige > ACTUALLY said and did privately on these topics.
> Are we on??
> Larry Brennan - SME
yes... a superb, world class posting...on the issues of what really happened.
Although there are some inaccuracies in the articles here and there, they do fairly accurately cover at least a bit of what I told them at the event about the crimes and abuses in organized scientology at the top. I told them about witnessing David Miscavige beating others and seeing how he has perjured himself in courts, the lies behind the corporate structure and much more.
Before I comment further on what was mentioned in the articles I wanted to state how incredibly impressed I was with the anonymous folks who were there. What an incredible group of up-beat, intelligent, fun, energetic and caring folks! I truly felt proud of them and excited to be there on this historic occasion.
One reporter asked me if I did not think it was wrong for anonymous to criticize or otherwise make fun of a religion and was I not worried that anonymous was setting themselves up as some "judge" of religions, poised to attack anything with which they disagreed. I told him to look at their signs and listen to what they were saying. They were not focused at all on the above. Instead they stood for putting an end to lies, family destruction, financial and other fraud and many other abuses carried out by organized scientology. I told the reporter I was proud to stand there with anonymous who had the courage and decency to stand up against these injustices.
Now, let's look at the "brilliant counter attack" against anonymous by organized scientology through their representative there. As per one of the above articles they say:
1) Gerard Renna, board member of the Church of Scientology in Boston, said while Anonymous participates in "illegal activities," the church offers tutoring and anti-crime programs; and
2) Gerard Renna (about anonymous): "They are insidious, they are treacherous," he said. "This is a dangerous group. They are going to lessen freedom here. We advocate total freedom."
OMG where do you even START with that??? Those in organized scientology have been guilty of countless crimes for decades from their founder on down. These people from anonymous standing on the street of Boston have been guilty of NO crimes.
The part where Gerard says they (organized scientology) "advocate total freedom" literately made me gag thinking of how they are built on such things as disconnection, fair game, squashing all other opinions, silencing "critics", penal camps for their own staff, financial destruction of the many and on and on with literally thousands of examples exposed all over the internet.
At this moment, all organized scientology can do in response to anonymous is lie.
As for Gerard saying in one of the above linked articles that I am lying about the abuses I mentioned in organized scientology and maybe I want my "10 minutes of fame", all I can say is that statement is as true and relevant as the others listed above re scientology advocating total freedom and offering anti-crime programs.
Gerard my ex old friend I can guarantee you one thing about this. And that is the truth WILL be exposed and proven widely because it is the right and just thing to do.
Furthermore I make this public offering to Gerard: I am willing to go on TV, radio, in front of reporters or otherwise in a public forum to discuss and debate organized scientology with you and I will specifically cover details of everything I mentioned to the reporter to whom you said I was a liar. You can bring up whatever you want to try to prove what you said about me. Here's your chance Gerard to also talk about organized scientology's "anti crime" programs and how it advocates "total freedom".
And, I promise to only cover those things for which I have first hand information.
I have always considered you a decent person and friend Gerard and have even honored your request for me not to speak about our telephone conversation in the fall of 2006 when we talked about Miscavige et al. I am still willing to leave out personal, private things you shared and didn't want repeated and will do so. But that does not include how, after I started posting pointing out abuses within organized scientology, you tried to contact my family to get them to disconnect and how you told me you were going to contact my scientologist employer to "handle me" only to find out I no longer worked for him.
Maybe Gerard we should talk about the time when I was off staff and a public scientologist and you called me and asked me to be part of dirty trick operation against Bob Minton and Stacey Young to try to embarrass them at his farmhouse even though you knew that some of what you were going to bring up against them was either false or unproven. Do you remember how I told you I would not take part in that and how crazy you were to do it? Do you remember the next week when you called me and told me how it blew up, a shot was fired, the police were called and I was right all along?
Do you consider the dirty tricks you have played as a former member of the guardian's office and a current member of the Department of Special Affairs, under OSA, part of what your "church" in Boston does to "advocate total freedom"?
Or perhaps should we talk about that incredibly sad time when a young man, a scientologist in Massachusetts, shot himself in the head and killed himself. How he wrote a suicide note just before that asking for a scientology funeral? Do you remember? I do. Do you remember how incredibly distraught his parents were as they went to your wonderful Boston org "church" for help and your "church" REFUSED to even do the scientology funeral as the parents did not have the money to pay for it????? Do you remember how I felt so bad for the parents when Boston org refused them that I went to a costume store, bought a minister's collar and went and did the scientology funeral myself to try to do anything to get those parents some relief when Boston org was "too busy" as there was no money in it?
Now that I think about it, perhaps Gerard we need to just talk about those kind of things as they are something you know about.
You were not there when L Ron Hubbard ordered the spitting on former scientology Sea Org executives who were held under guard and abused at the international headquarters.
You were not there when Miscavige punched, slapped and choked innocent staff.
You were not there when Miscavige used the International Finance police to extort, abuse, financially destroy and humiliate countless others.
You did not have in your hands the Hubbard orders about all this and watch Miscavige lie to, cheat, scream at and abuse countless others as part of taking over organized scientology.
You were not there when Miscavige funneled millions to Hubbard threatening to strangle people who would not help to do so. You were not involved when Hubbard gave orders to take over Clearwater, lie and deceive and fair game any opponents.
You were not there when Hubbard ordered selected staff to cover up his controls of organized scientology and to protect the money being funneled to him while he put out statements to his followers that he took no money from scientology.
You were not there when Miscavige instituted "gang bang sec checks" to abuse others and demanded heads on a pike of those who opposed his takeover of scientology.
You are not in any way even aware of what IMHO are scores of pages of perjury by Miscavige in courts though two decades as he made one lie after another about the controls in scientology and how the management and corporate changes evolved in the 80s. Here is a link to one small example of what I mean about this perjury Gerard:
You were not there when David Miscavige used personal and confidential information from auditing files of others to humiliate them.
I however was there Gerard and have seen all that personally.
So, I guess you really have nothing to say about this except to repeat the lies fed to you by your masters at OSA which are that I am lying.
Well the world is finding out and will be finding out much more as more and more people who WERE THERE speak out. Maybe you will believe it when 20 of us tell this story Gerard.
Anyway Gerard if you want our "debate" could just be on overall broad scientology topics like human rights, "total freedom" and the like. You can give all the PR lines developed by OSA and approved by Miscavige. For my part I'll just list what Hubbard and Miscavige ACTUALLY said and did privately on these topics.
> Although there are some inaccuracies in the articles here and there, > they do fairly accurately cover at least a bit of what I told them at > the event about the crimes and abuses in organized scientology at the > top. I told them about witnessing David Miscavige beating others and > seeing how he has perjured himself in courts, the lies behind the > corporate structure and much more.
> Before I comment further on what was mentioned in the articles I > wanted to state how incredibly impressed I was with the anonymous > folks who were there. What an incredible group of up-beat, > intelligent, fun, energetic and caring folks! I truly felt proud of > them and excited to be there on this historic occasion.
> One reporter asked me if I did not think it was wrong for anonymous to > criticize or otherwise make fun of a religion and was I not worried > that anonymous was setting themselves up as some "judge" of religions, > poised to attack anything with which they disagreed. I told him to > look at their signs and listen to what they were saying. They were not > focused at all on the above. Instead they stood for putting an end to > lies, family destruction, financial and other fraud and many other > abuses carried out by organized scientology. I told the reporter I was > proud to stand there with anonymous who had the courage and decency to > stand up against these injustices.
> Now, let's look at the "brilliant counter attack" against anonymous by > organized scientology through their representative there. As per one > of the above articles they say:
> 1) Gerard Renna, board member of the Church of Scientology in Boston, > said while Anonymous participates in "illegal activities," the church > offers tutoring and anti-crime programs; and
> 2) Gerard Renna (about anonymous): "They are insidious, they are > treacherous," he said. "This is a dangerous group. They are going to > lessen freedom here. We advocate total freedom."
> OMG where do you even START with that??? Those in organized > scientology have been guilty of countless crimes for decades from > their founder on down. These people from anonymous standing on the > street of Boston have been guilty of NO crimes.
> The part where Gerard says they (organized scientology) "advocate > total freedom" literately made me gag thinking of how they are built > on such things as disconnection, fair game, squashing all other > opinions, silencing "critics", penal camps for their own staff, > financial destruction of the many and on and on with literally > thousands of examples exposed all over the internet.
> At this moment, all organized scientology can do in response to > anonymous is lie.
> As for Gerard saying in one of the above linked articles that I am > lying about the abuses I mentioned in organized scientology and maybe > I want my "10 minutes of fame", all I can say is that statement is as > true and relevant as the others listed above re scientology advocating > total freedom and offering anti-crime programs.
> Gerard my ex old friend I can guarantee you one thing about this. And > that is the truth WILL be exposed and proven widely because it is the > right and just thing to do.
> Furthermore I make this public offering to Gerard: I am willing to go > on TV, radio, in front of reporters or otherwise in a public forum to > discuss and debate organized scientology with you and I will > specifically cover details of everything I mentioned to the reporter > to whom you said I was a liar. You can bring up whatever you want to > try to prove what you said about me. Here's your chance Gerard to also > talk about organized scientology's "anti crime" programs and how it > advocates "total freedom".
> And, I promise to only cover those things for which I have first hand > information.
> I have always considered you a decent person and friend Gerard and > have even honored your request for me not to speak about our telephone > conversation in the fall of 2006 when we talked about Miscavige et al. > I am still willing to leave out personal, private things you shared > and didn't want repeated and will do so. But that does not include > how, after I started posting pointing out abuses within organized > scientology, you tried to contact my family to get them to disconnect > and how you told me you were going to contact my scientologist > employer to "handle me" only to find out I no longer worked for him.
> Maybe Gerard we should talk about the time when I was off staff and a > public scientologist and you called me and asked me to be part of > dirty trick operation against Bob Minton and Stacey Young to try to > embarrass them at his farmhouse even though you knew that some of what > you were going to bring up against them was either false or unproven. > Do you remember how I told you I would not take part in that and how > crazy you were to do it? Do you remember the next week when you called > me and told me how it blew up, a shot was fired, the police were > called and I was right all along?
> Do you consider the dirty tricks you have played as a former member of > the guardian's office and a current member of the Department of > Special Affairs, under OSA, part of what your "church" in Boston does > to "advocate total freedom"?
> Or perhaps should we talk about that incredibly sad time when a young > man, a scientologist in Massachusetts, shot himself in the head and > killed himself. How he wrote a suicide note just before that asking > for a scientology funeral? Do you remember? I do. Do you remember how > incredibly distraught his parents were as they went to your wonderful > Boston org "church" for help and your "church" REFUSED to even do the > scientology funeral as the parents did not have the money to pay for > it????? Do you remember how I felt so bad for the parents when Boston > org refused them that I went to a costume store, bought a minister's > collar and went and did the scientology funeral myself to try to do > anything to get those parents some relief when Boston org was "too > busy" as there was no money in it?
> Now that I think about it, perhaps Gerard we need to just talk about > those kind of things as they are something you know about.
> You were not there when L Ron Hubbard ordered the spitting on former > scientology Sea Org executives who were held under guard and abused at > the international headquarters.
> You were not there when Miscavige punched, slapped and choked innocent > staff.
> You were not there when Miscavige used the International Finance > police to extort, abuse, financially destroy and humiliate countless > others.
> You did not have in your hands the Hubbard orders about all this and > watch Miscavige lie to, cheat, scream at and abuse countless others as > part of taking over organized scientology.
> You were not there when Miscavige funneled millions to Hubbard > threatening to strangle people who would not help to do so. > You were not involved when Hubbard gave orders to take over > Clearwater, lie and deceive and fair game any opponents.
> You were not there when Hubbard ordered selected staff to cover up his > controls of organized scientology and to protect the money being > funneled to him while he put out statements to his followers that he > took no money from scientology.
> You were not there when Miscavige instituted "gang bang sec checks" to > abuse others and demanded heads on a pike of those who opposed his > takeover of scientology.
> You are not in any way even aware of what IMHO are scores of pages of > perjury by Miscavige in courts though two decades as he made one lie > after another about the controls in scientology and how the management > and corporate changes evolved in the 80s. Here is a link to one small > example of what I mean about this perjury Gerard:
> You were not there when David Miscavige used personal and confidential > information from auditing files of others to humiliate them.
> I however was there Gerard and have seen all that personally.
> So, I guess you really have nothing to say about this except to repeat > the lies fed to you by your masters at OSA which are that I am lying.
> Well the world is finding out and will be finding out much more as > more and more people who WERE THERE speak out. Maybe you will believe > it when 20 of us tell this story Gerard.
> Anyway Gerard if you want our "debate" could just be on overall broad > scientology topics like human rights, "total freedom" and the like. > You can give all the PR lines developed by OSA and approved by > Miscavige. For my part I'll just list what Hubbard and Miscavige > ACTUALLY said and did privately on these topics.
> Are we on??
> Larry Brennan - SME
Nice post Larry,
I doubt Gerard will take you on. But ya never know.
Did you happen to see Maureen O'Keefe at the protest?
> I doubt Gerard will take you on. But ya never know.
> Did you happen to see Maureen O'Keefe at the protest?
> Patty- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Hiya Patty.
If I did see her, I didn't recognize her.
I too doubt that Gerard will take me on but would be very happy if he did. I believe that he is still an otherwise good person who is lost in a web of deceit and lies. He has no real clue of the depth of the lies and what he does know as wrong or a lie he justifies as "the greatest good".
He is positioned in one of the press articles as a "board member" of that Boston "church". Even that is based on a lie. Yes he is likely officially on the "board" but he will have no power as a board member. IMHO he still will 100% be run by OSA who is 100% controlled by Miscavige. It was my team that drafted many of their legal papers, including their "management" contract with the "mother church", other agreements where they send money to entities actually controlled by Miscavige, etc., etc. It is all a ruse and a joke to hide the real controls and to get control of the money.
I wonder if his undated resignations as a local "board member" are with OSA in LA or if they are with the RTC folks at Int? Wherever they are, our friend Gerard is a powerless figurehead and just one of many once decent people who have been deceived by the likes of Miscavige.
Nevertheless what he says must be dealt with by correcting his lies as he is helping to hide abuses and lies within organized corporate scientology.
I hope that when and if his day does come to be "taken out" by organized scientology that he is not abused as badly as Bill Franks or Gordon Cook after their undated resignations were used against them from their senior management positions by Miscavige and his team. Being taken out by them may not happen to Gerard as he is not in a high position within their "management". Rather he is a low level foot soldier. That, and the distance he is from Sea Org hubs like Clearwater, LA and at Int is what has likely kept him out of places like the "SP Hall" or the RPF to date.
Take care Patty.......................Larry Brennan - SME
Unfortunately, Hubbard left the followers no blueprint for dealing with Anonymous, or "debating" in public.
All that Scientology are left with are rules that shackle them in their ad hominem counter attacks, as that was Hubbard's way himself to deal with people taking his ideas to task.
The movement is truly a Hubbard operation, acting out Hubbard's own imperfect self.
Scientology isn't a doctrine/new religious movement. It is one man's (Hubbard's) creation/fantasy/bureaucracy.
It's a form of Flash Gordan money grubbing 1984 eastern guru type new religious movement.
I'm a Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris supporting atheist, so I have a no holds barred view of ANY of Hubbard's unprovable ideas that make up the Scientology operation.
Scientology can reform, collapse or muddle along attracting controversies.
Anonymous has to be taken seriously, because what other new religious movement has spurred this type of spontaneous reaction of young people in western civilization?
None!
Why!
Because of Hubbard's blatant bold challenging combative inspirational crappy ideas that the official Scientologists are forced to enforce on their own and on their "enemies."
Hubbard is the one at fault.
I think some damn smart writers need to take on Scientology and bore into Hubbard's ideas, and show the Hubbard mentality.
Russell Miller had Hubbard right.
Hubbard's Scientology is an American mess thrust on the world.
I think the media have been hoodwinked due to NO one really in academia with the mental horsepower to put goddamn Hubbard in his place.
No Gore Vidal or comparable intellectual bothered to waste the time to dissect Hubbard.
Hopefully one good thing that Anonymous will do, is get some intellectuals stirred to spend the time and dissect Hubbard and take Russell Miller's work further into WHY Hubbard got away with what Hubbard got away with!
The kids, Anonymous, are saying, enough is enough with this Scientology stuff!!!!!
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