OSA-Just in case...
Magoo
Just in case you all wonder ever,
"Just how DOES Tory feel about us now..."
Here's a little quote I wrote at the end of an e-mail to my
friend (just in case you were stealing e-mails)....about you
all- especially when you send CHILDREN out to follow me and steal personal
information.
"OSA If you read this: YOU SUCK ....You are pathetic, impotant ass holes
withOUT dicks and immune to love."
* and for any girls involved, translate it however you want for you all,
too*
And they THINK they are "OT">>>>>>oh Yeah!~
Using children to "gather information"? Oh I know...the bots will be told
that didn't happen, and some sit in their little office typing
away...justifying it "because I always tell the truth". Well, if you re-post
lies, or you belong to a group who DOES lie (which you DO)....that makes you
an accesssory..however you turn the key. You (and you know who you are) used
to be different. You used to really care, You used to have honor and belong
to a group who really wanted to do what was best. This has long been flushed
down the toilet....even IF you put in your daily dues of a few hours on
staff. Wake the Fuck up~~~~!!!!!!!
Just in case you were wondering....
And I ~do~ hope you all wake up~!
Don't forget that doooooooor.....
Tory/Magoo!~
Was in for 30 years
On OT 7 for 7 LONG Years
Grad 5, Interned at Flag:HSSC, FPRD auditor
ED of the Scientology Parishioners League
Scientology Ministor
Graduate of the Golden Age of Crap Student Hat
Invited into the OSA INT secret Internet Mafia
and left once I realized what they were REALLY doing
Am now
For thinking for myself, and speaking my mind
Declared SP and Expelled
SP 6 ^ with Cumulative Cluster
Free AT LAST~~~~~~~
For more info, please see (*and no, it won't hurt you)
http://www.xenu.net *personal: tory's Story)
http://www.lisatrust.net (videos)
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/toryonosa.htm
http://www.torymagoo.org
:)
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>OSA>>>(includes the "volunteer" bots here too)
>Just in case you all wonder ever,
>
>"Just how DOES Tory feel about us now..."
>
>Here's a little quote I wrote at the end of an e-mail to my
>friend (just in case you were stealing e-mails)....about you
>all- especially when you send CHILDREN out to follow me and steal personal
>information.
>
>"OSA If you read this: YOU SUCK ....You are pathetic, impotant ass holes
>withOUT dicks and immune to love."
>* and for any girls involved, translate it however you want for you all,
>too*
>
>And they THINK they are "OT">>>>>>oh Yeah!~
>
>
>
>
>Using children to "gather information"? Oh I know...the bots will be told
>that didn't happen, and some sit in their little office typing
>away...justifying it "because I always tell the truth". Well, if you re-post
>lies, or you belong to a group who DOES lie (which you DO)....that makes you
>an accesssory..however you turn the key. You (and you know who you are) used
>to be different. You used to really care, You used to have honor and belong
>to a group who really wanted to do what was best. This has long been flushed
>down the toilet....even IF you put in your daily dues of a few hours on
>staff. Wake the Fuck up~~~~!!!!!!!
>
>Just in case you were wondering....
>
>And I ~do~ hope you all wake up~!
>
>Don't forget that doooooooor.....
>
>
See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.
Feisty
Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2f0p4ussfc9dbmjn0...@4ax.com...
Then why are you posting like a contra account on a $cientology financial
statement?
Magoo
Of course you wouldn't want to be me. You KNOW that OSA is lying, spreading
their hatred, and you are aiding in this. If you were me two things could
happen:
A) you'd wake up, realize what destruction you have been a part of, and
yeeeeeeeeeks, had to face up to it. IT's rough, trust me,,,and I wasn't "in'
nearly as deep as you are. So no, you wouldn't want to be me.
B) You know about some OSA set up....a total frame of me or my friends, and
again, no you wouldn't want to be me or my friends. You see the evil, you've
bought the lies (to some extent, although I KNOW deep inside you are
waking....)- and again, you wouldn't want to get set up.
There's also the feeble "You'll never be free" routine...but I am pretty
sure you know how shallow that one is.,,,and I've well expressed how if what
you have is freedom, I'll take the opposite, please.
So which is it "lurkmonster"?
Tory/Magoo~
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2f0p4ussfc9dbmjn0...@4ax.com...
Lurkmonster
wrote:
Get Real. You sound like Dorian.
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>"See ya wouldn't want to be ya"...
>
>Of course you wouldn't want to be me. You KNOW that OSA is lying, spreading
>their hatred, and you are aiding in this. If you were me two things could
>happen:
>A) you'd wake up, realize what destruction you have been a part of, and
>yeeeeeeeeeks, had to face up to it. IT's rough, trust me,,,and I wasn't "in'
>nearly as deep as you are. So no, you wouldn't want to be me.
>B) You know about some OSA set up....a total frame of me or my friends, and
>again, no you wouldn't want to be me or my friends. You see the evil, you've
>bought the lies (to some extent, although I KNOW deep inside you are
>waking....)- and again, you wouldn't want to get set up.
> There's also the feeble "You'll never be free" routine...but I am pretty
>sure you know how shallow that one is.,,,and I've well expressed how if what
>you have is freedom, I'll take the opposite, please.
>
>So which is it "lurkmonster"?
>
I'll give you a name since you want to make up an identity for me and
then attack that made up identity. You are now Ms Benedick Arnold.
Think back ms Arnold do you like the first half of enternity? Well
guess what...
Magoo
then you re-post lies about me, over and over...
and now I've graduated to Ms. Benedict Arnold????
Wow.....you are too much.
You wouldn't know Treason if it bit you in the ass. You're way below that.
Try doing your "conditions".....
And tell me, just what condition would you consider that when your group
uses children to gather information>>>???
Tell me, please.
Tory/Magoo~
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jo1p4ugtpjksr01om...@4ax.com...
Magoo
Well, ok....let's call you "Jane"...
How's that one? Am I getting closer?? Uh ohhhhh here we go:
Go for it~
Tory/Magoo~!
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jo1p4ugtpjksr01om...@4ax.com...
Magoo
You never DID answer which one is it?
You just (as usual) went off on another attack.
Let's get back to the *real* issue of this post:
Which is it? A or B?
T
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jo1p4ugtpjksr01om...@4ax.com...
MABosnos
then attack that made up identity. You are now Ms Benedick Arnold.
Think back ms Arnold do you like the first half of enternity? Well
guess what...>>
Why can't Scientologists ever spell? It is Benedict Arnold (not Benedick) and
eternity (not enternity). Though maybe you meant to say internment ... that
would certainly describe Tory's previous life in Scientology. As for me, I'm
with Tory -- I wouldn't be a Scientologist again for anything in this or any
other universe!
Mary Ann
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>And "lurkie".....aka: Jane for now....
>
>You never DID answer which one is it?
>You just (as usual) went off on another attack.
>
>Let's get back to the *real* issue of this post:
>Which is it? A or B?
>
Well Beenadick, you have made up an identity for me you might as well
make up the answers for it.
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>And "lurkie".....aka: Jane for now....
>
>You never DID answer which one is it?
>You just (as usual) went off on another attack.
>
>Let's get back to the *real* issue of this post:
>Which is it? A or B?
>
Oh wait you have already made up the answers for me. Beenadick will
you now choose for me too?
Magoo
Cat got your tongue, "lurkmonster">>>????
T
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:736p4u0todfimca3v...@4ax.com...
Magoo
But that's your only recourse, so you think.
Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
The way out IS
The NEAREST
DOOOOOOR!!!!
** he took it, why not YOU, "Lurkmonster"???
Tory/Magoo~
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:787p4u4j1cq4dhsji...@4ax.com...
Zinj
lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:16:43 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >And "lurkie".....aka: Jane for now....
> >
> >You never DID answer which one is it?
> >You just (as usual) went off on another attack.
> >
> >Let's get back to the *real* issue of this post:
> >Which is it? A or B?
> >
>
> Well Beenadick, you have made up an identity for me you might as well
> make up the answers for it.
Oooooh! I will! I will!
Lemme see;
Scientology isn't capable of presenting logically convincing evidence for
any of its claims because there are none. L.Ron Hubbard arrived on our
poor doomed planet with all the knowledge we need to save it and
ourselves... but since he arrived at a point on the time-track where
Science was a buzzword, he presented his knowledge to the ignorant 'wogs'
in 'scientific' trappings.
This wasn't 'dishonest', since L.Ron Hubbard by definition could never be
dishonest; rather, because he realized the difficulty of the material, he
'faked us out' by offering a 'bait and switch' portal to Total Freedom.
Once a 'preclear' began getting 'tech' training, Elron removed the
implanted 'rejection circuits' from his being, so that he could 'realize'
the 'truth'.
Every single person who correctly applied L.Ron Hubbard's 'tech' became
'free' and is now 'saved' as well as a voluable promotor of ScientologyŽ.
Obviously any who 'claim' to have applied the 'tech', but fail to see the
'Church of Scientology' as the 'only true tech' are victims of SP
influences that work so diligently against 'Mankind's Only Hope'.
What wogs call 'circular logic' we call reality.
Tory, of course, advanced to some if the highest levels of ScientologyŽ,
but her betrayal demonstrates the fervor of Mankind's enemies in
destroying our only hope.
Zinj
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>Cheap....really cheap.
>
>But that's your only recourse, so you think.
>
>Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
>
> The way out IS
>
You do not have the answers you need. Many have followed the path you
are going down. They end up babbling questions and answers for and to
unreal things.
Magoo
Magoo
Like L. Ron Hubbard? Or didn't you hear???
That's exactly how he ended up......BECAUSE he kept at that futile, "OT"
path to insanity.
Sometime when you get your courage up, please look at I think it's his last
video, with the black teeth, long
Stringy hair...babbling. It is exactly as you say.
Another great reason to take that door.......:)
Tory/Magoo~
Zinj
mag...@worldnet.att.net says...
And *possibly* to mention that 'The Way Out Is The Nearest Door' is a
Zinjifarianism :)
Zinj
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>
>"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:l78p4uood7fv1pnk5...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:09:15 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Cheap....really cheap.
>> >
>> >But that's your only recourse, so you think.
>> >
>> >Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
>> >
>> > The way out IS
>> >
>> You do not have the answers you need. Many have followed the path you
>> are going down. They end up babbling questions and answers for and to
>> unreal things.
>
>Like L. Ron Hubbard? Or didn't you hear???
>
You better check your sources carefully.
Zinj
lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
There is only *one* 'Source'
And have you decided not to reply to me? Lurky baby! We love you!
Zinj
Lurkmonster
I have a fondness for you too.
Zinj
Then come on now! Tell me how my 'pseudo-lurky-answer' differs from
yours?
Where have I gone wrong understanding you? :)
Wog 'tech' uses 'correction'
Zinj
Lurkmonster
Oh, let me count the ways you have gone wrong. :) Maybe later.
Zinj
Double tch
Lurky... Believe me, I know how much Scientolgists® *hate* having people
tell them what they think.
I'm just asking you to tell me what's wrong in this:
____________________________________
Scientology isn't capable of presenting logically convincing evidence for
any of its claims because there are none. L.Ron Hubbard arrived on our
poor doomed planet with all the knowledge we need to save it and
ourselves... but since he arrived at a point on the time-track where
Science was a buzzword, he presented his knowledge to the ignorant 'wogs'
in 'scientific' trappings.
This wasn't 'dishonest', since L.Ron Hubbard by definition could never
be dishonest; rather, because he realized the difficulty of the material,
he 'faked us out' by offering a 'bait and switch' portal to Total
Freedom.
Once a 'preclear' began getting 'tech' training, Elron removed the
implanted 'rejection circuits' from his being, so that he could 'realize'
the 'truth'.
Every single person who correctly applied L.Ron Hubbard's 'tech' became
'free' and is now 'saved' as well as a voluable promotor of Scientology®.
Obviously any who 'claim' to have applied the 'tech', but fail to see the
'Church of Scientology' as the 'only true tech' are victims of SP
influences that work so diligently against 'Mankind's Only Hope'.
What wogs call 'circular logic' we call reality.
Tory, of course, advanced to some if the highest levels of Scientology®,
but her betrayal demonstrates the fervor of Mankind's enemies in
destroying our only hope.
_________________________
It's my own effort to 'simulate' an honest and full answer from you.
You could assist the effort to 'understand' Scientology® by correcting
the errors.
We call it ARC
Zinj
Lurkmonster
You are mixing what little knowledge of scientology you have acquired
with the little knowledge of other religions you have acquired. You
have blended into something you think will trap me.
>This wasn't 'dishonest', since L.Ron Hubbard by definition could never
>be dishonest; rather, because he realized the difficulty of the material,
>he 'faked us out' by offering a 'bait and switch' portal to Total
>Freedom.
>
You are combining other determined thought with falsehood and
assigning that to LRH as the source of such.
>Once a 'preclear' began getting 'tech' training, Elron removed the
>implanted 'rejection circuits' from his being, so that he could 'realize'
>the 'truth'.
>
Back to other religion mixing, assigning Elron (spelling error big
time) as the magical being that saves the PC. When it is the PC, with
the help of an auditor using scientology tech, who saves himself.
>Every single person who correctly applied L.Ron Hubbard's 'tech' became
>'free' and is now 'saved' as well as a voluable promotor of Scientology®.
>
No one has reached the end of the bridge yet. Sorry no magical other
being saving you.
>Obviously any who 'claim' to have applied the 'tech', but fail to see the
>'Church of Scientology' as the 'only true tech' are victims of SP
>influences that work so diligently against 'Mankind's Only Hope'.
>
speculating on something that would only happen if you could wish it
so. You are assuming the tech can fail when applied correctly. You
base your assumption on your experience of things just going wrong.
>What wogs call 'circular logic' we call reality.
confusing LRH with Keith Henson.
>
>Tory, of course, advanced to some if the highest levels of Scientology®,
>but her betrayal demonstrates the fervor of Mankind's enemies in
>destroying our only hope.
Miss spelled of. :) Just kidding. She is not capable of destroying our
hope.
Zinj
Thanks for answering Lurky... I'll see about replying to it later;
actually, I think your answer says more than I feel I need to right now.
Assuming even a capability to believe that some of your core concepts
were wrong... not now, but sometime later...
maybe you'll examine what you do in the light of those 'core concepts'
being wrong.
Just 'what if' not 'it is'.
Zinj
Lurkmonster
Oh come on zinji I went to a lot of trouble answering those questions
in away that you would expect. Come back so I can give you the real
answers.
Zinj
lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
<snip>
> Oh come on zinji I went to a lot of trouble answering those questions
> in away that you would expect. Come back so I can give you the real
> answers.
>
OK Lurk... One question:
*What if* L. Ron Hubbard was *only* a 'garden variety human' whose 'total
history' was this life, born here, lied about what he experienced, not
evilly, but just like many 'garden variety humans', to exaggerate his
own importance.
What if; there was no 'research'?
What if; scientology 'wins' were only placebo effect?
What if: there was no 'galactic conspiracy'?
What if; Hubbard lied, not to help us, but just because he tended to lie
like many other 'garden variety humans'; for self-aggrandizement?
Would the abuses of ScientologyŽ *still* be justified?
Zinj
Lurkmonster
>In article <gqgp4u85h0q5dqo2o...@4ax.com>,
>lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
>
><snip>
>
>> Oh come on zinji I went to a lot of trouble answering those questions
>> in away that you would expect. Come back so I can give you the real
>> answers.
>>
>
>OK Lurk... One question:
>
>*What if* L. Ron Hubbard was *only* a 'garden variety human' whose 'total
>history' was this life, born here, lied about what he experienced, not
>evilly, but just like many 'garden variety humans', to exaggerate his
>own importance.
>
Then you would be right and I would be the fool that you think I am.
>What if; there was no 'research'?
Then there would not be the volumes and volumes of tech that
works when you do what it says. I have felt the tech work for me and
I studied the tech and saw it work for others.
>What if; scientology 'wins' were only placebo effect?
I used the tech with individuals that knew nothing about the tech and
the tech worked. There was no expectations on their part, they only
knew that I was going to ask them some questions and I saw the results
as expected and they were very happy. So I would have to be lying to
to myself as some here believe.
>What if: there was no 'galactic conspiracy'?
This world would have less problems.
>What if; Hubbard lied, not to help us, but just because he tended to lie
>like many other 'garden variety humans'; for self-aggrandizement?
>
Hubbard could lie as much as he wanted to self aggrandize himself as
far as I am concerned. As long as the tech he developed works as
promised.
>Would the abuses of ScientologyŽ *still* be justified?
>
I still say the "abuses" are only mistakes made by individuals while
they were trying to help others.
Mike Krotz
Lets break it down to one single incident.
How exactly was CCHR representative, the individual named Dennis Clarke
trying to help me when he punched me twice in the stomach?
And which was it? An "abuse?" Or a "mistake?"
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>Lets try something very simple then, regarding "abuses" or "mistakes."
>Lets break it down to one single incident.
>
>How exactly was CCHR representative, the individual named Dennis Clarke
>trying to help me when he punched me twice in the stomach?
>
>And which was it? An "abuse?" Or a "mistake?"
>
Well I don't know you and I don't know if Dennis Clark punched you in
the stomach. If he did then he was trying to help you understand how
he felt about you and get you to stop doing something that he felt was
harmful to him and or others.
liannaskywalker
wrote:
Oh, come on. Punching someone is not "helping them to understand" or
"communicating". It's a total TR flunk, losing the positive
self-control that Scientology's supposed to help you get.
Shouldn't the tech have helped Mr. Clarke express his feelings about
Mike's actions without resorting to violence?
Lianna Skywalker
SP4
"When you show the odd flash of contextual intelligence, I forget your
generation can't read." -- Dr. Hannibal Lecter
Lurkmonster
<liannas...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 04:54:57 GMT, Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:51:41 -0500, Mike Krotz <M...@fornikulture.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Lets try something very simple then, regarding "abuses" or "mistakes."
>>>Lets break it down to one single incident.
>>>
>>>How exactly was CCHR representative, the individual named Dennis Clarke
>>>trying to help me when he punched me twice in the stomach?
>>>
>>>And which was it? An "abuse?" Or a "mistake?"
>>>
>>Well I don't know you and I don't know if Dennis Clark punched you in
>>the stomach. If he did then he was trying to help you understand how
>>he felt about you and get you to stop doing something that he felt was
>>harmful to him and or others.
>
>Oh, come on. Punching someone is not "helping them to understand" or
>"communicating". It's a total TR flunk, losing the positive
>self-control that Scientology's supposed to help you get.
>
>Shouldn't the tech have helped Mr. Clarke express his feelings about
>Mike's actions without resorting to violence?
>
Yeah I was kidding Mike. IMHO Mr. Clark needed an auditing session for
sure.
Magoo
say they are not abuse, they are just mistakes is horseshit. Per your logic,
we could take every abuse in history and say, "It was just an accident". IS
you all posting lies about me (or re-posting someone else's lies) just an
accident? No..it's abusive..and it IS a bunch of *crap. The fact that you
cannot see posting someone else's gossip (and saying it as fact) is abusive
tells a lot right there. That was NO accident, and you know it. If you
don't, my sympathies.
Was OSA trying to pin a criminal conviction on me (6 months after I left)
..."Just an accident">? NO~ It was intended, planned out, executed and
failed miserably. But you all did it, and trust me (and the court records~!)
It wasn't an accident. Even the Judge saw through that one. To place 100
cameras in a 4 block area is not an accident,,,,it is abusive, invasive, and
entrapment. Shame on you~!
Talk to Paulette Cooper, who your group set up, sleezed into her house,
tried to get her (per the program) thrown in JAIL>>>>do you consider that an
accident or abuse? Are you going to say that having me open up phony
internet accounts was "just an accident"?
I considered it fine, until I saw what you were doing with them, and THAT
was out and out abuse.
Come on,,,,,get real. LOOK~ These are just a few of skillions of incidents.
They are NOT "just accidents". They are planned, intended and abusive. I
know the mind set you are promoting. You as a Scientologist think something
in this order: "Scientology is all good, and any of these bad things are
only because we were trying to help, and screwed up". Errrrrrr sure, maybe
SOME things were truly accidents. But we are not talking about those. What
we are referring to here are actual, abusive incidents. Fair Game is NOT an
"Accident". Fair Game is ABUSE>>>>all the way. There are court doc's of Fair
Game.
I could go on and on...but many others will give examples.
I hope you open your eyes.
Tory/Magoo~
"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jonp4us3q0kjtffbf...@4ax.com...
Roland
Why? Didn't he do it hard enough?
--
Clear Cognition: "I am mocking up my own reactive mind" ~$40,000
OT8 cognition: "Now I know who I am NOT and am interested in
finding out who I am" ~$300,000
Joshua Korosi
Lurkmonster wrote:
> >Would the abuses of Scientology® *still* be justified?
> >
> I still say the "abuses" are only mistakes made by individuals while
> they were trying to help others.
Hey hey now, wait a minute. If the tech truly works, then why do so many
people die after not receiving proper medical care, or during the
whatsitcalled Rundown before they join Scientology? Shouldn't these people be
healthy and happy now?
-Joshua Korosi
Tommy
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:01:50 -0800, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <gqgp4u85h0q5dqo2o...@4ax.com>,
> >lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> Oh come on zinji I went to a lot of trouble answering those questions
> >> in away that you would expect. Come back so I can give you the real
> >> answers.
> >>
> >
> >OK Lurk... One question:
> >
> >*What if* L. Ron Hubbard was *only* a 'garden variety human' whose 'total
> >history' was this life, born here, lied about what he experienced, not
> >evilly, but just like many 'garden variety humans', to exaggerate his
> >own importance.
> >
> Then you would be right and I would be the fool that you think I am.
>
> >What if; there was no 'research'?
>
> Then there would not be the volumes and volumes of tech that
> works when you do what it says.
Evasion.
hubbard dictated bullshit that came literally off the top of his head.
It was just another SciFi story for him.
Many witnesses say so.
>
> >What if; scientology 'wins' were only placebo effect?
>
> I used the tech with individuals that knew nothing about the tech and
> the tech worked. There was no expectations on their part, they only
> knew that I was going to ask them some questions and I saw the results
> as expected and they were very happy. So I would have to be lying to
> to myself as some here believe.
No expectations, eh? You just told them it was a party game?
Liar.
>
> >What if: there was no 'galactic conspiracy'?
>
> This world would have less problems.
Ok - I have one better phrased:
"What if there IS no 'galactic conspiracy'?
>
> >What if; Hubbard lied, not to help us, but just because he tended to lie
> >like many other 'garden variety humans'; for self-aggrandizement?
> >
> Hubbard could lie as much as he wanted to self aggrandize himself as
> far as I am concerned. As long as the tech he developed works as
> promised.
Are you in the habit of trusting habitual lairs with your life?
What am I saying - of course you are.
Tommy
--
From: d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Subject: the 5 stages of Scientology
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <696t5h$508$1...@mistletoe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,rec.humor
People often come to the #scientology channel on IRC to ask for a
quick summary of what Scientologists believe. I tell them there are
five stages to Scientology:
1. Self-help courses. Begins with a free personality test
that ALWAYS shows you have serious mental problems.
2. Dianetics: a kind of quack psychotherapy in which you revisit
all the bad stuff that ever happened to you, from conception
onward.
3. Scientology: you discover that you are an immortal being, and you
need therapy for all the shit that happened to you in all your
previous lives, too.
4. Advanced Scientology (the Operating Thetan levels): you discover
that you are possessed by the spirits of murdered space aliens,
and they need therapy too. Bad news: they have no money,
so you have to pay.
5. SP level: you decide that Scientology is bullshit, and leave.
The cult declares you an enemy and Suppressive Person,
and harasses you for the next 10 years.
For people desiring to learn more about Scientology, I suggest
skipping the intro stuff and starting right in on the space aliens.
Visit http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets for valuable data on this
important topic.
-- Dave Touretzky, KoX (SP4.9): unpaid antagonist.
Mike Krotz
My operating a video camera was harmful to him and others?
I am not surprised you would defend violence like that.
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
Mike Krotz
but I am happy to see that you were "just kidding" about condoning
Clarke's violent actions.
Why could you not answer the question seriously the first time?
What does it say about CCHR that they continue with Clarke as a
spokesperson and Chairman even with his documented violent tendencies?
What does it say about Scientology?
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
arnie lerma
wrote:
>Well you were responding to Lianna here...
>
>but I am happy to see that you were "just kidding" about condoning
>Clarke's violent actions.
>
>Why could you not answer the question seriously the first time?
>
>What does it say about CCHR that they continue with Clarke as a
>spokesperson and Chairman even with his documented violent tendencies?
>What does it say about Scientology?
>
That Scientology is shrinking and they just can't find any good help
any more
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millennium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
You want Bigots? http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html
Kaeli
of Bent Corydon's associates before. The description of such is in the book:
"LRH: Messiah or Madman"
It appears violence is a problem with Mr. Clark, Lurkmonster. I don't
believe violence is a form of communication that is acceptable.
The scary part is that, this bully is in charge of the CCHR.
http://www.lisatrust.net/Media/ots.htm
Also, download realplayer and see the videos involving Dennis Clark and his
behaviour.
Kaeli A.
Kaeli
Benedict Arnold. For one, you still have people from the British Commonwealth
here :) "O Canada, our home and native land.."
For another, aren't you just avoiding Tory's question?
As for going into "first half of eternity", I'm not going to get into that.
Kaeli A.
Lurkmonster wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:20:24 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"See ya wouldn't want to be ya"...
> >
> >Of course you wouldn't want to be me. You KNOW that OSA is lying, spreading
> >their hatred, and you are aiding in this. If you were me two things could
> >happen:
> >A) you'd wake up, realize what destruction you have been a part of, and
> >yeeeeeeeeeks, had to face up to it. IT's rough, trust me,,,and I wasn't "in'
> >nearly as deep as you are. So no, you wouldn't want to be me.
> >B) You know about some OSA set up....a total frame of me or my friends, and
> >again, no you wouldn't want to be me or my friends. You see the evil, you've
> >bought the lies (to some extent, although I KNOW deep inside you are
> >waking....)- and again, you wouldn't want to get set up.
> > There's also the feeble "You'll never be free" routine...but I am pretty
> >sure you know how shallow that one is.,,,and I've well expressed how if what
> >you have is freedom, I'll take the opposite, please.
> >
> >So which is it "lurkmonster"?
> >
> I'll give you a name since you want to make up an identity for me and
> then attack that made up identity. You are now Ms Benedick Arnold.
> Think back ms Arnold do you like the first half of enternity? Well
> guess what...
Kaeli
Get your genders straight, and please quit the insults. It doesn't suit you at
all, and makes you look worse.
Are you doing the A-E's, Lurk? I'm somewhat disappointed in you, as I thought you
were a friendly sort of person, much like Fluffygirl, who is very forthright, and
will answer your questions fairly and in a just manner.
I'm sorry to see that I'd have to change my mind regarding you.
It's sadly disappointing. I hope you realize that doing the A-E's isn't doing you
any good to yourself.
Kaeli A.
Lurkmonster wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:16:43 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >And "lurkie".....aka: Jane for now....
> >
> >You never DID answer which one is it?
> >You just (as usual) went off on another attack.
> >
> >Let's get back to the *real* issue of this post:
> >Which is it? A or B?
> >
>
> Well Beenadick, you have made up an identity for me you might as well
> make up the answers for it.
>
> >T
> >"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:jo1p4ugtpjksr01om...@4ax.com...
Lurkmonster
Well Kaeli, how would you feel if OSA followed you around with a video
camera?
Lurkmonster
wrote:
>
>"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:jonp4us3q0kjtffbf...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:01:50 -0800, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <gqgp4u85h0q5dqo2o...@4ax.com>,
>> >lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >> Oh come on zinji I went to a lot of trouble answering those questions
>> >> in away that you would expect. Come back so I can give you the real
>> >> answers.
>> >>
>> >
>> >OK Lurk... One question:
>> >
>> >*What if* L. Ron Hubbard was *only* a 'garden variety human' whose 'total
>> >history' was this life, born here, lied about what he experienced, not
>> >evilly, but just like many 'garden variety humans', to exaggerate his
>> >own importance.
>> >
>> Then you would be right and I would be the fool that you think I am.
>>
>> >What if; there was no 'research'?
>>
>> Then there would not be the volumes and volumes of tech that
>> works when you do what it says.
>
>
>Evasion.
>hubbard dictated bullshit that came literally off the top of his head.
>It was just another SciFi story for him.
>Many witnesses say so.
Could it be that you are basing more than just your life on habitual
liars words?
>
>
>>
>> >What if; scientology 'wins' were only placebo effect?
>>
>> I used the tech with individuals that knew nothing about the tech and
>> the tech worked. There was no expectations on their part, they only
>> knew that I was going to ask them some questions and I saw the results
>> as expected and they were very happy. So I would have to be lying to
>> to myself as some here believe.
>
>
>No expectations, eh? You just told them it was a party game?
>Liar.
Sir would slap you with my glove if you were within reach. :)
You don't know but you pretend to know what I say is true or not.
The fact that you pretend to know something that you could not know
that makes you a liar.
>
>
>>
>> >What if: there was no 'galactic conspiracy'?
>>
>> This world would have less problems.
>
>
>Ok - I have one better phrased:
>"What if there IS no 'galactic conspiracy'?
Well LRH and some of the boys may have been busy and that could be the
case now. But unlike you I will not pretend to know for sure.
>
>
>>
>> >What if; Hubbard lied, not to help us, but just because he tended to lie
>> >like many other 'garden variety humans'; for self-aggrandizement?
>> >
>> Hubbard could lie as much as he wanted to self aggrandize himself as
>> far as I am concerned. As long as the tech he developed works as
>> promised.
>
>
>Are you in the habit of trusting habitual lairs with your life?
>What am I saying - of course you are.
Heh if you live where there is a government that has politicians then
so do you.
>
>
> Tommy
Lurkmonster
>I think it's better if you come up with something else, Lurkmonster, then Mrs.
>Benedict Arnold. For one, you still have people from the British Commonwealth
>here :) "O Canada, our home and native land.."
>For another, aren't you just avoiding Tory's question?
>As for going into "first half of eternity", I'm not going to get into that.
>
Yeah but know one really trusts a traitor. I mean it may be just a
habit and the tides could turn again.
Lurkmonster
>Excuse me Lurk.. Tory is a female.
>Get your genders straight, and please quit the insults. It doesn't suit you at
>all, and makes you look worse.
>Are you doing the A-E's, Lurk? I'm somewhat disappointed in you, as I thought you
>were a friendly sort of person, much like Fluffygirl, who is very forthright, and
>will answer your questions fairly and in a just manner.
>I'm sorry to see that I'd have to change my mind regarding you.
>It's sadly disappointing. I hope you realize that doing the A-E's isn't doing you
>any good to yourself.
>
Well Kaeli I don't see you admonishing Tory for writing this:
<>"OSA If you read this: YOU SUCK ....You are pathetic, impotant ass
<>holes withOUT dicks and immune to love."
<>* and for any girls involved, translate it however you want for you
<>all, too*
Lurkmonster
>Excuse me Lurk.. Tory is a female.
>Get your genders straight, and please quit the insults. It doesn't suit you at
>all, and makes you look worse.
>Are you doing the A-E's, Lurk? I'm somewhat disappointed in you, as I thought you
>were a friendly sort of person, much like Fluffygirl, who is very forthright, and
>will answer your questions fairly and in a just manner.
>I'm sorry to see that I'd have to change my mind regarding you.
>It's sadly disappointing. I hope you realize that doing the A-E's isn't doing you
>any good to yourself.
>
Just so you know Dick is also a word for private investigator.
Starshadow
Lurkmonster wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:09:15 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Cheap....really cheap.
>>
>>But that's your only recourse, so you think.
>>
>>Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
>>
>> The way out IS
>>
>>
> You do not have the answers you need. Many have followed the path you
> are going down. They end up babbling questions and answers for and to
> unreal things.
>
Speaking of unreal things, Ron used to brag to sf fans (including me)
that he made all this up to get rich and was proud to be fleecing you
idiots.
As I recall one of his statements was in the line of "Barnum was right,
there is a sucker born every minute, and I'm fleecing my share!"
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
(to find out what this means go to www.xenu.net)
Starshadow
Lurkmonster wrote:
I wouldn't be punching them in the stomach.
Besides, some of the incidents were not "following around with a video
camera" , they were legally protected picketing of the CofS official
buildings, and documenting that picketing, which has become necessary
since your cult's insane followers attack people for picketing.
The question remains--why do YOU think that the CofS keeps the thug
Dennis Clarke as a spokesperson and sanctions his actions including his
attacks on peaceful picketers? Why or why not is that following LRH's
"tech"? Why or why not is this indicative of a legitimate religion's
treatment of people who disagree with its methods?
Is it ethical for people to treat people in this manner, lurky?
Lurkmonster
<stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
>
>Lurkmonster wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:09:15 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Cheap....really cheap.
>>>
>>>But that's your only recourse, so you think.
>>>
>>>Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
>>>
>>> The way out IS
>>>
>>>
>> You do not have the answers you need. Many have followed the path you
>> are going down. They end up babbling questions and answers for and to
>> unreal things.
>>
>
>
>Speaking of unreal things, Ron used to brag to sf fans (including me)
>that he made all this up to get rich and was proud to be fleecing you
>idiots.
>
>As I recall one of his statements was in the line of "Barnum was right,
>there is a sucker born every minute, and I'm fleecing my share!"
Heh well we all know that Ron could have pulled some legs every now
and then if it would smooth over an awkward situation. Some people
just don't seem to get the humor and take everything litterally though
and that can be funny too. Just so you know, I have been around long
enough to be able to feel my leg being pulled. Just don't keep my
socks.
Starshadow
MABosnos wrote:
> <<I'll give you a name since you want to make up an identity for me and
> then attack that made up identity. You are now Ms Benedick Arnold.
> Think back ms Arnold do you like the first half of enternity? Well
> guess what...>>
>
> Why can't Scientologists ever spell?
It's that much vaunted "study tech".
liannaskywalker
wrote:
I'm not Kaeli, but I'll answer. I think anyone would be irritated or
nervous if someone followed them around with a video camera, but not
everyone would punch the camera operator in the gut, or attack them
with a hammer like that one guy did to Mark Bunker.
I wouldn't get violent, but you know, I'd probably swear a lot.
Lurkmonster
Well that depends on what was done before the camera was turned on
everyone recognizes the right to self defense.
Lurkmonster
What if before the camera was turned on they were saying stuff like,
"I'm going to kill you" and "you better run" or such stuff or maybe
throwing stuff at you and then they come up to you with the camera
turned on?
Lurkmonster
<stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
>
>MABosnos wrote:
>
>> <<I'll give you a name since you want to make up an identity for me and
>> then attack that made up identity. You are now Ms Benedick Arnold.
>> Think back ms Arnold do you like the first half of enternity? Well
>> guess what...>>
>>
>> Why can't Scientologists ever spell?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's that much vaunted "study tech".
Heh Heh I knew you liked pulling others legs.
Mike O'Connor
Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Speaking of unreal things, Ron used to brag to sf fans (including me)
> >that he made all this up to get rich and was proud to be fleecing you
> >idiots.
> >
> >As I recall one of his statements was in the line of "Barnum was right,
> >there is a sucker born every minute, and I'm fleecing my share!"
> Heh well we all know that Ron could have pulled some legs every now
> and then if it would smooth over an awkward situation. Some people
> just don't seem to get the humor and take everything litterally though
> and that can be funny too. Just so you know, I have been around long
> enough to be able to feel my leg being pulled. Just don't keep my
> socks.
How do you know what the dead cult founder said to Starshadow was the
joke and what he wrote for you was not? How do you know it wasn't the
other way around? Objectively, which way do you think would make for a
funnier joke?
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Lurkmonster
Well you see you have to be able to tell when your leg is being
pulled. You see if someone starts talking about the past track (as sci
fi fans would tend to do) and it seems to upset them, it is sometimes
best to put their mind at ease. Let things lay if you will.
Feisty
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:13:25 -0600, "Feisty" <su...@skytoday.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:46:14 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >OSA>>>(includes the "volunteer" bots here too)
> >> >Just in case you all wonder ever,
> >> >
> >> >"Just how DOES Tory feel about us now..."
> >> >
> >> >Here's a little quote I wrote at the end of an e-mail to my
> >> >friend (just in case you were stealing e-mails)....about you
> >> >all- especially when you send CHILDREN out to follow me and steal
> >personal
> >> >information.
> >> >
> >> >"OSA If you read this: YOU SUCK ....You are pathetic, impotant ass
holes
> >> >withOUT dicks and immune to love."
> >> >* and for any girls involved, translate it however you want for you
all,
> >> >too*
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Using children to "gather information"? Oh I know...the bots will be
> >told
> >> >that didn't happen, and some sit in their little office typing
> >> >away...justifying it "because I always tell the truth". Well, if you
> >re-post
> >> >lies, or you belong to a group who DOES lie (which you DO)....that
makes
> >you
> >> >an accesssory..however you turn the key. You (and you know who you
are)
> >used
> >> >to be different. You used to really care, You used to have honor and
> >belong
> >> >to a group who really wanted to do what was best. This has long been
> >flushed
> >> >down the toilet....even IF you put in your daily dues of a few hours
on
> >> >staff. Wake the Fuck up~~~~!!!!!!!
> >> >
> >> >Just in case you were wondering....
> >> >
> >> >And I ~do~ hope you all wake up~!
> >> >
> >> >Don't forget that doooooooor.....
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >> See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.
> >
> >Then why are you posting like a contra account on a $cientology
financial
> >statement?
> >
> Get Real. You sound like Dorian.
Remove unreal. You sound like Dr. Paloma
barb
Oh, fer dog's sake, lurk! What an utterly stupid statement! Those OSA
fucks follow us, our parents, our friends, without excuse of a picket.
Clarke was taped DURING a picket, you silly sod! That's when "regular
people" tote the camcorders.
Bringing a camcorder to document a picket hardly equates to being
"followed around." You have to BE there to be videotaped.
Gad, your defensive arguments just keep getting lamer. "It wasn't
cooking oil, it was vegetable oil!" That wins the stupidest defense post
so far, but you're closing in on succeeding that.
Do you even realize what your posts look like to mainstream wogs, I mean
public citizens, when they read this stuff? I think you're guaranteeing
that there are people who would not fall for Scientology's glamour based
solely upon the quality of your posts!
You *did* pay a great deal of money for this communication "skill,"
after all.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm
SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE $CIENTOLOGY? Sign the petition at
http://www4.PetitionOnline.com/cofs1/
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
barb
Lurky, you don't HAVE any socks left! They just told you that the skin
covering your feet is argyle, and you're indoctrinated enough to believe
them.
Lurkmonster
Well thank you for your concern Barb. I hope I have not upset you in
some way. By the way no one drinks a *big glass* of oil on the purif.
You did not seem to get that the last time you were losing your temper
at me in this public forum.
Lurkmonster
You seem to have forgotten this post in the ARS archives. He was not
on the picket line he was on some stairs.
From: Mike Krotz (Tam...@verizonmail.com)
Subject: Re: Att: Mike Krotz. New questions from another thread.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2001-03-12 14:32:22 PST
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
This was all covered in previous posts. But I will summarize.
The State Attorney refuses to prosecute Clark. They do not dispute
the facts and
the videotape evidence. I was told that they felt a jury would not
convict Clark
because the way I greeted him might be portrayed to them as
"harassment."
I pointed out that Clark was descending the stairs, when he turned
around and
ascended them again and punched me twice. If he was "harassed" or
even felt
"threatened", he already was closer to an exit than he was from me at
the point he
turned around. The SAO continues to refuse to prosecute this case.
I asked them what exactly is going to have to happen, how badly
injured will I have
to be before someone does get prosecuted for assaulting me, and how
many
witnesses and different camera angles does it take to prove something
happened?
They didn't seem to have an answer for that. This sends a message
that it is open
season on us camera operators in Pinellas County- Mark dodging
hammers, Jeff
getting gummed, me getting punched and hit by Clark and a Scientology
process
server. It's like they can't stand the fact that you have a camera
angle that THEY
don't control! You would think 100 different angles is enough!
MK
liannaskywalker
wrote:
<snip>
He says Clarke was on the stairs; doesn't say where he was.
Funny that Clarke was on his way to an exit, then he turned around and
came *back* just so he could punch Mike. He had an opportunity to get
away from the camera, but he deliberately decided *not* to leave. I
mean, if you're on a public street and you don't want to be
videotaped, the best recourse is to get off the street, right?
Instead, Clarke thought the best recourse was violence.
Not sure how you can color this as a good or even neutral thing. The
guy acted like an ass.
Lurkmonster
Well I find it interesting that critics of scientology use a private
investigator and video camera to follow a scientologist down some
stairs. They then try to prosecute the scientologist and the
prosecuter says they have no case because of harrasment issues.
Lurkmonster
wrote:
I think I will use a critics form of communicating so that the critics
will not miss the meaning:
well I find it interesting that CRITICS OF SCIENTOLOGY use a
PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR and VIDEO CAMERA to FOLLOW
a SCIENTOLOGIST down some stairs. They then try to PROCECUTE
the SCIENTOLOGIST and the PROCECUTER says they
HAVE NO CASE because of HARRASMENT issues.
Mike Krotz
wish to be filmed in a public place?
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
Mike Krotz
them from the parking garage? And then what if they taped the entire
ascent up the steps of the parking garage, and the opening of the door
prior to the assault?
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
Mike Krotz
Funny how lurky suggests that bad things happened just before the tape
rolls, but at the same time quotes the edited version for maximum impact
to support his/her/its point of view.
Guess I am just gonna have to post the whole damn video.
MK
liannaskywalker wrote:
Mike Krotz
A public parking garage, a visiting German government official, an
international press conference in progress, and you think there was
something wrong with my being concerned about someone lurking in the
parking garage next door?
I was there to provide security. I sensed a threat in the garage and
looked into it. It turned out to be Clarke, who had assaulted me at a
picket just a few days prior. I greeted him, and he assaulted me and my
female companion.
He then descended the stairs, while I remained on a landing. He
returned to the landing where I stood and punched me twice in the
stomach. On videotape. In front of a witness.
Any questions?
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
Mike Krotz
making to safeguard the security of a visiting German government
official during her international press conference.
MK
Lurkmonster wrote:
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
That's what they said about Battlefield Earth! :)
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
it's true for you. :|
"Mike Krotz" <M...@fornikulture.com> wrote in message
news:3C4E2D7B...@fornikulture.com...
Tommy
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:20:46 GMT, "Tommy" <Tommysp**ges...@xs.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:01:50 -0800, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <gqgp4u85h0q5dqo2o...@4ax.com>,
> >> >lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
> >> >
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >> >> Oh come on zinji I went to a lot of trouble answering those
questions
> >> >> in away that you would expect. Come back so I can give you the real
> >> >> answers.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >OK Lurk... One question:
> >> >
> >> >*What if* L. Ron Hubbard was *only* a 'garden variety human' whose
'total
> >> >history' was this life, born here, lied about what he experienced, not
> >> >evilly, but just like many 'garden variety humans', to exaggerate his
> >> >own importance.
> >> >
> >> Then you would be right and I would be the fool that you think I am.
> >>
> >> >What if; there was no 'research'?
> >>
> >> Then there would not be the volumes and volumes of tech that
> >> works when you do what it says.
> >
> >
> >Evasion.
> >hubbard dictated bullshit that came literally off the top of his head.
> >It was just another SciFi story for him.
> >Many witnesses say so.
> Could it be that you are basing more than just your life on habitual
> liars words?
You owe me another irony meter. I was about to ask you much the same
question.
hubbard lied - habitually. He lied about his education, his naval record,
the number of times he was married (for no particular reason, apparently),
and so on.
I don't lend people like that money, much less trust them with important
things like my *life*.
Now go back and reread the sentence you wrote, and apply it to yourself.
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >What if; scientology 'wins' were only placebo effect?
> >>
> >> I used the tech with individuals that knew nothing about the tech and
> >> the tech worked. There was no expectations on their part, they only
> >> knew that I was going to ask them some questions and I saw the results
> >> as expected and they were very happy. So I would have to be lying to
> >> to myself as some here believe.
> >
> >
> >No expectations, eh? You just told them it was a party game?
> >Liar.
> Sir would slap you with my glove if you were within reach. :)
> You don't know but you pretend to know what I say is true or not.
> The fact that you pretend to know something that you could not know
> that makes you a liar.
I asked a question, you attack and evade - par for the course, I suppose.
Out of boredom, I'll ask you again - If you used "the tech" on someone who
knew nothing about it, what did you do?
Did you just tell them to grab the soup cans without telling them why?
Did you tell them it would make them feel better? Did you tell them it would
help them?
Either you explained why you were going to "use the tech" on them or you
didn't.
If you told them it would help/feel good, you gave them expectations.
If you didn't, it was out-ethics in the *extreme*.
Which was it?
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >What if: there was no 'galactic conspiracy'?
> >>
> >> This world would have less problems.
> >
> >
> >Ok - I have one better phrased:
> >"What if there IS no 'galactic conspiracy'?
> Well LRH and some of the boys may have been busy and that could be the
> case now. But unlike you I will not pretend to know for sure.
Natter and ser fac. You pretend to "know" many things you can't prove.
You believe in Body Thetans - but you can't prove they exist. Ditto
Marcabians. Ditto implants.
You believe in them because hubbard said so, and because he rigged "the
tech" to "prove" (subjectively)
that they exist. In other words, you're told by others it works, and that if
it doesn't work, you're doing someting wrong.
Peer pressure and self-delusion triggers the Placebo Effect, and the sugar
pill becomes an antibiotic.
This is a bit like having a crooked carny game-runner "prove" you're not a
good enough pitcher to knock over the milk bottles.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >What if; Hubbard lied, not to help us, but just because he tended to
lie
> >> >like many other 'garden variety humans'; for self-aggrandizement?
> >> >
> >> Hubbard could lie as much as he wanted to self aggrandize himself as
> >> far as I am concerned. As long as the tech he developed works as
> >> promised.
> >
> >
> >Are you in the habit of trusting habitual lairs with your life?
> >What am I saying - of course you are.
> Heh if you live where there is a government that has politicians then
> so do you.
Yes, but I don't stand in front of a picture of them and hip hip hooray them
like an idiot.
I'm wary of them and don't trust them and take great pleasure in voting them
out when I don't like them.
Lets see you try that with Miscavige.
Tommy
Tommy
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:46:04 -0500, Kaeli <ka...@klis.com> wrote:
>
> >Excuse me Lurk.. Tory is a female.
> >Get your genders straight, and please quit the insults. It doesn't suit
you at
> >all, and makes you look worse.
> >Are you doing the A-E's, Lurk? I'm somewhat disappointed in you, as I
thought you
> >were a friendly sort of person, much like Fluffygirl, who is very
forthright, and
> >will answer your questions fairly and in a just manner.
> >I'm sorry to see that I'd have to change my mind regarding you.
> >It's sadly disappointing. I hope you realize that doing the A-E's isn't
doing you
> >any good to yourself.
> >
> Well Kaeli I don't see you admonishing Tory for writing this:
> <>"OSA If you read this: YOU SUCK ....You are pathetic, impotant ass
> <>holes withOUT dicks and immune to love."
> <>* and for any girls involved, translate it however you want for you
> <>all, too*
/Bill Murray
"Yes, sir - it's true. This man has no dick."
Bill Murray/
Tommy
--
(on why critics provide links to $cn webpages but $cn pages do not link to
critics')
Scientology would not gain any authenticity by pointing to a bunch of
psych believers spouting lies.
Lurkmonster
Kaeli
of communication, and it is criminal behaviour in the wog world. :)
However, I have been followed with a video camera before during pickets, by the
so-called "church" of Scientology.
Kaeli A.
Kaeli
I have.
Why not ask her why she had been disaffected from the CoS for a while, lurk..
without the insults, of course :)
Kaeli A.
Lurkmonster wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:42:50 -0500, Kaeli <ka...@klis.com> wrote:
>
> >I think it's better if you come up with something else, Lurkmonster, then Mrs.
> >Benedict Arnold. For one, you still have people from the British Commonwealth
> >here :) "O Canada, our home and native land.."
> >For another, aren't you just avoiding Tory's question?
> >As for going into "first half of eternity", I'm not going to get into that.
> >
> Yeah but know one really trusts a traitor. I mean it may be just a
> habit and the tides could turn again.
Kaeli
(re: her marriage) your concern to start with?
Also, are you sure doing the A to E's is really good for you? Or does it always bring
out the worst in people?
Kaeli A.
Kaeli
Go for it, Mike. I believe I've seen this video before, and there was no need for
Dennis to go back up the stairs just to punch someone in the stomach.
Kaeli A.
Magoo
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:42:50 -0500, Kaeli <ka...@klis.com> wrote:
>
> >I think it's better if you come up with something else, Lurkmonster, then
Mrs.
> >Benedict Arnold. For one, you still have people from the British
Commonwealth
> >here :) "O Canada, our home and native land.."
> >For another, aren't you just avoiding Tory's question?
> >As for going into "first half of eternity", I'm not going to get into
that.
> >
> Yeah but know one really trusts a traitor. I mean it may be just a
> habit and the tides could turn again.
More black PR eh "Lurkmonster"??? I'm sure if you or your sick group (OSA)
has ANYTHING to do with things, You will successfully black PR me. How "OT"
of you.That's HONESTLY why you got into Scientology???? I've told who I am.
You are STILL in Hiding....writing slander behind a phony name. Go figure.
Can't answer my questions can ya? Soooo predicatable: Reff: Fair Game.
Pretty sick, actually to watch you DO this. And to think I believed you all
for 30 years!
I can only say, I HOPE you wake up. Don't listen to me,,,,READ.
Tory/Magoo~
Magoo
Tory/Magoo~!
"barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message news:3C4DF86B...@cox.net...
barb
Dude, you aren't important enough to make me lose my temper. Sorry to
break it to you, Lurky, but you're just an amusement.
liannaskywalker
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
*snerk*
Sorry. That was just... *snicker*...
Magoo
> > >
> > >Tory,
<snip>
> >
> > Miss spelled of. :) Just kidding. She is not capable of destroying our
> > hope.
Nor would I want to.
Thank you "Lurkmonster"....as I said before, You give good evidence :)
Tory/Magoo!
> >
>
>
Tommy
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:46:14 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >OSA>>>(includes the "volunteer" bots here too)
> >Just in case you all wonder ever,
> >
> >"Just how DOES Tory feel about us now..."
> >
> >Here's a little quote I wrote at the end of an e-mail to my
> >friend (just in case you were stealing e-mails)....about you
> >all- especially when you send CHILDREN out to follow me and steal
personal
> >information.
> >
> >"OSA If you read this: YOU SUCK ....You are pathetic, impotant ass holes
> >withOUT dicks and immune to love."
> >* and for any girls involved, translate it however you want for you all,
> >too*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Using children to "gather information"? Oh I know...the bots will be told
> >that didn't happen, and some sit in their little office typing
> >away...justifying it "because I always tell the truth". Well, if you
re-post
> >lies, or you belong to a group who DOES lie (which you DO)....that makes
you
> >an accesssory..however you turn the key. You (and you know who you are)
used
> >to be different. You used to really care, You used to have honor and
belong
> >to a group who really wanted to do what was best. This has long been
flushed
> >down the toilet....even IF you put in your daily dues of a few hours on
> >staff. Wake the Fuck up~~~~!!!!!!!
> >
> >Just in case you were wondering....
> >
> >And I ~do~ hope you all wake up~!
> >
> >Don't forget that doooooooor.....
> >
> >
> See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.
But, Lurky - you *are* her - two years ago.
Although you're probably not as far up the Bridge as she was.......
Tommy
--
From: d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Subject: the 5 stages of Scientology
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <696t5h$508$1...@mistletoe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,rec.humor
People often come to the #scientology channel on IRC to ask for a
quick summary of what Scientologists believe. I tell them there are
five stages to Scientology:
1. Self-help courses. Begins with a free personality test
that ALWAYS shows you have serious mental problems.
2. Dianetics: a kind of quack psychotherapy in which you revisit
all the bad stuff that ever happened to you, from conception
onward.
3. Scientology: you discover that you are an immortal being, and you
need therapy for all the shit that happened to you in all your
previous lives, too.
4. Advanced Scientology (the Operating Thetan levels): you discover
that you are possessed by the spirits of murdered space aliens,
and they need therapy too. Bad news: they have no money,
so you have to pay.
5. SP level: you decide that Scientology is bullshit, and leave.
The cult declares you an enemy and Suppressive Person,
and harasses you for the next 10 years.
For people desiring to learn more about Scientology, I suggest
skipping the intro stuff and starting right in on the space aliens.
Visit http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets for valuable data on this
important topic.
-- Dave Touretzky, KoX (SP4.9): unpaid antagonist.
Tommy
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:09:15 GMT, "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Cheap....really cheap.
> >
> >But that's your only recourse, so you think.
> >
> >Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
> >
> > The way out IS
> >
> You do not have the answers you need. Many have followed the path you
> are going down. They end up babbling questions and answers for and to
> unreal things.
And BANG goes another irony meter!
Tommy
--
"Give me the scene, give me the scene, give me scene! I've had loses on
the why. I knowed there was catamounts in them mountings!"
(L. Ron Hubbard in one of his more lucid moments)
Zinj
Tommysp**ges...@xs.net says...
Lurky is at least OTV
Obviously
(and I know he's functioned both as staff and public because he's told
me)
Very likely Lurky is one of the 'furthest up the bridge' handlers this
newsgroup has had. It might behoove us to nurture him :)
Zinj
Zinj
zinj...@yahoo.com says...
Let me explain, just so this doesn't get crazy
Lurky is why I didn't think PhilC was a 'troll'.
The realization that upper level Scientologists (this means you Lurky :)
*do* believe that even if Hubbard made mistakes, they were planned....
You get the drift?
The only 'clams' I've seen on ARS that presented that position; that
Elron planned his own mistakes, were first PhilC, then (whom I'd heard it
from before) Lurk.
I recognized PhilC as non-troll because Lurkmonster had explained the
same things to me before.
If critics think they're joshing ya.... you're off.
This *is* what upper level Scientologists think
It's not 'wrong' but it's wacky :) And both Phil and Lurk could justify
murdering us, or putting us in concentration camps...
Because They know what they're doing is right.
It's a thing to remember
Zinj
Tommy
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 16:39:22 -0800, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <bjcp4u8je8ji7bdr2...@4ax.com>,
> >lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 16:23:35 -0800, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <p2cp4ugg56op895ku...@4ax.com>,
> >> >lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 16:05:27 -0800, Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >In article <t1ap4u05qe8bndb0p...@4ax.com>,
> >> >> >lurkm...@yahoo.com says...
> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:37:16 GMT, "Magoo"
<mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Lurkmonster" <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:09:15 GMT, "Magoo"
<mag...@worldnet.att.net>
> >> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >Cheap....really cheap.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >But that's your only recourse, so you think.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >Don't forget Hubbard's last PL:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > The way out IS
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> You do not have the answers you need. Many have followed the
path you
> >> >> >> >> are going down. They end up babbling questions and answers for
and to
> >> >> >> >> unreal things.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> You better check your sources carefully.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >There is only *one* 'Source'
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And have you decided not to reply to me? Lurky baby! We love you!
> >> >> >
> >> >> I have a fondness for you too.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Then come on now! Tell me how my 'pseudo-lurky-answer' differs from
> >> >yours?
> >> >
> >> >Where have I gone wrong understanding you? :)
> >> >
> >> >Wog 'tech' uses 'correction'
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh, let me count the ways you have gone wrong. :) Maybe later.
> >>
> >
> >Double tch
> >
> >Lurky... Believe me, I know how much Scientolgists® *hate* having people
> >tell them what they think.
> >
> >I'm just asking you to tell me what's wrong in this:
> >
> >____________________________________
> >Scientology isn't capable of presenting logically convincing evidence for
> >any of its claims because there are none. L.Ron Hubbard arrived on our
> >poor doomed planet with all the knowledge we need to save it and
> >ourselves... but since he arrived at a point on the time-track where
> >Science was a buzzword, he presented his knowledge to the ignorant 'wogs'
> >in 'scientific' trappings.
> >
>
> You are mixing what little knowledge of scientology you have acquired
> with the little knowledge of other religions you have acquired. You
> have blended into something you think will trap me.
>
> >This wasn't 'dishonest', since L.Ron Hubbard by definition could never
> >be dishonest; rather, because he realized the difficulty of the material,
> >he 'faked us out' by offering a 'bait and switch' portal to Total
> >Freedom.
> >
>
> You are combining other determined thought with falsehood and
> assigning that to LRH as the source of such.
>
> >Once a 'preclear' began getting 'tech' training, Elron removed the
> >implanted 'rejection circuits' from his being, so that he could 'realize'
> >the 'truth'.
> >
> Back to other religion mixing, assigning Elron (spelling error big
> time) as the magical being that saves the PC. When it is the PC, with
> the help of an auditor using scientology tech, who saves himself.
>
> >Every single person who correctly applied L.Ron Hubbard's 'tech' became
> >'free' and is now 'saved' as well as a voluable promotor of Scientology®.
> >
> No one has reached the end of the bridge yet.
Not true.
1994 Gunnarson, Vicktor death Vicktor Gunnarson died somewhere between the 3
and 7 of January of 1994. Vicktor was the individual aquitted in the
assassination in Sweden of Olay Palme, the high ranking Swedish politician.
They are tracking Gunnarson's connection to Scientology. Detectives found a
number of Scientology books at his place of residence. A reporter mentioned
something about a $2 million offer to assassinate Palme being found or
implicated or implied somewhere in his records.
1993 Argue, Michael psychosis In 1993, Michael Argue had two psychotic
breaks. He became involved in Scientology in 1971. His first break was in
the 1980s while doing OT levels at the LA Organization. He is living on
Family Benefits (disability pension) for chronic depression. He is on Prozac
for depression and valium and states that he looks forward to bodily death
to escape his situation in life.
1992-3 Todd Hunter, Sue inducement to suicide Sue Todhunter was about 46. It
happened around 1992-93. Her brother-in-law, George Ward is now out of
Scientology and lives in LA. (suspected "end-of-cycle" auditing)
1992 Luell, Mickey negligence Mickey Luell, a Scientology course supervisor,
died of a flu but was at the time involved in Scientology auditing and
processes. FACT's source is suspicious that Scientology prevented or
discouraged his getting proper medication.
1992, Oct. Baker, (first name unknown) suicide A person with the last name
of Baker committed suicide somewhere in Europe.
1992 name unknown attempted suicide FACT's source described a young guy who
tried to conunit suicide in early 1992 at the Gold Scientology Center. He
was in his teens to early 20s. He was a jumor of a guy named Ulf who was a
foreigner, maybe from Sweden. This guy was in the mixing group with the
sound people. He had brown hair, puggy and boyish looking, obviously young.
Something happened to cause him to attempt suicide at the Gold Center.
1991 Echavarria, (first name unknown) CORRECTION suspected suicide (Reported
in "Scientology Faces Two New Suits" in CAN newsletter). Maria Echavarria's
son died unexpectedly. Scientology owed her son some $50,000. There is
suspicion that the son may have committed suicide, and the death was not
just accidental. IN FACT'S JANUARY MAILING THIS NAME WAS INCORRECTLY SPELLED
"Echararria."
1991, May Simon, Karen suicide Karen Simon died by hanging herself in London
England in May 1991, shortly apter she refused to sign a Sea Organization
contract. She was preparing a negative report on Scientology at the time of
her death.
1990-2 name unknown death A young guy at the Gold Land base died while
taking high doses of hydrogen peroxide as part of some brain research
project. They had to get an ambulance out to the Scientology Gold Center to
haul him away. There was quite a commotion to get his body out of there.
1990, Sept. names unknown suicide Reported by the October 21, 1991 "DER
SPIEGEL" and reprinted in the Newkirk Herald Journal. The last two
paragraphs report a drug therapist who knew of two addicts who committed
suicide after leaving Narconon, where the purification rundown was done.
They committed suicide just after they left the program.
1990, Sept. Keel, Pius suicide Reported in October 21, 1991 DER SPIEGEL Pius
Keel, 22, Germany, threw himself under a tram after Scientology got all his
money.
1990s Petschek, Cladia suicide A women named Cladia Petschek committed
suicide. She was a mission staff member, and she committed suicide in Canada
within the last 4 years. She was still active in Scientology.
1990 (last name unknown), Bob suicide Bob was a real estate agent who lived
around the Utica, Michigan area. He committed suicide in 1990 while
receiving Scientology services.
1990 Mooney, Ed negligence Ed Mooney or Money, C 16 and OT8, died at age 37
of aneurysm about 3 weeks after completing OT8 at Flag m the fall of 1990.
He was a very good FSM in LA. Scientology and family postulated he'd get
better. He was in a hospital - but not a really good one. His wife, Patty
Mooney, remarried about 6 months later in LA.
1989 Wakefield, Margery attempted suicide 9 April 1989, Margery had started
in treatment with a counselor at Northside Center, and was being seen by Dr.
Dagon for medication. However, her functioning on the unit continued to
deteriorate to the point that her relationships with her peers disintegrated
and at one point she became totally unable to work on the unit and left work
early. On this occasion, she apparently made a suicide gesture and was
subsequently hospitalized. Her suicide attempts are directly related to past
Scientology auditing.
1989 or 90 name unknown coverup of death An older Sea Organization member
died. FACT's source heard OSA agents talking about keeping it quiet. The
death of this individual occured between November '89 and April '90.
1988-90 Kugler, Ryan attempted suicide Ryan Kugler is an adolescent (age 10)
who tried to commit suicide at Delphi, Oregon by hanging himself. He had
been kicked out of school but was admitted to LA Delphi about 1986 and
Oregon Delphi about 1988-1990. He is still in Scientology now.
late 1980's. three names: Jane Winkler, Gene Trout, and David Sandieweis
suicides? No locations reported.
1987 Argue, Michael attempted suicide In 1987, Michael Argue attempted
suicide after his marriage break-up. His wife was in Scientology too.
1986-7 Filmsky, Betty cancer The first Solo NOTS completion (what
Scientology calls honest) was Betty Filinsky. She was also highly trained.
She died of lung cancer around 1986 or 7. She was the ex-wife of John
Filinsky.
????? Filmsky, Betty cancer John Filinsky's first wife, Betty Filinsky, was
first Solo NOTS completion and died of lung cancer, I think right after her
"world tour" as the latest great success of NOTS auditing.
1986-8 Moro (Klinger), Cat psychosis Between 1986 and 88 Cat Moro (Klinger)
became psychotic while on auditing and was taken to the home of wealthy
Scientologist, Marshall Goldblatt, and kept there for months while she was
psychotic. Her husband, Jim Moro, and she were both in the OSA/GO. Jim was
in charge for tax task force which helped get them their IRS tax exemption.
Apparently, after 3 or 4 months at Goldblatt's Cat was transferred back to
where she could be watched all the time and became a folder administrator at
AOLA. These incidents all occurred between 1986 and 88. Maggie Butterworth
is the person who supervised the situation with Cat Moro, the security risk
who became psychotic.
1986 Rimando, Rodney CORRECTION suicide Rodney Rimondo jumped out a window
at either the Celebrity Center or the LA Organization. Irene was the mother
who allegedly got no settlement from Scientology. IN FACT'S JANUARY MAILING
THIS NAME WAS INCORRECTLY SPELLED "RAMANDO."
1986 or 87 Hippe, Laura suicide Laura Hippe, the women who committed
suicide, was a famous Hollywood drama teacher who taught many of the stars.
She was Skip Press' girlfriend. Apparently Skip Press, who is very good
friends with Heber Jentzsch, the president of the Church of Scientology, got
together with Heber and created a shore story to cover up and to direct
attention away from the bad PR of Laura Hippe's suicide. The GO/OSA went to
wherever Laura Hippe had been and altered or removed all evidence that would
implicate Scientology in the death, before the police amved and did their
police report. Laura Hippe taught acting m 1985-86.
????? Hippe, Laura suicide Laura had been to a Chaplain's Court to handle
some problems between Skip and her. She came home afterwards and took an
overdose of drugs. I'm sorry, but I don't remember what year this was.
1986 name unknown psychotic A young man m his 20's jumped from the Manor m
Hollywood, though the report does not say that he died. He was a new
recruit. There was a shore story alleging that he was a CIA operative sent
to discredit Scientology by killing himself.
1985 Johnstone, Lee suicide Lee Johnstone was baby watched. He was a member
of the Guardian's Office Staff m 1985 before he flipped out and committed
suicide.
1984-? name unknown suicide Hawaiian mission holder was physically thrown
out of his mission by three or four missionaires. Shortly thereafter he
committed suicide.
1984-5 (last name unknown), Jean-Marc suicide In New York; some connection
with Celebrity Center; involved with a girl who had joined the Sea
Organization. He had pockets full of Scientology promo when he died.
1984 Baker, David. suicide Technical Secretary David Baker of St. Hill was
an OT 3 in 1984. Committed suicide.
1982-84 Lionini, Paolo cancer At Ben Kugler's Florida condo, Paolo
Lionira -- a staff member at Delphi Oregon -- died while on lines at Flag.
Poalo wrote the book called Lepsig Died. He died in Clearwater, FL between
1982- 84 at 100 Pierce St #602 or 603. He was getting auditing at Flag while
he had cancer.
1983 Cloud, David Orin death David Orm Cloud died on June 5, 1983 in a car
accident. He was in LA for auditing before he died. He thought he was going
to die. FACT's source said his comments were, "He thought he was going to
die, because he was just giving up." She doesn't know much more. He was
thirty years old. He was involved with the Better Baby Institute. He was
involved in Scientology for 8 or 9 years beginrang in 1977.
1983 McCann, Terry Purification Rundown - death Terry McCann had his retinas
detach while on the purification rundown from all the sweat outs and
whatever they were putting him through. He went blind from this. He went
into a depression from this and died or committed suicide.
1983 xxxxx Purification Rundown - injury "I nearly died on the Purif at the
Boston Organization. I didn't know it at the time. I had a heat stroke in
the sauna, stopped perspiring, teeth started chattering, and things kept
blacking-out on me, visually. I put on all of my winter clothes and went
back into the sauna (I was by myself at this point, as there was only one
other guy on the Purif with me, and our schedules weren't quite the same),
and I still felt freezing cold. I climbed from the basement to the second
floor (lots of stairs) where the D of P told me that "the way out is the way
through," and that's what came back from the CS, too. If the Admin who was
supposed to see that I got back into the sauna, hadn't violated orders and
forcibly pushed me into a cool shower, I might well have died, "just
following orders." I had another heat stroke, or at least heat exhaustion (I
had different symptoms, and the diagnosis varied between the two), in 1990.
My last doctor suspected that I have hypothalamus damage - which can be
neither tested nor treated. He checked my electrolyte reports from the last
heat stroke, and he said that they didn't seem in a low enough range to have
caused the damage he suspects. I've been too embarrassed to tell my doctor
about the Purif heat stroke - it may be where I started having these
problems - but I can't do a whole lot about it anyway. When I had a heat
stroke on the Purif, the D of P was Jeannie Scoglio, the C/S was either Ken
Sermo or Rick Siegal (spelling?) at Boston Organization. The Admm who pushed
me into the shower/saved my life was Rich Gerard. Otherwise, I'd have died
all alone in that sauna in a lonely comer of the Boston Organization
basement. I believe that all of these people are still in Scientology, and
most are still at the Boston Organization, Day staff.
1982 Brewer, Ed negligence Ed Brewer was involved in a car accident. Several
other Sea Organization or Scientology Staff members were in the car with
him. They left him in the car to bleed to death while they went back to the
Scientology organization to talk to the people in the intelligence division,
because they didn't know what to do. They didn't want to create a public
relations flap for Scientology. When they did this, they failed to call for
medical help. Brewer literally bled to death pinned in this car.
1981-2 Spheeris, Jimmie death Jimmie Spheeris died in an auto accident on
approximately July 4, 1981 or 82. At the time he was on the Philadelphia
doctorate course and getting auditing. He was a homosexual and was being
given a lot of stress about being a homosexual and being in Scientology
courses.
This somehow may link into the homosexual pressures that Travolta has been
put under involving Scientology. It may not. The implication from the
contributor is somehow the stress and pressure that Shpeeris was put under
was connected to Scientology and his death. His sister was director Penelope
Shpeeris.
1981 name unknown uncertain Chuck Newton called himself "Detective Chaz Dee"
when he'd go snooping. I remember him telling me about a guy who lived near
Willows or maybe Marysville, and both he and his dad were OT's.
1981 Maxwell, Robert and ????? cancer Robert Maxwell. Robert & his dad were
Flag public. Anyway, xxxxx said that Robert's father developed terminal (I
think) cancer, but didn't have to quit auditing because he heard (at Flag? I
think so) that you could cure cancer by drinking rocket fuel, and he did,
and it cured the cancer, and he kept getting his auditing. I don't know what
happened to Robert or his dad after this, which was around 1981, I think.
early 1980's (last name unknown), Hugh suicide A male named Hugh (last name
unknown), who was an independent C\S at the advanced organization of Los
Angeles (AO), committed suicide.
1980-1 Duchette, Gay suicide In 1980, I received a call from Gay Duchette.
She had left the Riverside Scientology Mission. She related to me that she
had given all she owned to Scientology. When her money was gone she was
persuaded get a loan on her home to continue with Scientology. When she
could not repay the loan she lost the house. Her father, who had given her
the house or paid the down payment for it, was in a rage. She said several
men had kept her in a room trying to make her sign over the house to
Scientology. She had due cause for a suit aganst Scientology. It was in big
trouble over loans in Riverside but she was not strong enough to stand up to
the pressure of a suit. I gave her what support I could. I wanted to talk to
her father but she was against it. I put her in touch with another former
Scientologist. Gay was unmarried so Duchette is the family name. I think she
had a brother named Jim. She came to a CFF meeting in Culver City and may
have visited our house. I spoke with her by phone several times. When I
called sometime after Sept 81 I was told she had taken her life. Riverside
is a long way from Redondo Beach so I cannot research Riverside records for
date of death. This is the best data I can provide from memory.
1981 name unknown suicide (Reported by the actual C/S of the person who
committed suicide) A female doctor from Flint, Michigan committed suicide.
FACT's source remembers the person having problems with her boyfriend. "This
women is still involved in doing some auditing. I don't know if she is yet
willing to admit the upsetting influence auditing can be and the coercive
influence."
1981 Streim, Melvin psychosis I went to junior high and high school
(Belmont, MA, Class of 1969) with Melvin Streim. He went to Harvard, and I
went on to my life. I saw him again in early 1981 at the Boston Foundation
Organization, where he was on staff, probably Estates. He was completely
spaced and barely remembered me, though we'd shared years of classes
("accelerated" and AP) together, usually sitting just two seats away. He
vaguely remembered the name of his best friend (they were best buddies for
at least 6 years) when I mentioned it. His second job (moonlighting) was as
a bag boy at the Star Market on the Cambridge/Watertown line. He was getting
worse and worse in Scientology, forgetting to shave, dressing in dirty
clothes, and generally out-of-touch with reality. They off-loaded him around
1983 or 4. I don't know what happened to him. I tried to find his family in
Belmont, but they've either died or moved. I didn't work very hard on that,
but I've felt badly about him. Mel was always a bit of a misfit in school
but he wasn't nuts. When he was off- loaded, he was defimtely schizophrenic,
and broke. How does a former Harvard student, end up as a bag boy? Tragic.
1980-82 Hubbard-Horwich, Diana psychosis In 1980-82 1 was corresponding with
Diana Hubbard Horwich who was definitely close to the edge in late 1980 and
early 1981. I wasn't in great shape, myself. We kept exchanging hopelessly
inane letters about the weather. I don't have any positive proof, but we had
an understanding, a certain undercurrent where we were both severely
stressed. I'll bet you can find people with more definite info. I can just
say, yes, absolutely, she was having a very difficult time back then.
1980-81 Newton, Chuck psychosis My ex-husband, Chuck Newton, went nuts on
audited NOTs. He was not very stable to start with, and he kept "going PTS"
by "having problems" at work, problems where he just couldn't stay faithful,
etc. He was miserable, and his behavior was just out of control. One night,
he beat a litter of newborn puppies to death with a shovel. He felt that his
behavior was out of control. We moved, but it didn't seem to help. We sent
him to Flag to "get handled." He reached a "flat point" on audited NOTs
(meaning: he ran out of money) and he came home completely bizarre. He sat
and watched Cable Network News almost 24 hours a day. [ don't know when he
slept ....
1980-81 Karr, Dale psychosis The woman my ex-husband is living with is
Marilyn Fox. Her last husband--I'm trying to remember his name--Dale Cart or
Karr, I think. Anyway, he was an ethics officer at some mission around LA,
and in the mid-1980's. He cracked up one night and kidnapped Marilyn's two
children plus the one they'd had together. He took off to another state. I
don't know if she ever got the children back again, or what happened. I know
that only one child is living with her, and the other two are still young
enough to be at home, but they aren't with her. This is fuzzy, but I'm
trying to think of everthing in case my pieces fill in the gaps of someone
else's memories.
The people who will talk about Dale Karr/Carr are Marilyn's first husband's
family, since her first husband was the father of two of the children who
were kidnapped. His name is Chuck Peden, his mother is Lorena Peden, and his
sister is Jonna or Janna Jones (Mrs. Steve ? Jones), all of Chico, CA. They
don't want to talk with me anymore, due to my connection to Chuck Newton,
who Marilyn's living with.
1980 Duchette, Gay vulnerable and bilked Gay Duchette had left the Riverside
Scientology Mission. She related to me that she had given all she owned to
Scientology. When her money was gone she was persuaded get a loan on her
home to continue with Scientology. When she could not repay the loan she
lost the house. Her father, who had given her the house or paid the down
payment for it, was in a rage. She said several men had kept her in a room
trying to make her sign over the house to Scientology. She had due cause for
a suit aganst Scientology. It was in big trouble over loans in Riverside,
but she was not strong enough to stand up to the pressure of a suit. Gay was
unmarried so Duchette is the family name. I think she had a brother named
Jim.
1980s name unknown vulnerable and bilked Jean (Mrs. Paul) Discher (then D of
P, Boston Day Organization) told some woman from Maine (he hasn't remembered
the name yet) that she would die if she didn't buy a certain service.
early 80's Clark, Robert cancer Robert Clark, tech sec fdn. in the Adelaide
Cof S, had throat problems. He had been undergoing such treatment as being
locked in all night because his stats were not up. He had been coerced into
leaving his wife and selling some of their property to send money to Flag.
Bob developed the cancer in the Organization before he left. I am in contact
with his ex-wife who is a prominent musician recently retired.
early 80's Vigeland, Eric psychosis Eric Vigeland was in Scientology in
Boston in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I worked with him on "The Show," a
covert Scientology "free concert" at which we distributed Way to Happiness
booklets. Eric had been a psych case, I think. He inherited some money, gave
it all to the fund to help Mary Sue in the USGO/FBI lawsuit, and got a bunch
of auditing as a "reward." He was not a very stable person, and even by
Scientology standards, he should have been shown the door. Scientology knew
Eric was not stable when they took him in, and it's not rlght to take every
cent from someone who is ill-equipped to survive on his own in society. I
expect that's why his parents left him the money, so they wouldn't have to
worry about his care when they were gone.
1979 Marshall, Joe Lee psychosis In 1979, Joe Lee Marshall went psychotic on
NOTS. Many many people back in '79 were going psychotic on NOTS, NED for
OTs, and it was being suppressed.
1978-9 Griffin, John suicide John Griffin committed suicide on OT2 in
Dallas. He left a suicide note. His wife's name was Avel Griffin.
1978-9 name unknown suicide The man who was in charge of Op-Z for the
Portland Organization jumped to his death from the Freemont bridge in
Portland. Specific details are unknown.
1978 Brown, Leila Laten suicide Leila Laten Brown, or Lila Leighton, (26
years old at the time) jumped from an apartment building several blocks from
the San Francisco Scientology Organization. She had been receiving ervices
there. Before commiting suicide, she went to the home of another
Scientologist (FACT's source doesn't know the name). Her boyfriend at the
time was a Doug Arth, who was also a Scientologist.
late '70s name unknown suicide A guy committed suicide in Royal Oak,
Michigan.
late 1970s Gervais, Gloria psychosis Gloria Gervais (spelling?) was found
wandering down the middle of Beacon Street (major, heavy- traffic street in
Back Bay Boston, where the Organization is) while on auditing·
late 1970's McDonough, Jack psychosis Also there was Jack McDonough (again,
spelling?) who was another person seeing space invaders all around, and
that's while he was the Academy Sup, Boston Day Organization.
late 70's name unknown psychosis While I was at St. Hill an unknown woman
was secretly escorted home to Germany because she had become mentally ill on
the OT levels· I was told by a friend who was on staff. I don't remember
which one though.
1977-1982 Mayer, Scott neglect According to Mayer: "Staff members were
always ill-fed, ill-clothed .... I had an abscess in my tooth and I was
being audited for it. I'm ready to go to the dentist, and I was being
audited for it. I spent about a week, week-and-a-half, doing... what they
call touch assists to get rid of the pain.. ·. And, finally... I was just
delirious and--well, there wasn't any money for medical is what it boiled
down to .... I went to the dentist... he told me I'd just made it... if it
had been another day or so, I wouldn't be here to talk to you."
1977 Hubbard, Quentin alleged murder xxxxx is a former member of the
intelligence division (B I) of Scientology. Spanky says Kennedy saw the
Quentin Hubbard files. From what he saw in the files he believed that L. Ron
Hubbard ordered the death of Quentin Hubbard once he reached the hospital,
and was alive, after his suicide attempt. The reason he thought Hubbard had
his son murdered (reading the reports from the people in Los Vegas) even
though they were vetted he saw what he firmly believed was an operation to
end the embarrassment of Quentin Hubbard.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin alleged murder This also parallels with another report
we got where xxxxx said that Quentin Hubbard was going around the Land base
telling everyone his father was insane. This could have provided the
motivation for Hubbard (L. Ron) to take care of his son after he attempted
suicide·
1977 Hubbard, Quentin alleged murder Another BI GO person who was OT on the
Los Vegas Quentin Mission believed this same situation: that Hubbard's son
was taken off life support or something like that.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin alleged murder Vaughn Young believes Quentin Hubbard
was dead on arrival at the hospital. [So there is some conflict about what
happened. Vaughn has looked over these reports. Quentin Hubbard lived but
allegedly was murdered in his hosp room by Scientology members]
1977 Hubbard, Quentin alleged murder Quentin's girlfriend before his death
(abt. 1976) was Sue Berstein, a CCLA Div. 6 reg. (If Quentin was gay, then
he was bi-sexual or Sue was a shore story. But she was definitely in love
back then, and I remember Q sending her flowers.) We used to jokingly say
her name so it sounded like "Super Steen" so I don't know if I have the
spelling right. But Quentin seemed to fail at everything. He just loved
airplanes, period. He was secretly taking drawing lessons from Larry Gluck
at the beach at Flag, so no one would know if he failed. Also, his former
bodyguard (Scandinavian name ·.. I don't remember right now) said that it
definitely was not a suicide. I have my own way of piecing together the
story, and I agree that it might not have been suicide. But I don't have
anything vaguely resembling hard evidence.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin suicide or murder I was told by a source very close to
the family that he was found naked in the car and that it "was not murder."
I confirm the report of earlier suicide attempts while in the SO. He was put
in isolation for several weeks after his 1974 suicide attempt to
"destimulate" and eventually then put on the RPF.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin suicide or murder About Quentin Hubbard. Denms Erlich
has written that he was Quentin's auditor and that Quentin was going around
declaring that his father was insane. Not long after that he was found dead.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin suicide or murder Arti Maren was the Intelligence
missionmare handling the public relations around the Quentin Hubbard death
in Los Vegas.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin suicide or murder Denms Erlich was the last person to
speak with Quentin Hubbard before he lef~ Flag. Erlich actually performed a
cramming function on him.
1977 Hubbard, Quentin suicide or murder Bruce Raymound was the B 1 guy who
did the dirty work on the Quentin Hubbard death situation in Las Vegas. He
is the guy who would know for sure and who would have been most involved in
the dirtiest part of the coverup or the actual murder.
1976 Fenton, Becky inducement to suicide In the Boston Organization around
1976, Becky Fenton (Mrs. Bill Fenton, Jr.) was told that since she refused
to have an abortion (so her husband could use the obstetrician/childbirth
money for services instead) then she ought to go kill herself and "get it
over with." Becky is probably still upset about being told to commit
suicide. Becky lives around Brewer or Bar Harbor, Maine. I can probably
locate her, if it's of any help. She has never done any major services, but
her husband keeps wandering in and out of Scientology. His parents are
Scienos.
1976 King, Noel psychosis Noel King went over the edge on OT3. He gave up an
enormously successful career at a resort in the Bahamas, and moved to LA to
be a full-time Scientologist. He was treated like a god, since he still had
lots of money from the sale of his assets. Noel stopped being able to sleep
properly while on OT3. I went for a walk with him in the middle of the
night, down to Hollywood Blvd. He told me that he kept seeing himself being
pulled into some sort of force field, and then back out of it, and he
couldn't stop these pictures from flashing, and he couldn't sleep properly.
This was around 1976. He also thought he'd been Jesus Christ and Napoleon,
in previous lives. I don't know what happened to Noel. I saw photos of him
in early Flag promo showing the diningroom, but when I asked about him in
1988, no one at Flag seemed to recognize his name.
1976 name unknown threatened suicide I remember that one of my C1 IV intem
auditors at CCLA was graduated solely because he successfully talked one of
his pc's in from a ledge on the building. At some point mid-session, she had
gone nuts and decided to kill herself. I don't recall my auditor's name; I
had him for just a couple of sessions, and they graduated him & he was gone.
(Did they get him out of there to hush the tale?)
1976 xxxxx psychosis I went nuts on Power and Power Plus./Right over the
edge. I thought I was moving through space, and that I didn't have my "new
ability" under control. I'd be driving down the Hollywood Freeway, and I'd
find myself in downtown LA, with no idea how I got there. Then I started
itching all over, under my skin, like an allergy. My nerves were shot. I was
the Acting ED of Larry Gluck's school, while he was at Flag, and I was
rapidly losing my hold on reality. I went to ASHO to tell them that I was
PTS or something. They put me in session, told me I was a "completion," and
routed me out. No Reg cycle, nothing. I could barely scrawl the success
story. I was in a daze. I quit Larry's school a couple of days later, and
went back to Northem California, where it took me months to be able to
function normally again.
1976 name unknown psychosis There's a guy in LA... he's well-known among
"old timers" because he sits in Bob's Big Boy restaurants, writing pages &
pages of reports to Scientology about space invaders & such. In 1976, I was
introduced to him by Gary Rist, at the Big Boy in Glendale(?) and he was
quite mad. He'd supposedly gone nuts on OT3.
1975-6 Rist, Gary psychosis I remember Gary Rist, a staff member at CCLA,
had a breakdown. He had a major crush on me and kept going on drinking
binges; HCO asked me to keep an eye on him. I went with him to visit his
father one weekend, up at Bear Lake where his father owns a motel or
something. Anyway, Gary got drunk and was physically abusive. I had a
terrible time getting him back to LA, but I got him there, took him to SEA
Organization berthing, and dropped him there. Regardless of HCO orders, I
wasn't taking physical abuse. I don't know what happened to him. HCO never
said anything about him again, and I never saw him at CCLA. The Disney Alumm
Club might have a current address for him. Scientology - and his untreated
alcoholism - ruined what had been a promising acting career.
1975-6 name unknown suicide A married man with money from the East Coast (PA
or NY) shot himself to death after auditing OT levels.
1975-- Wilson (Kaup), Shirley various Shirley Wilson, ex-wife of David J.
Kaup reports suicide attempt (1977), disruption of family (1978), and denial
of needed orthodonic treatment to her daughter (1982).
mid 70s Gerrold, Bobby cancer Bobby Gerrold (spelling?), a good friend, died
of cancer. I'm not certain when, but it was probably in the mid-to-late
1970's. He was at least OT3. Near as I can tell from accounts, he postponed
medical treatment, kept getting auditing, and when he was obviously dying,
they told him he couldn't get anymore auditing. By then he was bankrupted by
the auditing, and it was too late for medical intervention anyway. Bobby was
originally from Texas, I think. I knew him at Alan Walter's Salt Lake City
mission.
mid-70sname unknown psychosis Some pc was crawling across the floor at
reception in mid-1970s CCLA, making weird whimpering noises. Yvonne
apparently saw the woman on the floor and cheerfully said, "Oh, that's just
(name)." This was an enduring anecdote at CCLA, showing how "big a being"
Yvonne was, and how tolerant CC was of "eccentricities."
1974 Dardano, Robert psychosis "I became a member of the Church of
Scientology in 1974. In March of 1974 I was routed off the Church of
Scientology staff for being PTS Type 3. PTS Type 3 is a Scientology term
which classifies persons to be insane if they are anti-Scientology.
1974 names unknown murder At what was known as Old AOLA Organization on
Brendo Street, two advanced orgamzation staff members were found murdered in
the trash bin behind the building.
1973 Anderson, Kirk psychosis I was not at the mission the day (between July
and October 1973) Kirk Anderson came in with a shotgun and threatened the
SLC mission staff because we were alienating him from his new-Scio wife,
Yolanda. However, I was there the rest of the time when Kirk and Yolanda
first came in, through when Yolanda lef~ for the SO. Yolanda is the same
person mentioned in "the informer," who's child was a victim of terrible
Scientology childcare and I have her mailing address somewhere. Kirk was the
ED of the Salt Lake mission for years, and I suspect he's still on staff
there.
1973 Dalton, Jim psychosis Jim Dalton supposedly had drug flashbacks from
going too quickly onto the mucusless diet in 1973. He was a Scio in Salt
Lake City and Geri Knight (ED) told him that the mucusless diet was what he
needed. I answered the phone at the mission a couple of times when he was
talking about the visions he was having .... The mother of his son, Martha
Tatum (new last name?), is an exec in Denver .... Others who knew that he'd
gone nuts and he was on orders not to come into the mission: Dick Cook
(course sup), Geri Knight (gd), Frances Godwin (D of P), Chuck Newton
(course sup/auditor), Jay Gibson (auditor), Dave West (auditor), Hazel
Dominguez West (auditor, course sup), Joe Duncanson (estates), Lindy
Duncanson (public), Charlotte Sandoval (public), and others whose names I've
forgotten. Hazel is still in Scientology and is a cab driver in Salt Lake
City, and I've already mentioned Frances and Chuck. Joe & Lindy Duncanson
are FSMs in Colorado.
1973 Surry, Steve psychosis Steve Surry (spelling?) kept having psychotic
breaks, while he was the ED of Alan Walter's Salt Lake City mission. He'd be
screaming his lungs out during sessions, begging for someone, anyone to help
him. His auditor, Geri Knight, swore that he was just running out
dramatizations, as if this was really good for him. I think Steve is still
happily in Scientology.
1970's Robertson, Bill psychosis "Capt. Bill" (LA Organization and AOLA,
t970's) is on your list. Surely he had a family somewhere who watched him go
insane in Scientology. In the research of this rundown on Flag, Captain Bill
Robertson had numerous psychotic breaks.
early 70's name unknown criminal acts In the early 70s, an older gentleman,
a staff member either at the Mission or the Scientology Organization had a
heart attack while he was in the building. The staff members were afraid
that it would reflect badly on Scientology so they took his body out of the
organization where he died, stripped him naked, stripped him of his ID, (she
wasn't quite certain if they stripped him naked but is sure they took his
ID) and put the dead body in a trash dumpster several blocks away.
1972 Gutmann, Mike suicide A set of twins were involved in Scientology and
one of the twin brothers, Mike Gutmann, committed suicide.
1970's Patterson, Randy suicide Randy Patterson, former husband of Laurie
(Best) Patterson, shot himself to death while on a Solo auditing level,
probably the 'clearing course.' This was in the 70s when AOLA was located at
the present celebrity center annex.
1970s Klein, Keith suicide A Keith Kline or Klein from the Detroit area
killed himself by gunshot in the middle 1970s. He had done 'processing' and
'training' there and some courses in L.A. FACT's source remembers a Keith
Kline or Klein who was a staff member, class IV auditor, and course
supervisor on the ASHO briefing course who committed suicide. Keith's father
committed suicide and he became very depressed over this. Keith got auditing
at ASHO for this depression and suddenly left and went to Detroit where his
family saw how depressed he was and possibly put him in a mental hospital.
Then he came out and committed suicide.
The question surrounding this individual is that the auditing that he had
may have aggravated his suicidal tendencies when he was already depressed
about his father's suicide. The Guardian's Office was notified by Ron Neuman
that he believed his friend was in trouble and suicidal. Ron notified the
police.
????? Kline, Keith suicide Keith Kline, a person from Detroit who had money,
worked for Ron Neuman. He was on OT 3 when he committed suicide.
early 1970's Schaeffer, Paul suicide FACT's source knew of the suicide of a
friend of a friend who had just left the group. His name was Paul Schaeffer.
At the time, I was told that he got "messed up" because he left the group.
1971 Meister, Susan suicide or murder Susan Meister had a very intense
argument with Hubbard before she committed suicide in public on the decks of
the Apollo. FACT's source was standing on deck on watch at the time and saw
it all occur.
An article in the LA Times, Tuesday August 29, 1978, "Scientology Mystery"
talks about the Miester suicide.
Arti Marren is reported to have been involved in the coverup of Susan
Meister's death.
1970-71 Burner, Charles inducement to suicide xxxxx, a former high-level
Scientology exective, was ordered by Hubbard to reverse audit enemies of
Scientology if there was opportunity to do so. The purpose was to induce
psychosis or suicide. He was actually sent on a mission to capture Charles
Burner, a former high level Scientology auditor who had started a group
called the Abilitism. According to FACT's source, he was ordered to capture
or reverse audit or murder Charles Burner.
1970-71 Pruitt, Wayne suicide Wayne Pruitt (Pruett) from Missouri ?????
jumped from the Elks Bldg in Hollywood or the McArthur Park area around
1970-71. The building may not be there now. He was receiving Scientology
service at the time; he is believed to have been on the upper OT levels.
1969 Sharp, James and Gaul, Doreen CORRECTION This is a suggestion to drop
this from the original mailing. Doreen Gaul and James Sharp. I think you're
on very thin ice here. From all evidence, they were victims of some LA
satanic cult. They were found naked, circa 1969, with their eyes gouged out.
James was an incredibly sweet kid from the midwest whose father, Don Sharp,
also a very nice man, was in LA doing advanced courses. I'm unaware of
anything linking Scientology personnel actions in any way to this tragedy.
1969 Esterman (Chaleff), Sally cancer She did have a positive pap smear in
1969 which then reversed after auditing. This may have given her false
confidence in auditing as THE solution. I know that her sister believes she
could have been saved with proper medical care but I believe she's under the
impression that Sally herself rejected this. Months before her death she was
in Mexico in an "alternative" clinic. An SEA Organization recruit had been
assigned to assist her. Incredibly, [her son] was never informed of any of
this. When he found out, she kept giving him the impression she was getting
better, so her own denial was very high. I would appreciate any information
you may have that she was actually denied proper care.
????? Challeff, Sally cancer Sally Challeff, a Scientology staff member, was
allowed to die of treatable cancer.
Circa 1969 name unknown attempted suicide A person on OT levels jumped from
the 10th floor of a building in LA, landed on a car, and incredibly only
broke his arm. I believe his name was Mike, but I don't recall last name.
1968 Stewart, James suicide James Stewart. At the time, Sea Organization
penalties were: Liability, 24 hours sleep deprivation; Doubt, 48 hours sleep
deprivation. The two penalties were cumulative. Stewart was in at the
Advanced Organization in Edinburgh, Scotland. He had injured himself and was
assigned Doubt. In my estimation, the sleep deprivation drove him over the
edge. As reported in the mailing of Jan. 3, 1994, Stewart jumped to his
death in Edinburgh Scotland. He was on OT#, a class 7 auditor, and the
Executive Director of the Durban Organization.
1966-67 Nieman, Malcolm negligence Malcolm Nieman (lives in London) had a
close brush with death. He contracted meningitis, and was audited for many
hours, getting worse by the moment. My husband and I found him unconscious
on the floor (that evening) with severe diarrhoea and vomiting. We got an
ambulance to rush him to hospital. On the way to hospital the ambulance
driver indicated to me that Malcolm was going to die. He didn't, but it was
touch and go for a while.
1960 Halprm, Dick suicide Dick Halprm committed suicide in the early 60's.
He was the author of The Whole Track Security Check.
See? Lotsa people made it to the end of the bridge. And these are just the
ones who offed themselves - this doesn't even count the ones who were killed
by the people they trusted to deliver everlasting life.
Tommy
--
"Once upon a time there was a little thetan. And he was a happy little
thetan and the world was a simple thing. It was all very, very simple.
And then one day somebody told him he was simple. And ever since that
time he's been trying to prove that he is not. And that is the history
of the universe, the human race, the Fifth Invaders, the Fourth
Invaders, the Three-and-a-half Invaders, the people on Mars, Saturn,
Jupiter, Arcturus, the Marcab System, the Psi Galaxy, Galaxy 82."
(GAMES VERSUS NO-GAMES, lecture of 25 October 1956)
barb
Fine...I'll donate a couple shovels full of Bandini Mountain's finest.
It's probably higher quality shit than he's used to.
Starshadow
Lurkmonster wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:47:44 GMT, Mike O'Connor
> <mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <lkjr4uoona6vv8ad6...@4ax.com>,
>>Lurkmonster <lurkm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Speaking of unreal things, Ron used to brag to sf fans (including me)
>>>>that he made all this up to get rich and was proud to be fleecing you
>>>>idiots.
>>>>
>>>>As I recall one of his statements was in the line of "Barnum was right,
>>>>there is a sucker born every minute, and I'm fleecing my share!"
>>>>
>>>Heh well we all know that Ron could have pulled some legs every now
>>>and then if it would smooth over an awkward situation. Some people
>>>just don't seem to get the humor and take everything litterally though
>>>and that can be funny too. Just so you know, I have been around long
>>>enough to be able to feel my leg being pulled. Just don't keep my
>>>socks.
>>>
>>How do you know what the dead cult founder said to Starshadow was the
>>joke and what he wrote for you was not? How do you know it wasn't the
>>other way around? Objectively, which way do you think would make for a
>>funnier joke?
>>
> Well you see you have to be able to tell when your leg is being
> pulled. You see if someone starts talking about the past track (as sci
> fi fans would tend to do) and it seems to upset them, it is sometimes
> best to put their mind at ease. Let things lay if you will.
>
FYI, Lurky, he wasn't joking, he was bragging. He did that a lot among
sf fans. Don't forget this was BEFORE sf was "mainstream", when most
people who saw a person with an sf book would say something on the order
of "you read THAT stuff? How wierd!"
Also, do you think he was making a joke when he opened his hotel bureau
drawer and showed off his pharmaceuticals, in rainbow colors, and
offered them to people in his room parties?
Maybe to augment his "I'm drinking lots of rum and coke and popping
pinks and greys" letter?
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
(to find out what this means go to www.xenu.net)
Magoo
No way was I ever "Lurkmonster" in spirit or actions. I didn't re-post slime
about people, nor was I working as an OSA bot when I came on as Magoo. I
~was poking with the critics...but mostly to go from the low road to the
high road, if you re-call. Ok, so I THOUGHT the high road was
Scientology....I was willing to read things people posted, and thus was able
to wake up.
It takes opening your antenna's..... we shall see if Lurkmonster opens them
up or not.
Hopefully he/she makes the leap and opens um up. He/she is working towards
:Freedom: eh? One who is free SHOULD be able to have his or her antenna's up
and open for reception.
There lies the difference.
Good luck :)
Tory/Magoo!~
"Tommy" <Tommysp**ges...@xs.net> wrote in message
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