"The Profit" Film Crew Goes Picketing
Kng Peter
picketed both the Toronto, Canada and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is the Producer of "The
Profit," a film about a cult leader, which has been relentlessly attacked by
the Scientologists.
About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
In Toronto, we hooked up with Greg Hagglund and the local activists, and
picketed the Toronto Org for three hours last Sunday.
The Org was unprepared for our arrival. At first, a little fellow named Mario
came out to greet the seven or eight protesters. He seemed quite frightened
(God only knows why) and so I apologized for scaring him, but he remained
upset, and after a time went back inside the Org.
Then, a more mature crew came out to "handle" us, and pass out counter picket
fliers.
Some of these people were the usual brainwashed robots, but several of these
Scientologists were actually able to carry on rational conversations. Patricia
engaged a lady named Val Hill in a long conversation. Val wanted to know why
we were picketing. Patricia told her about our music composer's scare. Val,
being a good Scientologist, said that she was sure there was a way to handle
our complaints if we just went up lines and communicated to management our
problem.
I thought to myself, "This is what my ex-wife and Greg and Debbie Barnes, and
all the other loyal Scientologists used to do. They'd just "write up" a
problem and send it "up lines," certain that Scientology was run by logical,
upstanding individuals who would right any wrongs."
Of course, these write ups were never acted upon (except to "Sec Check" the
person doing the write up) because the truth is that the higher up one gets in
Scientology, the crazier and more evil one becomes, and the less likely one is
to right any wrongs. Val Hill doesn't currently understand this, but in time,
like all public Scientologists…she will. That's something to think about,
isn't it Mr. Miscavige? Think about it: the more you reveal yourself, the
faster the public will blow and the faster Scientology will shrink.
I had to break away from the (actually intelligent) discussion between Val and
Patricia because Peter Ramsey, another Scientologist, was following Greg
Hagglund around, frightening him. Greg was visibly upset by Peter's pursuit,
and as he tried to call the police to assist him, he actually backed out into
traffic to avoid Peter.
After the police came, Patricia and I talked with Peter Ramsey, and two other
Scientologists, Doug Stone, and Brian McPherson. At first, Peter and Brian
made the kind of silly, disparaging remarks toward the protesters that we have
come to know and 'love' from Scientologists.
However, Patricia has communication skills superior to those learned in
Scientology, and was able to get them to stop being foolish and actually
communicate. I related the story of why I had left Scientology and what had
caused me to start protesting against it. Brian felt that I had not acted like
a good Scientologist and that rather than protesting, I should have tried to
'handle' the problems I'd encountered at Flag.
Again, I detected the same lack of knowledge about the reality of Flag and
anything connected with Scientology upper management that Val had displayed. I
thought, "These people don't know that Scientology isn't practiced at Flag.
There isn't any way to "handle" the screw ups, cover ups, incompetence and
chaos that result from a close connection to insane upper management. Telling
these people about the sneaky, unethical, lying conduct of RTC management is
like telling a good German during World War II about the Death Camps. They
would have said, "Well, you must tell Hitler about this. Hitler would never
allow it!""
They didn't understand that the very person they relied upon to correct wrongs
and evil was actually the one responsible for the evil. So it was with Hitler,
so it is with Miscavige, and so it will always be with all petty dictators of
totalitarian organizations.
I recognized, though, that the public Scientologists of Toronto were much more
rational than the robotic "OT Committee" members of Clearwater. The Toronto
"public" were actually able to carry on a discussion, as opposed to Dennis
Clark or Mary DeMoss down in Florida, who could only mouth programmed
misinformation, or spew irrational hate.
Again, it seems that the farther one is away from the source of the evil-the
top of Scientology-the less the evil clouds one's thinking.
One interesting thing I heard about up in Toronto was about "Black NOTS." One
of the other protesters, Mike, told me that it was standard practice for OSA
(the Scientology Secret Police) to do Clay Table Mockups of people they were
trying to destroy, demonstrating in clay how the person they hated would meet
some horrible fate. If true, this is quite interesting because it is a direct
lift from Aleister Crowley's Satanic OTO Cult, and something akin to voodoo. I
became familiar with these practices while researching cults for "The Profit"
movie, and found that the similarities between these various mind control
practices are quite pronounced.
In any event, we left Toronto having somehow survived whatever "Black NOTS"
voodoo was done to us, and actually communicating a small portion of the truth
about Scientology to the Scientologists who came out to "stop" us.
In closing, I hope you'll all support our film, "The Profit," that Scientology
is trying to shut down.
For news about the LA picket, please refer to Patricia Greenway's post "Picket
Report LA."
Peter N. Alexander
Director
The Profit
Mistmagoo55
>From: kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter)
>Date: 3/18/01 1:48 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010318014800...@ng-xa1.aol.com>
>
>
>In closing, I hope you'll all support our film, "The Profit," that
>Scientology
>is trying to shut down.
>
Fear not...we will all be there to support your film and spread the word for
others to go see it! Great seeing both of you yesterday and today, Peter.
HUGS
Tory
Zorrosblade.........Z
matters you address even out-side of the picket report.
Keep this for re-posts in the future. That good.
"Kng Peter" <kngp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010318014800...@ng-xa1.aol.com...
like all public Scientologists.she will. That's something to think about,
M. C. DiPietra
kngp...@aol.com wrote on 3/18/01 1:48 AM:
Hey, Peter,
Can't wait to see "the Profit!" When can we see it in Florida?!
>
> I recognized, though, that the public Scientologists of Toronto were much more
> rational than the robotic "OT Committee" members of Clearwater. The Toronto
> "public" were actually able to carry on a discussion, as opposed to Dennis
> Clark or Mary DeMoss down in Florida, who could only mouth programmed
> misinformation, or spew irrational hate.
Hope you got through to them, even in a small way, so they don't end up like
Mary and Dennis.
>
> Again, it seems that the farther one is away from the source of the evil-the
> top of Scientology-the less the evil clouds one's thinking.
>
> One interesting thing I heard about up in Toronto was about "Black NOTS." One
> of the other protesters, Mike, told me that it was standard practice for OSA
> (the Scientology Secret Police) to do Clay Table Mockups of people they were
> trying to destroy, demonstrating in clay how the person they hated would meet
> some horrible fate. If true, this is quite interesting because it is a direct
> lift from Aleister Crowley's Satanic OTO Cult, and something akin to voodoo.
Say *what?*
I can hook you up with an authority on the Voudon religions that I used to
work with, if you like.
Has anyone here ever heard of or done such a black NOTS clay table mockup of
someone they hated? Could it be anyone they hated or just from an OSA list?
> I
> became familiar with these practices while researching cults for "The Profit"
> movie, and found that the similarities between these various mind control
> practices are quite pronounced.
best,
-m., human being
Tommy
And Peter Ramsey can go play in traffic.
Or just knock on my door...
Tommy
--
From "All about Radiation", by a 'nuclear physicist'....
"One might well ask what I know about this subject. I was a member of
the first class in nuclear physics - we called it Atomic and Molecular
Phenomena, of which nuclear physics is just a small part - which was
taught at the George Washington University."
L. Ron Hubbard
He got an "F".
Joe's Garage
>
> Then, a more mature crew came out to "handle" us, and pass out counter
> picket fliers.
>
> Some of these people were the usual brainwashed robots, but several of
> these Scientologists were actually able to carry on rational
> conversations.
They were probably acting on instructions. "Appear rational."
Joe Cisar: http://cisar.org/rfs0100.htm
Appreciate the finer things in life: http://www.leipzig-award.org
Save a Scientologist - http://mp3.cafepress.com/barbz
On-line book: http://members.tripod.com/German_Scn_News/has00.htm
Lronscam
<20010318014800...@ng-xa1.aol.com>, On or about 18 Mar 2001
06:48:00 GMT,
Kng Peter says...
SNIP
>
>Some of these people were the usual brainwashed robots, but several of these
>Scientologists were actually able to carry on rational conversations. Patricia
>engaged a lady named Val Hill in a long conversation. Val wanted to know why
>we were picketing. Patricia told her about our music composer's scare. Val,
>being a good Scientologist, said that she was sure there was a way to handle
>our complaints if we just went up lines and communicated to management our
>problem.
>
>I thought to myself, "This is what my ex-wife and Greg and Debbie Barnes, and
>all the other loyal Scientologists used to do. They'd just "write up" a
>problem and send it "up lines," certain that Scientology was run by logical,
>upstanding individuals who would right any wrongs."
>
>Of course, these write ups were never acted upon (except to "Sec Check" the
>person doing the write up) because the truth is that the higher up one gets in
>Scientology, the crazier and more evil one becomes, and the less likely one is
>to right any wrongs. Val Hill doesn't currently understand this, but in time,
>like all public Scientologists…she will. That's something to think about,
>isn't it Mr. Miscavige? Think about it: the more you reveal yourself, the
>faster the public will blow and the faster Scientology will shrink.
Did you mention to them that you were an OT? Don't you have some kind of
certificate that tells them you were/are OTVII? I think this would help your
case out, but they could always think of a reason why you are lying.
SNIP
>
>Again, it seems that the farther one is away from the source of the evil-the
>top of Scientology-the less the evil clouds one's thinking.
Conversely, the closer you are to the evil.....
>
>One interesting thing I heard about up in Toronto was about "Black NOTS." One
>of the other protesters, Mike, told me that it was standard practice for OSA
>(the Scientology Secret Police) to do Clay Table Mockups of people they were
>trying to destroy, demonstrating in clay how the person they hated would meet
>some horrible fate. If true, this is quite interesting because it is a direct
>lift from Aleister Crowley's Satanic OTO Cult, and something akin to voodoo. I
>became familiar with these practices while researching cults for "The Profit"
>movie, and found that the similarities between these various mind control
>practices are quite pronounced.
I am really starting to believe this. I think that a lot of what is said on
ARS is too extreme to be believed as fact. This is really hitting home with
me.
In Hubbard's redefining ways he somehow managed to create voodoo a part of
Scn'gy. Heh, the man broke down all past charlatanism by re-creating a new
language to create his own brand of one. Isn't that something like
revolutions that that become what they are fighting against? Maybe most
revolutions are started exactly how Hubbard started his.
--
*___________________________*
Web page summary:
http://www.altreligionscientology.org/
The best overall site: http://www.xenu.net
Chris Owen's well researched site:
http://www.demon.co.uk/castle/audit/index.html.
The name says it all: http://www.ronthewarhero.org
Co$ book list:http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library
Real player files of Co$, pickets, LRH, etc:
http://www.xenutv.com
A A
I was actually expecting you to give a factual report of the picket in
Toronto. Even Raptavio on his visit to Toronto was willing to tell the truth
of the picket even if it contradicted Hagglund's reports.
Gee, what happened to Patricia Greenway's concerns expressed to you about
Hagglund's outrageous activities. You forgot to mention you agreed that
Hagglund was over the top, and that you yourself were dismissive of him and
his antics.
What happened to the other picketer's, Argue's and Barclay's upset with
Hagglund for calling the police and Argue and Hagglund arguing.
I told you I felt Hagglund was a joke.
Didn't Hagglund tell you at another picket how Argue in front of a Police
officer screamed at the girls on the street to give him a "blow job" for
over an hour. (the officer said he could do nothing about it).or that Argue
was seen with paint cans after the sidewalks were painted with graffiti
about Scientology. How about Argue walking by the org with a nine inch Bowie
knife strapped to his leg or how about Argue following a female parishioner
and saying "lick your pussy" until the Police Officer overheard him and was
very upset with Argue (Hagglund and Argue denied it ever happened). Did
Hagglund tell you about Argue being investigated for making over 140 phone
calls to a parishioner (the Police investigated as Argue made one of the
calls from his girlfriends, but said they could do nothing as Argue knew the
law and was making less than 4 phone calls from each phone),
Did Hagglund tell you about another picketer attacking one of the
parishioners (the police officer said do it again and I will charge you),
Hagglund's response was "he just gave him a hug".
Did Hagglund tell you how he has posted pictures of Scientology children to
his website under the term "Rouges Gallery".
Did Hagglund tell you how he is the President of the Enlightened Self
Interest Group for World Harmony and how he sent letters out under this name
yet the organization does not exist.
How about that he was a Stage Hypnotist, or a front man for his wife doing
fortune telling (this is great, she has a brain operation, is on Prozac and
she then gets this ability to read spirits in the sand. He admitted he got
her to do it). She is a teacher and supports him financially and has done so
most of his life.
How many people at the LMT candle light vigil actually believe Hagglund was
a minister or a priest. There he is reading from the bible yet he is
Solarius (you can call me Lari) elrond of the Temple of At lan. He has
stated he believes in the God Yoh and the Priestess At and Priest An and
Yrcha which are evil spirits etc. etc. etc.. (I don't care what he believes
but he has no credentials to pose as a priest or minister so quit the con).
He must have told you he was an officer of the crown and has vast lines into
military and police organization. (He was a border guard for a few summers
while going to university)
Did he tell you how to "manifest wealth without Karmic debt" (sorry this
little scam,MLM, he was doing got nailed for $5 million in fines).
He must have told you he was an actor, (well sort of couple of bit parts in
small plays and some extra work) but not a very good one. He may be perfect
for your movie.
Did he tell you he was famous and got press for taking his Bridge of the
Starship Enterprise around the country.(well not really his, owned, designed
and built by others, he was just the front man getting people to have their
photos taken. This didn't stop him from taking credit for it.) The bridge
did mysteriously have a fire while at Mr. Gameways and the past financial
records were destroyed. Funny, even this didn't stop him bankrupting the
company while treasurer leaving over 170 creditors on the hook for over
$800,000.00. Per him he says he made his first million in retail at this
time. What did he do with the other million?
Did he tell you he is a retired Military Officer. Well it never happened
either.
Did he tell you how he has the local police under his control and how he
started each of last years pickets by hatting the Officer (of usually 25
years plus on the Force) on how to do their job. Really ingratiated himself!
Trust me on this one.
Did he tell you that even Argue, a critic, thinks he is joke.
Did Hagglund tell you of his politically connected family. Yes they are
except for the fact that long before he attacked us his siblings wanted
nothing to do with him. (one only guesses what he did to bring about a state
where one call blocks him and another has threatened to sue him if contacted
by him)
This is only a partial list.
The ludicrous point of most of the above is that he made these statements
not to Scientologists but to the press and other critics on ARS. When
exposed, like a coward, he denies it ever happened or says he did it is a
"Red Herring". A man of true courage.
With Hagglund it is a true case of everything he charges us with he is or
has been involved in.
Peter you now seem to take this guy seriously. Why? He has proven over and
over his credibility is no more than that of a criminal, a liar or a con
man. I know both you and Patricia saw this when you were here in Toronto
because you commented on it to each other and to us.
I per Hagglund am no more than a Scientology Asshole yet I see he was
quick to deny this statement in front of you and Patricia.
Any way Peter this guy is on your side, it is his fraudulent and criminal
activities you are condoning while railing against us. So you have already
made it to "the ends justify the means" concept or some other that
disassociates you comfortably from his activities.
This is only part of the story with Hagglund and you may see why I think
this guy is a joke and why he screams of what we have done to him. All that
has ever been done to Hagglund is to shine the light of truth on him and yes
he hates it and us because it exposes him to what he is. What must Hagglund
truly think of himself and how low his self esteem must be to have to wrap
himself in so many lies.
If you had been following ARS more you would have probably seen most of ARS
also thinks Hagglund is a joke.
He is really no more than comic relief.
Brian
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"A A" <a...@a.com> wrote in message
news:2qat6.75012$p66.21...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> Peter,
>
> I was actually expecting
some anonymous coward from the cult to post its predicted DA
attacks, but hoping maybe this time one of you would have the balls
to back it up with who you really are.
But thanks, "Brian" for showing the world what a cowardly asshole
you are and how the cult manufactures cowardly assholes.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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Dobe R Mann
>Peter,
>
> I was actually expecting you to give a factual report of the picket in
>Toronto. Even Raptavio on his visit to Toronto was willing to tell the truth
>of the picket even if it contradicted Hagglund's reports.
(Chomp .... blech.... DA crap)
> (I don't care what he believes but he has no credentials to pose as a priest or minister so quit the con).
SPRAING!!!!
Oh shit..... *another* Irony Meter shot to hell.
(Chomp)
>
>
>Brian
Dobe R Mann
SP4 Tone 1.95
Read www.xenu.net
See www.xenutv.com
_____________________________________________
INCIDENT 4
LOUD SNAP (Bones breaking)
CHEVROLETS COME OUT
BURN RUBBER
FISHTAIL RIGHT
DO U-TURN
STALL
FLAT TIRE (No motion)
BLOWS HORN
BLOWS MISCAVIGE
CRASH
Android Cat
news:c1bt6.591072$U46.17...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "A A" <a...@a.com> wrote in message
> news:2qat6.75012$p66.21...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > Peter,
> >
> > I was actually expecting
>
> some anonymous coward from the cult to post its predicted DA
> attacks, but hoping maybe this time one of you would have the balls
> to back it up with who you really are.
>
> But thanks, "Brian" for showing the world what a cowardly asshole
> you are and how the cult manufactures cowardly assholes.
It's probably Brian MacPherson. He says that's he's not OSA or anything,
but always works a double shift at pickets (morning and afternoons) --
Dan666, Andy Hill and VelcroGwen don't do that, the members who were
criminally convicted don't do that, *nobody else* does that. My guess is
that he's Asst DSA or somesuch.
He's quite charming in person. He can lie in such a charming fashion.
(S'okay, with a straight face, I can charmingly not laugh my ass off. It's
fun.)
I guess he's just peeved that ARSCC (wdne) Toronto isn't doing pre-announced
pickets this year. Odd, I thought he'd be happy that they didn't have to
hire an off-duty police officer. (*KA-CHING*!) Ah well, we didn't feel like
being clay (table) pigeons anymore.
I don't think his posted DA attack had much charm -- but there's an art to
instilling charm in a text-only medium that takes time to learn. (Is there
a TR-L-320 Charm that advanced students take? They need to update it for
Usenet, and sell it as TR-L-420 Usenet Charm. ;^)
--
Ron of that ilk.
FREE TEST
EXPENSIVE CULT
Kng Peter
Lighten up! You are obsessed with Greg. Remember LRH's advice: whatever you
focus on expands.
Peter
El Roto
snip
Umm, it's traditional to put something worth reading between the
salutation and the signature. Thanks for trying, though.
>
> Brian
Steve G.
ptsc
wrote:
>"A A" <a...@a.com> wrote in message
>news:2qat6.75012$p66.21...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
>> Peter,
>> I was actually expecting
> some anonymous coward from the cult to post its predicted DA
>attacks, but hoping maybe this time one of you would have the balls
>to back it up with who you really are.
> But thanks, "Brian" for showing the world what a cowardly asshole
>you are and how the cult manufactures cowardly assholes.
Brian MacPherson, who at least identified himself this time, so gets to be
a mere asshole.
ptsc
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"ptsc" <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> wrote in message
news:r0oabtksc32qbef7o...@4ax.com...
Alright, I hereby amend my assessment. "Cowardly non anonymous
asshole" since he lies like the cheap rug he probably has in his Org.
If the Org owns one, that is.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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Velcro Kitty
> This last week, while working on our film "The Profit," Patricia Greenway and I
> picketed both the Toronto, Canada and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
>
> As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is the Producer of "The
> Profit," a film about a cult leader, which has been relentlessly attacked by
> the Scientologists.
>
> About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
> lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
> stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
> of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
> and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
Peter,
As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this. Number one, you're
stating that Scientology is guilty of this without any proof whatsoever. You
obviously favour the French legal system whereby one is guilty until proven
innocent.
Or Number two -- which I think is much more likely -- you're lying.
Anytime we're interested in looking at trash, we go and view the LMT website.
Meow
Velcro Kitty
"A 'critic' is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the
work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased -- he hates all
creative people equally."
-- Robert A. Heinlein
[snip]
>
>
>
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
Look, guys, they tried to sic the Polecat Gwen on ya!
Sorry, Gwen. Given el pusho to el shove-o, who would I believe, you,
OSA whore and proven liar extraordinaire, who scratches her catbox
turds all over the newsgroup whenever ordered to do so,and her
criminally convicted cult of trash thieves and liars, or Patricia
and Peter, who thus far haven't been shown to lie about anything at
all, and whose film your cult has been unsuccessfully trying to stop
since its filming?
Hmm, tough choice.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
"Velcro Kitty" <vel...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3AB57BA1...@home.com...
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A A
What ever you focus on expands? Where did you get that?
Brian
"Kng Peter" <kngp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010318194047...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
Gregg
Nice pack of lies. A weak third party attempt though. You forget
picketers talk to each other and will criticize others actions and
activities openly with each other.
You seem to prove my point about you being a "Scientology idiot who
acted like an asshole at the bidding of the OSA."
On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:13:18 GMT, "A A" <a...@a.com> wrote:
>Peter,
>
> I was actually expecting you to give a factual report of the picket in
>Toronto. Even Raptavio on his visit to Toronto was willing to tell the truth
>of the picket even if it contradicted Hagglund's reports.
> Gee, what happened to Patricia Greenway's concerns expressed to you about
>Hagglund's outrageous activities. You forgot to mention you agreed that
>Hagglund was over the top, and that you yourself were dismissive of him and
>his antics.
Heh. Very week Brian. But so are you. Didn't you blow the
criminal cult once and then come crawling back?
> What happened to the other picketer's, Argue's and Barclay's upset with
>Hagglund for calling the police
Figment of your imagination Brian.
>and Argue and Hagglund arguing.
Figment of your imagination Brian.
> I told you I felt Hagglund was a joke.
Yeah. I am such a big joke you and your fellow criminal cult
members of the local OSA Volunteer Goon Squad have been involved in:
slandering me and my friends;
libeling picketers to employers and acquaintances;
libeling me with easily disproven falsehoods concerning my business
and financial history;
slandered me with false accusations of child abuse;
libeled me by calling me a pervert;
committed a hate crime against me by denigrating my lawful sexual
preferences;
stalking picketers;
threatening my siblings;
terrorizing my parents;
repeatedly picketing my home and
viciously slandering of me to my neighbors;
libeling my wife to her peers and employers and
threatening to disrupt her place of work: a Junior School;
stalking my wife and posting clandestine photos of her in a vain
attempt to embarrass her;
via email and snail mail: engaging in attempts at intimidation of
those Co$ suspects may support my activism;
multiple thefts of property;
attempted burglary;
assaults upon myself, Gerry Armstrong, Alan Barclay;
Intellectual Property Theft and
TradeMark Infringement, to say the least.
If I am a joke, Brian, then why do the Criminals of
Scientology (Co$) spend so much effort on attacking me?
> Didn't Hagglund tell you at another picket how Argue in front of a Police
>officer screamed at the girls on the street to give him a "blow job" for
>over an hour.
Liar. Provide the video tape.
>(the officer said he could do nothing about it).
(Because there was nothing to do about.]
>or that Argue
>was seen with paint cans after the sidewalks were painted with graffiti
>about Scientology. How about Argue walking by the org with a nine inch Bowie
>knife strapped to his leg
yahdah more lies Brian. Very weak. Do you have Police incident reports
to post? Andy Hill tried this kind of lie once before and I caught him
at it and quoted the actual incident report. Made Andy look like a
pretty stupid liar. Or were you writing Andy's stuff back then too?
>or how about Argue following a female parishioner
>and saying "lick your pussy" until the Police Officer overheard him and was
>very upset with Argue (Hagglund and Argue denied it ever happened).
Another lie Brian.
This was reported upon before.
The Officer was more upset that he was *lied* to by your OSA
Goonie. He was frustrated your groups efforts as acts of public
mischief were making him look like an idiot on video and audio tape.
> Did Hagglund tell you about Argue being investigated for making over 140 phone
>calls to a parishioner (the Police investigated as Argue made one of the
>calls from his girlfriends, but said they could do nothing as Argue knew the
>law and was making less than 4 phone calls from each phone),
Another lie Brian.
What part of the above did you change from reality?
Care to admit it?
How about the name of the investigating officer?
> Did Hagglund tell you about another picketer attacking one of the
>parishioners (the police officer said do it again and I will charge you),
>Hagglund's response was "he just gave him a hug".
Your video shows that is exactly what happened. Post the video
Brian. I have asked before for this and OSA hasn't done it.
Technically incapable or is the video exactly as I have described the
incident? In any event the picketer involved, Dave Palter, has retired
from picketing activity. He is still too emotionally affected by the
brutalizing of his spirit and psyche at the hand of Hubbard Fascist
Dram Scheme.
> Did Hagglund tell you how he has posted pictures of Scientology children to
>his website under the term "Rouges Gallery".
No. That was "Rogues Gallery". The three or four photos show
several unfortunate children being used by the Co$ to try and better
Co$ sagging PR in Toronto. In withering heat too. The page also was
devoted to decrying the plight of children and families sundered by
the cruel Co$ policy of "Disconnection".
>Did Hagglund tell you how he is the President of the Enlightened Self
>Interest Group for World Harmony and how he sent letters out under this name
>yet the organization does not exist.
Of course it existed. It was a registered business. Are you
really this stupid? Or just desperate?
> How about that he was a Stage Hypnotist,
Yes. But I was convinced by professionals not to abuse my
talent.
>or a front man for his wife doing
>fortune telling
My wife is a Spiritualist. There is a bonafide Religion in
Canada that shares many of the same beliefs as my wife and many
others. In fact Brian, there are many many more who have faith in
Spiritualism than there are Scientologists. And *you* know it, don't
you. Sour grapes Brian. Sour grapes.
>(this is great, she has a brain operation, is on Prozac
This is true. You know it. Yet you and your fellow OSA Goon
Squad members have gone to great lengths to try and apply
extraordinary emotional stress to my wife in a vicious and cruel
attempt to cause her to emotionally break down. And you claim you are
protecting a *Faith*.! You are only protecting the fraudulent
scientific claims of Scientology.
>and
>she then gets this ability to read spirits in the sand. He admitted he got
>her to do it).
More distortions Brian.
> She is a teacher and supports him financially and has done so
>most of his life.
Ha. Right. Jen has been a teacher, but not always. My CPP
pension status at this time is about 70% as high as hers. Surprised?
Of course you are. You have no idea of all the employers I have had or
business i have run, nor even what I do right now. You OSA thugs need
to hire a PI to stalk me more often. Don't send Ramsay to stalk me
anymore. After his last attempt to harass and intimidate me, Ramsay is
likely to get himself arrested or locked up in a Psychiatric Wing for
72 hours of observation.
>How many people at the LMT candle light vigil actually believe Hagglund was
>a minister or a priest.
Tsk Tsk Brian. Bryenton has acknowledged my Faith is my right
to have and Ramsay has admitted in writing he is trying to destroy it.
I am a Priest of my Faith and you can not rationally claim otherwise.
>There he is reading from the bible
Reading from the Baptist College Bible given to me by my uncle
George, a Baptist Minister, now retired. Reading passages at the
request of the family of Lisa McPherson who was a human sacrifice to
the pseudoscience of Hubbard. Read at a public Interdenominational
Memorial Service. Your envy will make you ill Brian.
>yet he is
>Solarius (you can call me Lari) elrond of the Temple of At lan.
Nice of you as an OSA Volunteer and member of the Co$ to again
admit Who I AM. Solarius El Rond, High Priest of the Temple of At'L'An
in this modern era. A new Faith which OSA THUG Peter Ramsay, at the
direction of his Co$ masters, seeks to ruin. Thanks once again for
your acknowledgement Ramsay is no more than a common thief for
wilfully and maliciously infringing on our Formalized Trademark:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/1051/trdp105117800e.html
> He has
>stated he believes in the God Yoh and the Priestess At and Priest An and
>Yrcha which are evil spirits etc. etc. etc.. (I don't care what he believes
>but he has no credentials to pose as a priest or minister so quit the con).
Con?
You call real belief, which you yourself acknowledge as mine,
a con? Ha! You are the con artist Brian. Have you ever told an Co$
recruit these Judicially Noted Facts:
Scientology Management does not always tell truth;
Scientology Management has condoned and often conducted illegal,
unethical and immoral activities;
Some Scientology Practices are dangerous to participants health,
either physical or mental or both;
Scientology Management and L.R. Hubbard lied about Hubbards life,
history and accomplishments;
Despite the pseudo-scientific claims of Hubbard no Scientology or
Dianetic process has *ever* been clinically *proven* to work as
claimed.
I have been circulating the above, in one form or another for
four years.
Were the above not true, then they would be defamations of
Corporate Scientology and we both know Co$ has the money and the
lawyers to force me to retract or cease to utter or print them.
But the above *are* true Brian.
And the first four are enforced by *current* Co$ policies.
So, I ask you, Brian, are you a con artist for not openly
revealing the above facts to new recruits? Have you warned them about
the Xenu Sci-Fi of OT3. About the Marcabs Flying Saucers? All part of
Hubbards Con game that *you* are part of!
I have the credentials of my Faith Brian. And you do not
become a Priest in my Faith with a cheque book and two weeks of a "go
through the motions" sham qualification. {Something the Co$ forgot to
tell Consumer and Corporate Affairs eh?}
Oh, and Brian, you'll be able to find out all about the
qualifications of Ordination in my Faith once we go public and get
Charity Status in Canada. Not one minute before.
>He must have told you he was an officer of the crown and has vast lines into
>military and police organization. (He was a border guard for a few summers
>while going to university)
Yep. A full Officer of the Crown, for Revenue Canada at the
time. For those who don't know, Canada Customs Officers are the
primary Agents of our country guarding our borders.
> Did he tell you how to "manifest wealth without Karmic debt" (sorry this
>little scam,MLM, he was doing got nailed for $5 million in fines).
Yeah. They did. I only spent a few grand on it. Just goes to
show you even a consumer advocate can be fooled by a con game too.
> He must have told you he was an actor, (well sort of couple of bit parts in
>small plays and some extra work) but not a very good one.
Ha! Now Brian, don't hold back. You forgot I have a BFA in
Drama from the University of Windsor. A course one has to audition for
and have the *talent* to both enter and maintain ones academic
achievements and personal growth. Thousands audition each year, a
handful are accepted and four years later a few remain to graduate.
> He may be perfect
>for your movie.
I was otherwise engaged.
> Did he tell you he was famous and got press for taking his Bridge of the
>Starship Enterprise around the country.
More that just Canada Brian.
>(well not really his, owned, designed
>and built by others, he was just the front man getting people to have their
>photos taken.
Co-owned by me, as is the current one we have in stock. The
portable infrastructure was my design. The visual design was copyright
to Paramount. Sales of photos were of course prohibited by Paramount.
However, Paramount did consider the quality of the work done by me and
my team so good that Paramount sold photo ops on the Bridge one year
at the Canadian National Exhibition. ( The Bridge was then owned by a
local ST fan club.]
>This didn't stop him from taking credit for it.)
You certainly haven't stopped lying about it.
> The bridge
>did mysteriously have a fire while at Mr. Gameways
Liar, liar Brian. The bridge was damaged in a fire which
occurred in the Games Cub at Mr. Gameways Ark.
> and the past financial
>records were destroyed.
*Yawn*
We've been down this road, to the great embarrassment of the
OSA Goon Squad before. You know the principal original financial
records survived. They were examined by the Trustees.
>Funny, even this didn't stop him bankrupting the
>company while treasurer leaving over 170 creditors on the hook for over
>$800,000.00.
More tired lies Brian. I was part of a Board. I recommended
we file. We were one of thousands of corporate casualties of those
economically troubled times.
> Per him he says he made his first million in retail at this
>time.
Yep. My net worth of assets at one time were valued at over
one million dollars. However assets can be devalued. Did you know that
Bill Gates net worth of over one billion was nearly cut in half to 600
million by the failure of the techno stocks?
>What did he do with the other million?
What did Bill Gates do with that 400 million?!
>Did he tell you he is a retired Military Officer. Well it never happened
>either.
Glad you finally realized that Brian.
Of course it was the Sirian Liberation Army; Dirac Angestun
Gesept, which posted a Trollish bit of fun that mentioned that. And
since i am such a joke, OSA had Ramsay write to the current Officer in
Command of the Royal Regiment. By the time Ramsay had received a reply
to his libelous letter to the OIC, I had already posted my listed rank
and serial number from 1967. But of course, you forgot all that, yes?
> Did he tell you how he has the local police under his control
Now, now, Brian. It only seems that way. Just because the Org
was *forced* to hire an off duty officer to protect *us* from the Goon
Squads aggressive and harassing antics, including minor assaults,
thefts of property and trespass of property, doesn't mean I control
the Police. It means the Police *have* to control over zealous members
of the Criminal Cult you slavishly stooge for.
>and how he
>started each of last years pickets by hatting the Officer (of usually 25
>years plus on the Force) on how to do their job. Really ingratiated himself!
>Trust me on this one.
Right. Would you lie? ROTFLMAO!
You'd just kill to find out what was in those introductory
letters that we were *requested* to relay.
>Did he tell you that even Argue, a critic, thinks he is joke.
Mike likes my sense of humor. I try to keep his humor above
your level Brian.
>Did Hagglund tell you of his politically connected family.
My father had an illustrious career in the civil service. So
my brother does currently.
>Yes they are
>except for the fact that long before he attacked us his siblings wanted
>nothing to do with him. (one only guesses what he did to bring about a state
>where one call blocks him and another has threatened to sue him if contacted
>by him)
Another lie Brian. My brother was sent a threatening letter by
Ramsay, in which I was libeled at great length. The threats involved
vacant and powerless claims by Ramsay to damage my brothers
reputation, disrupt his neighborhood and defame him to his
congregation at a *real* Church. This of course caused some
consternation and family discussion. Time was needed to bring all the
neighbors, employers and congregation up to speed, if necessary, upon
the machinations and absolutely vicious and evil conduct of
Scientology and its OSA. A lawyer was employed by my brother to fend
off Ramsay and his OSA threats. The correspondence is a matter of
record now. My mother, now widowed, is our family Matriarch and keeps
us all in line.
As for my sister threatening to sue me, well, you now know
that is as silly an idea now as it was then, despite you buying into
it then. Sue me? For what? For OSA Ramsay threatening her? Who do you
think is *known* to the Police now because of numerous complaints of
minor criminal and definitely questionably activities? OSA agent
Ramsay of the historically criminal Co$, of course!
>This is only a partial list.
Whaat? You aren't going to make up some more bullshit?
What about my mortgages? You OSA Goonies went to great lengths
to lie through your keyboards, despite having the actual documents in
front of you, making false claims of clandestine financial
skulduggery. Still wiping the egg off of your face after I posted the
Real mortgage history eh?. Maybe the Purif can get that smell of
sulphur out of your nose.
>
>The ludicrous point of most of the above is that he made these statements
>not to Scientologists but to the press and other critics on ARS. When
>exposed, like a coward, he denies it ever happened or says he did it is a
>"Red Herring". A man of true courage.
More sour grapes! How much money and time did the OSA waste
looking for people I supposedly "Exit Counseled"? Wanted to find
someone to convince to sue me, right? And of course any post signed by
a SciFi resistance group has to contain valid information, doesn't it?
> With Hagglund it is a true case of everything he charges us with he is or
>has been involved in.
You belong to a Criminally Convicted Corporation. You support
the Criminal Cult in its continuing illegal and immoral actions of
intimidation, assault, theft, extortion, blackmail, manslaughter and
other familiar forms of minor and major mayhem and harassment.
>
> Peter you now seem to take this guy seriously. Why? He has proven over and
>over his credibility is no more than that of a criminal, a liar or a con
>man.
Brian. You are the criminal supporter, liar and con man. Not
I. Peter Alexander knows this. He is much more familiar with how much
a scumbag you are as an OSA Volunteer.
> I know both you and Patricia saw this when you were here in Toronto
>because you commented on it to each other and to us.
Right. Weak Third Party attempt. Really lame Brian.
> I per Hagglund am no more than a Scientology Asshole yet I see he was
>quick to deny this statement in front of you and Patricia.
As I stated before, Brian, I think you are a "Scientology
idiot who acted like an asshole at the bidding of the OSA."
I don't think being a Scientologist makes you an asshole. You
have to earn it by your personal proclivities. Now Mario, poor guy, is
not an asshole. I have even tried to get Mike to stop teasing Mario.
But you Brian, are an asshole. Twice over. You left the Co$ and came
back. Now that is not understandable unless you were an asshole before
you left and were still and asshole when you crawled back into the
Hubbard Womb of No Think. Actually you are an asshole thrice over
since you are shacked up with Gwennie and she is such a overt viper
and apparent criminal.
You are an asshole who happens to be a Scientologist. The two
are conditions are not mutually inclusive or exclusive. Get it?
> Any way Peter this guy is on your side, it is his fraudulent and criminal
>activities you are condoning while railing against us. So you have already
>made it to "the ends justify the means" concept or some other that
>disassociates you comfortably from his activities.
Yahdah. More libel.
Say Brian, did you know one of the top lawyers in Canada has
told me that libel from Scientologists is not credibly prosecutable
because no rational member of the public would believe the raves and
rants of a known Scientologist member or agent?
> This is only part of the story with Hagglund and you may see why I think
>this guy is a joke and why he screams of what we have done to him.
I don't scream Brian. You wish I did. You wish you could hurt
me. Now, I *am* afraid of you and your Goon Squad thugs, especially
> All that
>has ever been done to Hagglund is to shine the light of truth on him and yes
>he hates it and us because it exposes him to what he is.
Nice reversal of the established *facts* Brian:
All that I have ever done about Scientology is to shine the
light of truth on the Co$. Yes the Co$ hates it .It is willing to use
its nefarious OSA to "lie,cheat, trick and destroy me" as per the Fair
Game Policy. This is because I continue to expose Co$ to the Toronto
public as the convicted criminal corporation operated fraud and
vicious con game that it is.
> What must Hagglund
>truly think of himself and how low his self esteem must be to have to wrap
>himself in so many lies.
Your overts are showing Brian.
> If you had been following ARS more you would have probably seen most of ARS
>also thinks Hagglund is a joke.
>He is really no more than comic relief.
>
You are the joke Brian.
And I have had a good laugh today at your expense.
>
>Brian
Please note this has been your OSA flunky ack for 2001 and now
its time to put you back into the box: *plonk*.
"Evil Incompetent Financial Genius and Spiritualist"
Gregg Hagglund SP7
Free Toronto
Toronto and Canadian National Picket Reports now at:
<http://xenu.ca/index.html>
"It's interesting that Scientologists cannot seem to differentiate
between:
----individuals:
picketing an organization to voice their opinion on its behavior,
and
-----an organization:
picketing individuals for voicing their opinion."
-M.C.DiPietra
"Give'em hell son." the late M.G.Hagglund
****************************************************
"It's doubtful anyone would heed
a failed businessman with his own "religion"
and other failed sci-fi interests."
-D.Bryenton, 25 year Toronto Org Member & OSA Stooge
****************************************************
Kng Peter
Okay, so it's "Whatever you resist you become the effect of," or some other
sort of Hubbard Crap. Anyway, it's interesting how Greg has you guys on the
run. Aren't you suppposed to be the OT's?
And I'm sorry I called you rational. I recognize rational = reasonable in
Scientologese, which is a cardinal sin, and my accusation that you might be
rational has probably gotten you in trouble with the group. I take it back.
You aren't rational. There, is it all better now?
Peter Alexander
barb
Yeah, well, for a joker he sure got your knickers in a knot, didn't he?
He's playing you like a fish, and you can just gulp, bug your eyes, and
take it.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm (this site is down right now.)
http://www.geocities.com/bwarr_2000/ mirror site
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
barb
Let's hope he doesn't wind up like another McPherson...the most famous
Scientologist in the world.
barb
>
> Peter,
>
> What ever you focus on expands? Where did you get that?
>
> Brian
Pay more money, and maybe you'll find out someday...
>
> "Kng Peter" <kngp...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010318194047...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
> > Brian,
> >
> > Lighten up! You are obsessed with Greg. Remember LRH's advice: whatever
> you
> > focus on expands.
> >
> > Peter
A A
I didn't know rational was on the table. I don't remember questioning
your rationality. The only rational conversations I have ever had at a
picket are probably with you, Patricia, Ron Sharpe and Raptavio. Whether we
agree is a different question.
I am dealing with an individual who has posted "Scientologists should be
dealt with as wolves once were"
who is in league with and instructs a guy who posted that "a Columbine
should be done on the org" who has manufactured and promoted false data and
has lied or had others lie to Police agencies, government agencies, his
fellow critics on the street and ARS. I think any rational individual has to
question his sanity and his motives.
One of the most succinct statements I have ever seen that describes this guy
is
The following is an excerpt from an article by Swain and Eric Wodening
"Bigotry of any kind seems to stem from the same source. Sociologists early
in the 20th century developed the theory of the authoritarian personality.
An authoritarian personality has strong feelings of inadequacy, dependency,
and hostility, particularly toward those in authority, even though they may
be in a position of authority. Because of these feelings of worthlessness,
they tend to displace this anger and hate towards themselves onto another
group. The bigot is simply transferring their own sense of low self esteem
and their own self hatred to another racial, cultural, or religious group.
The bigot will stereotype, lie, about and persecute that group no matter
what the truth. They will even go so far as to accuse the persecuted of
being the persecutor or fabricate instances of persecution."
This isn't a sales pitch Peter. Don't believe me. Just watch him and make up
your own mind.
Brian
"Kng Peter" <kngp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010319023401...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
Mike O'Connor
"A A" <a...@a.com> wrote:
> I was actually expecting you to
[...]
All that text attacking those you hate. And nothing about Scientology.
You hate those people. And you are terrified to talk about Scientology.
Is this what you thought Scientology would turn you into?
--
SCIENTOLOGY IS SECRETLY A UFO CULT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Dave Bird
>Kng Peter wrote:
>>
>> This last week, while working on our film "The Profit,"
>> Patricia Greenway and I picketed both the Toronto, Canada
>> and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
>> As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is
>> the Producer of "The Profit," a film about a cult leader,
>> which has been relentlessly attacked by the Scientologists.
>> About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
>> lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
>> stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
>> of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
>> and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
>
>Peter,
>
>As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this. Number one,
>you're
>stating that Scientology is guilty of this without any proof whatsoever. You
>obviously favour the French legal system whereby one is guilty until proven
>innocent.
>
>Or Number two -- which I think is much more likely -- you're lying.
Really? but your idiot Ramsay has been caught on video stealing
trash, trying doors to break in, and shitting his trousers when
challenged over these activities. No doubt someone will add the URL.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |<a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"></a>_____________|/_______| L
www.xemu.demon.co.uk 2B0D 5195 337B A3E6 DDAC BD38 7F2F FD8E 7391 F44F
Christopher Wood - xenu.ca
(No doubt someone will.)
Oh, and this one too:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:53:29 +0000, Dave Bird <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
>In<3AB57BA1...@home.com>, Velcro Kitty <vel...@home.com> writes:
>>Kng Peter wrote:
>>>
>>> This last week, while working on our film "The Profit,"
>>> Patricia Greenway and I picketed both the Toronto, Canada
>>> and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
>>> As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is
>>> the Producer of "The Profit," a film about a cult leader,
>>> which has been relentlessly attacked by the Scientologists.
>>> About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
>>> lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
>>> stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
>>> of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
>>> and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
>>
>>Peter,
>>
>>As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this. Number one,
>>you're
>>stating that Scientology is guilty of this without any proof whatsoever. You
>>obviously favour the French legal system whereby one is guilty until proven
>>innocent.
>>
>>Or Number two -- which I think is much more likely -- you're lying.
>
> Really? but your idiot Ramsay has been caught on video stealing
> trash, trying doors to break in, and shitting his trousers when
> challenged over these activities. No doubt someone will add the URL.
(No doubt someone will.)
> |~/ |~/
>~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
>P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
>O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
>O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
>L |<a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"></a>_____________|/_______| L
>www.xemu.demon.co.uk 2B0D 5195 337B A3E6 DDAC BD38 7F2F FD8E 7391 F44F
-------------------------------------------
-- Scientology's gate is down. --
Canadian Scientology information is now at:
http://xenu.ca/
-------------------------------------------
HollywdSpy
I can't comment on things that Gregg may have said in the past--I really don't
know what they were, and in what context they were said. I guess it would be up
to Gregg himself to respond to your comments, if he chooses to do so.
My only direct observation of Gregg during a picket is that he has a very loud
voice, he says what he thinks, and you guys seem to be spooked by him.
But beyond that, think about this: what if everything you said about Gregg is
God's truth? Does that diminish the truth that Gregg speaks about Scientology?
The fact that L. Ron Hubbard was not a scientist as he claimed, but was a
convicted fraud who flunked out of college isn't going to go away.
The fact that there never were, nor ever will be, any Clears or OT's produced
in Scientology despite the millions of dollars suckers like me pumped into it
isn't going to go away.
The fact that the kids in the Sea Org, kids I knew--like Miles and Hunter
Borland--grew up with only a few hours per week--if that--of contact with their
parents is never going to go away. I understand that Miles Borland, one of the
coolest fifteen year old kids on the planet, was put on the RPF for eighteen
months. His crime? Supposedly, he was kissing his fiance. "Out 2-D!!!"
With this level of insanity continuing on a daily basis, I'm afraid that my
focus doesn't really go to Gregg Hagglund or any other critic--it goes to the
organization I once placed my faith in, and once thought was of benefit to
mankind--Scientology.
As I said to you during the picket, the protesters are an eclectic group, with
no real organization, and each has their own opinions and their own way of
expressing those opinions. Each of those protesters will have to take
responsibility for their own actions. But they are not a group which claims to
have a technology capable of freeing the planet. That's the cruelest hoax of
all: to proclaim one's own perfection, while actually not even measuring up to
common standards of decency.
Think about it,
Peter N. Alexander
Mike O'Connor
Velcro Kitty <vel...@home.com> wrote:
> As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this.
> Number one, you're stating that Scientology is guilty of this without
> any proof whatsoever. You obviously favour the French legal system
> whereby one is guilty until proven innocent.
>
> Or Number two -- which I think is much more likely -- you're lying.
OK. Yours are the only two possibilities. He is mistaken or he is lying.
It couldn't possibly be anything else.
Gregg
>>Peter,
>>
>> I didn't know rational was on the table. I don't remember questioning
>>your rationality. The only rational conversations I have ever had at a
>>picket are probably with you, Patricia, Ron Sharpe and Raptavio. Whether we
>>agree is a different question.
>> I am dealing with an individual who has posted "Scientologists should be
>>dealt with as wolves once were"
What a transparent and deliberate lie Brian. And you with
copies of all my Usenet posts at your disposal. Here is the actual
quotes from , IIRC, a thread concerning murders, and kidnappers and
consequences:
Gregg:
"IMHO those of the Cos who seek to implement their aims and impose
their doctrine have declared war on humanity and "should be dealt with
as wolves are". (Politically and conservationally incorrect but
conveys the feeling.)"
Big Beard :
"Wolves have been bad rapped enough. Yeah, I see the disclaimer but
that really should have been "should be dealt with as wolves used to
be." Besides, if you give them half a chance a wolf is friendlier and
a LOT more honest than Cof$ will ever be."
Gregg:
"Quite right Big Beard. I sit corrected. Wolves are a lot friendlier.
They also don't pretend to be anything else except a wolf. Therefore I
withdraw the above and rephrase:" IMHO those of the Cos who seek to
implement their aims and impose their doctrine have declared war on
humanity and "should be dealt with as wolves used to be."
I, like many Christians believe in an eye for an eye Brian.
Now, you wouldn't be involved in any wolf like *outlaw* criminal
activities would you? No? Then only those of the Co$ who are involved
in criminal activities need worry about the legal consequences of
being treated as outlaws by society.
>>who is in league with and instructs a guy who posted that "a Columbine
>>should be done on the org"
Your proof of this allegation I am In league and give
instructions" is what?
Nothing?
So OSA just made it up, right?
Another fabrication by a morally bankrupt and ethically
challenged criminally convicted cult, eh?
This is from the DA sheet on me you OSA Goons pass about to
each other in an effort to demonize me in your own minds. I guess once
you are *really* convinced I am sub human then you'll go the next step
into violent acts against me Brian. Like your OSA Thug pat Ramsay, who
has stalked me and my family by various means and harassed us as well
as going so far as to assault me as he did in April of 2000.
>>who has manufactured and promoted false data
Specifically what data have I manufactured and promoted?
>>and
>>has lied or had others lie to Police agencies, government agencies, his
>>fellow critics on the street and ARS.
Specifically what lies?
Specifically what others?
Specifically what Police Agencies and government Agencies?
Specifically what lies have I told to "fellow critics on the
street and ARS"?
OSA is a well documented as being involved in intimidation
tactics and "noisy investigations" meant to "destroy them [opponents]
utterly". You are just whining because I used deceptive tactics of
disinformation to steer OSA initial investigations of me into an
costly dead end. Too bad for the OSA Thugs and Uncle Al Buttnor.
If OSA was not involved in immoral, unethical and illegal acts, like
Breach of the Public Trust, then that disinformation would not have
mattered in the least. I set up a sting and OSA fell for it. Sour
Grapes Brian. The victim ducked when OSA tried to hit from behind.
>>I think any rational individual has to
>>question his sanity and his motives.
My sanity is not questionable, but I think yours is. You,
Brian, are willing to lie and defend liars, thugs and thieves in order
to 'Clear the Planet" . Any means to achieve the end product of a
prepared Humanity. Prepared in order to save Earth from a future
Space Invasion that a pill popping second rate Sci Fi author claimed
he had proven scientifically was soon to transpire.
>>One of the most succinct statements I have ever seen that describes this guy
>>is
Despite OSA directed intimidation; despite the emotional brutalizing
of me and my family, despite the attempts by OSA to impede my personal
religious initiative, in order to extort and exact my silence:
"I am a Canadian, a free Canadian,
free to speak without fear,
free to worship God in my own way,
free to stand for what I think right,
free to oppose what I believe wrong,
free to choose those who shall govern my country.
This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all
mankind."
Prime Minister
John Diefenbaker, House of Commons Debates, July 1, 1960
>
>>This isn't a sales pitch Peter.
No. Its a pack of lies, distortions and innuendoes.
>> Don't believe me.
No one does. You are a transparent liar.
>> Just watch him and make up
>your own mind.
>
>Brian
Too bad you can't make a final break from the Co$ Brian.
Then you'd be free, just as Tory is.
I'll pray for that.
Best,
Rev Fredric L. Rice
>Peter,
> I didn't know rational was on the table.
Work it up in clay, anonymous moron.
---
Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and
terrorism by the Scientology cult to the Domestic Terrorism
Task Force at nor...@fbi.gov http://www.skeptictank.org/
For psychological assistance check: http://www.shrinktank.com/
Rev Fredric L. Rice
>Peter,
> I was actually expecting you to give a factual report of the picket in
>Toronto. Even Raptavio on his visit to Toronto was willing to tell the truth
>of the picket even if it contradicted Hagglund's reports.
Spoken by an anonymous coward who's too scared to use his own name to post
his insane lies. Golly, that's a first for the Scientology crime syndicate.
Rev Fredric L. Rice
>Kng Peter wrote:
>> This last week, while working on our film "The Profit," Patricia Greenway and I
>> picketed both the Toronto, Canada and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
>>
>> As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is the Producer of "The
>> Profit," a film about a cult leader, which has been relentlessly attacked by
>> the Scientologists.
>>
>> About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
>> lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
>> stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
>> of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
>> and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
>Peter,
> As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this. Number
> one, you're stating that Scientology is guilty of this without any
> proof whatsoever.
Not only have your crime bosses been caught stealing people's trash from
around the United States over the past six years, the license plate of your
crime boss was written down by a citizen. Aside from the relevant facts of
the criminals being caught in the act stealing people's trash in the early
morning hours like some dope-dealing crack head, we find that only Scientology
crime bosses have any motive for stealing people's trash.
Time to wake the frock up and smell the fraud, you insane nut.
Gregg
Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
>"A A" <a...@a.com> wrote:
>
>>Peter,
>
>> I was actually expecting you to give a factual report of the picket in
>>Toronto. Even Raptavio on his visit to Toronto was willing to tell the truth
>>of the picket even if it contradicted Hagglund's reports.
Hmmm. Interesting premise. Raptavio told the truth about a
picket that I didn't attend, yet I contradicted him in a picket report
I didn't post.
Or do you mean, Brian, the Goon Squad was being civil at the
picket Raptavio attended, because I wasn't there? No matter. I can
arrange for Raptavio to see the hours of video I have of the OSA Goon
Squad spewing verbal vitriol . These specious and outrageous
falsehoods were so vicious that one passersby was moved to comment on
putrid Paulette's claims about me " I don't believe you".
>
>Spoken by an anonymous coward who's too scared to use his own name to post
>his insane lies. Golly, that's a first for the Scientology crime syndicate.
>
Its just Brian MacPherson of the local volunteer OSA Goon
Squad.
>---
>Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and
>terrorism by the Scientology cult to the Domestic Terrorism
>Task Force at nor...@fbi.gov http://www.skeptictank.org/
>For psychological assistance check: http://www.shrinktank.com/
Kng Peter
My only direct observations of Gregg during the picket was that he has a loud
voice, uses it to say what he thinks, and is careful to abide by the law. As
for the rest of what you have to say about him, I can't really respond--because
I have no first hand knowledge. I guess it's up to Gregg to respond if he so
chooses.
However, criticising Gregg does not excuse Scientology for it's behavior. The
idea that one can right the wrongs one has done by discrediting the people who
point them out is a peculiar form of logic known only to L. Ron Hubbard. It
doesn't work. Because each and every day, some event occurs in Scientology
which is so strange, so insane that NO ETHICAL PERSON CAN STAND BY WITHOUT
POINTING OUT THE MADNESS.
For example, the other evening, I had dinner with a young lady and her family.
She had been a cadet in the Sea Org. She told me about another cadet I knew
named Miles Borland. Miles was the son of my former auditor Hank, and my
ex-wife and I used to invite him over to stay at our house in Clearwater every
weekend.
There was no more upstat kid than Miles.
At thirteen, he started training to be a Class VIII Auditor. My own kids
constantly marveled at how bright and mature Miles was, and how he had a both a
great work ethic and a great personality.
I understand that as of this time last year, Miles had been on the RPF for
eighteen months.
His crime, apparently, was to show his fiance (I guess he got engaged at
fifteen) a little too much affection--nothing heavy--just a little too much
affection by some lunatic standard.
And for this he was put on the RPF for eighteen months. Now Brian, if you knew
this kid, you would be outraged by this stupidity. First, the idiocy of trying
to control people's sex lives, which the Sea Org does on a daily basis, and
second the particular application of this policy to a stellar upstat.
Completely insane.
Now Miles Borland is just one story, one of many, many stories...but each story
is so wacko, so strange that it boggles the mind. Given the thousands and
thousands of these stories, from Miles to the PI going through our music
composer's trash, is it any wonder why Gregg Hagglund and others are upset with
Scientology?
In fact, when I tell people a few of these stories--insanity, greed,
criminality--they look at me dully and say, "Well, if all that is true, why
doesn't someone do something about it?" The answer is: because Scientology is
a tiny, steadily decreasing group, and nobody really gives a damn...except the
occasional free speech advocate like Gregg, or a few ex-members like me who
happen to have some guts.
It's true, we critics are not perfect--in fact some of us are--as I said to you
the day of the picket--"rather colorful personalities."
But, unlike Scientology, we don't claim to have the technology to free mankind,
to bring him up to a super human state, to 'clear' the planet. Any group that
makes those claims must stand above the rest of society as an example.
I'm afraid Scientology doesn't measure up to even the lowest groups in society.
I've known gangs of thugs (from when I was a kid) who I trusted more, and who
had more personal integrity, than the people who run Scientology today. And
I'm afraid that L. Ron himself wasn't much better.
So rather than just follow Hubbard-think and try to discredit your critics, if
you care about Scientology, you need to get to work and clean it up.
Sincerely,
Peter N. Alexander
John Dorsay
Velcro Kitty wrote:
>
> Kng Peter wrote:
>
> > This last week, while working on our film "The Profit," Patricia Greenway and I
> > picketed both the Toronto, Canada and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
> >
> > As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is the Producer of "The
> > Profit," a film about a cult leader, which has been relentlessly attacked by
> > the Scientologists.
> >
> > About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
> > lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
> > stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
> > of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
> > and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
>
> Peter,
>
> As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this. Number one, you're
> stating that Scientology is guilty of this without any proof whatsoever. You
> obviously favour the French legal system whereby one is guilty until proven
> innocent.
>
> Or Number two -- which I think is much more likely -- you're lying.
I don't suppose you have any evidence to support the suggestion that he
is lying, do you?
I am *still* waiting for you to produce evidence to support your
accusation that I was lying. It's well over a year since you made the
claim. What's taking you so long? Are you having a spot of trouble
spotting my lies?
--
Regards, John
Exceedingly Rude and Discourteous Psychiatric Pawn
Read about Scientology and the abuse of survivors of brain injury:
clamsay
"Rev Fredric L. Rice" <fr...@SPAMNOTlinkline.com> wrote in message
news:tbgcrdp...@corp.supernews.com...
Oh, we *can* smell you, Freddie.
All the way up here in Canada!
Now exactly *what* was the licence plate number of this
alleged trash thief?
And exactly *who* was this plate registered to?
I'll bet you don't answer! <grin>
As Velcro said, if we were at all interested in looking at
somebody's trash, we'd go take a peek at the LMT's web site.
Or yours! <grin>
The Skeptic Tank:
Home Of The Giant, Invisible, Forty-Eight Foot Clearwater
Police Department Report!
Over 11,000 Spirit Visitations Daily!
Peter Ramsay
President
Temple of At'L'An
Public Education On Hate Groups And Their Members
> ---
> Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and
> terrorism by Fredric "Long-Suffering" Rice to the Domestic Terrorism
> Task Force at nor...@fbi.gov http://www.bigotwatch.net/
> For spiritual assistance check: http://www.scientology.org/
Christopher Wood - xenu.ca
wrote:
The snipped message was written by Peter Ramsay, who has also done
other things to Keep Scientology Working:
(SNIP)
Gregg
Also note ; OSA Thug Ramsay continues to act as a TradeMark Terrorist
on behalf of his superior DSA Al Buttnor and the criminally convicted
corporation of Scientology.
see:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/1051/trdp105117800e.html
Christopher Wood - xenu.ca
Damn, I keep forgetting to mention this one as well. I shall endeavor
to include it from here on in. Anybody got any more, while we're here?
>"Evil Incompetent Financial Genius and Spiritualist"
>
>Gregg Hagglund SP7
>Free Toronto
Rev Fredric L. Rice
>"Rev Fredric L. Rice" <fr...@SPAMNOTlinkline.com> wrote in message
>news:tbgcrdp...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Velcro Kitty <vel...@home.com> wrote:
>> >Kng Peter wrote:
>> >> This last week, while working on our film "The Profit," Patricia greenway and I
>> >> picketed both the Toronto, Canada and Los Angeles Scientology facilities.
>> >> As some of you may know, I am the Director and Patricia is the Producer of "The
>> >> Profit," a film about a cult leader, which has been relentlessly attacked by
>> >> the Scientologists.
>> >> About ten days ago we received a call from the film's music composer, a young
>> >> lady who lives alone. She reported that a neighbor had caught a person
>> >> stealing the composer's trash about 5:30AM. She was frightened by the thought
>> >> of a strange man prowling around her house in the pre-dawn hours, so Patricia
>> >> and I decided to picket Scientology as kind of a "payback."
>> >Peter,
>> > As I see it, there are one of two reasons for you saying this. Number
>> > one, you're stating that Scientology is guilty of this without any
>> > proof whatsoever.
>> Not only have your crime bosses been caught stealing people's trash from
>> around the United States over the past six years, the license plate of your
>> crime boss was written down by a citizen. Aside from the relevant facts of
>> the criminals being caught in the act stealing people's trash in the early
>> morning hours like some dope-dealing crack head, we find that only Scientology
>> crime bosses have any motive for stealing people's trash.
>> Time to wake the frock up and smell the fraud, you insane nut.
> Oh, we *can* smell you, Freddie.
Does Mr. Poopy Pants also steal people's trash? What were you trying to
do when you tried to break into that person's residence? Steal the trash?
http://www.skeptictank.org/ramsayst.rm
In that video tape of you allegedly attempting a breaking-and-entering,
I see that you apparently hid something in your left hand as you made
your escape. Was it by any chance a piece of trash? Or was it the guy's
mail?
---
Send information concerning incidents of racketeering and