LERMA/CARTO ASSOCIATION
Anonymous
Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops. I
repost it here as personally I despise Mr. Carto and the intolerance
and
the blatant support of NAZI ideology for which he stands.
Lerma should either refute his affiliation with Mr. Carto's
organizations or admit it fully (as he does in the e-mail posting) and
be prepared to suffer the consequences of going to bed with one of the
pre-eminent neo-NAZI, Jew haters in the world today.
So far as I know, Lerma and FACTNet have never distanced themselves
from Carto and his associations.
--start of e-mail posting--
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Sep 1995 10:03:31 -0400
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 10:03:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Arnie Lerma <ale...@lightlink.com>
To: Kim Baker <K...@uctlib.uct.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Co-ordination
In-Reply-To: <m0spXOY...@uctmail.uct.ac.za>
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I was asked to speak at the 40th anneversary convention
of liberty lobby.
my talk was the liberty tree essay.
after I read the 1766 dedication by silas downer
I had to wait until the applause died down to continue...
I suggest that we dont promote my relationship
with Willis Carto.
Willis, BTW. had a group called 'liberty &property' in 1955
The Spotlight is purging its advertiser list of
all questionable groups, neo-nazi's, white supermacists
etc. Some of the ads are placed by ADL just to make the
spotlight deadagentable.
We have the full support of Willis Carto, and the
the 'patriot' movement in the United States.
They have a web page for patriots and have done
much research on browser links and various
web indexes, and they will be including pointers
to our story.
more as I learn it.
(I addressed room of 175 people).
from all over the usa..
Arnie
--end of e-mail message---
Joe Harrington
Anonymous wrote:
>
> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops. I
> repost it here as personally I despise Mr. Carto and the intolerance
> and
> the blatant support of NAZI ideology for which he stands.
Do you feel the same way about Tom Marcellus, a major donor to the IAS,
who was Carto's right hand man for over 10 years, and the individual who
ran the IHR for several years until his Scientology membership was
disclosed in a newspaper article in the UK, in the spring of 95?
Joe
Hiram B. Granbury
Anonymous wrote:
>
> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops. I
> repost it here as personally I despise Mr. Carto and the intolerance
> and
> the blatant support of NAZI ideology for which he stands.
Once again, the ANONYMOUS GUTLESS WONDER.
Ignore this lose, since he's got no balls to post under his real name.
David M. Cook
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 03:57:28 +0200 (MET DST), Anonymous
<nob...@REPLAY.COM> wrote:
Bloody typical.
>Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
>it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
In other words, it's believability is utterly nil.
Dave Cook
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <1997093001...@basement.replay.com>,
>
>Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
>repost it here as personally I despise Mr. Carto and the intolerance
>and
>the blatant support of NAZI ideology for which he stands.
A load of the usual goofy personal attacks are appearing anonymously
against Lerma/FACTNET, indicating that they must be doinf something
right against the "Church" of Scientology to merit such attacks.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Diane Richardson
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:55:10 -0400, rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman)
wrote:
>In article <1997093001...@basement.replay.com>, nob...@REPLAY.COM
>(Anonymous) wrote:
>
>> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
>> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
>
>This is about the 4th or 5th time you, or some other jerk, has posted
>this here. Nobody has yet answered my question: How did you come
>into possession of this private e-mail message (assuming that it is
>authentic, which it might not be)?
Why don't you ask Kim Baker, Ron?
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Rob Clark
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 03:57:28 +0200 (MET DST), nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
wrote:
>So far as I know, Lerma and FACTNet have never distanced themselves
>from Carto and his associations.
and your cult has never distanced itself from "patron emeritus" thomas
marcellus, a member of the very same organization. but i guess he's
"upstat" and you don't mind if HE is a holocaust-denying nazi.
rob
Ron Newman
> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
This is about the 4th or 5th time you, or some other jerk, has posted
this here. Nobody has yet answered my question: How did you come
into possession of this private e-mail message (assuming that it is
authentic, which it might not be)?
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Gunbunny
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:54:45 +0100, Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
<da...@xemu.demon.co.uk>, <rwkuCRBF...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote :
>In article <1997093001...@basement.replay.com>,
>Anonymous <nob...@REPLAY.COM> writes:
>>
>>Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
>>it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops. I
>>repost it here as personally I despise Mr. Carto and the intolerance
>>and
>>the blatant support of NAZI ideology for which he stands.
>
>A load of the usual goofy personal attacks are appearing anonymously
>against Lerma/FACTNET, indicating that they must be doinf something
>right against the "Church" of Scientology to merit such attacks.
>
Oh come on! Lerma is on his own and as about effective as a killer bee
in a glass jar. I don't think CoS is behind these post since this is
old stuff. Could be someone trying to portray themselves as victims to some
potential donations.
Now I wonder who could want to do that?
Keith
-----------------------------------------------------------
! Keith Wyatt http://www.teleport.com/~kewyatt !
! PGP KEY by finger and keyservers !
-----------------------------------------------------------
there has been a great deal of incorrect information posted
about me on ars, perhaps because too little available
information has lead to insufficient conclusions being drawn.
Paulette Cooper
bagheera
Ron:
Don't worry about it Ron, and forget about Diane's needling comments.
The important thing to note here is that although the cult is trying to DA
Mr. Lerma with weird bullshit about, oh no!!! a Lerma/Carto association,
the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
ground, and he's fighting them tooth and nail. Carto is fighting the good
fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that the
cult believes could negatively affect them both, NOTHING in the UNIVERSE
compares to the stigma and fascist history of the CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY. And
if the cult got the e-mail illegally or not, matters not. Kim Baker has
had her share of unbelieveable harrassment and hell from what I've read on
this NG. They probably got it when her defenses were down. Oh, and Diane
Richardson is just being catty and mean. Ignore her.
Best regards,
Bagheera
--
"Any stigma will do to beat a dogma."
-Philip Guedalla-
Diane Richardson <ref...@bway.net> wrote in article
<34318779...@snews.zippo.com>...
> On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:55:10 -0400, rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <1997093001...@basement.replay.com>,
> >(Anonymous) wrote:
> >
> >> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
> >> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
> >
> >This is about the 4th or 5th time you, or some other jerk, has posted
> >this here. Nobody has yet answered my question: How did you come
> >into possession of this private e-mail message (assuming that it is
> >authentic, which it might not be)?
>
Tilman Hausherr
In <01bcce77$9a054d00$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
<bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
>the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
>ground, and he's fighting them tooth and nail. Carto is fighting the good
>fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that the
Carto's "stigma" is that he is a holocaust denier, like the
scientologist "patron" Tom Marcellus. I'd prefer not associate myself
with this guy. Scientologists have of course less problems with this, as
anti-semitism fits into the scientology way of thinking (scientologists
have contempt for every victims, per their "overt-motivator" logic). I
wonder what your motives are to claim that "Carto is fighting the good
fight". Both Carto and Marcellus are lying scum and I hope they will
arrested when they travel to Europe.
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
NEW: Find broken links on your web site with "Xenu's Link Sleuth":
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
bagheera
Tilman:
Wow! Good argument. But a misguided one. Tom Marcellus was/is OSA
(unbeknowngst to Mr. Carto at the time) who worked for Carto for ten years
at the Institute for Historical Review. Then one day, Mr. Marcellus took
over IHR, wresting it from Mr. Carto, confiscating IHR's files for OSA, in
order that OSA might utilize IHR's list of contributors to help undermine
support for Mr. Carto, and also to try and destroy publicly and
politically, individuals supporters of IHR from around the world,
particularly in Germany. Previous to Mr. Marcellus and OSA taking control
of IHR, it was clear that neither Mr. Carto nor IHR had the position that
"there was no Holocaust." As I am sure you are aware, the tactics of OSA
are quite nasty and heavy handed, just because you are German, Tilman, does
not make you a NAZI, but OSA's DA packs sure don't recognize that fact or
subscribe to logic. The point of DA'ing an organization or individual is
to undermine them, to cause them to become unpopular so that they can be
attacked publicly, etc., etc., I know you know OSA dogma. I would never
defend a denier of the Holocaust, Tilman. The litigation involved in the
confiscation of IHR by OSA revealed that IHR/Mr. Carto held the position
that the number of Holocaust victims was/is perhaps somewhat inflated --
not that the Holocaust did not occur. The opinion that Holocaust victim
numbers might be inflated is not necessarily an unbelievable or vile
opinion to have, as all estimates of numbers of victims of the Holocaust
are not verifiable, and as such they are just that, --estimates. I doubt
that any person on earth would be willing to go and dig up every victim and
count them all, would you? Morbid point or no, the fact that the number of
victims are estimates logically leaves room for debate, however distasteful
or positive. Politically speaking, it is not unusual for governments to
estimate numbers (any numbers applying to anything) to further their own
political designs. I believe that the very worst that IHR/Mr. Carto's
opinions have debated (before Marcellus, OSA troll took it over) was that
the $10 billion a year subsidy that the US gives to Israel every year is
overkill, considering the National Debt of the United States and the lack
of funds for the public good as it is. The thought continues that the
rationale behind such a large subsidy to Israel might/could be based on the
guilt attibuted to perhaps inflated numbers of victims during the
Holocaust. A novel argument to say the least, but certainly not an
unbelievable one, and certainly not a denial of the Holocaust whatsoever.
Mr. Carto is fighting a valiant fight, in his battle against $cientology.
He IS fighting the good fight regardless of your opinion of him. Not only
that, but his newspaper regularly publishes lovely articles about the
nature of $cientology in order to spread the word warning against them. He
is doing a good deed Tilman, and not even you can deny it. You should also
recognize in your paranoia not to be labelled a NAZI, that fighting
$cientology yourself does not make you or anyone else guilty by
association. First because Carto is not a bad man, and second, because
guilt by association is a logical fallacy. Should you still feel
embittered by my comments, then please try and find the book "The
Mendehlson Trial", and in the meantime I will try and dig up the opinion by
the presiding judge at the trial who clearly acknowledged the fact that
neither IHR nor Mr. Carto, previous to Mr. Marcellus seizing control of
IHR, (after which Mr. Carto had no participation or input into any matter
involving IHR) ever denied the occurrence of the Holocaust. The
Carto-denial thing is the bunk, Tilman. It is DAing.
I wasn't around when a discussion of this subject occurred on this NG some
time ago. Apparently my point has been proved with evidence before now.
I have no motive, other than to point out that Mr. Carto is battling
$cientology, and that it is a good thing and that we need all the help we
can get, and that Carto's help is good help. Tom Marcellus is OSA. Carto
is well aware of this now and is no friend of Marcellus. Marcellus and OSA
has victimized the supporters of IHR, and is busily twisting and warping
the IHR and its messages to support $cientology. The judge who ruled in
the case regarding IHR is well aware of this. That is all. Per your own
description of him, it would appear that if you define $cientology as an
anti-semetic organization, and Mr. Carto is fighting $cientology, then
perhaps he is not that anti-Semetic after all. For example, Noam Chomsky
objects to the existence of Israel, as he views it as a "Sparta" created by
the US to do the bidding of the United States. Mr. Chomsky is Jewish, and
many call him a "self-hating Jew" for expressing his view that the land
belongs to the Palestinians, and that the existance of Israel is harming
the Jews. This nasty labeling is done just to undermine that train of
thought and keep it from public consideration. Thought Police!!!!!
I beg your pardon in advance for any distress I may have caused you. I
look forward to your reply regardless of whether or not it be wrathful or
passive. You have my regards,
Sincerely and Without Prejudice,
Bagheera
--
"Any stigma will do to beat a dogma."
-Philip Guedalla-
Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote in article
<343685d4...@news.snafu.de>...
James J. Lippard
Added alt.revisionism to crossposting.
In article <01bccea0$25d904c0$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>,
bagheera <bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
>Tilman:
>
>Wow! Good argument. But a misguided one. Tom Marcellus was/is OSA
>(unbeknowngst to Mr. Carto at the time) who worked for Carto for ten years
>at the Institute for Historical Review. Then one day, Mr. Marcellus took
>over IHR, wresting it from Mr. Carto, confiscating IHR's files for OSA, in
>order that OSA might utilize IHR's list of contributors to help undermine
>support for Mr. Carto, and also to try and destroy publicly and
>politically, individuals supporters of IHR from around the world,
>particularly in Germany. Previous to Mr. Marcellus and OSA taking control
>of IHR, it was clear that neither Mr. Carto nor IHR had the position that
>"there was no Holocaust." As I am sure you are aware, the tactics of OSA
This is itself historical revisionism. The IHR has always propounded
Holocaust revisionism. It was not introduced to the organization by Tom
Marcellus. (The IHR always has tried to claim that it isn't "denying the
Holocaust," but at the same time it has always maintained that there was
no program of extermination of the Jews (or other groups).)
>are quite nasty and heavy handed, just because you are German, Tilman, does
>not make you a NAZI, but OSA's DA packs sure don't recognize that fact or
>subscribe to logic. The point of DA'ing an organization or individual is
>to undermine them, to cause them to become unpopular so that they can be
>attacked publicly, etc., etc., I know you know OSA dogma. I would never
>defend a denier of the Holocaust, Tilman. The litigation involved in the
>confiscation of IHR by OSA revealed that IHR/Mr. Carto held the position
>that the number of Holocaust victims was/is perhaps somewhat inflated --
>not that the Holocaust did not occur. The opinion that Holocaust victim
>numbers might be inflated is not necessarily an unbelievable or vile
>opinion to have, as all estimates of numbers of victims of the Holocaust
>are not verifiable, and as such they are just that, --estimates. I doubt
The IHR has never just claimed that the numbers are a little off. They
have claimed that there were no gas chambers, there was no program of
extermination, Hitler didn't plan to exterminate the Jews, etc. This was
not introduced to the IHR by Tom Marcellus--it is the viewpoint the
organization has always pushed.
I don't believe you.
--
Jim Lippard lippard@(primenet.com ediacara.org skeptic.com)
Phoenix, Arizona http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/
PGP Fingerprint: B130 7BE1 18C1 AA4C 4D51 388F 6E6D 2C7A 36D3 CB4F
William Barwell
In article <34318fad...@news.mindspring.com>,
Shithead is wrong about Lerma and FACTnet too. This had nothing
whatsoever to do with FACTnet. And Lerma expalined this. Arnaldo
was involved with the Perot campaign. As a part of that campaign,
he was offered a subscription to Spotlight, the Liberty Lobby newspaper.
Recognizing that LL people had been trying to get involved in teh Perot
campaign he did indeed take teh offered subscription to see what thgis
organization was about. He was not pleased with what he found. But that
was the extent of Lerm's involvement with any Carto organizations. This
sub gave him "voting rights' in a meaningless spotlight opinion poll type
organization, which was a rather useless orginzation Alerma stated he did
not bother with. This was long before Alerma became a FACTnet director.
More lies from a desperate cult that cannot tell the truth about anything
and itself was very nuch involved with Carto and the far right IRH,
the main holocaut revisionist source of this species of extremism, run for
some years by a Scientologist.
Scientology has pointedly refused to distance itself from this
organization, even when this embarressing connection has been repeatedly
pointed out.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Ron Newman
> >> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
> >> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
> >
> >This is about the 4th or 5th time you, or some other jerk, has posted
> >this here. Nobody has yet answered my question: How did you come
> >into possession of this private e-mail message (assuming that it is
> >authentic, which it might not be)?
>
> Why don't you ask Kim Baker, Ron?
Because she can't answer the question that I'm asking, which is ...
how did this correspondence come into the possession of the person
who posted it here?
Ron Newman
In article <01bcce77$9a054d00$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
<bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
> Ron:
> Don't worry about it Ron, and forget about Diane's needling comments.
> The important thing to note here is that although the cult is trying to DA
> Mr. Lerma with weird bullshit about, oh no!!! a Lerma/Carto association,
> the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
> ground, and he's fighting them tooth and nail.
Willis Carto is neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic scum.
If CoS and Carto get into litigation with each other,
my reaction is going to be, "please, is there some way
they could both lose?"
> Carto is fighting the good
> fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that the
> cult believes could negatively affect them both, NOTHING in the UNIVERSE
> compares to the stigma and fascist history of the CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY.
Some things are worse than Scientology - Nazism is one of them.
roger gonnet
Tilman Hausherr wrote:
>
> In <01bcce77$9a054d00$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
> <bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
>
> >the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
> good
> >fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that
> the
>
> scientologist "patron" Tom Marcellus. I'd prefer not associate myself
> with this guy. Scientologists have of course less problems with this,
> as
> anti-semitism fits into the scientology way of thinking
> (scientologists
> have contempt for every victims, per their "overt-motivator" logic).
True enough, but as elhubbie gave a definition of a scientologist
"somebody who is not a victim" (I don't remember where for the moment),
and as simultaneously he was defending the fact that his inept
"religion" was victimized by psychiatrists, FBI, Interpol, AMA, APA,
WFMH, governments, polices, Press and Medias, - allegated having formed
a conspiracy against his works - we have this corollary: "as
scientologists expose themselves as victims, they are performing
continual overts against those victimizing them"... etc.
Roger
James Wood
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 07:08:43 GMT, Gun-...@hotmail.com
(Gunbunny) wrote:
>Now I wonder who could want to do that?
>
>Keith
>
You tell us, g_b. The last DA you commented on was the one that
seemed to come from you about yourself... now I wonder why you'd
want to do that?
btw, what's your public key signature?
James
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Tilman Hausherr
In <01bccea0$25d904c0$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
<bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
>can get, and that Carto's help is good help. Tom Marcellus is OSA. Carto
>is well aware of this now and is no friend of Marcellus. Marcellus and OSA
>has victimized the supporters of IHR, and is busily twisting and warping
>the IHR and its messages to support $cientology. The judge who ruled in
>the case regarding IHR is well aware of this. That is all. Per your own
>description of him, it would appear that if you define $cientology as an
>anti-semetic organization, and Mr. Carto is fighting $cientology, then
>perhaps he is not that anti-Semetic after all. For example, Noam Chomsky
Carto and Marcellus are both anti-semitic. They are just two scumbags
who battle over some amount of money. You say that the "The judge who
ruled in the case regarding IHR is well aware of this" - please bring
your evidence, als explain also what "this" is. Btw evidence should be
more than an article from "The Spotlight".
To inform yourself about the IHR, I suggest you have a look at the
www.mizkor.org
Tilman
wgert
Gun-...@hotmail.com (Gunbunny) wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:54:45 +0100, Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
><da...@xemu.demon.co.uk>, <rwkuCRBF...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote :
>>In article <1997093001...@basement.replay.com>,
>>Anonymous <nob...@REPLAY.COM> writes:
>>>
>>>Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
>>>it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops. I
>>>repost it here as personally I despise Mr. Carto and the intolerance
>>>and
>>>the blatant support of NAZI ideology for which he stands.
>>
>>A load of the usual goofy personal attacks are appearing anonymously
>>against Lerma/FACTNET, indicating that they must be doinf something
>>right against the "Church" of Scientology to merit such attacks.
>>
>Oh come on! Lerma is on his own and as about effective as a killer bee
>in a glass jar. I don't think CoS is behind these post since this is
>old stuff. Could be someone trying to portray themselves as victims to some
>potential donations.
>Now I wonder who could want to do that?
>Keith
Yeah, but Lerma takes himself seriously, even if no one else does.
He could still be suffering from the effects of a flashback:
"... This is important and frankly your honor, this small fact is what
saved me. After rinsing it very well under hot water I brushed my
teeth and went to bed. About an hour later, I found myself VERY
paranoid, and unable to relax. I attributed this, at first, to the
extreme stress of the raid, until, some minutes later, I noted how
clammy, and sweaty my palms were, and then, with my eyes shut, I began
to hallucinate, geometric images...
"...I got out of bed, and then realized, having taken LSD in the
1960's perhaps 10 times, that I had been drugged.
"...I also saved a urine sample that to this day is in the back of my
refrigerator. The toothbrush is still in the possession of Detective
Moore at this date.
"...What I did suffer from was some scrambled memories, and a
compromised ability to recall short term events...."
- - Arnie Lerma --
wgert
Read the Rogues Gallery of ARS Bigots
www.dancris.com/~rshaw
Ron Newman
In article <3444ce52...@news.snafu.de>, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
Hausherr) wrote:
> Carto and Marcellus are both anti-semitic. They are just two scumbags
> who battle over some amount of money. You say that the "The judge who
> ruled in the case regarding IHR is well aware of this" - please bring
> your evidence, als explain also what "this" is. Btw evidence should be
> more than an article from "The Spotlight".
>
> To inform yourself about the IHR, I suggest you have a look at the
> www.mizkor.org
^^^^^^
That should be: www.nizkor.org
^^^^^^
Joe Harrington
> > >> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
> > >
> > >this here. Nobody has yet answered my question: How did you come
> > >into possession of this private e-mail message (assuming that it is
> > >authentic, which it might not be)?
> >
> > Why don't you ask Kim Baker, Ron?
>
> Because she can't answer the question that I'm asking, which is ...
> how did this correspondence come into the possession of the person
> who posted it here?
>
During the OSA raid of Arnie's house, they seized the hard drives that
included all the e-mail files. So if anybody was corresponding with
Arnie around the time of the rape of his personal property, OSA most
likely has a copy of it. And thats how the OSA posters got it.
Kim acknowledged that she compromised some private e-mail when OSA was
pressuring her. So perhaps they got the same copy from her too. I know
they have copies of my mail to Arnie and Kim. I think they may have
seized some copies of e-mail from Diane Richardson that Arnie had on his
hard drive, but I'm not certain about that.
Joe
Nico Garcia
rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) writes:
> In article <01bcce77$9a054d00$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
> <bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't worry about it Ron, and forget about Diane's needling comments.
> > The important thing to note here is that although the cult is trying to DA
> > Mr. Lerma with weird bullshit about, oh no!!! a Lerma/Carto association,
> > the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
> > ground, and he's fighting them tooth and nail.
>
> Willis Carto is neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic scum.
>
> If CoS and Carto get into litigation with each other,
> my reaction is going to be, "please, is there some way
> they could both lose?"
Yes, by wasting each other's money. Unfortunately, shit floats, and
their cases will tie up court time better used elsewhere.
> > Carto is fighting the good
> > fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that the
> > cult believes could negatively affect them both, NOTHING in the UNIVERSE
> > compares to the stigma and fascist history of the CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY.
>
> Some things are worse than Scientology - Nazism is one of them.
Amen. Much better to nip fascism and dangerous political frauds in the
bud by doing things like exposing $cientology, exposing
cyberpromo.com, exposing criminality and censorship wherever they
enter our lives.
--
Nico Garcia
ra...@tiac.net
<PGP is obviously a good idea: look at who objects to it.>
Martin Hunt
In article <34348A...@worldnet.att.net>,
Joe Harrington <joe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>During the OSA raid of Arnie's house, they seized the hard drives that
>included all the e-mail files. So if anybody was corresponding with
>Arnie around the time of the rape of his personal property, OSA most
>likely has a copy of it. And thats how the OSA posters got it.
>
>Kim acknowledged that she compromised some private e-mail when OSA was
>pressuring her. So perhaps they got the same copy from her too. I know
>they have copies of my mail to Arnie and Kim. I think they may have
>seized some copies of e-mail from Diane Richardson that Arnie had on his
>hard drive, but I'm not certain about that.
Right, Joe, and they seized some of my email when they raided
Dennis Erlich and stole his email records.
One of the reasons I say that whatever you write about Scientology
on the Internet, assume that OSA is reading it too, and don't worry.
ttyl,
martin.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Use "Xenu" in Subject: line of email.
Rob Clark
rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman) wrote:
>Willis Carto is neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic scum.
>If CoS and Carto get into litigation with each other,
>my reaction is going to be, "please, is there some way
>they could both lose?"
gotta agree.
sometimes, the enemy of my enemy just AIN'T my friend at all,
but is just another scumbag.
rob
Tilman Hausherr
In <01bcce77$9a054d00$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
<bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
> Don't worry about it Ron, and forget about Diane's needling comments.
>The important thing to note here is that although the cult is trying to DA
>Mr. Lerma with weird bullshit about, oh no!!! a Lerma/Carto association,
>the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
>ground, and he's fighting them tooth and nail. Carto is fighting the good
>fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that the
>cult believes could negatively affect them both, NOTHING in the UNIVERSE
>compares to the stigma and fascist history of the CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY. And
>if the cult got the e-mail illegally or not, matters not. Kim Baker has
>had her share of unbelieveable harrassment and hell from what I've read on
>this NG. They probably got it when her defenses were down. Oh, and Diane
>Richardson is just being catty and mean. Ignore her.
I suggest you read this. From the beginning to the end. And so should every
carto supporter. And every scientologist who believes that the holocaust never
happened. (Btw, is there any scientologist who distances himself from Tom
Marcellus?)
Archive-name: holocaust/ihr
Last-modified: 1996/07/08
This FAQ may be cited as:
McVay, Kenneth N. (1996) "HOLOCAUST FAQ: Willis Carto & The Institute
for Historical Review" Usenet news.answers. Available via anonymous ftp
from ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/american/ihr/ihr.faq1, (part 1) and
ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/american/ihr/ihr.faq2, (part02). ~25 pages.
The most current version of this FAQ is posted every 45 days in the
Usenet newsgroups alt.conspiracy, alt.revisionism, soc.history,
soc.answers, alt.answers and news.answers, and archived as
pub/orgs/american/ihr/ihr.faq1 (~.faq2) in the anonymous ftp archive
on ftp.almanac.bc.ca.
European users should use our German mirror:
ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/pub/orgs/american/ihr/ihr.faq1
ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/pub/orgs/american/ihr/ihr.faq2
IHR: A Layman's Guide to Willis Carto
& The Institute for Historical Review (Part 01)
1.0 Introduction & Editorial Notes............................. 1
1.1 Copyright Notice......................................... 1
2.0 Background Information..................................... 1
2.1 Willis Carto............................................. 2
2.2 Liberty and Property..................................... 5
3.0 IHR Publications........................................... 5
3.1 Noontide Press........................................... 6
3.3 The Journal of Historical Review......................... 7
3.4 The Spotlight............................................ 7
3.5 Advisory and Editorial Personalities & Authors........... 8
3.51 Andrew Arnold.......................................... 8
3.52 Dr. Robert Faurisson................................... 8
3.53 Dietlieb Felderer...................................... 9
3.54 William Lindsay........................................ 9
3.55 Theodore O'Keefe....................................... 9
3.56 Greg Raven.............................................10
3.57 Henri Roques...........................................10
3.60 Udo Walendy............................................10
3.65 Mark Weber.............................................10
4.0 Political Organization.....................................16
4.1 National Youth Alliance....................................16
4.2 Populist Action Committee..................................16
4.3 Populist Party.............................................21
5.0 IHR Investigates Conference Attendees......................22
6.0 Epilog.....................................................22
7.0 Reference Section..........................................24
7.1 Suggested Reading........................................25
7.2 Glossary.................................................25
7.3 Works Cited..............................................25
[IHR] [Page 1]
1.0 Introduction & Editorial Notes
"If antisemitism has a core, factual meaning, it was demonstrated
here." Thus did Judge Bork, in 1984, dismiss the suit brought by
Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby against 'The Wall Street Journal' for
having called it "anti-Semitic."
The Coalition for Human Dignity describes the Institute for
Historical Review as "... a pseudo-academic think tank dedicated to
disproving that the Holocaust happened. Founded by the dean of
American anti-Semites Willis Carto, IHR functions as a clearinghouse
for Holocaust denial and a meeting ground for anti-Semitic scholars
in the United States." (CHD, "Denial")
This document is presented as part of a continuing effort to provide
those confronting the IHR's propaganda machine with a research tool
to help them understand the nature of the organization, its
associations and some of the principal players. It was compiled and
edited with the help of lots of concerned folks on the network; without
their assistance it probably could not have been produced. (Several
sections within this document are incomplete, and have been marked
[Work in progress] - with luck, those sections will have been completed
within the next month or so.) In particular, I would like to acknowledge
Richard Hatch's PAC contribution, which was invaluable.
The documents cited in this work which are available from our ftp
server are often noted in the form (get archive filename). The
path is provided to the file via ftp.almanac.bc.ca.
1.1 Copyright Notice
This post, as a collection of information, is Copyright 1993-1996 by Ken
McVay, as a work of literature. Distribution by any electronic means
is granted with the understanding that the article not be altered
in any way. Permission to distribute in printed form must be obtained
in writing. The removal of this copyright notice is forbidden.
2.0 Background Information
The Institute for Historical Review was founded in 1979 by Lewis
Brandon, who also served as the first director. (Lewis Brandon is an
alias for William David McCalden, a British neo-fascist who in 1975
had founded Britain's National Party, a break-away from the notorious
neo-Nazi National Front.)
The IHR operates under the umbrella of the Legion for Survival of
Freedom, a registered non-profit corporation in the State of Texas.
The Institute for Historical Review is the moving force in the
movement to deny the Holocaust. Its initial meeting was opened by
Willis Carto, who also funds the organization, and whom some
(including Dennis King, author of the 1989 work "Lyndon LaRouche and
the New American Fascism") credit with starting it. No matter - with
McCalden out of the way (he left the IHR, and has since died), the
IHR was Carto's mouthpiece, until his forced ouster in late
1994.
[IHR] [Page 2]
Among the speakers at the 1980 convention were the Swede Felderer,
convicted and institutionalised in his country, and the Frenchman,
Robert Faurisson, convicted in his country of libel and promoting racism
and expelled from his University (though he still misrepresents himself
as member of its faculty).
2.1 Willis Carto
Carto, born in 1926 in Indiana, had helped edit "Right" (a
mid-fifties San Francisco newsletter for an information clearinghouse for
antisemitic activities), was, inter alia, director of the far right
Congress of Freedom and, briefly, organiser for the John Birch
Society, from which he was later expelled.
In 1989, Dennis King provided this picture of Carto's ideological
background during his discussion of the connection between Lyndon
LaRouche, the NCLC (see Glossary, below), and Carto's Liberty Lobby
(get pub/orgs/american/ihr/larouche.ihr):
Carto, founder of the Liberty Lobby, was by far the most
successful and influential American anti-Semite of the 1970s. He
was an intellectual disciple of the late Francis Parker Yockey,
who roamed Europe and North America in the 1950s futilely
attempting to build an underground movement. Carto met Yockey
only once - in San Francisco in 1960, when Yockey was in jail
awaiting trial for possession of false passports. Several days
after their meeting, Yockey committed suicide in his cell by
taking cyanide. Carto, already an ultrarightist, dedicated
himself to carrying out Yockey's mission to save Western
civilization.
This mission was set forth in Yockey's 'Imperium,' a 600-page
synthesis of Nazi racialism and Oswald Spengler's philosophy of
history. The book was dedicated to the 'Hero of the Second World
War' (Hitler). But Carto, although devoted to Yockey's ideas, had
no illusions about Yockey's tactics. Instead of engaging in inept
conspiracies, he concentrated on building a political movement and
developed a populist cover ideology. Although he discreetly sold
'Mein Kampf' and 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' by mail, he
publicly denied being either a Nazi or an anti-Semite - he was
merely 'anti-Zionist.'
Carto defended Hitler's heritage, not by saying the Holocaust had
been a good thing, but by denying that it ever took place. He
founded the Institute for Historical Review to prove that the
alleged murder of six million Jews was a hoax invented by Zionists
to make people feel sorry for them. Carto went so far as to
publish a theory that the gas ovens at Auschwitz were really just
an industrial facility for converting coal into oil, operated by
happy well-fed Jewish prisoners.
[IHR] [Page 3]
Carto's Liberty Lobby, based in Washington, D.C., and nominally
headed by Colonel Curtis B. Dall (a former son-in-law of
President Franklin D. Roosevelt), enjoyed friendly ties with
conservative congressmen. It published a weekly tabloid, 'The
Spotlight,' which by 1979 enjoyed a paid circulation of almost
200,000*. Its articles championed income-tax rebels, protested the
plight of family farmers, and promoted quack cancer cures such as
laetrile. Its favorite political targets included the
Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, Henry Kissenger, the Council on
Foreign Relations, and the 'Zionist entity' in Palestine." (King,
39-40)
*According to George and Wilcox, circulation peaked at 315,000 in 1981
and had fallen to about 90,000 by 1992. (George & Wilcox, 260)
What kind of a man is Carto? The answer to that question is suggested
by his writing:
There are 600 million Chinese and about 200 million Russians. All
united in a determination to destroy the West. And we have been
so misled that we live in a dream world - far away from reality.
Hitler's defeat was the defeat of Europe. And America. How could
we have been so blind? The blame, it seems, must be laid at the
door of the international Jews. It was their propaganda, lies and
demands which blinded the West as to what Germany was doing. ---
from a letter to Norris Holt
Who is using who? Who is calling the shots? History supplies the
answer to this. History tells us plainly who our Enemy is. Our
Enemy today is the same Enemy of 50 years ago and before - and
that was before Communism. The Communists are "using" the Jews we
are told ... who was "using" the Jews fifty years ago - one
hundred or one thousand years ago. History supplies the answer.
The Jews came first and remain Public Enemy No. 1. --- a memo to
himself
In fact, no objective Scholar can deny today that the world would
be a far better place to live if Germany had won - even if it had
meant the defeat of American arms!
Let us first understand who won and who lost the last war. The
victors were Soviet Russia, international Communism, Red China,
Israel, international Zionism, the international money
manipulators (Wall Street-CFR crowd) and rising colored
nationalisms the world over.
[IHR] [Page 4]
Let us now name the losers: All of the European nations, most
certainly including Britain and her now non-existent Empire, the
United States, White world-hegemony and the idea of the
war-preventing, world-saving philosophy of nationalism and
non-interference in the affairs of others. ..........
(Hitler and Chamberlain, incidentally, and contrary to the massive
lies told about "Munich," worked out a sensible and workable
agreement at Munich to save Europe from a war. In return for a
free hand in the east, Hitler guaranteed Chamberlain that Germany
would not contest Britain's dominance on the seas, or covet any of
her colonies. The deal was broken by the war-madness stirred up
by the British press in obedience to the financial power after
Hitler marched on Poland - and also by pressure from Roosevelt.)
..........
Israel and Zionism would be unknown - still a crazy
dream in the minds of a few fanatics - and the secret
international power of the Zionist conspiracy would not be in
existence nor the manifold culture distortions which flow from
this disease source into all of the western nations. ..........
Juvenile delinquency would be uncommon because the youth of
America would be filled with patriotism, the natural aftermath of
defeat in war, and there would be something to aspire to.
Desegregation and the cultural negrification of America would be
unknown. ..........
What would have been the effect of a German
victory inside Germany? It is important to remember that Hitler's
ambition stopped in Europe - he would have gone no further. He
would have stopped if for no other reason that he yearned to build
Germany into an architectural paradise. The result of German
victory would have brought a true internationalism of Europe! The
United Europe only dreamed of today would have been a certain
result of the war. ..........
The important thing to note is
that a German victory would have assured that the life-span of
the White world would have been extended for many centuries more
than now seems likely; indeed, for the "thousand years" promised
by Hitler. --- from American Mercury, Summer 1973
By the way, the author of this last article is "E. L. Anderson,
Ph.D.", which is an alias for Carto.
What kind of a man is Willis Carto? You tell me...
In 1955 Carto founded Liberty Lobby as a right-wing political
pressure group in Washington D.C., and has been running it ever since.
[IHR] [Page 5]
The Simon Wiesenthal Center's recent infiltration report has this to
say about Carto:
Willis Carto is the most influential professional antisemite in
the United States. He is the founder of Liberty Lobby, the
Institute for Historical Review, the Noontide Press (which
distributes a wide range of racist and antisemitic titles), and
the Populist Party, whose 1988 Presidential candidate was David
Duke. Carto's name came up in nearly every conversation held
between Ron Furey, S.W.C. researcher, Richard Eaton, and the
neo-Nazis. Literature produced by the Carto organization is
widely read by German's radical right. In addition, several of
those interviewed know Mr. Carto personally. (Get
pub/orgs/american/wiesenthal.centre/swc.oprep) for the full
Wiesenthal report on the penetration of Germany's extreme right.)
2.2 Liberty and Property
Diamond tells us that "...Carto had also run an outfit called Liberty
and Property, and published a monthly newsletter called 'Right', from
1955 to 1960. Through 'Right' Carto attempted to link the
segregationist Citizen's Councils with the grassroots anti-communist
groups of the McCarthy era, and with some of the unsuccessful racist
splinter parties of the time. As it grew, the Liberty Lobby would
later downplay its Klan and neo-Nazi movement connections. But the
pages of 'Right' are a goldmine of evidence on the Lobby's racist
origins and agenda. Carto recommended that his readers join up with
George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party, whose leader J. B.
Stoner was convicted for the 1958 Klan bombing of the Bethel Baptist
Church in Alabama."
3.0 IHR Publications
The IHR publishes an unreviewed "journal," "The Journal of Historical
Review," as well as "The IHR Newsletter," and an "IHR Update."
Dan Gannon, the owner-operator of the Portland, Oregon, bulletin
board system known as "banished.uucp," published articles from
Carto's organization on a regular basis, presumably as a public
service to those wishing to obtain a more accurate understanding of
the true nature of Carto and his associates. Many of these documents
are archived by ftp.almanac.bc.ca, and thus available for anonymous
retrieval. (Mr. Gannon's computer system offers its users a steady
diet of anti-Semitic and racist material; Gannon is an eager
campaigner for Mr. Carto's anti-Semitic agenda.)
Why did Gannon do it, when he knew from past experience, both on
UseNet and GEnie, that he would be laughed at and hated for doing so?
Martinez provided the answer during a discussion of free speech
issues in general, and the Alan Berg show in particular:
[IHR] [Page 6]
Alan Berg gave huge amounts of air time to racists so that he
could satisfy his ego by responding to them and ridiculing them. The
racists know they will be ridiculed when they go on such programs,
and assume they will be despised by more than 99 percent of the
people who hear them spout their venom. But none of that is of any
matter to them. The fraction of 1 percent is. There they will find
the malcontents, the embittered, the bigots, and the sincerely
concerned but ignorant people like I was. The numbers are in their
favor, and they know it. Snyder's program [Tom Snyder interviewed
David Duke on television, and seeing that show led Martinez into the
supremacist camp. knm] may have reached 2 million listeners; if only
one-tenth of 1 percent of them respond favorably, they have recruited
2,000 people, no doubt swelling the ranks of their group ten- or
twentyfold. One hundredth of 1 percent would make them happy.
(Martinez, 242)
A parting comment or two regarding Mr. Gannon, from those he most
admires:
Prince Otto von Bismark, a member of the great chancellor's family,
charaterized Ribbentrop as 'such an imbecile he is a freak of
nature.' The French ambassador remarked: 'I could not talk to
Ribbentrop; he listened only to himself.' Goering referred to him
as 'Germany's number-one parrot,' because of his endless repetition
of meaningless claptrap." (Conot, Robert E. Justice at Nuremberg.
New York: Harper & Row, 1983, 52-53)
One can only wonder how these folks would have viewed Mr. Gannon...
IHR publications posted to UseNet newsgroups are archived on
ftp.almanac.bc.ca, and are available to the public via anonymous
ftp. In general, the filename reflects the source of the article:
IHR newsletters are prefaced with IHR, while JHR files are prefaced
with JHR. The file extensions reflect either the month and year of
publication, plus the volume number (if provided) i.e. IHR.0492n86
contains material from the April, 1993, newsletter, number 86, while
JHR.v12n4 contains material from the Journal of Historical Review,
volume 12, number 4. Spotlight articles use the form
"spotlight.mmyy," i.e. "spotlight.0193" contains material from the
January, 1993 editions.
3.1 Noontide Press
The publishing arm of the IHR and other related organisations,
Noontide Press, which can boast of such titles as "The Protocols of
the Learned Elders of Zion," "The six millions reconsidered" and
"Antizion," The treasurer of its holding company is Carto's wife
and until 1981 its firm office manager was one Lewis Brandon.
Noontide Press is owned by the Legion for Survival of Freedom,
which is the umbrella corporation under which the IHR itself operates.
Additional titles offered by Noontide press include these gems:
"Amendment to the Constitution" (Pace) - a proposal to restrict U.S.
citizenship to white people.
"Our Nordic Race" (Hoskins) - an "outline (of) present threats to
Nordic survival", complete with proposed measures to "protect and
preserve the Nordic race."
"The Testing of Negro Intelligence" (Osborne & McGurk) - the authors'
findings "give little comfort to egalitarians." Those findings are
based, of course, on "performance on intelligence tests from 1966-
1980."
[IHR] [Page 7]
"For Those Who Cannot Speak" (McLaughlin) - you may have guessed
that he's not talking about Holocaust victims. This book is a
"vigorous 'case for the defense' for National Socialist Germany."
"Hitler : the Unknown Artist" (Price) - "What a magnificent
production!", gushes the blurb. "The first comprehensive... catalog
of Hitler's paintings, drawings, sketches, doodles and daydreams."
Yes, folks, his daydreams.
And don't forget perennial favorites "Hitler at My Side" and "IQ and
Racial Differences".
Martinez mentions one more book published by Noontide Press, 'The Road
Back,' and notes that it has been used as a textbook for seminars
at the Aryan Nations. "It includes an illustrated chapter on methods
for mining roads and blowing up bridges."(Martinez, 241)
Mark Weber, writing in the East Bay Express (Get
pub/orgs/american/ihr/express.011792 for the complete Weber letter,
transcribed with permission for release on UseNet), claimed that
Noontide Press and the Institute for Historical Review were "entirely
independent" of the Liberty Lobby. This flew in the face of reality,
however, since the business license for both was filed by Carto's wife
Elisabeth, and Carto was listed on the letterhead of the IHR as
"founder." Carto's weekly, 'The Spotlight,' regularly promoted
Noontide Press as an integral part of the Liberty Lobby's
"Liberty Library." [Note: Following the ouster of Willis Carto
from the IHR in 1994, reportedly at gunpoint, Weber's assertion is
finally correct. knm]
Carto has apparently lost control of his Noontide Press
publishing arm, according to The Dignity Report, a publication of
the (Portland, Oregon) Coalition for Human Dignity's Research
Department. (Get pub/people/c/carto.willis/carto.005 for full details.)
This during the same period when Carto was successfully removed
from his controlling position at the Institute for Historical
Review. Legal maneuvers, however, continue - in October of
1995, Willis Carto filed a document with the Office of the
Secretary of State, Corporate Section, which outlined changes
to the Legion's charter, and signed the document as the
President of the Corporation. (URL ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/
orgs/american/legion-for-survival-of-freedom/legal contains
legal filings of interest with regard to the legal battle
between Willis Carto and Greg Raven.)
3.3 The Journal of Historical Review
In a mid-1995 fund-raising letter from the IHR, the authors
suggested that publication of the Journal might be discontinued,
due to serious financial problems. How much of this is rhetoric,
aimed at picking the pockets of supporters, and how much reflects
the loss of the Edison millions through the forced ouster of
Willis Carto is unknown.
In the meantime, Carto's _Spotlight_ announced (August, 1994)
the publication of "The Barnes Review," Carto's new Holocaust
denial publication, which will compete with the JHR for readers
and, of course, money. According to the ADL (ADL Special Report,
"Embattled Bigots: A Split in the Ranks of the Holocaust Denial
Movement", p. 5), the _Spotlight_ staff will assist in the
prouduction of the _Barnes_Review_.
3.4 The Spotlight
The Spotlight evolved from the Liberty Lobby's newsletter, "Liberty
Letter," which echoed Willis Carto's earlier anti-Semitic assaults
during the period when he controlled "American Mercury." According to
Deborah Lipstadt,
"In 1975 the lobby's _Liberty Letter_, whose circulation was more
than one-hundred thousand, was subsumed by the _Spotlight_, a
tabloid newspaper that regularly featured articles on Bible
analysis and the putative efforts of the Council on Foreign
Relations and the Trilateral Commission to dominate the nation. It
offered its readers tips on avoiding taxes and fighting the IRS.
The paper attacked Martin Luther King, Jr., as a Communist and
praised members of the Ku Klux Klan. It has memorialized Gordon
Kahl, the leader of the right-wing-extremist group Posse
Comitatus, who killed three [US] federal marshals and wounded a
number of others before he was killed in 1983 in a shoot-out with
federal agents." (Lipstadt, 150)
Lipstadt offers information which suggests that _Spotlight_'s
standards for journalistic integrity leave something to be desired:
"...In 1979 _Spotlight_'s lead article described how a global
elite planned to topple world governments. The paper claimed that
its reporter had attended an international conference in Austria
at which such plans were discussed. In truth, no one from the
_Spotlight_ attended this legitimate conference, and the reporter
who wrote the story admitted to falsifying it." (Lipstdt, 150)
Lipstadt goes on to explain that the primary focus of _Spotlight_'s
attention lies in exposing what it calls the "Jew-Zionist"
international bankers' conspiracy, aimed at Americans, and the
"Holocaust Hoax," which it maintains is an integral part of this vast
conspiracy. Holocaust denial "has also become a regular staple."
(Ibid., 150)
"The nature of _Spotlight_'s readership can be gauged to some
degree by the contents of its classified advertising section.
There are ads for poetry, laetrile prescriptions, dating services
for patriotic Christians, and devices for dramatically increasing
a car's gasoline mileage (these devices have supposedly been kept
off the market in a conspiracy against the American consumer). In
addition, its classified section regularly offers Nazi
paraphernalia, gun silencer parts, bullet-proof vests, clandestine
mail drops, and instructions for manufacturing false
identification." (Lipstadt, 151)
The masthead of the May 3, 1993 edition of The Spotlight lists Robert
Weems with the Southern Bureau. Weems is a former KKK leader and
founding chairman of the PAC (see Section 4.2).
The Canadian representation on the international bureau is Ron
Gostick. Gostick controls the "Freedom Council of Canada," along
with Patrick Walsh, both of whom are described as officers of the
anti-Semitic (and non-governmental) "Canadian Intelligence Service."
Walsh is said to be the "Canadian correspondent of the Liberty
Lobby," although I am uncertain as to what this refers to. (Anderson, 154)
[IHR] [Page 8]
3.5 IHR/JHR Editorial Advisory Staff & Writers
3.51 Andrew Arnold
No information available as of this date. "Andrew Arnold" was the
author of a recent (April 1993) Spotlight article attacking the Museum
of the Holocaust, in Washington, D.C. No biographical information was
provided with the article. (get pub/orgs/american/ihr/spotlight.0493
to see the entire article, as posted to UseNet by Dan Gannon.)
3.52 Dr. Robert Faurisson
Faurisson, a former French academic, contends that the Holocaust was
a hoax which benefits Israel in the form of reparation payments,
(Barrett, 162) a view commonly aired by those espousing Holocaust
denial. Seidel provides excellent background material:
In November 1978 Robert Faurisson wrote a letter on the
'problem' of the gas chambers. Its timing was important. Its
publication in Le Monde followed close on the heels of a
scandalous interview with Darquier de Pellepoix in the weekly
magazine, L'Express. Darquier was the Vichy Commissioner
General for Jewish Affairs. Darquier has been described as
the 'French Eichmann'--though even Eichmann, the architect of
the 'Final Solution', did not seek to deny its reality. ...
The Holocaust denial in France has become synonymous with the
Faurisson affair. What is more, it has become embroiled with
Noam Chomsky, the distinguished American linguist and staunch
opponent of the Vietnam war. (get pub/orgs/american/ihr/seidel.001
for Seidel's discussion of Chomsky's role - it is beyond the scope
of this FAQ. knm)
Faurisson's book is entitled Memoire en Defense--contre ceux qui
m'accusent de falsifier l'histoire. La question des chambres a
gaz (Testimony in Defence: Against those who Accuse me of
Falsifying History. The Question of the Gas Chambers). It is
Faurisson's answer to the accusation of falsifying history.
Testimony in Defence was published in Paris by Pierre Guillaume
for the left anarchist publishing house, La Vieille Taupe (The
Old Mole), in 1980. ...
Faurisson's denial of the Holocaust first appeared in the
satirical Canard Enchaine ["Le Canard Enchaine".knm] on 17 July
1974. It subsequently gained public attention in December 1978
when the influential Paris daily, Le Monde, published a letter from
Faurisson headed 'The problem of the "gas chambers" or "The rumour
of Auschwitz"'. He wrote with calculated cynicism: 'The
non-existence of the "gas chambers" is good news for poor humanity.
Good news like this should not be suppressed any longer.'
[IHR] [Page 9]
Robert Faurisson is not a historian. He belongs to a long line
of antisemitic academics and literary critics. Until recently,
he was a lecturer in twentieth-century French literature at the
University of Lyons II. He specialises in revealing 'the real
meaning' of texts. In Faurisson's view, texts have one
particular meaning, or none at all, an approach to stylistics he
calls 'the Ajax method'--because 'it scours as it cleans as it
shines'. (Seidel, 98-111. Seidel provides extensive information
regarding Faurisson's background, writing, and trial. Get
pub/orgs/american/ihr/seidel.001 to review his material.)
Faurisson has also pronounced the Diary of Anne Frank and the
Gerstein Report to be "fabrications and falsifications," and asserts
that the Holocaust "lie" is essentially "Zionist" in origin, and that
it has led to a "huge financial swindle of which the state of Israel
is the principal beneficiary." It was the widespread publication of
this sort of material that led the Dean of Lyons University to
suspend Faurisson's lectures.
Faurisson was one of the four members of the IHR advisory board who
testified at the trial of Ernst Zundel in Canada.
3.53 Ditlieb Felderer
Felderer, testifying at the trial of Ernst Zundel (Canada), explained
his conviction on a charge of "threatening or expressing contempt for
a group" for publishing a "Jewish Information" tract entitled "Please
accept this hair of gas victim," which he described as satire, by
stating that he was being "persecuted by Zionists." (Bilodeau)
According to the Toronto Star, "Felderer called his native Sweden a
'totalitarian state' and compared his trial to a 'Soviet show trial,'
and "...said Nazi concentration camps were more humane than modern
prisons." (Bilodeau)
3.54 William Lindsay
Lindsay was one of the four members of the IHR advisory board who
testified at the trial of Ernst Zundel in Canada. (Barrett, 162) Any
additional documented information which we can utilize to augment
this section will be appreciated.
3.55 Theodore O'Keefe
In an article published to coincide with the official opening of the
Washington, D.C. Holocaust Museum, one editor is briefly
described as follows:
"Theodore J. O'Keefe is an editor with the Institute for
Historical Review. Educated at Harvard University, he has studied
history and literature on three continents, and has published
numerous articles on historical and political subjects."
[IHR] [Page 10]
According to the 1990 Harvard Alumni Directory, Mr. O'Keefe failed
to graduate, so the reader will have to make his own decision about
whether or not he obtained his education there. Additional material would
be appreciated.
The above "bio" of Mr. O'Keefe would seem to be simply one
more example of how the IHR can be relied upon to mislead its
readers. (We have written to the IHR [April, 1993] and asked for more
informative information regarding Mr. O'Keefe's educational background
and areas of expertise, but no additional information has been provided.)
As of mid-1995, Mr. O'Keefe may have left the IHR.
3.56 Greg Raven
Mr. Raven, now the President and CEO of the Legion for the
Survival of Freedom, and therefor the IHR itself, offers insight into
his personal political beliefs in this message which he posted during
a GEnie debate into Holocaust denial:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Category 15, Topic 4
Message 33 Fri Mar 13, 1992
G.RAVEN at 03:02 EST
My only concern is in going after the facts. As such, I am
not interested in defending Adolf Hitler to my dying
breath. I will say, however, that he was a great man ...
certainly greater than Churchill and FDR put together, and
possibly the greatest leader of our century, if not longer.
This is not to say that he was perfect, but he about the
best thing that could have happened to Germany.
-------------------------------------------------------------
(Other examples of Mr. Raven's historical beliefs may be found
within the IHR archives here - his writing may be found in the
directory pub/people/r/raven.greg at ftp.almanac.bc.ca.)
3.57 Henri Roques
Roques...wrote a thesis titled 'Confessions of Kurt Gerstein: A
Comparative Study of Different Versions - A Critique.'..[he] claims
in his thesis to have 'scientifically' disproved that the gas
chambers at Auschwitz were used for mass murder. After submitting his
'revisionist' thesis to the University of Paris, where it was
rejected, he received his doctorate with distinction from the faculty
of letters of the University of Nantes.
A government investigation into the granting of his degree revealed a
number of irregularities:
First, Roques transferred from the University of Paris
to Nantes...three months after the deadline for
student enrollment had passed and without
authorization from the University rector. Second, he
did not have the necessary qualifications or title for
presenting a thesis in literature or history. Third,
the mandatory oral examination did not take place.
Fourth, he wrote the thesis in two months rather than
the two years required minimum registration period.
Finally, the signature of one of the examiners said to
have been present at the presentation of the thesis
was forged.
In 1986, the French Minister of Higher Education... invalidated
Roque's thesis citing the above irregularities....
...
Since 1986, Roques has established close ties to the IHR. He was a
guest speaker at their Eighth Annual Conference in 1987, and joined
their Editorial Advisory Committee in 1990. IHR now offers Roque's
discredited thesis for sale on its mail-order booklists." (Caplan,
43-44)
[IHR] [Page 11]
3.60 Udo Walendy
Udo Walendy was described in the Simon Wiesenthal Center infiltration
report as follows:
Udo Walendy is a notorious Holocaust denier who, for years,
has served on the advisory board of the Journal of Historical
Review, the official publication of the Institute for Historical
Review of Costa Mesa, California. (see entries for Mark Weber and
Willis Carto) ...Walendy expressed interest in ... offering his
assistance in the creation of a Nazi center in Germany.
3.65 Mark Weber
In response to my query, the IHR provided the following background
information concerning Mr. Weber:
Mark Weber was born in October 1951 in Portland, Oregon, where he was
also raised. He graduated from Jesuit High School there in 1969.
He studied at the University of Illinois (Chicago), the University of
Munich (Germany), and Portland State University, from where he
received a Batchelor's degree in history (with high honors). He then
did graduate work in history at Indiana University (Bloomington),
where he served as a history instructor and received a Master of Arts
degree in European history in 1977.
He has travelled widely in Europe and northwestern Africa. He lived
and worked for two and a half years in Germany (Bonn and Munich), and
for a time in Ghana (West Africa), where he taught English, history
and geography at an all-Black secondary school.
During the five years he lived in Washington, D.C. (1978-1983) he
carried out extensive research on the Holocaust issue at the National
Archives and the Library of Congress. Weber is the author of numerous
articles, reviews and essays dealing with the Holocaust story, and
his writings on other historical, political and social issues have
appeared in a variety of periodicals.
In March 1988 Weber testified for five days in Toronto District Court
as a recognized expert witness on the "Final Solution" and the
Holocaust issue.
He moved to Southern California at the beginning of 1991 to work for
the Institute for Historical Review. He is now editor of the 'Journal
of Historical Review,' published six times years <sic> by the IHR.
[IHR] [Page 12]
Mark Weber serves as Carto's pipeline to the German paleo-nazis, as was
conclusively demonstrated by the Simon Wiesenthal Center's recent
penetration of the German right. Here's what the infiltration report has
to say about Mr. Weber's Nazi connections:
Mark Weber works for the Institute for Historical Review (Costa
Mesa, California), one of several antisemitic organizations
founded by Willis A. Carto. The I.H.R. devotes most of its time
to spreading the bizarre notion that the Holocaust is wildly
exaggerated and that the gas chambers of Hitler's death camps are
a myth. In 1978, Weber was identified as the news editor of the
National Vanguard, the publication of William Pierce's neo-Nazi
group, the National Alliance.
Weber's name came up in several conversations with German
neo-Nazis, including Wolfgang Kempkens and Roy Godenau. As part
of Ron Furey's cover, a "cold" phone line at the Simon Wiesenthal
Center was attached to an answering machine informing the caller
that he/she had reached The Right Way. That phone number was
known only to the Center's senior research staff, Ron Furey, and
the neo-Nazis to whom it was given.
At 2:55pm on Friday, February 12, 1993, a man identifying himself
as Mark Weber called the number, requested a copy of The Right
Way, and left his P.O.B. address for mailing. The Center's
graphics department sent him a colorful subscription application
for the non-existent periodical, instead. This was apparently
enough to satisfy Mr. Weber's curiosity because he soon acceded
to Ron's request for a meeting.
That meeting took place on February 27, 1993 at the Cafe
Westminster in Westminster, California. It was filmed by a CBS
camera crew stationed in a van outside. Mr. Furey spoke to Mark
Weber at length about the "state of the movement" in Germany. To
help establish his credibility, he showed Weber several photos
picturing him and several German neo-Nazis together. Weber
correctly identified them all.
Weber soon felt comfortable enough to discuss the miserliness of
his current employer and to ask about the possibility of finding
work with The Right Way. He was also recommended by Reinhard
Kopps (see entry) to Richard Eaton for a separate project.
Kine...@cup.portal.com (Chana Braun) provided us with an
interesting glance into Mark Weber's intregity when she wrote
<59...@cup.portal.com> that "...I have excellent evidence that Mark Weber
colors the truth (to put it mildly) in regards to debates," and then
went on to detail a series of exchanges between a Holocaust denier
and others on another computer network.
[IHR] [Page 13]
Her article outlined the exchange dealing with Mark Weber's being
invited to join in the debate, and Mr. Weber's demand that she
(Chana Braun) not "bring in any outside help" in her debate with him.
(Mr. Weber, quite clearly, was not the least bit interested in an
open and comprehensive debate on a public computer network.)
(get pub/people/w/weber.mark/webers.feet for the full text of Chana's
article.)
As Chana explains:
There was absolutely no response to that reply
and nothing more was heard concerning the possibility of an open
discussion on that network until the February 1992 issue of the
IHR Newsletter. Here, then is the way that it was reported (and
keep in mind that Mark Weber is the editor of the Newsletter).
"In the January Newsletter I told about an IHR activist who had
received a challenge to publicly debate the Holocaust on [the
network] open forum bulletin board computer service - the largest
interactive computer network.
...After we promptly offered Mark Weber to represent that
Revisionist [sic] side, XXX suddenly flip-flopped. Deciding that
she is not a 'scholar' after all, but merely an 'amateur,' she
complained that it would be 'unfair' for her to have to face a
professional historian."
-----------
The plot in this story thickens. The one opposing the Holocaust
Deniers on that network wrote a letter to the editor of the
Newsletter (i.e. Mark Weber). Since the IHR is such a staunch
champion of Freedom of Speech, it seems strange that 3 months
later, that letter has still not received a reply much less been
printed in the IHR Newsletter.
[IHR] [Page 14]
Here, then, is the letter that the IHR Newsletter refuses to
print or even acknowledge:
February 27, 1992
Mark Weber, Editor
IHR Newsletter
Institute of Historical Review
1822 1/2 Newport Blvd.
Suite 191
Costa Mesa, CA 92627
Dear Mr.Weber:
I read with interest the article in your IHR Newsletter #85
February 1992 concerning [the network] and me. This is truly a
work of revisionism (e.g. distorting the facts to fit into your
personal view of the world) and, since those connected with the
IHR claim that they are eager to be taken seriously, it is
surprising that I was not contacted for comment before you went
to press.
Let's get the facts straight. Your "IHR activist" was posting
messages denying the Holocaust. I responded. He claimed that
no one was willing to debate the Holocaust. This, of course, is
absurd. I told him that he could name his sources and begin.
He posted a message about The Leuchter Report. I rebutted his
erroneous statements. (By the way, I don't believe he has read
the report. You might want to check on that before you
encourage his "activism" too much.) He then suddenly claimed on
the public board that he didn't have time to debate and he was
trying to get someone online from the IHR. I responded by
telling him that everyone was welcome. That is when he
contacted you and you agreed to come online.
What your "IHR activist" presented to me were a set of
ridiculous conditions. They included that the debate take place
only between you and me and that it be advertized on [the
network]. I was told to contact the "Arts Club Leader" to urge
her to agree. First, [the Arts Club Leader] doesn't have the
authority to grant such requests. Even if she did, as I told
your "activist," there are no precedents to such a closed debate
on Prodigy and that involving the Arts Club Leader might even be
counter-productive. My reasoning was this: "In fact, involving
the Arts Club leader might be counter-productive in that it
calls attention to this single debate and, if it ever begins,
our messages might undergo closer scrutiny by the censors. I
don't think either of us wants that." In fact, since you are
such a champion for "open debate," I was very surprised that you
wished for this one to be closed to others.
[IHR] [Page 15]
One of the amusing requirements for your participation in the
debate was an agreement by me that I would have no outside help
(whatever that means). This amusement I expressed to your
"activist" in the following quote: "I am an amateur (i.e. I
don't get paid by anyone to research the Holocaust, I am not
employed by anyone or any organization that has an interest in
the Holocaust and/or Holocaust Denial, etc.). You have
presented yourself in the same manner. Mr. Weber, I think you
would agree, is a professional. There is no prohibition against
him joining the discussion but I do think it odd that you ask
that I not ask for any outside help when you are bringing in a
professional."
If you notice, I claim amateur status because I don't get paid -
not because I am not a "scholar" or because it would be "unfair"
for me to have to debate a professional. Yet, you are
apparently so frightened of debating in a situation where you
cannot control all the factors that I heard nothing else from
you or your "activist." Please notice, I did not say I wouldn't
agree to your terms regarding outside help. I only said that I
found it "odd" that a professional would insist on such a term
before debating an amateur.
However, the greatest part of your article had to be the
sub-headline of "Another Anti-Revisionist Gets Cold Feet." I
assure you, Mr. Weber, that my feet are toasty warm. In fact,
I closed my message to your "activist" with the following: "I
guess the main question is: Do you and Mr. Weber desire to have
an open discussion or not? If so, post a message (either on
your own or one on behalf of Mr. Weber). That is the manner in
which all other discussions are initiated on [the network] and I
don't see any need to make an exception for this one."
I am still waiting for an answer to that question. What
temperature are your feet, Mr. Weber?
Sincerely,
<signature>
Mr. Weber, to our knowledge, has still not either printed the above
letter in the "open" IHR Newsletter or responded privately to Ms.
Braun. Given that more than a year has passed, it would seem that Mr.
Weber's feet are rather chilly indeed.
In an article published in the Express, a San Francisco Bay Area
weekly newspaper, Paul Rauber included the following comments about
Mark Weber:
[IHR] [Page 16]
The question [of whether the IHR denies the Holocaust] appears to
turn on IHR's Humpty-Dumpty word game with the word Holocaust.
According to Mark Weber, associate editor of the IHR's _Journal of
Historical Review_, "If by the `Holocaust' you mean the political
persecution of Jews, some scattered killings, if you mean a cruel
thing that happened, no one denies that. But if one says that the
`Holocaust' means the systematic extermination of six to eight
millions Jews in concentration camps, that's what we think there's
not evidence for." That is, IHR doesn't deny that the Holocaust
happened; they just deny that the word "Holocaust" means what
people customarily use it for. (Rauber, 'Sticks')
Weber's claim for the "independence" of the IHR is marked by the
same disingenuousness that characterizes that institutes
scholarship. In 1980 the business license for "The Noontide
Press/Institute for Historical Review" was filed by Elisabeth
Carto, wife of Liberty Lobby founder and treasurer Willis Carto.
Carto himself is listed on IHR's letterhead as "founder." IHR's
activities are regularly promoted in the Spotlight, as are the
racist and anti-Semitic books by Noontide Press, which are
advertised as part of the Lobby's "Liberty Library." (Rauber,
'Response')
According to the July, 1995, "IHR Update," Mr. Weber is now
the IHR Director. He is also listed in a July 1995 legal
document as the Secretary of the Legion for the Survival of
Freedom.
4.0 Political Organizations & Activities
4.1 National Youth Alliance
In his book "Brotherhood of Murder," Martinez mentions the National
Youth Alliance, which had its beginnings as "Youth for Wallace," and
was formed during the Wallace Presidential campaign of 1968. He
notes that Dr. William Pierce, whom he describes as a "Nazi," along
with several founders of George Lincoln Rockwell's National Socialist
White People's Party, joined the organization in the late Sixties.
The information he provides which relates to Carto's involvement in
this group is sketchy, to say the least:
The behind-the-scenes power in the NYA was Willis Carto, head of
the far right-wing, Washington, D.C.-based Liberty Lobby,
publisher of an anti-Zionist magazine called 'Spotlight' and also
publisher of a book that teaches terrorist urban warfare tactics.
Martinez continues with "After wresting control of the group from
Carto..." and no further references are to be found. (Martinez, 33)
The neo-Nazi group The National Alliance grew out of "The National
Youth Alliance," and is now controlled by Dr. William Pierce.
I would appreciate receiving any additional, documented, information
regarding Carto's involvement with this group, and invite your
contributions. ("Brotherhood of Murder" tells of Martinez'
involvement with The Order, the neo-nazi organization responsible for
the murder of Denver talk-show host Alen Berg and others.)
4.2 The Populist Action Committee (Richard Hatch, May, 1993)
In 1991, the Populist Action Committee (PAC) was "formally launched
by the Liberty Lobby, the Washington-based populist institution that
publishes _The Spotlight_." (Spotlight, 6-3-91, 1) The PAC is
intimately tied to the Spotlight, which is "a prime mover behind the
PAC." (Spotlight, 9-9-91, A-3) Unlike conventional political action
committees, the PAC will not give money directly to candidates for
office, but rather will "promote and publicize populist candidates,
urging patriots to make direct contributions to these candidates."
(Ibid)
The Kick-Off
The featured speaker at the kick-off meeting was "English populist"
John Tyndall of the British National Party. (Spotlight, 6-3-91, 1)
Tyndall is a British "former" National Socialist who has been quoted
as saying "The Jew is like a maggot feeding on a body in an advanced
state of decay." (Knight, 47) The selection of Tyndall as featured
speaker for the founding meeting is an indication of the political
direction of the Populist Action Committee. Tyndall was a founder of
the British National Party in 1960. (Hill, page??) The original BNP
was "pro-nazi and anti-semitic" and later merged with other far-right
groups to form the National Front in 1967. The NF promoted the
exclusion of non-whites from England. (Fielding, 67-68)
[IHR] [Page 18]
Tyndall resurrected the old BNP name when he founded a new party
after the collapse of the National Front. As noted in a "Spotlight"
interview, the BNP publishes _British Nationalist_ and _Spearhead_.
(Spotlight, 6-24-91, 16-17) The name "Spearhead" is a throwback to
the paramilitary organization in which Tyndall was active during the
original BNP days. Tyndall, who sported Nazi-style stormtrooper
attire in those days, was "gaoled" for his involvement in this
paramilitary group. (Hill, 61)
Promoting "Populist Candidates"
According to Liberty Lobby founder Willis Carto, the PAC "will be
promoting populist candidates." (Spotlight, 6-10-91, 11) The PAC does
this in part by publicizing the activities of such candidates in the
"Spotlight".
In one such case, the "Spotlight" directed readers to Joe Fields who
in 1992 was running for a California State legislature seat under the
banner of the American Independent Party. Fields is a notorious
far-right activist from Southern California who in 1987 "identified
himself to reporters as a member of the National Socialist American
Workers Party." (Los Angeles Times March 11, 1988, 30, section 1)
Art Jones was singled out for publicity in a special PAC "wrap"
addition to the Spotlight. (Spotlight, 3-9-92, A-2) The PAC
identified Jones as one of "seven viable candidates for public office
who are dedicated to the principles of populism...With your help,
there is a chance to elect candidates unbeholden to special interests
now plunging our country into ruin." Apparently, this was as far as
the PAC could go, since the special PAC "wrap" noted that the
"Populist Action Committee is a research and education entity not
registered with the Federal Election Committee and does not endorse
any candidate." (Spotlight, 3-9-92, A2) An earlier PAC report in the
"Spotlight" described Art Jones as a candidate who "puts America
first." "Spotlight" went on to note that "Jones has been connected to
far-right nationalist groups in the Chicago area by the local media."
(Spotlight, 2-24-92, 7)
In fact, local media reports had identified Jones as a leader in the
American Nazi Party. (Chicago Tribune 1-20-89, 3) Jones was active
in overt Nazi agitation as far back as 1979, when he was photographed
at a Chicago rally wearing the swastika armband. He later became
briefly involved with Civilian Military Assistance (CMA). CMA was
part of the "private" support network for Reagan's contra war in
Nicaragua. (Bellant, 120-122) In 1989, Jones was vice chairman of
the American Nazi Party. He achieved some notoriety when he was
photographed shaking hands with David Duke during Duke's run for
governor of Louisiana. Even Duke, attempting to shake off his own
past, called Jones a "Nazi kook." (Rose, 64)
[IHR] [Page 19]
Populist Personnel
The make-up of the advisory board of the PAC gives an idea of why
such "populist candidates" would be promoted by the PAC. The members
(and their descriptions) as of March 9, 1992 included:
Abe Lincoln Austin (Monetary Scientist)
Mike Blair (Investigative Reporter)
Ken Bohnsack (Founder, Sovereignty)
Robert Brock (Black Nationalist)
Howard Carson (Publishing Consultant)
Capt. G. Russel Evans (Historian)
Lt. Col. James (Bo) Gritz (US Army, ret.)
Dr. Martin A. Larson (Author)
Roger Lourie (President, Devin-Adair publishing)
Donald A. MacPherson (Constitutional Attorney)
Pauline Mackey (Treasurer, ret. David Duke for President)
Tom McIntyre (Former Chairman, Populist Party)
Eustace Mullins (Author)
John Nugent (Financial Consultant)
Lawrence Patterson (Editor & Publisher, Criminal Politics)
Col. L. Fletcher Prouty (US Air Force, ret.)
John Rakus (President, National Justice Foundation)
John Rarick (Former Congressman, D-Louisiana)
Vince Ryan (Editor, The Spotlight)
Sherman Skolnick (Chairman, Committee to Clean Up the Courts)
Maj. James H. Townsend, Ret. (Editor & Publisher, The National Educator)
James P. Tucker (President, National Media Services)
Tom Valentine (Host, Radio Free America)
Raymond E. Walk (President, Rayan Associates, Inc.)
Robert Weems (Founding Chairman, Populist Party)
Some biographies may be useful in illustrating the caliber of
advisors to the PAC...
Mike Blair ("Investigative reporter") is a long-time reporter for
Spotlight.
Robert Brock is a "black nationalist" who promotes the repatriation
of Black Americans and supports the so-called Pace Amendment to that
end. This amendment would cause untold upheaval as it calls for the
compulsory repatriation of most minorities in a period of one year.
The Pace Amendment would establish mechanisms by which one's race
would be judged by "a combination of blood type, ancestry, and
appearance." (Aho, 261-263)
Brock's unusual sense of humor was revealed in a surprise appearance
at Pete Peters Identity Christian camp in 1988. Brock entered the
meeting hall dressed in a KKK robe and revealed himself, at the
podium, no doubt to hearty guffaws. (Scriptures, Vol. V <1988>, 20)
Brock also organized a 1992 Holocaust revisionist "First
[IHR] [Page 20]
Amendment" conference in Southern California (Los Angeles Times
2-2-92, 1, part B) Institute for Historical Review regular Mark Weber
spoke, as did Joe Fields, now with the Populist Party, and his
Afrikaner-born wife Dee Fields. Joe proclaimed his belief in "the
purity of the races... and the desirability of segregation."
"Bo" Gritz was "featured at two Liberty Lobby conventions in 1987 and
1990." (Spotlight, 10-26-92, 5) Gritz is a regular on the Christian
Identity/Patriot/Liberty Lobby circuit. Rudy Proctor, who Gritz met
while attending one of Pastor Pete Peters' Christian Identity camps,
paid for tapes and press releases to be sent to radio stations as
part of Gritz Khun Sa publicity campaign. (Gritz, 485-486)
Gritz has also worked with another prominent Christian Identity
activist, Richard Flowers, of Boring, Oregon. Flowers heads up the
Christian Patriot Association (CPA), which publishes "The Patriot
Review" and sponsored a Gritz campaign trip to Oregon. Flowers
believes that "Blacks in general have a lower IQ than whites, and
most just want to come in and take over without establishing anything
themselves." (The Clackamas County Review, week ending June 3, 1992,
1-2)
The CPA distributes an array of literature and audio/video tapes
through their 76-page book Catalog. (CPA Book Publisher Book Catalog
1992-1993) There are whole sections devoted to "Christianity - Race -
Religion" and "The Jewish Issue." Audio tapes by old stand-bys of the
Posse Comitatus movement, such as James Wickstrom, are available.
(See Ridgeway, James. Blood in the Face. Thunder's Mouth Press,
1990, 133 for an example of a Wickstrom tape message)
Holocaust revisionists are well represented with tapes by David
Irving and books by Arthur Butz and Austin App. Gritz has had a
direct working relationship with the CPA through the National
Coalition to Reform Money and Taxes (NCRMT.) Gritz's Center for
Action and the CPA, as well as a number of other "patriot"
organizations are allied in this project to repeal income tax, return
to the use of gold and silver, etc... The January 1992 edition of
"The Petitioner" newsletter, which reports on the activities of the
coalition, approvingly interviewed Gritz and his campaign manager
Charlie Brown and reported on Gritz's participation in the coalition.
Gritz also participated in at least one Patterson Strategy conference
in October 1991 (See entry for Patterson, below) (Criminal Politics,
July 1991, 29)
Martin Larson's column appears practically every week in the
"Spotlight." Larson writes primarily on economic matters, but manages
to throw in enough other tidbits to make things interesting. For
example, he feels that "the powers that be are doing everything they
can to encourage breeding among welfare recipients." (Spotlight,
3-9-92, 18)
[IHR] [Page 21]
Roger Lourie's Devin-Adair company is a long-time source of
right-wing publications. In addition, "Devin-Adair and Regnery
published the greater part of those World War II revisionist studies
which faulted the Roosevelt administration for intervening against
the Axis powers." (Mintz, 48)
Tom McIntyre was chairman of the Populist Party when they nominated
"former" Klansman David Duke as their Presidential candidate in 1988.
(Gritz was nominated to run as Vice Presidential candidate--see above
for Gritz.) (Spotlight, 3-28-88, 4)
Eustace Mullins is the author of the virulently anti-Jewish book "The
Biological Jew" (Faith and Service Books, Stauton, VA, 1968).
Mullins, in this lengthy comparison of Jews with biological
parasites, wrote:
The Jew has always functioned best as a panderer, a pornographer,
a master of prostitution, an enemy of the prevailing sexual
standards and prohibitions of the gentile community....
We must remember that there is no Jewish crime per se, since the
existence of the Jewish parasite on the host is a crime against
nature, because its existence imperils the health and life of the
host...
This religious ceremony of drinking the blood of an innocent
gentile child is basic to the Jew's entire concept of his
existence as a parasite, living off the blood of the host...
The Jews do not want anyone to know what Nazism is. Nazism is
simply this--a proposal that the German people rid themselves of
the parasitic Jews. The gentile host dared to protest against the
continued presence of the parasite, and attempted to throw it off.
It was an ineffectual reaction, because it was emotional and
ill-informed...
Mullins' writings are a standby on the Klan/neo-Nazi circuit. A
recent Sons of Liberty book list included Mullins titles such as
"Jewish TV: Sick, Sick, Sick," "The Jewish War Against the Christian
World," and "Easter," which the catalog tells us give a "look at the
5,000 years of history in the ongoing war between the Satanic-Jewish
forces and their Babylonian religious system and the rest of
humanity." (Sons of Liberty Fall 1992 catalog, New Christian Crusade
Church)
Lawrence Patterson addressed the national committee of the Populist
Party in 1988 when they gathered for the David Duke nomination.
Patterson's "Criminal Politics" newsletter carries warnings of a
"Zionist Trilateral Party" conspiracy to merge the United States, the
USSR, and Europe. This conspiracy is "anti-American, anti-religious,
atheistic, anti-Christian, anti-Catholic, and anti- Protestant."
(Criminal, 07/91, 6) Patterson's newsletter, which went
[IHR] [Page 22]
for $15 an issue in 1991, listed Eustace Mullins (see above) as
contributing editor. Eric Butler and Ivor Benson were listed as
correspondents. Butler has been a long time leader of the Australian
League of Rights and is "considered a mentor by active racists and
anti-semites throughout the English-speaking world." (Knight, 23)
Similarly, Benson -- Information Advisor to the former Rhodesian
government -- was a staunch supporter of apartheid in South Africa.
(Ibid, 153)
Pauline Mackey is another veteran of the David Duke campaign.
Col. L. Fletcher Prouty has maintained a strong relationship with
the Liberty Lobby for years. During the lengthy legal battles
surrounding the Mermelstein lawsuits against the Liberty Lobby and
Willis A. Carto, Prouty and fellow PAC advisory board member Lt.
Col. James "Bo" Gritz were "prepared to testify as character
witnesses on behalf of Liberty Lobby founder Willis A. Carto."
(Spotlight, 10-7-91, 12)
Prouty has been a guest on the Liberty Lobby sponsored Radio Free
America program dozens of times. (I understand that the Pacifica
Radio folks also broadcasts a syndicated "Radio Free America"
program, which should not be confused with this one.) Prouty was a
featured speaker at the 35th Liberty Lobby Board of Policy
convention were he said "If anybody really wants to know what's
going on in the world today, he should be reading 'Spotlight'" and
explained that "one of the first enemies we have in this country is
usury". (Spotlight, 10-8-90, 14)
John Rarick has been "a willing enough ally of the Liberty Lobby" for
years. (Mintz, 155) Rarick was a prominent activist in the
segregationist white Citizens Councils.
Robert Weems was the founding chairman of the Populist Party. Weems
was a "voting member of party's national executive committee" in
1988, when the party nominated David Duke. (Spotlight, 3-28-88, 4)
Also the founding national chairman of the PAC, Weems was a
Mississippi KKK leader. (Ridgeway, 131)
Weems was scheduled to speak in July 1991 at the "First National
Identity-Christian Conference in Reidsville, North Carolina. His
topic was "Internationalism and How it Relates to Race, Nation, and
Faith." Other speakers at the conference included Eustace Mullins and
Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz. The promotional materials for this
conference included advertisements for books such as "Our Nordic
Race," "White Race--True People of Israel," and "God's Call to Race."
(Conference mailing, June 1991)
4.3 The Populist Party
[Work in progress]
[IHR] [Page 23]
5.0 IHR Investigates Conference Attendees
The nature of the IHR can clearly be seen from the application it used
for its 10th. "International Revisionist Conference", which required
"Those who have not been an attendee at a previous IHR conference" to
provide the names of the conference speakers, if any, "or others you
may know will be attending" as personal references. If none of the
speakers would vouch for you, you were required to provide "two personal
references with daytime phone numbers" to permit background
investigation before permitting those wishing to attend to do so.
Has anyone here ever been to a convention of any scientific, medical,
historical or academic organization and been required to have someone
"vouch" for you before you could attend? Clearly the IHR's interest
in "open debate" isn't genuine, given their obvious reluctance to
permit it at their own conventions! (get
pub/orgs/american/ihr/ihr.applicant)
6.0 Epilog
The following extract was published anonymously to alt.revisionism
in February, 1994. It indicates that Willis Carto has been purged
from the IHR - the Coalition for Human Dignity's Research
Department (Portland, Oregon) offered additional information in
its March 1, 1994 Dignity Report. (Get
pub/people/c/carto.willis/ carto.005 for the article.)
From _The Journal of Historical Review_, Nov/Dec 1993, pg 25:
WILLIS CARTO AND THE IHR
Willis Carto is perhaps best known as the founder and director
of Liberty Lobby, an organization based in Washington, DC that
publishes a weekly tabloid paper, The Spotlight. Carto has also
been affiliated with the Institute for Historical Review since
its founding in 1978. As those who have attended recent IHR
conferences know, the IHR staff acknowledges the many hours of
volunteer help that he and his wife Elisabeth have contributed
over the years.
Neither, however, contributed financially to the IHR. Neither
was involved in the IHR's day to day operations, nor was either
ever a paid employee. Willis Carto did, however, occasionally
act as an "agent" for the Institute and its non-profit corporate
parent, the "Legion for the Survival of Freedom, Inc."
During the past several months, facts have come to light to
persuade the IHR senior staff that Carto's relationship with the
IHR had become a liability. After much careful deliberation,
and on advice of legal counsel, the Institute resolved to
terminate this relationship. Accordingly, the corporate Board
of Directors, meeting on September 25, voted unanimously to end
its relationship with the Cartos. This decision has the full
support of the IHR staff, including Director Tom Marcellus* and
editors Mark Weber, Theodore O'Keefe and Greg Raven. (Note:
it is my understanding that Mr. Marcellus has left the IHR to
pursue other interests. KNM, April 5, 1995)
* Mr. Marcellus has since left the IHR to pursue other interests,
including the Church of Scientology.
[IHR] [Page 24]
Tom Martinez provides us with a fitting epilog to this document in
one of the final chapters of "Brotherhood of Murder":
"[A] ... self-depreciating logic is displayed when the Neo-Nazis
and their allies claim that the Holocaust never occurred. In order
to do that, they have to deny that their hero Hitler, with whose
anti-Semitism they are in agreement, ever intended to harm the
Jews. Instead, the Jews wanted to harm Hitler and bring the entire
sacred Aryan supremacy movement into disrepute, which they did -
with diabolical cleverness - by fabricating the Holocaust. Just as
with Cutler's* analysis of The Order's failure, in denying the
Holocaust, the Aryan racists are admitting they aren't capable of
carrying out their own aims. Each time they appear to have tried
to do so - as with the Jews in Germany or The Order - they are
actually under the control of their enemy. In this way, claims of
Aryan superiority become riddled with admissions of Aryan
inferiority, which admissions - because they are psychologically
insupportable to those making them - are readily denied through
the creation of a fantasy world..." (Martinez, 206)
* Eldon "Bud" Cutler, who succeeded Gary Yarbrough as security chief
for the Aryan Nations in 1985
7.0 Reference Section
An extensive Holocaust-related bibliography is available from our
archives, at http://www.nizkor.eye.net/.
In the future, as we locate sources of material specific to the IHR
and Willis Carto, we will add them to this section.
We have published several Holocaust-related FAQ's previous to this
one, and all are available via anonymous ftp (see the beginning of
this document for specifics). These research guides also provide
specific bibliographic citations.
The following are available now:
Archive Name Subject File Name
------------ ------- ----------
auschwitz Auschwitz auschwitz.faq1
auschwitz Auschwitz auschwitz.faq2
leuchter Leuchter Report leuchter.faq1
leuchter Leuchter Report leuchter.faq2
reinhard Operation Reinhard reinhard.faq1
reinhard Operation Reinhard reinhard.faq2
[IHR] [Page 25]
The Fascism and Holocaust archives are also available via
anonymous ftp from: ftp.almanac.bc.ca, in the directory /pub,
and via World Wide Web (http://www.almanac.bc.ca).
7.1 Suggesting Reading
ADL Special Report. Embattled Bigots: A Split in the Ranks of
the Holocaust Denial Movement. Anti-Defamation League, 1994.
Diamond, Sara. Spiritual Warfare: The Politics of the Christian Right.
Montreal, PQ, and New York: Black Rose Books, 1990
George, John and Laird Wilcox. Nazis, Communists, Klansmen and Others on the
Fringe. New York: Promotheus, 1992
"It's Not Populism," and "When Hate Groups Come to Town: A Handbook
of Effective Community Response." Center for Democratic Renewal,
P.O. Box 50469, Atlanta, Georgia, USA 30302-0469.
Mintz, Frank P. The Liberty Lobby and the American Right: Race,
Conspiracy, and Culture. Westport, CT: Greenwood Press, 1985
Simonds, C.H. "Liberty Lobby - Willis Carto and his Fronts,"
National Review, September 10, 1971. (Request holocaust/ihr
carto.002 for complete text.)
7.2 Glossary
NCLC: The National Caucus of Labor Committees, organized by followers
of Lyndon LaRouche. For a comprehensive look at LaRouche and the
NCLC, see King.
7.3 Works Cited
Aho, James. The Politics of Righteousness: Idaho Christian Patriotism.
Seattle: University of Washington Press, 1990
Anderson, Scott and John Lee Anderson. Inside the League. New York:
Dodd, Mead and Company, 1986
Caplan, Marc, ed. Hitler's Apologists: The Anti-Semitic Propaganda
of Holocaust "Revisionism". Anti-Defamation League, 1993
Barrett, Stanley R. Is God a Racist? Toronto: University of
Toronto Press, 1987. ISBN 0802066739
Bellant, Russ. Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party.
Boston: South End Press, 1991
Bilodeau, Paul. "The Zundel Trial," Toronto Star: March 4, 1988
CDC. "Fact Sheet: Holocaust Denial," Coalition for Human Dignity,
P.O. Box 40344, Portland, Oregon 97240.
[IHR] [Page 26]
Criminal Politics, Patterson Strategy Organization, P.O. Box 37812,
Cincinnati, Ohio 45222
Diamond, Sara. 'The Right's Grass Roots.' "Z" March 1992: 19+
Fielding, Nigel. The National Front. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1981
Gritz, James. Called to Serve. Sandy Valley, Nevada: Lazarus Publishing
Company, 1991
Hill, Ray, with Andrew Bell. The Other Face of Terror. Grafton Books,
1988 **
King, Dennis. Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism. New York:
Doubleday, 1989
Knight, Derrick. Beyond the Pale: The Christian Political Fringe.
Lanashire: Caraf Publications, 1982
Work cited
Lipstadt, Deborah E. Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on
Truth and Memory. New York: The Free Press (A division of Macmillan,
Inc.), 1993.
Martinez, Thomas, with John Guinther. Brotherhood of Murder. New
York: McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1988. ISBN 0070406995
Mintz, Frank P. The Liberty Lobby and the American Right. Westport,
Connecticut: Greenwood Press, 1985
Rauber, Paul. 'Response to letter by Mark Weber.' "The Express"
January 17, 1992: 4. [PS-Express Publishing Company, P.O. Box 3198,
Berkeley, California] (Request ihr express.011792 for the entire
Weber letter and Rauber's response, transcribed for release to
UseNet with permission)
Rauber, Paul. 'Sticks and Stones' column, "The Express"
January 10, 1992 (Request ihr express.011092 for the complete
article, transcribed for release to UseNet with permission)
Ridgeway, James. Blood in the Face. Thunder's Mouth Press, 1990
Rose, Douglas, ed. The Emergence of David Duke and the Politics of Race.
Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1992
Scriptures for America, P.O. Box 766, LaPorte, Colorado, 80535.
Seidel, Gill. The Holocaust Denial. London: Beyond the Pale
Collective, 1986
[IHR] [Page 27]
Spotlight, The. According to the masthead on the May 17, 1993
edition, The Spotlight is published weekly except for two issues
combined into one at the beginning of the year by Cordite Fidelity,
Inc. at 300 Independence Ave. SE, Washington, D.C. 20003. *
* However, the Spotlight has referred to Liberty Lobby as the
publisher of the Spotlight-see Section 4.2, first paragraph. Most
likely Cordite Fidelity is some sort of holding company.
** The reference to the Nazi-style attire of Tyndall in the Hill book
comes from the caption of an un-numbered page which is one of the
photographs ("plates" I would call them) in the center of the book
between pages 160 and 161. Page 61 (sixty-one) describes the
Spearhead paramilitary group and its breakup by police.
rgonnet
Diane Richardson wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 22:59:08 -0400, rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman)
> wrote:
Once again the demondiane? You are asserting falsely that Kim ever gave messages
to the OSA gunmen.
Re-read her "The Beast": her answer is in.
Roger
>
>
> >In article <34318779...@snews.zippo.com>, ref...@bway.net wrote:
> >
> >> >> Attached is an e-mail message from Arnie Lerma to Kim Baker who passed
> >> >> it on to the Scientologists in one of her now famous flip flops.
> >> >
> >> >This is about the 4th or 5th time you, or some other jerk, has posted
> >> >this here. Nobody has yet answered my question: How did you come
> >> >into possession of this private e-mail message (assuming that it is
> >> >authentic, which it might not be)?
> >>
> >> Why don't you ask Kim Baker, Ron?
> >
> >Because she can't answer the question that I'm asking, which is ...
> >how did this correspondence come into the possession of the person
> >who posted it here?
>
> *Can't* she answer the question or *won't* she answer the question?
>
> It was my understanding that Kim Baker provided her OSA "friends" with
> copies (or printouts) of her computer files. I don't remember if it
> was Kim Baker herself who admitted this or if it was reported through
> a third party. Do you remember?
You remember badly. Once again, your "understanding" is wrong.Too bad!
>
>
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
Joe Harrington
As I recall, Kim had previously acknowledged that she did give some
copies of of e-mail to a local OSA staff member, during the period when
she was being pressured about her involvement with FactNet.
Arnie has forgiven her, Wollersheim has forgiven her, as have I and
several others.
Joe
wgert
til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote:
>In <01bcce77$9a054d00$5d41...@newsco1.dgsys.com>, "bagheera"
><bagh...@dgsys.com> wrote:
>> Don't worry about it Ron, and forget about Diane's needling comments.
>>The important thing to note here is that although the cult is trying to DA
>>Mr. Lerma with weird bullshit about, oh no!!! a Lerma/Carto association,
>>the bottom line is that the cult is trying to litigate Carto into the
>>ground, and he's fighting them tooth and nail. Carto is fighting the good
>>fight, and whether or not there is some stigma attached to Carto that the
>>cult believes could negatively affect them both, NOTHING in the UNIVERSE
>>compares to the stigma and fascist history of the CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY. And
>>if the cult got the e-mail illegally or not, matters not. Kim Baker has
>>had her share of unbelieveable harrassment and hell from what I've read on
>>this NG. They probably got it when her defenses were down. Oh, and Diane
>>Richardson is just being catty and mean. Ignore her.
>I suggest you read this. From the beginning to the end. And so should every
>carto supporter. And every scientologist who believes that the holocaust never
>happened. (Btw, is there any scientologist who distances himself from Tom
>Marcellus?)
>Archive-name: holocaust/ihr
>Last-modified: 1996/07/08
>This FAQ may be cited as:
> IHR: A Layman's Guide to Willis Carto
> & The Institute for Historical Review (Part 01)
> "If antisemitism has a core, factual meaning, it was demonstrated
> here." Thus did Judge Bork, in 1984, dismiss the suit brought by
> Willis Carto's Liberty Lobby against 'The Wall Street Journal' for
> having called it "anti-Semitic."
> 2.1 Willis Carto
Arnie Lerma has stated that he has the full support of Willis Carto
and the patriot movement in the United States.
He has never explained just what this means, what sort of support this
is and what it is that Carto (and the patriots) have agreed to do. I
think that they have been paying Arnie. This is just a guess.
Someone definitely is. Of that I have no doubts.
Lerma has never come out and defended his partnership with Carto. It
is obvious that Carto has included Scientology on a par with his
anti-semitism, based on their vile rag of a newspaper, Spotlight.
Since Lerma is obviously too embarrassed to talk about his connection
with Carto, perhaps Bagheera (Virginia) will.
bagheera
Well gee, WhyBlurt:
You seem to have a lot of knowledge about Carto. Much more than
my brain can contain. Perhaps you've been consulting with your buddy
Marcellus over at IHR? After all, you're both in the same Satanic Group
right? $cientology, right? You both believe that "The man on the cross,
there was no Christ." right? Which would mean that you and Marcellus
believe in and practice Devil Worship, and your religion is Satanism which
is not at all compatible with Christianity, now, is it? Oh, and why is it
you people are so determined to take over "The Spotlight" if you all hate
it soooooooooo much? Strange...... It would appear that you are not being
honest with us now, WhyBlurt. Stop beating around the bush and making
weird accusations and tell us the truth. You want to turn "The Spotlight"
into a Devil-Worshipping rag like "Freedom" don't you? I wish you would
just say what you mean.
Bagheera
--
"Any stigma will do to beat a dogma."
-Philip Guedalla-
wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote in article
<620407$nma$1...@usenet87.supernews.com>...
wgert
Joe Harrington <joe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Joe
How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full support
of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United States?
This is significant in light of Arnie's unwarranted attack on Senator
D'Amato, who is hated by the Germans for having helped to bring to
light the situation with the Swiss banks holding money belonging to
Jews who were robbed of it by the NAZIs. It is no coincidence that
Lerma now attacks Senator D'Amato and fits totally with his
association with Carto causes.
Tilman Hausherr
>How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full support
>of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United States?
How do you feel that scientologist Tom Marcellus had the full support of
Carto for over a decade?
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site with "Xenu's Link Sleuth":
http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Andy Collier
Subject: Re: LERMA/CARTO ASSOCIATION
From: wg...@loop.com (wgert)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full
> support of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United
> States?
That was 2 YEARS ago - an I doubt it has any relevancy now.
> This is significant in light of Arnie's unwarranted attack
> on Senator D'Amato,
Apparently you didn't even bother to read the Lerma posting - he did not
attack the Senator - he attacked Scientology - by posting a sworn
affadavit from a former prominent Scientologist. He also pointed out the
criminal past of the Cos and its current leadership. And he posted
verifiable information (rather than the nameless anectodtes and
allegations you $cn types usually use)
> who is hated by the Germans for having
> helped to bring to light the situation with the Swiss banks
> holding money belonging to Jews who were robbed of it by the NAZIs.
Unsubstantiated. As I recall, D'Amato had nothing to do with the Swiss
bank account mess - and the current Germans had nothing to do with it
either... It was the Swiss bankers who were holding the monies and
collecting the interest payments all these years. And it was the PRESS
that brought this to light - not Senator D'Amato. And why is it you
$cn types always drag out Nazis and Jews whenever Germany is mentioned?
Does it push your buttons? The war was finished over 50 years ago - and
soon all who were directly involved on either side will be gone - most
are dead already. What is it with you gert? If you cant find a fact,
you manufacture them? Have you lost that much touch with reality?
> It is no coincidence that Lerma now attacks Senator D'Amato and
> fits totally with his association with Carto causes.
It is no coincidence that Lermas letter to D'Amato was quite effective,
so you and OSA have to try desperate measures to counteract it. Problem
is the the CoS still hasnt learned that tarring the messenger dosn't tar
the message - especially with people who look beyond the surface of
things using their critical reasoning faculties. Ahh - but maybe thats
why Scn is the way it is - you give up rationality in trade for the
"security" of the tech. Or at the highest levels, you are in on the scam
and want to keep the cash flowing so you go along with all kinds of
thuggery and slander. I pity you - either you are a deluded fool, or an
extremely ineffective con man.
A.C.
Joe Harrington
wgert wrote:
>
> Joe Harrington <joe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full support
> of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United States?
I'm very much aware of Arnie's past meetings with Carto as were many
others. And this initially was a matter of great concern, considering
the tone of some of the articles that appear in Spotlight, several
issues which I have reviewed. Arnie was agressively scrutinized and I
talked with him at length about these meetings, as have others. Carto
was very helpful in providing details about Scientology's and Tom
Marcellus' involvement with the IHR and Spotlight, and the subsequent
takeover of the IHR database, immediately prior to the secret IRS ruling
on Scientology's tax-exempt status. I have absolutely no reason to
believe that Arnie is some kind of "anti-semite" and quite frankly that
allegation has no sting left.
More germane is Tom Marcellus' role as the Director of the IHR, a
holocaust denier, a major contributor to the IAS, and a Scientologist in
"good standing"? Would you care to comment on that?
> This is significant in light of Arnie's unwarranted attack on Senator
> D'Amato, who is hated by the Germans for having helped to bring to
> light the situation with the Swiss banks holding money belonging to
> Jews who were robbed of it by the NAZIs. It is no coincidence that
> Lerma now attacks Senator D'Amato and fits totally with his
> association with Carto causes.
Rather insigificant, considering D'Amato has a long history as a shady
career politician who is a cunning demagogue in a Senatorial district
with a rather large elderly Jewish constituency. And this is primarily
the reason that OSA has duped him to promote their agenda in Germany.
The Secretary of State had the foresight to see OSA's real agenda in the
Germany fiasco.
Joe
Joe Harrington
wgert wrote:
> Arnie Lerma has stated that he has the full support of Willis Carto
> and the patriot movement in the United States.
>
> He has never explained just what this means, what sort of support this
> is and what it is that Carto (and the patriots) have agreed to do. I
> think that they have been paying Arnie. This is just a guess.
> Someone definitely is. Of that I have no doubts.
As I recall, Carto provided some good info on Tom Marcellus and the
other Scientologists that were on staff at Spotlight, as well as some
data on the private investigation agency that the OSA Washington DC
office was operating in Maryland, along with some info on the IRS
meetings prior to to the backroom deal on the tax-exempt ruling.
I think thats pretty good "support" and perhaps the "patriots" are
covertly sending Arnie rolls of stamps for his mass mailings?
You certainly have a proclivity for conspiracy theories and you are a
natural for the enemy creators at OSA...
Joe
Snorri
wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote in article
<621skb$b3l$1...@usenet87.supernews.com>...
>
> How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full support
> of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United States?
>
Maybe he made an assertion to that effect, maybe he didn't. First I don't
like your connecting of Willis Carto to the Patriot movement in the U.S.
The Patriot movement is NOT Nazi oriented as you make it sound. Willis
Carto indeed is a dispicable hate monger who lost all sense of reality.
The Patriot movement on the other hand has nothing in common with the ideas
propagated by people of his kind, to the contrary the PM stands for Liberty
and the Constitution, Willis Carto certainly does not.
I have taken a look at your home page and in all honesty what you are
putting up there is utterly insane. I have been argueing for the
Constitutional right of the CoS and it's members to execise their rights as
a religion, as many in the Patriot movement would do. Not because of full
agreement with everything the CoS does or say's but because of their right
to exist.
When you are desparately and pathetically are trying to connect it's
critics to the KKK, as you did in the opening picture, you are doing a very
bad service to your religion. It may be that Lerma had some contacts to
Willis Carto but that does not make hime a Nazi by definition. Lerma was
wrong in the Copyrights thing and indeed takes a stand which is contrary to
the Constitution.
The fact that Lerma does take that position is contrary to the essence of
the Patriot Movement which is strongly Constitutionalist, so I find his
assertion, if it is indeed his, somewhat contradictory but that is nothing
compared to the BS you are spreading.
> This is significant in light of Arnie's unwarranted attack on Senator
> D'Amato, who is hated by the Germans for having helped to bring to
> light the situation with the Swiss banks holding money belonging to
> Jews who were robbed of it by the NAZIs. It is no coincidence that
> Lerma now attacks Senator D'Amato and fits totally with his
> association with Carto causes.
>
Again I don't agree with Lerma's attacks on D'Amato but your explanation of
the reason's why is plain idiotic. Doing so in order to protect the CoS
against it's critics is more than only stupid, what you are doing is
playing in the hands of those who are spreading false propaganda about the
CoS all you are doing is confirming the allegations made against the
Church.
Where we are talking about is to bring the conflict into perspective and to
garantee that any religious organization can exercise their Constitutional
rights. What I'm saying is that we should arrive at meaningful discussions
without resorting to False Propaganda and fanatism. If you feel it right
to DA Lerma and other critics with utterly nonsencial allegations you
should not complain about being the target of similar tactics. There is no
difference between people like yourself those critics you complain about,
both are polarizing the conflict and doing more harm than good to either
side. Let's try to elevate the discussions in this newsgroup to a
meaningful level.
--
=================================
Never have yourself beaten into submission
William Barwell
In article <01bcda05$dcec5a20$0396f1c3@snorri>,
Snorri <sno...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
>
>
>wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote in article
><621skb$b3l$1...@usenet87.supernews.com>...
>>
>> How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full support
>> of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United States?
>>
>Maybe he made an assertion to that effect, maybe he didn't. First I don't
>like your connecting of Willis Carto to the Patriot movement in the U.S.
>The Patriot movement is NOT Nazi oriented as you make it sound. Willis
Yeah, boy. Sorry, shithead, there is no "patriot" movement, just
the usual right winged fools. One can see the usual tripe
at the gun shows here, the book sellers pushing crap orientated towrds the
not-exactly-patriots including the racist and inti-semitic book "The
Turner Diaries" sold at every guns show.
The same book McVeigh used as a blue print for the bommbing of the federal
building in Oklahoma city.
About once a month as steady as clock work, the FBI seems to
bust another group of bomb building non-patriot scum planning
bombings or committing armed robberies to support their not-patriot
movement.
William Barwell
In article <621skb$b3l$1...@usenet87.supernews.com>, wgert <wg...@loop.com> wrote:
>Joe Harrington <joe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>How do you feel about Lerma's assertion that he has the full support
>of Willis Carto and the Patriot movement in the United States?
How do you feel about the fact that Tom Marcellus, a high ranking
Scientologist ran IRH, one of the premiere crackpot antisemitic
outfits for years?
Yes, Scientology and holocaust revisionism. What a pair.
And you never did answer my earlier questions. What do
you think about the fact that the Scientology web sites push notorious
known lies?
Such as at the end of the war, Hubbard was almost blind, crippled,
and abandoned by his family, when it was Hubbard who abandoned his
family to, and far from crippled and certainly not blind, drove
immediately after leaving the Navy down to Jack Parson ramsackle old
mansion to take up sex magic with Parsons and his crew of occultists?
Why does Scientology push this known lie in "What is Scientology?"?
Who can trust an organization that still peddles these lies to
the world?
How many more lies on the Scientology web site?
William Barwell
In article <01bcddec$bba36800$2896f1c3@snorri>,
Snorri <sno...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
>
>
>William Barwell <wbar...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> wrote in article
><62ajf7$hq5$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>...
>>
>> Yeah, boy. Sorry, shithead, there is no "patriot" movement, just
>> the usual right winged fools. One can see the usual tripe
>> at the gun shows here, the book sellers pushing crap orientated towrds
>the
>> not-exactly-patriots including the racist and inti-semitic book "The
>> Turner Diaries" sold at every guns show.
>> The same book McVeigh used as a blue print for the bommbing of the
>federal
>> building in Oklahoma city.
>>
>BS. Generalization is the name of the game, the New World Order Growd
>come's up with some propaganda story and you will parrot it arround.
No generalizations here. Racist bastard KKKooks are a dime adozen here in
Texas. All big 'patriots' and men 'o god. Racist freaks and wife beaters
all too often.
We see this kind taking to bombings and robberies to buy guns and weapons.
Hardly w month goes by now ithout teh FBI busting a bunch of these clowns
bombing IRS offices, or other government agencies or robbing banks.
No patriots here. Their lessor brethern sit at home and bitch right wing
malarkey, they are no patriots either. Flakes, loser, reactionary far
right losers. Racists, xenophobes, ignorami, fools.
I have been around this sort for all my life and despise them all.
I am so tired of these low grade wastes of protoplasm.
David Duke voters and nigger hating racist losers dribbling
tobacco juice down their chins. The men are even worse.
Texas and Lousiana is full of bitter evil old white trash spewing far
right balderdash and daring to call it 'patriotism'.
>
>The Patriot Movement stands for the Constitution which you are trying to
>undermine
The non-patriots keep voting for assholes that do far more to undermine
teh constitution than any other force in America.
Reagan, Bush, Nixon, scum of the earth who no law was to sacred to go
unbroken.
Who have lied and tricked the Americamn people for decades now.
What would a bizaare loser like you know about anything worth relating
anyway?
David Stockman "The Triumph Of Politics" Harper & Row 1986
Page 68-69
"This can't be!" I declaimed, while storming around my office like
some dervish.
So I went back to the to the drawing board. This time I discovered
the illusionary revenue windfalls owing to double-digit inflation.
When I substituted a rapid decline in infaltion, the Democrats' spending
promises resulted in plenty of red ink. But there was no $60 billion
budget surplus at the end of teh supply-side rainbow, either.
Instead, I discovered that to balance the budget we would need huge
spending cuts too - More than $100 billion a year. The fabled revenue
feedback of the Laffer curve had thus slid into the grave of fiscal
mythology forty days after the supply-side banner had been hoisted up
at the GOP convention.
these dramatic changes in my comprehension of budget estimation
and the true fiscal math of the supply-side program occured almost over
night. That should have been cause for second thoughts and reassessment of
the whole proposition.
But it didn't happen that way.
At the time the prospect of needing well over $100 billion in domestic
cuts to keep the Republican budget in equilibrium appeared to be more
as an opportunity than a roadblock. Once Reagan got an electoral
mandate for Kemp-Roth and 10-5-3, then we would have the Second Republic's
craven politicians pinned to the wall. They would have to dismantle
it's bloated, wasteful, and unjust spending enterprises - or risk
national ruin. The idea of a real fiscal revolution, a frontal attack
on the welfare state, was beginning to seem more and more plausible.
Now the fiscal elemenet had been linked into the chain reaction, too.
Page 399
Table 3
Rosy Scenario and Money GNP
The $2 trillion Error
(Money GNP in billions)
Year Rosy Scenario Actual Economy Error
1982 $3,192 $3,054 $138
1983 3,598 3,229 369
1984 4,000 3,581 419
1985 4,398 3,839 559
1986 4,812 4,152 660
total $20,000 $17,855 $2,145
1982-86
Note: Actual GNP based on 1985 mid-session review.