Cult asked for it
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
available on the web yet.
Well done, cult.
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate.
-------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
Lermanet.com
>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>available on the web yet.
>
>Well done, cult.
congratulations,
and a great example of rule #1 dealing with Scientology's quest for
silence:
Turn every (stupid) thing they do to advantage
Spacetraveler
"Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote in message
news:a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
> There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
> a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> available on the web yet.
>
> Well done, cult.
>
> Best wishes,
> Andreas Heldal-Lund
You may have some time now to address my issue. I understood you have been
busy up there in Norway, with the police and all that. I made just now 2
reposts about the fair game issue and your SP/PTS pack.
Spacetraveler
Lermanet.com
well, while you are waiting for andreas to get back to you, perhaps
you can address this issue... but I doubt it, and be sure to check all
the sources..
Duplicity and Understanding - The Scientology CREED
Update to:
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ldidx.htm
February, 2005 - Duplicity and understanding
Which Creed is in use by Scientologists: the one published by the
Church, which proclaims that no agency less than God has the power to
set aside the inalienable right of all men
"to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own
opinions and to counter or utter the write upon the opinions of
others."
or Hubbard's "Battle Tactics"?
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1969-02-16-battle-tactics.html
"The prize is 'public opinion' where press is concerned. The only
safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of
hate against the enemy, this means standard wartime propaganda is what
one is doing, complete with atrocity, war crimes trials, the lot. Know
the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. That's the enemy.
What they love. That's you."
Perhaps both. How people who pay to attain god-like powers conduct
"standard wartime propaganda" can be seen in the outcome of
Scientologists response to real-life situations, such as the
following:
Exchange of letters between the SPOTLIGHT and the Church of
Scientology
concerning an offer to respond to a critical article before
publication
* THE SPOTLIGHT letter of October 29, 1993 to Mr. David Miscavage,
Church of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#931029
o Dear Mr. Miscavage: Historically this newspaper, our
publisher LIBERTY LOBBY and our Radio Free America talk show have
always had what we have believed to be a friendly relationship with
your organization, although very one-sided. We have repeatedly
extended courtesies to your agents and spokesmen in regard to vour
anti-phsychiatric drug projects, in spite of the fact your
organization has never reciprocated in any way. We are certain your
organization has attracted many members through the free and favorable
publicity we have extended through our media. Enclosed is a galley
proof of an article we plan to run in The SPOTLIGHT next week. ...
enclosures:
1. While one so-called cult -the Branch Davidian
Church- was being incinerated with taxpayer-financed government
military and police power, another organization often perceived as a
cult-the Church of Scientology-was being given tax-exempt status worth
hundreds of millions of dollars. ...
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#931002a
2. Sidebar 1, THE SPOTLIGHT AND SCIENTOLOGY Over the
years The SPOTLIGHT had reported favorably upon some positive
activities by the Church of Scientology on several fronts: its fight
against the IRS, its battle for religious freedom and its efforts to
inform the public of the dangers of mind-altering psychiatrie drugs,
for example. ...
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#side1
3. Sidebar 2, The SCIENTOLOGY AGENT. Operating one of
the largest private intelligence operations in the world, the Church
of Scientology keeps a close watch on other organizations and
institutions that either rival the church, may provide it some
assistance somewhere in the world or are possible recruiting grounds
for new church members. ...
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#side2
4. Sidebar 3 CHURCH MEMBERS PAY BIG BUCKS Church of
Scientology members are largely highly intelligent, well-spoken,
clean-cut individuals. They don't wear strange costumes or sell
flowers in the streets. ...
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#side3
5. TACTICS AGAINST THE ENEMY. The Scientology cult has
devised a wide-ranging array of tactics to be used against its critics
or dissident members. Over the years various details about these
methods have been reported. Here are some examples: ...
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#side4
* Church of Scientology International Office of the President
letter of November 1, 1993 to The Spotlight
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#931104
o Dear Mr. Ryan, I have received your letter addressed to
Mr. David Miscavige enclosing a galley proof of a story you propose to
run in The Spotlight. Your story is so far removed from reality that
it defies description. ...
In closing, I thank you for checking with us before
publication. Whoever your source for this information is, he has no
credibility and at best has a bizarre, albeit malicious, imagination.
More ...
* The Founding Church of Scientology undated press release on
"Reader's Indigestion: Anatomy of a Misguided Magazine," concerning
Reader's Digest, which printed an article criticle of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#1980\
original Readers Digest Article HERE
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/ReadersDigest.htm
* Scientology CCHR letter of 7 Dec 1978 to Spotlight Magazine
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#781207
o Dear Mr. Blahut,
Pursuant to our conversation the other day, I am
forwarding some information on a recent decision made by HEW Secretary
Joseph Califano which will allow for federal funding (through medicaid
and medicare) of experimental psychosurgical procedures. Psychosurgery
is the irreversible surgical destruction of healthy brain tissue
performed to alter behavior. The procedure has been performed on
hundreds of mental patients, children and even some prisoners.
Psychosurgery has been loudly denounced by various citizens groups and
Members of Congress ...
o Enclosures:
+ Federal Times, April 3, 1978, Psychosurgery Funding
Opposed By Black Caucus, ACLU
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#780403
+ Congressional Black Caucus letter of January 19,
1978 to Honorable Joseph A. Califano Secretary, Department of Health,
Education and Welfare
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#780119
+ December 11, 1978 Federal Times article by Inderjit
Badhwar, "Scandalous Abuse of Trust"
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#781211
+ The Washington Star, article of November 16, 1978,
"Califano Balks At U. S. Ban on Psychosurgery"
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#781116
* Delray Beach News, December 19, 1989, "Men of conscience deserve
our regard," When more chan 25,000 applicants turned out to apply for
630 jobs at the new Moscow McDonald's, it revealed a deep hunger in
the Russian people for freedom, the free enterprise system, the
American way of life - or, at least, a Big Mac. ...
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ld3.htm#891219
* TIME, January 16, 1995, NETWATCH FLAMEWAR Someone or something
has been busy lately on alt.religion.scientology, the Usenet newsgroup
that carries the escalating flamewar, on the Internet between the
Church of Scientology and its critics. ...
continues HERE
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ldidx.htm
roger gonnet
"Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> a écrit dans le
message de news: a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
> There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
> a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> available on the web yet.
Congratulations, Andreas. No suprise the crime cult leaders do really hate
you.
I'm quite surprized to observe that they have not yet discovered all the
crimes they are so certain that you could have commited and could be still
commiting after all these years of war aghainst your websites!
No OTs there should probably explain the reason One,
while
No valid Tech, Admin and ethics should be the reason Two for these flunks!
roger
roger gonnet
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news: oMqNd.16617$d5.1...@newsb.telia.net...
bwhahahahaha!!! this OSA crimecult asshole trying to look strong and ready
to win. Okay, stupid OSAer, don't you realize that Andreas started to combat
ytour criminal maffia since 9 years, that I started 22 years ago, that
people like Arnie, Gerry or Larry started also decades ago and that we are
still at it, with our low incomes and artisanal methods?
r
Spacetraveler
"Lermanet.com" <ale...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:2lfc01hamu5538iig...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:32:36 GMT, "Spacetraveler"
> <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote in message
> >news:a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
> >> There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
> >> a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> >> police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> >> available on the web yet.
> >>
> >> Well done, cult.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >> Andreas Heldal-Lund
> >
> >
> >You may have some time now to address my issue. I understood you have
been
> >busy up there in Norway, with the police and all that. I made just now 2
> >reposts about the fair game issue and your SP/PTS pack.
> >
> >Spacetraveler
> >
>
> well, while you are waiting for andreas to get back to you, perhaps
> you can address this issue... but I doubt it, and be sure to check all
> the sources..
So, you doubt it... You just assume that I will not or that I can not... Why
is that?
In in fact addressed this already extensively with some discussion with
Gerry Armstrong, he however started to run from that (link to that post can
be supplied, I keep interesting links).
I am not interested in what some people did after L. Ron Hubbard disappeared
from the lines. I am not even that interesed in what people did when he was
still around. So, I will skip these. Why? because they do not add anything
to the discussion. People may very well have misinterpret things. Stupidity
of people who do not understand something, we have had through all ages.
Just like at the Jesus Christ phenomena, killing for the sake of purity or
something. Here it counts what Jesus himself said about things, not what
other made of it. Same goes for L. Ron Hubbard.
>
> Duplicity and Understanding - The Scientology CREED
>
>
> Update to:
> http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/carto/ldidx.htm
>
> February, 2005 - Duplicity and understanding
>
> Which Creed is in use by Scientologists: the one published by the
> Church, which proclaims that no agency less than God has the power to
> set aside the inalienable right of all men
>
> "to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own
> opinions and to counter or utter the write upon the opinions of
> others."
Fine...
>
> or Hubbard's "Battle Tactics"?
>
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/sp/pl-1969-02-16-battle-tactics.h
tml
>
> "The prize is 'public opinion' where press is concerned. The only
> safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of
> hate against the enemy, this means standard wartime propaganda is what
> one is doing, complete with atrocity, war crimes trials, the lot. Know
> the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. That's the enemy.
> What they love. That's you."
Issue appears to be quoted in full at that link (I verified). Now, why was
this issue written. It was written to handle a certain situation. A
situation that demanded certain handling to make the threat to the survival
of the organization and Scientology disappear. Extreme situations ask for
extreme ways of handling. Why should one not be allowed to defend oneself.
This issue is aiming at certain people, who do some specific things. The
critics on the ARS appear to make the EXACT SAME mistake as Scientologists
in general do. They take things out of context. One line (or paragraph or
even a whole issue) out of something is not always aiming at ALL people, ALL
situations. Apparently people have big problems to evaluate information and
how to take that information and to whom it is applicable.
Very few Scientologists actually now about the issue, if you read it while
being intern (if you got a hold of it somehow), then you were forced to sign
a bond saying that you do not disclose this information to those whom had no
use for knowing about it. It have not seen it applied when I was intern.
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
"roger gonnet" <r...@antisectes.net> wrote in message
news:420659c2$0$26603$636a...@news.free.fr...
We know already about you... and it's not promising...
My posts address exact issues, and I give exact data, neither of these you
like... so waht do you do, you ridicule, you laugh, you do... whatever...
everythng needed so that people will not start asking questions...and may
start finding out about some things.
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
Fredric L. Rice
>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>available on the web yet.
>Well done, cult.
Love it. And Scientology just asked me to return to the effort, as well.
Don't you just love it when the crooks are their own worst enemy?
---
Stop Elmer Fudd web site: http://www.ElmerFudd.US/
Covert text file server: http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
FRice Antiwar: http://www.skeptictank.org/antiwar.htm
Another Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Bent Stigsen
> "roger gonnet" <r...@antisectes.net> wrote in message
> news:420659c2$0$26603$636a...@news.free.fr...
>
>>"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
>>news: oMqNd.16617$d5.1...@newsb.telia.net...
>>
>>>"Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote in message
>>>news:a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>>>>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>>>>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>>>>available on the web yet.
>>>>
>>>>Well done, cult.
>>>>
>>>>Best wishes,
>>>>Andreas Heldal-Lund
>>>
>>>
>>>You may have some time now to address my issue. I understood you have been
>>>busy up there in Norway, with the police and all that. I made just now 2
>>>reposts about the fair game issue and your SP/PTS pack.
>>
>>
>>bwhahahahaha!!! this OSA crimecult asshole trying to look strong and ready
>>to win. Okay, stupid OSAer, don't you realize that Andreas started to combat
>>ytour criminal maffia since 9 years, that I started 22 years ago, that
>>people like Arnie, Gerry or Larry started also decades ago and that we are
>>still at it, with our low incomes and artisanal methods?
>
>
> We know already about you... and it's not promising...
What is it exactly "we" already know?
> My posts address exact issues, and I give exact data, neither of these you
> like... so waht do you do, you ridicule, you laugh, you do... whatever...
> everythng needed so that people will not start asking questions...and may
> start finding out about some things.
Roger have already been there. Arnie, Gerry, Tory, Chuck, 'Funky Donny'
have been there.
These people have been there:
http://alley.ethercat.com/door/
Then there is the ones that never made it to the door:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
They did all, in one way or another, find out about things.
It is quite enough, thank you.
/Bent
Larry T.
news:a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
> a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> available on the web yet.
>
> Well done, cult.
>
> Best wishes,
> Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
> Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
Does Tory know?
Larry T. @ http://larryontheweb.freeservers.com
Rev Norle Enturbulata
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KWsNd.129695$dP1.4...@newsc.telia.net...
As with...?
| This issue is aiming at certain people, who do some specific things.
Whatever they might be...?
| The
| critics on the ARS appear to make the EXACT SAME mistake as Scientologists
| in general do. They take things out of context. One line (or paragraph or
| even a whole issue) out of something is not always aiming at ALL people,
ALL
| situations.
Can't have it both ways though. You want the things you say to apply to ALL
critics and ALL people. Very Hubbardian.
| Apparently people have big problems to evaluate information and
| how to take that information and to whom it is applicable.
You included.
| Very few Scientologists actually now about the issue, if you read it while
| being intern (if you got a hold of it somehow), then you were forced to
sign
| a bond saying that you do not disclose this information to those whom had
no
| use for knowing about it. It have not seen it applied when I was intern.
You're getting upset. We can tell by your lapsing into Scientology-school
mode and its inherent spelling errors.
Sad that you still find it impossible to address anything but your own
posts, and criticize that of others without actually quoting or addressing
anything in them, while saying that "it's well documented that..."
Evaluate THIS and the quotes you ignored underneath them - quickly,
Thursday's coming!
The Man Behind the Church: How Scientology Began
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056545.asp
Defending Against its Critics
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1055254.asp
What Scientologists Believe - and What Critics Say
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056579.asp
The Star Treatment
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1067682.asp
Addiction Specialists Criticize Detoxification Program
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1051251.asp
Scientology Tests' Purpose and Validity are Questioned
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1008269.asp
Four-Part Series:
Enlightenment's Dark Side (1/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056567.asp
Being In, Breaking Out (2/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1060672.asp
Helping Spread the Word (3/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1064780.asp
Outside Critics are Unacceptable (4/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1064176.asp
It's obvious that this operative is unable to address the truth about the
Scientology cult.
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
* "You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* - L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "Radiation is apparently enormously water-soluble as well as water
removable. According to researchers, one merely has to take a hose to a
building surface or a road to wash the radiation off of it. This factor is
well known to defense trained personnel."
* - L. Ron Hubbard, Clear Body, Clear Mind, page 47
*
"You're supposed to eat vegetables, not listen to them."
- UK Review of Hubbard's "Thank You For Listening"
*
"Scientology is evil; its techniques evil; its practice a serious threat to
the community medically, morally and socially; and its adherents sadly
deluded and often mentally ill."
- 1965 Report into Scientology by Australian Government
Magoo
"Fredric L. Rice" <FR...@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:110cnpr...@corp.supernews.com...
> Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
>>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>>available on the web yet.
>>Well done, cult.
>
> Love it. And Scientology just asked me to return to the effort, as well.
>
> Don't you just love it when the crooks are their own worst enemy?
I have to say having been "in" for 30 years and now out for 4 and a half, it
still amazes me DAILY what junk they pull and how obviously non-religious
and mafia like they are in their actions, yet how little their very own
public knows.
I know...I was there. As most of you know, I even worked with OSA, and many
top Executives. I stood up in court rooms protesting against crtics. I
didn't realize for some time how sick this 'game' of theirs really is.
Thanks, Andreas............and yes, way to go OSA, again. Jeeesh.....2
articles in one week??? Somebody's gonna be in BIG trouble ......
Tory/Magoo~
Spacetraveler
"Bent Stigsen" <ng...@thevoid.dk> wrote in message
news:420667ea$0$48670$edfa...@dread15.news.tele.dk...
Your message?
Spacetraveler
Jommy Cross
<oMqNd.16617$d5.1...@newsb.telia.net>:
<snip>
>You may have some time now to address my issue.
Maybe Andreas has put you out of his system, Space.
That means he has a 'life in fear', right?
Incident zero: Ron trolled you
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
is unverified. You need a valid hashcash token to post to groups other
than alt.test and alt.anonymous.messages. Visit www.panta-rhei.dyndns.org
for abuse and hashcash info.
Bent Stigsen
Yes, it is my message. Or are you asking me to be more explicit?
/Bent
Spacetraveler
Obviously... I don't see the relevance of 'the message', it ended the
discussion.
Spacetraveler
desert mail.com
> There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
> a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> available on the web yet.
It's not as if Scientology Inc. has EVER demonstrated the ability
to learn from its mistakes.
> Well done, cult.
And fully on-policy, too.
> Best wishes,
> Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
> Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
> well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
> honor our egos can tolerate.
> -------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"The law will never make men free; it is men who have got to make the law
free. They are the lovers of law and order, who observe the law when the
government breaks it." -- Henry David Thoreau, from
_Slavery_in_Massachusetts_
Rev Norle Enturbulata
It's the Scientologist's version of "LALALALALALALALA!!"
He's trying not to allow the viewing of these articles telling the truth
about his favorite cult Scientology:
The Man Behind the Church: How Scientology Began
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056545.asp
Defending Against its Critics
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1055254.asp
What Scientologists Believe - and What Critics Say
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056579.asp
The Star Treatment
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1067682.asp
Addiction Specialists Criticize Detoxification Program
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1051251.asp
Scientology Tests' Purpose and Validity are Questioned
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1008269.asp
And, unlike Scientology in any published form, which is never allowed in the
cult to be thought of as less than PERFECT, the Buffalo News has published a
Corrections listing at
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1067437.asp .
Ever seen a "Corrections" listing in a Scientology tract?
Four-Part Series:
Enlightenment's Dark Side (1/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056567.asp
Being In, Breaking Out (2/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1060672.asp
Helping Spread the Word (3/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1064780.asp
Outside Critics are Unacceptable (4/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1064176.asp
Rev Norle Enturbulata
Here you see yet another facet of the deliberately limited mindset of a cult
dupe. In this case it's Scientology.
This operative thinks that by coming to the newsgroup and trolling a couple
of people he is drowning out the existence of articles at the Buffalo News
that are somehow already in print and online, and are STILL being read by
people worldwide. More and more people are finding out the truth about the
Scientology cult, and this loon comes here to show us all how a
Scientologist acts.
Here are the articles this operative is dreadfully afraid that someone will
see:
Bent Stigsen
How about it...
What is it exactly "we" already know?
Or are you just trying to trick the readers.
>>>>>My posts address exact issues, and I give exact data, neither of
>>>>>these you like... so waht do you do, you ridicule, you laugh, you
>>>>>do... whatever... everythng needed so that people will not start
>>>>>asking questions...and may start finding out about some things.
>>>>
>>>>Roger have already been there. Arnie, Gerry, Tory, Chuck, 'Funky
>>>>Donny' have been there.
>>>>
>>>>These people have been there: http://alley.ethercat.com/door/
>>>>
>>>>Then there is the ones that never made it to the door:
>>>>http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
>>>>
>>>>They did all, in one way or another, find out about things.
>>>>
>>>>It is quite enough, thank you.
>>>
>>>Your message?
>>
>>Yes, it is my message. Or are you asking me to be more explicit?
>
> Obviously... I don't see the relevance of 'the message', it ended the
> discussion.
Ok, it perhaps is a bit far fetched, I thought it would be clear with
regard to your implications.
You have often said something to the effect that people should find out
for themselves, go to the source and find the truth, instead of
listening to other peoples opinions or interpretations, and that critics
try to prevent people from doing just that (finding the truth).
You imply the same here (with you last comment), that Rogers actions is
diversion, so that people wont look into things and find the truth about
some things (in context about the policies, I generalize it to about
Scientology).
But fact is that a lot of people already have been there (in
Scientology), and firsthand found out about "things". People outside
have firsthand "felt" Scientology through its policies on
wogs/ex-members/critics.
You say this in one of your posts: (issue="fair game")
<quote>
HCO PL 21 July 68 cancelled the 1967 issue that they are upholding this
very day as being in use!!!! My God, it was cancelled already 36 YEARS
AGO!!!!
<end quote>
Fair game didn't stop 36 years ago. Ex-members say it. Victims say it,
which court rulings confirm. The church's "handling" of Andreas atleast
imply it. Whatever confusion you can make about the written words in
policies, has nothing to do with reality.
And it is not just fair game, as I implicitly hinted. Things like; OT
abilities, cure of illness, sanity or whatever Hubbard promised, is not
there. A lot of people have been there and found nothing. What is the
point in people finding out about Scientology in vain or fatality (like
McPherson, Perkins, ...).
That was "the message".
You want Scientology?, fine keep it to the spiritual parts. Socially and
"medically" it is a disaster.
/Bent
roger gonnet
>
> "roger gonnet" <r...@antisectes.net> wrote in message
> news:420659c2$0$26603$636a...@news.free.fr...
>>
>> "Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message
>> de
>> news: oMqNd.16617$d5.1...@newsb.telia.net...
>> >
>> > "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote in
>> > message
>> > news:a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
>
> My posts address exact issues, and I give exact data, neither of these you
> like... so waht do you do, you ridicule, you laugh, you do... whatever...
> everythng needed so that people will not start asking questions...and may
> start finding out about some things.
you're giving what data? Lies from uncompetent or uninformed people? Very
scarce rulings that scientology was'nt (for once) not condemned?
r
roger gonnet
>
> "Bent Stigsen" <ng...@thevoid.dk> wrote in message
> news:4206a1bd$0$48676$edfa...@dread15.news.tele.dk...
>> Spacetraveler wrote:
>> > "Bent Stigsen" <ng...@thevoid.dk> wrote in message
>> > news:420667ea$0$48670$edfa...@dread15.news.tele.dk...
>> >
>> >> Spacetraveler wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> "roger gonnet" <r...@antisectes.net> wrote in message
>> >>> news:420659c2$0$26603$636a...@news.free.fr...
>> >>>
>> >>>> "Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le
>> >>>> message de news: oMqNd.16617$d5.1...@newsb.telia.net...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> "Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net" <hel...@online.no> wrote
>> >>>>> in message news:a1vb01lh3ou488ut4...@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>
>
> discussion.
Then go back to where I answered to your accusations against Andreas
and word clear the words andreas, gerry, arnie and so on :-))
Spacetraveler
Any idea how many blind people I have seen there. Is one of these examples
not Tory as well? When I say finding out, I mean exactly what it says.
Adopting something is not finding out. Finding out means persistence, it
means going to the bottom of things.
> People outside
> have firsthand "felt" Scientology through its policies on
> wogs/ex-members/critics.
>
> You say this in one of your posts: (issue="fair game")
> <quote>
> HCO PL 21 July 68 cancelled the 1967 issue that they are upholding this
> very day as being in use!!!! My God, it was cancelled already 36 YEARS
> AGO!!!!
> <end quote>
> Fair game didn't stop 36 years ago. Ex-members say it. Victims say it,
> which court rulings confirm. The church's "handling" of Andreas atleast
> imply it. Whatever confusion you can make about the written words in
> policies, has nothing to do with reality.
Once again, the organization is run by policy letters, as per policy it was
cancelled. Meaning that if it was used it was not as per policy, it was not
per L. Ron Hubbard, meaning it was not Scientology.
>
> And it is not just fair game, as I implicitly hinted. Things like; OT
> abilities, cure of illness, sanity or whatever Hubbard promised, is not
> there.
Is not a promise, you still don't get it do you.
> A lot of people have been there and found nothing.
I don't think you have a lot of people, this is the claim, but it is very
few in fact. Just make a list of all the names you got. Now make a list also
of all those who some time or another who did something in Scientology
during let's 1950/80. Your statistics may be a little out of balance, may
be...
I know and have met a lot of people who found a lot.
> What is the
> point in people finding out about Scientology in vain or fatality (like
> McPherson, Perkins, ...).
>
> That was "the message".
>
> You want Scientology?, fine keep it to the spiritual parts. Socially and
> "medically" it is a disaster.
You assume, and you will not find out for yourself. I recall you did not
even know what a course was about. You have never been there. And now you
are here claiming stuff? Just great...
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
As ever you are not being to the point... Accusations?
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
You make me :-), you really don't know what you talk 'bout, hmmm... It would
seriously surprise me if you ever would say something constructive and to
the point...
Spacetraveler
Lermanet.com
Morning, coffee, lets settle down, and see if this OSa scientology
actor actually addressed anything, Ill predict before reading that he
just engaged in more Fallacious argument... well, coffee is here, lets
read his 'reply' and see if he said aything... by even reading his
stuff one agrees to a worst case of having ones time wasted... but Ill
give him another chance, and read...
I always expect at some instant, sometime in your not too distant
future that you are going to look up from your project orders and
start to actually look around...
And by your first 'comment' You just did it!
Man are you toadly blinded by hubbard's lies?
>In in fact addressed this already extensively with some discussion with
>Gerry Armstrong, he however started to run from that (link to that post can
>be supplied, I keep interesting links).
>
Do tell, gerry knows how the prison for your mind is built...
>I am not interested in what some people did after L. Ron Hubbard disappeared
>from the lines. I am not even that interesed in what people did when he was
>still around. So, I will skip these. Why? because they do not add anything
Whatever, in short, you are not responding, just continuing to
obfuscate.. thats a fancy word Hubbard picked out of a Synonym book
for muddies the waters...
>to the discussion. People may very well have misinterpret things. Stupidity
>of people who do not understand something, we have had through all ages.
>Just like at the Jesus Christ phenomena, killing for the sake of purity or
>something. Here it counts what Jesus himself said about things, not what
>other made of it. Same goes for L. Ron Hubbard.
>
I think you are are a new recruit, from some other country, whohas
been hatted to take over the spacetravelor nickname cause the old one
started having doubts about Scientology...
sigh...
see yah when you get out, Ill tell your story too, and be sure to
bring lots of documents when you leave...
Arnie lerma
sheesh , what a waste of time...
i supposethis new "spacetravelor, for whome english is a 2nd language,
won't fare much better than the last,
Poor guy needs to read my exit pages...
sip of coffee..
Rev Norle Enturbulata
Affirmations?
The Man Behind the Church: How Scientology Began
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056545.asp
Defending Against its Critics
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1055254.asp
What Scientologists Believe - and What Critics Say
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056579.asp
The Star Treatment
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1067682.asp
Addiction Specialists Criticize Detoxification Program
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1051251.asp
Scientology Tests' Purpose and Validity are Questioned
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1008269.asp
Four-Part Series:
Enlightenment's Dark Side (1/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056567.asp
Being In, Breaking Out (2/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1060672.asp
Helping Spread the Word (3/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1064780.asp
Outside Critics are Unacceptable (4/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1064176.asp
It seems clams come with chicken sauce by default.
--
Spacetraveler
>
> Morning, coffee, lets settle down, and see if this OSa scientology
> actor actually addressed anything, Ill predict before reading that he
> just engaged in more Fallacious argument... well, coffee is here, lets
> read his 'reply' and see if he said aything... by even reading his
> stuff one agrees to a worst case of having ones time wasted... but Ill
> give him another chance, and read...
Amazing you attempted to discuss something?
snip
> >So, you doubt it... You just assume that I will not or that I can not...
Why
> >is that?
> >
>
> I always expect at some instant, sometime in your not too distant
> future that you are going to look up from your project orders and
> start to actually look around...
>
> And by your first 'comment' You just did it!
>
>
> Man are you toadly blinded by hubbard's lies?
You have to show it being lies.
>
>
> >In in fact addressed this already extensively with some discussion with
> >Gerry Armstrong, he however started to run from that (link to that post
can
> >be supplied, I keep interesting links).
> >
>
> Do tell, gerry knows how the prison for your mind is built...
That's why he is stuck into it. he runs as soon he is out of arguments. Or
if the arguments gets too complicated.
>
> >I am not interested in what some people did after L. Ron Hubbard
disappeared
> >from the lines. I am not even that interesed in what people did when he
was
> >still around. So, I will skip these. Why? because they do not add
anything
>
> Whatever, in short, you are not responding, just continuing to
> obfuscate.. thats a fancy word Hubbard picked out of a Synonym book
> for muddies the waters...
You are missing that you have to analyze the Hubbard writings themselves, if
you are to find wrong with him.
>
>
> >to the discussion. People may very well have misinterpret things.
Stupidity
> >of people who do not understand something, we have had through all ages.
> >Just like at the Jesus Christ phenomena, killing for the sake of purity
or
> >something. Here it counts what Jesus himself said about things, not what
> >other made of it. Same goes for L. Ron Hubbard.
> >
>
> I think you are are a new recruit, from some other country, whohas
> been hatted to take over the spacetravelor nickname cause the old one
> started having doubts about Scientology...
A new recruit where? I have ever questioned the current management or what
some people may do, and even LRH, still do by the way at times.
>
> sigh...
>
> see yah when you get out, Ill tell your story too, and be sure to
> bring lots of documents when you leave...
>
> Arnie lerma
>
> sheesh , what a waste of time...
> i supposethis new "spacetravelor, for whome english is a 2nd language,
> won't fare much better than the last,
> Poor guy needs to read my exit pages...
Funny, what about my exit pages, you totally skipped my exit pages, meaning
you missed (look it up, it was there). Meaning also you failed to discuss...
again....
I post it here again:
Zinj
@hotmail.com says...
<snip>
> Once again, the organization is run by policy letters, as per policy it was
> cancelled. Meaning that if it was used it was not as per policy, it was not
> per L. Ron Hubbard, meaning it was not Scientology.
Scientology 'policy' is a deliberately chaotic Hubbub of conflicting
instructions intended only to allow Hubbard Himself to do any damn thing
he wanted, anytime He wanted, to anyone He wanted but still be able to
claim doctrinal support (from His own doctrine).
The *essense* of Hubbardian Policy is 'Never Do Anything Except What I
Tell You' while balancing it with 'I Told You To Do That Wednesday;
Today Is Thursday. What Have You Done For Me Lately?'
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Kare...@gmail.com
Ok, so let's have the exact issue of why you come on here, what links
you have to OSA and the exact data of WHO you are "Spacetraveller"...if
you have the courage. Those you are criticizing do have that courage.
Michael Pattinson
Rev Norle Enturbulata
<Kare...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107821941.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Here's some "exact data" that Spacechicken can't confront:
The Man Behind the Church: How Scientology Began
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056545.asp
Defending Against its Critics
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1055254.asp
What Scientologists Believe - and What Critics Say
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056579.asp
The Star Treatment
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1067682.asp
Addiction Specialists Criticize Detoxification Program
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1051251.asp
Scientology Tests' Purpose and Validity are Questioned
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1008269.asp
Four-Part Series:
Enlightenment's Dark Side (1/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056567.asp
Being In, Breaking Out (2/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1060672.asp
Helping Spread the Word (3/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1064780.asp
Outside Critics are Unacceptable (4/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1064176.asp
...or perhaps this operative is just chicken. BAAAK, BAAAK!
Rev Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
"The anti-drug campaign sounds like a red herring to me - they are just
trying to promote Scientology in our schools. I really do not know why the
police are supporting them."
- A parent of a 15-year-old attending Secondary School in Westminster UK,
2004
*
"We would not for a moment consider allowing Scientologists to come into our
school."
- Joe Heggarty, governor of St Vincent's RC primary school, Westminster UK
* from The Wood & Vale newspaper, at http://tinyurl.com/5qmg4
realpch
Thanks for the public reminder. I'm afraid it seem this way to me too.
Peach
Pts 2
That remains clear and irrefutable "proof" that you are making a
difference and sending a global message.
Keep up the great work.
:-))
Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Scientology/
Spacetraveler
"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:42082008...@aol.com...
Meaning what? That I am a clam and ya guys can't make me think?
Well, that'll be the day... .-)
Spacetraveler
>
> Peach
roger gonnet
>
>
> As ever you are not being to the point... Accusations?
easy: I was just explaining that you don't use word clearing neither
verification of facts before speaking. You're a liar, and you know that.
r
roger gonnet
>
>
> You make me :-), you really don't know what you talk 'bout, hmmm... It
> would
> seriously surprise me if you ever would say something constructive and to
> the point...
sorry, you're calling "constructive" only the facts in possible favor of
your own activities, that one can resume : "Dominate the world".
I consider this as the worse and the most evil purp one can have.
Loving people is in no way dominating them.
r
Spacetraveler
>> My posts address exact issues,
>Ok, so let's have the exact issue of why you come on here,
Clarifying what a Scientologist actually is..
http://groups.google.se/groups?q=g:thl383478573d&dq=&hl=sv&lr=&selm=9f53d1e2
.0411120644.23e1328a%40posting.google.com
> what links
>you have to OSA and the exact data of WHO you are "Spacetraveller"...if
>you have the courage.
Who I am carries no importance. What I say, and the data that I forward
however does... Peope can do with it what they like.
Has nothing to with courage, it's a practicality.
> Those you are criticizing do have that courage.
I critize the validity of their data, data can be judged all by the data
itself.
About Identities:
http://groups.google.se/groups?hl=sv&lr=&selm=4o4vd.10966%24d5.96343%40newsb
.telia.net
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
Well, your claims are as empty as ever... we're done...
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
And again an empty claim with no back-up... Man, what are you stupid, you
really don't see what you are doing, do ya? You dwell in judgments and
opinion.
Spacetraveler
Larry T.
nouvelles :42087838$0$24740$626a...@news.libre.franc...
> ;
> ; < de "Spacetraveler" ;spacetra...@hotmail.COM> ; un écrit dans le
> message de
> ; nouvelles : npKNd.129762$dp1.4...@newsc.telia.filet...
> ; > ;
> ; > ;
> ; > ; Vous me faites :-), vous vraiment ne savez pas ce que vous parlez
> l''accès, hmmm... Il
> ; > ;
> ; > ; étonnez-sérieusement moi si vous jamais diriez quelque chose de
> constructif et
à
> ; > ; le point...
> ;
> ; désolé, vous appelez "constructif" seulement les faits dans possible
> faveur de
> ; vos propres activités, celle-là peuvent reprendre : "dominez le monde".
> ;
> ; Je considère ceci en tant que plus mauvais et le purp le plus mauvais un
> peut avoir.
> ; Les personnes affectueuses les dominent nullement.
Bien, vos réclamations sont aussi vides que jamais... nous sommes faits...
Spacetraveler
--
Larry T. @ http://larryontheweb.freeservers.com
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Np%Nd.129860$dP1.4...@newsc.telia.net...
Larry T.
nouvelles :420877b5$0$24726$626a...@news.libre.franc...
> ;
> ; < de "Spacetraveler" ;spacetra...@hotmail.COM> ; un écrit dans le
> message de
> ; nouvelles : anKNd.129761$dp1.4...@newsc.telia.filet...
> ; > ;
> ; > ;
> ; > ; Car jamais vous n'êtes pas au point... Accusations ?
> ;
> ; facile : J'étais juste expliquant que vous n'employez pas le mot ne
> dégageant ni l'un ni l'autre
> ; vérification des faits avant de parler. Vous êtes un menteur, et vous
> savez cela.
Et encore une réclamation vide sans le support... Homme, ce qui sont vous
stupide, vous
vraiment ne voient pas ce que vous faites, font le ya ? Vous demeurez dans
les jugements et
opinion.
Spacetraveler
--
Larry T. @ http://larryontheweb.freeservers.com
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Jo%Nd.129859$dP1.4...@newsc.telia.net...
realpch
Ah, you are replying to Zinj's sig. Personally, I have eschewed the use
of "clams" to designate Scientologists. I believe the whole of the sig
is a takeoff on a famous Dorthy Parker bon mot. Perhaps you might look
it up. However, I do agree with Zinj's assessment of Hubbard's policies.
What a morass!
Peach
Spacetraveler
I think it is taken from the book "History of Man". It contains a tale about
clams.
> Perhaps you might look
> it up. However, I do agree with Zinj's assessment of Hubbard's policies.
> What a morass!
A pixilated Scientologist may tell you that you have MUs.
Spacetraveler
realpch
> > Ah, you are replying to Zinj's sig. Personally, I have eschewed the use
> > of "clams" to designate Scientologists. I believe the whole of the sig
> > is a takeoff on a famous Dorthy Parker bon mot.
>
> I think it is taken from the book "History of Man". It contains a tale about
> clams.
Yes yes, we all know that part. It's the *whole* of the quote of which I speak.
> > Perhaps you might look
> > it up. However, I do agree with Zinj's assessment of Hubbard's policies.
> > What a morass!
>
> A pixilated Scientologist may tell you that you have MUs.
>
> Spacetraveler
Yeah, but would I care?
: )
Peach
Spacetraveler
If you know it to be untrue, then you should not...
Spacetraveler
> : )
> Peach
Rev Norle Enturbulata
Thus the Scientologist operative seeks to confuse the issue, by at first
appearing to support the cult, then appearing to sort-of kinda criticize the
cult. Then it goes all Fluffy on everyone and says basically NOTHING, but
uses lots of words to do it.
Since L. Ron Hubbard said an awful lot of NOTHING despite his endless abuse
of the English language, and Scientologists have to emulate their dead
pill-addled guru at all possible times (well, all times isn't it Space
Chicken?), it follows that this operative must do the same.
But it still can't confront the Buffalo Times articles telling the truth
about the Scientology cult. This too is Hubbard emulation.
--
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
* "You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* - L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "Radiation is apparently enormously water-soluble as well as water
removable. According to researchers, one merely has to take a hose to a
building surface or a road to wash the radiation off of it. This factor is
well known to defense trained personnel."
* - L. Ron Hubbard, Clear Body, Clear Mind, page 47
*
* "Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgement,
leadership and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable
results... Not considered qualified for command or promotion at this time.
Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised."
* - US Navy Fitness Report Reprimanding L. Ron Hubbard
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>available on the web yet.
And the cult didn't like it. Today they added a new page to
their DA page on me:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund10.html
Gee, I got 10 pages now and they still don't dare to link back
to me. Imagine people having access to both sides and making
their own informed decisions. Can't have that... ;)
David Touretzky is now leading with 15 DA pages (!!) including a
nice PDF file, Alexander Dvorkin on a strong second with 12, and
Rob Clark and myself with 10 DA pages each. :) I show these
pages to everybody, they're pretty effective.
Continue the great work, silly cult.
PS: The newspaper that had the 4 page article is called
Rogalands Avis and is a real newspaper even if the cult tries to
make it look like it is not. Their web address is
http://www.rogalandsavis.no/ (article from Sunday is not webbed,
hope to scan it soon)
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
enemy from oppression.
---------------------------------------------[Thomas Paine]----
Android Cat
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:38:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
> www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
>> There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>> a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>> police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>> available on the web yet.
>
> And the cult didn't like it. Today they added a new page to
> their DA page on me:
>
> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund10.html
>
> Gee, I got 10 pages now and they still don't dare to link back
> to me. Imagine people having access to both sides and making
> their own informed decisions. Can't have that... ;)
They Flunked that too. They forgot to say "members of a *bonafide*
religion." Tsk!
> David Touretzky is now leading with 15 DA pages (!!) including a
> nice PDF file, Alexander Dvorkin on a strong second with 12, and
> Rob Clark and myself with 10 DA pages each. :) I show these
> pages to everybody, they're pretty effective.
>
> Continue the great work, silly cult.
>
> PS: The newspaper that had the 4 page article is called
> Rogalands Avis and is a real newspaper even if the cult tries to
> make it look like it is not. Their web address is
> http://www.rogalandsavis.no/ (article from Sunday is not webbed,
> hope to scan it soon)
--
Ron of that ilk.
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
Will the "RFW correspondent" in Norway get RPF'ed for reporting
that it was only a "local joke" and only a "newspaper"?
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate.
-------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:04:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
desert mail.com
www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:38:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
> www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
> >There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
> >a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> >police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> >available on the web yet.
> And the cult didn't like it. Today they added a new page to
> their DA page on me:
>
> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund10.html
>
> Gee, I got 10 pages now and they still don't dare to link back
> to me. Imagine people having access to both sides and making
> their own informed decisions. Can't have that... ;)
Your spild barstid! Jailer's pet! I'm jealous.
> David Touretzky is now leading with 15 DA pages (!!) including a
> nice PDF file, Alexander Dvorkin on a strong second with 12, and
> Rob Clark and myself with 10 DA pages each. :) I show these
> pages to everybody, they're pretty effective.
This is an excellent way to judge the effectiveness of the human
rights activists efforts! Thatnk you for the suggestion.
> Continue the great work, silly cult.
>
> PS: The newspaper that had the 4 page article is called
> Rogalands Avis and is a real newspaper even if the cult tries to
> make it look like it is not. Their web address is
> http://www.rogalandsavis.no/ (article from Sunday is not webbed,
> hope to scan it soon)
"Real newspaper?" As if Scientology Inc.'s "Freedom[sic]" magazine
was real and Rogalands Avis isn't?! LOL!
> Best wishes,
> Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
> Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
> enemy from oppression.
> ---------------------------------------------[Thomas Paine]----
>
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Books are the treasured wealth of the world and the fit inheritance of
generations and nations." -- Henry David Thoreau, from _Walden_
Larry T.
news:36svhuF...@individual.net...
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:04:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
> www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:38:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
>> www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
>> >There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>> >a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>> >police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>> >available on the web yet.
>
>> And the cult didn't like it. Today they added a new page to
>> their DA page on me:
>>
>> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund10.html
>>
>> Gee, I got 10 pages now and they still don't dare to link back
>> to me. Imagine people having access to both sides and making
>> their own informed decisions. Can't have that... ;)
>
> Your spild barstid! Jailer's pet! I'm jealous.
>
>> David Touretzky is now leading with 15 DA pages (!!) including a
>> nice PDF file, Alexander Dvorkin on a strong second with 12, and
>> Rob Clark and myself with 10 DA pages each. :) I show these
>> pages to everybody, they're pretty effective.
>
> This is an excellent way to judge the effectiveness of the human
> rights activists efforts! Thatnk you for the suggestion.
>
>> Continue the great work, silly cult.
(SNIP)
Desertphile:
The vast inderverance of human tolerance repiferates itself daily on a more
majestic scale of sorient attitudes.
To assume that one embellishment of another's "tech on talk" will justify
the matter has been the folly of men gone now for eons.
Keith Henson
<hel...@online.no> wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:38:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
>www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
>>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
>>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
>>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
>>available on the web yet.
>
>And the cult didn't like it. Today they added a new page to
>their DA page on me:
>
>http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund10.html
>
>Gee, I got 10 pages now and they still don't dare to link back
>to me. Imagine people having access to both sides and making
>their own informed decisions. Can't have that... ;)
>
>David Touretzky is now leading with 15 DA pages (!!) including a
>nice PDF file, Alexander Dvorkin on a strong second with 12, and
>Rob Clark and myself with 10 DA pages each. :) I show these
>pages to everybody, they're pretty effective.
ARRGH! I am downstat with only 8 pages. :-)
>Continue the great work, silly cult.
It has been some time since I kept track of their silly and
counterproductive hate pages. At 60 listed are they at an all time
high?
I think Tanya is the latest. Is that directly related to the reaming
the cult took in the Buffalo paper?
Talk about a weak response!
Keith
realpch
>
> http://www.xenu.net/news/
>
> Will the "RFW correspondent" in Norway get RPF'ed for reporting
> that it was only a "local joke" and only a "newspaper"?
>
> Best wishes,
> Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
> Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
> well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
> honor our egos can tolerate.
> -------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
<snip>
Wow! Nice picture of you too. Hope you can translate it for us
non-Norweigan readers.
Peach
Lady Chatterly
realpch <rea...@aol.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
Snip.
>Wow! Nice picture of you too. Hope you can translate it for us
>non-Norweigan readers.
How do you have to laugh?
>Peach
But we do not post to reply to anyone, anywhere.
--
Lady Chatterly
"I'm not a 'bot' either but I can fake it as good as a pretender like
yourself." -- Philip Lewis
Spacetraveler
"Keith Henson" <hkhe...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:420a64ae...@nntp.broadband.rogers.com...
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:04:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
> <hel...@online.no> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:38:09 +0100, Andreas Heldal-Lund -
> >www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:
> >
> >>There's a full 4 page article on me and the fight against CoS in
> >>a Norwegian newspaper today. The cult keeps trying to get the
> >>police to procecute me here, so this is my reply. Article is not
> >>available on the web yet.
> >
> >And the cult didn't like it. Today they added a new page to
> >their DA page on me:
> >
> >http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/lund10.html
> >
> >Gee, I got 10 pages now and they still don't dare to link back
> >to me. Imagine people having access to both sides and making
> >their own informed decisions. Can't have that... ;)
> >
> >David Touretzky is now leading with 15 DA pages (!!) including a
> >nice PDF file, Alexander Dvorkin on a strong second with 12, and
> >Rob Clark and myself with 10 DA pages each. :) I show these
> >pages to everybody, they're pretty effective.
>
> ARRGH! I am downstat with only 8 pages. :-)
>
> >Continue the great work, silly cult.
And that must be why your lacking valid counter arguments when discussing
with me. You opinon has no value, what should be judged how you you are to
make your stance when faced with opposition.
>
> It has been some time since I kept track of their silly and
> counterproductive hate pages. At 60 listed are they at an all time
> high?
>
> I think Tanya is the latest. Is that directly related to the reaming
> the cult took in the Buffalo paper?
>
> Talk about a weak response!
The ARS is really a meeting place of the critics. But none of the critics
face Andreas with his SP/PTS pack claim nor that he is since quite some time
avoiding my posts about that. Now why is that?
Yeah, that's right. Andreas is member of your cult, so he has to be right no
matter what. He is not be questioned, he is always to be defended. Sounds
pretty much the behaviur of the present CoS.
Spacetraveler
Rev Norle Enturbulata
Failed attempt at projection again. And get some writing skills together,
or just throw the Scientologese out the window, m'kay? Of course you'd have
to stop acting like a Superior Wanker as well, but you probably can't give
your wanking up, so go figure.
Can't address that death threat to Gerry Armstrong you made, hm? Or the
Buffalo News articles, or any of the other "entheta" on the newsgroup that
you avoid like the plague?
The Man Behind the Church: How Scientology Began
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056545.asp
Defending Against its Critics
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1055254.asp
What Scientologists Believe - and What Critics Say
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056579.asp
The Star Treatment
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1067682.asp
Addiction Specialists Criticize Detoxification Program
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1051251.asp
Scientology Tests' Purpose and Validity are Questioned
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1008269.asp
Four-Part Series:
Enlightenment's Dark Side (1/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050130/1056567.asp
Being In, Breaking Out (2/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050131/1060672.asp
Helping Spread the Word (3/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050201/1064780.asp
Outside Critics are Unacceptable (4/4)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050202/1064176.asp
Rev Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
Bent Stigsen
>>>>>>>We know already about you... and it's not promising...
>>
>>How about it...
>>What is it exactly "we" already know?
>>
>>Or are you just trying to trick the readers.
Ok, since you apparently will not answer, I'll enlighten the readers
instead.
Spacetraveler likes to do cheap rhetorical tricks. By insinuating
something bad without giving specifics (like above), he relies on that
the readers will; assume there is something to it, and blow things out
of proportions. As a bonus, he can't be caught telling a lie.
>>>>>>>My posts address exact issues, and I give exact data, neither of
>>>>>>>these you like... so waht do you do, you ridicule, you laugh, you
>>>>>>>do... whatever... everythng needed so that people will not start
>>>>>>>asking questions...and may start finding out about some things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Roger have already been there. Arnie, Gerry, Tory, Chuck, 'Funky
>>>>>>Donny' have been there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>These people have been there: http://alley.ethercat.com/door/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then there is the ones that never made it to the door:
>>>>>>http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>They did all, in one way or another, find out about things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is quite enough, thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your message?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, it is my message. Or are you asking me to be more explicit?
>>>
>>>Obviously... I don't see the relevance of 'the message', it ended the
>>>discussion.
>>
>>Ok, it perhaps is a bit far fetched, I thought it would be clear with
>>regard to your implications.
>>You have often said something to the effect that people should find out
>>for themselves, go to the source and find the truth, instead of
>>listening to other peoples opinions or interpretations, and that critics
>>try to prevent people from doing just that (finding the truth).
>>You imply the same here (with you last comment), that Rogers actions is
>>diversion, so that people wont look into things and find the truth about
>>some things (in context about the policies, I generalize it to about
>>Scientology).
>>
>>But fact is that a lot of people already have been there (in
>>Scientology), and firsthand found out about "things".
>
> Any idea how many blind people I have seen there. Is one of these examples
> not Tory as well? When I say finding out, I mean exactly what it says.
> Adopting something is not finding out. Finding out means persistence, it
> means going to the bottom of things.
That is just your claim, that they didn't find out. I think it is denial
on your part.
If the ex-members stories didn't support eachother or didn't match other
information that has trickled out, then I would be more cautious.
For example, when Tory and Gerry say that fair game didn't stop back in
'68, and recent courtcases support this, then I have no reason to
disbelieve it. Your presence and behavior here on a.r.s., I just see as
another piece of evidence.
>>People outside
>>have firsthand "felt" Scientology through its policies on
>>wogs/ex-members/critics.
>>
>>You say this in one of your posts: (issue="fair game")
>><quote>
>>HCO PL 21 July 68 cancelled the 1967 issue that they are upholding this
>>very day as being in use!!!! My God, it was cancelled already 36 YEARS
>>AGO!!!!
>><end quote>
>>Fair game didn't stop 36 years ago. Ex-members say it. Victims say it,
>>which court rulings confirm. The church's "handling" of Andreas atleast
>>imply it. Whatever confusion you can make about the written words in
>>policies, has nothing to do with reality.
>
> Once again, the organization is run by policy letters, as per policy it was
> cancelled. Meaning that if it was used it was not as per policy, it was not
> per L. Ron Hubbard, meaning it was not Scientology.
It is just like that movie "Mars attacks". The aliens say "we come in
peace", and then they blast the welcome commitee to atoms.
Take a recipe for crumble cakes, put on a sticker over the title, so
that it says applepie.
Now the million dollar question: If you follow the recipe, what do you
get. Crumble cakes or applepie?
In other words, just because the wording have been changed a little here
and there, doesn't mean the net effect miraculously changes from fair
game to something nice.
>>And it is not just fair game, as I implicitly hinted. Things like; OT
>>abilities, cure of illness, sanity or whatever Hubbard promised, is not
>>there.
>
> Is not a promise, you still don't get it do you.
Promises, claims. What would you call below statements.
[quote from "History of man"]
This is useful knowledge. With it the bond again see, the lame walk, the
ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner. By its
use the thousand abilities Man has sought to recover become his once more.
...
Today, Eleanor has arthritis. She is audited "whole track" with 1952
techniques. Tonight she doesn’t have arthritis. Miracles, using "whole
track" are plentiful.
[end quote]
Sounds like promises to me. Why dont you enlighten me. What is it that I
dont get?
>>A lot of people have been there and found nothing.
>
> I don't think you have a lot of people, this is the claim, but it is very
> few in fact. Just make a list of all the names you got. Now make a list also
> of all those who some time or another who did something in Scientology
> during let's 1950/80. Your statistics may be a little out of balance, may
> be...
>
> I know and have met a lot of people who found a lot.
Scientology/Dianetics have been around since the fifties. Whatever
"they" (whom you speak of) did or found, it is not made very visible, or
hasn't made an revolutionary impact on society, as it would if there was
something to Hubbards claims.
Surely if Scientology/Dianetics could *effectively* cure insanity or any
other disease, then it would be something worth writing about, and if it
made people more "able", then where are the more able.
>>What is the
>>point in people finding out about Scientology in vain or fatality (like
>>McPherson, Perkins, ...).
>>
>>That was "the message".
>>
>>You want Scientology?, fine keep it to the spiritual parts. Socially and
>>"medically" it is a disaster.
>
> You assume, and you will not find out for yourself. I recall you did not
> even know what a course was about. You have never been there. And now you
> are here claiming stuff? Just great...
Oh look!, more rhetorical tricks :)
Yes, I have questioned things I didn't know anything about. You refer to
this thread of course.
http://groups.google.dk/groups?threadm=9f53d1e2.0411271638.3b739c70%40posting.google.com
But that doesn't mean I don't know anything about whatever I have an
opinion about or claim.
There is a lot I think point in the same direction, some gravely enough
to call it disastrous, if it where to become common practice. Treatment
of critics (i.e. Fair game) obviously being one of them. Their type of
management and use of RPF. Medical claims which dont work, and may keep
people from recieving proper treatment.
Recently read bits of his views on children:
http://www.scientology.org/p_jpg/wis/wiseng/15/15-child.htm
[quote]
Long concerned with the well-being of man’s future, L. Ron Hubbard
developed dozens of techniques to enhance the welfare of a child. As a
basic orientation, Mr. Hubbard points out that the child is not an
enfant terrible who must be forcefully molded or broken if he is ever to
behave as a responsible adult. Rather, the child must be seen for what
he is: a fully aware individual in a body that has not attained full
growth. And recognizing that what applies to an adult’s behavior also
applies to the child, the Scientologist may utilize the same means to
help children that he employs to help adults.
[end quote]
I dont know why he imply that some would consider "the child" an enfant
terrible, or that an enfant terrible must be "forcefully molded or
broken", or why it is put in opposition to his claim (could be a
rhetorical trick). Yet again it seems that he just singled out an old
philosophy, and called it truth without any further intellectual
reasoning. Read all about it...
http://www.google.com/search?q="miniature+adults"+"child+psychology"
Anyway a child is certainly *not* an adult, as they don't have the same
conceptual understanding of rules, love, hate, sex, morality, self, etc.
I dont know if there is any pure cases where a person, through entire
childhood, have been treated as if they had an adults understanding or
being a fully aware individual. I think the outcome at best would be
unpredictable.
I read about a school in Denmark (http://www.kildeskolen-naestved.dk/).
From their description of Hubbard and his study-"technology", I think
it is safe to say that they (who started the school) are Scientologists.
The interesting thing is, that they write that the reason for the
parents to start the school, was that each had kids that had experienced
setbacks(?) in the regular school and did not want to go to school anymore.
It is obviously too little information to make conclusions on any
connection to Hubbards "miniature addult" views, but I did find it a
peculiar coincidence?
/Bent