I am no longer a Scientologist
Voltaire's Child
year later) I still very much wanted to be a Scientologist. I resisted being
thought of as a Free Zoner and just knew that I was on my own with it.
Then I tried the Free Zone and got some benefit, I did feel. I still do.
Later, I decided I was more an indie or heretical Scientologist but still
supportive of the Free Zone and those who wished to be part of or affiliated
with it.
I have always liked to debunk stereotypes and look at more than one side of
the issue. Sometimes if there's no other side immediately perceivable, I'll
just make one! When I was in CofS but hangin' on a.r.s. and still feeling
pretty party line, if I saw a critic saying or doing something cool, I'd
give credit where credit was due. Later, if I saw a churchie or someone else
with whom I disagreed doing something cool, I continued on in this
tradition. I also remember the things I liked about certain theories Hubbard
had and certain things I did- drills, auditing, and so on- that I really
liked.
Somewhere along the line, my identity as a non CofS Scn'ist (another term
I've used frequently) became more important than ...well, *me*. I can't be
this anymore. I can't be a label and, more importantly, I can't be *this*
label. My beliefs have wandered a bit too far afield for me to use it even
if I did want to be a label which is the reason it couldn't be *that* label.
I still have use for some Scn ideas but for quite some time now, I've been
interested in other ologies and isms. I have said so a few times here, too.
I think maybe one can be an heretical what-sis and still do that but I think
that in my case, I'm not an heretical Scientologist. I'm not any kind of
Scientologist.
This does not mean that I won't stop taking up for my FZ and indie friends
(not that I don't stick up for other people in the critic's scene- I do.) .
I will. I know some nice people in the FZ and, while I know some of you may
not agree with this, I think they're doing jut fine and are not hurting
themselves or anyone else. In fact, I think that Scientology can be
beneficial in some cases. Saying this doesn't make me a Scientologist any
more than the fact that I still watch Christian evangelist shows (I was very
excited a couple months ago when I found a Catholic channel on cable. I was
brought up Catholic. Mother Angelica rocks!) has made me go back to
Christianity. It hasn't. But I maintain that there's much beauty and truth
there and I don't have to be of that faith to see that. So that's about how
I feel about Scn.
I wrote a post on ESMB about prayer recently and I had a couple things
happen soon after I sort of sent up a plea. (prayer) I wasn't unhappy or
angst ridden but I knew some things needed to happen. As usual, the answers
to my prayers weren't what I expected. But that's always how it goes, isn't
it? So a couple things happened that were important. This is one of them. I
was pretty excited and pleased to get this idea as it does resolve some
things. But now I am feeling really weird. I guess I am struggling with it.
I am not questioning my stance. I know I'm an ex Scientologist. I'm just
struggling with coming to terms with that fact. I felt a lot more sprightly
about this Saturday. I may need some help with this and god help the person
who writes something along the lines of "I told you so" or "It's about time
you woke up"! Trust me on that one.
I hope that my Free Zone and indie friends won't be disappointed in me. I
rather think they'll be cool with it. The kind of people I make friends with
do not put conditions on their affection.
I will cap this by saying that not only am I not OSA, but I never was. Not
when I was in CofS, not when I considered myself to be a Freezoner and not
during my heretical indie term.
Claire Swazey
(fka Ball of Fluff, Fluffygirl, and currently the real Voltaire's Child)
realpch
I told you so!
It's about time you woke up!
: D
Ok, ok, just kidding.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Kat
wrote:
>
> I hope that my Free Zone and indie friends won't be disappointed in me. I
> rather think they'll be cool with it. The kind of people I make friends with
> do not put conditions on their affection.
Those are the best kinds of friends to make :)
Peter Schilte
wrote:
Claire, I have always respected you, whatever your believes were. That
will not change. No matter what.
Peter
tobyty...@yahoo.com
wrote:
You're a gutsy lady, Claire. And you are a walking definition of the
term "integrity."
Peace,
Toby
Magoo
"Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:scednbgqePf5eWXX...@posted.internetamerica...
>Claire,
I'm always for change, in any form, so congratulations. I doubt any of your
friends will be upset with this decision, esp. as they follow Hubbard and he
did say, "A thetan (spirit) has the ability (or was it right?) to change".
Enjoy your new journey! I couldn't agree more with you, there comes a time
when "you're___" (whatever that may be) becomes boring, and I'm sure nice to
shed. I have a magnet that helped me greatly,
when I first left Scientology, and still does, today:
just when the
caterpillar
thought the world was over,
it became
a butterfly
Enjoy the flight ~~
Tory/Magoo
Eldon
wrote:
Those are just lables when it comes down to it. You're a thoughtful
and intelligent you, whatever you want to call yourself.
Peter Schilte
> On Nov 9, 10:56 pm, "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com>
> Thomas and David Thomas to the only purpose to create upsets... Or did
> you mean OSA is better than you?
Bat shit crazy and every post she makes proves it.
Keep them coming, loon! Keep them coming!
And keep on proving how crazy your are!
BTW, what were you doing visiting my website? Do you read Dutch??
Peter
"Remember one thing, we are not running a business, we are
running a government.
We are in direct control of people's lives.
But for the first time we are not making victims of them,
we are making them more able.
So bring order into these
people's lives."
- HCO Secretary WW2
© 1975 L. Ron Hubbard Library
Hartley Patterson
> I'm not an heretical Scientologist. I'm not any kind of
> Scientologist.
/me takes out ARSCC categorisation board, prises out Fluffygirl square
marker, tries to force it into yet another round hole. Traps finger,
curses people who CAN'T MAKE THEIR MINDS UP.
:-)
--
FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
Religious Technology Center
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Android Cat
> Voltair...@ymail.com says:
>
>> I'm not an heretical Scientologist. I'm not any kind of
>> Scientologist.
>
> /me takes out ARSCC categorisation board, prises out Fluffygirl square
> marker, tries to force it into yet another round hole. Traps finger,
> curses people who CAN'T MAKE THEIR MINDS UP.
>
> :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JewlGsYxs
--
Ron of that ilk.
Android Cat
> Voltair...@ymail.com says:
>
>> I'm not an heretical Scientologist. I'm not any kind of
>> Scientologist.
>
> /me takes out ARSCC categorisation board, prises out Fluffygirl square
> marker, tries to force it into yet another round hole. Traps finger,
> curses people who CAN'T MAKE THEIR MINDS UP.
>
> :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JewlGsYxs
Skipper
Prayer works. Here's a tip for you from the Huna religion of Hawaii - a
belief that it must be fervent, something you can feel in your gut.
It's similar to the necessity for a "burning desire" as written about
by Napoleon Hill (Hubbard stole a good deal from Hill, and Tony Robbins
merely followed what Hill did starting out - I know this because I met
Tony at Celebrity Centre when he was still living in a Venice
apartment).
If you get into qigong you will find you're tapping into the same
thing, but long-term practitioners will tell you that no one really
knows what qi ("chi") is.
All Hubbard did was cobble together workable things, call it his own,
say he was Source (which he never explained, it was just his bullshit
to let you "dub in" what you thought it was - he wanted you to think he
was God). He deserved the insane ending to his life he got, and more.
Your struggle was probably that "it works" but you didn't like all the
other crap. Just know that anything you found there, that worked,
didn't come from the evil creep who cobbled it together.
Eldon
> In article <scednbgqePf5eWXXnZ2dnUVZ_sydn...@posted.internetamerica>,
Well, that's pretty eloquent, Skippy, and I think generally true.
However, you left out James Allen, who penned the momentous tome "As a
Man Thinketh" back in 1902.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_a_Man_Thinketh
"The book opens with the statement:
Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills: —
He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
Environment is but his looking-glass."
And of course, there's a wealth of "channeled" shit from the 1960s and
'70s including ACIM, Seth, Ramtha, Bashar, etc.
Just repeat after them: "I'm mocking it up." ;-)
Eldon
Oops! Typo there! I meant to type "labels." Hope your doppelganger
doesn't jump all over me about that. ;-)
Voltaire's Child
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:94b0d684-cbfa-4899...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Those are just lables when it comes down to it. You're a thoughtful
> > nad intelligent you, whatever you want to call yourself.
> Oops! Typo there! I meant to type "labels." Hope your >doppelganger
>doesn't jump all over me about that. ;-)
Oh, I knew what you meant.
Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Loved the youtube video, Ilky...
Skip, your points are interesting and eloquent, as always.
Peach- I *told* you not to tell me that! LOL! (a paraphrase of the famed
line from Get Smart)
So I'm feeling a bit more sprightly this a.m....I'ma gonna get me a pail o'
coffee...
Claire
Eldon
wrote:
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
Throw in a shot of Irish whiskey and top it with whipped cream. You
deserve a break today.
realpch
It's good not to have to carry a label that ya don't think fits anymore.
Viva la caffeine!
:-)
Astrid
wrote:
>
> Claire Swazey
> (fka Ball of Fluff, Fluffygirl, and currently the real Voltaire's Child)
If it's any consolation, for a few weeks, I think I had you confused
with your doppelganger/stalker! I didn't even pick up on that nutty
situation for a while.
So, dialog with the creator through prayer, not bothering with trying
to know its exact nature, keep it nebulous and open, and listen
inside, and subtract Xenu! Humble yourself before the magnificence,
suffering, and mystery of life and creation.
Reject Xenu, and all the control, secrecy, "data," money-sucking,
crawling Body Thetans, fraud, and paranoia it represents and ye shall
be saved, or at least ye shall not be a loon.
slobeck
<Voltair...@ymail.com> said:
Thanks, Claire for your thoughtful post. I also appreciate your taking
the time to kindly contact me about something that bothered you. It
showed tact and integrity. You know where I stand in my own situation
so I really appreciate your take on Scientology in general and even
TFT. You have a great open and critical mind that has the ability to
adapt and even be wrong from time to time.
Cheers,
G
t_shuffle
"Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in
message
news:scednbgqePf5eWXX...@posted.internetamerica
I've said some mean things to/about you in the past for which I'd like to
apologize. But I'm sure I'll do it again.
Eldon
> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:scednbgqePf5eWXX...@posted.internetamerica
You can always apologize again, innumerable times. And if you're real
nice, maybe Claire will give you a (chaste) touch assist.
Gregory Hall
news:d3098c5b-0ac9-452e...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> You're a gutsy lady, Claire. And you are a walking definition of the
> term "integrity."
You would be correct if, instead of the word "integrity," you would have
used the word, "vibrating."
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
>
> So I'm feeling a bit more sprightly this a.m....
> I'ma gonna get me a pail o'coffee...
>
> Claire
And, don't forget the fresh set of batteries . . .
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
I hope you return to your Catholic roots. At least attend church services
from time to time.
--
Gregory Hall
Magoo
"Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:scednbgqePf5eWXX...@posted.internetamerica...
As I posted on OCMB yesterday, I'm always for change, in any form, so
congratulations. I doubt any of your friends will be upset with this
decision, esp. as they follow Hubbard and he
did say, "A thetan (spirit) has the ability (or was it right?) to change".
Enjoy your new journey! I couldn't agree more with you, there comes a time
when "you're___" (whatever that may be) becomes boring, and I'm sure nice to
shed. I have a magnet that helped me greatly,
when I first left Scientology, and still does, today:
just when the
caterpillar
thought the world was over,
it became
a butterfly
Enjoy the flight ~~
Tory/Magoo
www.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44
PS:
Quote:
I will cap this by saying that not only am I not OSA, but I never was.
Not when I was in CofS, not when I considered myself to be a Freezoner and
not during my heretical indie term.
Claire,
I keep thinking about this above statement, so I decided to point something
out:
Ok, you say you never worked for OSA. The fact is you have supported the
very man, L. Ron Hubbard, (and probably still do) who
created the "Office of Special Affairs/"OSA"---after sending his wife, and
10 others to jail for doing what HE wrote the programs for. After doing
this, the "Office of Special Affairs" was created, and we all who were "in"
lived through Hubbard's flat out lies of how "Ron would *never* do such a
thing". He wrote the damned programs these people were jailed for!
Perhaps you haven't worked for or with OSA directly, but by supporting
Hubbard, imnsho, you were a part of the very machine he created, the same as
anyone else who was "in".
I'm glad for your change. I did work as a volunteer for OSA in PR, and have
written up extensively what I did. I hope more come out and tell
what they did, or experienced also, both for OSA---and for C of $, assisting
(even if by not saying anything, and supporting Hubbard and later Davey boy)
in their many abuses, thinking it was "The greatest good for the greatest
number of dynamics".
I think PG's (from OCMB) question is a good one:
What did bring you to this point of declaring you are no longer a
Scientologist? Perhaps you can shed some light that may help others, "in",
needing that little nudge or enlightenment.
My greatest thanks goes to Marc Headley and Nancy Many for their most recent
books, and detailed facts about what goes on, inside. These can be purchased
at:
www.blownforgood.com
and
www.mybillionyearcontract.com
Also, thanks to Marty and the gang who recently did the Interviews on
Nightline, and the many, many people before them who have spent years
exposing this insidious organization know as the "Church" of $cientology and
their many abuses. This same thanks goes to many of Anonymous who have also
done such fine work exposing these abuses.
The walls *are* tumbling D O W N. Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock, Time is on *our*
side, Davey boy.
My Best,
Tory/Magoo
www.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44
www.xenutv.com
www.xenu.net
To those lurking, Please Keep reading....make up your *own* minds :)
>
Voltaire's Child
"Astrid" <Astrid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5a699a4f-5bfe-45ba...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 8:56 pm, "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com>
wrote:
>
> Claire Swazey
> (fka Ball of Fluff, Fluffygirl, and currently the real Voltaire's Child)
> If it's any consolation, for a few weeks, I think I had you confused
> with your doppelganger/stalker! I didn't even pick up on that nutty
> situation for a while.
Yes, that's what she wants to have happen, probably.
> So, dialog with the creator through prayer, not bothering with trying
> to know its exact nature, keep it nebulous and open, and listen
> inside, and subtract Xenu! Humble yourself before the >magnificence,
>suffering, and mystery of life and creation.
I have been praying. Never really lost the habit, ya see.
:-)
>Reject Xenu, and all the control, secrecy, "data," money-sucking,
>crawling Body Thetans, fraud, and paranoia it represents and ye >shall
>be saved, or at least ye shall not be a loon.
A little looniness can be fun, but yeah, I agree with what you've said
here...
Cheers,
C
Jommy Cross
<Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in msg
<scednbgqePf5eWXX...@posted.internetamerica>:
<snip>
> I think
>that in my case, I'm not an heretical Scientologist. I'm not any kind of
>Scientologist.
There's a whole ocean out there. I'm glad you've decided to leave Hubbard's
tiny, polluted pool.
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
Voltaire's Child
"Gregory Hall" <greg...@home.fake> wrote in message
news:399069....@news.alt.net...
Apart from watching the Catholic cable channel, I probably won't. No Sunday
Masses, etc.
I'm leaning more toward Buddhism, but, again, I'm not going to restrict
myself to any one ology or ism. No one has a monopoly on the truth.
C
Voltaire's Child
"Jommy Cross" <jommycross@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:IQYA1SOP40...@reece.net.au...
>
> There's a whole ocean out there. I'm glad you've decided to leave
> Hubbard's
> tiny, polluted pool.
>
Sure. I'd been dipping in for a while- I hadn't been restricting myself to
Scn since I left CofS, but now I'm also done with the label...
C
Voltaire's Child
""Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS" <-earthl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:hdedfh$r2p$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Welcome I think to the real world then, Claire. If that's where you are,
> that is.
>
Hopefully not *too* real...where would be the fun in that?
C
Kat
wrote:
> "Gregory Hall" <gregh...@home.fake> wrote in message
>
> news:399069....@news.alt.net...
>
> > "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> >news:scednbgqePf5eWXX...@posted.internetamerica...
>
> > I hope you return to your Catholic roots. At least attend church services
> > from time to time.
>
> Apart from watching the Catholic cable channel, I probably won't. No Sunday
> Masses, etc.
>
> I'm leaning more toward Buddhism, but, again, I'm not going to restrict
> myself to any one ology or ism. No one has a monopoly on the truth.
>
> C
If you feel like a little variety, should check out unitarian
universalism. They pretty much recognize just about every major world
religion and focus on community, human compassion, personal happiness
through spiritualism etc. Buncha hippies, in other words :P It is at
least very interesting and educational as they allow for multiple
interpretations of the divine and how to worship. Very multicultural.
Voltaire's
> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> Claire,
>
> As I posted on OCMB yesterday, I'm always for change, in any form, so
> congratulations. I doubt any of your friends will be upset with this
> decision, esp. as they follow Hubbard and he
> did say, "A thetan (spirit) has the ability (or was it right?) to change".
Sure. And I've been doing so constantly.
>
> Enjoy your new journey! I couldn't agree more with you, there comes a time
> when "you're___" (whatever that may be) becomes boring, and I'm sure nice to
> shed. I have a magnet that helped me greatly,
> when I first left Scientology, and still does, today:
>
> just when the
> caterpillar
> thought the world was over,
> it became
> a butterfly
>
It is awesome. But a bit odd, a bit like having a tooth removed that
needed to come out, and having the soreness gone but there's still a
hole where that tooth was then eventually you get used to it and don't
notice it and don't feel like something's used to it.
> Enjoy the flight ~~
>
> Tory/Magoowww.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44
> PS:
>
> Quote:
> I will cap this by saying that not only am I not OSA, but I never was.
> Not when I was in CofS, not when I considered myself to be a Freezoner and
> not during my heretical indie term.
>
> Claire,
> I keep thinking about this above statement, so I decided to point something
> out:
> Ok, you say you never worked for OSA. The fact is you have supported the
> very man, L. Ron Hubbard, (and probably still do) who
> created the "Office of Special Affairs/"OSA"---after sending his wife, and
> 10 others to jail for doing what HE wrote the programs for. After doing
> this, the "Office of Special Affairs" was created, and we all who were "in"
> lived through Hubbard's flat out lies of how "Ron would *never* do such a
> thing". He wrote the damned programs these people were jailed for!
>
> Perhaps you haven't worked for or with OSA directly, but by supporting
> Hubbard, imnsho, you were a part of the very machine he created, the same as
> anyone else who was "in".
>
Well, no, not when I left- was still a Scn'ist by personal creed- and
was speaking out against OSA. One does not support entities when one
is speaking out against those very entities. Speaking out against
people and organizations is a motion and endeavor against those people
and organizations and, thus, the person can hardly be said to be
supporting them. I was accused by a number of people ~long~ ~after~
~I~ ~left~ ~CofS~ of being OSA. And every single one of those
particular people knew I was out of CofS, and expelled and declared. I
was an ex CofS member speaking out against the cult years before I
became an ex Scn'ist. The date I became an ex Scientologist was
November 7, 2009. the date I became an ex church member by my own
decision was August 2000 and the date of my goldenrod was August 9th
2001. So that gives us 8 years in between where I was speaking out
against the cult and at the same time considering self a non CofS
Scientologist.
And I don't regret for one second having been in CofS when I was. As
soon as I figured out I needed to leave, I left. If I inadvertently
furthered someone else's aims because I was lied to, well, that sucks,
and I ended up leaving, but I'm not one whit apologetic. The onus is
on them, not me.
> I'm glad for your change. I did work as a volunteer for OSA in PR, and have
> written up extensively what I did. I hope more come out and tell
> what they did, or experienced also, both for OSA---and for C of $, assisting
> (even if by not saying anything, and supporting Hubbard and later Davey boy)
> in their many abuses, thinking it was "The greatest good for the greatest
> number of dynamics".
>
> I think PG's (from OCMB) question is a good one:
> What did bring you to this point of declaring you are no longer aScientologist? Perhaps you can shed some light that may help others, "in",
> needing that little nudge or enlightenment.
It has been building up for a while. I have always been in touch with
and made good friends with really great people (some of whom post to
and/or lurk on a.r.s.-- y'all know who you are and if you feel like
weighing in, you can post about it on da thread. I'm not going to
single anyone out by naming them. It's up to y'all.) who were there
for me, didn't claim I was doing CofS' work (cuz, re someone who's
left and is speaking out, that would make zero sense whatsoever),
didn't yell at me, and just listened. At times I fancied I could hear
eyes gently rolling and if I asked them what they thought, they sure
told me- but it was fine an' dandy. So it had been building up-- I
was noticing that I was find some more points of disagreement with
Hubbard, still liking some of his ideas but, honestly, I could say
that about Catholicism and I'm not a Catholic, right? I also felt
something change for me after posting on and reading Marty Rathbun's
blog. I am not sure *why* that would be because, at the time, I wasn't
feeling too much disagreement with anything said there, yet, something
about the true believer thang was starting to grate on me, personally.
Not a problem for me that *they* had that phenom, but that I would be
like that, too. I realized I was not.
>
> My greatest thanks goes to Marc Headley and Nancy Many for their most recent
> books, and detailed facts about what goes on, inside. These can be purchased
> at:www.blownforgood.com
> andwww.mybillionyearcontract.com
Yes, I have both books along with John Duignan's and Bonnie Woods' new
book.
Claire
Voltaire's
>
Oooh! Sounds intriguing!! Thanks!
C
Hartley Patterson
> > If you feel like a little variety, should check out unitarian
> > universalism.
And I would say the Religious Society of Friends, but personally militant
agnosticism suits me fine at the moment.
--
"and the best part is that when they make it into
a movie, all of the stars can play themselves."
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Kat
wrote:
Aye, the Quakers are a really awesome bunch of people from the ones I
have met. Then again, I might be a little biased as many of my
relatives are Quaker. :P Their silent services aren't everyone's cup
of tea. Worth checking out tho if you want to try the spirituality
variety pack out.
t_shuffle
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b6e08883-f94d-4ae0...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com
I'm never real nice. Probably why I don't get many touch assists.
Voltaire's Child
"t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2IadnSUSzJdcHGbX...@giganews.com...
yeah, but I like you just fine.
:-)
Claire
Barbara loves Marty
wrote:
> ""Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS" <-earthligh...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:hdedfh$r2p$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > Welcome I think to the real world then, Claire. If that's where you are,
> > that is.
>
> Hopefully not *too* real...where would be the fun in that?
>
> C
I am not posting this to provoke you or start a fight with you,
Claire, but I knew already that you are not a Scientologist when I ran
into you on Usenet between 2002 and 2003.
What about John, your husband? Does he consider himself as
Scientologist?
Barbara Schwarz
Out_Of_The_Dark
wrote:
Welcome home, Claire :)
Mary McConnell
"God has editing rights over our prayers. He will... edit them,
correct them, bring them in line with His will and then hand them back
to us to be resubmitted. " ~Stephen Crotts
Voltaire's Child
>You're a gutsy lady, Claire. And you are a walking definition of the
> term "integrity."
Hi, Toby!
Long time no talk. Thank you for your reply. How are you doing?
Claire
Voltaire's Child
"Barbara loves Marty" <barbaralov...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:846d29c3-98f4-4c8d...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 11, 8:50 am, "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com>
wrote:
> ""Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS" <-earthligh...@hotmail.com> wrote
> in
> messagenews:hdedfh$r2p$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > Welcome I think to the real world then, Claire. If that's where you are,
> > that is.
>
> Hopefully not *too* real...where would be the fun in that?
>
> C
>I am not posting this to provoke you or start a fight with you,
>Claire, but I knew already that you are not a Scientologist when I ran
> into you on Usenet between 2002 and 2003.
Well, by creed, I was one. Just former CofS. But now the key word here is
"was".
> What about John, your husband? Does he consider himself as
> Scientologist?
Yes, he does. A non CofS one, since, as you know, they expelled him at the
same time as I. He does not approve of CofS in any way but probably could
be said to not have the same take on Scn as I.
You know that I've always striven (strove?) for total honesty.
C
slobeck
lives. It's very cool for a Christian church.
sl�
Barbara loves Marty
wrote:
> "Barbara loves Marty" <barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:846d29c3-98f4-4c8d...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
There is no ex-Scientologist, Claire. The person who understood it in
all details will never give it up for another or no religion.
Barbara Schwarz
Voltaire's Child
>There is no ex-Scientologist, Claire. The person who understood it >in
>all details will never give it up for another or no religion.
Well, *that* sure isn't true. Catholics make the same sort of claim about
their church, too.
And may I add what incredible sensitivity, tact and decency you've shown in
posting that.
Ick.
C
C
Voltaire's Child
"slobeck" <polym...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2009111212500050073-polymorphic@earthlinknet...
> my parents are Unitarian Universalist after being Episcopal their whole
> lives. It's very cool for a Christian church.
My Mom was devout Catholic but always talked about "God" as a god of love.
C
Dennis L Erlich
>My Mom was devout Catholic but always talked about "God" as a god of love.
I'm reminded of a passage from Joseph Heller, Catch-22 (1961), Chapter
18:
�And don�t tell me God works in mysterious ways,� Yossarian continued.
�There�s nothing so mysterious about it. He�s not working at all. He�s
playing. Or else he�s forgotten all about us. That�s the kind of God
you people talk about � a country bumpkin, a clumsy, bungling,
brainless, conceited, uncouth hayseed. Good God, how much reverence
can you have for a Supreme Being who finds it necessary to include
such phenomena as phlegm and tooth decay in His divine system of
creation? What in the world was running through that warped, evil,
scatalogical mind of His when He robbed old people of the power to
control their bowel movements? Why in the world did He ever create
pain?�
�Pain?� Lieutenant Scheisskopf�s wife pounced upon the word
victoriously. �Pain is a useful symptom. Pain is a warning to us of
bodily dangers.�
�And who created the dangers?� Yossarian demanded. He laughed
caustically. �Oh, He was really being charitable to us when He gave us
pain! Why couldn�t He have used a doorbell instead to notify us, or
one of his celestial choirs? Or a system of blue-and-red neon tubes
right in the middle of each person�s forehead. Any jukebox
manufacturer worth his salt could have done that. Why couldn�t He?�
�People would certainly look silly walking around with red neon tubes
in the middle of their foreheads.�
�They certainly look beautiful now writhing in agony or stupified with
morphine, don�t they? What a colossal, immortal blunderer! When you
consider the opportunity and power He had to really do a job, and then
look at the stupid, ugly little mess He made of it instead, His sheer
incompetence is almost staggering. It�s obvious He never met a
payroll. Why, no self-respecting businessman would hire a bungler like
Him as even a shipping clerk!�
Lieutenant Scheisskopf�s wife had turned ashen in disbelief and was
ogling him with alarm. �You�d better not talk that way about Him,
honey,� she warned him reprovingly in a low and hostile voice. �He
might punish you.�
�Isn�t He punishing me enough?� Yossarian snorted resentfully. �You
know, we certainly mustn�t let Him get away with it. Oh, no, we
certainly mustn�t let Him get away scot free for all the sorrow He�s
caused us. Someday I�m going to make him pay. I know when. On the
Judgement Day. Yes, that�s the day I�ll be close enough to reach out
and grab that little yokel by His neck and ��
�Stop it! Stop it!� Leiutenant Scheisskopf�s wife screamed suddenly,
and began beating him ineffectually about the head with both fists.
�Stop it!�
Yossarian ducked behind his arm for protection while she slammed away
at him in feminine fury for a few seconds, and then he caught her
determinedly by the wrists and forced her gently back down on the bed.
�What the hell are you getting so upset about?� he asked her
bewilderedly in a tone of contrite amusement. �I thought you didn�t
believe in God.�
�I don�t,� she sobbed, bursting violently into tears. �But the God I
don�t believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He�s not
the mean and stupid God you make Him out to be.�
Hartley Patterson
> ?I don?t,? she sobbed, bursting violently into tears. ?But the God I
> don?t believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He?s not
> the mean and stupid God you make Him out to be.?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionites
The Marcionites, an early 'path not followed' in Christianity, resolved
this one by assigning all the bad stuff to the Jewish God, who they
considered to be a separate, lesser being from the God of Jesus and St
Paul.
Christians nowadays mostly assign the 'bad guy' role to Satan, a fallen
angel, but that also fails to answer the question as to why an omnipotent
and good God would populate His Creation with imperfect beings who can do
evil deeds.
--
FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
Religious Technology Center
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Dennis L Erlich
><...> why an omnipotent
>and good God would populate His Creation with imperfect beings who can do
>evil deeds.
As a challenge and chance for us to perfect ourselves though
self-sacrifice and faith?
Just a wild guess.
D
Voltaire's
I remember Paramahansa Yogananda's thought (actually told to him in a
vision) where he was told "pain and suffering are whips to spur us on
to the divine." I don't buy that. I do think one CAN and SHOULD learn
from experiences, yes. And I often have. But I think intrinsically,
pain and suffering are bad.
C
Skipper
<1eabf4d9-ab87-429c...@u25g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Voltaire's <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote:
If he was correct, right now I'm probably Jesus. ;-)
Eldon
Some people seem to think suffering builds character, but I think most
of them are Christians.
Voltaire's
> In article
> <1eabf4d9-ab87-429c-ac7b-41a234e16...@u25g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
I have been suspecting this for quite some time now.
C
Voltaire's
That is definitely part of a number of Christian sects' mindset. But
it does seem to apply to Hinduism, as well.
Yrs truly disapproves.
C
Roger Larsson
If you are a master and control things nice your brain makes it out of
Karma.
The ones following a brain don't have to follow Karma. The master
brain don't have to be ones own.
The ones following a better brain than their own makes Karma no good.
Instead of going for the destiny anothers brain makes it as good.
Skipper
<6779570e-e26d-413a...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Roger Larsson <exin...@tiscali.se> wrote:
Roger, I'll stick with Pinky & The Brain, thank you.
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f6b4897b-72d7-4f96...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Examples?
Eldon
earthligh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
Well, "mortification of the flesh" is an obvious one, where people of
certain cultures parade through the streets flogging themselves and so
on. In the abstract sense, I think the belief that Jesus suffered and
died a gruesome death for all our sins provides ample encouragement of
emulation.
Voltaire's Child
were a Scn'ist" line of discussion specious.
"Voltaire's" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:d650165b-0d97-4b0b...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 10, 11:26 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> Claire,
>
> As I posted on OCMB yesterday, I'm always for change, in any form, so
> congratulations. I doubt any of your friends will be upset with this
> decision, esp. as they follow Hubbard and he
> did say, "A thetan (spirit) has the ability (or was it right?) to change".
Sure. And I've been doing so constantly.
>
> Enjoy your new journey! I couldn't agree more with you, there comes a time
> when "you're___" (whatever that may be) becomes boring, and I'm sure nice
> to
> shed. I have a magnet that helped me greatly,
> when I first left Scientology, and still does, today:
>
> just when the
> caterpillar
> thought the world was over,
> it became
> a butterfly
>
It is awesome. But a bit odd, a bit like having a tooth removed that
needed to come out, and having the soreness gone but there's still a
hole where that tooth was then eventually you get used to it and don't
notice it and don't feel like something's used to it.
> Enjoy the flight ~~
>
> Tory/Magoowww.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44
> PS:
>
> Quote:
> I will cap this by saying that not only am I not OSA, but I never was.
> Not when I was in CofS, not when I considered myself to be a Freezoner and
> not during my heretical indie term.
>
> Claire,
> I keep thinking about this above statement, so I decided to point
> something
> out:
> Ok, you say you never worked for OSA. The fact is you have supported the
> very man, L. Ron Hubbard, (and probably still do) who
> created the "Office of Special Affairs/"OSA"---after sending his wife, and
> 10 others to jail for doing what HE wrote the programs for. After doing
> this, the "Office of Special Affairs" was created, and we all who were
> "in"
> lived through Hubbard's flat out lies of how "Ron would *never* do such a
> thing". He wrote the damned programs these people were jailed for!
>
> Perhaps you haven't worked for or with OSA directly, but by supporting
> Hubbard, imnsho, you were a part of the very machine he created, the same
> as
> anyone else who was "in".
>
Well, no, not when I left- was still a Scn'ist by personal creed- and
was speaking out against OSA. One does not support entities when one
is speaking out against those very entities. Speaking out against
people and organizations is a motion and endeavor against those people
and organizations and, thus, the person can hardly be said to be
supporting them. I was accused by a number of people ~long~ ~after~
~I~ ~left~ ~CofS~ of being OSA. And every single one of those
particular people knew I was out of CofS, and expelled and declared. I
was an ex CofS member speaking out against the cult years before I
became an ex Scn'ist. The date I became an ex Scientologist was
November 7, 2009. the date I became an ex church member by my own
decision was August 2000 and the date of my goldenrod was August 9th
2001. So that gives us 8 years in between where I was speaking out
against the cult and at the same time considering self a non CofS
Scientologist.
And I don't regret for one second having been in CofS when I was. As
soon as I figured out I needed to leave, I left. If I inadvertently
furthered someone else's aims because I was lied to, well, that sucks,
and I ended up leaving, but I'm not one whit apologetic. The onus is
on them, not me.
> I'm glad for your change. I did work as a volunteer for OSA in PR, and
> have
> written up extensively what I did. I hope more come out and tell
> what they did, or experienced also, both for OSA---and for C of $,
> assisting
> (even if by not saying anything, and supporting Hubbard and later Davey
> boy)
> in their many abuses, thinking it was "The greatest good for the greatest
> number of dynamics".
>
> I think PG's (from OCMB) question is a good one:
> What did bring you to this point of declaring you are no longer
> aScientologist? Perhaps you can shed some light that may help others,
> "in",
> needing that little nudge or enlightenment.
It has been building up for a while. I have always been in touch with
and made good friends with really great people (some of whom post to
and/or lurk on a.r.s.-- y'all know who you are and if you feel like
weighing in, you can post about it on da thread. I'm not going to
single anyone out by naming them. It's up to y'all.) who were there
for me, didn't claim I was doing CofS' work (cuz, re someone who's
left and is speaking out, that would make zero sense whatsoever),
didn't yell at me, and just listened. At times I fancied I could hear
eyes gently rolling and if I asked them what they thought, they sure
told me- but it was fine an' dandy. So it had been building up-- I
was noticing that I was find some more points of disagreement with
Hubbard, still liking some of his ideas but, honestly, I could say
that about Catholicism and I'm not a Catholic, right? I also felt
something change for me after posting on and reading Marty Rathbun's
blog. I am not sure *why* that would be because, at the time, I wasn't
feeling too much disagreement with anything said there, yet, something
about the true believer thang was starting to grate on me, personally.
Not a problem for me that *they* had that phenom, but that I would be
like that, too. I realized I was not.
>
> My greatest thanks goes to Marc Headley and Nancy Many for their most
> recent
> books, and detailed facts about what goes on, inside. These can be
> purchased
> at:www.blownforgood.com
> andwww.mybillionyearcontract.com
Yes, I have both books along with John Duignan's and Bonnie Woods' new
book.
Claire
Voltaire's Child
""Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS" <-earthl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:hejieb$uqd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> news:xcidnVc9X7morZDW...@posted.internetamerica...
>> Bump to remind Tory that I find this "you were doing OSA's work because
>> you were a Scn'ist" line of discussion specious.
>
> coercive mind-control cult that first and foremost influenced you to blame
> anything or anyone BUT Scientology for its innate failures or abuses (aka
> "you pulled it in"), your assessment of whose 'work' a Scientologist
> performs is suspect at best.
No, it isn't. I've been questioning things since 1998 and I stood up to the
cult and left in 2000. In fact, I stood up to OSA about critics when I was
still in CofS during a number of "handlings".
And unlike Tory- I never was a volunteer with or for OSA. So I find her
comment there to be just a bit ironic.
>
> Being an individual did not enhance your 'use' of Scientology, but rather
> assisted you in departing the cult, with the possible jackboot assistance
> of being "declared".
>
>
The declare was a non issue as I'd left the cult a year prior. I'd
announceed it on a.r.s., as well. You were on the forum then, as I recall.
Claire
Eldon
wrote:
> ""Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS" <-earthligh...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:hejieb$uqd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> >news:xcidnVc9X7morZDW...@posted.internetamerica...
> >> Bump to remind Tory that I find this "you were doing OSA's work because
> >> you were a Scn'ist" line of discussion specious.
>
> > Actually, given that you have for a long time been involved with a
> > coercive mind-control cult that first and foremost influenced you to blame
> > anything or anyone BUT Scientology for its innate failures or abuses (aka
> > "you pulled it in"), your assessment of whose 'work' a Scientologist
> > performs is suspect at best.
>
> No, it isn't. I've been questioning things since 1998 and I stood up to the
> cult and left in 2000. In fact, I stood up to OSA about critics when I was
> still in CofS during a number of "handlings".
>
> And unlike Tory- I never was a volunteer with or for OSA. So I find her
> comment there to be just a bit ironic.
>
>
>
> > Being an individual did not enhance your 'use' of Scientology, but rather
> > assisted you in departing the cult, with the possible jackboot assistance
> > of being "declared".
>
> The declare was a non issue as I'd left the cult a year prior. I'd
> announceed it on a.r.s., as well. You were on the forum then, as I recall.
>
> Claire
You're donig just fine. I'd say about 90% deprogrammed and no problem
about the residual mindfuck. Why don't you post some more stuff on
Marty's blog BTW? I though your posts there were pretty good, and lots
of newly emerging "independents" read it. Not that I think the
independent movement will go anywhere, but it provides a diversion
from orthodox Scientology.
Voltaire's Child
> You're donig just fine. I
I think so. But I felt pretty good about what I'd been doing prior to this
latest thing, too, as I was questioning things about Scn as a Scn'ist when
very few church members and only a handful of Free Zoners were willing to do
so from their respective ideology perches...But this latest step is
definitely interesting. At first it felt like having a gap somewhere and
lately that's been a bit better. But at the same time, I was going through
OTHER changes about all sorts of life stuff. So I've been pretty emotional
lately.
>I'd say about 90% deprogrammed and no problem
>about the residual mindfuck.
I won't even argue there...I just think that's amusing.
>Why don't you post some more stuff on
>Marty's blog BTW? I though your posts there were pretty good, and >lots
>of newly emerging "independents" read it. Not that I think the
>independent movement will go anywhere, but it provides a >diversion
>from orthodox Scientology.
I probably should. I kinda lost interest and got busy due to other things
such as--
I am now one of the co moderator's of Geir Isene's new forum scnforum.org
and although I certainly have been posting in other places (like a.r.s. and
ESMB) , I've been directing a lot of my attention and energies there. I've
also been posting there a bit. I'd previously thought not to do too much of
that so as to not have any conflicts or discombobulation between my actions
as a mod and a contributor, but Geir has encouraged me to post a bit more so
I am.
I will drop in on Marty's blog at some point, soon, I'm sure. Now I have to
go and do my hair- always a somewhat time consuming task as it's nearly
waist-long now- and then get ready for Battle In the Kitchen (It's
Thanksgiving).
Claire