why Scientology hates the Internet
Dave Touretzky
Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
Scientology hates the Internet because Wikipedia has developed into a
giant glowing mass of entheta, with content that is highly ranked in
search engines and mirrored at several other sites.
Scientology hates the Internet because Xenu lives there.
Scientology hates the Internet because critic sites like Xenu.net
receive equal prominence with the cult's own web sites, thanks to
Google.
Scientology hates the Internet because ex-members it thought had been
"shuddered into silence" are finding their voices again. They've seen
a lot of the cult's dirty laundry, and they're no longer afraid to
talk about it.
Scientology hates the Internet because my E-Meter page is more
highly ranked in Google than their E-meter page.
Scientology hates the Internet because it will never forget Lisa
McPherson.
Scientology hates the Internet because, among an entire generation of
young people, anyone with enough brains to use a web browser quickly
learns the truth about L. Ron Hubbard.
Scientology hates the Internet because every book, magazine article,
or television program critical of Scientology has been resurrected and
made available worldwide, for free.
Scientology hates the Internet because kids on YouTube and YTMND
make fun of them without fear of retribution.
Scientology hates the Internet because it's destroying their
membership stats.
Scientology hates the Internet because their front groups like Applied
Scholastics and Narconon are exposed and thoroughly debunked there.
Scientology hates the Internet because they can't control it.
-- Dave Touretzky: fearless NOTs scholar extraordinaire.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
Dave Touretzky
Oh yes, coffeecup, I actively encourage people to learn about
Scientology. And I'm a very effective disseminator, as you know if
you've listened to some of my radio or TV appearances:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/Media
Unfortunately for Scientology, when *I* lead people to learn the lingo
and the belief system, they fail to approach the subject with the
reverence that LRH required. They view Scientology as a perverted,
wacky cult -- fun to learn about, but not something they'd ever spend
money on.
This Scientology bashin'
Sets DM's teeth a-gnashin'
The stats they are a-crashin'
As it all
falls
down!
Last one out of INT Base, turn out the lights.
-- Dave Touretzky: "Prozac never tasted so good."
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
Druac
Dave Touretzky
after I replied to it. So here it is again, reposted for posterity.
No wonder Scientology hates Usenet.
-- Dave Touretzky: "My server can beat up your server."
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
================================================================
Article: 2000886 of alt.religion.scientology
From: coff...@aussieisp.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: why Scientology hates the Internet
Date: 1 Sep 2006 16:50:25 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <1157154625....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
References: <44f8c280$1...@news2.lightlink.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.93.97.175
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1157154630 9579 127.0.0.1 (1 Sep 2006 23:50:30 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:50:30 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <44f8c280$1...@news2.lightlink.com>
User-Agent: G2/0.2
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; Crazy Browser 2.0.1),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=202.93.97.175;
posting-account=jm-ZJAwAAADNBU-qYWHvKFssXR8wcvuC
Path: news2.lightlink.com!news.lightlink.com!gail.ripco.com!newspeer.tds.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Xref: news2.lightlink.com alt.religion.scientology:2000886
Dave Touretzky wrote:
> Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
> terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
>
Hubbard originated the name 'XENU' and words like 'enturbulation'
and yet critics of the Co$ still promote the Church by using these
very same words. The critics are giving validitity to Hubbard's
claims. Why do they do this? I suspect a large number of them
are deep hidden 'scientologists' working hand-in-hand with
Scientology to either positively promote or negatively promote
the Church on the Internet. Knowing that the Internet, is a public
soup of low toned, ARCX beings, and using communication levels
corresponding with those as you would find on the 'HUBBARD
CHART OF HUMAN EVALUATION'. This game that scientologists
and to a lesser extent the Official Church of Scientology use on the
Internet, are all part-and-parcel of their technological understandings
of the human mind, and human spirit, the tone scale, the comm
line, Dianetics 55. You can promote Scientology in one of two ways,
either pro or anti; either way if you are using terms that
scientologists
use you are promoting it in some way. What an interesting exercise,
and experiment you are running here on the Internet, you pseudo-
church-critics. Even up to defending ECT and drugging patients with
neurotoxins. They understand that 'destructive' communications are
the only type of communication lines that low-toned beings work with,
can appreciate, and have any ARC with.
Skipper
<coff...@aussieisp.com> wrote:
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
>
> > Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
> > terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
> >
>
> Hubbard originated the name 'XENU' and words like 'enturbulation'
> and yet critics of the Co$ still promote the Church by using these
> very same words. The critics are giving validitity to Hubbard's
> claims. Why do they do this? I suspect a large number of them
> are deep hidden 'scientologists' working hand-in-hand with
> Scientology to either positively promote or negatively promote
> the Church on the Internet. Knowing that the Internet, is a public
> soup of low toned, ARCX beings, and using communication levels
> corresponding with those as you would find on the 'HUBBARD
> CHART OF HUMAN EVALUATION'. This game that scientologists
> and to a lesser extent the Official Church of Scientology use on the
> Internet, are all part-and-parcel of their technological understandings
> of the human mind, and human spirit, the tone scale, the comm
> line, Dianetics 55. You can promote Scientology in one of two ways,
> either pro or anti; either way if you are using terms that
> scientologists
> use you are promoting it in some way. What an interesting exercise,
> and experiment you are running here on the Internet, you pseudo-
> church-critics. Even up to defending ECT and drugging patients with
> neurotoxins. They understand that 'destructive' communications are
> the only type of communication lines that low-toned beings work with,
> can appreciate, and have any ARC with.
>
Do you wake up in the morning and push your crazy button, or is it just
permanently on?
Chip Gallo
The internet exists beyond the boundary of Hubbard think. He missed the
concept of shared electronic community in others' work, and wasn't smart
enough to think of it himself. Heinlein, for example, did imagine places
like the internet (see "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress").
Scientology, Inc. fears the internet as much as it hates it. It forces
them into an end game strategy, which even all their lawyers, guns and
money cannot win for them. The internet is a Fair Witness to these
organizational death throes and will broadly publish the epitaph.
Chip Gallo
Knowing How to Know is Knowing Where to Go:
http://Stop-Narconon.org/LeonaValley/briefing-book.pdf (74MB PDF)
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9363363/inside_scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/tomgorman/tommygorman.htm
http://www.xenu.net/
http://www.xenuTV.com
http://www.lermanet.com
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://whyaretheydead.net/
http://alley.ethercat.com/cgi-bin/door/door.cgi?11
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html
http://www.torymagoo.org/
zeeorger
> ...
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because my E-Meter page is more
> highly ranked in Google than their E-meter page.
>
Well your e-meter page (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/)
has humor, something usually lacking inside fenced perimeters.
This must be a happy PC on endorphin overload ...
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/kinky1.png
This must be Barbara Schwarz finding "Marty". Looks like
it was an extra long sec-check session, ropes and all ...
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/kinky2.png
Z
barbz
>> terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
>>
>
> and yet critics of the Co$ still promote the Church by using these
> very same words. The critics are giving validitity to Hubbard's
> claims. Why do they do this?
Because part of being human involves playing with language. It's fun.
Now, you might THINK we do it for the reason you give, but you're wrong.
We don't promote Scientology by using its jargon, we use the jargon
because it's amusing, and other critics also recognize and understand
the buzz words. Even The Simpsons have used the word 'enturbulate' on
one of their shows for the laugh factor. And before you bother telling
us the voice of Bart is a Scientologist, don't bother. The Movementarian
episode managed to take a slap at several cults at one time.
I suspect a large number of them
> are deep hidden 'scientologists' working hand-in-hand with
> Scientology to either positively promote or negatively promote
> the Church on the Internet. Knowing that the Internet, is a public
> soup of low toned, ARCX beings, and using communication levels
> corresponding with those as you would find on the 'HUBBARD
> CHART OF HUMAN EVALUATION'.
Oh, that's mighty nice of you. Discarding the millions of netizens as
low-toned, ARCX beings (talk about slinging the jargon,hah) must make
you feel real superior about yourself. Heh. Self delusion is another
human trait. Indulge at your own risk.
This game that scientologists
> and to a lesser extent the Official Church of Scientology use on the
> Internet, are all part-and-parcel of their technological understandings
> of the human mind, and human spirit, the tone scale, the comm
> line, Dianetics 55. You can promote Scientology in one of two ways,
> either pro or anti; either way if you are using terms that
> scientologists
> use you are promoting it in some way.
That's a load of baloney, as well as a contradiction. I think you need
to word-clear "promote."
What an interesting exercise,
> and experiment you are running here on the Internet, you pseudo-
> church-critics. Even up to defending ECT and drugging patients with
> neurotoxins. They understand that 'destructive' communications are
> the only type of communication lines that low-toned beings work with,
> can appreciate, and have any ARC with.
>
You sad little bean! Disagreeing with the Scientology shills who post
anti-psych crap isn't the same as defending psychiatry. Only a
thoroughly indoctrinated cult member would think that makes sense. But
then, like yourself, they're stuck in the 50s view of psychiatry shown
you by Hubbard. Visions of patients strapped down for shock treatments
dance in your indoctrinated head, and you think you're "thinking for
yourself" when you spew the Scientology view.
Ever wonder if people are laughing at you, or with you?
--
"I'm for the separation of church and hate."
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC(wdne)
xenu...@netscape.net
mackb...@yahoo.com
<snip>
Dave Touretzky objects to any probing question about:
1) How he obtains his funding
2) How he converts public monies
3) Why he uses university facilities for private business
4) His "smoke and mirrors" research
5) Racism
therefore he specializes in diverting attention away from things that
prompt agency oversight.
>-- Dave Touretzky
Beckyboo
Dave Touretzky wrote:
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because they can't control it.
>
Shouldn't this read that they can't control it as much as they used to?
They tried, right? Didn't they infiltrate Google and suppress searches?
That's what I heard.....
--
Becky
barbz
> On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Dave Touretzky objects to any probing question about:
cites, please? I haven't seen him object to probing questions from
relevant questioners, i.e. not some cult doofus scraping up DA material.
>
> 1) How he obtains his funding
> 2) How he converts public monies
> 3) Why he uses university facilities for private business
> 4) His "smoke and mirrors" research
> 5) Racism
>
> therefore he specializes in diverting attention away from things that
> prompt agency oversight.
Funny you should mention "diverting attention" away from things, being
as how you're doing it right here, right now.
How about them Scientology frauds disguised as social programs?
How about the cult practicing medicine without a license?
HOW ABOUT THAT BODY COUNT?
>
>> -- Dave Touretzky
Lermanet.com
>On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>
><snip>
I have a question for the once human being behind the nick
mackb...@yahoo.com
Are you of the informed belief that you were a Nazi in your last
lifetime?
Scientologists Claiming to NAZI's in their past lives
I never did, however I do recall many of the scientology execs in the
70's would actually brag that they were Nazi's in their last
lifetimes.. it was so commonly known, and there were so many,that I
did keep track of who was claiming to be whom last time around. They
seemed to always get the promotions..
FACT: Judges have noted the similarity of Scientology to the NAZI's"
"The judge, Mr Justice Latey, said that the tactics used by Hubbard
and his helpers are "grimly reminiscent of the ranting and bullying of
Hitler and his henchmen". citation:
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/england/the-mail-uk.htm
FACT:
It has been observed that Scientology EXECUTIVES like dressing up as
Nazis:
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/clearwatersun/sun-nazi-1279.htm
FACT:
And they still do: from an email August 29th 2006 "Did you know that
RTC Reps now wear all black uniforms in public? Groups of them walking
in Clearwater look exactly like SS Storm troopers, and I believe the
effect is intentional. They strike fear into staff as they approach"
This is the uniform of the Church of the FINAL PROCESS..founded by
renegade scientologists, whose magazine ran Charles Manson on its
front cover, all they have to add now are the black German shepherds
on chain leashes like the Process. And Charles Manson had a
Scientology E-meter at the Spahn Ranch
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20181
FACT:
After Scientology raided this authors home, in 1995 for posting the
story of XENU to the net that recently appeared on south park a HQ
staff member reported that at the time:
Arnie, just so you know, within a couple or a few days after the raid
on your house, Warren and Davey did a briefing to the Int base with an
entire slide show of the raid. Both Warren and Dave were bragging
about this event to the base. They were really trying to show us that
RTC had the power to basically do whatever the hell they wanted and
that the law would back them up. I was shocked about how they went
about treating you and the methods they used. Like SS Storm troopers -
exactly. What did I get out of this briefing and event? Besides
feeling sick to my stomach and wondering if I still lived in the
USofA, I realized that $cn will completely roll over any civil
liberties and freedoms without even batting an eye. Glad to see you're
still hanging in there man!
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20184&postorder=asc
Is anyone willing to go on the record admitting this?
Answers received so far:
Scamology@gmail wrote:
1) Gary Epstein, when he was the CO at AOLA, bragged he was a Nazi in
his last life time. That may have been where it became permissible for
other staff below him to do it.
2) On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:56:57 -0400, Ed <met...@aol.com> wrote:
I knew two guys in the late '60s who joined the SO as college
freshmen, and both said they were Germans in the last war, I don't
know how much Nazi/SS. One said he was Rommel. Wendell Reynolds
was friends with these guys. The other two didn't last, as far as I
know.
Ed
from email received:
3) Clearwater Chiropractor and Scientology OT7 Jimmy Gatza told Creed
Pearson, on the Bell air Country Club golf course that he Jimmy Gatza
was a Nazi in his last lifetime.
4) His wife, Julie Gatza also believed that she was a Nazi in her
prior
lifetime...
5) http://www.lermanet.com/michaelpattinson/index.htm
It was not a pleasant factor, too, that my course supervisor,
Jean-Pierre Vogel, was often telling me he discovered he was a Nazi in
his immediate past life!
6) http://www.lermanet.com/exit/prisoner.htm
He was convinced he had been a Nazi tank commander in his past life
and had run over people with a tank and enjoyed it.
7) From nickname Whitedove on OCMB chat board at Xenu.net
(SO = Sea Organization)
"When I was in the SO one woman that was working with me told me once
that she had these 'pictures' from a past life and believed she had
been in WWII in her past life and was a Nazi!!!!
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20542
EX-Scientologists Apologize for being as a scientologist, like a Nazi:
FACT: GARY WEBER
http://www.lermanet.com/garyweber/index.htm
"I'm sorry to say I was a part of this Scientology Gestapo
organization and probably felt much like the Nazi Youth did in pre-war
Germany, full of hope, our heads filled with great promises, and
willing to do anything for the "Fuehrer.""
FACT: CREED PEARSON
http://www.lermanet.com/creed-pearson/index6.htm
Essentially, the Nazi concepts are now Scientology realities. Only
The names and uniforms have changed
Sworn Testimony of Ex-Scientologists that the secret armed military
organization hidden by fake religious cloaking, and barbed wire and
security cameras**over 150 cameras on the public in the city of
Clearwater alone - Testimony of Scientology's security staff in front
of Judge Pennick.
Scientologist Eddie Walters: "When I disagreed with these "Gestapo
type tactics" he told me that these
orders came "directly from Los Angeles"
http://www.lermanet.com/barwell/edward-walters-affidavit.txt
This was echoed this week by one disenchanted teenage Scientologist
who told The Mail on Sunday that Hubbard's young acolytes "behave like
the Nazi youth". This is his story." Cit:
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/england/sundaytimes-magazine-scientology.htm
"Some of them act like the Nazi youth," Cit:
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/england/the-mail-uk.htm
" "It was like "Lord of The Flies," said Mayo. "The kids - fanatics,
all of them - had taken over."
From the Odd's-n-Ends Department of Lermanet.com
Another man who self described himself as "The man behind Hitler" was
a mystic named Meister Echkart,.. who introduced an idea called
Istigkeit...
In Aldous Huxley's 1954 (c) of the "Doors of Perception"
from page 17...I quote:
"Istigkeit...
---wasn't that the word Meister Eckhart liked to use? "Is-ness."
(I thought Hubbard cooked up the word Is-ness..)
Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our
finest asset and gives us more protection than any other
single thing. If certain parties thought we were real we
would have infinitely more trouble. There's actual terror
in the breast of a guilty person at the thought of OT, and
without a public incredulity we never would have gotten as
far as we have. And now it's too late to be stopped. This
protection was accidental but it serves us very well
indeed. Remember that the next time the ignorant scoff. L Ron Hubbard
http://www.lermanet2.com/barwell/ignorant-scoff.txt
Godwin's Law states that whomever accuses the other side of being a
Nazi loses the argument, and Yes normally this would be correct,
however scientology has constantly claimed that many people on the
forefront of the anti-cult movement are "nazis". So I think it is just
fair to point out that many high level Scientologists claim to have
been Nazi's in a previous lifetime and I knew mike Godwin at EFF, EFF
helped a great deal locating counsel during the beginning of RTC vs
Lerma.
"Why do you think the GERMANS banned Scientology? Because they
know Nazis when they see them. Better than any other European
nation... " ( a reporter at a major US newspaper)
Scientologists are convinced that they helping to make a better world.
A world free of crime, insanity and drugs... Those that sent the
jews, gypsies into the german ( called rehabilitation camps in the
beginning) death camps thought they were helping to make a better
world too.
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
6045 N 26th Road
Arlington VA 22207
703 241 1498
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speake
If the Borg were to breed with the Ferengi you'd get Scientology!
29 November 1995 - Memorandum Opinion Judge Leonie Brinkema
"the Court is now convinced that the primary motivation of RTC in suing Lerma, DGS and The Post is to stifle criticism of Scientology in general and to harass its critics. "
The internet is the Liberty Tree
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com
http://www.lermanet.com/idacamburn/cultsandkids.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/faqs.html#psychiatry
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist4.htm
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/
both with IMAGES!!
"Scientologists believe that most human problems
can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial
people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million
years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters"
to individuals in the contemporary world, causing
spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives
of their hosts"
[Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion]
What do we get from getting people out of scientology?
We create an individual who has become a Houdini of
all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again.
People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental
traps..
We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being
who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains
of all.
Those forged of lies. (c) Arnaldo Lerma
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
vinny
mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Dave Touretzky objects to any probing question about:
He doesn't object, he just gets all loopy. As if wasting his time
spewing to his little group of anti-social critics is productive to
such an advanced being.
> 1) How he obtains his funding
> 2) How he converts public monies
> 3) Why he uses university facilities for private business
> 4) His "smoke and mirrors" research
> 5) Racism
Each of these deserve a paragraph or more, though wasting my time on
his silly attempts on legitimacy wouldn't be worth it. He's a crook who
finds cracks in the system.
> therefore he specializes in diverting attention away from things that
> prompt agency oversight.
Yep. A junkie for proving himself right in the face of extreme and
obvious error. It is so easy to tell when he panics too. Glad I'm not
one of the people who do all his work for him.
Vinny
vinny
Dave Touretzky wrote:
...
> Scientology hates the Internet because they can't control it.
> -- Dave Touretzky
As usual, half truths and points of little significance blown out of
proportion.
And as usual, a person who doesn't understand the big picture
pretending to be an expert getting lost in the trees...but being very
self important while doing it.
My feeling is that the group of Scientology loves anything that
provides real communication. The internet? I couln't get along without
it.
Vinny
Android Cat
> Vinny
Hi "Patty" <patricia_...@hotmail.com>
Why do you use so many anonymizing proxies to post when they don't do any
good?
--
Ron of that ilk.
vinny
> On 2 Sep 2006 07:55:41 -0700, mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> Godwin's Law states that whomever accuses the other side of being a
> Nazi loses the argument, and Yes normally this would be correct,
> however scientology has constantly claimed that many people on the
> forefront of the anti-cult movement are "nazis". So I think it is just
> fair to point out that many high level Scientologists claim to have
> been Nazi's in a previous lifetime and I knew mike Godwin at EFF, EFF
> helped a great deal locating counsel during the beginning of RTC vs
> Lerma.
A lot of good that did you loser. Perhaps Mike Godwin knowing you is
why you go from trouble to useless victim status.
Jeez its hard to read through yourr drivel. There can be no
significance of someone saying something about their past life
behavior, especially compared with your present life behavior in the
same category. You aren't even good at hiding the occasion(s) of your
sin.
Amazing how you can even make your non-sequitors insignificant. Sad to
see someone caught inside a bottle and wasting away in your own slime.
>
> "Why do you think the GERMANS banned Scientology? Because they
> know Nazis when they see them. Better than any other European
> nation... " ( a reporter at a major US newspaper)
How surprising to find a lie in one of your hopeless posts. Banned, eh?
What? Troops going to stop me from practicing Scientology in Germany?
Not even a good lie, though a good Koos impersonation nut case.
> Scientologists are convinced that they helping to make a better world.
> A world free of crime, insanity and drugs... Those that sent the
> jews, gypsies into the german ( called rehabilitation camps in the
> beginning) death camps thought they were helping to make a better
> world too.
You speak of Godwin's Law and make a stupid stretch like that? You of
the 20 minute sig? You're as much as fool as I am for wasting my time
trying to read your gibberish.
Vinny
barbz
If you think that, you're grievously underinformed, "vinny." Scientology
hates the internet, but they do their feeble best to profit from it.
banchukita
What else do you do on the internet besides post psych spam and ad
hominem attacks to try to drown out rational discourse about
Scientology?
Have you seen http://alley.ethercat.com/door/ ?
Are you allowed to view what's on xenu.net?
-maggie, human being
>
> Vinny
Beckyboo
vinny wrote:
> mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Dave Touretzky objects to any probing question about:
>
> He doesn't object, he just gets all loopy. As if wasting his time
> spewing to his little group of anti-social critics is productive to
> such an advanced being.
Maybe *you* need to put down your fruit loops pal?
You're taking Dave's posts a little too personally for my taste, that
sets off red flags for sure. Instead of attacking the person, let's see
you come up with some intelligent discussion to dispute whatever he's
posted here. And, since you've mentioned the Internet also.... let's
see some links. I see plenty of links from the critics. I haven't seen
one from "vinny". Why is that?
--
Becky
Lermanet.com
wrote:
>Lermanet.com wrote:
>> On 2 Sep 2006 07:55:41 -0700, mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>> >
>> ><snip>
>...
>> Godwin's Law states that whomever accuses the other side of being a
>> Nazi loses the argument, and Yes normally this would be correct,
>> however scientology has constantly claimed that many people on the
>> forefront of the anti-cult movement are "nazis". So I think it is just
>> fair to point out that many high level Scientologists claim to have
>> been Nazi's in a previous lifetime and I knew mike Godwin at EFF, EFF
>> helped a great deal locating counsel during the beginning of RTC vs
>> Lerma.
>
>A lot of good that did you loser. Perhaps Mike Godwin knowing you is
>why you go from trouble to useless victim status.
>
TR-1
Your own ranting and bullying technques are grimly reminiscent of
Hitler and his bullies
Answers received so far:
Scamology@gmail wrote:
was friends with these guys. The other two didn't last, as far as i
know.
Ed
from email received:
3) Clearwater Chiropractor and Scientology OT7 Jimmy Gatza told Creed
Pearson, on the Bell air Country Club golf course that he Jimmy Gatza
was a Nazi in his last lifetime.
4) His wife, Julie Gatza also believed that she was a Nazi in her
prior
lifetime...
5) http://www.lermanet.com/michaelpattinson/index.htm
It was not a pleasant factor, too, that my course supervisor,
Jean-Pierre Vogel, was often telling me he discovered he was a Nazi in
his immediate past life!
6) http://www.lermanet.com/exit/prisoner.htm
He was convinced he had been a Nazi tank commander in his past life
and had run over people with a tank and enjoyed it.
7) Whitedove wrote on ocmb:
I had a flash while reading this thread.
When I was in the SO one woman that was working with me told me once
that she had these 'pictures' from a past life and believed she had
been in WWII in her past life and was a Nazi!!!!
8) http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20542
Kokaburra wrote on ocmb:
I have known a couple clear cut instances of ex Nazi's or Nazi valence
in Scn. The first was a person I knew very well in the 70s and 80s. He
had clear recollection of being in the SS, loved playing war games,
and seemed to feel that the SS was a high status group. He told me how
impressed he had been by an SO mission who had come marching into the
org in their uniforms and basically taken command of the place. Later
on in the early 80s he spoke with relish of some of the Scn executive
practices of "face ripping" and "severe reality adjustments" which
were in vogue at the time. The other incident I clearly remember was
an SO missionaire coming to our org and removing the ED from post and
replacing him with another staff member. He stomped around and
shouted, made staff stand at attention etc and was dressed exactly
like a Nazi officer with greatcoat and all. It was absolutely creepy.
He also posted guards outside the outgoing EDs apartment to make sure
he didn't blow before he was escorted to the CLO for his comm ev.
(This must have been great PR in that apartment block!) The whole
scenario was so traumatic that the EDs wife had a miscarriage.
So, yeah, now that I think of it Arnie, you have made quite the
point."
9) Your story form inside scientology will be posted here
from page 17...I quote:
http://www.lermanet2.com/barwell/ignorant-scoff.txt
Godwin's Law states that whomever accuses the other side of being a
Nazi loses the argument, and Yes normally this would be correct,
however scientology has constantly claimed that many people on the
forefront of the anti-cult movement are "nazis". So I think it is just
fair to point out that many high level Scientologists claim to have
been Nazi's in a previous lifetime and I knew mike Godwin at EFF, EFF
helped a great deal locating counsel during the beginning of RTC vs
Lerma.
"Why do you think the GERMANS banned Scientology? Because they
know Nazis when they see them. Better than any other European
nation... " ( a reporter at a major US newspaper)
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com
wrote:
Were you to use the same persistence examining Hubbard you would find
that you have made a grave error in judgment.
mackb...@yahoo.com
>
>Oh yes, coffeecup, I actively encourage people to learn about
>Scientology. And I'm a very effective disseminator, as you know if
>you've listened to some of my radio or TV appearances:
<snip>
I have listened and watched a few.
You aren't very compelling.
Your arguments are aimed at an audience level that is inclined toward a
kind of hypnotic familiarity. I guess that's progress of a sort
except they are subject to manipulation by the next talking head that
gets them to look at a shinny object. Probably best for you to declare
victory now, at peak performance levels, and retire.
--Mack
mackb...@yahoo.com
>>On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>
> I have a question for the once human being behind the nick
>mackb...@yahoo.com
<snip>
Arnie, thanks for your reply.
We'll get into the more complex issues if you can correctly answer the
following:
Who's on first?
--Mack
Lermanet.com
Lawrence Tapper??
SCIENTOLOGY PLOT TO SMEAR OFFICIAL
by RICHARD WEST
Times Staff Writer
The woman would be "very tough," "obviously pregnant" and a "good
actress." She would storm into the Sacramento office of the state
attorney general, the boas of Deputy Atty. Gen. Lawrence Tapper of Los
Angeles.
"I told Larry I wouldn't do this but he gave me no choise (sic)," she
would shout, following the "Operation Snapper" scenario written for
her by someone connected with the Church of Scientology in Los
Angeles.
"I don't care about his career anymore! I mean look at me! I'll go to
the press even if it does ruin my family's reputation. I won't have an
abortion! "
Then she would stalk out of the office saying, "Oh, never mind, no one
will help me anyway."
That scene was to be one of several embarrassing incidents in
Operation Snapper to smear Tapper, who as head of the attorney
general's charitable trust unit had been inv tiing complaints against
the Church of Scientology.
Others were to be calls to the at-torney general's office from the
outraged "father" of the pregnant woman, a visit to the office by a
take nun to accuse Tapper of religious bias and a scheme to deposit
"payoff" money into Tapper's bank account.
The plot was made public here by Henrietta Crampton of Redondo
Beach, secretary of the Citizens Freedom Foundation, a group made up
of several thousand parents whose children have been enticed into
religious cults.
Crampton dug out the scheme against Tapper from documents
seized three years ago during FBI rraids at Church years Scientology
offices in Los Angeles. The documents were obtained under Freedom of
Information Act by Paulette Cooper, author of The Scandal of
Scientology" book.
A spokesman for the attorney general's office said Thursday. that
Tapper had no comment on the plot at this time because he and other
public officials are being sued for $1 million by the Church of
Scientology for alleged illegal infiltration of its operations.
However, Heber Jentzsch, director of public relations for the church
here, said the plot consitutited nothing more than "unauthorized
pranks of which we have no evidence were ever carried out."
Jentzsch said the scenarios for embarrassing Tapper "were written
years ago by an individual subsequently removed from any position of
responsibility" in the church.
Crampton, though, said she believes "that at least the pregnant woman
idea had been carried out" against the deputy attorney general.
She said that when she telephoned Tapper to Feb. 29 to ask him if he
knew about the scheme, he asked her, "Does it involve a pregnant
woman?"
Crampton said she had assumed the FBI would have told Tapper or
someone in the attorney general's office about the plot, but that
during their phone conversation he appeared "dumbfounded" over the
extent of the scheme.
"You mean, you have all that on paper?" Crampton quoted Tapper as
saying. I certainly do-right out of the Scientology files," she
replied.
"You've made my weekend," Tapper exclaimed, according to Crampton He
then asked her to send copies at the documents to him, she added,
which she did two days later.
The nun scenario involved the sending of a woman dressed in a nun's
habit to the attorney general's office. While the nun is asking the
receptionist how she goes about filing a complaint against someone in
the office, an accomplice posing as a news photographer comes up.
"Holy Cow!" the photographer cries as he hears the nun's query.
"VVhat a story. Excuse me, sister, I couldn't help overhearing you,
are you filing a complaint?"
The scenario continues:
Pressure is quickly put on the nun, forcing her to is quickly....
stammer out...'He uses his position to attack anything that's not
Jewish....Well if you must know, It's Lawrence Tapper. Oh, I shouldn't
have said that." hat'
As the photographer takes her picture, the document goes on, "Nun .
covers her face completely, She says please don't. Not Oh God. I
shouldn't hav come here. Nun leaves very upset. Photographer asks
receptionist who was that ... and leaves."
The document then calls for the sending of the photograph with an
article to minority newspapers and telephone calls to the "bigger
papers to see if they would be interested. `The article will cast
aspersions on the charity fraud area and Tapper." the document says.
I In the payoff scheme, according to the documents, a "30-year-old
tough looking male" would be recruited to go Tapper's bank and deposit
five 20 bills into his account under the name of a man "who just got
busted for dealing in drugs."-
A receipt of the transaction would be delivered to the attorney
general, then Evelle Younger, by "an update banker type male, who
would leave without giving his name.
Multipage TIF image file of microfiche suitable for evidenciary use is
HERE
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/latimes/operation-tapper.tif
Howard
Here's one that might elicit an on topic response...
See URL:
http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.htm
A French court this week handed down guilty verdicts and sentences
for Marseilles Scientologists now convicted of fraud. From Reuters,
on November 15th:
"A French court on Monday jailed a former leader of the Church of
Scientology for six months, with a further 18 months suspended, for
fraud. Xavier Delamare, an ex-leader of the church in southeastern
France, was also fined 100,000 francs ($15,750). Five other members
of the church were given suspended sentences ranging from six months
to a year. One of the defendants, who has turned against the group
and accused Delamare of sending him on shady fundraising missions,
was cleared.
"The seven Scientologists went on trial last September on charges of
fraud, violence and illegally practising medicine in connection with
courses in spiritual purification organised for church members."
"Delamare's lawyer Jean-Yves Le Borgne said after the verdict that
the proceedings had smacked of lynch law. The trial was marred by
the disappearance of legal evidence, which authorities blamed on a
court clerk's mistake. Legal documents that could have been used as
evidence against the movement in two other cases have also gone
missing."
>From Agence France Presse on November 15th:
"Prosecutors in the case had sought stiffer sentences against the
defendants, arguing that 'beneath the religion there is a clear,
institutionalised business drift' in which church officials
practised 'mental manipulation' to extort money from people with
problems. They cited as one example sessions offered by the church
at 200 dollars an hour for people wishing to expiate themselves of
dark moments of their existence. The sessions, described as a sort
of pseudo-psychoanalysis, threatened the health of people with 'real
psychological problems,' prosecutors said.
"Delamare specifically was found guilty of manipulating a
34-year-old man with psychological problems into abandoning his
medical treatment in favour of a vitamin cure. The man in addition
was encouraged to borrow 30,000 francs from his bank to purchase an
'electrometre' supposed to detect areas where he was feeling
stressed. The man ended up in a psychiatric clinic. So-called
purification sessions offered by the church and costing between
2,000 and 24,000 dollars were also described as 'worthless' and
proof of a 'monstruous swindle' by prosecutors."
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 1 Sep 2006 20:18:54 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>>
>>Oh yes, coffeecup, I actively encourage people to learn about
>>Scientology. And I'm a very effective disseminator, as you know if
>>you've listened to some of my radio or TV appearances:
>
> <snip>
>
> I have listened and watched a few.
>
> You aren't very compelling.
[..]
> Probably best for you to declare
> victory now, at peak performance levels, and retire.
>
> --Mack
Yeah, invalidate, Invalidate, INVALIDATE!!!!!!!!!!
It's going to start working soon, isn't it?
(why isn't it working?? - you must be doing it wrong! do it some more!!)
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mdk Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"His eyes fell on me like a stone-mason's chissel" Cowboy Junkies
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFE+qmwimJs3AlyPBIRAk0zAJ9ig18Co9mOp6HA0LNFdWm/mzkoaQCfegTl
LfQ/VGuonzoNT0qhrVMRmRQ=
=pRc/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
barbz
Your message to Dave says
1. you aren't very effective
2. quit now
You wouldn't be a Scientologist, by any chance, would you, "Mack?"
MackBuckler
wrote:
Barb, you're pretty sharp, probably one of the most literate
participants in this ng . How do you assess television/talk radio
producers' aims when it comes to message delivery to their audiences -
particularly from a marketing standpoint?
As far as Dave's performance levels are concerned I would say the
audience draw is the topic not his charisma.
--Mack
MackBuckler
>Beckyboo wrote:
>>
>> vinny wrote:
>> > mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > > On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > <snip>
>> > >
>> > > Dave Touretzky objects to any probing question about:
>> >
>> > He doesn't object, he just gets all loopy. As if wasting his time
>> > spewing to his little group of anti-social critics is productive to
>> > such an advanced being.
>>
>> Maybe *you* need to put down your fruit loops pal?
>>
>> You're taking Dave's posts a little too personally for my taste, that
>> sets off red flags for sure. Instead of attacking the person, let's see
>> you come up with some intelligent discussion to dispute whatever he's
>> posted here. And, since you've mentioned the Internet also.... let's
>> see some links. I see plenty of links from the critics. I haven't seen
>> one from "vinny". Why is that?
>>
>
>Here's one that might elicit an on topic response...
>
>See URL:
>
>http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.htm
<snip>
This thing is a couple months short of being seven years old. Time is
relevant as well as subject matter.
>Howard
--Mack
MackBuckler
<Arnie...@Lermanet.COM> wrote:
>On 2 Sep 2006 22:51:21 -0700, mackb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>Re: why Scientology hates the Internet
>>
>>>>On 1 Sep 2006 19:30:08 -0400, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>
>>> I have a question for the once human being behind the nick
>>>mackb...@yahoo.com
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>Arnie, thanks for your reply.
>>
>>We'll get into the more complex issues if you can correctly answer the
>>following:
>>
>>Who's on first?
>>
>>--Mack
>
> Lawrence Tapper??
Actually, no.
"Well, let's see, we have on the bags, Who's on first..."
-- Bud Abbott
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor4.shtml
--Mack
<snip>
barbz
a researcher, he'd be a media slut like, oh, I dunno...TOM CRUISE?
The fact is, critical Scientology material sells. People eat it up,
astonished that such a destructive organization is allowed to operate
outside the law right here in the US.
It's as fascinating as Heaven's Gate. Waco. The People's Temple.
A group that has a long history of human rights abuses, feeble efforts
to suppress the free speech rights of others, a prison camp, a toy Navy,
and a huge paper trail of nasty tricks and a body count.
Magazines that have had articles profiling Scientology report a large
spike in sales. Yep, Scientology sells. Just not the way they think it
should...
barbz
Howard
Oh yes, "we don't do that any more" - response number three from the
'Bumper Fun Book of OSA Deflections'.
What actually matters most is whether corporate/organisational
behaviour changes.
I see no sign of that in the CoS. Do you?
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
Playfullminx
Dave Touretzky wrote:
> coff...@aussiesip.com appears to have deleted his own posting soon
> after I replied to it. So here it is again, reposted for posterity.
>
> No wonder Scientology hates Usenet.
>
> -- Dave Touretzky: "My server can beat up your server."
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
>
> ================================================================
>
> Article: 2000886 of alt.religion.scientology
> From: coff...@aussieisp.com
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Subject: Re: why Scientology hates the Internet
> Date: 1 Sep 2006 16:50:25 -0700
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Lines: 30
> Message-ID: <1157154625....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>
> References: <44f8c280$1...@news2.lightlink.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.93.97.175
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> X-Trace: posting.google.com 1157154630 9579 127.0.0.1 (1 Sep 2006 23:50:30 GMT)
> X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:50:30 +0000 (UTC)
> In-Reply-To: <44f8c280$1...@news2.lightlink.com>
> User-Agent: G2/0.2
> X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; Crazy Browser 2.0.1),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Injection-Info: m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=202.93.97.175;
> posting-account=jm-ZJAwAAADNBU-qYWHvKFssXR8wcvuC
> Path: news2.lightlink.com!news.lightlink.com!gail.ripco.com!newspeer.tds.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
> Xref: news2.lightlink.com alt.religion.scientology:2000886
>
>
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
>
> > Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
> > terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
> >
>
> Hubbard originated the name 'XENU' and words like 'enturbulation'
> and yet critics of the Co$ still promote the Church by using these
> very same words. The critics are giving validitity to Hubbard's
> claims. Why do they do this? I suspect a large number of them
> are deep hidden 'scientologists' working hand-in-hand with
> Scientology to either positively promote or negatively promote
> the Church on the Internet. Knowing that the Internet, is a public
> soup of low toned, ARCX beings, and using communication levels
> corresponding with those as you would find on the 'HUBBARD
> CHART OF HUMAN EVALUATION'. This game that scientologists
> and to a lesser extent the Official Church of Scientology use on the
> Internet, are all part-and-parcel of their technological understandings
> of the human mind, and human spirit, the tone scale, the comm
> line, Dianetics 55. You can promote Scientology in one of two ways,
> either pro or anti; either way if you are using terms that
> scientologists
> use you are promoting it in some way. What an interesting exercise,
> and experiment you are running here on the Internet, you pseudo-
> church-critics. Even up to defending ECT and drugging patients with
> neurotoxins. They understand that 'destructive' communications are
> the only type of communication lines that low-toned beings work with,
> can appreciate, and have any ARC with.
Thanks Dave for reposting Coffecup's little rant. I couldn't have
presented an argument against what his post was saying any better if I
had tried. I totally belive in your post, in that presenting the
information about C0$ in terms that Co$ uses gives both sides of the
argument...and let an internet savy person (young or old) go out to
Google (or Ask, or Hotbot) and find the information on their own.
I, for one, did do the research (you and I emailed each other a few
times, using my "other" email account....the serious one..hee-hee) and
I appreciate the information that has been put out there. It was
certainly enough for me to look at both sides of the argument and make
my understand clear that Layfette Hubbard was an insane man. And that
which spawned and is still around is a cult scam (and the interent is
waking people up to that fact).
Yes, they hate the internet because they can not control it. They can
not throw money at it to go away - and they can't stop the truth from
being put out there. Oh, they can try and muddy the waters so people
stumble on their way to the truth - but they can not stop it.
Haa-haa...sucks to be them!
Beckyboo
Howard wrote:
>
> Here's one that might elicit an on topic response...
>
> See URL:
>
> http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.htm
>
Trying to speak your language, here's my response in several languages:
thet leenk is brukee
dat link be bugger'd
that link is broken
atthay inklay isway okenbray
--
Becky
Dave Touretzky
Beckyboo <LtcRobe...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Howard wrote:
>>
>> Here's one that might elicit an on topic response...
>>
>> See URL:
>>
>> http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.htm
>
Add an "l". Corrected link is
http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.html#3
You could also have found this link by doing a Google search
on a key phrase from the article.
Another reason why Tom Cruise would hate the Internet -- if he could read.
-- Dave Touretzky: "Watch his lips move."
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
Howard
>
> Howard wrote:
> >
> > Here's one that might elicit an on topic response...
> >
> > See URL:
> >
> > http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.htm
> >
>
> Trying to speak your language, here's my response in several languages:
>
>
esyay
Here's my page save
See this:
Volume 4, Issue 34 vom 21. 11. 1999
Alt.religion.scientology Week in Review
Volume 4, Issue 34
11/21/99
by Rod Keller
rke...@voicenet.com
copyright 1999
Contents
1.Bob Minton
2.CCHR
3.France
4.Germany
5.Glendale
6.Protest Summary
7.Switzerland
8.Operation Clambake
Alt.religion.scientology Week in Review summarizes the most
significant postings from the Usenet group Alt.religion.scientology
for the preceding week for the benefit of those who can't follow the
group as closely as they'd like. Out of thousands of postings, I
attempt to include news of significant events, new affidavits,
court rulings, new contributors, whatever. I hope you find it
useful. Like many readers of a.r.s, I have a kill file. So please
take into consideration that I may not have seen some of the most
significant postings.
The articles in A.r.s Week in Review are brief summaries of articles
posted to the newsgroup. They include message IDs for the original
articles, and many have a URL to get more information. You may be
able to find the original article, depending on how long your site
stores articles in the newsgroup before expiring them.
Free A.r.s Week in Review subscriptions are available, just email me
at rke...@voicenet.com
It is archived at:
http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~krasel/CoS/ars-summary.html
http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/
http://www.religio.de/publik/arsfaq.html
#####
Bob Minton
A hearing was held in St. Petersburg this week on the restraining
order placed on Bob Minton following a protest at the Fort Harrison
Hotel in which he struck a Scientologist. Stacy Brooks reported on
the hearing.
"Bob wanted Denis de Vlaming, a very well-respected attorney in
Pinellas County, to represent him, but Mr. de Vlaming was out of
town and couldn't meet with Bob until right before the hearing this
morning. We drove to the courthouse in St. Pete and met him in the
law library for twenty minutes, just long
enough to meet him and give him a very short briefing of the history
of Scientology's harassment of Bob, including the current
circumstances. It was decided last week that we would have Mr. de
Vlaming request a continuance to give him a chance to prepare for
the hearing.
"The attorneys included Paul Johnson, Lee Fugate and Michael
Hertzberg. Richard Howd (the 'petitioner') and Ben Shaw were sitting
at the table with Howd's attorney Paul Johnson. Mike Rinder was
sitting in the front row with Michael Hertzberg, Lee Fugate and a
blonde OSA Legal go-for. One of the OSA handlers who has been
assigned to handle Bob at several pickets in Clearwater, the one we
call Spencer, was sitting in the next row with a long-time OSA Legal
staff member whose first name is Joyce but whose last name I have
forgotten. Also sitting in that row was Steve Marlowe. Steve was one
of DM's fair-haired boys back in the early 1980s, but he was booted
out of the inner circle and sent to the RPF for being disaffected
with DM.
"Mr. de Vlaming got up and asked the judge for a continuance based
on the fact that he had only just met his client twenty minutes
before the hearing. Paul Johnson got up and said a continuance would
be fine with him, but that his schedule was so full that he would
not be able to reschedule a hearing until mid-December or early
January. Mr. de Vlaming then stood up again and explained to the
judge that waiting till mid-December would not be acceptable to his
client. There is an important protest in the first week of December
which Mr. Minton wants to attend. For another reason, Mr. de Vlaming
said, Mr. Minton has bought a building in downtown Clearwater which
he intends to use as a personal residence as well as for a business
and he cannot be prohibited from entering his own property. This was
a bombshell in the Scientology camp.
"He took a short break, and when he came back he said, OK, let's
have the hearing on November 29. The TRO is still in place until the
hearing on November 29."
>From the St. Petersburg Times:
"The Church of Scientology came to court Monday hoping its No. 1
enemy, Robert S. Minton, would never again be allowed near church
properties in Clearwater. Instead, church officials learned that
Minton, a 53-year-old New England millionaire, plans to be much too
close for their comfort. Clearwater lawyer Denis de Vlaming told
Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Thomas E. Penick Jr. that Minton has
purchased a building next to the Clearwater Bank Building on
Cleveland Street, one of Scientology's signature properties
downtown. Later, de Vlaming clarified, saying Minton will not be
closing on the building for a few weeks. Either way, Minton wants to
use the building as a headquarters for a new, anti-Scientology
organization named after Lisa McPherson, the church
member who died in 1995 while under the care of Scientology
staffers. Minton also plans to live in the building, de Vlaming
said.
"The plans came to light during a hearing on whether a temporary
restraining order against Minton should be made permanent. The
church secured the order Nov. 4, three days after Minton was
arrested for misdemeanor battery, accused of striking church staffer
Richard W. Howd. De Vlaming called the incident 'a self-defense
situation' and said Minton would plead innocent. A prominent defense
attorney, de Vlaming's last high-profile client was the Baptist
leader Henry J. Lyons, who was convicted of racketeering and grand
theft."
Message-ID: <Qp8wOCqLq5YWqr...@4ax.com> Message-ID:
<80rjlt$7...@netaxs.com>
#####
CCHR
The Denver Post published a letter to the editor this week from the
state representative who organized a hearing in Denver, Colorado
where Scientology presented its case that psychiatric drugs were to
blame for the Columbine school shooting and other violence.
"The hearing was initiated by legislators, not the Church of
Scientology. I, too, am concerned about the group. This hearing
would have taken place earlier, but the information received turned
out to be exclusively from Scientology's Citizens Commission on
Human Rights. Upon learning this, I stopped everything and insisted
we find highly qualified professionals not linked with Scientology.
"By October, I learned of them through Dr. Fred Baughman, a
pediatric neurologist who testified. None of the professionals
(Baughman, Breggin, Block, Tracy or Mosher) are connected to
Scientology or its commission. The college student from Oregon is a
fundamentalist Christian, but the local Scientologist funded his way
here at my request. The only witness from that
Commission/Scientology was Bruce Wiseman, who had gathered the
objective data of which adolescents had done which violence and were
on (or coming off) which psychotropic drug. - State Rep. PENN
PFIFFNER, R-Lakewood"
Message-ID: <38374842...@news.primenet.com>
#####
France
>From The Associated Press:
"'The entire case from start to finish has been politically
motivated,' the Scientologists said in a statement on the verdict.
'This has been 10-year trial by Inquisition for the defendants,' the
statement said. The Scientologists said they would continue to bring
the case to the attention of international human rights
organizations. Delamare's lawyer, Jean-Yves Le Borgne, said his
client would take his time before deciding whether to appeal.
"In a statement issued last week in Los Angeles, the Scientologists
said they had asked the Geneva-based International Commission of
Jurists to look into French efforts 'to prejudice the rights of
minority religious members to a fair trial in France.' The
Scientologists already have appealed to the Organization for Security
and Cooperation in Europe for help in their goal of dissolving the
French government's anti-sect unit."
>From the Times on November 16th:
"Those who were convicted - who have now left the organisation -
were found guilty of extracting sums of money from gullible people,
who signed on for courses in 'spiritual purification'. In one case
of what the prosecution called a 'monstrous swindle', a man was
persuaded to spend 3,000 pounds on an 'electrometer', an instrument
used by Scientologists to identify zones of 'mental distress'. The
group denounced the trial in Marseilles as a political lynching,
carried out in a 'climate of religious McCarthyism'."
>From the BBC on November 15th:
"The former leader of the church in southern France, Xavier
Delamare, was sentenced to two years in jail, including 18 months
suspended, and fined 16,000 dollars for manipulating people into
giving money to the church. He will not return to jail because he
has spent 17 weeks in pre-trial detention.
"They went on trial last September accused of accepting money for
dubious treatments organised for church members. Some of these
included 'purification sessions and vitamin cures sold at excessive
prices, according to the prosecution. The case grew out of
complaints by a former scientologist. Charges of violence and
illegally practising medicine have been dropped."
>From Badische Zeitung on November 16th:
"It was ten years before the process could be opened this past
September. And then it was almost dropped before it started. Nine of
the ten victims had withdrawn their complaints - presumably out of
fear of reprisal by the sect, as the representative of the remaining
co-accuser hinted. Besides that, the justice administration, shortly
before, had to admit that important court documents had been
'mistakenly' destroyed in the shredder one year before. At the time,
the President of the Paris government commission to counteract
sects, Alain Vivient, expressed a suspicion that the justice
department and other state administrative organs had been
infiltrated by the sect."
>From a translation of the sentencing documents:
"Delamare is accused to have, in Marseille, between 1987 and 1990,
in any case under unprescribed time, through fraudulous methods
designed to make believe into a success, or a fear of accident or
any other chimerical occurrence, hereinto by attracting the victims
into the Dianetic centers of Nice and Marseille, by a
strong advertising, by submitting them to a free personality test
supposed to inform them, but whose scientific value is null, by
interpreting or making interpret such test in order to sell them
services, such services being fraudulently presented as able to
better the state of the persons, while these programs were not
credible and could be, for some of them, classed under mental
manipulation, so as to get finances, and having therefore
fraudulently got part or totality of the fortune of: Raymond
SCAPILLATO, Dominique DISDEROT, Annick LEPAGE, Eric DUCLOS,
Jean-Jacques GRENERON, Robert POLGUER, Martine MOZICONACCI, Martine
ALLISIO, Chantal LOLLICHON, Daniel MOLINE."
The French government has warned Denmark not to recognize
Scientology as an official religion, according to Ritzau, on
November 13th.
"Right now, Scientology is applying for recognition as a religion,
which traditionally brings tax relief. If Scientology achieves tax
relief in Denmark, all other EU countries have to follow their
example, due to the EU legislation. We would consider that a
scandal, says Alain Vivien, who is the chairman of a committee for
the fight against cults. Danish politicians has to be aware of that
they hold a European responsibility. If Denmark chooses to accredit
Scientology, it will be in opposition of all other EU countries,
says Vivien."
Message-ID: <80om8k$o19$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID:
<80p296$b...@netaxs.com> Message-ID:
<LjUwOLWZra+Hsp...@news.xs4all.nl> Message-ID:
<80pdae$8j2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID:
<3830d3ba...@news.primenet.com> Message-ID:
<3831d5bc...@news.primenet.com> Message-ID: <3833d9a3...@news.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <80r9mb$bc9$1...@cubacola.tninet.se> Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy> Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy> Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy> Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy> Message-ID:
<8102u8$bb7$4...@news2.isdnet.net> Message-ID:
<8102u7$bb7$3...@news2.isdnet.net>
#####
Germany
Fraenkisher Tag reported on November 15th that a seminar on cults
was recently held in Bavaria.
"The 'School and Business Work Group' held an information seminar in
the rooms of the Hanns Seidel Foundation for the purpose of
explaining the fascination with sects. Behnk's presentation was
called 'Scientology - Danger for State, Business and Society?' Even
though the Scientology sect, which was founded in 1954, currently is
said to have only about 5,000 to 10,000 members in Germany, it is
not the less dangerous 'because its adherents are all the more
radical,' as Behnk verified.
"Behnk continued his presentation by saying that the Scientologists
had undermined the usual model of
communication, that which is experienced by two parties as an
exchange of ideas. 'In Scientology, only Scientologisms are
transferred in their entirety to others. Scientology has no interest
in what others think,
and their communication forms a one-way street. Scientology works to
gain members using methods that make one's hair stand on end,
according to the speaker. Psycho-tests are often offered from the
facade of an institute. The results of every test are very confusing
to the person being tested and give the impression that the subject
person urgently needs psychological help. The institute offers
expensive courses, under the appearance of providing unique aspects
of help, in order to manipulate people.
"Scientology was said to strive more to ban all that diverges from
Scientology's worldview from the heads of its members. People are
robbed of their personality. Scientologists are continually offered
the chance to attain higher 'grades of salvation' through numerous
courses. 'In this way, moral limits are eradicated,' as Wolfgang
Behnk said. Members are gradually animated to take forceful action
against Scientology opponents. Scientologists 'are absolutely
megalomaniacal,' said Wolfgang Behnk. Although it is known that the
sect is marked by atheism, sect leaders 'disguise' themselves as
priests, as Behnk criticized. That is supposed to deceive people and
suggest that Scientology is apparently harmless."
Sindelfinger Zeitung reported on November 17th that the Stuttgart
org won a decision in court when officials lost a case to revoke its
status as an association.
"The Scientology branch has been operating a brisk commercial
business under the auspices of a registered association, according
to the administrative presidium. The association articles and the
general meetings were said by the speaker of the administrative
presidium to be 'pseudo-meetings' throughout. As a result, its
association privileges must be taken away. Dianetics Stuttgart was
said to be striving for commercial advantage in its so-called
'auditing' and training its auditors. In early 1996, for instance,
about twelve hours of auditing cost 8,652 marks ($6,575). At that
time the Scientology Academy was offering Grades 0 through IV at
18,400 marks ($14,000). The administrative presidium estimated the
annual intake of Dianetics Stuttgart to be 2 to 3 million marks.
"The administrative presidium of Stuttgart had been waging a similar
dispute since 1993 with 'The new Bridge, Inc.' Scientology branch. A
final decision never came about because The New Bridge, according to
the administrative presidium, dissolved."
>From Stuttgarter Nachrichten on November 18th:
"The Scientology branch of Dianetics Stuttgart, Inc. argued against
revocation of its legal ability yesterday, Wednesday, before the
Stuttgart Administrative Court. In the verbal discussion, the court
signaled that the status of being an association would not be able
to be legally revoked. The Stuttgart administrative
presidium had revoked association status for the sect in 1993
because the agency viewed the conduct of Dianetics as 'a commercial
operation.' Mainly from so-called auditing courses - sect critics
refer to it as brainwashing - the Scientologists earn millions every
year in Stuttgart alone, according to the way the
administrative presidium sees things. 'There is only one idea:
namely to make money and yet more money,' said an administrative
presidium staff member."
>From Stuttgarter Zeitung on November 18th:
"From the perspective of the representative of the administrative
presidium, Scientology is 'only about making money.' Anything
spiritual, religious or worldview was only feigned, he said. The
association targets sales like a commercial business, therefore it
could no longer enjoy the privileges of an association. He said the
Scientology Church would have to lose its non-profit status.
"The opposing side referred, in its arguments, to large sports
associations or organizations like Tuev or ADAC. They also were said
to function as commercial businesses and nobody seriously contended
their association rights. And the accusation that spirituality was
feigned was untenable. An outsider could also come
to that conclusion about the Catholic or Protestant churches, it was
said. Because a decision in favor of the Scientologists has already
been handed down by the Federal Administrative Court in these
issues, the chances of success for the RP look rather slim. The
administrative court will announce its decision in the next few
days.
>From Stuttgarter Nachrichten on November 19th:
"The Scientology Organization has attained a victory in the dispute
with the Stuttgart administrative presidium. According to a decision
which has just been released by the administrative court of
Stuttgart, the sect branch of Dianetics Stuttgart may retain its
association status. The administrative presidium had revoked the
status of an association with legal rights from the group in August
1994.
"Administration President Udo Andriof regretted the judgment. 'As
far as we're concerned, this organization and all its sub-branches
are still dangerous,' he said. The agency will not decide whether it
will appeal the decision until it sees the basis for the decision in
writing."
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy>
####
Glendale
The Los Angeles Times reported on November 18th that members of
Scientology contributed to a domestic violence center.
"The Women's Auxiliary of the Church of Scientology recently donated
boxes and bags of clothing and toys to the Glendale Domestic
Violence Center. The project was chaired by Margaret des Marteaux,
who hd members gather clothing and other items over the last couple
of months. Lissa Martinez, director of the Domestic Violence
Project, and Sylvia Hines, chief executive officer of the YWCA in
Glendale, accepted the donations. Along with des Marteaux were Judy
Cox, executive director of the Church of Scientology Mission of the
Foothills, Nancy Reitze, auxiliary chairwoman, and Lee Cambique,
auxiliary member."
Message-ID: <813rkl$qev$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
#####
Protest Summary
Catarina Pamnell reported protests in Copenhagen, Denmark this week.
"Saturday, I combined a shopping walk with friends down the
Stroeget, Copenhagen pedestrian street, with a little bit of flier
distribution. About 50 'Want to pay 1.000.000 kr for spiritual
freedom? - try Scientology(tm)' given out. Sunday afternoon, after
assorted entheta activities, I decided to give out another 50
fliers in Danish, in front of the AOSH EU.
"As expected, the security guy asked me with some disbelief if I was
there alone. I told him to go look for the other critics, which he
did. Later he came back with the video cam, but didn't bother to use
it. I had soon given out the last flier, so I headed towards the
Scala for some coffee. Sec guy followed me, he was still looking for
the other SPs. Then he came up to me, and I invited him to sit down.
We had a nice long chat."
Gregg Hagglund reported a protest in Toronto this week.
"Flyer Count: Aprox. 900. AM Volunteers: Alan Barclay, Mike Argue
and Gregg Hagglund. Ex Toronto Org members David Palter and
Granfalloon provided moral support and refreshments. Mike worked the
street opposite the org, Alan worked the south end of the Org and I
took my old place, in front of the video camera. Traffic was
actually quite steady and Mike and Alan went through 300 flyers by 1
PM.
"We were joined at lunch by Ron and shortly after we started the
afternoon session, Slippery Jim DiGriz showed up ready to join the
effort. So now 5 of us were busy doing brisk flyering and the Org of
flyered back, but without any real enthusiasm. We ran out of flyers
just before 5 PM. Despite Peter Ramsay's promise to show at the
picket and 'BITE BACK', he made no appearance.
"There was a great deal of interest and demands by the Shills to
know if I was planning to go to Clearwater this year. I declined to
let them know exactly what my plans are."
Message-ID: <80ok4f$esb$1...@zingo.tninet.se> Message-ID:
<211119991037274162%elr...@home.com>
#####
Switzerland
Neue Zuercher Zeitung reported on November 17th on the trial of
Gabor Bilkei, accused of murdering his wife.
"Gabor Bilkei, the veterinarian from Duebendorf who is accused of
having murdered his third wife, Heike, is again put under pressure
in the second day of his jury trial in the Zurich Court. Bilkei
stated in court that he had agreed to separate from his wife. She
had wanted to travel to South Africa to get rid of her drug
habit with the help of the Scientology organization. He supported
that. His wife had packed her things and next drove to the vacation
house in Emmetten (NW).
He had visited her there repeatedly. Right on the day of the
separation, April 22, 1996, Bilkei tried to special order ten grams
of highly poisonous prussic acid, which was not delivered to him. He
had wanted to put rabid animals to sleep with it, stated Bilkei. He
energetically denied the question as to whether the prussic acid had
been meant to kill his wife."
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.99111...@darkstar.zippy>
#####
Operation Clambake
Andreas Heldal-Lund reported the brief closing of Operation
Clambake, his web site at www.xenu.net, due to allegations of
improper use of trademarks and for copyright violations. The site
was later re-opened with only minor alterations. From a letter
Andreas sent to his Internet provider:
"http://www.xenu.net/ - This is the index page for my site and
contain links to information regarding all the metatags used there.
"http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html - This is an introduction to
Scientology authored by Roland Rashleigh-Berry who is a former UK
Scientologist and now a critic. This text is tailored for Operation
Clambake and Roland has of course approved that I host it. All
images on the page are made by me (except the HitBox banner of
course, but this I got HotBox's approval to use).
"http://www.xenu.net/archive/scientology_illustrated/ - This is a
witty illustrated introduction to Scientology made by two Italian
critics of Scientology. None of the images in this series hosted on
Operation Clambake are owned by RTC since they are from Corel
clipart libraries etc (which I hold a legal copy of here). I have
the author's permission to host this on Operation Clambake. If RTC
claims I host images owned by them there, tell them to provide full
addresses to these images.
"http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/ - This is an archive of postings
made to the public newsgroup alt.religion.scientology from 1995 till
today. This archive holds a lot of information about Scientology and
fits all the metatags used on the page. Rod Keller who has given me
permission to host it on Operation Clambake is the author of Week In
Review. All images on this page are made by me.
"http://www.xenu.net/archive/FBI/ - This is an archive of documents
made public by the FBI because of the Freedom of Information Act.
The top image and the introduction text are made by Chris Owen and
he has given the permission for it to be used on Operation Clambake.
Other images used here are made by me (with some use of Corel
clipart).
"I hope this clears all the issues brought up by RTC and that you
immediately make my web site available again. Please contact me
immediately if you have any further questions regarding this."
Message-ID: <j9f83so65ukvt5g0s...@4ax.com>
Howard
>
> In article <1157302752....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> Beckyboo <LtcRobe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >Howard wrote:
> >>
> >> Here's one that might elicit an on topic response...
> >>
> >> See URL:
> >>
> >> http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.htm
> >
> >dat link be bugger'd
>
> Add an "l". Corrected link is
>
> http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/211199.html#3
>
> You could also have found this link by doing a Google search
> on a key phrase from the article.
>
> Another reason why Tom Cruise would hate the Internet -- if he could read.
>
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
Thanks Dave
Howard
--
hedmundoatmacmaildotcom
vinny
You been taking idiot lessons from arnie, or just the pills?
Are you asserting in your fancied opinion that Tom Cruise can't read?
What an idiotic thing to say.
Oh. And I so love the way you do that "make wrong" on the person who
needed you to correct your misposted URL. Class.
Vinny
Lermanet.com
wrote:
As a public service for Scientology;s office of special affairs,
contentless dead-agent style postings such as vinny's above will be
followed up by something that is worth reading..
Perhaps Ill scan some never before seen on the web newsarticles...
As a public service.
If Communicaion is the unversal solvent... as Hubbard tells his
members
then why are so many ex-members gagged by scientology's cash offers?
http://www.lermanet.com/silence.htm
from Flo Conway and Jim Segelman's book
SNAPPING
America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change
We talked with an ex-member of the Church of Scientology, one of
the oldest and cagiest of America's cults, who took steps to preserve
his cult frame of mind during his deprogramming, until Patrick's adept
conversational skills caught his attention and he snapped out.
"I tried to pretend that I was listening," this former Scientologist
told us, "but I also tried to stay spaced out and not really pay
attention. Occasionally, something would go pop and I would suddenly
be listening to him. The feeling was mainly caused by his continuous
talking and changing the speeds of how he was talking. He made his own
rhythm and his own changes of high-pitched and low-pitched tones that
was really refreshing. From his continuously talking like that, he
just snapped me out of the spaced-out state I was in. All of a sudden
I felt a little flushed. I could feel the blood rushing through my
face."
To further our understanding of deprogramming and its controversial
inventor, we looked into Patrick's background and, during our
interview, asked him questions about his childhood, discovering a
depth of experience that gave clues to his insights into the tactics
used by the cults. Born and raised in Chattanooga, Tennessee, young
Theodore Roosevelt Patrick had even more social handicaps to overcome
than just being poor and black. The man who came to work wonders with
words was born with a speech impediment that brought him into contact,
at an early age, with many dubious forms of religion.
"My mother carried me to every fortune-teller, faith healer, Holy
Roller, false god, prophet, voodoo and hoodoo-every one that came into
town; but you could hardly understand a word I was saying," Patrick
told us. "My sister had to interpret for me. Then suddenly it came to
me. I thought, Are you asking God to do something that you are not
willing to do for yourself? Have you tried? And I knew I hadn't." So
Patrick cured himself.
"I'd always been afraid of words," he confessed. "I was unable to say
a lot of words because I was afraid they'd come out wrong. So I
started correcting myself over and over again, out loud. Even when I
was in church, my mind would be correcting itself over and over again.
That's how I got to the point where I can talk now."
After overcoming his initial disadvantages, Patrick progressed through
ten years of public school leaving high school to embark on his career
of social activism in defense of minority rights. Later, when he began
his battle against the cults, it must have seemed ironic to many who
knew him that he had become passionately engaged in what superficially
appeared to be a fight against the rights of individuals and
minorities. When he first began deprogramming, Patrick was well aware
that he was technically violating the First Amendment freedoms of the
cult members he abducted. In view of the circumstances, however, and
the observable changes that had come over the cult members, Patrick
was led to draw his fine and hotly debated distinction between
constitutional and human freedoms.
"When you're born into this world, you're born into the laws of
nature," Patrick asserted, "and only then are you introduced to the
laws of the land. Anytime someone destroys your free will, when they
take away your mind and your natural ability to think, then they've
destroyed the person. As long as you remain in that condition, you
have no more constitutional rights to violate:"
From the beginning, Patrick spoke out boldly in defense of freedom of
thought, knowing that his new procedure would cost him his job and his
own freedom as well. Although he had been deprogramming cult members
full-time for years, Patrick remained a deeply moral and religious
man. Nevertheless, in his deprogrammings, he took great care never to
impose his own religious beliefs, or anyone else's, on the young
people he rescued.
"When I deprogram people," he stressed, "I don't make any mention of a
church or whether or not I even believe in God. That's beside the
point. My intention is to get their minds working again and to get
them back out in the world. I've been through the Bible, I know it
backwards, but I didn't begin to understand the Bible until I got out
of school, when I hit the streets and started studying people. That's
the only way to use the Bible; you must relate it to everyday life.
When the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew says, There will be many
corning in my name, saying, I am Christ; and they will deceive the
very elect, then people should relate it to all these false gods
today."
There were signs that some people were beginning to understand. By the
late seventies, as other deprogrammers started working around the
country, most former clients or self-confessed imitators of Patrick's
style, they benefited greatly from the trailblazing efforts of Patrick
and Sondra Sacks, the mother of a young Hare Krishna member Patrick
had deprogrammed, who worked closely with Patrick through the
seventies. That evening, as we prepared to leave the cramped visitors'
cubicle in the Orange County Jail, Patrick told us of his plan to
write a manual of deprogramming, one that would clear up some of the
public
and professional confusion surrounding his technique and place it in a
broader framework that might be of value in treating other mental and
emotional disorders. Patrick grew philosophical as we touched upon
the implications of his work.
"A lot of people who are in mental hospitals have nothing wrong with
them," he said. "They just don't know how to accept life for what it
is and not what they want it to be. Like in here, for instance, I
adjust myself to this jail. I enjoy myself in prison because I'm stuck
here." As he continued, his powerful dark eyes began to twinkle. "I
got them organizing here," he confided. "It's been booming the past
week. One hundred and five inmates signed a petition requesting a
grand jury investigation of my case."
After eight months in prison, apparently, Black Lightning was back in
action.
Three days after we left him, he was released from jail.
Through two decades of his legal battles and repeated periods of
imprisonment and probation, few people spoke up in defense of Ted
Patrick or the pioneering work he was doing, ultimately, at his own
great personal and financial expense. No mainstream mental health
organization or established social institution has yet taken a stand
on behalf of his concept of freedom of thought. Part of the problem,
especially in those early years, was attributable to Patrick's manner
of action. In his single-minded focus on rescuing cult members, he
minced no words and wasted little time on social niceties. As a
result, he often irked and alienated those parents, clinicians and law
enforcement officials who might otherwise be his natural allies.
Yet, regardless of his style, the grave questions Patrick first
flamboyantly brought to public attention are not ones we can choose to
like or dislike-nor will they simply go away if we ignore them. Is an
individual free to give up his freedom of thought? May a religion,
popular therapy, political movement or any other enterprise
systematically attack human thought and feeling in the name of God,
the pursuit of happiness, personal growth or spiritual fulfillment?
These are questions that Americans, perhaps more than others, are not
prepared to deal with, because they challenge long-standing
constitutional principles and cultural assumptions about the nature of
the mind, personality and human freedom itself.
In the months after our trip to the Orange County Jail we spoke with
many people about Ted Patrick: parents, ex-cult members, attorneys,
mental health professionals and others who, at the time, were
only dimly aware of the building controversy over some alleged forms
of religion in America. Some denounced him as a villain and a fascist,
others hailed him as a folk hero and dark prophet of what lay ahead
for America. Yet Patrick himself showed little concern for titles or
media images.
We met with him again during the summer of 1977, in Colorado, where he
had gone voluntarily to serve out the last few weeks of an earlier
kidnapping conviction in that state. He greeted us warmly in a private
visiting room at the Denver Jail, his hands and shirt covered with
bright-colored paint from work he had been doing in the prison
workshop. Our talk turned to the cult controversy and his own
worsening legal and financial situation caused by a flood of lawsuits
filed against him by several large, wealthy cults. In a statement more
prescient at the time than either of us knew, Patrick became somber,
concerned over what he saw as the public's growing apathy in the face
of the cult world's increasing wealth, power and social legitimacy.
"The cult movement is the greatest threat and danger to this country
that we have ever had," he said gravely, "but the people won't wake
up, the government, Congress, the Justice Department won't wake up
until something bad happens."
With regard to his own work, he said, he felt a greater urgency than
ever, and he was already marshalling his forces to go back into battle
upon his release. He said he would try to stay within the law wherever
possible in the future, but if it became a question of crossing the
line to save a cult member's captive mind, he had no doubt what his
priority would be. Patrick assured us he would continue to appeal to
government and the mental health establishment for their help,
although he saw little hope of winning support for his efforts.
"Sooner or later, they're going to have to recognize deprogramming as
a profession," he said. "They're going to be forced to. But right now
they don't believe that this is something that can happen to anybody.
Everybody's vulnerable. I want to make people aware of that."
We crossed paths with Patrick many times in the years that followed.
We interviewed him for Playboy just days before the 1978 Jonestown
cult massacre, and we shared a podium with him and other cult
investigators at a joint U.S. House-Senate committee hearing on the
cult phenomenon convened in Washington in 1979. He was convicted on
another kidnapping charge in 1980 and spent a year in two more
California prisons in the mid-eighties for violating his probation on
that conviction. He survived another criminal indictment in Washington
State and weathered two dozen civil suits for claims totalingmore than
$100 million.
Through the eighties, Black Lightning remained a lightning rod, a
target of aggressive counterattacks and disinformation campaigns waged
against deprogramming by major cults and more mainstream
fundamentalist Christian sects. By the mid-nineties, he was widely
presumed to be out of commission, but Patrick was still active,
working mostly on voluntary deprogrammings and rehabilitation
counseling. In the interim, swayed by a changing religious, political
and social climate, courts across the country grew cold to
deprogramming. Another pioneering deprogrammer, New York cult
counselor and private detective Galen Kelly, was prosecuted on
criminal charges in two separate cases in the same federal court in
Virginia. Kelly won the first case but was convicted and spent more
than a year in prison on the second before an appeals court overturned
his conviction.
Those cases and others brought a global chill. In the new climate,
judges were deaf to the pleas of the parents and families of cult
members, and the precarious deprogramming profession was largely
eclipsed by the efforts of the new generation of cult "exit
counselors:" Exit counselors we talked with, many of them one-time
sect members themselves who had gone on to acquire clinical training
and credentials, were testing a wide range of eclectic approaches,
some more successful, some less so. Many were generalists, counseling
cultists and families across America and, increasingly, in other
countries. Some specialized in counseling ex-Moonies, members of
Eastern cults, or controlling charismatic groups and extreme
fundamentalist sects.
Most confirmed a pattern we, too, had noted: the new methods of
voluntary deprogramming and exit counseling, while far less
controversial and much safer from a legal standpoint, prompted fewer
cult
members to experience a sudden "snapping out" of their controlled
states of mind. Instead, most experienced a slower process of
emergence,
or as Rick Ross, an exit counselor from Arizona, called it, a gradual
"unfolding" from the cults' ingrained altered states.
Afterwards, many required additional counseling, specialized
rehabilitation and, for some, ongoing psychotherapy to recover their
personalities and regain full control over their impaired powers of
mind.
At the Wellspring Center in southern Ohio, one of the few organized
post-cult rehabilitation centers, Paul Martin, Ph.D., himself an
ex-member of an extreme Christian sect who went on to earn a clinical
degree in psychology and doctorate in counseling, became the first
exit counselor to develop diagnostic tests of cult effects and
systematic methods to help departing cultists traverse the difficult
steps of emergence and re-entry into society. He and other exit
counselors worked productively with the media and interested
clinicians to bring the spreading phenomenon of cult control to higher
levels of public and professional
concern.
But, two decades later, public understanding and professional support
were still in short supply.
-END of Excerpt
Some of my own discussions about deprogramming
and helpful tips for anyone whose got a freind of family member with a
foot stuck in L Ron Hubbard's chinese finger trap for minds called
Scientology
HERE
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=3fc3f6e9a1366e11d3ee680df46e379e
Mostr recent radio show here: 1770 views on putfile.com May 2006
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=3fc3f6e9a1366e11d3ee680df46e379e
Most recent newspaper article Here July 2006 Front page Sunday Tampa
Tribune .. with a picture (Article includes quotes from Lerma and Rick
Ross)
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/tampatribune/tampatrib-ross-lerma-07092006.htm
This posting dedicated vinny, ZeretsulCuneX on ARS and jj and pitbul
on OCMB... guys who need deprogramming
Beckyboo
vinny wrote:
>
> Oh. And I so love the way you do that "make wrong" on the person who
> needed you to correct your misposted URL. Class.
>
Silly, silly cuzzin Vinny.
Does this come to mind....flaming red hair, Irish!!! Now that's
class...
Is that me?.....nope....someone near and dear to your late leader....
think.....
<wink, wink>
Can't shut up the Irish though, no idea how to make a long story short.
--
Becky
MackBuckler
wrote:
I rest my case.
>The fact is, critical Scientology material sells. People eat it up,
>astonished that such a destructive organization is allowed to operate
>outside the law right here in the US.
Your bias is showing, Barb - please cover it up in public.
>It's as fascinating as Heaven's Gate. Waco. The People's Temple.
I would say much much more so. How many column inches get inked for The
People's Temple these days? Jim Jones didn't have any movie credits
that I know of (I don't know that his agent ever got him an endorsement
deal for those shades he wore or were they prescription? I don't
recall). Anyway they were third rate at best as far as media longevity
is concerned. And that Heaven's Gate gang - what a bunch of weirdoes.
Wasn't their leader a eunuch?
Now Waco - David Koresh - pretty much just a wife swapping child
molester? I don't think killing everyone in sight did much to inspire
confidence in the Fed's methods for handling a sex addict. BTW, wasn't
Rick Ross an advisor on that one? His publicist ought to have a chat
with him about dropping it from the resume.
<snip>
--Mack
p.s. What about that marketing analysis?
banchukita
Hey, you knew about all three, right?
And give the kid an LRH kewpie doll, true that nobody writes much about
People's Temple these days because *they're all dead, Jim.*
If People's Temple and Heaven's Gate were still abusing people and the
law, I'm sure they'd get many more column inches.
I think all of the group leaders you mention above were about power
more than anything else, although you're trying your best to minimize
that for some reason (Koresh "just" a chi-mo?).
> <snip>
>
> --Mack
>
> p.s. What about that marketing analysis?
Since you seem lost, perhaps I can help with this part.
Of those that I've worked with, and no matter what the target
demographic, radio and TV producers are interested in sparking
discourse about the subjects they present on their programs. Most
subjects and issues have more than one side, and people like to be able
to explore the issues.
They want people to talk about what they saw with each other: "Hey, did
you see The Show last night? What did you think of -x-?"
You know, all that communication stuff that us wogs just suck at.
-maggie, human being
Lermanet.com
wrote:
>
>> p.s. What about that marketing analysis?
>
>Since you seem lost, perhaps I can help with this part.
>
>Of those that I've worked with, and no matter what the target
>demographic, radio and TV producers are interested in sparking
>discourse about the subjects they present on their programs. Most
>subjects and issues have more than one side, and people like to be able
>to explore the issues.
>
>They want people to talk about what they saw with each other: "Hey, did
>you see The Show last night? What did you think of -x-?"
>
>You know, all that communication stuff that us wogs just suck at.
>
>-maggie, human being
for Mack
" Rosenblum says she experienced a mental "void" after leaving the
church, "where everything you believe in all of a sudden vanishes, and
it leaves you with nothing to hold onto."
"It is a very strange feeling," she said. "I went through a long
period where I simply didn't believe anything - TV, books, newspapers,
etc. I didn't believe because, if I had been so wrong before, how
could I trust myself again to believe anything was right?"
"Although I now live in a great deal of fear end terror because of
what Scientology did to me, the constant control end deprivation
imposed on me has left me with an Appreciation for the simple things
in life. Things like being able to get in a car and go for a ride,
being able to be alone, being able to walk outside, feeling the sun on
you, and all by your own choice.
"I don't think I ever really understood what it means to be free and
have freedom until it was taken from me."
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/clearwatersun/cwsun-1980.txt
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/clearwatersun/cwsun-1980.tif
Dave Touretzky
banchukita <banch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Of those that I've worked with, and no matter what the target
>demographic, radio and TV producers are interested in sparking
>discourse about the subjects they present on their programs. Most
>subjects and issues have more than one side, and people like to be able
>to explore the issues.
>
>They want people to talk about what they saw with each other: "Hey, did
>you see The Show last night? What did you think of -x-?"
After I appeared on the Glenn Beck show in July 2005, explaining
Scientology's crazy beliefs and dishonest behavior, I got some nice
emails and phone messages from people who heard and enjoyed the show.
A week later, I got some more messages, including one from a guy in
California who heard me on the radio and Googled me, because Glenn had
re-run the segment.
About two months later, a local guy who I do some business with here
in Pittsburgh left me a congratulatory voicemail. He had just heard
the show -- because Glenn Beck ran the segment AGAIN.
I guess this means I did a decent job. Hail Xenu! But of course,
when one speaks publicly, one's performance is always open to
criticism. So take your best shot:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/Media/glennbeck-2005-07-01-pt1.mp3
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/Media/glennbeck-2005-07-01-pt2.mp3
Money quote:
"Glenn, Xenu is the REASON you're a sick, twisted freak."
-- Dave Touretzky: "But Scientology can help you with that."
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
formerlyfooled
Dave Touretzky wrote:
> Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
> terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
>
> giant glowing mass of entheta, with content that is highly ranked in
> search engines and mirrored at several other sites.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because Xenu lives there.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because critic sites like Xenu.net
> receive equal prominence with the cult's own web sites, thanks to
> Google.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because ex-members it thought had been
> "shuddered into silence" are finding their voices again. They've seen
> a lot of the cult's dirty laundry, and they're no longer afraid to
> talk about it.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because my E-Meter page is more
> highly ranked in Google than their E-meter page.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because it will never forget Lisa
> McPherson.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because, among an entire generation of
> young people, anyone with enough brains to use a web browser quickly
> learns the truth about L. Ron Hubbard.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because every book, magazine article,
> or television program critical of Scientology has been resurrected and
> made available worldwide, for free.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because kids on YouTube and YTMND
> make fun of them without fear of retribution.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because it's destroying their
> membership stats.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because their front groups like Applied
> Scholastics and Narconon are exposed and thoroughly debunked there.
>
> Scientology hates the Internet because they can't control it.
>
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets <
Yes, this is why scientology hates the internet.
Barbara Schwarz
"formerlyfooled" <formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1157402641.6...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
>> Scientology
In such cases, Dave Touretzky and/or his friends "lift" the net by removing
the information. I call it anti-free speech activities.
Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark [Marty] Rathbun. No
impostor, please!)
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
--
(I am concerned about Dave Touretzky's activities. He also has bomb
instructions on the net.) http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
Brian J. Bruns aka Burns plays a "cop" on the net but he is a felon
(computer crimes), a spammer, an anti-free speech activist. The abusive AHBL
website is his. He lies about me on his website, and he is disturbed. Inmate
# 445064, County of Suffolk, NY, FBI: 843935WB8. He was many months
incarcerated.
Bruns is the abuser, and he is supported by Korey Jerome Kruse ("Lord Xenu",
"Simkatu" or "Vivaldi") who also just came out of jail and is, according to
the courts, an habitual offender. He also was ordered to undergo psych
evaluation. Of course it didn't help.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/70fdd710bf99c37a?dmode=source&hl=en
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=%22Korey+Jerome+Kruse%22
Barbara Schwarz
Lord Xenu schrieb:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
You are not helping your friend Tilman, Korey. You just make it worse
for him. He had a better reputation before he worked hand in hand with
you.
Barbara Schwarz (Looking for the original Mark [Marty] Rathbun. No
impostor, please!)
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
--
Barbzzzzz "Babbles" Graham, is the selfproclaimed "chaplain" of an
allegedly non-existing organization named ARSCC that doesn't pay taxes.
But if they don't exist, how come they have a Chief Financial Officer
(jail bird, drug loving and habitual offender Korey Jerome Kruse aka
"Simkatu" and "Lord Xenu") who works and travels on behalf of ARSCC?
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=%22Korey+Jerome+Kruse%22
Barbara Graham in her own words: "Anything's legal if you don't get
caught." And: "You asshole. I was *never* a good person, you sad piece
of crap. --
Spidergraham, Chaplain, ARSCC"
More: http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/graham1.html
>
> "Barbara Schwarz" <Barbara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:44fc...@news2.lightlink.com...
> >
> > "formerlyfooled" <formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1157402641.6...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> Dave Touretzky wrote:
> >>> Scientology
> >
> > In such cases, Dave Touretzky and/or his friends "lift" the net by
> > removing the information. I call it anti-free speech activities.
>
> Yes, he probably did it due to instructions his "psych case officer" radioed
> to him via his SEGNPMSS implants, right?
>
> FAQ
> Q: What are the claims that Barbara makes in her posts?
>
> A: She claims to be the daughter of L. Ron Hubbard of the infamous
> Scientology cult, and the granddaughter of President Eisenhower. She also
> commonly goes on and on about people conspiring against her in a plot to
> cover up the truth about who she is. A quote from the Salt Lake Tribune:
>
> "Schwarz believes she was born in approximately 1956 at a secretive
> government compound "submarine base" called Chattanooga on the Great Salt
> Lake, the alleged daughter of Church of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard
> and the granddaughter of President Eisenhower, although there is no proof of
> any such place or relationship.
>
> The ensuing story reads like a science fiction novel -- kidnapping by Nazis,
> mind control, conspiracy, hidden fortunes, faked deaths, insane asylums,
> cover-ups and microchips implanted in unsuspecting peoples' heads..."
>
> Q: Have any of her claims ever been proven?
>
> A: As far as we know, no. However, in her quest to prove her side, shes
> become known as a FOIA Terrorist for filing more bogus Freedom Of
> Information Act requests then anyone else in history. After not getting the
> answers she wanted, even after straining our government to comply with her
> requests, she decided to name in a 2,307 page lawsuit over 3,000 defendants.
>
> MORE:
> http://www.ahbl.org/notices/barbschwarz.php
>
> Also see...
>
> Former CO$ member Barbara "Babbles" Schwarz and SEGNPMSSS
> http://tinyurl.com/mdxr5
>
> She also thinks that SEGNPMSS runs the FDA, too.
> http://tinyurl.com/ojyup
>
> Babbles' Original Wikipedia Page
> http://tinyurl.com/m8xar
>
> Get some help, Barbara...
>
> SLC, UT Mental Health Services Directory
> http://www.mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/databases/MHDR.aspx?D1=UT&Type=MDR
>
> Anosognosia (impaired awareness of illness):
> http://www.psychlaws.org/BriefingPapers/BP14.pdf
>
> Folks, you can report Barbara Schwarz to Immigration and Customs Enforcement
> (ICE) @ 1-866-DHS-2ICE for being in this country illegally and that will
> ensure that
> she will get the mental health care she needs so badly.
>
> In Enturblation & Entheta,
>
> Your Friendly Galactic Overseer
> ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> Lord Xenu © <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
> =========================================
> "In my opinion, the face in the subject rice in the subject
> pan was that of the same Xenu, also known as Lord Xenu,
> who is known to have ruled the sector of the universe that
> included earth seventy- five million years ago."
> -- © 2004 Gerry Armstrong
> =========================================
> http://www.xenu.net
> http://www.ronthenut.org/
> http://www.whyaretheydead.net
> http://www.xenutv.com
> =========================================
Lermanet.com
Her posts include what appears to be babble
however
The words she chooses for her posts are keywords to misdirect search
engines from postings scientology does NOT want found when searching
google groups..
vinny
Lermanet.con wrote:
> Her posts include what appears to be babble
>
> however
>
> The words she chooses for her posts are keywords to misdirect search
> engines from postings scientology does NOT want found when searching
> google groups..
>
shows that you change the .con site with any news cycle.
Vinny
Barbara Schwarz
I like that the crazy guy who defames me, makes himself look like an
insane idiot by not spelling "health" right.
http://www.thunderstar.net/~schwarz/lrh/fbidocs.html
Barbara Schwarz
--
Eugenics promoter and American enemy Tilman Hausherr and habitual,
sexual harasser, forger and habitual offender Korey Jerome Kruse
(Vivaldi, Lord Xenu and other sockpuppets) scribbled a defamatory
misleading Wikipedia article about me. Kruse just came out of jail.
http://www.alarmgermany.org/tilman.htm
Shame on Wikipedia:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/6d0746fa85f2f217?hl=en&
Another lying abuser who stalks me from thread to thread is Peat
Stapleton (Eru Avatar), alsimak_three @ yahoo.com, from Redding,
California, a dead beat with several social security numbers, self
confessed pimp and child rapist, and former inmate with a psychiatric
history, who runs astrology scans.
Barbara Schwarz
Neveah N. Lleh
Huh? Wow you're a real fuckin' genius! There's no way you're a troll.
Unpossible!
*snerk*
vinny <vincent...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157672352.5...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
derka derka
>
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
>
>> Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
>> terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
>>
>
> Hubbard originated the name 'XENU' and words like 'enturbulation'
> and yet critics of the Co$ still promote the Church by using these
> very same words. The critics are giving validitity to Hubbard's
> claims. Why do they do this? I suspect a large number of them
> are deep hidden 'scientologists' working hand-in-hand with
> Scientology to either positively promote or negatively promote
> the Church on the Internet. Knowing that the Internet, is a public
> soup of low toned, ARCX beings, and using communication levels
> corresponding with those as you would find on the 'HUBBARD
> CHART OF HUMAN EVALUATION'. This game that scientologists
> and to a lesser extent the Official Church of Scientology use on the
> Internet, are all part-and-parcel of their technological understandings
> of the human mind, and human spirit, the tone scale, the comm
> line, Dianetics 55. You can promote Scientology in one of two ways,
> either pro or anti; either way if you are using terms that
> scientologists
> use you are promoting it in some way. What an interesting exercise,
> and experiment you are running here on the Internet, you pseudo-
> church-critics. Even up to defending ECT and drugging patients with
> neurotoxins. They understand that 'destructive' communications are
> the only type of communication lines that low-toned beings work with,
> can appreciate, and have any ARC with.
oh you poor brainwashed clam.. just look at what you are writing.. this
is all of Hubbard's fabricated language that means absolutely nothing
in the real world(or wog world like you would call it). Scn teaches
you all of this crap so that you feel like an outsider in the wog
world, like you know something they don't. Scn also uses your will to
be a good person against you, by basically saying anyone against Scn is
simply against people living good lives and wants the world to suffer.
David Miscavige is one of the most UN-ETHICAL people on this planet,
just look into how he came into power following Hubbard's demise.
ross.in...@gmail.com
For five years before the Davidian standoff I assisted families and
received complaints concerning the followers of Vernon Howell (aka
David Koresh). Two families retained me for intervention work. One
before the standoff (during the summer of 1992) and another actually
during the standoff. The second intervention focused on a Davidian who
was blocked from returning to the compound due to the standoff. Both
these interventions were successful.
I was interviewed by Davy Aguilera (January 1993) of the Bureau of
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). At that time I recounted calls
from concerned families and my observations about Koresh's influence. I
was the only cult expert and intervention specialist that had direct
experience with the Waco Davidians at that time. I urged the BATF to
exercise caution, specifically that David Koresh was heavily armed and
might prove to be dangerous. This was also well established by his 1987
arrest for attempted murder and by weapons that had been previously
seized.
Subsequently, the BATF interviewed David Block, a former follower of
David Koresh that I had worked with during the summer of 1992.
Everything David Block said in that interview was later proven to be
accurate.
Subsequently, during the standoff I was interviewed and consulted by
the FBI. We did have disagreements on the handling of the standoff.
It is a matter of fact and well-documented, that David Koresh refused
to come out, despite his promise to do so and numerous offers to
facilitate the safe exit of Davidians made repeatedly by federal law
enforcement.
The Republican Report regarding the Waco Standoff concluded this. That
report states that the Davidians had ample opportunity to leave, even
during the fire. Ultimately, that report concluded David Koresh was
responsible for the tragedy at Waco.
Subsequently, a civil suit was filed by Davidian survivors and their
families. The plaintiffs lost and once again David Koresh was
essentially blamed for the tragedy.
The independent Danforth Report concluded the same.
However, despite the facts, which have been substantiated and proven
again and again, conspiracy theorists and cults will probably never
accept the truth about Waco.
See http://www.rickross.com/groups/waco.html
Rick A. Ross
www.rickross.com
vinny
Dave dave dave - you sure do a lot of correcting of little mistakes in
your posts. Do we need to worry that you are on drugs too? or is it
just that you aren't paying attention to what you are doing while you
dream of raping your students of their ideas while rubbing that dildo
on your sweaty parts?
Another reason that Dave Touretsky hates the internet - it exposes him
as a hateful fool that he is.
Vinny
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
Bad mirroring/attempted projection is an old trick to people who read this
newsgroup, clambot. Scientology hates the Internet simply because it cannot
control it - which is the only way your cult's bizarre version of reality
can spread past the careful confines of Scientology, and unfortunately, your
mind.
Think about how obvious your pathetic attempts are to everyone, the next
time you grab the cans.
FLUNK! START OVER.
--
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://xenu.com-it.net/txt/ildikoe.htm
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Scamology
bad. The Internet DOES level the playing field for people to find out
facts about Scientology that David Miscavige would rather have hidden.
http://whyaretheydead.net/
http://www.scientomogy.info/
http://xenu.net/
http://xenutv.com/
Search around. Find out all the facts whether you are in Scientology or
thinking about getting in. As an advisor once told me, always have an
exit strategy before entering a major endeavor.
Look at the Scientology waiver. Understand it's implications if you
decide to leave. Don't take a white washed "everything is good here"
sales pitch that they will give you. Understand what has happened to
people that have left. See how they were treated.
Use the Internet as a tool to understand the truth about Scientology.
Dave Touretzky wrote:
> Scientology hates the Internet because it's full of "copyright
> terrorists" -- Helena Kobrin's ridiculous phrase.
>