Sexual abuse, children, Scientology
Cat Davidson-Hall
In article <324b434...@news.idiscover.co.uk>,
ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk (Ralph Hilton) wrote:
> After quite a lot of auditing in Scientology I came to face my
> experiences as a child. I learned to relate sexually to a woman and
> share pleasure with her without the eternal shadow of that abuse. For
> that change I have to thank LRH and Scientology because without him
> and his work I don't think it would have occurred.
Ralph, thank you for sharing this. Overcoming child sexual abuse is not
an easy thing, even when you have the love and support of your friends
and/or family members and whatever social services exist in your area.
Doing it without a support system can be excruciatingly painful.
There are many ways of healing from experiences like this, some of which
are more constructive than others. I found therapy, particularly art
therapy, particularly helpful. But the real power behind the healing was
mine.
I'm glad that Scientology was able to help you in this way, and that your
auditing helped you to face these experiences, put them into perspective,
and move on. I disagree, though, when you say that your healing wouldn't
have occurred without Scientology. The tech, or the therapy, is just the
tool; the real strength is within you.
Take care,
Cat
SP4, KoX, KBM
--
"Hips - Tits - Lips - Power"
- Silverfish -
Ralph Hilton
I'm starting this as another thread because it doesn't belong
as a follow up. I've read the posts about Tony Strawn and his crime.
The CofS seem to have tried to cover it up which, if the posts
are true, I accept as wrong.
However, perhaps as an alternative viewpoint on Scientology I
have to tell my story.
I note that Scientologists, in posting to a.r.s. never talk
about themselves. They only talk about Scientology. I only hear very
generalized statements. In my 5 months on a.r.s. Heidrun is the only
Scientologist I have heard make a personal statement.
After I left the CofS I looked at all the "squirrel" groups.
From Werner Erhardt (EST) I learned about personal integrity in a way
that LRH never expressed in a way that I understood. I learned that
sharing one's own experience is far more meaningful than a
philosophical discourse.
Thus I respect people like Arianne and Stevea and many others
who have talked about themselves on a.r.s. far more than those who say
they have had wins from scn but say nothing real about themselves.
The first time I was abused was at the age of 9. An older boy
dragged me into a lavoratory and sexually abused me. This went on for
a year, perhaps once a week.
Between the ages of 9 and 13 I was abused by various older
boys about 120 times.
I spent my teens in fear of sexual experience. I first had a
sexual relationship with a woman at the age of 25 having spent my
younger years in a feeling that I was some sort of despicable being
sexually.
I joined the Sea org at the age of 19 and went to the Apollo,
the HQ of Scientology at that time.
After quite a lot of auditing in Scientology I came to face my
experiences as a child. I learned to relate sexually to a woman and
share pleasure with her without the eternal shadow of that abuse. For
that change I have to thank LRH and Scientology because without him
and his work I don't think it would have occurred.
Ralph Hilton
Ralph Hilton
On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:45:40 -0800, c...@brc.ubc.ca (Cat Davidson-Hall)
wrote:
>In article <324b434...@news.idiscover.co.uk>,
>ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk (Ralph Hilton) wrote:
>
>> After quite a lot of auditing in Scientology I came to face my
>> experiences as a child. I learned to relate sexually to a woman and
>> share pleasure with her without the eternal shadow of that abuse. For
>> that change I have to thank LRH and Scientology because without him
>> and his work I don't think it would have occurred.
>
snip-
>I'm glad that Scientology was able to help you in this way, and that your
>auditing helped you to face these experiences, put them into perspective,
>and move on. I disagree, though, when you say that your healing wouldn't
>have occurred without Scientology. The tech, or the therapy, is just the
>tool; the real strength is within you.
>
Thanks -
I agree - the real strength is in oneself - I would also say that the
the strength of the tech or therapy is in the way that it allows one
to find one's own inner strength.
--
Ralph Hilton
clear baby
Ralph Hilton wrote:
> I note that Scientologists, in posting to a.r.s. never talk
> about themselves. They only talk about Scientology. I only hear very
> generalized statements. In my 5 months on a.r.s. Heidrun is the only
> Scientologist I have heard make a personal statement.
Maybe - but this too has limits.
> After I left the CofS I looked at all the "squirrel" groups.
> From Werner Erhardt (EST) I learned about personal integrity in a way
> that LRH never expressed in a way that I understood. I learned that
> sharing one's own experience is far more meaningful than a
> philosophical discourse.
Ralph, I am afraid personal integrity is in a very sensible way
connected with society's patterns. If these patterns are aberrated,
there is really not much space for one's integrity or personal freedom
(which is a part of integrity in my opinion).
I can imagine that in an islamite society which is very fundamentalistic,
a woman who would insist on her right to show her face, would perhaps
have a rather short life.
The question in such a case would be, which kind of integrity has
priority - the integrity to strictly adhere to my own standards
(which would mean: show my face, and die for it) - or that other
kind of integrity which accepts the necessity to bow to aberration
to some extent, in order to stay there and contribute to this
society's education, for the sake of its children and future?
I think if every person who has been important for our civilization,
had REALLY kept his integrity (of the first kind) - we would still
live up there in the trees. Most of them would have quit the
game before doing anything remarkable, because of its degrading
influence on themselves.
> Thus I respect people like Arianne and Stevea and many others
> who have talked about themselves on a.r.s. far more than those who say
> they have had wins from scn but say nothing real about themselves.
Yes. Especially when I think of the considerable reduction of their
personal life's quality they knew their future would hold for them.
Some data are of a magnitude which exceeds the importance of one
individual's life. What scientology has done to people - but also
what scientology could do for people - belongs to this kind of data.
> The first time I was abused was at the age of 9. An older boy
> dragged me into a lavoratory and sexually abused me. This went on for
> a year, perhaps once a week.
> Between the ages of 9 and 13 I was abused by various older
> boys about 120 times.
I think this story is a category of its own - a nightmare - incredible
that such things can happen in europe. My question is - did you tell
anybody? And if no - why not? I assume your parents cannot have
known about it, or they would have done something to protect their
child?
> I spent my teens in fear of sexual experience. I first had a
> sexual relationship with a woman at the age of 25 having spent my
> younger years in a feeling that I was some sort of despicable being
> sexually.
My main degradation on that dynamic was of another kind. The man who
was most important in my life for 20 years, had been driven crazy
by social patterns about hiding everything with had to do with love
and sex (he was much older than me - these patterns have changed
in the meantime).
His life was a ruin of lying, secrets and thinking about which
stories he had invented for whom. He contempted himself for not
being loyal to me and hated me for causing that. Result was that
the most important, beautiful and dear experiences of my life had
to be kept secret by me. The milestones of my personal development,
and the cardinal points of my life's history, each and everything
got this touch of dirt and undecency and worthlessness.
I had to cut communication not only to average people, but also
to my best friends and soon didn't have friends anymore - they
probably felt that I was withholding my joys, my doubts - myself!
When I finished that degrading relationship, I SWORE to never
hide again - and broke that oath, because I thought to understand
that love can be exposed only to loving eyes without being
damaged - but then, what in the world could damage a love which
really deserved that name?
> I joined the Sea org at the age of 19 and went to the Apollo,
> the HQ of Scientology at that time.
> After quite a lot of auditing in Scientology I came to face my
> experiences as a child. I learned to relate sexually to a woman and
> share pleasure with her without the eternal shadow of that abuse.
I am glad about that.
> For
> that change I have to thank LRH and Scientology because without him
> and his work I don't think it would have occurred.
I think you are right - but also I share the opinion of other
posters here, that it's a matter of personality too. Yes, scientology
is a tool - but to find the right tool, to use it with skill -
perhaps to realize that it is needed in the first place - all these
are things which also are necessary (and not contained in the tool).
For me, this matter will not resolve before I have managed to
address not only my own pain about it, but also that of other people
who are building society. I think that scientology IS the tool
which can make that come true (see for instance the relevant
chapter in "New Slant on Life", where LRH talks about the
catastrophe of cut communications lines; and the result of
grade 0 of course).
And here we come back to that nightmare of your childhood, Ralph.
Did you tell anybody about these abuses? And if no - why not?
clear baby, CoS dissident
(net.warrant: http://www.avalon.demon.co.uk/heidrun.htm)
---------- L. Ron Hubbard, in a letter from 22. 7. 1982: -----------
The single most notable difference between an upstat, easy-to-live-and
work-with group and a downstat, hard-to-live-and-work-with group is
that the individual group members themselves enforce the action and
mores of the group. That is the difference - no other. In an upstat
group, at the first pinprick Joe would probably have a black eye!
--- See details on http://www.icon.fi/~marina/clrbaby/index.htm ----
Steve A
In alt.religion.scientology, ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk
(Ralph Hilton) wrote:
[ralph's experiences of sexual abuse snipped - I'm proud to be
part of a newsgroup where we can be as candid as this]
> After quite a lot of auditing in Scientology I came to face my
> experiences as a child. I learned to relate sexually to a woman and
> share pleasure with her without the eternal shadow of that abuse. For
> that change I have to thank LRH and Scientology because without him
> and his work I don't think it would have occurred.
In this regard, I can see how auditing could be similar to
psychotherapy in getting people to open those doors in their
minds. As I mentioned in my post, I spent years convincing myself
that the abuse was behind me, and that I could handle it, then I
found out, thanks to a coincidental meeting with one of my
abusers that I was fooling myself. Auditing could, I imagine,
provide a less catastrophic means of dealing with such a
situation, but I don't believe it is offering anything that a
skilled counsellor couldn't achieve and these benefits are in any
case tangential to Hubbard's original idea of auditing being a
"scientific" means of doing stuff with the mind.
Still, it's nice to know that even Scientology has managed to
make some contribution to the world...
--
ObDenial: I am not Arthur Stevens of Crawley.
ObURLS:
Beginners: http://www.tiac.net/users/modemac/cos.html
In-depth: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/scientology/home.html
Harassment: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/scientology/harass/timeline-95.html
Fools, losers, and mugs: http://www.scientology.org
SP4, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12
Child molesters! Join Scientology and grope with impunity!
IN MEMORIAM: Richard Collins, victim of the criminal cult of Scientology
IN MEMORIAM: anon.penet.fi, rema...@utopia.hacktic.nl, victims of the
criminal cult of Scientology.
Steve A
> I agree - the real strength is in oneself - I would also say that the
> the strength of the tech or therapy is in the way that it allows one
> to find one's own inner strength.
But there can never be a "one size fits all" answer, and that is
what Hubbard was claiming - that Dianetics/Scientology were THE
answer to everything.
But yes, if auditing is able to enable one to deal with these
traumas, and it doesn't do any harm (which I can believe, if it
is being delivered outside the abusive and controlling confines
of the "Church" of Scientology), then fine.
It's a bit like chiropractic, which is based around some fairly
far-fetched theories, but which, even if you disregard the claims
on which it is based, is still a very good way (for some people)
of dealing with back problems.
Lance S. Buckley
The deeply suppressive ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk (Ralph
Hilton) managed to write during a rare fit of reasonableness:
> After quite a lot of auditing in Scientology I came to face my
>experiences as a child. I learned to relate sexually to a woman and
>share pleasure with her without the eternal shadow of that abuse. For
>that change I have to thank LRH and Scientology because without him
>and his work I don't think it would have occurred.
Thanks Ralph.
I know that must have been a tough thing to do. I'm going to
think on this a while before I follow-up properly. It deserves
more than a knee-jerk response.
Be well.
Lance.
--
http://www.avalon.demon.co.uk/
"We would only destroy people who attempt to harm Scientology"
Jaques Vollet, Ex-head of GO-B1(Eu) currently head of OSA Invest(Eu)
[ SP4 : GGBC #26 : ARSCC(UK) : J&D : KoX : KbM #11 ]
My Other Hat's A Fedora
Jens Tingleff
In article <324b434...@news.idiscover.co.uk>,
ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk (Ralph Hilton) wrote:
> I'm starting this as another thread because it doesn't belong
> as a follow up. I've read the posts about Tony Strawn and his crime.
> The CofS seem to have tried to cover it up which, if the posts
> are true, I accept as wrong.
> However, perhaps as an alternative viewpoint on Scientology I
> have to tell my story.
Ralph
Sorry to hear you went though this, and glad to hear that you were able to
overcome it.
In my view you are right: sharing personal experiences in this way is far
more useful that spluttering about "big wins."
Your post has reminded me that some people *do* benefit from the services
(or whatever) in the co$. This needs to be kept in mind for anyone who
wants to gain a full understanding of the co$ (so that they may
effectively oppose the wrong-doings of the co$).
While we can agree or disagree on whether the "tech" works, critics of the
co$ need an awareness of the variety of reasons that adherents of the co$
are faithful. Painting *all* members as brainwashed morons who would
unconditionally be better off outside the church (however that could be
brought about), does not give the insight necessary for relating to *all*
of the co$ - not just the criminals and the deluded.
Jens
------ No PGP signature, no authenticity. Vive La France!! ----------
Scientology[tm] ?? Check it out at http://www.scientology.org *and*
http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/scientology/home.html
Report interesting conclusions to alt.religion.scientology ;-)
Windmurfer
Im Artikel <324BB3...@atnet.at>, clear baby <con...@atnet.at>
schreibt:
>Ralph Hilton wrote:
>> I note that Scientologists, in posting to a.r.s. never talk
>> about themselves. They only talk about Scientology. I only hear very
>> generalized statements. In my 5 months on a.r.s. Heidrun is the only
>> Scientologist I have heard make a personal statement.
>Maybe - but this too has limits.
Hallo Clear baby Schatz
lies doch mal meinen Story
My story
http://www.thur.de/religio/therapie/sc/juer.html
Auf wunsch kann ich sie dir auch mailen
PS Wer bist Du eigentlich?
txtbreed
ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk (Ralph Hilton), in
alt.religion.scientology:
:: [...]
:: However, perhaps as an alternative viewpoint on Scientology I
:: have to tell my story.
:: [...]
It takes courage to post such awful personal experiences in a
newsgroup. I feel honoured.
Regards,
Patricia
clear baby
Windmurfer wrote:
> Hallo Clear baby Schatz
> [sweetheart]
Hi Schatz!
Hi darling!
> lies doch mal meinen Story [go and read my story]
> My story
> http://www.thur.de/religio/therapie/sc/juer.html
Hab ich schon längst!
I did so already!
> Auf wunsch kann ich sie dir auch mailen [I can also mail it if you wish]
Nein danke!
No thanks!
> PS Wer bist Du eigentlich? [Who in the world are you?]
Bei genauerer Betrachtung: ich bin ich!
If I think about it for a while: I am myself!
Martin G. V. Hunt
Ralph Hilton wrote:
> I note that Scientologists, in posting to a.r.s. never talk
> about themselves. They only talk about Scientology. I only hear very
> generalized statements. In my 5 months on a.r.s. Heidrun is the only
> Scientologist I have heard make a personal statement.
Whip talked about his plumbing, Jack talked about his business, but
you're right; it's rare.
Still, I don't talk about myself much either; who here knows I'm married,
or my son's name, or what I do for a living or anything else about me,
really?
This is a one-dimentional plane of existence, and much goes on away
from here...
--
Cogito, ergo sum.
Art Online oil paintings: http://www.islandnet.com/~martinh/homepage.html
Scientology FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282
Richmann
>
> >> I note that Scientologists, in posting to a.r.s. never talk
> >> about themselves. They only talk about Scientology. I only hear very
> >> generalized statements. In my 5 months on a.r.s. Heidrun is the only
> >> Scientologist I have heard make a personal statement.
Well, this IS ars and not alt.richmann.ego.
But if you want to get personnal, you can e-mail me.
We might even get to discover new post subjects.
Ciao.
**********************************************************************
Richmann Rich...@sympatico.ca
“Was micht nicht umbringt, mach mich stärker”
“That which does not kill me, makes me stronger” Nietzsche
**********************************************************************
Anastasia Sidorowich
Martin G. V. Hunt wrote:
>
> Ralph Hilton wrote:
>
> > I note that Scientologists, in posting to a.r.s. never talk
> > about themselves. They only talk about Scientology. I only hear very
> > generalized statements. In my 5 months on a.r.s. Heidrun is the only
> > Scientologist I have heard make a personal statement.
>
> you're right; it's rare.
>
> Still, I don't talk about myself much either; who here knows I'm married,
> or my son's name, or what I do for a living or anything else about me,
> really?
>
I thought you had written you have two sons. From that I assumed you
were married, as fathers rarely get custody. Or was it meant to be
a trick question? (And no, I don't know the kids' names.)
Anastasia
Bernie
ra...@xenologics.idiscover.co.uk (Ralph Hilton) wrote:
> Thus I respect people like Arianne and Stevea and many others
>who have talked about themselves on a.r.s. far more than those who say
>they have had wins from scn but say nothing real about themselves.
Thanks a lot Ralph, it really hit the target.
---------
Bernie