Michael Pattinson ..... A portrait in confusion
tobe
Church because they had not been able to rid him of his homosexual
urges, as they had promised.
I thought, "Gee, someone pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to
distance themselves from a desire they continually mock up, if that
didn't get handled as a problem that was an error!"
But then I thought, " I've never read anything anywhere on
homosexuality getting handled in Scientology, and he hasn't either!"
Anyway, I moved on. But in the back of my mind I wondered how someone
could stay on for so many years, going on to level after level, writing
success story after success story after success story, saying over and
over each time how he wanted other people to have the same wins as he,
and then when finished with everything the place had to offer, ask for
his money back and claim dissapointment.
Well, now I know.
He didn't want anyone to have any wins he had, if he did have a win or
didn't we don't know because he says he does and then asks for refunds.
He praises Scientology in success stories and then posts in little
whispers warning others of dissappointment.
He is posting his apologies on ARS and telling everyone how sorry he is
that they have been lied to.
By him I guess?
Didn't he write like hundreds of success stories?
At first glance one might see it as 1.1.
But in fact after reading his posts, he is quite into approval from
bodies.
He was in the church for applause.
Now he is here for applause.
He holds up his art for applause.
He held up his status in the Church for applause.
He holds up his disaffection for applause..
It seems the only stable datumn he has is that he is looking for more
applause.
If you notice he posts his originations publicly, yet none of the
replies.
He is total theatre.
I recently posted on another list it was confusing to see someone go
all the way through OT8 and then ask for a refund.
But it makes sense now. He simply said whatever brought him applause
everytime he finished a level!
What about that?
What about your lies Michael?
And how is the Church of Scientology supposed to deal with this
successfully?
How many of you here have had a lover who needed constant applause, who
said whatever you needed to hear for the moment.
This isn't an issue of critics or reason, this is the stuff of broken
hearts.
And how can one hold such a confused and bankrupt human being
responsible?
best...
Android Cat
> Anyway, I moved on.
To right near Hemet, yes.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.110.65.193
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Murrieta,+California&spn=0.419127,0.819305&t=h&hl=en
--
Ron of that ilk.
Magoo
"tobe" <frommyv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132037817....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Take your head out of your ASS.......please.
You're embarrassing.
Tory/Magoo!
>
roger gonnet
> At first glance one might see it as 1.1.
at first glance you're a poor soul.
r
Larry T.
This is so rude of you.
Like Michael would know that already, and looking down the thing it appears
Magoo and Roger came out to respond. Figures. Why say stuff like that for?
--
Larry T.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoqz2m/diary/
Asmodeus
nothing but malignant tripe
> best...
Dear Best or whatever,
Your tactic is really sickening, abhorrent and degraded.
How much do they pay you for being such a perverted troll?
realpch
>
> I first read this name on the net as an OT8 who wanted money from the
> Church because they had not been able to rid him of his homosexual
> urges, as they had promised.
>
> I thought, "Gee, someone pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to
> distance themselves from a desire they continually mock up, if that
> didn't get handled as a problem that was an error!"
Yes, there was an error. L. Ron Hubbard stated that homosexuality is an
abberation. A number of other people have said the same thing. Though,
thank god, many people are saying, "Gee, it looks like homosexuality is
naturally occurring phenomenon, and an accident of birth, like having
brown eyes."
> But then I thought, " I've never read anything anywhere on
> homosexuality getting handled in Scientology, and he hasn't either!"
>
> Anyway, I moved on. But in the back of my mind I wondered how someone
> could stay on for so many years, going on to level after level, writing
> success story after success story after success story, saying over and
> over each time how he wanted other people to have the same wins as he,
> and then when finished with everything the place had to offer, ask for
> his money back and claim dissapointment.
>
> Well, now I know.
Ah, commeth the brainstorm....
> He didn't want anyone to have any wins he had, if he did have a win or
> didn't we don't know because he says he does and then asks for refunds.
> He praises Scientology in success stories and then posts in little
> whispers warning others of dissappointment.
Well, more like a gust of wind...
> He is posting his apologies on ARS and telling everyone how sorry he is
> that they have been lied to.
>
> By him I guess?
>
> Didn't he write like hundreds of success stories?
Part of the job of an Scientologist moving up the bridge is to write
success stories. And the more you move up the bridge, the more you gotta write.
> At first glance one might see it as 1.1.
>
> But in fact after reading his posts, he is quite into approval from
> bodies.
Arf, arf. Approval from bodies can be a swell thing, superior to
approval from disembodied spirits, or approval from boxes of oatmeal.
> He was in the church for applause.
>
> Now he is here for applause.
>
> He holds up his art for applause.
>
> He held up his status in the Church for applause.
>
> He holds up his disaffection for applause..
>
> It seems the only stable datumn he has is that he is looking for more
> applause.
>
> If you notice he posts his originations publicly, yet none of the
> replies.
>
> He is total theatre.
>
> I recently posted on another list it was confusing to see someone go
> all the way through OT8 and then ask for a refund.
>
> But it makes sense now. He simply said whatever brought him applause
> everytime he finished a level!
>
> What about that?
Ohhhh! Sounds like The Green-Eyed Monster to me.
> What about your lies Michael?
>
> And how is the Church of Scientology supposed to deal with this
> successfully?
>
> How many of you here have had a lover who needed constant applause, who
> said whatever you needed to hear for the moment.
>
> This isn't an issue of critics or reason, this is the stuff of broken
> hearts.
>
> And how can one hold such a confused and bankrupt human being
> responsible?
>
> best...
You're right. I'm not gonna hold you responsible for posting the above.
After all, you were just doing it for approval.
Peach
Larry T.
news:4379BD85...@aol.com...
This is the exact topic that caused me to have a problem originally when I
first posted to this newsgroup.
Some person named El Queso started fighting with me in the newsgroup that
"Who the hell was I to say that being gay is wrong?", and then Barb jumped
and that was the end of any serious discussion about Scientology in this
newsgroup. As a matter of fact, Barb posted just a few weeks ago that SHE
had gotten an E-Mail from El Queso! But, getting back to the point, what
does being a queer have to do with Scientology anyway? How did that part
enter into the picture?
Eldonbraun
rite with Jack Parsons? There is such a thing as projection, you know.
realpch
Larry, you're a jerk.
Peach
barb
Who the hell are you?
Word clear "fraud."
The cult made a promise.
He didn't get the results.
Fraud. QED. I'd be pissed off if I'd wasted all that money on vaporware
as well. I would want to warn people not to make the same mistake.
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
pt...@webtv.net
Typical RFW type back slam and attack effort!
Tobe, are you related to HCO Bring Order?
Tom
---------------
www.fairgamed.org
Michael Pattinson
Attacks from trolls and OSA's obvoius frustrations are some of the
best compliments I can get on, apart from my a.r.s. friends sticking up
for me which I doooo appreciate.
Tobe, your frantic and vindictive guesses are wrong on every count.
As for the cures LRH made about being gay...try Handbook for Preclears,
I think it is chapter 14, and Dianetics promises in DMSMH and Nots
promises, etc...
You are the model Scientologist when dealing with reality, as the
little glob world of the cult has nothing to do with the real world
that you are actually supposed to be living in.
I guess you should post under "Not-to-be".
Michael Pattinson
attacked and tricked by Scientology and Dianetics.
Your "portrait of confusion" is written about in HCOPL The Criminal
Mind (LRH's best autobiography).
It is what your group is doing, and then trying to shift it over to
others such as myself as a smoke screen.
OSA PR deals in nothing else than media confusion, lies and deceit.
Not good for business....
Mike O'Connor
"Michael Pattinson" <mpatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It looks my open letter really hit home on OSA.
Congrats Mr. Pattinson, that's just what I was thinking as soon as I saw
the previous message. Along with many others, I'm sure.
I don't understand why people post messages such as the previous. Do
they think people will read the content and swallow the point of view
they are selling? Reality is just the opposite. People, even new people
IMO, see such a message and think "why is this tactic being used? What
is the story on Pattinson, that he is worthy of being a target of this
sort of attack? Maybe I should read up more on Pattinson, see what it's
about." Then you come in, others chime in, URLs are posted, the reader
sees where to go for more info, and so on.
The net effect is that the person who the attacker is talking to is much
more likely to become aware of you, read your story, read the reactions
to the attack, and be much more aware than if the attacker hadn't posted
at all! Simultaneously, a negative impression of Scientology is created
as the type of people who attempt smears and character assassination
rather than use reason and positivity. And wait till they find out that
such tactics are written right into the religion's sacred scriptures!
Why don't the writers of such attackers understand this? Makes me wonder
what the collective IQ is over there.
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Remember Lisa McPherson
tobe
get you!
Sorry, I am not in your cops and robbers game. Neither am a protestor.
There are people out here in the Freezone who reserve the right to
practice their religion. I obviously stirred up a gnarley reaction!
You have no idea who I am or why I have an issue with Mr. Pattinson do
you? Look at the conclusions you have come to! You have already
conducted a comm ev! What is the source of all your information? Your
REACTION contains false data for you to operate with.
I am not OSA. I am someone who spent a lot of time getting someone
else in a third world country who needs help, interested in auditing.
That person has read Mr. Pattinsons web site and withdrawn interest now
from helping themself with auditing.
That is how I became introduced to Mr. Pattinson.
I have a low IQ?
I have my head up my ass?
Look at all the conclusions you people generated from my post!
You aren't even interested in my story or who I am. Or why or how Mr.
Pattinson has run interference in MY life.
It is just total REACTION and ATTACK.
And I have a low IQ?
I have my head up my ass?
Your scope of view is relative to your interest, and you are a wide
departure from any interest factor.
Your madness id bleeding onto my plate and my cycles and I have no
interest in this group. I do have personal rights to get on with my
life and my interests without this hate group spilling over onto my
breakfast table.
The A=A on where I happen to live is a product of someones A=A
paranoia.
Back to you.
Skip Press
Michael Pattinson <mpatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
First "Clear" John McMaster, gay.
Celebrity Centre's top registrar for over a decade, gay.
Quentin Hubbard, bi at the least.
Top top male $cientology celebrities whose closet activities are an
open secret in Hollywood.
I needn't go on. I love the cheap shots $cientologists POSTING
ANONYMOUSLY take.
It just shows how soulless they are.
--
If Virtue & Knowledge are diffused among the People, they will never be
enslav'd. This will be their great Security.
-- Samuel Adams
tobe
HUGE CLUE about me that I live in Riverside county! Aren't you the
clever one! And now that you have explored my life up close and
personal you have aroused my curiosity in YOU!
I am not staff neither OSA. I don't need a persmission slip or an FP
to go out exploring!
Let's see how creative we are at finding out who one another is! Where
we live and work and who we both know!
We may have friends in common!
best..
barb
> What! Have you gone paranoid type 3 now? Yes! I must be OSA coming to
> get you!
> Sorry, I am not in your cops and robbers game. Neither am a protestor.
> There are people out here in the Freezone who reserve the right to
> practice their religion. I obviously stirred up a gnarley reaction!
> You have no idea who I am or why I have an issue with Mr. Pattinson do
> you? Look at the conclusions you have come to! You have already
> conducted a comm ev! What is the source of all your information? Your
> REACTION contains false data for you to operate with.
I'd say our reaction is pretty normal to someone who comes in with ad
hominem attacks. Based on your post, I think you're a jerk with limited
communication skills. Can't discuss? Then just call names. Jerk.
Obviously we have no idea who you are, since you hide behind anonymity.
As to why? Who cares...you're prolly just jealous.
>
> I am not OSA. I am someone who spent a lot of time getting someone
> else in a third world country who needs help, interested in auditing.
> That person has read Mr. Pattinsons web site and withdrawn interest now
> from helping themself with auditing.
>
> That is how I became introduced to Mr. Pattinson.
Aha! Mr. Pattinson saved someone from the all-consuming maw of Ron.
VWD, Michael! I hope the person moves on to read xenu.net,
narconon-exposed.org, lermanet.com and other informative sites.
Were you gonna get a cut of the proceeds and now you aren't? Po' baby!
>
> I have a low IQ?
Maybe.
>
> I have my head up my ass?
Certainly.
>
> Look at all the conclusions you people generated from my post!
>
> You aren't even interested in my story or who I am. Or why or how Mr.
> Pattinson has run interference in MY life.
I get it. You tried to sucker someone into Hubbardville. Pattinson saved
your victim before you could get your clutches on them. Too bad so sad,
boo hoo.
>
> It is just total REACTION and ATTACK.
>
> And I have a low IQ?
Maybe.
>
> I have my head up my ass?
Almost certainly.
>
> Your scope of view is relative to your interest, and you are a wide
> departure from any interest factor.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Not.
>
> Your madness id bleeding onto my plate and my cycles and I have no
> interest in this group. I do have personal rights to get on with my
> life and my interests without this hate group spilling over onto my
> breakfast table.
Not when your interests collide with innocent, unwary Raw Meat, they
don't. Why don't you run along and go audit yourself!
>
> The A=A on where I happen to live is a product of someones A=A
> paranoia.
>
> Back to you.
And you call US mad? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! </tomcruise> Oh, my, best laugh
I've had all day!
I really, really hate people who prey on unwitting victims. Good for
Michael for snatching this one away from you before it was too late.
Sorry for your loss. (NOT!)
roger gonnet
"Michael Pattinson" <mpatt...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1132081093....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Oh, yes, and I have no confusion at all about having been defrauded,
> attacked and tricked by Scientology and Dianetics.
>
> Your "portrait of confusion" is written about in HCOPL The Criminal
> Mind (LRH's best autobiography).
well, i would rather vote for "Science or survival" descriptions of the 1,1s.
That's exactly the sold fat hypocrite hubbard.
Larry T.
news:1132080769.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Michael:
You are not the only one.
Have you ever seen Phil Scott's "Dear OSA" or "Dear Church of Scientology"
posts? They are the real trend setters in Usenet.
Michael Pattinson
already!
FZ...a second stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
source.
Not a popular viewpoint, but realistic none the less.
Hubbard didn't even go O.T. If he did he would not have trusted DM and
died like he did.
If he couldn't get there with his own tech how could anyone else?
tobe
everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
entertain you in your off time from the monitors?
You can be honest here, as you can see for yourself there is nothing
you would say here that would have your friends withdraw their
allegience.
I have assigned you confusion.
I will not inherit this condition for myself.
That's what counts where I'm at.
I'm done in this neighborhood.
I leave you all to your own conditions.
to be
Michael Pattinson
tobe
Was that confidential pc data?
gee, well with so many tech terminals leaving the Church and posting on
the net who knows what's to come from where these days?
The important thing is we can let it all hang out right?
later..
Michael Pattinson
Nov 15, 3:03 pm
"And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
entertain you in your off time from the monitors?"
tobe..what are you inferring?
Muldoon
The term "Free Zone" originated with the deluded "Captain" Bill
Robertson, and, as with many terms in Scientology, has a misleading
double-meaning.
The "Ron's Orgs" meaning of "Free Zone" is based on Hubbard's bad
Sci-fi cosmology. ("Galactic Confederation," etc.)
Then - for public consumption - it has an added definition of simply
being an area where "Scientology can be done outside the C of $."
Unfortunately, "Ron's Orgs" people are LRH fan club "space cadets."
"Independent Field" is probably a better term for those still providing
counseling outside the C of $ - who do _not_ buy into the "Ron's Orgs"
outlook.
So it's not just the "Free Zone" and the C of $ - There are other
choices for those who still wish to explore "auditing."
In any event, thanks much for your statement on your experiences. I
know it will help many.
Zinj
mpatt...@gmail.com says...
You mean 'implying', but what he's really demonstrating is the wonders
of 'tone level' available to those who practice the 'religion' of
Scientology.
What confuses me is how he was planning to make a killing from scamming
someone in a third world country. Was he going to fly in and deliver
auditine? Use a telephone? How was he going to sell auditine to a 3rd
world person from his home outside of Gold Base?
Or is he just whining about losing his FSM commission?
Poor baby. No wonder you're so upset that you have to make it all
better by revealing what you think is 'confidential' information from PC
folders, which the 'Church' of Scientology keeps forever just for
'cases' like this.
Wonderful 'religion' isn't it?
Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Zinj
You mean 'implying', but what he's really demonstrating is the wonders
barb
> And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
> everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
> even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
> sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
> entertain you in your off time from the monitors?
>
you libellous scum!
> You can be honest here, as you can see for yourself there is nothing
> you would say here that would have your friends withdraw their
> allegience.
You must really be pissed off. What's the matter, lose a commission?
And you have the nerve to suggest HE victimizes people! That's exactly
what you tried to do to someone. Before they were fortunate enough to
happen by his website. Pot..kettle...black as hell, bitch.
>
> I have assigned you confusion.
I have assigned you cranial-rectal inversion.
>
> I will not inherit this condition for myself.
It is one with you.
>
> That's what counts where I'm at.
>
> I'm done in this neighborhood.
>
> I leave you all to your own conditions.
Good. Make it so.
> to be
>
> Michael Pattinson wrote:
>
>>Thanks guys and gals I appreciate the back up! Wow, I got results
>>already!
>>
>>FZ...a second stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
>>source.
>>
>>Not a popular viewpoint, but realistic none the less.
>>
>>Hubbard didn't even go O.T. If he did he would not have trusted DM and
>>died like he did.
>>
>>If he couldn't get there with his own tech how could anyone else?
>
>
barb
> OOOPS!
>
> Was that confidential pc data?
>
> gee, well with so many tech terminals leaving the Church and posting on
> the net who knows what's to come from where these days?
>
> The important thing is we can let it all hang out right?
>
> later..
HE SAID, 'BYE BYE!'
And yet, you're not gone yet! Why the hell not?
>
>
> tobe wrote:
>
>>And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
>>everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
>>even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
>>sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
>>entertain you in your off time from the monitors?
>>
>>You can be honest here, as you can see for yourself there is nothing
>>you would say here that would have your friends withdraw their
>>allegience.
>>
>>I have assigned you confusion.
>>
>>I will not inherit this condition for myself.
>>
>>That's what counts where I'm at.
>>
>>I'm done in this neighborhood.
>>
>>I leave you all to your own conditions.
>>
>>to be
>>
>>Michael Pattinson wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks guys and gals I appreciate the back up! Wow, I got results
>>>already!
>>>
>>>FZ...a second stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
>>>source.
>>>
>>>Not a popular viewpoint, but realistic none the less.
>>>
>>>Hubbard didn't even go O.T. If he did he would not have trusted DM and
>>>died like he did.
>>>
>>>If he couldn't get there with his own tech how could anyone else?
>
>
barb
It's just creeping around libel, Michael. That's all. Too chickenshit to
A. post under its own name
B. come out and say what it means.
barb
I think it's something like that. But I've seen drooling Xian fundies
react the same way when you lead someone away from Jebus, so who knows?
It could just be the pain of a True Believer realizing it's lost another
soul...
Mike O'Connor
"tobe" <frommyv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm done in this neighborhood.
Attack! Attack! Attack! Attack! Attack! Then retreat. Buhbye!
That's it? You come in seething and whizz around attackkkking and then
off you go?
Is this what you thought Scientology would end up having you do? This is
the improvement you got from Scientology?
Why not come in here and talk like a normal person, Mr. I'm-not-OSA.
Ever wonder what it would like to have a normal talk with some critics?
It can be done. It IS done, look in some other threads.
Drop this thread, come back tomorrow, in some different thread, and
chime in with a more normal conversation and a higher tone. Or act like
the OSA drones we've all seen here before. It's up to you. Buhbye!
Ball of Fluff
"tobe" <frommyv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132037817....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I first read this name on the net as an OT8 who wanted money from the
> Church because they had not been able to rid him of his homosexual
> urges, as they had promised.
>
> I thought, "Gee, someone pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to
> distance themselves from a desire they continually mock up, if that
> didn't get handled as a problem that was an error!"
>
> But then I thought, " I've never read anything anywhere on
> homosexuality getting handled in Scientology, and he hasn't either!"
>
> Anyway, I moved on. But in the back of my mind I wondered how someone
> could stay on for so many years, going on to level after level, writing
> success story after success story after success story, saying over and
> over each time how he wanted other people to have the same wins as he,
> and then when finished with everything the place had to offer, ask for
> his money back and claim dissapointment.
>
> Well, now I know.
>
> He didn't want anyone to have any wins he had, if he did have a win or
> didn't we don't know because he says he does and then asks for refunds.
> He praises Scientology in success stories and then posts in little
> whispers warning others of dissappointment.
>
> He is posting his apologies on ARS and telling everyone how sorry he is
> that they have been lied to.
>
ToBe, I've read a number of your success stories on the 'net and am glad you
are getting wins from your Freezone auditing.
I LOVE your success stories.
I'm also proud to be a non CofS Scn'ist.
But, you've got Michael all wrong.
Here's what I've observed after communicating with a lot of ex members who
did not, unlike me, opt to do any Scn outside CofS.
CofS betrayed them and hurt them badly in many many cases.
Many of these people are bright individuals. They're savvy enough to know
that not only is something wrong with the organization but to observe, also,
that LRH made many mistakes as well and that he did not tell everyone
everything he was truly doing or had done.
There're some odd and negative things in his background.
Now, to me, doesn't matter. Either the methodology does something for me or
it doesn't.
But the thing is, I haven't been jerked around to the extent that a number
of other people have.
A huge betrayal, or a series of huge betrayals- that does something to a
person. I'd say what, but I'm not going to subject the ng to a spate of
Scientologese. If YOU want to hear it, feel free to email me at
amaflu...@yahoo.com.
People are said to individuate or separate themselves from areas in which
they have overts. Well, I'm sure this is the case many times, but there're
other reasons. Or, other factors.
Let's say there's a slave in ancient Rome. Considering how CofS treats its
staff and even some of its public, this is an apt analogy. So the slave gets
pissed off and escapes. Well, he individuated from that family? But is it
wrong to want to be free? No. So what's the overt? Maybe just having had the
agreement in the first place that it was ok for him to be beaten or
whatever. All an overt is, is an action or lack of action that does not
constitute the greatest good for the majority one's OWN number of dynamics.
So, yeah, he had something going that wasn't the greatest good. Then he left
that thing.
Now, suppose he goes on to tell people that nothing the Romans did was any
good. It's not true, but this guy's PISSED. Ok, well, he's wrong. They did
many things. But, well, he's adversely affected. Which is NOT the greatest
good, it's not helpful, but it's just the way it is. It's still better than
having him be a slave.
People leave CofS for many reasons. Mostly, though, because they're being
fucked with, families torn apart, money taken, etc.
This causes a person to reexamine his past experiences.
When someone experiences a great deal of pain and degradation, his reaction
is often to get as far away from the source of that as possible.
That is sane behavior.
The person may, as our hypothetical slave did, draw the wrong conclusion
about the entirety of the situation, tarring everything with one broad
brush, but you know what? That's an "overt" I would attribute to those who
hurt the person.
Yes, everyone has responsibility. But the responsibility of the victimizer
is far far far greater than that of the victim.
The slave in my example has responsibility for what he does, doesn't do and
what he thinks but the people who drove him nuts with slavery and ill
treatment have the lion's share of the responsibility.
ToBe, when I left CofS and then got expelled, I was rather upset. I was far
from home, too, having taken a job 2600 miles away where I knew like 2
people or something. The venomous wording of the expell declare, the lies in
it, the reactions of a friend of mine - this all was upsetting.
Michael Pattinson was one of the people who reached out to me (on the forum)
and do you know what? He never chided me for having done any Scn or, later,
for having continuing interest in auditing, Scn, etc. Some people have, but
he never ever did.
Considering I'm the most conspicuous target on a.r.s. (and a couple other
fourms) for that sort of treatment- that's saying something very very
positive about Michael.
I like Michael. I do not agree with him ,but I'm so happy that he is free of
duress and sadness.
He "grants me beingness".
So show me that you're as "big a being" as he is by "granting him
beingness".
C
(I guess I wasn't so successful at leaving out the Scn-ese as I'd
planned...but I wanted to say some things to ToBe on this.)
Magoo
Well, their endless lies and slander ~are~ a perfect example of the use of
Fair Game. They cannot cry, "We don't do that any more", when they have
pages of flat out lies written about people, and posted publicly on the
Internet. Ha. Ha!
Thanks, OSA< for your excellent work in providing proof of how utterly
non-religious you all really are. The only people you are fooling are those
inside the Scio/Truman show with their heads in the sand.
Time is on our side. All they have to do is pull it up ONCE, and bingo!
They're free.
Best to you, Michael :)
Tory/Magoo~~
Magoo
> And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
> everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
> even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
> sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
> entertain you in your off time from the monitors?
>
> You can be honest here, as you can see for yourself there is nothing
> you would say here that would have your friends withdraw their
> allegience.
>
> I have assigned you confusion.
>
> I will not inherit this condition for myself.
>
> That's what counts where I'm at.
>
> I'm done in this neighborhood.
>
> I leave you all to your own conditions.
It's always amazing to me to read the self-righteous utter crap that
Scientologists within C of S write about others. Their ASSumptions
are worse than ridiculous................and they sound SO stupid.
Even when I was "in"....this I could see, and was why I told OSA,
"You're C R E A T I N G your own enemies.
They do a terrific job of it.
Congratulations on such fantastic SP products!
Tory/Magoo~~
X-Scientologist after 30 years "in"
Out for 5 years now
FREE AT LAST :)
www.xenu.net
Muldoon
On this same thread, it's been stated that "ToBE" is a "Free Zone"
person.
There are naive and fanatical-sounding writings by a "ToBe" posted on
ACT and elsewhere.
What's with that?
realpch
>
> Michael Pattinson wrote:
>
> > tobe
> > Nov 15, 3:03 pm
> >
> > "And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
> > everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
> > even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
> > sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
> > entertain you in your off time from the monitors?"
> >
> >
> >
> > tobe..what are you inferring?
> >
> It's just creeping around libel, Michael. That's all. Too chickenshit to
> A. post under its own name
> B. come out and say what it means.
>
> --
> --barb
> Chaplain,ARSCC
> xenu...@netscape.net
Oh dear. Ok, everybody here who ever taught kids or did any babysitting,
you're on notice! Smarmy insinuations may be made.
Peach
Magoo
"Muldoon" <bria...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:1132117989....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I don't know this person, but Ball of Fluff seems to, referring to his/her
'successes' in a later post here.
?
Perhaps she can fill you in.
Tory/Magoo~
>
barb
Buh, buh, but...fair game was cancelled, wasn't it?
<snicker>
Ball of Fluff
"Asmodeus" <sca...@spiesonline.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:1132043573....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> tobe wrote:
> nothing but malignant tripe
>> best...
>
> Dear Best or whatever,
>
> Your tactic is really sickening, abhorrent and degraded.
>
> How much do they pay you for being such a perverted troll?
ToBe isn't part of CofS. ToBe is a FreeZoner and is, therefore, making these
statements of his own volition.
C
Ball of Fluff
> It looks my open letter really hit home on OSA.
ToBe is a Freezoner.
C
Ball of Fluff
"Muldoon" <bria...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:1132117989....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>> "tobe" <frommyv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1132095799....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
>> > everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
>> > even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
>> > sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
>> > entertain you in your off time from the monitors?
>> >
>> > You can be honest here, as you can see for yourself there is nothing
>> > you would say here that would have your friends withdraw their
>> > allegience.
>> >
>> > I have assigned you confusion.
>> >
>> > I will not inherit this condition for myself.
>> >
>> > That's what counts where I'm at.
>> >
>> > I'm done in this neighborhood.
>> >
>> > I leave you all to your own conditions.
>>
>> It's always amazing to me to read the self-righteous utter crap that
>> Scientologists within C of S write about others.
And some non CofS Scn'ists. ToBe isn't a church member. Not 'less there's
another ToBe running around, which I doubt.
>Their ASSumptions
>> are worse than ridiculous................and they sound SO stupid.
>>
>> Even when I was "in"....this I could see, and was why I told OSA,
>> "You're C R E A T I N G your own enemies.
>> They do a terrific job of it.
>>
>> Congratulations on such fantastic SP products!
>>
>> Tory/Magoo~~
>> X-Scientologist after 30 years "in"
>> Out for 5 years now
>> FREE AT LAST :)
>> www.xenu.net
>>
>> >
>> > to be
>> >
>> > Michael Pattinson wrote:
>> >> Thanks guys and gals I appreciate the back up! Wow, I got results
>> >> already!
>> >>
>> >> FZ...a second stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
>> >> source.
>> >>
>> >> Not a popular viewpoint, but realistic none the less.
>> >>
>> >> Hubbard didn't even go O.T. If he did he would not have trusted DM and
>> >> died like he did.
>> >>
>> >> If he couldn't get there with his own tech how could anyone else?
>> >
>
> On this same thread, it's been stated that "ToBE" is a "Free Zone"
> person.
>
> There are naive and fanatical-sounding
I'd say more "fervent". This is the way all success stories sound, when
posted on their own.
> writings by a "ToBe" posted on
> ACT and elsewhere.
>
> What's with that?
Some FreeZoners don't like critics and wholeheartedly buy into Hubbard's
PTS/SP tech.
C
Ball of Fluff
"barb" <bwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:437a888d$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> Michael Pattinson wrote:
>
>> tobe
>> Nov 15, 3:03 pm
>>
>> "And while you are at it with your cluster here Michael, thanking
>> everybody for their back up and applause....why don't you clue them in
>> even further on exactly what age of people prefer for company? I am
>> sure many of your followers have six year olds, five year olds, to
>> entertain you in your off time from the monitors?"
>>
>>
>>
>> tobe..what are you inferring?
>>
> It's just creeping around libel, Michael. That's all. Too chickenshit to
> A. post under its own name
> B. come out and say what it means.
ToBe always posts under his nick. The use of the nick has nothing to do with
anything.
I think I may have seen his or her real name around, not sure. Don't really
care.
He's said exactly what he thinks, too, so B doesn't apply, really.
I do not in any way agree with ToBe on this. I like Michael.
This isn't, however, just Scn fundamentalism (which we have in the FZ,
though nowhere near as much), it's probably more than ToBe feels that
something he cares deeply about is being crapped on.
I understand this but I don't think that it justifies slamming Michael and I
know that ToBe does not understand how Michael feels or his motivations.
Michael Pattinson is a nice and sincere person.
Generally, the assholes come out of the woodwork when I'm around, and I've
never ever had one cross word from Michael.
Disagreement over Scn ideology does not automatically constitute bad
intentions.
People are colored by and, to some extent, a reflection of their
experiences.
This is true of ToBe and of Michael P. And, I suppose of all of us.
I'd like to see ToBe essay a little grace and class and listen to and talk
to Michael instead of talking at and about him. Why? because that's how
Michael treats people.
Michael deserved better, but I understand the true believer mindset.
It's not an OSA thing. The FZ doesn't have an OSA.
But, Scn'ist or not, people who feel that something they care about is
negated tend to sometimes lash out.
It doesn't make it right, but it's what's going on here.
The thing to do, though, is to either ignore Michael's post or to politely
discuss it, as I did.
C
Muldoon
I looked at the "Free Zone" link - in a "ToBe" posting - and found it
to be "Ron's Orgs."
The Ron's Orgs people I have known - long term "top" people - have
demonstrated two things:
1) They are not up front about what they actually believe, i.e., they
_are_ fanatical followers of "RON," but hide it when dealing with
outsiders.
2) They are obsessed with e-meters/Xenu/Hubbardian
"Implants"/BTs/Clusters of BTs/"Org Boards" of BTs/the "Galactic
Federation," etc.
The point is that the term "Free Zone" is, unfortunately, confusing and
misleading.
There are people who still provide auditing services who don't accept
this "Ron's Orgs" outlook.
Muldoon
Muldoon wrote:
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
-snip-
> > > On this same thread, it's been stated that "ToBE" is a "Free Zone"
> > > person.
> > >
> > > There are naive and fanatical-sounding
> >
> > I'd say more "fervent". This is the way all success stories sound, when
> > posted on their own.
"Success Stories" from the nutty and fanatical Ron's Orgs scene may
sometimes sound this way.
However, I've read non C of $ (and non Ron's Orgs) "success stories"
which are quite different.
Lagniappe
>I first read this name on the net as an OT8 who wanted money from the
>Church because they had not been able to rid him of his homosexual
>urges, as they had promised.
>
>I thought, "Gee, someone pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to
>distance themselves from a desire they continually mock up, if that
>didn't get handled as a problem that was an error!"
Tobe, I highly advise you to get get your FPRD R/D and calm down.
If you wish to handle people, get trained, and stop evaluating and
invalidating people just because they don't have your same point of
view. Sheesh!
Lagniappe
Muldoon
According to bb, "ToBe" has just completed a "long and deep run on OT
2&3." (Paraphrase.)
Probably what he really needs is several years away from any more
"Hubbard Guidance."
Zinj
Lagn...@noemail.com says...
If I understand 'tobe's' whine correctly, he was complaining that
Michael Pattinson, by maintaining a website expressing his own opinions
and recounting his own experiences in Scientology interfered with
'tobe's' business dealings with a 'third world person' whom 'tobe' was
hoping to snag into a 'therapeutic relationship', which is apparently
'tobe's' business.
Although Michael's website in no way referred to 'tobe', the information
Michael presented on his website specifically about Scientology and
auditing allowed the 'mark' to escape the entrapment before being
successfully gaffed, which cost 'tobe' money, which in turn, upset
'tobe'.
Tch tch.
Michael Pattinson
Mc(Un)Cleareye, Captain of the Galactic Starship, Bill Robertson, et
alia...) like OSA footbullets Scn. It is a pity that such a lot of
really nice people are STILL taken in by the false profit.
FZ = another stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
source. Do Not Drink.
Ball of Fluff
Michael Pattinson wrote:
> ToBe seems to be footbulleting the FZ (Freak Zone, as in Mike
> Mc(Un)Cleareye, Captain of the Galactic Starship, Bill Robertson, et
> alia...) like OSA footbullets Scn. It is a pity that such a lot of
> really nice people are STILL taken in by the false profit.
Not really a question of prophets or profits.
>
> FZ = another stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
> source. Do Not Drink.
No, Michael. You're wrong about that.
Self righteous people who slam others, as ToBe did toward you, can be
found anywhere and everywhere. It's a question of free will.
I don't think Hubbard has anything to do with it in this case. I think
ToBe felt that something he cared about was being crapped on.
I know how he feels but I also know that not everyone has the same
perspective as I would and that that's just the way it is.
I have a motto for such situations:
"However it seems to me, isn't how it's going to seem to the other guy"
It would be a good motto for ToBe to learn.
It's one Hubbard discussed, actually, in his writings on "pan
determinism".
C
Larry T.
news:1132189596.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
That is what the world is all about today since Scientology was introduced
to people.
--
Larry T.
http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan/
The Salt is back!
tobe wrote:
> I first read this name on the net as an OT8 who wanted money from the
> Church because they had not been able to rid him of his homosexual
> urges, as they had promised.
>
> I thought, "Gee, someone pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to
> distance themselves from a desire they continually mock up, if that
> didn't get handled as a problem that was an error!"
>
> homosexuality getting handled in Scientology, and he hasn't either!"
>
> Anyway, I moved on. But in the back of my mind I wondered how someone
> could stay on for so many years, going on to level after level, writing
> success story after success story after success story, saying over and
> over each time how he wanted other people to have the same wins as he,
> and then when finished with everything the place had to offer, ask for
> his money back and claim dissapointment.
>
> Well, now I know.
>
> He didn't want anyone to have any wins he had, if he did have a win or
> didn't we don't know because he says he does and then asks for refunds.
> He praises Scientology in success stories and then posts in little
> whispers warning others of dissappointment.
>
> He is posting his apologies on ARS and telling everyone how sorry he is
> that they have been lied to.
>
>
> Didn't he write like hundreds of success stories?
>
> At first glance one might see it as 1.1.
>
> But in fact after reading his posts, he is quite into approval from
> bodies.
>
> He was in the church for applause.
>
> Now he is here for applause.
>
> He holds up his art for applause.
>
> He held up his status in the Church for applause.
>
> He holds up his disaffection for applause..
>
> It seems the only stable datumn he has is that he is looking for more
> applause.
>
> If you notice he posts his originations publicly, yet none of the
> replies.
>
> He is total theatre.
>
> I recently posted on another list it was confusing to see someone go
> all the way through OT8 and then ask for a refund.
>
> But it makes sense now. He simply said whatever brought him applause
> everytime he finished a level!
>
> What about that?
>
> What about your lies Michael?
>
> And how is the Church of Scientology supposed to deal with this
> successfully?
>
> How many of you here have had a lover who needed constant applause, who
> said whatever you needed to hear for the moment.
>
> This isn't an issue of critics or reason, this is the stuff of broken
> hearts.
>
> And how can one hold such a confused and bankrupt human being
> responsible?
>
> best...
Michael Pattinson is a SP, no doubt about it. I also know that he used
the orgs to sell his pictures, and when the market somehow was
saturated, I assume he had the idea to become famous as "citic" and
"alleged victim" and to find a new market for his stuff.
Barbara Schwarz
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
http://www.pressbox.co.uk/detailed/Internet/DAVID_TOURETZKY_LYING_ABO...
http://www.pressbox.co.uk/detailed/Internet/DAVID_TOURETZKY_-_DESTROY...
Other interesting websites:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
tobe
everyone in Scientology and all of their resources for whatever he had.
He came into Latin America, Mexico, and piggy backed off people there
for MONTHS. When he finally left there he came into Clearwater and
third partied them all for paying people what everyone else was paying
them too. He caused lots of grief and third party for the people he
treated him so kindly in Mexico. The Agami's were in sec checks and
chaplains courts up to their necks. He got through OT8, and he had
WITHELD the reasons WHY for his sec checks and ethics handleings here.
He asked for a refund from the Church then and sued John Travolta as
well. Everyone who ever reached to support this man has had their hand
bitten. I've been independent Scientology for years now and have only
been in one scrap, when the U.S. freezoners turned on Ralph Hilton. I
am a busy person. I can't devote hours and hours a day of my life into
anti anti anti anti anti anti anti hobbies. Besides that, anti anti
anti anti ranters give me a headache, just plain drag for company. And
I imagine they have time for all the anti anti anti effort because no
one else can stand to be the their company either. I could care less
what the CofS is doing these days and I could care less to hear the
endless protest chanting of the anti anti anti anti CofS protesters on
ars. Isn't there ANYTHING else you people can find to do in life?
Your whining is becoming an annoyance. Your little witch hunts and
discoveries are pathetic. For those that have left it seems you still
haven't moved onto any place. You still spend your lives talking about
Scientology you are just on the other side. You are still in the game!
It must be the only game you are still interested in! So here is
Michael the worlds biggest ungrateful sponge. He got his bridge, he got
his money back, he got all sorts of perks for all those years...when
will he be happy and move on? NO! He has to whine all over the net now
and fuck up my cycles getting people on the bridge. And now the time
has come for you people to understand one thing. There is a HUGE
Scientology independent network of people practicing thier religion in
a quiet way without bothering anyone else. And your noise and whining
and continuos protests are starting to bleed onto our table too. And we
are not a big organization with restsraints and liabilities, we are
PEOPLE with rights you are starting to suppress. So not only do we
have the copyright issues to contend with you, we have YOU, and we have
no crimes against you. So when your noise bleeds on to our plates you
are committing injustices OVER HERE. And we as individuals have RIGHTS
that are being trampled on by YOU over there . And you will need to
take responsibility as citizens for those rights you are now violating.
And if Michael has damaged my practice, he may well be liable to ME
in court. His days of hiding behind groups may well be numbered. He
has NO RIGHT to interfere with MY LIFE. And what is his goal now?
What is he using this group for? Applause? Back up? His actions are
not even related to Scientology, look at his track record and askyour
self if YOU want to come back in YOUR next life as his MUSE! O.K., go
on and start......anti, anti, anti, anti, anti, anti, anti...........
Larry T.
> He did use the Orgs to sell his paintings and support himself. He used
> everyone in Scientology and all of their resources for whatever he had.
> He came into Latin America, Mexico, and piggy backed off people there
> for MONTHS. When he finally left there he came into Clearwater and
> third partied them all for paying people what everyone else was paying
> them too. He caused lots of grief and third party for the people he
> treated him so kindly in Mexico. The Agami's were in sec checks and
> chaplains courts up to their necks.
Vivian Agami gave her success story for when she completed OT VII on the
steps in the main lobby of the Fort Harrison when she was pregnant one
afternoon right in front of my on my way out the door to go home. Her
husband was standing right next to her trying to look all excited. She
reminds me of Alba Gloor.
--
Larry T.
http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan/
(SNIP)
tobe
Magoo wrote:
It's always amazing to me to read the self-righteous utter crap that
> Scientologists within C of S write about others. Their ASSumptions
> are worse than ridiculous................and they sound SO stupid.
You know what Magoo, you made a splash a LONG LONG time ago and your
encores are getting more and more boring. Is this the best you can't
do with your whining these days: ....and they sound so stupid!
How do you think you sound?
As far as I'm concerned you can take your monitor and shove it up your
butt.
You haven't had anything to offer people forever except your nine inch
nails.
Can't you think of ANYTHING else to talk about besides the CofS?
Can't you think of anything else to do except chant anti anti antti
protests against the "THEY's".
I am not a they.
And I am not assumimg anything.
Keep your mudd in your mouth.
You have become so incredibly boring and predictable and ordinary.
I am sorry for you.
tobe
This may be very hard to digest against the backdrop of your A=A A=A..I
am not part of osa OR rons org OR ANY OTHER ORG OR GROUPS FOR YOU TO
a=a ME WITH. i AM JUST ME minding my own affairs which have been
scrambled by your latest ant anti anti protestor.
Please, stop scambleing to identify me with something somewhere as a
known brand label you can a=a a=a with O.K.?
You are spreading false informaqtion my deperate person!
tobe
Excuse me?
Are you talkiing in a mirror or what?
Why don't YOU stop evaluating.
I am not off on any false purpose here.
My purpose is to survive and help other to as well.
Maybe you need false data stripping on people getting pissed off
because thier cycles are getting sabatoged? Are you even a C/S? Have
you seen my PC folders? I have had the fprd lists already madam
imagine! I'm not blind enough to let the 1.1 eval inval slip by.
Listen, I am truly sorry if all the kings horses and all the kings men
couldn't put everybody back together again.
Your upsets are understandable.
But many people including myself were and are being put back together
again. And there is nothing you can say or do except protest about it.
because as long as there are people benefiting from it, and there are
MANY, this thing is going to grow and people are going to be happy that
it is.
I don't care about the fuck ups going on with the administration. It's
gossip and fuck ups. I am a PRO, PRO person. And I am pro what I know
to be helpful to me, and what I see to be helpful to others.
I understand some people did not get case gain or gains they were
promised.
I think it is wholly selfish to set out to destroy it all because a few
people couldn't be helped by it, when there are many many people around
who can still benefit.
That's it.
And you 1.1 evaluations are like a little bit of spit landing on my
arm, no harm done at all.
In fact, the motivator flow here sucked me in like a vacum.
tobe
This is my last post.
And I suggest you people here start granting some beingness too.
People have the right to explore and practice Scientology.
I have seen over time, people on this forum become just like what they
started to protest.
Michael says he was coherced against his religion by the Church, now he
is cohercing others.
ARS reads like a cult of it's own these days.
For the life of me I don't know how you stay on these forums and don't
get dragged down.
Later Fluffy... ps glad you are able to stay on good terms with most
people, I do admire that. to be
Barbara Schwarz
tobe wrote:
> He did use the Orgs to sell his paintings and support himself. He used
> everyone in Scientology and all of their resources for whatever he had.
> He came into Latin America, Mexico, and piggy backed off people there
> for MONTHS. When he finally left there he came into Clearwater and
> third partied them all for paying people what everyone else was paying
> them too. He caused lots of grief and third party for the people he
> treated him so kindly in Mexico. The Agami's were in sec checks and
> chaplains courts up to their necks. He got through OT8, and he had
> WITHELD the reasons WHY for his sec checks and ethics handleings here.
> He asked for a refund from the Church then and sued John Travolta as
> well. Everyone who ever reached to support this man has had their hand
> bitten.
> I've been independent Scientology for years now and have only
> been in one scrap, when the U.S. freezoners turned on Ralph Hilton. I
> am a busy person. I can't devote hours and hours a day of my life into
> anti anti anti anti anti anti anti hobbies. Besides that, anti anti
> anti anti ranters give me a headache, just plain drag for company.
Lol. They are a pain in the neck.
>And
> I imagine they have time for all the anti anti anti effort because no
> one else can stand to be the their company either. I could care less
> what the CofS is doing these days and I could care less to hear the
> endless protest chanting of the anti anti anti anti CofS protesters on
> ars. Isn't there ANYTHING else you people can find to do in life?
> Your whining is becoming an annoyance. Your little witch hunts and
> discoveries are pathetic. For those that have left it seems you still
> haven't moved onto any place. You still spend your lives talking about
> Scientology you are just on the other side. You are still in the game!
> It must be the only game you are still interested in!
Yes, there is a lot truth in it. Who is not more interested takes up
other things and does not talk or natter decades and decades about it.
>So here is
> Michael the worlds biggest ungrateful sponge.
You make me laugh.
>He got his bridge, he got
> his money back, he got all sorts of perks for all those years...when
> will he be happy and move on? NO! He has to whine all over the net now
> and fuck up my cycles getting people on the bridge. And now the time
> has come for you people to understand one thing. There is a HUGE
> Scientology independent network of people practicing thier religion in
> a quiet way without bothering anyone else. And your noise and whining
> and continuos protests are starting to bleed onto our table too. And we
> are not a big organization with restsraints and liabilities, we are
> PEOPLE with rights you are starting to suppress. So not only do we
> have the copyright issues to contend with you, we have YOU, and we have
> no crimes against you. So when your noise bleeds on to our plates you
> are committing injustices OVER HERE. And we as individuals have RIGHTS
> that are being trampled on by YOU over there . And you will need to
> take responsibility as citizens for those rights you are now violating.
> And if Michael has damaged my practice, he may well be liable to ME
> in court. His days of hiding behind groups may well be numbered. He
> has NO RIGHT to interfere with MY LIFE. And what is his goal now?
> What is he using this group for? Applause? Back up?
It is a snake pit, all the anti-SCN snakes come together here to spit
poison and defame SCN, L. Ron Hubbard and Scienologists.
> His actions are
> not even related to Scientology, look at his track record and askyour
> self if YOU want to come back in YOUR next life as his MUSE! O.K., go
> on and start......anti, anti, anti, anti, anti, anti, anti...........
Did you ever see a painting of Michael in which he painted lots of
numbers? He showed it to me one time and denies these days that he
painted it. He told me in Munich that he painted that picture to make
people try to figure out what he meant with those numbers when he is
dead. :)
His behavior in SCN is more a puzzle that the picture that he painted
to make himself interesting.
Zinj
frommyv...@yahoo.com says...
<snip>
> I am not off on any false purpose here.
>
> My purpose is to survive and help other to as well.
Your purpose was to scam a 'third world person' into a scam you
admittedly yourself believe, but, to finance your own delusions.
By your own admissions, your 'upset' with Michael was his website which
gave infortion to one of your potential 'customers' which led him to
decline your offered 'service'.
For money.
It's your business.
Michael didn't say *anything* about you; he just suggested that the
'service' you were offering (and not even *your* service, since he
didn't mention you) was worthless, and your customer refused to pay you.
What you offer is crap. Michael called it crap. You think that's bad.
Your customer believed Michael; not you.
Hint: If you're selling crap, whether it costs $200,000 a pound or $20
may be irrelevant.
Crap is crap.
Android Cat
So how's that clearing your reactive emotions thing working for you anyhow?
--
Ron of that ilk.
Jommy Cross
wrote in msg <1132080769.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>It looks my open letter really hit home on OSA.
>
>Attacks from trolls and OSA's obvoius frustrations are some of the
>best compliments I can get on, apart from my a.r.s. friends sticking up
>for me which I doooo appreciate.
>
>Tobe, your frantic and vindictive guesses are wrong on every count.
>
>As for the cures LRH made about being gay...try Handbook for Preclears,
>I think it is chapter 14, and Dianetics promises in DMSMH and Nots
>promises, etc...
An individual aberrated enough about sex will do strange things to be a
cause or an effect. He will substitute punishment for sex. He will pervert
others.
Homosexuality comes from this manifestation and from the manifestation of
life continuation for others. A boy whose mother is dominant will try to
continue her life from any failure she has. A girl whose father is dominant
will try to continue his life from any failure he has. The mother or the
father were cause in the child’s eyes. The child elected himself successor
to cause. Break this life continuum concept by running sympathy and grief
for the dominant parent and then run off the desires to be an effect and
their failures and the homosexual is rehabilitated.
L Ron Hubbard, Handbook for Preclears, 1951
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
realpch
Somehow I missed that. So that's what it was? Phew. Hell hath no fury
like an auditor scorned. He's not granting beingness to the choices of
his potential auditee.
Peach
Muldoon
You're not part of any group?
Your "Success Stories" are promoted officially by a group calling
itself the "Free Zone."
So it's absurd to assert that you are not part of some group. But
that's not the point really.
The main issue is this: You're a naive and impressionable fellow who
has been led down a path. A path that begins with emphasizing good
things, such as "communication" and "help," and then leads to Xenu.
And now you think you are part of the "Galactic elite." And think we
are lowly SPs, Wogs, DBs, and Meatballs.
There are people on ARS, and elsewhere, who know much more about
Scientology than you do.
Do you think you are now as sane as Hubbard was in 1968?
You no doubt have read Hubbard's writings on "SPs." Have you read Fair
Game? Sounds like you're a solid convert to its "philosophy."
You are on a bad path. And now you are attempting to sell that bad path
to others.
And you can do that.
And others, who are wiser than you, can warn the unsuspecting about it.
tobe
Zinj wrote:
"your purpose was to scam"
You always suspect others of what you yourself is guilty of. The overt
doth speak loudly!
Yes, of course I wouldn't really be interested in helping anybody would
I?
Nobody can really help anyone can they?
Everyone is out to scam everyone aren't they?
I scanned this list for thirty minutes to find the appropriate tone
level to post.
Anyone posting in hate/blame/punishing bodies will get a huge audience
in a right away style.
I typed in your name from curiosity, you are right in the blame
scale..all the way there.
I didn't put you there, you are in the valence of a cop. Are you a cop?
Even Michael was intelligent enough to back off this thread and here
you are, the leader of the inquisition still BLAMING and BLAMING.
Still casting the crimes against people. Still writing up the bill of
particulars and making an accounting of the charges.
Still, focusing on the crimes of others must be helpful in taking your
attention off your own issues.
You must have been the town crier at the Spanish Inquisition!
And what tone level dop you think a person must assume to post on ARS
and be real?
If I didn't mock myself up as a hate target you wouldn't have noticed
me you little worm.
You don't have one excuse for posting here except that your monitor is
the only thing in your room that will tolerate your input you creepy
crawler.
FU2
tobe
My deepest sympathy.
You have no idea what I think, it's all coming from your imagination.
And let me tell you, you'de better keep mocking it up because that's
the only company you are going to have.
sorry bout that but imagination is better than nothing at all.
barb
Well, you ARE a nasty little piece of shit, and that isn't false
information. Anyone could discern that by reading your venomous, jealous
rants. I don't think your own affairs include harassing and denigrating
Michael. So he got in the way of you slurping up a victim. So what?
Deal with it, bitch. And quit yer whining, jeez.
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
Abby
a "win"? So you are chastising someone for seeking applause when he's
"out" and criticizing, but it's ok when he's "in." Please explain.
tobe
little children, they looked like they were carved by angels.
tobe
your own dub in. David loves and respects his wife and has for
decades. I don't know who you had to A=A A=A her with. She is just
herself. If she reminded you of someone upon a glance maybe you should
handle why your attention units are throwing you out of PT onto other
people you have known.
Larry T.
>I didn't see the painting with numbers. I saw the paintings with the
> little children, they looked like they were carved by angels.
>
good one if the sale of his work enabled him to go from no Scientologist at
all, right up through OT 8.
Larry T.
Why so mean to Michael for?
barb
> I am granting you all beingness.
>
> This is my last post.
You already posted your last post, and yet...here you are, still
nattering on about leaving. So, leave, already!
>
> And I suggest you people here start granting some beingness too.
>
> People have the right to explore and practice Scientology.
People have the right to expose Scientology for the mindfucking,
destructive cult that it is.
>
> I have seen over time, people on this forum become just like what they
> started to protest.
You mean I'm a <gasp> Scientologist now? Ewww!
>
> Michael says he was coherced against his religion by the Church, now he
> is cohercing others.
What does "coherced" mean?
>
> ARS reads like a cult of it's own these days.
>
> For the life of me I don't know how you stay on these forums and don't
> get dragged down.
>
> Later Fluffy... ps glad you are able to stay on good terms with most
> people, I do admire that. to be
>
tobe
base trying to break him from his religous beleifs? trying to beat
him down? If that was offensive why he is doing it now to others? I
am defending myself, my religion, and my practice from HIS attacks.
I am sorry that he does not want or need my religion.
Didn't he get his money back?
Why won't he go away now?
Why is he here still part of the game he said was such a waste of his
time?
Hasn't he been paid enough?
He is till captivated by the magic..just like the rest on ARS.
They just can't let go of the magic.
He is here trying to convince people not to go into the magic, yet, he
himself cannot take his eyes off it.
This brilliance is unforgettable.
And all of you here mesmerized by this magic, still cannot tear
yourselves away from it.
I'm on top of the magic brother...in a real big way.
I am sorry if it bothers you, I am sorry if you are so addicted and
marveled by it you cannot pull yourselves away from it.
He is here obviously enchanted still by its effects, and at the doorway
telling everyone else the show is not worth seeing.
And that is fucked up.
And that why I am mean to Michael.
tobe
You are begging me to beat him up even more you sadistic bastard.
Larry T.
>> "tobe" <frommyv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1132209820.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> > Larry, What do you know what her husband was "trying to do". Look at
>> > your own dub in. David loves and respects his wife and has for
>> > decades. I don't know who you had to A=A A=A her with. She is just
>> > herself. If she reminded you of someone upon a glance maybe you should
>> > handle why your attention units are throwing you out of PT onto other
>> > people you have known.
>> >
>> No way is that even part of the picture, but thanks Tobe.
>>
>> Why so mean to Michael for?
>>
> base trying to break him from his religous beleifs? trying to beat
> him down? If that was offensive why he is doing it now to others? I
> am defending myself, my religion, and my practice from HIS attacks.
>
> I am sorry that he does not want or need my religion.
> Didn't he get his money back?
> Why won't he go away now?
> Why is he here still part of the game he said was such a waste of his
> time?
> Hasn't he been paid enough?
> He is till captivated by the magic..just like the rest on ARS.
> They just can't let go of the magic.
>
> He is here trying to convince people not to go into the magic, yet, he
> himself cannot take his eyes off it.
>
> This brilliance is unforgettable.
>
> And all of you here mesmerized by this magic, still cannot tear
> yourselves away from it.
>
> I'm on top of the magic brother...in a real big way.
>
> I am sorry if it bothers you, I am sorry if you are so addicted and
> marveled by it you cannot pull yourselves away from it.
>
> He is here obviously enchanted still by its effects, and at the doorway
> telling everyone else the show is not worth seeing.
>
> And that is fucked up.
>
> And that why I am mean to Michael.
>
Tobe:
OK, but there are other things Michael can do besides that.
(LOL)
tobe
tobe
Susan
>
> Magoo wrote:
>
> It's always amazing to me to read the self-righteous utter crap that
>> Scientologists within C of S write about others. Their ASSumptions
>> are worse than ridiculous................and they sound SO stupid.
>
> You know what Magoo, you made a splash a LONG LONG time ago and your
> encores are getting more and more boring. Is this the best you can't
> do with your whining these days: ....and they sound so stupid!
>
> How do you think you sound?
>
> As far as I'm concerned you can take your monitor and shove it up your
> butt.
>
> You haven't had anything to offer people forever except your nine inch
> nails.
>
> Can't you think of ANYTHING else to talk about besides the CofS?
>
> Can't you think of anything else to do except chant anti anti antti
> protests against the "THEY's".
>
> I am not a they.
>
> And I am not assumimg anything.
>
> Keep your mudd in your mouth.
>
> You have become so incredibly boring and predictable and ordinary.
>
> I am sorry for you.
ToBe,
Take your head out of your ass and do some research before making a fool out
of yourself on a worldwide forum.
Susan
Kim Palmer
> I am granting you all beingness.
>
> This is my last post.
>
> And I suggest you people here start granting some beingness too.
>
> People have the right to explore and practice Scientology.
>
people also have the right to know about the cost - not just the price
of the courses but the cost - disconnections, sec checks, families
divided, control, fear, KR's, and of course KSW - which is the base of
every - KSW and get rid of anything and anyone who does not KSW.
> I have seen over time, people on this forum become just like what they
> started to protest.
>
> Michael says he was coherced against his religion by the Church, now he
> is cohercing others.
hardly - telling the truth is not coercive in spite of KSW policies and
the cult's inability to withstand any criticism.
>
> ARS reads like a cult of it's own these days.
That is the same old song of the cofs. Ars is more like herding cats
since people who post here do so from all points of view and we hardly
agree on much - other than the abusive nature of the policies and
procedures of the cult of scientology.
>
> For the life of me I don't know how you stay on these forums and don't
> get dragged down.
ahh yes - the infamous tone scale - a useless list of hubbardian spewage
used to control people's emotions and enforce KSW and all its mean
spirited nastiness without compassion for anyone
Zinj
frommyv...@yahoo.com says...
> Really?
>
> You are begging me to beat him up even more you sadistic bastard.
Since when is punching yourself in the face 'beating someone up'?
Is this the 'magic' you mean?
Scientology in action!
Ball of Fluff
"Kim Palmer" <yduzit...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:437c67d6$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> tobe wrote:
>
>> I am granting you all beingness.
>>
>> This is my last post.
>>
>> And I suggest you people here start granting some beingness too.
>>
>> People have the right to explore and practice Scientology.
>>
>
> people also have the right to know about the cost - not just the price of
> the courses but the cost - disconnections, sec checks, families divided,
> control, fear, KR's, and of course KSW - which is the base of every - KSW
> and get rid of anything and anyone who does not KSW.
Yes, they do.
However, ToBe doesn't have to deal with any of that because he's not in
CofS. He's a FreeZoner.
>
>> I have seen over time, people on this forum become just like what they
>> started to protest.
>>
>> Michael says he was coherced against his religion by the Church, now he
>> is cohercing others.
>
> hardly - telling the truth is not coercive in spite of KSW policies and
> the cult's inability to withstand any criticism.
>>
>> ARS reads like a cult of it's own these days.
>
> That is the same old song of the cofs. Ars is more like herding cats
> since people who post here do so from all points of view and we hardly
> agree on much - other than the abusive nature of the policies and
> procedures of the cult of scientology.
ToBe is not in CofS.
>>
>> For the life of me I don't know how you stay on these forums and don't
>> get dragged down.
>
> ahh yes - the infamous tone scale - a useless list of hubbardian spewage
> used to control people's emotions and enforce KSW and all its mean
> spirited nastiness without compassion for anyone
For the serious Scn'ists who are into it as a philosophical endeavor and
lifestyle choice, it's an attempt to understand and quantify extant
phenomena and to control ~ourselves~.
C
Ball of Fluff
> Share those thing with us, since you have so much personal insight.
Larry T is mainly a troll with no interest in enlightening or personal
insight. Not even the other critics take him seriously...
Don't worry 'bout Larry T...
C
barb
> Zinj wrote:
>
> "your purpose was to scam"
>
> You always suspect others of what you yourself is guilty of. The overt
> doth speak loudly!
Zinj never asked anyone for money in exchange for a spurious product
like the "tech." Sometimes, he even buys the beer!
You seem to be accusing him of scamming, but I don't suppose you'd be
interested in elucidating your accusation, would you. You types never are.
>
> Yes, of course I wouldn't really be interested in helping anybody would
> I?
>
> Nobody can really help anyone can they?
If by "helping," you mean brainwashing and defrauding people, no.
No they can't.
>
> Everyone is out to scam everyone aren't they?
If L. Ron Hubbard is involved, you betcher socks it's a scam. They even
said so on South Park!
>
> I scanned this list for thirty minutes to find the appropriate tone
> level to post.
God. The rest of us just post. And you have to search for a tone level?
HAHAHAHAHA! What a maroon!
>
> Anyone posting in hate/blame/punishing bodies will get a huge audience
> in a right away style.
>
> I typed in your name from curiosity, you are right in the blame
> scale..all the way there.
>
> I didn't put you there, you are in the valence of a cop. Are you a cop?
>
> Even Michael was intelligent enough to back off this thread and here
> you are, the leader of the inquisition still BLAMING and BLAMING.
>
> Still casting the crimes against people. Still writing up the bill of
> particulars and making an accounting of the charges.
Heh...cat...pedal...black. Why are you still squalling? I thought you
were leaving, but you seem to wish to demonstrate further the idiocy of
the tech. That's okay, but believe me. Not too many wogs are gonna find
it attractive. And after last night, I doubt you'll get many takers for
your "product" here!
>
> Still, focusing on the crimes of others must be helpful in taking your
> attention off your own issues.
Well, he does smoke those stinky little cigars. But that hardly compares
with selling bogus self-improvement. Or throwing an ongoing temper
tantrum because your prey escaped your grasping clutches. Get over it!
There's a sucker born every minute. Maybe you can find one before your
rent is due.
>
> You must have been the town crier at the Spanish Inquisition!
Maybe he was Captain Ahab. Or Mickey Mouse. Or the Tooth Fairy.
>
> And what tone level dop you think a person must assume to post on ARS
> and be real?
We dop believe in tone levels. We are untainted by the madness of Ron,
and we like it that way.
>
> If I didn't mock myself up as a hate target you wouldn't have noticed
> me you little worm.
If you call launching a vicious attack on a popular poster here is
"mocking yourself up as a hate target," okay, whatever. Generally
speaking, people tend to notice others who indulge in such assholery.
One could say you're pulling it in. If you'd been polite and respectful,
perhaps nobody would have noticed you. That's how it works. You can
dress it up in LRH's vocabulary and call it genius if you want to, but
it's the same old thing in sloppy tap shoes. Don't be surprised if you
get smacked upside the head after attacking someone on the sidewalk.
No genius about it.
>
> You don't have one excuse for posting here except that your monitor is
> the only thing in your room that will tolerate your input you creepy
> crawler.
>
> FU2
It's a newsgroup. One doesn't need "an excuse" for posting here. And I
have to say, Zinj is one of the more erudite, humourous and entertaining
posters here. Hella lot better than, say, you are!
Were not you leaving? Or do you have a MU on the meaning of the word?
>
>>In article <1132199596.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>>frommyv...@yahoo.com says...
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>I am not off on any false purpose here.
>>>
>>>My purpose is to survive and help other to as well.
>>
>>Your purpose was to scam a 'third world person' into a scam you
>>admittedly yourself believe, but, to finance your own delusions.
>>
>>By your own admissions, your 'upset' with Michael was his website which
>>gave infortion to one of your potential 'customers' which led him to
>>decline your offered 'service'.
>>
>>For money.
>>
>>It's your business.
>>
>>Michael didn't say *anything* about you; he just suggested that the
>>'service' you were offering (and not even *your* service, since he
>>didn't mention you) was worthless, and your customer refused to pay you.
>>
>>What you offer is crap. Michael called it crap. You think that's bad.
>>Your customer believed Michael; not you.
>>
>>Hint: If you're selling crap, whether it costs $200,000 a pound or $20
>>may be irrelevant.
>>
>>Crap is crap.
>>
>>Zinj
>>--
>>Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
>> - The Tick
>
>
barb
> Zinj wrote:
>
> "your purpose was to scam"
>
> You always suspect others of what you yourself is guilty of. The overt
> doth speak loudly!
Zinj never asked anyone for money in exchange for a spurious product
like the "tech." Sometimes, he even buys the beer!
You seem to be accusing him of scamming, but I don't suppose you'd be
interested in elucidating your accusation, would you. You types never are.
>
> Yes, of course I wouldn't really be interested in helping anybody would
> I?
>
> Nobody can really help anyone can they?
If by "helping," you mean brainwashing and defrauding people, no.
No they can't.
>
> Everyone is out to scam everyone aren't they?
If L. Ron Hubbard is involved, you betcher socks it's a scam. They even
said so on South Park!
>
> I scanned this list for thirty minutes to find the appropriate tone
> level to post.
God. The rest of us just post. And you have to search for a tone level?
HAHAHAHAHA! What a maroon!
>
> Anyone posting in hate/blame/punishing bodies will get a huge audience
> in a right away style.
>
> I typed in your name from curiosity, you are right in the blame
> scale..all the way there.
>
> I didn't put you there, you are in the valence of a cop. Are you a cop?
>
> Even Michael was intelligent enough to back off this thread and here
> you are, the leader of the inquisition still BLAMING and BLAMING.
>
> Still casting the crimes against people. Still writing up the bill of
> particulars and making an accounting of the charges.
Heh...cat...pedal...black. Why are you still squalling? I thought you
were leaving, but you seem to wish to demonstrate further the idiocy of
the tech. That's okay, but believe me. Not too many wogs are gonna find
it attractive. And after last night, I doubt you'll get many takers for
your "product" here!
>
> Still, focusing on the crimes of others must be helpful in taking your
> attention off your own issues.
Well, he does smoke those stinky little cigars. But that hardly compares
with selling bogus self-improvement. Or throwing an ongoing temper
tantrum because your prey escaped your grasping clutches. Get over it!
There's a sucker born every minute. Maybe you can find one before your
rent is due.
>
> You must have been the town crier at the Spanish Inquisition!
Maybe he was Captain Ahab. Or Mickey Mouse. Or the Tooth Fairy.
>
> And what tone level dop you think a person must assume to post on ARS
> and be real?
We dop believe in tone levels. We are untainted by the madness of Ron,
and we like it that way.
>
> If I didn't mock myself up as a hate target you wouldn't have noticed
> me you little worm.
If you call launching a vicious attack on a popular poster here is
"mocking yourself up as a hate target," okay, whatever. Generally
speaking, people tend to notice others who indulge in such assholery.
One could say you're pulling it in. If you'd been polite and respectful,
perhaps nobody would have noticed you. That's how it works. You can
dress it up in LRH's vocabulary and call it genius if you want to, but
it's the same old thing in sloppy tap shoes. Don't be surprised if you
get smacked upside the head after attacking someone on the sidewalk.
No genius about it.
>
> You don't have one excuse for posting here except that your monitor is
> the only thing in your room that will tolerate your input you creepy
> crawler.
>
> FU2
It's a newsgroup. One doesn't need "an excuse" for posting here. And I
have to say, Zinj is one of the more erudite, humourous and entertaining
posters here. Hella lot better than, say, you are!
Were not you leaving? Or do you have a MU on the meaning of the word?
>
>>In article <1132199596.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>>frommyv...@yahoo.com says...
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>I am not off on any false purpose here.
>>>
>>>My purpose is to survive and help other to as well.
>>
>>Your purpose was to scam a 'third world person' into a scam you
>>admittedly yourself believe, but, to finance your own delusions.
>>
>>By your own admissions, your 'upset' with Michael was his website which
>>gave infortion to one of your potential 'customers' which led him to
>>decline your offered 'service'.
>>
>>For money.
>>
>>It's your business.
>>
>>Michael didn't say *anything* about you; he just suggested that the
>>'service' you were offering (and not even *your* service, since he
>>didn't mention you) was worthless, and your customer refused to pay you.
>>
>>What you offer is crap. Michael called it crap. You think that's bad.
>>Your customer believed Michael; not you.
>>
>>Hint: If you're selling crap, whether it costs $200,000 a pound or $20
>>may be irrelevant.
>>
>>Crap is crap.
>>
>>Zinj
>>--
>>Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
>> - The Tick
>
>
barb
> I didn't see the painting with numbers. I saw the paintings with the
> little children, they looked like they were carved by angels.
>
So, you're saying you like his artwork?
Then why are you accusing him of selling it like it was something bad?
Don't people buy artwork they like?
If they buy it, doesn't that mean they WANT it?
What the fuck is your problem?
Oh...right. Heh.
barb
> He is attacking my religion. Didn't he complain about people at the
> base trying to break him from his religous beleifs? trying to beat
> him down? If that was offensive why he is doing it now to others? I
> am defending myself, my religion, and my practice from HIS attacks.
If you define attacking as telling the truth about it, okay.
But it really has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with warning
people about a fraud and a scam. And that is more of a civic
responsibility than an attack. If you weren't trying to defraud, I doubt
anybody would bother mentioning your beliefs, silly as they may be.
It's been pointed out that other beliefs are just as silly.
>
> I am sorry that he does not want or need my religion.
> Didn't he get his money back?
> Why won't he go away now?
Why won't you?
> Why is he here still part of the game he said was such a waste of his
> time?
> Hasn't he been paid enough?
> He is till captivated by the magic..just like the rest on ARS.
> They just can't let go of the magic.
Magic? There's no such thing as magic, d00d. Outside the fantasy world
of Harry Potter, that is...get real. Really.
>
> He is here trying to convince people not to go into the magic, yet, he
> himself cannot take his eyes off it.
>
> This brilliance is unforgettable.
>
> And all of you here mesmerized by this magic, still cannot tear
> yourselves away from it.
>
> I'm on top of the magic brother...in a real big way.
Nah, you're just a silly dupe, "brother." And all the new people who
come here after seeing South Park are gonna get to see the mindset in
action, thanks to you. We appreciate it. Really.
>
> I am sorry if it bothers you, I am sorry if you are so addicted and
> marveled by it you cannot pull yourselves away from it.
>
> He is here obviously enchanted still by its effects, and at the doorway
> telling everyone else the show is not worth seeing.
>
> And that is fucked up.
>
> And that why I am mean to Michael.
>
>
> Larry T. wrote:
>
>>"tobe" <frommyv...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:1132209820.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Larry, What do you know what her husband was "trying to do". Look at
>>>your own dub in. David loves and respects his wife and has for
>>>decades. I don't know who you had to A=A A=A her with. She is just
>>>herself. If she reminded you of someone upon a glance maybe you should
>>>handle why your attention units are throwing you out of PT onto other
>>>people you have known.
>>>
>>
>>No way is that even part of the picture, but thanks Tobe.
>>
>>Why so mean to Michael for?
>>
>>--
>>Larry T.
>>http://mysite.verizon.net/toomajan/
>
>
barb
> Really?
>
> You are begging me to beat him up even more you sadistic bastard.
>
You'd be more comprehensible if we knew who the fuck you are addressing.
But you aren't terribly comprehensible to begin with, so I suppose it
doesn't matter much.
Muldoon
barb wrote:
> tobe wrote:
>
> > I didn't see the painting with numbers. I saw the paintings with the
> > little children, they looked like they were carved by angels.
> >
> So, you're saying you like his artwork?
> Then why are you accusing him of selling it like it was something bad?
> Don't people buy artwork they like?
> If they buy it, doesn't that mean they WANT it?
>
> What the fuck is your problem?
> Oh...right. Heh.
>
> --
> --barb
> Chaplain,ARSCC
> xenu...@netscape.net
"ToBe" is following the guidance of his guru Hubbard.
On the topic of "critics":
"Just discuss his or her crimes known or unknown. And act completely
confident that these crimes exist. Because they do."
HCOB 5 November 1967, 'Critics of Scientology'.
"ToBe" had a go at applying "Fair Game" on this very thread.
There's no way to candy-coat it.
Scientology, as designed by its founder, is a stratified and
compartmentalized subject/operation with a dark and nasty dominant
core.
Those in the "Free Zone" who can't face that, now must accept
responsibility for steering others into a warmed-over version of the
Hubbard personality cult.
And, by the way, I don't think everything in Scientology is bad.
(Scientology must contain some things which are good, and which are
true - so as to _use_ them.)
But Hubbard was primarily concerned with ego and power, and not with
enlightenment.
And, by now, isn't that obvious?
Ball of Fluff
tobe wrote:
> You told ME to get MY FPRD and then TOLD ME To stop evaluating?
>
> Excuse me?
>
> Are you talkiing in a mirror or what?
No, Lagniappe wasn't.
>
> Why don't YOU stop evaluating.
But, ToBe, ~you~ were evaluating for someone on the ng.
>
> I am not off on any false purpose here.
"False purpose" is the newer name for "evil intentions".
One doesn't have to be incorrect to be ser faccing.
I think that is probably what Lagniappe was getting at.
>
> My purpose is to survive and help other to as well.
>
> Maybe you need false data stripping on people getting pissed off
> because thier cycles are getting sabatoged? Are you even a C/S? Have
> you seen my PC folders? I have had the fprd lists already madam
> imagine! I'm not blind enough to let the 1.1 eval inval slip by.
>
Lagniappe isn't 1.1. Lagniappe rarely gets into conversations and
exchanges and back and forthing on threads, and is always forthright in
his or her communications.
> Listen, I am truly sorry if all the kings horses and all the kings men
> couldn't put everybody back together again.
>
> Your upsets are understandable.
Lagniappe hasn't indicated any upsets.
>
> But many people including myself were and are being put back together
> again. And there is nothing you can say or do except protest about it.
> because as long as there are people benefiting from it, and there are
> MANY, this thing is going to grow and people are going to be happy that
> it is.
>
> I don't care about the fuck ups going on with the administration. It's
> gossip and fuck ups. I am a PRO, PRO person. And I am pro what I know
> to be helpful to me, and what I see to be helpful to others.
I'm pro Scn, ToBe, but I'm also emphatically pro critic.
Here's why:
Without critics:
There'd be no examination of what CofS does
There'd be no information put on the web and even into paper journalism
about any other perspectives other than what LRH and, later, DM, wanted
people to have.
There'd not be much of a FreeZone. A lot of critics are supportive of
indie Scn and people's rights to pursue Scn outside CofS. Some aren't,
but that many are.
>
> I understand some people did not get case gain or gains they were
> promised.
I think that what happens is that when someone does a lot of Scn then
later ditches the organization after being betrayed many times, that he
or she reevaluates his earlier position, including wins he or she had.
They may have felt that they had gains at the time then later felt that
the gains were imaginary.
In my situation, my previous gains don't seem at all imaginary to me.,
but it's not that way for everybody.
Gains are subjective, in any case.
My motto comes into play again: "However it seems to me (or to you)
isn't necessarily how it seems to the other guy".
Now, look, ToBe. LRH talks about pan determinism. Not making people
wrong. Etc.
Michael P never made any individuals wrong about pursuing scn. He knows
I'm a Scn'ist and he's been nothing but nice to me.
Giving him a ration of shit will not convert him, it will not make you
any friends, it won't convey anything that you meant to convey.
Instead, sorry to say, but you end up sounding like some of the more
vitriolic unthinkingly anti types.
Why not just write a post saying "Well, this thing you said over here,
well, I disagree and here's why?"
Remember, you don't have to be incorrect to be ser faccing.
Ser faccing isn't all about who's right, it's about making someone else
wrong and oneself right. has nothing to do with correctness.
>
> I think it is wholly selfish to set out to destroy it all because a few
> people couldn't be helped by it, when there are many many people around
> who can still benefit.
If Michael were trying to destroy it, he'd have taken me on a long long
time ago and he never ever has been anything but the soul of courtesy
to me.
His open letter was about how he felt.
I respect that.
C
realpch
>
> tobe wrote:
>
> > I am granting you all beingness.
> >
> > This is my last post.
>
> You already posted your last post, and yet...here you are, still
> nattering on about leaving. So, leave, already!
> >
> > And I suggest you people here start granting some beingness too.
> >
> > People have the right to explore and practice Scientology.
>
> People have the right to expose Scientology for the mindfucking,
> destructive cult that it is.
> >
> > I have seen over time, people on this forum become just like what they
> > started to protest.
>
> You mean I'm a <gasp> Scientologist now? Ewww!
You ARE! Report to ethics immediately and bring your checkbook.
Peach
realpch
>
> He is attacking my religion. Didn't he complain about people at the
> base trying to break him from his religous beleifs? trying to beat
> him down? If that was offensive why he is doing it now to others? I
> am defending myself, my religion, and my practice from HIS attacks.
It's not personal, though I'm sure the loss of your auditee felt
personal to you.
> I am sorry that he does not want or need my religion.
> Didn't he get his money back?
> Why won't he go away now?
> Why is he here still part of the game he said was such a waste of his
> time?
> Hasn't he been paid enough?
> He is till captivated by the magic..just like the rest on ARS.
> They just can't let go of the magic.
I believe that many ex-Scientologists mourn the loss of the "magic" they
perceived, and this is an entirely understandable way to move through
that. The next thing for some ex-Scientologists is discussing their
experiences and their loss, and their current perceptions of both the
Church and the practice, the Church. Some, like yourself, still like the
practice, while having no use for the Church.
> He is here trying to convince people not to go into the magic, yet, he
> himself cannot take his eyes off it.
>
> This brilliance is unforgettable.
>
> And all of you here mesmerized by this magic, still cannot tear
> yourselves away from it.
>
> I'm on top of the magic brother...in a real big way.
Ok, well good for you. Go find another auditee.
> I am sorry if it bothers you, I am sorry if you are so addicted and
> marveled by it you cannot pull yourselves away from it.
>
> He is here obviously enchanted still by its effects, and at the doorway
> telling everyone else the show is not worth seeing.
>
> And that is fucked up.
>
> And that why I am mean to Michael.
<snip>
Well, the world is always in need of a variety of movie reviews, you
know. You like the movie, ok, go watch it again. Some else thinks it
sucks, ok. Pretty reasonable that they'd tell other people about it.
Peach
realpch
>
> Really?
>
> You are begging me to beat him up even more you sadistic bastard.
Right. That's one of the things that Larry does. Right across the board,
so don't feel picked on.
Peach
Jommy Cross
wrote in msg <1132189596.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
>
>Michael Pattinson wrote:
>> ToBe seems to be footbulleting the FZ (Freak Zone, as in Mike
>> Mc(Un)Cleareye, Captain of the Galactic Starship, Bill Robertson, et
>> alia...) like OSA footbullets Scn. It is a pity that such a lot of
>> really nice people are STILL taken in by the false profit.
>
>Not really a question of prophets or profits.
>
>>
>> FZ = another stream of polluted water from the same contaminated
>> source. Do Not Drink.
>
>No, Michael. You're wrong about that.
>
>Self righteous people who slam others, as ToBe did toward you, can be
>found anywhere and everywhere. It's a question of free will.
Riiiiiight. So Pattinson gets fucked over for years by Co$, leaves, is
vilified by Co$, and then some FZ weenie turns up and vilifies him some
more, because Pattinson has related what's happened to him, which the FZ
weenie thinks makes Hubbard's matchless "technology" look bad.
And somehow Pattinson's supposed to forgive the Free Zone?
>
>I don't think Hubbard has anything to do with it in this case. I think
>ToBe felt that something he cared about was being crapped on.
Yeah, it's Pattinson's opinion of Hubbard's matchless "technology" that's
bending ToBe out of shape.
ToBe then comes here and tells us he's deploying a bunch of Hubbard's
matchless "technology", while vilifying everyone who talks to him.
How is that nothing to do with Hubbard?
ToBe's doing $cientology wrong in your opinion? He didn't leave the same
bits out you do? He should be a Fluffentologist?
>
>I know how he feels but I also know that not everyone has the same
>perspective as I would and that that's just the way it is.
How do you know how he feels? Do you spend your time trying to sell
Hubbard's matchless "technology" product to the unwary like ToBe does, then
gnashing your teeth and looking for the SP when it falls through?
That's what ToBe's pissed about. His latest mark read Pattinson's opinion
of Hubbard and thought better of getting involved.
Waaah! sez ToBe, Pattinson must be silenced!
That's just pure KSW, ain't it?
>
>I have a motto for such situations:
>
>"However it seems to me, isn't how it's going to seem to the other guy"
>
>It would be a good motto for ToBe to learn.
>
>It's one Hubbard discussed, actually, in his writings on "pan
>determinism".
Pan-Determinism is the ability to regulate the considerations of two or
more identities, whether or not opposed.
L Ron Hubbard, The Creation Of Human Ability, 1954
Mmmmm, doesn't *that* sound like a useful skill for $cienos suffering from
cognitive dissonance?
One of the things which gives truth to Pan-Determinism is the savageness
with which the aberrated attempt to drive an individual away from anything
resembling Pan-Determinism.
L Ron Hubbard, Dianetics 55!, 1955
Oh, so that's the aberrated Pattinson unmasked, huh? Let's vilify him some
more!
Incident zero: Ron trolled you
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
Jommy Cross
msg <1132193892.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
> He did use the Orgs to sell his paintings and support himself. He used
>everyone in Scientology and all of their resources for whatever he had.
>He came into Latin America, Mexico, and piggy backed off people there
>for MONTHS. When he finally left there he came into Clearwater and
>third partied them all for paying people what everyone else was paying
>them too. He caused lots of grief and third party for the people he
>treated him so kindly in Mexico. The Agami's were in sec checks and
>chaplains courts up to their necks. He got through OT8, and he had
>WITHELD the reasons WHY for his sec checks and ethics handleings here.
>He asked for a refund from the Church then and sued John Travolta as
>well. Everyone who ever reached to support this man has had their hand
>bitten.
d00d, that's a dumb thing to say. Plenty of other people don't seem to have
had their hands bit. Maybe you're trying to say all the $cienos who tried
to drag him back to $cientology failed?
>I've been independent Scientology for years now and have only
>been in one scrap, when the U.S. freezoners turned on Ralph Hilton.
You should get out more. Half the fun in tiny occult groupuscules is the
schisms.
> I
>am a busy person. I can't devote hours and hours a day of my life into
>anti anti anti anti anti anti anti hobbies. Besides that, anti anti
>anti anti ranters give me a headache, just plain drag for company. And
>I imagine they have time for all the anti anti anti effort because no
>one else can stand to be the their company either.
What an active imagination you have.
> I could care less
>what the CofS is doing these days and I could care less to hear the
>endless protest chanting of the anti anti anti anti CofS protesters on
>ars. Isn't there ANYTHING else you people can find to do in life?
Noooooo. We are helplessly PTS to the eeeevil SP Pattinson.
>Your whining is becoming an annoyance. Your little witch hunts and
>discoveries are pathetic. For those that have left it seems you still
>haven't moved onto any place. You still spend your lives talking about
>Scientology you are just on the other side. You are still in the game!
>It must be the only game you are still interested in! So here is
>Michael the worlds biggest ungrateful sponge. He got his bridge, he got
>his money back, he got all sorts of perks for all those years...when
>will he be happy and move on? NO! He has to whine all over the net now
>and fuck up my cycles getting people on the bridge.
So everyone who disagrees with you should just shut up, huh? Nice attitude.
> And now the time
>has come for you people to understand one thing. There is a HUGE
>Scientology independent network of people practicing thier religion in
>a quiet way without bothering anyone else.
Oh rilly? This the most far fetched claim you've made so far. Where are
they all?
> And your noise and whining
>and continuos protests are starting to bleed onto our table too. And we
>are not a big organization with restsraints and liabilities, we are
>PEOPLE with rights you are starting to suppress. So not only do we
>have the copyright issues to contend with you, we have YOU, and we have
>no crimes against you. So when your noise bleeds on to our plates you
>are committing injustices OVER HERE.
You poor victim, you.
> And we as individuals have RIGHTS
>that are being trampled on by YOU over there . And you will need to
>take responsibility as citizens for those rights you are now violating.
I'm unclear about which RIGHTS those are? To promote your stupid unworkable
lifestyle while everyone else keeps quiet?
Which bill of rights are you working from for that? Hubbard's?
> And if Michael has damaged my practice, he may well be liable to ME
>in court.
Yeah, k00k. Expressing his opinion on a webpage is bound to be reason for
you to sue him.
> His days of hiding behind groups may well be numbered. He
>has NO RIGHT to interfere with MY LIFE.
He's interfering with YOUR LIFE now?
Do you hear him talking to you from the toaster? DON'T TRUST THE TOASTER!
Only listen to the calm. friendly voices from the dishwasher.
> And what is his goal now?
>What is he using this group for? Applause? Back up? His actions are
>not even related to Scientology, look at his track record and askyour
>self if YOU want to come back in YOUR next life as his MUSE! O.K., go
>on and start......anti, anti, anti, anti, anti, anti, anti...........
Thank you for your insights, k00k.
Muldoon
"ToBe" is described as "having just completed a long deep run on OT
2&3," and is, apparently, regarded, by some, as a shining example of
what the "Free Zone" can do in the way of "enlightenment."
LRH tech all the way!
(God help us.)
Lagniappe
>tobe wrote:
>> You told ME to get MY FPRD and then TOLD ME To stop evaluating?
>>
>> Excuse me?
>>
>> Are you talkiing in a mirror or what?
>
>No, Lagniappe wasn't.
>
>>
>> Why don't YOU stop evaluating.
>
>But, ToBe, ~you~ were evaluating for someone on the ng.
>
>>
>> I am not off on any false purpose here.
>
>"False purpose" is the newer name for "evil intentions".
>
>One doesn't have to be incorrect to be ser faccing.
>
>I think that is probably what Lagniappe was getting at.
>
>>
>> My purpose is to survive and help other to as well.
>>
>> Maybe you need false data stripping on people getting pissed off
>> because thier cycles are getting sabatoged? Are you even a C/S? Have
>> you seen my PC folders? I have had the fprd lists already madam
>> imagine! I'm not blind enough to let the 1.1 eval inval slip by.
>>
>
>Lagniappe isn't 1.1. Lagniappe rarely gets into conversations and
>exchanges and back and forthing on threads, and is always forthright in
>his or her communications.
>
>> Listen, I am truly sorry if all the kings horses and all the kings men
>> couldn't put everybody back together again.
>>
>> Your upsets are understandable.
>
>Lagniappe hasn't indicated any upsets.
The problem with tobe or whatever her name is, is that she probably
was in the SO for many years and I bet she was one of those abusive
staff members who caused people to blow and later on write about
those horror stories right here on ARS.
What you need to do To Be is to get yoru FPRD flattened on the 3rd
Dynamic, or maybe on whatever your post was as you seem to be a
little bit out of control when it has to do with groups.
I am not evaluating, I can see the obvious, we just saw your OT
wins, and your behaviour doesn't reflect the wins you supposedly
achieved, in other words you don't look OT to me, far from it...
Lagniappe
Ball of Fluff
"Lagniappe" <Lagn...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:FK39AIYO38676.3858449074@anonymous.poster...
Right. I like ToBe's success stories. I value Scn tech as well, regardless
of however that may freak other people out.
But, ToBe needs to grant beingness to other people.
That doesn't mean that ToBe has to agree with those other people- far from
it. But it's just that, well, Scn'ists want people to cut them some slack
and stop ranking on them for being Scn'ists- well, it behooves us to
practice what we preach.
I will always be grateful to this ng for helping me learn things that were
being kept from me and helping me make some decisions about CofS.
I had and still have critic friends and friendly acquaintances, and they
really did "grant (me) beingness". They cut me slack, they let me be me,
however one wants to phrase it. They never told me I should or shouldn't
believe anything. (there are people who do tell me such but I don't consider
those "friends" and never will) I knew damn well they didn't think much of
Scn but they never ever preached at me or "made (me) wrong".
The end result?
I could make my decision based on what was happening to me with those stupid
church communications and situations and on what I was finding out to be the
case.
Telling people how wrong they are only puts their back up.
I understand about being defensive. I understand it all too well. But, well,
this is a critical forum and Michael P is well liked here. It's a mistake to
come on here yelling at him or anybody.
Even if ToBe were right about the people he is taking to task, still, the
scolding and so forth will have the same effect on them that the maunderings
and scoldings from critics have on me, ToBe, or anyone else who gets one.
IOW, it gets a point across- but not the one that the scolder is trying to
make.
C