SP's in Scientology
Stephen Von Hatten
If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
There are 6 different requirements for being declared an SP:
"1. PUBLIC DISAVOWAL OF SCIENTOLOGY OR SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING
WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS."
I can see both halves. Some say that this is a cult mentality, others
say it's because they want to keep their wins.
"2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
"SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
This is certainly understandable.
"3. CALCULATED EFFORTS TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF
PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
I can also understand this. Every church should have a right to
function at its own expense.
"4. ACTS CALCULATED TO MISUSE, INVALIDATE OR ALTER-IS LEGALLY OR IN
ANY OTHER WAY THE TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS OF DIANETICS AND
SCIENTOLOGY."
Completely understandable.
"5. FAILURE TO HANDLE OR DISAVOW AND DISCONNECT FROM A PERSON
DEMONSTRABLY GUILTY OF SUPPRESSIVE ACTS."
Again... half seeing this here.
"6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
So once you're in, you're in for life??? God no! Don't let this be
true. Somebody want to explain this to me? Please tell me I didn't
throw away 6 precious years only to find out that I've been supporting
a cult or a group of people with cultic tendencies.
We need freedom. I should be able to go to other churches that aren't
Scientology without getting declared an SP. I can't allow any group to
have that much control over me. God, please!
I'm looking for help here.
joekim...@yahoo.com
want to leave Scientology anyway?
Susan
"Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172909052.3...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
Congratulations, you are starting to wake up!
Susan
Stephen Von Hatten
> yes if you leave you are no better than a traitor to me why would you
> want to leave Scientology anyway?
Because I need something that is spiritually, socially, and mentally
stimulating. No wonder I haven't been really satisfied with it. It
completely lacks mental stimulation. God! How could I have not seen
this 2 or 3 years earlier?
jerald
wrote:
Stephen,
Better to write off 6 years now then 25 years if you stay in. A high
crime to leave and speak out? Thats not a church.
jerald
joekim...@yahoo.com
Scientology has helped you.
On Mar 3, 12:27 am, "Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com>
wrote:
joekim...@yahoo.com
jerald
> you need to go back into the org, the bigots here are a bad influence.
Joe,
Why push him to stay if he's not happy?
jerald
Stephen Von Hatten
>
> - Show quoted text -
Now see here! You're treading on very personal ground. You want to
know? E-mail me and maybe I'll explain it to you a little more in
depth... maybe...
To be blunt, Scientology hasn't been spiritually stimulating for quite
some time, nor mentally. Why do you think I've been posting here? I
haven't been flaming any of the critics. I've been listening to their
side. It took Barbara Schwarz to post an SP document to realize that
the Church does not encourage freedom of religion for their own
Scientologists unless it's only for Scientology.
I can't live in an organization like that. That would choke me to my
death. Now I ask you... prove me wrong. I'd prefer it. This is a scary
conclusion that I feel I am coming to. Is it all just a facade? Lies?
Dave Touretzky
Stephen Von Hatten <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
>
>So once you're in, you're in for life???
No. You can leave. You just can't tell people that you've left, or
discuss your reasons for having done so. You are NOT free to say
anything critical about Scientology, even after you've left it.
This is, after all, the only group on the planet that offers you "the
Bridge to Total Freedom (tm)". So keep your mouth shut and your head
down, because that's how free beings act, isn't it?
-- Dave
joekim...@yahoo.com
Stephen Von Hatten
>
> - Show quoted text -
What good would my org do? I pay them more money for some more
services? What's the difference? They can't help in the situation that
I'm in! Money can't buy happiness!!!
Something really bad happened this week in my family. Not a death, but
a paralyzing disease (MS). Scientology can't help in this situation.
It can't do anything! I instinctively went back to my original roots
before (and sorta during) Scientology. Scientology was always the main
practice, but I had the religion that I was raised in originally.
This observation proves to myself (which is perhaps the most important
person to prove to... yourself...) that Scientology has not been to my
satisfaction. I felt it for a while, tried to keep it silent, but I
can't anymore.
navy.intern...@gmail.com
wrote:
Stephen, I was never in, but I am one of the many critics. Your story
and your problem is not new. Many scientologists in doubt experience
the same feelings. It is for many the first step on the way out. First
you see a "red flag": something that doesn't seem right. Then there
are more "red flags" and the doubt grows. It is logical to first look
at what Scientology says, and it must be clear to you now that it is
not a religion, can not be a religion that uses the 6 "requirments"
you posted. You must realise that these "requirments" are only for
people "IN". When you're OUT and no longer a scientologist tthese
"requirments" are of no value at all.
Many people were declared SP, and did it make them unhappy? Did it
destroy their life? Did the declare made them lesser human? No! Once
OUT you will, in time, realise these requirments serve only one goal:
to keep you IN. Because when OUT they can not milk you from your money
anymore, then they have no longer power over you anymore.
Take a look overhere: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/index.php?f=3, and
read the story of others that left. It certainly will be of help to
make the right decision. Must reads are the stories of Dr. Donna
Shannon.
If you wish, I can, and will, bring you in contact with Tommy Gorman.
He is a nice guy that helps scientologists who want to get out.
Just send me an e-mail and I will PM it to Tommy so he can get in
contact with you.
Take care!
navy.intern...@gmail.com
You can contact me here:
peterschilte[at]wanadoo.nl
joekim...@yahoo.com
right path again. again, what is more stimulating than Scientology?
Scientology can do everything for you, you just are lacking
dedication.
so not listen to the false data of the critics.
jerald
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why does it always have to be someones fault Joe? What false data are
you speaking of? Cant it be as simple as scientology not being right
for him?
jerald
Stephen Von Hatten
>
> - Show quoted text -
How insensitive and incompetent do you have to be to make a statement
like that?
Who are you to tell me what I feel. You don't know what I feel. Have
you ever been told that your immediate family member is in the
hospital and has been for 3 days while doctors are trying to stabize
her? I was VERY dedicated. I told everyone I knew about what
Scientology could do for them. To put it simply, I just feel like
Scientology isn't for me anymore. I've learned a few things, but it's
not worth not being able to think for yourself or to be declared an SP
if you do.
Now I'm not saying I agree with everything that these people are
saying, but it would seem odd to me that I'm running across OT 5's,
6's, 7's.... all bitter about the management or technology of the
church. Isn't there something wrong there?
And I'm not going to be part of any religion that you have to keep
silent. Now, I've written my org asking if they can provide an
alternate explaination. I'm not leaving until they do. Or a week..
whichever comes first. If you work for OSA, maybe you can help in this
situation. SLC Mission. I want ANSWERS!!!
>what is more stimulating than Scientology?
Did I once talk to you in Verizon Customer Retention Services? Because
that sounds like something they would say. Let's get some REAL
answers. Cut the BS and get straight to the point. I'm tired of being
knocked down.
navy.intern...@gmail.com
Joe, all you have to offer is Scientology. And Scientology is only in
it for the money: How much money did you "give" to them?
It is obvious that Scientology can not help. Otherwise Stephen
wouldn't be here. He starts seeing what thousands before him have
seen: it just doesn't work. Have the decensy to let him make his own
decisions. Your "help" is not required: he knows about Scientology.
realpch
Well, I'd take a nice break from paying for services at your local org,
and give youself a deadline, maybe six months, to think it all over. And
of course, I recommend that you spend some fair time reading at the
websites in my sigfile. Don't decide anything, just look about for a bit.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
realpch
>
> yes if you leave you are no better than a traitor to me why would you
> want to leave Scientology anyway?
I haven't been keeping up. Do you two know each other?
Stephen Von Hatten
Never met him in my life. If he's got answers, though, then I want him
to answer them. I'll post them here so that he can save some time in
going from post to post.
> try getting your family member into Scientology, it will help.
> > > Was my prediction right? Did the clamboy split from his girlfriend after
> > > she posted here?
> > > I don't see him posting here any more. Was I right about that, too?
> > > What's it like, being so pathetically predictable?
> > > --
> > > Barb
> > > Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
> > > "Keep fighting for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't forget to
> > > have fun doin' it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous,
> > > ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can
> > > produce."
> > > --Molly Ivins
> > You be REAL careful barb. Family has a lot to do with it. The break up
> > was a 2 way agreement.
> > A family member (and I won't mention names or family relations so they
> > won't be "raped" on these forums) was diagnosed with MS.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
She's paralyzed you idiot! You're crossing the line.
You want to solve some problems? Start answering MY questions, or I
may end up turning into one of these "bigots."
Why are OT 5's+ leaving the Church of Scientology?
How can you honestly believe that blind statement "Scientology can
cure MS" to be true? Scientology can't cure physical disease! I've
argued with critics for so long that Scientology and Christian
Science
are two different religions. You want to prove me wrong on that one?
Why is the staff at my org - SLC Mission - so slow to respond all of
the time? It seems that when I needed them most, they were unable to
respond. Is that how Scientology helps in times of crises?
When I did get a response it was about distributing flyers about
Scientology.
Question: Why do I have to pay for the prostelezation handouts? If I
have people are interested in Scientology, then why should I have to
pay for them to get in? Why should they have to?
If David Miscavage says he's never heard about Xenu EVER and he does
it on national television, why are so many OT's that are coming out
of
the Church of Scientology talking about it like they believed it?
Why would the Xenu story be considered a violation of copyright on
the
war that Scientology has with the Internet if David Miscavage hasn't
heard about it? Let's put things in perspective... David Miscavage =
RTC :: RTC = Holder of Copyrights. This has been going on for a
looooooooooooong time, yet David has never heard about it? Is he just
stupid or is he lying?
You answer these questions, Joe, and I'll CONSIDER staying in
Scientology and giving it a second try.
t...@dtp2maz.dk
There are LOTS of policy on why tou can't and shouldn't. The purpose
of those are to persuade you not to.. Obviously.
You can 'route out' as per policy, but realize that this effort on you
part to leave peacefully and orderly is used to persuade you not to
leave. If that purpose fails the intent is to cave you in and
intimidate you to keep your mouth shut. Scios are not quitters, so
routing out may be timeconsuming and leave you in a mess if you do
leave at the end of it. So it's a waste of time and possibly your
wits. And while we're at it, they don't need any signatures from you.
They have that on all your success stories... Like they needed those..
No Q&A! - Just do it!
Were you on staff? - DOUBT is used as an 'ethics condition'! - We were
practically trained like dogs to detest and avoid DOUBT!
The fact is that doubt is a very natural and human response to
anything we don't know for sure. Hubbard advices to 'examine the
actual stats', but Scientology does not provide the actual stats for
anything. It is not possible to axamine Scientologys actual stats when
all we have is PR and hype!
Doubt is a very sane reaction when faced with incredible and fantastic
tales of OT powers, Space Opera and Marcabians...
And that may be the reason for the 'conditioning' about the concept of
doubt... Did you learn somewhere that doubt is your bank and should be
ignored?
The Church making all this drama and bad wibes about leaving is simply
bad manners! - It is in itself an outpoint and out ethics on their
part.
To quote on of the policy points in your post:
"3. CALCULATED EFFORTS TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF
PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
So you're supposedly an SP if you do that? - If this church is a money
making scam, then these actions is perfectly ethical wouldn't you say?
SchwimmelPuckel ;)
Stephen Von Hatten
I'll give it a while... like what Peach suggested. And it's a
religion... I don't think that anyone should inhibit relgion. No
matter how wrong that religion may seem.
I think I've also read somewhere about the doubt thing. Didn't click
until just now. God! I'm I brainwashed? Or just plain stupid?!! I feel
so confused.
Carla
wrote:
> Why are OT 5's+ leaving the Church of Scientology?
> Why is the staff at my org - SLC Mission - so slow to respond all of
> the time? It seems that when I needed them most, they were unable to
> respond. Is that how Scientology helps in times of crises?
>
> When I did get a response it was about distributing flyers about
> Scientology.
>
> Question: Why do I have to pay for the prostelezation handouts? If I
> have people are interested in Scientology, then why should I have to
> pay for them to get in? Why should they have to?
>
> If David Miscavage says he's never heard about Xenu EVER and he does
> it on national television, why are so many OT's that are coming out
> of
> the Church of Scientology talking about it like they believed it?
>
> Why would the Xenu story be considered a violation of copyright on
> the
> war that Scientology has with the Internet if David Miscavage hasn't
> heard about it? Let's put things in perspective... David Miscavage =
> RTC :: RTC = Holder of Copyrights. This has been going on for a
> looooooooooooong time, yet David has never heard about it? Is he just
> stupid or is he lying?
I'll answer these questions for you, Stephen.
OT's are leaving Scn because they are not getting OT abilities that
they were promised. They pay a fortune, maybe have some wins, but NOT
OT abilities. They often won't say anything because they think it is
just them, or they don't want to confront the repercussions of coming
out and saying that Scn doesn't work....by that I mean a declare and
disconnection from friends and family for speaking their mind.
Exactly what you are facing. This is an internal control mechanism.
It is very effective in controlling a members speech and his
communication. But keep in mind that it is INTERNAL.
Do you know that there is approximately 35.000 ex SO members, and that
vast majority of them are declared? And that's just SP's that used to
be in the SO. Believe me, it's not the end of the world, it's the
beginning of the rest of your life.
Just up and go. You'll be in good company. And you will not be losing
anything.
Why do you have to pay for handouts to give to friends? Because
Scientology wants your money as their primary goal. Unfortunate but
true.
David Miscavige hasn't heard of Xenu? He's lying.
Scientology had some workable tech at one time. It was also a fun
group at one time. It is currently selling altered tech and is
dramatizing some seriously oppressive shit. My heartfelt
advice....leave now.
Eldon
wrote:
You need to go through those six criteria again and examine each one
with a big grain of salt. Consider how they will be interpreted by
Scientology "ethics" staff within the fascist context of Scientology.
Here's just one simple example:
"2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
"SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
"This is certainly understandable."
----
No it isn't. Anything you say about Scientology or its leadership,
even in the spirit of honest inquiry or criticism, will be taken as
malicious rumormongering IF they choose to interpret it that way,
which is highly likely.
Here's an easy way to test it: Find an early copy of a book, compare
it with the current "based on the works of LRH" edition, and ask who
the hell changed the original wording. Is Miscavige tampering with the
tech? See this document by "Safe." For specific examples, scroll to
1988, about halfway down the page.
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/stolgy_26.htm
These are proven, documented tech alterations. Shove them in someone's
face and see what answer you get. Probably they'll give you a lame
runaround excuse and order you to get some auditing until you
"cognite" on why that is OK.
t...@dtp2maz.dk
exempt from critisism. Religion is beliefsystems which may well
contain wrong beliefs. Just like any political system or a scientific
theory.. If it's wrong it must be argued and set right.
Would keeping you own kids from signing an SO contract be considered a
"CALCULATED EFFORT TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF PUBLIC UP
THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES." - ?
I've seen this argued by staff. The parent hauled into an ethics
handling for BI's.
About doubt.. This is related to 'thinkingness' which is also bad
according to Hubbards tech. I'm sure you already know this stuff.. A
thetan 'knows' and all that... Without telling in so many words, the
implication is that your 'thinking' is invalidated as 'bank'. You're
supposed to 'dublicate' as the cool thing to do.
That your thoughts and opinions is possibly 'bank' and not to be
trusted is a logical consequence of the engram theory. You
'supposedly' have 'engramic commands' influencing your very awareness
and perceptions without you knowing about it. Hubbard persuaded you
that you cannot think, and he had a nifty name for this condition.
We're abberees!
Until you're clear that is..
But then there are Body Thetans. Without you knowing about it they
influence your very awareness and perceptions.. Works just like the
'bank' and have you where you can't trust your own mind.
You're supposed to 'dublicate' all this without thinking or doubting
any of it.
It's all lies! - And I'll use another little Hubbardian logic twist
and say: This is not my 'opinion' or 'belief'. I KNOW this!
Now, doubt and thinking (or intelligence) is what set humans apart
from animals. It's the cool thing that we can do best. A sabertooth
tiger has his saberteeth and he always 'knows' to kill and eat. Not
thinking much about it at all. And he's extinct btw.
What I'm driving at here is that all this discouragement by Hubbard to
think and use our own wits is wrong.
SchwimmelPuckel ;)
You'll be most welcome at any of these online message boards where the
debate is less hampered by OSA noise.
Operation Clambake Message Board:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/index.php
F.A.C.T Net Message Board:
http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
Ex Scientologist Message Board:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/
****
realpch
>
> On Mar 3, 2:36 am, realpch <real...@aol.com> wrote:
> > joekimper...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > yes if you leave you are no better than a traitor to me why would you
> > > want to leave Scientology anyway?
> >
> > I haven't been keeping up. Do you two know each other?
> >
> > Peach
> > --
> > Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
> > Save some dough, save some grief:http://www.xenu.nethttp://www.scientology-lies.com
>
> Never met him in my life. If he's got answers, though, then I want him
> to answer them. I'll post them here so that he can save some time in
> going from post to post.
>
Oh. Well, he's taken a rather hard line. I don't think I'd spend a lot
of time on the guy.
barbz
> you ring false to me. go back to your local org and work things out
Hahaha...fuck off, Joe. You're not the boss of Steve, so quit trying to
order him around.
Ed
Stephen Von Hatten wrote:
>
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
[snipped]
>
> I'm looking for help here.
First, and less important, you already are in hot water and
due for a lot of ethics trouble when your very overloaded, barely
coping HCO and OSA get around to dealing with you. Expect them to be
very sweet and reasonable at first but they'll use every trick,
technique and policy (ethics gradients) they have with the intention
of getting you back in the group (if they consider you potentially
worthwhile) and getting you to shut up, stay off a.r.s., and otherwise
to not hang out with SPs.
I think you'll find that the feeling of being free and walking away
from them will be very sweet, even if it's hard at first.
Second and more important, you can imagine yourself near the end of a
long and wonderful life many decades from now looking back at 2007 and
being very very grateful that you made the choice in 2007 to walk away
from Scn.
It doesn't matter how long it takes a person to get free from a cult,
the point is the lesson that is learned. Millions of very fine people
now value freedom a lot more than before because they have passed
through a cult experience and made the choice to follow their
integrity rather than what the cult slaves tell you to do. Scn is just
one of many cults which perform the "service" of providing people the
opportunity to experience of very authoritarian control, verging on
totalitarian, but in a fairly open and free society which allows the
possibility of escaping more easily than, say, North Korea.
Do enjoy your freedom, Steve!
Ed
barbz
> the org would help you in your crisis of faith and set you back on the
> right path again. again, what is more stimulating than Scientology?
Watching paint dry, for one thing...
> Scientology can do everything for you, you just are lacking
> dedication.
Yeah? How about you offer Stephen some false hope like your group did
Tory, promising to cure her epilepsy? Or will you tell him he pulled it in?
>
> so not listen to the false data of the critics.
Yeah. Everybody lies but Scientology supporters, cuz they so "ethical."
>
>
>> Something really bad happened this week in my family. Not a death, but
>> a paralyzing disease (MS). Scientology can't help in this situation.
>> It can't do anything! I instinctively went back to my original roots
>> before (and sorta during) Scientology. Scientology was always the main
>> practice, but I had the religion that I was raised in originally.
>>
>> This observation proves to myself (which is perhaps the most important
>> person to prove to... yourself...) that Scientology has not been to my
>> satisfaction. I felt it for a while, tried to keep it silent, but I
>> can't anymore.
>
>
Zinj
@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, stephen....@gmail.com
says...
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
>
> There are 6 different requirements for being declared an SP:
>
> "1. PUBLIC DISAVOWAL OF SCIENTOLOGY OR SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING
> WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS."
>
> I can see both halves. Some say that this is a cult mentality, others
> say it's because they want to keep their wins.
>
> "2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
> REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
> "SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
>
> This is certainly understandable.
>
> PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
>
> function at its own expense.
>
> "4. ACTS CALCULATED TO MISUSE, INVALIDATE OR ALTER-IS LEGALLY OR IN
> ANY OTHER WAY THE TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS OF DIANETICS AND
> SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> Completely understandable.
>
> "5. FAILURE TO HANDLE OR DISAVOW AND DISCONNECT FROM A PERSON
> DEMONSTRABLY GUILTY OF SUPPRESSIVE ACTS."
>
> Again... half seeing this here.
>
> "6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> So once you're in, you're in for life??? God no! Don't let this be
> true. Somebody want to explain this to me? Please tell me I didn't
> throw away 6 precious years only to find out that I've been supporting
> a cult or a group of people with cultic tendencies.
>
> We need freedom. I should be able to go to other churches that aren't
> Scientology without getting declared an SP. I can't allow any group to
> have that much control over me. God, please!
>
I think you're beginning to see behind the curtain. Here's some
more of it:
----------------------------
When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the
duration of the universe—never permit an "open-minded" approach.
If they're going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled,
they're aboard; and if they're aboard, they're here on the same
terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let
them be half-minded about being Scientologists. The finest
organizations in history have been tough, dedicated
organizations. Not one namby-pamby bunch of panty-waist
dilettantes have ever made anything. It's a tough universe. The
social veneer makes it seem mild. But only the tigers
survive—and even they have a hard time. We'll survive because we
are tough and are dedicated. When we do instruct somebody
properly he becomes more and more tiger. When we instruct half-
mindedly and are afraid to offend, scared to enforce, we don't
make students into good Scientologists and that lets everybody
down. When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that
wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare and
she'll win and we'll all win. Humor her and we all die a little.
The proper instruction attitude is "You're here so you're a
Scientologist. Now we're going to make you into an expert
auditor no matter what happens. We'd rather have you dead than
incapable."
[...]
We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't
cute or something to do for lack of something better.
The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman
and child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless
trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and
in Scientology.
This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting
out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.
Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the
endless trillions of years of the past. Don't muff it now
because it seems unpleasant or unsocial to do Seven, Eight, Nine
and Ten.
Do them and we'll win.
---------------------------
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
K Palmer
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
> If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
>
> There are 6 different requirements for being declared an SP:
>
> "1. PUBLIC DISAVOWAL OF SCIENTOLOGY OR SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING
> WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS."
>
> I can see both halves. Some say that this is a cult mentality, others
> say it's because they want to keep their wins.
If they are truly "wins" and not just assigned wins by some outside
authority (like scientology) then no one no matter what can take them
away - either they are or they are not and no outside pressure can
change that regardless of some "policy" set up by some one else.
>
> "2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
> REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
> "SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
>
> This is certainly understandable.
It is fear tactic - an enforcement of the "you are either for us or
against us" mentality which does not allow any criticism or questioning
of anything.
>
> "3. CALCULATED EFFORTS TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF
> PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
>
> I can also understand this. Every church should have a right to
> function at its own expense.
The upset is not about disrupting services but rather in disrupting the
flow of money from unsuspecting victims. KSW is all about making
money,making more money, and making others produce so as to make more money.
>
> "4. ACTS CALCULATED TO MISUSE, INVALIDATE OR ALTER-IS LEGALLY OR IN
> ANY OTHER WAY THE TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS OF DIANETICS AND
> SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> Completely understandable.
Yeah - this is another fear tactic designed to shudder into silence
anyone who in any way doubts or questions anything taught by scientology
or anyone who dares speak out the truth about the con. And again is
about the flow of money into the coffers of the cult.
>
> "5. FAILURE TO HANDLE OR DISAVOW AND DISCONNECT FROM A PERSON
> DEMONSTRABLY GUILTY OF SUPPRESSIVE ACTS."
>
> Again... half seeing this here.
BE AFRAID - fear is a great tool - if I am declared all my friends and
family will have to disconnect from me. True friends do not abandon
someone who has decided a belief system no longer fits - family is
family and is more important than any belief system and disconnection is
just the cruelest form of thought control and suppression there is.
>
> "6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> So once you're in, you're in for life??? God no! Don't let this be
> true. Somebody want to explain this to me? Please tell me I didn't
> throw away 6 precious years only to find out that I've been supporting
> a cult or a group of people with cultic tendencies.
Scientology does not want any one to leave - it is, after all, mankind's
only hope. Leaving means you have overts and withholds and who knows
what else. The entire doctrine is set up to trap you and keep you
trapped - especially if you have family involved - the threat of
disconnection is the huge stick used to keep you in line - to shudder
you into silence so that the abusive policies and procedures will not be
exposed to the light of day as the cruel and disgusting things they are.
>
> We need freedom. I should be able to go to other churches that aren't
> Scientology without getting declared an SP. I can't allow any group to
> have that much control over me. God, please!
>
> I'm looking for help here.
>
The first step is realizing that scientology has abusive policies and
procedures that have nothing to do with "thinking for yourself" but are
designed to keep you ensnared in a mindset that is
suppressive,oppressive and the very opposite of freedom.
The second step is to realize that scientology cannot bar you from
leaving nor can they bar you from speaking your mind or thinking for
yourself.
Take time to read, to learn about mind control and the trap that
scientology has constructed. Relax,sleep, eat well, and talk to people
who are knowledgeable about such things.
Spend time doing the things you really enjoy - fishing,reading,sports or
whatever it is that you have always found refreshing and rejuvenating -
do not obsess with the situation you find yourself in.
It may take time but you will come to terms with all of what has
transpired and the confusion you feel now will diminish.
Regardless of what you do or what happens be true to yourself - take
time to think,learn,and process all the information available to you -do
not rush into anything else - ask as many questions as you need - to
clarify,understand, and process - this is what learning really is - not
rote recitation of facts and figures but studying the entire picture -
everything and all sides. Taking the time to do this will be helpful to
you as you sort out everything.
Talking to those who have gone this road before you can also be helpful
if you so choose.
Thinking for yourself and making informed decisions is not always easy
nor is it always pleasant but it is part of the process of learning and
growing.
Kim P
Zinj
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, stephen....@gmail.com
says...
I think you should adopt David Letterman's:
'I been hypnotized!'
Then hum a few bars of The Who's:
'Won't Get Fooled Again'; while being mindful of the *rest* of
the lyrics.
And take a break :)
You escaped. Many people get caught for 20, 30 years, and, by
then it's *far* more difficult to 'get out', once Scientology is
your *whole* life; like 'it' intends to be.
Be thankful you didn't let them pressure you into the Sea Org.
Watch some TV; read some books; go bowling; talk to *friends*
(not 'handlers') and have fun :)
It's a great big weird and wonderful world out there; not some
little sweatbox pressure cooker with delusions of grandeur.
Good luck.
spbill
[..]
>Because I need something that is spiritually, socially, and mentally
>stimulating. No wonder I haven't been really satisfied with it. It
>completely lacks mental stimulation. God! How could I have not seen
>this 2 or 3 years earlier?
Heh! Now you're writing anti-Scientology letters to the press. That's
one of the things they declared me for. You're cruisin' for a bruisin'
aren't you? :-)
spbill
Zinj
says...
Well, to be perfectly 'clear', the 'bruisin' is practically
never directly administered by the 'Church' (or applied
religious philosophy or the 'Ethics Officer'.)
Instead, the mooch is instructed to whack *himself* until he
pummels himself back into the 'good graces' :)
The only real 'stick' the 'Church' has against its members is
'Disconnection' (the loss of the imaginary Bridge is imaginary
anyway :)
Ball of Fluff
news:1172927363....@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> I'm not prepared to grant 'religion' a sacred status in which it is
> exempt from critisism. Religion is beliefsystems which may well
> contain wrong beliefs. Just like any political system or a scientific
> theory.. If it's wrong it must be argued and set right.
Right. Anyone should be free to criticize and critique.
>
> Would keeping you own kids from signing an SO contract be considered a
> "CALCULATED EFFORT TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF PUBLIC UP
> THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES." - ?
>
> I've seen this argued by staff. The parent hauled into an ethics
> handling for BI's.
And that's just plain wrong.
>
> About doubt.. This is related to 'thinkingness' which is also bad
> according to Hubbards tech. I'm sure you already know this stuff.. A
> thetan 'knows' and all that... Without telling in so many words, the
> implication is that your 'thinking' is invalidated as 'bank'. You're
> supposed to 'dublicate' as the cool thing to do.
Doubt is used as a witchfinding tool in CofS.
C
Ball of Fluff
news:45E97CF7...@pronetisp.net...
>
>
> Stephen Von Hatten wrote:
>>
>> The lightbulb just went off.
>>
> [snipped]
>>
>> I'm looking for help here.
>
> First, and less important, you already are in hot water and
> due for a lot of ethics trouble when your very overloaded, barely
> coping HCO and OSA get around to dealing with you. Expect them to be
> very sweet and reasonable at first but they'll use every trick,
> technique and policy (ethics gradients) they have with the intention
> of getting you back in the group (if they consider you potentially
> worthwhile) and getting you to shut up, stay off a.r.s., and otherwise
> to not hang out with SPs.
Yes, they'll start out sweet and reasonable. But once they decide Steven's a
problem, especially if they get a call or telex from OSA, it won't be so
sweet and reasonable any more.
>
> I think you'll find that the feeling of being free and walking away
> from them will be very sweet, even if it's hard at first.
Well, I don't think Steven's yet at the stage where he's not feeling so
free. He's not on staff, he's just taking some courses.
>
> Second and more important, you can imagine yourself near the end of a
> long and wonderful life many decades from now looking back at 2007 and
> being very very grateful that you made the choice in 2007 to walk away
> from Scn.
See above.
>
> It doesn't matter how long it takes a person to get free from a cult,
> the point is the lesson that is learned. Millions of very fine people
> now value freedom a lot more than before because they have passed
> through a cult experience and made the choice to follow their
> integrity rather than what the cult slaves tell you to do. Scn is just
> one of many cults which perform the "service" of providing people the
> opportunity to experience of very authoritarian control, verging on
> totalitarian, but in a fairly open and free society which allows the
> possibility of escaping more easily than, say, North Korea.
Thing is, though, Ed, it does not feel like a cult early on when one is only
taking courses, getting a little auditing etc. Yes, it is a cult, I'm not
arguing about that, but it doesn't feel like one that early on, generally.
Right now, the thing that might most be applicable to Stephen's situation
is - are they lying to him and how have things worked out for other people
who did elect to get deeply into CofS?
C
Ball of Fluff
news:1172912082....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 3, 12:44 am, joekimper...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> either you are a fool or a liar. why this sudden change of heart if
>> Scientology has helped you.
>>
>> On Mar 3, 12:27 am, "Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 3, 12:08 am, joekimper...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> > > yes if you leave you are no better than a traitor to me why would you
>> > > want to leave Scientology anyway?
>>
>> > stimulating. No wonder I haven't been really satisfied with it. It
>> > completely lacks mental stimulation. God! How could I have not seen
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Now see here! You're treading on very personal ground. You want to
> know? E-mail me and maybe I'll explain it to you a little more in
> depth... maybe...
>
> To be blunt, Scientology hasn't been spiritually stimulating for quite
> some time, nor mentally. Why do you think I've been posting here? I
> haven't been flaming any of the critics. I've been listening to their
> side. It took Barbara Schwarz to post an SP document to realize that
> the Church does not encourage freedom of religion for their own
> Scientologists unless it's only for Scientology.
Right, they don't. She has been posting (and reposting and rererereposting)
my expel/declare. It was for posting HERE. I was getting hassled by CofS
long before I wrote one single critical thing.
>
> I can't live in an organization like that. That would choke me to my
> death. Now I ask you... prove me wrong. I'd prefer it. This is a scary
> conclusion that I feel I am coming to. Is it all just a facade? Lies?
There are some interesting techniques, methods and philosophical ideas in
Scn. Some good ones and some that aren't so good.
CofS is a cult, however, and the deeper a person gets into it, the more they
will take from that person.
C
Ball of Fluff
"Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172909052.3...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
> If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
P/M
That's one of the things they tried to hang me on- 'cept I'd already LEFT
CofS.
They said I publicly disavowed CofS.
Actually, I hadn't. I'd said I was inactive but since OSA was driving the
expulsion, well, that was one of the things they wanted to put in there.
>
> There are 6 different requirements for being declared an SP:
>
> "1. PUBLIC DISAVOWAL OF SCIENTOLOGY OR SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING
> WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS."
>
> I can see both halves. Some say that this is a cult mentality, others
> say it's because they want to keep their wins.
Stephen, what you have to ask yourself is are these charges even true?
In many cases, they're not. They're trumped up.
Re my expulsion- I did not do the above. Not before my expulsion, anyway.
>
> "2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
> REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
> "SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
>
> This is certainly understandable.
But they lie, Stephen. They will say people are doing things they aren't
doing.
>
> "3. CALCULATED EFFORTS TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF
> PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
>
> I can also understand this. Every church should have a right to
> function at its own expense.
See above.
>
> "4. ACTS CALCULATED TO MISUSE, INVALIDATE OR ALTER-IS LEGALLY OR IN
> ANY OTHER WAY THE TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS OF DIANETICS AND
> SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> Completely understandable.
But it gets twisted ten million different ways. So they'll accuse people of
doing things they did not actually do.
>
> "5. FAILURE TO HANDLE OR DISAVOW AND DISCONNECT FROM A PERSON
> DEMONSTRABLY GUILTY OF SUPPRESSIVE ACTS."
>
> Again... half seeing this here.
I'm not. I'll associate with whomever I please. And since a lot of
expulsions are political ANYWAY, then, no, that's crap.
>
> "6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> So once you're in, you're in for life??? God no! Don't let this be
> true. Somebody want to explain this to me? Please tell me I didn't
> throw away 6 precious years only to find out that I've been supporting
> a cult or a group of people with cultic tendencies.
See the word "PUBLICLY", Stephen. They're saying they don't want you to
ANNOUNCE it.
Yes, they do want people to be in for life, etc, and it's very cultic there,
but that's not what the above means. They're saying don't go on tv, the
radio, the internet, etc, don't make a big stink at the mission or org.
>
> We need freedom. I should be able to go to other churches that aren't
> Scientology without getting declared an SP. I can't allow any group to
> have that much control over me. God, please!
That's not what the above says. A person can drop in on his friendly local
neighborhood Methodist or Catholic church without getting in trouble with
CofS.
Although if you do it enough, local staff will resent the amount of time you
are taking away from time THEY feel you could be spending at CofS.
But, no, you're not gonna get slammed by them for going to a Protestant
service or Catholic Mass or whatever.
But you will get slammed for denigrating Scn, CofS, Hubbard, not doing what
they tell you, posting here, etc.
C
OSASpammer
wrote:
There are three ways to leave Scientology.
1)Get up and leave.
2)The way Lisa McPherson left. An order to "End Cycle" is essentially
the same thing.[LINK]www.lisamcpherson.org[/LINK]
3)Get offloaded when you are too old to be useful to them.
In the end all scientologists either die young or become ex-
Scientologists. Becoming an ex-Scientologist isn't something to be
afraid of. It is the natural and inevitable conclusion to becoming a
scientologist. Why not "be cause" over your own departure? You can
do it at the time and in the manner of your own choosing. Will ten
years from now be a better time to leave or a worse?
If the things that you say about scientology are true then wouldn't
remaining a scientologist be the real "dwindling spiral"?
Eldon
wrote:
> "Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1172909052.3...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
are essentially saying that you should not say anything to anyone at
the mission or org othere than "proper terminals" about leaving. You
are supposed to slink away in the dark of the night, in silence. And
in fact, if you continue to see friends from Scientology once you're
out, they will threaten them with being labeled PTS, since you are "in
treason."
Zinj
31g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, Eldo...@aol.com says...
Leaving 'publicly' is a 'High Crime', but, leaving at *all* is a
violation of the 'Scientology Code of Honor' :)
2) Never withdraw allegiance once granted.
3) Never desert a group to which you owe your support.
Yup; that's 'honor' all right :)
Quaoar
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
> If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
As I read your post, it appears to me that you have, in fact, answered
your own questions and have resolved your conflicts to your benefit.
It remains only for you to act on what you have posted. Leaving the
kult is much like divorce: you have all the reasons for doing so, but
your intellect and your emotions are in conflict. Follow your intellect.
Q
mr.ep...@gmail.com
>
> I'm looking for help here.
OK Stephen let me answer all your prayers here. I was in scientology
35 years - yes - 35 years. I am a declared SP.
I have been out since 1982 so I have had time to reflect on everything
that happened or didn't.
Firstly Orgs don't need a a factual reason to declare anyone. They
make up a reason - I've seen it many times over the years.
As an OT 4 I can honestly say what scientology is peddling is bunkum -
especially the OT levels. Maybe there are some helpful routines lower
down but NOTHING you can't get outside scientology. If you still
insist on doing scientology - as I did for a few months after leaving
- then you can. It's ALL out there if you want it. Don't worry about
being cut off from whatever you want.
These days all that will happen to you when you leave is that SOME of
your friends (maybe family) will disconnect from you. That's
something you will have to be prepared for. Before I left I made
certain my partner and baby daughter came with me. I did it
surreptitiously and very deliberately. It was much harder then as
there was no internet or TV doing things on scientology.
Whatever you do don't get wrapped up in the significances of what you
are doing to the "group". Bugger the group! Do what is right for
*you* and your family.
So you wasted 6 years - tough. You'll get over it. We all do and
then we praise the Lord that we did. So will you. Why waist the rest
of your life? Scientology has no substance to help you but it will
certainly cause you anguish and pain.
It sounds as if you have the right idea anyways - go for it.
By the way - far more people have left scientology than ever stayed
with it!!
Disregard that character joekimper - he is just running an "op" on
you. You have the right and the freedom to say and listen to anything
you want. You have the right to join and leave any group you want.
Currently scientology is a criminal organisation and probably always
was. Why would you want to contribute to that? Why would anyone want
to do that?
regards Martin
mr.ep...@gmail.com
> yes if you leave you are no better than a traitor to me why would you
> want to leave Scientology anyway?
If he stays in scientology he will be a traitor to humanity, himself,
his friends and family. Sometime we have to be a "traitor" to
something. When a person finds out he has made a mistake he must
correct it.
You ask the wrong question. "Why should anyone stay IN scientology"
is the question! Do your research. Scientology is a criminal
organisation and members should leave it!! Well unless members like
supporting criminals that is.
Martin
Out_Of_The_Dark
Martin, I went over to xenutv & just watched, for the second time, the
60 Mins NZ show you were on last June. Your sincerity is so evident;
You give the most accurate description of what scientology is and what
scientology is trying to do and you did it with humility.
I think Stephen would benefit from watching it and putting a face to
what you wrote here.
Here is the link: http://www.xenutv.com/cruise/60min-nz.htm
Mary
Out_Of_The_Dark
mr.ep...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why thank you kindly Mary!!
Just to think - that prog would never have been made if it wasn't for
Tom Cruise. He had the ability to wake even the dead - me. That's
OT!! He certainly got the 60 Min reporter all fired up. Knocking
women with post natal depression wasn't really very clever - was it?
Immediately all the mums in the world spat at him.
I sort of like the prog although I am always embarrassed to see me in
it. The prog shows both sides of scientology as the law on
broadcasting here in NZ dictates. Even the scientology execs here
admitted it was well balanced.
It is something that can be shown to anyone - my 10 year old son
watched it and asked the obvious question - how can anyone believe the
Xenu story!!
Then he got upset when he thought scientology might come and *get*
us. I had to explain that scientology was pretty much a spent force
these days regarding "getting" people. However after Keith's arrest
recently you do have to wonder.
No I am certain scientology - ie - Miscavidge and backers are just in
the property development business now.
Regards
Martin
neil c
Mark Thorson
>
> I think I've also read somewhere about the doubt thing.
> Didn't click until just now. God! I'm I brainwashed?
> Or just plain stupid?!! I feel so confused.
Neither brainwashed nor stupid.
The tech didn't fail you,
you failed the tech!
You either:
a) In your courses, went past
a word without understanding it.
b) Committed crimes which you did
not disclose during auditing.
With regard to b), it's almost
always one of these:
1) Using drugs.
2) Committing homosexual acts.
3) Being a Communist.
So, which is it Stephen?
Are you drugged, homosexual, or Communist?
What are your crimes?
[This message was provided to you by
the joking and degrading division of
ARSCC, an international cooperative program
of the American Psychiatric Association,
Internal Revenue Service, and the Bank of
England. :-]
Stephen Von Hatten
Thanks for the humor. I think I needed it. I've been thinking about
all the things that I have gone through with Scientology and if it
really is worth leaving, and I think I've made my decision. You'll
probably be seeing a lot more of me. By the way... is there a way to
add a signature on these posts?
Zinj
@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, stephen....@gmail.com
says...
The more the merrier :)
You'll need your sense of humor whatever happens.
As to the 'sig'; your best bet is to get away from Google Groups
and begin using a 'real' newsreader.
You can use Microplanet Gravity, Agent, Outlook or even
Thunderbird apparently. All of them have provisions for 'kill
files' and 'signatures' and make reading usenet much easier.
Keith Henson
<stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 3, 1:52 am, joekimper...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> the org would help you in your crisis of faith and set you back on the
>> right path again. again, what is more stimulating than Scientology?
>> Scientology can do everything for you, you just are lacking
>> dedication.
>>
>> so not listen to the false data of the critics.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Something really bad happened this week in my family. Not a death, but
>> > a paralyzing disease (MS). Scientology can't help in this situation.
>> > It can't do anything! I instinctively went back to my original roots
>> > before (and sorta during) Scientology. Scientology was always the main
>> > practice, but I had the religion that I was raised in originally.
>>
>> > This observation proves to myself (which is perhaps the most important
>> > person to prove to... yourself...) that Scientology has not been to my
>> > satisfaction. I felt it for a while, tried to keep it silent, but I
>> > can't anymore.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>How insensitive and incompetent do you have to be to make a statement
>like that?
>
>Who are you to tell me what I feel. You don't know what I feel. Have
>you ever been told that your immediate family member is in the
>hospital and has been for 3 days while doctors are trying to stabize
>her? I was VERY dedicated. I told everyone I knew about what
>Scientology could do for them. To put it simply, I just feel like
>Scientology isn't for me anymore. I've learned a few things, but it's
>not worth not being able to think for yourself or to be declared an SP
>if you do.
>
>Now I'm not saying I agree with everything that these people are
>saying, but it would seem odd to me that I'm running across OT 5's,
>6's, 7's.... all bitter about the management or technology of the
>church. Isn't there something wrong there?
>
>And I'm not going to be part of any religion that you have to keep
>silent. Now, I've written my org asking if they can provide an
>alternate explaination. I'm not leaving until they do. Or a week..
>whichever comes first. If you work for OSA, maybe you can help in this
>situation. SLC Mission. I want ANSWERS!!!
>
>>what is more stimulating than Scientology?
>
>Did I once talk to you in Verizon Customer Retention Services? Because
>that sounds like something they would say. Let's get some REAL
>answers. Cut the BS and get straight to the point. I'm tired of being
>knocked down.
Fascinating exchange. I don't know if one or both or you are OSA or
critics pretending to be scientologists, but either it's real or a
darn good job.
Both of you might want to read and comment on this:
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/charlottedec.htm
Stephen, there are some major advances in treating MS. I know because
a good friend has it and stays up on all the treatments. Email me if
you want and I will put you in contact with her.
Keith Henson
hkhenson(at)rogers(dot)com
Keith Henson
<stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
>
>I'll give it a while... like what Peach suggested. And it's a
>religion... I don't think that anyone should inhibit relgion. No
>matter how wrong that religion may seem.
>
>I think I've also read somewhere about the doubt thing. Didn't click
>until just now. God! I'm I brainwashed? Or just plain stupid?!! I feel
>so confused.
You could put sex drugs cults into Google and read the first link.
The short version is that cults have much the same effect on your
brain as addictive drugs.
Keith Henson
joekim...@yahoo.com
http://www.parishioners.org/anti-religious-extremists/keith-henson/
Keith Henson
>you need to go back into the org, the bigots here are a bad influence.
That's a fact. SPs are *much* more powerful than OTs. When I first
showed up at DM's desert compound back in 2000, they would all run and
hide (-8 on the tone scale).
But what are *you* doing here? If you are not a critic playing
scientologist, then if you get caught you will face horrible ethics
handling. At least you are probably safe from the RPF since there are
few scientology staff who are permitted to go on the net.
In any case, lots of luck.
Keith Henson
Stephen Von Hatten
> do not trust keith, he made terrorist threats against Scientology
>
> http://www.parishioners.org/anti-religious-extremists/keith-henson/
This one of MANY reasons why I'm deciding to leave. Thank you for the
confirmation, Joe.
"That isn't the half of it. When a website has to be created to
slander and libel those against Scientology, then there's something
that's up. ReligiousFreedomWatch.com is created and maintained by the
Church of Scientology. I've talked with several of the individuals
listed on that website and they don't seem to be dangerous or
destructive. All in all, they are for freedom of speech. You read up
on the site: http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.com/ and you see who the
higher being is. Is this what Scientology must resort to in order to
silence critics? Because it isn't working that well."
-Steve
barbz
If you're using some species of Windows, write up what you want in
notepad. Save it as, say, 'sig.txt'
Then open your newsreader program (I use thunderbird) and under the Edit
menu, go to Preferences. Somewhere in there you'll find a signature file
preference, just type the path and name of sig.txt and it will add it
to every post.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
"Keep fighting for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't forget to
have fun doin' it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous,
ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can
produce."
--Molly Ivins
barbz
Thunderbird Apparently seems to work fine for me.
barbz
> do not trust keith, he made terrorist threats against Scientology
>
> http://www.parishioners.org/anti-religious-extremists/keith-henson/
>
>
barbz
Regarding RFW: they do try to portray us as dangerous in a way that
would resonate in the real world. Criminals, weapons masters,
terrorists, voodoo adepts, these are all false portrayals.
However, make no mistake, to Scientology we are very dangerous, because
we expose their lies, report their fraudulence, and never back down in
the face of intimidation or harassment.
To Scientology, the truth is not only 'out there,' it's dangerous as
hell. That's why they try to suppress it, and its torchbearers.
Out_Of_The_Dark
Martin, I agree. We know what is important to scientology &
Miscavige. MEST, lol!
I suspect that once a person steps up to the plate with a clean
conscience ( like you did) & is willing to bear the brunt of
whatever scientology might do if they speak out, that the
possibilities of what might happen are not as feared as they once
might have been.
:)
Mary
Stephen Von Hatten
for almost 5 years... my freshman year of high school was when I was
introduced to it.
In at June of 2003... out at March 2007. I think that's right... It's
fairly difficult... I'm dyslxeic. hahaha!
mr.ep...@gmail.com
I like that - dyslxeic!! Hovewer I notice you spely "OUT" correctly!
Acyually it dusn't matert if yuo cant spel as lng sa yu do it!!
Did you know Richard Branson - of Virgin fame is - dyslexic? What's
in a name? Nothing.
Regards
Martin
navy.intern...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey Stephen! I am glad you made your decision! Welcome back in the
world of the free! ;-)
mr.ep...@gmail.com
> I suspect that once a person steps up to the plate with a clean
> conscience ( like you did) & is willing to bear the brunt of
> whatever scientology might do if they speak out, that the
> possibilities of what might happen are not as feared as they once
> might have been.
>
> :)
>
>
Actually Mary they did their worst to me 25 years ago. Phone calls to
tax authority, most of my staff left overnight - I had a company in
East Grinstead, tried to get Robin Scott to incriminate me, 2
depositions, 1 ex staff member (mine) tried to sue me for a trumped up
reason and many other things I can't even remember after all these
years. Oh yes - PI's following us around. However others , like Jon
Atack, got it far worse than I.
Now they could only ever get to me through my family and friends.
However NZ has a very small scientology presence and not where I
live. However I have had a few interesting phone calls after the
show!
People sometimes worry about the content of their PC folders being
exposed. However scientology lies so readily that no would ever know
if it were true or not. Besides what would the press say now if it
came out that scientology discloses stuff from confessionals?
No reason to worry too much these days - the pit bull is now a
kitten. The odd scratch here and there but no real bite.
regards
Martin
Ed
Keith Henson wrote:
[snip to:]
>
> Stephen, there are some major advances in treating MS. I know because
> a good friend has it and stays up on all the treatments. Email me if
> you want and I will put you in contact with her.
>
> Keith Henson
>
> hkhenson(at)rogers(dot)com
I recommend anyone with an interest in MS check out Ashton
Embry's explanation and theory, in direct-ms.org and the 40K longer
version of it which is there at www.direct-ms.org/bestbet.html. He
researched it when his son was diagnosed with it. His "evaluation" (in
Scn terms) is a classic great example of looking at data and seeing
the pattern. Epidemiology was the key, as it proved that MS suddenly
arose in various societies that had rapid change to a "western" diet,
which includes lots of several foods that many people get allergic
reactions to, most commonly wheat, dairy, yeast, eggs, and one other
that I forget. The MS is a *massive* immune reaction. The 40k file
describes the exact immune mechanisms. Embry's son recovered after
they figured out the allergy and removed it from the diet. And of
course the vested interests want nothing to do with any of this.
Ed
Stephen Von Hatten
> Keith Henson wrote:
>
> [snip to:]
>
>
>
> > Stephen, there are some major advances in treating MS. I know because
> > a good friend has it and stays up on all the treatments. Email me if
> > you want and I will put you in contact with her.
>
> > Keith Henson
>
> > hkhenson(at)rogers(dot)com
>
> I recommend anyone with an interest in MS check out Ashton
> Embry's explanation and theory, in direct-ms.org and the 40K longer
> researched it when his son was diagnosed with it. His "evaluation" (in
> Scn terms) is a classic great example of looking at data and seeing
> the pattern. Epidemiology was the key, as it proved that MS suddenly
> arose in various societies that had rapid change to a "western" diet,
> which includes lots of several foods that many people get allergic
> reactions to, most commonly wheat, dairy, yeast, eggs, and one other
> that I forget. The MS is a *massive* immune reaction. The 40k file
> describes the exact immune mechanisms. Embry's son recovered after
> they figured out the allergy and removed it from the diet. And of
> course the vested interests want nothing to do with any of this.
>
> Ed
Thank you so much Ed. This information is already being put to good
use.
-Steve
Zinj
64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>, mr.ep...@gmail.com says...
I'd hesitate to call them 'toothless'. The 'will' (or criminal
intent) is still in place. The limiting 'scruples' are *not*.
The cash to mount *any* sort of attack, legal or illegal up to
and including murder is still there. The 'personnel', whether
zealous Scientologists or 'hired' thugs is still available.
So, the teeth are still there and grinding in frustration.
Because, there *is* a limiting factor; the light of day.
Scientology is terrified of *being caught*, because it *knows*
that the 'next' incident of 'letting itself go' may be the last.
But, dark witness-less corners are not places to be testing the
'restraint' :)
barbz
Unless the keas are WORKING for Scientology...hmmm...
mr.ep...@gmail.com
>
> I'd hesitate to call them 'toothless'. The 'will' (or criminal
> intent) is still in place. The limiting 'scruples' are *not*.
> The cash to mount *any* sort of attack, legal or illegal up to
> and including murder is still there. The 'personnel', whether
> zealous Scientologists or 'hired' thugs is still available.
>
> So, the teeth are still there and grinding in frustration.
>
> Because, there *is* a limiting factor; the light of day.
>
> Scientology is terrified of *being caught*, because it *knows*
> that the 'next' incident of 'letting itself go' may be the last.
>
> But, dark witness-less corners are not places to be testing the
> 'restraint' :)
>
> Zinj
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually I totally agree with everything you say. The "will" is still
there and I can imagine the amount of frustration there must be at
head office.
The courts and the internet and the press are now modifying factors -
as you say "the light of day". However the really dirty tricks have
always seemed to be close to head office. I'm not saying "things"
haven't happened at the extremities but nothing like the amount and
severity as in California and Florida.
For a start the legal system in most countries is different to that in
the USA. The reports I read of the "US Justice System" frighten the
hell out of me!! No - in the UK and NZ it is almost unheard of that
police or judges are "got" at. Even Aust has a federal system but I
have never heard of the type of corruption I see in the US.
If I were to picket with you in California or Florida I would indeed
take precautions!!! The worst "real" thing that happened to me was
Warren McShane punching me in the back in full view of the UK police.
As Jon A reminded me recently - a little English policewoman gave him
a right fucking telling off in front of everyone!!! Oh the joy of it!
Even the PI's they hired in the UK were friendly. We all had a chat
with them as they took their photos - in fact we posed! And they let
us take photos of them. Not a covert op.
I say as long as the spotlight is kept on them the virus will slowly
die. It's got to the point where everything that "happens" is blamed
on them. They are ridiculed and mocked in every corner of the known
universe. It comes at them from so many sources that they don't know
what to counter first. At the moment Naraconon is in the limelight -
quite correctly. They are running so hard but they are still going
backwards.
This is all down to you lot in the US - thanks guys! - and gals! and
"others"!
As you say - the teeth are still there but there are so many things to
bite they don't know where to start. And they have a strong leash on
them - the glare of publicity.
Keep it up please.
regards
Martin
mr.ep...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Keas are intelligent wise animals, - the saying is "birds of a
feather, flock together". They would never "fly" with scientologists
- goodness how demeaning!
regards
Martin
Magoo
"Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172977589....@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
So where are you at? Did you make a decision?
Take your time, read, study, listen to www.xenutv.com
and talk to many others who have been in your shoes.
It's a **huge** leap at the time, for me it felt like I was
leaping off of a cliff about 10,000 feet high, and at the bottom was a tiny
sign that read:
"YOU *MIGHT* MAKE IT IF YOU LEAP"
I lept, and made it just fine. I realized later that was all built into my
head, by your wonderful "Church". The truth is, it isn't really a church, or
they wouldn't have to stop your freedoms, would they? They wouldn't be
spreading slime and hatred about their x-members such as myself, who is IN
WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY, by the way.
They **** Have*** to cut people off from we who say, "read both sides"
because they KNOW, ***IF*** people do read
BOTH sides, they're in deep S***.
Do you honestly want to be a part of such a group? Remember, they're only
your "Friends" as long as you're jumping through their hoops, their way.
Once I left, I found out leaving is more like walking across the line in a
street, that's IT.
Now I have a sign in my home that reads:
"LEAP and the NET will APPEAR"
And it has, every single time :)
My best,
Tory/Magoo~~
>
Skipper
Stephen Von Hatten <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
> If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
Consider it your personal jail sentence for doing the stupid thing of
joining the cult - now you can go back to a real life and be away from
the insanity. Forget the six years and look forward to sanity the rest
of your life.
>
> There are 6 different requirements for being declared an SP:
>
> "1. PUBLIC DISAVOWAL OF SCIENTOLOGY OR SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING
> WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS."
>
> I can see both halves. Some say that this is a cult mentality, others
> say it's because they want to keep their wins.
>
> "2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
> REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
> "SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
>
> This is certainly understandable.
>
> "3. CALCULATED EFFORTS TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF
> PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
>
> I can also understand this. Every church should have a right to
> function at its own expense.
>
> "4. ACTS CALCULATED TO MISUSE, INVALIDATE OR ALTER-IS LEGALLY OR IN
> ANY OTHER WAY THE TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS OF DIANETICS AND
> SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> Completely understandable.
>
> "5. FAILURE TO HANDLE OR DISAVOW AND DISCONNECT FROM A PERSON
> DEMONSTRABLY GUILTY OF SUPPRESSIVE ACTS."
>
> Again... half seeing this here.
>
> "6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> So once you're in, you're in for life??? God no! Don't let this be
> true. Somebody want to explain this to me? Please tell me I didn't
> throw away 6 precious years only to find out that I've been supporting
> a cult or a group of people with cultic tendencies.
>
> We need freedom. I should be able to go to other churches that aren't
> Scientology without getting declared an SP. I can't allow any group to
> have that much control over me. God, please!
barbz
> In article <1172909052.3...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>,
> Stephen Von Hatten <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The lightbulb just went off.
>>
>> If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
>> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
>> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
>
> Consider it your personal jail sentence for doing the stupid thing of
> joining the cult - now you can go back to a real life and be away from
> the insanity. Forget the six years and look forward to sanity the rest
> of your life.
Unless you run into a crazy bag lady in downtown SLC, that is...a little
insanity does manage to slip through, once in a while.
Out_Of_The_Dark
wrote:
Your parents let you join Scientology when you were 14 or 15 yrs
old??!!
Barbara Schwarz
wrote:
> "Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1172912082....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Mar 3, 12:44 am, joekimper...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> either you are a fool or a liar. why this sudden change of heart if
> >> Scientology has helped you.
>
> >> On Mar 3, 12:27 am, "Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen.vonhat...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > On Mar 3, 12:08 am, joekimper...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> > > yes if you leave you are no better than a traitor to me why would you
> >> > > want to leave Scientology anyway?
>
> >> > Because I need something that is spiritually, socially, and mentally
> >> > stimulating. No wonder I haven't been really satisfied with it. It
> >> > completely lacks mental stimulation. God! How could I have not seen
> >> > this 2 or 3 years earlier?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > know? E-mail me and maybe I'll explain it to you a little more in
> > depth... maybe...
>
> > To be blunt, Scientology hasn't been spiritually stimulating for quite
> > some time, nor mentally. Why do you think I've been posting here? I
> > haven't been flaming any of the critics. I've been listening to their
> > side. It tookBarbaraSchwarzto post an SP document to realize that
> > the Church does not encourage freedom of religion for their own
> > Scientologists unless it's only for Scientology.
>
> Right,
My personal experience with Claire Swazey is that she is indeed
suppressive an cheap. Whoever declared her within the C of S did the
right thing.
Claire is no Scientologist. She wants other people to fall for it. She
is supressive and dishonest and forged even the founder of
Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard in a perverted posting. She twisted. Who
believes her anything is an idiot.
Exposing p$ychiatric agents and trolls:
If you are intelligent and think for yourself, they defame, libel and
abuse you as being mentally ill. If you are not intelligent and don't
think for yourself but adopt their mentally retarded, narrow, false,
insecure and hate filled opinions, they call you sane. - Thanks, I
rather be my own thinking person. -- Barbara Schwarz
Check these guys out:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/
And by the way: Wikipedia (Wikipiggi), AHBL and the anti-freespeech
spam bot NOCEM Babblestop lie, harass and defame.
Stephen Von Hatten
wrote:
Yes they did. I mostly bought books though. My junior and senior year
of high school was when I really started getting the processing and
stuff. My dad wasn't too excited, but my step-mom was one of those
that just sits back and lets you make your own mistakes. She didn't
necessarily approve, but she didn't try to stop me. My mom had already
tried that, and it didn't work out too well.
Zinj
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, stephen....@gmail.com
says...
This interests me Steve. I'd be surprised if there's much 'Raw
Meat' recruitment still going on, and, I suspect that most
Scientologists from your age group are 2nd Gen types.
You're actually the first credible account of a 'new' recruit
I've heard of, although, I'm sure there are others.
We don't have much reporting from that element though, so, while
you really don't know much about Scientology, despite 6 years
in, your own story can be very important.
I think we'd all appreciate it if you could lay it out for us.
barbz
Did you hide your broccoli in your pockets too?
Stephen Von Hatten
Yeah, sorry about that. It was nearly 5 years. I did my math wrong. I
took a study course too. hahaha!
I was originally introduced to Scientology in high school. My mom and
I were having a really hard time communicating. I think you can guess
at what my good friend Danny suggested for me and my mom.
My first book that dealt with Scientology was an OLD What is
Scientology book... the one with the chocolate shell with the "new-
born" Earth coming out of it. hahaha! I ended up giving that to
someone in the Unitarian Universalist Church in Utah, which my step-
mom is a member of. Unitarian Universalists accept everyone so she was
all to happy for my "spiritual" journey... not really into
Scientology... but she was happy I was pursuing my interests
wholeheartedly.
I was raised in a Protestant mainstream denomination and my mom was
attimate about me and my brother being Christian. I wanted to look for
myself before I made my decision.
I tried a little Scientology reading, but she claimed it was a cult.
The reason she gave for it being a cult was because it denied the
diety of Jesus... a completely different definition than what you
folks are defining as a "cult." I dismissed it as short-sighted and
closed-minded; which I still consider it to be short-sighted. Just
because it teaches different principles doesn't make it a cult. This
was the beginning of my "shutdown" mentally, I think. It wasn't just
Scientology... you called anything a cult and I would dismiss your
claims as short-sighted. I just happened to be a Scientologist as
well.
To keep it short, my mom (living in California at the time) and I
ended up not getting along and my dad was coming back to the states,
so I joined them in Utah. I left school a term earlier and was 15 at
the time. I'd always considered myself a Scientologist while in Utah,
I still searched here and there and that got me in a little trouble
here and there. I delved somewhat in the LDS Church and the Kingston
group (also known as the 'Latter-day Church of Christ'). The latter
was facinating. I also took an interest in Judaism, Christian
Orthodox, Catholicism, the Christian Science church (First Church of
Christ, Scientist of Ogden, Utah), the Unity movement, Messianicism,
and the UU Church in Ogden. I was pretty much the representation of
Scientology in Ogden, Utah... although I wasn't officially, but I
considered myself a part of the inter-faith religious groups which I
attended their functions whenever I had a chance.
Something I also found really interesting was that there were never a
lot of Scientologists. The only Scientologists I knew were in Salt
Lake City or further south. Something just clicked... if Scientology
is really the "fastest growing religion" why is it that I didn't go to
school with any? Hmmm... makes me wonder... a lie? Or am I just
confused?
Although I was young, I was very interested in learning all sides of
religion. My interests later led me to William James, Charles Darwin,
Reformed Theology, Apostolic United Brethren (AUB), and a bunch of
other religious and not so religious philosophies and philosophers.
Technically, I don't think I really was "recruited..." I think I sorta
recruited myself in a way. I had to jump on the bandwagon. Nobody
really pushed me. Then reading Freedom Mag is partially
brainwashing... I've read some interesting articles that now I can't
just make sense of why I ever even believed them. I was always afraid
whenever I was done reading about them. Then I go on the Scientology
website and I'd feel better about it because I felt like something
could be done. So yeah... that's just a bit more background.
Stephen Von Hatten
I forgot to mention... maybe this isn't mainstream Christianity, but
have any of you ever heard of Kent Hovind? I was raised in that
Christianity. I've had people tell me that that isn't Christianity, or
at least mainstream. As a child (14 and under) I learned that America
wasn't a democracy but a communist government plotting to take over
the world with the New World Order and Karl Marx was an atheist. Is
that mainstream Christianity?
Hephaestus
Aw, damn you're good, I almost fell for it. I need to go to bed
earlier.
Zinj
@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, stephen....@gmail.com
says...
<snipped entirely :) go back and read it yourselves)>
Thanks.
Don't worry about the small shit; like getting 5 and 6 off.
Not a biggy.
I really *am* interested in how you got in, which you're
describing well, because I think that's a rare entrance.
Maybe you can disabuse me?
You sound like you really are interested in spirituality in a
general sense, and I'd like to reinforce that.
I think it's a good thing to be doing, even if it sometimes
turns out to be a trap.
Work on your ability to escape traps and you'll be OK.
You're doing fine so far.
But, we would like to hear more. I may sound creepy, but, most
of us who have been involved with Scientology, whether as
victims or as opponents have relatively comprehensible reasons
to delve. You, on the other hand, have just lost 5 years to a
cult. If you use it right, it can become a positive element of
your further life.
Somebody, I forget who, suggested that you go back to school.
I can only agree with that. The best way to learn about life is
to fill yourself with as much of it as you can get, and *then*
see what you end up with.
Scool is good for that. Scientology is about *controlling* what
comes in. Filtering the 'comm'
You don't need it.
Nor do you need to become a Scientology Critic.
First things first; get your life in order and if you have extra
time, *then* involve yourself in social issues.
Learn learn learn and have fun :)
Your experiences can be valuable in helping others, but, the
most important thing for *you* right now is re-integrating with
reality.
Hephaestus
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think you're joking, but if you are, it's being done well. In any
case, no, it isn't.
Stephen Von Hatten
I'm way ahead of you on the school thing. I took a semester for
courses but I've since began college.
As for the other stuff.. posting and everything... I'm unsure as to
what I should post. I will say that a big reason I was interested in
Scientology was because I've got HFA with Asperger's Syndrome, and I
wanted to be "normal." Although, that's a term that I'm unsure has
much meaning in society anymore. I wanted to have lots of friends and
be popular. That may sound childish, but that's what my end goal was.
That's one of the reasons I spent so much $$$... I wanted to fit in.
And I really wanted to be friends with Barry and Cyndy at the Org in
SLC. They were really cool to talk to and they laughed at my jokes.
Needless to say, Scientology never got me there, but I am content with
the friends I do have. Besides, I noticed something about people with
a lot of friends who hang out with 1-2 dozen at a time... they mostly
BS. I've never been much of a BSer. Better to have a couple of close
friends that you can tell everything to than have a million where you
couldn't tell them anything.
That's why when Scientology was nudging me to disconnect with my 2
best friends, I tried leaving them. That was the 1st time around,
though.
d
news:qqFGh.54$gH6...@newsfe04.lga...
It's like in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: "Only in a leap from the
lion's head will he prove his worth" :)
Out_Of_The_Dark
It's so wonderful to read that ex-members have survived the arrows
scientology slung their way. I know there are many out there but less
who continue to step out after the fact.
Thanks for replying . It's very encouraging.
Mary
Out_Of_The_Dark
Dear Scientologist - an open letter to all members of Scientology
www.lermanet.com/scientology/dear-scientologist.htm
Boudewijn van Ingen
Heh. This reminds me of the way I started posting here. I felt obliged
to use this newsgroup in 'read-only' mode for nearly a year, before I
dared commenting on something. And even then, I felt rather timid,
because I thought I knew so little.
That was twelve years ago. And studying the $cientology scam hasn't
make me feel I wasted my time. ;-)
>Your experiences can be valuable in helping others, but, the
>most important thing for *you* right now is re-integrating with
>reality.
>
>Zinj
--
Groeten,
Boudewijn.
John
Just to give you a slightly different perspective...
"Stephen Von Hatten" <stephen....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172909052.3...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> The lightbulb just went off.
>
> If I publicly leave Scientology I'm going to be declared a supressive
> person. I can't live with that. I can't believe that I've (what
> appears to be) wasted... nearly 6 YEARS of my life!
>
> There are 6 different requirements for being declared an SP:
>
> "1. PUBLIC DISAVOWAL OF SCIENTOLOGY OR SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING
> WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS."
>
> I can see both halves. Some say that this is a cult mentality, others
> say it's because they want to keep their wins.
What is really meant by public disavowal?
>
> "2. ENGAGING IN MALICIOUS RUMORMONGERING TO DESTROY THE AUTHORITY OR
> REPUTE OF HIGHER OFFICERS OR THE LEADING NAMES OF SCIENTOLOGY OR TO
> "SAFEGUARD" A POSITION."
>
> This is certainly understandable.
Unfortunately, this "malicious rumormongering" includes "telling the truth".
>
> "3. CALCULATED EFFORTS TO DISRUPT CHURCH SERVICES OR THE FLOW OF
> PUBLIC UP THE BRIDGE THROUGH THE CHURCHES."
>
> I can also understand this. Every church should have a right to
> function at its own expense.
This reads like Stalinist Crimes against Communism. It's a sign of the CoS'
paranoia that they believe they must stay Ever Vigilant against attacks from
within and without. "Us vs The World" is a very common cultic perspective.
>
> "4. ACTS CALCULATED TO MISUSE, INVALIDATE OR ALTER-IS LEGALLY OR IN
> ANY OTHER WAY THE TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS OF DIANETICS AND
> SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> Completely understandable.
Quite apart from demonstrating CoS' obsession with trademarks... almost like
it was a corporation.
>
> "5. FAILURE TO HANDLE OR DISAVOW AND DISCONNECT FROM A PERSON
> DEMONSTRABLY GUILTY OF SUPPRESSIVE ACTS."
>
> Again... half seeing this here.
>
> "6. IT IS A HIGH CRIME TO PUBLICLY DEPART SCIENTOLOGY."
>
> So once you're in, you're in for life??? God no! Don't let this be
> true. Somebody want to explain this to me? Please tell me I didn't
> throw away 6 precious years only to find out that I've been supporting
> a cult or a group of people with cultic tendencies.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.