Is Scientology a scam ?
BBICON
Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
scam label.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Scientology a Scam?
The claim that Scientology is a scam, dressed up as a religion, and
that cult founders are con men exploiting brainwashed victims for
personal wealth and power is often made by critics. In fact, it's a
very common myth which anti-cultists launch at a great variety of
groups.
Why is this a myth? Because a scam would mean that leaders are
*knowingly* exploiting others, that they know perfectly well that
their doctrine is pure fantasy but somehow manage to hypnotize
followers into accepting it. In other words, that they don't believe
their own doctrine themselves. This, in my opinion, and that of many
scholars who have studied cults, is false.
If leaders really believed their own doctrine, would it still be a
scam? Of course not. At the worst, it would qualify as a form of
illusion.
If one thus assume that leaders are themselves as convinced about their
own doctrine as any dedicated member (and this is what I witnessed in
the cult myself), then he will view the claim that the group is a scam
as a myth. Not just a myth, in fact, but a derogatory, false, and
dangerous accusation.
The scam myth works together with the mind-control myth in promoting
ostracism against unpopular groups and bring authorities to over-react.
The FBI, who made the mistake to follow anti-cult advises in the Waco
tragedy, now seems to realize this important aspect. In their Law
Enforcement Bulletin of September 2000, they describe this particular
myth and its dangers:
NRMs often are stereotyped as con games run by opportunistic leaders.
Undoubtedly, some founders establish NRMs to intentionally bilk
followers out of money or to unilaterally promote their own interests.
More frequently, though, NRM leaders genuinely believe in their
teachings, however outlandish or fantastic these seem. Such leaders or
prophets will undergo great sacrifices-up to and including death-for
the sake of their message, and it is dangerous for law enforcement
officers to approach such leaders as if they were disingenuous con
artists.
Certain practices sometimes are mistaken for indicators that leaders
are insincere. For example, the fact that NRM leaders enjoy benefits or
living comforts that their followers do not simply may reflect the
honor that the groups attach to the leaders' positions. Similarly,
groups' requirement that members turn over their assets to the
movements may be prompted by a genuine attempt to promote an ascetic
lifestyle among the members. Law enforcement officers should be very
hesitant to assume that the leaders of NRMs are not sincere.
If officers suspect that NRM officials have improper motives, they
should examine the leaders' backgrounds. Sociopaths or con artists
generally will not invest years trying to spread their messages and
form groups without a guaranteed payoff. Officers also should remember
that NRM leaders and followers may have many complex motivations for
their behavior, not all of which are internally consistent. NRM leaders
may manipulate others and, yet, still hold sincere religious beliefs.
Thus, even if leaders display signs of sociopathic or criminal
behavior, officers should not assume that these individuals are
insincere about their religious beliefs.
In the absence of contrary evidence, officers should assume that NRM
leaders are true to their spiritual convictions.
The Scientology case
In the case of Scientology, in addition of the usual "it's all crap"
and "mind-control" allegations, two of the main arguments being made by
critics to convince others (and themselves) that Scientology is a scam,
are as follows:
The core doctrine is being held secret until the member is sufficiently
brainwashed to accept it and is ready to pay the big bucks for it.
Members are not being told what the whole path will cost them.
There are, however, several myths and misconceptions involved in these
allegations:
1. The secret levels are NOT the core belief of Scientology. It's
merely one of many incidents one will find on his "time track", albeit
a powerful one and one which is supposed to still influences people
thought their bundled together BTs. The core belief of Scientology is
that one is a spiritual being, and that through the Scientology process
referred to as "auditing", can free himself of "engrams" and "implants"
(among which the Xenu incident) and thus recover their native spiritual
abilities. It was their belief long *before* the BTs episode even
entered the scene, and it is still the belief of the majority of
Scientologists since they don't even know about Xenu and BTs, yet call
what they do "Scientology". It is thus deceptive to claim that the core
belief of Scientology is hidden until one reaches the OT levels. For
more information on that issue, check the Xenu page.
2. The NATURE of the belief isn't even hidden. The promotional material
clearly indicates that it is a galactic incident that happened 75
billion years ago. To claim that Scientology presents one facet on the
outside and another on the inside is false. Space opera fiction
references in Scientology abound in Scientology literature, including
in magazines that are sent out on a large scale to outsiders. One of
the most quoted book, History of Man, is widely available and contains
loads of wild science-fiction stories (as do many other books and
articles).
3. The costs of courses and auditing aren't hidden either. In fact, a
list of prices and items often arrives together with promotional
material, and is very widely available. Apart for the fact that the
total price quoted by critics is an high estimate (the price depends on
the length of each action and a much cheaper route is available through
training and co-auditing), it is very easy for anyone to make an
estimate of the magnitude it will cost him would he want to make the
whole road. The price isn't in a bulk, and the person is free to stop
at any stage were he to become disillusioned in Scientology and its
technique. It is their choice to continue or not, and many continue
simply because they make case gains and are happy with the results.
4. Keeping something secret is not necessarily part of a scam, and is
being done by quite a few other religions. The Mormons do it, the
Kabalistic Jews do it, to name just two - not to speak of countless
esoteric movements such as the Free Masons and others. The point is,
again, that members and leaders alike *really* believe it can be
dangerous to read about the Xenu episode or run the related processes
before one is spiritually advanced enough to confront the trauma this
supposed accident is supposed to carry. Again, because of their genuine
believe, it hardly qualifies as a scam. At the worst, merely a very
silly belief.
As an ex-member, I don't believe in Scientology techniques. While I do
think it can have positive effects, I view the spiritual bragging and
exploitation it is marketed with as a form of illusion in which people
buy because they need to believe, accept an outside authority, are
anxious about their eternal future, and are in need of an higher
purpose to lighten their way. However, I do NOT consider it a scam
because, IMO, the strength with which the leader is able to pass his
own visions and delusions to his followers is potent precisely because
he genuinely shares these with them.
The scam myth is responsible for much unnecessary distress from cult
members' relatives and for unwarranted phobias from the public and
authorities. It also comes in the way of a fair understanding of the
real phenomena that underlies the issue and is responsible for the fact
that ex-members who have fallen prey of this other form of cultic
belief are unable to leave the cult behind and move on. In a
self-perpetrating circle, they will continuously reinforce their new
us/them, black and white, belief to justify themselves, and will
thereby keep the fuel of endless resentment alive.
nospam...@myway.com
Good for posting some impartial news.
Roger Larsson
BBICON skrev:
L. Ron Hubbard never pops up from a box saying to his victims "SMILE!
You're in scientology" so they goes on believing his lies have an
existence in the reality.
If Hubbard had learned himself how to end cycles from the professionals
in Candid Camera he could have avoided much hate, war and stupidity in
the world.
Roger Larsson
Akhenaten
On Jan 22, 4:32 pm, "BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> taken fromhttp://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>
> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Is Scientology a Scam? <snip yet another rambling copy-and-paste full of drivel>
Yes.
antisectes
> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htmcretinized pmorons don't
> say anything really truthful, scam cultist.
r
RolandRB
1) You are told that Scientology is a way of improving people's lives
by making the able more able.
2) You are told that Scientology is not a religion but rather "an
applied religious philosophy".
3) You are told about a state of Clear whereby a person has perfect
recall, immunity from accidents and flu, a longer life and the ability
to solve chess problems in a fraction of the time and that you can
reach this state by inexpensive Dianetics auditing.
4) You pay for the auditing and after a few hours of it it is stopped
because you don't seem to be getting enough benefit from it.
5) You are told you need Scientology auditing rather than Dianetics
auditing which is 100 times more effective. Trouble is, it cost 20
times the price. You can't afford it so you are persuaded to learn to
be a Scientology auditor yourself where you can co-audit and therefore
do it cheaper.
6) So you are sold the courses and the e-meter and you hope to go clear
at half the price. But you so much want to have those powers as a Clear
tat you press on.
7) Two years later and you are getting nowhere. You are frustrated. The
auditing your twin gave you doesn't work. What you need now is "repair
auditing" done at the cost you were trying to avoid.
8) You get the repair auditing and you are now back on course. Several
months later you are gettting nowhere.
9) Your only way to make any progress at all is to go for the full
priced auditing you were trying to avoid. You are told that the
"professional" auditors will give you more benefits in an hour than you
have ever got in your life from doing Scientology.
10) You get "professional" auditing. You are pleased to have a chance
to progress at last. A few weeks later you realize you are getting
nowhere. But you want to be a "Clear" so you shut up and get on with
it.
11) You have the elusive Clear cognition that basically says that a
person realises that they are mocking up their own reactive mind. You
go to "attest".
12) You attest but wonder why you haven't got immunity from colds and
flu, perfect recall etc. Just that you are "mocking up your own
reactive mind less". The goal you aimed for is not there. You express
your concern but are told that all those goals and so much more are
there on the OT levels.
13) Having gone Clear and hoping to have greater abilities, you are now
told that "you are at risk and must rapidly move up to OT III". So
having gone Clear and paid money for Dianetics auditing, then training,
then repair auditing and then having paid for the too expensive
"professional auditing" you tried to avoid in the first place you reach
the stage after paying more money where you have no extra abilities --
worse still, you are at risk.
14) You have learnt by now that Scientology IS a religion and anyone
who says otherwise is an SP and an enemy of the Church and mankind. You
hand over money to help them in their legal battles to keep Scientology
running as a religion even though you were told it was not a religion
but rather "an applied religious philosophy" yourself when yu asked.
15) You do OT III and the self-help group you thought you joined now
takes on a new turn. You learn that you are full of the souls of dead
space aliens named "body thetans" and it is they who are holding you
back. You have to telepathically audit these dead space aliens to make
them go away and then you will get super-powers like being able to
leave your body at will and fly around the universe.
16) You do the expensive OT III and you attest to being free of body
thetans. You wonder why you can't "exteriorize" or fly around the
universe.
17) You are now told that you are still full of body thetans but the
nearly dead or unconscious ones that didn't respond to OT III. You now
have to do the OT IV Drug Rundown to take vitemins to wake up these
body thetans so they can be audited.
18) Now come OT V audited NOTs. This is *really* expensive at double
the cost per hour of the "professional auditing" you were trying to
avoid when you got in and wanted to become Clear. And you are auditied
on this for many many hours. It seems like the richer you are, the more
body thetans you have, so all your money goes away and you go deep into
debt.
19) After OT V you at last get onto OT VI. Guess what? More body
thetans need to be handled but you can "solo audit" them away.
20) So you finally finish OT VI. Guess what? More body thetans need to
be handled on OT VII. This is going to take many years and all the
money you could ever get from anywhere. On top of this a "six month sec
check" has to be performed that you have to pay for.
21) Few people finish OT VII but of they do they get onto OT VIII. The
final blinding "cognition" of this level is you realise "now I know who
I am not and am interested in finding out who I am" when you realise
that all your supposed memories were not real but belonged to the body
thetans you got rid of. And as for the OT powers, there are none
because you are a "baby OT" now. No immunity from colds and flu and
perfect recall that you were told about when you came through the door.
You have parted with perhaps $350,000 for "now I know who I am not and
am interested in finding out who I am".
Is it a scam? I'll let the reader decide.
Zinj
@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bbi...@hotmail.com says...
> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>
>
> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.
Your definition of a scam is flawed.
Otherwise a pyramid scheme, chain letter, amway or anything
anyone believed in at any link on the chain would not be a
'scam'.
The fraud can be present at *any* link on the chain, with all
the other links being 'well intentioned'.
Scientology presents a 'special' problem, since it's literally
training in 'believing' any damn thing you want, regardless of
actual and/or obvious fact. 'True for you' is a recipe for
delusion.
The Scientology scammer (Ron, for example, or Davey) can be
perfectly aware of his fraud, but, at the same time, believe in
it utterly.
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
Eldon
I second that, but I could add a few words: An insidious one....
Oh, three more: to be avoided....
Oh, three more: ... at all cost.
R. Hill
That's a keeper :-)
Would it be wrong to add that at every step they are told that...
"... applying 'Keeping Scientology Working' is key to your progress";
"... psychiatrists are *evil*" (the wording depends on the current
level), "don't listen to what they have to say";
"... suppressive persons impede your progress, don't listen to what
they have to say";
"... applying 'Keeping Scientology Working' is key to your progress".
Ray.
RolandRB
It is, isn't it. Anyone want to web it? Feel free. Feel free to correct
and typos if you do.
> Would it be wrong to add that at every step they are told that...
>
> "... applying 'Keeping Scientology Working' is key to your progress";
> "... psychiatrists are *evil*" (the wording depends on the current
> level), "don't listen to what they have to say";
> "... suppressive persons impede your progress, don't listen to what
> they have to say";
> "... applying 'Keeping Scientology Working' is key to your progress".
>
> Ray.
I thought it had just the right amount of content to get the message
across.
R. Hill
http://www.xenu-directory.net/opinions/rashleighberry20070122.html.html
I added it to the "What is Scientology?" links on the front page.
Ray.
RolandRB
Thanks for that. A few typos to correct.
5) change highlighted "cost" to "costs".
6) Change "clear" to "Clear" and "tat" to "that".
18) Change "Now come" to "Now comes".
21) Change "but of they do" to "but if they do".
Let it not be said that we SPs are not able to duplicate.
Roland
Zinj
11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com>, rolan...@hotmail.com says...
<snip>
> Thanks for that. A few typos to correct.
>
> 5) change highlighted "cost" to "costs".
>
> 6) Change "clear" to "Clear" and "tat" to "that".
>
> 18) Change "Now come" to "Now comes".
>
> 21) Change "but of they do" to "but if they do".
>
>
> Let it not be said that we SPs are not able to duplicate.
>
> Roland
We can not only 'duplicate'; we can *improve*.
That's a super power denied Hubbard's victims.
RolandRB
All fixed now. I see. Splendid!
Eldon
Isn't it inspirational how well Scientology critics cooperate and
forward the common cause?
I'd say so, but I'm not so sure about Roland, just as a matter of
general principle, you see. Or maybe you don't. Well, OK... to be
specific, he'd be more sensible if only he had an aga cooker instead of
a Rival Crockpot. That's what would fix him, that's the way they are,
and I humbly submit that he can't help it anyway because he's -- well,
you know.....
RolandRB
I've got a German Apexa now which can piss on yer Yankee Rival
Crock-Pots!!
This is a Panzer heavy duty beast of a thing that your inferior Yankee
products would shatter to if allowed near them.
Eldon
Oh, I am so glad to know that your OT cooking abilities have been
enhanced through karut technology (even if it's Swiss).
I may still think you long for an aga, but that might just be a body
thetan telling me so, or you so, and perhaps we'll never know anyway...
;-)
Life is complex as they say... but there is no longer much question
that decent people in various corners of the planet, however
disparate, wish to destroy Scientology -- Is there?
I don't think so. I sure do.
John
"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.201ea009...@news2.lightlink.com...
> In article <1169443926.081412.309140
> @l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bbi...@hotmail.com says...
>> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>>
>>
>> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
>> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
>> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
>> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
>> scam label.
>
> Your definition of a scam is flawed.
>
> Otherwise a pyramid scheme, chain letter, amway or anything
> anyone believed in at any link on the chain would not be a
> 'scam'.
>
> The fraud can be present at *any* link on the chain, with all
> the other links being 'well intentioned'.
>
> Scientology presents a 'special' problem, since it's literally
> training in 'believing' any damn thing you want, regardless of
> actual and/or obvious fact. 'True for you' is a recipe for
> delusion.
And so few Scientologists choose to believe they can, for example, walk in
front of a speeding car without injury.
It's hard to pick the beliefs that make you feel superior without actually
having to do anything superior.
BBICON
I cut and copied it from a site
It got everyone in a tizzy, trying to debate it and argue what is
stated
Boy it is not hard at all to push your buttons
All of you should be ashamed
-Bruce
Zinj
@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, bbi...@hotmail.com says...
?
So, you didn't 'write' it, but, you *did* think it important
enough to 'forward' it to us.
Didn't you agree with it? If not; why did you bother posting
it?
If you disagree with it, why didn't you mention which points you
'disagree' with?
If, in your wanderings through the dank and dismal streets
leading to the 'Bridge' you run across ofal and rubbish and bags
of excrement, do you carry them to the nearest doorstep and
present them for purvue?
Do you light the bag first? :)
And excuse yourself by saying 'I didn't do it!'
John
"BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169507473.6...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Ashamed? You would have to accept the scientology worldview to be ashamed.
As far as I can tell, your thinking is this :
You post about scientology.
Others comment on your post.
You interpret the others' comments as "reactive" and sign of an "unflat
button". These are Bad Things in scientology.
Consider: your interpretation of other peoples' motivations may not be
correct.
It's almost like this is a forum for discussing scientology or something.
Zinj
jo...@junk.com says...
No doubt he'll next post various neo-nazi and otherwise racist
screed and, if anyone comments, point out how reactive we are,
and, that *he* didn't 'write it' :)
Come to think of it, the 'Church' of Scientology has been doing
exactly that for better than 10 years.
barbz
No wonder Scientology hates the internet! Bwahahahaha!
--
--
Spidergraham
Chaplain, ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
Zinj
zinj...@yahoo.com says...
Let me add a corollary:
'Don't Blame The Messenger' makes sense if you *hired* the
messenger to bring you something.
When it's the punk kid who leaves a bag of flaming shit on your
doorstep, the *correct* person to blame is the 'messenger'.
Should we check the DNA and track down the 'Source'?
Well; if the 'Source' is a rabid UFO Cult masquerading as a
'Church' of Scientology, which not only 'Sourced' the excrement
but *paid* the 'messenger' to leave it on the stoop...
Well, yes; blame the messenger *and* the 'Source'
realpch
Concise and well put. Of course, you Roland, are a disaffected SP, so
who's going to listen to you, you apostate!
; )
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
RolandRB
I would really respect Scientology and Scientologists if they could do
that. I would stop criticizing Scientology, in fact. I suppose all an
OT has to do is postulate that they won't get injured by a speeding car
and go out and do it.
Any OTs out there with a friend and a digicam?
Zinj
@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, rolan...@hotmail.com says...
They do it all the time; writ small. Writ sneaky.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=scientology+insane
Larry T.
news:1169455749....@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Loger Rarsson
Larry
(SNIP)
RolandRB
BBICON wrote:
> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>
>
> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.
>
>
>
> Is Scientology a Scam?
Let the reader decide based on the musings of a former Scientologist.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/opinions/rashleighberry20070122.html.html
America's Best Christian
BBICON wrote:
> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>
>
> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Is Scientology a Scam?
>
> that cult founders are con men exploiting brainwashed victims for
> personal wealth and power is often made by critics. In fact, it's a
> very common myth which anti-cultists launch at a great variety of
> groups.
>
> Why is this a myth? Because a scam would mean that leaders are
> *knowingly* exploiting others, that they know perfectly well that
> their doctrine is pure fantasy but somehow manage to hypnotize
> followers into accepting it. In other words, that they don't believe
> their own doctrine themselves. This, in my opinion, and that of many
> scholars who have studied cults, is false.
>
> If leaders really believed their own doctrine, would it still be a
> scam? Of course not. At the worst, it would qualify as a form of
> illusion.
>
> If one thus assume that leaders are themselves as convinced about their
> own doctrine as any dedicated member (and this is what I witnessed in
> the cult myself), then he will view the claim that the group is a scam
> as a myth. Not just a myth, in fact, but a derogatory, false, and
> dangerous accusation.
>
> The scam myth works together with the mind-control myth in promoting
> ostracism against unpopular groups and bring authorities to over-react.
>
> The FBI, who made the mistake to follow anti-cult advises in the Waco
> tragedy, now seems to realize this important aspect. In their Law
> Enforcement Bulletin of September 2000, they describe this particular
> myth and its dangers:
>
> NRMs often are stereotyped as con games run by opportunistic leaders.
> Undoubtedly, some founders establish NRMs to intentionally bilk
> followers out of money or to unilaterally promote their own interests.
> More frequently, though, NRM leaders genuinely believe in their
> teachings, however outlandish or fantastic these seem. Such leaders or
> prophets will undergo great sacrifices-up to and including death-for
> the sake of their message, and it is dangerous for law enforcement
> officers to approach such leaders as if they were disingenuous con
> artists.
>
> Certain practices sometimes are mistaken for indicators that leaders
> are insincere. For example, the fact that NRM leaders enjoy benefits or
> living comforts that their followers do not simply may reflect the
> honor that the groups attach to the leaders' positions. Similarly,
> groups' requirement that members turn over their assets to the
> movements may be prompted by a genuine attempt to promote an ascetic
> lifestyle among the members. Law enforcement officers should be very
> hesitant to assume that the leaders of NRMs are not sincere.
>
> If officers suspect that NRM officials have improper motives, they
> should examine the leaders' backgrounds. Sociopaths or con artists
> generally will not invest years trying to spread their messages and
> form groups without a guaranteed payoff. Officers also should remember
> that NRM leaders and followers may have many complex motivations for
> their behavior, not all of which are internally consistent. NRM leaders
> may manipulate others and, yet, still hold sincere religious beliefs.
> Thus, even if leaders display signs of sociopathic or criminal
> behavior, officers should not assume that these individuals are
> insincere about their religious beliefs.
>
> In the absence of contrary evidence, officers should assume that NRM
> leaders are true to their spiritual convictions.
>
> The Scientology case
>
> In the case of Scientology, in addition of the usual "it's all crap"
> and "mind-control" allegations, two of the main arguments being made by
> critics to convince others (and themselves) that Scientology is a scam,
> are as follows:
>
> The core doctrine is being held secret until the member is sufficiently
> brainwashed to accept it and is ready to pay the big bucks for it.
>
> Members are not being told what the whole path will cost them.
>
> There are, however, several myths and misconceptions involved in these
> allegations:
>
> 1. The secret levels are NOT the core belief of Scientology. It's
> merely one of many incidents one will find on his "time track", albeit
> a powerful one and one which is supposed to still influences people
> thought their bundled together BTs. The core belief of Scientology is
> that one is a spiritual being, and that through the Scientology process
> referred to as "auditing", can free himself of "engrams" and "implants"
> (among which the Xenu incident) and thus recover their native spiritual
> abilities. It was their belief long *before* the BTs episode even
> entered the scene, and it is still the belief of the majority of
> Scientologists since they don't even know about Xenu and BTs, yet call
> what they do "Scientology". It is thus deceptive to claim that the core
> belief of Scientology is hidden until one reaches the OT levels. For
> more information on that issue, check the Xenu page.
>
> 2. The NATURE of the belief isn't even hidden. The promotional material
> clearly indicates that it is a galactic incident that happened 75
> billion years ago. To claim that Scientology presents one facet on the
> outside and another on the inside is false. Space opera fiction
> references in Scientology abound in Scientology literature, including
> in magazines that are sent out on a large scale to outsiders. One of
> the most quoted book, History of Man, is widely available and contains
> loads of wild science-fiction stories (as do many other books and
> articles).
>
> 3. The costs of courses and auditing aren't hidden either. In fact, a
> list of prices and items often arrives together with promotional
> material, and is very widely available. Apart for the fact that the
> total price quoted by critics is an high estimate (the price depends on
> the length of each action and a much cheaper route is available through
> training and co-auditing), it is very easy for anyone to make an
> estimate of the magnitude it will cost him would he want to make the
> whole road. The price isn't in a bulk, and the person is free to stop
> at any stage were he to become disillusioned in Scientology and its
> technique. It is their choice to continue or not, and many continue
> simply because they make case gains and are happy with the results.
>
> 4. Keeping something secret is not necessarily part of a scam, and is
> being done by quite a few other religions. The Mormons do it, the
> Kabalistic Jews do it, to name just two - not to speak of countless
> esoteric movements such as the Free Masons and others. The point is,
> again, that members and leaders alike *really* believe it can be
> dangerous to read about the Xenu episode or run the related processes
> before one is spiritually advanced enough to confront the trauma this
> supposed accident is supposed to carry. Again, because of their genuine
> believe, it hardly qualifies as a scam. At the worst, merely a very
> silly belief.
>
> As an ex-member, I don't believe in Scientology techniques. While I do
> think it can have positive effects, I view the spiritual bragging and
> exploitation it is marketed with as a form of illusion in which people
> buy because they need to believe, accept an outside authority, are
> anxious about their eternal future, and are in need of an higher
> purpose to lighten their way. However, I do NOT consider it a scam
> because, IMO, the strength with which the leader is able to pass his
> own visions and delusions to his followers is potent precisely because
> he genuinely shares these with them.
>
> The scam myth is responsible for much unnecessary distress from cult
> members' relatives and for unwarranted phobias from the public and
> authorities. It also comes in the way of a fair understanding of the
> real phenomena that underlies the issue and is responsible for the fact
> that ex-members who have fallen prey of this other form of cultic
> belief are unable to leave the cult behind and move on. In a
> self-perpetrating circle, they will continuously reinforce their new
> us/them, black and white, belief to justify themselves, and will
> thereby keep the fuel of endless resentment alive.
Is Scientology a scam? Honestly, only the most reality-deprived would
even bother to pose the question.
Of course, it is a scam. And, as scams go, it is a rather outrageous
one that serves to underscore just how some people's credulity can be
seemingly limitless.
Previously, we had to rely on Mormonism and Catholicism to test the
tensile strength of human gullibility. But the tenets of Scientology
are so unashamedly foolish, we now see that humans are capable of being
gulled to extremes previously thought to be unimaginable.
And, for that, I sincerely thank Scientology!
barbz
Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and gives
us more protection
than any other single thing. If certain parties thought we were real we
would have infinitely
more trouble ... without a public incredulity we never would have gotten
as far as we have.
And now it's too late to be stopped. The protection was accidental but
it serves us very well
indeed. Remember that the next time the ignorant scoff.
-- L. Ron Hubbard{2}
[93a] {HCOB 29 July 1963 "Scientology Review" (as quoted in the
Australian Report)}
RolandRB
On 24 Jan, 00:00, barbz <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
> America's Best Christian wrote:
> > BBICON wrote:
> >> taken fromhttp://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>
> >> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> >> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> >> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> >> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> >> scam label.
>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > And, for that, I sincerely thank Scientology!Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and gives
> us more protection
> than any other single thing. If certain parties thought we were real we
> would have infinitely
> more trouble ... without a public incredulity we never would have gotten
> as far as we have.
> And now it's too late to be stopped. The protection was accidental but
> it serves us very well
> indeed. Remember that the next time the ignorant scoff.
> -- L. Ron Hubbard{2}
>
> [93a] {HCOB 29 July 1963 "Scientology Review" (as quoted in the
> Australian Report)}
Praise be to Source.
Vox Marbles
On Jan 22, 12:32 am, "BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> taken fromhttp://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm
>
> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Intent is irrelevant, clamcake.
"I didn't know the gun was loaded,
so excuse me while I shoot you again."
Me
And just as expensive.
Like all religions it just makes the priests rich.
Their ideas seem noble but it is just about making money.
In fact this auditing is uneccessary.
It is similar to confessing to a priest or a shrink and like them they use
the knowlege of your life to destroy you and take all you have.
Unfortunately life is like that.
It's the money they are after, and the Bishop of Rome is no exception.
Just like all the others, the west if full of these nasty holes and people
fall in, and we all fall in the eternal nothing when we cease to be at our
termination.
I found the best time of my life was in the soviet union and that paradise
is now lost to the lies of the engulfing and consuming west.
I would like the nasty bits of the west to slide into the atlantic and
drown, just leaving the nice bits.
I find men especially western men slimy and foul and women are only after
money.
Now those beautiful russian girls are on the make too, it is nasty, the
money business.
I have invented a 3 D vdu that is worth billions but it is quite clear that
I will not get a penny as with other inventions that are mine. That is what
it means to be in dispute with ?, I don't know, but they may be catholic
leaders or anglicans who are prepared to kill and die over their faith.
It does not prove is true but I do basicly believe it and I don't really
know what the fus is about.
Gnostic Christians had beliefs "jesus was a man from the sky who taught us
stuff" and that life ended in death, but they were put to the sward by the
Roman church "for there is no future in it".
I know myself that a man who has no faith in the afterlife cannot live
because he is in a constant state of terror.
Like most people I sort of do not believe I will stop at death but go to
some celestial palace of a "star ship". And like the ancient egyptions pray
I will not face a second death after transmission to my ship.
I just wait and see.
Some people who loose their faith and become terror stricken have to be
given a pill to make them sleep to prevent the pain.
What else can you do, other than tell, that "you will not die".
Which is what I tell myself.
"I will not die".
The tragedy of sentience.
Terminal.
"RolandRB" <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169619889.5...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
BBICON
Are you talking to me....or to actually the person that wrote that
comment, because as I stated I took that from a site
-Bruce
RolandRB
He was talking to you and now so am I. Read this through and tell me
whether Scientology is a scam or not. That is, if you are allowed to do
so.
You are told that Scientology is a way of improving people's lives by
making the able more able.
You are told that Scientology is not a religion but rather "an applied
religious philosophy".
You are told about a state of Clear whereby a person has perfect
recall, immunity from accidents and flu, a longer life and the ability
to solve chess problems in a fraction of the time and that you can
reach this state by inexpensive Dianetics auditing.
You pay for the auditing and after a few hours of it it is stopped
because you don't seem to be getting enough benefit from it.
You are told you need Scientology auditing rather than Dianetics
auditing which is 100 times more effective. Trouble is, it costs 20
times the price. You can't afford it so you are persuaded to learn to
be a Scientology auditor yourself where you can co-audit and therefore
do it cheaper.
So you are sold the courses and the e-meter and you hope to go Clear at
half the price. But you so much want to have those powers as a Clear
that you press on.
Two years later and you are getting nowhere. You are frustrated. The
auditing your twin gave you doesn't work. What you need now is "repair
auditing" done at the cost you were trying to avoid.
You get the repair auditing and you are now back on course. Several
months later you are getting nowhere.
Your only way to make any progress at all is to go for the full priced
auditing you were trying to avoid. You are told that the "professional"
auditors will give you more benefits in an hour than you have ever got
in your life from doing Scientology.
You get "professional" auditing. You are pleased to have a chance to
progress at last. A few weeks later you realize you are getting
nowhere. But you want to be a "Clear" so you shut up and get on with
it.
You have the elusive Clear cognition that basically says that a person
realises that they are mocking up their own reactive mind. You go to
"attest".
You attest but wonder why you haven't got immunity from colds and flu,
perfect recall etc. Just that you are "mocking up your own reactive
mind less". The goal you aimed for is not there. You express your
concern but are told that all those goals and so much more are there on
the OT levels.
Having gone Clear and hoping to have greater abilities, you are now
told that "you are at risk and must rapidly move up to OT III". So
having gone Clear and paid money for Dianetics auditing, then training,
then repair auditing and then having paid for the too expensive
"professional auditing" you tried to avoid in the first place you reach
the stage after paying more money where you have no extra abilities -
worse still, you are at risk.
You have learnt by now that Scientology IS a religion and anyone who
says otherwise is an SP and an enemy of the Church and mankind. You
hand over money to help them in their legal battles to keep Scientology
running as a religion even though you were told it was not a religion
but rather "an applied religious philosophy" yourself when you asked.
You do OT III and the self-help group you thought you joined now takes
on a new turn. You learn that you are full of the souls of dead space
aliens named "body thetans" and it is they who are holding you back.
You have to telepathically audit these dead space aliens to make them
go away and then you will get super-powers like being able to leave
your body at will and fly around the universe.
You do the expensive OT III and you attest to being free of body
thetans. You wonder why you can't "exteriorize" or fly around the
universe.
You are now told that you are still full of body thetans but the nearly
dead or unconscious ones that didn't respond to OT III. You now have to
do the OT IV Drug Rundown to take vitamins to wake up these body
thetans so they can be audited.
Now comes OT V audited NOTs. This is really expensive at double the
cost per hour of the "professional auditing" you were trying to avoid
when you got in and wanted to become Clear. And you are audited on this
for many many hours. It seems like the richer you are, the more body
thetans you have, so all your money goes away and you go deep into
debt.
After OT V you at last get onto OT VI. Guess what? More body thetans
need to be handled but you can "solo audit" them away.
So you finally finish OT VI. Guess what? More body thetans need to be
handled on OT VII. This is going to take many years and all the money
you could ever get from anywhere. On top of this a "six month sec
check" has to be performed that you have to pay for.
Few people finish OT VII but if they do they get onto OT VIII. The
nospam...@myway.com
.............................................................................................................
Info on Griffin, (Robert=Rabbles) the operator of the free speech
hating NOCEM spam, defame, attack, harassment bot StopBabbles:
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?enc_author=WX5ZTyEAAACnWN3bc6M3tWorx5Oa9sjUK6XOnttm3_3sOvzoF-PYqSGeh77yVtMuD7ntKWIADiU&scoring=d
Robert Griffin from Australia libeled the always kind and good natured
Barbara Schwarz in the past as "slut", "mentally ill", "bushpig",
"terrorist", "spastic clam head psycho" and used the f-word. He posted
death threats against her, e.g. that she should be "deprogrammed" of
her opinions "with a cylindrical object not less than six inches
diameter and 6 feet in length, at tube of moldy grease and a large
hammer."
She should get a restraining order.
Info on stalker, forger, defamer and self confessed child rapist
Stapleton. (Eru Avatar with e-mail address alsimak_three @ yahoo.com)
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=Peat+stapleton&qt_s=Search
Info on anti-free speecher, defamer and ABHL transsexual webmaster
former inmate Brian J. Bruns:
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Brian+Bruns%2BAHBL&qt_s=Search
Info on k00k Dave Touretzky:
http://religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/david-touretzky/
Info on Wikipedia misleading media and the public:
http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/
Vox Marbles
The comment was directed to the person who wrote the drivel and to
those that agree with it. I don't much care which of the two categories
you fall into.
Oh... by the way, when it comes to fraud, intent is irrelevant.
Vox Marbles
On Jan 24, 11:07 pm, "RolandRB" <rolandbe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 25 Jan, 02:01, "BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Intent is irrelevant, clamcake.
>
> > Are you talking to me....or to actually the person that wrote that
> > comment, because as I stated I took that from a site
> > -BruceHe was talking to you and now so am I. Read this through and tell me
Holy crap! Reading this I'm reminded of a scene from The Mask of Zoro:
-- So what is lesson number three?
-- To get to lesson number four.
Skipper
Marbles <flis...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Umm, Elwrong said there are at least 19 levels above Operating Thetan
8. Dang it, he didn't get to crank those out before dying with a
psychiatric drug in his system and being cremated and ashes scattered
over the Pacific. Bet he's some pissed-off rotting fish shit right now
about all that money he didn't live to con people out of!