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BBICON  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 22 2007, 12:32 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com>
Date: 21 Jan 2007 21:32:06 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 12:32 am
Subject: Is Scientology a scam ?
taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm

Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
scam label.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----

Is Scientology a Scam?

The claim that Scientology is a scam, dressed up as a religion, and
that cult founders are con men exploiting brainwashed victims for
personal wealth and power is often made by critics. In fact, it's a
very common myth which anti-cultists launch at a great variety of
groups.

Why is this a myth? Because a scam would mean that leaders are
*knowingly* exploiting others, that they  know perfectly well that
their doctrine is pure fantasy but somehow manage to hypnotize
followers into accepting it. In other words, that they don't believe
their own doctrine themselves. This, in my opinion, and that of many
scholars who have studied cults, is false.

If leaders really believed their own doctrine, would it still be a
scam? Of course not. At the worst, it would qualify as a form of
illusion.

If one thus assume that leaders are themselves as convinced about their
own doctrine as any dedicated member (and this is what I witnessed in
the cult myself), then he will view the claim that the group is a scam
as a myth. Not just a myth, in fact, but a derogatory, false, and
dangerous accusation.

The scam myth works together with the mind-control myth in promoting
ostracism against unpopular groups and bring authorities to over-react.

The FBI, who made the mistake to follow anti-cult advises in the Waco
tragedy, now seems to realize this important aspect. In their Law
Enforcement Bulletin of September 2000, they describe this particular
myth and its dangers:

NRMs often are stereotyped as con games run by opportunistic leaders.
Undoubtedly, some founders establish NRMs to intentionally bilk
followers out of money or to unilaterally promote their own interests.
More frequently, though, NRM leaders genuinely believe in their
teachings, however outlandish or fantastic these seem. Such leaders or
prophets will undergo great sacrifices-up to and including death-for
the sake of their message, and it is dangerous for law enforcement
officers to approach such leaders as if they were disingenuous con
artists.

Certain practices sometimes are mistaken for indicators that leaders
are insincere. For example, the fact that NRM leaders enjoy benefits or
living comforts that their followers do not simply may reflect the
honor that the groups attach to the leaders' positions. Similarly,
groups' requirement that members turn over their assets to the
movements may be prompted by a genuine attempt to promote an ascetic
lifestyle among the members. Law enforcement officers should be very
hesitant to assume that the leaders of NRMs are not sincere.

If officers suspect that NRM officials have improper motives, they
should examine the leaders' backgrounds. Sociopaths or con artists
generally will not invest years trying to spread their messages and
form groups without a guaranteed payoff. Officers also should remember
that NRM leaders and followers may have many complex motivations for
their behavior, not all of which are internally consistent. NRM leaders
may manipulate others and, yet, still hold sincere religious beliefs.
Thus, even if leaders display signs of sociopathic or criminal
behavior, officers should not assume that these individuals are
insincere about their religious beliefs.

In the absence of contrary evidence, officers should assume that NRM
leaders are true to their spiritual convictions.

The Scientology case

In the case of Scientology, in addition of the usual "it's all crap"
and "mind-control" allegations, two of the main arguments being made by
critics to convince others (and themselves) that Scientology is a scam,
are as follows:

The core doctrine is being held secret until the member is sufficiently
brainwashed to accept it and is ready to pay the big bucks for it.

Members are not being told what the whole path will cost them.

There are, however, several myths and misconceptions involved in these
allegations:

1. The secret levels are NOT the core belief of Scientology. It's
merely one of many incidents one will find on his "time track", albeit
a powerful one and one which is supposed to still influences people
thought their bundled together BTs. The core belief of Scientology is
that one is a spiritual being, and that through the Scientology process
referred to as "auditing", can free himself of "engrams" and "implants"
(among which the Xenu incident) and thus recover their native spiritual
abilities. It was their belief long *before* the BTs episode even
entered the scene, and it is still the belief of the majority of
Scientologists since they don't even know about Xenu and BTs, yet call
what they do "Scientology". It is thus deceptive to claim that the core
belief of Scientology is hidden until one reaches the OT levels. For
more information on that issue, check the Xenu page.

2. The NATURE of the belief isn't even hidden. The promotional material
clearly indicates that it is a galactic incident that happened 75
billion years ago. To claim that Scientology presents one facet on the
outside and another on the inside is false. Space opera fiction
references in Scientology abound in Scientology literature, including
in magazines that are sent out on a large scale to outsiders. One of
the most quoted book, History of Man, is widely available and contains
loads of wild science-fiction stories (as do many other books and
articles).

3. The costs of courses and auditing aren't hidden either. In fact, a
list of prices and items often arrives together with promotional
material, and is very widely available. Apart for the fact that the
total price quoted by critics is an high estimate (the price depends on
the length of each action and a much cheaper route is available through
training and co-auditing), it is very easy for anyone to make an
estimate of the magnitude it will cost him would he want to make the
whole road. The price isn't in a bulk, and the person is free to stop
at any stage were he to become disillusioned in Scientology and its
technique. It is their choice to continue or not, and many continue
simply because they make case gains and are happy with the results.

4. Keeping something secret is not necessarily part of a scam, and is
being done by quite a few other religions. The Mormons do it, the
Kabalistic Jews do it, to name just two - not to speak of countless
esoteric movements such as the Free Masons and others. The point is,
again, that members and leaders alike *really* believe it can be
dangerous to read about the Xenu episode or run the related processes
before one is spiritually advanced enough to confront the trauma this
supposed accident is supposed to carry. Again, because of their genuine
believe, it hardly qualifies as a scam. At the worst, merely a very
silly belief.

As an ex-member, I don't believe in Scientology techniques. While I do
think it can have positive effects, I view the spiritual bragging and
exploitation it is marketed with as a form of illusion in which people
buy because they need to believe, accept an outside authority, are
anxious about their eternal future, and are in need of an higher
purpose to lighten their way. However, I do NOT consider it a scam
because, IMO, the strength with which the leader is able to pass his
own visions and delusions to his followers is potent precisely because
he genuinely shares these with them.

The scam myth is responsible for much unnecessary distress from cult
members' relatives and for unwarranted phobias from the public and
authorities. It also comes in the way of a fair  understanding of the
real phenomena that underlies the issue and is responsible for the fact
that ex-members who have fallen prey of this other form of cultic
belief are unable to leave the cult behind and move on. In a
self-perpetrating circle, they will continuously reinforce their new
us/them, black and white, belief to justify themselves, and will
thereby keep the fuel of endless resentment alive.


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nospamnos...@myway.com  
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(1 user)  More options Jan 22 2007, 1:17 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: nospamnos...@myway.com
Date: 21 Jan 2007 22:17:49 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 1:17 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?

Good for posting some impartial news.

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Roger Larsson  
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 More options Jan 22 2007, 3:49 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "Roger Larsson" <exins...@tiscali.se>
Date: 22 Jan 2007 00:49:09 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 3:49 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?

BBICON skrev:

L. Ron Hubbard never pops up from a box saying to his victims "SMILE!
You're in scientology" so they goes on believing his lies have an
existence in the reality.

If Hubbard had learned himself how to end cycles from the professionals
in Candid Camera he could have avoided much hate, war and stupidity in
the world.

Roger Larsson


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Akhenaten  
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(1 user)  More options Jan 22 2007, 4:53 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "Akhenaten" <xenuakhena...@hotmail.com>
Date: 22 Jan 2007 01:53:18 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 4:53 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?

On Jan 22, 4:32 pm, "BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> taken fromhttp://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm

> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ­-----

> Is Scientology a Scam?  <snip yet another rambling copy-and-paste full of drivel>

Yes.

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antisectes  
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(2 users)  More options Jan 22 2007, 8:52 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "antisectes" <roger.gon...@chello.fr>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:52:04 +0100
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 8:52 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?

BBICON wrote:
> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htmcretinized pmorons don't
> say anything really truthful, scam cultist.

r

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RolandRB  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 22 2007, 9:51 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "RolandRB" <rolandbe...@hotmail.com>
Date: 22 Jan 2007 06:51:52 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 9:51 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?
Is it a scam? Lemme think this through...

1) You are told that Scientology is a way of improving people's lives
by making the able more able.

2) You are told that Scientology is not a religion but rather "an
applied religious philosophy".

3) You are told about a state of Clear whereby a person has perfect
recall, immunity from accidents and flu, a longer life and the ability
to solve chess problems in a fraction of the time and that you can
reach this state by inexpensive Dianetics auditing.

4) You pay for the auditing and after a few hours of it it is stopped
because you don't seem to be getting enough benefit from it.

5) You are told you need Scientology auditing rather than Dianetics
auditing which is 100 times more effective. Trouble is, it cost 20
times the price. You can't afford it so you are persuaded to learn to
be a Scientology auditor yourself where you can co-audit and therefore
do it cheaper.

6) So you are sold the courses and the e-meter and you hope to go clear
at half the price. But you so much want to have those powers as a Clear
tat you press on.

7) Two years later and you are getting nowhere. You are frustrated. The
auditing your twin gave you doesn't work. What you need now is "repair
auditing" done at the cost you were trying to avoid.

8) You get the repair auditing and you are now back on course. Several
months later you are gettting nowhere.

9) Your only way to make any progress at all is to go for the full
priced auditing you were trying to avoid. You are told that the
"professional" auditors will give you more benefits in an hour than you
have ever got in your life from doing Scientology.

10) You get "professional" auditing. You are pleased to have a chance
to progress at last. A few weeks later you realize you are getting
nowhere. But you want to be a "Clear" so you shut up and get on with
it.

11) You have the elusive Clear cognition that basically says that a
person realises that they are mocking up their own reactive mind. You
go to "attest".

12) You attest but wonder why you haven't got immunity from colds and
flu, perfect recall etc. Just that you are "mocking up your own
reactive mind less". The goal you aimed for is not there. You express
your concern but are told that all those goals and so much more are
there on the OT levels.

13) Having gone Clear and hoping to have greater abilities, you are now
told that "you are at risk and must rapidly move up to OT III". So
having gone Clear and paid money for Dianetics auditing, then training,
then repair auditing and then having paid for the too expensive
"professional auditing" you tried to avoid in the first place you reach
the stage after paying more money where you have no extra abilities --
worse still, you are at risk.

14) You have learnt by now that Scientology IS a religion and anyone
who says otherwise is an SP and an enemy of the Church and mankind. You
hand over money to help them in their legal battles to keep Scientology
running as a religion even though you were told it was not a religion
but rather "an applied religious philosophy" yourself when yu asked.

15) You do OT III and the self-help group you thought you joined now
takes on a new turn. You learn that you are full of the souls of dead
space aliens named "body thetans" and it is they who are holding you
back. You have to telepathically audit these dead space aliens to make
them go away and then you will get super-powers like being able to
leave your body at will and fly around the universe.

16) You do the expensive OT III and you attest to being free of body
thetans. You wonder why you can't "exteriorize" or fly around the
universe.

17) You are now told that you are still full of body thetans but the
nearly dead or unconscious ones that didn't respond to OT III. You now
have to do the OT IV Drug Rundown to take vitemins to wake up these
body thetans so they can be audited.

18) Now come OT V audited NOTs. This is *really* expensive at double
the cost per hour of the "professional auditing" you were trying to
avoid when you got in and wanted to become Clear. And you are auditied
on this for many many hours. It seems like the richer you are, the more
body thetans you have, so all your money goes away and you go deep into
debt.

19) After OT V you at last get onto OT VI. Guess what? More body
thetans need to be handled but you can "solo audit" them away.

20) So you finally finish OT VI. Guess what? More body thetans need to
be handled on OT VII. This is going to take many years and all the
money you could ever get from anywhere. On top of this a "six month sec
check" has to be performed that you have to pay for.

21) Few people finish OT VII but of they do they get onto OT VIII. The
final blinding "cognition" of this level is you realise "now I know who
I am not and am interested in finding out who I am" when you realise
that all your supposed memories were not real but belonged to the body
thetans you got rid of. And as for the OT powers, there are none
because you are a "baby OT" now. No immunity from colds and flu and
perfect recall that you were told about when you came through the door.
You have parted with perhaps $350,000 for "now I know who I am not and
am interested in finding out who I am".

Is it a scam? I'll let the reader decide.


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Zinj  
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(3 users)  More options Jan 22 2007, 10:19 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: Zinj <zinji...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:19:29 -0500
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?
In article <1169443926.081412.309140
@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bbi...@hotmail.com says...

> taken from http://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm

> Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scientology, I question the
> scam label.

Your definition of a scam is flawed.

Otherwise a pyramid scheme, chain letter, amway or anything
anyone believed in at any link on the chain would not be a
'scam'.

The fraud can be present at *any* link on the chain, with all
the other links being 'well intentioned'.

Scientology presents a 'special' problem, since it's literally
training in 'believing' any damn thing you want, regardless of
actual and/or obvious fact. 'True for you' is a recipe for
delusion.

The Scientology scammer (Ron, for example, or Davey) can be
perfectly aware of his fraud, but, at the same time, believe in
it utterly.

Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think


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Eldon  
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(1 user)  More options Jan 22 2007, 10:27 am
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com>
Date: 22 Jan 2007 07:27:05 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 22 2007 10:27 am
Subject: Re: Is Scientology a scam ?

Akhenaten wrote:
> On Jan 22, 4:32 pm, "BBICON" <bbi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > taken fromhttp://bernie.cncfamily.com/ars.htm

> > Scientology is often presented by critics as a scam. I argue that for
> > it to be a scam, there would need to be intent. I also argue that
> > founders and leaders of cults are usually true believers themselves.
> > Therefore, even though I do not agree with Scie