DALE BOGEN Jan 06,1952 - Nov 11,1984
Out_Of_The_Dark
internet about Dale Bogen's suicide while she was on services at ASHO
back in Nov 1984. Does anyone remember her or the situation?
I was out of town for 2 months and when I came back I asked around ASHO
if any one had seen her. The D of P told me to speak to the Dir I & R,
Bobby Schaffner, who I knew pretty well. I said," Bob, What's going on
with Dale Bogen? The D of P told me to ask you." He asked me to step in
and close the door, which I did.
Now, my 1st thought was this: I knew that she was getting auditing but
I also knew she was a petition-approved pc so I thought maybe something
changed on that and asked him. I knew he'd be straight with me. "No,
she was a pc" on a rundown that is sometimes given to people who are
overwhelmed and unable to proceed in processing but she'd committed
suicide after leaving the org one night back in November (1984).
I was shocked. Here it was over a month later I did not know how to
respond. This was, for me, the 3rd unexpected death of a scientologist
in over 1 year. It was so unreal. I could not imagine Dale doing
something like that but then again, I did not know every personal thing
about her. I asked how she died and how did he find out. He said the
police contacted ASHO when they found her because she had receipts and
some books in the car. He said she took her car way up the main road
in the Los Angeles Mountains, parked and plugged up the exhaust line
with a rag or something and then got back in the car and went to sleep
with the engine on. He knew nothing else.
I put my 'KSW hat' on and I asked him if he made sure her folders got
to Qual for rev and correction. He said "yes", but we both knew at that
time that nothing was predictable and 'what was supposed to be and what
actually happened were often 2 different things' . We just looked at
each other and I could tell he was not the happy Bob I'd all come to
know in the past. He looked so tired. We chatted for a few minutes
about other things and I left.
I finished up my cycles in Los Angeles and returned home shortly
thereafter, seemingly blocking the whole thing out until I got news
that Bobby had died after he'd struck a truck with his motorcycle on
June 05,1987.
I never got the courage to follow up, after that, until now. This is
the first time I have talked about Dale's suicide to anyone. Thank you
to all those who are making it easier for ex-members to come out and
speak up but most thanks to Mr. Creed Pearson, for writing the truth in
your letter to ED INT. You see, I've stepped out of the shadows because
it inspired and strengthened me to hold firm my faith in God and speak
up today to show my support in getting the truth out.
I have no animosity against anyone in or out of scientology. Some of
the most wonderful and intelligent people have fallen prey to it's
trap. I will be writing more in the future, and I will be asking about
these people and hoping that what I say can reach them or be of help
to someone else.
Android Cat
> I never got the courage to follow up, after that, until now. This is
> the first time I have talked about Dale's suicide to anyone. Thank you
> to all those who are making it easier for ex-members to come out and
> speak up but most thanks to Mr. Creed Pearson, for writing the truth
> in your letter to ED INT. You see, I've stepped out of the shadows
> because it inspired and strengthened me to hold firm my faith in God
> and speak up today to show my support in getting the truth out.
There is a section about Creed in Robert Farley's article "The unperson" in
yesterday's SPT:
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/06/24/Tampabay/The_unperson.shtml
"Hi, Creed, this is Kathy Feshbach. Sunday morning . I just heard that you
were under some kind of ethics cycle. So, you are not invited to our house
today. I am sure you understand. So, ah, thank you very much for
understanding. Please do not attend the event. Thank you very much for
understanding."
Hrphm. Well, she said understanding three times, and I guess that makes it
true for her.
> I have no animosity against anyone in or out of scientology. Some of
> the most wonderful and intelligent people have fallen prey to it's
> trap. I will be writing more in the future, and I will be asking about
> these people and hoping that what I say can reach them or be of help
> to someone else.
"Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate."
-- Robert Vaughn Young
--
Ron of that ilk.
Out_Of_The_Dark
I once treated people in a similar way for leaving or questioning the
'church'. This is what 'faith' in scientology means: dogged adherence
without full understanding.
I was reminded that I still have a few apologies to deliver for my lack
of 'understanding' in the past.
So much to know, so much to see & do; one day at a time, like peeling
layers off an onion.
For those not in the know, here is a link to Creed's letter to ED Int
http://www.silentology.com/
___________________________________
Keith Henson
<xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I've not seen anything mentioned at whyaretheydead or anywhere on the
>internet about Dale Bogen's suicide while she was on services at ASHO
>back in Nov 1984. Does anyone remember her or the situation?
This is new information for a.r.s and the net generally. The only
reference Google/google groups finds with this name is:
Dale Bogen INTRO ASSISTS COURSE Celebrity 1982-11-01
I can't find anything on her using the SS death index. Was this her
married name? Do you know her birth year?
Keith Henson
Warrior
Out_Of_The_Dark says...
I don't know anything about Dale since I left the Sea Org at ASHO in
September 1983. I knew Bobby Schaffner pretty well, having worked
with him in the Computer room at AOLA for the better part of 1983.
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
"Scientology: it's about deception."
http://warrior.xenu.ca
--
Out_Of_The_Dark
like many of us, our full information is not listed because many
mission's did not have mags or the person never did a service at Flag.
If the org or mission was broke, there was no mag produced. Any former
staff will tell you that.
Dale was from one of the two PA orgs that existed back then. She lived
in LA for several years but returned to PA on holidays. I believe she
intended to co-audit her way up via the levels & the Briefing Course.
Registrars did not usually care if you were illegal because of a psych
history. As long as you did not make problems for the church,
volunteered when you could, and of course, if had more money to spend,
you could proceed up the bridge one step at a time. Once you were
considered ok to train, you gave money first and then petitioned for
auditing.
Dale was a kind person and there are ex-staff and public from PAC area
and the Manor/ CCI who knew of her. But like most students visiting
ASHO from out of town, they spent most of their time in ASHO/LA Org
Bldg.
Her death info was reported by the church to the police. From there it
went to the coroner's office, who then reported it to the health dept .
They have a death database at the genealogy wweb site RootsWeb. I came
across Dale and Bob Shaffner's death info bye checking the databases
out while doing a family history project recently.
Her social security number is not listed so it might not have been
reported to SSA.
Her mother's maiden name is listed but that is something we had to
report on life history forms so I am sure that the churchj provided the
info. One day I will get the coroner's report.
Here is the info and instructions on where & how I found it:
Last Name First Name Middle Birth Date Mother Maiden Father Last Sex
Birth Place Death Place Residence Death Date SSN Age Post-ems Order
Record
BOGEN DALE SUSAN 01/06/1952 BLUMENBERG F PENNSYLVANIA LOS
ANGELES(19) 11/11/1984 ________ 32 yrs - -
Find section:
Records from Federal and State Resources:
Social Security Death Index (SSDI)
Death Records: California, Kentucky, Maine, Texas
Click : California
Just input Dale's surname (Bogen) and given name ( Dale). Leave the
rest blank
( Robert 'Bob' Schaffner can be found this way, too) I did not try
others but usually it's better to check if SSA's Death Index does not
have all the California info.
There are others. I will post names and info as I go along. I am
walking out of the darkness one step at a time. I hope this is of
help.
-JustCallMeMary
re:
" This is new information for a.r.s and the net generally. The only
reference Google/google groups finds with this name is:
Dale Bogen INTRO ASSISTS COURSE Celebrity 1982-11-01
I can't find anything on her using the SS death index. Was this her
married name? Do you know her birth year?
Keith Henson"
Out_Of_The_Dark
it. There were other students from PA at ASHO and naming names might
help jog someones memory.
-JustCallMeMary
Warrior wrote:
> In article <1151230153.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
roger gonnet
"Out_Of_The_Dark" <xscilen...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1151230153.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
This adds to the three [undisclosed in critics websites ] italian suicides i
added this week.
5 more suicides -- or at least 4 plus the story of the guy killed on his
motorcycle -- linked to the crime cult, in one week. I'm quasi certain that
scientology has something like 500 suicides linked to it, but that we ignore 80
% of those. Not to speak of other causes of death (bad cures for letal illnesses
like cancer, accidents caused by overwhelmed scientologists, sauna overdosages
of niacin, etc etc.)
r
>
Out_Of_The_Dark
to light in due time. The church engine cannot match the power of free
will + the internet.
I am very inspired by Creed Pearson's Letter to ED Int: The Religion of
the Anti Christ 888, Introduction to silentology. www.silentology.com
I am certain other's will be inspired by it and take a stand, too.
I hope my post was helpful for the cause. Unlesss you are talking
about anothere person, check with Keith H on the motorcycle (bike)
one because I was discussing Bob Schaffner -wI see is already listed
already as having been killed on his bicycle. I may have confused bike
with........bike.
-JustCallMeMary