AUTOMATIC CANCELING OF CROSSPOSTS TO A.C.T
ho...@lightlink.com
a.c.t that contains a.r.s. Cancellations only affect
news2.lightlink.com.
If you wish both groups to see the posting, you must double post,
one to each group.
As many people use our public news server to get to a.r.s, I would
strongly consider not cross posting to a.c.t.
Homer
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Barbara loves Marty
What is the problem with cross posting, Homer? ACT is Scientology-
related.
Barbara Schwarz
ho...@lightlink.com
>
> What is the problem with cross posting, Homer? ACT is Scientology-
> related.
>
> Barbara Schwarz
If they are so related, then there should be only one group.
a.r.s is a sewer system between dishonest critics who can not
think, and Churchies who can not talk, and who mostly haven't a clue
anyhow.
a.c.t is a technical forum about ideas, not about particular people
or their behavior in any particular church, nor about events except once
in a while.
We welcome honest questions from people who are not dharma
criminals, hyenas, jackals, hecklers, card carrying meatballs, prove it
cases, or non serious truth seekers.
The issues of a.c.t are not whether clearing works but how to make
it work better.
It is a forum for meticulously thought scientific and philosophical
debate, not for people who like to assert the unassertable as RR just
did.
Those who are in doubt or who are hostile to the whole subject or
who think no one will see through their efforts to cheat at debate, do
not belong in the group.
RR reminded me that those that whine the loudest about not having
their queries answered mostly don't deserve to have them answered.
Anyhow who wishes to discuss tech in a quality forum of seasoned
professionals is welcome to post.
One act of dharma treason though, and they will be asked to leave.
Barring that, I will retro cancel their criminal noise.
I am personally always available to discuss tech, any day after 2pm
607 227 5465.
Homer
> Barbara Schwarz
Barbara loves Marty
Gee, and I wanted to cross post my love postings to the original Marty
to ACT. What a pity that you will object to something as beautiful as
these postings.
Barbara Schwarz
Tom Klemesrud
> a.r.s is a sewer system between dishonest critics who can not
> think,
Homer, if honesty is a issue, then let me ask you again openly: Do you
know Agnes K.(Long) Morgan, (aka Agnes Hadley, "OldTimer", "Doc Morgan")?
Hartley Patterson
> a.r.s is a sewer system between dishonest critics who can not
> think, and Churchies who can not talk, and who mostly haven't a clue
> anyhow.
>
> a.c.t is a technical forum about ideas, not about particular people
> or their behavior in any particular church, nor about events except once
> in a while.
I wouldn't put it such offensive and insulting terms, but it is correct to
say that there is little that can sensibly be crossposted. ARS is mostly
about current events and ACT is not. In both cases the serious discussions
moved elsewhere anyway.
If I was in your place I'd be more severe on crossposts - anything more
than two NG is almost certainly trolls, spam, noise or quickly becomes so.
--
ARS FAQ
Please read before posting
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/faq.htm
ho...@lightlink.com
What business is it of yours who I know or communicate with?
You out to harm them?
Old Timer used to post long ago to the public forums.
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
> ho...@lightlink.com says:
>
>> a.r.s is a sewer system between dishonest critics who can not
>> think, and Churchies who can not talk, and who mostly haven't a clue
>> anyhow.
>>
>> a.c.t is a technical forum about ideas, not about particular people
>> or their behavior in any particular church, nor about events except once
>> in a while.
>
> I wouldn't put it such offensive and insulting terms, but it is correct to
Why, what's wrong with calling shit shit?
Keep the sewage in the sewer system I always say :)
a.r.s makes for good quaratine and containment of idiots bank
reacting towards each other, its upside is that it brings much of the
shit in the Church to light.
Critics serve a purpose up to a point.
> If I was in your place I'd be more severe on crossposts - anything more
> than two NG is almost certainly trolls, spam, noise or quickly becomes so.
Yeah that's the way it used to be.
However I appreciated the cross post of the Aaron Saxton material made
by Phil Scott, a.c.t's mascot dharma criminal and local shit machine.
So I am a bit torn.
Homer
>
> --
> ARS FAQ
> Please read before posting
> http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/faq.htm
>
--
Tom Klemesrud
> Tom Klemesrud <tom...@netscape.delete.net> wrote:
>> ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>>
>>> a.r.s is a sewer system between dishonest critics who can not
>>> think,
>> Homer, if honesty is a issue, then let me ask you again openly: Do you
>> know Agnes K.(Long) Morgan, (aka Agnes Hadley, "OldTimer", "Doc Morgan")?
>
> You work for Eugene Ingram these days?
>
> What business is it of yours who I know or communicate with?
>
> You out to harm them?
>
> Old Timer used to post long ago to the public forums.
It is my business because she, along with "-AB-" (Thomas Gerard
Rummelhart) conspired to defame me right here on ARS in 1995. You even
chimed in on the thread "set up of sysop - data."
You of course know Agnes Hadley.
I found it weird during that time that Washington Post reporter Richard
Leiby thought, and expressed to me, that the Bloodybutt operation may
not have been from the "church", but from the "freezone."
That would be your group, OldTimer, and perhaps Rummelhart too, as a
plant in Incomm; according to the theory forwarded.
Homer, I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, but there ware
people now who believe there is more to the Incomm operation than meets
the eye.
ho...@lightlink.com
>
> It is my business because she, along with "-AB-" (Thomas Gerard
> Rummelhart) conspired to defame me right here on ARS in 1995.
OK, first thing you gotta understand, although that whole incident
was very big to you, I can barely remember any of it, for one I didn't
follow it at the time except superficially, and I am surprised you think
I may have taken any serious part in any part of it. If you wish to
post old postings I made on the subject, you might refresh my memory.
Certainly I was never any part of any effort to defame you or
anyone else on the net. I have always tried to remain pan determined
and not take sides in the game of asshole vs asshole on a.r.s.
I remember vaguely the term 'AB', I do not remember Rummlehart and
don't know who he is. I do not remember any of the sequence events of
what happened or who was involved.
>You even
> chimed in on the thread "set up of sysop - data."
>
> You of course know Agnes Hadley.
Actually the name does not presently ring a bell, although I can't
swear that 15 years ago I didn't know her. Again perhaps you should
refresh my memory.
If she is supposed to be Old Timer, Old Timer never let on what her
real name was.
You should repost anything you wish about the matter, but do it to
a.c.t, because I am out of a.r.s after this.
> I found it weird during that time that Washington Post reporter Richard
> Leiby thought, and expressed to me, that the Bloodybutt operation may
> not have been from the "church", but from the "freezone."
Sorry, I didn't follow the thing well enough to know or remember
now what was going on. Certainly *I* had no contact with anyone that
was out to get you. Although many might think I was or am the leader of
the freezone, nothing could be further from the truth. The german
freezone had their web page on our system for a while, maybe they still
do, and I agreed with their rights to use scienologie in their domain
name.
Beyond that, I have never met any of them, haven't talked to any of
them for years, and only talked intermittently to people on both sides
of the war. I have stayed in contact with Enid Vien who was my auditor
for a while. Everything else is all in the record of a.c.t. or a.r.s.
> That would be your group, OldTimer, and perhaps Rummelhart too, as a
> plant in Incomm; according to the theory forwarded.
What group? I am not a member of any group. Oh yeah I also helped
Dennis for a while by paying for his ISP account.
No clue who Rummelhart is.
Never heard of Agnes K Long.
You seem to miss how alone I have kept myself during most of that
time. There were private mailing lists with various old timers on it,
but that is all gone. Basically they all bored me to tears and I
expunged them from my life.
They all started to hide behind private lists, and I saw the evil
of that, and so I killed my own private lists, and kept everything
public.
Everyone on the private lists was a poster on the public lists,
that's how they got invited to the private lists. Even some Churchies
at the time were subscribed.
> Homer, I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, but there ware
> people now who believe there is more to the Incomm operation than meets
> the eye.
Sorry, I was not paying attention during the Incomm thing, I don't
remember it at all.
I am totally surprised that you think I had anything to do with the
AB affair, or that any freezoner would attack you for being a critic.
Everyone in the freezone thinks I am completely crazy, certainly
they would have no interest in being in cahoots with me on anything.
The freezone that I knew was way too busy being attacked to be
mocking up their own attacks. And sorry, I am completely clueless as to
why they would have wanted to attack you anyhow. Erlich and Lerma I
remember for posting stuff, and Fishman and Stacey, but what was your
role?
And why would the freezone care?
I like the critics, even though I think they are all shitheads, the
true disbelievers are just as dangerous in the long run as the true
believers. But I also think the true believers are dangerous as hell,
and THEY have the OT materials behind them, the disbelievers don't.
Thus having the operating manual on dramatizing, the Churchies are
better dramatizers.
So if there is going to be a war between the two, I am betting on
the true believers.
But me I don't take sides in other's wars, I helped both sides by
providing the means of communication and the education of how to use
them.
My intent is to even the playing field, not play the game.
In fact it would be treason to my purpose to endager myself by
taking sides or playing covert ops on either side as you suggest. It
isn't my war, and the last thing I would want to do is get involved by
taking sides.
If you are feeling paranoid about the freezone and me, you are
welcome to talk with me privately, perhaps I can put your fears at rest.
You will need to debrief me on everything that happened, because God
forgive me, its all a non event in my mind in present time.
You gotta remember that when I formed a.c.t I pretty much stopped
reading a.r.s, it was just so much sewage to me, I could never
figure out who was who, who the bad guys were, who the good guys were,
and after a while I stopped caring.
So I was only peripherally aware of who did what to whom, and whose
side who was on. I still don't know who is who when I look through the
group now. So you might as well consider I took off for Mars in 1991
after the formation of a.c.t, and just returned. Although I did make
various posts to a.r.s through the period.
No one here that I know is covertly conspiring against anyone in
the Church.
My intent is solely to provide competition to the Church and let
those who wish to leave know where they can find it. Or if they wish to
stay, I counsel them in the direction of making it possible to do so
while maintaining their integrity amongst the 180 degree reverse vector
insanity.
I remain pro Scientology, pro Church and pro Hubbard, although I
have first dibs on his neck, its the *PEOPLE* that I have a problem
with, both on the outside and the inside, and its not even management
that bothers me so much as the utterly incompetent tech terminals.
And that goes equally for the freezone.
Monkeys with E-meters, one and all, including Hubbard.
Answer to a.c.t as I am out of here. Or call me 607 227 5465
any time after 2pm EST.
Hartley Patterson
> Why, what's wrong with calling shit shit?
I suppose if you never read ARS you miss the good stuff, which is what the
cult intends.
> Critics serve a purpose up to a point.
Are you capable of holding up the mirror? For critics, who also believe
they are correct, Scientologists opposed to the Church serve a purpose.
> So I am a bit torn.
To read ARS requires a killfile, it's not something that can be dipped
into now and then. That's the price we pay for being unmoderated. There
are plenty of message boards now with varying degrees of moderation that
look at Scientology from different angles, so ARS and ACT aren't necessary
any more.
--
FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
Religious Technology Center
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Dennis L Erlich
>Oh yeah I also helped
>Dennis for a while by paying for his ISP account.
I am forever grateful to Homer (even tho I think he's .....) for
providing me with a proper internet account for a couple of years
during the cult's suit and harassment.
> Erlich and Lerma I
>remember for posting stuff, and Fishman and Stacey, but what was your
>role?
Klem's was the bulletin board I originally posted through in 1994
before Homer supplied me with a Primenet internet account.
> And why would the freezone care?
The question is why would ~anyone~ care?
D
---------------------------------------
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire.
Tom Klemesrud
> ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>
>> Oh yeah I also helped
>> Dennis for a while by paying for his ISP account.
>
> I am forever grateful to Homer (even tho I think he's .....) for
> providing me with a proper internet account for a couple of years
> during the cult's suit and harassment.
>
>> Erlich and Lerma I
>> remember for posting stuff, and Fishman and Stacey, but what was your
>> role?
>
> Klem's was the bulletin board I originally posted through in 1994
> before Homer supplied me with a Primenet internet account.
That must be a lie. When you did your admitted intentional copyright
infringements, it was not Primenet that got also sued for your actions,
it was me, Tom Klemesrud.
Are you saying that you had two accounts, one to set me up with a
lawsuit and the other for legal use?
>
>> And why would the freezone care?
>
> The question is why would ~anyone~ care?
Everybody cares because issues unrelated to you in RTC v. Netcom
provided ISP's a safe harbor from liability for the illegal conduct of
their users--like you. Homer should care about this because he owns an
ISP, or did. He didn't have to pull the plug on it because of something
I did. I doubt even with his failing memory, this escaped Homer.
Why would the freezone care? Maybe a mole with root access to the
genuine data of the church, who is said to have "backed-up" all of L.
Ron Hubbard's writing without Incomm authorization; might be considered
an asset for the freezone?
Homer, your reply was tl;dr. Perhaps the continental justice chief can
help you get the genuine, authorized technology that will help you with
your valence jumping and morbid verbosity in comm. The right tech might
be able to help your memory too.
DamOTclese
in open public forums. The INCOMM leak did not stop in 1995, nor did it
end until 1999 coincident with the Sporgery attacks ending and
Scientology's ringleaders know that it wasn't just one "Marcabian
infiltrator" diverting evidence to the outside. The identities of the
volunteer(s) and the law enforcement infiltrator(s) are *still* being
sought by the crime syndicate, their lives are in danger if they're
identified.
---
10-year-old boy rejects Republicanism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbfs0EVsHbs
Does belief in astrology cause insanity? http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm
ho...@lightlink.com
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
I have now read the -AB- posting.
The Dan Garvin report claims that the posting by -AB- was stolen
from Linda Hamel's folder on an INCOMM computer, investigations aide for
the Church.
0.) Is that true?
1.) Who wrote that report? Linda Hamel?
2.) Who interviewed the victim Linda W that led to the report?
3.) Why was the report leaked by -AB-?
4.) Why would the Church do an op on Tom, then have a super secret
file LYING about what happened? Usually super secret files tell the
truth.
5.) Was Linda W actually taken to the hospital during the later
event? Were the hospital records looked at?
ho...@lightlink.com
Dennis L Erlich <info...@informer.org> wrote:
> Klem's was the bulletin board I originally posted through in 1994
> before Homer supplied me with a Primenet internet account.
>
>> And why would the freezone care?
>
> The question is why would ~anyone~ care?
Also insulting to Klem and the suffering he went through.
Finding out why anyone would care, would establish motive, which
would help zero in on the issue.
I take it, it is not accepted that AB was simply a misguided Scner
that took it upon himself, acting alone, to help the Church by making a
posting?
I once asked you a question, and you have had time enough to think
on it. Perhaps you would honor me with an answer.
If everyone obeyed all laws all the time, would the world be a
better place?
ho...@lightlink.com
Tom Klemesrud <nob...@invaild.invalid> wrote:
>> Klem's was the bulletin board I originally posted through in 1994
>> before Homer supplied me with a Primenet internet account.
>
> That must be a lie. When you did your admitted intentional copyright
> infringements, it was not Primenet that got also sued for your actions,
> it was me, Tom Klemesrud.
Sanity is being able to tell who your friends are.
I did in fact pay for an internet account for Erlich, but this was
WAY AFTER the netcom affair, he was broke and needed access, I believe
you had disbarred him, don't know, but he was already under attack from
the Church, in legal suits etc.
> Are you saying that you had two accounts, one to set me up with a
> lawsuit and the other for legal use?
> Everybody cares because issues unrelated to you in RTC v. Netcom
> provided ISP's a safe harbor from liability for the illegal conduct of
> their users--like you. Homer should care about this because he owns an
> ISP, or did. He didn't have to pull the plug on it because of something
> I did. I doubt even with his failing memory, this escaped Homer.
were sitting on the edge of our seats on the matter, and the remailer
wars that happened afterwards with the continued postings of Fishman and
NOTS etc, and the Freezone Bible people, and the repeated repostings
through our news servers of the same, made a very uneasy truce between
us and Kobrin and her later heirs.
Offering remailer services was one of scariest things I ever did.
> Why would the freezone care? Maybe a mole with root access to the
> genuine data of the church, who is said to have "backed-up" all of L.
> Ron Hubbard's writing without Incomm authorization; might be considered
> an asset for the freezone?
of contact with many of the different Freezone Groups, you are probably
unaware of just how much contempt most of these people hold Hubbard in,
and his tech. They have BIG egos, and they wanted to rewrite it all
from the ground up.
Getting into illegal ops with the Church was just not how the one's
I know think. But then I tended to give off an aura of 'I don't want to
know what you are up to.' and I would therefore have been the last one
to know anything about such an op should there have been one.
> Homer, your reply was tl;dr.
> Perhaps the continental justice chief can
> help you get the genuine, authorized technology that will help you with
> your valence jumping and morbid verbosity in comm. The right tech might
> be able to help your memory too.
Sanity is knowing who your friends are.
Tom Klemesrud
> from Linda Hamel's folder on an INCOMM computer, investigations aide for
> the Church.
>
and Gene Ingram
>
> 2.) Who interviewed the victim, Linda W?
Gene Ingram
> 3.) Why was the report leaked by -AB-?
that is the question. Your friend Old Timer put him up to it, and
coordinated with him, (Rummelhart) and another anon called "Vega."
Perhaps this was Mary Sue's old GO group trying to frame the church with
the operation...? It is reported that this guy made back-ups of the SIR
libraries, took them to Caltech for what ever purposes that I'm sure you
can imagine, (where he was an alumnus), then brought them back to Incomm
later; among other things.
>
> 4.) Why would the Church do an op on Tom, then have a super secret
> file LYING about what happened? Usually super secret files tell the
> truth.
They were trying to force me to disconnect erlich from the BBS, that is
specifically what Bloodybutt asked for that night. (See Miss
Bloodybutt, or Miss Blood). But, as you say, this whole thing could have
been a false flag operation designed to discredit the church for a Mary
Sue Hubbard take over, or for the egoists at the FZ to discredit OSA.
Bloodybutt said she was from "the Church of Scientology."
>
> 5.) Was Linda W actually taken to the hospital? Were the hospital
> records looked at?
No, the police let her slip off into the night, with only half her
clothes.
http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/surney/
Later, on May 27th 1995 in a second frame up attempt, did she make a big
deal about going to the hospital, after she reported I was stalking her
at a bar in Glendale, CA. There was a big problem with this second
frame up: I was in Iowa, 1500 miles away, for that was the day of my
father's funeral.
>
> Homer
>
This is the wrong newsgroup. This one is about auditing. ARS deals
with admin.
Dennis L Erlich
> Whoa, I take it you two aren't friends any more.
Not since he started putting stink on me with his drunken, paranoid
accusations.
> Sanity is being able to tell who your friends are.
I used to think he was a stand-up guy. Now he's flipped out so much
he thinks I was working for OSA all along in a plot to get HIM.
Bwahaha!
Thinks I'm still on the cult's payroll. Spreads it around like it was
truth. With the help of Lerma and Monica and a few others.
> I did in fact pay for an internet account for Erlich, but this was
>WAY AFTER the netcom affair, he was broke and needed access, I believe
>you had disbarred him, don't know, but he was already under attack from
>the Church, in legal suits etc.
Don't try to confuse Klemi wid da faqs.
>> Are you saying that you had two accounts, one to set me up with a
>> lawsuit and the other for legal use?
>
> You know Tom, a little paranoia goes a LONG WAYS.
I've been dealing with his insane ravings like this for a couple of
years.
>> Everybody cares because issues unrelated to you in RTC v. Netcom
>> provided ISP's a safe harbor from liability for the illegal conduct of
>> their users--like you. Homer should care about this because he owns an
>> ISP, or did. He didn't have to pull the plug on it because of something
>> I did. I doubt even with his failing memory, this escaped Homer.
>
> Absolutely did not escape me, as I said in a previous posting we
>were sitting on the edge of our seats on the matter, and the remailer
>wars that happened afterwards with the continued postings of Fishman and
>NOTS etc, and the Freezone Bible people, and the repeated repostings
>through our news servers of the same, made a very uneasy truce between
>us and Kobrin and her later heirs.
>
> Offering remailer services was one of scariest things I ever did.
I can imagine, Homer.
>> Why would the freezone care? Maybe a mole with root access to the
>> genuine data of the church, who is said to have "backed-up" all of L.
>> Ron Hubbard's writing without Incomm authorization; might be considered
>> an asset for the freezone?
>
> Sure, as I said paranoia goes a long ways. Also not having a lot
>of contact with many of the different Freezone Groups, you are probably
>unaware of just how much contempt most of these people hold Hubbard in,
>and his tech. They have BIG egos, and they wanted to rewrite it all
>from the ground up.
>
> Getting into illegal ops with the Church was just not how the one's
>I know think. But then I tended to give off an aura of 'I don't want to
>know what you are up to.' and I would therefore have been the last one
>to know anything about such an op should there have been one.
>
>> Homer, your reply was tl;dr.
>
> ? Sorry what is tl;dr.
Abrievatalk for "too long;didn't read."
>> Perhaps the continental justice chief can
>> help you get the genuine, authorized technology that will help you with
>> your valence jumping and morbid verbosity in comm. The right tech might
>> be able to help your memory too.
Heh. I guess Klemi tol u!
> Uncalled for.
>
> Sanity is knowing who your friends are.
Klemi ceased being friendly way before I dropped him as a friend.
Homer, strange as he is, I still consider one.
D
Tom Klemesrud
That's Homer's problem; because your legacy is all this, the case, and
your payoff by the church, will be the legacy of a common crook--with
the foresight to know that when Scientology reacts, they would
actionably over-react. But then, that's what "tar baby" is all about.
Tom Klemesrud
> ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>> I did in fact pay for an internet account for Erlich, but this was
>> WAY AFTER the netcom affair, he was broke and needed access, I believe
>> you had disbarred him, don't know, but he was already under attack from
>> the Church, in legal suits etc.
>
> Don't try to confuse Klemi wid da faqs.
In fact Reverend, it is you obfuscating. In your last post on the
thread, you said:
>Klem's was the bulletin board I originally posted through in 1994
>before Homer supplied me with a Primenet internet account.
When in fact you last intentional copyright infringement was through my
BBS on Feb. 26, 1995; days after you appeared in court and was
instructed not to post beyond fair use.
Here is what you wrote the judge:
February 27, 1995, 4:5 PM
To: Hon. Ronald Whyte
From: Dennis L. Erlich
Re: C95-20091
Your Honor,
I just received your Amended TRO and I'm afraid that yesterday morning
prior to reading it, I may have violated the spirit, if not the letter,
of it.
I have endeavored to undo the error by getting the offending post
cancelled through Netcom.
I would not have posted it if I had had your honor's amended order in
my hand. I will not post anything that might be questionable again
until such time as your honor has had an opportunity to rule on
ownership of the material.
My correct mailing and residence address is [omitted], Glendale,
CA 91206. Please do not mail to my place of employment ([omitted],
Glendale, CA).
Once again, my apologies to the court and the plaintiffs for this
error.
Sincerely,
Dennis L. Erlich
in pro per
cc: Thomas Small
ho...@lightlink.com
> ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>> OK, now you guys got me interested.
>>
>> The Dan Garvin report claims that the posting by -AB- was stolen
>> from Linda Hamel's folder on an INCOMM computer, investigations aide for
>> the Church.
>>
>> 1.) Who wrote that report? Linda Hamel?
>
> and Gene Ingram
>
>>
>> 2.) Who interviewed the victim, Linda W?
>
> Gene Ingram
OK, pardon my stupidity here, I really am trying to understand all
this, although I am sure it is way too late to do any good.
SCENARIO ONE,
Linda was an op of the Church, she had her story that she told you
to get into your apartment, but the Church had her cover story that
would eventually be handed to the press, the op script so to speak.
-AB- then leaked it, believing the thing NOT to be an op, and
believing the script to be the truth, hoping to make the Church look
good and you bad. -AB- believed it to be a valid interview when in fact
it was a script prewritten for the op.
-AB- could even have been a puppet of the Church, who used him to
leak the story, even though they wanted it to go public that way in the
first place. Or maybe -AB- just accidentally and innocently preempted
the Church in leaking it early.
Question, if Linda were a Church OP, why would Engram :) have had
to interview her for her side of the story which was a created story by
the Church anyhow?
SCENARIO TWO:
Linda really was who she said she was, you abused her, the Church
found out about it through the internet, got her name and address from
the LAPD, and then interviewed her, and everything is as she claimed it
was on the face of it.
Question, did the IRS admit to sending an agent to talk to you
about the CofS, and am I missing prior history between you and the FEDS
and IRS before the CoS thing ever happened?
You mentioned name dropping by Linda about personel involved in
FED/IRS relations you had had prior. May I ask what that was? In other
words why would you have been on their radar in the first place?
Sorry if these are RTFM questions, I got the whole transcript of
a.r.s but it is hard wading through all the shitheads noise makers,
distractors, derailers, redirectors and confusers.
Not to mention the Churchies and the Critics.
Perhaps there should be an a.r.s.announce...
Just the facts Jack, and no discussion.
THIRD SCENARIO:
Some third party elected Linda W to op you and the Church
simultaneously. Two birds with one stone I always say.
Either that or you were considered collateral damage by people who
didn't care that you were aiding their own cause by allowing Church
doctrine to be broadly disseminated by Erlich.
So Linda and the 3rd party devise a scheme for Linda to approach
you, make it look like you abused her, then have her interviewed by the
church who honestly and innocently took her story to be the honest truth
and put it away for safe keeping until if and when it was needed later.
-AB- then innocently posted it thinking he was doing the right
thing, and not particularly concerned for his own welfare, and putting
way too much trust in remailers.
OR
-AB- was part of the third party group, and was well positioned
inside of INCOMM, but somehow had to know the story was there in the
folders to be leaked. If he didn't come across it accidentally, then he
had to have someone tell him or show him or indicate to him when the
story was available and where to find it. This would indicate that
Linda would have had to report back to the third party after the Engram
interview, so the 3rd party could inform -AB- that the time was at hand.
-AB- then leaked it pitting you against the Church.
Is there any 4th scenario?
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
>
> I used to think he was a stand-up guy. Now he's flipped out so much
> he thinks I was working for OSA all along in a plot to get HIM.
>
> Bwahaha!
>
> Thinks I'm still on the cult's payroll. Spreads it around like it was
> truth. With the help of Lerma and Monica and a few others.
Lerma?
What the fuck. I go away for 10 years to Mars, and I come back and
it's not even the same universe...
Well it's why I don't usually read this group, but the Church is
crumbling now for sure. Within the year others will out, celebrities
etc. PC folders will be posted to the net by the Church and inner
policy will be posted enmasse.
People will see what the game has become and who or what crawls out
of the wood work. We would be lucky if it only be Marcabian operatives.
So to everyone I say,
Just say no to bad clearing...
If you aren't F/Ning, if you are in doubt, if you can't communicate
with anyone on any subject, and by can't I mean no permission, if you
can't think a thought without the police showing up at your door, it is
time for YOU to take responsibility and make it the way it ought to be.
There are lots of people out here who think that auditing is all
bogus, because no one is available to provide clearing that isn't bogus.
ARC breaks and upsets and worry all stem from NO AUDITING.
Think about it.
Then act.
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
> That's Homer's problem; because your legacy is all this, the case, and
> your payoff by the church, will be the legacy of a common crook--with
> the foresight to know that when Scientology reacts, they would
> actionably over-react. But then, that's what "tar baby" is all about.
So Tom I understand this, Dennis was a Churchie and had a war
to fight.
You never were involved, thus you become unwittingly collateral
damage in that war.
You did the right thing though by refusing to kick Dennis off or
remove his postings until the law was changed to make it so.
You are definitely one of the good guys in your war, and I do hope
you can straighten out some of your paranoia about who did what to whom.
Talk to Bernd Lubeck. Google him, he's right there.
ho...@lightlink.com
I am not strange.
Me and thee are both God in carnation, who is a multi I am being.
We chose to choose, and we chose to choose more, and we chose to
not know we chose.
We did this for fun, thrill and romance, the aesthetics to
suffering. The desire to get lost so we could find our way home.
The sole purpose of auditing is to recover the choice one made to
not know one chose on any matter of import, at which time one can take
back the choice and then choose otherwise.
One can only become stuck with choices one chose to pretend one
didn't choose.
Finding a workable auditing approach is a non trivial pursuit, and
I have no clue about Hubbard, but he made an ego-alloyed mess of it.
For those that don't believe they chose to not know they chose,
well they chose to not know they chose, eh?
It would be improper to ruin their game of lost and never found,
until they want it so.
Tom Klemesrud
> Tom Klemesrud <nob...@invaild.invalid> wrote:
>> That's Homer's problem; because your legacy is all this, the case, and
>> your payoff by the church, will be the legacy of a common crook--with
>> the foresight to know that when Scientology reacts, they would
>> actionably over-react. But then, that's what "tar baby" is all about.
>
> So Tom I understand this, Dennis was a Churchie and had a war
> to fight.
>
> You never were involved, thus you become unwittingly collateral
> damage in that war.
>
> You did the right thing though by refusing to kick Dennis off or
> remove his postings until the law was changed to make it so.
>
> You are definitely one of the good guys in your war, and I do hope
> you can straighten out some of your paranoia about who did what to whom.
I am not going to accept the word "paranoia" as the right word. More
like trying to "imagine" what may have happened in order to match it up
with reality in order to solve it. Calling someone paranoid is
impugning their character. I wish for instance that our FBI had more
imagination when Al Queda was about to attack the Trade Center, or the
FBI had more imagination before the Ft. Hood mass killings. They did
have plenty of information about both incidents.
>
> Talk to Bernd Lubeck. Google him, he's right there.
>
> Homer
>
Maybe...I'd be talking about "Agnes Hadley" and Tom Rummelhart.
You know Homer, one good thing about my defense in RTC v. Netcom was
that I had insurance. The defense had money, and we had
investigators--former FBI, to establish a unclean hands defense from the
scientologists.
Tom Klemesrud
> Tom Klemesrud <nob...@invaild.invalid> wrote:
>> That's Homer's problem; because your legacy is all this, the case, and
>> your payoff by the church, will be the legacy of a common crook--with
>> the foresight to know that when Scientology reacts, they would
>> actionably over-react. But then, that's what "tar baby" is all about.
>
> So Tom I understand this, Dennis was a Churchie and had a war
> to fight.
>
> You never were involved, thus you become unwittingly collateral
> damage in that war.
>
> You did the right thing though by refusing to kick Dennis off or
> remove his postings until the law was changed to make it so.
>
> You are definitely one of the good guys in your war, and I do hope
> you can straighten out some of your paranoia about who did what to whom.
>
> Talk to Bernd Lubeck. Google him, he's right there.
>
> Homer
>
I find this really interesting:
http://andygreen44.tripod.com/index.html
The Freie Zone e.V.(Ron's Org) and the German Office for the Protection
of the Constitution
&
The Role of Bernd Luebeck
&
Max & Erika Hauri
"Indeed, members of the Free Zone have now and then worked with state
organs to observe the Church of Scientology and their actions."(Ref:
www.freezone.de/ro/german/antworten.html)
"In fact members of the Freezone are working with various state
institutions that are conducting surveillance of the Church of
Scientology to investigate its wrongdoings." (Excerpt from the booklet
FREE ZONE SWITZERLAND The Alternative Scientology Movement, by Ron�s Org
Switzerland
"The OPC recruits its �star witnesses" against the Scientology
organization from the Free Zone. Not only does the OPC recruit in the
Free Zone, they also try to get their undercover men trained and cared
for by Freezone members; one even went so far as to recruit star
witnesses for the ominous Bavarian Study from the Free Zone." (Excerpt
from the booklet [Renate Hartwig: Ref: directreport Nr.1, 2003])
***
Homer, wouldn't it be a hoot if "-AB-" was a German intelligence agent,
with root access to INCOMM....
In this case the leaked document, might have been a warning to me about
how they were going to come at me legally.
Maybe I owe "-AB-" a thank you?
Dennis L Erlich
yhn
>> I used to think he was a stand-up guy. Now he's flipped out so much
>> he thinks I was working for OSA all along in a plot to get HIM.
>> Bwahaha!
>> Thinks I'm still on the cult's payroll. Spreads it around like it was
>> truth. With the help of Lerma and Monica and a few others.
homer
> Lerma?
> What the fuck. I go away for 10 years to Mars, and I come back and
>it's not even the same universe...
The more it changes, the more it stays the same.
D
--------------------------
"They don't pay what they owe
When they have the cash flow
They don't care." - Mark Knopfler
Dennis L Erlich
Android Cat
> What the fuck. I go away for 10 years to Mars, and I come back and
> it's not even the same universe...
You must be new here.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Maureen
> Switzerland
>
> "The OPC recruits its “star witnesses" against the Scientology
> organization from the Free Zone. Not only does the OPC recruit in the
> Free Zone, they also try to get their undercover men trained and cared
> for by Freezone members; one even went so far as to recruit star
> witnesses for the ominous Bavarian Study from the Free Zone." (Excerpt
> from the booklet [Renate Hartwig: Ref: directreport Nr.1, 2003])
> ***
>
> Homer, wouldn't it be a hoot if "-AB-" was a German intelligence agent,
> with root access to INCOMM....
>
> In this case the leaked document, might have been a warning to me about
> how they were going to come at me legally.
>
> Maybe I owe "-AB-" a thank you?
Whoa!
ho...@lightlink.com
>> You are definitely one of the good guys in your war, and I do hope
>> you can straighten out some of your paranoia about who did what to whom.
>
> I am not going to accept the word "paranoia" as the right word. More
Yes, sorry. I see a lot of wild paranoia on this group, in
particular when someone is opping others, and there is an inability to
find the correct source, the imagination starts to point everywhere.
It can wear us down being unable to know who are enemies are!
> Maybe...I'd be talking about "Agnes Hadley" and Tom Rummelhart.
>
> You know Homer, one good thing about my defense in RTC v. Netcom was
> that I had insurance. The defense had money, and we had
> investigators--former FBI, to establish a unclean hands defense from the
> scientologists.
Yeah good.
ho...@lightlink.com
> Homer, wouldn't it be a hoot if "-AB-" was a German intelligence agent,
> with root access to INCOMM....
>
> In this case the leaked document, might have been a warning to me about
> how they were going to come at me legally.
>
> Maybe I owe "-AB-" a thank you?
Well frankly, it seems you might owe him a thankyou anyhow, even if
his intentions were simply pro Churchie, he at least gave you data that
showed you what was coming anyhow, right?
Anyhow please keep in mind that when the German Free Zone uses the
term Free Zone, they mean them and them alone, Capt Bill's group, as
delineated in the Sector 9 series which is filled with possible libel
against various people by Capt Bill, so don't no body post it please.
The german Free Zone does not recognize the generic use of the term
freezone by the rest of the world which of course is a contradiction in
their very own philosophy.
And the other freezoners don't want much to do with Ron's Org, as
they tend to be as fanactical as the Church, believing as they do that
Ron gave the hat to Capt Bill.
Thus the german Free Zone is just another 'We own you zone' to many
of its droid followers. You will however find Bernd and Flemming Funch
and the rest of the higher level OT's there to be quite friendly and
affable. At least they were back in the 1995 days.
Who knows what tech will do to you over time though ...
No doubt the tech that creates fanatical followers is being looked
at as a war weapon by various agencies.
And anything that comes out of Germany, well you just know it's
going to be fun.
ho...@lightlink.com
Nah, I am straight Hubbardian orthodoxy on the tech side.
I just put it into words that others can understand and then
reject with full responsibility :)
Homer
>
> D
Tom Klemesrud
I can't remember where I heard Ingram was involved in the interview. It
might have came from Dan Garvin saying that Ingram dictated the document
of his interview to Linda Hamel, that was faxed to the LA times, that
seems to be what -AB- saw. -AB- probably did and keyword search of my
name...I need to befriend him....for he probably has more info.
Scenerio one is the most likely.
What I found really interesting if you search thoroughly, is the LAPD
detective assigned to the case knew that the BBS enterprise, "Clearwood
Data Services" had a Bank of America account, while I did all my
personal banking at Wells Fargo. He knew this and asked about it on
Martin Luther King's birthday, a federal holiday--(he was reqauired to
work that day), two days after the Bloodybutt Saturday night attack.
The point is, he had to be provided with that information by a third
party that knew--like OSA. (Now I know why the Concerned Bussinessmen
of America" and ABLE front, donated $100.00 to the BBS). This
discrepancy was pointed out to me by Al Ristuccia of the IRS CID saying
they (IRS) could not even have gotten my bank records that quickly with
their pocket subpoena power. Somebody in the background was pimping the
cops, even though they did not have Bloodybutt's address or correct
phone number.
The next day, the DA rejected the charges.
>
> SCENARIO TWO:
>
> Linda really was who she said she was, you abused her, the Church
> found out about it through the internet, got her name and address from
> the LAPD, and then interviewed her, and everything is as she claimed it
> was on the face of it.
>
> Question, did the IRS admit to sending an agent to talk to you
> about the CofS, and am I missing prior history between you and the FEDS
> and IRS before the CoS thing ever happened?
>
> You mentioned name dropping by Linda about personel involved in
> FED/IRS relations you had had prior. May I ask what that was? In other
> words why would you have been on their radar in the first place?
I was a confidential informant to the IRS in the 1980's, friend of
Michael Flynn and Gerry Armstrong, and gave them information about the
MCCS fraud on the IRS. I was interviewed by IRS CID agents and in
contact with them throughout this time.
When I reported to them this Bloodybutt attack, they sent their
INSPECTORS to check the 911 records, went to the Casting Office bar, and
even did a search of the bar's dumpster for the phony IRS ID she
presented. They believed my story after gathering the data, and said
that if I saw Miss Bloodybutt--she gave a phony telephone number to
police--that I should tell her that they wanted to talk to her.
It was the IRS CID people that she mentioned, and said that she worked
with. Specifically, AL Lipkin, Al Ristuccia, and Dan Rocha.
This would be the possible theory that -AB- was german intelligence,
covertly gathering data. People don't mention his wife Annemarie was
also an INCOMM enployee as "Ops and Usage Sec"
http://www.fzglobal.org/hgbstaff1994.htm
Ted Mayett
If I've crossed posted to act by not paying attention, I truly do
apologize.
BTW, IMO, this is an awesome response!
>Barbara loves Marty <barbaralov...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What is the problem with cross posting, Homer? ACT is Scientology-
>> related.
>>
>> Barbara Schwarz
>
> If they are so related, then there should be only one group.
>
> a.r.s is a sewer system between dishonest critics who can not
>think, and Churchies who can not talk, and who mostly haven't a clue
>anyhow.
>
> a.c.t is a technical forum about ideas, not about particular people
>or their behavior in any particular church, nor about events except once
>in a while.
>
> We welcome honest questions from people who are not dharma
>criminals, hyenas, jackals, hecklers, card carrying meatballs, prove it
>cases, or non serious truth seekers.
>
> The issues of a.c.t are not whether clearing works but how to make
>it work better.
>
> It is a forum for meticulously thought scientific and philosophical
>debate, not for people who like to assert the unassertable as RR just
>did.
>
> Those who are in doubt or who are hostile to the whole subject or
>who think no one will see through their efforts to cheat at debate, do
>not belong in the group.
>
> RR reminded me that those that whine the loudest about not having
>their queries answered mostly don't deserve to have them answered.
>
> Anyhow who wishes to discuss tech in a quality forum of seasoned
>professionals is welcome to post.
>
> One act of dharma treason though, and they will be asked to leave.
>
> Barring that, I will retro cancel their criminal noise.
>
> I am personally always available to discuss tech, any day after 2pm
>607 227 5465.
>
> Homer
>
>> Barbara Schwarz
--
Ted Mayett
Critical information regarding Scientology
http://www.solitarytrees.net
Ted Mayett
>ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
> Dennis L Erlich <info...@informer.org> wrote:
>> Klem's was the bulletin board I originally posted through in 1994
>> before Homer supplied me with a Primenet internet account.
>>
>>> And why would the freezone care?
>>
>> The question is why would ~anyone~ care?
>
> Glib.
>
> Also insulting to Klem and the suffering he went through.
>
Please stop attacking Dennis.
Maureen
> Tom Klemesrud <nob...@invaild.invalid> wrote:
> >> You are definitely one of the good guys in your war, and I do hope
> >> you can straighten out some of your paranoia about who did what to whom.
>
> > I am not going to accept the word "paranoia" as the right word. More
>
> Yes, sorry. I see a lot of wild paranoia on this group, in
> particular when someone is opping others, and there is an inability to
> find the correct source, the imagination starts to point everywhere.
>
> It can wear us down being unable to know who are enemies are!
The use of the 'Dear Alice' TR is one way to make people, 'unable'
Consider that i can be used to some degree to 'make people say things
they might not other wise say.'
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/confusion-technique.htm
(scroll down past the film, etc..)
Maureen