I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for at least several days if not longer.
The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an expell-declare is likely.
I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I had with them. This fact.
When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within the system.
My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt this!".
It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM THEM!" and leaving.
I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend give me all these references to read about anti social personalities and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to suppressive groups.
So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, "Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I was not nice about it. I refused.
I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to task on things.
A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it "my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it EVER was here.
Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a couple weeks or so ago.
At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
Wonder what kind of effective blow against which enemy your (past) org might want you to do?
Interesting that the org staff thought the Hubbard directive on staying connected to suppressive persons etc. was more important than the Hubbard directives on open and free communication.
Post the actual declare if/when you get it, should be an interesting read.
In <40f7d2ce.0109290815.1822c...@posting.google.com>, Fluffygirl wrote: > I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I just > got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I will not > be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for at least > several days if not longer.
> The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and connection > to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking > to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled > unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be > real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But > basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an > expell-declare is likely.
> I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with CofS > and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I had > with them. This fact.
> When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark raving > bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up the Org, > was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and asked her if > she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the internet. She > told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
> After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I > started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I was > quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd always > been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free Zoners, > and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane ones!) was > true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I then decided > that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that these > occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. But I > still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within the > system.
> My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly > meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a > very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I was > on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said she > wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until she > called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to say > sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the week! > Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if I ever > wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and she'd be > happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt this!".
> It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I > started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA contacted > the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting match in my > living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM THEM!" and > leaving.
> I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. I > did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal with > OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone there > who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails announcing my > intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated by another email > that I'd take this silence as assent.
> Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend > give me all these references to read about anti social personalities and > so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed my > friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
> Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
> August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the > minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My friend > and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did most of > the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. He > brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see them > infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do with > rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which one > lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and something > he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get sarcastic and > rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to the floor. So I > started reading them aloud. They said "This is the reference we are > going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to suppressive groups.
> So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No > one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband when > he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of yelling. > Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
> They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I > said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" and > gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, "Well, you > know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm already). " > and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he just now > changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
> It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask > for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. > Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
> I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I > was not nice about it. I refused.
> I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as > Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. I > decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would > have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to just > hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been doing > so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc folders, etc, > but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
> I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes > taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to task > on things.
> A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it > "my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black and > white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it EVER > was here.
> Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to > see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to make > 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very sweet. > But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff pieces on > social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to distract me > from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
> We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
> Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a > list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash > paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a couple > weeks or so ago.
> At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
> More later.
--
-- Scientology's gate is down. -- Canadian Scientology information is now at: http://xenu.ca/
I have still never been officially declared. Neither has Arnie. We are still waiting. Its not for lack of effort on our part. -- Elizabeth Ann Cox aka, Bunnyann Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
> Wow fluffy... congratulations!! Or should I say condolances? :-/
> I've been wonder for quite a while now, how a CoS member could > criticize the church (as you've been doing) and not get kicked out. > Maybe they changed their ways or they are just really comm-laggy. I > guess we know which one now.... :-)
> Welcome to the wog world! Or freezone, as it may be.
> >I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I > >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I > >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for > >at least several days if not longer.
> >The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and > >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> >Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking > >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled > >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be > >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But > >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an > >expell-declare is likely.
> >I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with > >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I > >had with them. This fact.
> >When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark > >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up > >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and > >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the > >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
> >After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I > >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I > >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd > >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free > >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane > >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I > >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that > >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. > >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within > >the system.
> >My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly > >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a > >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I > >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said > >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until > >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to > >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the > >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if > >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and > >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt > >this!".
> >It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I > >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA > >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting > >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM > >THEM!" and leaving.
> >I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. > >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal > >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone > >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails > >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated > >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
> >Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend > >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities > >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed > >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
> >Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
> >August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the > >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My > >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did > >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. > >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see > >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do > >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which > >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and > >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get > >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to > >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the > >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to > >suppressive groups.
> >So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No > >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband > >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of > >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
> >They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I > >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" > >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, > >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm > >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he > >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
> >It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask > >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. > >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
> >I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I > >was not nice about it. I refused.
> >I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as > >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. > >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would > >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to > >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been > >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc > >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
> >I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes > >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to > >task on things.
> >A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it > >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black > >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it > >EVER was here.
> >Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to > >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to > >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very > >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff > >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to > >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
> >We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
> >Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a > >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash > >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a > >couple weeks or so ago.
> >At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
> >More later.
> -- > Church of Scientology does not want you to see this website: > www.xenu.net
amafluffyg...@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl) wrote: >I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
I saw many people reduced to incoherent babbling, stripping off clothes, crawling around on the ground, banging heads, limbs and other body parts against furniture and walls, barking, losing all sense of one's identity and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
--Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
I'm an OT.--Lisa McPherson
If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists posting on the Internet every few days, we'll just run the SP's right off the system. It will be quite simple, actually.
amafluffyg...@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl) wrote: >They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled.
Well, that's Scientology's freedom for you, Fluffs.
You're only as free as far as the bOrg control extends, and as we all know, Scientology has no power around here.
You've always told it the way you see it, and I admire that.
S --- "The Church of Scientology is as generous as the members are stupid. Constant giving is the price of membership, nothing monetary rolls downhill. No disaster so great, no human suffering so profound that it causes money to roll downhill." - Ted Mayett
Which is not an enviable position in which to be in. All the best, Claire. I know it hurts. You will find that you don't miss the church, you don't miss many things. You do miss those you thought were your friends. You worry for them, and you hurt for them because you know they pay a price. But there is nothing you can do to help them. You can only hope for the best for them; as I hope for the best for the two of you. -- Elizabeth Ann Cox aka, Bunnyann Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
> >I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I > >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I > >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for > >at least several days if not longer.
> >The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and > >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> I saw > many people > reduced to > incoherent babbling, > stripping off clothes, > crawling around on the ground, > banging heads, limbs and other body parts > against furniture and walls, > barking, > losing all sense of one's identity > and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
> --Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
> I'm an OT.--Lisa McPherson
> If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists > posting on the Internet every few days, > we'll just run the SP's right off the system. > It will be quite simple, actually.
Seriously, I've always thought you were genuine even when you were posting party line material. You showed a lot of strength and the behind the scenes testimonial below was real interesting. The Church showed it's true colors - if the officials you describe below had any sense at all, they'd have realized that you were one of the best representations of a Scientologist on this forum.
> I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I > just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I > will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for > at least several days if not longer.
> The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and > connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking > to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled > unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be > real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But > basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an > expell-declare is likely.
> I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with > CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I > had with them. This fact.
> When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark > raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up > the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and > asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the > internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
> After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I > started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I > was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd > always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free > Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane > ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I > then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that > these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. > But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within > the system.
> My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly > meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a > very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I > was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said > she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until > she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to > say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the > week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if > I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and > she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt > this!".
> It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I > started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA > contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting > match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM > THEM!" and leaving.
> I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. > I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal > with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone > there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails > announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated > by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
> Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend > give me all these references to read about anti social personalities > and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed > my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
> Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
> August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the > minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My > friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did > most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. > He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see > them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do > with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which > one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and > something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get > sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to > the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the > reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to > suppressive groups.
> So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No > one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband > when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of > yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
> They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I > said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" > and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, > "Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm > already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he > just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
> It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask > for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. > Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
> I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I > was not nice about it. I refused.
> I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as > Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. > I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would > have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to > just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been > doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc > folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
> I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes > taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to > task on things.
> A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it > "my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black > and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it > EVER was here.
> Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to > see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to > make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very > sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff > pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to > distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
> We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
> Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a > list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash > paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a > couple weeks or so ago.
> At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
> More later.
________________________________________________________________________ Protect your privacy! - Get Freedom 2.0 at http://www.freedom.net
A long time ago, back when you were still posting the party line, before you were really listening to what was being said here, I suggested that a good way for you to discover the true nature of Scientology was to go in and question L. Ron Hubbard's writings or biography. Had you done so, you would have already experienced what you're about to encounter. Now, hopefully, they'll leave you alone. Had you never posted to ARS and just quietly left, they probably would have. Of course, had you never found ARS, you'd probably still be in. Welp, now you're declared. Had you stayed in and undergone heavy processing for years and years, you would have been deClaired, reduced to the programmed ronbots we see displayed here to our sorrow.
AAAnyways, it's time for the Official ARSCC Way to Security briefing. Policy will not allow them to let you alone. Therefore, it will be a good idea for you and John to take some measures to cover your asses.(CYA)
You've read this before, I'm sure. Get a crosscut shredder and use it on all docs if you don't have one already. Especially shred anything with friends' addresses on it.
Password protect all accounts if you haven't done so. Bank, utilities, what have you.
Don't leave anything in your car that you would not wish the cult to see. Not even for a second!
Get a good burglar alarm.
Inform your neighbors and ask them to keep an eye out for strange cars, lurkers, trashcan divers. If your neighborhood gets DA fliers distributed, use that as an excuse to counter with information as to what the heck is going on and why.
Don't leave your pets outdoors when you're gone.
Be leery of new associations, especially friendly ones who seem to have an unnatural desire to know you better and be your best friend.
Keep in mind that at any given time, you are being watched and conduct yourself accordingly. It's a pain in the butt, true. But you may get to like it.
Beware of strange plants that appear in your garden overnight.
In a way, I'm sorry this happened to you, but it was inevitable. The cult isn't about freedom, self improvement, or high sounding ideals. It's about money. They say that stuff to suck good, well-meaning people into their maw. That's why they expelled you, in part. You bought into the idealistic claptrap they dished up, and the last thing they really want is honest, forthright people cluttering up the place.
I wish you and John all the best. Watch your backs.
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things to damage its own reputation." -Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as Scientology." -ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign: terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide." -Chris Leithiser
in message <40f7d2ce.0109290815.1822c...@posting.google.com> amafluffyg...@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl) wrote in thread "My Expell/Declare", on 29 Sep 2001 09:15:46 -0700, :
You always struck me as *FAR* too sane to remain stuck in $cientology very long.
You proved it!
Welcome to the Free World!
WELCOME 2 ACTUALITY!
THANK YOU FOR CHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW!
REBOOT YOUR MIND! . . . DO UCP AND SEE!
O --- ) \
Konchok Penday <K...@net-prophet.net> Research & Technical Writer Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical Excellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet of Gods Church: Send Donations by paypal.com: "No Gift Too Large . . . or Small!"
======================================== WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! AND YOU CAN KNOW IT NOW FOR FREE! TEST THE UNIVERSAL CLEARING PROCESS: COMPARE PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! ========================================
UCP: TRANSFORMING PERSONAL CONSCIOUSNESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM: ONE BODHI-SATTVA AT A TIME! http://net-prophet.net/godshome/godshome.htm GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! @ net-prophet.net UCP *USENET* POSTS @ alt.clearing.technology ACT + ARS free news server: news2.lightlink.com
THE UCP WITNESS SCHOOL IS NOW OPEN! GLOBAL SERVICE AT REASONABLE RATES: DO A 24-HOUR APPRENTICESHIP BY PHONE! RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! CHECK OUT THE ONLINE UCP JOURNAL: http://www.geocities.com/factnot2/UCP/ucp.htm
DOWNLOAD THE FREE UCP *VIRTUAL WITNESS* NOW! http://net-prophet.net/godshome/download/vw091b.zip This TINY program fits easily on a floppy disk! Extract the vw091b.zip file to it's own directory. Read "ReadMe.htm" and LINKS, then simply open "VirtualWitness.htm" in your browser, *LOOK* at your LIFE, and ANSWER the SIMPLE QUESTIONS! YOU WILL RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS, NOW!
Fluffygirl wrote: >I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
>Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an >expell-declare is likely.
>I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I >had with them. This fact.
>When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
>After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within >the system.
>My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt >this!".
>It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM >THEM!" and leaving.
>I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
>Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
>Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
>August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to >suppressive groups.
>So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
>They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
>It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
>I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I >was not nice about it. I refused.
>I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
>I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to >task on things.
>A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it >EVER was here.
>Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
>We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
>Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a >couple weeks or so ago.
>At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
>> Wow fluffy... congratulations!! Or should I say condolances? :-/
>> I've been wonder for quite a while now, how a CoS member could >> criticize the church (as you've been doing) and not get kicked out. >> Maybe they changed their ways or they are just really comm-laggy. I >> guess we know which one now.... :-)
>> Welcome to the wog world! Or freezone, as it may be.
>I have still never been officially declared. Neither has Arnie. We are >still waiting. Its not for lack of effort on our part.
>Elizabeth Ann Cox >aka, Bunnyann >Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
That's like being refused your actual diploma at the last minute.
It sucks.
>> Church of Scientology does not want you to see this website: >> www.xenu.net
I saw many people reduced to incoherent babbling, stripping off clothes, crawling around on the ground, banging heads, limbs and other body parts against furniture and walls, barking, losing all sense of one's identity and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
--Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
I'm an OT.--Lisa McPherson
If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists posting on the Internet every few days, we'll just run the SP's right off the system. It will be quite simple, actually.
Back when I was posting articles like "Claire commits 'suppressive acts'" I was certain that this would be the inevitable result if you continued to post to and/or read ars. Many readers of ars no doubt recall my exchanges with Enzo Piccone, in which I stated that it is policy of the cult ("unequivocal" is the word Scientology uses) that maintaining a connection with "SPs" is itself a "suppressive act". (See Scientology Policy Directive 28 "Suppressive Act - Dealing With a Declared Suppres- sive Person", dated 13 August 1982, and HCO Policy Letter of 16 May 1980 Issue II "Ethics: Suppressive Acts - Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists").
Mind you, I have never for one moment considered that you *were* actually committing suppressive acts; I was simply pointing out the truth with regards to Scientology policy.
I will repeat it again. It *is* policy that Scientologists in good standing are _not_ supposed to be posting to, or reading ars. By the issuance of the "SP Declare" on you and John, Scientology again has shown itself to be the hypocritical organization it is.
Take comfort in the fact that you are free to seek the truth.
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
>Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an >expell-declare is likely.
>I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I >had with them. This fact.
>When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
>After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within >the system.
>My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt >this!".
>It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM >THEM!" and leaving.
>I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
>Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
>Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
>August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to >suppressive groups.
>So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
>They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
>It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
>I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I >was not nice about it. I refused.
>I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
>I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to >task on things.
>A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it >EVER was here.
>Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
>We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
>Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a >couple weeks or so ago.
>At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
>Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an >expell-declare is likely.
>I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I >had with them. This fact.
well, I have known for sometime that Scientology LIES.... now you do... congratulations!
>When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
blinders must always be tied securely shut....
>After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within >the system.
smile
>My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt >this!".
good for you..
>It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM >THEM!" and leaving.
this is a very insightful description of the various types of 'handlings' attempted by Scn. I really appreciate your posting of these details... you will be webbed on the http://www.lermanet.com/exit/ pages
>I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
>Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
>Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
>August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to >suppressive groups.
>So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
Yeah, they are good at rude and snide.....
>They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
>It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
make my day....
>I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I >was not nice about it. I refused.
>I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
>I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to >task on things.
Theres nothing quite as exhilarating than for a person to begin really saying just what it is they feel and think...
>A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it >EVER was here.
yea well, I havent read any of your posts for a very long time... I could see the program at work in your early posts... I dont like chatting with programs... especially ron's, but i do like people who have the guts to be themeselves.
>Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
they are sickly sweet ... and will say anything to get their stats up.
>We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
>Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a >couple weeks or so ago.
>At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
Take BOW!
Arnie Lerma
>More later.
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak. The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers The internet is the liberty tree of the new millenium http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD" You want Bigots? http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! I don't know what you plan to do with this, but I hope you continue doing what you do best: speaking your mind.
What a shame for these turkeys to do such a moronic thing to you. You were constantly there trying to tell their side of things, as well as ack the truth. Naturally, as they ~always~ do..it's their way, or no way. More and more people are leaving for this very reason. It is no way to live,,,and people are tired of it.
I hope you and John are celebrating, and not taking this as a loss. I think it may hurt more when they "do it to you"...but just remember, you did it to yourself. You told the truth, honestly and with great diplomacy. IF they find that criminal,,,,do you really want to get back into a group like That?
I have enjoyed your posts, and I only hope we see more of them. Welcome to the ultimate OT level :))))
Yahoooooooooooooooo. You idiots, OSA>>>what could you POSSIBLY be thinking. Tell DM he is ~the~biggest Nazi, Real SP I know. (** and you OSA bots ain't far behind..backing him up. Hitler could not do what he did alone....just remember that.))
And to anyone lurking, remember please:
The way out
IS
The
Nearest
Door!!!!
Love to you and John. CLaire....
May your life grow and open as you want it to. Thank you for all the effort you have put out, and all the courage it has taken to speak the truth.
:)
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~
"Fluffygirl" <amafluffyg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I > just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I > will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for > at least several days if not longer.
> The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and > connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking > to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled > unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be > real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But > basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an > expell-declare is likely.
> I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with > CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I > had with them. This fact.
> When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark > raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up > the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and > asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the > internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
> After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I > started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I > was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd > always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free > Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane > ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I > then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that > these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. > But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within > the system.
> My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly > meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a > very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I > was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said > she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until > she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to > say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the > week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if > I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and > she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt > this!".
> It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I > started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA > contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting > match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM > THEM!" and leaving.
> I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. > I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal > with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone > there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails > announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated > by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
> Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend > give me all these references to read about anti social personalities > and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed > my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
> Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
> August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the > minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My > friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did > most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. > He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see > them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do > with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which > one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and > something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get > sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to > the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the > reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to > suppressive groups.
> So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No > one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband > when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of > yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
> They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I > said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" > and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, > "Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm > already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he > just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
> It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask > for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. > Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
> I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I > was not nice about it. I refused.
> I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as > Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. > I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would > have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to > just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been > doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc > folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
> I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes > taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to > task on things.
> A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it > "my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black > and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it > EVER was here.
> Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to > see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to > make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very > sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff > pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to > distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
> We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
> Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a > list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash > paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a > couple weeks or so ago.
> At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
>Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an >expell-declare is likely.
>I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I >had with them. This fact.
That's an interesting distinction I don't think $cientology, that is, the entity doing the declaring, would accept as reason not to declare you.
>When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good.
Even me, right?
> In great excitement I called up >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
Cool. A.r.s. at cause over death itself.
>After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd >always been told was true.
It had to be true too because it was true for you.
> I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane >ones!)
Yay, that's me. This is a love poem from Claire.
>was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within >the system.
Yes, you did.
>My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff.
It was that you were engaging all us critics, even the not so sane ones.
> And she said >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to >say sometimes, too.
Yes, it is indispensable to the critic's lexicon.
> I started wondering if it was the new word for the >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt >this!".
This is an exciting story, Claire. I sure hope it ends well.
>It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I >started to post again.
We got you on the rebound. I am so glad I took the chance to respond to you or communicate to you at all these past couple of years.
>This time, after just a few weeks, OSA >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM >THEM!" and leaving.
>I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
What a great opportunity you have. You can communicate freely to anyone you want, including the people who declared you. You can demand justice. I hope you post the text of the declare when you get it, copyrighted or notl.
>Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones.
Yep. I'm definitely one of those anti social personalities, yep, that goes without saying.
> I then handed >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
Yes!
>Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
WoW! During which time you posted to a.r.s. If it's easy for you, perhaps you could date your various communications with OSA and the various actions you took throughout this history.
>August 20, 2001,
Ah, okay, this dates this incident.
> I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to >suppressive groups.
Wow, let the a.r.s bell of freedom ring!
>So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide. >They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled.
This is a great day in the history of a.r.s., and more importantly, Claire Swazey.
> I >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" >and gave me one day.
Poor Justin. The worst thing he could do is report a done on any of his operating targets.
> Then we talked some more, and then he said, >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
A Scientologist controls. And a Scientologist controls because he can. You never hear wogs (R) saying "A wog (R) controls." It really goes without saying.
>It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
Hey, Claire, even that mean old Mr. Armstrong, clearly one of the not so sane ones, didn't demand your money and didn't treat you with contempt.
>I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I >was not nice about it. I refused.
Yeah, really, what good would a meter check, which was probably their sleazy last attempt to give you a sec check, have done? It would only have given the people who treat you with contempt another opportunity to treat you with contempt; by your giving them more of your life to hold against you contemptuously. I bet they'd secretly video you if they got you into a "meter check."
>I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
Yep, and now your folders are fair game.
>I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to >task on things.
>A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it >EVER was here.
But really how were we to know that you'd really broken with the Scientology cult? You knew what cult I was talking about. It had been your cult, and at some point, it stopped being your cult. At first and for a long time you followed the doctrine, I think, of "my cult right or wrong." Then at some point, certainly after the August 20 meeting, you decided "not my cult."
>Then in late April,
Did we go back in time?
> the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to >see me.
Gwen must have some success getting potential shore flaps under control. Gwen Mayfield Barnard has been OSA for eons.
> I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
Yay, Claire!
>We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
>Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a >couple weeks or so ago.
>At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
>More later.
Thank you, Claire. This is the coolest report. I know, coming from your arch enemy that isn't
...
On 29 Sep 2001 09:15:46 -0700, amafluffyg...@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl) wrote:
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
Clair, you tried, you really tried, to get CoS to reform. And they kicked you in the teeth.
I am impressed by your persistence and your unwillingness to let them force you into violating your conscience.
The way things are going, *all* the good people inside are going to be thrown out.
> I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I > just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I > will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for > at least several days if not longer.
> The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and > connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
<snip>
Ah geeze Claire, so much for the longest running demonstration on ARS that the Church of Scientology might just possibly consider letting it's members think and speak for themselves.
I guess in many ways I feel bad for you but worse for the state of affairs in Scn'gy. I thought that because of your ability to both be a critic of Scn'gy -- even only slightly; so slightly that most ARSers didn't notice -- and to be a Scn'gst, that Scn'gy has become more benign from the one I was aware of. You were a testament to their side of the story that they allow those insiders freedoms that were only pondered about by the cult apologists and Scn'gy alike. You are a testament, but not of a new, more gentle Scn'gy.
Now they can claim you are an "apostate" and your side of the story is not to be believed. You will be shunned by your former Scn'gy friends as an SP and not to be communicated with. You will be transformed into a criminal by the Scn'gy PR wagon, that disposes of any threat to its stature in that fashion. You may see how nasty these people really are. In some ways it will *prove* the critic's side of it. But make no mistake about it, it's no real win as far as I'm concerned. The real win would only have come if you could have been you and a Scn'gst too.
I don't know if there is an answer to your dilemma. Like I said I feel bad for you and indeed I do. You are in the unsavory position of having supported CoS and the tech for a long time. It's obvious that you believe in it even if only partly. It really should work and does work on paper. But in reality Hubbard -- the one I ultimately blame -- never created Scn'gy to be this peaceful, love giving, freedom organization that many Scn'gsts believe.
I know it must not have been easy to say you were declared, and I thank you for being open about it. It's not easy to do since you are going to hear in greater or lesser degrees that "I told you so," from so many ARS participants. In some ways I am saying that. But not entirely.
There was a time I wished on you the pain the negative parts of Scn'gy, like fair game and disconnection, imparts on those it doesn't agree with. I think you might remember such a statement made by me. If I can, I take that back now if it's even possible to do so. It's not an easy thing what you are going to do or what you have done. You have bucked the odds in being so open about Scn'gy on this news group while staying a Scn'gst. It took guts what you did and it's well respected by me. I wish there were more Scn'gsts like you. CofS only holds its power in ignorance. And that's why your free speech within its ranks is so vilified.
Good luck with your affair. You may need it. I don't envy your position at all.
The addy of Fluffygirl <amafluffyg...@yahoo.com>, In article ID <40f7d2ce.0109290815.1822c...@posting.google.com>, On or about 29 Sep 2001 09:15:46 -0700, In this thy group <alt.religion.scientology> cometh;
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
>Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an >expell-declare is likely.
>I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I >had with them. This fact.
>When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
>After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within >the system.
>My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt >this!".
>It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM >THEM!" and leaving.
>I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
>Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
>Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
>August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to >suppressive groups.
>So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
>They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
>It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
>I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I >was not nice about it. I refused.
>I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
>I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to >task on things.
>A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it >EVER was here.
>Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
>We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
>Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a >couple weeks or so ago.
>At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
The addy of Warrior <warr...@entheta.net>, In article ID <9p50a20...@drn.newsguy.com>, On or about 29 Sep 2001 10:27:30 -0700, In this thy group <alt.religion.scientology> cometh;
>Back when I was posting articles like "Claire commits 'suppressive acts'" >I was certain that this would be the inevitable result if you continued >to post to and/or read ars. Many readers of ars no doubt recall my >exchanges with Enzo Piccone, in which I stated that it is policy of >the cult ("unequivocal" is the word Scientology uses) that maintaining >a connection with "SPs" is itself a "suppressive act". (See Scientology >Policy Directive 28 "Suppressive Act - Dealing With a Declared Suppres- >sive Person", dated 13 August 1982, and HCO Policy Letter of 16 May 1980 >Issue II "Ethics: Suppressive Acts - Suppression of Scientology and >Scientologists").
>Mind you, I have never for one moment considered that you *were* actually >committing suppressive acts; I was simply pointing out the truth with >regards to Scientology policy.
>I will repeat it again. It *is* policy that Scientologists in good >standing are _not_ supposed to be posting to, or reading ars. By the >issuance of the "SP Declare" on you and John, Scientology again has >shown itself to be the hypocritical organization it is.
>Take comfort in the fact that you are free to seek the truth.
>Welcome to the land of "SPs", Claire and John!
Speaking or Enzo, I haven't heard from him in a long time. Any news from him?
In article <3BB60352.68710...@home.com>, barb says...
I don't think that Claire and/or John is in any danger from Huborg. Claire showed in her early posts that she had no data other than that given to her by Huborg, and now she has public data. So far as holding a post in an Org where secret info of any sort would be known by her, she has not done so. She has not picketed. She's done nothing to cause them to devote attention or manpower to her destruction. Other than posting here, she has posed no threat to their stats. The worst thing that will happen is that some of the people whom she thought were her friends will disconnect from her. Also, Ann Ruble and other OSA terminals know full well that if they harrass her in any way, this entire NG will know of it and spread the word over the planet. So. Welcome to ARS in a new unit of time, Claire. You needn't give up anything that you care about in Scn. You will no doubt find that there is more Scn going on in the world outside Huborg than there is within it. The group that has expelled you is not the group that you (or I) joined. Whatever it is that they are doing, it is NOT Scientology.
>A long time ago, back when you were still posting the party line, before >you were really listening to what was being said here, I suggested that >a good way for you to discover the true nature of Scientology was to go >in and question L. Ron Hubbard's writings or biography. Had you done so, >you would have already experienced what you're about to encounter. Now, >hopefully, they'll leave you alone. Had you never posted to ARS and just >quietly left, they probably would have. Of course, had you never found >ARS, you'd probably still be in. Welp, now you're declared. Had you >stayed in and undergone heavy processing for years and years, you would >have been deClaired, reduced to the programmed ronbots we see displayed >here to our sorrow.
>AAAnyways, it's time for the Official ARSCC Way to Security briefing. >Policy will not allow them to let you alone. Therefore, it will be a >good idea for you and John to take some measures to cover your >asses.(CYA)
>You've read this before, I'm sure. >Get a crosscut shredder and use it on all docs if you don't have one >already. >Especially shred anything with friends' addresses on it.
>Password protect all accounts if you haven't done so. Bank, utilities, >what have you.
>Don't leave anything in your car that you would not wish the cult to >see. Not even for a second!
>Get a good burglar alarm.
>Inform your neighbors and ask them to keep an eye out for strange cars, >lurkers, trashcan divers. If your neighborhood gets DA fliers >distributed, use that as an excuse to counter with information as to >what the heck is going on and why.
>Don't leave your pets outdoors when you're gone.
>Be leery of new associations, especially friendly ones who seem to have >an unnatural desire to know you better and be your best friend.
>Keep in mind that at any given time, you are being watched and conduct >yourself accordingly. It's a pain in the butt, true. But you may get to >like it.
>Beware of strange plants that appear in your garden overnight.
>In a way, I'm sorry this happened to you, but it was inevitable. The >cult isn't about freedom, self improvement, or high sounding ideals. >It's about money. They say that stuff to suck good, well-meaning people >into their maw. That's why they expelled you, in part. You bought into >the idealistic claptrap they dished up, and the last thing they really >want is honest, forthright people cluttering up the place.
>I wish you and John all the best. Watch your backs.
>"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now >every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things >to damage its own reputation." > -Steve Zadarnowski
>"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable >insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as >Scientology." > -ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
>"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign: >terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business >opportunity.
>$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide." > -Chris Leithiser
On 29 Sep 2001 09:15:46 -0700, amafluffyg...@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl) wrote:
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled.
I have been expecting this. Still, I am a bit sad for you. It's easier when you walk away on your own decision.
And while I could say "this proves I'm right" or something, I actually think it would have been much nicer to be surprised by hearing a story of how the church had changed, that they no longer kick people out for communicating... but no such luck this time.
A shame you've had to travel the "rough road" and a shame that you will lose touch with many whom you considered friends, but -- welcome to the real world, where you can live life and actually grow as a free spirit!
On 29 Sep 2001 09:15:46 -0700, amafluffyg...@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl) wrote:
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
I have to say congratulations and condolences at the same time, because it must be a drag to be treated that way by an organization you spent so much time defending.
Still, congratulations, because Scientology declaring you says so much more about them than about you, and yet I feel somehow sad, because it's depressing to watch such stupidity as an organization kicking out their most intelligent and articulate defenders in a form of slow-motion suicide.
As they continue kicking out their intelligent and rational defenders, they demonstrate their own insanity. They continue to promote and reward total nutcases like Peter Ramsay, who are blatant thugs, at the same time, contributing ultimately to their own demise. Strategically I celebrate this, but as a human being it makes me sad.
>I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for >at least several days if not longer.
>The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
>Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an >expell-declare is likely.
>I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I >had with them. This fact.
>When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
>After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within >the system.
>My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt >this!".
>It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM >THEM!" and leaving.
>I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
>Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
>Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
>August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to >suppressive groups.
>So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
>They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
>It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
>I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I >was not nice about it. I refused.
>I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
>I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to >task on things.
>A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it >EVER was here.
>Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
>We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
>Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a >couple weeks or so ago.
>At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
> >I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I > >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled. I > >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for > >at least several days if not longer.
> >The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and > >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> >Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking > >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled > >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be > >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But > >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an > >expell-declare is likely.
> >I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with > >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I > >had with them. This fact.
> well, I have known for sometime that Scientology LIES.... > now you do... congratulations!
Claire has known this for some time, the next step is the realization that HUBBARD LIED. It is at that moment she will need the good intentions and support from the ARSCC(wdne).
> >When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark > >raving bonkers. Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up > >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and > >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the > >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
> blinders must always be tied securely shut....
> >After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I > >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I > >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd > >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free > >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane > >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I > >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that > >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare. > >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within > >the system.
> smile
> >My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly > >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a > >very close family friend. Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I > >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said > >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until > >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to > >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the > >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if > >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and > >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt > >this!".
> good for you..
> >It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I > >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA > >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting > >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM > >THEM!" and leaving.
> this is a very insightful description of the various types of > 'handlings' attempted by Scn. I really appreciate your posting of > these details... you will be webbed on the > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/ pages
> >I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend. > >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal > >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone > >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails > >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated > >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
> >Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend > >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities > >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed > >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
> >Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
> >August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the > >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My > >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did > >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say. > >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see > >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do > >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which > >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and > >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get > >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to > >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the > >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to > >suppressive groups.
> >So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No > >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband > >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of > >yelling. Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
> Yeah, they are good at rude and snide.....
> >They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I > >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt" > >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said, > >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm > >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he > >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
> >It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask > >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt. > >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
> make my day....
> >I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I > >was not nice about it. I refused.
> >I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as > >Voltaire's Child. Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive. > >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would > >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to > >just hand it to them. I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been > >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc > >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
> >I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes > >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to > >task on things.
> Theres nothing quite as exhilarating than for a person to begin > really saying just what it is they feel and think...
> >A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it > >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black > >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it > >EVER was here.
> yea well, I havent read any of your posts for a very long time... > I could see the program at work in your early posts... I dont like > chatting with programs... especially ron's, but i do like people who > have the guts to be themeselves.
> >Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to > >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to > >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very > >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff > >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to > >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
> they are sickly sweet ... and will say anything to get their stats > up.
> >We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
> >Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a > >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash > >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a > >couple weeks or so ago.
> >At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
> Take BOW!
> Arnie Lerma
> >More later.
> I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak. > The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers > The internet is the liberty tree of the new millenium > http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in > The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD" > You want Bigots? http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html
