Christian Markert confirms he's a fraud
henri
Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
and not just swindling people.
redco...@gmail.com
> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>
> Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
> people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
> publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
> copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
> costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
> and not just swindling people.
Oh, shut the fuck up.
henri
Why does a mental defective like you even bother with such a useless
response? I guess you realize you can't fill the massive holes in
this bullshit artist's phony story.
*plonk mental retard*
realpch
Whatever the truth of the matter, that was not a particularly confidence
inspiring response.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Roadrunn...@gmail.com
Your postings, your attitude, your argumentation are self
explanatory.
I have seen the various postings from you on this ARS, they are
rather
prejudiced, accusative and generalizing. Per these I am not surprised
about how you have been responded to. If your book is of the same
nature as your postings then we can be without that book. But of
course, you may have something better to offer in that book.
I wonder what your personal story is. What did YOU experience? Is that
posted any place?
Roadrunner
peters...@gmail.com
> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>
If you have no idea what you are talking about, it might be a wise
decision not to respond.
It makes you look so damned stupid.
Peter
"It has been proven that Scientology uses
similar procedures ("techniques") on the one hand to make individuals
pliable and to
discipline its members, and on the other hand to attack its critics,
who are seen as enemies,
in order to silence them and obstruct them in their activities against
the organization."
Eldon
You have received a lot of good advice about publishing this book.
As I and others have said, you can easily print one book at a time for
a few dollars a copy with modern technology. And you could sell e-
books.
So here you go, having a temper tantrum about a single, skeptical post
by Piltdown Man, who even said he hoped he was wrong. That doesn't
exactly help your credibility. As for your legal fund, you should be
able to get the judge toy postpone everything by providing a letter to
the court that sa¥s you are undergoing chemotherapy.
realpch
>
> Christian,
>
> You have received a lot of good advice about publishing this book.
>
> As I and others have said, you can easily print one book at a time for
> a few dollars a copy with modern technology. And you could sell e-
> books.
>
> So here you go, having a temper tantrum about a single, skeptical post
> by Piltdown Man, who even said he hoped he was wrong. That doesn't
> exactly help your credibility. As for your legal fund, you should be
> able to get the judge toy postpone everything by providing a letter to
>
> On Jun 3, 8:08 am, redcoat1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jun 2, 9:44 pm, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> > >http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
> >
> > > Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
> > > people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> > > he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
> >
> > > But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
> > > publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
> > > copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
> > > costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
> > > and not just swindling people.
> >
> > Oh, shut the fuck up.
The second Piltdown post was even better.
Eldon
> Eldon wrote:
>
> > Christian,
>
> > You have received a lot of good advice about publishing this book.
>
> > As I and others have said, you can easily print one book at a time for
> > a few dollars a copy with modern technology. And you could sell e-
> > books.
>
> > So here you go, having a temper tantrum about a single, skeptical post
> > by Piltdown Man, who even said he hoped he was wrong. That doesn't
> > exactly help your credibility. As for your legal fund, you should be
> > able to get the judge toy postpone everything by providing a letter to
>
> > On Jun 3, 8:08 am, redcoat1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Jun 2, 9:44 pm, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>
> > > > Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
> > > > people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> > > > he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> > > > But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
> > > > publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
> > > > copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
> > > > costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
> > > > and not just swindling people.
>
> > > Oh, shut the fuck up.
>
> The second Piltdown post was even better.
Well no, I hadn't seen it, but I'll go take a look. I thought it was
real weird that Christian quoted the first one on YouTube. P.M. may be
feisty, but the gist of his post was not at all out of line.
In the meantime, did you see the lulzy one-liner post at
Enturbulation.org?
It said, "I smell pussy."
ROFL
barb
Henri is saying something you don't want to hear, and this is your
response? Tch. That's something Scientology would do, don't you think?
Perhaps it'd be better if you Look For Yourself.
We've had a number of fraudulent "ex-Scientologists" fool people in the
past, so we're understandably suspicious. Garry Scarff, Steve Fishman,
to name a couple. I don't know about Markert, and I'm not interested
enough to dig, having more interesting things on my priority list. But,
henri has the interest, he does very good research and his bullshit
detector is set on 'high.' So if he says there's something fishy and I
gave a rat's ass, I'd start doing some research instead of telling him
to shut up.
--
Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
It's Poodlin' Time!
“I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
appropriate.”
--Robert Goff
Professor Emeritus, UCSC
guy incognito
What is your problem? Slaming down on other and then laughing or
wondering why they doesn't stand up? You are acting like OSA, CoS and
other fail organisations. Buy the book or don't buy the book, but stop
it to proove yourself that you, henri, are the greatest and biggest ARS
poster ever and you are the most powerful guy who will save the world.
Just try to think about your word. Maybe words can hurt hm?
Eldon
> redcoat1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jun 2, 9:44 pm, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>
> >> Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
> >> people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> >> he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> >> But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
> >> publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
> >> copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
> >> costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
> >> and not just swindling people.
>
> > Oh, shut the fuck up.
>
> Henri is saying something you don't want to hear, and this is your
> response? Tch. That's something Scientology would do, don't you think?
> Perhaps it'd be better if you Look For Yourself.
>
> We've had a number of fraudulent "ex-Scientologists" fool people in the
> past, so we're understandably suspicious. Garry Scarff, Steve Fishman,
> to name a couple. I don't know about Markert, and I'm not interested
> enough to dig, having more interesting things on my priority list. But,
> henri has the interest, he does very good research and his bullshit
> detector is set on 'high.' So if he says there's something fishy and I
> gave a rat's ass, I'd start doing some research instead of telling him
> to shut up.
My impression has been that Redcoat1892 IS Christian Markert, so I've
been addressing him in the second person. Do you think I"m
mistaken?
henri
wrote:
>redco...@gmail.com schrieb:
>> On Jun 2, 9:44 pm, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>>> Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
>>> people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
>>> he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>>> But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
>>> publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
>>> copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
>>> costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
>>> and not just swindling people.
>> Oh, shut the fuck up.
>What is your problem? Slaming down on other and then laughing or
>wondering why they doesn't stand up? You are acting like OSA, CoS and
>other fail organisations. Buy the book or don't buy the book,
What book would this be? You seemed AWFULLY rapid to drop the whole
project on the basis of a couple skeptical posts.
>but stop
>it to proove yourself that you, henri, are the greatest and biggest ARS
>poster ever and you are the most powerful guy who will save the world.
>Just try to think about your word. Maybe words can hurt hm?
Whatever, Christian. Is that your best answer? To bring forth
sockpuppets, guy incognito, and andre silaghi, to spout nonsense?
henri
>On 3 jun, 06:44, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>>
>> Blabla blablabla.
>
>If you have no idea what you are talking about, it might be a wise
>decision not to respond.
>It makes you look so damned stupid.
So fucking enlighten us with your exalted fucking wisdom, cocksucker.
Turn on the light of knowledge in all our goddamn minds or forever
hold your motherfucking peace.
Jommy Cross
msg <05856170-4928-4db5...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>On 3 jun, 06:44, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>>
>> Blabla blablabla.
>
>If you have no idea what you are talking about, it might be a wise
>decision not to respond.
>It makes you look so damned stupid.
Uhhhh, isn't that Roadrunner's argument?
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
Jommy Cross
msg <d099ac8f-7dd3-4bc7...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:
Yeah, I gained that impression too, though I now can't find the message(s)
that led me to that.
guy incognito
actually there are no puppets and I am not christian markert. i even
doesn't know if he is writing in here something. according to his videos
it looks like he has been reading the stuff here. well to bringt it to
my point. why don't you work together? why do have to critize yourself?
there is a huge psycho company here on that planet which tries to get
more and more power and everyone of us knows what kind of tech they use
and what kind of people they are.
so think about working together and supporting each other instead of
critize everyone and everything.
redco...@gmail.com
I am not Christian Markert, I once posted his stuff from Enturb.
So knock it the fuck off.
Yes, you are mistaken.
Fredric L. Rice
>http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-markert-has-about-enough-16762/
>Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
>people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
>he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
It should be easy enough to validate anything he says simply by getting
a copy of the manuscript after signing a non-disclosure agreement and
then doing some research. Easy. A legitimate author would agree to
granting something like that as well.
If he's legitimate, I'll buy a copy. If not, he'll be denounced.
---
"Anonymous is under yer plate, in your shorts, hanging from the ceiling" -- Phil Scott
"At least with crystal meth you don't end up a Scientologist." -- markritter
"Anonymous is eaten yur cheezeburger" -- Anonymous via Mr. Q.
Eldon
> henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
> >people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> >he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> It should be easy enough to validate anything he says simply by getting
> a copy of the manuscript after signing a non-disclosure agreement and
> then doing some research. Easy. A legitimate author would agree to
> granting something like that as well.
That is exactly what I offered in another thread, and Beth kindly
volunteered to critique it too.
However, what sounded fishy to me is that he said he had A (single)
contract with a publisher that was canceled. Then he offered the book
in both German and English from a London address. He's never said in
which country the lawsuit was filed.
It is extremely extremely unlikely that any publishing house, German
or English language, would publish any book in two different languages
because of distribution, publicity and so on. Often, there are
separate editions in America and the UK for much the same reasons. The
only exception would be a book of poetry with the source and target
languages side by side for comparison.
Beth
> On Jun 3, 3:11 pm, FR...@SkepticTank.Org (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
>
> > henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > >http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
> > >Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
> > >people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> > >he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> > It should be easy enough to validate anything he says simply by getting
> > a copy of the manuscript after signing a non-disclosure agreement and
> > then doing some research. Easy. A legitimate author would agree to
> > granting something like that as well.
>
> That is exactly what I offered in another thread, and Beth kindly
> volunteered to critique it too.
>
> However, what sounded fishy to me is that he said he had A (single)
> contract with a publisher that was canceled. Then he offered the book
> in both German and English from a London address. He's never said in
> which country the lawsuit was filed.
>
> It is extremely extremely unlikely that any publishing house, German
> or English language, would publish any book in two different languages
> because of distribution, publicity and so on. Often, there are
> separate editions in America and the UK for much the same reasons. The
> only exception would be a book of poetry with the source and target
> languages side by side for comparison.
Yes, those things puzzled me, too. I assumed that the publisher was a
German company that would put out a German version. I wondered if
Christian had written an English translation himself or what. It all
seemed a bit murky, but frankly I held off on asking specific
questions because I figured he had more pressing things--like CANCER--
on his mind. :\
beth
BarbaraSc...@excite.com
> http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>
> people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
> publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
> copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
> costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
> and not just swindling people.
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/christian-markert/
Christian Markert apparently works for the OPC. They recruit the
weirdest of people and set them up against Scientology.
Barbara Schwarz
redco...@gmail.com
> On Jun 2, 11:44 pm, henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-marker...
>
> > Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
> > people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
> > he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
> > But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
> > publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
> > copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
> > costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
> > and not just swindling people.
>
>
> Christian Markert apparently works for the OPC. They recruit the
> weirdest of people and set them up against Scientology.
>
> Barbara Schwarz
SUNDAY May 11, 2003
S.L. Woman's Quest Strains Public Records System
PHOTO
Barbara Schwarz
By Christopher Smith
(c)2003, The Salt Lake Tribune
WASHINGTON -- Working from her austere Salt Lake City apartment or
a nearby public library for more than a decade, Barbara Schwarz has
carpet-bombed every federal department and agency with thousands of
requests for public records the government says don't exist.
With no legal training, she has filed dozens of lawsuits against
thousands of federal employees around the country, claiming they have
withheld information on her Utah hometown, which can't be found on any
map.
And she has written hundreds of letters to the White House,
demanding to know the whereabouts of a husband she contends was
falsely imprisoned for her own murder.
A twisted plot, to be sure, but one that can be recited almost
chapter and verse by a legion of civil servants and judges who have
dutifully waded through pages of her screeds since they began
appearing shortly after she moved to Salt Lake City in 1989 from
Europe in search of a murky past.
The U.S. Department of Justice contends Schwarz has made more
requests under the landmark public records statute known as the
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) than any other person since it
became law in 1966. A blueprint for open democracy and government
accountability in other countries, the FOIA has been stretched to its
limits by a reclusive woman who, by her own admission, is in the
country illegally.
A Salt Lake Tribune review of federal court records and Justice
Department annual reports on FOIA litigation shows at least one of
Schwarz's lawsuits has been considered by a U.S. District or U.S.
Circuit Court of Appeals somewhere in the nation every year since
1993. She also has filed unsuccessful appeals to the U.S. Supreme
Court.
In 1998 alone, Schwarz, who always acts as her own attorney and
claims indigency to avoid paying court filing fees, had a caseload any
rising lawyer would be proud of: 10 of her actions against the
government were reviewed in federal courts in Utah, Maryland, West
Virginia, Colorado, New York and the District of Columbia.
The slightly built woman in her late 40s with wavy dark hair
rarely appears in court and has never won any of her lawsuits. One of
her complaints filed in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., set a
record for voluminous litigation at 2,370 pages, naming 3,087
defendants, all of whom were employed as FOIA or "Privacy Act"
officers in the federal government. Some of those workers have dubbed
her a "FOIA terrorist" and coined a verb reflective of her unending
request letters: "Have you been Schwarzed today?"
The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals based in Denver and the D.C.
District Court each have ruled that Schwarz's FOIA requests are
frivolous and a waste of government resources. Both courts have
enjoined or drastically limited her right to file future appeals
within either jurisdiction.
"Imaginary conspiracy": The FOIA's "admirable purpose is abused
when misguided individuals are allowed (in this case repeatedly) to
submit requests to every agency and subdivision of the government,
seeking information about an imaginary conspiracy," U.S. District
Court Judge John Bates wrote in a September ruling against Schwarz in
Washington.
The Justice Department has taken the unusual step of notifying all
of the thousands of federal employees charged with administering the
FOIA that until Schwarz satisfies outstanding search and copying
charges she incurred from various federal agencies, they can legally
deny her continued requests for records. While senior Justice
Department officials acknowledge such governmentwide notification of
what they term a "exceptional" requester has only happened once or
twice before in the history of the law, they say Schwarz is being
treated no differently than anyone else.
"In the case of any FOIA requester who defaults or reneges on a
commitment to pay, whether he or she has made two requests or 2,000,
there would be a basis for the request not to be acted upon until the
default is corrected," said Daniel Metcalfe, co-director of the
Justice Department's Office of Information and Privacy. "It's
certainly true that when Ms. Schwarz brought suit against virtually
every government agency and subpart, that created an interagency focus
that otherwise might not have existed."
But Schwarz is not giving up. She says she can't. Every boilerplate
rejection letter from the federal government only widens the circle of
suspicion that spawns more requests. And until she knows the answers
to her questions, she says she is incapable of moving on with her
life.
"I have no money for this but I am forced to do it because the
purpose of the law is to reveal, not conceal, and government should be
transparent," she said in a recent interview in a Salt Lake City
restaurant. "When I started this journey, I never imagined it would
take so long."
That quest, according to a September 2001 governmentwide memo on
Schwarz issued by the Office of Information and Privacy, is "all based
on unique personal notions that, most charitably stated, are entirely
fanciful in nature."
Schwarz believes she was born in approximately 1956 at a secretive
government compound "submarine base" called Chattanooga on the Great
Salt Lake, the alleged daughter of Church of Scientology founder L.
Ron Hubbard and the granddaughter of President Eisenhower, although
there is no proof of any such place or relationship.
The ensuing story reads like a science fiction novel -- kidnapping
by Nazis, mind control, conspiracy, hidden fortunes, faked deaths,
insane asylums, cover-ups and microchips implanted in unsuspecting
peoples' heads. Besides constantly referencing the tale in her FOIA
requests and court filings, Schwarz has posted it in more than 80
parts on the Web newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.
"This is when people say, 'You're crazy,' " she says. "But I
remember all those things so clearly, it's not like I just made it up.
I need to know the truth of it and not to bury my perceptions."
That includes her belief she was once married to a man named Mark
Rathbun who has been framed for her death and is being held somewhere
in the United States, waiting for her to testify as his "relief
witness" so that he can be cleared of the crime and the pair can be
reunited.
Rathbun is, however, a high-ranking official of the Church of
Scientology International, headquartered in Los Angeles. "We're
clueless about this person and obviously she is delusional about Mr.
Rathbun and she needs help," says Linda Simmons Hight, director of
media relations for the church. "We're sorry for her."
When Schwarz is shown a recent photo of Rathbun from the church,
she maintains it is not the same man she has asked the federal
government to help her locate. She describes herself as a
"nonorganized" scientologist who was "kicked out" of the church in
Germany in the mid-1980s. University of Utah history professor Robert
Goldberg, who has studied the subculture of conspiracy theorists, says
Schwarz's manifestations seem based in the reality that the U.S.
government does have a cult of secrecy. For instance, the federal
Information Security Oversight Office's most recent study showed the
number of government records classified as secret increased 44 percent
in 2001 from the previous year, to more than 33 million.
Guarding secrets: "The context here is the government loves to
keep secrets and it guards those secrets very zealously," says
Goldberg, author of Enemies Within: the Culture of Conspiracy in
Modern America. "So when the federal government says you have
everything we have on this subject and there's nothing, that only
feeds more fuel to the fire in her soul."
Adding to the cycle of Schwarz's repeated requests is one of the
virtues of the FOIA law: administrators are not to render judgment on
the merits of the information being sought in a request. Those
determinations only can be made at the judicial level once a requester
loses an administrative appeal of a FOIA denial and files suit.
"Who's to say that one person's request has more validity than
anyone else's?" says William Ferroggiaro, director of the Freedom of
Information Project of the National Security Archive at George
Washington University and president of the American Society of Access
Professionals. "It's value neutral. In a way, she is using the law as
it is intended even if her efforts cannot be characterized as anything
but bizarre."
One of the other aspects of the FOIA law -- which has gained
increased scrutiny in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist
attacks -- is that it may be used by citizens and foreign nationals
alike. In some cases, fugitives of federal justice have filed FOIA
requests and received responses, since only the courts may declare
that a person who has flouted the laws of the land may not benefit
from them.
Schwarz says she entered the United States on a visitor visa in
the late 1980s and tried unsuccessfully for years to adjust her status
with the Immigration and Naturalization Service before giving up. She
says she has a German birth certificate but claims it was doctored to
conceal that she was actually born in Utah.
Fighting INS: "I have tried to get it worked out with the INS,"
says Schwarz. "They could probably arrest me or throw me out of the
country for filing FOIA requests, but I'm not easily scared."
While the FOIA law is open to all, it does not guarantee free
access to government information. Although Schwarz always requests
that the standard fees for searching and copying records be deferred
because she is poor and the request is in the public interest, a
federal judge in the nation's capital ruled in 2001 that she didn't
deserve a fee waiver because her disclosure would not "contribute
significantly to public understanding of the operations or activities
of the government."
As a result, the Department of Justice began tracking her
outstanding FOIA bills and using those debts to disqualify further
requests, beginning with a $16.80 balance due to the Salt Lake field
office of the FBI.
"Anyone can see I'm not rich; I haven't bought new clothes for 12
years," says Schwarz, who does not hold a job or driver license and
relies on a monthly stipend sent from relatives in Germany to pay for
her rent, utilities and food. "I finally paid the FBI bill and two
days later the chief counsel of the division said I owed $303.30 to
the Veterans Administration. They are generating fees behind my back
so they don't process my requests and it's spread to every agency."
To her, it's all part of the conspiracy.
"This circle is never going to close," says Goldberg. "Perhaps
having this cause and mission gives her a will to live."
But Schwarz says being labeled a kook and an "FOIA terrorist" is
not how she had hoped to find fame.
"It's not that this is my hobby and I don't have anything better
to do," she says. "I would love to just write fiction and have a life.
But I'm an optimist. I believe something will come my way that will
end this."
Piltdown Man
henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote...
This is what happens when one takes a break from Usenet for a week.
Upon one's return, one suddenly finds oneself famous. At least, I'm on
YouTube! Or at least, someone apparently read out bits of an ARS post
of mine in a YouTube clip. Too bad that I can't watch those on my
ancient computer, and that I completely missed my fifteen seconds of
YouTube/enturbulation/ARS fame. How proud I was when I read that one
post by me was apparently all it took to get Markert to abort his
little publishing venture! How crestfallen when I then found out that
he'd had second thoughts, and is still going forward with it! (I read
about all of these exciting events telescoped into an hour or so --
what an emotional rollercoaster!)
Anyway, just about everything that is to be said about the Markert
publishing venture/defense fund/etc. has already been said. But it
might be worthwhile to put some things on the record in an archived
forum like ARS, since I have an inkling we haven't heard the last of
Mr. Markert yet.
He has stated some things on enturbulation.org about his alleged legal
situation. He may have said more things in his YouTube clips, but as I
already said, I can't watch those, and even if I could, I probably
wouldn't. Humanity developed writing for a reason.
In particular, he states:
"there are 2 legal cases at the moment one coming from buffalo and the
other from the cos germny via the lawyers in munich for slander,fraud,
diffamation of members of the cos , pretending of crimes (whatever that
means ) in the court in hamburg . one criminal one civil action suit."
That last sentence is obviously preposterous. Unless I've missed some
major legal change, CoS cannot wage criminal prosecutions. If Markert
is really the target of some kind of criminal prosecution, it isn't
coming from CoS. He's blowing smoke (or trying to).
A defamation case of some kind from CoS is of course a very real
possibility. The problem here is that I've found it impossible to find
details about what it was that he said at that press conference in June
2007, when he was suddenly sprung upon an unsuspecting world as a
high-ranking Scientology defector. I can find some general reporting on
the event, nothing more. He may well have said things that are
defamatory, and which he made up out of whole cloth. Imagine that,
someone against whom CoS could win a defamation suit. The mind boggles. Of
course, it's also quite possible that the only thing that's happened is
that he's gotten some of the usual bullying lawyer's letters CoS likes to
send out, which are rarely followed up by real legal action.
He goes on: "besides that they go constantly at the courts after my
personal address as it protected by the government for fear of harm and
risk of life." So he's suggesting he's in some kind of witness
protection program. But are these alleged legal attempts to get his
address something separate from the two pending cases he mentioned
first? I don't quite get it.
And then, he comes up with this zinger:
"and again i will not post any dox that are from a pending legal case
with a closed file as it is still not judged on the internet ... this
would be straight a crime i could get punished for ... an rest assured
cos woul jump on it in a heartbeat ..."
So he's claiming that it's a criminal offense in Germany for someone
who is being sued to state publicly what he's being sued over, and show
some documentary evidence for it. Amazing. But he does keep on urging
people to contact Ursula Caberta for confirmation of his claims. She
must have some very special legal status, which means he can divulge
details of his court cases to her, and she can then divulge them to the
rest of the world, but he can't divulge them directly to the rest of
the world, because that would be a crime.
Well, that's enough of that. But there is another problem that has
already been touched on: the fact that all the German media reporting
about his criminal past do indeed cite one report from the
broadcaster SWR as their source, and that original report is no longer
available online. It was once to be found at:
http://www.swr.de/nachrichten/bw/-/id=1622/nid=1622/did=2491100/1bk31d6/
Now in itself this wouldn't worry me at all. When a respected source
like SWR produces a story with detailed information about the criminal
career of an internationally active fraudster called Christian Markert,
other media do not tend to waste time duplicating such investigative
efforts, and treat it as fact. I'd assume the report is not longer
available online for quite pedestrian reasons. But Markert himself
offers a different explanation
(http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-markert-has-about-enough-16762/2/,
posting as "Wickederguy"):
"Ok just some words on the so called references ... everything started
with the dead agent pack of OSA ... then the SWR "Freelance" reporter
jumped on it and pushed it around. The only newspaper that printed it
is the MOPO ... something like Hamburgs Bild Zeitung ...or your
National Enquiry...well but if you do a good research you will notice
that the SWR report ( the so called reliable source )has been deleted
due to an action of my lawyers and Ursula Cabertas intervention ... on
the simple grounds of SLANDER (e.g false accusations )!"
Well, that at least includes a somewhat verifiable claim, unlike most
of the things he states. I'm contacting SWR to see if I can get a
confirm-or-deny reply from them on that last point: that they removed
their report from their website due to legal action for slander by
Christian Markert and/or Ursula Caberta.
Piltdown Man (dusting off his German)
henri
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
>henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote...
>http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-markert-has-about-enough-16762/
[. . .]
>He has stated some things on enturbulation.org about his alleged legal
>situation. He may have said more things in his YouTube clips, but as I
>already said, I can't watch those, and even if I could, I probably
>wouldn't. Humanity developed writing for a reason.
>In particular, he states:
>"there are 2 legal cases at the moment one coming from buffalo and the
>other from the cos germny via the lawyers in munich for slander,fraud,
>diffamation of members of the cos , pretending of crimes (whatever that
>means ) in the court in hamburg . one criminal one civil action suit."
>That last sentence is obviously preposterous. Unless I've missed some
>major legal change, CoS cannot wage criminal prosecutions. If Markert
>is really the target of some kind of criminal prosecution, it isn't
>coming from CoS. He's blowing smoke (or trying to).
Not to defend these claims (I wonder why we don't have docket numbers
and courts and the names of the cases), but there's a quasi-penal kind
of libel or "insult" case in Germany that does not operate in the same
way procedurally as libel actions in common law countries. One does
not generally face ruinous costs or fines in this kind of action,
though.
Similarly, the claims that other media outlets picked up defamatory
claims in one source and then passed them on unaltered is certainly
not, in itself, implausible.
That does not, of course, alter the fact that there isn't a speck of
evidence for any of these claims. If this stuff is actually
happening, Markert appears pathologically averse to providing anything
resembling verification. What's so difficult about naming a case,
providing a docket number, or scanning a document from a court? Or
even for that matter holding it up to the same camera he's willing to
babble into endlessly?
Piltdown Man
henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote...
> On 11 Jun 2008 22:42:43 GMT, "Piltdown Man"
> <pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
<snip>
> >In particular, he states:
>
> >"there are 2 legal cases at the moment one coming from buffalo and the
> >other from the cos germny via the lawyers in munich for slander,fraud,
> >diffamation of members of the cos , pretending of crimes (whatever that
> >means ) in the court in hamburg . one criminal one civil action suit."
>
> >That last sentence is obviously preposterous. Unless I've missed some
> >major legal change, CoS cannot wage criminal prosecutions. If Markert
> >is really the target of some kind of criminal prosecution, it isn't
> >coming from CoS. He's blowing smoke (or trying to).
>
> Not to defend these claims (I wonder why we don't have docket numbers
> and courts and the names of the cases), but there's a quasi-penal kind
> of libel or "insult" case in Germany that does not operate in the same
> way procedurally as libel actions in common law countries. One does
> not generally face ruinous costs or fines in this kind of action,
> though.
I do not know what you're referring to. Which piece of German legislation
allows a private organisation like CoS to criminally prosecute an
individual? And of course no cases in Germany, criminal or civil, operate
in the same way procedurally as cases in common law countries. "Common law
countries" just means Britain and some of its former colonies.
> Similarly, the claims that other media outlets picked up defamatory
> claims in one source and then passed them on unaltered is certainly
> not, in itself, implausible.
While not impossible, it is in fact highly implausible, because such
defamatory claims would not have been made in the first place. Germany has
very strict defamation laws. A quick search shows there's even a specific
article that deals with defamation by falsely claiming someone has a
criminal record. A respectable public service broadcaster like SWR will
therefore only broadcast a report in which they not only claim that someone
has a criminal record, but which paints a fairly detailed history of a
criminal career spanning several countries, if they're very certain of what
they're reporting. Other media outlets can be pretty certain that they got
their facts straight before they went to air. If for some completely
unfathomable reason SWR made up Christian Markert's criminal career,
including fake statements from victims, former employers, police spokesmen,
fake references to earlier press reports of his activities, etc., why
didn't he sue them for defamation? Why didn't he at the very least demand a
public retraction with a groveling apology, the least one would expect in
the case of such a major, major journalistic cockup? Why didn't he so much
as issue a denial? This would have made a HUGE media scandal in Germany --
if that SWR report had been the piece of fiction Markert currently seems to
claim it is, that is.
Since my previous post, I managed to find a full transcript of the SWR
broadcast. It was actually pathetically easy to find, I should simply have
included some more German search terms when looking. (Just googling on the
combination "Christian Markert" and "Hochstapler", German for "con artist",
will lead anyone to it.) I'm glad I found it before I had the time to send
off my request for comment on the recent developments to SWR.
I also found the original German DA response from CoS. That's basically the
same thing that can be found in an awful English translation on
religiousfreedomwatch.org. I'd immediately noticed that that included
translated material by someone who doesn't know German very well, but it
was nice to see the original. Until now, I'd only ever had the opportunity
to look at Scientology translations of Hubbardese English into other
languages, which are universally shite. This is the first time I saw
something they attempted to translate *into* English, and it's just as bad.
What I find so strange: with all their emphasis on word-clearing, why is it
that they seem to be translating without so much as a compact dictionary at
hand, with the translators instead quite clearly just making wild guesses
at the meanings of words they don't know?
> That does not, of course, alter the fact that there isn't a speck of
> evidence for any of these claims. If this stuff is actually
> happening, Markert appears pathologically averse to providing anything
> resembling verification. What's so difficult about naming a case,
> providing a docket number, or scanning a document from a court? Or
> even for that matter holding it up to the same camera he's willing to
> babble into endlessly?
The answer is obvious, but one cannot discount the possibility that he has
genuine legal troubles unrelated to CoS. One thing that comes to mind is
that the Irish police, who've been after him since his sudden departure for
the USA in March 2007 (taking someone else's money along for company), may
have discovered where he is since he came out so publicly, and that he's
currently involved in his second extradition battle. I suppose it's a
professional hazard in his field.
Jonathon Barbera
>http://forums.enturbulation.org/7-general-discussion/christian-markert-has-about-enough-16762/
>
>Pathetic response, but pretty predictable. Boo hoo, mean Usenet
>people have forced him to cancel publication. Why, if he was legit,
>he would give a flying fuck, is beyond me.
>
>But it is a good way to respond if you're a fraud with no book to
>publish in the first place. After all, you can "publish" a book a
>copy at a time, like even Jonathon Barbera has done, with no up front
>costs. That is, if you're interested in actually publishing a book
>and not just swindling people.
Writing a book requires effort and persistence. In the long run, being
able to actually complete a cycle of action is a prerequisite to
having a book to publish.