Is Aaron Saxton the Anne Frank of Scientology?
Astrid
While ex-COS member but still true believer, Marty Rathbun might have
more influence on people inside the cult, and make them consider
leaving, I believe the power of Aaron's video testimony could extend
even wider, just as Anne Frank, a young teen hiding in an attic with
her family and a few others, became the most famous victim of the
Holocaust, a symbol of what one movement's drive to "save the planet"
really ended up meaning. Hitler and Hubbard both thought they had all
the answers, and system necessary to rule the planet.
While Hubbard never got around to implementing his idea of disposing
of low toned people "quietly and without sorrow," I for one believe if
he'd had the political power, he would have done it. Seven months
after the arrest of her family, when they were discovered in hiding,
Anne Frank died of typhus in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
While living in the attic, in hiding, and writing her diary, Anne
exposed her soul, her vulnerability, all her thoughts, fears and
dreams, many quite ordinary, some extraordinary. The diary ends Aug.
1, 1944, three days before they were found and arrested.
Anne wrote personally, what effect Hitler and Nazism had on her short
life. She was optimistic, believing that the good in people would
triumph over evil.
Aaron spoke personally, what effect Scientology and Hubbard had on his
life. I understand that it is not the best comparison, since Aaron is
both a victim, and a person who victimized others. Aaron survived his
experiences whereas Anne didn't. You would think Anne's story would
block a fake "religion" like Scientology from ever happening. After
all, wasn't one group of people in the 20th Century enough, who
thought they were superior to others, had superior knowledge and
destined to rule the world, and in Hubbard's case, beyond! Scientology
thinks they have the answers to crime, poverty, drug use, business,
governance, medicine and education.
Anne victimized no one. Still, for Aaron to admit to the guilt and
pain of being in a system which turned him from a victim, into a
machine to produce for the cult, and force others to produce, going as
far as coercing and blackmailing people to get them to cooperate in
Hubbard's insane vision, as demanded by the stat-driven system, well,
that takes a lot of bravery to talk about.
Now out for several years, Aaron has learned what really matters.
Friends and family he can trust. Not a sci fi cult that has absurd
delusions of clearing the planet, and building a space org to clear
the Universe.
Anne's tool was the only thing a thirteen year old girl could use to
express her inner feelings, under the circumstances, her Diary. The
most expedient tool of this age for telling a personal story which
could help others, might be YOUTUBE. A diary is unlikely to be found
among Sea Org members, since they aren't given the time to sleep, let
alone make diary entries. Also, if such a thing were to be found, it
would be confiscated or used against a Sea Org member.
So forgive Aaron if he smokes a little too much, or appears a little
nervous. He's baring his soul, no matter if some people think he's
embarrassing or too personal. No matter that he knows the cult would
like him to just disappear, or that they will probably try to tear his
life apart. Instead of playing his cards, like Marty, Aaron is putting
his cards on the table and more, telling his story with conviction,
passion and pain, because it is just something he has to do. That is,
tell the truth.
He's articulate and expressive and in combination with the climate
right now for Scientology, I think his message could do a lot to
inform people of how serious and frightening the mind-control in
Scientology's Sea Org can be.
Barbara loves Marty
> ht
That guy jumps on the band wagon because it is "in" to leave the SO
and lie about Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard you have the guts to
compare such an opportunist like Anne Frank who died in a
concentration camp.
You are disgusting, "Astrid" and a coward hiding behind a fake female
name.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara loves Marty
<barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 22, 5:05 pm, Astrid <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ht
And how dare you to defame L. Ron Hubbard, the anti-Nazi as a Nazi.
Consider yourself slapped right in the face of the most Jewish woman
there could be.
Barbara Schwarz
Eldon
Yes, what he says is obviously heartfelt. I commented on his smoking
only because he does so much of it, so compulsively. I smoked (a pack
a day) until a couple of years ago, and told him to ask for some
advice when he gets ready to stop. The aids available today make it
relatively painless.
Astrid
<barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You are disgusting, "Astrid" and a coward hiding behind a fake female
> name.
>
extermination policies of the Nazis.
I hide under a fake name because of the Fair Game policy of COS.
"Astrid" a fake female name?
Neben Astrid ist keine Fälschung weiblichen Namen. Sie wurden in
Deutschland geboren sind Sie nicht? Es gibt viele "Astrids" in
Deutschland.
Eldon
> On Nov 22, 4:12 pm, Barbara loves Marty<barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You are disgusting, "Astrid" and a coward hiding behind a fake female
> > name.
>
> Anne had to hide with her family because of the Fair Game/
> extermination policies of the Nazis.
>
> I hide under a fake name because of the Fair Game policy of COS.
I don't think there's much to worry about these days. They can't stamp
out every brush fire.
Astrid
> On Nov 23, 12:42 am, Astrid <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 22, 4:12 pm, Barbara loves Marty<barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > You are disgusting, "Astrid" and a coward hiding behind a fake female
> > > name.
>
> > Anne had to hide with her family because of the Fair Game/
> > extermination policies of the Nazis.
>
> > I hide under a fake name because of the Fair Game policy of COS.
>
> I don't think there's much to worry about these days. They can't stamp
> out every brush fire.
>
weapon.
Maureen
AnonDelMundial
Well, Anne Frank is dead.
No, I think that Aaron Saxton is the John Dean of the President Nixon
hearings.
Astrid
>
> Well, Anne Frank is dead.
>
> No, I think that Aaron Saxton is the John Dean of the President Nixon
> hearings.
You mean Dean exposed the whole system of democracy in the U.S. as a
scam?
I'd say Rathbun is closer to the Dean figure, because he was complicit
and now he's just testifying against the leader.
Scientology is not like a court proceeding, or a corrupt
administration. It was a fraud from the beginning, offering false
promises, with a goal of world domination, similar to Nazism.
AnonDelMundial
essentially non-responsive to the question.
john
"Astrid" <Astrid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2c738a08-df75-456a...@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
A teenage girl hiding from the Nazis compared with a professional thug who
finally decides to quit?
Eldon
> "Astrid" <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Finally? He got in when he was 15, and quit several years ago.
But maybe it would be more apt to compare him to a Hitler Youth member.
Astrid
>
> A teenage girl hiding from the Nazis compared with a professional thug who
> finally decides to quit?
Amazing isn't it? Both were victimized in their own way. Both had the
ability to open up their hearts and minds to consider the meaning of
their experience and communicate it passionately. Anne didn't know she
would reach the world, become a symbol of the horrors of
totalitarianism, but she knew she had to leave some kind of record,
search for meaning in her experience. I've read her diary five times.
Aaron didn't know, when he was a 15 year old, who became a cog in a
system that was supposed to be the only answer, to save the planet. He
was just swept away in it. When he did realize it, instead of trying
to "handle" it for a few more decades like Rathbun, he chose to let it
all out, explain the process of how this destructive cult works, and
let the world know about it. He unleashed his feelings, pain, and
experience, just as Anne did in her diary.
Of course they are not alike in every respect, and their experiences
differ radically in many ways. The common thread is that they both
have the potential, with the power of their story, to show the true
nature of a destructive totalitarian system.
Anne's message did fulfill that potential. Aaron's only has the
potential. Since Hubbard didn't get the country he wanted, to proceed
to take over political systems the way he would have wanted. He didn't
get to the part about enacted methods of getting rid of low toned
people and critics, that he would have liked, if he had enough power.
Aaron's story is going to reach only a few.
Go on the street, and ask people if they've heard of Tory Magoo. Or
Andreas. Or Mark Bunker. These wonderful people have spoken out about
Scientology for years, yet their message isn't quite personal and
concentrated enough to break that barrier of capturing people's
absolute fascination, and the emotional truth.
People see the Tom Cruise video and most just stop at, "wow, that's
kind of weird, sounds a little bit crazy." Tom Cruise does not explain
who he really is, how Scientology made him that way, by saying all the
things he does. In his video, it comes down to "you gotta be in the
game." It's a blast. The overall affect of people who see it, is
generally, that there is something very strange going on. What is the
"it" he and other Scientologists keep talking about. Why do they use
these acronyms? What does he mean by "you just know" yet it is
something that is totally unexplainable. Do all people who do
Scientology end up like this?
No Virginia, they don't. See Aaron Saxton video.
Aaron is emotional too, but he explains what "it" is, from a variety
of dimensions, some very personal and deep.
Anne and Aaron, explain who they were, and who they are, and the
effect of what the system did to them, how it made them feel.
There is no black and white in these matters at the time they happen
to people who get swept up in these movements. Each time I read Anne's
diary, I was moved by her honesty, her ability to tell the unvarnished
truth, in a way I could relate to emotionally, viscerally, putting it
in the context of all that happened to her, and the system which
allowed this.
That's the effect Aaron's video has too.
The millions who died in the Holocaust, and whose relatives were
exterminated also, of them, there were thousands who didn't even have
enough surviving relatives or friends to tell their story, let alone
there being a record of their personal story. Instead, what takes
over in a totalitarian system. Their lies and propaganda machine.
"Scientology works, and it helps people!"
Also, if you study the Holocaust, you study all sides, including the
horror of how a system, once it gains enough power, can make a
victimized group, like the Jews, part of victimizing themselves. So,
it's really about totalitarian systems, systems that have all the
answers and won't stop until everyone on the planet converts to their
system. Marty has missed the boat, about the system?
DM is responsible for everything that went wrong in Scientology? Aaron
reveals what I believe to be the truth. That Aaron, Marty, or one of
many others, would have been a fanatic in the COB position, because
that is what the system Hubbard designed, makes the leaders do. Keep
lying. Keep sucking money out of people. Don't ever be honest about
what Scientology really accomplishes in the way of "clear" and "super
powers."
If a person saw only the Tom Cruise video, and wanted to know what
made Tom Cruise like that, or what does Scientology do to a person,
and they only had an hour to watch something compelling. I'd point
them at Aaron's 7-part video. It's the honesty and emotional rawness.
Eldon
> On Nov 23, 6:15 am, "john" <ident...@position.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > A teenage girl hiding from the Nazis compared with a professional thug who
> > finally decides to quit?
>
> Amazing isn't it? Both were victimized in their own way. Both had the
> ability to open up their hearts and minds to consider the meaning of
> their experience and communicate it passionately. Anne didn't know she
> would reach the world, become a symbol of the horrors of
> totalitarianism, but she knew she had to leave some kind of record,
> search for meaning in her experience. I've read her diary five times.
>
> Aaron didn't know, when he was a 15 year old, who became a cog in a
> system that was supposed to be the only answer, to save the planet. He
> was just swept away in it.
He was raised in Scientology and dumped into the Sea Org by his
parents, who signed him over to Scientology. We can only assume that
he was encouraged or coerced to join. He mentioned that at one point
he called his mother (in New Zealand, seems like) and was told
Scientology was looking for him. It would be interesting to know if
his parents are now in or out of Scientology, and what they think of
his frontal attack on the cult. Surely they wouldn't disconnect, since
Tommy Davis says that action doesn't exist.
Astrid
>
> He was raised in Scientology and dumped into the Sea Org by his
> parents, who signed him over to Scientology. We can only assume that
> he was encouraged or coerced to join. He mentioned that at one point
> he called his mother (in New Zealand, seems like) and was told
> Scientology was looking for him. It would be interesting to know if
> his parents are now in or out of Scientology, and what they think of
> his frontal attack on the cult. Surely they wouldn't disconnect, since
> Tommy Davis says that action doesn't exist.
>
to know -- like his relationship with his parents and what it was like
growing up -- yet I'm really glad he burst on the scene with that
chilling 7-part interview.
It's like the antidote to every glossy, vague, exuberant Scientology
ad or declared "win" I've ever seen. It also makes total sense. It's
not like saying "just read the books, LRH's books are the only way to
understand" or my least favorite, "you just KNOW!"
I just read the full thread for the 7-part Aaron video on ESMB. At
this stage, I imagine Aaron is in the thick of it with the media, and
Xenophon. I wish he would just leave a brief message with Carmel or
someone, once every day, because really, I hope Scientology is not
doing something to him.
You know what I'd really like to be able to gauge...how someone who
knows very little about Scientology, would react to this video. The
media is reacting to it pretty well, but they are generally a little
more informed on Scientology than the average person.
I know a few people I could try it out on. One thing though, because
of its length, it could take time to grow. That'd be a nifty project
for someone to try to get it down to 10 minutes, aiming at it going
more viral, and that if people like it, to watch the full length one.
I've read more than one person mentioning that they think he should
not have done the masturbation Out-2D topic in the first video. I
disagree. To me, that is exactly the topic people who don't know much
about Scientology are going to find fascinating, and be able to relate
to. Tom Cruise's cult actually has these Sea Org people who can't
jerk off without the risk of being punished.
Can you see late night comics picking this up? I can. That'll make
people more curious about the other content in his video
Barbara loves Marty
> On Nov 22, 4:12 pm, Barbara loves Marty<barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
This posting and your headline is disgustig. I hope that the family of
Anne Frank comes after you for comparing Ann to this chainsmoking
Saxton failure.
And I will never forget that you smeared Ron by comparing to Hitler.
You are a Hitler not Ron.
--
Barbara Schwarz
I think that anybody born into a family or Scientologists or alleged
Scientologist should express in writing that he or she is a
Scientologist and is it on its own free will once they turn 18. If
they don't want to be Scientologists, they should leave.
If I would be DM, I would even help these people to leave by setting
up temporary places for the Aaron Saxton kind of people outside of the
orgs where they can stay until they find their own place to live and
can support themselves. People like Saxton should not be in orgs and
nobody should try to keep anybody in the orgs who does not want to
understand L. Ron Hubbard's religion.
I am sick and tired of infiltrator children who are either born into
Scientology or whose parents chose Scientology when they were kids and
failed to make their kids understand and infiltrator kids who stayed
rotten apples because they never applied Scientology and just blame it
on their own out-ethics.
The image of the Sea Org is smeared in the public by all of that. It
is disgusting because the Sea Org could be the most ethical, human,
effective and friendliest place on Earth. But not with Saxton kind of
people.
Barbara Schwarz
Peter Schilte
wrote:
> On Nov 22, 5:42 pm, Astrid <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 22, 4:12 pm, Barbara loves Marty<barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Subject line fixed.
Barbara loves Marty
.
john
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4f4c81a0-b6b4-4acc...@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
And so he has been innocent since then? He was only following orders.
There's people on death row discovering god too. They must be innocent as
well.
john
On Nov 23, 6:15 am, "john" <ident...@position.com> wrote:
>
> A teenage girl hiding from the Nazis compared with a professional thug who
> finally decides to quit?
Amazing isn't it? Both were victimized in their own way. Both had the
ability to open up their hearts and minds to consider the meaning of
their experience and communicate it passionately. Anne didn't know she
would reach the world, become a symbol of the horrors of
totalitarianism, but she knew she had to leave some kind of record,
search for meaning in her experience. I've read her diary five times.
>Aaron didn't know, when he was a 15 year old, who became a cog in a
system that was supposed to be the only answer, to save the planet. He
was just swept away in it. When he did realize it, instead of trying
to "handle" it for a few more decades like Rathbun, he chose to let it
all out, explain the process of how this destructive cult works, and
let the world know about it. He unleashed his feelings, pain, and
>experience, just as Anne did in her diary.
Scientologists are trained as good communicators, they are usually eloquent,
once they abandon
what they are drilled for.
husk
Why is it "in" to leave the SeaOrg and "lie" about Scientology? I
hear no lies about Scientology. What I am hearing is revelations
about the SeaOrg. I'm beginning to see that the two are not the same
thing and day to day Scientologists are in the dark as to what is
going on. You claim it's Germans, Aaron Saxton claims it the result
of Hubbard SeaOrg policy letters. Regardless of who is right, the
SeaOrg today is rotten and must be dismantled. Scientology does not
require its existence. There is nothing the SeaOrg does for local
Scientologists except suck money from their local org.
You and I may not have though of Anne Frank as Astrid did, but why the
"disgusting" remark? Is your goal to refute her/his argument or is it
to insult? Often when people resort to insult it not only detracts
from, but causes damage to, any point they are trying to make. It
also has the effect of legitimizing the point the adversary is making.
The comparison of yesteryear's diary to today's youtube does connect
for me though.
Barbara loves Marty
> On Nov 22, 6:12 pm, Barbara loves Marty
>
> <barbaralovesmarty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 22, 5:05 pm, Astrid <Astrid7777...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > ht
>
> > That guy jumps on the band wagon because it is "in" to leave the SO
> > and lie about Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard you have the guts to
> > compare such an opportunist like Anne Frank who died in a
> > concentration camp.
>
> > You are disgusting, "Astrid" and a coward hiding behind a fake female
> > name.
>
> > Barbara Schwarz
>
> Why is it "in" to leave the SeaOrg and "lie" about Scientology?
Because they fall for German secret service propaganda. Gee, an actor
and movie director broke away from Scientology. Oh, my God! And the
non-Scientologists in the orgs follow the star struck example.
> I
> hear no lies about Scientology.
I hear them all the time, here and elsewhere in Scientology.
>What I am hearing is revelations
> about the SeaOrg. I'm beginning to see that the two are not the same
> thing and day to day Scientologists are in the dark as to what is
> going on. You claim it's Germans, Aaron Saxton claims it the result
> of Hubbard SeaOrg policy letters.
And here you have another lie. The Sea org under the real L. Ron
Hubbard was most humane place to be. German ordered international
infiltrator made it to a bad place.
> Regardless of who is right, the
> SeaOrg today is rotten and must be dismantled.
No, it is not the Sea Org that must be dismanted. The German
infiltration must be convicted and the Sea Org restored with its
original human policies by L. Ron Hubbard.
> Scientology does not
> require its existence.
I disagree. An ethical Sea Org handles lots of distructive problems
for Scientologists as moonlighting, day care for kids, cooking,
housekeeping etc.
> There is nothing the SeaOrg does for local
> Scientologists except suck money from their local org.
That is not true. Many people are worse off in today's economy.
They have to pay rent, food, insurance, car, day care, laundry
service, transportation, health care etc, and the Sea Org would take
it all off their shoulders, if it would be run ethically and would not
allow infiltrators to join and take over who deny people their rights
as Haydn James or Birgitta Dagnell did with me.
>
> You and I may not have though of Anne Frank as Astrid did, but why the
> "disgusting" remark? Is your goal to refute her/his argument or is it
> to insult? Often when people resort to insult it not only detracts
> from, but causes damage to, any point they are trying to make. It
> also has the effect of legitimizing the point the adversary is making.
>
> The comparison of yesteryear's diary to today's youtube does connect
> for me though.
It is disgusting because leaving the Sea org is simply. They even have
a form paper for those who want to route out.
Was there a form paper and a way to route out of the concentration
camp?
No!
Saxton got to eat. Anne Frank didn't get anything to eat. She got
foul water to drink an died on thypus. If Saxton dies then probably on
a tobacco related illness as he does not have the will power in or
outside of SCN to stop his bad habbit, which is again a personal
problem and not the fault of L. Ron Hubbard.
This thread is disgusting as the comparison between a Jewish girl
without a choice who died and an unethical non-malnourished guy who is
very much alive (who never should have been allowed in the SO due to
personal out ethics) really sucks.
Critics look really bad making such comparisons.
Barbara Schwarz