Dinosaurs, Anonymous, and a lack of gratitude
Ted Mayett
(What goes around comes around, karma is real)
Dinosaurs, such as myself and others on this NG have not been properly
bestowed with gratitude by these newbie Anonymous kids. Not that they
should be fawning over us, nothing like that, but they have a great
thing today because of what we did in the past. And they should be
saying "thank you".
Oh about 1993, 1994, 1995, scn was on the brink of oblivion. This ng
was just really starting and reports were first coming in from around
the world. Not only written reports, but pictures also, pictures of
orgs around the world. And around 1995 one person had described orgs
well, he called them Grimy Storefront Temples. And that's what they
were, storefronts and usually in poor or bad neighborhoods.
Vegas, Stockholm, London, Atlanta, NY, from everywhere, many places,
pictures came in of these storefronts they were calling 'orgs' or
churches.
And then the pickets started, the first ever world wide pickets began,
and us dinosaurs wiped out scientology with those pickets. Our
pickets, our web pages, our flyers, our posts to this ng, and other
activities of us dinosaurs wiped out scientology.
And today when these Anonymous do pickets, or raids as they like to
call them. They do these raids in front of Ideal Orgs. And these are
mainly wonderfully restored historic and large buildings. And when
they have lawns they are manicured lawns, sculptured shrubbery. And
the insides of these ideal orgs are as tasteful and expensive as the
outside of the orgs.
(What goes around comes around, karma is real)
If the raids of today are as successful at wiping out scn as we
dinosaurs were successful then ten years from now a new breed of
picketers will find themselves in front of Cathedrals and Palaces
built from the ground up. And then the Anonymous picketers of today
will be asking, "where is the gratitude?" Because what goes around
comes around, karma is real.
Any dinosaur on this NG who passes an Ideal Org now and then should
feel pride. I would, I'd feel pride. I've moved from Vegas over a
year ago and I'm about 3 hours from any org or mission today. But if
I did pass an ideal org on occasion it would always be with a great
feeling of pride. I would look at it and smile and think to myself,
"I helped put that ideal org there."
It was me and other dinosaurs like me that gave these Anonymous kids
of today pleasant and pleasing places for their raids. And so I ask
you, where, where oh where is the gratitude?
--
Ted Mayett
Critical information regarding Scientology:
http://www.solitarytrees.net
t_shuffle
"Ted Mayett" <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote
in message news:6f8n24pa3thdk0igg...@4ax.com
Ted, I thank you for your activism, and I thank you for solitarytrees.net.
It's a hugely valuable resource, and one that I refer to quite often.
That being said, here in Sacramento, these folks are more than happy to
picket in front of a cheesy storefront org downtown. I've seen it happen
four months in a row.
In fact, if you look at the internet, these folks are protesting wherever
they can find an org or mission.
They owe you some gratitude for laying the foundations, and you owe them
some gratitude for taking it to the next level.
Gregg Hagglund
Ted my brother,
Toronto is still the grimy greasy broken downstat org it was when we
picketed from 1997 until 2003.
There membership hovers at around 200 to 250 aging members.
Staff is either old time hard core locals or young Slavic imports who
often flee to their homeland embassies at the first opportunity.
Toronto Org last street level upgrade was with a local grant.
Insiders tell us they are a 'Garrisoned Org' whatever that means and
are in a constant state of 'Treason' whatever that means.
I for one cannot fathom why DM keeps the TO org open. Defecting
Registrars have revealed the Org has virtually no sales or course
income. The staff live on a diet of eggs and potatoes.
I wonder why the TO org and all the other money losing Orgs are kept
open by C0$.
Ted, what are your thoughts?
PR? Recruitment of staff?
Why do they keep the deadbeat freeloader Orgs open?
Gregg Hagglund SP7
TorontoSP
realpch
Ted Mayett, once again showing us his deep insights, one of the many
unforgettable features of this newsgroup.
What an interesting idea you are forwarding, Ted. Picketing causes the
Church of Scientology to grow. You should pass that one on to the
Church, and perhaps they will begin handing out milk and cookies to the
picketers. In fact, I propose to begin picketing my Honda, with the
intent of turning it into a station wagon!
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Squeaky
Karma does not work that way. Karma does not have its action in this
life, but in the NEXT life. If you are evil in this life, you can
expect to have a VERY unfortunate reincarnation as a leper or an AIDS-
infected baby, according to the Hindu conceptions of Karma. Just being
born in the Western world is, in itself, a form of bad karma, because
you are so far removed from the tools you need for enlightenment. This
idea is naturally absent from most Hindu writings that are designed to
be sold to Westerners, of course. "What goes around, comes around" is
not true Karma, but a Western misconception of what Karma is.
Besides, Karma is sheer bunk anyway, just as immortal space alien
thetans are bunk.
Maureen Drueck
<ars.to.tedmay...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote:
> (What goes around comes around, karma is real)
>
> Dinosaurs, such as myself and others on this NG have not been properly
> bestowed with gratitude by these newbie Anonymous kids. Not that they
> should be fawning over us, nothing like that, but they have a great
> thing today because of what we did in the past. And they should be
> saying "thank you".
RESPECT...................................................
You must teach your children that the ground beneath their feet is the
ashes of our grandfathers. So that they will respect the land, tell
your children that the Earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach
your children what we have taught our children, that the Earth is our
mother. Whatever befalls the Earth befalls the sons of the Earth. If
men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. This we know -
the Earth does not belong to man - man belongs to the Earth. This we
know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family.
All things are connected. Whatever befalls the Earth - befalls the
sons of the Earth. Man did not weave the web of life - he is merely a
strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.
>
> Oh about 1993, 1994, 1995, scn was on the brink of oblivion. This ng
> was just really starting and reports were first coming in from around
> the world. Not only written reports, but pictures also, pictures of
> orgs around the world. And around 1995 one person had described orgs
> well, he called them Grimy Storefront Temples. And that's what they
> were, storefronts and usually in poor or bad neighborhoods.
>
> Vegas, Stockholm, London, Atlanta, NY, from everywhere, many places,
> pictures came in of these storefronts they were calling 'orgs' or
> churches.
>
> And then the pickets started, the first ever world wide pickets began,
> and us dinosaurs wiped out scientology with those pickets. Our
> pickets, our web pages, our flyers, our posts to this ng, and other
> activities of us dinosaurs wiped out scientology.
Fossils are imprints and part of the living ecosystem, useful.
And mouse clicking skills are
taken off the baccalaureate freshman entry level.
And this younger generation, being the target of the cults couch
endorphin propagandist can view the past lives of Goebbels and the
hitler youth trying to teach their subversion in the schools, And
wonder why they are so into correcting past lives with institutional
fascism.
Fools gold.
When the right information is out and easily compiled by Google, etc.,
the information is understood. A few one liners can kill years worth
of propaganda.
>
> And today when these Anonymous do pickets, or raids as they like to
> call them. They do these raids in front of Ideal Orgs. And these are
> mainly wonderfully restored historic and large buildings. And when
> they have lawns they are manicured lawns, sculptured shrubbery. And
> the insides of these ideal orgs are as tasteful and expensive as the
> outside of the orgs.
Add Dorothy, Toto and ding dong!
>
> (What goes around comes around, karma is real)
Informationis like water on the wicked witch
>
> If the raids of today are as successful at wiping out scn as we
> dinosaurs were successful then ten years from now a new breed of
> picketers will find themselves in front of Cathedrals and Palaces
> built from the ground up. And then the Anonymous picketers of today
> will be asking, "where is the gratitude?" Because what goes around
> comes around, karma is real.
Intangible.
>
> Any dinosaur on this NG who passes an Ideal Org now and then should
> feel pride. I would, I'd feel pride. I've moved from Vegas over a
> year ago and I'm about 3 hours from any org or mission today. But if
> I did pass an ideal org on occasion it would always be with a great
> feeling of pride. I would look at it and smile and think to myself,
> "I helped put that ideal org there."
>
> It was me and other dinosaurs like me that gave these Anonymous kids
> of today pleasant and pleasing places for their raids. And so I ask
> you, where, where oh where is the gratitude?
Fossils make up the ground we stand upon.
Maureen
Maureen Drueck
Karma is not applicable in that the concept of oneness would be
complicated with each (scientology) individual containing clusters of
perpetual dead spirits. The members are more like erupting landforms
as recurring volcanoes or vessels as perpetual motivators and spewers.
Oneness would only motivate the eruption cycle by excitement with
electricity and hypnosis scripts.
Maureen
barb
You haven't been looking. We are held in deep respect and awe by many
anonymous, who have expressed admiration for us having held the line
alone for so long.
Whaddaya want? Caek?
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
It's Poodlin' Time!
“I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and
belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
appropriate.”
--Robert Goff
Professor Emeritus, UCSC
barb
Well, whatever it is, it's working on Scientology right now! If this
isn't "proof" that karma exists, I don't know what is.
Eldon
Ted, the "kiddies" listened to Mark Bunker and were highly grateful
that he steered them toward a higher purpose.
They have repeatedly expressed respect and thanks to the old guard. I
don't get WTF you're complaining about.
cin...@gmail.com
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 20:29:46 -0700, "t_shuffle"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Ted Mayett" <ars.to.tedmay...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote
> >in messagenews:6f8n24pa3thdk0igg...@4ax.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
You should come down and see kitchener sometime gregg. Its terrible!
banchukita
There are still seedy storefront missions, propped up by the personal
finances of mission holders. But there were also giant shiny orgs to
picket back in the mid-90s, at least in Clearwater, LA and East
Grinstead.
I don't feel like anon owes me anything; it's gratitude enough for me
that they show up and have fun at pickets. Why didn't we think of
caek?
-maggie, human being
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>Ted my brother,
>Toronto is still the grimy greasy broken downstat org it was when we
>picketed from 1997 until 2003.
Yeah, it seems that org does not change, hmmmmm.
Now then, I had a response post to you almost made, and containing
speculations. You see Gregg, it wasn't memory, but rather I just
*knew* what I would find if I looked through the archives. And the
post I almost made said, "I could look it up by why bother."
But then I decided to look it up, how long could it take after all.
And it took less than 5 minutes and I found what I knew would be
there. I never expected the same exact identical numbers mind you,
but I knew it would be close to these numbers. Continuing...
>There membership hovers at around 200 to 250 aging members.
OF COURSE THEY ARE AGING MEMBERS! What do you expect?
Ten years have passed now, they have to be aging, duh.
January 1998 you posted this: "Here in Toronto less than 250 people
but more than 200 have attended the last three major events:"
http://tinyurl.com/5uay6k
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/977ec9fe82e7644e
1998 there were 40 to 50 thousand members worldwide, and 200 to 250
members in Toronto.
Ten years later, 2008, there are 40 to 50 thousand members worldwide,
and 200 to 250 members in Toronto. (no wonder scientology hates the
internet)
>Staff is either old time hard core locals or young Slavic imports who
>often flee to their homeland embassies at the first opportunity.
>Toronto Org last street level upgrade was with a local grant.
>Insiders tell us they are a 'Garrisoned Org' whatever that means and
>are in a constant state of 'Treason' whatever that means.
>
>I for one cannot fathom why DM keeps the TO org open. Defecting
>Registrars have revealed the Org has virtually no sales or course
>income. The staff live on a diet of eggs and potatoes.
>
So they still have a staff house? Do you know, can they afford salt
and pepper to go with the eggs and potatoes? Does the org close at
night and the people go home to wherever they live?
>I wonder why the TO org and all the other money losing Orgs are kept
>open by C0$.
>
>Ted, what are your thoughts?
>PR? Recruitment of staff?
>Why do they keep the deadbeat freeloader Orgs open?
>
I'm not so sure they have deadbeat freeloader orgs Gregg.
Unfortunately reports like yours are common and are the norm here.
And reports like yours are just not credible. You have simply got to
change the numbers around on occasion. This stuff gets archived, any
SP-Critic like myself can look this up just as I did here.
I do not negate what you did accomplish, that charity status thing was
real and cost them real money. But I don't believe your numbers, I
never really have, have always sort of considered them Postulates as
compared to facts.
Recently Hartley and yourself carrying on like real experts, pompously
and officiously stating why they cannot afford to close any of the
orgs, why they have to keep the orgs open to save face and etc. Well
I've got news for you Mr. Expert, and for the other Experts. Since
1995, in all the world, one org and one org only went out of business.
We only know for *sure* of one org in the entire world that lost its
address, identity, and even surrendered the phone number. That is all
we know about, one org and one org only that went out of business
since 1995. And that org was in Las Vegas, Celebrity Centre Las
Vegas.
Anyway, I'm not so sure they have losing orgs. I'm not so sure about
anything in fact. But what I do know is that today in the year 2008
they are the richest they have ever been as far as properties are
concerned. They own more real estate today than they have ever owned
in their entire history, and a lot of that real estate is quality
stuff, expensive stuff. And we are the ones that did it Gregg, we put
those buildings there. By themselves they were going under, then we
came along and wiped them out and now they are bigger than they ever
were. Toronto is a perfect example, 1998 200-250 members, and in 2008
200-250 members.... hmmmm, something seems odd here.
>Gregg Hagglund SP7
>TorontoSP
Ted Mayett
>
>Ted Mayett, once again showing us his deep insights, one of the many
>unforgettable features of this newsgroup.
>
>What an interesting idea you are forwarding, Ted. Picketing causes the
>Church of Scientology to grow.
Pickets wiped out scientology in the UK. Ask Cerridwen.
> You should pass that one on to the
>Church, and perhaps they will begin handing out milk and cookies to the
>picketers. In fact, I propose to begin picketing my Honda, with the
>intent of turning it into a station wagon!
>
>Peach
--
realpch
Listen Ted, you can always go set up an online petition, and everybody
who signs can agree that pickets did not wipe out Scientology in
England, AND that picketing the Church of Scientology causes them to
spend money on lavish Ideal Orgs to shore up the Church's flagging reputation.
You can always do an online poll about whether or not these expanded
premises are attracting a comparable expanded clientele. As we know, the
Church is not known for handing out accurate statistics.
I believe I've run into offhand first person accounts of how this is
working out, but nobody has put them all into one place, or dated them,
et cetera. I suppose YOU could do that. I know you've had thoughts about
the databases of others. Geeze, why not make your own?
Ball of Fluff
"barb" <xenu...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:n_VWj.3096$hJ1...@newsfe17.lga...
Oh gawdammit, those young people with their motor cars and their
electricity.
Just new fangled nonsense.
Whippersnappers!
Of ~course~ they don't give proper respect. Just brash newcomers. Probably
believe in things like 12 hour work days and women getting the vote an' all.
Sheesh!
C
Ted Mayett
>Listen Ted, you can always go set up an online petition, and everybody
>who signs can agree that pickets did not wipe out Scientology in
>England, AND that picketing the Church of Scientology causes them to
>spend money on lavish Ideal Orgs to shore up the Church's flagging reputation.
>
OMG, you called them "lavish Ideal Orgs" and used uppercase where
applicable. I think you are turning to the dark side Peaches. Have
you no concerns for being called a good critic?
>You can always do an online poll about whether or not these expanded
>premises are attracting a comparable expanded clientele. As we know, the
>Church is not known for handing out accurate statistics.
>
Exactly, if your proof of something is statistics that came from scn
then you have no proof.
>I believe I've run into offhand first person accounts of how this is
>working out, but nobody has put them all into one place, or dated them,
>et cetera. I suppose YOU could do that. I know you've had thoughts about
>the databases of others. Geeze, why not make your own?
>
>Peach
I met Paulette Copper, had to be sometime in 1996, I forget exactly
when. We walked around a casino for a few hours, had a meal together,
and did a lot of talking. So blah blah blah and I mention how small
scn is, how few members, how pitiful were the orgs all around the
world. For information coming in at that time to ars was showing
pathetic barren orgs, the proof was there in pictures and posts. She
said, "we are fleas on the back of an elephant."
I wouldn't accept this, it made no sense, would not accept this for
years, this being fleas on the back of an elephant. After all we had
pictures from Canberra, Dusseldorf, Atlanta, Stockholm, London, Vegas,
Mesa, and other pictures and reports showing small filthy orgs.
Then the passing years brought information about things like CCHR,
Narconon, and things like this. Remember Narconon lectures being
knocked out of California schools? That was nice, but they had been
doing those lectures for TWENTY YEARS already in those schools! I
never knew this until I read it in a newspaper article, nobody knew
this. And CCHR was/is bigger than I ever though it was.
I don't know how to count the membership of something like scientology
or the mormons, and we could probably argue our lives away on how to
do something like that. What can be tabulated though is the property
an organization owns, this is not subject to interpretation of like
what constitutes a member and what does not constitute a member. The
property they own is cut and dried, easy to tabulate.
If the PC, Paulette Cooper was correct. And I now think she was
correct, around the year 2000 for me I had decided she was correct.
If the PC was correct in 1996 by saying we were fleas on the back of
an elephant, then today we are smaller than fleas or the animal is
larger than an elephant. For the property they own today is real, as
real as real can be. And we just read that a new ideal org is
scheduled to be built from the ground up, and that is real.
How many members do they have today? A lot! Because if we were fleas
on the back of an elephant in 1996, then oh my, what is going on
today! And the PC said we were fleas on the back of an elephant, and
the PC is smart, she knows.
I had mentioned to the PC that I was going to shut down the vegas orgs
with pickets. She smiled and said all you will ever do is to get a
few of them out a stop a few from joining. I say the PC was right
about that also. That's all we have ever done with our pickets, and
flyers and web pages and whatnot. We got a few of them out and
stopped a few from joining, we never wiped out a single thing.
Allegedly the mormons have tripled in membership in the last 12 years
or so, and negative information about them is on the web. I just
typed 'mormon' into google and the 5th hit down from the top is a
negative site. All this is till brand new, considering the internet
really bloomed around 1995 this is only 13 years into human history.
One day it will all be tabulated and eggheads will work it all out.
And maybe when they are done they will report that the internet was an
aid in the expansion of cults.
Ted Mayett
<banch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>There are still seedy storefront missions, propped up by the personal
>finances of mission holders. But there were also giant shiny orgs to
>picket back in the mid-90s, at least in Clearwater, LA and East
>Grinstead.
>
Amsterdam has had that large building, or a large building since 1995
I believe. Toronto had and still has that large building. But do you
remember Atlanta? I wonder if any of those early Atlanta pictures
have survived. It was a storefront org with a neon sign in the window
that would light up and say, 'OPEN'. Talk about tacky.
realpch
Well any organization can employ the internet now to promulgate their
views. And catch whatever recruits they can. Of course those recruits
also have access to contrary views, which might have been near
impossible to find prior to the internet. There is, then, a certain
filtering of prospects. And of course, information is there for those
inside an organization about which they are having doubts. I'm thinking
that there's probably not much of a net gain for the Church of
Scientology, if any at all. This of course is merely my opinion, without
any statistics to back it up.
I love how you included the anecdotal comment by PC to support your views!
realpch
>
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:58:05 -0700, realpch <rea...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >Listen Ted, you can always go set up an online petition, and everybody
> >who signs can agree that pickets did not wipe out Scientology in
> >England, AND that picketing the Church of Scientology causes them to
> >spend money on lavish Ideal Orgs to shore up the Church's flagging reputation.
> >
>
> OMG, you called them "lavish Ideal Orgs" and used uppercase where
> applicable. I think you are turning to the dark side Peaches. Have
> you no concerns for being called a good critic?
I remember that. Who said it? I thought it was funny.
Of course, Teddy. Them Scientologists are ambitious! You know they're
saving the planet, dontcha?
> I don't know how to count the membership of something like scientology
> or the mormons, and we could probably argue our lives away on how to
> do something like that. What can be tabulated though is the property
> an organization owns, this is not subject to interpretation of like
> what constitutes a member and what does not constitute a member. The
> property they own is cut and dried, easy to tabulate.
Owning a lot of property, and putting up a good front does not mean that
the membership in the organization is thriving. It does seem to mean
that the squeeze is really being put on the current members.
> If the PC, Paulette Cooper was correct. And I now think she was
> correct, around the year 2000 for me I had decided she was correct.
> If the PC was correct in 1996 by saying we were fleas on the back of
> an elephant, then today we are smaller than fleas or the animal is
> larger than an elephant. For the property they own today is real, as
> real as real can be. And we just read that a new ideal org is
> scheduled to be built from the ground up, and that is real.
>
> How many members do they have today? A lot! Because if we were fleas
> on the back of an elephant in 1996, then oh my, what is going on
> today! And the PC said we were fleas on the back of an elephant, and
> the PC is smart, she knows.
Ok, Ted. So let's hear your estimate of current membership. Don't be
shy! Put it in numbers.
> I had mentioned to the PC that I was going to shut down the vegas orgs
> with pickets. She smiled and said all you will ever do is to get a
> few of them out a stop a few from joining. I say the PC was right
> about that also. That's all we have ever done with our pickets, and
> flyers and web pages and whatnot. We got a few of them out and
> stopped a few from joining, we never wiped out a single thing.
Me, I never expected picketing would shut down anything. I expected it
would put a small dent in the Church of Scientology's longed-for perfect
image. A very small dent. Like water dripping on a stone, that sort of
thing. I'm not terribly ambitious.
> Allegedly the mormons have tripled in membership in the last 12 years
> or so, and negative information about them is on the web. I just
> typed 'mormon' into google and the 5th hit down from the top is a
> negative site. All this is till brand new, considering the internet
> really bloomed around 1995 this is only 13 years into human history.
> One day it will all be tabulated and eggheads will work it all out.
> And maybe when they are done they will report that the internet was an
> aid in the expansion of cults.
>
> --
> Ted Mayett
> Critical information regarding Scientology:
> http://www.solitarytrees.net
The Mormons aren't the same as the Church of Scientology. It's a
somewhat different fish. I expect their church will continue to grow. I
do love it when I get those nice young men at the door. You know I've
noticed that one of em is always the leader, and that's the one who's
the most fanatic, and has all the pat answers down. Mind like a stone.
But I just drip away. I'm over being seen as doomed and damned. It's
pretty amusing to me.
Ted Mayett
>> One day it will all be tabulated and eggheads will work it all out.
>> And maybe when they are done they will report that the internet was an
>> aid in the expansion of cults.
>
>Well any organization can employ the internet now to promulgate their
>views. And catch whatever recruits they can. Of course those recruits
>also have access to contrary views, which might have been near
>impossible to find prior to the internet. There is, then, a certain
>filtering of prospects. And of course, information is there for those
>inside an organization about which they are having doubts. I'm thinking
>that there's probably not much of a net gain for the Church of
>Scientology, if any at all. This of course is merely my opinion, without
>any statistics to back it up.
>
>I love how you included the anecdotal comment by PC to support your views!
>
>Peach
It wasn't a joke though, that was her estimation at the time. If It
was a joke I missed the joke totally.
Anonymous
have done for all that time.
Most Anons respect the Old Guard . . come to a picket .. receive
cake !
You have done a lot of good work . . and deserve all the respect you
can get.
I don;t think Anons get the KARMA backlash you predict though.
The members like to remain Anonymous so wanting credit is not really a
big deal most of the time.
Ted Mayett
>> I don't know how to count the membership of something like scientology
>> or the mormons, and we could probably argue our lives away on how to
>> do something like that. What can be tabulated though is the property
>> an organization owns, this is not subject to interpretation of like
>> what constitutes a member and what does not constitute a member. The
>> property they own is cut and dried, easy to tabulate.
>
>Owning a lot of property, and putting up a good front does not mean that
>the membership in the organization is thriving. It does seem to mean
>that the squeeze is really being put on the current members.
>
We might have to remove you from the list of good critics Peaches.
Sorry about this, FWIW, sorry about this. If you followed this ng
properly you would know there are no current members, that all the
orgs are empty. Any good critic know this about the orgs and the
membership. Yet you are claiming they are getting money from current
members, shame on you.
>Ok, Ted. So let's hear your estimate of current membership. Don't be
>shy! Put it in numbers.
>
At least a million, minimum of a million, hard core members. For me
anyway the clue is that Phoenix org page where they claim something
about "one million parishioners." Use of the word 'parishioners'
instead of 'members' allows them to now be honest about membership
figures. They can claim any number of millions of members, and they
can also claim 'parishioners'.
>Me, I never expected picketing would shut down anything. I expected it
>would put a small dent in the Church of Scientology's longed-for perfect
>image. A very small dent. Like water dripping on a stone, that sort of
>thing. I'm not terribly ambitious.
>
Yeah, without a doubt you got a few of them out and stopped a few from
joining. They are nameless and faceless, and we did what we did and
we did good.
>The Mormons aren't the same as the Church of Scientology. It's a
>somewhat different fish. I expect their church will continue to grow. I
>do love it when I get those nice young men at the door. You know I've
>noticed that one of em is always the leader, and that's the one who's
>the most fanatic, and has all the pat answers down. Mind like a stone.
>But I just drip away. I'm over being seen as doomed and damned. It's
>pretty amusing to me.
>
They call them 'Elders', those guys. I just saw two of them today,
been a while since I've seen any. So you've learned to talk to them,
cool, not an easy thing to do, they can be so intense. Are you on
some kind of list maybe as a potential believer? I'm curious. Do
they come around randomly or do they knock on your door often?
One day, I'm in my early twenties. Nice sunny morning I'm smoking
some good pot listening to music on a good system, got a nice buzz on.
Knock on the door and I open it, got a joint in my left hand and the
door handle in the right hand. Two good looking women out there. I
take a hit on the joint, smile and say, "good morning ladies" in a
very friendly fashion. The younger one says, "Jesus loves you." My
left hand never moved, but the right hand shut the door.
I'm interested, if you feel like typing I'd like to read it. How does
it go when they knock on the door, what happens. What are some of the
fun things that happened. How long do you talk. How do you get rid
of them?
realpch
Finally you've come out with it! It is possible there are a million
people who by some CoS standard can be called parishioners. I really
don't know.
> >Me, I never expected picketing would shut down anything. I expected it
> >would put a small dent in the Church of Scientology's longed-for perfect
> >image. A very small dent. Like water dripping on a stone, that sort of
> >thing. I'm not terribly ambitious.
> >
>
> Yeah, without a doubt you got a few of them out and stopped a few from
> joining. They are nameless and faceless, and we did what we did and
> we did good.
>
> >The Mormons aren't the same as the Church of Scientology. It's a
> >somewhat different fish. I expect their church will continue to grow. I
> >do love it when I get those nice young men at the door. You know I've
> >noticed that one of em is always the leader, and that's the one who's
> >the most fanatic, and has all the pat answers down. Mind like a stone.
> >But I just drip away. I'm over being seen as doomed and damned. It's
> >pretty amusing to me.
> >
>
> They call them 'Elders', those guys. I just saw two of them today,
> been a while since I've seen any. So you've learned to talk to them,
> cool, not an easy thing to do, they can be so intense. Are you on
> some kind of list maybe as a potential believer? I'm curious. Do
> they come around randomly or do they knock on your door often?
Oh yeah! I forgot about the Elder deal. Elder Twenty-Something-Year-Old.
I don't know if I'm on a list. They work the neighborhood. So do the
Jehovas' Witnesses, though the Witnesses come around more often.
> One day, I'm in my early twenties. Nice sunny morning I'm smoking
> some good pot listening to music on a good system, got a nice buzz on.
> Knock on the door and I open it, got a joint in my left hand and the
> door handle in the right hand. Two good looking women out there. I
> take a hit on the joint, smile and say, "good morning ladies" in a
> very friendly fashion. The younger one says, "Jesus loves you." My
> left hand never moved, but the right hand shut the door.
>
> I'm interested, if you feel like typing I'd like to read it. How does
> it go when they knock on the door, what happens. What are some of the
> fun things that happened. How long do you talk. How do you get rid
> of them?
>
> --
> Ted Mayett
> Critical information regarding Scientology:
> http://www.solitarytrees.net
Well, I answer the door in whatever state of dishabille I happen to be
in. This has occasionally been a bathrobe. I smile, say hello, and
usually say, "Ah! Mormons!" There is some exchange of pleasantries,
though they are much more interested in getting down to brass tacks than
I am. The Jehovah's Witnesses are much more apt to spend time discussing
the state of the weather, the state of my garden, and accepting my
compliments on their appearance.
They offer literature, ask me if I read the Bible, and if I believe in
Jesus. I turn down the literature, tell them I've read the Bible, and we
often get into the ramifications of "believing in Jesus". I tell them I
feel fairly certain that there was an historical Jesus, though some
doubt this, and feel that he was a compilation. Then they'll ask me if
I'm a Christian. I tell them I used to be a Catholic (at this point I
can see in their eyes that they consider Catholics to be Papists, but
certainly not Christians). When they ask me what I am now, I either tell
them that I'm an athiest or an agnostic, depending upon my mood. I do
not tell them, that depending on my mood, I may pray to the wind or the
trees or the Universal Unity or the Abstract Theory of Benificence, or
nothing at all. I feel that this information might prolong the
discussion unduly. Now the Jehovah's Witnesses occasionally get a hint
of this, but they've been calling upon me for so long, and this really
nice lady who's lived on my block forever, and her lovely daughter, are Witnesses.
Sometimes the topic of what happens after death comes up. You can tell
they think this is a good selling point. I tell them I'm not buying, and
am quite satisfied on that point.
They have been known to inquire why I am no longer a believer (I guess
an ex-Catholic rates above, oh, some other types of idol worshippers). I
sometimes supply them with anecdotes from my religious upbringing. I
always do tell them that I have given a great deal of thought to the
matter. At this point the Bible always comes up again. I offer my views
on the creation of literature. I have sometimes been wicked enough to
tell them that Lolita is an inspired masterpiece. I say this is wicked,
since the mention of the book title is enough to obscure the point for
them about the nature of inspiration. Sometimes I talk a little about metaphors.
During the course of these discussions, which are never over, say,
fifteen minutes, the leader of the two emerges. The follower is soaking
in some of the information I have been providing. The leader is becoming
more adament, quite politely of course, and eventually comes to the
conclusion that I am damned, totally damned. This is never mentioned,
but is quite apparent.
I usually urge them along their way then, thanking them for their time,
and proffering more compliments of the day. Really, I like having these
clean-cut young men canvassing the neighborhood, in their black suits,
white shirts, and ties. Their roles are being shaped by their home
communities, who have sent them out on this quest. I am happy to allow
them to observe some of the varieties of human experience and opinion.
Perhaps they may reflect back on the encounter one day. I guess the
Mormons could send them out to travel around the country and visit all
the bars and get drunk for a year, but this is what they've chosen.
But I like the Jehovah's Witnesses the best. We get both men and women.
The women can be young or old, but the men are always older. I love
their clothes, neat in the men, colorful in the women, who are often
wearing hats. Plus they come from the local area.
Mark Thorson
>
> Well, I answer the door in whatever state of dishabille I happen to be
> in. This has occasionally been a bathrobe. I smile, say hello, and
> usually say, "Ah! Mormons!"
You could give them one of these:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp
Too bad Jack Chick hasn't done a Scientology tract.
Maybe somebody should contact him about that.
It's not like we're lacking in grist for his mill.
realpch
That was hilarious! But I wouldn't do that to those poor guys. Bad
enough that the follower probably has to be deprogrammed by the leader
after talking to me. By the way, I never let them in the house. I
understand that they're hard to get out politely, once they've sat down.
But if you didn't have much going one day, I guess it would be an
adventure. I think I'd try pressing lots of food and drink on them,
maybe put on some mood musid.
: D
Piltdown Man
Ted Mayett <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote...
<major snip>
> Allegedly the mormons have tripled in membership in the last 12 years
> or so,
It's a collateral observation, but I only discovered the other day, when
doing some browsing, that Mormonism, prior to Scientology the first wholly
original religion to have been invented on American soil by a flim-flam
man, has been using that "the fastest growing religion in the world!"
slogan for ages, and since long before Scientology apparently chanced upon
it too.
Why anyone who for some strange reason thinks he needs a religion would
decide to pick one based on its increasing membership figures, I don't
understand. But then, I'm not religious. And not American.
> and negative information about them is on the web. I just
> typed 'mormon' into google and the 5th hit down from the top is a
> negative site. All this is till brand new, considering the internet
> really bloomed around 1995 this is only 13 years into human history.
Yes. Before 1995, there was no negative information about Mormonism, let
alone Scientology, around. This is why the founder of Mormonism wasn't
murdered by an angry mob in 1844, and why the founder of Scientology didn't
spend the last decades of his life in hiding from the law.
Before the internet, nobody knew *anything*! If only young people realized
that.
Mark Thorson
>
> That was hilarious! But I wouldn't do that to those poor guys.
> Bad enough that the follower probably has to be deprogrammed by
> the leader after talking to me. By the way, I never let them in
> the house. I understand that they're hard to get out politely,
> once they've sat down. But if you didn't have much going one day,
> I guess it would be an adventure. I think I'd try pressing
> lots of food and drink on them, maybe put on some mood musid.
My favorite part is frame in which the girl says
"They're Mormons!".
anothers...@hotmail.com
-------
Teach Your Children
You who are on the road
Must have a code that you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a good bye.
Teach your children well,
Their father's hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
And you, of tender years,
Can't know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth,
They seek the truth before they can die.
Teach your parents well,
Their children's hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
______
Thank you to all who are critical of scientology -- for searching your
hearts, for speaking out, for all that you do.
Another Surfer
Ted Mayett
Well thank you, this is very nice. What I was trying to get across is
that we dinosaurs did our pickets at small filthy locations. And that
because of us, because of our determinations these Anonymous of today
do the raids in front of attractive and large ideal orgs.
A spin off of those raids is that the current membership might start
leaving steadily. But it should be known that we dinosaurs were the
first in this also. About 8 years ago the members started leaving
steadily. Nobody new was joining, and that is why the orgs are empty
today. And if these raids of yours suddenly cause the current
membership to leave steadily, well we were the first to do that. If
you can cause the current members to leave steadily that would be a
good thing. But we did it first is all I'm saying.
Maybe your raids will wipe out scientology, maybe not. But that is
another thing you cannot take away from us dinosaurs. We were the
first, the very first in the world to wipe out scientology.
Ted Mayett
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
>
>Ted Mayett <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote...
>
><major snip>
>> Allegedly the mormons have tripled in membership in the last 12 years
>> or so,
>
>It's a collateral observation, but I only discovered the other day, when
>doing some browsing, that Mormonism, prior to Scientology the first wholly
>original religion to have been invented on American soil by a flim-flam
>man, has been using that "the fastest growing religion in the world!"
>slogan for ages, and since long before Scientology apparently chanced upon
>it too.
>
It was on that tv show '60 Minutes', the tv show said they have 15
million members world wide. Saw the show less than a month I think it
was.
Ted Mayett
>> I'm interested, if you feel like typing I'd like to read it. How does
>> it go when they knock on the door, what happens. What are some of the
>> fun things that happened. How long do you talk. How do you get rid
>> of them?
>
Thanks. This was a fun read!
realpch
You are welcome. I truly enjoy my visits with the Mormons and the
Jehova's Witnesses.
WolfyRik
Thanks, Ted :) I love your site by the way!
I think Anons show gratitude in many ways. They can only do so much
though as they can only meet and know so many people.
Anywhere that Anon and newer critics meet the veterans (dinosaurs as
you put it), Anons tend to be welcoming, show a lot of respect, there
even tends to be a bit of pedestal placing. You need only to look at
their reaction to Mark Bunker - now dubbed "Wise Beard Man" - and Tory
Christman to see this.
Many extra-deserving thanks for the shiny shop fronts though :) Saying
that, York(UK)'s front is very shiny. Infact it's tiny and on the
first floor. You'd have to get on a step ladder to protest right in
front of it ;)
Anyways, I think you should take the Anons up on their offers of caek.
They make really good ones I understand.