On Internet religion bashers (was:On Religious Nuts !)
Steven Dufour
hours every day on the Internet putting down some religion? I've cross-posted
this to several groups that have lots of negators. Thanks. -Steve
JimDBB
>From: fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour)
>Date: 2/15/02 1:11 PM Central
The proliferation of destructive groups is one of the most serious problems on
the planet. Getting through the programming that most religious groups
indoctrinate their followers with takes time and skill.
JImdbb
Feisty
Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Since you are posting from Earthlink, how about we share the story of
Earthlink's co-founder Reed Slatkin, $cientology "minister" who is under
investigation by the SEC for one of the largest ponzi schemes in history?
see: www.slatkinfraud.com
Is Earthlink still infested with $cientology Steven? How about EnRon?
Feisty
Steven Dufour
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:11:12 GMT.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID:
> <k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
> And the Organization Header: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net.
> The famous author: fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour).
> Wrote on the subject: On Internet religion bashers (was:On Religious
> Nuts !):
>
> >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would
spend
> >hours every day on the Internet putting down some religion? I've
cross-posted
> >this to several groups that have lots of negators. Thanks. -Steve
>
> your cult.
>
> Scientology is not a religion, it's a known criminal mafia cult, and
> thanks god there are people prepared to endure the harassment from your
> insane cult, in order to inform about the evils committed by scientology.
>
> For more info about the scientology mafia cult, posing as a religion,
> only to get "religious protection" for their criminal activities, go to
> www.xenu.net www.lisatrust.net and the URL's in my sig-file.
>
> Also worth noting, is that scientologist are always hiding on the net,
> not prepared to tell anyone there name, and often posting via anonymous
> or semi-anonymous sources. Note that I do not hide, an honest person can
> post his full name, like the below. How come this crossposting
> scientology mafia goon, is using a faked name?
>
> Also worth noting is that the ISP of Steven Dufour, earthlink.net, is
> run and part owned by Sky Dayton, another scientologist. Reed Slatkin was
> his co-founder of Earthlink,
I didn't know that, but I am happy with their Internet service. BTW I visit all
five of the groups I posted to, Scientology the least. And if I wanted to make
up a name I'm sure I could come up with something cooler than "Steven Dufour"
> and if you go to www.slatkinfraud.com ,
> you'll see what these scientology slime bags are up to.
>
> Sten-Arne Zerpe
> Kristinelundsvagen 24
> S-17150
> Solna
> Sweden.
>
> Phone: +46 8 826189
> Mobile 1: +46 70 6808790
> Mobile 2: +46 70 2184508
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scientology brainwashing removes an individual's socialization and
> sense of empathy with their fellow human beings. They can therefore
> lie and not produce the emotional physiomotor responses that all
> healthy, socially conscious, empathic human beings generate when they
> know they are commoting a wrongful act against another human being.
>
> If a terrorist wants to be a better terrorist, he can go receive
> Scientology "services."
>
> - Longtime Critic: HR-De...@aol.com (Human Rights Defense
> (ShyDavid)) in Message-ID: <3c37c...@corp.newsgroups.com>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
> *********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
> IRC #Scientology JavaChat http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/irc.html
> * Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
> ******************* ze...@wineasy.se (Anti-Cult) ********************
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
roger gonnet
"Steven Dufour" <fourd...@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Your question being asked also onto a group of specifically **unreligious**
content (scientology boasts being a religion while being a true fraud) says
a lot.
r
Steven Dufour
I just knew that anti-Scientologists like to express their opinions a lot, some
of the others seem to be more shy.
ptsc
>Since you are a scientologist, I take it that by "some religion" you mean
>your cult.
Steven Dufour claims to be a member of the Moonies, another cult led by a
convicted felon. The convicted felon "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon and the
convicted felon L. Ron Hubbard.
Wherever you find cults, you find criminals, usually right at the top.
Hear are some quotes from the nutcase Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, a madman
convicted of fraud and described by his own son as a "paranoid schizophrenic
megalomaniac."
"Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6*,
and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something,
but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as
Christianity.
The man on the Cross.
There was no Christ. "
Convicted felon L. Ron Hubbard, you can hear him say this in his own
voice right here: http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/zz/no-christ.wav
So when these criminal cultists complain about "religion-bashing" apparently
they don't mean their own insane cult leaders, who are allowed to attack other
people's religion all they like. It's only when their own CULT is criticized
that they lash out, insanely ranting and moaning about bigotry.
* - R6 is the Scientology name for mind implants created by aliens to brainwash
humanity. Christianity is part of the alien brainwashing, according to L. Ron
Hubbard. Only by telepathically communicating with dead space aliens using a
primitive lie detector called an "e-meter" can the cultist remove the alien
brainwashing and get "super powers."
Whatever you can say about contemporary Christians, at least Jesus said one or
two things worth saying.
Jesus said to forgive your enemies. L. Ron Hubbard said, instead, the
following:
"People attack Scientology; I never forget it, always even the score" (HCO
Manual of Justice
"Never fear to hurt another in a just cause" (Code of Honor; The Creation of
Human Ability, p. 5).
"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The
law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is
simply on the thin edge anyway, will generally be sufficient to cause his
professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly" (Hubbard, "The
Scientologist: A Manual on Dissemination of Material," Ability, March 1955, pp.
54-55).
"NEVER agree to an investigation of Scientology. ONLY agree to an investigation
of the attackers. Start Investigating them promptly for FELONIES or worse using
our own professionals. Start feeding lurid, blood, sex, crime actual evidence
on the attacker to the press" (HCO Policy Letter of 25 February 1966).
(Why didn't L. Ron Hubbard want an investigation of Scientology? It's pretty
obvious! An investigation into Scientology turns up their huge crimes, every
time!)
ptsc
Zinj
fourd...@earthlink.net says...
Most of us are'nt 'Anti-Scientologists' per se. We are defenders of free
speech, social liberties, civil rights, rule of law, honest, upfront
politics and truth in advertising; all of which Scientology, per dogma,
opposes.
Zinj
El Queso
up specific incidents of abuse by individual groups and discussing what
can be done about it. The Catholic church is uncomfortable with such
actions, but they tolerate it. Scientology however, sues, threatens, and
harasses people who merely engage in open discussion on uncomfortable
subjects like the death of Scientologist Lisa Mcpherson.
Queso
Lianna Skywalker
I don't put down the religion. I put down the activities.
Belief and action are two very different things. One is mostly
harmless; the other can be extremely harmful.
Believe in what you want, but if you do something wrong I'm comin
after you in the only way I can -- freedom of expression.
Lianna Skywalker
SP4
"When you show the odd flash of contextual intelligence, I forget your
generation can't read." -- Dr. Hannibal Lecter
Mike O'Connor
fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour) wrote:
It's not about religion. It's about abuse of people and the law.
Read more carefully. Believe what you want. Don't abuse people or the
law. Why is that so hard for the cult? Because such abuse is written
right into its immutable, non-disobeyable sacred scriptures. Bit of a
problem there.
Steven Dufour
> While some may see it as bashing a religion, others view it as bringing
> up specific incidents of abuse by individual groups and discussing what
> can be done about it. The Catholic church is uncomfortable with such
> actions, but they tolerate it. Scientology however, sues, threatens, and
> harasses people who merely engage in open discussion on uncomfortable
> subjects like the death of Scientologist Lisa Mcpherson.
> Queso
Thanks, fair enough. At least you Scientology bashers had something to say, in
contrast to the bashers of other churches. -Steve (yes my real name)
DilbertPerkins
Eric B. Richardson
fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour) wrote:
> > Also worth noting, is that scientologist are always hiding on the net,
> > not prepared to tell anyone there name, and often posting via anonymous
> > or semi-anonymous sources. Note that I do not hide, an honest person can
> > post his full name, like the below. How come this crossposting
> > scientology mafia goon, is using a faked name?
> >
> > Also worth noting is that the ISP of Steven Dufour, earthlink.net, is
> > run and part owned by Sky Dayton, another scientologist. Reed Slatkin was
> > his co-founder of Earthlink,
>
> I didn't know that, but I am happy with their Internet service. BTW I visit
> all
> five of the groups I posted to, Scientology the least. And if I wanted to
> make
> up a name I'm sure I could come up with something cooler than "Steven Dufour"
>
> > and if you go to www.slatkinfraud.com ,
> > you'll see what these scientology slime bags are up to.
> >
> > Sten-Arne Zerpe
> > Kristinelundsvagen 24
> > S-17150
> > Solna
> > Sweden.
> >
> > Phone: +46 8 826189
> > Mobile 1: +46 70 6808790
> > Mobile 2: +46 70 2184508
> >
That's nice, Sten, but lots of anti-scientologists do post anonymously.
The right to do so and the reasons for doing so are widely respected.
Steven Dufour is the man's real name, and he is a Unificationist. Your
labelling him as a scientologist and assuming it is an assumed name is
just you showing your bigot-colored glasses.
--
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you
say will be misquoted, then used against you.
I am @home wherever I am. Send email there.
El Queso
it had been directly addressed to me, and not all critics, it would me
more accurate. Your insistance on the use of the term shows a
less-than-neutral bias on your part. Do you wish to engage in discussion
or merely bash the bashers for being bashers? Is a man who was raped by
a preist a Catholic basher for speaking out against the abuse, and the
system that protects the abuser? If not, than an ex-scieno who got
ripped off and manipulated is not so much of a basher as a victim turned
activist. Can you see the difference, or is your point here to obscure
that difference?
Queso
R. L. Measures
> Your kneejerk label of "bashers" is less appropriate than "critics". If
> it had been directly addressed to me, and not all critics, it would me
> more accurate. Your insistance on the use of the term shows a
> less-than-neutral bias on your part. Do you wish to engage in discussion
> or merely bash the bashers for being bashers? Is a man who was raped by
> a preist a Catholic basher for speaking out against the abuse, and the
> system that protects the abuser? If not, than an ex-scieno who got
> ripped off and manipulated is not so much of a basher as a victim turned
> activist. Can you see the difference, or is your point here to obscure
> that difference?
€ well said, Señor Queso.
- "Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am
persecuted whenever I am contradicted." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
> ...
--
Rich, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures (radio)
www.vcnet.com/measures/library.html (org. religion)
Goldhammer
> Why is it that a person would spend hours every day on the Internet
> putting down some religion?
Some religion will say X, Y, or Z is illicit,
sinful, or something that an adherent to
some religion should not do. Naturally,
this attracts those who practice X, Y, and Z
to come bash said religion, since some
people cannot tolerate the very suggestion that
what they do may be considered unacceptable
by some religion.
--
ten.emohtfos@remmahdlog
bbaker
"Goldhammer" <goldh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:85g0419...@cr171940-a.pr1.on.wave.home.com...
Some people who claim to follow a religion, will not only say X, Y, Z is
wrong, but A,B, & C are the ONLY right ways to be/think/believe.
Then they will try to force their specific beliefs into the government and
the public schools, to the detriment of all other religions .. including
non-extremists of their own.
For that reason, anyone who desires to protect Constitutionally guaranteed
freedoms, and anyone who does not want to live under religious tyranny
dictated by others (fanatical extremists), MUST strike out against the
dangerous ignorance of such people.
If some people had stood up, and argued against Hitler, while he was still
bellowing in the beer halls of Munich, WW II would not have happened.
ptsc
<lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>That's nice, Sten, but lots of anti-scientologists do post anonymously.
>The right to do so and the reasons for doing so are widely respected.
>Steven Dufour is the man's real name, and he is a Unificationist. Your
>labelling him as a scientologist and assuming it is an assumed name is
>just you showing your bigot-colored glasses.
I already pointed out that Steven Dufour was not a worshipper of the convicted
felon L. Ron Hubbard, preferring instead to worship the convicted felon Sun
Myung Moon.
ptsc
Steven Dufour
Good answer. But wouldn't reasonable discussion be more effective than
name-calling? For instance President Bush says nice things about Islam itself
while fighting the extremists, and it seems to be working. Many Muslims are
rejecting violence. I don't think that would be the case if Bush had just
bashed Islam itself. -Steve
>
>
Steven Dufour
> Your kneejerk label of "bashers" is less appropriate than "critics". If
> it had been directly addressed to me, and not all critics, it would me
> more accurate. Your insistance on the use of the term shows a
> less-than-neutral bias on your part. Do you wish to engage in discussion
> or merely bash the bashers for being bashers? Is a man who was raped by
> a preist a Catholic basher for speaking out against the abuse, and the
> system that protects the abuser? If not, than an ex-scieno who got
> ripped off and manipulated is not so much of a basher as a victim turned
> activist. Can you see the difference, or is your point here to obscure
> that difference?
Very good points. The critics of my church (the Unification Church) often bring
up legitimate criticisms. I originally used the word "bashers" in the subject
line to attract attention, maybe I should cut down on that kind of thing.
Anyway I do admire you anti-Scientologists for standing up for your point of
view. -Steve
> Steven Dufour wrote:
> >
> > El Queso <the_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > > While some may see it as bashing a religion, others view it as bringing
> > > up specific incidents of abuse by individual groups and discussing what
> > > can be done about it. The Catholic church is uncomfortable with such
> > > actions, but they tolerate it. Scientology however, sues, threatens, and
> > > harasses people who merely engage in open discussion on uncomfortable
> > > subjects like the death of Scientologist Lisa Mcpherson.
> > > Queso
> >
> > Thanks, fair enough. At least you Scientology bashers had something to say,
in
> > contrast to the bashers of other churches. -Steve (yes my real name)
> >
> > >
> > > Steven Dufour wrote:
> > > >
> > > > An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would
> > spend
DBP
> Wherever you find cults, you find criminals, usually right at the top.
So true. Jesus was convicted (a felon) and executed for his faith.
Your lumping together of all as criminals shows a truly shallow approach to
the subject.
David P.
Eric B. Richardson
"bbaker" <bba...@aol.net> wrote:
>
> If some people had stood up, and argued against Hitler, while he was still
> bellowing in the beer halls of Munich, WW II would not have happened.
Undoubtedly some people did stand up, to defend the Jewish religion, for
instance, that Hitler said was corrupt, criminal, mafia-like, full of
lying, deceitful people who were trained and organized to take over the
world. Hitler's cronies, indoctrinated in his anti-Jew hatred, spouted
it back at the one who stood up, and then in their beer-muddled fog,
beat him up and threw him out in the street to lie bleeding in the
gutter, unheeded.
Sort of like what goes on around here.
Eric B. Richardson
Dear Post-Traumatically Stressed Cad:
You missed the point. The point was that the original writer, in his
blindered hatred, assumed both that Steven was using a nom-de-plume, and
that he was a scientologist. The point was not that Steve is a
Unificationist, but that the original writer, Sten, is a blindered
bigot, much like yourself. Blinders are used to control asses, you
should take yours off and try to act like the human that I assume you
are.
In addition, Sten was criticizing Steve for not showing his real self. I
note you don't make your real identity readily obvious; I defended your
right to do so, but Sten seems to think that you are a coward and a cad
for hiding. What do you think? Is Sten right? Or am I, the
Unificationist who defended your right to be anon, right?
Starshadow
Eric B. Richardson wrote:
I think you are a fucking idiot who blows off his mouth
before knowing what he's talking about, that's what I
think. Ptsc's identity is well known in the newsgroup ars,
and for the record my name is my real and legal one. But
then criminal moron cultists will go to any lengths to
defend their crime cults, won't they, including screaming
"bigot" anytime anyone points out their crimes.
If you don't like the message, don't worship your criminal
cult leaders. And quit screeching that you're being
victimized by words pointing out your actual cult crimes.
The flavor of the cult doesn't matter; the fact is they
share abuses and will go to any length to try to cover
them up, instead of acknowleging them and doing something
about them, as any real human being would do who is not a
"coward and a cad", hiding or not.
And btw, it looks plain stupid for you moron culties to
claim to be superior in your beliefs to anyone else and
yet whine constantly about words that "beat you up" and
whine incessantly about what victims you are made by the
people who point out your abuses. But then you've already
proven yourselves to be a few fries short of a happy meal
by falling hook, line, and sinker for the lies of your
cult leaders, haven't you?
--
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
(to find out what this means go to www.xenu.net)
Eric B. Richardson
Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
> Bright Blessings,
>
> Starshadow
Why, thank you, Starshadow, I knew you loved me. You're soooo sweet.
Eric B. Richardson
blah, blah, blah
For the record, I don't care who ptsc is, I was defending his right to
be anon, and not make his id readily known. It is not obvious even if
your little itty bitty clique on ars knows. Who cares? I don't.
Neither do I care if your little wiccan cult name is starshadow, and
that you disliked your parents' religion and your parents so much that
you just had to go and make it legal. Who cares? I don't. Don't bother
to tell me where to go or what to do, because I really don't care about
your silly game.
Other than you are a silly idiot who signs his/her name as belonging to
a cult that people are intent on proving rapes, kills and eats little
kids and drinks their blood in satanic rites of abuse. But if you are so
busy accusing others of being criminal and so busy accusing others of
being idiots, but you enjoy pretending you are a wiccan, its no skin off
my nose.
And I really don't care about Xenu either. I won't go check out the site
any more than I did several years ago.
*plonk*
--
ptsc
<lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>In article <cams6usla6d646ajo...@4ax.com>,
> ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 03:26:01 GMT, "Eric B. Richardson"
>> <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>> >That's nice, Sten, but lots of anti-scientologists do post anonymously.
>> >The right to do so and the reasons for doing so are widely respected.
>> >Steven Dufour is the man's real name, and he is a Unificationist. Your
>> >labelling him as a scientologist and assuming it is an assumed name is
>> >just you showing your bigot-colored glasses.
>> I already pointed out that Steven Dufour was not a worshipper of the convicted
>> felon L. Ron Hubbard, preferring instead to worship the convicted felon Sun
>> Myung Moon.
>Dear Post-Traumatically Stressed Cad:
>You missed the point. The point was that the original writer, in his
>blindered hatred, assumed both that Steven was using a nom-de-plume, and
>that he was a scientologist. The point was not that Steve is a
>Unificationist, but that the original writer, Sten, is a blindered
>bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot bigot
>BIGGIT BIGGIT BIGGIT BIGGIT!
Sorry, you just turned into a frog. This is a fairly typical response
from a cultist. The resort to screeching about bigotry whenever reminded of
your cult leader's criminal convictions is noted and ignored.
ptsc
Steven Dufour
> Bright Blessings,
>
> Starshadow KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
> (to find out what this means go to www.xenu.net)
But Starshadow, many people call the Wiccans names, including "cult". And I
understand that you've experienced some of the same kind of persecution that we
Unificationists have. -Steve
newguy
--
.
"bbaker" <bba...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:VVob8.65400$fK1.4179701@rwcrnsc54...
Following is one of Hitlers bellowings, which reminds me of the attitude of
some Christians against other Christians and Atheist, even some on this N.G.
newguy
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It
points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers,
recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against
them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage
which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge
to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was
His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two
thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever
before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the
Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I
have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is
anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the
distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own
people.
>
>
ptsc
<lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>In article <3C6E8D27...@starshadow.net>,
> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>blah, blah, blah
Indeed. Jesus fucking Christ, you goddamn nutcase Moonies are always wandering
over here, and there's not a single one of you who can shut the fuck up for even
a second. Bla bla bla bla, always hundreds of lines of senseless bitching and
moaning about whatever-the-fuck-it-is.
What does it take for you flaky pinheads to figure out we don't give a good
goddamn about your criminally convicted gun-smuggling nutcase of a guru here?
ptsc
Eric B. Richardson
This is a fairly typical response from an anti-cult bigot whenever
reminded of their blind hatred and prejudice.
You know, ptsc, I haven't seen you say anything original or thinking
since I first came upon your stuporous, knee-jerk posting several months
ago. I am sorry somebody cross-posted across your path, causing you to
trip, and fall into your hate-filled ways. Fortunately, I have a way to
not see it. Now where did I put that kill-file? oh, yea...
*plonk*
Steven Dufour
Thanks for posting this. May I point out that the reason Jesus drove the money
changers from the Temple was to restore the proper practice of the Jewish
religion, which Jesus followed faithfully? -Steve
ptsc
<lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
BIGGIT BIGGIT BIGGIT.
The mindless chant of a cultist.
At least I don't worship a jailbird like Sun Myung Moon.
OK, into the killfile, Moonie-Toon nutcase fuckup.
Here's a present for you, loser.
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/12.04.97/scoop-9749.html
Moon Beams
Inglorious rev's unbelievable 'Insight'
By Bob Harris
HEY, DID YOU HEAR the one about how President Clinton allegedly sold spots in
Arlington National Cemetery to the highest bidder? Insight magazine, owned by
the Washington Times, said it was true. It was a big scandal, at least if you
listen to talk radio. The Washington Times is the one newspaper that Rush,
Ollie, and G. Gordon repeatedly call the most reputable in Washington. So
predictably, all three lathered up about ethics and military honor. Which is
ballsy as hell, given that Limbaugh, North, and Liddy, in order, are a
draft-dodger, an admitted perjurer, and a convicted felon.
And then, shockingly, it turned out the Arlington story wasn't true. Not even
slightly. Totally false.
Edward R. Murrow is way dead. These same good folks have also brought you, along
with a lot of other baloney: five years of Whitewater, without ever mentioning
the apparent influence-buying of toxic waste-dumper International Paper at the
heart of the original deal; the Vince Foster "murder," which five investigations
have confirmed was a suicide; and the Paula Jones story, which even her own
lawyers are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship.
Think for a second about the kind of imaginative disregard for reality required
to make Bill Clinton look positively reputable by comparison.
So with all the genuine bribery going on in Congress and the White House, who
exactly publishes this diversionary crap in the first place and why? Insight and
the Washington Times are both owned by Sun-Myung Moon, the convicted tax
swindler who--with a straight face--claims to be holier than Jesus. Moon calls
the United States "Satan's harvest" and publicly opposes the very idea of
democracy, preferring instead to dream about an absolute religious dictatorship
with himself on the throne.
Moon's mind-control tactics over his followers became an object of pop humor
when he first became well known, so a lot of folks take his influence lightly.
Don't. Even though U.S. membership in his Unification Church is in severe
decline, Moon has vastly more money and power than most Americans realize.
Financially, Moon's in the same league as Warren Buffett. Since it's all mixed
up in a byzantine array of multinational companies, foundations, and
non-profits, nobody knows how much the whole empire is worth. Yet public records
confirm that Moon controls over $200 million in real estate just in the
Washington, D.C., area alone. The total Moonie haul is well into the billions.
Where does all the money come from? Again, no one really knows for sure. Cheap
Moonie labor must be pretty handy. Non-profit status for a lot of the operation
probably doesn't hurt much, either. Then again, a '70s-era congressional report
bluntly accused Moon of bank fraud and arms smuggling, much of which apparently
received sanction from various intelligence agencies. We'd probably know more by
now, but the probes ended with the election of Ronald Reagan and former CIA
director George Bush, whose circle of contacts in Asia and Latin America
overlapped with Moon's closely enough that Moon was even invited to the 1980
inaugural.
Thanks largely to the work of investigative journalist Robert Parry--who first
blew the whistle on an unknown Marine illegally running guns from the White
House basement (hi, Ollie)--we now know that Moon's financial influence over the
Republican Party spans at least two decades. Parry has discovered millions of
dollars flowing via various conduits from Moon to the GOP.
A few examples:
When the Iran-Contra scandal broke, Moon supplied at least $5 million to PR
efforts on behalf of North, whose later Senate campaign received personnel and
financial assistance from several Moonie organizations.
When Jerry Falwell's Liberty University was on the verge of bankruptcy, Moon
became his personal savior, sacrificing $3.5 million to pay for Falwell's
financial sins. (Some of this money is now financing Paula Jones' ongoing
goofiness via a conduit called the Rutherford Foundation.)
More recently, Moon has given a seven-figure series of payments to none other
than George and Barbara Bush, in return for a series of little-reported speeches
on behalf of Moonie businesses and newspapers in Asia and South America.
Speaking of Moon's newspapers--which were founded for the sole purpose of
influencing the U.S. political system on behalf of Moon's larger agenda--the
Washington Times loses enormous amounts of money every year. How much, exactly?
Moon admitted several months ago than the total for the last 15 years is over a
billion dollars. Which means neither the Times nor Insight would even exist
without Moon's massive cash flow, almost all of which originates overseas. And
these are the publications howling about Asian money influencing the Democrats.
Which nicely diverts attention from Moon's own activities.
These are the folks who push any Clinton-bashing allegation whatsoever, thereby
currying favor with political allies who, like Moon himself, are more concerned
about power than truth, reform, or even democracy.
Follow the money. There's a hell of a lot buried in D.C. these days, on both
sides of the aisle. But Arlington's the last place to dig.
Eric B. Richardson
"Eric B. Richardson" <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
> In article <3C6E8D27...@starshadow.net>,
> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
Oh, one last thing, Starshadow. You give real wiccans a bad name.
Kaeli
alt.religion.scientology (Eric Richardson and Steven Dufour to start with)
It's getting annoying trying to wade through these posts already, and
calling people names isn't exactly the best way to start off on the
right foot.
Kaeli A.
Kaeli
Could you tell people like Eric Richardson and Steven Dufour not to
cross post to alt.religion.scientology??
Walking in here and crossposting to a newsgroup with deliberate insults
is not the way to start.
Thanks.
Kaeli A.
H. Jefferson
> Very good points. The critics of my church (the Unification Church) often >bring up legitimate criticisms. I originally used the word "bashers" in the >subject line to attract attention, maybe I should cut down on that kind of >thing. Anyway I do admire you anti-Scientologists for standing up for your >point of view. -Steve
To Steve: Just for clarification purposes, Steve, could you list what
you consider "legitimate criticisms" of your UC? Thanks.
H.Jefferson
newguy
--
.
"Steven Dufour" <fourd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ocxb8.2991$tu6.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Thank you, but we all want others to do what we deem proper practice. I am
reminded of that constantly. newguy
>
Etherman
> An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person
would spend
> hours every day on the Internet putting down some religion? I've
cross-posted
> this to several groups that have lots of negators. Thanks. -Steve
You're right. We need to be kinder to dumb animals^H^H^H^H^H^H^
Christians.
--
Etherman
AA # pi
EAC Director of Ritual Satanic Abuse Operations
AMTCode(v2): [Poster][TÆ][A5][Lx][Sx][Bx][FD][P-][CC]
Steven Dufour
When ever a critic posts something I agree with I mention it. -Steve
Steven Dufour
> > "newguy" <cerb...@saber.net> writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > .
> > > "bbaker" <bba...@aol.net> wrote in message
> > > news:VVob8.65400$fK1.4179701@rwcrnsc54...
> > > >
> > > > "Goldhammer" <goldh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:85g0419...@cr171940-a.pr1.on.wave.home.com...
> > > > > fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour) writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> Internet
> > > > > > putting down some religion?
> > > > >
> > > > >
Good point, I guess Jesus was a special case. I think the effect of his act of
driving the money changers out of the Temple was only symbolic anyway.
BTW my reason for mentioning his Jewishness was in case someone took what Hitler
said seriously.
Thanks. -Steve
> >
>
>
Steven Dufour
>
> "Steven Dufour" <fourd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person
> would spend
> > hours every day on the Internet putting down some religion? I've
> cross-posted
> > this to several groups that have lots of negators. Thanks. -Steve
>
> You're right. We need to be kinder to dumb animals
That would be a good thing too.
El Queso
There is awareness raising, pickets, leafleting, and many other
effective ways to protest. All of them are in use. You seem to be trying
to paint all critics with one brush. What is your motivation?
Queso
Steven Dufour
> In article <lbyron-F488F4....@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com>,
> "Eric B. Richardson" <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <3C6E8D27...@starshadow.net>,
> > Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
> Oh, one last thing, Starshadow. You give real wiccans a bad name.
I also have some Wiccan friends and Starshadow's attitude is not typical.
newguy
--
.
"Steven Dufour" <fourd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:6kBb8.3312
> > >
> > > Thanks for posting this. May I point out that the reason Jesus drove
the
> > money
> > > changers from the Temple was to restore the proper practice of the
Jewish
> > > religion, which Jesus followed faithfully? -Steve
> >
> > Thank you, but we all want others to do what we deem proper practice. I
am
> > reminded of that constantly. newguy
>
> Good point, I guess Jesus was a special case. I think the effect of his
act of
> driving the money changers out of the Temple was only symbolic anyway.
Most likely
>
> BTW my reason for mentioning his Jewishness was in case someone took what
Hitler
> said seriously.
Understand. newguy
>
> Thanks. -Steve
> > >
> >
> >
>
Steven Dufour
> Your assertation is that ALL critics do is name call. That is incorrect.
> There is awareness raising, pickets, leafleting, and many other
> effective ways to protest. All of them are in use. You seem to be trying
> to paint all critics with one brush. What is your motivation?
Hi Queso, To answer your question: I'm a member of the Unification Church. At
our NG there are a number of people who spend their time criticizing our church.
I'd like to see some of them at least stop doing this both for the sake of the
image of our church and also because I think they could be doing more positive
things with their time and effort. I see the same thing happening with the
Mormon, Catholic, and general Christian NG's. I don't know much about
Scientology. Perhaps you Scientology critics are in a little bit different
situation. Thanks. -Steve
Hartley Patterson
> And please, do not compare Scientologists to the people persecuted by the Nazis -
> as you did in another posting. None of the Scientologists has suffered being
> subjected to medical experiments, killed by gas or just clubbed to death. (correct
> me, if I'm wrong)
You're wrong! Scientologists have all suffered every crime and hideous
torture you can think of - in their previous lives.
Read Ron's book on the subject if you can find it. They stopped
discussing previous lives after they ran into the same problem as the
spiritualists, they *all* discovered they were Napoleon. Or Cleopatra.
Or spaceship captains. Or train drivers on Venus. Don't think anyone
offered to be the unicycling crocodile though.
--
"I think of my beautiful city in flames"
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
A medieval spreadsheet, enturbulating entheta and how to outrun
Thread. PGP ID 0xC27CDDDC
Eric B. Richardson
In article
<ehtt6usnrcnmqcdjd...@The.Fifth.Galactic.Invader.Force>,
?Anti-Cult? - www.users.wineasy.se/noname/ <ze...@wineasy.se> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:57:40 GMT.
> In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
> With the Message-ID:
> <UlCb8.3472$tu6.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
> And the Organization Header: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net.
> The famous author: fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour).
> Wrote on the subject: Re: On Internet religion bashers (was:On Religious
> Nuts !):
>
> >El Queso <the_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >> Your assertation is that ALL critics do is name call. That is incorrect.
> >> There is awareness raising, pickets, leafleting, and many other
> >> effective ways to protest. All of them are in use. You seem to be trying
> >> to paint all critics with one brush. What is your motivation?
> >
> >Hi Queso, To answer your question: I'm a member of the Unification Church.
>
> Geeze, that's not a church either. It's the god damned Moonie cult.
> Scientology is not a church either. You're both god damned criminal mafia
> cults.
>
> >At
> >our NG there are a number of people who spend their time criticizing our
> >church.
>
> Repeat: The Moon mafia is not a church, it's a god damned criminal
> establishment.
>
> >I'd like to see some of them at least stop doing this both for the sake of
> >the
> >image of our church and also because I think they could be doing more
> >positive
> >things with their time and effort.
>
> Nothing is more worthwhile, than to expose criminal assholes like Moon
> and Hubbard.
>
> >I see the same thing happening with the
> >Mormon, Catholic, and general Christian NG's.
>
> This might help:
>
> "There will not be any peace on Earth, until the last priest hangs from a
> tree, in his own intestines"
>
>
>
> >I don't know much about
> >Scientology. Perhaps you Scientology critics are in a little bit different
> >situation. Thanks. -Steve
>
> You are a Moonie, and the moonies and scientology is sleeping in the same
> bed. That became clear when the criminal Moon devils supported
> scientology in Europe.
>
> Eat shit and die fast mafia criminal!
>
> Sincerely, or perhaps not so very fucking sincerely at all.
>
> Sten-Arne Zerpe
Starshadow
Eric B. Richardson wrote:
> In article <3C6E8D27...@starshadow.net>,
> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
> blah, blah, blah
>
> For the record, I don't care who ptsc is, I was defending his right to
> be anon, and not make his id readily known. It is not obvious even if
> your little itty bitty clique on ars knows. Who cares? I don't.
>
> Neither do I care if your little wiccan cult name is starshadow, and
> that you disliked your parents' religion and your parents so much that
> you just had to go and make it legal. Who cares? I don't. Don't bother
> to tell me where to go or what to do, because I really don't care about
> your silly game.
Nice lot of assumptions you've made there, idiot. Do you
always get your exercise jumping from conclusion to
conclusion like that?
>
> Other than you are a silly idiot who signs his/her name as belonging to
> a cult that people are intent on proving rapes, kills and eats little
> kids and drinks their blood in satanic rites of abuse. But if you are so
> busy accusing others of being criminal and so busy accusing others of
> being idiots, but you enjoy pretending you are a wiccan, its no skin off
> my nose.
This made no sense whatsoever. But then you are a moron
crime cultist, which is to say you are insane.
>
> And I really don't care about Xenu either. I won't go check out the site
> any more than I did several years ago.
I wouldn't expect you to. After all, you worship a
criminal who abuses children and the law, just like the
CofS does.
I mean, why would you want your delusions attacked, when
you are so convinced of the righteousness of them?
>
> *plonk*
Thanks. Couldn't have come from a more fitting place. Yet
another moron who says "I can't HEAR YOU, LA LA LA LA"
while putting his fingers in his ears.
Such superior human beings you crime cultists are!
Certainly proves how superior your message is, doesn't it?
>
>
>>Eric B. Richardson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <cams6usla6d646ajo...@4ax.com>,
>>> ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 03:26:01 GMT, "Eric B. Richardson"
>>>><lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That's nice, Sten, but lots of anti-scientologists do post anonymously.
>>>>>The right to do so and the reasons for doing so are widely respected.
>>>>>
>>>>>Steven Dufour is the man's real name, and he is a Unificationist. Your
>>>>>labelling him as a scientologist and assuming it is an assumed name is
>>>>>just you showing your bigot-colored glasses.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I already pointed out that Steven Dufour was not a worshipper of the
>>>>convicted
>>>>felon L. Ron Hubbard, preferring instead to worship the convicted felon Sun
>>>>Myung Moon.
>>>>
>>>>ptsc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Dear Post-Traumatically Stressed Cad:
>>>
>>>You missed the point. The point was that the original writer, in his
>>>blindered hatred, assumed both that Steven was using a nom-de-plume, and
>>>that he was a scientologist. The point was not that Steve is a
>>>Unificationist, but that the original writer, Sten, is a blindered
>>>bigot, much like yourself. Blinders are used to control asses, you
>>>should take yours off and try to act like the human that I assume you
>>>are.
>>>
>>>In addition, Sten was criticizing Steve for not showing his real self. I
>>>note you don't make your real identity readily obvious; I defended your
>>>right to do so, but Sten seems to think that you are a coward and a cad
>>>for hiding. What do you think? Is Sten right? Or am I, the
>>>Unificationist who defended your right to be anon, right?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I think you are a fucking idiot who blows off his mouth
>>before knowing what he's talking about, that's what I
>>think. Ptsc's identity is well known in the newsgroup ars,
>>and for the record my name is my real and legal one. But
>>then criminal moron cultists will go to any lengths to
>>defend their crime cults, won't they, including screaming
>>"bigot" anytime anyone points out their crimes.
>>
>>If you don't like the message, don't worship your criminal
>>cult leaders. And quit screeching that you're being
>>victimized by words pointing out your actual cult crimes.
>>The flavor of the cult doesn't matter; the fact is they
>>share abuses and will go to any length to try to cover
>>them up, instead of acknowleging them and doing something
>>about them, as any real human being would do who is not a
>>"coward and a cad", hiding or not.
>>
>>And btw, it looks plain stupid for you moron culties to
>>claim to be superior in your beliefs to anyone else and
>>yet whine constantly about words that "beat you up" and
>>whine incessantly about what victims you are made by the
>>people who point out your abuses. But then you've already
>>proven yourselves to be a few fries short of a happy meal
>>by falling hook, line, and sinker for the lies of your
>>cult leaders, haven't you?
>>
>
--
Starshadow
Steven Dufour wrote:
Wicca has no central authority figure, unlike certain
cults which claim their authority figure is either a
superior human being or god incarnate.
Wicca worships no man or woman. No one in Wicca tells
other Wiccans they must follow any commandments made by
anyone claiming to speak for the gods. And while there are
certainly neopagans of whatever religious stripe who are
criminals, just as there are percentages of criminals in
any human group, Wicca was not founded by anyone indicted
of criminal activity such as defrauding people, unlike,
say Sun Myung Moon or L.Ron Hubbard.
We also don't claim to follow any One True Faith, nor
claim any moral certainty thereby, and then whine about
being victims of persecution.
Though you're entitled to believe as you wish, any abuses
of people done by the Unification Church cannot be
condoned, period.
--
Starshadow
Eric B. Richardson wrote:
> In article <lbyron-F488F4....@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com>,
> "Eric B. Richardson" <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <3C6E8D27...@starshadow.net>,
>> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>>
>
> Oh, one last thing, Starshadow. You give real wiccans a bad name.
>
I thought you'd plonked me.
BTW, you wouldn't know a "real wiccan" if you tripped
over one, any more than you would know a real human if you
tripped over one.
Starshadow
Steven Dufour wrote:
> "Eric B. Richardson" <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> writes:
>
>>In article <lbyron-F488F4....@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com>,
>> "Eric B. Richardson" <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <3C6E8D27...@starshadow.net>,
>>> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>>>
>>Oh, one last thing, Starshadow. You give real wiccans a bad name.
>>
>
> I also have some Wiccan friends and Starshadow's attitude is not typical.
>
If your "Wiccan friends" condone criminal abuse of the law
and people, then they're probably what most Wiccans call
"white light and bunny" fuzzbrains.
They wouldn't understand honest anger at such abuse if it
bit them. And they don't look below the pretty words of
your god Moon to see the gaping maw of the devourer,
more's the pity, any more than you do.
>
>>--
>>You have the right to remain silent. Anything you
>>say will be misquoted, then used against you.
>>
>>I am @home wherever I am. Send email there.
>>
>
Steven Dufour
> You are a Moonie, and the moonies and scientology is sleeping in the same
> bed. That became clear when the criminal Moon devils supported
> scientology in Europe.
Many people, including the US government, protested when Germany and France
passed laws against Scientology.
Birgitta
And btw .... Starshadows REAL name is Starshadow.
Bid
On 17 Feb 2002 05:38:07 -0500, x <naa...@vhost.shocking.com> wrote:
>In alt.religion.scientology Eric B. Richardson <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>
>> For the record, I don't care who ptsc is, I was defending his right to
>> be anon, and not make his id readily known. It is not obvious even if
>> your little itty bitty clique on ars knows. Who cares? I don't.
>
>> Neither do I care if your little wiccan cult name is starshadow, and
>> that you disliked your parents' religion and your parents so much that
>> you just had to go and make it legal. Who cares? I don't. Don't bother
>> to tell me where to go or what to do, because I really don't care about
>> your silly game.
>
>...is starshadow a wiggan? How absolutly delightful to know that. :) She
>likes to jump in shouting what people should think. Funny thou, that she
>calls herself a lesbian even is getting orders from her horny master, ya know
>the man with also a tail and red eyes. :)
>
>> Other than you are a silly idiot who signs his/her name as belonging to
>> a cult that people are intent on proving rapes, kills and eats little
>> kids and drinks their blood in satanic rites of abuse. But if you are so
>> busy accusing others of being criminal and so busy accusing others of
>> being idiots, but you enjoy pretending you are a wiccan, its no skin off
>> my nose.
>
>...where did starshadow sign in?
Heffer
Dufour) wrote:
>An interesting point has been brought up.
Sure. Considering that Scientology can't get
control of ARS, its time to try and get the
populace to nail a few people to some religious
stakes.
>Why is it that a person would spend hours
>every day on the Internet putting down some
>religion?
'Some' religion? Or more specifically, Scientology?
Given that Scientology isn't a religion, and I don't
count the IRS an authority on religion or modern
art, that question is away from the point.
What you meant to ask is "Why is it that some people
don't like Scientology perverting the course of
justice and misleading the public for power and profit?"
America's legal records are replete with the abuses
of Scientology theft, gov't infiltration, tax evasion
and more.
>I've cross-posted this to several
>groups that have lots of negators.
I suspect that most of them don't give a fuck and that
in the eyes of the average Christian, Scientology is
the work of the Devil and its followers the spawn of
Satan's Demons.
Heffer
Heffer
cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>Steven Dufour claims to be a member of the Moonies, another cult led by a
>convicted felon. The convicted felon "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon and the
>convicted felon L. Ron Hubbard.
He must be an OSA plant to ensure that the Moonies
are kept under observation and gather data should
the "Moon phase" get out of control and compete
with the Elronian Empire too much on home soil.
I doubt any Moony would concern himself with
internet attacks on Scientology.
Heffer
James J. Lippard
>> ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT cryptofortress DOT com> wrote:
>>
>>
Really? Why? I thought his contributions to this thread were
quite reasonable. It's apparent that Sten was mistaken, and
his mistake was caused by jumping to a false conclusion. That
practice is bad whether done by a believer in a cult, a skeptic,
or a critic.
In my view, the best defense against falling into a cult is
critical thinking. Encouraging critical thinking needs to be
done across the board, because the next cult that comes along
could be one that targets disbelievers. I've seen cult-like
thinking in organized skepticism and organized opposition to
cults as well as in cults themselves. It is foolish, in my
opinion, to replace cult-like thinking with cultish anti-cult
thinking. It's better to replace cult-like thinking with critical
thinking.
> and for the record my name is my real and legal one. But
> then criminal moron cultists will go to any lengths to
> defend their crime cults, won't they, including screaming
> "bigot" anytime anyone points out their crimes.
This is non-responsive to the point being made--an evasion,
if you will.
People who don't admit their own mistakes shouldn't be taken
seriously.
[rest of rant deleted]
--
Jim Lippard lippard...@discord.org http://www.discord.org/
GPG Key ID: 0xF8D42CFE
James J. Lippard
you interpret him in such a manner.
LaserClam
>Geeze, that's not a church either. It's the god damned Moonie cult.
>Scientology is not a church either. You're both god damned criminal mafia
>cults.
>
>establishment.
>
>and Hubbard.
Are you trying to prevent others from finding out that you are a
criminal asshole?
R. L. Measures
> Your assertation is that ALL critics do is name call. That is incorrect.
> There is awareness raising, pickets, leafleting, and many other
> effective ways to protest. All of them are in use. You seem to be trying
> to paint all critics with one brush. What is your motivation?
> Queso
>
€ a smokescreen?
--
Rich, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures (radio)
www.vcnet.com/measures/library.html (org. religion)
R. L. Measures
fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour) wrote:
> El Queso <the_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > Your assertation is that ALL critics do is name call. That is incorrect.
> > There is awareness raising, pickets, leafleting, and many other
> > effective ways to protest. All of them are in use. You seem to be trying
> > to paint all critics with one brush. What is your motivation?
>
> Hi Queso, To answer your question: I'm a member of the Unification Church. At
> our NG there are a number of people who spend their time criticizing our
church. ... ...
€ To find out why, read Steve Hassan's book *Combatting Cult Mind Control*.
R. L. Measures
fourd...@earthlink.net (Steven Dufour) wrote:
€ The best vaccine against $cientology is public information on how it
works. During Prohibition (1920-1933) , people consumed more alcohol
than before or after. Giving government unlimited authority to pass laws
is like giving a teenage boy car-keys and whisky.
LaserClam
>I suspect that most of them don't give a fuck and that
>in the eyes of the average Christian, Scientology is
>the work of the Devil and its followers the spawn of
>Satan's Demons.
Have you noticed any one else connected to the work of the Devil?
Birgitta
>Birgitta <xe...@post.netlink.se> wrote:
>> Whats a wiggan?
>
Whats a wiggan?
>
>> And btw .... Starshadows REAL name is Starshadow.
>
>...no it's not. :)
It isn't ? What is it then?
Bid
DilbertPerkins
OSA plants are hypocrites. She's an internet gay-basher too.
Starshadow
x wrote:
> In alt.religion.scientology Eric B. Richardson <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>For the record, I don't care who ptsc is, I was defending his right to
>>be anon, and not make his id readily known. It is not obvious even if
>>your little itty bitty clique on ars knows. Who cares? I don't.
>>
>
>>Neither do I care if your little wiccan cult name is starshadow, and
>>that you disliked your parents' religion and your parents so much that
>>you just had to go and make it legal. Who cares? I don't. Don't bother
>>to tell me where to go or what to do, because I really don't care about
>>your silly game.
>>
>
> ...is starshadow a wiggan? How absolutly delightful to know that. :) She
> likes to jump in shouting what people should think. Funny thou, that she
> calls herself a lesbian even is getting orders from her horny master, ya know
> the man with also a tail and red eyes. :)
Wiccan, Sonja. I realize you are illiterate, but this
takes the cake. And Wiccans have no master, especially
ones with tails and red eyes. Quit looking in the mirror
for inspiration for your idiotic responses.
>
>
>>Other than you are a silly idiot who signs his/her name as belonging to
>>a cult that people are intent on proving rapes, kills and eats little
>>kids and drinks their blood in satanic rites of abuse. But if you are so
>>busy accusing others of being criminal and so busy accusing others of
>>being idiots, but you enjoy pretending you are a wiccan, its no skin off
>>my nose.
>>
>
> ...where did starshadow sign in?
>
>
Yeah, right, I eat little kids and drink their blood. Uh,
huh. And the Easter Bunny is really Satan in disguise, and
watch out for that nice couple down the block. What idiots
some Xtian culties are.
El Queso
reasonable discussion isn't happening?
Queso
Eric B. Richardson
2...@vc.net (R. L. Measures) wrote:
> > Hi Queso, To answer your question: I'm a member of the Unification Church.
> > At
> > our NG there are a number of people who spend their time criticizing our
> church. ... ...
>
> € To find out why, read Steve Hassan's book *Combatting Cult Mind Control*.
>
Look Steve just claimed that he was trained to kill by the UC in USA
Today. Why should I listen to a liar?
James J. Lippard
to name-calling, which is certainly the case within this thread.
R. L. Measures
B. Richardson" <lby...@nocospmcamast.net> wrote:
> In article <2-1702020...@port69.dial.vcnet.com>,
> 2...@vc.net (R. L. Measures) wrote:
>
> > > Hi Queso, To answer your question: I'm a member of the Unification
Church.
> > > At
> > > our NG there are a number of people who spend their time criticizing our
> > church. ... ...
> >
> > € To find out why, read Steve Hassan's book *Combatting Cult Mind Control*.
> >
>
> Look Steve just claimed that he was trained to kill by the UC in USA
> Today. Why should I listen to a liar?
€ Zzzzzz
Steven Dufour
> 2...@vc.net (R. L. Measures) wrote:
>
> > > Hi Queso, To answer your question: I'm a member of the Unification Church.
> > > At
> > > our NG there are a number of people who spend their time criticizing our
> > church. ... ...
> >
> > € To find out why, read Steve Hassan's book *Combatting Cult Mind Control*.
> >
>
> Look Steve just claimed that he was trained to kill by the UC in USA
> Today. Why should I listen to a liar?
He also claims that he can solve the problem of terrorism.
Starshadow
was as cool as you or I. (Or virtually anyone on the ng,
actually. Or on Usenet in general.)
Birgitta wrote:
Starshadow
x wrote:
> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
>>Wiccan, Sonja. I realize you are illiterate, but this
>>takes the cake. And Wiccans have no master, especially
>>ones with tails and red eyes. Quit looking in the mirror
>>for inspiration for your idiotic responses.
>>
>
> ...you mean satan isn't your master, but you are a good wiccan? The healer
> perhaps? You heal people with your spells?
>
If you weren't illiterate you'd probably know that Wiccans
don't believe in or worship any such diety as "Satan".
But then you'd also not be such a waste of bandwidth.
I'm through playing with you for a while, Sonja, you're
getting boring. Again.
DilbertPerkins
Starshadow and Tory countless times. She NEVER criticizes Scientology, yet she
claims she is a critic. Sounds like an OSA plant to me! She says "I never lie",
and anyone who says THAT is certainly not to be trusted.
Hey X, or Sonja, or whatever. Post OTIII and OTVIII, and then we MIGHT believe
you when you say your'e not OSA.
James J. Lippard
> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
>> If you weren't illiterate you'd probably know that Wiccans
>> don't believe in or worship any such diety as "Satan".
>
> meaning of the word into something else.
News to me. I've read a bit about modern Wicca and its origins in the
writings of Gerald Gardner--I don't know of any mention of Satan in Wicca.
Can you elaborate?
Elizabeth Ann Cox
dupe, and posting puppet. :)
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
aka, Bunnyann
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
ARS Chic with attitude!
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
"x" <naa...@vhost.shocking.com> wrote in message
news:3c70...@news2.lightlink.com...
> DilbertPerkins <dilbert...@aol.com> wrote:
> > x nanoo nanoo, what a bore. All she does is attack critics. She has
attacked
> > Starshadow and Tory countless times. She NEVER criticizes Scientology,
yet she
>
> ...i haven't attacked anyone, sure is funny how two innocent questions
turns into some
> giant conspiracy. :)
>
> ...and what does starshadow exactly critizises? She claims to be a wiccan
with psychic
> capabilities. What's the diffirence between scn claiming OT's has these
super powers?
> If starshadow prepresents critics, and i know she preprresents flukenet
critics, then
> i sure as hell don't want to be a critic.
>
> > claims she is a critic. Sounds like an OSA plant to me! She says "I
never lie",
> > and anyone who says THAT is certainly not to be trusted.
>
> ...well you belive that a wiccan who claims to have psychic powers is a
critic, so that
> much of your credibility.
>
> > Hey X, or Sonja, or whatever. Post OTIII and OTVIII, and then we MIGHT
believe
> > you when you say your'e not OSA.
>
> ...whos we? And why do you want me to post copyrighted material that would
lead me into
> court? We know how arnie and henson tried that and ended into jury
awarding scn into
> one of the biggest payments in copyright history. Really, why do you want
me to do that?
>
>
> --
> spt
Starshadow
x wrote:
> Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>
>
>>If you weren't illiterate you'd probably know that Wiccans
>>don't believe in or worship any such diety as "Satan".
>>
>
> ...yes they do, unless you american wiccans have twisted the original
> meaning of the word into something else.
>
Yeah, Sonja, that's why the founders of Wicca (who were
English, not American, of course) never mention such a
diety. You know all, of course.
>
>
>>I'm through playing with you for a while, Sonja, you're
>>getting boring. Again.
>>
>
> ...ooh, howcome it's everytime that a psychic is challenged to demostrate
> their powers, they runaway. Everytime!
What running away? I simply said you're boring. I've made
several predictions about you, Sonja, each of which has
come true. I've predicted you will natter on and on and
cannot bear to let anyone else have the last word, and I
predict that you will do the same to this reply to you.
Oh, wait, that's not psychic. You ALWAYS behave thus.
My bad.
> Then again you are not a psychic and know why? Because it's against the laws
> of a nature. And laws of nature has never been broken. It's impossible, therefor
> you whiney wiccan psychic, all thats left, is that you are a fraud and a fake. A
> liar that is so pathetic that for the burning desire of being, well something,
> you started to belive that you are a person who has skills that are againts
> the laws of nature. When challenged to demostrate your skills you runaway. As
> imposters always does.
>
>
Whatever, Sonja, you waste of oxygen, you.
Human Rights Defense (ShyDavid)
<lippard...@discord.org> wrote:
> In article <3c70...@news2.lightlink.com>, x wrote:
> > Starshadow <stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
> >> If you weren't illiterate you'd probably know that Wiccans
> >> don't believe in or worship any such diety as "Satan".
> > ...yes they do,
Er, no. Odd how a non-Wiccan is telling Wiccans what they do and
do not believe in and who they do and do not worship.
>> unless you american wiccans have twisted the original
> > meaning of the word into something else.
Wicce: 1) to bend, to shape; 2) wise.
> News to me. I've read a bit about modern Wicca and its
> origins in the writings of Gerald Gardner--I don't know
> of any mention of Satan in Wicca.
Only when we discuss Christanity.
> Can you elaborate?
>
> --
> Jim Lippard lippard...@discord.org http://www.discord.org/
> GPG Key ID: 0xF8D42CFE
----
http://www.prozac.com
http://www.paxil.com
http://www.celexa.com
http://www.zoloft.com
"Dude, you scream like an eight-year-old girl on helium." -- Exploitation Now
Human Rights Defense (ShyDavid)
wrote:
> James J. Lippard <lippard...@discord.org> wrote:
>
> > News to me. I've read a bit about modern Wicca and its origins in the
> > writings of Gerald Gardner--I don't know of any mention of Satan in Wicca.
The following is a fine example of pure bullshit, derived
unsoiled by facts and valid information from those intellectually
honest scholars Jack Chick, Pat Robertson, Mike Warnket, and
their ilk.
> ...feminine of wicca is wicce and means evil witch in old english. There used to be
> several types of wiches t.e.x Diane's witches which modern wiccans still use as
> their godness. They did belive in satan. In hebrew satan is called Shaitan which
> means opponent. So technically one can say that everyone who are against christianity
> are worshipping satan.
>
>
> ...what it comes to gardner, he was wrong on many things. As a metter of fact he based his belives
> in that it was based on ancient witch covens. Which is of course yadda, yadda
> as is whole wiccanism. It's much more fruitful to research the symbols and
> habits that they are using/practising and the origin of those. For example
> starshadows calims that she is a psychic. Wonder when she shal give a demonstration
> of this skill of hers that would change the bases of world as modern science sees it.
>
>
> --
> spt
AngloSaxon, wicca is masculine wicce, feminine; and means a
person who Divines information. Old English, wicce Saxon, wych;
means ‘to turn, bend, and shape’. IndoEuropean root word of ‘wic’
‘weik’; also means ‘to bend or shape’. Germanic ‘wit’, means
knowledge, or to know. Including ‘witch’ as one of its
derivatives.
Dave Bird
Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> writes:
>An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would spend
Because it bites people.
Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid selling scheme with a thin veneer
of religion added to proof it against taxes, which occasionally kills
by neglect or by driving to suicide. Do not be distracted by the
small religious element.
--
' ' ' .:::. ' :: ' ' 'what do Scientologists say when ' http://www.
' (o\ /o) .::. ' you ask why their money-grubbing ' xemu.demon.
' \ " / XEMU ' killed a woman by starvation? ' co.uk '
' '-' :::: ' - - - -http://www.lisatrust.net - ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' :v: \'''| ' BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT '
' ;;\:::/;;\/ / ' OO / / \ ? '
' ;;;;;;;;;BEER ' (~~) .00 @@-._ \ '
' WithAKick\/ ' ( ) ( =) (O ) ( ") (" )
' 'LikeAnHBomb ' ' ' ' ^^^^ ' ' ^^ ^^ ' ' ' ' ^^ ^^ ' ' "" ' ""
see the famous frogs at http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html
bbaker
"Dave Bird" <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LdqACbD$cad8...@xemu.demon.co.uk...
> In article<k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would
spend
> >hours every day on the Internet putting down
> a mad dog?
>
> Because it bites people.
>
"Organized religion"
Bryon Lape
> In article<k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would spend
> >hours every day on the Internet putting down
> a mad dog?
>
> Because it bites people.
>
> Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid selling scheme with a thin veneer
> of religion added to proof it against taxes, which occasionally kills
> by neglect or by driving to suicide. Do not be distracted by the
> small religious element.
Ok, I'll bite, what do they sell?
Gabby
"Bryon Lape" <aint...@noway.com> wrote in message
news:3C7790F8...@noway.com...
personality test. Along with a friend I went to take said test. Then I was
informed that I was deficient in "communications skills" and that they had
the perfect course to offer me -- at a price. Strangely enough my friend,
who had answered the test questions differently, was also informed that she
lacked communications skills and that they had the perfect course for her.
It was interesting that at the time we were both nursing students and that
both of us were getting high marks for our communications skills. We
decided these people were full of it and left.
Suzanne
Steven Dufour
> Dave Bird wrote:
>
> > In article<k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> writes:
> > >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would
spend
> > >hours every day on the Internet putting down
> > a mad dog?
> >
> > Because it bites people.
> >
> > Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid selling scheme with a thin veneer
> > of religion added to proof it against taxes, which occasionally kills
> > by neglect or by driving to suicide. Do not be distracted by the
> > small religious element.
>
> Ok, I'll bite, what do they sell?
Pyramids.
Feisty
Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:AcOd8.10556$0C1.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Franchise business for gummy pyramids anyone?
Feisty
>
>
Starshadow
Bryon Lape wrote:
Nothing, but packaged real prettily. Don't be fooled.
They tout themselves as both a religion and a "science"
and claim to give you tools to help you cope with all of
your problems. They lie.
And they are worse than you think. Check out www.xenu.net
for details.
Dave Bird
For those who haven't come across $cientology yet, it is a quack
form of psychotherapy with some elements of reincarnation and SciFi;
no god or worship is involved. It is supposed to make fit people
"more able": free from colds and athsma, perfect memory, even power
to move objects without material means. Needless to say, initiates
have poor memory, regular illness, and never demonstrated OT powers.
It is done by "auditing" (talking out harmful memories), and a series
of courses on communications, problems, physical purification, etc
Auditing costs $100 per hour, and the eight grades cost $2200 each;
higher courses are in the tens of thousands.
-- . . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, dos, tres, |FUEGO| .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' ' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRon Hubbard is shelled by goats in hell <www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/ >
Bryon Lape
> In article<3C7790F8...@noway.com>, Bryon Lape writes:
> >Dave Bird wrote:
> >
> >> In article<k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> >> Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >> >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would
> >spend
> >> >hours every day on the Internet putting down
> >> a mad dog?
> >>
> >> Because it bites people.
> >>
> >> Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid selling scheme with a thin veneer
> >> of religion added to proof it against taxes, which occasionally kills
> >> by neglect or by driving to suicide. Do not be distracted by the
> >> small religious element.
> >
> >Ok, I'll bite, what do they sell?
>
> For those who haven't come across $cientology yet, it is a quack
> form of psychotherapy with some elements of reincarnation and SciFi;
> no god or worship is involved. It is supposed to make fit people
> "more able": free from colds and athsma, perfect memory, even power
> to move objects without material means. Needless to say, initiates
> have poor memory, regular illness, and never demonstrated OT powers.
> It is done by "auditing" (talking out harmful memories), and a series
> of courses on communications, problems, physical purification, etc
Gee...kinda sounds like Neo-Tech.....
Dave Bird
>> >> >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person would
>> >spend
>> >> >hours every day on the Internet putting down
>> >> a mad dog?
>> >>
>> >> Because it bites people.
>> >>
>> >> Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid selling scheme with a thin veneer
>> >> of religion added to proof it against taxes, which occasionally kills
>> >> by neglect or by driving to suicide. Do not be distracted by the
>> >> small religious element.
>> >
>> >Ok, I'll bite, what do they sell?
>>
>> For those who haven't come across $cientology yet, it is a quack
>> form of psychotherapy with some elements of reincarnation and SciFi;
>> no god or worship is involved. It is supposed to make fit people
>> "more able": free from colds and athsma, perfect memory, even power
>> to move objects without material means. Needless to say, initiates
>> have poor memory, regular illness, and never demonstrated OT powers.
>> It is done by "auditing" (talking out harmful memories), and a series
>> of courses on communications, problems, physical purification, etc
>
>Gee...kinda sounds like Neo-Tech.....
That's because Zon-Powder IS Scientology, combined with other
(incompatible) nonsense by another loonie author called Ayn Rand.
__ .\|/////..
||_.-' '. /\\|// ----
// ; | -----
--._// .\|/. .==== =====. ---
(( //(####) \d]>||<[d]>\ (~\ The only real crime for which
|| v '--'\\ . | \ | one can be punished by govern-
|| ; v . {_ \ : \/ ments of today is lack of money.
// .' : .'___' : ' In other crimes, if one has the
// ; '. ~===~ /\ huge sums necessary to hire
// . .... o : /__\'''' / \ lawyers, one can often get off.
. \\\\~~~~|~~~~~~~|\\ / /\/,,,L.RON HUBBARD,
. | .\''. |/''''/.|,,\\ //,,,,,,,Phat Dead Phounder of
'.|: O :|[ / ]|,,,,\/,,,,,,,,, the $cientology cult.
----------------| '...' |[__O__]|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[in HCOPL 20/sept/76]---------
|_______|_______|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nico Kadel-Garcia
The upfront literature sells "improve your life" lessons and seminars. The
inner materials sells miracle cures, past-life recovery, exorcism of evil
spirits, and blackmail payments to keep silent the crimes or misdeeds you
confess to under the polygraph called the "e-meter" which are recorded and
faxed to the main offices. They don't mention the fax part in any of the
literature, but it has been confirmed by numerous former members and by
their own trial testimony. It's particularly useful for them to discredit
you if you leave the cult and ever testify against them.
The fraud part is where they never admit what you're really signing up for,
such as the part about all your bad thoughts and illnesses being reborn
galactic citizens ("thetans") slaughtered by the galactic emporor Xenu
(which you learn about in Operating Thetan, Level III, the so-called "Wall
of Fire" before they renumbered things).
The pyramid scheme is where you become such a cool $cientologist you drag in
all your friends and make your money auditing them to pay for your own
auditing and rise in the ranks of $cientologist. Near as we can tell,
they've been shrinking for a few years now, ever since the Internet became
popular and people could easily obtain more detailed information about them
without having the copies of critical books stolen from libraries and
bookstores. No, I'm not kidding about this!
Android Cat
through lightlink which doesn't have most of them.)
"Nico Kadel-Garcia" <nka...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:tRce8.65$bZ4...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "Bryon Lape" <aint...@noway.com> wrote in message
> news:3C7790F8...@noway.com...
> > Dave Bird wrote:
> >
> > > In
article<k3db8.11484$P21.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > > Steven Dufour <fourd...@earthlink.net> writes:
> > > >An interesting point has been brought up. Why is it that a person
> would spend
> > > >hours every day on the Internet putting down
> > > a mad dog?
> > >
> > > Because it bites people.
> > >
> > > Scientology is a fraudulent pyramid selling scheme with a thin
veneer
> > > of religion added to proof it against taxes, which occasionally
kills
> > > by neglect or by driving to suicide. Do not be distracted by the
> > > small religious element.
> >
> > Ok, I'll bite, what do they sell?
>
> The upfront literature sells "improve your life" lessons and seminars.
The sad part is that there's usually all sorts of courses on confidence
building and public speaking available through local educational systems
as night courses and what-not that cost pennies relative to $cientology.
I urge people to check out the various websites. (Plus fun courses in
hiking, self-defence, etc.)
> The
> inner materials sells miracle cures, past-life recovery, exorcism of
evil
> spirits, and blackmail payments to keep silent the crimes or misdeeds
you
> confess to under the polygraph called the "e-meter" which are recorded
and
> faxed to the main offices. They don't mention the fax part in any of the
> literature, but it has been confirmed by numerous former members and by
> their own trial testimony. It's particularly useful for them to
discredit
> you if you leave the cult and ever testify against them.
The e-meter is a piss-poor polygraph. It only really works on people
conditioned to react to "this is the session". The Ontario Provincial
Police infiltrated two people all the way into GO. (Where they read
stolen documents writen by their superiors in the OPP. Surreal!)
> The fraud part is where they never admit what you're really signing up
for,
> such as the part about all your bad thoughts and illnesses being reborn
> galactic citizens ("thetans") slaughtered by the galactic emporor Xenu
> (which you learn about in Operating Thetan, Level III, the so-called
"Wall
> of Fire" before they renumbered things).
He was hardly the emperor of the gaLAXy. A mere 120 planets. Oddly
enough, that's the same size as the Voltron empire in the Mission Earth
series. I think Hubbard was in a rut.
> The pyramid scheme is where you become such a cool $cientologist you
drag in
> all your friends and make your money auditing them to pay for your own
> auditing and rise in the ranks of $cientologist.
And disconnecting from them if they say "this is fscking nuts!"
> Near as we can tell,
> they've been shrinking for a few years now, ever since the Internet
became
> popular and people could easily obtain more detailed information about
them
> without having the copies of critical books stolen from libraries and
> bookstores. No, I'm not kidding about this!
Don't forget the scam being told to go out and buy multiple copies of
Hubbard's sci-fi (and $cientology sci-fi) and turning them back in to be
resold to bookstores -- all to pump up Hubbard's "bestseller" status.
Altered photos to fill in empty seats. "The man with no head". And then
there's the bogus "Volunteer Ministers". Oh yeah, and the "One Week
Course" "Religious" Ministers.
Ron of that ilk.