In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
@gmail.com writes:
Hi Chuck,
I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
Here it is:
"Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
"I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
"I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my uncle.
"In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
"I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it a step further and tell outright lies.
"You go so far as to state:
'7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to their family if they don't support the religion?
'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
"As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided not to go with them.
"Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched me read them and asked me to comment on them.
"I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
"For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of getting found out about.
"Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of what Kirsten Caetano has done!
"You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice that? Absolutely not!
" I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other members of their family and even their children still involved in the Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of there names together-these people's families are crying every day because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave the Church of their own free will.
"If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
"I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will resist.
"I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families together!
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
What an excellent testimonial to the destruction of families by Scientology's crazy "disconnection" policy! Bravo, Jenna, for speaking out so well, and for your courage in doing so. I would be very interested in reading about more of your personal experiences. Michael.
On Jan 24, 11:32 pm, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> wrote:
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
Wow.
Thank you for posting this.
It should be sent to Morton's publisher and to all networks and newspapers covering this story. It should be sent to all locations that received Karin's official rebuttal to Morton's book.
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
Thank you for telling your story, these are the thing that us that have never been "in" need to see.
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
This week I heard Pat Harney say something about it: the CULT wouldn't be doing that. Well, this tells quite different. I have posted this letter on my website: The more people read it, the more it damages the CULT.
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX > @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
Whoa! She writes good letter! And the last sentence is Gold!
Michael Pattinson wrote: > On Jan 24, 11:32 pm, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> > wrote: >> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
>> @gmail.com writes:
>> Hi Chuck,
>> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would >> enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
>> Here it is:
>> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
>> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having >> read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
>> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David >> Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my >> uncle.
>> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
>> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom >> Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked >> at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that >> have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it >> a step further and tell outright lies.
>> "You go so far as to state:
>> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to >> their family if they don't support the religion?
>> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the >> Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
>> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 >> in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and >> thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided >> not to go with them.
>> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to >> answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. >> To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one >> Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious >> Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and >> my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd >> in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the >> former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can >> thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had >> seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I >> receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched >> me read them and asked me to comment on them.
>> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year >> for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) >> threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even >> then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I >> saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is >> interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or >> finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, >> etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar >> to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which >> was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
>> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt >> Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them >> know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them >> because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. >> Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not >> in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling >> as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had >> to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of >> getting found out about.
>> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in >> Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise >> Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his >> girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way >> over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- >> member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the >> Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you >> belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida >> working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is >> an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was >> disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did >> this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she >> lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of >> what Kirsten Caetano has done!
>> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes >> with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to >> "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice >> that? Absolutely not!
>> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family >> members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves >> ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other >> members of their family and even their children still involved in the >> Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children >> because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a >> widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of >> there names together-these people's families are crying every day >> because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave >> the Church of their own free will.
>> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me >> and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still >> part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, >> Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, >> "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, >> there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
>> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you >> categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this >> letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will >> resist.
>> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and >> time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the >> high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families >> you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige >> himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then >> why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families >> together!
>> "Best,
>> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
> What an excellent testimonial to the destruction of families by > Scientology's crazy "disconnection" policy! > Bravo, Jenna, for speaking out so well, and for your courage in doing > so. > I would be very interested in reading about more of your personal > experiences. > Michael.
If SHE wrote a book, it'd be an instant hit. She writes well, and knows things we'd all like to know.
Discussion subject changed to "Miscavige's neice speaks up on disconnection and family self-silencingthat is real to her....in response to Karin Pouw" by Kim P
barb wrote: > chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote: >> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX >> @gmail.com writes:
>> Hi Chuck,
>> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would >> enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
>> Here it is:
>> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
>> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having >> read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
>> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David >> Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my >> uncle.
>> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
>> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom >> Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked >> at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that >> have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it >> a step further and tell outright lies.
>> "You go so far as to state:
>> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to >> their family if they don't support the religion?
>> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the >> Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
>> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 >> in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and >> thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided >> not to go with them.
>> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to >> answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. >> To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one >> Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious >> Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and >> my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd >> in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the >> former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can >> thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had >> seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I >> receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched >> me read them and asked me to comment on them.
>> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year >> for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) >> threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even >> then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I >> saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is >> interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or >> finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, >> etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar >> to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which >> was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
>> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt >> Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them >> know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them >> because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. >> Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not >> in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling >> as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had >> to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of >> getting found out about.
>> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in >> Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise >> Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his >> girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way >> over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- >> member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the >> Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you >> belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida >> working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is >> an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was >> disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did >> this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she >> lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of >> what Kirsten Caetano has done!
>> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes >> with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to >> "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice >> that? Absolutely not!
>> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family >> members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves >> ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other >> members of their family and even their children still involved in the >> Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children >> because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a >> widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of >> there names together-these people's families are crying every day >> because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave >> the Church of their own free will.
>> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me >> and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still >> part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, >> Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, >> "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, >> there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
>> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you >> categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this >> letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will >> resist.
>> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and >> time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the >> high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families >> you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige >> himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then >> why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families >> together!
>> "Best,
>> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
> Whoa! She writes good letter! And the last sentence is Gold!
This needs to be seen by the media and explored further - I am sure there are lots of stories about disconnection and family break ups due to scienotlogy's immoral policies in this area. This is the kind of information that needs to known widely.
Discussion subject changed to "Miscavige's neice speaks up on disconnection and family self-silencing that is real to her....in response to Karin Pouw" by R. Hill
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
This is great. The more light is shed like this on the malevolent practices of the Church of Scientology, the more difficult it is for the enablers to keep these ongoing. I sure hope this letter makes it to the media, it deserve to be published as an answer to Karin Pouw's press release.
>In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX >@gmail.com writes:
>Hi Chuck,
>I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would >enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
>Here it is:
>"Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
>"I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having >read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
>"I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David >Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my >uncle.
>"In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
>"I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom >Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked >at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that >have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it >a step further and tell outright lies.
>"You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to >their family if they don't support the religion?
>'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the >Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
>"As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 >in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and >thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided >not to go with them.
>"Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to >answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. >To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one >Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious >Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and >my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd >in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the >former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can >thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had >seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I >receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched >me read them and asked me to comment on them.
>"I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year >for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) >threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even >then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I >saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is >interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or >finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, >etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar >to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which >was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
>"For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt >Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them >know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them >because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. >Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not >in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling >as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had >to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of >getting found out about.
>"Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in >Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise >Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his >girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way >over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- >member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the >Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you >belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida >working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is >an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was >disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did >this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she >lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of >what Kirsten Caetano has done!
>"You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes >with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to >"believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice >that? Absolutely not!
>" I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family >members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves >ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other >members of their family and even their children still involved in the >Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children >because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a >widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of >there names together-these people's families are crying every day >because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave >the Church of their own free will.
>"If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me >and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still >part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, >Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, >"it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, >there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
>"I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you >categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this >letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will >resist.
>"I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and >time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the >high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families >you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige >himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then >why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families >together!
> On Jan 25, 5:32 am, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> > wrote:
> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> > @gmail.com writes:
> > Hi Chuck,
> > I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> > Here it is:
> > "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> > "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> > "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > > uncle.
> > "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> > "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > > a step further and tell outright lies.
> > "You go so far as to state:
> > '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > > their family if they don't support the religion?
> > 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> > "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > > not to go with them.
> > "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> > "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> > "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > > getting found out about.
> > "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> > "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > > that? Absolutely not!
> > " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > > the Church of their own free will.
> > "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> > "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > > resist.
> > "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > > together!
> > "Best,
> > "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
> This is great. The more light is shed like this on the malevolent > practices of the Church of Scientology, the more difficult it is for > the enablers to keep these ongoing. I sure hope this letter makes it > to the media, it deserve to be published as an answer to Karin Pouw's > press release.
> Ray.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Further irony regarding Scientology spokesperson Karin Pouw is that Karin is out of touch with her parents, non Scientologists, who reportedly hear from Karin infrequently.
It's all a small world when anyone starts asking about the deteriorated familial relationships due to the disconnection and "PTS/ SP" policies of Scientology.
Hubbard PTS doctrines negatively effect literally EVERY Scientologist who applies those doctrines, even the PR spokesperson members like Karin who mouth defenses for those doctrines.
And they all know it, but Hubbard's rules predominate.
This is the permanently classic built in fault of Scientology.
People have jobs defending the indefensible, just because Hubbard said these are the rules they must follow.
They are just following orders, because of Hubbard's written rules.
Chuck Beatty 412-260-1170 Pittsburgh ex Sea Org member (1975-2003) ex members, please phone with news
> On Jan 25, 11:39 am, "R. Hill" <rh...@xenu-directory.net> wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 5:32 am, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> > > wrote:
> > > In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> > > @gmail.com writes:
> > > Hi Chuck,
> > > I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > > > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> > > Here it is:
> > > "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> > > "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > > > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> > > "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > > > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > > > uncle.
> > > "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> > > "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > > > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > > > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > > > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > > > a step further and tell outright lies.
> > > "You go so far as to state:
> > > '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > > > their family if they don't support the religion?
> > > 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > > > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> > > "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > > > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > > > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > > > not to go with them.
> > > "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > > > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > > > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > > > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > > > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > > > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > > > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > > > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > > > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > > > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > > > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > > > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> > > "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > > > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > > > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > > > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > > > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > > > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > > > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > > > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > > > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > > > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> > > "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > > > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > > > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > > > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > > > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > > > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > > > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > > > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > > > getting found out about.
> > > "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > > > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > > > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > > > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > > > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > > > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > > > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > > > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > > > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > > > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > > > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > > > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > > > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > > > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> > > "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > > > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > > > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > > > that? Absolutely not!
> > > " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > > > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > > > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > > > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > > > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > > > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > > > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > > > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > > > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > > > the Church of their own free will.
> > > "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > > > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > > > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > > > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > > > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > > > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> > > "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > > > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > > > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > > > resist.
> > > "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > > > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > > > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > > > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > > > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > > > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > > > together!
> > > "Best,
> > > "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
> > This is great. The more light is shed like this on the malevolent > > practices of the Church of Scientology, the more difficult it is for > > the enablers to keep these ongoing. I sure hope this letter makes it > > to the media, it deserve to be published as an answer to Karin Pouw's > > press release.
> > Ray.- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Further irony regarding Scientology spokesperson Karin Pouw is that > Karin is out of touch with her parents, non Scientologists, who > reportedly hear from Karin infrequently.
> It's all a small world when anyone starts asking about the > deteriorated familial relationships due to the disconnection and "PTS/ > SP" policies of Scientology.
> Hubbard PTS doctrines negatively effect literally EVERY Scientologist > who applies those doctrines, even the PR spokesperson members like > Karin who mouth defenses for those doctrines.
> And they all know it, but Hubbard's rules predominate.
> This is the permanently classic built in fault of Scientology.
> People have jobs defending the indefensible, just because Hubbard said > these are the rules they must follow.
> They are just following orders, because of Hubbard's written rules.
> Chuck Beatty > 412-260-1170 Pittsburgh > ex Sea Org member (1975-2003) > ex members, please phone with news
Discussion subject changed to "Miscavige's neice speaks up on disconnection and family self-silencingthat is real to her....in response to Karin Pouw" by Hartley Patterson
> This needs to be seen by the media and explored further - I am sure > there are lots of stories about disconnection and family break ups due > to scienotlogy's immoral policies in this area. This is the kind of > information that needs to known widely.
It was on Digg very quickly, but not from ARS. Someone reposted the news onto OCMB, that was linked on Digg.
This isn't Anonymous itself, just that they hit the crest of a wave of interest and added an extra push to attract the media. ARS isn't being quoted because it isn't teh Internet (not to Anonymous or the media), not visual, so 20th century.
>> This needs to be seen by the media and explored further - I am sure >> there are lots of stories about disconnection and family break ups due >> to scienotlogy's immoral policies in this area. This is the kind of >> information that needs to known widely.
> It was on Digg very quickly, but not from ARS. Someone reposted the news > onto OCMB, that was linked on Digg.
> This isn't Anonymous itself, just that they hit the crest of a wave of > interest and added an extra push to attract the media. ARS isn't being > quoted because it isn't teh Internet (not to Anonymous or the media), not > visual, so 20th century.
does not matter how this gets out and picked up - I guess we are too old and staid for lulz but hey the information is spreading and that means more people are being exposed to the truth about the cult.
Kim P wrote: > Hartley Patterson wrote: >> yduzitmat...@cogeco.ca:
>>> This needs to be seen by the media and explored further - I am sure >>> there are lots of stories about disconnection and family break ups >>> due to scienotlogy's immoral policies in this area. This is the kind of >>> information that needs to known widely.
>> It was on Digg very quickly, but not from ARS. Someone reposted the >> news onto OCMB, that was linked on Digg.
>> This isn't Anonymous itself, just that they hit the crest of a wave of >> interest and added an extra push to attract the media. ARS isn't being >> quoted because it isn't teh Internet (not to Anonymous or the media), >> not visual, so 20th century.
> does not matter how this gets out and picked up - I guess we are too old > and staid for lulz but hey the information is spreading and that means > more people are being exposed to the truth about the cult.
Discussion subject changed to "Miscavige's neice speaks up on disconnection and family self-silencing that is real to her....in response to Karin Pouw" by Out_Of_The_Dark
> In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > uncle.
> "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > a step further and tell outright lies.
> "You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > their family if they don't support the religion?
> 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > not to go with them.
> "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > getting found out about.
> "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > that? Absolutely not!
> " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > the Church of their own free will.
> "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > resist.
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill" <
Chuck, are you assuring us that this is definately from Ron Miscavige's daughter, Jenna and that she wanted this posted about? I ask because the potential consequences from her authoring this letter are astounding, both good and possibly bad. I certainly don't want to see anything happen to her and her family because of it.
Presuming it is ok'd by her and it was written by her, here is what I have to say to her in response:
Jenna, this is a very courageous and serious stand you have taken. You have not only publicly announced opposition to a 'church' action, you have also revealed information that David Miscavige would not want other scientologists and critics to know. I am relieved to know that you and your family have left the church, but I am more than sorry to see what you and your family have had to go through. Your aunt,grandfather and step grandmother have every right to see you as you have to see them. They just don't know or have forgotten how much freedom they are entitled to. Love is an inate right and family share a bond that no law or policy has the right to separate.
Many of us former members here have been victims of or participants in disconnection. The severing of ties to loved ones by scientologists, as you so well stated, is a frequent and determined effort by scientology management. For the children, it is traumatic and overwhelming. It is to your parents credit that they fought for you, like so many others who have posted here have done or tried to do for theirs that were lost to to them via disconnection policy.
Do you think your message fell on deaf ears when you wrote that church spokesperson Karen Pouw and the church should " take the high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families together!" ? I think not. Give it some time for this message of your to really sink in for the readers. I know I cou;ln't believe it at first. It seemed too impossible. I knew that your father Ron Miscavige was no longer in the Sea Org but the fact that he officially left the church is quite another thing. It's so inspiring to see that he and your mother, despite the church's oppression, persisted and fought to have you in their life.
And here you are now, out of the church, trying to connect with family. Standing up to the oppression that robbed you of a good part of your youth. Doing it publicly, very likely inspiring so many others who have lurked behind the scenes for fear of speaking up and not wanting to hurt family members still in the church by making a big stink about what rots at the core of The Church of Scientology.
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:32:08 -0800 (PST), "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> wrote in msg <03a79e6b-3ffb-476e-89f1-8cafd7910...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
>In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX >@gmail.com writes:
>Hi Chuck,
>I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would >enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
>Here it is:
>"Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
>"I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having >read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
>"I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David >Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my >uncle.
>"In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
>"I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom >Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked >at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that >have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it >a step further and tell outright lies.
>"You go so far as to state:
> '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to >their family if they don't support the religion?
>'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the >Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
>"As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 >in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and >thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided >not to go with them.
>"Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to >answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. >To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one >Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious >Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and >my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd >in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the >former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can >thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had >seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I >receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched >me read them and asked me to comment on them.
>"I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year >for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) >threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even >then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I >saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is >interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or >finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, >etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar >to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which >was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
>"For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt >Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them >know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them >because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. >Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not >in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling >as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had >to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of >getting found out about.
>"Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in >Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise >Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his >girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way >over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- >member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the >Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you >belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida >working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is >an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was >disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did >this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she >lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of >what Kirsten Caetano has done!
>"You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes >with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to >"believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice >that? Absolutely not!
>" I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family >members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves >ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other >members of their family and even their children still involved in the >Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children >because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a >widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of >there names together-these people's families are crying every day >because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave >the Church of their own free will.
>"If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me >and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still >part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, >Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, >"it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, >there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
>"I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you >categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this >letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will >resist.
>"I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and >time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the >high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families >you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige >himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then >why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families >together!
>"Best,
>"Jenna Miscavige Hill"
Yeah, you just can't trust your family not to tell the truth about you.
Incident zero: Ron trolled them
Ever yours in fandom, Jommy Cross
--------------------------------------------------- This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth: before you hallucinate --------------------------------------------------
Discussion subject changed to "Miscavige's neice speaks up on disconnection and family self-silencing that is real to her....in response to Karin Pouw" by Jens Tingleff
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX > @gmail.com writes:
> Hi Chuck,
> I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> Here it is:
> "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
[.............]
> "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!
> "Best,
> "Jenna Miscavige Hill"
Thanks for posting this, Chuck, and thanks to Jenna for speaking out.
Best regards
Jens
- -- Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 829 985 "What's your favourite colour?" "Blue .. No! Yell-a-a-aaaaAAAARG!!" M. Python -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
On Jan 25, 8:45 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Chuck, are you assuring us that this is definately from Ron > Miscavige's daughter, Jenna and that she wanted this posted about? I > ask because the potential consequences from her authoring this letter > are astounding, both good and possibly bad. I certainly don't want to > see anything happen to her and her family because of it.
I wondered about this, too.
It's a good question.
But, from what Chuck has posted previously, Ronnie and Bitty Miscavige (Jenna's parents) helped Mike Rinder get back on his feet after his recent blow.
So, one would have to assume they've already drawn their line in the sand as far as COS goes.
> On Jan 25, 2:32 am, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> > wrote:
> > In a message dated 1/24/2008 10:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, XXX
> > @gmail.com writes:
> > Hi Chuck,
> > I have a letter below from a friend of a friend and thought you would > > enjoy it and would be able to get it out everywhere you could.
> > Here it is:
> > "Dear Karin [Pouw, spokesperson for official Scientology],
> > "I could not resist the opportunity to write you this letter having > > read your official rebuttal regarding the Tom Cruise biography.
> > "I have been involved in the Church of Scientology since birth. David > > Miscavige as you well know is my father's brother, making him my > > uncle.
> > "In fact you and I actually know each other although not very well.
> > "I cannot comment on your responses regarding the personal life of Tom > > Cruise because I know nothing about this, but I am absolutely shocked > > at how vehemently you insist upon not only denying the truths that > > have been stated about the Church in that biography, but then take it > > a step further and tell outright lies.
> > "You go so far as to state:
> > '7. Does Scientology encourage their members not to speak to > > their family if they don't support the religion?
> > 'This allegation is not only false, it is the opposite of what the > > Church believes and practices.' -Karin Pouw
> > "As you well know, my parents officially left the Church when I was 16 > > in 2000. I, having been separated from them at the age of 12 and > > thoroughly engulfed in the beliefs of the Church since birth decided > > not to go with them.
> > "Not only was I not allowed to speak to them, I was not allowed to > > answer a phone for well over a year, in case it was them calling me. > > To give exact specifics, this "law" was enforced ruthlessly by one > > Tracye Danilovoch - the local representative for the Religious > > Technology Center - who intercepted all letters from my parents (and > > my friends). She would then pass them on to Marc Rathbun (the then 2nd > > in command of the Church) and Mike Rinder - who happens to be the > > former head of YOUR office - "The Office of Special Affairs" (you can > > thank me later for not elaborating on this one). Only after they had > > seen the letters and decided it was ok for me to see them would I > > receive some of them while sitting in a board room while they watched > > me read them and asked me to comment on them.
> > "I was allowed to visit my parents from the age of 16-22, once a year > > for a maximum of 3-4 days, but that was only after they (my parents) > > threatened legal action if the Church got in the way of this and even > > then only after I underwent a "Security Check Confessional" before I > > saw them and immediately after I came back. A security check is > > interrogation (usually about if I intend on leaving the Church, or > > finding out if my parents have said anything bad about the Church, > > etc.) while being attached to an electrophsychometer which is similar > > to a lie detector. This happened every single time I saw then (which > > was never more than 3 or 4 days a year).
> > "For a more recent example of families being destroyed, My Aunt > > Jennifer Pantermeuhl has recently contacted my parents and let them > > know that she can no longer speak to them or be in contact with them > > because they speak to and live near, my other Aunt Sarah Mortland. > > Sarah is my mom's and Jennifer's sister. This is because Sarah is not > > in favor with the Church. Jennifer also contacted my brother Sterling > > as well as the rest of the family for the same reason most of whom had > > to lie to her and said they weren't talking to Sarah for fear of > > getting found out about.
> > "Another good example would be when my other brother, Justin, was in > > Florida a few years ago and was on his way to visit our Aunt Denise > > Gentile (our father's sister and David Miscavige's twin) with his > > girlfriend. Denise abruptly cancelled while they were on their way > > over because the Church would not approve - because he was an ex- > > member. Not to mention the fact that Kirsten Caetano (a member of the > > Church's Office of Special Affairs - the very same organization you > > belong to) was contacting Justin several times when he was in Florida > > working, telling him that he needed to leave the state because he is > > an ex-member and his presence at the "mecca of scientology" was > > disturbing to the church. Kristen has admitted to my face that she did > > this when I confronted her and even went so far as to admit that she > > lied to my brother after denying the incident. This is the least of > > what Kirsten Caetano has done!
> > "You cite this quote from L.Ron Hubbard about what the Church believes > > with regards to families..... yes we know what the Church claims to > > "believe" and has written in its policies! - BUT do they practice > > that? Absolutely not!
> > " I can name at least 5 friends off the top of my head who's family > > members are not allowed to speak to them without being themselves > > ousted from the Church and prevented from communicating with other > > members of their family and even their children still involved in the > > Church lest THEY too be ousted! They cant speak to their children > > because they have left the Church on their own determinism. This is a > > widespread practice and if you dare deny it I have a list of all of > > there names together-these people's families are crying every day > > because they can't speak to their children who did nothing but leave > > the Church of their own free will.
> > "If I am in fact wrong and you want to prove me as such, then allow me > > and my family to be in contact with our family members that are still > > part of the Church such as my Grandpa, Ron Miscavige, and his wife, > > Becky. Allow the same of my friends. And don't even start with the, > > "it's their choice all along story..." -nobody is going to buy that, > > there are way too many destroyed families for that to be true.
> > "I am tempted to take up many of the other accusations you > > categorically deny in your novel, but for the purpose of keeping this > > letter readable and focused on the most important part (family) I will > > resist.
> > "I will suggest however that maybe you should spend the manpower and > > time of drafting your masterpiece rebuttal - why don't you take the > > high road for once and put that time towards repairing the families > > you have destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige > > himself - hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then > > why on earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > > together!
> > "Best,
> > "Jenna Miscavige Hill" <
> Chuck, are you assuring us that this is definately from Ron > Miscavige's daughter, Jenna and that she wanted this posted about? I > ask because the potential consequences from her authoring this letter > are astounding, both good and possibly bad. I certainly don't want to > see anything happen to her and her family because of it.
> Presuming it is ok'd by her and it was written by her, here is what I > have to say to her in response:
> Jenna, this is a very courageous and serious stand you have taken. > You have not only publicly announced opposition to a 'church' action, > you have also revealed information that David Miscavige would not want > other scientologists and critics to know. I am relieved to know that > you and your family have left the church, but I am more than sorry to > see what you and your family have had to go through. Your > aunt,grandfather and step grandmother have every right to see you as > you have to see them. They just don't know or have forgotten how much > freedom they are entitled to. Love is an inate right and family share > a bond that no law or policy has the right to separate.
> Many of us former members here have been victims of or participants in > disconnection. The severing of ties to loved ones by scientologists, > as you so well stated, is a frequent and determined effort by > scientology management. > For the children, it is traumatic and overwhelming. It is to your > parents credit that they fought for you, like so many others who have > posted here have done or tried to do for theirs that were lost to to > them via disconnection policy.
> Do you think your message fell on deaf ears when you wrote that church > spokesperson Karen Pouw and the church should " take the high road > for once and put that time towards repairing the families you have > destroyed, starting with the family of David Miscavige himself - > hell, if Scientology can't keep his family together - then why on > earth should anyone believe the Church helps bring families > together!" ? I think not. Give it some time for this message of your > to really sink in for the readers. I know I cou;ln't believe it at > first. It seemed too impossible. I knew that your father Ron Miscavige > was no longer in the Sea Org but the fact that he officially left the > church is quite another thing. It's so inspiring to see that he and > your mother, despite the church's oppression, persisted and fought to > have you in their life.
> And here you are now, out of the church, trying to connect with > family. Standing up to the oppression that robbed you of a good part > of your youth. Doing it publicly, very likely inspiring so many others > who have lurked behind the scenes for fear of speaking up and not > wanting to hurt family members still in the church by making a big > stink about what rots at the core of The Church of Scientology.
On Jan 26, 10:59 pm, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" <chuckbeatt...@aol.com> wrote:
> Mary,
> Yes, Jenna knows,and Jenna is now in contact with at least one > journalist. Andrew's seen her letter and hopefully there will be a > news story Monday.
> Jenna has made herself contactable and confirmed her letter.
> Chuck <
Thank you, Chuck. I figured as much but I felt it should be confirmed. Glads to hear she's getting her story around. It will inspire so many more to speak up and put pressure on the church to cease this evil disconnection policy, which I once participated in using.
While I have your attention, I see that Lulu posted a reply stating that you'd already posted that Ron & Bitty helped Rinder get out, but I never saw or read of their involvement in his escape. If that is true and I jusrt missed the posts here, it might explain why it's so quiet about the Ronnie Miscavige family being out... to me this is amazingly wonderful news, confirming the suspicions of many!
> On Jan 25, 8:45 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Chuck, are you assuring us that this is definately from Ron > > Miscavige's daughter, Jenna and that she wanted this posted about? I > > ask because the potential consequences from her authoring this letter > > are astounding, both good and possibly bad. I certainly don't want to > > see anything happen to her and her family because of it.
> I wondered about this, too.
> It's a good question.
> But, from what Chuck has posted previously, Ronnie and Bitty Miscavige > (Jenna's parents) helped Mike Rinder get back on his feet after his > recent blow.
> So, one would have to assume they've already drawn their line in the > sand as far as COS goes. < <
Thanks, Lulu. I never saw anything about them helping Rinder get out. Chuck replied that yes, she gave consent... and is speaking to Morton and the media. It's all good... and it's going to be interesting times ahead!
> On Jan 26, 9:28 am, Lulu Belle <exess...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 25, 8:45 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Chuck, are you assuring us that this is definately from Ron > > > Miscavige's daughter, Jenna and that she wanted this posted about? I > > > ask because the potential consequences from her authoring this letter > > > are astounding, both good and possibly bad. I certainly don't want to > > > see anything happen to her and her family because of it.
> > I wondered about this, too.
> > It's a good question.
> > But, from what Chuck has posted previously, Ronnie and Bitty Miscavige > > (Jenna's parents) helped Mike Rinder get back on his feet after his > > recent blow.
> > So, one would have to assume they've already drawn their line in the > > sand as far as COS goes. < <
> Thanks, Lulu. I never saw anything about them helping Rinder get out. > Chuck replied that yes, she gave consent... and is speaking to Morton > and the media. > It's all good... and it's going to be interesting times ahead!
