>>>> "Rev. Norle Enturbulata, COD" <not-earthli...@nor-hotmail.com> wrote in >>>> message news:473c06a7$1@news2.lightlink.com... >>>>> Maybe he'll finally quit the cult and "come out" at last, judging by >>>>> that enthusiasm for the fat suit. Then he could develop some acting >>>>> ability after he stops keeping himself from being just a Scientologist >>>>> with a non-existent development curve.
>>>> Well, that's easy to say from your computer. Sitting amongst a full >>>> house of people who love him very much, >>>> I don't agree with you re a "non-existent developement >>>> curve"---but I'm not surprised. I figured my post >>>> may ruffle a few critics feathers, and that's Ok, too.
>>> I sat in a theater populated mostly by people who loved JT very much in >>> 2000. Well, more like pod people actually, manic, smiling, clapping >>> Scientologists to be precise. "Battlefield Earth" to be specific (I'd >>> bought a ticket to "Gladiator" and just gone into BE, so to not pay the >>> cult mo money).
>> Hey............keep in mind I was there for BattleField Earth >> WITH OSA_____ I was "in", and we're talking about >> a 100% different situation. We "in" thought BE was a NIGHTMARE___and yes, >> people in the audience were mostly Scios, not fans, and yes, forced >> applause, etc.
>> It was all I could do to keep from going all MST3K in the middle >>> of it, but I was by myself, and had a feeling it would not be a good >>> idea to have people following me on the sidewalk shrieking "What are >>> your crimes?"
>> Understood. Well, we, as OSA, went to his private party after...and he >> came up to me and gave me a big hug and said, "I'll never forget you and >> Vicki" (The other supervisor back when he first got Welcome Back Codder). >> We were outside, >> you had to have a badge to get in. I decided the Hell with this, I WANT >> TO GO TO THE PARTY. So I just walked in with another guy----talked to >> John, and got drinks for Yaude (Yeah, there, too) and Gavino---and handed >> them drinks and said, "I'd like to congratulate you men on your security" >> :)
>>> at me. So you'll forgive me for saying that perhaps getting all >>> happy-clappy about Travolta is a remnant from your Scientology >>> programming that hasn't been cleared out as yet.
>> Man if that isn't a bullshit evaluation from someone, >> I'm not sure what is. You're comparing apples to oranges, >> and remember---I was at the show you're talking about with BE, so I get >> that *was* nuts. This wasn't that.
>> Also, you weren't there last night, when it was real, it was with >> people ---just every day fans, ((I know most Scios, and few if any were >> there), and it is how I feel. I like John, I've known him for 30 years, >> and the fact that you have a need to try to ram some think you have of me >> and my supposed "remnant Scientology programming" ---let's just say I >> don't appreciate it.
>> It's one thing to hear the crap from the OSA floormats here, it's totally >> another to get it from a critic, again, who I don't think has even met >> me, obviously cannot hear how I feel, or allow me to have feelings unlike >> yours.
> I wouldn't call it 'crap' at all. Nonetheless you can't deny that it's a > possibility that enforced, repetitive behavior can have after-effects in > ways one could never anticipate.
You wouldn't call the flat out lies about me and others, written by OSA and posted "Crap"? What would you call it? Just curious.
No, I don't deny anything----however, I do say your assuming my liking JohnT is this description I don't believe to be true. You can.....and I can't........we both have that right. The key difference is *I* had a good time last night, and you didn't (at that show). All the rest is theory.
I could say the same about you: You immediately Associated your bad experience with ALL of JT's movies, and that *could* be labeled as you say: " behavior can have after-effects in
> ways one could never anticipate".
See how easy it is to "analyze" others? (A joke, sort of)
>> That's too bad, and one reason the media does interview me: As they've >> told me: "We can get *both* sides from you. You're not someone where >> EVERYTHING is all bad in Scientology" and I'm not. This is one of those >> things. Sorry you missed it.
> Well, you've made the point that you're a big Travolta fan, exclusive of > your activities in the Scientology cult. This is correct?
I wouldn't say I'm a "big Travolta fan"---I'd say I enjoyed his movie, and many of his I like (Pulp Fiction is a favorite) and yes, I can differentiate an artist from the cult, if that's your question. I also like JT--he's a good guy, nice, fun, and always has been--way before Scientology.
I also believe that communicating with people, any kind of person, is FAR more successful than trying to impose your ideas, no matter how "correct" on them. I learned that the hard way, talking to critics while "in"--and totally unable to hear any of them. Finally *one* day, a young man came up to me and kept asking me, in a VERY nice way, and truly curious: "But IF you're Free: Why can't you read *a* book?"
I couldn't stop thinking about that. I'd already been in a long waking up process for about 10 years----but that began the beginning of the cracking of my Scio/Truman show, towards the end.
>>> Defining the non-existent development curve: actors especially show >>> this, in that their development in everything not involved with >>> Scientology absolutely halts after a time. If JT didn't have a >>> publicity group and an agent, would anyone other than Tarantino have >>> bothered?
>> Well, that's your take. I don't think Scientology had much to do with his >> career at all, and that's what I said from the beginning. This is about >> John---and I *feel* he arrived with the skills he still has..... as I saw >> them! He's done well, whether you want to acknowledge it, or not.
> He was 'in' from the beginning of his non-dancing career, and was trying > to get everyone on the "Welcome Back Kotter" show to join the cult as > well.
Did you work with him? Well, that IS part of a cult: Recruitment---so sure, he was. When you first find Scientology, esp. back then, it was (we all thought) The best. Hell, it took me 30 y e a r s ....getting up to OT 7 (and on that for 7 years) AND being part of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet gang to FINALLY SEE what goes down in Scientology, for real. It's NOT pretty---but he'll never see it, or I never say never, so it's doubtful he will. I hope---I really hope--he does.
> The cult presents him as 'doing well', his PR machine does too. But of > course with Hollywood folk, what you see is not what you get. Let's hope > he wakes up one of these days and develops a spine enough to call a cult a > cult publicly. Or just wakes up and blows the cult like you did. Either > way I can easily predict his acting will improve if he's capable, once he > leaves the mind-control process he presently shills for as The Answer.
Well, I think we can all predict ALL of the people "In" the cult of Scientology will do much better, once they finally get out of that damned solid, yuckie, "you_must_do_what_***WE*** say" totalitarian system.
>>>> I also hope one day he blasts out of Scientology, but I don't see it >>>> anytime soon. It's too easy being "in"...and he sees none of what we >>>> who've left have been exposed to.
>> Yeah.......I hope he blasts out, too. But I won't hold my breath. >> I think Scientology gives the Celebs a super insulated fantastic base: >> why leave? Sure, they *should*---but again, >> THEY DON'T SEE OR HEAR what we do. That was set up, >> long ago.
>> Doesn't mean I cannot enjoy someone I like. Sometimes (I think---and I >> grew up with this from my Mom) one has to take time, still, to smell the >> roses..... and last night was one of mine I thought I'd share with you >> all. >> Scientoligsts or not, I enjoyed seeing the movie, and listening to his >> fans, and he speaking.
> Go for it. But give me Divine any day over Travolta. Then again if JT > would repeat some of the more interesting scenes in "Pink Flamingos" I'd > pay more attention.
:) LOL>>>>>>>>>Well, there ya go. I never saw "Pink Flamingos" But it sounds like a good one, eh?
> Rev. Norle Enturbulata > "Church" of Cartoonism > * > * " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only > way you can control anybody is to lie to them." > * -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88" > * > * "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her > crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes > exist...." > * L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967 > * > * "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All > mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!" > - L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
> In article <MM6%i.1275$wL7....@newsfe07.lga>, Magoo > <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> "Skipper" <skipspaml...@charter.not> wrote in message >> news:151120071746527346%skipspamless@charter.not... >> > In article >> > <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >> > magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi Tory,
>> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
>> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me that >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved with >> >> it.
>> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous post >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation w/ >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I called you >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. Sorry for >> >> the confusion.
>> >> Keep up the good work!
>> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
>> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into $cientology and >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, because >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
>> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
>> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing scores, >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. (Donna >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a BIG >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, therefore >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. And >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying attention.
>> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do so. My >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT deal of >> > harm and ruins lives.
>> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
>> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
>> Best,
>> Tory/Magoo~~
> Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity Centre.
A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was great in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> The only person who knows more about what went on with the celebrities > and Yvonne is Spanky Taylor, and I know things she doesn't know. I > don't know if you were around CC with its separate course room for > "celebs" and "regular public."
Yup-------and I saw their new one, in 2000, with the new, private parking lot for the celebs, their own entrance to CC, so no one has to even see them, AND their private courseroom. Nice set up for mind control, eh?
People like Travolta were CONSTANTLY
> kept from the goings-on of the evils of $cientology.
This I know, completely.
If you have such
> fondness for him, take an opportunity like that to tell him - Hey John, > did you know the real story about the death of Lisa McPherson? Did > anyone ever tell you about suicides like Philip Gale, Megan Shields > daughter? Did you ever bother to try to check any of it out, or did you > just let yourself get "dead-agented"?
Well, in the two seconds I had to say, "hi"---I knew that wasn't going to happen, but it's my hope some of his outside "Friends" get him the info. You and I both know the other side of JT, and that's a VERY good thang, for many reasons. :)
There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold for staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
HAHAHAHAHA! OSA:::: You created your enemies, and they're only growing daily, thanks to your very actions. Keep up the **great**work! :)
> >> "Skipper" <skipspaml...@charter.not> wrote in message > >> news:151120071746527346%skipspamless@charter.not... > >> > In article > >> > <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, > >> > magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi Tory,
> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people > >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them > >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive > >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my > >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark > >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me that > >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the > >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved with > >> >> it.
> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous post > >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation w/ > >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I called you > >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. Sorry for > >> >> the confusion.
> >> >> Keep up the good work!
> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into $cientology and > >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, because > >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY > >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing scores, > >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art > >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. (Donna > >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a BIG > >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, therefore > >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. And > >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying attention.
> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do so. My > >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a > >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT deal of > >> > harm and ruins lives.
> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. > >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
> >> Best,
> >> Tory/Magoo~~
> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity Centre.
> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was great > in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly at me and go about their business like zombies.
[snip]
> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold for > staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is always oblivion.
>> >> "Skipper" <skipspaml...@charter.not> wrote in message >> >> news:151120071746527346%skipspamless@charter.not... >> >> > In article >> >> > <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Hi Tory,
>> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
>> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me >> >> >> that >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved with >> >> >> it.
>> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous >> >> >> post >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation w/ >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I called >> >> >> you >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. Sorry >> >> >> for >> >> >> the confusion.
>> >> >> Keep up the good work!
>> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
>> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into $cientology >> >> > and >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, >> >> > because >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
>> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
>> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing >> >> > scores, >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. >> >> > (Donna >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a BIG >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, therefore >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. >> >> > And >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying attention.
>> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do so. >> >> > My >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT deal >> >> > of >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
>> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
>> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
>> >> Best,
>> >> Tory/Magoo~~
>> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity Centre.
>> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was >> great >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly > at me and go about their business like zombies.
> [snip]
>> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold >> for >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
> One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
> They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is > always oblivion.
Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" in Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I just *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of some super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) and when that began, the shit began to FLY.
The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously dwindling, I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and hey, most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would they know?) Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that is irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, learning about C of S, and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
>> >> "Skipper" <skipspaml...@charter.not> wrote in message >> >> news:151120071746527346%skipspamless@charter.not... >> >> > In article >> >> > <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >> >> > magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Hi Tory,
>> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
>> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me >> >> >> that >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved with >> >> >> it.
>> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous >> >> >> post >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation w/ >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I called >> >> >> you >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. Sorry >> >> >> for >> >> >> the confusion.
>> >> >> Keep up the good work!
>> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
>> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into $cientology >> >> > and >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, >> >> > because >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
>> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
>> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing >> >> > scores, >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. >> >> > (Donna >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a BIG >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, therefore >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. >> >> > And >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying attention.
>> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do so. >> >> > My >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT deal >> >> > of >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
>> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
>> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
>> >> Best,
>> >> Tory/Magoo~~
>> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity Centre.
>> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was >> great >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly > at me and go about their business like zombies.
> [snip]
>> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold >> for >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
> One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
> They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is > always oblivion.
The problem, in my opinion, is the fear. Fear of loss of Bridge, for those who still see validity to the "Tech", fear of harassment that they've been educated will occur (yes, it's well known, when you're a scientologist that scientologists essentially use guerilla warfare tactics on bigger, slower and more morality-bound opponents, and when it dawns upon you that you are about to become one of those opponents, it can require a moment or two of "clarity", prior to making that decision, due to the inculcation of fear of what the Church does to their enemies. And they do have enemies. They made them, that's how they know. And they declared them as such, and announced to them beforehand that they would use all measures, legal and "extra-legal" to destroy them utterly.
This doesn't breed goodwill in apostates. There is no leaving scientology without a fight, a fight in which most of us lost something dear to us, or will lose something dear to us, if we're sitting on the fence. There's no getting around it, sometimes, and it's specifically incorporated into the culture of the Church to make people aware of this. The threat is implied in the Ethics Conditions. When you are declared an enemy by the Church, a scientologist who's considered the meaning of stamping out of existence, per KSW, the threat is definitely there.
That said? People, I've been completely out, for ten years. Earlier than that I left, but they still had a big part of me, because I was continuously worried about loss of my family, and because I was unaware of the abuses and deception that were in store for me, and that had been heaped upon others targeted as marks or enemies of this mad charlatan's nightmare. I've experienced minor and unprovable abuse from the Church, in the form of phone calls where there was no one talking on the other end for years at bizarre hours, odd accusations at work-places not born out of any activity or words from me, and of course, the actual loss of my wife and children. It's hard for me to say if it was worth leaving. I have my own sense of self intact, and have been able to build a life for myself that I enjoy and that I think is beneficial to the communities I'm part of. I'm just being honest, although I know this may reinforce a fear a fence-sitter may have. My experience was, other than imprisonment or death, I think, a worst-case scenario, largely because I was young, and naive, and because I didn't really understand my legal rights, grok how far away from me my wife had gone while I thought she was right there. Some have walked away intact. I was afraid to talk about my doubts and considerations with my spouse, but it may well have been that she may have shared them. Had I disclosed them to her, we might have nipped it in the bud, right there, rather than quietly believing that the other believed, and so we'd better not risk alienating each other, when other stresses were already putting us at odds.
For the fence-sitters, I'd say that you should walk away, no matter what the cost. Understand that what you are dealing with is an organization which will take everything from you, sooner or later, and sooner is their agenda. They will take everything from the ones you love, too. Not just material things. But they will slowly convince you, more and more, that you cannot be free without them, and your will shall be focused by them to causes that if you truely observed, you wouldn't support. This will happen to the ones you love, too, unless you get out, and take them with you. It's only a matter of time. The longer you are in, the longer you let your fears of loss govern you, the more you will eventually stand to lose, as they cause you to further and further compromise your personal integrity in support of their causes.
I feel terrible that I wasn't able to protect my children from this cult, and will never stop being devastated about losing the love of my life to this group, and that I introduced her to it is almost too much to bear. Do what you can. Communication is your best bet, but nothing is guaranteed, except this: the longer you expose yourself and your connections to the Church of Scientology, the more likely you will lose your most cherished assets to them. If you walk away, there is a chance your spouse or children or others in your family will walk with you.
At first, this is what my ex-wife did. But then I fell in to the trap of doing my A to E steps while she agreed to fulfill her staff contract, and we were manipulated into parting for this, to increase the speed of both getting done faster. In the end, she was secluded from all communication from me, and my petitions were either denied, or my records "lost". These people do not play fair, and I'm not going to minimize the pain that this caused me. I won't paint a rosy scenario that you'll walk away and all will be fine and dandy. Some have had that experience, and I marvel at that, and others have suffered far worse than I have.
I hope to one day be reunited with my children. I think it will happen. I trust my genes, and I know they are smart
...
> >> >> "Skipper" <skipspaml...@charter.not> wrote in message > >> >> news:151120071746527346%skipspamless@charter.not... > >> >> > In article > >> >> > <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> > magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> Hi Tory,
> >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people > >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them > >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
> >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive > >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my > >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark > >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the > >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved with > >> >> >> it.
> >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous > >> >> >> post > >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation w/ > >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I called > >> >> >> you > >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. Sorry > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> the confusion.
> >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
> >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
> >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into $cientology > >> >> > and > >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, > >> >> > because > >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
> >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY > >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
> >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing > >> >> > scores, > >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art > >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. > >> >> > (Donna > >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a BIG > >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, therefore > >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. > >> >> > And > >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying attention.
> >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do so. > >> >> > My > >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a > >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT deal > >> >> > of > >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
> >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
> >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. > >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
> >> >> Best,
> >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
> >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity Centre.
> >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was > >> great > >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get > > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and > > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later > > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only > > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old > > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to > > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly > > at me and go about their business like zombies.
> > [snip]
> >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold > >> for > >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
> > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, > > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not > > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, > > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
> > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each > > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and > > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is > > always oblivion.
> Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" in > Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard > enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I just > *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of some > super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) and > when that began, the shit began to FLY.
> The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred > 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously dwindling, > I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and hey, > most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would they > know?) > Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that is > irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, > learning about C of S, > and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
> Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- > that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them > "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
> Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
> Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, > If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL > and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
> We'll see.............
> Happy Holidays, Skipper---
> Tory/Magoo~~
Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more interesting, frankly.
I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house of cards.
Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has more class and a general disposition to get along with people that Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
Travolta doesn't play male romantic leads any more, anyway. He should leave $cientology, get some non-$cientology help for his kid who needs it, and get the giant career boost that leaving $cientology would give him, to say nothing of the life boost he'd get. He has LOTS of non-$cientology friends.
Cruise's career is almost over, thanks to $cientology.
$cientology is almost over, thanks to Cruise.
If Travolta left, the celebrity contingent would collapse within a year.
>> >> >> "Skipper" <skipspaml...@charter.not> wrote in message >> >> >> news:151120071746527346%skipspamless@charter.not... >> >> >> > In article >> >> >> > <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >> >> >> > magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Hi Tory,
>> >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people >> >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >> >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
>> >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive >> >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink >> >> >> >> my >> >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved >> >> >> >> with >> >> >> >> it.
>> >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a >> >> >> >> previous >> >> >> >> post >> >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation >> >> >> >> w/ >> >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I >> >> >> >> called >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. >> >> >> >> Sorry >> >> >> >> for >> >> >> >> the confusion.
>> >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
>> >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
>> >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into >> >> >> > $cientology >> >> >> > and >> >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, >> >> >> > because >> >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
>> >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >> >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
>> >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing >> >> >> > scores, >> >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer >> >> >> > Art >> >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. >> >> >> > (Donna >> >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a >> >> >> > BIG >> >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, >> >> >> > therefore >> >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. >> >> >> > And >> >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying >> >> >> > attention.
>> >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do >> >> >> > so. >> >> >> > My >> >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >> >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT >> >> >> > deal >> >> >> > of >> >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
>> >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
>> >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >> >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
>> >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity >> >> > Centre.
>> >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was >> >> great >> >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
>> > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get >> > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and >> > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later >> > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only >> > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old >> > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to >> > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly >> > at me and go about their business like zombies.
>> > [snip]
>> >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold >> >> for >> >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
>> > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, >> > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not >> > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, >> > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
>> > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each >> > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and >> > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is >> > always oblivion.
>> Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" in >> Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard >> enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I just >> *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of >> some >> super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) >> and >> when that began, the shit began to FLY.
>> The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred >> 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously >> dwindling, >> I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and >> hey, >> most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would they >> know?) >> Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that is >> irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, >> learning about C of S, >> and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
>> Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- >> that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them >> "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
>> Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
>> Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, >> If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL >> and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
>> We'll see.............
>> Happy Holidays, Skipper---
>> Tory/Magoo~~
> Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't > think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more > interesting, frankly.
> I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house > of cards.
> Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. > That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough > people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
> Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has > more class and a general disposition to get along with people that > Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
> Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the > 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. > There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
> If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal > blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the > press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, > the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some > people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" > and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care > less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
> Travolta doesn't play male romantic leads any more, anyway. He should > leave $cientology, get some non-$cientology help for his kid who needs > it, and get the giant career boost that leaving $cientology would give > him, to say nothing of the life boost he'd get. He has LOTS of > non-$cientology friends.
> Cruise's career is almost over, thanks to $cientology.
> $cientology is almost over, thanks to Cruise.
> If Travolta left, the celebrity contingent would collapse within a year.
I'm with you, 100%! Well said, on both counts.
I always say on TV:," Thank you to Tom Cruise for SHOWING the world what an "OT" really looks like".
Scientology sent out their PI's after that, to "See if Tory is libeling Tom Cruise". HUH? Thanking him for showing what an "OT" looks like is libel? Now ~that's~ an interesting concept, eh?
Anyway, we'll see what happens. Sadly, I think JT is still amongst those that love their "Friends" too much to leave. It took me hearing from Andreas, "What kind of friends could those be, if they're going to LEAVE you because YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND?" (My caps, not his)....for me to fully realize: They're only my friends as long as I jump through THEIR HOOPS, THEIR WAY.
The minute I didn't...........they proved to me that was true: CYA~ They declared me an SP, without even a Comm Ev or even telling me I was up for a declare-----I never got to even tell *my* side of it to them, and you've seen the rest.
I figured, Hey! Scientology thinks they own justice....well, let's just see. And bingo~~~ my internet/out of Scientology life began, and I've met more wonderful, helpful people than I could ever dream of while "in".
> > >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people > > >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them > > >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
> > >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive > > >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my > > >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark > > >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me > > >> >> >> that > > >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the > > >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved with > > >> >> >> it.
> > >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous > > >> >> >> post > > >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation w/ > > >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I called > > >> >> >> you > > >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. Sorry > > >> >> >> for > > >> >> >> the confusion.
> > >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
> > >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
> > >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into $cientology > > >> >> > and > > >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, > > >> >> > because > > >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
> > >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY > > >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
> > >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing > > >> >> > scores, > > >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art > > >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. > > >> >> > (Donna > > >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a BIG > > >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, therefore > > >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. > > >> >> > And > > >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying attention.
> > >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do so. > > >> >> > My > > >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a > > >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT deal > > >> >> > of > > >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
> > >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
> > >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. > > >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
> > >> >> Best,
> > >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
> > >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity Centre.
> > >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was > > >> great > > >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> > > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get > > > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and > > > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later > > > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only > > > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old > > > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to > > > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly > > > at me and go about their business like zombies.
> > > [snip]
> > >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold > > >> for > > >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
> > > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, > > > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not > > > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, > > > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
> > > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each > > > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and > > > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is > > > always oblivion.
> > Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" in > > Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard > > enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I just > > *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of some > > super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) and > > when that began, the shit began to FLY.
> > The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred > > 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously dwindling, > > I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and hey, > > most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would they > > know?) > > Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that is > > irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, > > learning about C of S, > > and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
> > Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- > > that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them > > "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
> > Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
> > Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, > > If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL > > and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
> > We'll see.............
> > Happy Holidays, Skipper---
> > Tory/Magoo~~
> Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't > think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more > interesting, frankly.
> I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house > of cards.
> Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. > That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough > people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
> Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has > more class and a general disposition to get along with people that > Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
> Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the > 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. > There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
> If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal > blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the > press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, > the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some > people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" > and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care > less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
> Travolta doesn't play male romantic leads any more, anyway. He should > leave $cientology, get some non-$cientology help for his kid who needs > it, and get the giant career boost that leaving $cientology would give > him, to say nothing of the life boost he'd get. He has LOTS of > non-$cientology friends.
> Cruise's career is almost over, thanks to $cientology.
> $cientology is almost over, thanks to Cruise.
> If Travolta left, the celebrity contingent would collapse within a year.
> > > >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people > > > >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them > > > >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
> > > >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive > > > >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my > > > >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark > > > >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me > > > >> >> >> that > > > >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the > > > >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved > with > > > >> >> >> it.
> > > >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous > > > >> >> >> post > > > >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation > w/ > > > >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I > called > > > >> >> >> you > > > >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. > Sorry > > > >> >> >> for > > > >> >> >> the confusion.
> > > >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
> > > >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
> > > >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into > > > >> >> > $cientology > > > >> >> > and > > > >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, > > > >> >> > because > > > >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
> > > >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY > > > >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
> > > >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing > > > >> >> > scores, > > > >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art > > > >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. > > > >> >> > (Donna > > > >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a > > > >> >> > BIG > > > >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, > > > >> >> > therefore > > > >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. > > > >> >> > And > > > >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying > > > >> >> > attention.
> > > >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do > > > >> >> > so. > > > >> >> > My > > > >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a > > > >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT > > > >> >> > deal > > > >> >> > of > > > >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
> > > >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
> > > >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. > > > >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
> > > >> >> Best,
> > > >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
> > > >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity > > > >> > Centre.
> > > >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was > > > >> great > > > >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> > > > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get > > > > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and > > > > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later > > > > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only > > > > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old > > > > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to > > > > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly > > > > at me and go about their business like zombies.
> > > > [snip]
> > > >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold > > > >> for > > > >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
> > > > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, > > > > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not > > > > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, > > > > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
> > > > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each > > > > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and > > > > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is > > > > always oblivion.
> > > Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" in > > > Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard > > > enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I just > > > *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of some > > > super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) and > > > when that began, the shit began to FLY.
> > > The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred > > > 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously > > > dwindling, > > > I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and > > > hey, > > > most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would they > > > know?) > > > Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that is > > > irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, > > > learning about C of S, > > > and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
> > > Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- > > > that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them > > > "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
> > > Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
> > > Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, > > > If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL > > > and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
> > > We'll see.............
> > > Happy Holidays, Skipper---
> > > Tory/Magoo~~
> > Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't > > think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more > > interesting, frankly.
> > I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house > > of cards.
> > Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. > > That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough > > people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
> > Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has > > more class and a general disposition to get along with people that > > Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
> > Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the > > 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. > > There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
> Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
None that I know of, anyway. I really don't think they can screw with him much.
> > If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal > > blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the > > press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, > > the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some > > people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" > > and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care > > less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
> > Travolta doesn't play male romantic leads any more, anyway. He should > > leave $cientology, get some non-$cientology help for his kid who needs > > it, and get the giant career boost that leaving $cientology would give > > him, to say nothing of the life boost he'd get. He has LOTS of > > non-$cientology friends.
> > Cruise's career is almost over, thanks to $cientology.
> > $cientology is almost over, thanks to Cruise.
> > If Travolta left, the celebrity contingent would collapse within a year.
>>>>>>>>> <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>> magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Tory, >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> There are a few things and certainly many people >>>>>>>>>>> in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >>>>>>>>>>> for sure is John Travolta. >>>>>>>>>> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive >>>>>>>>>> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink my >>>>>>>>>> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & Mark >>>>>>>>>> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on the >>>>>>>>>> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved >> with >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a previous >>>>>>>>>> post >>>>>>>>>> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation >> w/ >>>>>>>>>> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I >> called >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. >> Sorry >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> the confusion. >>>>>>>>>> Keep up the good work! >>>>>>>>> I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point. >>>>>>>>> "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into >>>>>>>>> $cientology >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen). >>>>>>>>> Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >>>>>>>>> stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology. >>>>>>>>> Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing >>>>>>>>> scores, >>>>>>>>> which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer Art >>>>>>>>> Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. >>>>>>>>> (Donna >>>>>>>>> married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a >>>>>>>>> BIG >>>>>>>>> $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, >>>>>>>>> therefore >>>>>>>>> discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. >>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>> if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying >>>>>>>>> attention. >>>>>>>>> I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do >>>>>>>>> so. >>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>> thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >>>>>>>>> disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT >>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> harm and ruins lives. >>>>>>>> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper. >>>>>>>> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >>>>>>>> Perhaps next year I will...:) >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Tory/Magoo~~ >>>>>>> Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity >>>>>>> Centre. >>>>>> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She was >>>>>> great >>>>>> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing. >>>>> I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't get >>>>> out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends and >>>>> couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later >>>>> found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only >>>>> nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old >>>>> $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to >>>>> show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile sadly >>>>> at me and go about their business like zombies. >>>>> [snip] >>>>>> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL Hold >>>>>> for >>>>>> staff, public, AND celebrities, really. >>>>> One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, >>>>> most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not >>>>> very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I know, >>>>> Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented. >>>>> They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each >>>>> other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and >>>>> goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is >>>>> always oblivion. >>>> Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" in >>>> Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard >>>> enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I just >>>> *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of some >>>> super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) and >>>> when that began, the shit began to FLY. >>>> The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred >>>> 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously >>>> dwindling, >>>> I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and >>>> hey, >>>> most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would they >>>> know?) >>>> Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that is >>>> irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, >>>> learning about C of S, >>>> and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole. >>>> Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- >>>> that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them >>>> "blows" ---and many are these days! :) >>>> Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT? >>>> Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, >>>> If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL >>>> and many who leave aren't willing to do that. >>>> We'll see............. >>>> Happy Holidays, Skipper--- >>>> Tory/Magoo~~ >>> Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't >>> think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more >>> interesting, frankly.
>>> I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house >>> of cards.
>>> Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. >>> That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough >>> people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
>>> Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has >>> more class and a general disposition to get along with people that >>> Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
>>> Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the >>> 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. >>> There were NO repercussions to him at the time. >> Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
> None that I know of, anyway. I really don't think they can screw with > him much.
>>> If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal >>> blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the >>> press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, >>> the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some >>> people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" >>> and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care >>> less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
>>> Travolta doesn't play male romantic leads any more, anyway. He should >>> leave $cientology, get some non-$cientology help for his kid who needs >>> it, and get the giant career boost that leaving $cientology would give >>> him, to say nothing of the life boost he'd get. He has LOTS of >>> non-$cientology friends.
>>> Cruise's career is almost over, thanks to $cientology.
>>> $cientology is almost over, thanks to Cruise.
>>> If Travolta left, the celebrity contingent would collapse within a year.
A theory of mine he's scared of the blackmail aspect.
Or possibly it's because they treat celebrities so lavishly that they never see the dark side.
But note the word "theory". Meaning it's only plausible, any Scn lurkers...
> > Or possibly it's because they treat celebrities so lavishly that they > > never see the dark side.
> > But note the word "theory". Meaning it's only plausible, any Scn lurkers...
> > Everyone else: Thoughts?
> Yes, I believe some are treated lavishly. Thus Trovolta probably > hasn't seen or heard of the dark side. Thus he can't help being the > way he is in relation to Scientology.
> CofS Churchies are also insulated to a degree from the dark side, I > was, big time.
> Thank the two guys from the sixties you came up with Apple and whoever > came up with the Intenet to bring some light into the dark.
>> > > >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>> > > >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people >> > > >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >> > > >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
>> > > >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally >> > > >> >> >> positive >> > > >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me >> > > >> >> >> rethink my >> > > >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & >> > > >> >> >> Mark >> > > >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing >> > > >> >> >> me >> > > >> >> >> that >> > > >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and >> > > >> >> >> on the >> > > >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are >> > > >> >> >> involved >> with >> > > >> >> >> it.
>> > > >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a >> > > >> >> >> previous >> > > >> >> >> post >> > > >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current >> > > >> >> >> conversation >> w/ >> > > >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I >> called >> > > >> >> >> you >> > > >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. >> Sorry >> > > >> >> >> for >> > > >> >> >> the confusion.
>> > > >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
>> > > >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
>> > > >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into >> > > >> >> > $cientology >> > > >> >> > and >> > > >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it >> > > >> >> > hurts, >> > > >> >> > because >> > > >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
>> > > >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >> > > >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
>> > > >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into >> > > >> >> > doing >> > > >> >> > scores, >> > > >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of >> > > >> >> > producer Art >> > > >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via >> > > >> >> > Art. >> > > >> >> > (Donna >> > > >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's >> > > >> >> > a >> > > >> >> > BIG >> > > >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, >> > > >> >> > therefore >> > > >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and >> > > >> >> > persuasions. >> > > >> >> > And >> > > >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying >> > > >> >> > attention.
>> > > >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to >> > > >> >> > do >> > > >> >> > so. >> > > >> >> > My >> > > >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >> > > >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a >> > > >> >> > GREAT >> > > >> >> > deal >> > > >> >> > of >> > > >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
>> > > >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
>> > > >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >> > > >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
>> > > >> >> Best,
>> > > >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
>> > > >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity >> > > >> > Centre.
>> > > >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She >> > > >> was >> > > >> great >> > > >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
>> > > > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't >> > > > get >> > > > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends >> > > > and >> > > > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later >> > > > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The >> > > > only >> > > > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old >> > > > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying >> > > > to >> > > > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile >> > > > sadly >> > > > at me and go about their business like zombies.
>> > > > [snip]
>> > > >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL >> > > >> Hold >> > > >> for >> > > >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
>> > > > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of >> > > > all, >> > > > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not >> > > > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I >> > > > know, >> > > > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
>> > > > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at >> > > > each >> > > > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods >> > > > and >> > > > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok >> > > > is >> > > > always oblivion.
>> > > Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" >> > > in >> > > Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's >> > > hard >> > > enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I >> > > just >> > > *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of >> > > some >> > > super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is >> > > history) and >> > > when that began, the shit began to FLY.
>> > > The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred >> > > 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously >> > > dwindling, >> > > I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally >> > > false--and >> > > hey, >> > > most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would >> > > they >> > > know?) >> > > Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that >> > > is >> > > irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, >> > > learning about C of S, >> > > and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
>> > > Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- >> > > that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them >> > > "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
>> > > Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
>> > > Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, >> > > If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL >> > > and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
>> > > We'll see.............
>> > > Happy Holidays, Skipper---
>> > > Tory/Magoo~~
>> > Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't >> > think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more >> > interesting, frankly.
>> > I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house >> > of cards.
>> > Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. >> > That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough >> > people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
>> > Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has >> > more class and a general disposition to get along with people that >> > Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
>> > Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the >> > 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. >> > There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
>> Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
> None that I know of, anyway. I really don't think they can screw with > him much.
They *may* Sec Check him, but if they do, it's with a light touch, as they are with all the celebs. Certainly, he gets VERY special treatment, and that we both know began when Celebrity Center began.
I'm sure they pitch in the "you need to be resposible, John" and the "You could change the world" lines, too. Whatever bites---they'll use. If they need to drive him around in a yellow corvette, they will. It's what John Travolta *needs*, he gets.
>> > If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal >> > blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the >> > press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, >> > the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some >> > people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" >> > and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care >> > less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
>>>>>>>>>> <655ef8d0-4c4f-48eb-a537-716b9852f...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>>> magicus <fpri...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tory, >>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> There are a few things and certainly many people >>>>>>>>>>>> in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >>>>>>>>>>>> for sure is John Travolta. >>>>>>>>>>> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally positive >>>>>>>>>>> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me rethink >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea & >>>>>>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>>>>>> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for showing me >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and on >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are involved >>> with >>>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>>> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a >>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>> post >>>>>>>>>>> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current conversation >>> w/ >>>>>>>>>>> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I >>> called >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. >>> Sorry >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> the confusion. >>>>>>>>>>> Keep up the good work! >>>>>>>>>> I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point. >>>>>>>>>> "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into >>>>>>>>>> $cientology >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it hurts, >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen). >>>>>>>>>> Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >>>>>>>>>> stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology. >>>>>>>>>> Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into doing >>>>>>>>>> scores, >>>>>>>>>> which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of producer >>>>>>>>>> Art >>>>>>>>>> Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via Art. >>>>>>>>>> (Donna >>>>>>>>>> married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - there's a >>>>>>>>>> BIG >>>>>>>>>> $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, >>>>>>>>>> therefore >>>>>>>>>> discriminating against people of other religions and persuasions. >>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>> if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying >>>>>>>>>> attention. >>>>>>>>>> I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right to do >>>>>>>>>> so. >>>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>>> thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >>>>>>>>>> disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a GREAT >>>>>>>>>> deal >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> harm and ruins lives. >>>>>>>>> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper. >>>>>>>>> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >>>>>>>>> Perhaps next year I will...:) >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Tory/Magoo~~ >>>>>>>> Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity >>>>>>>> Centre. >>>>>>> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? She >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> great >>>>>>> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing. >>>>>> I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and couldn't >>>>>> get >>>>>> out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends >>>>>> and >>>>>> couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and later >>>>>> found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The only >>>>>> nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old >>>>>> $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying to >>>>>> show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile >>>>>> sadly >>>>>> at me and go about their business like zombies. >>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL >>>>>>> Hold >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> staff, public, AND celebrities, really. >>>>>> One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of all, >>>>>> most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're not >>>>>> very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I >>>>>> know, >>>>>> Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented. >>>>>> They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at each >>>>>> other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods and >>>>>> goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok is >>>>>> always oblivion. >>>>> Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" >>>>> in >>>>> Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's hard >>>>> enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I >>>>> just >>>>> *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part of >>>>> some >>>>> super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is history) >>>>> and >>>>> when that began, the shit began to FLY. >>>>> The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred >>>>> 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously >>>>> dwindling, >>>>> I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally false--and >>>>> hey, >>>>> most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would >>>>> they >>>>> know?) >>>>> Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and that >>>>> is >>>>> irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, >>>>> learning about C of S, >>>>> and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole. >>>>> Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- >>>>> that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them >>>>> "blows" ---and many are these days! :) >>>>> Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT? >>>>> Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, >>>>> If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL >>>>> and many who leave aren't willing to do that. >>>>> We'll see............. >>>>> Happy Holidays, Skipper--- >>>>> Tory/Magoo~~ >>>> Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't >>>> think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more >>>> interesting, frankly.
>>>> I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house >>>> of cards.
>>>> Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. >>>> That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough >>>> people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
>>>> Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has >>>> more class and a general disposition to get along with people that >>>> Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
>>>> Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in the >>>> 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. >>>> There were NO repercussions to him at the time. >>> Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
>> None that I know of, anyway. I really don't think they can screw with >> him much.
>>>> If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal >>>> blackmail the cult might cull from his PC folders and leak to the >>>> press, the public wouldn't care. As long as he wasn't a child molester, >>>> the public wouldn't care. The public's very forgiving of things some >>>> people think would ruin careers. Example: Ellen Degeneres "came out" >>>> and it was such a big deal. Now the people that like Ellen could care >>>> less, and it hasn't hurt her career.
>>>> Travolta doesn't play male romantic leads any more, anyway. He should >>>> leave $cientology, get some non-$cientology help for his kid who needs >>>> it, and get the giant career boost that leaving $cientology would give >>>> him, to say nothing of the life boost he'd get. He has LOTS of >>>> non-$cientology friends.
>>>> Cruise's career is almost over, thanks to $cientology.
>>>> $cientology is almost over, thanks to Cruise.
>>>> If Travolta left, the celebrity contingent would collapse within a >>>> year.
> A theory of mine he's scared of the blackmail aspect.
Naw............highly doubtful, as he's already "come out" for most of the community he hangs with. He's not a fearful guy.
> Or possibly it's because they treat celebrities so lavishly that they > never see the dark side.
Yup......you got *that* one right.
> But note the word "theory". Meaning it's only plausible, any Scn > lurkers...
> Everyone else: Thoughts?
The red carpet treatment, combined with TOTAL Insulation from 'the real world' (re Scientology)--- and also any harmful things Scientology does are either kept from them, or immediatly "Handled". I lived through a number of those, and I have to say, they *seemed* (At the time)
...
>> Or possibly it's because they treat celebrities so lavishly that they >> never see the dark side.
>> But note the word "theory". Meaning it's only plausible, any Scn >> lurkers...
>> Everyone else: Thoughts?
> Yes, I believe some are treated lavishly. Thus Trovolta probably > hasn't seen or heard of the dark side. Thus he can't help being the > way he is in relation to Scientology.
> CofS Churchies are also insulated to a degree from the dark side, I > was, big time.
> Thank the two guys from the sixties you came up with Apple and whoever > came up with the Intenet to bring some light into the dark.
> In article > <182e73ef-1277-4dc2-a6e2-ccabdd7d8...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > Curt <crt...@cox.net> wrote:
>> > Or possibly it's because they treat celebrities so lavishly that they >> > never see the dark side.
>> > But note the word "theory". Meaning it's only plausible, any Scn >> > lurkers...
>> > Everyone else: Thoughts?
>> Yes, I believe some are treated lavishly. Thus Trovolta probably >> hasn't seen or heard of the dark side. Thus he can't help being the >> way he is in relation to Scientology.
>> CofS Churchies are also insulated to a degree from the dark side, I >> was, big time.
>> Thank the two guys from the sixties you came up with Apple and whoever >> came up with the Intenet to bring some light into the dark.
>> Or possibly it's because they treat celebrities so lavishly that they >> never see the dark side.
>> But note the word "theory". Meaning it's only plausible, any Scn >> lurkers...
>> Everyone else: Thoughts?
> Yes, I believe some are treated lavishly. Thus Trovolta probably > hasn't seen or heard of the dark side. Thus he can't help being the > way he is in relation to Scientology.
> CofS Churchies are also insulated to a degree from the dark side, I > was, big time.
> Thank the two guys from the sixties you came up with Apple and whoever > came up with the Intenet to bring some light into the dark.
Well, you can thank the combination of the US military and the university system for the Internet. If you've been an Apple user from the beginning of your computified life I suppose you would think that Jobs and Wozniak had a part in that, too, however mistakenly.
Rev. Norle Enturbulata "Church" of Cartoonism * * " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them." * -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88" * * "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes exist...." * L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967 * * "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!" - L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
>>> > > >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> > > >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people >>> > > >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them >>> > > >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
>>> > > >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally >>> > > >> >> >> positive >>> > > >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me >>> > > >> >> >> rethink my >>> > > >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea >>> > > >> >> >> & Mark >>> > > >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for >>> > > >> >> >> showing me >>> > > >> >> >> that >>> > > >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and >>> > > >> >> >> on the >>> > > >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are >>> > > >> >> >> involved >>> with >>> > > >> >> >> it.
>>> > > >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a >>> > > >> >> >> previous >>> > > >> >> >> post >>> > > >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current >>> > > >> >> >> conversation >>> w/ >>> > > >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I >>> called >>> > > >> >> >> you >>> > > >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. >>> Sorry >>> > > >> >> >> for >>> > > >> >> >> the confusion.
>>> > > >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
>>> > > >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
>>> > > >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into >>> > > >> >> > $cientology >>> > > >> >> > and >>> > > >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it >>> > > >> >> > hurts, >>> > > >> >> > because >>> > > >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
>>> > > >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY >>> > > >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
>>> > > >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into >>> > > >> >> > doing >>> > > >> >> > scores, >>> > > >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of >>> > > >> >> > producer Art >>> > > >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via >>> > > >> >> > Art. >>> > > >> >> > (Donna >>> > > >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - >>> > > >> >> > there's a >>> > > >> >> > BIG >>> > > >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, >>> > > >> >> > therefore >>> > > >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and >>> > > >> >> > persuasions. >>> > > >> >> > And >>> > > >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying >>> > > >> >> > attention.
>>> > > >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right >>> > > >> >> > to do >>> > > >> >> > so. >>> > > >> >> > My >>> > > >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a >>> > > >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a >>> > > >> >> > GREAT >>> > > >> >> > deal >>> > > >> >> > of >>> > > >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
>>> > > >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
>>> > > >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. >>> > > >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
>>> > > >> >> Best,
>>> > > >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
>>> > > >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity >>> > > >> > Centre.
>>> > > >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? >>> > > >> She was >>> > > >> great >>> > > >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
>>> > > > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and >>> > > > couldn't get >>> > > > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends >>> > > > and >>> > > > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and >>> > > > later >>> > > > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The >>> > > > only >>> > > > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old >>> > > > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying >>> > > > to >>> > > > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile >>> > > > sadly >>> > > > at me and go about their business like zombies.
>>> > > > [snip]
>>> > > >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL >>> > > >> Hold >>> > > >> for >>> > > >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
>>> > > > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of >>> > > > all, >>> > > > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're >>> > > > not >>> > > > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I >>> > > > know, >>> > > > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
>>> > > > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at >>> > > > each >>> > > > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods >>> > > > and >>> > > > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok >>> > > > is >>> > > > always oblivion.
>>> > > Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" >>> > > in >>> > > Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's >>> > > hard >>> > > enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I >>> > > just >>> > > *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part >>> > > of some >>> > > super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is >>> > > history) and >>> > > when that began, the shit began to FLY.
>>> > > The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred >>> > > 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously >>> > > dwindling, >>> > > I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally >>> > > false--and >>> > > hey, >>> > > most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would >>> > > they >>> > > know?) >>> > > Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and >>> > > that is >>> > > irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, >>> > > learning about C of S, >>> > > and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
>>> > > Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- >>> > > that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them >>> > > "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
>>> > > Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
>>> > > Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, >>> > > If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL >>> > > and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
>>> > > We'll see.............
>>> > > Happy Holidays, Skipper---
>>> > > Tory/Magoo~~
>>> > Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't >>> > think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more >>> > interesting, frankly.
>>> > I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house >>> > of cards.
>>> > Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. >>> > That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough >>> > people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
>>> > Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has >>> > more class and a general disposition to get along with people that >>> > Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
>>> > Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in >>> > the >>> > 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. >>> > There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
>>> Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
>> None that I know of, anyway. I really don't think they can screw with >> him much.
> They *may* Sec Check him, but if they do, it's with a light touch, as they > are with all the celebs. Certainly, he gets VERY special treatment, and > that we both know began when Celebrity Center began.
> I'm sure they pitch in the "you need to be resposible, John" and the "You > could change the world" lines, too. Whatever bites---they'll use. > If they need to drive him around in a yellow corvette, they will. It's > what John Travolta *needs*, he gets.
> Tory/Magoo~~
>>> > If Travolta wised up, he'd realize that no matter what personal >>> > blackmail the cult might cull
> >>> > > >> >> >> On Nov 15, 3:08 am, "Magoo" <mago...@charter.net> wrote:
> >>> > > >> >> >> > There are a few things and certainly many people > >>> > > >> >> >> > in Scientology that I miss, still, and one of them > >>> > > >> >> >> > for sure is John Travolta.
> >>> > > >> >> >> I would like you to know that given yr recent totally > >>> > > >> >> >> positive > >>> > > >> >> >> description of yr experiences w/ John Travolta made me > >>> > > >> >> >> rethink my > >>> > > >> >> >> position on boycotting in this case musicians (Chick Corea > >>> > > >> >> >> & Mark > >>> > > >> >> >> Isham) for their involvement w/ CO$. Thank you for > >>> > > >> >> >> showing me > >>> > > >> >> >> that > >>> > > >> >> >> on one hand we can be opposed to what Scientology does and > >>> > > >> >> >> on the > >>> > > >> >> >> other hand can still support and enjoy people who are > >>> > > >> >> >> involved > >>> with > >>> > > >> >> >> it.
> >>> > > >> >> >> I just left you a message on yr answering machine. In a > >>> > > >> >> >> previous > >>> > > >> >> >> post > >>> > > >> >> >> you didn't seem to know who I was despite a current > >>> > > >> >> >> conversation > >>> w/ > >>> > > >> >> >> you on the phone. I attribute that to the fact that when I > >>> called > >>> > > >> >> >> you > >>> > > >> >> >> I used my real name rather than the one that shows up here. > >>> Sorry > >>> > > >> >> >> for > >>> > > >> >> >> the confusion.
> >>> > > >> >> >> Keep up the good work!
> >>> > > >> >> > I've met all of them, but you both broadly miss the point.
> >>> > > >> >> > "Travolta is such a nice guy" - yet he gets people into > >>> > > >> >> > $cientology > >>> > > >> >> > and > >>> > > >> >> > tries to play down how evil it is and all the people it > >>> > > >> >> > hurts, > >>> > > >> >> > because > >>> > > >> >> > they keep that away from him (I've seen this happen).
> >>> > > >> >> > Same with Chick (who's the nicest of the three), who is VERY > >>> > > >> >> > stringently against anyone who doesn't like $cientology.
> >>> > > >> >> > Isham was a knock-around rock musician until he got into > >>> > > >> >> > doing > >>> > > >> >> > scores, > >>> > > >> >> > which I think came about when Donna Linson, sister of > >>> > > >> >> > producer Art > >>> > > >> >> > Linson (who's out of $cientology now), got him into it via > >>> > > >> >> > Art. > >>> > > >> >> > (Donna > >>> > > >> >> > married Mark.) He does good scores but believe this - > >>> > > >> >> > there's a > >>> > > >> >> > BIG > >>> > > >> >> > $cientology cabal where they hire each other incessantly, > >>> > > >> >> > therefore > >>> > > >> >> > discriminating against people of other religions and > >>> > > >> >> > persuasions. > >>> > > >> >> > And > >>> > > >> >> > if you don't think they do this, you're truly not paying > >>> > > >> >> > attention.
> >>> > > >> >> > I boycott $cientologists in whatever medium. It's my right > >>> > > >> >> > to do > >>> > > >> >> > so. > >>> > > >> >> > My > >>> > > >> >> > thought is that if I put money in their pockets, they give a > >>> > > >> >> > disproportionate amount of it to an evil cult, who does a > >>> > > >> >> > GREAT > >>> > > >> >> > deal > >>> > > >> >> > of > >>> > > >> >> > harm and ruins lives.
> >>> > > >> >> And I respect your feelings and actions about that, Skipper.
> >>> > > >> >> I just don't quite agree----but hey, life rolls on. > >>> > > >> >> Perhaps next year I will...:)
> >>> > > >> >> Best,
> >>> > > >> >> Tory/Magoo~~
> >>> > > >> > Most of my involvement in the cult was in and around Celebrity > >>> > > >> > Centre.
> >>> > > >> A lot of it for me was, too. Did you see Amanda died recently? > >>> > > >> She was > >>> > > >> great > >>> > > >> in the old days----I loved hearing her sing.
> >>> > > > I did, but she like my friend Manu Topou simply got in and > >>> > > > couldn't get > >>> > > > out. They built their entire life around their $cientology friends > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > couldn't walk away. So did I, but I walked from them all, and > >>> > > > later > >>> > > > found that some felt the same way, but couldn't break away. The > >>> > > > only > >>> > > > nightmares I've had, for years, was about going back to my old > >>> > > > $cientology hangouts, telling people how well I was doing, trying > >>> > > > to > >>> > > > show them they could just leave if they want, and they just smile > >>> > > > sadly > >>> > > > at me and go about their business like zombies.
> >>> > > > [snip]
> >>> > > >> There's hope....especially with the Net--Scientology has lost ALL > >>> > > >> Hold > >>> > > >> for > >>> > > >> staff, public, AND celebrities, really.
> >>> > > > One would hope, but I think the reality isn't so easy. First of > >>> > > > all, > >>> > > > most of them are actors, most with lousy educations and they're > >>> > > > not > >>> > > > very bright beyond working a room and delivering lines. (Yeah, I > >>> > > > know, > >>> > > > Travolta flies jets, la de da.) Most of them aren't that talented.
> >>> > > > They herd together like sheep before a storm, smugly bleating at > >>> > > > each > >>> > > > other that they're bravely saving the universe and becoming gods > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > goddesses. Very sad group delusion, but the price of ego run amok > >>> > > > is > >>> > > > always oblivion.
> >>> > > Good points, and why I don't have tons of hope for the "Celebrities" > >>> > > in > >>> > > Scientology, either. You've described them well..........and it's > >>> > > hard > >>> > > enough to wake up---in fact, it was almost impossible for me to. I > >>> > > just > >>> > > *happened* to be willing to question things, (as well as be a part > >>> > > of some > >>> > > super odd stuff, which once I connected the dots, the rest is > >>> > > history) and > >>> > > when that began, the shit began to FLY.
> >>> > > The celebs, with their TOTALLY insulated worlds, with the inbred > >>> > > 'Scientology audiences" all around the world (although seriously > >>> > > dwindling, > >>> > > I'm sure DM's pitch of the 8 million helps, even if totally > >>> > > false--and > >>> > > hey, > >>> > > most of them never saw the *real* Scientology, anyways--so how would > >>> > > they > >>> > > know?) > >>> > > Why leave? They ARE the glue that keeps Scientology going....and > >>> > > that is > >>> > > irritating, but hey, happily most are finding their ways to the Net, > >>> > > learning about C of S, > >>> > > and you couldn't 'reg' them with a 10 foot pole.
> >>> > > Glad you're doing well. Understand about the bad dream--- > >>> > > that sucks, always will, but it sure is rewarding when One of them > >>> > > "blows" ---and many are these days! :)
> >>> > > Did you read Mike Rinder is OUT?
> >>> > > Now that guy would write a book and make a skillion, > >>> > > If they didn't put him in jail. I guess he'd need to tell ALL > >>> > > and many who leave aren't willing to do that.
> >>> > > We'll see.............
> >>> > > Happy Holidays, Skipper---
> >>> > > Tory/Magoo~~
> >>> > Happy holidays to you, too, Tory. I did read about Rinder, but I don't > >>> > think the public would care about a book from him. Your story is more > >>> > interesting, frankly.
> >>> > I responded to this about John because he's the key card in the house > >>> > of cards.
> >>> > Most of the public across the world now think Tom Cruise is nuts. > >>> > That's simply a fact. Andrew Morton's book will be read by enough > >>> > people that they'll think a lot more than nuts, they'll be disgusted.
> >>> > Travolta, however, is not seen with the same disdain because he has > >>> > more class and a general disposition to get along with people that > >>> > Cruise, if he ever had it, lost along the way and will never recover.
> >>> > Travolta stated publicly in a printed interview in Rolling Stone in > >>> > the > >>> > 80s that he wasn't fond of what the then current management was doing. > >>> > There were NO repercussions to him at the time.
> >>> Really? No sec check or handling? I'm surprised to hear that.
> >> None that I know of, anyway. I really don't think they can screw with > >> him much.
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