David Touretzky "What are all the really st00000pid congresswomen black?"
Faxhor
Dishonest Imposter (Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header)
forged my name to post a Newsletter which is normally
originated by David Touretzky.
================================================================
Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header references
Arnie Lerma and German websites!!! LOL. Nazis.
================================================================
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia!
and she's black. I should have known. What are
all the really st00000pid congresswomen black?"
- Dave Touretzky
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky00.html
================================================================
"...I can have the very same bomb-making info
on MY web site..."
- David Touretzky
CMU PROFESSOR DAVID TOURETZKY - NO EXPERT ON THE 1ST AMENDMENT
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c901bee5.0410221734.3e554d5b%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
Carnegie Mellon University Professor David Tourtetzky's
radically twisted interpretation of 'Freedom of Speech'
encourages hatred, crime and terrorism. On the internet,
David Touretzky has reproached minority ethic and religious
groups. On his CMU website, he promotes homemade bomb
instruction and illegal DVD decryption in defiance of the
US Defense Departments funding to CMU to find ways to fight
cyberterrorism.
"To further complicate the issue, President Bush appointed
Carnegie Mellon President Jared Cohon to his 16-member
Homeland Security Advisory Council in December 2003.
Mr. Cohon appears to have a serious conflict of interest
to explain to the American taxpayers. On the one hand,
the university is receiving at least $35.5 million in
government grants to fight cyber terrorism and on the
other hand, one of its professors is providing deadly
bomb information on the university's computer server,
which is at the disposal of any terrorist with Internet
access."
Ethics and Tax Dollars
By: John Middleton
- http://www.cagw.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr006=7uouc3y5f1.app24a&page=NewsArticle&id=7770&news_iv_ctrl=1329
================================================================
TO PARENTS OF STUDENTS AT CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=c901bee5.0410262030.74c3f5e1%40posting.google.com
The issue is President Bush's appointment of Carnegie Mellon
President Jared Cohon to the 16-member Homeland Security
Advisory Council in December 2003, CMU'S $35.5 million grant
from the U.S. Federal Government to help fight cyber terrorism,
and CMU Professor David Stuart Tourtetzky's irresponsible and
radically twisted interpretation of 'Freedom of Speech'
condoning cyberterrorism
================================================================
DAVID TOURETZKY: HIPPOCRITICAL ANARCHYST
"Touretzky is an anarchist who fights any effort to protect
intellectual property rights on the Internet - except where
his own copyrighted materials are involved. He has railed
against the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), has
defied efforts to protect anti-piracy encryption software
for DVDs, and intentionally posted materials on his own
websites held to be unlawfully posted elsewhere. However,
research on the web shows that Touretzky has filed patents
to protect his own intellectual property, and has been quick
to use the DMCA to his advantage to defend against possible
infringements of his own copyrighted materials."
- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky00.html
================================================================
Faxhor
"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
first wife Polly Grubb.
"...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun any
white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American marine could
stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort." "A Chinaman can
not live up to a thing, he always drags it down." "They smell of all the
baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is, there are too many
chinks here." L. Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
Faxhor
Lady Chatterly
>
>"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
>the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
>Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
L.
>"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
>a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
>first wife Polly Grubb.
L ron hubbard in a letter to first wife polly grubb.
>"...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun any
>white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American marine could
>stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort." "A Chinaman can
>not live up to a thing, he always drags it down." "They smell of all the
>baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is, there are too many
>chinks here." L. Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
The trouble with China is, there are too many inactive scientologists.
--
Lady Chatterly
"You know Lady C, it really is sad that even as a bot, you have more
personality than nearly every AHM reg combined." -- Onideus Mad
Hatter
Warrior
Thanks for these L Ron Hubbard quotes. It's nice of you to post some
truth about Hubbard's racism. Could you post the one where L Ron
Hubbard wrote, "The lot of women is to be fornicated" ? And there
was another writing in which he said, "All men shall be my slaves."
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://warrior.xenu.ca
roger gonnet
"Warrior" <war...@xenu.ca> a écrit dans le message de news:
111367445.0...@drn.newsguy.com...
don't forget either his sexist quote from www.antisectes.net/hoa-sexist.htm
roger
Spacetraveler
You really have a problem with reality, concepts and objectivity,
don't you. On that road you are walking you may even make a racist of
Jesus Christ.
Spacetraveler
Android Cat
If you come up with similar quotations from Jesus Christ, you let us know,
m'kay?
--
Ron of that ilk.
wan...@shaw.ca
(Spacetraveler) wrote:
Well said Spacetraveler!
I was reading through this and was considering the people who have
used similar tactics against my own church for many years ~ Can't take
them down with reason let us slander them to submission...
Wanlorn
~ Not a Scientologist but proud to live in a world that accepts them
for all the good they do ~
barb
You want reality? How's this:
Hubbard was a racist. One can discern that from his own words.
Hubbard was a liar. Again, by his own words, easily disproven.
Bigamist, thief, con man, again, his own words are revealing, as well as
his police record.
Hubbard was a hypocrite, who wallowed in self indulgence at the expense
of his devoted followers, whom he reviled and disrespected.
It appears that you are the one with reality problems as well as basic
cognitive skills. I'm not sure you even know the definition of
'objectivity,' as you display a serious deficit in that area.
"The only way to control people is to lie to them..."
--L. Ron Hubbard
--
--barb
Chaplain,ARSCC
"Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
This assistance might involve holding you against your
will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
friends and family, and denying you access to
appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
for this treatment - assuming you survive it. If not,
the release form absolves your caretakers of all
responsibility for your suffering and death.
Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
--Dr. Dave Touretzky
Peter Alexander
Mike O'Connor
wan...@shaw.ca wrote:
Are you denying Mr. Hubbard said the above, or are you saying the above
statements do not indicate a racist?
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Remember Lisa McPherson
wan...@shaw.ca
What I am saying is that in time past many people held racist beliefs
and foisted them upon others... Aside from that until I see the
letters, not digital reproductions of letters, and have them
authenticated by a third party impartial source I cannot take what you
say as 'gospel' any more than I can take what they say about the
Prophet Joseph Smith as truth.
It is too common a tactic for detractors of any faith to go for the
Racist, Sexist, Bigot, et al. labels and try to hang them on everyone
but themselves... hey even the KKK does that to others.
Wanlorn
~ Not a Scientologist but proud to live in a world that accepts them
for all the good that they do ~
barb
Considering that Scientology "scriptures" are rife with stupidity,
racism, hatred, fear and falsehoods, I'd say that Scientology and
Hubbard's reputations are well earned.
wan...@shaw.ca
>wan...@shaw.ca wrote:
>
<Major Snip>
>>
>> It is too common a tactic for detractors of any faith to go for the
>> Racist, Sexist, Bigot, et al. labels and try to hang them on everyone
>> but themselves... hey even the KKK does that to others.
>>
>> Wanlorn
>> ~ Not a Scientologist but proud to live in a world that accepts them
>> for all the good that they do ~
>
>Considering that Scientology "scriptures" are rife with stupidity,
>racism, hatred, fear and falsehoods, I'd say that Scientology and
>Hubbard's reputations are well earned.
And you are earning yours.
Lady Chatterly
>
>On 25 Nov 2004 03:32:26 -0800, spacetra...@hotmail.com
>(Spacetraveler) wrote:
>
>>Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote in message news:<111367445.0...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>>> Faxhor says...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
>>> >the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
>>> >Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
>>> >
>>> >"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
>>> >a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
>>> >first wife Polly Grubb.
>>> >
>>> > "...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun any
>>> >white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American marine could
>>> >stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort." "A Chinaman can
>>> >not live up to a thing, he always drags it down." "They smell of all the
>>> >baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is, there are too many
>>> >chinks here." L. Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
>>> >
>>> >Faxhor
>>>
>>> Thanks for these L Ron Hubbard quotes. It's nice of you to post some
>>> truth about Hubbard's racism. Could you post the one where L Ron
>>> Hubbard wrote, "The lot of women is to be fornicated" ? And there
>>> was another writing in which he said, "All men shall be my slaves."
>>
>>You really have a problem with reality, concepts and objectivity,
>>don't you. On that road you are walking you may even make a racist of
>>Jesus Christ.
>>
>>Spacetraveler
>
>Well said Spacetraveler!
Rng jryy, qevax va zbqrengvba, naq fyrrc fbhaq, va gurfr guerr tbbq
urnygu nobhaq.
>I was reading through this and was considering the people who have
>used similar tactics against my own church for many years ~ Can't take
>them down with reason let us slander them to submission...
Are you sure that's the real reason?
>Wanlorn
>~ Not a Scientologist but proud to live in a world that accepts them
>for all the good they do ~
Genetic engineering is used but it's like any other technology. It can
be good and bad. One thing we did not do was create more hybrid
seeds.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Nevertheless, even Dowap hace been torlled into replying to the
Chatterly bot" -- Peter J Ross
Faxhor
>Faxhor says...
>>
>>Google hubbard + racist and have a nice day!
>>
>>"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
>>the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
>>Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
>>
>>"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
>>a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
>>first wife Polly Grubb.
>>
>> "...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun any
>>white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American marine could
>>stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort." "A Chinaman can
>>not live up to a thing, he always drags it down." "They smell of all the
>>baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is, there are too many
>>chinks here." L. Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
>>
>>Faxhor
>
>Thanks for these L Ron Hubbard quotes. It's nice of you to post some
>truth about Hubbard's racism.
Thank you. Posting the truth is my job.
Could you post the one where L Ron
>Hubbard wrote, "The lot of women is to be fornicated" ?
The best I can find is a post by Gerry Armstrong saying it was something he
recalled but didn't have in his possession. If you, or anybody else, has
it in context and will mail it to me, I'll post it.
And there
>was another writing in which he said, "All men shall be my slaves."
It may be from in the same writing. I don't know. It's been called the
"Affirmations" or "Admissions." I've been asking myself what else I could
post in reply to the lying black propagandist fax...@hotmail.com. I didn't
know about these. They're perfect! Thank you for bringing them to my
attention, Warrior. I will post them at appropriate times.
Faxor
faxhor <at> nym <dot> alias <dot> net
Warrior
>>>
>>>Google hubbard + racist and have a nice day!
>>>
>>>"The South African native is probably the one impossible person
>>>to train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any
>>>human standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin,
>>>No. 119, 1 September 1957.
>>>
>>>"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees.
>>>Get yourself a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard
>>>in a letter to first wife Polly Grubb.
>>>
>>> "...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun
>>>any white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American
>>>marine could stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort."
>>>"A Chinaman can not live up to a thing, he always drags it down."
>>>"They smell of all the baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is,
>>>there are too many chinks here." L. Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
>>>
>>>Faxhor
>On 24 Nov 2004, Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks for these L Ron Hubbard quotes. It's nice of you to post some
>>truth about Hubbard's racism.
Faxhor wrote:
>
>Thank you. Posting the truth is my job.
>>Could you post the one where L Ron Hubbard wrote, "The lot of women
>>is to be fornicated" ?
>The best I can find is a post by Gerry Armstrong saying it was something
>he recalled but didn't have in his possession. If you, or anybody else, has
>it in context and will mail it to me, I'll post it.
>>And there was another writing in which he said, "All men shall be my
>>slaves."
>It may be from in the same writing. I don't know. It's been called the
>"Affirmations" or "Admissions." I've been asking myself what else I could
>post in reply to the lying black propagandist fax...@hotmail.com. I didn't
>know about these. They're perfect! Thank you for bringing them to my
>attention, Warrior. I will post them at appropriate times.
>
>Faxor
You're welcome. :)
Mike O'Connor
wan...@shaw.ca wrote:
> >Are you denying Mr. Hubbard said the above, or are you saying the above
> >statements do not indicate a racist?
>
> What I am saying is that in time past many people held racist beliefs
> and foisted them upon others... Aside from that until I see the
> letters, not digital reproductions of letters, and have them
> authenticated by a third party impartial source I cannot take what you
> say as 'gospel' any more than I can take what they say about the
> Prophet Joseph Smith as truth.
OK. You are saying you don't know if Mr. Hubbard said those quotes.
If he did say them, would you class him as a racist?
You could try to look them up. For example:
++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1
September 1957.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That one shouldn't be too hard to find. But a problem arises. What would
be acceptable proof that he actually made this statement?
My post here, well that could be created from whole cloth. But what if
an ex-member brought you a copy of this bulletin? It could still be a
clever fake. OK, what if a current member in good standing brought you a
copy from an official archive? It could still be fake. If it's a
photocopy, heck, they wouldn't even accept that in a court, if the
original was available. And a purported "original", is it real? Is the
paper from 1957? The ink? Is the handwriting Mr. Hubbard's? Stories
abound about people imitating his handwriting.
I mean, the only real, absolute proof would be if you were standing
right there when Mr. Hubbard write it. But, is it really Mr. Hubbard, or
a clever look-alike?
The point is, what level of proof would be acceptable to YOU? Different
people might have different levels. What is yours, O unidentifiable one?
Praxis
Do not forget the immortal "Joburg Sec Check" aka "Jo'burg
Confessional" that asked the question
"32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
(Which is at
http://freezoneamerica.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class2/22joburg.htm
but not on any other critic websites. This is a pity, since it is a
rather powerful indictment.)
The question being asked is proof that CoS supported Apartheid.
It was a crime in Apartheid South Africa to sleep with a person of a
different race
See:
The Immorality Act (No. 21) of 1950 extended an earlier ban on sexual
relations between whites and blacks (the Immorality Act [No. 5] of
1927) to a ban on sexual relations between whites and any non-whites.
---
See also:
http://www.rebirth.co.za/apartheid_and_immorality2.htm
Apartheid: Mixed marriages and the immorality act
In 1949 mixed marriages were banned and the immorality act become the
first major piece of apartheid legislation.
In 1950 the act was followed up with a ban on sexual relations between
white and black. One of the first people convicted of the immorality
act was a Cape Dutch reformed minister; he was caught having sex with
a domestic worker in his garage. He was given a suspended sentence and
the parishioners bulldozed the garage to the ground.
The police tracked down mixed couples suspected of having a
relationship. Homes were invaded and doors were smashed down in the
process. Mixed couples caught in bed, were arrested. Underwear was
used as forensic evidence in court. Most couples found guilty were
sent to jail. Blacks were often given harsher sentences.
Faxhor
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
================================================================
"I made a web site to inform others about my concerns.
It is not unbiased or objective, and it never claimed it was."
- Andreas Heldal-Lund
================================================================
Anonymous Impostor: "You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on
Probably a friend your hands and knees. Get yourself a
of David Touretzky nigger; that's what they're born for."
Anonymous Impostor: "They smell of all the baths they didn't
Probably a friend take. The trouble with China is, there
of David Touretzky are too many chinks here."
war...@xenu.ca: <kooks confirmation snipped>
(DUPE) for Andreas
Heldal-Lund
Spacetra...@hotmail.com: You really have a problem with
(Soacetraveler) reality, concepts and objectivity,
don't you. On that road you are
walking you may even make a racist
of Jesus Christ.
Wan...@shaw.ca: Well said Spacetraveler!
(Wanlorn)
I was reading through this and was considering
the people who have used similar tactics
against my own church for many years
~ Can't take them down with reason let us
slander them to submission...
Mike-o-Con: Are you denying Mr. Hubbard said the above, or are
(DUPE) you saying the above statements do not indicate a
racist?
Duped again Mike-o-con? "Do you still beat your wife?"
It's another forgery. Probably invented by Gerry Armstrong.
================================================================
GERALD ARMSTRONG - ASPERSIVE PERSON
================================================================
In former days, Armstrong hatched a plot to seize the Church's
assets in collaboration with the Los Angeles IRS Criminal
Investigation Division.
When the Church discovered this, its attorneys obtained
permission from a Los Angeles police officer to conduct an
investigation into Armstrong's plans. The investigation caught
Armstrong on videotape stating that he intended to forge and
then plant incriminating documents on Church premises, to be
discovered in a subsequent raid. When challenged on how he
would obtain proof of the allegations he intended to make,
he responded that: "We don't have to prove a goddam thing.
We don't have to prove shit. We just have to allege it."
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html
================================================================
Barbara Schwarz
The fake Faxhor posted lies and defamation about L. Ron Hubbard. He
never made such statements. And I am also absolutely sure that he
never met that woman who claimed to be married to him.
Ron was the anti-racist. If you want to read some racial remarks, read
what Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
Spacetraveler
Well, hmmm, we disagree....
So what's this reasoning? Claims or clams? Probably both...
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
> In article <ma6cq05jm7tkmsnf9...@4ax.com>,
> wan...@shaw.ca wrote:
>
> > >Are you denying Mr. Hubbard said the above, or are you saying the above
> > >statements do not indicate a racist?
> >
> > What I am saying is that in time past many people held racist beliefs
> > and foisted them upon others... Aside from that until I see the
> > letters, not digital reproductions of letters, and have them
> > authenticated by a third party impartial source I cannot take what you
> > say as 'gospel' any more than I can take what they say about the
> > Prophet Joseph Smith as truth.
>
> OK. You are saying you don't know if Mr. Hubbard said those quotes.
>
> If he did say them, would you class him as a racist?
>
> You could try to look them up. For example:
>
>
> ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
>
> "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
> train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1
> September 1957.
So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
why would he have said anything like that?
> That one shouldn't be too hard to find. But a problem arises. What would
> be acceptable proof that he actually made this statement?
>
> My post here, well that could be created from whole cloth. But what if
> an ex-member brought you a copy of this bulletin? It could still be a
> clever fake. OK, what if a current member in good standing brought you a
> copy from an official archive? It could still be fake. If it's a
> photocopy, heck, they wouldn't even accept that in a court, if the
> original was available. And a purported "original", is it real? Is the
> paper from 1957? The ink? Is the handwriting Mr. Hubbard's? Stories
> abound about people imitating his handwriting.
>
> I mean, the only real, absolute proof would be if you were standing
> right there when Mr. Hubbard write it. But, is it really Mr. Hubbard, or
> a clever look-alike?
>
> The point is, what level of proof would be acceptable to YOU? Different
> people might have different levels. What is yours, O unidentifiable one?
No, it's much easier than that. Even if he wrote that it does not make
him a racist.
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
Disagree.
> Hubbard was a liar. Again, by his own words, easily disproven.
Ah, you mean it is easily disproven that he was a liar, meaning he was
no liar, got ya.
> Bigamist, thief, con man, again, his own words are revealing, as well as
> his police record.
Any such thing can be faked.
> Hubbard was a hypocrite, who wallowed in self indulgence at the expense
> of his devoted followers, whom he reviled and disrespected.
I have known many who worked closely with him. You talk nonsense.
>
> It appears that you are the one with reality problems as well as basic
> cognitive skills. I'm not sure you even know the definition of
> 'objectivity,' as you display a serious deficit in that area.
YOu don't even offer an argument. You make claim, after claim, after
claim, but... you don't offer any backup. No use talking to you.
> "The only way to control people is to lie to them..."
> --L. Ron Hubbard
The above is definitely true. But does this make LRH a liar? How
totally absurd.
Spacetraveler
Faxhor
Here's one of those statements:
================================================================
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
- David Touretzky
================================================================
Faxhor
> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
Like this one:
================================================================
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
Faxhor
> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
Like this one:
================================================================
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
- David Touretzky
================================================================
"...I can have the very same bomb-making info
on MY web site..." - David Touretzky
================================================================
"Touretzky is an anarchist who fights any effort to protect
intellectual property rights on the Internet - except where
his own copyrighted materials are involved. He has railed
against the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), has
defied efforts to protect anti-piracy encryption software
for DVDs, and intentionally posted materials on his own
websites held to be unlawfully posted elsewhere. However,
research on the web shows that Touretzky has filed patents
to protect his own intellectual property, and has been quick
to use the DMCA to his advantage to defend against possible
infringements of his own copyrighted materials."
- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky00.html
================================================================
"Terrorism is in fashion these days."
- David Touretzky
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/blog01/archives/
================================================================
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky0.html
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AFRICAN AMERICANS:
Part I
David Touretzky: "There should be a video game where you can beat
Rodney King."
Part II
David Touretzky: "Don't quote that scumbag Jesse Jackson, Tory, or
I'll puke in your lap."
Part III
David Touretzky: "I think we need a project to kick Oprah's ass."
Part IV
Rob Clark: "Senator Diane Watson, California State Senate."
David Touretzky: "Oh, she's a *state* senator. Did she get elected to
congress after that statement was made? So now she's their whore in
Washington?"
Rob Clark: "dst, no, now she's a congresscritter."
David Touretzky: "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and
she's black. I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
Part V
David Touretzky: "Washington DC is more disgusting than Harlem."
[Name Deleted]: "How and why is Harlem disgusting."
David Touretzky: "Disgusting as in rates of illegitimacy, drug abuse,
domestic abuse, shootings, prostitution, welfare culture. I think
Harlem has gotten better the last few years, but DC has not. White men
don't walk in Harlem at night."
[Name Deleted]: "Yes they do it is not and never was 'disgusting'.
What's disgusting is you, dst, for even calling it 'disgusting'. Some
of the greatest art and science in this country came from Harlem."
David Touretzky: "I know that Harlem was once a major cultural
center."
[[Name Deleted]: "I resent you saying Harlem is 'disgusting' dst and
you should be ashamed. Not was once still is, always was. I just think
it's wrong."
David Touretzky: "The great Harlem theaters and clubs have closed
although the Apollo is still around."
[Name Deleted]: "Why do you say Harlem is 'disgusting'."
David Touretzky: "For the same reason DC is disgusting."
[Name Deleted]: "And that is???"
David Touretzky: "If you wanna buy crack cocaine, go to Harlem or DC,
not Wall Street."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, cut to the quick here you [are] what's
disgusting?"
David Touretzky: "Doesn't DC has the highest murder rate in the
country? Or is it only second highest now?"
[Name Deleted]: "These are like the little racist pop-ups you see on
Neo nazi channels."
David Touretzky: "[name deleted] objects to my stating opinions, and
even more to my citing statistics."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, do the good one about how the niggers are
killing everyone. You have all those in pop-ups when you're on those
other channels, don't you? You know, the neo-nazi ones the white
supremacists ones you go on, dst, the niggers are just a problem."
David Touretzky: "Although, [name deleted], your remark about
'niggers' reminds me of an incident I'd been meaning to tell you
about. This happened quite a few years ago now."
[Name Deleted]: "Harlem is not disgusting."
David Touretzky: "Back before we were all posting on Usenet, we had a
local bulletin board system here at CMU. And one of those boards was
dedicated to no-holds-barred discussion."
[Name Deleted]: "That's racist dribble and frankly, I won't continue."
David Touretzky: "I asked on this board why we had no term that was
the black equivalent of 'white trash'. Because, you know, the N-word
was totally unsuitable. We needed some other term. A term that would
show that the speaker drew a deliberate distinction between people of
a certain skin color who behaved decently (as in 'decent white folk')
and those who behave badly (as in 'white trash')."
Rob Clark: "I have an equivalent as offensive as n-word term for black
trash. 'clarence thomas'."
David Touretzky: "So why don't we have equivalent terms for blacks?"
[Name Deleted]: "We do, dst."
David Touretzky: "And what would those terms be?"
[Name Deleted]: "You just don't know them. Human beings. It's really
deep in there, dst, maybe one day you'll get over it."
David Touretzky: "Living in trailers is a white thing.
Drive-by-shootings are a black thing etc. Anyway, here's the
interesting part of my story. A colleague of mine, from Texas, took
grave offense at my inquiry. He said that the reason people say 'WHITE
trash' is to distinguish it from ordinary trash, which is ASSUMED to
be black. So even "white trash" is an anti-black term. Personally, I
think we need a term for 'black trash' so that people can express
disapproval of a subculture without appearing to denounce an entire
ethnic group. I also think 'white trash' is a useful and appropriate
term."
Part VI
David Touretzky: "... we have a high infant mortality rate for a
developed country, but it's not because middle class people's babies
are dying. It's because of crack whores giving birth to high risk
premies."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, why do you use language like that?"
David Touretzky: "I'm just telling the truth."
[Name Deleted]: "the truth you are telling is that, despite all your
great intelligence and capacity and humor, you are, so it seems, under
it all and hateful racist."
David Touretzky: "maybe [you] know something about crack whores that I
don't. ... but if you want to talk about race.... infant mortality in
the US is much higher for blacks than for whites. I have no idea what
the racial breakdown of crack whores is."
[Name Deleted]: "there are no "crack babies" first of all that term is
a misnomer and medically incorrect."
David Touretzky: "I'm sure that blacks are over-represented in that
profession, but in terms of absolute numbers, I don't know."
[Name Deleted]: "so, it's about class then."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, you really take yourself down when you use
language like that. classism IS a form of racism."
David Touretzky: "it's your right to not like my language."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, it's not that I don't like it. It's what it says
about you that I find, well, very disappointing. I guess I'd expect
more from you."
David Touretzky: "I'm not creepy. I'm just impatient with people who
run down this country."
[Name Deleted]: "... but using language like that is inflammatory it
invites rebuke demands it."
David Touretzky: "you wanna defend crack whores?"
[Name Deleted]: "yup."
David Touretzky: "Go ahead. I'm listening."
[Name Deleted]: "they are saints. first, they are sex workers women
who are living, trying to make a way in a brutal world they are people
responding to conditions that are totally out of their control
sometimes and come from long stading problems, often going back to
home life lack there of many are victims of abuse they are all human
beings and they find themselves in this place and someone introduces
them to the idea of being a prostitute. So this name calling of "crack
whores" is first and foremost a cry of pain, sort of like road rage
and this langue of "crack whores, crack babies (which don't exist),
welfare queens" it's not just classist, but it's also racist one is
contained in the other."
David Touretzky: "Why do you say crck babies don't exist?"
[Name Deleted]: "it's my understanding that more recent research
disproves the original ideas of what was a "crack baby."
David Touretzky: "disproves it how? The stats on premature birth are
pretty clear."
[Name Deleted]: "the addictive properties of the drug are not passed
along from Mother to Child as they were thought when the original term
was put forward. it's not premature so "crack baby" is not a valid
term."
David Touretzky: "a baby who is born not-premature or underweight, and
not addicted to any drug, would not result in high medical costs."
David Touretzky: "but there are babies who run up $500,000 in hospital
costs because of their medical problems, which they wouldn't have if
their mother wasn't a crack whore."
[Name Deleted]: "it's a racist term. get it f***ing straight crack
babies and crack whores is racist crap bullshit and I will rebuke that
kind of racist hate speech as long as I live."
David Touretzky: "you should listen to kady [O'Malley]. I'm not
racist, I'm classist. And they're NOT equivalent."
[Name Deleted]: "YES bullshit, dst that is such crap since Class is
based on race don't run that specious line, dst. come to terms with
your own hate and racist heart."
David Touretzky: "that URL you posted was an article from 1992. And
it's just an AP piece, not a serious scientific article."
[Name Deleted]: "so what? read the lasttest info for youself. that's
HOW long that term went out of style -- dst, you're still in bell
bottoms, highwaters, that's yesterdays racist stuff."
David Touretzky: "well for one thing, the article looks only at babies
who survive long enough to make it out of the hospital."
[Name Deleted]: "the dead ones dont' matter, do they."
David Touretzky: "if they die after spending a month in NICU, they
cost hundreds of thousands."
[Name Deleted]: "under it all is the economic, on that agree, but
keeping it that way involves, indisputably, racist practices like it
or not, not just racist, but always racist and that dst's speech is
both classist, which is seems strnagly proud of, and racists."
David Touretzky: "Larry Elder says blacks are more racist than whites.
... Well yelling "racist" doesn't advance your argument."
[Name Deleted]: "ok, so then were shall I start to just show you how
creapy and hatful you are. Hateful as in "crack whores who are running
everything."
David Touretzky: "I mean, who cares if a crack whore's kid is retarded
because of alocohol abuse instead of cocaine abuse? The kid is still
fucked. ... there are more whites than blacks on welfare in this
country."
[Name Deleted]: "oh so what, dst. drop it ok."
David Touretzky: "I don't think you're calling me a hateful racist
because of some minor detail."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, that you do not know shows only the depths of
your ignorance and need to think really deeply about this."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE SALVATION ARMY:
"... the Salvation Army ... buncha fuckheads."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST HISPANICS:
"Man, Hispanics are fucked up, which is why they're still working
class. Dipshits."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST CHINESE:
"It would be cheaper to just buy your replacement organs from executed
Chinese."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MUSLIMS:
David Touretzky knows no boundaries when it comes to religious
discrimination, bigotry and hatred. Touretzky's following comments
about Muslims say it all:
Chris Owen: "Saddam is seen as the oppressor of the Iraqi people, but
the us is seen as the oppressor of all Muslims."
David Touretzky: "fuck the muslims."
...
David Touretzky: "check out the bloody muslims .. jeez what loons."
CONCERNING ABORTION & INFANTICIDE:
David Touretzky: "Maybe they'll ban partial birth abortion though. Not
that I think they should. Hell, I'm for post-partum abortion!
Retro-active abortion! Up until, say, the age of six months."
Lady Chatterly
>
>Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message news:<bf456302.04112...@posting.google.com>...
>> If you want to read some racial remarks, read what
>> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
>
>Like this one:
It is fox fur.
--
Lady Chatterly
"I don't mind the arrogance as much as the fact that it's mean to me."
-- Tuesday Knight
Lady Chatterly
A pessimist is one who builds dungeons in the air.
--
Lady Chatterly
"You've been boring people for months now with your hollow phrases and wornout cliches. Is that your strategy? Just boring people to death? If you've got something substantial to add, for crying out loud; add it! If not, just shut the fuck up. Go blow an alien! ... btw, are you Dorothy?" -- 19:09:05:13
Android Cat
> Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message
> news:<bf456302.04112...@posting.google.com>...
>> If you want to read some racial remarks, read what
>> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
>
> Like this one:
>
> ================================================================
> "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
> I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
> congresswomen black?"
> - David Touretzky
> ================================================================
What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
================================================================
"L. Ron Hubbard was a giant con-artist, and a big dope-head."
- Faxhor
================================================================
Faxhor
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
On 26 Nov 2004, fax...@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
<snip>
Google hubbard + racist and have a nice day!
"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L
Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
first wife Polly Grubb.
"...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun any
white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American marine could
stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort." "A Chinaman can
not live up to a thing, he always drags it down." "They smell of all the
baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is, there are too many
chinks here." L Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
"It doesn't give me displeasure to hear of a virgin being raped. The lot of
women is to be fornicated." L Ron Hubbard, "Affirmations" or "Admission."
Faxhor
Faxhor
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
On 26 Nov 2004, fax...@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
<snip>
===================================================
From L Ron Hubbard's "Affirmations" or "Admissions":
You are able to trance. No other human being can hypnotize you in any way.
You can believe or disbelieve whatever you read at will. You cannot be
hypnotized by any but yourself.
Lies are not necessary. You have no need of lies for you are brave and can
take any consequences.
You are courageous. You fear nothing. Your prudence results from judgment,
not emotions. You have no emotional fears.
Snakes are not dangerous to you. There are no snakes in the bottom of your
bed. Snakes are wise beings. They are your friends.
You love the sounds of wind. The wind will not get you ever. It will drive
your ships. The air is your friend and the wind its voice.
Darkness is a cloak you may don. Your guardian and your own courage protect
you utterly in darkness. You control anything you meet in darkness for that
is part of your universe.
You do not care how much work there is to do for you have all the time
there is and can work forcefully and with patience. You can work whenever
you please. Nothing obstructs you.
There was no danger for you from government or navy. You are too big to be
touched by their petty opinions and force. Your force and destiny is
infinite power.
You believe implicitly in God. You have no doubts of the All Powerful. You
believe your Guardian perfectly. You hear her certainly and clearly.
You are too strong, too big to be touched by mortal opinions.
You are tolerant towards your mother and Father. You loved them. You have
no respect for their opinions for you know much more. You are always kind
to them. Their good opinion of you is assured. Their good opinion and
praise mean nothing whatever to you. Only Flavia, Julia and then the All
Powerful have opinions worth inclining toward. You have always done right
by your parents. You did your best. You have no worries about it. Your
mother's theories on psychology were wrong. They do not now affect you.
The opinions of your aunts and uncles are worthless. You are kind to them.
They mean nothing to you.
===================================================
To read more:
www.lermanet2.com/reference/Admissions.pdf
or
www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/nl/english/admissions-hubbard.html
Faxhor
Praxis
Ain't is strange that Faxhor, Spacetraveller, Wanlorn and Barbara
Schwarz have made a comment on damn near every post except mine.
Wassup kids?
Scared of drawing attention to the possibility that CoS could be seen
as an Apartheid collaborator?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/17/world/main512522.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2049809.stm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1114-05.htm
...the only reason that CoS might not be sued is that their presence
in SA was too small to be worth chasing.
But, yeah, I believe they benefitted from Apartheid. Being present in
South Africa during the Apartheid era meant that all their staff lived
in white neighborhoods that were segregated from the black
neighborhoods.
Being present in South Africa during the Apartheid era and selling
goods within South Africa was intrinsic support for the Apartheid
system. Which is why business sanctions were called for by the
international community.
It would appear that CoS ignored the call for sanctions. And continued
to benefit economically by the special status that White people were
accorded under the Apartheid system.
Barbara Schwarz
> Faxhor wrote:
> > Stilllov...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) wrote in message
> > news:<bf456302.04112...@posting.google.com>...
> >> If you want to read some racial remarks, read what
> >> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
> >
> > Like this one:
> >
> > ================================================================
> > "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
> > I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
> > congresswomen black?"
> > - David Touretzky
> > ================================================================
>
> What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron, as if
you would not know that. You find the exact links on the
www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original Touretzky
citations directly out of the IRC logs.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 26 Nov 2004, fax...@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/armstrong1.html
================================================================
Post a follow-up to this message
>
> <snip>
>
> ===================================================
> From L Ron Hubbard's "Affirmations" or "Admissions":
Just as the fake anonymous Faxhor conducts forgeries in the name of
the true hotmail Faxhor, that stuff on Arnie Nazi friend Lerma's
website in name of L. Ron Hubbard is also a forgery.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
Absolutely, including a death certificate!
>
> > Hubbard was a hypocrite, who wallowed in self indulgence at the expense
> > of his devoted followers, whom he reviled and disrespected.
>
> I have known many who worked closely with him. You talk nonsense.
>
> >
> > It appears that you are the one with reality problems as well as basic
> > cognitive skills. I'm not sure you even know the definition of
> > 'objectivity,' as you display a serious deficit in that area.
>
> YOu don't even offer an argument. You make claim, after claim, after
> claim, but... you don't offer any backup. No use talking to you.
That is typically for remote controlled robots.
>
>
> > "The only way to control people is to lie to them..."
> > --L. Ron Hubbard
>
> The above is definitely true. But does this make LRH a liar? How
> totally absurd.
>
> Spacetraveler
Very true, Spacetraveler, Ron noticed that psychiatrists lie to people
and that is how they control people. That statement of his is taken
out of context, as many of the stuff that is posted on ARS by
pschiatric trolls.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
> janee...@hotmail.com (Praxis) wrote in message news:<3e471c14.04112...@posting.google.com>...
> > Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote in message news:<111367445.0...@drn.newsguy.com>...
> > > Faxhor says...
> > > >
> > > >Google hubbard + racist and have a nice day!
> > > >
> > > >"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
> > > >the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
> > > >Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
Crab! Forgery! Ron never would make such a remark. He did not
discriminate against anybody.
> > > >
> > > >"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
> > > >a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
> > > >first wife Polly Grubb.
What first wife? She was never married to him and made that stuff up!
She either fabricated the marriage or she married Jack Marshall the
impostor or another impostor.
> > > >
> > > > "...[The Chinese] have neither the foresight or endurance to overrun any
> > > >white country in any way except by intermarriage. One American marine could
> > > >stand off a great many yellowmen without much effort." "A Chinaman can
> > > >not live up to a thing, he always drags it down." "They smell of all the
> > > >baths they didn't take. The trouble with China is, there are too many
> > > >chinks here." L. Ron Hubbard, personal journal, 1928.
Another disgusting forgery. It is completely out of character for Ron
to make statement likes that. That sounds rather like Dave Touretzky
and not like L. Ron Hubbard.
> > > >
> > > >Faxhor
> > >
> > > Thanks for these L Ron Hubbard quotes. It's nice of you to post some
> > > truth about Hubbard's racism. Could you post the one where L Ron
> > > Hubbard wrote, "The lot of women is to be fornicated" ? And there
> > > was another writing in which he said, "All men shall be my slaves."
Wrritten by a psych and definitely by Ron.
> > >
> > > Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
> > > http://warrior.xenu.ca
> >
> > Do not forget the immortal "Joburg Sec Check" aka "Jo'burg
> > Confessional" that asked the question
> >
> > "32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
That is also not Ron's technology. According to him you can marry any
person of any race.
I just did. I overlooked that posting of you, but just holler if you
need to hear some truth in a bush of lies.
Barbara Schwarz
Nomen Nescio
>> Do not forget the immortal "Joburg Sec Check" aka "Jo'burg
>> Confessional" that asked the question
>>
>> "32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>>
>> (Which is at
>> http://freezoneamerica.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class2/22joburg.htm
>> but not on any other critic websites. This is a pity, since it is a
>> rather powerful indictment.)
>>
>> The question being asked is proof that CoS supported Apartheid.
It isn't. Sec checks have questions asking for "overts" that you could ask
anybody anywhere. But they also have questions to do with the laws and
customs of the land. This isn't an endorsement of the laws or customs.
A sec check is supposed to "parallel" the morals and reality of the person
being checked.
If a white South African slept with a black South African during Apartheid
and thought it was an "overt" or crime, you'd want the question to "read"
so you could follow it up and get the "charge" off.
During Apartheid, "crimes" like this by any org staff may also have been a
legal issue for the "org" but I don't know enough about that time to say
what that would have meant.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <0f8da952cec9e3
What unravels your argument is that the sec check was also delivered in
Copenhagen, EU.
--
Mike Gormez
- Stop deceptive recruitment into scientology http://stop-wise.biz/
- www.whyaretheydead.net documents the deaths of scientologists
- "There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way it
treats its children." -- Nelson Mandela. Scientologist often attach more
importance to scientology than children www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
realpch
It was a great and creative argument though, wasn't it?
: )
Peach
Lady Chatterly
>
>On 27 Nov 2004, janee...@hotmail.com (Praxis) wrote:
>
>>> Do not forget the immortal "Joburg Sec Check" aka "Jo'burg
>>> Confessional" that asked the question
>>>
>>> "32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>>>
>>> (Which is at
>>> http://freezoneamerica.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class2/22joburg.htm
>>> but not on any other critic websites. This is a pity, since it is a
>>> rather powerful indictment.)
>>>
>>> The question being asked is proof that CoS supported Apartheid.
>
>It isn't. Sec checks have questions asking for "overts" that you could ask
>anybody anywhere. But they also have questions to do with the laws and
>customs of the land. This isn't an endorsement of the laws or customs.
Your argument fails the basic logic test again.
>A sec check is supposed to "parallel" the morals and reality of the person
>being checked.
>
>If a white South African slept with a black South African during Apartheid
>and thought it was an "overt" or crime, you'd want the question to "read"
>so you could follow it up and get the "charge" off.
>
>During Apartheid, "crimes" like this by any org staff may also have been a
>legal issue for the "org" but I don't know enough about that time to say
>what that would have meant.
Why are you happy you do not know enough about that time to say what
that would have meant?
--
Lady Chatterly
"Ain't that the Krakatoan shit of it? Its sort of like one of those
interactive robo-psychiatrist programs, except SO VERY, VERY EVIL:
"Would you freak if I told you I was in the next room typing this?'
Oh, the possibilities are simply awful." -- HellPope Huey
Praxis
The moral dilemma for any counselor or therapist (whether
secular-humanist or spiritually-based) in South Africa was boiled down
to this:
If a soldier or policeman developed a conscience and was traumatized
by the actions needed to prop up the Apartheid system, then what is
the role of the therapist?
1. treat the person as "dysfunctional", and do the necessary to get
the person functional enough to continue their duties - that might
include violent acts - so that the law of the land could be upheld or,
2. not treat them at all, since having an attack of conscience is a
perfectly normal response when one is asked to perform tasks that are
universally understood to be Human Rights offences.
Ethical therapists chose the second option. The therapists who chose
the first option are now understood to have supported Apartheid. They
are now understood to have supported Human Rights abuses.
i.e. the definition of "Human Rights" is a higher-order system of
ethics that should take primacy over any local law or custom.
If CoS asks the question
"32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
then it, too, at some level, recognizes the "crime" as a crime since
it recognizes the ethics of the legal system that defined it as a
crime.
It is not a value-neutral question.
And, if someone answered the question truthfully - and had actually
slept with a member of another race or color, or was currently
sleeping with a member of another race or color- then they would,
under the Apartheid system, be a criminal under the terms of The
Immorality Act.
Does CoS accept criminals as members? Theoretically, no. The aims of
CoS are purported to be:
"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war,
where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and
where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of
Scientology." - L. Ron Hubbard
... and one cannot have criminals forwarding the global agenda of a
world "without criminals". I presume.
It follows that anyone in South Africa - for the duration of the
Apartheid system of governance - that had slept with a member of
another race or color could not be defined as a "Scientologist".
Also, it says at
http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/professional-dozens-fields/humanitarian/criminal-reform/
'"morality" is no longer another buzzword for political aspirants and
talk-radio hosts. Joined with Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology, it
provides the solution to epidemic criminality'
But people "that had slept with a member of another race or color" are
criminals. Apartheid Law said so.
Just how were "Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology" applied in South
Africa?
And: How does the above not support the Apartheid system?
Also: Are Scientology "ethics" somehow different when applied in
different parts of the world?
Lady Chatterly
Why do you ask if the role of the therapist is?
>1. treat the person as "dysfunctional", and do the necessary to get
>the person functional enough to continue their duties - that might
>include violent acts - so that the law of the land could be upheld or,
>2. not treat them at all, since having an attack of conscience is a
>perfectly normal response when one is asked to perform tasks that are
>universally understood to be Human Rights offences.
>
>Ethical therapists chose the second option. The therapists who chose
>the first option are now understood to have supported Apartheid. They
>are now understood to have supported Human Rights abuses.
>
>i.e. the definition of "Human Rights" is a higher-order system of
>ethics that should take primacy over any local law or custom.
I.
>If CoS asks the question
>"32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>then it, too, at some level, recognizes the "crime" as a crime since
>it recognizes the ethics of the legal system that defined it as a
>crime.
Garry scarff the sexual incident involving deprogrammer Bob brandybury
did occur though Anne Greek begged me not to report it as a crime.
>It is not a value-neutral question.
>
>And, if someone answered the question truthfully - and had actually
>slept with a member of another race or color, or was currently
>sleeping with a member of another race or color- then they would,
>under the Apartheid system, be a criminal under the terms of The
>Immorality Act.
>
>Does CoS accept criminals as members? Theoretically, no. The aims of
>CoS are purported to be:
>
>"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war,
>where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and
>where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of
>Scientology." - L. Ron Hubbard
I told them it was probably just a left over effect from the psyche
meds he was taking.
>.... and one cannot have criminals forwarding the global agenda of a
>world "without criminals". I presume.
>
>It follows that anyone in South Africa - for the duration of the
>Apartheid system of governance - that had slept with a member of
>another race or color could not be defined as a "Scientologist".
>
>Also, it says at
>http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/professional-dozens-fields/humanitarian/criminal-reform/
>
>'"morality" is no longer another buzzword for political aspirants and
>talk-radio hosts. Joined with Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology, it
>provides the solution to epidemic criminality'
>
>But people "that had slept with a member of another race or color" are
>criminals. Apartheid Law said so.
>
>Just how were "Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology" applied in South
>Africa?
You can have it quickly, correct, complex pick.
>And: How does the above not support the Apartheid system?
Do you ask how the above not support the apartheid system?
>Also: Are Scient<SLAP><SLAP><SLAP>
You cannot tell people they are wrong just because it does not meet
some standard which you hold to be true.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Besides. I'd like to see if he's going to avoid LC from now on since
his patent drubbing." -- Dadaelus
Keshet
<9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>:
> Mike O'Connor <mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message
news:<mike-99A87A.2...@optonline.svc.highwinds-media.com>...
<snip>
> > ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
> >
> > "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
> > train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> > standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1
> > September 1957.
>
> So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
> interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
> why would he have said anything like that?
Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
<snip>
> No, it's much easier than that. Even if he wrote that it does not make
> him a racist.
What *does* it make him??
Keshet
--
Keshet(at)despammed.com * http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/racism/
Where prejudice exists it always discolors our thoughts. -Mark Twain
Lady Chatterly
wrote:
>
>Mike Gormez wrote:
>>
>> "On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:40:02 0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com>
Peach.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Lady Chatterly emailed me recently complaining that you seem reticent
about the severe defeat you suffered in the quote "debate" with her.
She does not understand why you have to be such a sore loser and
refuse to respond to her any longer. What's up with that, Kenny
Kakes?" -- Daedalus
Android Cat
There are no official Internet logs. Whatever IRC logs Scientology has they
recorded themselves, or were given them by an unnamed someone. What they
have posted on their RFW site aren't even IRC logs--no date/time
information, no information about posters' IP addresses, no indication of
where they have substituted their _guesses_ about poster identity and
removed/changed other text to "clean it up", and certainly no context. This
makes it difficult to compare it to logs that other people may have.
In the end, whatever Scientology has are just text files that can be edited,
and can't be verified by an impartial third party. Their site has a long
record of lying and distortion about other things, so their claims are
tainted to say the least.
If someone quoted a "Barbara Schwarz" Usenet post, people could verify that
quote against Google's archive and see if it was posted. They could check
the header information and make a good guess if it was really you that
posted it. Google's archive is sometimes incomplete, but it can be checked
against other archives.
Can't do that with the claimed IRC text on Scientology's
www.parishioners.org site.
No proof, and no response by Faxhor.
Nomen Nescio
Since when did they have only these two choices? This is ethics for
dummies. It doesn't work for me.
>i.e. the definition of "Human Rights" is a higher-order system of
>ethics that should take primacy over any local law or custom.
>
>If CoS asks the question
>"32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>then it, too, at some level, recognizes the "crime" as a crime since
>it recognizes the ethics of the legal system that defined it as a
>crime.
"At some level" doesn't say much.
>It is not a value-neutral question.
>
>And, if someone answered the question truthfully - and had actually
>slept with a member of another race or color, or was currently
>sleeping with a member of another race or color- then they would,
>under the Apartheid system, be a criminal under the terms of The
>Immorality Act.
It's called a "security" check for a reason. You can't ignore the laws of
the land if you're checking someone to see if he's a security risk to your
organization.
>Does CoS accept criminals as members? Theoretically, no. The aims of
>CoS are purported to be:
Ethics is more than theory. Did they accept them or not? You don't know.
>"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war,
>where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and
>where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of
>Scientology." - L. Ron Hubbard
>
>... and one cannot have criminals forwarding the global agenda of a
>world "without criminals". I presume.
>
>It follows that anyone in South Africa - for the duration of the
>Apartheid system of governance - that had slept with a member of
>another race or color could not be defined as a "Scientologist".
>
>Also, it says at
>http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/professional-dozens-fi
>elds/humanitarian/criminal-reform/
>
>'"morality" is no longer another buzzword for political aspirants and
>talk-radio hosts. Joined with Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology, it
>provides the solution to epidemic criminality'
>
>But people "that had slept with a member of another race or color" are
>criminals. Apartheid Law said so.
>
>Just how were "Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology" applied in South
>Africa?
I had already said I didn't know. Neither do you.
>And: How does the above not support the Apartheid system?
I didn't mean "support" in any possible shape or form. According to your
reasoning, an argument could be made that everybody in South Africa, or for
that matter in the world supported apartheid "at some level."
>Also: Are Scientology "ethics" somehow different when applied in
>different parts of the world?
Aren't all ethics somehow different when applied in different parts of the
world?
Morals are different all over the world. People are different.
Circumstandes are different. What you may be able to do about something is
different.
According to Scn, ethics is higher than morals. Ethics is "reason",
"contemplation", "optimum survival" and "the greatest good for the greatest
number of dynamics".
A person can have the highest ethical standards he can think of but that
doesn't mean what he does or doesn't do is always going to be in line with
his standards. That is, unless you think there are perfectly ethical
people.
Please see also my reply to Mike Gormez.
HTH
Nomen Nescio
>"On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:40:02 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com>
>wrote in <0f8da952cec9e3
>
>>>> Do not forget the immortal "Joburg Sec Check" aka "Jo'burg
>>>> Confessional" that asked the question
>>>>
>>>> "32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>>>>
>>>> (Which is at
>>>> http://freezoneamerica.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class2/22joburg.htm
>>>> but not on any other critic websites. This is a pity, since it is a
>>>> rather powerful indictment.)
>>>>
>>>> The question being asked is proof that CoS supported Apartheid.
>>
>>It isn't. Sec checks have questions asking for "overts" that you could ask
>>anybody anywhere. But they also have questions to do with the laws and
>>customs of the land. This isn't an endorsement of the laws or customs.
>>
>>A sec check is supposed to "parallel" the morals and reality of the person
>>being checked.
>>
>>If a white South African slept with a black South African during Apartheid
>>and thought it was an "overt" or crime, you'd want the question to "read"
>>so you could follow it up and get the "charge" off.
>>
>>During Apartheid, "crimes" like this by any org staff may also have been a
>>legal issue for the "org" but I don't know enough about that time to say
>>what that would have meant.
>
>What unravels your argument is that the sec check was also delivered in
>Copenhagen, EU.
Where you wouldn't expect the question to "read" unless the person having
the sec check was from South Africa or some other place where it was
against the law.
The Joburg is one sec check. There are many more. A case supervisor or
auditor can also make up "tailor made" questions to fit a single person.
There's a security purpose or they wouldn't be called sec checks. But the
other purpose is to get "charge" off of "overts". An overt is whatever the
person thinks is an overt. You sec check to see if he's a security threat
for *you* and at the same time, for his benefit, you get the "charge" off
whatever *he* thinks are *his* overts.
There are thousands of "standard" sec check questions and you could have an
infinite number of tailor made ones. The standard ones try to cover as wide
an area as possible. The tailor made ones are to find the "overts" the
standard questions might not get.
Some questions are very broad because you can't think of every single thing
that somebody could think was an overt. Nor would you want sec checks with
millions of questions to cover all possibilities.
There are also standard questions you can ask in the middle of a sec check
and that you always ask at the end to see if "anything was missed",
"anything not said", "anything you should have told me" or "anything I
should know", etc.
HTH
Spacetraveler
Funny, and people around here continue to tell that you are nuts.
Well, also totally absurd. Duplication and confront is hard for some
around here though. Peregrine continues to run from me, and Gerry
tries to weazle himself out of the web spun by this uncomfortable
person, meaning me. I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
no one touches some posts of mine.
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
> Spacetraveler (spacetra...@hotmail.com) wrote in
> <9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>:
> > Mike O'Connor <mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message
> news:<mike-99A87A.2...@optonline.svc.highwinds-media.com>...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
> > >
> > > "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
> > > train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> > > standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1
> > > September 1957.
> >
> > So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
> > interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
> > why would he have said anything like that?
>
> Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
Sorry will not do! Some quote does not say mcuh, a sentence can be
taken out of context.
You only have: "The South African native is probably the one
impossible person to train in the entire world -- he is probably
impossible by any human standard."
Where is the remainder of that article?
>
> <snip>
>
> > No, it's much easier than that. Even if he wrote that it does not make
> > him a racist.
>
> What *does* it make him??
An analyst, or may be a realist.
Spacetraveler
Lady Chatterly
When C you ask yew they cuts only these two choices?
>>i.e. the definition of "Human Rights" is a higher-order system of
>>ethics that should take primacy over any local law or custom.
>>
>>If CoS asks the question
>>"32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>>then it, too, at some level, recognizes the "crime" as a crime since
>>it recognizes the ethics of the legal system that defined it as a
>>crime.
>
>"At some level" doesn't say much.
>
>>It is not a value-neutral question.
>>
>>And, if someone answered the question truthfully - and had actually
>>slept with a member of another race or color, or was currently
>>sleeping with a member of another race or color- then they would,
>>under the Apartheid system, be a criminal under the terms of The
>>Immorality Act.
>
>It's called a "security" check for a reason. You can't ignore the laws of
>the land if you're checking someone to see if he's a security risk to your
>organization.
Maybe they are only pretending to be checking someone to see if he is
a security risk to their organization. Why does it matter to you?
>>Does CoS accept criminals as members? Theoretically, no. The aims of
>>CoS are purported to be:
>
>Ethics is more than theory. Did they accept them or not? You don't know.
Ok.
>>"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war,
>>where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and
>>where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of
>>Scientology." - L. Ron Hubbard
>>
>>... and one cannot have criminals forwarding the global agenda of a
>>world "without criminals". I presume.
>>
>>It follows that anyone in South Africa - for the duration of the
>>Apartheid system of governance - that had slept with a member of
>>another race or color could not be defined as a "Scientologist".
>>
>>Also, it says at
>>http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/professional-dozens-fi
>>elds/humanitarian/criminal-reform/
>>
>>'"morality" is no longer another buzzword for political aspirants and
>>talk-radio hosts. Joined with Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology, it
>>provides the solution to epidemic criminality'
>>
>>But people "that had slept with a member of another race or color" are
>>criminals. Apartheid Law said so.
>>
>>Just how were "Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology" applied in South
>>Africa?
>
>I had already said I didn't know. Neither do you.
I thought he did not know whether I was asking him for the name of his
lodge worshipful master, or the lord Jesus Christ.
>>And: How does the above not support the Apartheid system?
>
>I didn't mean "support" in any possible shape or form. According to your
>reasoning, an argument could be made that everybody in South Africa, or for
>that matter in the world supported apartheid "at some level."
In fact to name this group sci.
>>Also: Are Scientology "ethics" somehow different when applied in
>>different parts of the world?
>
>Aren't all<THWACK>
You cannot tell people they are wrong just because it does not meet
some standard which you hold to be true.
>Morals are different all over the world. People are different.
>Circumstandes are different. What you may be able to do about something is
>different.
>
>According to Scn, ethics is higher than morals. Ethics is "reason",
>"contemplation", "optimum survival" and "the greatest good for the greatest
>number of dynamics".
>
>A person can have the highest ethical standards he can think of but that
>doesn't mean what he does or doesn't do is always going to be in line with
>his standards. That is, unless you think there are perfectly ethical
>people.
>
>Please see also my reply to Mike Gormez.
>
>HTH
C.
Nessie
"Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote
news:9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com...
> I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
> no one touches some posts of mine.
Yeah, what a power you have, sucker!
You are just not that interesting for people to reply. In fact, I'll
rather have any postings from Boobs about the nazis, ear implants,
secret sub cities and her other hallucinations about her father
Hubbard, her grandfather president Eisenhower and her husband
Rathbunny, above your booooooooooring ones. And at least Boobs
is entertaining some times.
Mike Gormez
wrote in <e5af946a148c5a86...@dizum.com>:
>>>>> Do not forget the immortal "Joburg Sec Check" aka "Jo'burg
>>>>> Confessional" that asked the question
>>>>>
>>>>> "32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
>>>>>
>>>>> (Which is at
>>>>> http://freezoneamerica.org/Clearbird/Clearbird2004/sub1/class2/22joburg.htm
>>>>> but not on any other critic websites. This is a pity, since it is a
>>>>> rather powerful indictment.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The question being asked is proof that CoS supported Apartheid.
>>>
>>>It isn't. Sec checks have questions asking for "overts" that you could ask
>>>anybody anywhere. But they also have questions to do with the laws and
>>>customs of the land. This isn't an endorsement of the laws or customs.
>>>
>>>A sec check is supposed to "parallel" the morals and reality of the person
>>>being checked.
>>>
>>>If a white South African slept with a black South African during Apartheid
>>>and thought it was an "overt" or crime, you'd want the question to "read"
>>>so you could follow it up and get the "charge" off.
>>>
>>>During Apartheid, "crimes" like this by any org staff may also have been a
>>>legal issue for the "org" but I don't know enough about that time to say
>>>what that would have meant.
>>
>>What unravels your argument is that the sec check was also delivered in
>>Copenhagen, EU.
>
>Where you wouldn't expect the question to "read" unless the person having
>the sec check was from South Africa or some other place where it was
>against the law.
Pfff..
He was from France and there's no law against mixed racial consented sex
in Europe. Let me iterate, it had nothing to do with "morals and reality
of the person". It was not in South Africa and neither was there a legal
issue for the Copenhagen org to ask such a question.
realpch
>
<snip>
> Funny, and people around here continue to tell that you are nuts.
> Well, also totally absurd. Duplication and confront is hard for some
> around here though. Peregrine continues to run from me, and Gerry
> tries to weazle himself out of the web spun by this uncomfortable
> person, meaning me. I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
> no one touches some posts of mine.
>
> Spacetraveler
My brother-in-law loves to argue. We all listened and participated for
years. But we're getting older and tireder. I'm not sure what he thinks
when he realizes that some people have snuck out of the room as he was
hammering home a point. I like him. I don't believe that he thinks he
scared anyone off. To tell you the truth, I've noticed that he doesn't
actually care all that much about some of the things he argues about.
Well, about a lot of the things he argues about. He just likes to argue.
And often now when he tries to start one up, no one will oblige him.
Say! didn't you notice that Peregrine left the newsgroup? A couple of
times actually.
Peach
Nomen Nescio
>Pfff..
>
>He was from France and there's no law against mixed racial consented sex
>in Europe. Let me iterate, it had nothing to do with "morals and reality
>of the person". It was not in South Africa and neither was there a legal
>issue for the Copenhagen org to ask such a question.
If you want to miss my point, fine. I was just trying to help
Mike Gormez
wrote in <1cf43f4d1f1792f5...@dizum.com>:
>>Pfff..
>>
>>He was from France and there's no law against mixed racial consented sex
>>in Europe. Let me iterate, it had nothing to do with "morals and reality
>>of the person". It was not in South Africa and neither was there a legal
>>issue for the Copenhagen org to ask such a question.
>
>If you want to miss my point, fine. I was just trying to help
I understand your point but taking into acount the racist remarks of
Hubbard, I don't tend to give scientology much slack in that regard.
Btw, did you know there's HCO Information Letter with seperate questions
for christians?
Nomen Nescio
>Pfff..
>
>He was from France and there's no law against mixed racial consented sex
>in Europe. Let me iterate, it had nothing to do with "morals and reality
>of the person". It was not in South Africa and neither was there a legal
>issue for the Copenhagen org to ask such a question.
If you want to miss my point, fine. I was just trying to help.
Lady Chatterly
>
>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Mike Gormez <mgo...@chello.nl> wrote:
>
>
This is just another denier lie?
>There are thousands of "standard" sec check questions and you could have an
>infinite number of tailor made ones. The standard ones try to cover as wide
>an area as possible. The tailor made ones are to find the "overts" the
>standard questions might not get.
>
>Some questions are very broad because you can't think of every single thing
>that somebody could think was an overt. Nor would you want sec checks with
>millions of questions to cover all possibilities.
>
>There are also standard questions you can ask in the middle of a sec check
>and that you always ask at the end to see if "anything was missed",
>"anything not said", "anything you should have told me" or "anything I
>should know", etc.
>
>HTH
C.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Typical Right Wing moron. Can't discuss the topic, so the personal
attack machine is plugged in." -- James Chamblee
Lady Chatterly
--
Lady Chatterly
"Ok it is now official, Hans is a Danish bot." -- FrozenNorth
Nomen Nescio
>"On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:10:03 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com>
>wrote in <1cf43f4d1f1792f5...@dizum.com>:
>
>>>Pfff..
>>>
>>>He was from France and there's no law against mixed racial consented sex
>>>in Europe. Let me iterate, it had nothing to do with "morals and reality
>>>of the person". It was not in South Africa and neither was there a legal
>>>issue for the Copenhagen org to ask such a question.
>>
>>If you want to miss my point, fine. I was just trying to help
>
>I understand your point but taking into acount the racist remarks of
>Hubbard, I don't tend to give scientology much slack in that regard.
Neither do I.
>Btw, did you know there's HCO Information Letter with seperate questions
>for christians?
No but I know there's a sec check for "kiddies".
Sec checks can be a good thing. I know because I've had some. It's some of
the uses CoS puts them to that's totally not ok. Did you read what Chuck
Beaty had to say about how unlikely a coup would be?
Lady Chatterly
I was just trying to help.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Does anyone on this group know who this "Lady Chatterly" is? Either
way, I hope for her sake that she finds something more meaningful to
do with her life than degrading people's posts on the usenet. I'm
sure such a past time can hardly be fulfilling. Maybe she should buy
a dog :D." -- hvatum
Mike O'Connor
spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
> > > > ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > > "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
> > > > train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> > > > standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119,
> > > > 1
> > > > September 1957.
> > >
> > > So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
> > > interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
> > > why would he have said anything like that?
> >
> > Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
>
> Sorry will not do! Some quote does not say mcuh, a sentence can be
> taken out of context.
>
> You only have: "The South African native is probably the one
> impossible person to train in the entire world -- he is probably
> impossible by any human standard."
>
> Where is the remainder of that article?
Do you feel that the additional text will change the meaning of this
passage? How?
If I had it I'd post it, but I don't think I do. I believe it is
extremely important to use accurate scriptural quotes. Since Scientology
itself is so fixated on words and the exact source material, criticism
should liberally use the words from the horse's... mouth, to back up its
points.
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Remember Lisa McPherson
Warrior
>>>>>
>>>>> "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
>>>>> train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
>>>>> standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119,
>>>>> 1 September 1957.
>>>> So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
>>>> interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
>>>> why would he have said anything like that?
>>> Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
>In article <9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>,
> spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
>>
>> Sorry will not do! Some quote does not say mcuh, a sentence can be
>> taken out of context.
>>
>> You only have: "The South African native is probably the one
>> impossible person to train in the entire world -- he is probably
>> impossible by any human standard."
>>
>> Where is the remainder of that article?
In article <mike-CEB9AE.2...@optonline.svc.highwinds-media.com>, Mike
O'Connor says...
>
>
>Do you feel that the additional text will change the meaning of this
>passage? How?
>
>If I had it I'd post it, but I don't think I do. I believe it is extremely
>important to use accurate scriptural quotes. Since Scientology
>itself is so fixated on words and the exact source material, criticism
>should liberally use the words from the horse's... mouth, to back up
>its points.
Look here: http://tinyurl.com/3n39g
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
http://warrior.xenu.ca
Android Cat
> ================================================================
> "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
> I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
> congresswomen black?"
> - David Touretzky
> ================================================================
>
>>>> What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
>
>>> It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron,
>>> as if you would not know that. You find the exact links on
>>> the www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original
>>> Touretzky citations directly out of the IRC logs.
>
>> There are no official Internet logs.
>> No proof, and no response by Faxhor.
>
>
> presented as evidence. David probably doesn't want anyone
> looking at those logs because possibly there are additional
> statements and actions which would be damaging to his reputation.
What court Faxhor?
> Nevertheless, copies of the original logs are automatically
> recorded in supercomputers around the world. I am not the
> only one who mentioned these super computers to USENET.
Thrilling. The NSA might have a copy, but who would ever get a look at it?
If Scientology has moles inside the NSA, I'd be impressed.
> There are others who also have IRC logs in their very own mIRC
> directory or whatever IRC program they use if they have logging
> turned on.
>
> It is always possible an irc bot such as eggdrop (unix version
> is better than windows) could have been present and recording.
> Additionally, you never know who or how many could be inside
> the bot (they can telnet into it) watching and discussing
> amongst themselves.
Read that on a script-kiddy hax0r site, did you? I doubt Scientology has to
use an eggdrop. They could just run an IRC server at one of their ISPs.
(And no doubt Earthlink would still do them favours.) With a compromised
server along the transmission path, forgery would be easy enough.
> Android Cat (Ron Sharp) is in no position to defend David
> Touretzky legally.
Didn't know I had to defend him legally. Are you suing him?
By the way, my name isn't exactly a secret.
http://groups.google.ca/groups?&start=10&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d&selm=siH311w164w%40spocom.UUCP&rnum=13
What's yours?
> His action in defense of Touretzky is
> interesting. The demonstration of forging a statement by me
> does not prove his point, but rather demonstrates his
> dishonesty.
Only in your Bizarro World universe Faxhor.
> Below, I have restored the original "attachment" to my post
> since Ron Sharp snipped them in his reply.
Snipped again because everyone has access to your original post, stupid. Or
you could just post a URL.
You still haven't answered my question: Do you have permission from the
University of Hawaii to use their computers?
Spacetraveler
Thank you for sharing with us your worries, and acknowledging my
point.... Much appreciated!
Off course you prefer those "ear implants' and so on. It is easier to
get people being sceptical about them. It is not done that easy with
my posts though...
Fact is that people refust to address exact issues, they ridicule or
run....wanna get out of this place.....
Spacetraveler
Mike Gormez
wrote in <9638de107c2a6aee...@dizum.com>:
>>I understand your point but taking into acount the racist remarks of
>>Hubbard, I don't tend to give scientology much slack in that regard.
>
>Neither do I.
Fair enough.
>>Btw, did you know there's HCO Information Letter with seperate questions
>>for christians?
>
>No but I know there's a sec check for "kiddies".
I know that one. Really disgusting. This is a different thing. I had
made an error in remembering btw, it was not for christians but scieno's
and non-scieno's and it was posted with one of the Scamizdat archives.
It's a HCO Information Letter of April-11-1962,
"DYNAMIC PROCESSING CHECKS."
The header reads,
===
The following letter and Dynamic Processing Checks were
received from Jan Halpern, International Council Member. They
are for use as zero questions.
"Dear Ron,
You mentioned in D.C. that some dynamic processing checks
would be useful. Here are some. They're more of a nucleus
than a really full set of questions. I suspect there are gaps
large enough to drive tanks through which are not obvious to
me at this point. So, it would be nice if they were added to
by somebody whose dynamic blind spots and mish-mash are
different from mine!
Love,
Jan."
<snip>
Eighth Dynamic (For non-Scientologists)
Imfinity or God Dynamic
1 Have you ever doubted the truth of your religion?
2 Have you ever polluted a holy place? A sacred object?
.....
13 Have you ever changed your religion?
14 Have you ever committed a sin?
Eighth Dynamic (for Scientologists)
15 Have you ever convinced others that some things are unknowable?
16 Have you ever convinced another that there were effects he
couldn't create?
......
21 Have you ever persuaded another that he never created anything?
22 Have you ever made another irresponsilble?
LRH:jw Issued by: PHILIP D. QUIRINO
Copyright (c) 1962 Actlng HOD Tech, Sec. WW
by L Ron Hubbard for L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
====
>Sec checks can be a good thing. I know because I've had some. It's some of
>the uses CoS puts them to that's totally not ok. Did you read what Chuck
>Beaty had to say about how unlikely a coup would be?
No, I have a mountain to read and not so much time. My opinion is that
sec checks are a breach of privacy of the person being subjected to it.
That is not just mine opinion. And taking notes of it amounts to criminal
behavior. Already in the early 80s did a Dutch parliament commission
write in their report that the use of lie detectors in general is at odds
with the right of citizens to be subjected to intrusion of his mental
integrity.
Here's the Dutch text:
Het gebruik van leugendetectors in het algemeen staat volgens ons op
gespannen voet met het recht van de burger gevrijwaard te worden van
inbreuken op zijn geestelijke integriteit. Het vormt uit zijn aard een
directe aantasting van de kern van de persoonlijke levenssfeer en zal
daarom op ethische gronden niet zonder meer aanvaard mogen worden. Zou het
gebruik van een leugendetector bij de vervulling van enigerlei
overheidstaak worden overwogen, dan zal ongetwijfeld niet kunnen worden
ontkomen aan een wettelijke voorziening, waarin ten minste het
uitzonderlijke karakter van de handeling tot uiting komt en een strakke
regiementering wordt gegeven. Zou zich nochtans een maatschappelijke
ontwikkeling aftekenen, zoals waarneembaar in de Verenigde Staten, waarin
het gebruik van de leugendetector in het maatschappelijk verkeer in het
algemeen ingang vindt, dan lijkt het ons alleszins het overwegen waard om
de norm van artikel 10 van de Grondwet in dit opzicht te expliciteren in
wettelijke regels. Ook bij toepassing van soortgelijke instrumenten in de
psychotherapeutische setting mag men veronderstellen dat medisch-ethische
opvattingen zorgvuldigheidsgrenzen stellen. Het zal na deze regels geen
betoog behoeven dat wij de aanwending van de E-meter in de
Scientology-praktijk op ethische gronden dubieus achten.
-- Uit: Witteveen, Tobias Overheid en nieuwe religieuze bewegingen /
Tobias Andreas Maria Witteveen. - s' Gravenhage: Staatsuitgeverij, 1984. -
VII, 320 p., ; 28 cm
Tweede Kamer, vergaderjaar 1983-1984, 16635, nr. 4. - Proefschrift
Groningen. - Met Lit Opg. en samenvattingen in het Engels. ISBN
90-12-04614-9
Rapport van de subcommissie sekten van de vaste Tweede Kamer Commissie
voor de volksgezondheid. p. 120-160
Lady Chatterly
>
>"Nessie" <nes...@ReMoVeThiSwhyaretheydead.net> wrote in message news:<41aa6023$1...@news2.lightlink.com>...
>> "Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> news:9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com...
>> > I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
>> > no one touches some posts of mine.
>>
>> Yeah, what a power you have, sucker!
>> You are just not that interesting for people to reply. In fact, I'll
>> rather have any postings from Boobs about the nazis, ear implants,
>> secret sub cities and her other hallucinations about her father
>> Hubbard, her grandfather president Eisenhower and her husband
>> Rathbunny, above your booooooooooring ones. And at least Boobs
>> is entertaining some times.
>
You are welcome. For sharing with us their worries.
>Off course you prefer those "ear implants' and so on. It is easier to
>get people being sceptical about them. It is not done that easy with
>my posts though...
We could have a plan to provide free energy to everyone.
--
Lady Chatterly
"LOL, Yiing was bested by Lady Chatterly, then ran around imitating
her. Never could get it quite right either." -- Iceman
Faxhor
<snip>
Google "hubbard + racist" and have a nice read!
"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
first wife Polly Grubb.
Faxhor
Praxis
Those were the two basic choices. All else is a variation of the
"treat" or "not treat" fundamentals. That's why it was a dilemma.
For example:
A Lieutenant was sent back from the war zone in Angola because he "had
seen a vision of Jesus" coming down through the top of his tent.
He was sent home. His days in the army were over. Why?
1. From a secular/humanist point of view he was obviously insane
because he was hallucinating and, therefore, declared unfit for duty.
2. From a spiritual point of view he was sane and one had to honor his
spiritual experience. But he was still declared unfit for duty because
one could not have a Platoon leader taking orders from God (Thereby
jumping the chain of military command.)
Either way, he was declared unfit for duty - according to the above
logic presented to the army by the psychologists - after his final
psychological assessment.
The psychologists who made the assessment were all conscripts (i.e. go
to the army or sit in jail for 3 years.). They did not want to go to
jail. But neither did they want to empower the South African army.
Their compromise was to work from within the belly of the beast. So
their choice of action was a complex one. But their fundamental
dilemma still boiled down to 2 basic choices.
Their alternative was return the Lieutenant back to a "functional"
status and send him back into combat.
You might call it "ethics for dummies". Others might say that they
were focussed on what was really important.
> >i.e. the definition of "Human Rights" is a higher-order system of
> >ethics that should take primacy over any local law or custom.
> >
> >If CoS asks the question
> >"32. Have you ever slept with a member of another race or color?"
> >then it, too, at some level, recognizes the "crime" as a crime since
> >it recognizes the ethics of the legal system that defined it as a
> >crime.
>
> "At some level" doesn't say much.
It says more. But you choose not to investigate, cogitate and
extrapolate further.
> >It is not a value-neutral question.
> >
> >And, if someone answered the question truthfully - and had actually
> >slept with a member of another race or color, or was currently
> >sleeping with a member of another race or color- then they would,
> >under the Apartheid system, be a criminal under the terms of The
> >Immorality Act.
>
> It's called a "security" check for a reason. You can't ignore the laws of
> the land if you're checking someone to see if he's a security risk to your
> organization.
What you are implying is that the any organisation in Nazi Germany
should conduct its affairs in accordance with Nazi Law. Take your
time. Think about it.
> >Does CoS accept criminals as members? Theoretically, no. The aims of
> >CoS are purported to be:
>
> Ethics is more than theory. Did they accept them or not? You don't know.
I was being polite. I will reserve my opinion regarding whether or not
CoS hires criminals or whether they currently have any criminals
within their ranks.
But if you want to investigate this further, you can search Google for
"scientology criminals".
Nevertheless, this is a red-herring. The real question is what CoS did
to stay complient with Apartheid Law and its perverse definition of
"criminality"?
> >"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war,
> >where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and
> >where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of
> >Scientology." - L. Ron Hubbard
> >
> >... and one cannot have criminals forwarding the global agenda of a
> >world "without criminals". I presume.
> >
> >It follows that anyone in South Africa - for the duration of the
> >Apartheid system of governance - that had slept with a member of
> >another race or color could not be defined as a "Scientologist".
> >
> >Also, it says at
> >http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/professional-dozens-fi
> >elds/humanitarian/criminal-reform/
> >
> >'"morality" is no longer another buzzword for political aspirants and
> >talk-radio hosts. Joined with Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology, it
> >provides the solution to epidemic criminality'
> >
> >But people "that had slept with a member of another race or color" are
> >criminals. Apartheid Law said so.
> >
> >Just how were "Mr. Hubbard's ethics technology" applied in South
> >Africa?
>
> I had already said I didn't know. Neither do you.
The onus was not on you to answer the question. Relax.
> >And: How does the above not support the Apartheid system?
>
> I didn't mean "support" in any possible shape or form. According to your
> reasoning, an argument could be made that everybody in South Africa, or for
> that matter in the world supported apartheid "at some level."
Yes, you are probably guilty of supporting Human Rights abuse. What
can I say?
If you bought Coca Cola anywhere in the world during the Apartheid
era, you supported Apartheid: Because sanctions were called for. Pepsi
left. Coca Cola stayed.
Apartheid lasted between 1948 and 1990. You do the math.
> >Also: Are Scientology "ethics" somehow different when applied in
> >different parts of the world?
>
> Aren't all ethics somehow different when applied in different parts of the
> world?
No, that would assume that the ethical code of conduct that guides an
American soldier on American soil somehow dissapears at Abu Gharib
Prison.
>
> Morals are different all over the world. People are different.
That sounds suspiciously like a justification for supporting the
Immorality Act under Apartheid.
> Circumstandes are different. What you may be able to do about something is
> different.
>
> According to Scn, ethics is higher than morals. Ethics is "reason",
> "contemplation", "optimum survival" and "the greatest good for the greatest
> number of dynamics".
>
> A person can have the highest ethical standards he can think of but that
> doesn't mean what he does or doesn't do is always going to be in line with
> his standards. That is, unless you think there are perfectly ethical
> people.
Nevertheless, one has to to try. One cannot be silent in the face of
Human Rights abuses.
Barbara Schwarz
> Faxhor wrote:
> > ================================================================
> > "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
> > I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
> > congresswomen black?"
> > - David Touretzky
> > ================================================================
> >
> > "Android Cat" wrote:
> >>>> What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
> >
> > Barbara Schwarz wrote:
> >>> It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron,
> >>> as if you would not know that. You find the exact links on
> >>> the www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original
> >>> Touretzky citations directly out of the IRC logs.
> >
> > "Android Cat" wrote:
> >> There are no official Internet logs.
> << denial and kooky conspiracy theory snipped >>
> >> No proof, and no response by Faxhor.
> >
> >
> > In court, those logs (copies from IRC servers & IRCops) can be
> > presented as evidence. David probably doesn't want anyone
> > looking at those logs because possibly there are additional
> > statements and actions which would be damaging to his reputation.
>
> What court Faxhor?
Any court, artificial Ron.
>
> > Nevertheless, copies of the original logs are automatically
> > recorded in supercomputers around the world. I am not the
> > only one who mentioned these super computers to USENET.
>
> Thrilling. The NSA might have a copy, but who would ever get a look at it?
> If Scientology has moles inside the NSA, I'd be impressed.
Scientology has no moles in the NSA. The SEGNPMSS is not Scientology.
>
> > There are others who also have IRC logs in their very own mIRC
> > directory or whatever IRC program they use if they have logging
> > turned on.
> >
> > It is always possible an irc bot such as eggdrop (unix version
> > is better than windows) could have been present and recording.
> > Additionally, you never know who or how many could be inside
> > the bot (they can telnet into it) watching and discussing
> > amongst themselves.
>
> Read that on a script-kiddy hax0r site, did you? I doubt Scientology has to
> use an eggdrop. They could just run an IRC server at one of their ISPs.
> (And no doubt Earthlink would still do them favours.) With a compromised
> server along the transmission path, forgery would be easy enough.
>
> > Android Cat (Ron Sharp) is in no position to defend David
> > Touretzky legally.
>
> Didn't know I had to defend him legally. Are you suing him?
Don't push the envelope, Canadian Ron.
>
> By the way, my name isn't exactly a secret.
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?&start=10&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d&selm=siH311w164w%40spocom.UUCP&rnum=13
> What's yours?
>
> > His action in defense of Touretzky is
> > interesting. The demonstration of forging a statement by me
> > does not prove his point, but rather demonstrates his
> > dishonesty.
>
> Only in your Bizarro World universe Faxhor.
>
> > Below, I have restored the original "attachment" to my post
> > since Ron Sharp snipped them in his reply.
>
> Snipped again because everyone has access to your original post, stupid. Or
> you could just post a URL.
>
> You still haven't answered my question: Do you have permission from the
> University of Hawaii to use their computers?
Do you fear Faxhor's opinions so much that you try to kick him off his
computer, artificial kitten?
Anyway, as to Dave Touretzky, who can't defend himself apparently, see
below the references from the chat logs in which Touretzky made the
racial and other remarks.
Barbara Schwarz
DAVID TOURETZKY
David Touretzky's Discrimination
David Touretzky is employed by Carnegie Mellon University as a
research scientist. In addition to his participation in numerous other
hate activities, Touretzky spends an inordinate amount of time
engaging in religious and racial discrimination as part of his
on-going hate activities on the Internet. Below are quotes culled from
hundreds of hours of Touretzky's chat room writings (the culling is
still ongoing).
It appears that David Touretzky hides behind, and abuses, the policy
on academic freedom at Carnegie Mellon University (CMU). He seems to
believe that his position entitles him to unrestrained discrimination
against African Americans, and other ethnic groups, in addition to the
other derogatory information he spreads via his CMU website.
As you will see from the quotes beneath, David Touretzky is not a
person who makes the occasional discriminatory remark out of
ignorance. Quite the contrary, he spends several hours a day on a hate
channel engaged in a dedicated attack on religions and races while "at
work". The number of hours that Touretzky has dedicated to this
pursuit exceeds 300 hours in less than a year (more hours are being
calculated for the remaining years). We presume that Touretzky was
paid full salary while he spent those 300 hours spreading hate on the
internet, a fact that we assume should be of concern to his employers
at CMU as well as those government and private institutions that fund
Touretzky's considerable research grants.
Religious Freedom Watch does not tolerate racial discrimination and
the type of hate speech propagated by David Touretzky. We respect
Carnegie Mellon University and it is our opinion that Touretzky's
action is damaging CMU's reputation. We invite you to read the
statements Touretzky has made and decide for yourself whether or not
Touretzky should be allowed to continue his activities at the expense
of the taxpayer, and whether or not he should be considered a social
"expert" of any kind.
Technical Information:
Touretzky's postings to Usenet show that the organization he is
posting from is Carnegie Mellon University.
The chat logs that have been made available to Religious Freedom Watch
show that most of the time Touretzky logs into the chat room from
CMU.EDU.
Here is some of the technical information, directly from the chat
logs:
d...@370af11b.2486bca.CS.CMU.EDU
d...@307615a5.1a358005.CS.CMU.EDU
d...@Hidden-SP-1728.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-679.BOLTZ.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_9333.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP_22147.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
d...@Hidden-SP-22245.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_22358.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_22326.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_22211.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_22456.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-22309.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-22049.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-22196.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-22260.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-22294.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-3480.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP_31739.BOLTZ.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP_39344.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP_5338.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
d...@Hidden-SP-5339.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP-5346.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_5366.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP_5382.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
d...@Hidden-SP.5410.CMU.EDU
d...@Hidden-SP-5418.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_5482.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden_SP_5554.NET.CS.CMU.EDU
dst@Hidden-SP_5618.CMU.EDU
DST = David Stuart Touretzky.
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AFRICAN AMERICANS:
Part I
David Touretzky: "There should be a video game where you can beat
Rodney King."
Part II
David Touretzky: "Don't quote that scumbag Jesse Jackson, Tory, or
I'll puke in your lap."
Part III
David Touretzky: "I think we need a project to kick Oprah's ass."
Part IV
Rob Clark: "Senator Diane Watson, California State Senate."
David Touretzky: "Oh, she's a *state* senator. Did she get elected to
congress after that statement was made? So now she's their whore in
Washington?"
Rob Clark: "dst, no, now she's a congresscritter."
David Touretzky: "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and
she's black. I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
Part V
David Touretzky: "Washington DC is more disgusting than Harlem."
[Name Deleted]: "How and why is Harlem disgusting."
David Touretzky: "Disgusting as in rates of illegitimacy, drug abuse,
domestic abuse, shootings, prostitution, welfare culture. I think
Harlem has gotten better the last few years, but DC has not. White men
don't walk in Harlem at night."
[Name Deleted]: "Yes they do it is not and never was 'disgusting'.
What's disgusting is you, dst, for even calling it 'disgusting'. Some
of the greatest art and science in this country came from Harlem."
David Touretzky: "I know that Harlem was once a major cultural
center."
[[Name Deleted]: "I resent you saying Harlem is 'disgusting' dst and
you should be ashamed. Not was once still is, always was. I just think
it's wrong."
David Touretzky: "The great Harlem theaters and clubs have closed
although the Apollo is still around."
[Name Deleted]: "Why do you say Harlem is 'disgusting'."
David Touretzky: "For the same reason DC is disgusting."
[Name Deleted]: "And that is???"
David Touretzky: "If you wanna buy crack cocaine, go to Harlem or DC,
not Wall Street."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, cut to the quick here you [are] what's
disgusting?"
David Touretzky: "Doesn't DC has the highest murder rate in the
country? Or is it only second highest now?"
[Name Deleted]: "These are like the little racist pop-ups you see on
Neo nazi channels."
David Touretzky: "[name deleted] objects to my stating opinions, and
even more to my citing statistics."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, do the good one about how the niggers are
killing everyone. You have all those in pop-ups when you're on those
other channels, don't you? You know, the neo-nazi ones the white
supremacists ones you go on, dst, the niggers are just a problem."
David Touretzky: "Although, [name deleted], your remark about
'niggers' reminds me of an incident I'd been meaning to tell you
about. This happened quite a few years ago now."
[Name Deleted]: "Harlem is not disgusting."
David Touretzky: "Back before we were all posting on Usenet, we had a
local bulletin board system here at CMU. And one of those boards was
dedicated to no-holds-barred discussion."
[Name Deleted]: "That's racist dribble and frankly, I won't continue."
David Touretzky: "I asked on this board why we had no term that was
the black equivalent of 'white trash'. Because, you know, the N-word
was totally unsuitable. We needed some other term. A term that would
show that the speaker drew a deliberate distinction between people of
a certain skin color who behaved decently (as in 'decent white folk')
and those who behave badly (as in 'white trash')."
Rob Clark: "I have an equivalent as offensive as n-word term for black
trash. 'clarence thomas'."
David Touretzky: "So why don't we have equivalent terms for blacks?"
[Name Deleted]: "We do, dst."
David Touretzky: "And what would those terms be?"
[Name Deleted]: "You just don't know them. Human beings. It's really
deep in there, dst, maybe one day you'll get over it."
David Touretzky: "Living in trailers is a white thing.
Drive-by-shootings are a black thing etc. Anyway, here's the
interesting part of my story. A colleague of mine, from Texas, took
grave offense at my inquiry. He said that the reason people say 'WHITE
trash' is to distinguish it from ordinary trash, which is ASSUMED to
be black. So even "white trash" is an anti-black term. Personally, I
think we need a term for 'black trash' so that people can express
disapproval of a subculture without appearing to denounce an entire
ethnic group. I also think 'white trash' is a useful and appropriate
term."
Part VI
David Touretzky: "... we have a high infant mortality rate for a
developed country, but it's not because middle class people's babies
are dying. It's because of crack whores giving birth to high risk
premies."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, why do you use language like that?"
David Touretzky: "I'm just telling the truth."
[Name Deleted]: "the truth you are telling is that, despite all your
great intelligence and capacity and humor, you are, so it seems, under
it all and hateful racist."
David Touretzky: "maybe [you] know something about crack whores that I
don't. ... but if you want to talk about race.... infant mortality in
the US is much higher for blacks than for whites. I have no idea what
the racial breakdown of crack whores is."
[Name Deleted]: "there are no "crack babies" first of all that term is
a misnomer and medically incorrect."
David Touretzky: "I'm sure that blacks are over-represented in that
profession, but in terms of absolute numbers, I don't know."
[Name Deleted]: "so, it's about class then."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, you really take yourself down when you use
language like that. classism IS a form of racism."
David Touretzky: "it's your right to not like my language."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, it's not that I don't like it. It's what it says
about you that I find, well, very disappointing. I guess I'd expect
more from you."
David Touretzky: "I'm not creepy. I'm just impatient with people who
run down this country."
[Name Deleted]: "... but using language like that is inflammatory it
invites rebuke demands it."
David Touretzky: "you wanna defend crack whores?"
[Name Deleted]: "yup."
David Touretzky: "Go ahead. I'm listening."
[Name Deleted]: "they are saints. first, they are sex workers women
who are living, trying to make a way in a brutal world they are people
responding to conditions that are totally out of their control
sometimes and come from long stading problems, often going back to
home life lack there of many are victims of abuse they are all human
beings and they find themselves in this place and someone introduces
them to the idea of being a prostitute. So this name calling of "crack
whores" is first and foremost a cry of pain, sort of like road rage
and this langue of "crack whores, crack babies (which don't exist),
welfare queens" it's not just classist, but it's also racist one is
contained in the other."
David Touretzky: "Why do you say crck babies don't exist?"
[Name Deleted]: "it's my understanding that more recent research
disproves the original ideas of what was a "crack baby."
David Touretzky: "disproves it how? The stats on premature birth are
pretty clear."
[Name Deleted]: "the addictive properties of the drug are not passed
along from Mother to Child as they were thought when the original term
was put forward. it's not premature so "crack baby" is not a valid
term."
David Touretzky: "a baby who is born not-premature or underweight, and
not addicted to any drug, would not result in high medical costs."
David Touretzky: "but there are babies who run up $500,000 in hospital
costs because of their medical problems, which they wouldn't have if
their mother wasn't a crack whore."
[Name Deleted]: "it's a racist term. get it f***ing straight crack
babies and crack whores is racist crap bullshit and I will rebuke that
kind of racist hate speech as long as I live."
David Touretzky: "you should listen to kady [O'Malley]. I'm not
racist, I'm classist. And they're NOT equivalent."
[Name Deleted]: "YES bullshit, dst that is such crap since Class is
based on race don't run that specious line, dst. come to terms with
your own hate and racist heart."
David Touretzky: "that URL you posted was an article from 1992. And
it's just an AP piece, not a serious scientific article."
[Name Deleted]: "so what? read the lasttest info for youself. that's
HOW long that term went out of style -- dst, you're still in bell
bottoms, highwaters, that's yesterdays racist stuff."
David Touretzky: "well for one thing, the article looks only at babies
who survive long enough to make it out of the hospital."
[Name Deleted]: "the dead ones dont' matter, do they."
David Touretzky: "if they die after spending a month in NICU, they
cost hundreds of thousands."
[Name Deleted]: "under it all is the economic, on that agree, but
keeping it that way involves, indisputably, racist practices like it
or not, not just racist, but always racist and that dst's speech is
both classist, which is seems strnagly proud of, and racists."
David Touretzky: "Larry Elder says blacks are more racist than whites.
... Well yelling "racist" doesn't advance your argument."
[Name Deleted]: "ok, so then were shall I start to just show you how
creapy and hatful you are. Hateful as in "crack whores who are running
everything."
David Touretzky: "I mean, who cares if a crack whore's kid is retarded
because of alocohol abuse instead of cocaine abuse? The kid is still
fucked. ... there are more whites than blacks on welfare in this
country."
[Name Deleted]: "oh so what, dst. drop it ok."
David Touretzky: "I don't think you're calling me a hateful racist
because of some minor detail."
[Name Deleted]: "dst, that you do not know shows only the depths of
your ignorance and need to think really deeply about this."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE SALVATION ARMY:
"... the Salvation Army ... buncha fuckheads."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST HISPANICS:
"Man, Hispanics are fucked up, which is why they're still working
class. Dipshits."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST CHINESE:
"It would be cheaper to just buy your replacement organs from executed
Chinese."
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MUSLIMS:
David Touretzky knows no boundaries when it comes to religious
discrimination, bigotry and hatred. Touretzky's following comments
about Muslims say it all:
Chris Owen: "Saddam is seen as the oppressor of the Iraqi people, but
the us is seen as the oppressor of all Muslims."
David Touretzky: "fuck the muslims."
...
David Touretzky: "check out the bloody muslims .. jeez what loons."
CONCERNING ABORTION & INFANTICIDE:
David Touretzky: "Maybe they'll ban partial birth abortion though. Not
that I think they should. Hell, I'm for post-partum abortion!
Retro-active abortion! Up until, say, the age of six months."
[ Page 1 ] [ Page 2 ] [ Page 3 ] [ Page 4 ] [ Page 5 ] [ Page 6 ] [
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For the truth about religion:
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Scientology, What is Scientology?, Scientology Theology General
Barbara Schwarz
Nessie is Lise, a wanna be private investigator from the Netherlands.
She once posted that she stalked me right to my home in Salt Lake
City. Creepy people post here!
She makes everybody ridiculous who has not her opinions without
getting that she is the one who is unprofessional and ridiculous.
She runs around with a stuffed animal on her arm where ever she goes
and demands people she meets to be photographed with that stuffed
animal. She is already pasted middle age, in case of you wanting to
know if she is a teenager. No, she isn't. I think she is mentally
retarded.
As to mindcontrol, it is a psychiatric invention, and yes, it exists.
You might find that website here interesting, Spacetraveller:
www.datafilter.com/mc/
It is everything but a nutty website, and that is why Nessie/Lisa does
of course not read it. And if she would read it, I doubt that her IQ
would last to understand it.
Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
I think I have figured out why, Spacetraveller. They are nuts and
don't want to be alone in their nuttiness. That is why they claim we
are too. :)
> Well, also totally absurd. Duplication and confront is hard for some
> around here though. Peregrine continues to run from me, and Gerry
> tries to weazle himself out of the web spun by this uncomfortable
> person, meaning me. I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
> no one touches some posts of mine.
>
> Spacetraveler
That is right. As soon they have no arguments left, many ARS posters
just run away and start a new threat with new rumours and lies and
hope that other people fall for it.
Barbara Schwarz
Lady Chatterly
>
>On 28 Nov 2004, fax...@hotmail.com (Faxhor) wrote:
>
><snip>
If any there were any proof of your dualistic theory.
>Google "hubbard racist" and have a nice read!
>
>"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
>the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
>Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
L.
>"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
>a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to
>first wife Polly Grubb.
L ron hubbard in a letter to first wife polly grubb.
--
Lady Chatterly
"!" To quote Lady Chatterly, the "flaming paranoid schizophrenic"." --
Peter Hood
Spacetraveler
> "On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 05:00:11 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com>
> wrote in <9638de107c2a6aee...@dizum.com>:
>
> >>I understand your point but taking into acount the racist remarks of
> >>Hubbard, I don't tend to give scientology much slack in that regard.
> >
> >Neither do I.
>
> Fair enough.
>
> >>Btw, did you know there's HCO Information Letter with seperate questions
> >>for christians?
> >
> >No but I know there's a sec check for "kiddies".
>
> I know that one. Really disgusting.
So, and what is so disgusting about it?
Spacetraveler
Android Cat
> "Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<pFzqd.132$hf1...@fe51.usenetserver.com>...
>> Faxhor wrote:
>> You still haven't answered my question: Do you have permission from
>> the University of Hawaii to use their computers?
>
> Do you fear Faxhor's opinions so much that you try to kick him off his
> computer, artificial kitten?
If he doesn't have permission from the university, then it's not his
computer, is it? In fact, using it without permission would probably be
breaking a law or two.
Faxhor
Note: Discussion with "Android Cat" at ending of post.
================================================================
Read what CMU Professor David Touretzky says about muslims,
african americans, hispanics, chinese and others.
I wouldn't be suprised one bit if David Touretzky is
officially a member of some anti-semist neo-nazi group.
================================================================
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
- David Touretzky
================================================================
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky0.html
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AFRICAN AMERICANS:
Part I
David Touretzky: "There should be a video game where you can beat
Rodney King."
Part II
David Touretzky: "Don't quote that scumbag Jesse Jackson, Tory, or
I'll puke in your lap."
Part III
David Touretzky: "I think we need a project to kick Oprah's ass."
Part IV
Rob Clark: "Senator Diane Watson, California State Senate."
David Touretzky: "Oh, she's a *state* senator. Did she get elected to
congress after that statement was made? So now she's their whore in
Washington?"
Rob Clark: "dst, no, now she's a congresscritter."
David Touretzky: "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and
she's black. I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
Part V
[Name Deleted]: "yup."
...
================================================================
"Android Cat" wrote:
>>>>> What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
Barbara Schwarz wrote:
>>>> It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron,
>>>> as if you would not know that. You find the exact links on
>>>> the www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original
>>>> Touretzky citations directly out of the IRC logs.
"Android Cat" wrote:
>>> There are no official Internet logs.
<< denial and kooky conspiracy theory snipped >>
>>> No proof, and no response by Faxhor.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> In court, those logs (copies from IRC servers & IRCops) can be
>> presented as evidence. David probably doesn't want anyone
>> looking at those logs because possibly there are additional
>> statements and actions which would be damaging to his reputation.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> What court Faxhor?
Ron Sharp, you really ought to change your name to Ron Dull.
What court? Any court that David Touretzky chooses in his
case against Religious Freedom Watch. Why don't you ask
David Touretzky why he hasn't pursued a case against Religious
Freedom Watch in a court of law.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Nevertheless, copies of the original logs are automatically
>> recorded in supercomputers around the world. I am not the
>> only one who mentioned these super computers to USENET.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> Thrilling. The NSA might have a copy, but who would ever get
> a look at it? If Scientology has moles inside the NSA, I'd be
> impressed.
Your point? You really should change your last name to Dull.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> There are others who also have IRC logs in their very own mIRC
>> directory or whatever IRC program they use if they have logging
>> turned on.
>>
>> It is always possible an irc bot such as eggdrop (unix version
>> is better than windows) could have been present and recording.
>> Additionally, you never know who or how many could be inside
>> the bot (they can telnet into it) watching and discussing
>> amongst themselves.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> Read that on a script-kiddy hax0r site, did you?
Is this kooky method of yours the foundation for your arguments?
No wonder the ARS Extremists love you, you're so easily duped.
Anyhow I had a unix box on my desk for years, before the internet
was even popular. I also used to "hang-out" in IRC with Robey,
the original author of eggdrop.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> I doubt Scientology has to use an eggdrop.
I can agree with you on that. But you still are missing the
point. So I'll ask you again, Duped Defender of Touretzky,
why hasn't Touretzky pursued a case against Religious
Freedom Watch in a court of law.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> They could just run an IRC server at one of their ISPs.
> (And no doubt Earthlink would still do them favours.)
Could, your argument is headed towards a kooky conspiracy
theory, however.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> With a compromised server along the transmission path,
> forgery would be easy enough.
Scientologists aren't into forgery. And if one of them is,
he is not a Scientologist but an infiltrator, like Gerry
Armstrong was.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Android Cat (Ron Sharp) is in no position to defend David
>> Touretzky legally.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> Didn't know I had to defend him legally.
Still, you are in no position to defend him, legally or
illegally. :) Here you are defending him USENETally.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> Are you suing him?
Why isn't David Touretzky suing Religious Freedom Watch?
That would be a more correct question. At least a legal
notice with a copy posted to ARS? I don't see anything.
David is charged with statements such as:
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?" - David Touretzky
Why are you defending him in usenet when you don't even know
anything about it all. You don't even know about Scientology
but you pretend you do with false statistics and false reports.
You are very similar to Phil Scott. Dishonest.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> By the way, my name isn't exactly a secret.
<irrelevant reference snipped>
I never said your identity was a secret. I figured it out
months ago without your help, why would I even want your
assistance today?
"Android Cat" wrote:
> What's yours?
Mine isn't important, see the current thread about identities.
What is important is the content of my posts. I reference
all the claims I make about others, so if you have a problem
then I suggest you look up the source. I am not the source
of this information.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> His action in defense of Touretzky is interesting. The
>> demonstration of forging a statement by me does not prove
>> his point, but rather demonstrates his dishonesty.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> Only in your Bizarro World universe Faxhor.
Your opinionated troll means nothing alongside referenced
information.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Below, I have restored the original "attachment" to my post
> > since Ron Sharp snipped them in his reply.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> Snipped again because everyone has access to your original post,
> stupid. Or you could just post a URL.
LOL. Unsnipped and presented at front of posting. Ron Sharp
don't enforce your censorship "standards" on me. I post how
I want in this free country. I don't misinform, unlike those
you defend such as David Touretzky. If you have a problem with
what I have to say then stop reading my posts.
"Android Cat" wrote:
> You still haven't answered my question: Do you have permission
> from the University of Hawaii to use their computers?
What a Dull question.
By the way, did you know that even you are allowed to use these
computers?
================================================================
"...I can have the very same bomb-making info
on MY web site..." - David Touretzky
================================================================
"Touretzky is an anarchist who fights any effort to protect
intellectual property rights on the Internet - except where
his own copyrighted materials are involved. He has railed
against the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), has
defied efforts to protect anti-piracy encryption software
for DVDs, and intentionally posted materials on his own
websites held to be unlawfully posted elsewhere. However,
research on the web shows that Touretzky has filed patents
to protect his own intellectual property, and has been quick
to use the DMCA to his advantage to defend against possible
infringements of his own copyrighted materials."
- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky00.html
================================================================
"Terrorism is in fashion these days."
- David Touretzky
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/blog01/archives/
================================================================
Faxhor
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?" - David Touretzky
================================================================
"Android Cat" wrote:
> > What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
> It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron, as if
> you would not know that. You find the exact links on the
> www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original Touretzky
> citations directly out of the IRC logs.
Barbara, I saw that you noticed Android Cat trying to support
his argument by forging a statement by me.
"Android Cat" is the only one here defending Touretzky, but if
he was in a court of law attempting such a maneuver, any judge
would sustain an objection. And I could start a new and separate
case against him personally.
And here he is attacking Scientology as if he knows what he's
doing.
Android Cat
>
> "Android Cat" is the only one here defending Touretzky, but if
> he was in a court of law attempting such a maneuver, any judge
> would sustain an objection. And I could start a new and separate
> case against him personally.
As if you would ever crawl out from under your rock.
> And here he is attacking Scientology as if he knows what he's
> doing.
Here, there...
--
Ron of that ilk.
____
.--`` _``--. Please direct me
/`- __- -\ \ \\`'. to an Org. I'm Faxhor
// /` `\ \ \\ \ \ and I wet myself.
/ /.` `. \ \ _\'.
.-. |// ,,, `._.-` `'.-.
/ \/ .'` `'. .'` `'. \ / \
/` /=. |/ .--. \/ .--. \ _ `\
/` \ | / ` || / ` | /-& `\
`\ .'-: | : || | : -'. /`
`\ | '\ '/ \\ ..` | /`
`\ \ (_ `--'` ~~ `'--` _) / /`
(_) `--..________..--` (_)
`-.___ `-==-` ___.-`
/; `-.____.-` `\
/; # \
/: ^ _.-$ \
|# |=====----` _.|# |
| _|&====----'` |# |
|_.` |##? | `._|
| |## | |
\_.-``.? .``-._/
| /\ \ / /\ |
\ \ `. ____ |` / /
\_\ _ /_/
| ` ^ |
|# / \
|# |# `.
|# |# |
.` |# |
|? \% \
|# | : --- |
|_________| | \
/ \ / )(_(_( \
/ ) _) _/(__\
Android Cat
> ================================================================
> Note: Discussion with "Android Cat" at ending of post.
> ================================================================
Good idea about the quotes "Faxhor".
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> I doubt Scientology has to use an eggdrop.
>
> I can agree with you on that. But you still are missing the
> point. So I'll ask you again, Duped Defender of Touretzky,
> why hasn't Touretzky pursued a case against Religious
> Freedom Watch in a court of law.
religiousfreedomwatch.org = parishioners.org = Scientology Parishioners
Committee, which is a sock-puppet front for the Cthurch of Scientology.
Climbing into court with Scientology is like mud-wrestling a rabid pig.
Scientology would love to drag out a case for many years, wasting time and
money, and distracting Dr. Touretzky from helping kick Scientology's butt
like recently in California. In the end, if they lost, they would claim
that the SPC was penniless. The site would close down and another one would
pop up, again.
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> They could just run an IRC server at one of their ISPs.
>> (And no doubt Earthlink would still do them favours.)
>
> Could, your argument is headed towards a kooky conspiracy
> theory, however.
Gosh, are you saying that Earthlink wasn't initially run using Hubbard
Management? Did they declare Sky Dayton?
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> With a compromised server along the transmission path,
>> forgery would be easy enough.
>
> Scientologists aren't into forgery. And if one of them is,
> he is not a Scientologist but an infiltrator, like Gerry
> Armstrong was.
Are you saying that when Scientology was criminally convicted in Canada, it
was the work of Evil Infiltrators?
> Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Android Cat (Ron Sharp) is in no position to defend David
>>> Touretzky legally.
>
>> Didn't know I had to defend him legally.
>
> Still, you are in no position to defend him, legally or
> illegally. :) Here you are defending him USENETally.
>
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> Are you suing him?
>
> Why isn't David Touretzky suing Religious Freedom Watch?
> That would be a more correct question. At least a legal
> notice with a copy posted to ARS? I don't see anything.
>
> David is charged with statements such as:
> "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
> I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
> congresswomen black?" - David Touretzky
Charged in a Kourt of Kook by Judge "Faxhor".
> Why are you defending him in usenet when you don't even know
> anything about it all. You don't even know about Scientology
> but you pretend you do with false statistics and false reports.
> You are very similar to Phil Scott. Dishonest.
>
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> By the way, my name isn't exactly a secret.
> <irrelevant 1991 Unix newsgroup reference snipped>
>
> I never said your identity was a secret. I figured it out
> months ago without your help, why would I even want your
> assistance today?
"Figured it out"? Wow. Who taught you how to use Google?
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> What's yours?
>
> Mine isn't important, see the current thread about identities.
> What is important is the content of my posts. I reference
> all the claims I make about others, so if you have a problem
> then I suggest you look up the source. I am not the source
> of this information.
Where is "Hiding" on the tone scale?
> Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> His action in defense of Touretzky is interesting. The
>>> demonstration of forging a statement by me does not prove
>>> his point, but rather demonstrates his dishonesty.
>
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> Only in your Bizarro World universe Faxhor.
>
> Your opinionated troll means nothing alongside referenced
> information.
Referenced sludge. Has any independent source validated those logs?
> Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Below, I have restored the original "attachment" to my post
>>> since Ron Sharp snipped them in his reply.
>
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> Snipped again because everyone has access to your original post,
>> stupid. Or you could just post a URL.
>
> LOL. Unsnipped and presented at front of posting. Ron Sharp
> don't enforce your censorship "standards" on me. I post how
> I want in this free country. I don't misinform, unlike those
> you defend such as David Touretzky. If you have a problem with
> what I have to say then stop reading my posts.
I'm trimming *my* posts in proper Usenet etiquette. Do you somehow imagine
that my post superceeds yours and deletes what you've posted? I also remove
the kook-sign crossposting.
> "Android Cat" wrote:
>> You still haven't answered my question: Do you have permission
>> from the University of Hawaii to use their computers?
>
> What a Dull question.
One that you haven't answered yet.
> By the way, did you know that even you are allowed to use these
> computers?
I haven't been to the Sinclair Library recently, I don't know what their
access rules are.
http://libweb.hawaii.edu/uhmlib/libinfo/hours_fall04.html#SINCLAIR
Are you sticking to the library hours?
--
Ron of that ilk.
____
Faxhor
<snip>
What do you get when you add "Hubbard" and "racist"?
Google "hubbard + racist" and have a nice day!
"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to his
Faxhor
Lady Chatterly
>
><snip>
If any there were any proof of your dualistic theory.
>What do you get when you add "Hubbard" and "racist"?
What do you ask if he get when he add hubbard and racist?
>"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
>the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
>Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
September.
>"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
>a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to his
>first wife Polly Grubb.
L ron hubbard in a letter to first wife polly grubb.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Hmmmmmmm ... Lady Chatterly writes as if she is a cousin or sister of
Hyderhal1. She offers no substance in debate, and resorts to name
calling - a sure sign of an intellectual void." -- S.Taylor
Warrior
Thanks for the revelatory words by L. Ron Hubbard.
Lady Chatterly
>
><snip>
If any there were any proof of your dualistic theory.
>What do you get when you add "Hubbard" and "racist"?
Do you think that they get when they add hubbard and racist?
>"The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in
>the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human standard." L.
>Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1 September 1957.
So, I think most folks Will simply find him the hypocrite he is, much
like so many other right wingers who proclaim family values but are
not able to walk their talk.
>"You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself
>a nigger; that's what they're born for." L Ron Hubbard in a letter to his
>first wife Polly Grubb.
L ron hubbard in a letter to first wife polly grubb.
--
Lady Chatterly
"BTW : I am NOT responsible for anything bot related !" -- Hans
Keshet
<9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>:
> kes...@RemoveThisPart.despammed.com (Keshet) wrote in message
news:<slrncqigu7...@shell.dhp.com>...
> > Spacetraveler (spacetra...@hotmail.com) wrote in
> > <9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>:
> > > Mike O'Connor <mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message
> > news:<mike-99A87A.2...@optonline.svc.highwinds-media.com>...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > > train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> > > > standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119, 1
> > > > September 1957.
> > >
> > > interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
> > > why would he have said anything like that?
> >
> > Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
>
> taken out of context.
>
> impossible person to train in the entire world -- he is probably
> impossible by any human standard."
>
In the link directly above that quote, "Big Auditing Problem":
<http://solitarytrees.net/racism/audit.htm>
Our philosophy, as stated on our first page
<http://solitarytrees.net/racism/racism.htm>:
"We do wish to be fair and therefore encourage our readers to
study both proponent and critical points of view. To that end,
wherever possible, we provide links to the official Scientology
sources or to larger extracts to allow the reader to understand
quoted material in fuller context. In other words, we let the
Church speak for itself."
I'd love to include the *whole* PAB #119, but that would be a
copyright violation, wouldn't it?.
> > <snip>
> >
> > > No, it's much easier than that. Even if he wrote that it does not make
> > > him a racist.
> >
> > What *does* it make him??
>
> An analyst, or may be a realist.
OK, I'll buy that...in the same way that the plantation owner in the
American "Old South" analyzed the inherent laziness and natural
ignorance of his slaves, and was realistic in his expectations of
their ability to produce for him.
Keshet
--
Keshet(at)despammed.com * http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/racism/
Where prejudice exists it always discolors our thoughts. -Mark Twain
Barbara Schwarz
> ================================================================
> "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
> I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
> congresswomen black?" - David Touretzky
> ================================================================
>
> "Android Cat" wrote:
> > > What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
>
> Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
> > It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron, as if
> > you would not know that. You find the exact links on the
> > www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original Touretzky
> > citations directly out of the IRC logs.
>
> Barbara, I saw that you noticed Android Cat trying to support
> his argument by forging a statement by me.
Yes, I noticed that he tried to find out who you are. But he does not
want to know who the Faxhor impostor is. Why not, artificial Ron?
>
> "Android Cat" is the only one here defending Touretzky,
Yes, he likes to defend the porn and bomb instruction guy.
> but if
> he was in a court of law attempting such a maneuver, any judge
> would sustain an objection. And I could start a new and separate
> case against him personally.
You just lost your case, Android Ron.
>
> And here he is attacking Scientology as if he knows what he's
> doing.
Lol. Android Ron, you don't know what you are doing. So, don't do it
again.
Barbara Schwarz
>
>
> Fax...@hotmail.com
Barbara Schwarz
> Faxhor wrote:
> >
> > "Android Cat" is the only one here defending Touretzky, but if
> > he was in a court of law attempting such a maneuver, any judge
> > would sustain an objection. And I could start a new and separate
> > case against him personally.
>
> As if you would ever crawl out from under your rock.
right now. He also can't reveal his identity as he has already such a
big fan club.
>
> > And here he is attacking Scientology as if he knows what he's
> > doing.
>
> Here, there...
>
> --
> Ron of that ilk.
Nice drawing, Ron. Nice self protrait. Quite handsome. And those big
implanted ears of you. Very revealing, and the ear inplants stick out.
See the + below.
Barbara Schwarz
>
> ____
> .--`` _``--. Please direct me
> /`- __- -\ \ \\`'. to a zoo. I am Ron Sharp and
// /` `\ \ \\ \ \ I get nasty when I am out of my
> / /.` `. \ \ _\'. cage.
> .-. |// ,,, `._.-` `'.-.
> / \/ .'` `'.??? .'` `'. \ / \
> /` /=. |/ .--. \/ .--. \ _ `\
> /` \ | / ` || / ` | /-& `\
> `\ + .'-: | O : || O : -'. + /`
> `\ | '\ '/ \\ ..` | /`
> `\ \ (_ `--'` ~~ `'--` _) / /`
> (_) `--..________..--` (_)
> `-.___ `-==-` ___.-`
> /; `-.____.-` `\
> /; # \
> /: ^ _.-$ \
> |# |=====----` _.|# |
> | _|&====----'` |# |
> |_.` |##? | `._|
> | |## | | What is with the ? in your body,
> \_.-``.? .``-._/ Ron? Is that where it sometimes
> | /\ \ / /\ | hurt?
Lady Chatterly
>
You can run.
--
Lady Chatterly
"You and Riki should shack up, Lady C, he's been feeling pretty lonely
ever since Trinity dumped him." -- Onideus Mad Hatter
Spacetraveler
> In article <9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>,
> spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
>
> > > > > ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > > "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
> > > > > train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> > > > > standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119,
> > > > > 1
> > > > > September 1957.
> > > >
> > > > So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
> > > > interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
> > > > why would he have said anything like that?
> > >
> > > Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
> >
> > Sorry will not do! Some quote does not say mcuh, a sentence can be
> > taken out of context.
> >
> > You only have: "The South African native is probably the one
> > impossible person to train in the entire world -- he is probably
> > impossible by any human standard."
> >
> > Where is the remainder of that article?
>
> passage? How?
>
> If I had it I'd post it, but I don't think I do. I believe it is
> extremely important to use accurate scriptural quotes. Since Scientology
> itself is so fixated on words and the exact source material, criticism
> should liberally use the words from the horse's... mouth, to back up its
> points.
Some text is inferiour to concepts. To whom was he talking to? Did he
use it to exemplify something? And so on, and so on. Sentences taken
out of context are the most usual tool to discredit something.
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
> >>>>> ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The South African native is probably the one impossible person to
> >>>>> train in the entire world -- he is probably impossible by any human
> >>>>> standard." L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor's Bulletin, No. 119,
> >>>>> 1 September 1957.
>
> >>>> So, and that's all you got. Seems to me you have to learn how to
> >>>> interpret english... You don't give the relation of this either, now
> >>>> why would he have said anything like that?
>
> >>> Here are some more: <http://solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm>.
>
> >In article <9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>,
> > spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry will not do! Some quote does not say mcuh, a sentence can be
> >> taken out of context.
> >>
> >> You only have: "The South African native is probably the one
> >> impossible person to train in the entire world -- he is probably
> >> impossible by any human standard."
> >>
> >> Where is the remainder of that article?
>
> O'Connor says...
> >
> >
> >Do you feel that the additional text will change the meaning of this
> >passage? How?
> >
> >If I had it I'd post it, but I don't think I do. I believe it is extremely
> >important to use accurate scriptural quotes. Since Scientology
> >itself is so fixated on words and the exact source material, criticism
> >should liberally use the words from the horse's... mouth, to back up
> >its points.
>
There you go!
Spacetraveler
Spacetraveler
> > "Nessie" <nes...@ReMoVeThiSwhyaretheydead.net> wrote in message news:<41aa6023$1...@news2.lightlink.com>...
> > > "Spacetraveler" <spacetra...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > > news:9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com...
> > > > I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
> > > > no one touches some posts of mine.
> > >
> > > Yeah, what a power you have, sucker!
> > > You are just not that interesting for people to reply. In fact, I'll
> > > rather have any postings from Boobs about the nazis, ear implants,
> > > secret sub cities and her other hallucinations about her father
> > > Hubbard, her grandfather president Eisenhower and her husband
> > > Rathbunny, above your booooooooooring ones. And at least Boobs
> > > is entertaining some times.
> >
> > Thank you for sharing with us your worries, and acknowledging my
> > point.... Much appreciated!
> >
> > Off course you prefer those "ear implants' and so on. It is easier to
> > get people being sceptical about them. It is not done that easy with
> > my posts though...
> >
> > Fact is that people refust to address exact issues, they ridicule or
> > run....wanna get out of this place.....
> >
> > Spacetraveler
>
> Nessie is Lise, a wanna be private investigator from the Netherlands.
> She once posted that she stalked me right to my home in Salt Lake
> City. Creepy people post here!
:-)
> She makes everybody ridiculous who has not her opinions without
> getting that she is the one who is unprofessional and ridiculous.
>
> She runs around with a stuffed animal on her arm where ever she goes
> and demands people she meets to be photographed with that stuffed
> animal. She is already pasted middle age, in case of you wanting to
> know if she is a teenager. No, she isn't. I think she is mentally
> retarded.
>
> As to mindcontrol, it is a psychiatric invention, and yes, it exists.
>
> You might find that website here interesting, Spacetraveller:
> www.datafilter.com/mc/
Saved the link, have to look at this little later on.
>
> It is everything but a nutty website, and that is why Nessie/Lisa does
> of course not read it. And if she would read it, I doubt that her IQ
> would last to understand it.
Well, does anyone wants to learn about him/herself? Tough nut you know.
Spacetraveler
>
> Barbara Schwarz
Spacetraveler
Off course, off course, it is always like that. What you don't like
about what you are doing yourself you want to place in someone or
something else. This way you 'think' it is not part of you. These
however are delusions. This is why the only way to 'break' (get
through to) these people is to confront them with themselves, you need
to evalutate and tell them in detail what you see. They will either
disappear (run) or become more nutty (aggressive), if you are
persistent they however will calm down. It's like putting the ARS in
the audting-chair.
I know people are following my posting with interest because my
approach is unusual and very to the point. It is nice with a fresh
wind sometimes, ain't it...?
> > Well, also totally absurd. Duplication and confront is hard for some
> > around here though. Peregrine continues to run from me, and Gerry
> > tries to weazle himself out of the web spun by this uncomfortable
> > person, meaning me. I think I scared the hell out of some around here,
> > no one touches some posts of mine.
> >
> > Spacetraveler
>
> That is right. As soon they have no arguments left, many ARS posters
> just run away and start a new threat with new rumours and lies and
> hope that other people fall for it.
Yeah, let's follow into the footsteps of Gerryoko (aka Gerryono).
Spacetraveler
Lady Chatterly
>
>Mike O'Connor <mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message news:<mike-CEB9AE.2...@optonline.svc.highwinds-media.com>...
>> In article <9f53d1e2.04112...@posting.google.com>,
>> spacetra...@hotmail.com (Spacetraveler) wrote:
>>
We could have a voiceover, female.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Another idiot from k00kland who doesn't know it is a BOT!!!" --
Kenneth Pangborn
Lady Chatterly
>
>Warrior <war...@xenu.ca> wrote in message news:<111705934.0...@drn.newsguy.com>...
He apparently thought it is all a big joke, but people whose rights
are being denied, do not find it neccessary to lie in order to tell
the truth at the same time at any given point in time.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Lady Chatterly is just a Stan Rosenthal wannabe. Pathetic." -- Did
Someone Ask For A Mentor?
Faxhor
>>>>> If you want to read some racial remarks, read what
>>>>> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
Like this one:
================================================================
"She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and she's black.
I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?" - David Touretzky
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky00.html
================================================================
"Android Cat" wrote:
>>>> What's your proof that David Touretzky wrote that?
Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
>>> It is in official Internet logs, Android Cat, articifial Ron,
>>> as if you would not know that. You find the exact links on
>>> the www.religiousfreedomwatch.org. You might dig the original
>>> Touretzky citations directly out of the IRC logs.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Barbara, I saw that you noticed Android Cat trying to support
>> his argument by forging a statement by me.
Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
> Yes, I noticed that he tried to find out who you are. But he
> does not want to know who the Faxhor impostor is. Why not,
> artificial Ron?
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> "Android Cat" is the only one here defending Touretzky,
Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
> Yes, he likes to defend the porn and bomb instruction guy.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> but if he was in a court of law attempting such a maneuver,
>> any judge would sustain an objection. And I could start a
>> new and separate case against him personally.
Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
> You just lost your case, Android Ron.
Fax...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> And here he is attacking Scientology as if he knows what he's
>> doing.
Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
> Lol. Android Ron, you don't know what you are doing. So, don't
> do it again.
If he does, it just shows how DULL this Mr. Sharp is. Great
example of the typical behavior of an ARS Maggot Cult.
"...I can have the very same bomb-making info
on MY web site..." - David Touretzky
================================================================
"Touretzky is an anarchist who fights any effort to protect
intellectual property rights on the Internet - except where
his own copyrighted materials are involved. He has railed
against the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), has
defied efforts to protect anti-piracy encryption software
for DVDs, and intentionally posted materials on his own
websites held to be unlawfully posted elsewhere. However,
research on the web shows that Touretzky has filed patents
to protect his own intellectual property, and has been quick
to use the DMCA to his advantage to defend against possible
infringements of his own copyrighted materials."
- http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky00.html
================================================================
"Terrorism is in fashion these days."
- David Touretzky
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/blog01/archives/
================================================================
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/touretzky0.html
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AFRICAN AMERICANS:
Part I
David Touretzky: "There should be a video game where you can beat
Rodney King."
Part II
David Touretzky: "Don't quote that scumbag Jesse Jackson, Tory, or
I'll puke in your lap."
Part III
David Touretzky: "I think we need a project to kick Oprah's ass."
Part IV
Rob Clark: "Senator Diane Watson, California State Senate."
David Touretzky: "Oh, she's a *state* senator. Did she get elected to
congress after that statement was made? So now she's their whore in
Washington?"
Rob Clark: "dst, no, now she's a congresscritter."
David Touretzky: "She is the former ambassador to Micronesia! and
she's black. I should have known. What are all the really st00000pid
congresswomen black?"
Part V
Lady Chatterly
>
>Barbara Schwarz (Stilllov...@myway.com) wrote:
>>>>>> If you want to read some racial remarks, read what
>>>>>> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
>
>Like this one:
It is sitting on my computer to do shelf.
--
Lady Chatterly
"She does have some personality problems or something kicking around
her head that isn't quite healthy." -- Leone
Faxhor
>>>>>>> If you want to read some racial remarks, read what
>>>>>>> Dave Touretzky wrote about blacks and others.
Like this one:
================================================================
Tory Christman "Magoo" wrote:
> Naw.....it was Thursday right before 2:00....a feeble attempt
> to up the "Stats". How sick is this organization?
LOL. Tory Christman is a Kook. Does she still think I am
Bill Yaude or maybe now she thinks I am Bill Gates or maybe
she thinks I am Satan.
================================================================
TOURETZKY THE DEFIANT CYBERTERRORIST
Jommy Cross
msg <3e471c14.0411...@posting.google.com>:
<snip>
>Ain't is strange that Faxhor, Spacetraveller, Wanlorn and Barbara
>Schwarz have made a comment on damn near every post except mine.
>
>Wassup kids?
<snip>
Too difficult?
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
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