Charlie Manson has great respect for L. Ron Hubbard.
Muldoon
Phil Scott
"Muldoon" <bria...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:1123450711....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Manson did Scientology drills in prison and was never the
> same again.
Charlie Manson also attended the LA org when it was near
McArthur park and 5th street for about a year and half prior
to that. The details are in Vincent Bugliosi's book.
'Helter Skelter', Bugliosi was the prosecutor in the Sharon
Tate murder case.
Phil Scott
>
WCB
Long ago here, Dennis Erlich spilled the beans how Scientology
went on on a shredding party to purge all Scientology files of
all stuff that mentioned Manson from Scientology records.
--
When I shake my killfile I can hear them buzzing.
Lisa Ruby
>Long ago here, Dennis Erlich spilled the beans how >Scientology went on on a shredding party to purge all >Scientology files of all stuff that mentioned Manson from >Scientology records.
I'm going to look for that in the archives. If anybody else finds the
post, kindly paste it or link to it in this thread.
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Lisa Ruby
Aug 11 2001, 3:56 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: m...@michaelgebert.com (Michael Gebert) - Find messages by this
author
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:55:15 -0600
Local: Sat, Aug 11 2001 4:55 pm
Subject: Charles Manson and Notorious Author L. Ron Hubbard Connection?
Think about it, Travis.
Hubbard and Jack Parsons try to create the Beast 666.
Charles Manson gets trained by Scientology, later starts his own cult.
Ira Levin writes Rosemary's Baby, inspired by Hubbard and Parsons'
efforts.
Roman Polanski directs the movie of it.
Manson's cult murders Polanski's wife and friends. end quote
Any comments?
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Phil Scott
"Lisa Ruby" <Commis...@groupmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123470860....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Impressive research Lisa. Very interesting. I hope you
forward the vapor trail to Arnaldo and a few other web masters
or post it all here so it can be included in those web sites.
a repost of that under the proper heading would be good too
so that it becomes more easily searchable on google.
Phil Scott
>
>
> Lisa Ruby
> http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
>
Mike O'Connor
"Lisa Ruby" <Commis...@groupmail.com> wrote:
> WCB wrote:
>
> >Long ago here, Dennis Erlich spilled the beans how >Scientology went on on a
> >shredding party to purge all >Scientology files of all stuff that mentioned
> >Manson from >Scientology records.
>
> I'm going to look for that in the archives. If anybody else finds the
> post, kindly paste it or link to it in this thread.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Upon being arrested in 1961, "Manson gave as his claimed religion
`Scientologist,' stating that he `has never settled upon a religious
formula for his beliefs and is presently seeking an answer to his
question in the new mental health cult known as Scientology.'
"Scientology, an outgrowth of science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard's
Dianetics, was just coming into vogue at this time. Manson's teacher,
i.e. `auditor', was another convice, Lanier Rayner. Manson would
later claim that while in prison he achieved Scientology's highest
level, `beta- clear'...
"Although Manson remained interested in Scientology much longer than
he did in any other subject except music, it appears that...he stuck
with it only as long as his enthusiasm lasted, then dropped it,
extracting and retaining a number of phrases (`auditioning' [sic],
'cease to exist', 'coming to Now') and some concepts (karma,
reincarnation, etc.) which, perhaps fittingly, Scientology had
borrowed in the first place."
-- HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi, page 144
++++++++++++++++++++++
By August of 1966, with little other explanation than his constant
inability to stick with anything, a pre-release prison report mentions
that "Manson had no further interest in academic or vocational
training; that he was no longer an advocate of Scientology..."
-- HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi, page 146
++++++++++++++++++++++
"I knew too, both from his prison records and from my conversations
with him, that Manson's involvement with Scientology had been more than
a passing fad. Manson told me, as he had Paul Watkins, that he had
reached the highest state, "theta clear", and no longer had any
connection with or need for Scienology."
-- HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi, page 635
++++++++++++++++++++++
On November 21, 1969, the bodies of James Sharp, fiften, and Dorren
Gaul, nineteen, were found in an alley in downtown Los Angeles. The two
teen-agers had been killed elsewhere with a long-bladed kniife or
bayonet, then dumped there. Each had been stabbed over fifty times.
Ramparts division Leiutenant Earl Deemer investigated the Sharp-Gaul
murders, as did Los Angeles Times reporter Cohen. Although the two men
felt there was a good possibility that a Familty member was involved in
the slayings, the murders remain unsolved.
Both James Sharp and Doreen Gaul were Scientologists, the latter a
Scientology "clear" who had been residing in a Church of Scientology
house. According to unconfirmed reports, Doreen Gaul was a former girl
friend of Manson Family member Bruce Davis, himself an
ex-Scientologist.
Davis' whereabouts at the times of the murders of Sharp, Gaul and Jane
Doe 59 are not known. He disappeared shortly after being questioned in
connection with the death of Zero.
On December 1, 1969, Joel Dean Pugh, husband of Family member Sandy
Good, was found with his throat slit in a London hotel room. As noted,
local police ruled the death a suicide. On learning of Pugh's demise,
Inyo County DA Frank Fowles made official inquiries, specifically
asking Interpol to check visas to detrmine if one Bruce Davis was in
England at the time.
Scotland Yard replied as follows: "It has been established that Davis
is recorded as embarking at London airport for the United States of
America on 25th April 1969 while holding United States passport 612
2568. At this time he gave his address as Dormer Cottage, Felbridge,
Surrey. This address is owned by the Scientology Movement and houses
followers of this organization."
-- HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi, page 647
++++++++++++++++++++++
"The subject that interested me was understanding and knowing my own
mind. Prison psychs had told me often enough that I had 'persecution'
and 'inferiority' complexed but they never did anything to help me
overcome those faults..."
"I read whatever books I could find (and understand) that dealt with
mind development. A cell partner turned me on to Scientology. With him
and another guy I got pretty heavy into Dianetics and Scientology.
Through this and by other studies, I came out of my state of
depression. I was understanding myself better, had a positive outlook
on life, and knew how to direct my energies to each day and each task"
-- MANSON IN HIS OWN WORDS, as told to Nuel Emmons p.69
++++++++++++++++++++++
"There were times when I would try to sell Karpis on the things I was
learning through Scientology. 'Kid', he would say, 'your mind is your
greatest friend, yet it can be your worst enemy. Don't get it more
fucked up than the world has already made it.'"
-- MANSON IN HIS OWN WORDS, as told to Nuel Emmons p.69
[on Alan "Creepy" Karpis, an imprisoned hit-man]
++++++++++++++++++++++
One famous, in fact infamous person interested in Scientology that they
do not boast about, talk about, or probably even want is Charles
Manson, the convicted murderer of Sharon Tate and her friends. The New
York Times stated that Manson first got interested in Scientology while
he was incarcerated in the McNeil Island Penitentiary in Washington
(Scientology' has programs for prisons). After his release, The Times
reported, he went to Los Angeles where he was said to have met local
Scientologists and attended several parties for movie stars, possibly
the July 18 dedication of the celebrity center. Scientology literature
was also said to be found at the ranch when Manson and his family were
captured. But for reasons unknown, it is claimed that Manson may have
been made a "suppressive person" by the Scientologists, and there have
also been hints that he may have joined the Process, the sex and satan
group which originally broke away from Scientology,.
-- A PIECE OF BLUE SKY
++++++++++++++++++++++
KEY DEFENSIVE MATERIALS
The following is a list of VITAL materials that will help you
understand how Dianetics and Scientology according to their own
internal and secret policies tends to deal with their advesaries in a
conflict. Knowing it in advance you can save yourself a lot of
difficulty.
[...]
The following list of documents were siezed by the FBI on its
authorized search of Scientology's headquarters in LA and Washington
DC. They are all obtainable using the freedom of Information act,
request procedures. Complete sets have also been sent to the three anti
cult organizations mentioned near the end of this document.
5.* Write up of May 1, 1974. Regarding Security and Theft of
Ma~erials. (How to for, breaking and entering procedures.)
6.* Write up December 2, 1974.
7. L.R.H. Aides Conference. November 2, 1969. Covert
Operations.
8.* Intelligence Specialist Training Routine. TR-L (Intel TR's,
How to lie effectively.)
9.* FBI Document #8592.
10.* Red Box Data Information Sheet (Contains information on how
to purge internal files of disinformation, non profit lobbying,
and any information which would show that Church of Scientology
motives were nonhumanitarian.)
11.* Operation Freakout. April 1 1976. (Church attempts to drive
insane, incapitate, or jail critic using 5.5. and Gestapo like
tactics.)
12. June 22, 1970. Compliance Report Regarding Charles Manson,
Bruce Davis. (Manson went a bit wild on Auditing.)
[...]
- Lawrence Wollersheim
FACTNET document
++++++++++++++++++++++
From: dennis....@support.com
Message-ID: <951025212...@support.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 21:21:40 -0700
[...]
OSA has a standard patter to answer the Manson allegations.
Trouble is, it's not true. Manson was a scieno. He took the
Comm Course at LA Org in 67, I believe it was. Before I got
there. I remember hearing something about it when the vetting
occurred.
++++++++++++++++++++++
From: anon-r...@utopia.hacktic.nl (Anonymous)
Date: 30 Oct 1995 08:48:23 +0100
Message-ID: <472007$5...@utopia.hacktic.nl>
[...]
nob...@flame.alias.net (Anonymous) wrote:
[...]
In article <46ppt5$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, DWTripp <dwt...@aol.com>
wrote:
I was on ASHO staff at the time. I did hold a tech post. My knowledge
regarding GO actions in the wake of Manson's arrest came from my
attendence at regular Friday night poker games where the presence of
Henning Heldt, Martin Greenberg and other GO people was consistent.
Yes, they did talk shop. The "claim" made at the time (I believe it was
Martin) was that LA Org records had shown that Manson had possibly done
a Communications Course and bought some books. No refernce was ever
made regarding any purge of records and if such was done, it was likely
initiated by LA Org Execs. Possibly even Erlich.
This is bullshit. This is the GO trying to MINIMIZE Manson's
Not bullshit.
involvement. Using the word "possibly" is trying to avoid an outright
lie (Manson wasn't involved) to a fellow Scientologist.
You all have the WRONG slant on this. I'm not saying Charles Manson
^^^ ^^^^^^^
Correction, mostly all wrong. Too much speculation, too few facts.
Charles Manson was a Scientologist.
"Possibly" is correct re Comm Course at LA Day.
In addition to auditing when he was in jail,
Charles Manson was "being handled" as a
"clandestine op" off org lines. (If you don't know
what this means, ask Dennis - or Henning or
Moxon or McShane or DM if you can.)
When the news of the murders reached MSH
and LRH on the ship they immediately sent an
encoded telex to D/G US to cancel the msn and
vet all records. A GO "assessment" was done
to evaluate the risk to LRH (not Scn) if info re
the Manson connection was discovered.
(ONLY Henning, the ops and the missionaire
should have known and certainly this would
NOT have been poker party chat.) Years
later, when Manson's name came up again
LRH ordered another "assessment" done.
This time the order travelled thru the CMO
and was seen to by none other than ________ .
Be ye able to fill in the blank, Andy, boy?
Tak' th' high road and ask aboot yoor
own hoose, me laddy.
Rocks be a' slammin'
Old Timer
++++++++++++++++++++++
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Remember Lisa McPherson
Lisa Ruby
Quote from Mike O'Connor's post:
"Although Manson remained interested in Scientology much
longer than he did in any other subject except music, it appears
that...he stuck with it only as long as his enthusiasm lasted, then
dropped it,
extracting and retaining a number of phrases (`auditioning' [sic],
'cease to exist', 'coming to Now') and some concepts (karma,
reincarnation, etc.) which, perhaps fittingly, Scientology had
borrowed in the first place."
-- HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi, page 144
I noticed the phrase, "coming to now" in the 2004 tv movie
of Helter Skelter, which I viewed recently for the purpose of research.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383393/
I did not know that "coming to now" Scientology phrase but I noticed
they used this phrase a few times in the movie.
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Phil Scott
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:dd6j2c$9gq$1...@news.tdl.com...
Oh yes and one more thing, the more people that clone and
repost it under different headings the more difficult it is to
irradicate.
Phil Scott
>>
>
>
Phil Scott
Oh yes and one more thing.... when the material is cloned into
a larger text it becomes even harder for a cult member to
search and irradicate... so.. to make it stick, use many
authors, different subject headers...and cloned into a larger
body of text works.
anytime someone replies to such a post, with the material left
in tact and comments made, that also makes it legally harder
to irradicate because the commenting person has first
amendment rights also...so its not a one target assault for
scn that way..they have to assault multiple targets to get rid
of one item.
Phil Scott
>>
>
>
WCB
William S. Burrough's most twisted writings seem to
have a a sense of Scientology's more outrageous
sense of surrealism.
>
>
> Lisa Ruby
> http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Rasta Robert
> The following was posted by . Michael Gebert:
>
> Aug 11 2001, 3:56 pm show options
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> From: m...@michaelgebert.com (Michael Gebert) - Find messages by this
> author
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:55:15 -0600
> Local: Sat, Aug 11 2001 4:55 pm
> Subject: Charles Manson and Notorious Author L. Ron Hubbard Connection?
>
>
> Think about it, Travis.
>
> Hubbard and Jack Parsons try to create the Beast 666.
>
untrue...
> Charles Manson gets trained by Scientology, later starts his own cult.
>
> Ira Levin writes Rosemary's Baby, inspired by Hubbard and Parsons'
> efforts.
>
I doubt that, but Hubbard's and Parsons' "Babalon workings" were
most probably inspired by the book 'Moonchild" by Aleister Crowley.
--
<http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
WCB
The usual formulation is "come up to present time".
Hubard claims many isane and psychotic peopel were
reacting to situation on their whole track past lives and
were stuck in the past.
Pulling them into present time would cure their
insanity. Hallucinations and voices were actual
voices and visios from past lives.
ewsnead
"Mike O'Connor" <mi...@leptonicsystems.com> wrote in message
news:mike-70C2F3.0...@optonline.svc.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <1123469339.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Lisa Ruby" <Commis...@groupmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Although Manson remained interested in Scientology much longer than
> he did in any other subject except music, it appears that...he stuck
> with it only as long as his enthusiasm lasted, then dropped it,
> extracting and retaining a number of phrases (`auditioning' [sic],
> 'cease to exist', 'coming to Now') and some concepts (karma,
The phrase "cease to exist," one which Manson purportedly took from
Scientology, was also the title of a song that he wrote. Unknown to many,
Manson was a reasonably prolific song-writer and not a bad strum-along
guitarist. The song "Cease to Exist," along with several others, was
actually recorded in a studio by Manson and a few accompanying members of
his family who contributed some crude percussion effects. Manson also spent
some time hanging out with Beach Boy, Dennis Wilson, at Wilson's house in
the Hollywood hills. It actually came about that Wilson also recorded "Cease
to Exist," with a few lyrical changes and retitled as, "Never Learn not to
Love." This song was featured on the 1968 Beach Boys album, "20/20."
I am aware of only one other band to cover a Manson song in a recording
studio, this being the neo-psychedelic rockers known as The Brian Jonestown
Massacre. In 1997, the BJM recorded a six song CD with a Dylanesque ambience
titled "Bringing It All Back Home Again." One of its songs, "Arkansas
Revisited," contains lyrics culled (and attributed to) from the Manson tune,
"Arkansas." Interestingly, this is the *only* cover song that the Brian
Jonestown Massacre has recorded in their musical career, which began in 1990
and now includes 14 completed CD's.
Original Manson family recordings are still available from Amazon. These
include the 1970 "Family Jams"
and the earlier "Lie: The Love and Terror Cult," which features Charlie on
guitar and contains the aforementioned "Cease to Exist" and "Arkansas."
If anyone knows more trivia relating to the music of Charles Manson, please
share.
ewsnead
--
"Scientology: boldly challenging the MEST universe since 1953, with
decidedly mixed results."
Spam? No! No! Fun? Yes! Yes!
Muldoon wrote:
> Manson did Scientology drills in prison and was never the same again.
Didn't Claire post that she knew somebody who knew the "auditor" of
Manson and that Manson and his "auditor" rather audited Manson as a
joke?
Perhaps Osama Bin Laden lit a candle once. Does that make him a
Christian?
Barbara Schwarz
Interesting websites:
www.religiousfreedomwatch.org
www.cchr.com
Ball of Fluff
"WCB" <wbar...@Mungggedd.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:11fddjq...@corp.supernews.com...
Of course they would. A lot of people probably would do that. I would have
considered that had I been head of CofS. They wouldn't want him linked to
their organization. The guy's a pig, a sociopath, a total evil nut.
C
Muldoon
Simkatu wrote:
> Spam? No! No! Fun? Yes! Yes! wrote:
> > Muldoon wrote:
>
> >>Manson did Scientology drills in prison and was never the same again.
>
> > Didn't Claire post that she knew somebody who knew the "auditor" of
> > Manson and that Manson and his "auditor" rather audited Manson as a
> > joke?
>
>
> > Perhaps Osama Bin Laden lit a candle once. Does that make him a
> > Christian?
>
> or "real" Muslim is difficult to say.
>
> When a person says they profess a religion, there's not much one can do
> but accept it.
>
> Charlie said he adopted the religion of Scientology and reached clear.
> You can always argue that he wasn't a "good" Scientologist or a "real"
> Scientologist, but he was an "admitted" Scientologist.
Where do you think the famous "Manson stare" came from - TR 0.
"Fixed glare" of KSW, etc.
Kim Palmer
\sociopaths and psychopaths all have that stare - it is NOT unique to
TR-0 - it shows lack of emotion or connectivity to people - in the
"normal" sense - no conscience = no ability for compassion/empathy -
which are listed as negatives on hubbard's tone scale...hmmm
Kim P
Muldoon
Charlie Manson did TR O. That's not a secret. Manson was impressed with
the idea of making "his postulates stick" - of being "OT." He saw
himself as a superman. Manson was insane to begin with, but the
Scientology involvement is real.
Phil Scott
Charlie mansons folders. records or reciepts or whatever were
extensive enough to require the cult to spend some time
vetting them. His involvement with the LA org lasted for over
a year. Id guess he did a few courses as well as the com
course. and maybe some auditing... he did get quite a bit of
auditing when he was in prison from fellow scientologist
Lampier (I think thats the name).
Phil Scott
>
Ball of Fluff
Lanier Rayner ran CCHS on Charlie baby in prison. I once knew a girl
who went out with him.
Scn involvement more than CofS involvement.
Anyone can try out a concept or method. Doesn't make it the group's or
philosophy's fault that the person does it.
C
Kim Palmer
is ridiculous - tying manson to the beast and dragging in a movie etc
etc - the tenuous tie ins that these conspiracy freaks find never cease
to amaze me
Kim P
Phil Scott
"Spam? No! No! Fun? Yes! Yes!" <BarbaraSc...@excite.com>
wrote in message
news:1123523721.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Muldoon wrote:
>> Manson did Scientology drills in prison and was never the
>> same again.
>
> Didn't Claire post that she knew somebody who knew the
> "auditor" of
> Manson and that Manson and his "auditor" rather audited
> Manson as a
> joke?
>
> Perhaps Osama Bin Laden lit a candle once. Does that make
> him a
> Christian?
Hubbard was a dyed in the wool satanist his entire life
with that lineage of mentors behind him... Charlie Manson came
along and coopted scientology into what he was already
involved in and then carried out the well known left hand path
satanic agenda, and said so, the reason for the Tate / La
Bianca murders were to cause a race war that would take
civilization down so that 'the bringer of light' (Lucifer)
could return.
Mansons involvement with Hubbard and satinism runs deep.
Phil Scott
Ball of Fluff
"Kim Palmer" <yduzit...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:42f8e2b1$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
Ahem. Speaking as a course supv I can tell you that anyone in my courseroom
who was "staring" during TRs would have gotten flunked by me.
C
Ball of Fluff
"Simkatu" <anuss...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42f8b02c$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> Spam? No! No! Fun? Yes! Yes! wrote:
>
>>>Manson did Scientology drills in prison and was never the same again.
>
>> Didn't Claire post that she knew somebody who knew the "auditor" of
>> Manson and that Manson and his "auditor" rather audited Manson as a
>> joke?
>
He didn't get any certs. He just decided he was Clear/OT, etc.
>
>> Perhaps Osama Bin Laden lit a candle once. Does that make him a
>> Christian?
>
> No. Osama self-identifies as a Muslim. Whether he is a "good" Muslim or
> "real" Muslim is difficult to say.
>
> When a person says they profess a religion, there's not much one can do
> but accept it.
>
> Charlie said he adopted the religion of Scientology and reached clear. You
> can always argue that he wasn't a "good" Scientologist or a "real"
> Scientologist, but he was an "admitted" Scientologist.
Lotsa people pick up books, etc, and dabble in things.
C
Barbara Schwarz
Phil Scott wrote:
> "Spam? No! No! Fun? Yes! Yes!" <BarbaraSc...@excite.com>
> wrote in message
> news:1123523721.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Muldoon wrote:
> >> Manson did Scientology drills in prison and was never the
> >> same again.
> >
> > Didn't Claire post that she knew somebody who knew the
> > "auditor" of
> > Manson and that Manson and his "auditor" rather audited
> > Manson as a
> > joke?
> >
> > Perhaps Osama Bin Laden lit a candle once. Does that make
> > him a
> > Christian?
>
> Hubbard was a dyed in the wool satanist his entire life
> with that lineage of mentors behind him... Charlie Manson came
> along and coopted scientology into what he was already
> involved in and then carried out the well known left hand path
> satanic agenda, and said so, the reason for the Tate / La
> Bianca murders were to cause a race war that would take
> civilization down so that 'the bringer of light' (Lucifer)
> could return.
You guys discredit yourself with those kinds of outrageous
fabrications.