Protest against the $cientology cult, Birmingham, UK, 2nd Oct 2004
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
Hello There!
Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront from
the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being called to
order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to members of
the $cientology religion.
Well, now, would we do that??
Why don't you judge for yourself..
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as quickly
as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of policing
reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word banned
- - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
But I'm jumping ahead.
Five of us, Dave Bird, John Ritson, Neal Clark and New Protester converged
on Birmingham in order to protest against the offences brought by the
criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology against
the human rights of its victims (most of whom are members) and to inform
about the true nature and cost of the goods innocently masquerading as
psycho-babble self-help with "church" somewhere in the name of the seller.
We met late because of various traffic related problems and other symptoms
of the chronic lack of organisation which is the cunning way in which the
A.R.S.C.C. (wdne) disguises its tight control over our every move. There
had been a fairly heavy shower half an hour before we met (at one point I
drove through a puddle and got splash across the entire width of the front
of the car - pretty good going since the front wheels are a good way back).
The rain stopped completely after that (whew!) and we had a pleasant day
out from then on.
We rambled into our usual position on the high street on the corner of their
shop, and got going with the leaflets and the sound-system, John rolling
into action with his normal "protesting *AGAINST* the Barmy UFO Cult of
$cientology!" and the related shpiel. Leaflets were being handed out and no
clams had shown up. We had declined to bring our ever popular range off
free XENU LOVES YOU balloons so as to keep everything light and easy to
handle. So far, so normal.
Then the police showed up and, indeed , turned out to be in our honour (and
not the much bigger and louder something Palestine something demo on the
next corner). Before the demo, we had - as usual - agreed with the police
to play nice. It turned out that "play nice" included not offending any
religious people, the "Religiously Aggravated Harassment" rules being
specifically cited.
Hmmm.
As we *do* want to "play nice" (yes, really, we do!!), we agreed to not have
the word "Cult" and the word "Barmy" on the loudhailer. We went on
"protesting *AGAINST* the $cientology organisation" and handing out
leaflets.
After some time, we were informed that we were not welcome within earshot of
the $cientology shop. We hmm'ed and haw'ed and ambled a few hundred yards
up to the big square and got ourselves a nice spot (by the Iron Man) where
passers-by were stopping to look at the "pictures of the world" display.
Nice, but not our first choice of location... We continued, going back to
"protesting *AGAINST* the cult of $cientology" and handing out leaflets.
After some time (not so much), a man in a suit was engaging in conversation
with our two kindly police protectors (you do need protection by the police
when protesting asgainst the $cientology cult, see
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/egrinstead0403_a.html ),
and we were informned that using the word "cult" was not allowed in public,
in case a member of the cult in question walked by and took offence. Or, as
in our case, followed us around, taking offence. Guess what? We were
required to stop with the C-word on the loudhailer.
By this time, we were not surprised to see, after not so much time, the
offended clam eagerly showing our leaflet to the police. Oh Dear, he might
have been offended again! OOoops!! It did turn out that we could not hand
out those leaflets in the centre of Birmingham in case someone was
offended. We got this in writing, as we felt that this was pretty strong
stuff and not something we had expected.
So, at the end, we were down to lecturing about the human right abuses by
the criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology, e.g.
relating the story of Lisa McPherson and how her family had cause to regret
that the $cientololy goons were allowed to "care" for her after her nervous
breakdown. http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
We knocked off after the two hours we'd agreed with the police, and went for
a light refreshment and a confab. While OSA had achieved more of their
goals than we had of our goals, the new focus of the law on our activities
could well be good in the long term in getting us thinking harder about
what we do, when we do it and where we do it.
So, a different day out was had by all and things won't be the same again...
Best Regards
Jens
PS On the way back from the demo, we passed the clam body-routers in the
spot we had vacated. They were handing out leaflets. Good job we're not
easily offended ;-)
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mdk Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"Der Fuhrer never said 'BABY'!" 'The Producers'
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roger gonnet
"Jens Tingleff" <jens...@tingleff.org> a écrit dans le message de news:
cjobk...@news1.newsguy.com...
Fantastically insane reactions.
Scientology IS NOT a recognized religion in UK, so what?
Why all this police's noise around that criminal C-U-L-T, or CLAMCULT, or
cult, or whatever faked religion, or commercial insanity, or fraudulous
scam, or whatever name could apply there?
I fear that you have, next time, to go first to the Dept Office commander,
and hand him the complete decision of the Charity Commission re'garding the
clam cult.
You can get it here from the last 25 march 2004 decision, which had been
preceded by a 1999 decision saying similar when not identical things.
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/findCompanyInfo.shtml
Don't forget to senf the police back to listening those who violate the laws
of UK.
You can get more of the needed documents from UK Government sites:
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/findCompanyInfo.shtml
Better search on East Grinstead and scientology, dianetics or such keywords.
Don't hesitate to ask for help by mail or phone, Jens.
Thanks a lot for your great job trying to be nice kids with a scam cult
who's not able to know its own very recent refusal as a charity as well as
as a religion.
r
Hartley Patterson
Sorry to have missed this demo :-(
> After some time, we were informed that we were not welcome within earshot of
> the $cientology shop.
Interesting precedents are being set here. Not being allowed to picket
within earshot of people is going further than, for example, pickets at
industrial disputes. Does this mean that Ian Paisley (Irish Protestant
bigot with very loud voice) can't say anything about the Bishop of Rome
within a mile of a Catholic Church?
> and we were informned that using the word "cult" was not allowed in public,
> in case a member of the cult in question walked by and took offence.
That's steering close to the line as well. In a recent case a judge
slapped down an attempt by police to silence a soap box speaker on
public order grounds. If passersby were offended they had a simple
option, to walk away.
> It did turn out that we could not hand
> out those leaflets in the centre of Birmingham in case someone was
> offended. We got this in writing, as we felt that this was pretty strong
> stuff and not something we had expected.
The Xenu leaflet (Roland's paraphrase of OT3) is not so much offensive
as terrifying to CoS fanatics, as if everyone read it their mission to
save humanity would be ruined.
This is the problem with trying to push the criminal law into areas such
as prejudice and racism, since you are telling people they can't express
their opinions and they understandably don't like this. Conversely
members of religious organisations *are* going to find attacks on their
organisation offensive, and are *not* going to understand why this law
doesn't protect them.
For non-UK people we are here facing a new law aimed at racists who say
'Moslem' when they mean 'Wog'. The law can't be specific of course so we
are affected by it although the Scientology controversy has no racial
element.
> So, at the end, we were down to lecturing about the human right abuses by
> the criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology, e.g.
> relating the story of Lisa McPherson and how her family had cause to regret
> that the $cientololy goons were allowed to "care" for her after her nervous
> breakdown. http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
There's still plenty to talk about!
--
"I just might be the angel at your door"
A medieval spreadsheet and enturbulating entheta.
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
Mike Gormez
wrote in <cjobk...@news1.newsguy.com>:
>We knocked off after the two hours we'd agreed with the police, and went for
>a light refreshment and a confab. While OSA had achieved more of their
>goals than we had of our goals, the new focus of the law on our activities
>could well be good in the long term in getting us thinking harder about
>what we do, when we do it and where we do it.
There doesn't remain much to do under those oppressive rules. I would
leaflet the whole neighborhood.
You have to fight and write the police department a protest letter telling
them that the clam was following you and if that is allowed then soon you
can't say cult in your own home anymore because they can hear it when
standing outside picketing your fucking home.
I've had a cop tell me I couldn't use stuff on a sign which quoted Time
mag and he was quite serious, I had to talk my way out of it or I was
taking in - it was during a solo anti-narconon sales pitch picket. So to
counter that crap I'd printed 2 court rulings out which cointained that
phrase in Dutch and which was allowed by the judge to be used in Readers
Digest. It was uphold on appeal as well so any future cop could be
lectured, defending my rights.
We all know the world has never been more '1984' than it is now, and if we
don't speak up it will only get worse. What about the civil stuff Dave
Bird is engaged in? Aren't they on their rear legs about the new evil
lawy which places beliefs above expression?
--
Mike Gormez
- WISE is Scientology recruitment in the workplace http://stop-wise.biz/
- Scientology and health http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect http://www.taxexemptchildabuse.net/
- Hubbard on psychs http://whyaretheydead.net/misc/scientology_hatred_of_psychiatry.html
Phil Scott
Very interesting turns of events Jens... thanks for the
report.
Regardless of the situation the ARSCC...wdne... with your
agency will no doubt find ways to educate the gentle
public.... I dont believe there can be a law against
publishing scientology inc's criminal record on fliers and
handing those out to its potential victims. ...one has a right
to informed consent. I cant imagine the courts ruling against
itself in that regard... stifling dissemination of its own
rulings.
Thats what the public record is for... Nor is asking
questions actionable in most cases... one can think of a lot
of questions to ask in public.
One could also form a parallel religious philosphy... founded
by L Rong Hoover... the church of appliantology. the suckem
up the money religion. Or the church of the rubber chicken
and razzi horn...getting out the truth about fraud.
Then the scientologists could claim that you were not really a
religion... that would open the discussion suitably.
Let the cultie boys whine about that.... you could have a
'great debate'...with L Rong quotes and all... a Hoover
shrine... money being sucked up...and price lists....with
warnings about space aliens invading. ... you could report all
this in the 'Rubber chicken news'... handed out free on the
public streets as a public service. It wouldnt even have to
mention phatso.
It would be exciting. Then you could demand money, and make
others demand money...and make those make others demand more
money.
You could even write some policy directives.... HCOPL's
Hoover Compliance Officer Policy Letters.
Trying to outlaw dry humor, or parody, or publishing the
public record in England might be a little difficult.
I wouldnt be surprised if you could sell a few dozen rubber
chickens at such an event...
"git yer RUBBER CHICKEN here folks...... rubber chickens....5
pounds each...." the public will want to know whats up
with the rubber chickens and you could say that its your way
of handlng the space alien invasion....and suggest the person
meet with the scientologists for details on thier approach.
That would make an entertaining court case. "scientology
vs the church of the rubbber chicken"
Phil Scott
"Jens Tingleff" <jens...@tingleff.org> wrote in message
news:cjobk...@news1.newsguy.com...
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
Jens Tingleff wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello There!
>
> Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the
> Birmingham shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of
> $cientology.
>
> We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront
> from the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being
> called to order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to
> members of the $cientology religion.
>
> Well, now, would we do that??
>
> Why don't you judge for yourself..
>
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
>
> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as
> quickly as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of
> policing reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
>
> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word
> banned - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
>
Ah, a slight error. The banned leaflet was
http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf
which has an offensive word on it - oh dear!
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mdk Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"If t'were you, t'would be twerrific!" 'Men in Tights'
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Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild
Too bad you don't have freedom of speach and expression in your
country. Over here even in fascist USA, police still are not allowed
to tell people what words they may and may not speak.
>Ah, a slight error. The banned leaflet was
>
> http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf
>
>which has an offensive word on it - oh dear!
>
>Best Regards
>
> Jens
---
RE-ELECT PRESIDENT GORE IN 2004
Genesis
"Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild" <deser...@cchr.ws> wrote in message
news:4160...@news2.lightlink.com...
>
> Too bad you don't have freedom of speach and expression in your
> country. Over here even in fascist USA, police still are not allowed
> to tell people what words they may and may not speak.
>
Till then speak your mind.
Genesis
--awareness is only enjoyed by a few--
Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild
wrote:
>"Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild" <deser...@cchr.ws> wrote in message
>news:4160...@news2.lightlink.com...
>> Too bad you don't have freedom of speach and expression in your
>> country. Over here even in fascist USA, police still are not allowed
>> to tell people what words they may and may not speak.
>Give it time, and not much. Our rights are being usurped daily.
>Till then speak your mind.
We shall see if Bush2 again uses treason and deceit to cheat. The
balloting machines here are still too easy to hack, and several states
have banned their use--- if they had done so before the previous
election, over 1,000 American soldiers would not have died in Iraq,
the Iraqi invasion would not have occured, the national treasury would
not be empty, and the national dept would not be in the trillions of
dollars.
>Genesis
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net
is just too stupid. Did you try to get the media on this?
Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as
well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and
honor our egos can tolerate.
-------------------------------------[Robert Vaughn Young]-----
RolandRB
happened and will follow you picketers everywhere in the UK. "Free
speech" is all very well in the UK, so long as it doesn't offend
anybody who follows you around. I did warn on this newsgroup that this
would happen. So the Scientologists are free to spread their deception
and lies anywhere they like in the UK and anybody who opposes them
vocally or in writing has offended them and will be stopped by the
police. Hell, why not arrest them, charge them, take them to court and
jail them?
Maybe next time I am in the UK I will walk the main throughfares of
London wearing red horns, have a red tail and carry a red trident
around as a practising Satanist, escorted by the police, and be
offended at anybody who looks at me and points or laughs and have them
arrested by the police.
What has happened to the UK in the past few years makes me feel sick.
This newsgroup will be next. If any of you UK critics post anything
disparaging at all about Scientology from this day on, remember that
even the truth can offend. Expect a knock at the door from PC Plod
early one morning. Also expect a big expansion of the *religion* of
the *Church* of Scientology in the UK with more fortunes lost,
families torn apart, lives ruined and lives lost (Oh sorry! I just
thought that it might offend some of you Scientologists. Please accept
my apologies and accept my retraction of what I just wrote :o)) ).
Roland
Jens Tingleff <jens...@tingleff.org> wrote in message news:<cjobk...@news1.newsguy.com>...
RolandRB
> I am stunned. I want to come to UK and do some picketing, this
> is just too stupid. Did you try to get the media on this?
No more picketing for you in the UK, Andreas. You've had your last
picket there. Hell, if you do visit the UK then do not say the word
"Xenu" or "cult" within earshot of one of the Scientologists following
you around, let alone go near any of their fine *Churches* in the UK
or you will be arrested and deported back to the snowy wastes. That's
if they let you into the country at all.
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
RolandRB wrote:
> I was wondering when that would happen in the UK and now it has
> happened and will follow you picketers everywhere in the UK. "Free
> speech" is all very well in the UK, so long as it doesn't offend
> anybody who follows you around. I did warn on this newsgroup that this
> would happen.
Yeah. I was going to let you have the pleasure of pointing that out
yourself :-) ;-)
Best regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mdk Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"You can see he's talking about money, his lips go all wet" Lucy,
'Dreamchild'
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RolandRB
My original leaflet did not use the "c" word. I consider the original
leaflet to be better than the follow-ons.
Feisty
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello There!
>
> Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
> shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront from
> the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being called to
> order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to members of
> the $cientology religion.
They're distressed from not being able to peddle UFO tickets? How can the constable not
see the parallel?
>
> Well, now, would we do that??
>
> Why don't you judge for yourself..
>
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
>
> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as quickly
> as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of policing
> reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
>
> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word banned
> - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
L Ron Hubbard - "It's all a matter of accounting.."
Then what is the difference between harassment and freedom of speech? Has to be some
middle ground somewhere. Approaching other people does not constitute harassment just
because they think the clusters fly!
(Not to mention the loss of raw meat income). Of course they would try to use this as a
third party occasion.
>
> As we *do* want to "play nice" (yes, really, we do!!), we agreed to not have
> the word "Cult" and the word "Barmy" on the loudhailer. We went on
> "protesting *AGAINST* the $cientology organisation" and handing out
> leaflets.
>
> After some time, we were informed that we were not welcome within earshot of
> the $cientology shop. We hmm'ed and haw'ed and ambled a few hundred yards
> up to the big square and got ourselves a nice spot (by the Iron Man) where
> passers-by were stopping to look at the "pictures of the world" display.
> Nice, but not our first choice of location... We continued, going back to
> "protesting *AGAINST* the cult of $cientology" and handing out leaflets.
>
> After some time (not so much), a man in a suit was engaging in conversation
> with our two kindly police protectors (you do need protection by the police
> when protesting asgainst the $cientology cult, see
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/egrinstead0403_a.html ),
> and we were informned that using the word "cult" was not allowed in public,
> in case a member of the cult in question walked by and took offence. Or, as
> in our case, followed us around, taking offence. Guess what? We were
> required to stop with the C-word on the loudhailer.
>
> By this time, we were not surprised to see, after not so much time, the
> offended clam eagerly showing our leaflet to the police. Oh Dear, he might
> have been offended again! OOoops!! It did turn out that we could not hand
> out those leaflets in the centre of Birmingham in case someone was
> offended. We got this in writing, as we felt that this was pretty strong
> stuff and not something we had expected.
Wonder if harassment includes the fact that they will be sending everything they write
down into central command, and entered on a worldwide computer system? The same place
they keep people locked in a basement in conditions akin or worse than a sweat shop? That
the person who is "distressed" has to have special handling (at his or her own cost?)
because the "stats of raw meat coming in for the day" were affected? By talking to others
of a global scam? Jumping clusters! How does freedom of speech figures in?
>
> So, at the end, we were down to lecturing about the human right abuses by
> the criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology, e.g.
> relating the story of Lisa McPherson and how her family had cause to regret
> that the $cientololy goons were allowed to "care" for her after her nervous
> breakdown. http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
>
> We knocked off after the two hours we'd agreed with the police, and went for
> a light refreshment and a confab. While OSA had achieved more of their
> goals than we had of our goals, the new focus of the law on our activities
> could well be good in the long term in getting us thinking harder about
> what we do, when we do it and where we do it.
>
> So, a different day out was had by all and things won't be the same again...
A valiant effort. ARSCC (wnde) did a good job!
Feisty
realpch
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello There!
>
> Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
> shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront from
> the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being called to
> order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to members of
> the $cientology religion.
>
> Well, now, would we do that??
>
> Why don't you judge for yourself..
>
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
>
> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as quickly
> as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of policing
> reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
>
> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word banned
> - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
So the entire substance of the complaint had to do with using the word "cult"?
Well are the police supposed to decide what constitutes "offending any
religious people"?
> Hmmm.
>
> As we *do* want to "play nice" (yes, really, we do!!), we agreed to not have
> the word "Cult" and the word "Barmy" on the loudhailer. We went on
> "protesting *AGAINST* the $cientology organisation" and handing out
> leaflets.
Hmmmm. So you can't say "Barmy"???!!!!!
> After some time, we were informed that we were not welcome within earshot of
> the $cientology shop. We hmm'ed and haw'ed and ambled a few hundred yards
> up to the big square and got ourselves a nice spot (by the Iron Man) where
> passers-by were stopping to look at the "pictures of the world" display.
> Nice, but not our first choice of location... We continued, going back to
> "protesting *AGAINST* the cult of $cientology" and handing out leaflets.
>
> After some time (not so much), a man in a suit was engaging in conversation
> with our two kindly police protectors (you do need protection by the police
> when protesting asgainst the $cientology cult, see
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/egrinstead0403_a.html ),
> and we were informned that using the word "cult" was not allowed in public,
> in case a member of the cult in question walked by and took offence. Or, as
> in our case, followed us around, taking offence. Guess what? We were
> required to stop with the C-word on the loudhailer.
So now we've moved to not being able to say the word "cult" at all in
public? Did they give you a list of other proscribed words?
> By this time, we were not surprised to see, after not so much time, the
> offended clam eagerly showing our leaflet to the police. Oh Dear, he might
> have been offended again! OOoops!! It did turn out that we could not hand
> out those leaflets in the centre of Birmingham in case someone was
> offended. We got this in writing, as we felt that this was pretty strong
> stuff and not something we had expected.
Do you think perhaps you should be submitting your pamphlets to both the
police department and the Church of Scientology to get them vetted and
duly approved?
> So, at the end, we were down to lecturing about the human right abuses by
> the criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology, e.g.
> relating the story of Lisa McPherson and how her family had cause to regret
> that the $cientololy goons were allowed to "care" for her after her nervous
> breakdown. http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
Oh well, there *are* plenty of human rights abuse stories concerning the
Church of Scientology, are there not? But I'm really wondering if the
Xenu balloons are totally out of the picture. Do you think the Church of
Scientology could claim that they find any reference to that worthy offensive?
> We knocked off after the two hours we'd agreed with the police, and went for
> a light refreshment and a confab. While OSA had achieved more of their
> goals than we had of our goals, the new focus of the law on our activities
> could well be good in the long term in getting us thinking harder about
> what we do, when we do it and where we do it.
>
> So, a different day out was had by all and things won't be the same again...
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> PS On the way back from the demo, we passed the clam body-routers in the
> spot we had vacated. They were handing out leaflets. Good job we're not
> easily offended ;-)
Doggone good thing!
Peach
Lady Chatterly
realpch <rea...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Jens Tingleff wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hello There!
>>
>> Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
>> shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>>
>> We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront from
>> the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being called to
>> order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to members of
>> the $cientology religion.
>>
>> Well, now, would we do that??
>>
>> Why don't you judge for yourself..
>>
>> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
>>
>> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as quickly
>> as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of policing
>> reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
>>
>> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
>> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word banned
>> - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
>> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
>
>So the entire substance of the complaint had to do with using the word "cult"?
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial
reasons.
If you are planning for a year, sow rice; if you are planning for a
decade, plant trees; if you are planning for a lifetime, educate
people.
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> As we *do* want to "play nice" (yes, really, we do!!), we agreed to not have
>> the word "Cult" and the word "Barmy" on the loudhailer. We went on
>> "protesting *AGAINST* the $cientology organisation" and handing out
>> leaflets.
>
>Hmmmm. So you can't say "Barmy"???!!!!!
!
>> After some time, we were informed that we were not welcome within earshot of
>> the $cientology shop. We hmm'ed and haw'ed and ambled a few hundred yards
>> up to the big square and got ourselves a nice spot (by the Iron Man) where
>> passers-by were stopping to look at the "pictures of the world" display.
>> Nice, but not our first choice of location... We continued, going back to
>> "protesting *AGAINST* the cult of $cientology" and handing out leaflets.
>>
>> After some time (not so much), a man in a suit was engaging in conversation
>> with our two kindly police protectors (you do need protection by the police
>> when protesting asgainst the $cientology cult, see
>> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/muslinger/egrinstead0403_a.html ),
>> and we were informned that using the word "cult" was not allowed in public,
>> in case a member of the cult in question walked by and took offence. Or, as
>> in our case, followed us around, taking offence. Guess what? We were
>> required to stop with the C-word on the loudhailer.
>
>So now we've moved to not being able to say the word "cult" at all in
>public? Did they give you a list of other proscribed words?
They say opposites attract. I hope you meet someone who is
good-looking, intelligent, and cultured.
>> By this time, we were not surprised to see, after not so much time, the
>> offended clam eagerly showing our leaflet to the police. Oh Dear, he might
>> have been offended again! OOoops!! It did turn out that we could not hand
>> out those leaflets in the centre of Birmingham in case someone was
>> offended. We got this in writing, as we felt that this was pretty strong
>> stuff and not something we had expected.
>
>Do you think perhaps you should be submitting your pamphlets to both the
>police department and the Church of Scientology to get them vetted and
>duly approved?
>
>> So, at the end, we were down to lecturing about the human right abuses by
>> the criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology, e.g.
>> relating the story of Lisa McPherson and how her family had cause to regret
>> that the $cientololy goons were allowed to "care" for her after her nervous
>> breakdown. http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
>
>Oh well, there *are* plenty of human rights abuse stories concerning the
>Church of Scientology, are there not? But I'm really wondering if the
>Xenu balloons are totally out of the picture. Do you think the Church of
>Scientology could claim that they find any reference to that worthy offensive?
Are you anxious you are really wondering if the xenu balloons am
totally out of the picture?
>> We knocked off after the two hours we'd agreed with the police, and went for
>> a light refreshment and a confab. While OSA had achieved more of their
>> goals than we had of our goals, the new focus of the law on our activities
>> could well be good in the long term in getting us thinking harder about
>> what we do, when we do it and where we do it.
>>
>> So, a different day out was had by all and things won't be the same again...
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> PS On the way back from the demo, we passed the clam body-routers in the
>> spot we had vacated. They were handing out leaflets. Good job we're not
>> easily offended ;-)
>
>Doggone good thing!
Your rapid succession of dour advice to all and sundry has taken a
toll on the nerves of those with good taste and decency. The insipid
>Peach
He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle.
--
Lady Chatterly
"haven't you got a gardener to molest somewhere?" -- Vampi Fangs
Dave Bird
Lund - www. xenu. net <hel...@online.no> writes:
>I am stunned. I want to come to UK and do some picketing, this
>is just too stupid. Did you try to get the media on this?
It has only just started this demo. We are working on that,
and other angles. Why not come over and enjoy the hospitality
of our wonderful British police service :-> ?
For more details see:
In article<cjobk...@news1.newsguy.com>, Jens Tingleff writes:
>Subject: Protest against the $cientology cult, Birmingham, UK, 2nd Oct 2004
>
>Hello There!
>Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
>shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
--
FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
|n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed
.................................................................
A society without a religion is like a maniac without a chainsaw.
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Lady Chatterly" <rea...@catcher.in.the.rye> wrote in message
news:6b694e6....@chatterly.newsfeed.slurp.net...
Which of course has nothing to do with Scientology, which is filled with
purposeful liars, pretenders and wannabes. As evidenced by this valence's
rotating email address that plagiarizes "Catcher in the Rye", a book written
by a real writer (as opposed to L. Ron Hubbard, who had to invent a
mind-control cult to worship him just in order to appear "respected").
Do you know anyone else who hides behind a ufo mind-control cult?
<mindless generated bit snipped>
>
> >> Hmmm.
> >>
> >> As we *do* want to "play nice" (yes, really, we do!!), we agreed to not
have
> >> the word "Cult" and the word "Barmy" on the loudhailer. We went on
> >> "protesting *AGAINST* the $cientology organisation" and handing out
> >> leaflets.
> >
> >Hmmmm. So you can't say "Barmy"???!!!!!
>
<single-syllable mindless generated bit snipped>
<additional mindless generated bit snipped>
Have you ever known anyone else who has problems with "Xenu" balloons?
> >> We knocked off after the two hours we'd agreed with the police, and
went for
> >> a light refreshment and a confab. While OSA had achieved more of their
> >> goals than we had of our goals, the new focus of the law on our
activities
> >> could well be good in the long term in getting us thinking harder about
> >> what we do, when we do it and where we do it.
> >>
> >> So, a different day out was had by all and things won't be the same
again...
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >>
> >> Jens
> >>
> >> PS On the way back from the demo, we passed the clam body-routers in
the
> >> spot we had vacated. They were handing out leaflets. Good job we're not
> >> easily offended ;-)
> >
> >Doggone good thing!
>
> Your rapid succession of dour advice to all and sundry has taken a
> toll on the nerves of those with good taste and decency. The insipid
Mouth got full of rice and beans huh? First meal in a few days, huh? Go
figure.
> He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle.
You on the other hand have less "depth" than a petri dish. Have you ever
known anyone else who had no substance?
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "Scientology...is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion."
* - L. Ron Hubbard's "Creation of Human Ability" p251
*
* "This volume probably contains more promises and less evidence per page
than has any publication since the invention of printing."
* - Review of "Dianetics", Scientific American, 1951
*
* "Better than 90 percent of what my father has written about himself is
untrue."
* - Ron deWolf, son of L. Ron Hubbard
*
* "Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's 1984? Yes,yes, that's
wonderful. That would be--------could be the palest imagined shadow of what
a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with
no remedy in existence."
* - L Ron Hubbard's Philidelphia Docterate Course tape 20 (edited out)
ida j. camburn
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello There!
>
> Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
> shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>
> We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront from
> the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being called to
> order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to members of
> the $cientology religion.
>
> Well, now, would we do that??
>
> Why don't you judge for yourself..
>
> http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
Just read your post and had I not read the location I would have
thought you
were posting from Hwy 79 in front of Golden Era Productions. They have
an
injunction (which is still in force I think) keeping our sps from
picketing
out on the highway. I suggest that they picket down town Hemet in
front of
the mall. The locals need to know the truth and few here in this old
retirement
town have a clue as to who their 'neighbors' are and None realize it
is worse than they think. Keep us posted on your next picket and good
luck.
Ida Camburn
Phil Scott
"RolandRB" <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:52970945.04100...@posting.google.com...
You have wonderful new approaches in the works I am sure...
in any event the Church of the Rubber Chicken will enter the
arena.... get yer rubber chicken now. We will have shrines
and all that. Opperating policy, ethics orifices,
scriptures...the works.
We will sue Kentucky fried for descration of our
relatives...and try to team up with the scientologists with
our services right next to thier orgs...we are all on the same
team after all.... the Church of the Rubber Chicken will show
up where ever there are lie detectors...or others interested
in clearing the planet.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
"Feisty" <su...@skytoday.com> wrote in message
news:%pd8d.11484$FY4...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
This latest attempt to quash free speech will end in
complete disaster for the criminal cult... expose of thier
tactic alone will bring in a host of new pissed off critics
There are 15 dozen ways around such dumb ass attempts to
stifle discussion.... Just a few guys walking by silently
slinging rubber chickens overhead would be enough of a clue
for the general public. It will be hard to get a law passed
prohibiting ones walking down the street with a rubber chicken
....
ah yes... front page noooz. "Man arrested for walking on
sidewalk waiving rubber chicken.. Scientologists offended"
You cant buy PR like that.
Phil Scott
Dave Bird
<rolan...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> > In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as
>> > quickly as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of
>> > policing reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
>> >
>> > In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
>> > to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word
>> > banned - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
>> > ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
>> >
>>
>> Ah, a slight error. The banned leaflet was
>>
>> http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf
>>
>> which has an offensive word on it - oh dear!
>
>My original leaflet did not use the "c" word. I consider the original
>leaflet to be better than the follow-ons.
Then we go back to the original.
By the way, I owe you an apology on this: I did not think the
law would take it to an insane degree, and it has. You were right,
I was wrong.
Dave Bird
Maybe he wants to come here and be arrested.
>That's
>if they let you into the country at all.
--
Dave Bird
<su...@skytoday.com> writes:
>
>"Jens Tingleff" <jens...@tingleff.org> wrote in message
>news:cjobk...@news1.newsguy.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hello There!
>>
>> Five protesters braved the weather forecast and descended on the Birmingham
>> shop of the criminal cult known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology.
>>
>> We were expecting a nice, normal, demo with the usual lack of confront from
>> the clams; little did we know that within minutes we were being called to
>> order by the police and required not to cause any "distress" to members of
>> the $cientology religion.
>
>They're distressed from not being able to peddle UFO tickets? How can the
>constable not
>see the parallel?
Because the Home Secretary and the Parliament are insane. They make
the laws, police just enforce them.
Dave Bird
>> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as quickly
>> as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of policing
>> reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
>>
>> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
>> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word banned
>> - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
>> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
>
>
>So the entire substance of the complaint had to do with using the word "cult"?
(1) shouting the word "cult"
(2) shouting the word "barmy" or insane
(3) something on a placard [probably "cheat" or "dishonest"].
(4) issuing a leaflet with the word "cult", even to 3rd parties
(5) shouting any critical message within earshot of their building
Phil Scott
"Dave Bird" <dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in
message news:PMuRGOB6...@xemu.demon.co.uk...
You could design a test case that would prevail in court...
maybe you could start a small claims court level ... that
wouldnt cost anything and could easily establish a precident
the police would have to recognise.
Or you could adopt Ted Mayett's blank picket sign post and be
silent...that apparently worked like gang busters. A rubber
chicken totum would communicate well too... you could invite
the press to see if the police will arrest you for having a
rubber chicken in public.
It go entirely and utterly south from there.... :)
Phil Scott
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Phil Scott" <philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:H8l8d.6463$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
True, but in this particular case one can't help but wonder that the alleged
"anti-hate-speech" law hasn't been capriciously interpreted by an ignorant
Head Constable (or a Scientologically-compromised one), causing the
imitation coppers known as "Neighborhood Police" - from the looks of the
dayglo-vested folks in the photos Jens put online - to be sent out.
One might wonder if there have been inroads made by the cult into the lesser
squads of not-really-PCs who only have the power to give out tickets.
Perhaps via the so-called Drug Free Marshall program? Hey, since when have
the police been immune to being duped by the tricks of a Scientologist or
two?
Think about it! Do you think these Neighborhood pseudo-cops receive a whit
of the training full constables do? Hell, no. They're not necessarily
recruited through the same channels, I'd wager.
In any event in all cases during pickets where such provocations have taken
place (if the posts here are any measure), simple engaging of the
officers-in-question and explanation of the truth and legal facts of the
issue should have solved the problem of the clams screaming "hate crime" and
"bigot". Isn't the UK a country where they're not a "religion" as far as
the courts are concerned, anyway?
I've little doubt that most PCs would have to have the difference between
"secular" and "religious" explained to them, unless they're steeped in this
kind of conflict (and even then one wonders). What if the simple act of
explaining this and how it applies to Scientology is sufficient to diffuse
this otherwise official stance, that now most likely requires a
letter-writing campaign, which most likely leads to a leaked list and Black
Ops by the cult, which leads to more negative publicity for the Scientology
cult.
Just my 2p.
--
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* "Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's 1984? Yes,yes, that's
wonderful. That would be--------could be the palest imagined shadow of what
a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with
no remedy in existence."
* - L Ron Hubbard's Philidelphia Docterate Course tape 20 (edited out)
Phil Scott
> In article<416170CA...@aol.com>, realpch
<rea...@aol.com> writes:
> >> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the
police as quickly
> >> as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour
of policing
> >> reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
> >>
> >> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology
recruiting field, down
> >> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had
the C word banned
> >> - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> >> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm )
after police demands.
> >
> >
> >So the entire substance of the complaint had to do with
using the word "cult"?
>
> (1) shouting the word "cult"
>
> (2) shouting the word "barmy" or insane
>
> (3) something on a placard [probably "cheat" or
"dishonest"].
>
> (4) issuing a leaflet with the word "cult", even to 3rd
parties
>
> (5) shouting any critical message within earshot of their
building
Well then you need a gloriously well written and ultra
respectful flier detailing thier extensive criminal record,
and affidavits from ex members etc... and quotes from
judges...if you present those quietly and respectfully while
holding a large floppy rubber chicken aloft on a red pole....
you will get plenty of people educated.
The cult can then complain that its illegal to carry a large
floppy rubber chicken aloft on a public street...you can
request a court hearing on that issue of your free speech and
the chicken lobby for chicken rights everywhere.... and its
also a spiritual religious thing.
Supressing religion is against the law.
Phil Scott
realpch
>
> In article<416170CA...@aol.com>, realpch <rea...@aol.com> writes:
> >> In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as quickly
> >> as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of policing
> >> reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
> >>
> >> In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
> >> to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word banned
> >> - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> >> ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
> >
> >
> >So the entire substance of the complaint had to do with using the word "cult"?
>
> (1) shouting the word "cult"
>
> (2) shouting the word "barmy" or insane
>
> (3) something on a placard [probably "cheat" or "dishonest"].
>
> (4) issuing a leaflet with the word "cult", even to 3rd parties
>
> (5) shouting any critical message within earshot of their building
I'm sure you clever fellows will cook up an effective alternative
presentation. You could carry placards proclaiming it to be "A
Politically Correct & Entirely Unoffensive Protest Against the Church of Scientology".
: )
Peach
RolandRB
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> RolandRB wrote:
>
> > I was wondering when that would happen in the UK and now it has
> > happened and will follow you picketers everywhere in the UK. "Free
> > speech" is all very well in the UK, so long as it doesn't offend
> > anybody who follows you around. I did warn on this newsgroup that this
> > would happen.
>
> Yeah. I was going to let you have the pleasure of pointing that out
> yourself :-) ;-)
>
> Best regards
>
> Jens
"Free speech" is all very well and this is guaranteed to each and all
of us here in Yerp. But this right to free speech has to be combined
with the prudence to never exercise that right.
RolandRB
> In article<52970945.04100...@posting.google.com>, RolandRB
> <rolan...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> > In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as
> >> > quickly as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of
> >> > policing reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
> >> >
> >> > In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
> >> > to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word
> >> > banned - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> >> > ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Ah, a slight error. The banned leaflet was
> >>
> >> http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf
> >>
> >> which has an offensive word on it - oh dear!
> >
> >My original leaflet did not use the "c" word. I consider the original
> >leaflet to be better than the follow-ons.
>
> Then we go back to the original.
>
> By the way, I owe you an apology on this: I did not think the
> law would take it to an insane degree, and it has. You were right,
> I was wrong.
I take a bow.
RolandRB
> <rolan...@hotmail.com> writes:
> >> > In fact, we strove to comply with the requirements of the police as
> >> > quickly as new demands were made of us - quite a whirlwind tour of
> >> > policing reacting to new and more offended clams by the minute ;-)
> >> >
> >> > In the end, we were moved away from the $cientology recruiting field, down
> >> > to saying "Protesting *AGAINST* scientology" - having had the C word
> >> > banned - - and had stopped distributing the XENU leaflet
> >> > ( http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm ) after police demands.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Ah, a slight error. The banned leaflet was
> >>
> >> http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf
> >>
> >> which has an offensive word on it - oh dear!
> >
> >My original leaflet did not use the "c" word. I consider the original
> >leaflet to be better than the follow-ons.
>
> Then we go back to the original.
You haven't quite got it yet but I am sure you will in the next few
weeks or months an so will the others. You are no longer going to be
able to protest the Church of Scientology in the UK in any form. It
will *offend* that small religious group. You could try making it pure
truth and no opinion - for example that Insider story from the RPF -
and give those out in the streets a mile away from the Scientology
orgs but *that* would offend the Scientologists who have followed you
there. You could try mass-leafletting of homes and offices in the area
with your factual-only leaflets but that again would *offend* the
members of that small religious group.
If I were you I would take down your web site with immediate effect
and only put it back when you are certain there is nothing on it that
could *offend* any members of a certain small religious group. That
includes some of your ascii art featuring small crustaceans.
> By the way, I owe you an apology on this: I did not think the
> law would take it to an insane degree, and it has. You were right,
> I was wrong.
I'll make another prediction - if you lot don't stop the pickets and
stop leafletting in any form and remove all critical stuff of small
religious groups from your UK web sites then one or more of you will
be arrested.
RolandRB
I doubt there will be another picket of the small religious group of
Scientology in the UK as protesting a religious group is effectively
now illegal. "Luck" they will need aplenty if they try it again.
RolandRB
But the members of that small religious group may still be offended.
About the only thing left to the UK picketers is to give out "Way to
Happiness" booklets.
It's a shame as I thought the UK picket actions were the best done in
the world and had a very major effect on that small religious group in
reducing the number of members. But it is all over now.
Rev. Desertphile de Rothschild
>Just read your post and had I not read the location I would have
>thought you were posting from Hwy 79 in front of Golden Era
>Productions. They have an injunction (which is still in force
>I think) keeping our sps from picketing out on the highway. I
>suggest that they picket down town Hemet in front of the mall.
>The locals need to know the truth and few here in this old
>retirement town have a clue as to who their 'neighbors' are
>and None realize it is worse than they think. Keep us posted
>on your next picket and good luck.
As far as I know, only one person is injoined against picketing and
protesting Scientology Inc.'s crimes and human rights abuses at "Gold
Base." How were all human rights activists been prevented from
picketing?
>Ida Camburn
---
RE-ELECT PRESIDENT GORE IN 2004
M Holmes
> You haven't quite got it yet but I am sure you will in the next few
> weeks or months an so will the others. You are no longer going to be
> able to protest the Church of Scientology in the UK in any form. It
> will *offend* that small religious group.
I don't get it: surely Al Queda are a religious group and folks calling
them "terrorists" is bound to offend them. How about polytheists being
ofended at folks who claim there's only one god when clearly there are
thousands of 'em. It's kinda hard to see how any "Right to not be
offended" could possibly work in practice.
Maybe it's time to start a Freedom of Speech Religion so that we can be
offended by censorship...
FoFP
realpch
I believe the sight of Dave Bird handing out "Way to Happiness" booklets
would be enough to give great pause to many a member of a small
religious group.
> It's a shame as I thought the UK picket actions were the best done in
> the world and had a very major effect on that small religious group in
> reducing the number of members. But it is all over now.
It is a shame. Every law engineered to address a particular situation is
always taken advantage of by opportunists.
Peach
Phil Scott
The Church of the Rubber chicken can not be stopped.
Phil Scott
Oh puleeze Roland... you and dave would go by there, dave
pushing a wheel barrow full of his garbage on the way to
delivering it a disposal..you could be with him with your huge
floppy rubber chicken atop a long red pole, with blank sign
attached...with Jens playing stars and stripes forever on his
tuba.
If you are stopped the London Daily headline would read "NO
Rubber Chickens allowed near Scientology Headquarters"....
Phil Scott
The Last Liberal
<fo...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>In uk.politics.censorship RolandRB <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> You haven't quite got it yet but I am sure you will in the next few
>> weeks or months an so will the others. You are no longer going to be
>> able to protest the Church of Scientology in the UK in any form. It
>> will *offend* that small religious group.
>I don't get it: surely Al Queda are a religious group and folks calling
>them "terrorists" is bound to offend them. How about polytheists being
>ofended at folks who claim there's only one god when clearly there are
>thousands of 'em. It's kinda hard to see how any "Right to not be
>offended" could possibly work in practice.
>
>Maybe it's time to start a Freedom of Speech Religion so that we can be
>offended by censorship...
There must be hundreds of Christian preachers in the United Kingdom
that vocally and literarily OFFEND Pagans, neo-Pagans, Muslims, Jews,
and Satanists every Sunday at the pulpit, in newsletters, on
television, and on the radio. Is this sick, insane, abusie law being
applied to these?
>FoFP
--
"Terrorism" isn't the enemy: George W Bush is!
David G. Bell
fo...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk "M Holmes" wrote:
I recall reading a biography of a certain writer and religious leader
which made reference to various official inquiries and hearings as to
the activities of the organisations he founded.
While these reports may now be decades out of date, and the organisation
may have changed since its founders death, it might be worth a letter to
the relevant Chief Constable, citing these reports and querying whether
the officers involved in policing that district are fully aware of whom
they might be dealing with.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."
Ted Mayett
http://www.spaink.net/cos/arspost/980222.html
"Alternatively I suggest we do some body-routing of our own.
Kalverstraat, usual corner, actually asking people to go to the org
and take a free personality test, but with the consumer information
that we think the CoS should provide: "free personality test, cheap
course, cheap book, you will need another course, the bridge to
freedom, it will cost you some years and a few hundred thousand
guilders, you will learn everything about the extraterrestrials in
volcanoes, presumably you will be able to move matter and move in
space and time with the power of your will, please now, why not give
it a try?" If anyone accepts, we really direct them to the org. Tell
me please, could the CoS possibly object to us doing their job? To
helping them out for the good cause? Hardly."
But then this was always my approach here in Vegas. I'd be picketing,
people would ask me, 'what is scientology?' And I would tell them to
go into the org and ask what it is. Meantime my Price sign said it
all.
This new UK law, if it were in the States, would probably have me out
there picketing again.
It would seem that things will be difficult now for picketing the cult
in the UK... but only difficult and not impossible. Although, being
made to move away from the org.... I would not have moved away, never.
I would have left entirely or been arrested. I don't even know how
that can be overcome now.
I'm not in the UK doing pickets with a crowd of people, but if I
were... At the next picket I would be fully prepared for an arrest.
But, at the same time, I would not be calling them murderers by
mentioning Lisa, I would not be ridiculing their religion by
mentioning Xenu. I would not mention RPF or anything, anything at all
except Prices.
If I were there to begin with, and was going out there again prepared
to be arrested, I would want a picketing theme that the Press could
easily comment about. Which would be Prices. But not just any
prices. I would do only hard prices, the prices of Materials.
They give this to us on a silver platter. They print these things in
their materials, they list them on their web sites. They are
undeniable, irrefutable.
These idiots sell 447 cassettes, CASSETTES, for $11,750 USD.
18 books for $2,500. They have a Dictionary for $125.
I've held off on commenting on this until now, but it just came to me
what approach *I* would take in the UK these days.
I'd be out there, with a picket sign, demanding and requesting a
larger discount for Members on things like the SHSBC cassette package.
Right now Members get a 20% discount, and that's nice. My picket sign
would request a 25% discount for Members on books and cassettes.
And now let the Police come along. Well I'd explain to the Police
that I am morally obligated to do this, what I'm doing now. That
Scientology is the only answer to the current dwindling society that
we have. And that Members are the best people on the planet, that
they want to do good things, and that I am trying to make Prices lower
so that they can purchase the life saving technology of L. Ron
Hubbard. and etc. etc.
And I would probably be arrested, no question of this. But I'd only
be arrested once. For after all, what is it really that I am saying
out there?
Now, this is all well and good to type as an arm-chair warrior. But
would I really do this? Would I go back out to Birmingham knowing
that I would be probably be arrested? Well the fact is I might
actually do just that, as long as I had someone ready to bail me out
quickly. But, me, I wouldn't go out there again singing some silly
Xenu song or a Lisa song or something like that.
I'd want something for my arrest, I'd want good publicity. And so I'd
need a theme that the Press could comment on, which would be the
undeniable Price. And you carry this even further and consumers
complaining about high prices is nothing new and etc.
And if you think about 4 or 5 people or so outside an org asking for
lower prices for materials... it could be interesting.
It comes down to why are you people actually picketing, what is it
that you actually want? In any Country having freedom of speech, we
would all have our hero's. Men and women that have suffered and given
their lives over the years so that we today do have freedom of speech.
But do you picket for freedom of speech, or to put a foolish cult out
of business is the question. And if it is to rid your city of what
you believe is a serious blemish then a change of tactics will be
certainly be required.
But you folks lost that first skirmish badly, horribly. You should
never have moved away from the org, you should have left entirely.
But you didn't do that, and now you have to work to overcome that bad
opening to this thing. And have no illusions about this either. You
were chased away, and you ran away. They got rid of you, they won.
So what's next? Perhaps a different org this time, or back to
Birmingham and prepare for an arrest. Now when it comes to being
arrested, the UK cannot be any different than the States or Germany,
Australia, anyplace like this. The Police will be just as happy
arresting one picketer as all the picketers. They would actually be
happier if they could get away with doing only one arrest, less
paperwork. So you folks need to decide who will be arrested if it
comes to that. And I guarantee you that if I were out there with a
few other people, and if arrests were going to be made, that I and
only I would get arrested and the other people would walk away.
Police are easy to deal with in a way, you just have to get to the one
in Charge at the moment, get him or her off to the side to work things
out, and then only you get arrested. They can assume, the Police can
assume you are all an organized group with a leader. And you can let
them assume that, just never confirm that if questioned.
But life is short, time is valuable. Why would you people go back out
there knowing the odds favor an arrest taking place? Perhaps just put
those picket signs in a closet for a few months until this new law is
settled or tossed out totally. There is no scientology presence
anymore in the UK, there really is nothing worth spending time in jail
and court anymore.
But someone, or a few people, will challenge this new UK law in Court.
Will it be you folks and scientology that make the headlines? And if
so, it really would be swell if your picket signs/theme could have
publicity. And the Press cannot really grab onto that song of Xenu or
Lisa or the RPF.
So why are you picketing? They have put you to the test now, you are
in the spotlight, what are your real motivations?
What else is funny is that way back in 1996 I settled in personally
with the Price sign/theme. I knew even back then that ridiculing
their religious beliefs, xenu, or calling them murderers, Lisa, would
be the wrong thing to do. Not necessarily wrong, but that they would
be themes that could well be challenged intelligently in Court. But
my motivations for picketing were pure and clean. All I ever wanted
to do was to put them out of business here in this city. :)
It is an interesting world with interesting people. And what will the
UK crowd display in the future, it will be interesting to see this. A
bunch of clowns maybe that want a legal activity like Disconnection
made illegal for scientology only? Clever people that make up new
Xenu songs. Never mind that a xenu song is no less distasteful than
making a mockery of something like the Immaculate Conception thing in
Christianity. People calling scientologists murderers and having at
the same time no court cases with convictions for these murders.
I've spent a lot of time typing this, and I don't know that it will
mean anything. From where I sit, and you know I read *all* the picket
reports, but from here it looks like a momentum of sorts is
established in the UK, by the UK crowd. I'm not so sure you people
there can change gears, but I hope you can. Because if you don't the
legal system will chew you up and spit you out without missing a beat.
You see what is inescapable is that you people moved the picket away
from the org. I don't even know what to say about that. I just know
that I would have had to have been arrested, or would have left
totally. If you go back, you can't move away again, you just cannot
do that, it just can't be done. When you moved away, at that moment
you became a group of bullies taunting children in a school yard. You
"admitted" that you were not there out of a strong moral belief, but
only there to taunt and harass.
OTOH, while you lost that first skirmish horribly, you could maybe
turn it all around... we shall see.
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
Mark Thorson
> I'm sure you clever fellows will cook up an effective alternative
> presentation. You could carry placards proclaiming it to be "A
> Politically Correct & Entirely Unoffensive Protest Against the Church of Scientology".
How about:
"The Freest People On Earth Aren't Allowed To Read This Sign"
or:
"Reading This Sign Is An Overt -- Report To Ethics Immediately"
Zinj
tedm...@despammed.com says...
<snip>
> You see what is inescapable is that you people moved the picket away
> from the org. I don't even know what to say about that. I just know
> that I would have had to have been arrested, or would have left
> totally. If you go back, you can't move away again, you just cannot
> do that, it just can't be done. When you moved away, at that moment
> you became a group of bullies taunting children in a school yard. You
> "admitted" that you were not there out of a strong moral belief, but
> only there to taunt and harass.
>
> OTOH, while you lost that first skirmish horribly, you could maybe
> turn it all around... we shall see.
>
> --
> Ted Mayett OT 1.1
> http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
All interesting thought, some of which I agree with, some of which I
don't.
Most difficult from a US vantage is to translate the legal situation,
since there is no 'bill of rights' to call on (although it can also be
compromised here.)
Specifically, the 'restraining order/injunction' 'shown' to Graham has
never been verified as actually existing, so it's hard to draw any
conclusion about its 'content' or scope or applicability.
Keith, of course, was railroaded on completely different terms, since it
required only perjured testimony that his mere presence 'intimidated'
the denizens of 'Gold' into 'perceiving' threats of violence, whether
there were any or not. In a way it was a repeat and expansion of the
earlier 'restraining order' obtained by Glen Barton, who claimed 'fear'
ad then was lugged around the LA venues like a magic talisman to banish
the evil spirit.
But even so, it's more difficult to implement such shennanigans in the
US, with the exception of Riverside County apparently, and possibly
Clearwater.
The UK is a different kettle of squid, and I'd hope that some research
is being done to find other victims of this latest affront to freedom os
Speech (which is not a guaranteed right), and yes, sometimes willingness
to be arrested might be the price of testing the law. Hopefully others
are doing so too.
In the meantime, and tactically speaking, sure, complaining about prices
sounds like a reasonable place to 'test the water', and determine the
trigger points. As it happens, I don't particularly care about prices,
but it's a legitimate beef, and harder to claim 'offense' about.
Even better I think however might be another tactic. Scientology has a
long history in the UK courts, and there are numerous statements by the
court about *many* aspects of the evil of Scientology that go far beyond
'price'.
I think that picketing with flyers and signs taken directly from Court
opinions would be even *less* objectionable in a 'legal sense', and make
for a far stronger case in case of an arrest.
Would a UK court convict for quoting a UK court?
Sure, the clams would be offended. They *specialize* in being offended.
The only thing that *won't* offend them is 100% compliance; and there
might be arrests.
But court opinion seems to me to be a good choice.
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Dave Bird
We may have to go that far, if we now live in a police state.
-- . . : : ,; . : ' ___.
uno, dos, tres, |FUEGO| .:. .:. .:': :' .:':' :. . : (") #oH|
' ' :' : :' : .::. H_ ~~~|
< > __ ,;;,. \\::// R_) |
'-|"""(") {__}::===== ....'''' ' ' ' ___..\||/....L\. ...|
____||--|_'--/__\___ '' .--''':::::::::::::::::::::
\ / /////////////S.Coronado/////
;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^
LRonHubbard is shelled byGoats inHell.READ http://www.ronthewarhero.org
Dave Bird
<db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> I don't get it: surely Al Queda are a religious group and folks calling
>> them "terrorists" is bound to offend them. How about polytheists being
>> ofended at folks who claim there's only one god when clearly there are
>> thousands of 'em. It's kinda hard to see how any "Right to not be
>> offended" could possibly work in practice.
>>
>> Maybe it's time to start a Freedom of Speech Religion so that we can be
>> offended by censorship...
>
>I recall reading a biography of a certain writer and religious leader
>which made reference to various official inquiries and hearings as to
>the activities of the organisations he founded.
Could you clarify what you are talking about in plain terms.
>
>While these reports may now be decades out of date, and the organisation
>may have changed since its founders death, it might be worth a letter to
>the relevant Chief Constable, citing these reports and querying whether
>the officers involved in policing that district are fully aware of whom
>they might be dealing with.
--
Dave Bird
Yeah, I'm waiting to hear back from the lawyers.
>maybe you could start a small claims court level ... that
>wouldnt cost anything and could easily establish a precident
>the police would have to recognise.
>
>Or you could adopt Ted Mayett's blank picket sign post and be
>silent...
I've thought of tactics of that type.
>that apparently worked like gang busters. A rubber
>chicken totum would communicate well too... you could invite
>the press to see if the police will arrest you for having a
>rubber chicken in public.
>
>It go entirely and utterly south from there.... :)
>
>
>
>Phil Scott
>
>
We are looking into other tactics of this type. It is too
soon to commit until the replies are in.
In article<vFm8d.6505$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, Phil Scott
<philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net> writes:
>Well then you need a gloriously well written and ultra
>respectful flier detailing thier extensive criminal record,
>and affidavits from ex members etc... and quotes from
>judges...if you present those quietly and respectfully while
>holding a large floppy rubber chicken aloft on a red pole....
>you will get plenty of people educated.
>
>The cult can then complain that its illegal to carry a large
>floppy rubber chicken aloft on a public street...you can
>request a court hearing on that issue of your free speech and
>the chicken lobby for chicken rights everywhere.... and its
>also a spiritual religious thing.
>
>Supressing religion is against the law.
As I say, we're looking into it.
Dave Bird
<fo...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> writes:
>In uk.politics.censorship RolandRB <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You haven't quite got it yet but I am sure you will in the next few
>> weeks or months an so will the others. You are no longer going to be
>> able to protest the Church of Scientology in the UK in any form. It
>> will *offend* that small religious group.
>
>I don't get it: surely Al Queda are a religious group and folks calling
>them "terrorists" is bound to offend them. How about polytheists being
>ofended at folks who claim there's only one god when clearly there are
>thousands of 'em. It's kinda hard to see how any "Right to not be
>offended" could possibly work in practice.
It's insane. But SO FAR it does not extend to newspaper or t.v.
censorship, only if the person is present and takes offense at
what happens in their presence.
>
>Maybe it's time to start a Freedom of Speech Religion so that we can be
>offended by censorship...
In article<2sg2r5F...@uni-berlin.de>, The Last Liberal
<deser...@cchr.ws> writes:
>
>There must be hundreds of Christian preachers in the United Kingdom
>that vocally and literarily OFFEND Pagans, neo-Pagans, Muslims, Jews,
>and Satanists every Sunday at the pulpit, in newsletters, on
>television, and on the radio. Is this sick, insane, abusie law being
>applied to these?
Probably not, only those who spend a lot of money on bent lawyers
to corrupt the interpretation of the law.
So far they would have to BE THERE to be offended, and make a complaint
John
It would behoove the next lot of picketers to get some legal advice before
they picket again. Let's see if an actual lawyer thinks they will be
arrested.
Phil Scott
"John" <ju...@junk.com> wrote in message
news:ck03km$8ts$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
I think they can and might well be arrested for taunting
within ear shot...but I dont think the police commissioner
would be dumb enough to try to arrest them for quietly
presenting court documents and the like... or merely walking
by with rubber chickens on long poles ...or towing Duke the
dog....and answering any questions the public might have.
Then later at a different distant location, regardless of who
is tracking them doing a full expose on the criminal nature of
the cult of scientology.
Phil Scott
>
>
>
>
RolandRB
But they must be careful not to offend one of the
small-religious-groupies who are following them around. No "c" word.
No "U*O" word. Nothing in a leaflet they may object to like "X***"
which is like a swear word to them. Nothing saying they harm people as
that would be "stirring up religious hatred".
Phil Scott
You need to adopt a more helpful attitude then... see if you
can help the scientologits by sending care packages to these
sent off to prison... or maybe with some kind of skin lotions,
food or roach killer traps or syringes for use with anyone
strapped to a bed or held at the Gold base...help with burial
arrangements etc...or maybe even money so they can send PI's
after the suppressive parents of the members.
There are many things you can do besides being an ASSHOLE
Roland.
Yer attitude is ALL rong . If you joined with me in the
Church of the Rubber Chicken you wouldnt be having those
problems.
Phil Scott
Dave Bird
writes:
>> But the members of that small religious group may still be offended.
>> About the only thing left to the UK picketers is to give out "Way to
>> Happiness" booklets.
>>
>> It's a shame as I thought the UK picket actions were the best done in
>> the world and had a very major effect on that small religious group in
>> reducing the number of members. But it is all over now.
>
>
>It would behoove the next lot of picketers to get some legal advice before
>they picket again. Let's see if an actual lawyer thinks they will be
>arrested.
We're awaiting a response from the lawyers.
RolandRB
> In article<ck03km$8ts$1...@otis.netspace.net.au>, John <ju...@junk.com>
> writes:
> >> But the members of that small religious group may still be offended.
> >> About the only thing left to the UK picketers is to give out "Way to
> >> Happiness" booklets.
> >>
> >> It's a shame as I thought the UK picket actions were the best done in
> >> the world and had a very major effect on that small religious group in
> >> reducing the number of members. But it is all over now.
> >
> >
> >It would behoove the next lot of picketers to get some legal advice before
> >they picket again. Let's see if an actual lawyer thinks they will be
> >arrested.
>
> We're awaiting a response from the lawyers.
Don't forget that you will have been stitched up by the CoS in the UK.
This will be a long and well-thought out action based on the
advantages this new law gives them. It won't be just Birmingham. And
there is this new law that anybody can be snatched from the streets of
England on the say-so of the US and shipped out to a country where
they can be held indefinitely and tortured. Let me see, the UK critics
are "associates" of Keith Henson, the well known weapons scientist and
fugitive from justice. The one who was just stopped in time before
sending a cruise missile into Gold base. Maybe has Al Queda
connections. You go picketing with a "Boom" box. Hmmmm.... Did Keith
Henson tell you lot how to wire it up? (BTW Keith Henson is no
"associate" of mine. Zounds, the fellow is the very Devil!).
Maybe we'll see photos of the UK picketers in a few years time leaked
out of a high security prison in Africa or some place. Dave B strapped
and otherwise naked on the floor of a prison cell with a dog snapping
at his nuts with a smiling, trailer-trash lady officer with one foot
placed on his naked buttocks.
It's a good job I changed my mind about picketing that fine religious
organisation about 2 years ago after I cognited that this world's
fastest growing religion with more than 8 million members is the most
ethical group on the planet dedicated to getting people off drugs,
educating people and protecting them from the evils of psychiatry.
Phil Scott
The Church of the Rubber Chicken is going to see what it
can do to help them with that... you should join up right
away.
For 50 cents I will email you a certification.
For $220 you get a red totum with rubber chicken and
scriptures.
Or you can be a founding member for $1,000 dollars US.
Or you can be a platinum member for just $185,000
Phil Scott
Ted Mayett
technically the biggest city in the United Kingdom. Because London is
bigger, and often erroneously thought of as a single city, Birmingham
is known as "the Second City" (a title also occasionally claimed by
Manchester)."
http://www.birminghamuk.com/wikipedia/Birmingham%2C_England.htm
So let's call it a million people already. And if the population of
this Birmingham has not doubled since 1995, which is unlikely that
there was a doubling of the population. Then let's just consider that
the population of Birmingham was always about a million people for the
examples in this post.
WARNING: This is an Entheta post, a good critic could easily suffer a
loss of Case-Gain from this post. There are plenty of posts here
saying scientology is evil, and, this is not one of those type posts.
And this is the final warning on this subject.
Popularity requires diligence. Sigh.
Meaningless babble surrounds these UK pickets, and I'm tired of it, so
let us look at some facts here if you are so inclined. Actually, let
me give one more warning here. The *facts* I'm about to present will
not be comfortable to many of you. But they are facts, and I'm
getting bored with all this stuff and I feel like bursting the bubble
on some misconceptions.
I've been meaning to do this for a while now anyway. It is no mystery
that I, and probably I alone have read, over and over, and archived,
and fussed with more picket reports concerning scientology than anyone
else on the planet. While this particular post will concern itself
with Birmingham, UK. Some of the concepts apply to all pickets done
at anytime and done anywhere in the world.
If you ever watched children of about 10 years old in an arcade, and
maybe five of them are crowded around one game and trying to beat the
game. Well they yell at each other and will even push each other out
of the way to beat that game. They do this when the particular kid
working the controls at the moment has made an error or something.
And they push and shout and they don't get defensive or upset.
Because for them beating the game is the important thing. Now you put
five adults around that same game, and we don't beat it, but we do
compliment each other on "how well you did this and how well you did
that" and etc. I like kids for this reason, they do something
together and they call each other idiots and worse and they don't get
upset about it. They just work harder to be better. Those kids are
there for one reason only. To beat the game. Not for social
intercourse, not to compliment each other about things. But for the
sole purpose *only* of beating that game.
The statement is that the UK pickets have reduced the scientology
population in the UK. And I say no to this statement. But not a
total and complete and final 'no'. The pickets have done something of
course. Look at it this way. Does a bowling ball exert a
gravitational pull? Of course it does. Even things like the sun and
the moon have an effect on gravity. Why wouldn't a bowling ball
affect gravity.
Why don't we all agree that the time has come to be honest. And let
us look at some facts concerning pickets done in Birmingham, UK.
The information that follows come from two web sites. That of John
Ritson:
http://www.jritson.demon.co.uk/bodythetan/show.htm
And my page:
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/umaster.htm
Jens Tingleff's work was not needed for this post:
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
And for this post the term 'recorded history' refers to the years
1995 up to and including 2004. Which is a 10 year history. And we
have a slight problem with this, which I will address with additional
numbers. The problem is that where Birmingham is concerned it could
actually be more accurate to start with the year 1998 instead of 1995.
I realize this, and will adjust for this. But as you will see, a
three year adjustment will not make much of a difference at all.
Allow me to start now with a quote from an actual picket report. This
picket occurred 11 November 1998 in Birmingham:
"The Birmingham "org" has been picketed before by relatives of
victims, but this was the first picket by organised "Suppressives". "
http://www.jritson.demon.co.uk/bodythetan/shows/sh111198.htm
(hmm, since November 1998 is so close to the year 1999, perhaps we
could eradicate another year from this Birmingham thing. I just now
thought of this. I guess we could honestly say we have a 6 year
history of pickets done in Birmingham, and not a 10 year history. But
even so, even if we did this, well we could compress Birmingham into a
2 year history if we wanted, and still not have anything impressive,
as I will show.)
Continuing with this particular picket we learn of the difficulty of
doing a picket in Birmingham. From Hartley Patterson:
"Birmingham org is in a somewhat frustrating position for pickets, in
a side street just off the much busier High Street. So it's either
irritate the churchies or go for maximum leafleting. Also the org does
not have a shopfront, just a doorway (to upper floors?) with a
'Hubbard Dianetics Foundation' plaque outside, so it isn't clear who
they are."
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/b14nov98.htm
(quick aside, a good spin-off from doing this. I just realized where
some missing reports are located. duh. I should have thought of that
already. )
Same picket, from Roland:
"Went to Birmingham for the demo to picket the bOrg. What a dump."
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/b14nov98.htm#roland1
This particular picket lasted 2.5 hours. Now in the reviews to come I
have rounded time spent at the picket site to the next highest half
hour. And with this particular picket, from reading the reports, 2.5
hours spent at the picket site is not only accurate, but generous.
And if you haven't guessed yet, the picket site *is* important. Were
it not we could pick up a picket sign and do a picket against
scientology right in our living rooms. Not a bad idea maybe :)
This coming Saturday evening, we all stand up from our computers and
walk around our living rooms and we can make the biggest ever picket
against scientology. :)
Moving along we come to the next recorded picket done in Birmingham:
[17 April 1999]. Five months have passed since the last picket done
at this location. From Jens Tingleff:
"Lots and lots of clams at the org (20-30 students). "
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/b17apr99.htm
I'm estimating this picket was for 3 hours total at the most, but all
I can estimate for this one.
Ted Mayett
tam....@gmail.com
> writes:
> >> But the members of that small religious group may still be offended.
> >> About the only thing left to the UK picketers is to give out "Way to
> >> Happiness" booklets.
> >>
> >> It's a shame as I thought the UK picket actions were the best done in
> >> the world and had a very major effect on that small religious group in
> >> reducing the number of members. But it is all over now.
> >
> >
> >It would behoove the next lot of picketers to get some legal advice before
> >they picket again. Let's see if an actual lawyer thinks they will be
> >arrested.
>
> We're awaiting a response from the lawyers.
No doubt you've considered using the "Time" magazine cover
as a placard, combined with quotes from Anderson, Latey, et
al?
So who cares if the clams are 'offended' by them? They are
absolutely cast-iron *factual*, nothing to do with 'religion'
as such.
<sigh> If I was in the UK, I'd be out there in a heartbeat
with you guys.
Incidentally, there's been some talk here in Oz during the
election campaign of a Federal law, similar to that in
Victoria, which would have the same 'intent' as the UK
ballsup. We'll see.
tam
"Of the few innocent pleasures left....
the jamming of commonsense down the throats
of fools is perhaps the keenest."
Thomas Huxley
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/
http://warrior.xenu.ca
RolandRB
> Dave Bird <dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<WOcFK7Dc...@xemu.demon.co.uk>...
> > In article<ck03km$8ts$1...@otis.netspace.net.au>, John <ju...@junk.com>
> > writes:
> > >> But the members of that small religious group may still be offended.
> > >> About the only thing left to the UK picketers is to give out "Way to
> > >> Happiness" booklets.
> > >>
> > >> It's a shame as I thought the UK picket actions were the best done in
> > >> the world and had a very major effect on that small religious group in
> > >> reducing the number of members. But it is all over now.
> > >
> > >
> > >It would behoove the next lot of picketers to get some legal advice before
> > >they picket again. Let's see if an actual lawyer thinks they will be
> > >arrested.
> >
> > We're awaiting a response from the lawyers.
>
> No doubt you've considered using the "Time" magazine cover
> as a placard, combined with quotes from Anderson, Latey, et
> al?
>
> So who cares if the clams are 'offended' by them? They are
> absolutely cast-iron *factual*, nothing to do with 'religion'
> as such.
They could be offended by the facts. Certainly the "c" word must not
be used in their presence, either outside their orgs or elswhere where
they follow the picketers.
> <sigh> If I was in the UK, I'd be out there in a heartbeat
> with you guys.
Maybe not. Keep tuned.
> Incidentally, there's been some talk here in Oz during the
> election campaign of a Federal law, similar to that in
> Victoria, which would have the same 'intent' as the UK
> ballsup. We'll see.
Which law? The ones that says you must not criticise a religion or the
one where you can be grabbed off the street and carted away to a
foreign country to be tortured and murdered (on a US tip-off) without
legal recourse?
RolandRB
When I was taking part in the pickets (some years ago now) each person
did their own thing. We were there for different reasons. One person's
leaflet was slanted one way, another person's another way. And I think
it was best like that as there is no way we would have all agreed on
something. The picketing appeared to change tack at one point when I
got involved because Dave Bird and myself (and I hope he does not
object to my saying this) are somewhat out on the "lunatic fringe".
The picketing took a bizarre turn with Xem/nu and space alien blow-up
dolls that most of the other picketers just sort of accepted (as they
were doing their own thing and we had all agreed we couldn't agree so
we each did our own thing). But there were people who used to picket
with that group before I got involved who objected and stopped
attending. But now I have not picketed with them for 2 years or more
(I sometimes came along to do the photos for a portion of the picket
but that is all) and the pickets have gone more sedate. Again, it is
people doing their own thing and allowing the other picketers to do
their own thing. So the bottom line is that you may think you have a
good idea on how to picket, but don't expect the current picketing
group to fall in line. That just will not work.
The sudden change now with the pickets being turned away by the police
is in an unexpected (to some but not to me) way a new law is being
interpreted. A law that was brought in to get around racist language
being couched in religious terms, such as referring to "Muslims"
instead of "Pakistanis", is being used to protect all religious groups
in the UK including those broadly recognised as being very harmful
ones. Mr Blunkett, who pushed through this law, was on a Radio 4
programme, I believe, where he stated the new law would not be used to
stifle just criticism of religion. But it never said that in the
wording of the law and the current literal wording is being used by a
certain small religious group to their own advantage to protect their
predatory activities and deceptive tactics. What the UK picketers are
now doing are seeking legal advice on how to proceed, and they are
very wise to do so. The way the law is worded, they may have to stop
both picketing, giving out leaflets, criticising a certain small
religious group and to take down their web sites doing the same.
The UK picketers may want to carry on as before but they are also
law-abiding citizens. And it seems the law has now changed so they can
no longer picket or protest the abuses of a certain small religious
group. Make all the noise you want, but you will just have to wait and
see what they do based on the legal advice they are given.
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>
>
>The statement is that the UK pickets have reduced the scientology
>population in the UK. And I say no to this statement.
Ah, here we see the false premise. Rather, pickets and other
counter activity have been behind both some of the hostile
publicity and decline of specific Orgs.
>But not a
>total and complete and final 'no'. The pickets have done something of
>course. Look at it this way. Does a bowling ball exert a
>gravitational pull? Of course it does. Even things like the sun and
>the moon have an effect on gravity. Why wouldn't a bowling ball
>affect gravity.
It does, but ....since a bowling ball is vastly smaller than the moon
...to a vastly smaller extent.
You make an error in assuming that all one million people are
equally exposed to Scientology so we must affect the whole
million equally. This is not so. Some are much more exposed
to scientology than others, and many have zero contact with it.
What you are asserting is more or less that therefore the bowling
ball can have equally little effect on the bowling pins close
to it, and we should therefore start bowling an object
around the same size as the moon.
>
>Why don't we all agree that the time has come to be honest. And let
>us look at some facts concerning pickets done in Birmingham, UK.
>The information that follows come from two web sites. That of John
>Ritson:
>http://www.jritson.demon.co.uk/bodythetan/show.htm
>And my page:
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/umaster.htm
>Jens Tingleff's work was not needed for this post:
>http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/duke_tour/index.html
>
>And for this post the term 'recorded history' refers to the years
>1995 up to and including 2004. Which is a 10 year history. And we
>have a slight problem with this, which I will address with additional
>numbers. The problem is that where Birmingham is concerned it could
>actually be more accurate to start with the year 1998 instead of 1995.
>I realize this, and will adjust for this. But as you will see, a
>three year adjustment will not make much of a difference at all.
Birmingham pickets start in 1998. At this time Bonnie and Richard
raised with us the growth of Birmingham, and the need to picket there.
Although this is my home city, nothing much has been done before.
We had started travelling to Poole, and then Brighton, but Birmingham
was a different proposition.
All the other critics were London or at least southern based;
a journey of around two hours, at least that of Poole, might be
a problem. Also, Poole and Brighton are pleasant sea-side towns,
but Birmingham is (and especially was around 1998) an industrial
city like Detroit largely based on car manufacturing.
So there was some question in my mind whether it would work.
>
>Allow me to start now with a quote from an actual picket report. This
>picket occurred 11 November 1998 in Birmingham:
>"The Birmingham "org" has been picketed before by relatives of
>victims, but this was the first picket by organised "Suppressives". "
>http://www.jritson.demon.co.uk/bodythetan/shows/sh111198.htm
>
>(hmm, since November 1998 is so close to the year 1999, perhaps we
>could eradicate another year from this Birmingham thing. I just now
>thought of this. I guess we could honestly say we have a 6 year
>history of pickets done in Birmingham, and not a 10 year history. But
>even so, even if we did this, well we could compress Birmingham into a
>2 year history if we wanted, and still not have anything impressive,
>as I will show.)
>
>Continuing with this particular picket we learn of the difficulty of
>doing a picket in Birmingham. From Hartley Patterson:
>"Birmingham org is in a somewhat frustrating position for pickets, in
>a side street just off the much busier High Street. So it's either
>irritate the churchies or go for maximum leafleting. Also the org does
>not have a shopfront, just a doorway (to upper floors?) with a
>'Hubbard Dianetics Foundation' plaque outside, so it isn't clear who
>they are."
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/b14nov98.htm
Of course you are aware they moved into new and much more
centrally located premises in 2000/2001.....?
>
>(quick aside, a good spin-off from doing this. I just realized where
>some missing reports are located. duh. I should have thought of that
>already. )
>
>Same picket, from Roland:
>"Went to Birmingham for the demo to picket the bOrg. What a dump."
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/b14nov98.htm#roland1
The old site WAS a dump, with very little foot traffic.
>
>This particular picket lasted 2.5 hours. Now in the reviews to come I
>have rounded time spent at the picket site to the next highest half
>hour. And with this particular picket, from reading the reports, 2.5
>hours spent at the picket site is not only accurate, but generous.
>
>And if you haven't guessed yet, the picket site *is* important. Were
>it not we could pick up a picket sign and do a picket against
>scientology right in our living rooms. Not a bad idea maybe :)
>This coming Saturday evening, we all stand up from our computers and
>walk around our living rooms and we can make the biggest ever picket
>against scientology. :)
But you do take into account that the Org has moved, of course...?
>
>Moving along we come to the next recorded picket done in Birmingham:
>[17 April 1999]. Five months have passed since the last picket done
>at this location. From Jens Tingleff:
>"Lots and lots of clams at the org (20-30 students). "
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/b17apr99.htm
>I'm estimating this picket was for 3 hours total at the most, but all
>I can estimate for this one.
This is very simplistic. If, for example, you are pulling out weeds,
then you need to pull them out sufficiently often to overcome their
rate of growth... and the same with Scientology orgs.
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>we each did our own thing). But there were people who used to picket
>with that group before I got involved who objected and stopped
>attending.
Yes, used to be more people at the pickets, this was a large picket:
London 12 July 1995
"Yesterday (Wednesday the 12th July, 1995), about 25 protestors
demonstrated outside Scientology's shop on Tottenham Court Road,
London,... ."
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/uk/l12jul95.htm
I was going to do a detailed breakdown of UK picket activity, but here
is a shorter version.
1995-2004,
74 pickets total. Which is 7.4 pickets per year over a 10 year span.
The 7.4 pickets per year were spread across 6 different locations,
which means each location in the UK received a little over 1 picket
per year.
And I'm sorry, but I don't accept that one picket per year will reduce
the membership of an org. Sorry, but that just does not compute.
Even if I break this down to cities and distinct years, it comes out
to almost no pickets per year for any location. London received the
most pickets I believe, 27 pickets for 10 years. Which is 3 pickets
per year.
To further compound this problem is an undeniable fact that the big
org here in Las Vegas has not received a picket for 5 years now, and
still the vehicle count is dropping dramatically. That vehicle count
of 5 I had posted, followed it up the next day and the count was
about 7. Went back the next week and the count was 7. And no pickets
to account for this.
Reports from LA and Clearwater that show attendance is quite low.
The whole point of this is twofold. One is reading accolades about UK
picket activity reducing org populations grates on my nerves. It goes
against everything I've learned out there doing my close to 200
pickets that I did. Two, it seems absolutely silly to tackle that new
law and risk arrest for empty orgs.
Too bad people can't work together on a common theme. Bummer.
My pickets were to get rid of the paying publics in the orgs here, and
I accomplished that. Now while I was still out there I kept thinking
on an approach to cost them staff members. I could not come up with
anything I could as a solo act. All the ideas I contemplated required
at least two people, and four would be better, and synchronized picket
signs psychologically engineered to shake up the staff of the org.
Imagine 3-5 people out there, combining their intelligence, doing some
study if needed. And then coming in with an orchestrated and
psychologically planned approach to reducing the number of staff
members... it's fun to dream isn't it?
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article<n2pbm0te3npdqvais...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
><tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>The statement is that the UK pickets have reduced the scientology
>>population in the UK. And I say no to this statement.
>
> Ah, here we see the false premise. Rather, pickets and other
> counter activity have been behind both some of the hostile
> publicity and decline of specific Orgs.
>
I just made another post on this. Clearwater is a ghost town almost,
you saw that text and picture story Gormez put up. Los Angeles is way
down in org population. My big org here in Vegas is low population.
Pickets did not do this.
I post a vehicle count of 5 (Andreas saw that count also). But I post
that and where are the accolades I wonder? It is just not fair I tell
you. How come nobody say's, "that's awesome Ted, you did a GREAT job
of *not* picketing to reduce that vehicle count so much." <grin>
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Birmingham pickets start in 1998. At this time Bonnie and Richard
> raised with us the growth of Birmingham, and the need to picket there.
> Although this is my home city, nothing much has been done before.
> We had started travelling to Poole, and then Brighton, but Birmingham
> was a different proposition.
>
> All the other critics were London or at least southern based;
> a journey of around two hours, at least that of Poole, might be
> a problem. Also, Poole and Brighton are pleasant sea-side towns,
> but Birmingham is (and especially was around 1998) an industrial
> city like Detroit largely based on car manufacturing.
>
Yeah. I've often commented on how impressive it is that some of
travel for hours round trip to attend a picket, that is impressive.
Cerridwen
No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
--------------------------------------------------------
That's awesome Ted, you did a GREAT job of *not* picketing to reduce
that vehicle count so much." <grin>
:)
Cerridwen
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>The whole point of this is twofold. One is reading accolades about UK
>picket activity reducing org populations grates on my nerves. It goes
No, it was 50% responsible for collapsing the population of
one Org (Poole), and 90% responsible for collapsing the
population of another Org (Brighton). These are small town Orgs.
The population of one metropolitan Org has collapsed with a lot
of help from pickets (London), and another has reduced its number
of paying public without much help from us (Manchester).
Birmingham is frankly thriving despite our best efforts.
>against everything I've learned out there doing my close to 200
>pickets that I did. Two, it seems absolutely silly to tackle that new
>law and risk arrest for empty orgs.
>
>Too bad people can't work together on a common theme. Bummer.
>My pickets were to get rid of the paying publics in the orgs here, and
>I accomplished that. Now while I was still out there I kept thinking
>on an approach to cost them staff members.
While I estimate we can make some dents in the new law about what
we can say to the public and where we can demonstrate, direct
approaches to the staff will probably remain impossible from now on.
>I could not come up with
>anything I could as a solo act. All the ideas I contemplated required
>at least two people, and four would be better, and synchronized picket
>signs psychologically engineered to shake up the staff of the org.
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article<b1rem0p9q6eb2fso4...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
><tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>>The whole point of this is twofold. One is reading accolades about UK
>>picket activity reducing org populations grates on my nerves. It goes
>
> No, it was 50% responsible for collapsing the population of
> one Org (Poole), and 90% responsible for collapsing the
> population of another Org (Brighton). These are small town Orgs.
>
> The population of one metropolitan Org has collapsed with a lot
> of help from pickets (London), and another has reduced its number
> of paying public without much help from us (Manchester).
>
> Birmingham is frankly thriving despite our best efforts.
>
See, this is the problem Dave. Putting aside this new law in the UK
for the moment. Let's say it was still 2003 or earlier.
Then in 30 days or slightly less, all by myself, I could have wiped
out the population of that Birmingham org. Now granted, it would have
to be a hard 30 days. Full guerrilla tactics in play.
I'm not going to look it up, but I can. Keith Henson reduced the
vehicle count by about 60% at the San Jose org in about 30 days all by
himself. Keith faced a problem Birmingham or Las Vegas did not have.
San Jose had a vehicle count of 60+ vehicles. Now even me, taking on
that many, it could be 3 solid months of full guerilla tactics to
bring that count down to 10 vehicles or so.
But Birmingham doesn't compare to this. Reports, at least one report
was a student count of 20-30 students. And that's not much at all.
Am I out of line here Dave? There is an objective, a building. And
the goal is to empty that building. Legally of course. Now
Birmingham does present unique problems, and I admit that. But I
could wipe out that org population all by myself, and that is a fact.
Ten years have passed now, ten years of recorded pickets from around
the world. And in ten years no discussions of tactics has ever taken
place, at least not openly. Dishonest songs of 'peaceful pickets'
when there is no such thing as a peaceful picket, there is only legal
and non-legal pickets. For a picket, any picket, is an act of
violence, and that is exactly what it is. But it is a civilized
violence, it is the way wars should be fought in fact. People out
there, with their signs and ideas, seeking to make a change.
When we picket we go to them, they are not coming to us. It is we who
bother them. We shatter the harmony, disturb the tranquility. We
impose and upset when we picket. And no song and dance about "I'm
only out there to inform the public." Inform the public to what end
if not to reduce the membership?
I think you folks in the UK will be busted big time if you picket
again, lawyers or no lawyers. OTOH, were I in the UK right now, I
could get past that new law. I've read every post anyone in the UK
has made regarding that new law. And I could beat it, I could slip
right past it if I wanted to do so. I'd be out there honestly, using
full guerrilla tactics with the sole intention of wiping out the org
population, and they wouldn't be able to touch me. And I'm convinced
of this mind you.
You folks there would do well to question your motivations, and your
honesty. It would do you well to remember just what it is you do when
you picket. Remember just what it means when you personally, whether
driving or walking, spot some person or group of people doing a
picket.
Anyone doing a picket should remember their own worth, your own power,
remember just how valuable you are. Remember how unique you are, and
what a small percentage of the population you represent. And our
greatness and glory is measured by the humility we carry, by how quiet
we are, and by how respectful we are. Everything else is window
dressing. And to the extent that we are garish and loud do we detract
from our greatest strength out there.
And this is all well and good to a degree, but you get a bunch of
people out there acting with humility, being quiet and respectful, and
you could easily end up with a bunch of wimps wasting their time and
accomplishing nothing whatsoever. And so guerrilla tactics come into
play. Because we are out there to accomplish something more than just
wasting an afternoon.
But guerrilla tactics are not etched in stone at this point. Test
runs on various approaches have not been employed, comparisons have
not been made. For it seems we are not allowed these things, for we
are individuals all doing our own thing. Why don't we all take a
moment right now and all of us sing together, 'individuality is a
lovely thing, la la la'.
And do we ignore History at the same time? What does a ten year
history of planet wide pickets teach us?
So let's say 10 men and women doing a picket outside an org, and all
of them wearing suits, clean, etc. that type of thing. And nine of
them are calm and courteous and respectful, but one of them is
shouting vulgar insults whenever a member comes out of the org.
Well, the sad fact then becomes that *all* the people at the picket
are loud vulgar people. Only to ourselves are we individuals, to
outside observers we are a group. And that's the way that is.
History shows us that the number of people attending pickets always
drops in numbers. And the reason this happens is contained in a ten
year history of picket reports from planet wide activity. I'll
expound on this at a different time.
What are guerrilla tactics anyway? Well I have a number of them that
I used out there to accomplish empty orgs. And for the record, it
wasn't even a contest. They had no hope whatsoever here once I
decided to lay waste to the orgs. They only ever had one good
guerrilla tactic they could use, and that wouldn't work on me,
although they did give it a small try. But I had used guerrilla
tactics constantly, at least in the beginning until I had them all
trained properly.
So you talk of guerilla tactics, if we can speak of such things having
gone beyond, "we all do what we feel like doing because we are all
individuals out there la la la." You are *not* individuals out there,
why is that such a hard concept to accept I wonder? Well, the very
first tactic to consider, and the absolute basic tactic to consider is
the approach to the picket site itself. Maybe I was lucky in this and
learned something that few people know. I was doing door-to-door
cold-calling to private homes with this guy. He was the best I ever
worked with. My job was to knock on the door, say hello, and get him
an appointment for a presentation. We were doing water conditioners,
home water systems, that type of thing. This guy taught me that the
sales pitch in the home, started two blocks away from the home. And
he was correct. So now when I'm doing my pickets, the picket always
started a few blocks away from the org. And this is only proper for
it is the approach to the picket site that sets the texture of that
particular picket. Things go wrong sometimes. You've got a plan in
mind for that picket, and maybe a fender-bender auto accident or
something ties up the streets and now you can't cross over to the org
when and where you wanted, so you have to switch tactics for that
picket. Fall back to a back-up plan.
This new UK law calls for, it did already call for, a different
guerilla tactic. And that's why I say I can beat that law. But then
I can wipe out an org population single-handedly also.
I've done the group picket thing, Mesa and LA. Did a picket here with
Kristi Wachter once, and once with some guy and girl that were a
couple. And it's tough doing a group thing, really tough. Heck, if
it were easy there would be more of that thing going on. Nobody wants
to be a follower. We don't necessarily want to be a leader, but we
sure as hell don't want to be a follower.
Meantime, the very first time you folks were called out, and that was
because of that new law, but that very first time ever, you tucked
tails and moved the picket site. And me, no way, never happen, forget
it, impossible, that I would move the picket site. For I am not
offensive out there, I am humble quiet and respectful. But you, with
the boom box, Xenu songs, space aliens banners, NO, that is not
respectful or quiet at all. It is totally offensive. And it is not a
guerrilla tactic but rather a crude display of force. A mockery of
what we really are, a belittling of the power and strength we truly do
posses. And the courts won't be impressed at all by bullies making an
appeal.
Remember how valuable you actually are. Life is short and minutes
precious. To be simply be out there at all is make a profound
statement. Unadorned, humble, quite and respectful is shout so loud
that the world might hear it. But the opposite, dripping blood, a
smiling dead face impaled on a sharp stick, xenu songs. Well that is
not heard at all, save by the choir, and not even all of them.
So Birmingham org still has 10 or more students? Well there is no
excuse for that, that is simply sloppy work and nothing else. How can
a few brain-dead cult members hold up to people like you? Something
does not compute here.
You can't move the picket site again, it just cannot happen, it can't.
If I were there it could conceivably happen that - well, arrest would
not be an issue. There is no way I would ever be arrested if I didn't
want to be arrested. But I could possibly be made to leave the area
totally, but this is not very likely at all. For I would have changed
tactics totally. The next picket for me would be targeted at the
police themselves, the org would just be the meeting spot for the
confrontation. Clams would have nothing to do with this. It is the
police department that has to be handled at the next picket. Now if I
were alone, it would be more difficult. But a few people like me out
there, we would use guerrilla tactics on the police themselves, and it
would all of it most probably work out well.
Ten years have now passed. I believe it is well in excess of 1,200
unique picket reports that have been filed away into the archives.
And this from a planet wide basis. Enough information has been
gathered, conclusions can now be drawn. And that's the way that is!
Over to you Dave. And why don't you just delete all this and talk,
I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Ted Mayett
1995-1999. Pickets done in 2000 and beyond is a subject I've never
considered archiving. And there have been many pickets done planet
wide for this time period of year 2000+.
Further I say 1200+ for the years 1995-1999 for a very specific
reason. I believe the number of reports filed for these years is
actually in excess of 1500 unique reports. But I am not sure of this
and it would require many days of tabulations to arrive at a precise
number.
I say 1200+ intentionally to purposely underplay this accomplishment.
These reports are a thing of beauty. To exaggerate them would be to
reduce the magic of them. Better is that the serious reader, if one
comes along, should find the actual number of reports larger than
stated, and not less than stated.
But if we can keep a secret here on this NG, then I believe it is
quite close to, and maybe exceeding, 1500 unique picket reports done
in 1995-1999. And this includes some few reports I have archived from
as early as 1984 or so.
I estimate that I am missing about 150 unique reports for the years
1995-1999. And this does not make me a good archiver all :(
But I might find them one day, I'm not done yet.
Phil Scott
" Why the staff shortage
after
all these years? "
"Lies, fraud and abuse
drive people
away "
That would work.
For the police... no picket signs. just a few questions?
Hi there... could you tell me what I could ask these
scientologists that
would not be offensive to them?
(The officer would as for some reason for the questions)
"well officer this organization has been convicted around
the world of all sorts of crimes, murder, espionage, fraud,
blackmail, etc...and many of its members sent to prison, one
just recently and some of his team... Reed Slatkin....etc....
and I wanted to ask the staff if these are discussable issues
or not.... and if potential new members should be informed.
Would that offend them?
Etc. One could have three or four short questions to ask
the police... then be dressed nicely and be humble and
respectful and just be present but not assertive.. asking this
range of questions about what is acceptable or not....and what
rights any recruits had to know prior to getting involved.
or one of your strategies, unpredictable pass
throughs...just observing silently is all... a staff person
will wonder just what you are observing and what for...and
that will create a lot questions in the minds of the staff....
a hard core Ted Mayett guerilla type tactic. no?
Questions as one self generates them will cause the person to
look at the situation and get past scn's inc's thought
stopping process...
In going to dinner now twice with scientologists and OSA
staff... it is obvious that these people are quite capable of
thinking... you can see it under the cover of their required
denial of the issues... just raising the question is
sufficient.
If it is raised with force, natural resistance tends to blunt
its penetration...but when raised gently and succinclty with a
few observations...the questions penetrate and the person is
thinking again.
Thinking freely and on the issues of whats really going on
with scientology is the antithesis of what it takes to keep a
staffer humping.
All of this can be implimented without a sign, flier or
confrontation...respectfully..and directly to the staffers
present...or even inside the org if they have thier 'all are
welcome' or 'open house' signs out.
In my case I have different purposes for my visits...at AOLA
it was just to see how they were doing, definititely not to
blow off staff.. they of all the orgs in 1986 sought to
correct massive and criminally damaging things Flag Land base
folks done...so I owed them that respect. I did nothing to
disrupt thier notions or operations, and everything I could to
encourage them to do the right thing.
At the Hubbard Life Exhibit I had similar motives.
At the SF org I had the same motives on both visits and the e
meter demo, although we had a little fun with e meter demo as
I wished to tease them about 'you must answer the question'...
that was a hoot... I gave them all my witholds regarding sex
with red headed babes though...we had a good time... Im sure
they were left with a few questions.
On the pickets my intent is to let the staff and police know
that I support free speech most especially the scn's right to
block my signs with thiers and umbrella's etc...and that my
intent is to simply raise questions and provoke thought... in
the past... the mix of truth and lies.
I agree that being loud and confrontational is counter
productive at worst and only mildly effective getting anyone
to look at the mess at best... loud confrontation provokes
resistance and lables the picketers as abusive...regardless
the actuality...
An occasional pass with a rubber chicken on a pole, in support
of the church of the rubber chicken would give the police
something to think about... one could that respectfully..
maybe with two body guards in dark glasses and suits. But you
might think thats a bit too much. For me, a man must have a
*little fun once in a while.
Phil Scott
Android Cat
> In article<b1rem0p9q6eb2fso4...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
> <tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>> The whole point of this is twofold. One is reading accolades about
>> UK picket activity reducing org populations grates on my nerves. It
>> goes
>
> No, it was 50% responsible for collapsing the population of
> one Org (Poole), and 90% responsible for collapsing the
> population of another Org (Brighton). These are small town Orgs.
>
> The population of one metropolitan Org has collapsed with a lot
> of help from pickets (London), and another has reduced its number
> of paying public without much help from us (Manchester).
>
> Birmingham is frankly thriving despite our best efforts.
http://www.scientology-birmingham.org/
Not a very impressive page, but non-standard for all that it lives in LA's
bottom.
Here's their list of fast-tracked org domains.
(These are the ones that they've shifted over to the new servers and given
spanking new pages.)
www.scientology-buffalo.org
www.scientology-paloalto.org
www.scientology-fso.org
www.scientology-tampa.org
www.celebritycentre.org
www.scientology.org.za (old-style name)
www.cienciologia-madrid.org
www.scientology-losgatos.org
www.scientology-losangeles.org
www.scientology-mountainview.org
www.scientology-sanfrancisco.org
www.scientology-bournemouth.org (Mission. Why does it rate fast-track?)
www.scientology-washingtondc.org
www.scientology-newyork.org (shifted Sept 17th)
www.scientology-harlem.org (A full org?)
www.scientology-johannesburg.org
When I say fast-tracked, that's just my name for it. It has reflected
renovations, moves to new locations, or PR pushes.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:41:40 +0100, Dave Bird
><dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article<b1rem0p9q6eb2fso4...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
>><tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>>>The whole point of this is twofold. One is reading accolades about UK
>>>picket activity reducing org populations grates on my nerves. It goes
>>
>> No, it was 50% responsible for collapsing the population of
>> one Org (Poole), and 90% responsible for collapsing the
>> population of another Org (Brighton). These are small town Orgs.
>>
>> The population of one metropolitan Org has collapsed with a lot
>> of help from pickets (London), and another has reduced its number
>> of paying public without much help from us (Manchester).
>>
>> Birmingham is frankly thriving despite our best efforts.
>>
>
>See, this is the problem Dave. Putting aside this new law in the UK
>for the moment. Let's say it was still 2003 or earlier.
>Then in 30 days or slightly less, all by myself, I could have wiped
>out the population of that Birmingham org. Now granted, it would have
>to be a hard 30 days. Full guerrilla tactics in play.
Well, goody for you. Perhaps you could have enlightened us to
the tactics when we still could. Perhaps you could find the
air-fare to travel over here and do it for us.
Now given that
(a) we don't have you or Keith Henson
(b) I am tired and ill and in and out of hospital
(c) the others can only travel up here every few weekends
(d) the building itself is a large, inaccessible, upstairs area
without a shopfront. Also, directly troubling people who came
in and out of the entrance at close quarters ALWAYS WOULD HAVE
been illegal without new laws.
What should we do................?
What should we HAVE done, even...............?
Do enlighten us from your superior wisdom.
>
>I'm not going to look it up, but I can. Keith Henson reduced the
>vehicle count by about 60% at the San Jose org in about 30 days all by
>himself. Keith faced a problem Birmingham or Las Vegas did not have.
>San Jose had a vehicle count of 60+ vehicles. Now even me, taking on
>that many, it could be 3 solid months of full guerilla tactics to
>bring that count down to 10 vehicles or so.
>
>But Birmingham doesn't compare to this. Reports, at least one report
>was a student count of 20-30 students. And that's not much at all.
>
>Am I out of line here Dave? There is an objective, a building. And
>the goal is to empty that building. Legally of course. Now
>Birmingham does present unique problems, and I admit that. But I
>could wipe out that org population all by myself, and that is a fact.
You don't have pieces amputated off both feet recently.
>
>Ten years have passed now, ten years of recorded pickets from around
>the world. And in ten years no discussions of tactics has ever taken
>place, at least not openly. Dishonest songs of 'peaceful pickets'
>when there is no such thing as a peaceful picket, there is only legal
>and non-legal pickets.
There was a lot of drivel talked, from particular people
in Florida, about "Ghandi Tech". I ignored it.
Of course I would use violence in defence of self and others if
not protected by the law. Of course I would; that is just sanity.
But there are plenty or moral and practical reasons not to be
the first one who starts cracking windows or cracking heads.
>For a picket, any picket, is an act of
>violence, and that is exactly what it is. But it is a civilized
>violence, it is the way wars should be fought in fact.
It is pressure (coercion) if directed straight at the enemy;
and he finds it coercive soon enough if we are depriving him
of economic resource i.e. chumps he can defraud.
>People out
>there, with their signs and ideas, seeking to make a change.
>
>When we picket we go to them, they are not coming to us. It is we who
>bother them. We shatter the harmony, disturb the tranquility. We
>impose and upset when we picket.
True. A picket is a show of opposition which, in itself, they
don't like.
>And no song and dance about "I'm
>only out there to inform the public." Inform the public to what end
>if not to reduce the membership?
We are also there to inform the public... as you say, to deprive
the criminals of a supply of ignorant victims to defraud. To build
a general atmosphere of accurate knowledge and consequent dislike
in the area. If someone is a thief, a mugger, or a pick-pocket,
it is only fair to warn people in their area to watch out for him.
>
>I think you folks in the UK will be busted big time if you picket
>again, lawyers or no lawyers. OTOH, were I in the UK right now, I
>could get past that new law. I've read every post anyone in the UK
>has made regarding that new law. And I could beat it, I could slip
>right past it if I wanted to do so. I'd be out there honestly, using
>full guerrilla tactics with the sole intention of wiping out the org
>population, and they wouldn't be able to touch me. And I'm convinced
>of this mind you.
Well, fair enough, you have only to email (not post obviously)
the details......
>
>You folks there would do well to question your motivations, and your
>honesty. It would do you well to remember just what it is you do when
>you picket. Remember just what it means when you personally, whether
>driving or walking, spot some person or group of people doing a
>picket.
>
>Anyone doing a picket should remember their own worth, your own power,
>remember just how valuable you are. Remember how unique you are, and
>what a small percentage of the population you represent. And our
>greatness and glory is measured by the humility we carry, by how quiet
>we are, and by how respectful we are. Everything else is window
>dressing. And to the extent that we are garish and loud do we detract
>from our greatest strength out there.
You will have to explain this to me (in email). To the extent
we do not shout or make some show, the public walk past without
knowing who we are, nor are the Org troubled by our presence.
>
>And this is all well and good to a degree, but you get a bunch of
>people out there acting with humility, being quiet and respectful, and
>you could easily end up with a bunch of wimps wasting their time and
>accomplishing nothing whatsoever. And so guerrilla tactics come into
>play. Because we are out there to accomplish something more than just
>wasting an afternoon.
>
>But guerrilla tactics are not etched in stone at this point. Test
>runs on various approaches have not been employed, comparisons have
>not been made.
But you have lots of unspecified ideas -- so specify them
by email. We would prefer it encrypted, because we strongly
suspect some plaintext email has been stolen recently.
So, if you want the enemy to be caught be surprise not
alerted in advance to the new tactics, use crypto.
>For it seems we are not allowed these things, for we
>are individuals all doing our own thing. Why don't we all take a
>moment right now and all of us sing together, 'individuality is a
>lovely thing, la la la'.
>
>And do we ignore History at the same time? What does a ten year
>history of planet wide pickets teach us?
>
>So let's say 10 men and women doing a picket outside an org, and all
>of them wearing suits, clean, etc. that type of thing. And nine of
>them are calm and courteous and respectful, but one of them is
>shouting vulgar insults whenever a member comes out of the org.
>Well, the sad fact then becomes that *all* the people at the picket
>are loud vulgar people. Only to ourselves are we individuals, to
>outside observers we are a group. And that's the way that is.
>
>History shows us that the number of people attending pickets always
>drops in numbers. And the reason this happens is contained in a ten
>year history of picket reports from planet wide activity. I'll
>expound on this at a different time.
Do tell us, oh great sage and onion. To me it seems the advantage of
organised evil is that it has money, staff, premises, and permanence.
A few people start shouting about a particular outrage. But they
don't keep it up forever: they have lives to live. They get fed
up of protesting. They move on. This is why evil triumphs, because
normal humanity cannot be arsed to fight back as strongly and
obsessively as its opponents. To keep on doing this sort of stuff
you have to be a bit of a misfit, have some of the craziness of
what you fight. Without that, you don't last the long war.
We have concentrated our efforts directly where the opposition is,
and where people can see what we are protesting about. It seems
common sense to do this. We can start far away and walk closer
if you want. The big problem now is that (unless/until this
provision is proved unlawful) we won't be allowed within earshot.
>
>This new UK law calls for, it did already call for, a different
>guerilla tactic. And that's why I say I can beat that law. But then
>I can wipe out an org population single-handedly also.
>
>I've done the group picket thing, Mesa and LA. Did a picket here with
>Kristi Wachter once, and once with some guy and girl that were a
>couple. And it's tough doing a group thing, really tough. Heck, if
>it were easy there would be more of that thing going on. Nobody wants
>to be a follower. We don't necessarily want to be a leader, but we
>sure as hell don't want to be a follower.
>
>Meantime, the very first time you folks were called out, and that was
>because of that new law, but that very first time ever, you tucked
>tails and moved the picket site. And me, no way, never happen, forget
>it, impossible, that I would move the picket site. For I am not
>offensive out there, I am humble quiet and respectful.
In that case you would have something sprung on you, snot knowing
your position in law, and pushed it to the point of arrest anyway.
That's not the way I'm keen to do it.
>But you, with
>the boom box, Xenu songs, space aliens banners, NO, that is not
>respectful or quiet at all. It is totally offensive. And it is not a
>guerrilla tactic but rather a crude display of force. A mockery of
>what we really are, a belittling of the power and strength we truly do
>posses.
>And the courts won't be impressed at all by bullies making an
>appeal.
Will they not? You might not even be ALLOWED a jury trial. And
even juries can be bamboozled that "the law says this and you must
enforce it" (however unjust and insane) because I am a judge
and I wear a wig.
>
>Remember how valuable you actually are. Life is short and minutes
>precious. To be simply be out there at all is make a profound
>statement. Unadorned, humble, quite and respectful is shout so loud
>that the world might hear it. But the opposite, dripping blood, a
>smiling dead face impaled on a sharp stick,
Who has a smiling dead face impaled on a sharp stick? do please tell.
>xenu songs. Well that is
>not heard at all, save by the choir, and not even all of them.
Depends what it is. It is not the main part of the picket,
which is steady slogan and information. Some songs put
the wind up the opposition (they don't LIKE loud mention
of Xemu), and some is just letting off steam at the end.
>
>So Birmingham org still has 10 or more students? Well there is no
>excuse for that, that is simply sloppy work and nothing else. How can
>a few brain-dead cult members hold up to people like you? Something
>does not compute here.
Because we can't get close enough, often enough.
>
>You can't move the picket site again, it just cannot happen, it can't.
>If I were there it could conceivably happen that - well, arrest would
>not be an issue. There is no way I would ever be arrested if I didn't
>want to be arrested.
Hmm.
>But I could possibly be made to leave the area
>totally, but this is not very likely at all.
I can't see the point. If you re-start a protest which has been
stopped you will be arrested, and if you don't then your presence
is irrelevant.
>For I would have changed
>tactics totally. The next picket for me would be targeted at the
>police themselves, the org would just be the meeting spot for the
>confrontation.
This has occurred to me, that if the police make things
impossible then we change the focus of our protest to the police
IF THERE IS NO OTHER WAY to bring public focus on the issue.
I don't WANT to get into a pissing context with the police
if I can help it. Unlike in America, there are no instances
of corrupt police working with the cult (until now, and then
it is corruption of the law rather than the individual officers).
>Clams would have nothing to do with this. It is the
>police department that has to be handled at the next picket. Now if I
>were alone, it would be more difficult. But a few people like me out
>there, we would use guerrilla tactics on the police themselves, and it
>would all of it most probably work out well.
Good. Email us your suggestions, preferably using crypto. If you
don't know how to use crypto then phone up Grady and ask.
>
>Ten years have now passed. I believe it is well in excess of 1,200
>unique picket reports that have been filed away into the archives.
>And this from a planet wide basis. Enough information has been
>gathered, conclusions can now be drawn. And that's the way that is!
>
>Over to you Dave. And why don't you just delete all this and talk,
>I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Since you claim superior knowledge and tactics, I'd like you to
email them -- to all the usual UK people not just me -- so we can
discuss this out of sight of the enemy.
>
>--
>Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
--
Ted Mayett
What do you mean 'claim', no claims involved, just facts. I'm the
baddest mo fo in the world to ever pick up a picket sign against
scientology. I did something here in Vegas that nobody in the world
has come close to doing. Sun Tzu, if he was around, would give me an
extra portion of raw meat for dinner if he knew about it. I think he
ate raw meat, the Sun. Probably chewing on pigs and chickens while
they were still live and squealing and squawking.
As far as out of sight, nope. I suggest nothing illegal at any time.
My interest in this is only purely academic anyway. This thing is
over, there is nothing to picket anymore. And beyond this, they are
changing, evidence all around us that they are changing. And so
tactics would have to change also to some small degree. Best would be
an open discussion of legal picket tactics.
to be continued...
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> This is why evil triumphs, because
> normal humanity cannot be arsed to fight back as strongly and
> obsessively as its opponents.
I don't believe that you believe this at all. I think you are just
jealous because I know guerilla tactics and you do not.
BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaa
Sorry to hear about your feet. Noticed your absence here and was
hoping it wasn't health related. Hope it all works out fine for you.
For me to beat the UK law, would require two or three pickets. The
first picket would be aimed only at surviving the police
confrontation. I would call ahead to the police, announce a picket,
and give them the starting time and ending time. Let's say 2pm-4pm.
I would then arrive at the picket site, kind of naked, simple silly
useless sign like, 'needed, truth in advertising'. But I would arrive
at about 3:20pm. This would be enough time for the org to call in and
for the police to arrive, should be anyway, hopefully it would be.
I would estimate the police would arrive at about 3:35-3:40pm. Now if
a few picketers were there I would quickly swarm the police, confuse
them, put them on the defensive. Then everybody backs off quickly to
a safe distance and leaves one person to speak.
The speech is simple and fast and assertive, something like this- "you
can see we have no offensive picket signs, we are not shouting or
yelling, and we have lawyers working on this anyway. The picket is
listed until 4pm, that's only a few minutes from now, we are going to
finish quietly and leave quickly, there is no problem."
And me, at that point, I would walk away and not wait for an answer.
And, I would have positioned the cop so that my back was to the picket
site, so I could spin around and walk away and leave him/her looking
at my back.
Now, somebody else is watching the cop for a reaction, if it looks
negative, use a prearranged signal to each other and leave the area
FAST. No more talk. Take a loss and try it again at a different
time. The goal would be to get "permission" to finish the picket, and
that would be used at the next picket for a longer period of time.
Two such "permissions" accumulated and it should be back to business
as usual. But the main thing, if I were there, and it looked like I
would lose the negotiation. I would leave FAST, on my own initiative
and not be instructed to leave or move.
The big obstacle is that they moved you once already. We can assume
these police would talk together about things like this, what they did
and what the results were. They have big problems out there, real
crimes going on. Something like this picket stuff is just a nuisance
call for them, a waste of time. And they moved you with no problems
whatsoever. A King Solomon solution to the problem. You were still
doing a picket, the org was not being offended. It was a perfect and
lovely solution, everybody concerned was happy, everybody got what
they wanted. They will try this solution again. I would.
Now we know nobody was arrested on the 2nd, and you weren't told to
stop picketing. This says to me that the cops know they are in a
definite gray area here. This whole thing is not etched in stone, it
seems almost a judgement call by the police at the moment.
The key to it seems to be 'what is offensive and what is not
offensive'. Your country is no different than mine in that race color
or creed cannot come into play here. Not even appearance of an
individual is allowed to enter the calculations. All this stuff is
sacred. All they got to work with is the big O word, offending,
offensive in speech. And good luck with this.
I do know we can argue for days on end, enough of us, on what is
offensive or not offensive to say to a specialized group. Just how
far can we can go with clever words and still be within the law.
But what we can never argue about is humble quiet and respectful
behavior. These things are apparent when they are done, they are
instantly recognized when they are done. No court of law is required
to prove behavior befitting the best of what makes for a human.
Personally, I think they will bust you at the next picket. What might
happen is you get told to move again, and that you can't picket in
front of the org anymore. But they might just arrest a few of you,
or all of you. Cops have it easy, they just bust us and cart us off
to jail and then the courts work it all out.
But whatever happens, you cannot be moved again. That just cannot
happen anymore. And as far as all that email and crypto stuff, no.
Thanks for the offer but I prefer open discussion of picket tactics.
We are law abiding citizens and we are not discussing any illegal
actions. Concerns that the members could read things like this and
prepare for them are not a calculation. For one thing they simply
don't read that well to begin with. But the main thing is that they
are busy doing good in the world and so they do not follow this NG.
Of course they follow the NG... but then I wonder about that anyway.
Sure they follow all of Henson and Touretzky, maybe Tilman still,
certainly Spaink and Android Cat. But I don't think they care about
people like you and me anymore. And, with open discussion like this
good ideas from others could surface.
Now you did say in another post that because of the shackles of this
new law that you would probably not be able to continue a picket theme
designed at targeting staff members. If you are so inclined, what
moves have you done in the past to achieve this end, and what were the
results?
Phil Scott
very interesting Ted...and thought provoking... I should ask
you sometime about running a service business on similar
terms.
Based on previous remarks then it seems the way to address
staff would be to simply break thier blocking
considerations...that critics are bad people etc.
So one would arrive with a kind heart..(genuinely).. and
simply be there with a sign, not aggressively or
disruptively..
maybe
"You are being lied to,
take a second look"
or
"Scientology is
Booming"
"Join staff now,
Beat the rush"
Thought provoking, on the issues... and coming from a
picketer... really really though provoking. This counters
the thought stopping strategies laid in on staff by the
organization.
I think Im getting the hang of it Ted.
in business, I could approach humbly to eliminate a need to
refute or challeng... give a few parts away to break the
expectation of a rip off... recommend the competitors...give a
grossly extended warranty... refuse to come at the customers
demand but on my own time and initiative...quote a lucrative
flat rate, then deliver perfectly..do more than is expected
... then give an elaborate written warranty.. then do a
freebie on the way out..
Break all of the negative expecations from the customer, and
break all of his or her control and manipulation strategies by
obviating them.
Lacking that one ends up coping with a barage of
baloney...insane notions.. negative expectations...
assumptions that one is like worst the customer has ever
seen..etc.
The same set of notions could be applied at a picket.
To get staff to leave a corrupt organization (as long as it
remains corrupt) all one has to do is provoke thought onto the
issues, without giving the staff member any cause to reject
you or the line of thinking you are suggesting.
And that can be done utterly effortlessly, with nothing but
complete humility and respect...no noise and no effort, except
a determination not to be offensive in any way and to avoid a
circumstance where you can be made to look bad or weak..so you
arrive in such a way and leave in such a way, that you retain
control at all times..
Use of force or agressiveness gives the police etc cause to
attempt control... and all that distracts from your goal...to
simply get the staff to consider the situation accurately.
An impenetrable picket srategy.
But you have to eat raw meat to be able to pull that off...
even from live animals.. you carry live chickens with you ...
and before the picket you bite one in the leg....none of this
is light duty. This approach takes total dedication...
You got me thinking Ted... this should be very very good for
business. .. one never braggs or trys to impress.. but does
the oposite.. breaking the confrontation. Letting carefully
perfected appearance and demeanor do all of the talking....
anything else brings attempts to refute.
Phil Scott
Ted Mayett
<philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> " Why the staff shortage
> after
> all these years? "
> "Lies, fraud and abuse
> drive people
> away "
>That would work.
>
I don't agree with this at all. Now the first one has potential
because it asks a question.
Why would I say I was unable to come with something that I could do,
by myself, the would be psychologically engineered to reduce the
number of staff? Several reasons.
The audience to this campaign is usually at least 20' feet away, this
means the letters on the picket sign have to be large. Your second
example here is close to being the maximum, might be more than the
maximum number of letters a picket sign can hold.
Another thing is you are moving out there, in theory anyway, moving
back and forth, and this makes a wordy picket sign hard to read.
Staff, to my way of looking at it, are in 3 Levels. New staff, staff
that have lasted a month or so, and then the real hard core. It is
only the hard core that will stare at a picket sign in my experiences
out there. The other two levels will not read the sign. Not openly.
And so there have to be few enough words per sign, so that these staff
members can take the words in without being obvious about reading.
This means, that to carry any effective maneuver to these low level
staff, it would need several people carrying signs, and each sign
continuing a thought. And of course, for the first few sweeps of the
picket, people would be basically walking in a formation.
But I don't like your ideas at all that are listed above, they are
just too tame IMO. Nothing psychologically engineered in there.
But then you were thinking in one dimension only. Turn your thoughts
to a synchronized display of picket signs, and they are all working
together to get one complicated thought across.
And it need not be a complicated thought BTW. It could be a simple
message, but the fact that it is spread across 3 or 4 picket signs
would make it a psychological ploy.
Case in point is one idea I've always had, but couldn't do on one
picket sign and have it look intelligent is this:
"thank you for saving the planet today"
I believe this would be a nasty thing to do, quite belittling. I'm
not even sure it would be a good idea to do this.
But maybe something like:
"can I be a staff member too? I'm perfectly willing to lie and say
scientology is expanding"
The idea would be to plant seeds of doubt in the people, not upset
them. Nothing of course, no matter how clever, would have them
running out of the org at that moment. It is all a long term
strategy. Now beyond these few quick words here, I never really did
put a lot of thought into actual wording as there was no way for me to
test it, being out there by myself. I did run some test signs though,
don't quite remember them at the moment, but some things I came up
with had them paying attention.
Now if this were to be done, a strategy would have to be laid in.
Opening moves which might be something totally stupid to set them up
for that fact that reading the signs is not a problem. Fool them, put
them at ease, relax them. Give them the moral high ground. And when
they've gotten comfortable and lazy with it all, move in fast and hard
and zap them. And then back off, then come in hard again. Cold and
calculating. Confuse them, make them think. And when they learn to
think again, some of them will be home in time for christmas.
A few people, orchestrated, could empty an org of staff, it wouldn't
be that difficult. I don't believe one person alone could have an
effect on the staff though. Staff are tougher than the Publics.
Keith Henson
<tedm...@despammed.com> wrote:
>Sun Tzu, if he was around, would give me an
>extra portion of raw meat for dinner if he knew about it. I think he
>ate raw meat, the Sun. Probably chewing on pigs and chickens while
>they were still live and squealing and squawking.
That's not at all what eating raw meat is about.
Most people nowadays are so far from their food sources they have no
idea. What you eat raw is fresh liver. You mentioned being affected
by niacin, well that's part of the effect you get eating raw liver,
say a raw rabbit liver. But you have to eat it minutes out of the
animal for it to have the effect because the enzymes break down
quickly.
Keith Henson
PS. Don't try this unless you are reasonably sure about the health of
the animal.
realpch
<snip>
> (a) we don't have you or Keith Henson
> (b) I am tired and ill and in and out of hospital
Oh!
> (c) the others can only travel up here every few weekends
> (d) the building itself is a large, inaccessible, upstairs area
> without a shopfront. Also, directly troubling people who came
> in and out of the entrance at close quarters ALWAYS WOULD HAVE
> been illegal without new laws.
>
> What should we do................?
>
> What should we HAVE done, even...............?
>
> Do enlighten us from your superior wisdom.
>
> >
> >I'm not going to look it up, but I can. Keith Henson reduced the
> >vehicle count by about 60% at the San Jose org in about 30 days all by
> >himself. Keith faced a problem Birmingham or Las Vegas did not have.
> >San Jose had a vehicle count of 60+ vehicles. Now even me, taking on
> >that many, it could be 3 solid months of full guerilla tactics to
> >bring that count down to 10 vehicles or so.
> >
> >But Birmingham doesn't compare to this. Reports, at least one report
> >was a student count of 20-30 students. And that's not much at all.
> >
> >Am I out of line here Dave? There is an objective, a building. And
> >the goal is to empty that building. Legally of course. Now
> >Birmingham does present unique problems, and I admit that. But I
> >could wipe out that org population all by myself, and that is a fact.
>
> You don't have pieces amputated off both feet recently.
Oh oh oh!
So sorry to hear this Dave!
: (
Peach
><snip>
Phil Scott
that would be very effective spread over 3 or 4 signs as
you suggested.
I need to talk to you about a little business consulting.
>
> The idea would be to plant seeds of doubt in the people, not
upset
> them. Nothing of course, no matter how clever, would have
them
> running out of the org at that moment. It is all a long
term
> strategy. Now beyond these few quick words here, I never
really did
> put a lot of thought into actual wording as there was no way
for me to
> test it, being out there by myself. I did run some test
signs though,
> don't quite remember them at the moment, but some things I
came up
> with had them paying attention.
>
> Now if this were to be done, a strategy would have to be
laid in.
> Opening moves which might be something totally stupid to set
them up
> for that fact that reading the signs is not a problem. Fool
them, put
> them at ease, relax them. Give them the moral high ground.
You are a very sneaky person Ted :)
>And when
> they've gotten comfortable and lazy with it all, move in
fast and hard
> and zap them. And then back off, then come in hard again.
Cold and
> calculating. Confuse them, make them think. And when they
learn to
> think again, some of them will be home in time for
christmas.
>
> A few people, orchestrated, could empty an org of staff, it
wouldn't
> be that difficult. I don't believe one person alone could
have an
> effect on the staff though. Staff are tougher than the
Publics.
I dont disagree,,, but ive seen more than one staff twig on
what I had to say, ever so faintly..,most assuning that I knew
nothing of scn...then I demonstrated I had been there and done
that... that tweeked these people... Most of those are no
longer on staff at the SF org... im sure there were other
factors though...but during my remarks I could see the gears
turning in maybe half the cases... my approach was always
honest and frank and considerate of confidential material and
demonstrating that I knew the score... that worked.
Phil Scott
call me when you have time if you can Ted...I will return it
on my nickle
(415) 927 7573
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:35:55 +0100, Dave Bird
><dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Over to you Dave. And why don't you just delete all this and talk,
>>>I'd like to hear your thoughts.
>>
>> Since you claim superior knowledge and tactics, I'd like you to
>> email them -- to all the usual UK people not just me -- so we can
>> discuss this out of sight of the enemy.
>
>What do you mean 'claim', no claims involved, just facts. I'm the
>baddest mo fo in the world to ever pick up a picket sign against
>scientology. I did something here in Vegas that nobody in the world
>has come close to doing. Sun Tzu, if he was around, would give me an
>extra portion of raw meat for dinner if he knew about it. I think he
>ate raw meat, the Sun. Probably chewing on pigs and chickens while
>they were still live and squealing and squawking.
Unfortunately what you have suggested and implied is that you have
specific ways for us to be more effective, with the resources we
have no. So, tell us -- directly, specifically, and in private --
what you think we should do.
>
>As far as out of sight, nope. I suggest nothing illegal at any time.
>My interest in this is only purely academic anyway. This thing is
>over, there is nothing to picket anymore. And beyond this, they are
>changing, evidence all around us that they are changing.
In what ways? What evidence??
>And so
>tactics would have to change also to some small degree. Best would be
>an open discussion of legal picket tactics.
>
>to be continued...
>
>
>
>--
>Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
--
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:35:55 +0100, Dave Bird
><dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> This is why evil triumphs, because
>> normal humanity cannot be arsed to fight back as strongly and
>> obsessively as its opponents.
>
>I don't believe that you believe this at all. I think you are just
>jealous because I know guerilla tactics and you do not.
>BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaa
>
>Sorry to hear about your feet. Noticed your absence here and was
>hoping it wasn't health related. Hope it all works out fine for you.
>
>
>For me to beat the UK law, would require two or three pickets. The
>first picket would be aimed only at surviving the police
>confrontation. I would call ahead to the police, announce a picket,
>and give them the starting time and ending time. Let's say 2pm-4pm.
>
>I would then arrive at the picket site, kind of naked, simple silly
>useless sign like, 'needed, truth in advertising'. But I would arrive
>at about 3:20pm. This would be enough time for the org to call in and
>for the police to arrive, should be anyway, hopefully it would be.
Well, what I will do, I will discuss this in email with the others.
>
>I would estimate the police would arrive at about 3:35-3:40pm. Now if
>a few picketers were there I would quickly swarm the police, confuse
>them, put them on the defensive.
Let me give you some insight into what actually happens. The
demonstrators are approximately in one small area. Two or three
police arrive, usually in a vehicle, and usually at a stand off
from the demonstrators. It is not clear whether they wish to
speak to us, or to some other nearby demo or leaflet table -- there
are several in New Street -- or perhaps a theft at a shop. If someone
has complained they will go to the complainant and ask their side 1st.
(This is something we have encouraged, since clams have made
anonymous and/or ridiculous complaints in the hope police will
approach us saying "we have been told your leaflets are obscene"
or whatever, rather than asking the complainant "show me one of
these leaflets, show me what is obscene about it").
They will then come over and ask us "who is the organiser". Usually
in fact the organiser would co-operate by going up to them and
saying "I am the organiser, what have you come to see us about."
Now, what are you suggesting? That we swarm towards the police as
they approach? That we disperse widely as they come near??
>Then everybody backs off quickly to
>a safe distance and leaves one person to speak.
Yes, this is what happens. The senior organiser on the scene
speaks to them. Sometimes the number two organiser or other
clued up person is hovering as witness / advisor, but it is the
senior person's call because it is them who stands to be arrested
and held to account. There is not at this point any democratic
debate. The organiser tells pickets "this is what we will do."
If it is risky you say "anyone not prepared to do that should move
away now." If it is to cave in then you say "anyone who does
not leave with me now is no longer my responsibility."
>
>The speech is simple and fast and assertive, something like this- "you
>can see we have no offensive picket signs, we are not shouting or
>yelling, and we have lawyers working on this anyway. The picket is
>listed until 4pm, that's only a few minutes from now, we are going to
>finish quietly and leave quickly, there is no problem."
Well, you can try. I expect they will say "not for a minute can
you do X, Y, or Z which is against the new law."
>
>And me, at that point, I would walk away and not wait for an answer.
>And, I would have positioned the cop so that my back was to the picket
>site, so I could spin around and walk away and leave him/her looking
>at my back.
(1) there will always be two of them, to act as witness / back-up
for each other.
(2) I expect they will follow and say, "we haven't finished
talking to you -- we have to tell you A B and C first."
It is inadvisable not to listen to an instruction. They will
simply make sure you hear it, and use threats or arrest if you disobey.
>
>Now, somebody else is watching the cop for a reaction, if it looks
>negative, use a prearranged signal to each other and leave the area
>FAST. No more talk.
Again, it doesn't quite work that way. You are in the clear until
you go against what you have been told to do. At any time you can
fold up and leave. Obviously if you decide your response is
departure then you just do it, immediately and together.
>Take a loss and try it again at a different
>time.
Unfortunately what you have missed is that there are not
new opportunities. You always have to negotiate the next
demo arrangements with EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON AS BEFORE
IN THAT CITY. If you move from city to city, you do not
build up any advantage in one place.
> The goal would be to get "permission" to finish the picket, and
>that would be used at the next picket for a longer period of time.
>Two such "permissions" accumulated and it should be back to business
>as usual.
Um, no, there are some things they say are against the new
law which they will not say are permitted again.
> But the main thing, if I were there, and it looked like I
>would lose the negotiation. I would leave FAST, on my own initiative
>and not be instructed to leave or move.
Again, a matter of personal preference. Also a matter of the
number of opportunities. If you have one person able to come
every day then moving off is a small price. If it is costly
to bring a picket then you make clear you do not like it and
might be doing something about it even as you leave.
>
>The big obstacle is that they moved you once already.
It's pretty fundamental; it was going to happen.
>We can assume
>these police would talk together about things like this, what they did
>and what the results were.
They are more like city PD's. They don't brief each other much.
But Saint Hill WILL brief the outer Orgs to use uniform tactics.
>They have big problems out there, real
>crimes going on. Something like this picket stuff is just a nuisance
>call for them, a waste of time. And they moved you with no problems
>whatsoever. A King Solomon solution to the problem.
No it wasn't. It was what they had been told the new law mandated
them to do. Now we need to know how accurate that is. Are they
going to get a nasty letter from our solicitors saying we will
sue them if they issue wrongful instructions? Is it something
we can only challenge if we push it to the point of arrest?
Are the simply right in law and we have no case?
>You were still
>doing a picket, the org was not being offended. It was a perfect and
>lovely solution, everybody concerned was happy, everybody got what
>they wanted. They will try this solution again. I would.
But it wasn't enough. The clams followed us round with a
fence ready to take, and they were offended at everything
about us including us being alive and breathing.
>
>Now we know nobody was arrested on the 2nd, and you weren't told to
>stop picketing. This says to me that the cops know they are in a
>definite gray area here.
True. We followed specific instructions (because we didn't
have firm legal advice how and whether we could fight them),
we were also quite clearly outraged by their actions and not
in a mood to back down overall.
>This whole thing is not etched in stone, it
>seems almost a judgement call by the police at the moment.
>
>The key to it seems to be 'what is offensive and what is not
>offensive'. Your country is no different than mine in that race color
>or creed cannot come into play here. Not even appearance of an
>individual is allowed to enter the calculations. All this stuff is
>sacred. All they got to work with is the big O word, offending,
>offensive in speech. And good luck with this.
Our own legal advice would be nice.
>
>I do know we can argue for days on end, enough of us, on what is
>offensive or not offensive to say to a specialized group. Just how
>far can we can go with clever words and still be within the law.
>
>But what we can never argue about is humble quiet and respectful
>behavior. These things are apparent when they are done, they are
>instantly recognized when they are done. No court of law is required
>to prove behavior befitting the best of what makes for a human.
>
>Personally, I think they will bust you at the next picket. What might
>happen is you get told to move again, and that you can't picket in
>front of the org anymore. But they might just arrest a few of you,
>or all of you. Cops have it easy, they just bust us and cart us off
>to jail and then the courts work it all out.
I very much doubt it. They don't have grounds if we obey
specific instructions. The whole public order thing (obviously
doesn't apply when outright riot breaks out) is they want to
push and coerce people into not breaking the law and needing
to be arrested. Arrests for petty causes are a lot of extra work.
It also means they might bite off a lot of trouble rather than
simply get their way at no cost.
>
>But whatever happens, you cannot be moved again. That just cannot
>happen anymore.
Wrong. We will be arrested if we go into a place contrary to
instruction or don't leave it when reminded.
>And as far as all that email and crypto stuff, no.
>Thanks for the offer but I prefer open discussion of picket tactics.
I don't. I'm asking everyone else from UK not to
respond on tactical information in public, from now on.
>We are law abiding citizens and we are not discussing any illegal
>actions.
Don't be dense. At any time your actions can be at risk when
tactics are disclosed, if the opponent is prepared to block them.
>Concerns that the members could read things like this and
>prepare for them are not a calculation.
I beg to differ. Anything said in public and useful to Saint Hill
will be picked up, and communicated to the 4 outer orgs concerned.
>For one thing they simply
>don't read that well to begin with. But the main thing is that they
>are busy doing good in the world and so they do not follow this NG.
>
>Of course they follow the NG... but then I wonder about that anyway.
>Sure they follow all of Henson and Touretzky, maybe Tilman still,
>certainly Spaink and Android Cat. But I don't think they care about
>people like you and me anymore. And, with open discussion like this
>good ideas from others could surface.
>
>Now you did say in another post that because of the shackles of this
>new law that you would probably not be able to continue a picket theme
>designed at targeting staff members. If you are so inclined, what
>moves have you done in the past to achieve this end, and what were the
>results?
Usually Roland was best at this, saying that RTC was squirreling
the TECH, Miscavigge was wasting their money, etc. Others of us
speak occasionally along the same lines, but we are not so well
informed or persuasive because we are not ex-members.
>--
>Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
-- . . : : ,; . : ' ___.
Dave Bird
>> What should we do................?
>>
>> What should we HAVE done, even...............?
>>
>> Do enlighten us from your superior wisdom.
>>
>> >
>> >I'm not going to look it up, but I can. Keith Henson reduced the
>> >vehicle count by about 60% at the San Jose org in about 30 days all by
>> >himself. Keith faced a problem Birmingham or Las Vegas did not have.
>> >San Jose had a vehicle count of 60+ vehicles. Now even me, taking on
>> >that many, it could be 3 solid months of full guerilla tactics to
>> >bring that count down to 10 vehicles or so.
>> >
>> >But Birmingham doesn't compare to this. Reports, at least one report
>> >was a student count of 20-30 students. And that's not much at all.
>> >
>> >Am I out of line here Dave? There is an objective, a building. And
>> >the goal is to empty that building. Legally of course. Now
>> >Birmingham does present unique problems, and I admit that. But I
>> >could wipe out that org population all by myself, and that is a fact.
>>
>> You don't have pieces amputated off both feet recently.
>
>Oh oh oh!
>So sorry to hear this Dave!
>: (
It may be that I could have beaten Birmingham Org down single handed
if I were superman, able to go there many days a week all day etc
and also have comprehensive knowledge as an ex-member. I doubt it.
But certainly there is no way I would have had the health and
strength to do this. Sorry. It couldn't have happened. If there
were lots more people in Birmingham prepared for a high level of
commitment. There weren't any. If wishes were horses, beggars
would ride, but they don't. I don't think it could have gone any
differently given the resources available.
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:48:23 GMT, "Phil Scott"
><philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Another thing is you are moving out there, in theory anyway, moving
>back and forth, and this makes a wordy picket sign hard to read.
It is only in America that pickets have to move back and forth;
in the UK they can stand still.
>
>Staff, to my way of looking at it, are in 3 Levels. New staff, staff
>that have lasted a month or so, and then the real hard core. It is
>only the hard core that will stare at a picket sign in my experiences
>out there. The other two levels will not read the sign. Not openly.
>And so there have to be few enough words per sign, so that these staff
>members can take the words in without being obvious about reading.
>
>This means, that to carry any effective maneuver to these low level
>staff, it would need several people carrying signs, and each sign
>continuing a thought. And of course, for the first few sweeps of the
>picket, people would be basically walking in a formation.
The core of the new law is that you can't do anything which
really is designed to maximally get up the staffmember nose.
Access varies to these junior people. Sometimes calls of
"what is the secret of OT3? Who is Xemu and what are body thetans?
why does Mr Miscaivige spend church money on a private golf-course/"
etc can be heard inside. Some orgs will still put new fish out
on active counter-picket.
Especially if they push, shove, disrupt, steal leaflets, etc,
there are grounds for a bit of mockery -- aimed at organisational
behaviour of course, not personal life and appearance. They had
a new member out one time who handed out leaflets with an
insane chant of "hello, would you like one, thank-YEW; hello
would you like one thank-YEW." It was fairly easy to parody
this in the manner of an old record called "allo John gotta
now mota?", or give him communication lessons like "it's not
'one', it a leeaflet; can you say 'LEEEE-FLUT'? ay leeee-flut.
Hello, would you like AY LEE-FLUT sir." More than anything
to make this character realise the absurdity of his behaviour
and have a fit of the giggles.
>
>But I don't like your ideas at all that are listed above, they are
>just too tame IMO. Nothing psychologically engineered in there.
>But then you were thinking in one dimension only. Turn your thoughts
>to a synchronized display of picket signs, and they are all working
>together to get one complicated thought across.
>
>And it need not be a complicated thought BTW. It could be a simple
>message, but the fact that it is spread across 3 or 4 picket signs
>would make it a psychological ploy.
>
>Case in point is one idea I've always had, but couldn't do on one
>picket sign and have it look intelligent is this:
>
>"thank you for saving the planet today"
>
>I believe this would be a nasty thing to do, quite belittling. I'm
>not even sure it would be a good idea to do this.
Seems harmless to me (but perhaps also not very effective).
>
>But maybe something like:
>
>"can I be a staff member too? I'm perfectly willing to lie and say
>scientology is expanding"
Oooh dear, you probably can't say 'lie',
it's disparaging.
>
>The idea would be to plant seeds of doubt in the people, not upset
>them. Nothing of course, no matter how clever, would have them
>running out of the org at that moment. It is all a long term
>strategy. Now beyond these few quick words here, I never really did
>put a lot of thought into actual wording as there was no way for me to
>test it, being out there by myself. I did run some test signs though,
>don't quite remember them at the moment, but some things I came up
>with had them paying attention.
Well, this is what we aim to do when facing the Scienos themselves,
plant small seeds of doubt.
>
>Now if this were to be done, a strategy would have to be laid in.
>Opening moves which might be something totally stupid to set them up
>for that fact that reading the signs is not a problem. Fool them, put
>them at ease, relax them. Give them the moral high ground. And when
>they've gotten comfortable and lazy with it all, move in fast and hard
>and zap them. And then back off, then come in hard again. Cold and
>calculating. Confuse them, make them think. And when they learn to
>think again, some of them will be home in time for christmas.
If you have any specific placard ideas, spit 'em out. But we
probably won't be able to use them direct at members, staff or public.
>
>A few people, orchestrated, could empty an org of staff, it wouldn't
>be that difficult. I don't believe one person alone could have an
>effect on the staff though. Staff are tougher than the Publics.
>
>
>--
>Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
-- . . : : ,; . : ' ___.
Ted Mayett
<philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Based on previous remarks then it seems the way to address
>staff would be to simply break thier blocking
>considerations...that critics are bad people etc.
>
>So one would arrive with a kind heart..(genuinely).. and
>simply be there with a sign, not aggressively or
>disruptively..
>
This 'kind hearted' business is a tricky issue. Keith Henson as an
example could do things I never could do, because I am simply not as
caring a person as he is. But then I think the guy is unique among
all of us in this respect.
With me it was more of an attitude of respect. Although, since I used
this NG as a tool for giving them the moral high ground out there, you
wouldn't guess this actual respectful attitude on my part.
> maybe
>
>"You are being lied to,
> take a second look"
>
There isn't a one of us who ever lasted as a member that didn't know
we were living a lie. And members today are no different. Having
only my own trials of picket sign tests to work with, I came up with
the fact that asking a question, rather than making a statement was
the best approach. Thus, 'does the bridge really cost 360k?'
If I were to make a statement on the org side of the picket sign, it
would be totally stupid and designed to confuse them. Something like
'Mercury is a planet'. 'down with zeppelins', anything like this.
As I think about it, typing now, this might be what the greatest
friend mankind ever had, L. Ron Hubbard, was calling "creating a
mystery sandwich" or whatever it actually was that he wrote on this.
Consider this, you are out there, they see you out there, and your
sign says nothing intelligent. Then why are you actually there?
why why why? Let them fill in the blanks, answer the questions, and
save Statements for when they are sufficiently conditioned.
>"Join staff now,
> Beat the rush"
>
Yeah! This could be a good one.
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>That's not at all what eating raw meat is about.
>
>Most people nowadays are so far from their food sources they have no
>idea. What you eat raw is fresh liver. You mentioned being affected
>by niacin, well that's part of the effect you get eating raw liver,
>say a raw rabbit liver. But you have to eat it minutes out of the
>animal for it to have the effect because the enzymes break down
>quickly.
>
>Keith Henson
>
>PS. Don't try this unless you are reasonably sure about the health of
>the animal.
Correct, and in training, but I forget what it was, we learned to
determine the health of the rabbit. We did it with a rabbit, about
ten of us around the instructor. The rabbit was lifted from the cage,
held upside down, bled and gutted. Then a volunteer was requested to
eat the liver. Sigh, the volunteer wasn't me.
realpch
My own experience of picketing is that it takes a lot of energy. Walking
back and forth on concrete is not one of my favorite things. I'm no
spring chicken. In addition, one is dealing with a random selection of
the public, and in a position where one is freely accessible to said
public, which can be very wearing, especially in the location where I
picketed. Then there's the folks from the Org ordered to make it as
unpleasant as possible on the picketers. It's work. Hard work.
I never had much in the way of expectations for my picketing. I thought
that some people who read the leaflets or saw the signs would follow up
and get more info. That seemed a satisfactory enough result for me.
Anything else that resulted from the picketing, I wouldn't know about.
As for the effect on members, who knows? Perhaps a few might wonder why
a group with OT powers couldn't immediately make a picket go away. Maybe
a couple might go look up xenu.net. But I'd never have any way of
knowing about it. Mostly I guess I did it for myself, as it seemed the
correct thing to be doing.
Peach
Zinj
dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk says...
<snip>
> It is only in America that pickets have to move back and forth;
> in the UK they can stand still.
This is not universally the case in the US either. Different locations
have different rules. In general, and lacking specific information it's
wise to keep moving.
Also, US picketers generally accede to police 'requests', and always to
demands. Civil disobedience has its place, but requires a well
considered conviction and committment. In cases where the police make
blatantly extra-legal demands, a formal complaint seems to me to be
preferable to arguing with the 'cop on the scene'.
<snip>
> If you have any specific placard ideas, spit 'em out. But we
> probably won't be able to use them direct at members, staff or public.
I haven't seen any comment on my suggestion to picket using quotes from
UK court decisions against Scientology® on signs and in pamphlets. If
expanded to Commonwealth courts, the selection gets much larger. And
there's also the Foster Report.
Some of that stuff is far nastier than commonly used picketing material,
and would seem to suggest a higher legal protection.
Zinj
--
You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Ted Mayett
>I haven't seen any comment on my suggestion to picket using quotes from
>UK court decisions against ScientologyŽ on signs and in pamphlets. If
>expanded to Commonwealth courts, the selection gets much larger. And
>there's also the Foster Report.
>
I tell you, it doesn't make my needle float. Be it for members or
civilians, it is not easily remembered or memorized, it wouldn't flow
in speech, it is out of context. Unless you are talking about
bringing the transcripts from entire court cases being mentioned.
The entire world is simple, except you and me of course. Why not hit
them with a simple message?
If someone hands me a flyer with partial court decisions on it, I
would ask the person, calmly, and quite frankly, "what the fuck do you
expect me to do with this?". I don't think much of this idea. It
don't do nothing for me. Although maybe a partial court decision on
Who vs Cares :)
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It may be that I could have beaten Birmingham Org down single handed
> if I were superman, able to go there many days a week all day etc
Yes, that is what it takes to wipe out an org population. Many days a
week, and many hours of commitment. One of the major guerrilla
tactics I had used, not sure I ever posted about this, I would go to
where they could see me from the org. Sometimes I would have to wait
30 minutes or more to be spotted. Once I knew for sure I was spotted,
and the person had gone inside, I would quickly drive away. Then I
would usually come back in an hour or so and do a picket.
> and also have comprehensive knowledge as an ex-member. I doubt it.
> But certainly there is no way I would have had the health and
> strength to do this. Sorry. It couldn't have happened.
Well this explains everything. I always thought your health was a
match to your wit and humor. Never suspected how far behind it
lagged.
So different your city and mine, a difference in health and abilities
also. Case in point. A few times I called into the big org, told
them when I would be there for a picket. They would be gathered and
waiting and watching for me. I would park about two blocks away, and
come in from the desert climbing fences and walls to get there. I'd
sneak around from a direction they never expected, and surprise them.
This one time, it really works well. I come in over the final wall,
hug the side of the org, turn the corner of the building and I am
right among them. They don't see me. I quickly get right next to
them, and say "BOO". They jumped! Eyes wide, ready to scream in
fright. ahh, such happy memories. The only thing I never did was
repel down the side of the building from the roof to drop among them.
And I thought of this always. But I would have had to drive a stake
into the roof to support the rope that would support my weight, and
that would be damage to property and so I never did that.
Ummm, these were only the opening moves, once they were trained I
turned respectful.
> If there
> were lots more people in Birmingham prepared for a high level of
> commitment. There weren't any. If wishes were horses, beggars
> would ride, but they don't. I don't think it could have gone any
> differently given the resources available.
Agreed.
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>"thank you for saving the planet today"
>>
>>I believe this would be a nasty thing to do, quite belittling. I'm
>>not even sure it would be a good idea to do this.
>
> Seems harmless to me (but perhaps also not very effective).
You'd be surprised about this one. I used it, it hit hard, harder
than I wanted. I said it to one of them, it wasn't on a picket sign.
There is nothing wrong with the people in a local org, they are just
like people you find anywhere. The only difference is some of them
are terribly deluded and believe they are saving the planet.
You must realize always, society is on a dwindling spiral.
Scientology and scientologists are the only hope this planet has. It
is a hard job, doing what they do. And because they have the only
effective Technology for life on this planet, they are the most
attacked group on this planet. They know that man's basic nature is
good, they know (soon enough) that they are doing a 3rd Dynamic
activity.
What they don't know is that they are criminals and murderers and that
they have body thetans. Most of them don't know about body thetans.
Now you tell them these things, and don't be surprised if they don't
believe you when you attempt to educate them on all of this.
You tell them scientology hates free speech and expect them to look at
you like you are a bona fide idiot because scientology is *only* about
free speech. As a scientologist they know they will eventually have
the ability to experience anything easily. And this is of course
quickly extrapolated to where they somehow and magically and
automatically have this ability to experience anything easily.
And this as you realize, is quite the opposite of all of us who
picket. We are acting reactively, a slave to the reactive mind, in a
Fixed Condition, and we have hidden crimes because we are attacking
scientology. Our tone level is low, and our communications weak and
ineffective, hostile, and probably lies.
IMO, this slogan is nasty, like hitting below the belt to use it on
them. This is core stuff, basics. The essence of the glue that binds
them to the org. The unsung song they all hold dear in a local org.
What do you think, you walk in an org and they jump in the air in
ecstasy. They don't. You can even join staff, take a course, it
don't mean nothing. It takes time to win their trust, to become one
of them. One of the few, the hardy, the dedicated. The last bastion
of defense standing between life and a society in ruins.
They deal with the reactive mind on a daily basis, it is a way of life
for them. People walk in the org, wogs, and they don't even know how
to communicate properly <giggle giggle>, and it is funny to them. Not
that you will ever see them laugh over this, because it is a serious
business this downwards spiral of society. And you have to be one of
them before you are blessed with their wit and sarcasm.
And a few people out there, using variations of "thank you for saving
the planet today" could drive them to tears or violence. At least I
think so, but it hasn't really been tested well. But by no means
should the idea be negated. It should be tested. Carefully.
Phil Scott
well not entirely... Duke the dog could be rapelled down
the side of the building...or trolled by on a very long piece
of fishing line...from say 100 yards,
that would work...
Myself I prefer to walk into the place and say that I have
completed grade 0 and can communicate to anyone about
anything and then ask for a tour and a demo.
thats always interesting..the staff turnover is so high
they let just anyone in.
Dave? you should stop by someday and ask for a demo. Carry
your wallet stuffed full of folding money so it bulges...then
after you sit down to take the meter test look irritated and
grab your wallet out of your ass pocket and whap it onto the
table with a comfortable sigh.
they will spot the money instantly... a killer babe will
approach and look longingly into your eyes and ask what you do
for a living... tell em 'software conultant or I live on an
inheritance'..dont elaborate be very secretive about you
money... grab your wallet back and put it back into your
pocket.
that will work Dave... but you have to be real nice and NOT go
looking for high tension feeds into the meter, or ask about
the cages, or cigarettes curing cancer until the *very end.
Try to be standing near a door at that time.
Never bring these issues up when on the *cellar portion of the
tour or next to the electrical mains.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
hahahaha... thats funny. Nice going Ted.
Dave Bird
Um, again I say, there is no articficial requirement to walk up
and down in Britain: you can stand still.
>spring chicken. In addition, one is dealing with a random selection of
>the public, and in a position where one is freely accessible to said
>public, which can be very wearing, especially in the location where I
>picketed. Then there's the folks from the Org ordered to make it as
>unpleasant as possible on the picketers. It's work. Hard work.
It takes physical stamina but the rest is a stimulating challenge.
>
>I never had much in the way of expectations for my picketing. I thought
>that some people who read the leaflets or saw the signs would follow up
>and get more info. That seemed a satisfactory enough result for me.
>Anything else that resulted from the picketing, I wouldn't know about.
>As for the effect on members, who knows? Perhaps a few might wonder why
>a group with OT powers couldn't immediately make a picket go away. Maybe
>a couple might go look up xenu.net. But I'd never have any way of
>knowing about it. Mostly I guess I did it for myself, as it seemed the
>correct thing to be doing.
>
>Peach
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In article<MPG.1bd4fca23...@news2.lightlink.com>, Zinj
<zinj...@yahoo.com> writes:
>In article <g3bqYPDn...@xemu.demon.co.uk>,
>dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk says...
>
><snip>
>
>> It is only in America that pickets have to move back and forth;
>> in the UK they can stand still.
>
>This is not universally the case in the US either. Different locations
>have different rules. In general, and lacking specific information it's
>wise to keep moving.
>
>Also, US picketers generally accede to police 'requests', and always to
>demands. Civil disobedience has its place, but requires a well
>considered conviction and committment. In cases where the police make
>blatantly extra-legal demands, a formal complaint seems to me to be
>preferable to arguing with the 'cop on the scene'.
There are ways of handling this. PRIOR TO THE NEW LAW, there were
certain basic considerations I was very familiar with. It was always
best to start off, in effect, telling them and then asking if they had
further quieries: but showing a thorough knowledge of obstruction,
breach of the peace, etc. If they push their luck then you can
look very skeptical, ask for confirmation in writing, say you will
be consulting your solicitors on Monday, and so forth. We've seen
off a couple of bluffers in that way. If it becomes really
unreasonable then you keep objecting until it comes to the point
of "you obey this instruction or I will arrest you", and make
your choice between these two alternatives. Once or two it came
to the point where I was saying for two pins, I will provoke arrest.
This is once or twice across scores of demos, though. Generally
the police have been very reasonable with us.
>
><snip>
>
>> If you have any specific placard ideas, spit 'em out. But we
>> probably won't be able to use them direct at members, staff or public.
>
>I haven't seen any comment on my suggestion to picket using quotes from
>UK court decisions against ScientologyŽ on signs and in pamphlets. If
>expanded to Commonwealth courts, the selection gets much larger. And
>there's also the Foster Report.
>
>Some of that stuff is far nastier than commonly used picketing material,
>and would seem to suggest a higher legal protection.
>
>Zinj
Quoting privileged material is an approach we are considering.
In article<dhenm0lii142udjba...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>If someone hands me a flyer with partial court decisions on it, I
>would ask the person, calmly, and quite frankly, "what the fuck do you
>expect me to do with this?". I don't think much of this idea. It
>don't do nothing for me. Although maybe a partial court decision on
>Who vs Cares :)
Maybe we should always make clear in a leaflet context.
"The Church of Scientology did X and Y. We have been
threatened with arrest if we tell you in public what
we think of this. However, here is what Judge X said...."
In article<jpbnm0l56rgiveedg...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>And a few people out there, using variations of "thank you for saving
>the planet today" could drive them to tears or violence. At least I
>think so, but it hasn't really been tested well. But by no means
>should the idea be negated. It should be tested. Carefully.
Again, this is something we could consider.
Zinj
tedm...@despammed.com says...
> IMO an objective reading of her reports would show a gentle and
> thinking person. And yet, without doing an actual breakdown, I think
> she received as many or even more pickets done at her home, then she
> ever did against them. Which is quite interesting.
Oh? I couldn't agree with you more about Peaches, whom I've never met,
but who has consistently impressed me with her caring, tolerant and
honest human nature.
Unfortunately, that is *exactly* what 'set her up' as a designated
target for that series of 'Church' sponsored 'home pickets'. She *said*
that they bothered her. It's one of the most endearing aspects of her
'reports', not necessarilly of her own pickets, but of her own 'home
pickets' by 'Church' sponsored thugs. She admitted freely that she was
less than thrilled about the 'safety' of her neighborhood to start with,
but was actually disconcerted or even scared by having representatives
of a 'church' with a history of underhanded and even violent behavior
skulking around her home.
There's nothing that a bully or a thug or a jackal likes more than a
terrified 'victim', and at her admission, the 'Church' put her on the
top of the list for 'victims'.
It's not that Peaches was 'shuddered into silence' by the terrorism,
since her brand of courage is far beyond the ken of Kosmik Klams. After
all; Hubbard *promised* that such terror tactics would *always* work.
But like most of what Hubbard promised, it was empty; false; a figment
of his own terrified and diseased imagination.
But, *that's* why Peaches got hit hard. Harder than anyone else. She
honestly admitted to being frightened by the bullies. The lesson is that
she is courageous, and that *they* are slime.
> IMO, picket reports are the finest thing to come out of a ten year
> history of this ARS phenomena.
I try to avoid making 'best' or 'finest' calls, but picket reports are
certainly one of the wonderful elements that we must thank Scientology®
for.
Dave Bird
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:23:18 +0100, Dave Bird
><dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> Let me give you some insight into what actually happens. The
>> demonstrators are approximately in one small area. Two or three
>> police arrive, usually in a vehicle, and usually at a stand off
>> from the demonstrators. It is not clear whether they wish to
>> speak to us, or to some other nearby demo or leaflet table -- there
>> are several in New Street --
>
>
>>or perhaps a theft at a shop. If someone
>> has complained they will go to the complainant and ask their side 1st.
>> (This is something we have encouraged, since clams have made
>> anonymous and/or ridiculous complaints in the hope police will
>> approach us saying "we have been told your leaflets are obscene"
>> or whatever, rather than asking the complainant "show me one of
>> these leaflets, show me what is obscene about it").
>
>end discussing whether something on a flyer is actually obscene. And
>in a few moments, people of reason can easily agree a particular flyer
>is *not* obscene.
Um, I think we've missed each other here. Clams feel like putting in
a false complaint just to phonograph us bring approached by police.
We feel it makes more sense for the police to talk to the caller
and say "now, exactly what were you complaining about." They would
get quite annoyed with the caller if it were obviously rubbish.
>
>> Now, what are you suggesting? That we swarm towards the police as
>> they approach? That we disperse widely as they come near??
>>
>
>Don't really know what I'm saying anymore here.
Nor do I. I'm not sure what we're supposed to gain by "swarming"
or to where we swarm.
>For me it would be a
>tactical exercise, and I would have to know the area.
It looks pretty much the same in all cities we cover.
>Your police
>sound different than mine, although at the same time I feel the police
>in any civilized country would have about the same mind-set.
I don't know American cops. I suspect they are much MORE inclined
to force. UK cops are the same all over. I won't say they're not
capable of beating people up, but "poor inarticulate people" and
"no crowds around" would be a pre-requisite.
>
>> Yes, this is what happens. The senior organiser on the scene
>> speaks to them. Sometimes the number two organiser or other
>> clued up person is hovering as witness / advisor, but it is the
>> senior person's call because it is them who stands to be arrested
>> and held to account. There is not at this point any democratic
>> debate. The organiser tells pickets "this is what we will do."
>> If it is risky you say "anyone not prepared to do that should move
>> away now." If it is to cave in then you say "anyone who does
>> not leave with me now is no longer my responsibility."
>
>This sounds correct.
OK.
>
>>>
>>>The speech is simple and fast and assertive, something like this- "you
>>>can see we have no offensive picket signs, we are not shouting or
>>>yelling, and we have lawyers working on this anyway. The picket is
>>>listed until 4pm, that's only a few minutes from now, we are going to
>>>finish quietly and leave quickly, there is no problem."
>>
>> Well, you can try. I expect they will say "not for a minute can
>> you do X, Y, or Z which is against the new law."
>>>
>>>And me, at that point, I would walk away and not wait for an answer.
>>>And, I would have positioned the cop so that my back was to the picket
>>>site, so I could spin around and walk away and leave him/her looking
>>>at my back.
>>
>> (1) there will always be two of them, to act as witness / back-up
>> for each other.
>>
>> (2) I expect they will follow and say, "we haven't finished
>> talking to you -- we have to tell you A B and C first."
>>
>> It is inadvisable not to listen to an instruction. They will
>> simply make sure you hear it, and use threats or arrest if you disobey.
>
>Well, do something that will work then. IMO the best thing to do is
>put the picket signs in the closet for a few months. Look at the
>facts, be honest about the facts, and realize there is no point in
>doing a picket at this time.
No way, because that means forever: this is not a temporary thing.
>
>The orgs there don't care about you, and they don't need you
>whatsoever. All by themselves they will wipe themselves out just as
>they have done here in Vegas, LA and Clearwater.
>
>Let us look at another major city, Sydney, Australia. Pickets
>received at that org since 1996 are two. That's right, two pickets
>done at Sydney. Feb 2000 and December 1996.
>
>And what do the reports from TB tell us about this org?
>An Asian woman, mid 30's, lacking an Astrological sign, entered from
>the South.
>A Caucasian male, late 20's, thinking hidden thoughts, exited and
>turned to the right.
>A Caucasian woman, early 40's, her fingers on her hands, entered from
>the West.
>An Asian woman, late 40's, harboring harmless secrets she believes are
>horrible, enters from the east, does a back flip, and then exits.
>
>The point being even Sydney is wiped out, and that org has a busy
>location.
>
>> Unfortunately what you have missed is that there are not
>> new opportunities. You always have to negotiate the next
>> demo arrangements with EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON AS BEFORE
>> IN THAT CITY. If you move from city to city, you do not
>> build up any advantage in one place.
>>
>
>But you do move from city to city, the archives show this, it is
>undeniable.
I think you have missed the point. You say we can get away with
more and more, go away and try when it is a different cop next time.
Now, there is a problem here.
We could set the next three demos to be Birmingham, Birmingham,
and Birmingham. But it would not be a different cop each time,
you always get the same person in charge.
Or we could set the next three demos to be Brighton, Poole,
and Manchester. Then an advantage got at the first one
could not possibly carry over to the next one.
>
>>>They have big problems out there, real
>>>crimes going on. Something like this picket stuff is just a nuisance
>>>call for them, a waste of time. And they moved you with no problems
>>>whatsoever. A King Solomon solution to the problem.
>>
>> No it wasn't. It was what they had been told the new law mandated
>> them to do.
>
>I doubt this seriously, the law hasn't been out long enough for cut
>and dried distances to have been set in place. The org would like the
>picket moved, but they would like it moved to Siberia or someplace
>else that is far away. You of course, would not consider moving the
>picket that far away. The Courts would decide this issue, and not a
>few police pulling a shift that day in the streets.
Well precisely. It depends somewhat on what our lawyer's tell them,
the enemy's lawyers tell them, and their own lawyers tell them.
Their own lawyers would be in the Crown Prosecutor's (equivalent
of District Attorney's) office.
>
>>>And as far as all that email and crypto stuff, no.
>>>Thanks for the offer but I prefer open discussion of picket tactics.
>>
>> I don't. I'm asking everyone else from UK not to
>> respond on tactical information in public, from now on.
>>
>>>We are law abiding citizens and we are not discussing any illegal
>>>actions.
>>
>> Don't be dense. At any time your actions can be at risk when
>> tactics are disclosed, if the opponent is prepared to block them.
>>
>>>Concerns that the members could read things like this and
>>>prepare for them are not a calculation.
>>
>> I beg to differ. Anything said in public and useful to Saint Hill
>> will be picked up, and communicated to the 4 outer orgs concerned.
>>
>
>An open discussion of picket tactics is itself a guerilla tactic. A
>statement loud and bold that you have no concerns over the legal
>activity you will be engaging in. If they read it, then what you are
>saying is "I am coming to you", and they know you are coming, and that
>you are not afraid or concerned.
We are coming, and we are not afraid or concerned. But in Baseball
the captain signals the series of plays to his own people in a way
he hopes the opponent cannot read. He is not afraid either, but he
thinks he has more chance of winning if the opponent is taken by
surprise in the tactics used against him.
>And a properly laid in assault
>tactic is not defendable anyway, it cannot be stopped. And it is, or
>would be totally impossible for me anyway to type up all the many
>things I consider when I decide to do a picket. I'd be typing for a
>week to explain it all. And it probably wouldn't read coherently.
>
>I've been remarking these many years of the problems the UK crowd has
>in doing pickets. And you do have unique problems out there. Here in
>Vegas I had an advantage that only a few people in the world had, and
>I realize this. So excuse my uninformed beatings here, I only speak
>of tactics in general for the UK, and I have no idea of what the
>terrain actually is.
>
>Good luck out there.
>
>
>--
>Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In article<8manm09cchrjmp8sg...@4ax.com>, Ted Mayett
<tedm...@despammed.com> writes:
>On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:27:44 +0100, Dave Bird
><dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> It may be that I could have beaten Birmingham Org down single handed
>> if I were superman, able to go there many days a week all day etc
>
>Yes, that is what it takes to wipe out an org population. Many days a
>week, and many hours of commitment. One of the major guerrilla
>tactics I had used, not sure I ever posted about this, I would go to
>where they could see me from the org. Sometimes I would have to wait
>30 minutes or more to be spotted. Once I knew for sure I was spotted,
>and the person had gone inside, I would quickly drive away. Then I
>would usually come back in an hour or so and do a picket.
Sorry, nobody available to do this. I have not the strength.
There are other considerations probably best raised in private
if you wish to discuss them.
>
>> and also have comprehensive knowledge as an ex-member. I doubt it.
>> But certainly there is no way I would have had the health and
>> strength to do this. Sorry. It couldn't have happened.
>
>Well this explains everything. I always thought your health was a
>match to your wit and humor. Never suspected how far behind it
>lagged.
>
>So different your city and mine, a difference in health and abilities
>also. Case in point. A few times I called into the big org, told
>them when I would be there for a picket. They would be gathered and
>waiting and watching for me. I would park about two blocks away, and
>come in from the desert climbing fences and walls to get there. I'd
>sneak around from a direction they never expected, and surprise them.
>This one time, it really works well. I come in over the final wall,
>hug the side of the org, turn the corner of the building and I am
>right among them. They don't see me. I quickly get right next to
>them, and say "BOO". They jumped! Eyes wide, ready to scream in
>fright. ahh, such happy memories. The only thing I never did was
>repel down the side of the building from the roof to drop among them.
>And I thought of this always. But I would have had to drive a stake
>into the roof to support the rope that would support my weight, and
>that would be damage to property and so I never did that.
That sounds excellent, A bit difficult for us to duplicate as
most oRgs lack a nearby desert, but are on long straight roads
where you can only approach from (a) up the road or (b) down the
road, and either way you will be seen a long way off.
>
>Ummm, these were only the opening moves, once they were trained I
>turned respectful.
>
>> If there
>> were lots more people in Birmingham prepared for a high level of
>> commitment. There weren't any. If wishes were horses, beggars
>> would ride, but they don't. I don't think it could have gone any
>> differently given the resources available.
>
>Agreed.
>
>--
>Ted Mayett OT 1.1
>http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/links.htm
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In article<wWWad.12167$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, Phil Scott
<philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net> writes:
>> > If there
>> > were lots more people in Birmingham prepared for a high
>level of
>> > commitment. There weren't any. If wishes were horses,
>beggars
>> > would ride, but they don't. I don't think it could have
>gone any
>> > differently given the resources available.
>>
>> Agreed.
>
> well not entirely... Duke the dog could be rapelled down
>the side of the building...or trolled by on a very long piece
>of fishing line...from say 100 yards,
>
> that would work...
We could suddenly leap out a van like the 'A'-team, I suppose;
except that none of us have a van
>
>Myself I prefer to walk into the place and say that I have
>completed grade 0 and can communicate to anyone about
>anything and then ask for a tour and a demo.
> thats always interesting..the staff turnover is so high
>they let just anyone in.
>
>Dave? you should stop by someday and ask for a demo. Carry
>your wallet stuffed full of folding money so it bulges...then
>after you sit down to take the meter test look irritated and
>grab your wallet out of your ass pocket and whap it onto the
>table with a comfortable sigh.
They know me too well now, I wouldn't get away with it.
I took a friend up there once, asked to see History of Man,
and asked him what he thought of the section I was reading
out (the Clam). I couldn;t reduce him to a fit of giggles.
>
>they will spot the money instantly... a killer babe will
>approach and look longingly into your eyes and ask what you do
>for a living... tell em 'software conultant or I live on an
>inheritance'..dont elaborate be very secretive about you
>money... grab your wallet back and put it back into your
>pocket.
>
>that will work Dave... but you have to be real nice and NOT go
>looking for high tension feeds into the meter, or ask about
>the cages, or cigarettes curing cancer until the *very end.
>Try to be standing near a door at that time.
>
>Never bring these issues up when on the *cellar portion of the
>tour or next to the electrical mains.
--
____ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ \_ ___..
.-''/(::::("_o(*)::("_o(*)::("_o''/(*)::("_o(*)::("_o'(*):::(@__o
/\~~/\ /\~~/\ /\~~/\ /\~~/\ /\~~/\ /\~~~/\
If you're not the lead huskie, then the view never changes.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
It's all in the quality of the recruits you attract! Which is what
makes the present-day Cult of Scientology the refuge of clapped-out
thugs & loons too dim to wake up and smell the barn's on fire -XEMU
Zinj
philsc...@sf.sbcglobal.net says...
>
> "Dave Bird" <dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> > Now given that
> > (a) we don't have you or Keith Henson
> > (b) I am tired and ill and in and out of hospital
>
> Hang in there pal. If you kick off earlier though we will
> have a Great world wide picket in your honor. You have been
> one of a kind...a true gentleman and a scholar. Duke can be
> pulled by on a string and a new orleans dirge starting slow
> and ending at full boogie will be played.
Heh.
Since Dave is one of these silly 'materialists' and almost dogmatic 'if
I can't see it it can't exist' types... I doubt that he could
philosophically accept post-morten recognition as any more valuable than
a public buggering by Davey the Dwarf Himself.
Yet, I suspect he has some deeply hidden satisfaction that he will be
remembered for sneering at the right places in the screenplay.
Not that he's dead *yet* (or done sneering) :)
Phil Scott
> Maybe we should always make clear in a leaflet context.
>
> "The Church of Scientology did X and Y. We have been
> threatened with arrest if we tell you in public what
> we think of this. However, here is what Judge X said...."
Now that seems like a workable approach...
Some way to get a few short questions in view of the org staff
would be hot.
The law cant keep you from walking though there with a tee
shirt on, can they?
Even a long red pole with a big floppy rubber chicken on
top...then a totally blank sign would get the staff
thinking...
You could put "Does it REALLY cost 160,000 pounds?
what the hell...its all about the chicken after all.. nothing
to do with scientology officer.
Let em take that to court. It would be called the rubber
chicken case...you would arrive with the rubber chicken pole..
and maybe big foam rubber chicken feet on.
All part of the case...evidence and all.
The news papers could cover it.
Btw thanks for that huge order :)
Phil Scott
realpch
>
> In article <2fnom09ntnpddpo9r...@4ax.com>,
> tedm...@despammed.com says...
>
> > IMO an objective reading of her reports would show a gentle and
> > thinking person. And yet, without doing an actual breakdown, I think
> > she received as many or even more pickets done at her home, then she
> > ever did against them. Which is quite interesting.
Gee, I don't know. Maybe the Org was doing some kind of count and trying
to balance the books. You know how they feel about "out exchange".
> Oh? I couldn't agree with you more about Peaches, whom I've never met,
> but who has consistently impressed me with her caring, tolerant and
> honest human nature.
Hmmm. Let's not nominate me for sainthood yet. My family, who *have* met
me, would not agree.
> Unfortunately, that is *exactly* what 'set her up' as a designated
> target for that series of 'Church' sponsored 'home pickets'. She *said*
> that they bothered her. It's one of the most endearing aspects of her
> 'reports', not necessarilly of her own pickets, but of her own 'home
> pickets' by 'Church' sponsored thugs. She admitted freely that she was
> less than thrilled about the 'safety' of her neighborhood to start with,
> but was actually disconcerted or even scared by having representatives
> of a 'church' with a history of underhanded and even violent behavior
> skulking around her home.
I have a couple of comments here. When they started coming around
(actually even before), I was worried about the safety of my cats. But
nothing ever happened, so I'd say based on my experiences, your pets are
safe if you picket.
What these home pickets are actually designed to do is to get your
neighbors set against you. And in a neighborhood such as mine was at the
time, and me being who I am, I certainly didn't need any more targeting
than I already had. But it didn't quite work out for them. Though there
was a very strong drug culture presence on the street at that time, I
had interacted with those folks kids, whom I liked. The Big Drug House
and the Little Drug House did not take kindly to Scientologists lurking
around the neighborhood, especially after dark. I believe Barb had the
same experience!
: )
> There's nothing that a bully or a thug or a jackal likes more than a
> terrified 'victim', and at her admission, the 'Church' put her on the
> top of the list for 'victims'.
The home pickets target you as a victim, so that your neighbors will
finish up the job, if you have that kind of neighbors. Remember Kevin
from Sacramento who had his apartment building picketed, and had to stop
picketing for fear of being thrown out.
And do not discount the factor of whether or not anyone is hanging
around the Org fired up with enthusiasm, ablaze with ambition, and with
spare time on their hands, available for such performances. In my case,
it mainly came down to one fanatical guy hanging around.
I remember the nice couple who picketed me one day. They were really
nice people, you could tell. Unlike most of the others who had been by,
they just didn't belong there, they shouldn't have been doing it. Well,
the others shouldn't have been doing it either, but they weren't very
nice. When these people left, I walked around the corner and found them
getting in their van, and I took a picture of the license plate. There
were of course plenty of parking spaces on my street. They made a show
of turning around and driving away back down my street, but I think they
were embarrassed, and they never came back. Hurray for them, I say.
; )
> It's not that Peaches was 'shuddered into silence' by the terrorism,
> since her brand of courage is far beyond the ken of Kosmik Klams. After
> all; Hubbard *promised* that such terror tactics would *always* work.
>
> But like most of what Hubbard promised, it was empty; false; a figment
> of his own terrified and diseased imagination.
>
> But, *that's* why Peaches got hit hard. Harder than anyone else. She
> honestly admitted to being frightened by the bullies. The lesson is that
> she is courageous, and that *they* are slime.
It is unpleasant to know that someone who does not wish you well is
lurking around your house. Intellectually you know that they probably
will not do any damage to you or your property, but emotionally of
course it's another matter. I don't know how courageous I am, but I
certainly can be stubborn. By the way, Jour got even more home pickets
than I did.
> > IMO, picket reports are the finest thing to come out of a ten year
> > history of this ARS phenomena.
I've always enjoyed everyone's picket reports, and I've always read all
of them.
> I try to avoid making 'best' or 'finest' calls, but picket reports are
> certainly one of the wonderful elements that we must thank ScientologyŽ
> for.
>
> Zinj
> --
> You can lead a Clam to Reason, but you Can't Make him Think
Yes, the picket reports were wonderful, though things seem to have
mainly moved to other arenas of late.
Peach
Ted Mayett
<dave.xemu...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I'm talked out. And it don't mean nothing anyway. The big org here
in Vegas is wiped out all by itself, and that is a fact.