The Return of Stacy Brooks
henri
Dennis L Erlich
Wow! Still a believer! And suckophant of Rinder and Rathbun.
Why am I not surprised? This is what becoming the poster child for
critics can do to people recently out who don't tend to their own
recovery.
D
-----------------
"I was one of those." - Leonard Cohen
Android Cat
news:eqbik59atjt6mokuq...@4ax.com...
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
So what's an email that's supposed to be between Stacy Brooks and Marty
Rathbun doing pasted to that page?
It's still there, btw:
http://pastebin.ca/1741852
Pastebin:
This is a public place to paste things (primarily configurations and source
code), but it is really open to pretty much any text format. The idea is to
paste large items here when talking online to someone, or even when holding
a phone conversation to paste the little things that are hard to explain.
For a list of features, see the features page.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Patty Pieniadz
> "henri" <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:eqbik59atjt6mokuq...@4ax.com...
>> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
>
> So what's an email that's supposed to be between Stacy Brooks and
> Marty Rathbun doing pasted to that page?
>
> It's still there, btw:
> http://pastebin.ca/1741852
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/moving-on-up-a-little-higher/
Marty says that OSA hacked his blog and put email up.
Per Marty:
"As I reported at the end of December, my email and blog
were hacked into. The blog was taken down by the invaders.
I have just learned that at least one email that was sent to
me in early December has been posted on an internet site.
These acts constitute felonies under law."
It doesn't make sense, why would OSA put this up?
It clearly shows that Stacy is trying to keep Marty away
from DM and distracting Marty by getting him to
"help others" instead of going after DM.
Tigger
> henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
> Wow! Still a believer! And suckophant of Rinder and Rathbun.
>
> Why am I not surprised? This is what becoming the poster child for
> critics can do to people recently out who don't tend to their own
> recovery.
>
> D
>
> -----------------
>
> "I was one of those." - Leonard Cohen
Well looks like Brooks is still "consulting" Rinder. I wonder if
Brooks' "advice" to Rathbun in any way violates the deal Minton and
Brooks made with CO$.
Quote:
Mike and I had a conversation a few weeks back that came to mind
when
I read your appeal for input about this recent news story. I told
him
it had been my feeling at the LMT that if we had any chance of
helping
the people inside Scientology it would be by gathering evidence of
DM's criminal behavior and getting him prosecuted. Mike said
something
I will never forget (and I am sure the two of you have talked about
this subject, so this will not be a new idea to you). He said that
getting an agency to pay serious attention t......end of quote
rhill
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Could this be fake -- like a sort of sinister warning? (Although Mike
Rinder could confirm whether he really talked to Stacy Young.)
/=====
...
With your compassionate big heart and humble spirit, born of your own
well known experiences,
...
If I knew then what I know now, I would never have tried to beat DM at
his own game. I never had a chance because it wasn't what I wanted to be
doing. I'm not a warrior. As you said, I'm a techie. That's all I've
ever wanted to be. You told me that's what you want to be, too. And you
are such a gifted techie! That is what is needed more than anything. So
I wish you would leave the attacks to other people and concentrate on
helping people with the tech.
\=====
If this was not fake, I would find the above disturbing. Almost sound as
"let DM destroys the others who are exposing him, as these people do not
have big heart and humble spirit like you"...
Eldon
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418...
I guess this is supposed to be the e-mail Marty says was copied from
his hacked account and posted to "a website." But how does anybody
know it's not a forgery? For one thing, her ostensible support of the
"tech" seems to contradict some of her previous statements.
Monica Pignotti
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418...
First Scientology, then Bob Minton and now it's Marty. Poor Stacy. She
just can't seem to kick the habit of following charismatic leaders and
she changes with each one like a chameleon, rewriting her history
(saying she never really wanted to be fighting DM, for example). At
first I thought she had just flipped from being under pressure with
the CofS, but from the looks of what she's written here, it looks like
she has really come to believe in it once again.
While she may have a point that it's difficult to bring down DM, with
all the recent defectors, there's never been a better chance than
there is right now, but DM should be very grateful for people like
Stacy.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> Android Cat wrote:
> > "henri" <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:eqbik59atjt6mokuq...@4ax.com...
>
> > So what's an email that's supposed to be between Stacy Brooks and
> > Marty Rathbun doing pasted to that page?
>
> > It's still there, btw:
> >http://pastebin.ca/1741852
>
>
> Marty says that OSA hacked his blog and put email up.
>
> Per Marty:
>
> "As I reported at the end of December, my email and blog
> were hacked into. The blog was taken down by the invaders.
> I have just learned that at least one email that was sent to
> me in early December has been posted on an internet site.
> These acts constitute felonies under law."
>
> It doesn't make sense, why would OSA put this up?
> It clearly shows that Stacy is trying to keep Marty away
> from DM and distracting Marty by getting him to
> "help others" instead of going after DM.
I think OSA would put it up because they're thrilled with her
attitude. If they could get more defectors to go the way Stacy has
gone, they would win.
Monica Pignotti
I wondered the same thing, but in reading it, it does really look like
her unique style of writing so if someone did forge this, they really
did a good job. She had already flipped in court and so it wouldn't be
so unbelievable if she came to believe once again in the Scientology
tech. Her cult-like behavior when she was with Minton had always cast
doubts for me about her recovery, so why not the tech as well? This
really isn't the contradiction it appears to be.
Monica
Monica
Eldon
Doesn't sound like her writing style to me. Also, I don't see why she
would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
delusional.
Android Cat
"Monica Pignotti" <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:6015c68d-3f90-411f...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Win = last man standing on the bridge of a sinking ship.
A small win against Marty isn't going to save them.
Android Cat
news:655801cf-fd0b-4d7d...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 10, 3:26 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> I wondered the same thing, but in reading it, it does really look like
>> her unique style of writing so if someone did forge this, they really
>> did a good job. She had already flipped in court and so it wouldn't be
>> so unbelievable if she came to believe once again in the Scientology
>> tech. Her cult-like behavior when she was with Minton had always cast
>> doubts for me about her recovery, so why not the tech as well? This
>> really isn't the contradiction it appears to be.
>
> would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
>
> Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> delusional.
In that scenario, he'd have to be certain that Stacy Brooks wouldn't
resurface to deny that she sent the email. Marty would be in a position to
know if she was gagged from communicating on topics Scientological after the
LMT debacle. I don't subscribe to any theory yet, but all we have so far is
Marty confirming the email, and I sure don't trust him.
"During my tenure in the church there was one standard we nearly always
adhered to. That was do not commit acts recognized as criminal under
existing statutes."
Stupid delusional fucker. (Even allowing for gaps in his tenure due to
quality RPF re-education time.) Just think about the low-level but
continuous criminals acts committed against critics during that time...
rhill
I hadn't thought of that one other possibility. He did it himself to
stoke more followers against DM?
It's not unlikely he would be referring to himself as "big hearted" and
"humble spirit," I mean he didn't feel like (humbly) correcting the
record when one follower said of him "What Marty has brought [...] is a
steadfast and singular idea of non-violence." (ref.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/b01d071832a22d40#)
Countless people have opposed Scientology peacefully for decades (and
some paid a price for doing so) before he came late on the scene in
2009, but his humility forbid him to share the credit.
I don't know how to read headers, but wasn't the mail posted from
Ireland (http://www.eircom.net/)?
rhill
And it should never be strictly about not engaging in "criminal acts,"
it should be about not engaging in ethically/morally reprehensible acts.
Asking people to forfeit their right to speak up about their own
experience in Scientology is not "criminal," but it certainly is
ethically/morally reprehensible to ask people to forfeit freedom of
speech even if it is about a single topic.
henri
<androi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"During my tenure in the church there was one standard we nearly always
>adhered to. That was do not commit acts recognized as criminal under
>existing statutes."
>Stupid delusional fucker. (Even allowing for gaps in his tenure due to
>quality RPF re-education time.) Just think about the low-level but
>continuous criminals acts committed against critics during that time...
Nice language. "Nearly always." In other words, we didn't commit
crimes except when we committed crimes.
Eldon
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:655801cf-fd0b-4d7d...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 3:26 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >> I wondered the same thing, but in reading it, it does really look like
> >> her unique style of writing so if someone did forge this, they really
> >> did a good job. She had already flipped in court and so it wouldn't be
> >> so unbelievable if she came to believe once again in the Scientology
> >> tech. Her cult-like behavior when she was with Minton had always cast
> >> doubts for me about her recovery, so why not the tech as well? This
> >> really isn't the contradiction it appears to be.
>
> > Doesn't sound like her writing style to me. Also, I don't see why she
> > would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
>
> > Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> > composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> > excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> > way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> > delusional.
>
> In that scenario, he'd have to be certain that Stacy Brooks wouldn't
> resurface to deny that she sent the email. Marty would be in a position to
> know if she was gagged from communicating on topics Scientological after the
> LMT debacle.
I made that assumption. We haven't heard a peep out her since the
"settlement," have we? But of course, I'm just a nasty ol' cynic by
nature.
Voltaire's Child
"Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7e917$4b49f258$adce39c0$24...@PRIMUS.CA...
>
> In that scenario, he'd have to be certain that Stacy Brooks wouldn't
> resurface to deny that she sent the email. Marty would be in a position
> to know if she was gagged from communicating on topics Scientological
> after the LMT debacle. I don't subscribe to any theory yet, but all we
> have so far is Marty confirming the email, and I sure don't trust him.
>
> "During my tenure in the church there was one standard we nearly always
> adhered to. That was do not commit acts recognized as criminal under
> existing statutes."
>
> Stupid delusional fucker. (Even allowing for gaps in his tenure due to
> quality RPF re-education time.) Just think about the low-level but
> continuous criminals acts committed against critics during that time...
>
Plus child neglect, starvation of staff, preventing people from leaving
(unlawful detainer/kidnapping) and even manslaughter.
Oh, no, hardly any criminal acts *there*.
C
Voltaire's Child
>I guess this is supposed to be the e-mail Marty >says was copied from
>his hacked account and posted to "a website." >But how does anybody
>know it's not a forgery? For one thing, her >ostensible support of the
>"tech" seems to contradict some of her previous >statements.
Or it could indicate that she talks out both sides of her ass...I mean
mouth...I mean keyboard...
C
Gregory Hall
news:7qsrfj...@mid.individual.net...
Idiots! It isn't OSA doing the hacking. . . You don't think OSA, if they
hacked in, would do anything but continue to quietly use their access to
gather incriminating evidence? What kind of a dummy would cause their
valuable access to be shut off?
Nope! Poor Marty has been had by somebody he trusts. Marty is a turncoat and
what goes around comes around. Can you say "Karma?"
--
Gregory Hall
Gregory Hall
Monica
======================================
[REPLY]
Clueless twit! Somebody is yanking your strings, Ms. Marionette! You and
all the others who readily believe paranoid conspiracy theories. What you
say about them please apply to yourselves. If that isn't clear enough for
you try this: "if the shoe fits, wear it."
--
Gregory Hall
Monica Pignotti
Having known Stacy and interacted quite a bit with her in person, it
really does sound exactly like Stacy to have talked to them on the
phone. She's a very outgoing individual and is very open to reaching
out to and speaking to all kinds of people and it would be just like
her to want to talk to Mike and Marty, now that they have left. It's
possible, of course, for Marty to have composed it, but this letter
and the way it is written is very consistent with Stacy and her
personality.
Monica
Dennis L Erlich
>Or it could indicate that she talks out both sides of her ass...I mean
>mouth...I mean keyboard...
All three sides, in Stacy's case.
D
ps. I was never one of those.
rhill
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Timeline (GMT time, although I can't tell what is the timezone of the
timestamp associated with each comment of a blog post -- looks GMT to me):
60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s
People have been criticizing Scientology, often with a dearly paid price
7 Feb 2009
Marty Rathbun resurface:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=30115
1 July 2009
Marty Rathbun starts a new blog:
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/hello-world/
Blog is mostly dedicated to expose David Miscavige, to bitch about those
who criticize LRH/Scientology, and to make a point that there is a
growing number of pro-Scientology independent followers who contact him
3 Dec 2009 13:56:41 +0000
Allegedly, Stacy Brooks email Marty Rathbun
(http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us#)
23 Dec 2009 (circa 03:18 as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun posts "Brisbane Independent � Lise O�Kane," which raised
many inconvenient questions from onlookers:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15485
Oops
28 Dec 2009 (circa 23:30? as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun posts that his blog has been hacked into
(http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/this-blog-has-been-hacked/#)
29 Dec 2009 (circa 19:02? as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun announces that his AOL account (sthtex...@aol.com) has
been hacked
(http://martyrathbun09.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/aol-account-hijacked/#)
6 Jan 2010 (circa 03:06? as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun recovers is original blog.
(http://martyrathbun09.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/were-back/)
The "Lisa O'Kane" post is *not* recovered on the blog, *but* someone
posted what appear as the original content of the O'Kane post along with
what appears to be the original comments, and Marty Rathbun allows it:
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/this-blog-has-been-hacked/#comment-7743
7 Jan 2010 20:56:39 +0000 (1:56:39pm MST)
Someone (allegedly the malicious hacker) posts the allegedly leaked
email (which content is flattering to Marty Rathbun) to pastebin.
Possibly putting Stacy Brooks in a bit of trouble, depending of the
settlement agreement she has with Church of Scientology -- assuming
there is one.)
9 Jan 2010 (circa 17:54? as per first comment)
On his blog, Marty Rathbun posts (excerpt): "I sincerely apologize to
those who have communicated to me at my posted aol address
(sthtex...@aol.com) whose privacy rights have been compromised"
(http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/moving-on-up-a-little-higher/#)
-- in effect *causing* people to google "sthtex...@aol.com" and find
the 'leaked' email
Soon thereafter, the leaked email is found, and henri posted a link to
it to ARS.
Astrid
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418...
I hope it's a fake. I've watched so many of her interviews and videos.
I guess she did them in obligation to the LM trust but even so.
What could DM have had to do with Stacy's belief that OTIII was
designed as a trap, and made her feel rather scared and uncomfortable
that she has these clusters all over her?
If it's from the real Stacy, I'm disappointed. What is it about
Scilons that they can't keep two concepts in their mind at once.
1. LRH created a mind-warping system to take advantage of people.
2. DM took advantage of it in his desire for power over people trapped
by it.
What was DM supposed to do? Let the drunk/gambler/womanizer bad
business person Pat Broeker take over and watch the scam collapse? Was
he supposed to just let everyone free and let them do Sciloontology in
their living rooms. How do you perpetuate a scam that relies so
heavily on all these controls and repressive policies. It was bound to
end after LRH croaked anyway. Scientology needed a brutal dictator
and it got one. A nice person running this ship of fools would have
been eaten up within the first ten or twenty years after LRH's death.
It would have just fallen apart. It is the force and coercion that
kept people paying up, and donating big sums of money.
Gregory Hall
> Having known Stacy and interacted quite a bit with her in person,
Is that your Ph.D. education showing, Monica? Interacting with her in
person? Bwahahhahaha. Maybe you can use some mythical OT power to interact
with people in abstentia?
> it
> really does sound exactly like Stacy to have talked to them on the
> phone. She's a very outgoing individual and is very open to reaching
> out to and speaking to all kinds of people and it would be just like
> her to want to talk to Mike and Marty, now that they have left.
It sounds to me like Ph.D.s are experts at being verbose but clueless when
attempting to write a concise sentence. A literate person would have written
something like this:
"Being verbally outgoing, Stacy would indeed desire to phone them."
> It's
> possible, of course, for Marty to have composed it, but this letter
> and the way it is written is very consistent with Stacy and her
> personality.
How about:
"This letter matches Stacy's style."
The higher the education; the more unwieldy the prose! Why is that?
--
Gregory Hall
Tigger
> On Jan 10, 3:26 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 6:07 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 10, 2:37 am, henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > >http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418...
>
> > > I guess this is supposed to be the e-mail Marty says was copied from
> > > his hacked account and posted to "a website." But how does anybody
> > > know it's not a forgery? For one thing, her ostensible support of the
> > > "tech" seems to contradict some of her previous statements.
>
> > I wondered the same thing, but in reading it, it does really look like
> > her unique style of writing so if someone did forge this, they really
> > did a good job. She had already flipped in court and so it wouldn't be
> > so unbelievable if she came to believe once again in the Scientology
> > tech. Her cult-like behavior when she was with Minton had always cast
> > doubts for me about her recovery, so why not the tech as well? This
> > really isn't the contradiction it appears to be.
>
> > Monica
>
> Doesn't sound like her writing style to me. Also, I don't see why she
> would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
Why are you, Eldon, presuming it's "suddenly"? The SpTimes some time
ago wrote:
Quote:
"Rinder,who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and
disgusting," now considers him a friend." end of quote
If Minton and Rinder are/were "friends", wouldn't that mean Brooks and
Rinder are friends too and have been for some time? Friends talk on
the telephone......so considering this, I don't think talkin on the
phone with Rinder would be "suddenly".
The question is how long Rinder and Minton/Brooks have been
friends...i.e. talking on the phone, etc. During or after the deal
with CO$ or after Rinder got out of the (spit) "church"?
>
> Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> delusional.- Hide quoted text -
LOL....and you think Stacy Brooks is not?
Tigger
> - Show quoted text -
Android Cat
news:hid5pu$kpe$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> henri wrote:
>> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
>
> Timeline (GMT time, although I can't tell what is the timezone of the
> timestamp associated with each comment of a blog post -- looks GMT to me):
>
> 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s
> People have been criticizing Scientology, often with a dearly paid price
Between 8 Sept and 22 Sept, 2005
Any mention of Marty Rathbun and Warren McShane are scrubbed off of CoS/RTC
sites in a top priority Unpersonning project.
/===
Significantly, they dropped the ball on the re-registration of 60 org
domains around September 10th that took weeks for them to straighten out,
simple technical problems, suggesting that key people/resources were busy or
unavailable during that time. (I'd say key computer people, but with CoS,
the lack of availability of the proper higher authority to sign off on work
could do the same.)
\===
> 7 Feb 2009
> Marty Rathbun resurface:
> http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=30115
>
>
> 1 July 2009
> Marty Rathbun starts a new blog:
> http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/hello-world/
> Blog is mostly dedicated to expose David Miscavige, to bitch about those
> who criticize LRH/Scientology, and to make a point that there is a growing
> number of pro-Scientology independent followers who contact him
>
>
> 3 Dec 2009 13:56:41 +0000
> Allegedly, Stacy Brooks email Marty Rathbun
> (http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us#)
>
>
> 23 Dec 2009 (circa 03:18 as per first comment)
> Marty Rathbun posts "Brisbane Independent � Lise O�Kane," which raised
Astrid
> henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> >http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418...
>
>
> Why am I not surprised? This is what becoming the poster child for
> critics can do to people recently out who don't tend to their own
> recovery.
>
into her work from Minton/LM trust didn't seem to be doing much. Yet,
she looks at Marty and thinks he is getting a lot of people out, and
she wants to see that continue.
It wasn't Stacy or Minton's failure, or even Marty that is the real
breakthrough in cult-busting, it is the internet. DM didn't ruin
Scientology all on his own. The internet and all the former members
(including Marty) and other critics communicating on the internet is
what will ruin Scientology. The truth about the abuses and the mind
trap of the system is unstoppable on the internet as each year it
plays a bigger part in people lives and decisions.
The internet will also allow for a more viable FZ practice of
Sciloontology, but I believe that will fade quickly too, or at least
be a lot less harmful to people than signing a billion year contract
or getting drained of their life savings.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
"win" means they can count this ploy of using Stacy to neutralize
Marty a bit, on OSA Int's "Effective Handling" statistics in response
to all the negative Scientology image stats that Marty has caused.
Marty's gotta be the biggest stat loser for them, in the "Negative
Scientology Images" statistic department, in a decade.
It's a superficial "stat" win. OSA has now done something
"effective" for their stats.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> Doesn't sound like her writing style to me. Also, I don't see why she
> would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
>
Remember she used to work at ASI in the early to mid 1980s, when Marty
also worked at ASI, both of them under DM who was Chairman of the
Board ASI back then.
Marty, Stacy, Vaughn, Greg Wilhere, Norman Starkey, Lyman Spurlock,
they all worked at ASI in the mid 1980s.
They are "old buddies" to some extent.
Chuck Beatty
(I later was ASI staff from 1992-1995, saw the ASI LRH despatch
traffic to Vaughn and about Vaughn, from LRH.)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> It doesn't make sense, why would OSA put this up?
> It clearly shows that Stacy is trying to keep Marty away
> from DM and distracting Marty by getting him to
> "help others" instead of going after DM.
Yes.
I recall a story, which I've said on ARS before, of when Greg Wilhere
went to "handle" another senior defector from ASI, and Greg told that
defected ASI staffer that Greg understood how messed up it was that DM
did whatever lambasting violent thing that DM did. And Greg was just
asking the ASI staffer to basically cool it about attacking DM back or
going public about it.
It's the same exact flow.
And also, in the legal aggreements which ex senior people sign, there
is this odd clause which says that the church will come to the aide of
the ex member in legal matters when it comes to dealing with
suppressive enemies of the church. That is the loophole that lets
the church give okay to someone like Stacy to do something like reach
out to help "handle" someone.
On the other hand, I was initially struck that this was legitimate,
based on Stacy's flip-flopping already, like Dennis commented. I
initially didn't think she was doing this at OSA's direction or
request to handle Marty.
She's got old buddies, Moxon was her old buddy. And Marty and her
and the others were all ASI staffers, during heady days when the ASI
stats were "out the roof", sheesh.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
>
> If this was not fake, I would find the above disturbing. Almost sound as
> "let DM destroys the others who are exposing him, as these people do not
> have big heart and humble spirit like you"...
Yea, as if it is okay to let Hitler alone since it is impossible to
defeat him at his own game, or something.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
don't forget Stacy knows Marty, they worked together in the heady days
when ASI's stats really good, and LRH showered all sorts of praise on
ASI staff in the 1980s, I've read the despatch traffic.
They've worked together during those years, they go back a long
ways. They both were part of the elite top top clique, ASI was LRH's
org, for profit, flogging "LRH's properties", and I wish we had the
ASI LRH despatch traffic in the public domain.
Astrid
wrote:
> Remember she used to work at ASI in the early to mid 1980s, when Marty
> also worked at ASI, both of them under DM who was Chairman of the
> Board ASI back then.
>
> Marty, Stacy, Vaughn, Greg Wilhere, Norman Starkey, Lyman Spurlock,
> they all worked at ASI in the mid 1980s.
>
> They are "old buddies" to some extent.
>
I forgot it. Thanks for the reminder.
These relationships confuse me. Jason Beghe says the essence of
scientology is to lie, OTIII is crap, and then Geir Isene bonds to
him, and says he's the brightest m'r f'r he's ever met, or whatever.
Then everyone erects a big portrait of LRH and begins Hip Hip
Hurraying?
I gathered that Minton was a great guy who got scared out of his wits
when crazy cult started going after one or more of his family. But I
don't understand the Rinder/Minton bonding, unless its something like
Patty Hearst/Stockholm syndrome.
Stacy should realize that if she and Marty were working under LRH, it
probably would have been much the same for them. The slapping thing
alone just doesn't make that much difference between DM and LRH, not
when LRH was throwing kids in chain lockers, and locking people in the
Ft. Harrison basement RPF for "bad thoughts about Hubbard," or even
couldn't prevent the suicide of his own son with the magickal tech.
Dennis L Erlich
>Perhaps what Stacey felt is that all she put
>into her work from Minton/LM trust didn't seem to be doing much.
And she'd be right.
What a ridiculous idea! Putting your anti-cult HQ within spitting
distance from the cult. Then engaging in stupid confrontations
requiring continual police intervention.
But hey! Mintonbux spoke louder than common sense and the best advice
of friends.
Not so loud now, tho.
D
--------------------
"When there's too much of nothing,
it just makes a fella mean" - B. Dylan
Dennis L Erlich
>OSA has now done something
>"effective" for their stats.
That is, if the "hack" was even genuine. Let alone spawned by OSA.
And not at Marty the "Terminator's" own instigation.
Professional liars, practiced in the art, do not enjoy the presumption
of truth.
At least not by me.
D
----------------
"All the people involved were not following the laws ...
were not allowing me to have my civil rights." - anonymous ex-scieno
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> don't understand the Rinder/Minton bonding, unless its something like
> Patty Hearst/Stockholm syndrome.
>
No, I think it is human remorse. If you recall in Marty's blog months
ago, Marty came to Mike's defense, saying Mike was going around and
making up for what he'd done.
It's possible, that like that one Bourne movie, Jason (Mike Rinder)
goes to the descendent of one of Jason's (Mike's) victims, to
apologize and tell the truth.
Might be some private apologizing going on.
Dennis L Erlich
>I
>initially didn't think she was doing this at OSA's direction or
>request to handle Marty.
Anything to get the heat off the Poodle is doing his bidding. That's
Job Number One and in this case, Stacey is doing the job for (*).
Whether she is doing it at his behest is secondary. But I'm sure DM
is pleased to have her help.
So you finger out why she's doing it. At best it's a simply a symptom
of an extremely flawed character. At worst, she is obligated, like
you say, to assist DM.
Dennis L Erlich
>The question is how long Rinder and Minton/Brooks have been
>friends...i.e. talking on the phone, etc. During or after the deal
>with CO$ or after Rinder got out of the (spit) "church"?
See, that's the thing about flip-floppers. When did they start
straddling the razorwire?
Hartley Patterson
> It doesn't make sense, why would OSA put this up?
That's something of a no brainer - to reignite all the old Minton
flamewars! It's that old blind spot the culties have again, they think
disagreement is weakness.
As I read it, she's advising Marty that HE is not the person to lead a
direct attack on DM, not saying that it's a bad idea in principle. Well
that's her view, we can discuss it to death no doubt.
Since the LMT's time the cult has become weaker, the opposition to it
stronger and what didn't work then has a much better chance of succeeding
now. My 2 cents says going for DM now is A right thing to do but not the
ONLY thing to do, attacking on all fronts and opening as many new ones as
possible is the way to go.
--
FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
Religious Technology Center
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> alone just doesn't make that much difference between DM and LRH, not
> when LRH was throwing kids in chain lockers, and locking people in the
> Ft. Harrison basement RPF for "bad thoughts about Hubbard," or even
> couldn't prevent the suicide of his own son with the magickal tech.
And DON'T forget, Homer Schomer was the treasury secretary of ASI, and
Stacy was there when DM had the whole of ASI staff spit on Homer, one
after the other, this is in the court records of Homer's case. I
asked a former ASI Staffer who was there when they all, one by one,
spit on Homer, and Norman Starkey was using chewing tobacco, to make
his spit even more disgusting and demeaning, and the former ASI
staffer confirmed it. Also another has privately confirmed it who
was there when Homer was spit on.
And the LRH despatch that justified the spitting, and realize this is
1982, this is right date coincident with ASI's forming, was the LRH
despatch to I think DM who was Int/S Mission In Charge, over the Int
Base, and it said "...and if you see John Aczel, spit on him for
me..."
Larry Brennan was there, saw lots of the roughing up of people at that
time in 1982, and Jesse Prince was present at that spitting on John
Aczel, and also Roger Barnes, I asked Roger, and he confirmed the
spitting not only John Aczel by DM, but DM spit on Roger also, and DM
both slugged John Aczel and Roger, per Roger.
SO this violence outrage, blame your fellow staffer for their goofs,
and "spit" on them, and clobber them, the reference for clobbering
someone, the "...black eye...." tech is ALSO date coincident, it is
the 1982 , is the "Knowledge Reports" policy by Hubbard stating if a
staffer is sticking pins in other staff, that in an "in ethics"
organization, that the staffer who is sticking pins in other staff
would receive a "black eye" .
So the violence IS Hubbard despatch traffic and it IS policy, all
vintage 1982 tough guy policy, coincident ALSO with the whole
International Strategy, taken from other of LRH's despatches of that
time, and the "Int Strat" was something, if I recall, like "push
production until you run into blocks, and then remove those blocks
with ethics."
YES, the violence is LRH.
It's LRH's policy, and a DM type of personality brings it out in the
worst way.
realpch
> > On Jan 10, 3:26 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I wondered the same thing, but in reading it, it does really look like
> >> her unique style of writing so if someone did forge this, they really
> >> did a good job. She had already flipped in court and so it wouldn't be
> >> so unbelievable if she came to believe once again in the Scientology
> >> tech. Her cult-like behavior when she was with Minton had always cast
> >> doubts for me about her recovery, so why not the tech as well? This
> >> really isn't the contradiction it appears to be.
> >
> > would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
> >
> > Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> > composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> > excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> > way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> > delusional.
>
> resurface to deny that she sent the email. Marty would be in a position to
> know if she was gagged from communicating on topics Scientological after the
> LMT debacle. I don't subscribe to any theory yet, but all we have so far is
> Marty confirming the email, and I sure don't trust him.
>
> "During my tenure in the church there was one standard we nearly always
> adhered to. That was do not commit acts recognized as criminal under
> existing statutes."
>
> Stupid delusional fucker. (Even allowing for gaps in his tenure due to
> quality RPF re-education time.) Just think about the low-level but
> continuous criminals acts committed against critics during that time...
>
> Ron of that ilk.
Shoot, maybe he needs a gang bang sec check.
:-D
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Andrew Robertson
"Dennis L Erlich" <info...@informer.org> wrote in message
news:a15kk5tbiqf13tpvk...@4ax.com...
> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>>Or it could indicate that she talks out both sides of her ass...I mean
>>mouth...I mean keyboard...
>
> All three sides, in Stacy's case.
Actually, Dennis, that would be four sides!
Andrew
DamOTclese
>http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:
>de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd
>=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
What makes you think that email really is from her?
---
Does belief in astrology cause insanity? http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm
DamOTclese
>On Jan 10, 2:37=A0am, henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=3Dcache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418..=
>I guess this is supposed to be the e-mail Marty says was copied from
>his hacked account and posted to "a website." But how does anybody
>know it's not a forgery? For one thing, her ostensible support of the
>"tech" seems to contradict some of her previous statements.
Mor to the point, I would expect the real Stacy Brooks to use a
legitimate email address, not a throw-away gmail email address.
It looks like it was written by someone trying to play pretend,
egging Rathbun's loonacy on, if possible.
DamOTclese
> She had already flipped in court
Have any evidence of that, bitch?
DamOTclese
>On Jan 9, 6:37=A0pm, henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=3Dcache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/17418
It's easy enough to find out. I have an obsolete telephone number for
her however *someone* should still have a working phone number to just
call her up and ask.
Eldon
Did you know that I consider Barak Obama a friend? Well, I do, even
though I've never met him. Same with Skippy and Sarah Palin. ;-)
>
> If Minton and Rinder are/were "friends", wouldn't that mean Brooks and
> Rinder are friends too and have been for some time? Friends talk on
> the telephone......so considering this, I don't think talkin on the
> phone with Rinder would be "suddenly".
It appears to me that Minton and Brooks have been totally silent since
the "settlement." Have you heard something from them that I haven't?
Did they call you on the phone?
>
> The question is how long Rinder and Minton/Brooks have been
> friends...i.e. talking on the phone, etc. During or after the deal
> with CO$ or after Rinder got out of the (spit) "church"?
>
>
>
> > Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> > composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> > excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> > way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> > delusional.- Hide quoted text -
>
> LOL....and you think Stacy Brooks is not?
In retrospect, I think she was pretty mixed up, and manipulative in
the territorial sense. But hypocritical? Certainly not to the
conscious extent Marty is.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
>
> That is, if the "hack" was even genuine. Let alone spawned by OSA.
> And not at Marty the "Terminator's" own instigation.
>
I think the hack was by a lulz seeking anonymous person who is a Marty
hater, because some just think he's a looney as Scientology and are
flabbergasted at his lack of seeing how bad Scientology/Hubbard are.
> Professional liars, practiced in the art, do not enjoy the presumption
> of truth.
>
Right, good point.
> At least not by me.
>
> D
>
> ----------------
>
> "All the people involved were not following the laws ...
> were not allowing me to have my civil rights." - anonymous ex-scieno
People like Marty and Mike who've had to lie convincingly to public
officials, they are a different breed of person, or have been
conditioned to behave in a fashion that for sure one will have to be
cautious about their stories.
I think it would be good to have some critics do a 3-4 hour question
and answer session with Marty and Mike, on the record, video'd, and
have sufficient time to follow up questions and dig up the details on
things past. I'm a Flow 3 Grade 0 release.
Eldon
wrote:
Oh, sure. Just send Marty an e-mail request. I'll be he and Mike will
be glad to oblige!
rhill
> I think it would be good to have some critics do a 3-4 hour question
> and answer session with Marty and Mike, on the record, video'd, and
> have sufficient time to follow up questions and dig up the details on
> things past. I'm a Flow 3 Grade 0 release.
My view is that he should write an affidavit of everything he knows
first-hand which is of public interest -- like those which were made in
1994. I know an affidavit is not evidence, but it's a solemn account of
what the person knows first-hand, and has a great value for history
purpose. Andre Tabayoyon wrote one then moved on, etc. Eventually, when
more information comes out, we can cross-reference with previous
information. An example would be the mudslide event at Gold Base. After
more people came out, they confirm Tabayoyon's account of the event. He
needs to spill it *all* out, or else he needs to accept that his silence
contributes to the cancer that the Church of Scientology has been on
society for decades.
henri
wrote:
>henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:
>>de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd
>>=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
>What makes you think that email really is from her?
The fact that it reads exactly like Stacy Brooks, the fact that the
headers indicate that it originates in Ireland, where Stacy Brooks is,
the fact that Marty Rathbun, who has known Stacy Brooks for decades,
accepts that it is Stacy Brooks, the fact that Mike Rinder, who also
has known Stacy Brooks for decades and is known to be currently in
contact with her, has also not contradicted that it is Stacy Brooks,
and that everything else about it is also consistent with it being
Stacy Brooks.
Eldon
Gosh, I didn't know Stacy was living in Ireland, and was known to be
in contact with Mike Rinder. Dox?
Monica Pignotti
wrote:
This is all, IMHO -- I could be wrong, but here is my opinion and take
on what's happening here. Thinking back on all I know about Stacy,
based on my in-person interactions with her and her writings as well,
none of this really is very surprising. She has to rationalize her
past treacherous acts of turning and testifying for Scientology.
Although I realize she was highly pressured to do this, the fact is
that she did it and I would bet that it was very painful for her and
she felt very guilty about it. Stacy could be accused of many things,
but one thing she is not, is a sociopath without a conscience. What
she ended up doing, her acts of betrayal, must have been emotionally
excruciating for her because she is someone who has a conscience. When
she flipped and took sides with Scientology, that must have been very
painful for her, so she had to create a way to rationalize her
behavior.
The e-mail, if this is actually Stacy and not something forged (which
has yet to be determined), seems to me to be a story she tells herself
that makes what she did okay, a rationalization. She tells herself and
has now apparently shared with Marty that she never was a warrior and
always was a techie. I'm sure this is a comfort to her and a way to
avoid the truth of the matter, which was that she gave in to pressure
and betrayed all she stood for, in terms of all the time and effort
she had spent exposing the abuses of Scientology. Regardless of how
much she was pressured and circumstances that can be considering
extenuating, that kind of treachery has to be very painful for her to
live with. I think that in order to relieve her guilty conscience, she
created this story that she now tells herself, that what she did
fighting Scientology really wasn't in her nature and that she always
was just a "techie". Her e-mail makes perfect since from that
standpoint and what better ally for her than Marty? I can see why she
would want to reach out to him. We still haven't established for sure
that this is really her, but if it is, it makes perfect sense that her
rationalizations would bring her to the point of a believer in the
tech who has no wish anymore to fight the abuses of DM and the CofS.
The fact is she can't anymore after what she did in court, so this is
a way for her to make herself feel okay about it -- that's my opinion
and guess as to what is going on here.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> Rinder are friends too and have been for some time? Friends talk on
> the telephone......so considering this, I don't think talkin on the
> phone with Rinder would be "suddenly".
>
> friends...i.e. talking on the phone, etc. During or after the deal
> with CO$ or after Rinder got out of the (spit) "church"?
>
>
>
> > Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> > composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> > excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> > way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> > delusional.- Hide quoted text -
>
> LOL....and you think Stacy Brooks is not?
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
Now that's an interesting point. We know for a fact that based on the
statements in that article, Marty and Minton have been in touch, so it
is completely believable that if Stacy is still with Minton, she has
also been in touch with Marty. It's likely they have been in touch for
awhile now.
Monica
Hartley Patterson
> >What makes you think that email really is from her?
>
> The fact that it reads exactly like Stacy Brooks, the fact that the
> headers indicate that it originates in Ireland, where Stacy Brooks is,
> the fact that Marty Rathbun, who has known Stacy Brooks for decades,
> accepts that it is Stacy Brooks, the fact that Mike Rinder, who also
> has known Stacy Brooks for decades and is known to be currently in
> contact with her, has also not contradicted that it is Stacy Brooks,
> and that everything else about it is also consistent with it being
> Stacy Brooks.
But if you know all that so would a forger! :-)
I don't disagree with you though, and pushing DM's paranoia up another
notch can't be bad. Which of his ghosts of engrams past will come out to
haunt him next? Will he decide she has broken the spirit of their 'silence
pact' and start harassing her again? The Tech says she's just a weak and
feeble girlie and will crack at once!
henri
<hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>he...@nowhere.invalid wrote:
>> >What makes you think that email really is from her?
>> The fact that it reads exactly like Stacy Brooks, the fact that the
>> headers indicate that it originates in Ireland, where Stacy Brooks is,
>> the fact that Marty Rathbun, who has known Stacy Brooks for decades,
>> accepts that it is Stacy Brooks, the fact that Mike Rinder, who also
>> has known Stacy Brooks for decades and is known to be currently in
>> contact with her, has also not contradicted that it is Stacy Brooks,
>> and that everything else about it is also consistent with it being
>> Stacy Brooks.
>But if you know all that so would a forger! :-)
The forger wouldn't be able to silence Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, and
Stacy Brooks, all of whom would immediately recognize the forgery.
>I don't disagree with you though, and pushing DM's paranoia up another
>notch can't be bad. Which of his ghosts of engrams past will come out to
>haunt him next? Will he decide she has broken the spirit of their 'silence
>pact' and start harassing her again? The Tech says she's just a weak and
>feeble girlie and will crack at once!
Why would DM be upset by someone urging Marty Rathbun to leave DM
alone?
Dennis L Erlich
>Why would DM be upset by someone urging Marty Rathbun to leave DM
>alone?
Job #1 for any cultie doing KSW is protecting the Poodle. PR for
Elrong, the cult and the tek are not the highest priority.
D
-----------------
"I was one of those." - Leonard Cohen
Tigger
On Jan 10, 6:45 pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > She had already flipped in court
>
> Have any evidence of that, bitch?
>
Yes, Monica does, plenty. Stacy flipped before she got to court.
I suggest you and Astrid spend a little time here. Be sure to read
Jesse Prince's affidavit.
Dandar Disqualification Hearing DocumentsWednesday, August 28, 2002
http://www.whyaretheydead.info/lisa_mcpherson/bob/
Tigger
******************************************
"What you don't see with your eyes, don't invent with your mouth"
Old Jewish proverb
******************************************
Tigger
> Tigger wrote:
> > Eldon wrote:
> > >Doesn't sound like her writing style to me. Also, I don't see why she
> > > would suddenly be talking to Mike and Marty on the phone.
>
> > Why are you, Eldon, presuming it's "suddenly"? The SpTimes some time
> > ago wrote:
>
> > Quote:
>
> > "Rinder,who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and
> > disgusting," now considers him a friend." end of quote
>
> Did you know that I consider Barak Obama a friend? Well, I do, even
> though I've never met him. Same with Skippy and Sarah Palin. ;-)
LOL....sure you do. But you're mixing apples and oranges...Stacy has
not only met Rinder and Rathbun, but she has known them both in and
out of the (spit) "church".
BTW :>) would you like to know the real Sarah Palin?
Book 'Game Change' portrays Sarah Palin as unstable ignoramus who
believed Saddam was behind 9/11
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/01/11/2010-01
11_new_book_game_change_sarah_palin_believed_.html
>
>
>
> > If Minton and Rinder are/were "friends", wouldn't that mean Brooks and
> > Rinder are friends too and have been for some time? Friends talk on
> > the telephone......so considering this, I don't think talkin on the
> > phone with Rinder would be "suddenly".
>
> It appears to me that Minton and Brooks have been totally silent since
> the "settlement." Have you heard something from them that I haven't?
> Did they call you on the phone?
Not posting under their real names on the internet does mean "total
silence". LOL....I would be the last person they would call on the
telephone.
>
>
> > The question is how long Rinder and Minton/Brooks have been
> > friends...i.e. talking on the phone, etc. During or after the deal
> > with CO$ or after Rinder got out of the (spit) "church"?
>
> > > Marty could have easily opened a gmail account under this name and
> > > composed it. In fact, I think he did the hacks himself to create an
> > > excuse to get rid of the Lise O'Kane debacle he and she created. He is
> > > way, way hypocritical and manipulative. Not to mention pretty
> > > delusional.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > LOL....and you think Stacy Brooks is not?
>
> In retrospect, I think she was pretty mixed up, and manipulative in
> the territorial sense. But hypocritical? Certainly not to the
> conscious extent Marty is.
Maybe not, but can you deny she professed virtues she didn't have?
Tigger
Tigger
As always, excellent points to prove a case.
Tigger
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gkood points. Stacy should have gone through exit-counseling. I was
told by a reliaable person that she and Minton did go to Wellspring,
but didn't stay because Wellspring wouldn't allow drinking.
Tigger
Eldon
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:58:06 -0000, Hartley Patterson
>
> >he...@nowhere.invalid wrote:
> >> >What makes you think that email really is from her?
> >> The fact that it reads exactly like Stacy Brooks, the fact that the
> >> headers indicate that it originates in Ireland, where Stacy Brooks is,
> >> the fact that Marty Rathbun, who has known Stacy Brooks for decades,
> >> accepts that it is Stacy Brooks, the fact that Mike Rinder, who also
> >> has known Stacy Brooks for decades and is known to be currently in
> >> contact with her, has also not contradicted that it is Stacy Brooks,
> >> and that everything else about it is also consistent with it being
> >> Stacy Brooks.
> >But if you know all that so would a forger! :-)
>
> The forger wouldn't be able to silence Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, and
> Stacy Brooks, all of whom would immediately recognize the forgery.
If Rathbun were the forger, Rinder would be happy to cooperate. And
it's possible that Stacy can't make a peep about Scientology to
anyone, under any circumstances. So what if she did recognize it?
I'm not saying it is a forgery, but it could be.
So again, how do you know she's in Ireland? What part? With Bob or
solo?
Skipper
<5d3932ee-6773-4aff...@t12g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Tigger <Tiggeri...@webtv.net> wrote:
Wellspring?
Let's see. Jack Rosenberg saw the scam Elwrong was running, turned
himself into Werner Erhard, and did EST. Out of EST came The Process
and Lifespring and who knows what else. Is Wellspring in there?
Here's my exit counseling:
1. Read "A Piece of Blue Sky" and get the missing pieces of a lot of
garbage I'd already figured out.
2. When two Sea Org members I'd known a long time showed up at my house
unannounced one night, in full dress uniform, I listened awhile, then
told them that if they ever came back, or anyone else ever came back,
not only would I call the cops and get them put in jail, I'd sue the
cult and write a book about everything I knew.
Never heard from them or the cult again, except some tool registrar
from ASHO a couple of years ago who called to tell me I had $30 on
account or something. I don't think he liked the earful I gave him; he
didn't call back.
Stacy was always a little wishy-washy and light in the pants while
acting tough. She could pull that off while Vaughn was around, but
apparently not afterward.
Gregory Hall
news:6e183981-3636-45af...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Monica
===================================
[REPLY]
Good Grief but Monica is so VERBOSE.
This is all she needed to say to make her point:
"In my opinion, based upon my dealings with Stacy, I'm not surprised she
rationalizes being a traitor. She may have been pressured but she did it
anyway. Did she feel remorse or guilt? Probably. She does have a conscience
so her betrayals can't be easy.
"The alleged e-mail, seems to be a rationalization in which she states she
never was a warrior but a techie. This may be a comfort to her but remains
an obfuscation, nonetheless. One that's likely painful to live with.
"I can see why she'd want to reach out to Marty. He's a brother-in-arms, so
to speak. It makes sense that her rationalizations would buttress the tech.
This belies her actions in court and is yet another betrayal."
Monica, go back to school and take English composition courses. You make a
Doctorate look like something one gets from a Cracker Jack box.
--
Gregory Hall
Patty Pieniadz
> On Jan 11, 4:04 pm, henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:58:06 -0000, Hartley Patterson
>>
>> <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> >he...@nowhere.invalid wrote:
>> >> >What makes you think that email really is from her?
>> >> The fact that it reads exactly like Stacy Brooks, the fact that
>> >> the headers indicate that it originates in Ireland, where Stacy
>> >> Brooks is, the fact that Marty Rathbun, who has known Stacy
>> >> Brooks for decades, accepts that it is Stacy Brooks, the fact
>> >> that Mike Rinder, who also has known Stacy Brooks for decades and
>> >> is known to be currently in contact with her, has also not
>> >> contradicted that it is Stacy Brooks, and that everything else
>> >> about it is also consistent with it being Stacy Brooks.
>> >But if you know all that so would a forger! :-)
>>
>> The forger wouldn't be able to silence Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder,
>> and Stacy Brooks, all of whom would immediately recognize the
>> forgery.
>
> If Rathbun were the forger, Rinder would be happy to cooperate. And
> it's possible that Stacy can't make a peep about Scientology to
> anyone, under any circumstances. So what if she did recognize it?
>
> I'm not saying it is a forgery, but it could be.
>
> So again, how do you know she's in Ireland? What part? With Bob or
> solo?
Sorry I can't reveal my source but Stacy and Bob are in Ireland
together.
I have no dox, so you can take it or leave it.
Eldon
OK, from you I'll take it Patty. I just tend to suspect anything Marty
Rathbun says for some reason.
rhill
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
(revised, included the "unpersoning of Rathbun" as per AC's suggestion +
a couple other entries)
Timeline (GMT time, although I can't tell what is the timezone of the
timestamp associated with each comment of a blog post -- looks GMT to me):
60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s
People have been criticizing Scientology, often with a dearly paid price.
Marty Rathbun belongs to the organization for many decades, and as per
accounts, is accomplice of crimes/abuses on behalf of the Church of
Scientology. Example: "I and others were told by (Scientology executive)
Marty Rathburn that on the orders of David Miscavige, the successor of
L. Ron Hubbard as the head of the cult, that the medical records of
O'Reilly were to be stolen from the Betty Ford Center"
http://www.scientology-lies.com/press/st-petersburg-times/1988-12-22/scientology-church-faces-new-claims-of-harassment.html
Etc.
2004
Marty Rathbun leaves the Church of Scientology
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/rathbun.shtml
8-22 Sep, 2005
Any mention of Marty Rathbun and Warren McShane are scrubbed off of
CoS/RTC sites in a top priority Unpersonning project. "Significantly,
they dropped the ball on the re-registration of 60 org domains around
September 10th that took weeks for them to straighten out, simple
technical problems, suggesting that key people/resources were busy or
unavailable during that time. (I'd say key computer people, but with
CoS, the lack of availability of the proper higher authority to sign off
on work could do the same.)"
http://www.xenu.net/archive/rtc/
7 Feb 2009
Marty Rathbun resurfaces ("My services cost whatever you think they are
worth, within your means, after completion." aka "Buy my stuff"?):
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=30115
8 Feb 2009
Marty Rathbun starts the "Independence movement"
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/golden-age-of-reduced-extortion-demands/#comment-6282
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/golden-age-of-reduced-extortion-demands/#comment-6289
9 Feb 2009
Marty Rathbun explains why he wouldn't go to law enforcement re.
Scientology's crimes/abuses
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9819
Jun 21, 2009
Marty Rathbun speaks up about the abuses in the Church of Scientology
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/rathbun.shtml
1 July 2009
Marty Rathbun starts a new blog:
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/hello-world/
Blog is mostly dedicated to expose David Miscavige, to bitch about those
who criticize LRH/Scientology, and to make a point that there is a
growing number of pro-Scientology independent followers who contact him
3 Dec 2009 13:56:41 +0000
Allegedly, Stacy Brooks email Marty Rathbun
(http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us#)
23 Dec 2009 (circa 03:18 as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun posts "Brisbane Independent � Lise O�Kane," which raised
many inconvenient questions from onlookers:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15485
Oops
28 Dec 2009 (circa 23:30? as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun posts that his blog has been hacked into
(http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/this-blog-has-been-hacked/#)
29 Dec 2009 (circa 19:02? as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun announces that his AOL account (sthtex...@aol.com) has
been hacked
(http://martyrathbun09.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/aol-account-hijacked/#)
6 Jan 2010 (circa 03:06? as per first comment)
Marty Rathbun recovers is original blog.
(http://martyrathbun09.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/were-back/)
The "Lisa O'Kane" post is *not* recovered on the blog, *but* someone
posted what appear as the original content of the O'Kane post along with
what appears to be the original comments, and Marty Rathbun allows it:
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/this-blog-has-been-hacked/#comment-7743
7 Jan 2010 20:56:39 +0000 (1:56:39pm MST)
Someone (allegedly the malicious hacker) posts the allegedly leaked
email (which content is flattering to Marty Rathbun) to pastebin.
Possibly putting Stacy Brooks in a bit of trouble, depending of the
settlement agreement she has with Church of Scientology -- assuming
there is one.)
9 Jan 2010 (circa 17:54? as per first comment)
On his blog, Marty Rathbun posts (excerpt): "I sincerely apologize to
those who have communicated to me at my posted aol address
(sthtex...@aol.com) whose privacy rights have been compromised"
(http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/moving-on-up-a-little-higher/#)
-- in effect *causing* people to google "sthtex...@aol.com" and find
the 'leaked' email
Soon thereafter, the leaked email is found, and henri posted a link to
it to ARS.
Tigger
> Tigger wrote:
> >Gkood points. Stacy should have gone through exit-counseling. I was
> > told by a reliaable person that she and Minton did go to Wellspring,
> > but didn't stay because Wellspring wouldn't allow drinking.
>
> > Tigger
>
> Wellspring?
>
> Let's see. Jack Rosenberg saw the scam Elwrong was running, turned
> himself into Werner Erhard, and did EST. Out of EST came The Process
> and Lifespring and who knows what else. Is Wellspring in there?
>
No, Wellspring is not a cult, Skippypoo. It's a rehab and resource
center for ex cult members and their families. It was/is
associated with the OLD CAN and ICSA (Formerly American Family
Foundation) and people like Dr. Margaret Singer and Dr. Jolly West
for decades. Dr. Paul Martin, unfortunately, like Drs Singer and
West, is now deceased.
Get Help Today :: Brainwashing mind-control :: psychological,
spiritual, mental, emotional abuse :: religious cults and cult dep
http://wellspringretreat.org/help/index.php
International Cultic Studies Association: Information about cults,
cult groups, and new religious movements.� ICSA studies psychological
manipulation, cult groups, sects, and new religious movements.
Monica Pignotti
Right, she did go to Wellspring and wrote about it. I didn't know
about the drinking part, but at best, Wellspring is usually only a two
week program and while it is meant to give the person a start in their
recovery and provide the person with some basic education on cults and
a certain amount of therapy/counseling, the process needs to be
continued when they go home. Wellspring has been helpful to many
people, but it is intended as a start and what people do after they
leave Wellspring makes a difference and hanging out with Minton would
not exactly be the best recipe for recovery from a cult, IMO.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> In article
> <5d3932ee-6773-4aff-afea-f43b57330...@t12g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Wellspring is a residential cult recovery facility. Nothing to do with
EST, Lifespring or any other large group awareness training. Quite the
opposite. See:
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > She had already flipped in court
>
> Have any evidence of that, bitch?
>
> Does belief in astrology cause insanity?http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm
Legal dox of Stacy and Bob's flipping are all here:
DamOTclese
>On Jan 10, 9:39=A0pm, henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 00:39:27 GMT, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese)
>>>>http://74.125.93.132/search?q=3Dcache:Ob81V8geBx4J:
>>>>de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd
>>>>=3D2&hl=3Den&ct=3Dclnk&gl=3Dus
>>>What makes you think that email really is from her?
>> The fact that it reads exactly like Stacy Brooks, the fact that the
>> headers indicate that it originates in Ireland, where Stacy Brooks is,
>> the fact that Marty Rathbun, who has known Stacy Brooks for decades,
>> accepts that it is Stacy Brooks, the fact that Mike Rinder, who also
>> has known Stacy Brooks for decades and is known to be currently in
>> contact with her, has also not contradicted that it is Stacy Brooks,
>> and that everything else about it is also consistent with it being
>> Stacy Brooks.
> As always, excellent points to prove a case.
None of which proves anything. There is no evidence that Brooks wrote
the email, no evidence she's in Ireland, no *need* for anybody to
"contradict" the claim. The burdon of evidence rests with the claimant
and as yet there is no such evidence.
Out_Of_The_Dark
wrote:
Of course those in the know would think the hack was by a lulz seeking
anonymous person who is a Marty hater. Funny how of the 4 who had
access to the original pastebin, only one is a Minton hater.
AnonDelMundial
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
So, what ABSOLUTE PROOF POSITIVE do you, or anyone else, have for your
contention that Stacey Brooks is the sender? I have a Comcast account
and could conjure a Stacey Brooks email address, or at least one that
looked like her address for a few days.
Voltaire's Child
"Patty Pieniadz" <ppie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7r1d10...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Sorry I can't reveal my source but Stacy and Bob are in Ireland together.
> I have no dox, so you can take it or leave it.
>
>
She still bangin' him then?
Hmmm...
C
Monica Pignotti
True, but if you want to use that rigorous a standard for proof, to be
consistent, you'd have to doubt most of the people posting to ARS as
well. That's fine to be a skeptic, but I'm just sayin. What would you
consider acceptable evidence? If the only conclusive evidence would be
for Stacy herself to come forward and admit that she wrote it, I doubt
that will happen.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> On 1/9/2010 6:37 PM, henri wrote:
>
>
> So, what ABSOLUTE PROOF POSITIVE do you, or anyone else, have for your
> contention that Stacey Brooks is the sender? I have a Comcast account
> and could conjure a Stacey Brooks email address, or at least one that
> looked like her address for a few days.
The same could be said for anyone else posting here under various
names. You don't know that I'm really Monica Pignotti either. Someone
could have forged my address. So why the selective demands for
"absolute proof positive" only where Stacy is concerned?
Tigger
And there is no evidence she didn't write it or isn't in Ireland, is
there? It's not easy to prove a murder without a body either,but if
there are enough footprints in the sand and a missing person..........
So if Stacy didn't write it, why isn't she or one of her "friends"
saying so? If she isn't in Ireland, why isn't one of her "friends"
saying so?
Why don't you, Fredric, find out why?
Tigger
>
> ---
> Does belief in astrology cause insanity?http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm- Hide quoted text -
DamOTclese
>On Jan 11, 10:38=A0pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
>> None of which proves anything. There is no evidence that Brooks wrote
>> the email, no evidence she's in Ireland, no *need* for anybody to
>> "contradict" the claim. The burdon of evidence rests with the claimant
>> and as yet there is no such evidence.
>consistent, you'd have to doubt most of the people posting to ARS as
>well.
If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her herself.
Monica Pignotti
I agree, so can somebody who is in touch with her please ask her?
Surely someone here is in touch with her, since people seem to know
where she is, or at least they claim they do.
Anonymous
Pignotti wrote:
>
>I agree, so can somebody who is in touch with her please ask her?
>Surely someone here is in touch with her, since people seem to know
>where she is, or at least they claim they do.
I'll call her tonight. :)
Tigger
> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >On Jan 11, 10:38=A0pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
> >> None of which proves anything. There is no evidence that Brooks wrote
> >> the email, no evidence she's in Ireland, no *need* for anybody to
> >> "contradict" the claim. The burdon of evidence rests with the claimant
> >> and as yet there is no such evidence.
> >True, but if you want to use that rigorous a standard for proof, to be
> >consistent, you'd have to doubt most of the people posting to ARS as
> >well.
>
> If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
> the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
>
> It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her herself.
Not the only way....maybe not even the best way. She has been known
to lie.
Why doesn't someone ask both Rathbun and Brooks? It would be
interesting to see if they both tell the same story, not
that....telling the same story would prove they both weren't lying.
Gee, maybe Rinder could put them both on the e-meter...:>)
Tigger
Monica Pignotti
Now there's an idea. Give her an ARSCC sec check.
DamOTclese
>On Jan 12, 10:08=A0pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
>> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>> None of which proves anything. There is no evidence that Brooks wrote
>>>> the email, no evidence she's in Ireland, no *need* for anybody to
>>>> "contradict" the claim. The burdon of evidence rests with the claimant
>>>> and as yet there is no such evidence.
>>>True, but if you want to use that rigorous a standard for proof, to be
>>>consistent, you'd have to doubt most of the people posting to ARS as
>>>well.
>> If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
>> the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
>> It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her herself.
> Not the only way.
Yes, the only way. How do you know someone is a Christian? It's the samr
thing.
Android Cat
news:c1a0a2b0-910a-49c0...@r10g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Marty has already baaawwwed about the email, saying that He Had No Idea that
CoS would Stoop So Low, and also that back in his tenure, They Did Nearly
Everything Legally! (Or was that did Everything Nearly Legally?)
Well brush my butt with barbed-wire! Marty's "tenure" was what, 1983-2004 or
so? (A few years off here and there to spend time as the stinkee rather than
the stinker.) And in *ALL THAT TIME* nearly everything that CoS did was
legal? ( I guess I imagined Velcro Kitty posting a section of my credit
report, the unauthorized obtaining of which is a criminal act in Ontario.)
A list of all the assaults, dirty tricks, financial fraud, etc, in those 20
years that were illegal, but just under the radar to avoid charges, and the
things that they were convicted of in other countries could go on for pages
and pages--and that's what we know about.
Oh certainly Davey-boy was the guy in charge, giving the orders, pulling the
strings, and first in line for prison some day, but at least he's not
putting on a "poor wittle me" act--yet.
(No, I don't expect Marty to hand police signed confessions to everything he
did while 2nd banana. I just wish that he'd stop being so damned
irritating!)
--
Ron of that ilk.
rhill
Joined Scientology: at age 20, in 1977
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/rathbun.shtml
/=====
In January 1981, Miscavige asked Rathbun to join him on a road trip to
the Super Bowl. Driving eight-hour shifts from L.A. to New Orleans, they
got to know each other along the way.
Later that year, Hubbard gave Miscavige a critical assignment: Resolve
the crush of lawsuits and investigations that threatened the church.
Miscavige chose Rathbun and three others to help handle the job.
Rathbun says he spent six months prioritizing cases and developing
*strategy*
http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012148.ece
\=====
"Strategy"... "strategy"... Oh yeah:
/=====
By 1985, Yanny was "closely involved in the formulation of legal
*strategy*," according to court documents filed by Scientologists.
"I and others were told by (Scientology executive) Marty Rathburn that
on the orders of David Miscavige, the successor of L. Ron Hubbard as the
head of the cult, that the medical records of O'Reilly were to be stolen
from the Betty Ford Center, and another location in Santa Barbara, to
show that he was using cocaine, discredit him, and possibly blackmail
him into easing off on his $30-million verdict now on appeal," Yanny
said last summer when questioned by Scientology lawyers.
As per Marty Rathbun's 2010 blog, now we understand that "strategy" =
"nearly always legal"
Anonymous
I called her but she didn't answer the phone. Perhaps I'll try again tomorrow.
t_shuffle
"henri" <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:eqbik59atjt6mokuq...@4ax.com
> http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Ob81V8geBx4J:de.pastebin.ca/1741852+sthtexlensman%40aol.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
This is why I can no longer really bring myself to give a fuck about
Hubbard's victims. Life is too short, things are too bad right now, and we
all have free will (unless we sold it in a court of law). Fuck 'em.
DM is no more evil than LRH. The tech is poison. Look at the Freezone freaks
melting down as we speak. You'd think being able to control ants and have
two way communication with grass would breed some sort of harmony, but it's
not looking that way.
You can either admit you fucked up and then evolve and move on, or you can
keep shitting on yourself while unfortunately shitting on the rest of the
world. Fuck you if you don't pick the right one. Fuck you, you deserve your
misery, and fuck you, you deserve what you get.
Astrid
>
> DM is no more evil than LRH. The tech is poison. Look at the Freezone freaks
> melting down as we speak. You'd think being able to control ants and have
> two way communication with grass would breed some sort of harmony, but it's
> not looking that way.
>
had a shred of logic left, should conclude the tech is poison, if it
can be so easily twisted as for one midget to control the path of
thousands/millions of others.
Exes should get themselves up to date, review the facts that are known
about L. Ron and the development of his scam, and if they can't find
it in themselves to intelligently protest the whole controlling,
delusional system, then they should just recognize what this former
Sea Ogre did:
(I clipped this from ESMB I liked it so much:)
Why is it, that after growing up in Scientology, and training, and Sea
Orgering - 23 years worth of all, I'm so much happier now being light
years away from that garbage - The Tech?
I get so much more out of life by making friends and trying new
things, or doing the things I enjoy doing, plus getting connected with
nature and the world around me. The greatest happiness I've gotten has
been away from Scientology and the Tech. Happiness is especially great
when it's shared.
People get so caught up in the why's to their unhappiness that the
real solutions are sitting right in front of their faces. Life IS
complex, but the living of it is pretty simple. We are all here to
live life. And we all die eventually. That's natural. I say, enjoy
life while you're here living it now. Worry about what happens after
you die for when you get there. But I wouldn't even worry about it
then.
The Tech is only there to eventually "get people out of the trap."
Might I ask WHAT trap? Scientology and the Tech wants and gets you to
believe, and think, you've been enslaved, and believing THAT, is the
start of the real entrapmement. I think life here as a human being is
beautiful and there's nothing wrong with being a human being. We are
quite amazing creatures. Look how far we've come just in the last 100
years or so.
Just look at the possibilities that real Science is already proving as
realities now and potential realities in the future. Just the research
of DNA alone is producing evidences of possibilities greater than
Scientology ever had to offer. Looks like "God" himself was one hell
of a brilliant geneticist. And whoever wrote and programmed the
languages and codes in the blueprint of life's DNA knew that we'd
eventually be able to "speak the language" as well.
I'm done with looking at life filled with "hocus pocus", "mystical"
and "magical" reasons or "whys." And have never been happier. The
Magical Mystery Sandwich Tour is over for this WOG.
And yes, this board is an orgy of lurve that I'm happy to be part of!
Tigger
> Tigger <Tiggerinthe...@webtv.net> wrote:
> >On Jan 12, 10:08=A0pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
> >> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>>On Jan 11, 10:38=3DA0pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
> >>>> None of which proves anything. There is no evidence that Brooks wrote
> >>>> the email, no evidence she's in Ireland, no *need* for anybody to
> >>>> "contradict" the claim. The burdon of evidence rests with the claimant
> >>>> and as yet there is no such evidence.
> >>>True, but if you want to use that rigorous a standard for proof, to be
> >>>consistent, you'd have to doubt most of the people posting to ARS as
> >>>well.
> >> If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
> >> the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
> >> It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her herself.
> > Not the only way.
>
> Yes, the only way. How do you know someone is a Christian? It's the same
> thing.
LOL......really? I didn't know there were e-mails between God and
Christians that could be stolen by the Devil and posted on the
internet. :>)
Seriously, there is more here than someone claiming to be a Christian,
so, it is, IMO, a big leap to claim it's the "same thing". Besides
there are "some" people who claim to be Christians (or this, that or
the other) who are not.
Tigger
DamOTclese
>On Jan 13, 7:40=A0pm, fr...@skeptictank.org (DamOTclese) wrote:
>> Tigger <Tiggerinthe...@webtv.net> wrote:
>> >> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >>>> None of which proves anything. There is no evidence that Brooks wrot=
>> >>>> the email, no evidence she's in Ireland, no *need* for anybody to
>> >>>> and as yet there is no such evidence.
>> >>>True, but if you want to use that rigorous a standard for proof, to be
>> >>>consistent, you'd have to doubt most of the people posting to ARS as
>> >>>well.
>> >> If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
>> >> the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
>> > Not the only way.
>> Yes, the only way. How do you know someone is a Christian? It's the same thing.
>LOL......really?
Yes really. You can _politely_ ask someone if they wrote something
and get a polite answer, that's the only way to acquire accuracy in
a realm where impersonation is easy and rampant.
No offense but you've never been very bright.
Tigger
> Tigger wrote:
> > Fredric wrote:
> > > Tigger wrote:
> > > > Fredric wrote:
> >> >> If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
> >> >> the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
> >> >> It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her herself.
> >> > Not the only way.
> >> Yes, the only way. How do you know someone is a Christian? It's the same thing.
> >LOL......really?
>
> Yes really. You can _politely_ ask someone if they wrote something
> and get a polite answer, that's the only way to acquire accuracy in
> a realm where impersonation is easy and rampant.
LOL...how ironic, Fredric Rice is advocating "politeness".
>
> No offense but you've never been very bright.
There have been times when I have been stupid and relied on "polite"
answers to polite questions and later found out those answers were not
true. Which goes to show that "polite" questions and answers do not
always produce truth. One only has to look at some politicians and
world leaders to know that.
That would also apply to many Scientologists and some ex-
Scientologists. Considering that Brooks, Rathbun and Rinder have been
trained in and by the "tech".....no offense Fredric, but I think you
are being extremely stupid to believe that if one asked Brooks or
Rathbun a polite question and received a polite answer......that said
answer would be "accurate".
Especially since you claim to "harbor the same requirements for
extraordinary evidence."
If you truly believe asking Brooks and/or Rathbun a polite question
will get you accurate evidence, why don't you ask one of them or both?
You might even use the e-mail addy Brooks (supposedly) used to e-mail
Rathbun.
Tigger
Monica Pignotti
>
> Tigger
What never ceases to amaze me is that even after her betrayal, Stacy
still has die hard supporters who seem to love her, no matter what she
does. I can just imagine the hatred I (or Tigger) would receive from
the very people who are hanging right in their with Stacy, had I
flipped in the way that she did and testified on behalf of
Scientology. But no, Saint Stacy can do anything and she will still be
loved by her fans.
So, Saint Stacy, if you're reading this what is your response? Where
do you stand with regard to the Scientology tech or is that a secret?
Monica
John Dorsay
> On Jan 15, 9:11 am, Tigger <Tiggerinthe...@webtv.net> wrote:
>> Fredric wrote:
>> > Tigger wrote:
>> > > Fredric wrote:
>> > > > Tigger wrote:
>> > > > > Fredric wrote:
>> > >> >> If the claims are as extraordinary as this one, I do indeed harbor
>> > >> >> the same requirements for extrordinary evidence.
>> > >> >> It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her herself.
>> > >> > Not the only way.
>> > >> Yes, the only way. How do you know someone is a Christian? It's the same thing.
>> > >LOL......really?
>>
>> > Yes really. You can _politely_ ask someone if they wrote something
>> > and get a polite answer, that's the only way to acquire accuracy in
>> > a realm where impersonation is easy and rampant.
>>
>> LOL...how ironic, Fredric Rice is advocating "politeness".
>>
>>
>>
>> > No offense but you've never been very bright.
>>
>> There have been times when I have been stupid and relied on "polite"
>> answers to polite questions and later found out those answers were not
>> true. Which goes to show that "polite" questions and answers do not
>> always produce truth. One only has to look at some politicians and
>> world leaders to know that.
Really? Politicians sometimes lie when they answer questions?
Don't tell Fred! He'll be crushed!
>> That would also apply to many Scientologists and some ex-
>> Scientologists. Considering that Brooks, Rathbun and Rinder have been
>> trained in and by the "tech".....no offense Fredric, but I think you
>> are being extremely stupid to believe that if one asked Brooks or
>> Rathbun a polite question and received a polite answer......that said
>> answer would be "accurate".
Your Republican comprehension skills are as impressive as ever,
Tigger (no offense). Fred made no presumption that any answer would
be accurate. He said that one might acquire accurate information
from a polite answer. Big hint for the Republican-impaired: That
accurate information *may* be that the answer is a lie!
>> Especially since you claim to "harbor the same requirements for
>> extraordinary evidence."
>>
>> If you truly believe asking Brooks and/or Rathbun a polite question
>> will get you accurate evidence, why don't you ask one of them or both?
>>
>> You might even use the e-mail addy Brooks (supposedly) used to e-mail
>> Rathbun.
>>
>> stacystewartbro...@gmail.com
>>
>> Tigger
>
> What never ceases to amaze me is that even after her betrayal, Stacy
> still has die hard supporters who seem to love her, no matter what she
> does. I can just imagine the hatred I (or Tigger) would receive from
> the very people who are hanging right in their with Stacy, had I
> flipped in the way that she did and testified on behalf of
> Scientology. But no, Saint Stacy can do anything and she will still be
> loved by her fans.
Fred questioned whether anyone had any *proof* that Brooks authored
the email. Why would he ask that, do you suppose? Rathbun and/or
the nut cult would *never* forge communication and attribute it to a
perceived enemy, so there is no reason to even consider that
possibility, right?
If Fred posted an opinion about supporting or loving Brooks, it was
not in this thread. What never ceases to amaze me is how people who
dislike someone are so quick to jump to the conclusion that any
questioning of their opinions indicates support for the "bad" guy.
John
Dennis L Erlich
>What never ceases to amaze me is how people who
>dislike someone are so quick to jump to the conclusion that any
>questioning of their opinions indicates support for the "bad" guy.
Yah, John. It's a leap of illogic.
Like when Monica asserted that because I think she's a hypocrite who
cautions and chides people for doing exactly what she does ... that
means I support some bogus therapy, the supporters of which are
tormenting her.
But hey, that's her style of lame, rhetorical ups-manship.
D
----------------
"At this point, if we could go back in time and get rid of the internet
altogether, I would be all for it." - Professor Monica Pignotti (Nov 2009)
Andrew Robertson
"Monica Pignotti" <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4ed00551-f11f-4b7f...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> But no, Saint Stacy can do anything and she will still be loved by her
> fans.
I would remind you young lady, that the only person on this newsgroup
authorized to grant titles is Michel Snoeck, ARS Central Committee Director,
Honorifics.
His decision would be based on research, evaluation of data, correct
argumentation and a full understanding of the East Sussex County Council's
recent decision to declare Nutwood Common a site of historic importance.
As far as I know, the only posters who have been honoured so far have been
Gerry Armstrong who is now a Saint, Peter Schilte who has been knighted and
a charming young woman from New Jersey, (Larry's home State) who only today
has been declared a Royal Princess.
Andrew
"You claimed research, and you shared nothing of it. Nothing that would
indicate or show that you actually went through the various phases of
investigation. No data, no signes of proper investigation, no adherent
evaluation, no comparison analysis, etc, etc,... and finally you
refusing to address my queries and argumentation that were based on
authentic documentation.
You have performed NO such research, and so you need to attack me and
find wrong by ANY means..." - Roadrunner
> Monica
Tigger
Monica wrote:
> What never ceases to amaze me is that even after her betrayal, Stacy
> still has die hard supporters who seem to love her, no matter what she
> does.
Well considering all the BS, distortions and incomplete info posted
and/or webbed on the websites of some "critics". I have somewhat
ceased to be amazed at the continued hero worship for Minton and/or
Brooks. Even some Anons were/are fooled by such "hero worship".
> I can just imagine the hatred I (or Tigger) would receive from
> the very people who are hanging right in their with Stacy, had I
> flipped in the way that she did and testified on behalf of
> Scientology. But no, Saint Stacy can do anything and she will still be
> loved by her fans.
How true. Among other ridiculous attacks, we both got bully ganged on
OCMB and ars when we supported Bernie's and Don Carlo's requests that
Bernie be allowed to post on OCMB so he and Don Carlo could debate the
opinions Don Carlo had been posting for years about Bernie's blog.
How dare we disagree with certain "critics".......what a crime.....how
ungodly.
>
> So, Saint Stacy, if you're reading this what is your response? Where
> do you stand with regard to the Scientology tech or is that a secret?
Oops. I think Father Fredric "might" claim that wasn't a polite
question. :>)
Double ditto for this one: "How many times and in how many ways can
you flip flop, Ms Brooks?
Tigger
> Monica
Tigger
Yeah, sure. LOL Skipper will be crushed you think I am a
Republican.
>
> >> That would also apply to many Scientologists and some ex-
> >> Scientologists. Considering that Brooks, Rathbun and Rinder have been
> >> trained in and by the "tech".....no offense Fredric, but I think you
> >> are being extremely stupid to believe that if one asked Brooks or
> >> Rathbun a polite question and received a polite answer......that said
> >> answer would be "accurate".
>
> Your Republican comprehension skills are as impressive as ever,
> Tigger (no offense).
Ahem.......I'm not a Repub.....but don't take my word for it.
Skipper will, no doubt, be happy to verify that fact. :>)
>Fred made no presumption that any answer would
> be accurate. He said that one might acquire accurate information
> from a polite answer. Big hint for the Republican-impaired: That
> accurate information *may* be that the answer is a lie!
In the beginning Father Fredric prophesized:
"It *could* be legitimate, but the only way to tell is to ask her
herself. "
Now unless Father Fredric or Deacon Dorsey have "magik OT" powerz,
how are they (or anyone) going to know if she's telling the truth or
lying unless her declaration is supported by some kind of physical
evidence and/or verification by a credible person?
>
>
>
> >> Especially since you claim to "harbor the same requirements for
> >> extraordinary evidence."
>
> >> If you truly believe asking Brooks and/or Rathbun a polite question
> >> will get you accurate evidence, why don't you ask one of them or both?
>
> >> You might even use the e-mail addy Brooks (supposedly) used to e-mail
> >> Rathbun.
>
> >> stacystewartbro...@gmail.com
>
> >> Tigger
>
> > What never ceases to amaze me is that even after her betrayal, Stacy
> > still has die hard supporters who seem to love her, no matter what she
> > does. I can just imagine the hatred I (or Tigger) would receive from
> > the very people who are hanging right in their with Stacy, had I
> > flipped in the way that she did and testified on behalf of
> > Scientology. But no, Saint Stacy can do anything and she will still be
> > loved by her fans.
>
> Fred questioned whether anyone had any *proof* that Brooks authored
> the email. Why would he ask that, do you suppose? Rathbun and/or
> the nut cult would *never* forge communication and attribute it to a
> perceived enemy, so there is no reason to even consider that
> possibility, right?
Wrong. Every possibility should be considered. Anything is
possible, but some things are more probable than others.
>
> If Fred posted an opinion about supporting or loving Brooks, it was
> not in this thread. What never ceases to amaze me is how people who
> dislike someone are so quick to jump to the conclusion that any
> questioning of their opinions indicates support for the "bad" guy.
Huh? Fredric was questioning probable evidence posted by henri and
stating as a fact that the "only way" to know would be to ask Stacy
Brooks, IMPLYING that whatever she said would be "accurate" if she
were "politely" asked.
Tigger
>