So... abortion is ok?
cultxpt
Scientology books. It gives examples of the amazing scientific
"research" Hubbard did into past lives, and the procedures for a thetan
to take on a new body so he can get back into this MEST game (MEST is
just a postulate, after all).
I just ran across a photocopy of pages 40 and 41 of the book, so I'll
just mention a few things from it.
When a thetan has left one body, his desire is to go get another one.
So he looks around for another body that is about to be born or is
about to have its current thetan possibly abandon the body. If it's a
baby, the thetan will go so far as to follow a pregnant woman around.
When it's time to give birth, "The baby is born and THEN a thetan picks
the baby up." So for 2 or 3 minutes the human there has no soul,
apparently, until the thetan hops in. Hubbard has no interest in
whether the baby could survive without a thetan taking up residence
because it "is beside the point."
Alternatively, a thetan could go to an emergency ward and wait for a
damaged body. After the current thetan/occupant leaves, "He will pick
up this body and pretend to be somebody's husband or something of the
sort." Now doesn't that just beg lots and lots of questions? If you're
a Scientologist and your husband was in a bad accident, how can you
tell the thetan in that body is still your husband?
Thetans have knowledge and memory of what being a thetan without a
body is like, but "...they don't shut their memory off until they pick
another body up." So once they jump back into the MEST universe
through the body portal, their memory is clouded.
A theory of what a ghost is is that it is the tormented soul of someone
who died some horrible way, or unattended. They are hanging around
because they did not get a proper sendoff. Hubbard agrees with this
about thetans, who stick around their previous body if it was no
properly buried. "Therefore, he hangs around a body until it is
properly disposed of."
Now, if a body does not get it's thetan (soul) until after it's
born, then what would be wrong with abortion?
roger gonnet
"cultxpt" <cul...@ev1.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123782128.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Abortion was at the same time a BIG problem for the inventor of dianetics, who
spilled many of his dianetics beans on women trying to abort (while HE himself
has asked his first wife to abort), and a no problem since anyway, he wanted to
do only what could have some interest for him.
r
>
ewsnead
"cultxpt" <cul...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:1123782128.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jeff, why not email the Pope and ask his learned opinion?
ewsnead
--
"Scientology: boldly challenging the MEST universe since 1953, with
decidedly mixed results."
zensh...@yahoo.com
cultxpt wrote:
> Now, if a body does not get it's thetan (soul) until after it's
> born, then what would be wrong with abortion?
Quoted from http://www.xenutv.com/panels/cultinfo-2001-panel1.htm
In this video Astra Woodcraft is explaining that the "C"oS in
Clearwater was pressuring pregnant members to have abortions because
they didn't want to support any more children.
"I was being told that abortion is okay because the spirit enters the
body right at birth for L. Ron Hubbard. So, abortion isn't wrong
because you're just killing, basically, a meat body."
cultxpt
Lisa Ruby
>"I was being told that abortion is okay because the spirit enters the
>body right at birth for L. Ron Hubbard.
I read somewhere that Ron believed the thetan even enters the body
AFTER one's birth. I will find out the source of my recollection and
post it here asap. Probably someone has already posted this information
here.
The baby, according to Hubbard's rationale, is not necessarily a person
(a thetan) even after birth--not until the thetan enters the body. Of
course since there is no way to measure when the thetan supposedly
enters the body, then it could be argued that the baby is not a person
for an indefinite period of time after birth.
This is new and "enlightened" reason to commit abortion and
infanticide. If the unborn is not a person (or even for a time after
birth) then what is the moral harm in helping "it" drop its body? One
would be simply killing a body, not a person.
Hubbard's non-personhood doctrine regarding the unborn and newborn is
conducive to population reduction, which is one of the tenets of
globalism.
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Larry T.
news:1123825130.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Lisa:
An implant by any other name would still smell as sweet.
The thetan grabs the body just a few moments before it is born so "everybody
knows who it is!"
--
Larry T. @ http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoqz2m/scientology/
"Step into the dream world, step into Uganda"
Lisa Ruby
recently as 1957, Hubbard writes:
"Thetan is the word given to the awareness of awareness unit, the life
source, the personality, and the beingness of homo sapiens .... It is
the person .... The thetan is a glowing unit of energy source. He seems
to himself to be anything from a quarter of an inch to two inches in
diameter. His capability is knowing and being. He exudes and uses
energy in many forms. He can perceive and handle energy flows easily.
The thetan enters sometime in early infancy. This may be before, during
or following birth.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/ar11.html
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Lisa Ruby
>If you're a Scientologist and your
>husband was in a bad accident,
>how can you
>tell the thetan in that body
>is still your husband?
Michael Schiavo did not believe that whoever was occupying his wife's
body was Terri. He said that Terri Schiavo died fifteen years ago.
See:
http://libertytothecaptives.net/michael_schiavo_terri_died_15yearsago.html
Lisa Ruby
Kim Palmer
> cultxpt wrote:
>
>
>>If you're a Scientologist and your
>>husband was in a bad accident,
>>how can you
>>tell the thetan in that body
>>is still your husband?
>
>
> Michael Schiavo did not believe that whoever was occupying his wife's
> body was Terri. He said that Terri Schiavo died fifteen years ago.
>
And he was right - without cognitive brain functions the body is nothing
more than a body - there is no one home when the cognitive brain
functions no longer exist. Anything you think may have been behind her
eyes was your imagination and nothing more - without cognition there is
no there there. - simple science - and if I ever end up in Schiavo's
state I hope my family follows my living will and lets my body die since
I will be dead already.
Kim P
ramona
restitution in the event they caused a woman to miscarry. That is a
far cry from eye for eye tooth for tooth regarding murder. But
christians love to pick and chose and have changed the word of God to
make miscarriage/abortion something it is not.
Ramona
Mike Gormez
<1123782128.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
> Now, if a body does not get it's thetan (soul) until after it's
>born, then what would be wrong with abortion?
You would be killing a mest body driven by a GE, but it's certainly not a
person/homo sapiens, per Hubbard.
I have had this discussion before and dug up some references back then and
others chipping in
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread/d15c11e969d5483f/3f97dd673075166d
Here's a few points:
Re-reading the Declaration of Tera Hattaway. She recalles how she was
persuaded to have an abortion because "all I would be “killing” is a piece
of meat essentially."
===
"But the ordinary entrance of a thetan into a new body is sometime
around what we call the assumption, and the assumption occurs within a few
minutes after birth in most cases. The baby is born and then a thetan
picks up the baby body.
http://www.ronthephilosopher.org/page60.htm
===
From the techinical Hubbard dictionary:
*HOMO SAPIENS, 1**. a mest body, whether it belongs to the race of man or
the race of ants is yet but an animated vegetable. Given a theta being to
guide it, it becomes part of a composite such as *Homo sapiens**. By
itself, the body would live, walk around, react, sleep, kill, and direct
an existence no better than that of a field mouse, or a zombie. Put a
theta being over it and it becomes possessed of ethics and morals and
direction and goals and the ability to reason; it becomes this strange
thing called *Homo sapiens**. (~HOM~~, p. 42)
===
I have collected a few abortion stories here
http://scn-babies.whyaretheydead.net/ without the above discussion. I am
still not sure if the Hubbard 'scriptures' above should be included.
--
Mike Gormez
- World Institute of Scientology Enterprises (WISE) - www.stop-wise.biz
- www.whyaretheydead.net - Why Are They Dead, Scientology?
- Child abuse and neglect by scientologists www.taxexemptchildabuse.net
- www.psychassualt.org - Scientology hatred of mental health (CCHR)
ramona
I can't believe that people cannot figure this out yet!!
I didn't follow scientology during the Sciavo time frame so I don't
know how it relates if at all. Was/is Terri or Michael catholic/scio
combo? Or are the religious fundies just yapping at heels and the CO$
happened to be in Florida so the most near heels to yap at? I
understand the CO$ tone policy, but that woman didn't have ANY, she was
quite thoroughly brain jello...particularly at time of autopsy.
Ramona
>
> Kim P
Ball of Fluff
>
> Now, if a body does not get it's thetan (soul) until after it's
> born, then what would be wrong with abortion?
Nothing. It's an overt if the person thinks it's one. They often do, so it
does come up in auditing. There is a sec check that has that in it.
In my opinion, abortion is not only ok but in some cases should be
retroactive.
C
Kim Palmer
Ramona:
NONE of the parties involved in Schiavo's case were scienos - this was
an invention of the conpiracy theorist Lisa Ruby. She came on this board
during the insanity that was the Schiavo case and started making
connections where there were none. She still insists there are and that
scientology is part of the new world order and the beast 666 and all the
rest of the lunatic conspiracy quackery that is floating out there. She
really does not get reality very well and sees connections where none
exist and conspiracies everywhere. Needs serious help that one but like
schwarz won't get it.
Kim P
realpch
Uh oh! That's more or less what Dave Touretzky said in jest, and it's
been put about by the Church of Scientology to defame him. Watch your
step Missy!
; )
Peach
Lisa Ruby
>*HOMO SAPIENS, 1**. a mest body, whether it belongs to the race of man or
>the race of ants is yet but an animated vegetable. Given a theta being to
>guide it, it becomes part of a composite such as *Homo sapiens**. By
>itself, the body would live, walk around, react, sleep, kill, and direct
>an existence no better than that of a field mouse, or a zombie. Put a
>theta being over it and it becomes possessed of ethics and morals and
>direction and goals and the ability to reason; it becomes this strange
>thing called *Homo sapiens**. (~HOM~~, p. 42)
It is interesting that Hubbard called a human being an animated
vegetable. What would a seemingly unconscious person be called then?
That's right. A vegetable. The euthanasia movement coined this
disparaging term for a person too low on the Scientology tone scale to
matter...in their sight, at least.
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Kim Palmer
tone scale and your repeated attempts and finding some kind of
conspiracy in Terry Schiavo's persistant vegatiative state and the cult
of scientology is ludicrous. Look up in a REAL medical text about
persitant vegatative states and learn something - if I ever end up in a
PVS my family better let my body die or I will come back from the dead
and kick their butts to Albequerque and back. Geeshush woman get a grip
there is no conspiracy no new world order no beast 666 and no tie in
with schiavo and scientology whatsoever so get over it already
Kim P
Lisa Ruby
>Was/is Terri or Michael catholic/scio
>combo?
Terri was Catholic and Michael mocked her for her faith.
I do not know if Terri ever got involved with Scientology or not but
the way someone altered her pictue to look like Lisa McPherson's
autopsy photo has caused me to wonder.
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/altered_picture_terri_looks_like_lisa_mcpherson.html
Michael Schiavo represented his Catholic wife as being a person who
would rather be dead than incapable. Or course this conforms to
Scientology doctrine:
Hubbard wrote:
"You're here so you're a Scientologist. Now we're going to make you an
expert auditor no matter what happens. We'd rather have you dead than
incapable." (HCO POLICY LETTER OF 7 FEBRUARY 1965 REISSUED 15 JUNE
1970).1
Michael has marked this case for Scientology repeatedly. Whether he is
a member of the CoS not is not important. Scientology uses people who
are not members for all kinds of projects.It is often easier for them
to certain objectives if their worker is not known to be connected with
them.
For instance, Judge Greer, (whose campaigns were managed for years by
Mary Repper, a Scientology spokeswoman) made many rulings in this case
that violated Florida statutes and judicial canons. He was publicly
awarded for this misconduct no less than three times. One one of these
occasions, Scientology attorney Wally Pope (a lead attorney in the Lisa
McPherson case) personally handed the award to Judge Greer.
For more information see:
http://libertytothecaptives.net/scientology_vs_terri_schindler_schiavo.html
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives
Lisa Ruby
>twit - the term vegetative state has NOTHING to do with scientology's
>tone scale and your repeated attempts and finding some kind of
>conspiracy in Terry Schiavo's persistant vegatiative state and the cult
>of scientology is ludicrous.
It is far from ludicrous and that is what Scientology is worried about.
I am going beyond pointing out that Terri Schiavo--the first woman to
be killed per a
EUTHANASIA COURT ORDER in the United States of America--was a victim of
Scientology policy. I am going to write about anything I find out about
that has Scientology fingerprints all over it.
Judge Greer, who has retained his position on the bench for years-- via
the efforts of his Scientologist campaign manager, Mary Repper,--issued
the first euthansia court order in the history of the United States.
The order that Terri died under was not your typical (and legal) court
order to remove her assisted feeding and hydration.
The unprecedented and clearly illegal court order that Greer issued on
Feb. 25, 20005 (the anniversary of the day that Terri fell to the
ground with her hands clutching her neck) called for the removal of any
form of food and water from this incapacitated woman.
Read the order for yourself:
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/ordertoremove_regular_foodandwater.html
Judge Greer's "new and euthanasia-approved" court order had nothing to
do with Terri's wishes.
The Illegal Court Order That Killed Terri Schiavo
http://libertytothecaptives.net/terri_died_illegal_court_order.html
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Kim Palmer
> Ramona wrote:
>
>
>>Was/is Terri or Michael catholic/scio
>>combo?
>
>
> Terri was Catholic and Michael mocked her for her faith.
>
>
BOO!! Seen any black helicopters lately??
Kim P
Kim Palmer
> Kim P wrote:
>
>
>>twit - the term vegetative state has NOTHING to do with scientology's
>>tone scale and your repeated attempts and finding some kind of
>>conspiracy in Terry Schiavo's persistant vegatiative state and the cult
>>of scientology is ludicrous.
>
>
> It is far from ludicrous and that is what Scientology is worried about.
>
> I am going beyond pointing out that Terri Schiavo--the first woman to
> be killed per a
> EUTHANASIA COURT ORDER in the United States of America--was a victim of
> Scientology policy. I am going to write about anything I find out about
> that has Scientology fingerprints all over it.
>
her congnitive functions were non-existant - this means : no ability to
think, feel, express herself, or interact with her enviroment - all the
photos show is the involuntary reactions that many people in PVS have -
Who wants to live merely as a body? NOt me - if I end up in PVS I hope
that no one insists on keeping the corpus alive because without the
mentis there is no life.
Kim P
Lisa Ruby
following Scientology policy:
"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal.' By then be sure
the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not."
- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4
January 1966, "LRH Relationship to Orgs
See: Florida Law Vs Scientology Policy
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/florida_law_vs_scientology_policy.html
If anyone is reading this thread, be sure to read Mike Gomez' post on
August 12th. The focus of this thread is supposed to be about Hubbard's
doctrine and abortion (and infanticide).
Lisa Ruby
Ball of Fluff
"ramona" <atlr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123854503.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
There's no Scn link.
C
Ball of Fluff
So anytime stuff happens, it's Scn??
??
C
Lisa Ruby
>NOt me - if I end up in PVS I hope
>that no one insists on keeping the corpus alive because without the
>mentis there is no life.
If I end up incapacitated but non-PVS I would not want to be
exterminated based on the PVS diagnosis of a doctor who knows that in
order to keep his license he had better not oppose the policies of the
new order which require that people like me (low on Scientology's scale
of enlightenment) be disposed of quiety and without sorrow.
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Kim Palmer
theories too.
Kim P
Kim Palmer
there is NO new world order now or coming - and PVS is not a fantasm -
it is a real medical diagnosis - the problem today is we have all this
technology - and we can keep bodies functioning but that is not to say
people are having lives but merely existing. Because we can keep a
corpus running even if the mentis is irretrievably gone we should? I
don't think so. I also believe that assisted suicide should be
acceptable by law - why should a person have to endure the agonies of a
death by millimeters - when all medical intervention is useless and the
only thing left is pain management a person should be allowed to die
even if they need help doing it. Suffering serves no one - ever.
Kim P
Lisa Ruby
>So anytime stuff happens, it's Scn??
When "stuff" happens that parallels what Scientology got away with
doing to Lisa McPherson I take notice.
The main criminal issues in the Lisa McPherson and Terri Schiavo cases
are the same:
abuse and/or neglect of a disabled adult
practice of medicine without a license
death by dehydration
see: Pat Anderson and Her Role in the Lisa McPherson Case
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/pat_anderson_lisa_mcpherson.html
Kim Palmer
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
>
>
>>So anytime stuff happens, it's Scn??
>
>
> When "stuff" happens that parallels what Scientology got away with
> doing to Lisa McPherson I take notice.
>
> The main criminal issues in the Lisa McPherson and Terri Schiavo cases
> are the same:
>
> abuse and/or neglect of a disabled adult
schiavo was NOT abused contrary to all the right wing nutters screeching
>
> practice of medicine without a license
somehow the doctors and nurses at her care facility might have a problem
with that I think
>
> death by dehydration
schiavo was pvs - which means she was not really living and her death
was humane unlike lisa mcphereson who needed psychiatric care and in not
getting it - instead getting the retarded introspection rundown done
according to a drugged out con man's ideas of what works .
Your tenuous ties are ridiclous and your insistance on conspiracies
where there are none are bat guano.
Kim P
ramona
>
> Terri was Catholic and Michael mocked her for her faith.
You failed to mention that Michael was ALSO catholic, but unlike
Terri's family he was willing to give her what GOD asked...her death.
Apparently Terri's family didn't have enough faith in God to LET GO
when God CALLED her.
>
> I do not know if Terri ever got involved with Scientology or not but
> the way someone altered her pictue to look like Lisa McPherson's
> autopsy photo has caused me to wonder.
Clearly you don't know that Michael was involved either. You are
making assumptions based on a W.A.G.
>
> Michael Schiavo represented his Catholic wife as being a person who
> would rather be dead than incapable.
Incapable?? The woman was functionally dead and even required a
feeding tube for sustenance. While the feeding tube is one issue, she
had no other function to compensate.
>Or course this conforms to
> Scientology doctrine:
Now you sound like REV Enturbulator associating one thing with another
based on a commonality. You do realize that is completely illogical.
> Michael has marked this case for Scientology repeatedly.
It's not about CO$ it's about death with dignity and under ones own
rules.
> Whether he is
> a member of the CoS not is not important.
It is ALL important since THAT is what you are claiming. You seem now
to be backpeddling. I will take a wild guess and say that you are a
christian that is willing the "lie for the Lord."
>Scientology uses people who
> are not members for all kinds of projects.
Catholics pay bingo at the rectory. Catholics must own Vegas. That
seems to be your reasoning. Prove a relationship between Schiavo and
CO$.
>It is often easier for them
> to certain objectives if their worker is not known to be connected with
> them.
Yes that do that, but no correlation here has made. Prove that Michael
Sciavo is acting with CO$ first.
>
> For instance, Judge Greer, (whose campaigns were managed for years by
> Mary Repper, a Scientology spokeswoman) made many rulings in this case
> that violated Florida statutes and judicial canons. He was publicly
> awarded for this misconduct no less than three times. One one of these
> occasions, Scientology attorney Wally Pope (a lead attorney in the Lisa
> McPherson case) personally handed the award to Judge Greer.
You still have the tail wagging the dog. I see nothing but a husband
that wishes to allow his wife peace at last. I see a judge that
aggrees with him. Are you aware that despite all the false claims that
the "lying for the Lord" Schindlers made regarding abuse were always
found FALSE. In her 15 years as a victim of her parents selfishness,
her husband so thouroughly cared for her as to not have a single Single
SINGLE bedsore. FYI Chris Reeves ultimately died because of an
infection caused by a bed sore. That says the quality of care at the
hands of Michael Schiavo for Terri. Ah but you care not for Terri
Schiavo, you simply wish to be greater than GOD when God decides it is
time to go home. "Oh you of little faith."
Ramona
ramona
jello for brains.
Second, she WAS in pvs and not non-pvs.
Third, she was exceptionally cared for by her husband to the point that
the nurses wanted a restraining order on him. It seems he demanded the
nurses perform exceptional care on Terri and they were less than
pleased with him about that. The judge ruled that Michael had every
right to make demands for her care.
Hmm, where were Terri's parents? Oh they were not yet being PAID OFF
by right-to-life yet so they were not involved in Terri's care. Oddly
enough, it was MR. Schindler that demanded money for RENT from Michael
AND TERRI when Michael was caring for Terri while staying at the
Schiavo HOME. Wow isn't that just swell of Terri's parents? Michael
is awarded payment based on his being spouse and daddy and momy dearest
demand some of that money.
After Michael took Terri to California for treatment, you know the
treatment that the Schindler's were screaming about that she never
received, Oh more lies for the lord by the Schindlers. In California
it was made obvious to Michael by the physicians that Terri would not
recover because she could not recover...she had pvs. No treatment
could help her recover since she was already effctively dead and into
very limited brain stem function.
When the reality that Terri was pvs hit, then Michael needed to change
plans which Terri desired. He followed her desire to die with dignity.
Unfortunately the Schindler's would not have that since they desire a
full pocket. Thanks to the group, right to life, that is what they
got. It was all about that dirty bastard Schindler's desire to have
money over his daughter's death with dignity. And Right to Life was
offering plenty, while Michael was forced to use his own money.
The best part of this whole thing was the Pope's death soon thereafter.
Funny thing is he DIDN'T use all the heroics that were forced upon
Terri by her lying for the lord parents.
Ramona
ramona
lolroflmao!!!
R
Ball of Fluff
Actually, Michael Schiavo spent years and years caring for Terri. He even
switched fields so that he could care for her better. Then, when after
several years, he became convinced that she wasn't coming back, that she was
irrevocably brain damaged (which the autopsy later showed) and he moved on
with his life, some people acted as if he'd done all that on day one.
C
Ball of Fluff
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
>
>>So anytime stuff happens, it's Scn??
>
> When "stuff" happens that parallels what Scientology got away with
> doing to Lisa McPherson I take notice.
Scn didn't do anything because it's a subject in books and tapes.
I believe you are referring to CofS.
>
> The main criminal issues in the Lisa McPherson and Terri Schiavo cases
> are the same:
>
> abuse and/or neglect of a disabled adult
Michael Schiavo spent years and years and years caring for Terri. She
suffered no neglect. She was a vegetable. McPherson was not a vegetable and
did suffer neglect.
C
Ball of Fluff
"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:42FCDD0C...@aol.com...
>>
>> In my opinion, abortion is not only ok but in some cases should be
>> retroactive.
>>
>> C
>
> Uh oh! That's more or less what Dave Touretzky said in jest, and it's
> been put about by the Church of Scientology to defame him. Watch your
> step Missy!
>
> ; )
>
It's a saying I've had a long time, too. Great minds think alike. (hi,
Dave!)
Thing is, if CofS wants to harass someone they'll do it. They'll use
whatever's there and if there isn't anything, they will just invent
something...
C
Barbara Schwarz
roger gonnet wrote:
> "cultxpt" <cul...@ev1.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 1123782128.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > "Have You Lived Before This Life?" is one of the most entertaining
> > Scientology books. It gives examples of the amazing scientific
> > "research" Hubbard did into past lives, and the procedures for a thetan
> > to take on a new body so he can get back into this MEST game (MEST is
> > just a postulate, after all).
> > I just ran across a photocopy of pages 40 and 41 of the book, so I'll
> > just mention a few things from it.
> >
> > When a thetan has left one body, his desire is to go get another one.
> > So he looks around for another body that is about to be born or is
> > about to have its current thetan possibly abandon the body. If it's a
> > baby, the thetan will go so far as to follow a pregnant woman around.
> > When it's time to give birth, "The baby is born and THEN a thetan picks
> > the baby up." So for 2 or 3 minutes the human there has no soul,
> > apparently, until the thetan hops in. Hubbard has no interest in
> > whether the baby could survive without a thetan taking up residence
> > because it "is beside the point."
> >
> > Alternatively, a thetan could go to an emergency ward and wait for a
> > damaged body. After the current thetan/occupant leaves, "He will pick
> > up this body and pretend to be somebody's husband or something of the
> > sort." Now doesn't that just beg lots and lots of questions? If you're
> > a Scientologist and your husband was in a bad accident, how can you
> > tell the thetan in that body is still your husband?
> >
> > body is like, but "...they don't shut their memory off until they pick
> > another body up." So once they jump back into the MEST universe
> > through the body portal, their memory is clouded.
> >
> > A theory of what a ghost is is that it is the tormented soul of someone
> > who died some horrible way, or unattended. They are hanging around
> > because they did not get a proper sendoff. Hubbard agrees with this
> > about thetans, who stick around their previous body if it was no
> > properly buried. "Therefore, he hangs around a body until it is
> > properly disposed of."
> >
> > Now, if a body does not get it's thetan (soul) until after it's
> > born, then what would be wrong with abortion?
>
> spilled many of his dianetics beans on women trying to abort (while HE himself
> has asked his first wife to abort), and a no problem since anyway, he wanted to
> do only what could have some interest for him.
>
> r
I am sure that L. Ron Hubbard never had a "first wife" and that his
woman made it all up, the marriage and what he said and did.
When you read the Dianetics book and when you study the tonescale you
will get that Ron was completely opposed to any abortion for ethical
reasons. Abortion is murder and leaves the thetan with bad engrams.
Barbara Schwarz
www.religiousfreedomwatch.org
www.cchr.org
ramona
Ball of Fluff wrote:
> "ramona" <atlr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1123938948.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>
Yes he did, but some of that time she spent in a nursing home, even
then he cared for her in the demands he made of the nursing staff.
He even
> switched fields so that he could care for her better.
Yes, he became a nurse.
Then, when after
> several years, he became convinced that she wasn't coming back, that she was
> irrevocably brain damaged
Yes, and that was after he tried the therapy that the Schindler's
insisted was not tried and would "cure" her. The Schindler's appear to
be nothing but money grubbing liars for their lord.
(which the autopsy later showed) and he moved on
> with his life, some people acted as if he'd done all that on day one.
Yes, but the fact remains that it was years and AFTER the therapy the
Schindler's claimed would rehabilitate Terri. It didn't do anything
because she was effectively already dead. It's amazing how little
brain stem function can allow a dead person appear alive.
This is a little graphic so if you at all squemish don't read further.
Here is an example: My mother fell down the basement stairs hitting
her head on the cement floor. She had multiple broken bones besides.
Blood was splattered over the floor, walls and herself. It was
obviously a very gruesome sight. Atheists ignore this next sentence.
I could feel her spirit gone, no question about it.
Post ct it was clear that there was no hope of life. She had multiple
subdueral hemotomas. We spoke with the neurosurgeon about organ
donation and set that up. She was officially called and the donation
continued. What remained was autopsied. Since an accident occurred
any question regarding her death needed to be answered. The autopsy
showed that despite the fact that she was moving, despite the fact that
her eyes appeared "alive" based on people's reaction to her, her
autopsy showed that her brain had separated from it's base. In
layman's terms she had been decapitated save for the skin holding her
head on.
Long gone are the days in which people were alive or dead, instead we
have medical intervention which seems to blur that line for the layman.
Just as my mother was dead from the moment she hit her head, even
though she appeared alive to others so too was Terri dead even if
slight brain stem function tricked the eye into believing she was
alive.
How does this relate to CO$? It doesn't. People (usually fundies) are
afraid of death and desire to fight it every step of the way,
unfortunately medical invervention allows the fight to continue even
after death for unfortunate souls like Terri. So much for fundies that
trust in the lord. It seems they are the ones most afraid of dying to
me. Apparently they are required "faith" in their God, but do not
trust the old bearded fellow.
Ramona
Kim Palmer
You are right there Ramona - no one should equate being alive with
living and like I said corpus without mentis is not even existing.
Just because we have the technology does not mean we need to use it.
Kim P
Ball of Fluff
> How does this relate to CO$? It doesn't. People (usually fundies) are
> afraid of death and desire to fight it every step of the way,
> unfortunately medical invervention allows the fight to continue even
> after death for unfortunate souls like Terri. So much for fundies that
> trust in the lord. It seems they are the ones most afraid of dying to
> me. Apparently they are required "faith" in their God, but do not
> trust the old bearded fellow.
>
Right.
I knew a family where the father had died, a heart attack, something like
that. The paramedics came and brought him back after several minutes. He had
anoxia, loss of oxygen, he was essentially a vegetable.
The family then had to decide whether or not to pull the plug.
But he probably was already gone. The paramedics had only brought the body
back.
C
moontaco
> cultxpt wrote:
> > Now, if a body does not get it's thetan (soul) until after it's
> > born, then what would be wrong with abortion?
>
>
> In this video Astra Woodcraft is explaining that the "C"oS in
> Clearwater was pressuring pregnant members to have abortions because
> they didn't want to support any more children.
>
> "I was being told that abortion is okay because the spirit enters the
> body right at birth for L. Ron Hubbard. So, abortion isn't wrong
> because you're just killing, basically, a meat body."
I'm sure I've read about this before and seen it discussed, so maybe it
has been explained some way and I missed it.
I know that there was something LRH said about how if a pregnant woman
has intercourse the fetus will have an engram from being repeatedly
poked by the man, and that if the couple has a fight and one of them
yells something at the other--say, "You are a worthless piece of
shit!"--the fetus will record that and believe that parent is a
worthless piece of shit. Or something along those lines.
How is that possible if the thetan doesn't occupy the baby's body until
after it's born?
moontaco
cultxpt
ex-Scientologist to answer moontaco's question. If there's no thetan,
how can there be engrams?
Lisa Ruby
>You failed to mention that Michael was ALSO catholic, but unlike
>Terri's family he was willing to give her what GOD asked
Actually, Michael Schiavo is no Catholic.
"Michael used to laugh when Terri went to mass with us," Bob
[Schindler] said. "He would say, 'Say some prayers for
me.'http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=17038
Lisa Ruby
http://www.libertytothecaptives.net
Kim Palmer
big whoop this means NOTHING except what you have decided to make it fit
your conspiracy theory - it really is meaningless and according to the
catholic church I am catholic and I have not set foot in a catholic
building in years ...except for the odd wedding or funeral. I do not
even consider myself christian in the broadest of definitions.
Kim P
ramona
unbiased or accurate of rags.
Second - The Schindler's were money grubbing leaches, grabbing from the
Religious Right, so I would expect "BOB" to skew the truth as he seemed
readily capable. That is why they wanted Terri "alive", because
without her the funds would run dry.
Third - I would interpret it as supportive to request prayers.
Fourth - Michael also accused Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler,
of engaging in religious hypocrisy and using religion to raise money.
"Suddenly, they are on the religious kick. They never went to church a
day in their lives,'' Michael said. "I believe in God and so did Terri,
but they are out to push it on people.''
Michael says the Schindlers orchestrated a campaign to send e-mail to
the governor through a web site that also raises money from
right-to-life supporters. He accused the Schindlers of using his wife's
Catholic faith to their own ends.
From
http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=26&art_id=20307
Fifth - March 24, 2005
Michael Schiavo Accused of Atheism
If I had thought about it, I probably would have expected it. People
who disagree with what is being done to Terri Schiavo have reached down
in to the blackest depths of their hearts and come up with the worst
insult they can think of: they call him an atheist.
The Ledger reports:
"We feel like we're the silent majority," says Harmon, who claims
fellow protesters have thrown salt on him and called him an atheist. "I
just feel like Michael Schiavo went through the court system for seven
years and so I believe we have to believe in our court system and that
it works."
Calling him an atheist because they hate what he is doing is only
possible in a culture where atheists are reviled, despised, and hated.
This is the culture of "love" for conservative evangelicals. Imagine if
he called Michael Schiavo a "dirty Jew"?
"Those of us in faith have been missing in action," Daubenmire says.
"How come Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson aren't laying in front of
that door over there? If they really believe a woman is being murdered,
where is the church?"
That's a very good question. If religious and political leaders aren't
grandstanding and really believe that Terri Schiavo is being murdered,
why aren't they doing exactly what Daubenmire suggests?
From http://atheism.about.com/b/a/156257.htm
Ramona
ramona
As an unrepentant Randall Terry, the antiabortion protester who
interjected himself into the middle of this debacle, told Newsday this
week: "Our contention all along is you err on the side of life."
And, oh, how we erred.
From
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/pennsylvania/11914505.htm
Ramona