and another one gone (from Narconon Stone Hawk)
Dave Touretzky
My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
Narconon. Yikes!! Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
though Narconon tries to limit access in the first couple of weeks)
and told her the place was filthy and a madhouse.
So mama shows up yesterday to collect her boy -- accompanied by the
local sheriff! This sparked some interesting discussion amongst the
staff and clientele. The sheriff said he was just there for "backup":
I guess mama didn't believe that Narconon would release her son and
his personal property without sufficient encouragement. The son was
released and everybody left quietly. No word about whether she got a
refund.
Jai Ehlert, the Senior Director of Administration at Narconon Stone
Hawk, is bewildered. Why are so many students leaving? And why is
law enforcement now getting involved?
It's all those SPs on your lines, Jai. Isn't it obvious?
-- Dave Touretzky: "Want to buy a bridge to The Bridge?"
http://Stop-Narconon.org
jerald
Can't wait to see how they spin this on their blog.
jerald
Zinj
says...
<snip>
> Jai Ehlert, the Senior Director of Administration at Narconon Stone
> Hawk, is bewildered. Why are so many students leaving? And why is
> law enforcement now getting involved?
>
> It's all those SPs on your lines, Jai. Isn't it obvious?
Quite obviously they pulled it in.
But; whatever else, there *will* be an 'incident report' with
the Sheriff's Office.
Is anyone close enough to get a copy?
Maybe somebody from the local paper?
They usually assign some assistant or intern to pick up 'desk
logs'.
Maybe they'd like to actually 'delve' a bit? :)
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
Zinj
@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, jerald...@hotmail.com says...
<snip>
> Can't wait to see how they spin this on their blog.
>
> jerald
Unless something *else* happens, they won't.
It'll be just another 'nothing happened - why would we mention
it?'
Barbara Schwarz
Dave Touretzky wrote:
> My
Narconon has the ability to rehability people from drugs. I personally
know people who were successful and for life rehabilitated. If the boy
dies, all those who posted against Narconon and caused a parent to
believe their lies, they would be guilty of his murder, would they
not?
----
Number one suspect of being Wikipedia (Wikipiggy) smearer, defamer,
and harasser "Orsini" is Canadian Kady O'Malley. She defamed not only
Mark (Marty) Rathbun and I - but according to this website, fanatical
O'Malley is specialized of harassing Scientologists:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.com/anti-religious-extremists/kady-omalley/
"Orsini" teams up on Wikipedia with defamer, forger, and harasser
"Vivaldi", who is Korey Jerome Kruse from Olathe, Kansas. He just came
out of jail and is, according to the court, a habital offender:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS210US211&q=korey%20Kruse&btnG=Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wg
These fanatical people are protected by a Wikipedia administrator from
England, with name Christopher Owens. Chris Owens is biased towards
Scientology and Scientologists and uses his bias to protect defamers
and harassers on Wikipedia and assist them in defaming Scientology and
Scientologists. He never bans any fanatical and harassing anti-
Scientologist from Wikipedia but Scientologists are banned for nothing
else but being Scientologists. Even non-Scientologists are banned from
Wikipedia, if they don't hate Scientology or Scientologists.
According to this website, Wikipedia administrator Christopher Owens
admires Osama Bin Laden.
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.com/anti-religious-extremists/david-touretzky/terrorism/
----
Barbara Schwarz
antisectes
taking a shot unexpectedly and either p^retending this is a friendly
visit by local sheriff to congrtulate Nn authorities?
Unless the reverse, "an SP ____ has been expelled from Nn stonbhawk,
needeing the help of the local sheriff's office?"
who knows...
barbz
> My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
> news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
> week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
> Narconon. Yikes!! Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
> though Narconon tries to limit access in the first couple of weeks)
> and told her the place was filthy and a madhouse.
What is WRONG with these people, that they drop off their kids, pay
their money and THEN go on the Internet?
SHEESH! Google first, ask questions later. Fuck.
>
> So mama shows up yesterday to collect her boy -- accompanied by the
> local sheriff! This sparked some interesting discussion amongst the
> staff and clientele. The sheriff said he was just there for "backup":
> I guess mama didn't believe that Narconon would release her son and
> his personal property without sufficient encouragement. The son was
> released and everybody left quietly. No word about whether she got a
> refund.
>
> Jai Ehlert, the Senior Director of Administration at Narconon Stone
> Hawk, is bewildered. Why are so many students leaving? And why is
> law enforcement now getting involved?
>
> It's all those SPs on your lines, Jai. Isn't it obvious?
>
> -- Dave Touretzky: "Want to buy a bridge to The Bridge?"
> http://Stop-Narconon.org
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
"Keep fighting for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't forget to
have fun doin' it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous,
ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can
produce."
--Molly Ivins
barbz
Easily. They won't ack it at all.
Keith Henson
>
>My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
>news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
>week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
>Narconon. Yikes!! Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
>though Narconon tries to limit access in the first couple of weeks)
>and told her the place was filthy and a madhouse.
>
>So mama shows up yesterday to collect her boy -- accompanied by the
>local sheriff! This sparked some interesting discussion amongst the
>staff and clientele. The sheriff said he was just there for "backup":
>I guess mama didn't believe that Narconon would release her son and
>his personal property without sufficient encouragement. The son was
>released and everybody left quietly. No word about whether she got a
>refund.
Remember that email to Vince Daniels? The one were someone claiming
to be an ex scientologist stated that the cult would go after him for
interfering with an income source.
No matter what the guy was, the key claim of his was that scientology
holds Narconon to be an income source. If you think about it, he is
probably right, and the cult makes a *lot* of money off Narconon.
As I understand it, Narconon's charges are not much out of line with
other treatment places, about 25k for 6 months.
So the only way they could be making a lot of money is to get their
costs down. Main cost for such establishments would be staff, and
while and people with the kinds of degrees and training required may
not highly paid, they are not minimum wage folks either.
Food and shelter using scientology's standard are not expensive, my
guess would be around $2,500 for 6 months. Cleaning (if done at all)
would be by the residents and no cost. Detox is cold turkey,
dangerous but done that way you don't need medical people.
Supervision is minimal.
As an estimate from a distance, scientology collects directly or
indirectly most of the money people pay, perhaps as much as $200,000
for a pod of ten "students." That's a substantial cash flow.
Any chance of getting a look at the Narconon Stone Hawk books?
Keith Henson
Tigger
Zinj wrote:
> In article <1174020807.652511.26470
> @y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, jerald...@hotmail.com says...
>
> <snip>
>
> > Can't wait to see how they spin this on their blog.
> >
> > jerald
>
> Unless something *else* happens, they won't.
>
> It'll be just another 'nothing happened - why would we mention
> it?'
>
I don't think they will mention it either except maybe to spin it and
make it look like some SP is trying to destroy a "successful" drug
rehab that saves lives...blah, blah, blah.
But I would bet there will be a bloodhound search for the "source at
Narconon".
So I wonder about posting info about the source "at Narconon". If,
indeed, there is an "SP" at Narconon, won't revealing that pose a
personal risk for the SP and/or loss of the "source"?
Tigger
Android Cat
I thought that it was significant that CoS was willing to bring out the old
dirty tricks units for Narconon stuff even though they barely even send out
Avagrams for Xenu these days.
"What Scientology Inc is really terrified of"
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_frm/thread/f0839a581455d559/f365cdb58a5831fc#f365cdb58a5831fc
There's also the investment in recruitment which can't be discounted, no
matter how much Narconon tries to spin it. If you can take someone with an
addiction and replace it with dedication to Scientology and the *fear* that
it is the only thing keeping the addiction from returning, they have
acquired a very committed follower.
Synanon managed to build the entire cult from that base alone (but didn't
quite manage CoS's post-Snow White damage control). And now there's one less
competitor working that angle on addicts and their families.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon
--
Ron of that ilk.
Zinj
androi...@hotmail.com says...
The parallels between Synanon and Scientology are numerous,
although, Synanon was smaller and hadn't had the time to develop
the more 'civil' and comprehensive social mask that Scientology
has created.
I'd highly recommend reading 'The Light on Synanon', which
covers the tiny Point Reyes Light newspaper which was central to
exposing Synanon's malicious activity.
Anyone with any familiarity with Scientology will feel right at
home with Synanon :)
To quote Charles Dederich, Synanon 'Source': "We're not going
to mess with the old-time, turn-the-other-cheek religious
postures ... our religious posture is: Don't mess with us. You
can get killed dead, literally dead...these are real threats,"
Eldon
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
> > My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
> > news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
> > week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
> > Narconon. Yikes!! Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
> > though Narconon tries to limit access in the first couple of weeks)
> > and told her the place was filthy and a madhouse.
>
> What is WRONG with these people, that they drop off their kids, pay
> their money and THEN go on the Internet?
What is "wrong" with them is only that they are slow adopters. There's
probably still a 40% demographic group in the US who don't have
Internet access or aren't proficient enough to do research. So
Narconon's prospect base is only down by maybe 60% so far (estimated
figures may vary).
>
> SHEESH! Google first, ask questions later. Fuck.
Internet use is still an increasing demographic. I certainly agree
that 99.99% prevention is in order. It's only a matter of time--so
stay patient. OK?
Android Cat
>> discounted, no matter how much Narconon tries to spin it. If you
>> can take someone with an addiction and replace it with dedication to
>> Scientology and the *fear* that it is the only thing keeping the
>> addiction from returning, they have acquired a very committed
>> follower.
>>
>> Synanon managed to build the entire cult from that base alone (but
>> didn't quite manage CoS's post-Snow White damage control). And now
>> there's one less competitor working that angle on addicts and their
>> families. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon
>
> The parallels between Synanon and Scientology are numerous,
> although, Synanon was smaller and hadn't had the time to develop
> the more 'civil' and comprehensive social mask that Scientology
> has created.
>
> I'd highly recommend reading 'The Light on Synanon', which
> covers the tiny Point Reyes Light newspaper which was central to
> exposing Synanon's malicious activity.
>
> Anyone with any familiarity with Scientology will feel right at
> home with Synanon :)
>
> To quote Charles Dederich, Synanon 'Source': "We're not going
> to mess with the old-time, turn-the-other-cheek religious
> postures ... our religious posture is: Don't mess with us. You
> can get killed dead, literally dead...these are real threats,"
I wonder who bought Synanon's mailing list and other assets when they closed
down?
There is a Synanon reference in P.K. Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_. I'll have
to recheck that.
--
Ron of that ilk.
Does CoS sell Substance-D(ianetics)?
Out_Of_The_Dark
> On 15 Mar 2007 23:47:44 -0500, d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
> wrote:
> >My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
> >news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk
> Remember that email to Vince Daniels? The one were someone claiming
> to be an ex scientologist stated that the cult would go after him for
> interfering with an income source.
>
> No matter what the guy was, the key claim of his was that scientology
> holds Narconon to be an income source. If you think about it, he is
> probably right, and the cult makes a *lot* of money off Narconon.
>
> As I understand it, Narconon's charges are not much out of line with
> other treatment places, about 25k for 6 months.
>
> So the only way they could be making a lot of money is to get their
> costs down. Main cost for such establishments would be staff, and
> while and people with the kinds of degrees and training required may
> not highly paid, they are not minimum wage folks either.
>
> Food and shelter using scientology's standard are not expensive, my
> guess would be around $2,500 for 6 months. Cleaning (if done at all)
> would be by the residents and no cost. Detox is cold turkey,
> dangerous but done that way you don't need medical people.
> Supervision is minimal.
>
> As an estimate from a distance, scientology collects directly or
> indirectly most of the money people pay, perhaps as much as $200,000
> for a pod of ten "students." That's a substantial cash flow.
>
> Any chance of getting a look at the Narconon Stone Hawk books?
>
> Keith Henson
>
>
> > http://Stop-Narconon.org < <
Keith, I sent you an email with where to get their financial returns
information
Mary
Out_Of_The_Dark
barbz
> On Mar 16, 5:03 pm, barbz <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote:
>> Dave Touretzky wrote:
>>> My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
>>> news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
>>> week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
>>> Narconon. Yikes!! Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
>>> though Narconon tries to limit access in the first couple of weeks)
>>> and told her the place was filthy and a madhouse.
>> What is WRONG with these people, that they drop off their kids, pay
>> their money and THEN go on the Internet?
>
> What is "wrong" with them is only that they are slow adopters. There's
> probably still a 40% demographic group in the US who don't have
> Internet access or aren't proficient enough to do research. So
> Narconon's prospect base is only down by maybe 60% so far (estimated
> figures may vary).
>> SHEESH! Google first, ask questions later. Fuck.
>
> Internet use is still an increasing demographic. I certainly agree
> that 99.99% prevention is in order. It's only a matter of time--so
> stay patient. OK?
Heh. I realize that I have no choice. Patience...if it works for
fishing, it should work for Scientology and its front groups...
antisectes
> Dave Touretzky wrote:
>> My
>
>
> Narconon has the ability to rehability people from drugs.
less than 10 % successes. Wow, what a rate for the most expansive system
ever!
r
Simkatu
Dave-
You are out ethics! You will never become upstat if you keep exposing
all the abuses that Narconon Stone Hawk engages in. If you aren't
careful you'll be sent to the RPF!
Isn't it nice to see that the critics work over the years is paying
off and saving countless numbers of people from getting involved with
this dangerous group?
--
Simkatu
Fredric L. Rice
>My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
>news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
>week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
>Narconon. Yikes!!
That's something I don't understand. Such research should be done
_before_ hand. Doing so would ensure that the Scientoloft frauds
would almost entirely end.
> Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
>though Narconon tries to limit access in the first
>couple of weeks) and told her the place was filthy
>and a madhouse.
That's how their business office in Newport Beach is described.
---
Welcome to Nazi America thanks to Christian Republicanism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfhUaUuG1sM
Fredric L. Rice
>Dave Touretzky wrote:
>> My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
>> news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
>> week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
>> Narconon. Yikes!! Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
>> though Narconon tries to limit access in the first couple of weeks)
>> and told her the place was filthy and a madhouse.
>What is WRONG with these people, that they drop off their kids, pay
>their money and THEN go on the Internet?
>SHEESH! Google first, ask questions later. Fuck.
Ha! That was my first impression. I get email from people who find
the Crackpots.ORG web site first and express thankfulness that they
didn't "waste our money" on Scientology. My response is that the
money isn't as critical a factor as the health and wellbeing of the
person they were considering subjecting to Scientology's quack
medical frauds and financial crimes.
barbz
> d...@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) wrote:
>
>> My source at Narconon Stone Hawk has just relayed some interesting
>> news. It seems a concerned parent dropped her son off at Stone Hawk a
>> week ago, then got on the Internet and discovered the truth about
>> Narconon. Yikes!!
>
> That's something I don't understand. Such research should be done
> _before_ hand. Doing so would ensure that the Scientoloft frauds
> would almost entirely end.
My thoughts exactly. Still, I do understand how this can happen.
Narconon has a huge web presence, which includes "informative" sites
taken right from federal pamphlets, like "The truth about heroin," etc.
And they have dozens of promotional websites offering unrealistic
success rates and miracle cures. These are parents desperate to do
something before their kid ODs. The websites are slick and nominally
professional in appearance. Once contacted, the friendly sales force are
sympathetic and enthusiastically assure them that their child can be
cured with (Scientology) treatment. And who would ever suspect these
people would lie?
So, they send the kid off. Maybe they tell a friend about this wonderful
treatment facility in Michigan, and the person says, "Oh, no! Not Narconon!"
And then the web search begins...
>
>> Plus her son managed to reach her by phone (even
>> though Narconon tries to limit access in the first
>> couple of weeks) and told her the place was filthy
>> and a madhouse.
>
> That's how their business office in Newport Beach is described.
>
>
> ---
> Welcome to Nazi America thanks to Christian Republicanism:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfhUaUuG1sM
>
R. Hill
<snip>
> As I understand it, Narconon's charges are not much out of line with
> other treatment places, about 25k for 6 months.
>
> So the only way they could be making a lot of money is to get their
> costs down. Main cost for such establishments would be staff, and
> while and people with the kinds of degrees and training required may
> not highly paid, they are not minimum wage folks either.
>
> Food and shelter using scientology's standard are not expensive, my
> guess would be around $2,500 for 6 months. Cleaning (if done at all)
> would be by the residents and no cost. Detox is cold turkey,
> dangerous but done that way you don't need medical people.
> Supervision is minimal.
>
> As an estimate from a distance, scientology collects directly or
> indirectly most of the money people pay, perhaps as much as $200,000
> for a pod of ten "students." That's a substantial cash flow.
>
> Any chance of getting a look at the Narconon Stone Hawk books?
>
> KeithHenson
I think it's worth analyzing their number. An example of an oddity in
their 2005 990 form:
Public support: 14,416$
Fundraising expenses: 61,369$
That's an horrible ratio: 4.25$ spent to raise 1$ from the public...
Most of the fundraising expense went to compensate management. Worth
to look at all this... And 1.2m$ in advertising to generate 7.7m$ in
gross income? It would be good to research the 'industry' averages for
other high profile facilities (ex. narcotic anonymous) to compare
these numbers...
Ray.
<snip>
BigBeard
"R. Hill" <rh...@xenu-directory.net> wrote in message
news:1174184657.1...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Those numbers are way high compared to valid non-profits I'm
aware of, e.g., Disabled American Vets. Just my opinion, but to
me they look like the kind of numbers you'd see in a not too
subtle attempt to hide money being siphoned off to other
purposes.
It's the kind of thing that usually draws attention from State or
Federal Attorney Generals if it gets noticed by their staffs.
BigBeard
Katana ko chi, SPsoo