Marty says Pat Broeker bad
t_shuffle
five years of his life."
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/1984-the-severe-reality-adjustment/
I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
phil scott
> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the last
> five years of his life."
>
>
> I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
that history then puts Marty in the mix at management or pre
management levels as early
as 1979...age 20 or whatever.
So he has been around to see the entire ruthless crime
wave develop, and participate in a way that impressed the other
gutless cowards and was
advanced to chief thug because of it.... making him culpable as hell
on every level.
He saw the crime wave as it developed, and stayed in...he would have
seen the massive
rip offs also..and no recoveries, and suicides... and all that, and
not objected, and supported the
ruthlessness or he would not have been promoted by the head slime
bags.
it has been a relief for me to get an inside look at such a guttless
and corrupt mind.
I had
a good idea of the cowardice involved but not any idea that it was
being perpetrated
by people with no actual balls... Miscavige perhaps the single
exception. But always hiding from the
public except at staged events... and also the others. I think if I
had ever seen any of them face to face
Id of said to myself that I wouldnt hire any of them to clean
toilets....
Phil scott
t_shuffle
"t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
Pat is one of the few people left that know exactly what was going on at the
end. For Marty to DA him to all his new followers is sort of telling.
phil scott
> five years of his life."
>
>
> I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
I replied to Paolo and Robin Scott (no relation) cleanly on the
techncial issues,
it will be interesting to see what Marty does with those.
His own responses to others however are hard core in the extreme...id
say
he is not about to learn anything ever on these issues... a complete
stone
wall from what I can tell.
That would put his show on TV of an innocent
in the fakery range.... and would account for his rising in the ranks
of the
criminal cult so completely... along with his brainwash... it is
complete
imo/
none of that bodes well at all for Marty in any aspect. That is
unfortunate
but hardly un expected. He seems to have the ability to stone wall
mistaken
for courage or whatever.
Phil scott
Eldon
> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the last
> five years of his life."
>
>
> I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
I don't get how Marty ~knows~ Pat (and by implication Annie) Broeker
conspired with DM to "hold LRH hostage". It's obvious from other
things he's said that he didn't like Pat Broeker. But he and Annie
were living with LRH at the hideaway, and Marty had little if any
direct contact with them during that time.
Roger Larsson
The truth can only hurt the ones having secrets they want to keep
secret.
If Pat and Annie produced a boy and Ron Hubbard parked his body LRH
must be around 25 years old by now.
If the plan had worked LRH had given away the control to Pat and Annie
for a while but DM had an evil cross-plan and when LRH was dead he
made himself to the god-father in the syndicate.
Hartley Patterson
> But always hiding from the
> public except at staged events
It's what totalitarian leaders do Phil. The more contempt they have for
the unwashed masses, the less they want to communicate with them.
--
69 Ways to spot a Suppressive Person
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_10.htm
Monica Pignotti
This sounds to me like yet another rationalization that makes LRH the
innocent victim who could do no wrong (or just minor flaws). Whatever
Pat did or did not do, Marty is really in no position to pass judgment
like this on him, given all that Marty did in his years as a SO
member. Pat caught on and left far earlier than he did, but maybe in
his mind that means he had "missed withholds".
Really, I'm trying to have some patience for Marty and his learning
curve about LRH, which is one that most ex-Scientologists have to go
through. I have tried in the past to defend him and give him every
benefit of the doubt as relatively newly exited Scientologist (5 years
is still pretty new for someone in as deep and as long as he was), but
I really can't let this one pass without comment, that he would
condemn Pat Broeker and use this as a way to let LRH off the hook.
While I applaud Marty's courage in finally leaving, Pat did so far
sooner and from what I have read, did far less to be condemned for
than Marty has done while in the organization. It seems he wants to
blame and hold all kinds of people responsible -- anyone but LRH, that
is. I agree, Eldon, there is no real evidence, other than Marty's
unsubstantiated assertions about events that he did not directly
witness, that LRH was "held hostage" by anyone.
Monica
Monica Pignotti
> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
>
> > "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man
> > hostage for the last five years of his life."
>
>
> > I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting
> > creepier.
>
> Pat is one of the few people left that know exactly what was going on at the
> end. For Marty to DA him to all his new followers is sort of telling.
Indeed it is quite telling. I have really tried to give him the
benefit of the doubt, but he really needs to be called out for this.
Perhaps his new followers are reluctant to do so, but he needs to
understand that not everyone will accept all his unsubstantiated
assertions without question.
Astrid
Scientology true believers discuss something, is that most of them
have the same grandiose idea that Scientology is important and could
spread like wildfire and clear the planet. It is so important in THEIR
lives, and it HAS to be important in EVERYONE else's, because Hubbard
said so, and they are the living proof. How much proof is it, when
their numbers are relatively small after all these years, and having
all these fantastical "powerz."
They ignore the fact that even among the vast majority of people who
took Scientology courses, most would not even tell anyone about it
today, because they moved on to other things, and find it embarrassing
that they got caught in the scam. It is only a few percent of the
people who ever took a course, who really believe in it, and "live
it,", and it is not a coincidence that the employees of Scientology
have an absurd conception of Scientology's influence on the world.
They are fed that propaganda continually.
I know I have some weird interests that would be hard to spread to
other people, even if I wanted to, but would be impossible if they
cost a lot of money. How about TM. I reached a meditative state for
the first time when I was young, when I was reading a book about
states of consciousness and brain waves. It had one chapter on TM. I
practiced it for a few years as a way to relax, and explore what for
many can be a spiritual experience, or at least one that alters your
mind and perspective. During that time, I read a few more books on TM
specifically. I don't think I spent more than $10 on TM (I'd get the
books at the library most of the time, but I owned a few I got at
discount.) I was a student at the time, held a part-time job, and had
very little money.
I never did TM with groups or used it according to Buddhist
principles. I probably explained how it was done to a few people, but
I was not influential enough to get them into the practice.
For most people, Scientology is a secret. It is so prohibitively
expensive, or requires such a commitment, that to expect millions of
people are going to start taking courses and doing it is pure
delusion.
Even if it were free -- which in itself is delusional since
Scientology is designed as a money-making scam -- Scientology is so
involved, people wouldn't get into it, in the millions anyway.
People say Scientology is simple...but the organization will drag out
that huge chart showing how complex it is.
TM is simple, Buddhism is not.
There's no "tech" in Scientology that is as simple, and effective as
TM. How do I know this? I know this because if there were, some smart
people would have picked up on it and used it for themselves, cutting
out all the Xenu the dissemination mandate of Scientology, so that it
would help people.
Geir Isene wrote on his blog that he did a "locational" (I believe it
is called), on a drunk guy, and saved him from being beaten by some
thugs. This is magick, and quite delusional to believe that situation
couldn't have been handled or diffused in another way. For example,
just by touching the person and making it known to the group who was
thinking of taking advantage of the drunk, that you knew him and were
taking him home.
Again, it is this whole thing of Scientologists being the ONLY ones
who can help. And the tech works!
Once I talked down a patient who got in a very high state of anxiety
and was running away from the ER, down the hall. He had a doctor and a
nurse chasing after him. I had a summer job, in the medical records
department and headed toward the ER. Instead of addressing him in a
voice of alarm, or avoiding him, I smiled, said "hello" in a sweet
voice, and extended my hand to him, and led him back to the ER. I
don't even know why I did what I did. I just thought it was worth a
try, and he didn't have a weapon or anything.
So, using a little intuition, and kindness, no "tech" at all, just a
little kindness to a person who was frightened, disoriented or
confused. However, I had been a volunteer in a State Hospital the year
before, and I was used to being around people with various mental
problems.
After that incident, I had a few people coming up to me, and asking me
about it. I'd become a sort of legend for that incident. It wasn't
like I pulled a car off someone though.
When I got this guy back to the ER, they probably gave him a good shot
of thorazine, and then scheduled his lobotomy.
Hartley Patterson
Goodness. Interesting stuff there, what with Robin Scott emerging from
nowhere. For those who don't know, he was one of the team that liberated
the OT levels from ASO Denmark. One quote from him:
"I?m already thinking of hosting an international conference next year
on this subject in East Grinstead, where I have good comm lines, having
grown up nearby."
And yes, the objective does seem to be to overthrow Miscavige and they
believe that to Keep Scientology Working it needs a strong organisation,
unlike the Freezone whose leading opinion formers left the cult because
they thought too much central organisation was what made things go bad.
And of course they are dutifully searching out quotes from LRH to
justify themselves! :-)
Oh well, another nest of SPs for DM to rant about I suppose.
phil scott
I was at marty's site last evening and noticed the calibre of his
sychphants...
people who should have figured out the nature of the brainwash decades
ago but haven't. still impressed by the validity at lower levels,
and
entirely blind to the larger pathology further on.. and of course in
full
agreement with each other, full agreement, full agreement... one
certainly
would not to be outcast... or seen as having any sort of counter
intentions.
any loud pop you hear from that quarter will be their heads coming out
of
eltubbo's ass..
Re marty, I do feel for the guy.. the brainwash was total, and now
its been epoxy'd in,
i dont think we will ever see him getting a clue...and he was nasty
around the edges, maybe
i had provoked some of that with my remarks on the NG..but he'd of had
to be nasty like
that to have became what he had inside cult management.. I believe he
truly is a victim
to the core... but unfortunately a hard core perpetrator as well,
those really do need to go before
a jury.
Our courts are part of our absolutely vital immune response to
pathgens..and they are fair most of the
time.
Phil scott
phil scott
> I just read the thread on Marty's site. Something that strikes me when
> Scientology true believers discuss something, is that most of them
> have the same grandiose idea that Scientology is important and could
> spread like wildfire and clear the planet. It is so important in THEIR
> lives, and it HAS to be important in EVERYONE else's, because Hubbard
> said so, and they are the living proof. How much proof is it, when
> their numbers are relatively small after all these years, and having
> all these fantastical "powerz."
ok... Astrid...HOLD IT RAIGHT there... there are ^5^ of em.. thats
huge when
you are talking about OT's... the other ones got too powerful and
had to leave.
It only takes one of those with a rolled up paper bull horn to shut
down the whole
flub land base these days.
>
> They ignore the fact that even among the vast majority of people who
> took Scientology courses, most would not even tell anyone about it
we are down to the rock solid brainwashee's now... the fact that these
are no longer
recruiting anyone at all, especially their own familys, says it
all,,, you dont see those old sir names
in the graduation lists.
> today, because they moved on to other things, and find it embarrassing
> that they got caught in the scam. It is only a few percent of the
> people who ever took a course, who really believe in it, and "live
> it,", and it is not a coincidence that the employees of Scientology
> have an absurd conception of Scientology's influence on the world.
> They are fed that propaganda continually.
>
the cult was expanding underground for a while, but no longer imo.. in
that time frame it
was possibly expanding that way I met some very well spoken high end,
scientologists...superb
pitch, but hard to tell it was for scn at all if you didnt know the
agenda. this was 8 or 10 years ago
...they focused expertly on the cultures obvious failures etc.. then
offered with naming scn or eltubbo,
he eltubbo solutions.. doing superb reach and withdraw and in the end
hinting that i could be
invited to a meeting if i wished... i gave the guy my real name..and
never heard from him again. (age 40 or so)
These days, no matter how hot the pitch, as soon as most in the public
hear the name hubbard or scn they
head for the hills.
> > > I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Astrid
> Re marty, I do feel for the guy.. the brainwash was total, and now
> its been epoxy'd in,
Ha. That's a good one, and I think you may have a point. I got excited
when he was quoting Orwell's 1984...but then I stumbled onto something
on the web about Hubbard using 1984 as an example of "Black PR" and
obviously Marty is seeing all this through a very narrow vision,
demonizing DM for everything.
Does Marty read anything that isn't Hubbard approved?
Is it the lack of sympathy? That Scientology teaches that it is low
toned. So, Marty can't sympathize that maybe DM is a product of
Scientology. He's not the ideal product, but he is very much what you
get.
Marty also can't envision, that maybe Scientology would have fallen
apart anyway, no matter what leader, especially in the last ten years
with the internet. You can't charge $300,000 for Xenu and get away
with it.
I tried to bring an important point to Geir Isene. That is, to an
outsider, who reads the stories of Scientologists under Hubbard, vs.
Scientologists under Miscavige, there is very little difference in the
way people are used and abused by the system, or in the claims of the
people who are helped by it. Why is that?
Eldon
> On Sep 10, 5:01 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 10, 5:35 am, "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the last
> > > five years of his life."
>
> > >http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/1984-the-severe-reality-a...
>
> > > I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
>
> > I don't get how Marty ~knows~ Pat (and by implication Annie) Broeker
> > conspired with DM to "hold LRH hostage". It's obvious from other
> > things he's said that he didn't like Pat Broeker. But he and Annie
> > were living with LRH at the hideaway, and Marty had little if any
> > direct contact with them during that time.
>
> This sounds to me like yet another rationalization that makes LRH the
> innocent victim who could do no wrong (or just minor flaws). Whatever
> Pat did or did not do, Marty is really in no position to pass judgment
> like this on him, given all that Marty did in his years as a SO
> member. Pat caught on and left far earlier than he did, but maybe in
> his mind that means he had "missed withholds".
Oh, Pat didn't simply catch on. Miscavige went after him with a
vengeance, and he fled. DM then put Annie into the RPF where someone
reported that she was "broken." Apparently, Pat is still in hiding,
though Jesse Prince said he got a brief phone call. DM is quite good
at silencing people through intimidation.
>
> Really, I'm trying to have some patience for Marty and his learning
> curve about LRH, which is one that most ex-Scientologists have to go
> through. I have tried in the past to defend him and give him every
> benefit of the doubt as relatively newly exited Scientologist (5 years
> is still pretty new for someone in as deep and as long as he was), but
> I really can't let this one pass without comment, that he would
> condemn Pat Broeker and use this as a way to let LRH off the hook.
I'd say Pat was pretty hypocritical himself if he lived with the
insane old psychopath through his last ranting days, then got up on
stage and yapped about how LRH "purposely dropped his unneeded body to
do research...." Blech. However, he wasn't much involved in external
stuff as far as I know, so he didn't have to opportunity to break as
many laws overtly as Marty did.
> While I applaud Marty's courage in finally leaving, Pat did so far
> sooner and from what I have read, did far less to be condemned for
> than Marty has done while in the organization. It seems he wants to
> blame and hold all kinds of people responsible -- anyone but LRH, that
> is. I agree, Eldon, there is no real evidence, other than Marty's
> unsubstantiated assertions about events that he did not directly
> witness, that LRH was "held hostage" by anyone.
LRH may certainly have been cajoled and flattered as he was writing
that 10-volume sci-fi series in the Bluebird motor home next to the
allergenic ranch house. But I don't think DM was doing more than
deceiving him and waiting for him to die at the time.
Anyway, thanks for making me right! ;-)
-Eldon
Eldon
wrote:
> thorazineshuf...@gmail.com says:
>
>
>
> > "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the last
> > five years of his life."
>
>
> > I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
>
> Goodness. Interesting stuff there, what with Robin Scott emerging from
> nowhere. For those who don't know, he was one of the team that liberated
> the OT levels from ASO Denmark. One quote from him:
>
> "I?m already thinking of hosting an international conference next year
> on this subject in East Grinstead, where I have good comm lines, having
> grown up nearby."
What's really interesting is that he says nothing after the level of
Clear is worth zip. I to have observed that nothing above the Power
and R6EW processes (just below clear) makes any sense or has any
legitimate effect. That's about the point where LRH stopped
paraphrasing psychoanalysis, General Semantics and hypnotherapy, and
started inventing his own drug-addled, delusional bullshit.
rockyslammer
> Goodness. Interesting stuff there, what with Robin Scott emerging from
> nowhere. For those who don't know, he was one of the team that liberated
> the OT levels from ASO Denmark. One quote from him:
>
>
> believe that to Keep Scientology Working it needs a strong organisation,
> unlike the Freezone whose leading opinion formers left the cult because
> they thought too much central organisation was what made things go bad.
> And of course they are dutifully searching out quotes from LRH to
> justify themselves! :-)
>
> Oh well, another nest of SPs for DM to rant about I suppose.
Interestingly enough I know Robin quite well - and guess what? He is
living down here in New Zealand as well.
I emailed him last night and got an immediate reply.
Yes is is still very much a scientologist albeit modified. He is into
the overthrow of the cabbage man as well and the reclamation of
organised scio.
I don't know how real that would be - I bet miscavidge has the
finances sown up in his control very tightly and untraceable or
legally ungettable. We shall see.
regards
Martin
alex
> On Sep 10, 4:07 pm, Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 10, 5:01 am, Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 10, 5:35 am, "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the last
> > > > five years of his life."
>
> > > >http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/1984-the-severe-reality-a...
>
> > > > I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
>
> > > conspired with DM to "hold LRH hostage". It's obvious from other
> > > were living with LRH at the hideaway, and Marty had little if any
> > > direct contact with them during that time.
>
> > This sounds to me like yet another rationalization that makes LRH the
> > innocent victim who could do no wrong (or just minor flaws). Whatever
> > like this on him, given all that Marty did in his years as a SO
> > his mind that means he had "missed withholds".
>
> vengeance, and he fled. DM then put Annie into the RPF where someone
> though Jesse Prince said he got a brief phone call. DM is quite good
> at silencing people through intimidation.
>
>
>
> > Really, I'm trying to have some patience for Marty and his learning
> > curve about LRH, which is one that most ex-Scientologists have to go
> > through. I have tried in the past to defend him and give him every
> > benefit of the doubt as relatively newly exited Scientologist (5 years
> > is still pretty new for someone in as deep and as long as he was), but
> > I really can't let this one pass without comment, that he would
>
> I'd sayPatwas pretty hypocritical himself if he lived with the
> insane old psychopath through his last ranting days, then got up on
> stage and yapped about how LRH "purposely dropped his unneeded body to
> do research...." Blech. However, he wasn't much involved in external
> stuff as far as I know, so he didn't have to opportunity to break as
> many laws overtly as Marty did.
>
> > sooner and from what I have read, did far less to be condemned for
> > than Marty has done while in the organization. It seems he wants to
> > blame and hold all kinds of people responsible -- anyone but LRH, that
> > is. I agree, Eldon, there is no real evidence, other than Marty's
> > unsubstantiated assertions about events that he did not directly
> > witness, that LRH was "held hostage" by anyone.
>
> LRH may certainly have been cajoled and flattered as he was writing
> that 10-volume sci-fi series in the Bluebird motor home next to the
> allergenic ranch house. But I don't think DM was doing more than
> deceiving him and waiting for him to die at the time.
>
> Anyway, thanks for making me right! ;-)
>
> -Eldon
Pat Broeker "left" after failing LRH's final mission for him,
protecting the upper level research write ups LRH had given him, and
losing the only claim to power he had, those same writeups, when
Miscavaige tricked Broeker into leaving his ranch in Barstow, and a
squad of goons rushed in and seized them. This event more than
anyother may have solidified DM's power.
phil scott
> On Sep 10, 10:01 am, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > Re marty, I do feel for the guy.. the brainwash was total, and now
> > its been epoxy'd in,
>
> Ha. That's a good one, and I think you may have a point. I got excited
> when he was quoting Orwell's 1984...but then I stumbled onto something
> on the web about Hubbard using 1984 as an example of "Black PR" and
> obviously Marty is seeing all this through a very narrow vision,
> demonizing DM for everything.
>
> Does Marty read anything that isn't Hubbard approved?
apparently yes, to his credit..he says he has moved beyond scn in some
'advanced'
areas and is offering that. but remains with Hubbie dogma hard core
also...that is progress
but waiting for 15 years until he gets his head of ouf eltubbo's ass
is not going to be justice
for all those he hosed ...to death in more than a few cases.
this entire mess needs
to go to a jury fast. the more delays the more people die off, or
get too old to fight...we
are already into that stage. Each year of delay stalls justice...
it wouldnt take much more stalling
for these people who targeted and ruined so many decent people to
skate free.
On the broader issue...Marty cant ever escape what he has done, and
especially what his own
behavior has made of him.
Regarding Lil Slappy. DM... he was the primary driver of all this crap
from the start, the others
that managed to remain on board simply morphed themselves to
accomodate.
anyone with any integrity though, left the cult long before that...
so... my view is that Marty needs
to be proscecuted for his complicity, and as a driving force
regardless... something like the SS..
they were not the man with short mustache...but they were in fact
driving forces.
>
> Is it the lack of sympathy? That Scientology teaches that it is low
> toned. So, Marty can't sympathize that maybe DM is a product of
> Scientology. He's not the ideal product, but he is very much what you
> get.
Hubbards view of life itself was from the pits..so is view was colored
that way, all he
could see of empathy for others, was the maudilin sort of
attitude... he did not know empathy, or love
and never mentioned either... he was a sociopath..a narcascist... with
serious mental issues (much of it imo caused by 'lewey' bodies in this
brain.. search that on google. amyloid accumulations (would also
cause the lump on his forehead and the puffy face...and in some cases
form these lewey bodies, symptom of which is a feeling that ones body
is inhabited by other beings.
its not new science either.
>
> Marty also can't envision, that maybe Scientology would have fallen
> apart anyway, no matter what leader, especially in the last ten years
> with the internet. You can't charge $300,000 for Xenu and get away
> with it.
With the originals in charge of scn and before Hubbie went totally
nutzzz... scn was positioned
to damn near take over the world imo... expecially pre space alien
days... that began in the late 60's.. it
was the beginning of the end.
no names here...but an auzi guy arrived in hubbies camp late 50's,
early 60's and began pushing
the space opera and... importanlty the notion that one had enemies
that needed to be handled... that was the
nexus of the primary time bomb that took out scn. Prior to that
Hubbard policy called for simply ignoring those
who objected to scn and delivering the lower levels, grades, ARC
straight wire, and CCH's etc...that do work, especially without the
high prices and insane ethics (cost per hour in 1974 was 25 dollars
an hour).
if you can find the tape and a 1984 'sp/ pts detection and routing'
check sheet, tape 4 or 5 includes him in a realization that in order
to retain staff and keep people around long enough to make any
morey..., he would have to make things a lot more complex....then his
voice trailed off and he changed the subject...but early on there was
some pretty good workability...and not abuse..
.. however later in the 70's Paullette Cooper wrote her expose' and
was heavily framed with elaborate death threats against the
president... that happened as I had just been introduced to scn by a
hot babe working nights in a bar and in her junior year as a physics
major at UC Davis (very few people can cut that curriculum and for
some reason almost no women.)
>
> I tried to bring an important point to Geir Isene. That is, to an
> outsider, who reads the stories of Scientologists under Hubbard, vs.
> Scientologists under Miscavige, there is very little difference in the
> way people are used and abused by the system, or in the claims of the
> people who are helped by it. Why is that?
Policy letters... and human nature... most of us are not very bright,
and even more of us are ego centric... its a human condition..the
policy is then used to make onself right, and piss all over others...
then greed and money does the rest... and then as Hubby went
progressively more nutz, a prime driver previously mentioned, he
wrote nastier and nastier policy.. that allowed and encouraged the
ruination of others.
it is terminally corrupting, makes a person vicious.. I myself became
a real peice of nasty ass work when I was in LA running my engineering
and construction business... that took me 20 years so far to get over,
to the modest degree that I have.... Im still the entirely wrong
person to screw with, though its not obvious..... a lot of it was in
my genes though.. our male lineage is not so sweet going back
generations. I think that sort of thing culled out those types for
cult management.
what saved me among other things is that I am an engineer and I
reverse engineer things in order discover their roots and driving
algorithms (recipies you might say). I saw early the validities
and the built in errors... the dug myself out, about the dicyest thing
I ever did.. I went in deep, and came out with great difficulty.
Few ever understand the bulk of what hubbard wrote... I found in
checking many people out on courses, that virtually none could answer
'why does this process produce the result it does' type questions.
No understanding at all, drove wall to wall rote ignorance... that
Gier guy would be in the same class as well. Few have the faintest
clue on the valid aspects of scn... so what dominates is the rote
applicaton of the ruthless aspects, and ruin of anything that works.
Hubbard also truncated much of his processing to render it less
effective... he did not like people leaving patched up in a few hours,
never to be seen again.
an example of that sort of processing was developed by John Galusha
(passed away 5 or 7 years ago).. idenics, works like gang busters, not
a sci fi approach... he was Hubbies lead tech developer in the 50's...
he left when the sci fi began. Mike Goldstien delivers that in
Aurora Colorada.. it will cost you a couple of grand, and take two
weeks, at about an hour a day....probably 90% sucessful in 'getting
rid of unwanted conditions'.. permanently.. but no promises at all...
www.idenics.org or maybe .com He does mostly the non scn public
at large, very few ex scn's these days.
the good especially is simply not understood by 99% of scn's... these
will tell you, "all i need to know is that it works and what to
do'.... but lacking an understanding of why... its lame ...or worse.
... the bad and ugly these seem to relate to real well.. but the valid
aspects is over their heads...and much of it was over Hubbards head
also...he had cloned much of what he had from others... including left
hand path satanists... a nasty ass ego centric agenda. (not related
to xianity in this aspect... just ruinously egocentric advocating the
destruction of others for darkly selfish reasons..the real 'dark side'
you coulld say.. thats not publicized at the lower ranges of the OTO
or ordinary satanism. ..but is the top stage satanic agenda and also
the OTO's upper most levels where one moves out on his own to found
his own cult. (none of this easy to find, most in these organizations
have no clue thats the top level...like scns who don't know about
xenu..etc.)
It is also the case that the entire occult scene is wall to wall nut
cases.. like Madam Blavasky (spiritualism) mentor to Crowley, Hubbard
spun from both (along with many in the third reich).... these people
were mostly nuttier than fruitcakes, adorned with some nice bits
shinny frooot. an nuts.
banana bits...... holly..................... raisins.
Phil scott
phil scott
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
thats about right imo.... although L-12 blew my socks off, and I
understood those issues... none of that
sci fi or BT related either. a combo of a smart auditor and some
luck and other factors no doubt... not so many do well on the L's...
I could see easlity that L-11 would drive a person nutz by the nature
of it... I knew more than a few that are off the edge because of doing
that level... and most didnt do well on L-12 either... but for me it
was a total killer...did it change my life long term.. maybe at the 2%
level.. not so bad imo. There were great efforts to cut the balls
off of any workable process in those days...for instance 'exchange by
dynamics' no so bad, but can fragment a person.. whatever... but the
flag land base wanted be to attest to completion without running the
8th dynamic.
if forced the issue... after running the 8th dynamic the fraudulent
aspects of scn came totally clear(tm) to me. I got out.
Phil Scott
Skipper
<08e34171-00be-4b1c...@y36g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
alex <alexr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pat Broeker "left" after failing LRH's final mission for him,
> protecting the upper level research write ups LRH had given him, and
> losing the only claim to power he had, those same writeups, when
> Miscavaige tricked Broeker into leaving his ranch in Barstow, and a
> squad of goons rushed in and seized them. This event more than
> anyother may have solidified DM's power.
That's the ONLY way the dwarf pulled it off, other than knowing where
all the money was, having put it there as a courier.
barbz
You're blaming Broeker for DM's coup?
Nice....
--
xenubarb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne
A walk down the path of history is crunchy with the crispy corpses of
those who pooh-poohed or ignored the clown car of ridicule when it
pulled-up to the curb.
Stephen Jones
t_shuffle
"barbz" <xenu...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:lDhqm.163378$cf6....@newsfe16.iad
Nah, I think he's blaming DM.
Astrid
> Pat Broeker "left" after failing LRH's final mission for him,
> protecting the upper level research write ups LRH had given him, and
> losing the only claim to power he had, those same writeups, when
> Miscavaige tricked Broeker into leaving his ranch in Barstow, and a
> squad of goons rushed in and seized them. This event more than
> anyother may have solidified DM's power.
And by "research" you mean....OT levels or "perceptics?"
I have this problem of thinking in terms of anything Hubbard wrote in
his declining years as "research." Or other years for that matter. I
thought he was living out-a-ways in a Bluebird motor home. Did he have
a lab or get books from a university library or something?
I guess it is the kind of research like in the recording I heard
recently, where he was laughing at the idea of Einstein for being so
limited as to think you couldn't travel faster than light, since he
took faster-than-photon trips on a regular basis. Research trips
probably...
t_shuffle
"Astrid" <Astrid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6d3ac382-88e8-4919...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com
Yeah, but I think you're missing the point. What Pat knows, and why Marty
wants him seen by his flock as an enemy is sort of what we're talking about
here.
Android Cat
> Pat Broeker "left" after failing LRH's final mission for him,
> protecting the upper level research write ups LRH had given him, and
> losing the only claim to power he had, those same writeups, when
> Miscavaige tricked Broeker into leaving his ranch in Barstow, and a
> squad of goons rushed in and seized them. This event more than
> anyother may have solidified DM's power.
If looked at from the "Marty wants to be the Bossa Nova of Scientology"
speculative point of view: in some future fight to be the new queen of the
hive, it's always best to get your stings in early.
Assuming that Davey was out of picture (dead, stroke, in a deep prison cell,
etc) and couldn't contest a takeover or use his CST escape pod (taking the
copyrights, trademarks and special funds with him).
And also assuming that Davey has no firmly established line of succession
and has strangled or driven out any possible rivials inside Scientology who
might step into the power vacuum of sudden Davey-less Scientology.
In that case, anyone who can gather the support of power groups inside
Scientology can sell a de-facto rationalization for a takeover to the
membership and make it stick. The wog world is going to tend to go with the
organizational continuity.
One such rationalization would be "Davey's takeover was unauthorized in the
first place, let's rewind to More Goodness, Less beatings with Marty as
Loyal Defender of the Tech, Hip-hip-hooray!"
However, if Stalinist Davey is as-is'd back to Hubbard's death, up pops
Trotsky Pat Broeker when the icepick of the cancelation of Flag Order 3879
is itself cancelled.
http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/FO3879%20cancelled.gif
http://www.xenu-directory.net/topics/hubbardsdeath.html
/===
SEA ORGANIZATION
FLAG ORDER 3879
19 January 1986
_THE SEA ORG & THE FUTURE_
I, LRH, Commodore, am hereby assuming the rank of ADMIRAL.
The rank of COMMODORE IS RETIRED FROM ACTIVE SERVICE in the Sea Organization
at this time. As we move on up the track the Commodore rank will be
reinstated as will be needed.
A new rank of LOYAL OFFICER is created directly above the rank of Captain.
Pat Broeker is hereby promoted to the first LOYAL OFFICER rank.
Annie Broeker is hereby promoted as the second LOYAL OFFICER.
There are several Sea Org Officers they will want to promote.
The SEA ORGANIZATION will always be the Sea Organization, no matter that we
may leave the surface of this planet when we're finished and operate on
others (hopefully not too many devoid of seas - joke) and no matter what we
will operate, in general, throughout the universe - solid, liquid, gaseous,
and yes, - there are other states of matter, which are ours for the taking
because nobody else seems to know about them.
I'll be scouting the way and doing the first port survey missions. I expect
your continuing backup. You've got a little under a billion left on your
current hitch, and it is hoped you will sign up again - veterans are
valuable!
So, there it is. You know what to do. You know how to do it. Hold the form
of the S.O.! You've got the watch!!
I will be in comm.
We will meet again later.
L. RON HUBBARD
ADMIRAL
\===
As an in-and-out part of Davey's command staff, Marty was part of the
paranoid Broeker-watching over the years, and perhaps he has some reason to
worry that Pat Broeker might want to return, to play a part in the
post-nuclear-Davey world of mutant Scientology.
If Marty wanted to sell himself to the membership as the Loyal Defender of
the Tech, he'd be *way* behind the *Hubbard-appointed* Loyal Officer #1.
(In fairness to Marty, there's no proof that he intends to be the Bossa
Nova. Without OTPowerz, intent is hard to judge.)
--
Ron of that ilk.
I expect that Davey will choke on a pretzel^W fishbone in a totally innocent
and fatal manner at just the right time.
Astrid
kind of like the Shoah project to get Holocaust survivors to tell
their stories on video, before their dead and forgotten, so the
revisionists can't deny that these people exist, and what they
endured.
Of course, in Scientology, it just has to do with piecing the history
together, with enough people corroborating details, especially now
that some of the pressure is off.
With Scientology, because of the shady things that went on, it is
imperative for people who any small part in some abuse, criminal
activity, or deception, to get it written down, even if they don't
want to submit it before Miscavige is safely out of the picture.
People like Rathbun and Rinder...they know a hundred times as much as
public scilons.
> On the broader issue...Marty cant ever escape what he has done, and
> especially what his own
> behavior has made of him.
>
> Regarding Lil Slappy. DM... he was the primary driver of all this crap
> from the start, the others
> that managed to remain on board simply morphed themselves to
> accomodate.
>
That's part of totalitarianism. People start following orders, without
even thinking. Once you get used to doing something, and are convinced
it is for the greatest number of dynamics, it becomes standard, the
longer it goes on. People even forget what they were like, before they
were saving the planet.
> anyone with any integrity though, left the cult long before that...
> so... my view is that Marty needs
> to be proscecuted for his complicity, and as a driving force
> regardless... something like the SS..
> they were not the man with short mustache...but they were in fact
> driving forces.
>
Some of the SS were kind of victims too, like they may have been
pressured into joining, or had a very limited perception of what was
going on when they first signed up...one thing that is very different
with Scientology, perhaps because of the extremes of the end result,
is the few in the SS ever expressed regret, guilt or sorrow what they
were a part of. At least many ex-Scientologists do.
> >
> > Is it the lack of sympathy? That Scientology teaches that it is low
> > toned. So, Marty can't sympathize that maybe DM is a product of
> > Scientology. He's not the ideal product, but he is very much what you
> > get.
>
> Hubbards view of life itself was from the pits..so is view was colored
> that way, all he
> could see of empathy for others, was the maudilin sort of
> attitude... he did not know empathy, or love
> and never mentioned either...
I always found "love" very appealing as a central theme of
Christianity.
When I read that the central tenant of Scientology, was survival,
well, Darwin did that, and I appreciate his take on it, but
SPIRITUALLY, I find "survival" to be something we do naturally, not
something that needs to be enhanced by our intention, dwelt upon, or
trained. All that "survival" stuff of Hubbard's strikes me as "HOW TO
MANIPULATE OTHERS"
he was a sociopath..a narcascist... with
> serious mental issues (much of it imo caused by 'lewey' bodies in this
> brain.. search that on google. amyloid accumulations (would also
> cause the lump on his forehead and the puffy face...and in some cases
> form these lewey bodies, symptom of which is a feeling that ones body
> is inhabited by other beings.
>
> its not new science either.
>
I think it is "Lewy" bodies. Usually people have some parkinsonism
with that. Did Hubbard have any tremor in old age?
>
> > Marty also can't envision, that maybe Scientology would have fallen
> > apart anyway, no matter what leader, especially in the last ten years
> > with the internet. You can't charge $300,000 for Xenu and get away
> > with it.
>
> With the originals in charge of scn and before Hubbie went totally
> nutzzz... scn was positioned
> to damn near take over the world imo... expecially pre space alien
> days... that began in the late 60's.. it
> was the beginning of the end.
>
He should have started the space alien thing earlier. UFOs and aliens
were very big in the early to mid 60's.
> no names here...but an auzi guy arrived in hubbies camp late 50's,
> early 60's and began pushing
> the space opera and... importanlty the notion that one had enemies
> that needed to be handled... that was the
> nexus of the primary time bomb that took out scn. Prior to that
> Hubbard policy called for simply ignoring those
> who objected to scn and delivering the lower levels, grades, ARC
> straight wire, and CCH's etc...that do work, especially without the
> high prices and insane ethics (cost per hour in 1974 was 25 dollars
> an hour).
Gee Phil, I thought Fair Game really sprung out of Hubbard's
increasing paranoia. He did treat a few of his wives and business
associates terribly. So, long before Fair Game, he was denouncing
people as Nazis or Commies, just to clear his path to whatever he
wanted. I agree though. Making that a written policy was a HUGE
mistake, and something that no Scientologist can justify as being
right.
>
> if you can find the tape and a 1984 'sp/ pts detection and routing'
> check sheet, tape 4 or 5 includes him in a realization that in order
> to retain staff and keep people around long enough to make any
> morey..., he would have to make things a lot more complex....then his
> voice trailed off and he changed the subject...but early on there was
> some pretty good workability...and not abuse..
>
> .. however later in the 70's Paullette Cooper wrote her expose' and
> was heavily framed with elaborate death threats against the
> president... that happened as I had just been introduced to scn by a
> hot babe working nights in a bar and in her junior year as a physics
> major at UC Davis (very few people can cut that curriculum and for
> some reason almost no women.)
>
> > I tried to bring an important point to Geir Isene. That is, to an
> > outsider, who reads the stories of Scientologists under Hubbard, vs.
> > Scientologists under Miscavige, there is very little difference in the
> > way people are used and abused by the system, or in the claims of the
> > people who are helped by it. Why is that?
>
> Policy letters... and human nature... most of us are not very bright,
> and even more of us are ego centric... its a human condition..the
> policy is then used to make onself right, and piss all over others...
> then greed and money does the rest... and then as Hubby went
> progressively more nutz, a prime driver previously mentioned, he
> wrote nastier and nastier policy.. that allowed and encouraged the
> ruination of others.
>
About the greed and money part. Reading about what some very lowly
paid people did in promotion and other aspects, I just kept thinking
how much more money they could have made doing that in the private
sector.
> it is terminally corrupting, makes a person vicious.. I myself became
> a real peice of nasty ass work when I was in LA running my engineering
> and construction business... that took me 20 years so far to get over,
> to the modest degree that I have.... Im still the entirely wrong
> person to screw with, though its not obvious..... a lot of it was in
> my genes though.. our male lineage is not so sweet going back
> generations. I think that sort of thing culled out those types for
> cult management.
>
> what saved me among other things is that I am an engineer and I
> reverse engineer things in order discover their roots and driving
> algorithms (recipies you might say). I saw early the validities
> and the built in errors... the dug myself out, about the dicyest thing
> I ever did.. I went in deep, and came out with great difficulty.
>
I guess it is easier to reason yourself into things, or just slide
along into things, than get out, since it is so humbling to admit to
error and stupidity, as well as greed or desire to be powerful. I
think you are being honest there. Most scilons will only admit to some
kind of noble purpose, about wanting to help others, or free
themselves from things that were making them unhappy, not that that
isn't a motivation to.
I'd like to see Marty write something like this:
"At one point I felt like I was flying high, dizzy with power, only a
step away from being the most important person in a group that was
saving the planet, just waiting for DM to hit someone too hard, make
them lose an eye or something, so they could haul him off and I could
step into the top spot. Me, a college dropout..."
Plus, the system of Scientology gives people the illusion they can
keep correcting themselves, repairing themselves, to get back on
track.
> Few ever understand the bulk of what hubbard wrote... I found in
> checking many people out on courses, that virtually none could answer
> 'why does this process produce the result it does' type questions.
> No understanding at all, drove wall to wall rote ignorance... that
> Gier guy would be in the same class as well. Few have the faintest
> clue on the valid aspects of scn... so what dominates is the rote
> applicaton of the ruthless aspects, and ruin of anything that works.
>
With Geir, it wasn't so much the "how it works" that annoys me, but
the idea that these people can't conceive of something else, that
could have helped them overcome their shyness or whatever.
> Hubbard also truncated much of his processing to render it less
> effective... he did not like people leaving patched up in a few hours,
> never to be seen again.
That boggles the mind. That some were having fun, pretty much got
through a few major traumas in their life and felt some relief about
it, and then Scientology can't let them go, so has to probe into their
lives on other planets or think up ridiculous complications. Like,
make them believe they are failures if they can't cough up large
amounts of money, for donations or courses.
>
> an example of that sort of processing was developed by John Galusha
> (passed away 5 or 7 years ago).. idenics, works like gang busters, not
> a sci fi approach... he was Hubbies lead tech developer in the 50's...
> he left when the sci fi began. Mike Goldstien delivers that in
> Aurora Colorada.. it will cost you a couple of grand, and take two
> weeks, at about an hour a day....probably 90% sucessful in 'getting
> rid of unwanted conditions'.. permanently.. but no promises at all...www.idenics.org or maybe .com He does mostly the non scn public
> at large, very few ex scn's these days.
I'll check into that when I have more time. So, what percentage of
Scientology would you attribute to Hubbard alone, and what percentage
to these other people?
>
> the good especially is simply not understood by 99% of scn's... these
> will tell you, "all i need to know is that it works and what to
> do'.... but lacking an understanding of why... its lame ...or worse.
>
> ... the bad and ugly these seem to relate to real well.. but the valid
> aspects is over their heads...and much of it was over Hubbards head
> also...he had cloned much of what he had from others... including left
> hand path satanists... a nasty ass ego centric agenda. (not related
> to xianity in this aspect... just ruinously egocentric advocating the
> destruction of others for darkly selfish reasons..the real 'dark side'
> you coulld say.. thats not publicized at the lower ranges of the OTO
> or ordinary satanism. ..but is the top stage satanic agenda and also
> the OTO's upper most levels where one moves out on his own to found
> his own cult. (none of this easy to find, most in these organizations
> have no clue thats the top level...like scns who don't know about
> xenu..etc.)
>
> It is also the case that the entire occult scene is wall to wall nut
> cases.. like Madam Blavasky (spiritualism) mentor to Crowley, Hubbard
> spun from both (along with many in the third reich).... these people
> were mostly nuttier than fruitcakes, adorned with some nice bits
> shinny frooot. an nuts.
Frankly, Hubbard's Satanic studies, totally creep me out. A friend of
mine once bought the "Satanic Bible" for a dollar at a used book
store. We laughed about it, but frankly, I didn't even want to read a
page of it. I don't think she read much of it either. I had no
aspiration to study to be the Anti-Christ.
That brings me to something though. Some Christians aspire to be
Christ-like. Why would anyone like to be like Hubbard, except for the
wealth and power part. One son killed himself. Another rejected him
and his baloney, and two wives couldn't put up with him.
For me, Hubbard had less charisma than Charles Manson, and if I had
Hubbard for a professor in college, I would have dropped the course.
How much were you around Hubbard Phil?
Who is the ex-Scilon, who writes on the web, who spent the most time
around Hubbard. Would it be Gerry?
>
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for over 11 years!
> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the last
> five years of his life."
>
> http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/1984-the-severe-reality-a...
>
> I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
Pat and Frannie were friends of mine, I took over Pubs US (now New
Era Publications)from him, we worked out of the same office at 811
Beacon St. When he went to Flag for the Staff Banking Officer job, I
bought his old 68 VW Bus from him, I still have the license plate on
the wall, Calif 824 HXR, Both Pat and Frannie were honest, caring,
ethical, pure, true believers. and he had good self control, Pat even
had a sense of humor, and IMO he was not a sociopath. See
http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/hubbard2percentrule.htm
Roger Larsson
Was the issue "Victory" also cancelled?
"There's something called "The certainty of the proud performence" and
may the owner of the title give other OTs an acknowledgement of having
a value somewhere else than in their assholes"
Hartley Patterson
> And also assuming that Davey has no firmly established line of
succession
> and has strangled or driven out any possible rivials inside Scientology who
> might step into the power vacuum of sudden Davey-less Scientology.
Obviously one of DM's skills from the start was his ability to crush
internal dissent. Like Stalin however he is now experiencing the
downside to this - he has the Enemy at the Gates and few competent loyal
officers (!) with which to fight them off.
The CoS is showing the classic signs of being in a pre-revolutionary
state. I claim no cigar for that, it is historically easy to see from
the outside. How things progress from here however is impossible to say,
so non-exmember Old Guard like us can happily buy our lottery tickets
and popcorn, switch on the Internet and watch the show.
--
FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
Religious Technology Center
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
Eldon
wrote:
> androidca...@hotmail.com says:
>
>
>
> > And also assuming that Davey has no firmly established line of
> succession
> > and has strangled or driven out any possible rivials inside Scientology who
> > might step into the power vacuum of sudden Davey-less Scientology.
>
> Obviously one of DM's skills from the start was his ability to crush
> internal dissent. Like Stalin however he is now experiencing the
> downside to this - he has the Enemy at the Gates and few competent loyal
> officers (!) with which to fight them off.
>
> The CoS is showing the classic signs of being in a pre-revolutionary
> state. I claim no cigar for that, it is historically easy to see from
> the outside. How things progress from here however is impossible to say,
> so non-exmember Old Guard like us can happily buy our lottery tickets
> and popcorn, switch on the Internet and watch the show.
Maybe if we're lucky, DM will commit suicide in the same bunker
(electrical vault) where Moxon's daughter died trying to save a
squirrel. Maybe if we're exceedingly lucky, Moxon will join him.
xenufrance
"t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de news:
gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com...
> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the
> last five years of his life."
>
>
> I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
certainly, as long as he does not say the truth, all the truth, like where
are the secret docs incriminating hmself and the dwarf...
r
>
>
>
Astrid
> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> gpSdnQO4Gc987jXXnZ2dnUVZ_tWdn...@giganews.com...
>
> > "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man hostage for the
> > last five years of his life."
>
>
> > I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting creepier.
>
> certainly, as long as he does not say the truth, all the truth, like where
> are the secret docs incriminating hmself and the dwarf...
>
specifics, because he was so close to Miscavige, he implicates himself
and others, they he and others kept those secrets for Miscavige.
For example, in his recent post, about the millions in excess for the
Super Power building, it is a pretty good post, but he has to keep it
fairly general, except he pulls a figure out of who knows where, not
talking about if he knows where this money is kept. (Of course,
someone he trusts could have just told him, and asked not to be
named.)
If Miscavige couldn't resist dropping stories and jokes about
Travolta's auditing sessions, you can be sure he told Marty a lot, for
a while. Yet Marty is acting coy about it, in the way of Mike Rinder
when he insinuated that the only lie he told as CoS spokesperson, was
that Miscavige doesn't beat people.
Voltaire's Child
"t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:doCdnXR8sdl8HDXX...@giganews.com...
>
>
> "t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
>> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man
>> hostage for the last five years of his life."
>>
>>
>> I love what Marty is doing, but he just keeps getting
>> creepier.
>
> the end. For Marty to DA him to all his new followers is sort of telling.
power grab after Hubbard's death. They lied to Scientologists about Hubbard
and his death and his intentions.
C
t_shuffle
"Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in
message
news:9rWdne5tYZ5chDbX...@posted.internetamerica
Maybe so, and maybe they had to. Who knows? Are you privy to any details of
the attempted (attempted, lolwat) power grab that the rest of us are not?
I mean, what the fuck could anyone in that position say? The truth? "The
founder has finally died, and he was screaming bloody murder about smells
and body thetans when he passed."?
Voltaire's Child
You're quite right in that I'm speculating and extrapolating. But nobody
made them start a coup and try to take over the church, as far as I know...
C
t_shuffle
"Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in
message
news:LNGdnbs3bKqBsDbX...@posted.internetamerica
Made who start a coup? Who is them?
t_shuffle
"t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:voidnQGQX71YszbX...@giganews.com
You're not falling under Marty's spell, are you?
Voltaire's Child
The Broekers. Didn't they try to take over? Wasn't it of their own free
will?
C
Voltaire's Child
He sent me a message saying "you are getting sleeeepy...you are in my
power..."
(kidding)
C
t_shuffle
"Hartley Patterson" <hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
in message
news:MPG.251482cef...@news.thundernews.com
> androi...@hotmail.com says:
>
>> And also assuming that Davey has no firmly established
>> line of
> succession
>> and has strangled or driven out any possible rivials
>> inside Scientology who might step into the power vacuum
>> of sudden Davey-less Scientology.
>
> Obviously one of DM's skills from the start was his
> ability to crush internal dissent. Like Stalin however he
> is now experiencing the downside to this - he has the
> Enemy at the Gates and few competent loyal officers (!)
> with which to fight them off.
>
> The CoS is showing the classic signs of being in a
> pre-revolutionary state. I claim no cigar for that, it is
> historically easy to see from the outside. How things
> progress from here however is impossible to say, so
> non-exmember Old Guard like us can happily buy our
> lottery tickets and popcorn, switch on the Internet and
> watch the show.
It makes for some good Internet.
t_shuffle
"Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in
message
news:b5qdneU2btt7rDbX...@posted.internetamerica
I wasn't there, but weren't they named Loyal Officers?
Voltaire's Child
Why, yes. They named themselves Loyal Officers.
C
Android Cat
> "t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MeadnZYvCtEnrzbX...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltair...@ymail.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:b5qdneU2btt7rDbX...@posted.internetamerica
>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:voidnQGQX71YszbX...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> The Broekers. Didn't they try to take over? Wasn't it of
>>> their own free will?
>>
>
> Why, yes. They named themselves Loyal Officers.
Really? Who said that?
Roger Larsson
wrote:
> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:MeadnZYvCtEnrzbX...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> > message
> >news:b5qdneU2btt7rDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:voidnQGQX71YszbX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> >>> message
> >>>news:LNGdnbs3bKqBsDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>>>> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> >>>>> message
> >>>>>news:9rWdne5tYZ5chDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >>>>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>news:doCdnXR8sdl8HDXX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>>>>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>>>>> message
> >>>>>>>news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
> >>>>>>>> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old
> >>>>>>>> Man hostage for the last five years of his life."
>
See it from Pat and Annies point of view.
SEA ORGANIZATION
FLAG ORDER 3879
19 January 1986
_THE SEA ORG & THE FUTURE_
I, LRH, Commodore asshole, am hereby assuming the rank of ADMIRAL
asshole.
The rank of COMMODORE asshole IS RETIRED FROM ACTIVE SERVICE in the
Sea Organization
at this time. As we move on up the track the Commodore rank will be
reinstated as will be needed.
A new rank of LOYAL OFFICER is created directly above the rank of
Captain asshole.
Pat Broeker is hereby promoted to the first LOYAL OFFICER rank.
Annie Broeker is hereby promoted as the second LOYAL OFFICER.
There are several Sea Org Officers assholes they will want to promote.
The SEA ORGANIZATION will always be the Sea Organization, no matter
that we
may leave the surface of this planet when we're finished and operate
on
others (hopefully not too many devoid of seas - joke) and no matter
what we
will operate, in general, throughout the universe - solid, liquid,
gaseous,
and yes, - there are other states of matter, which are ours for the
taking
because nobody else seems to know about them.
I'll be scouting the way and doing the first port survey missions. I
expect
your continuing backup. You've got a little under a billion left on
your
current hitch, and it is hoped you will sign up again - veterans are
valuable!
So, there it is. You know what to do. You know how to do it. Hold the
form
of the S.O.! You've got the watch!!
I will be in comm.
We will meet again later.
L. RON HUBBARD
ADMIRAL asshole
t_shuffle
"Android Cat" <androi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f77a$4aab44f0$43e685e9$12...@PRIMUS.CA
Yeah! I'm dying to know.
barbz
If you knew your Scientology history, you'd know that the Broekers were
tagged by Hubbard to carry on in his place.
DM was the usurper. He threw the Broekers into the RPF. Pat B. escaped.
Poor Annie was crushed and her spirit broken. Nobody knows where Pat is
these days. Annie is probably still at Gold Base. Once in a while, Pat
will surface to contact friends before vanishing again.
barbz
You're glib. You don't know the history of Scientology, I do.
(couldn't resist, sry)
rhill
> If you knew your Scientology history, you'd know that the Broekers were
> tagged by Hubbard to carry on in his place.
>
> DM was the usurper. He threw the Broekers into the RPF. Pat B. escaped.
> Poor Annie was crushed and her spirit broken. Nobody knows where Pat is
> these days. Annie is probably still at Gold Base. Once in a while, Pat
> will surface to contact friends before vanishing again.
DM was the usurper, but it's not too convincing that Hubbard named the
Broekers to take over either. Unless there are more which I am not
aware, Flag 3879 dated 19 January 1986, *five* days before his death is
not very convincing, the same way Hubbard's new will *one* day before
his death is not very convincing. Eugene Denk said Hubbard "had suffered
a brain hemorrhage several days before his death" (ref.:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/news/images/thecompiler-1986a-3.pdf#page=1 )
That's the way Hubbard designed Scientology -- winner take all, and it
is expected that top management will engage in dirty tricks with each
others as well (not just evil SPs) until one prevail.
--
Ray.
phil scott
not at all... I know him to the level I do from reverse engineering is
crap...and also
from developing my own strategies to save my own ass..which worked
about 90%,, and that
was serious advance see the BM scripts robo posted to ACT. but 90%
recovery from
scn is something like 90% recovery from being run over by a bunch of
trucks...it was idenics
that took me to maybe 95%.. that was vital... then the ARSCCwdne, time
and picketing and putting
all that into words for 15 years now that have brought what I think is
100% recovery,,,,, however
I know better than that,,,, a few years from now I will look back see
see what I cant now.
One never recovers from any experience.. he just gets beyond it,
learns sometimes, but that water
once under the bridge never dissapears,. I am limitlessly and
utterly grateful however to L Ron Hubbard,
and his limitlessly poisonous insanity and his skill in implanting it,
and in founding the ruthlessly criminal cult,
I truly truly am... it is like this..... my type seeks to get the
core of all things, and for that there has to be something challenging
(and apparently damaging) to get to the core of, and discover its
mechanisms... without scn Id be just another ego centric prig in the
engineering business... a fate imo, entirely worse than death,
as it stands today, Ive learned somethings about life and existence
beyond all human measure.
second in my BM scripts series (Beyond the Black Magicians) lists
sources of what I call thin golden threads amongst the dross,,, each
by itself insuffickent but together forming what I call a golden
rope,,, a way to haul your ass out of der pits...
those are:
Hubbards Data Series One (but nothing else) especially not the rest
of his data series.
Hubbards L-12 but only as delivered to me, it appears not to have been
delivered that way to others
from what I read of their reports... a note was passed to my auditor
on that, she looked surprised and said
this is a note from LRH and a list I am to run on you... no one else
has ever gotten this. I was not sci fi related
it was related directly in many aspects to research you see described
in 'the secret life of plants' by Tomkins 1972.. of great value to
me, but for anyone even a bit tweeky... would take them entirely off
the edge. So I do not
know the real motive, but I remain grateful. and I recommend
Hubbards CCH's but those can be run by idiots to ruin a person and
most times does I think..etc.
the bulk of my list I consider senior:
Bagwan Shree Rajneesh.. The Psychology of the Esoteric... ground
breaking and debugs the primary destructive core of the Indian notion
of 'going inside'...with valuable drills that I found by themselves an
indespensible aspect what ive since discovered.... but none of the
rest of what the guy wrote, he seems to have gone totally nutz..
leaving me wondering what was up with his first book.
my battery is dying I have to go
others were Carlos Casteda, took me 20 years to read 5 books and
fathom mile stone by milestone leaving me
stunned into breathlessness at times for weeks.
thw words of Jesus of nazareth.. not anything else from that quarter,
he could not have said what he said had he not been across that
threshold. same with Lao Tsu,,, see my profile for that quote
Phil scott
Astrid
determined the person with the most super powerz should lead
Scientology. And no, "short" is not a super power.
This is just my guess, but I suspect Hubbard was so out of his gourd
in the last six years, he didn't care or know who would succeed him.
Just reviewed the last pages of Bare-Faced...it seems he thought he
would succeed himself. Hmmm, eight more years for Suri Cruise to come
of age? Has she started smoking yet, ranting about "the evil psychs"
or shown any signs of Messiah potential?
The man already travelled through time and space, why should death
stop him while there was still money to be made, I mean a planet to be
cleared.
From Bare Faced:
"At a press conference later that day, it was revealed that Hubbard
had made a will on the day before his death leaving the bulk of his
fortune, 'tens of millions of dollars', to the church. Generous
provision had been made, it was said, for his wife and 'certain of his
children'. Nibs, predictably, got nothing. Nor did Alexis, the
daughter he denied was his."
Hubbard probably left all of it to Xenu, for all we know, but who was
there on this "day before his death" anyway? Does anyone know?
In his last years he was writing letters to DO (David Mayo) that were
full of batshit insane (I mean even a Scientologist considered them to
be nuts.)
All-in-all, whatever DM did, I think he did a remarkable job at
keeping afloat what should have been a sunken ship.
So, the Broekers never spilled the beans to anyone that later left the
cult, and told all?
My guess is the L. Ron's talk to them, was more about BTs, the psychs
on Korklon B (not this galaxy, but the one next door) and they just
didn't know what the f to do, it was such unflattering stuff. They
just wanted to remember him as he was, in his white uniform, as a
picture on the wall.
Feeling all weak and weird, with Ron Jr. testifying etc., they just
let Miscavige run with it, for the good of Sciloontology, or the
greater good, for the greatest number of helical valences, or
whatever.
The Broekers were busy being kind to senile L. Ron, shielding the
membership from the true deterioration of his mind. DM pretended to go
along with this, all the time making sure he knew out how to get the
secret "research" so he could rule the world. As a messenger he was
used to barking orders, and he was naturally bossy anyway.
Since Ron didn't leave behind specific instructions through an
attorney, about who would take over...you would think that with all
the policy crap that was in writing, and the 35 million words of L.
Ron, formulating some kind of documents about how the church was to be
run, would have been taken up by a Scientology committee if L. Ron
weren't doing it.
Is it possible many members at the time, thought that L. Ron was
immortal, and they wouldn't have to deal with this eventuality? After
all, he healed himself from blindness. Why not cure himself from
batshit insane or death?
Or spontaneously reincarnate into the midget, using the special
transfer station the Blootons left on Mars a jillion years ago.
That's it! David Miscavige is L. Ron Hubbard. Doesn't Scientology know
this? How could they not? They are such authorities on the mind, and
have so many answers.
In conclusion, Scientology and Scientologists have Scientology and LRH
to thank, for getting DM. They didn't want to deal with the reality of
L. Ron's incompetence at the time. The idea that such a high level BT-
free person could be senile in old age, was unthinkable, something you
could be thrown in the RPF for even mentioning.
Astrid
Robert V. Young on Hubbard's last days and the DM coup
Jesse Prince's old post on it
Another article about Hubbard's last days
As far as Marty saying Pat and DM held LRH "hostage" in his last
days... I disagree with that.
Wasn't LRH hiding out, rather, having left the role of active (in the
flesh) leader years earlier?
When LRH died, I see five reasons DM won out over Pat and Annie:
1. Pat was an alcoholic, deeply shaken by LRH's death whereas DM was
energized by it, chomping at the bit to take over.
2. Pat and DM had drank and gambled some of the money that was going
to LRH, in Las Vegas. DM was the money transport messenger. DM was
willing to destroy Pat with that info, even though he would be
implicated himself, or maybe he had a way that it was just straight
blackmail.
3. DM had been active, in arranging attorneys, in the fight over LRH's
estate by LRH's son Nibb. So, while they were successful in getting
most of the estate going to Scientology, Pat was afraid DM would use
these attorneys against Pat or have him thrown in the RPF, where Annie
ended up later anyway.
4. Young talked to Pat on the phone a year after LRH's death and he
seemed happy...maybe he never wanted to be cult leader anyway.
5. Pat (and Annie) had the daily control over LRH, and even though LRH
issued that LO1 (Loyal Officer 1) and LO2 policy for them to become
leaders, which DM cancelled, Pat was probably afraid that DM would
accuse them (Pat and Annie) of manipulating LRH, in his senile years,
into that policy.
(6.) I didn't read anything about DM getting the "research" but that
probably came out in the process or DM intimidating Pat, or possibly
just sweeping in when Pat was drunk as a skunk and upset about the
Messiah's demise, or before.
LRH was suspicious of DM, according to Young, but in the end he was
also far gone. This, from Jesse Prince:
==================
In truth, DM was not the only one who knew that LRH was an old man
past his prime, with no real "new ideas" or "brilliant revelations"
for quite some time. All he could do was say the same thing, over and
over: "There are more BTs! Many more than people realize!" Hubbard
really was a bit senile at the end there - his brain pretty well fried
by a wide range of drugs which he used for his "research" -- and this
scared the hell out of his top messengers and others near him.
==================
So, Pat and DM holding LRH hostage? Hardly. It wasn't like they could
invite a bunch of execs to Creston for Hubbard to hold a meeting and
decide how Scientology should be run. I think both the Broekers and DM
were more or less following LRH's wishes, to remain in seclusion.
Bringing in a demented LRH (who apparently didn't want his
fingernails, toenails, or hair cut) before some large gathering of
Scientologists would have been totally mind blowing for the zombies.
Voltaire's Child
"barbz" <xenu...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:XUOqm.169641$cf6.1...@newsfe16.iad...
I do know the history. You know what I really know?
That they ~said~ they were tagged by Hubbard. Maybe he did, at that.
But they were still lying sacks of shit.
>
> DM was the usurper. He threw the Broekers into the RPF. Pat B. escaped.
> Poor Annie was crushed and her spirit broken. Nobody knows where Pat is
> these days. Annie is probably still at Gold Base. Once in a while, Pat
> will surface to contact friends before vanishing again.
It was a power struggle among a bunch of highly unprincipled people.
I don't feel sorry for the Broekers. They wouldn't have been any better than
DM. Just dumber.
C
Voltaire's Child
The video where they came out and announced themselves as loyal officers.
C
rhill
>
> I do know the history. You know what I really know?
>
> That they ~said~ they were tagged by Hubbard. Maybe he did, at that.
> But they were still lying sacks of shit.
I wonder... Since Hubbard is a proven liar, did you ever refer to
Hubbard as a "lying sack of shit"?
--
Ray.
Eldon
wrote:
> "barbz" <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> news:XUOqm.169641$cf6.1...@newsfe16.iad...
>
>
>
> > Voltaire's Child wrote:
>
> >>news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> >>> message
> >>>news:9rWdne5tYZ5chDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:doCdnXR8sdl8HDXX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
> >>>>>> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man
> >>>>>> hostage for the last five years of his life."
>
Errrrm... Fluff, were you out there in the Bluebird motor home with
Pat and Annie, who ministered to LRH's every need during the last
years of his life? If not, how can you make such broad brush judgment
calls about who had ulterior motives and when?
Are you channeling this wisdom through your OT perceptics? Somehow, I
kinda doubt it.
Baby Doll
wrote:
> "barbz" <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> news:XUOqm.169641$cf6.1...@newsfe16.iad...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Voltaire's Child wrote:
>
> >>news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> >>> message
> >>>news:9rWdne5tYZ5chDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:doCdnXR8sdl8HDXX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
> >>>>>> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man
> >>>>>> hostage for the last five years of his life."
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The spanking convention will help you a lot ....Diana is great in that
for sure ... go get some...
Thorazine Shuffle
wrote:
> "barbz" <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> news:XUOqm.169641$cf6.1...@newsfe16.iad...
>
>
>
> > Voltaire's Child wrote:
>
> >>news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> >>> message
> >>>news:9rWdne5tYZ5chDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:doCdnXR8sdl8HDXX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
> >>>>>> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man
> >>>>>> hostage for the last five years of his life."
>
Are you privy to some information that the rest of us aren't?
John
>"Astrid" <Astrid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:fb9fef4c-af50-4cae-af04->c7e10b...@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>Ee gads, why couldn't they have just rented a small arena, and
>determined the person with the most super powerz should lead
>Scientology. And no, "short" is not a super power.
DM = DollMan.
phil scott
>
> - Show quoted text -
Very nice find!! I knew these were all assholes from the start..
now finally we have it in the
original.
phil scott
> >news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
> >> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in
> >> message
> >>news:9rWdne5tYZ5chDbX...@posted.internetamerica
> >>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:doCdnXR8sdl8HDXX...@giganews.com...
>
> >>>> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:gpSdnQO4Gc987jXX...@giganews.com
> >>>>> "Miscavige and Broker succeeded in holding the Old Man
> >>>>> hostage for the last five years of his life."
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
thanks for the re-boot barbz... its easy to forget amidst all the spin
and noise.
Phil scott
Eldon
Do you think this sounds like LRH's writing style? Sounds a bit flip
to me.
I have no opinion about the loyalty of Pat and Annie vis a vis DM,
except that I doubt they spent several years conspiring against him
while they were living with him.
phil scott
>
> - Show quoted text -
it is clear that Hubbard wanted the Broekers to take over... their
abuse by DM indicates
who was who in that mess. The last of Hubbards wills at 5 days and
at one day before he
died, are both grossly more than suspect however as Hubbie was long
since ..errr.... ah
terminally over the edge not at all of sound mind and body..
Yet these bogus wills were not contested on those obvious grounds...
why? For that look to who
the behind the scenes players are... and from where the cult has
gotten its support in foreign court
cases over the the years...as evidenced by Monique Yinglng, IRS
attorney, and attorney to the cult in
attacking Bob Minton, Helena Kobrin, lead cult attorny, Husband
recently retired US intelligence agent,
the founder of the CST which holds the copy rights, Meade Emmory,
second in command of the IRS
when he drafted the first documents in 1972, and l bit later as the
noose was tightened in 1977 then again in the 80's...and then Greece
convicting the cult of joint venturing with the US CIA to steal its
state secrets just
a few years ago. and of course the cult spawned USBX bank in legal
and registered joint venture with the CIA's legitimated business arm
(its huge world wide)... thats a partial list indicating whom is
would be seeing
to it that Hubbies bogus wills were not contested and the cult run by
a culpable idiot...DM in this case.
or........... alternatively... all those top level US govt interests,
in a row, for decades...and continuing could be
coincidence :) do ya think?
Oh yes, and same with the gun runners BCCI bank collapse of the early
80's..and all those players, same ones in the VSE frauds, Robt
Duggan, Friedlander, Bayback, the fleshback bruddahs.. etc..all in the
same SEC filings. its a coincidence I tell you.
is it a *conspiracy? of course not. This paper work for the most
part is about as out in the open as humanly possible.. all of it.
some missng no doubt such as Hubby's will made when of sound mind and
body.. that seems to be missing.
The individual deals and hose jobs though, in another
category...simple crime and of course when two or more collude it IS
conspiracy and thats a comon charge... but not in the right wing
nutter context some try to use as as smear job when I mention this
lineage.
This entire cult/ govt associations fiasco is all duely and legally
recorded in SEC filings, and from what I can tell so are the hundreds
of shell corporations... 'legally' bullet proof. because its too
much of a mess to ever get to the bottom of.
Many witnesses on all of that including the
now conveniently deader than hell Dr Gene Denk... another in a long
long chain of deader than
hell witnesses, accounting no doubt for mr Broekers fading into the
sunset so silently.
***
it is messy. Along those lines was the FBI raids, accomplished in
1977 in the same time frame Meade Emmory deputy IRS commissioner was
filing papers to take over the cults copy rights... and the reports
many have of govt agents infiltrating the cult in same time frame
(now folks, in those years and currently the FBI takes great pains to
infiltrate any and all such groups, cults among them... many of us
have seen the unmistakable signs as well, for instance an entire
office of terse looking sharp dressers in offices behind the elevators
at the FH, none of which responded to cult speak when I wandered in
there one day looking for my glasses)... if you know about the Black
Panther party you will know it was taken over by two white guys, FBI
agents in fact, and still remained the black panthers fighting for
that cause...it was front page news when both testified on their death
beds that they had indeed taken over the panthers by instigating
strife and deadly fights between them...
Did that happen with the cult? Personally Im sure it did...was it a
clean as a cut piece of cheeze? no... it was a mish mash..and kept
that way so that would be unfathomable...as it stands now the criminal
cult is set up to be and I think is, one of the worlds premier money
laundering organizations, with big time espionage thrown in...
that would be via the worlds hottest million dollar a copy data base..
sold to govts and states world wide, from Oracle corp (founded with
CIA money for that stated purpose)... in joint venture to sell and
service it by guess who? out of all the tweekers in the world? e
republic... founded and run by USGO insiders. one an indicted co-
conspiritor.
Now... in that time frame, late 70's, early 80's I wrote a letter to
Elrong asking him if he was nutz or something allowing the USGO to
behave like a ruthless bunch of sociopaths ruining scns
reputation...so was that an accident? My guress it was at least
half accident, driven by Hubbies insane KSW policy etc...and
potentiall some FBI infitration into the USGO itself... IF that is the
case...THEN.. that would explain wny the CIA money founded Oracle Corp
would use the USGO founded e republic to do its bidding.
Phil scott
Voltaire's
Although this is a straw man argument, I will answer the question
although I don't think you really deserve it.
I have indeed said that Hubbard has lied about many things. I also
have publicly stated that he died raving about demons.
But thanks for the fucking vote of confidence, yo.
C
Voltaire's
> On Sep 13, 6:28 pm, "Voltaire'sChild" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "barbz" <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:XUOqm.169641$cf6.1...@newsfe16.iad...
>
>
> > >> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
I didn't realize that the Broekers were another kha-khan here. Kind of
like some people (still) hold the ex LMTers...kind of funny.
I said what my impressions were and I also said that for all I know,
Hubbard did appoint Pat Broeker. As to the rest, my impressions are as
good as anyone else's- and possibly better than some.
C
Voltaire's
wrote:
> On Sep 13, 9:28 am, "Voltaire'sChild" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "barbz" <xenub...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:XUOqm.169641$cf6.1...@newsfe16.iad...
>
>
> > >> "t_shuffle" <thorazineshuf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:GNednSOyZteuvTbX...@giganews.com...
>
See other posts.
C
rhill
> On Sep 13, 9:41 am, rhill <rh...@xenu-directory.net> wrote:
>> Voltaire'sChild wrote:
>>
>>> I do know the history. You know what I really know?
>>> That they ~said~ they were tagged by Hubbard. Maybe he did, at that.
>>> But they were still lying sacks of shit.
>> I wonder... Since Hubbard is a proven liar, did you ever refer to
>> Hubbard as a "lying sack of shit"?
>>
>
> Although this is a straw man argument,
("straw man argument"... lolwut?)
> I will answer the question although I don't think you really deserve it.
Thanks for the magnanimity.
>
> I have indeed said that Hubbard has lied about many things. I also
> have publicly stated that he died raving about demons.
>
> But thanks for the fucking vote of confidence, yo.
>
> C
I know you agreed in the past that Hubbard lied. I was specifically
asking if you ever referred to Hubbard as a "lying sack of shit", just
like you did for the Broekers. "Raving about demons" is *obviously not*
the same thing as "lying sack of shit". Given your above answer, I
understand you never called Hubbard a "lying sack of shit," despite his
long documented track record of lies, deceit and misrepresentations. But
then, unlike the "lying sack of shit" Broekers, he did provide humans
with a way to blow "the barriers that obscure the ultimate truth of the
universe," so I suppose that saved him from being referred to as a
"lying sack of shit."
--
Ray.
Voltaire's Child
"rhill" <rh...@xenu-directory.net> wrote in message
news:h8mjll$4cv$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Why are you putting me on trial for having an interest in Scientology on a
thread about Marty saying Pat Broeker lied?
I mean, seriously, what the fuck.
Baby Doll
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Cause you are scientologist ......... follow the misstress
Voltaire's Child
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f02541d8-611e-4a8c...@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> I have no opinion about the loyalty of Pat and Annie vis a vis DM,
> except that I doubt they spent several years conspiring against him
> while they were living with him.
They kinda came off like a couple of sad sacks, I thought.
But let me put it another way: a person (like, say, the Broekers) can get
fucked over by another person (like, say, DM) and still also be a shit. Life
is not either/or. It is not black/white. Unless one happens to be my Xenu
kitteh...
C
Thorazine Shuffle
wrote:
With all due respect, it probably started with the whole lying sack of
shit thing that you've been able to support with first second or third
hand anecdotal anything. Just sayin'..
Voltaire's Child
"Thorazine Shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1add0f45-f22f-4956...@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
No. I was talking about Pat and Annie Broeker in a thread about them- a
thread that was not originated by me.
People post their opinions and they post anecdotes here all the time. I know
you certainly have.
C
Baby Doll
wrote:
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
and who did get you fucked ?
Voltaire's Child
>
>>
>> Why are you putting me on trial for having an interest in Scientology on
>> a
>> thread about Marty saying Pat Broeker lied?
>>
>> I mean, seriously, what the fuck.
>
>> With all due respect, it probably started with the whole lying sack >of
>>shit thing that you've been able to support with first second or third
>>hand anecdotal anything. Just sayin'..
>
> No. I was talking about Pat and Annie Broeker in a thread about them- a
> thread that was not originated by me.
>
> People post their opinions and they post anecdotes here all the time. I
> know you certainly have.
So how many of you fine people on this thread have editorialized posted
speculations and anecdotes about Marty Rathbun and about many other people-
in Scn, out of Scn, in the critic's scene, in the pages of Scn history, so
to speak and yet it's a problem if someone else does so?
Oh, wait. I know the answer. All of you have done so.
C
Thorazine Shuffle
wrote:
typo: able was supposed to be unable. ironic?
Voltaire's Child
"Thorazine Shuffle" <thorazin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28f6da49-2b67-49c3...@w37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > With all due respect, it probably started with the whole lying sack of
> > shit thing that you've been able to support with first second or third
> > hand anecdotal anything. Just sayin'..
> typo: able was supposed to be unable. ironic?
Oh, mebbe a teensy bit... I've posted far worse typos than that one, for
sure!
C
barbz
You're being challenged to back up your assertions; something that
probably doesn't happen much on the forii u usually hang out on.
Baby Doll
wrote:
> "Voltaire's Child" <Voltaires_Ch...@ymail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have not posted anything about MR ... and I am not interested at
all ... but guess what you and many dudes related to you post about
people they never met so I doubt you are making the history by
creating gossip.... or was it that the fair game rule? Phil opened my
eyes about the ex-scientology spanking mistress.
rhill
Huh?! Asking whether you ever referred to proven liar L. Ron Hubbard as
a "lying sack of shit" is putting you on "trial for having an interest
in Scientology"? In this thread, I don't question your interest in
Scientology -- I know you have one. I essentially question why the
Broekers deserve to be called "sacks of shit" for their alleged lies,
while Hubbard get a free pass on the "sack of shit" thing despite his
proven lies. Exactly *why* is it unfair to ask why in your views Hubbard
doesn't also deserve the "sack of shit" description?
So now you're a victim of malicious people asking questions ("putting me
on trial"), as opposed to, say, the Broekers, because you know, they
*really* deserve to be called "lying sacks of shit," while you really
deserve not to be asked questions. Is that how it works?
Look, I just asked originally because after you referred to the Broekers
as "sacks of shit" for their (alleged) lying, it was funny to picture this:
Someone: "Say C, what is your religion?"
You: "Scientology. Founded by lying sack of shit L. Ron Hubbard."
Because, you know, he *did* lied a lot (among other things, like his
urge to have some people destroyed.) But I get it, the Broekers deserve
to be called "sack of shit" for their (alleged) lying, but not Hubbard,
despite his (established) lies. And asking you why is that so is somehow
"putting [you] on trial for having an interest in Scientology."
All told, what I gather so far from your convoluted answers: You deeply
value Hubbard -- unlike the Broekers -- which gives him a free pass on
the "sack of shit" thing.
--
Ray.
Voltaire's
You mean like this forum, B? C'mon.
I said what I thought. It was my opinion. I saw the video, I've talked
to people- old timer types- about the Broekers, and like anyone else
here, I've formulated and posted opinions about that and other
subjects.
This gives me something in common with roughly 99,9% of the denizens
of this forum.
Neener.
C
Voltaire's
> Voltaire'sChild wrote:
> > Why are you putting me on trial for having an interest in Scientology on
> > a thread about Marty saying Pat Broeker lied?
>
> > I mean, seriously, what the fuck.
>
> Huh?! Asking whether you ever referred to proven liar L. Ron Hubbard as
> a "lying sack of shit" is putting you on "trial for having an interest
> in Scientology"?
Sure, it is. It's a non sequitur. Because YOU know I'm a Scn'ist, YOU
brought Hubbard into the mix.
> In this thread, I don't question your interest in
> Scientology -- I know you have one. I essentially question why the
> Broekers deserve to be called "sacks of shit" for their alleged lies,
> while Hubbard get a free pass on the "sack of shit" thing despite his
> proven lies.
But why would you even ask if I called him one on a thread about the
Broekers?
> Exactly *why* is it unfair to ask why in your views Hubbard
> doesn't also deserve the "sack of shit" description?
No comment. Never said he did deserve it, never said he didn't. It's a
non issue. It's not sequitur to this discussion.
>
> So now you're a victim of malicious people asking questions ("putting me
> on trial"), as opposed to, say, the Broekers, because you know, they
> *really* deserve to be called "lying sacks of shit," while you really
> deserve not to be asked questions. Is that how it works?
I'm no victim.
C