From a Haitian Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien
Kevin Filan
raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
> Oh, that's sweet, thank you Houngan Yves!
>
> (No, SoTiny, I am NOT Houngan Yves. His photo appears at
> http://mamboracine.tripod.com/gede2000.html . I can not
> write French, nor speak it very well, but he used to be a
> schoolteacher so I assume he has some French.
Let's take a look at the headers on that post from "Houngan Yves."
* * * * *
From: hounga...@my-deja.com
Subject: From a Haitian Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien
Date: 30 Nov 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <905p62$32b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 proxy4.in.dotsafe.net:8888 (Squid/2.2.STABLE5), 1.0
x61.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.20.83.29, 216.20.10.54
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Nov 30 14:45:25 2000 GMT
X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhoungan_yves
Newsgroups: soc.culture.haiti
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.5; Mac_PowerPC)
* * * *
The important line in those headers is the "X-Http-Proxy." This
contains information regarding where this post originated:
* * * * *
for client 216.20.83.29, 216.20.10.54
* * * * *
Now, when we go to Samspade.org and do a WHOIS and IP-lookup on these
two numbers, we see they both originate at:
Merrimack Education Center (NETBLK-MECNET-2)
101 Mill Road
Chelmsford, MA 01824
* * * * *
Houngan Yves posted this at the Merrimack Education Center in
Chelmsford, Massachusetts. (To get even more technical, it was posted
using a Macintosh PowerPC running Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.5).
Let's do a bit more digging, shall we? Here are the headers from a post
from "mambo...@my-deja.com"
* * * * *
From: mambo...@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: What Is Public, What Is Private In Vodou
Date: 29 Nov 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <903goa$977$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <20001127190823...@nso-fq.aol.com> <90336m$mm4
$1...@wanadoo.fr>
X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 proxy3.in.dotsafe.net:8888 (Squid/2.2.STABLE5), 1.0
x57.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.20.83.29, 216.20.10.53
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Nov 29 17:52:13 2000 GMT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.haiti
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.5; Mac_PowerPC)
* * * * *
And what do you know ... this was ALSO posted from the Merrimack
Education Center in Chelmsford, Massachusetts!!!
What a coincidence. The mind boggles.
> I also enjoyed working with Houngan Yves, and I am
> looking forward to seeing him again when he assists
> with the January 2001 kanzo. :-)
Why wait that long? Apparently you and he are working in the same
building.
*sniff* I believe I smell a sockpuppet.
Peace
Kevin Filan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
OmiJuba
old, everywhere I go, almost on every website, everytime I turn around, you
all are fighting.
It's apparent Mambo Racine that they are just pathetically trying to get the
best of you. There not worth it, really. They will never achieve a fraction
of what you have, it's jealousy. There trying desperately to suck your
energy. They just want to be you so bad...lol. Keep you head up and don't
let them get to you. They know what's up and there just jealous.
-ÓmėJubā
Dieu seul Maitre
Ou deye pou kal la mambo Racine!
Better one be aware than unprepared!
So you trust and believe in here
Bon!
Your turn is coming around the block!
>
--
Ounfň Trois Bebe
si doux, si chers, la vie-a n'a pas de prix!
catherine yronwode
>
> In article <20001130153519...@nso-fs.aol.com>,
> raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
> > Oh, that's sweet, thank you Houngan Yves!
> >
> > (No, SoTiny, I am NOT Houngan Yves. His photo appears at
> > http://mamboracine.tripod.com/gede2000.html . I can not
> > write French, nor speak it very well, but he used to be a
> > schoolteacher so I assume he has some French.
>
> Let's take a look at the headers on that post from "Houngan Yves."
>
>
> Houngan Yves posted this at the Merrimack Education Center in
> Chelmsford, Massachusetts. (To get even more technical, it was posted
> using a Macintosh PowerPC running Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.5).
>
> Let's do a bit more digging, shall we? Here are the headers from a
> post from "mambo...@my-deja.com"
>
>
> And what do you know ... this was ALSO posted from the Merrimack
> Education Center in Chelmsford, Massachusetts!!!
I notice that although Kevin did not mention it, the header reveals that
the Mambo also posted from a Macintosh PowerPC running Microsoft
Internet Explorer 4.5)
> What a coincidence. The mind boggles.
Truly.
> > I also enjoyed working with Houngan Yves, and I am
> > looking forward to seeing him again when he assists
> > with the January 2001 kanzo. :-)
>
> Why wait that long? Apparently you and he are working in the same
> building.
...at identical twin computers! :-)
> *sniff* I believe I smell a sockpuppet.
I thought i heard Budddy Bolden shout
"Open the window and let the foul air out!"
Said, "Open up the window, let the bad air out!"
I thought i heard him shout
I thought i heard Buddy Bolden say
"She's nasty, she's dirty, take her away!"
"Nasty and dirty, Lord, take her away!"
I thought i heard him say
"Buddy Bolden" as performed by Bunk Johnson,
New orleans, Lousiana, 1947
cat yronwode
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
No personal e-mail, please; just catch me in usenet; i read it daily.
Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html
E. C. Ballard
there are Vodunsi sprouting from under every rock who NEVEr post
otherwise and all seem to disappear when she does. Could this be just
coincidence or is there some magical syncronicity? One of the unanswered
questions of life. ;-)
Eoghan
Racine125
>It's apparent Mambo Racine that they are just pathetically
>trying to get the best of you. There not worth it, really. They
>will never achieve a fraction of what you have, it's jealousy.
Oh, THANK YOU OmiJuba! That means a lot to me, because I
have been on your board at
http://www.egroups.com/CaribbeanMagic
for a long time, as you know, and I have always found you
to be a fair, thoughtful and plain-spoken person. Did I also
mention knowledgeable?
:-)
>There trying desperately to suck your energy. They just want to
>be you so bad...lol. Keep you head up and don't
>let them get to you. They know what's up and there just jealous.
Thank you again! And again and again... :-) Now I suppose
you'll get some posts calling you a lot of dirty names too! LOL!
Oh well, the dogs bark, the caravan passes. Excuse me, it's just
a metaphor, I am not referring to any person as a "dog".
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
Haitian Proverb
The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html
Racine125
"She's nasty, she's dirty, take her away!"
Cat, I'm shocked at you, why would you write stuff like that?
That's really out of character for you, I've always had respect
for you.
Now listen up! Houngan Yves is Houngan Yves, and I am me.
We are two different people. Houngan Yves' picture appears
on:
http://mamboracine.tripod.com/gede2000.html
Houngan Yves lives in Haiti, in the town of Jacmel, where Internet
access is... well, intermittent. Sometimes we have it every
day for weeks, sometimes we go without it for weeks, sometimes
it's here today and gone tomorrow.
Houngan Yves speaks French and Haitian Creole, he does not
speak English. He writes his posts in French and runs them
through the AltaVista translator, and then he posts.
Sometimes he sends his posts, the ones he considers especially
important, to me. This is so that I can either clean up the
English (AltaVista is not a human being, obviously, and the
translations can be a bit stiff), or so that I can post his work
to sites he has trouble accessing from ACN's satellite-link-
relay-repeater-etc. terminals.
Houngan Yves is an adult Haitian man and a Houngan asogwe.
I do not and CAN not tell him what to say. Sometimes he agrees
with me, sometimes not, as you can see if you have a look
at some of the things he has written on this and other forums.
His personal email is kana...@yahoo.com, and you can
feel free to email him if you want to verify that the posts made
from his account are authored by him.
This is not unusual, by the way, I do the same thing for other
Haitians active in the area of human rights. It is extremely
difficult for majority class Haitians to obtain internet access,
and I consider it a privilege to offer that opportunity to people
who otherwise wouldn't have it.
Now Cat, I have always enjoyed good relations with you, and
I know that others have found your work of value, even to the point
of plagiarizing you! I supported you in your protests, I continue
to regard you and your work as being valuable online resources,
and I would appreciate it if you would accord me the same
respect.
catherine yronwode
had said he "smelled a sock puppet" -- something stinky. The song
contained a reference to opening a window to let the "foul air" out.
You and i and Kevin and others all know what the slang term sock puppet
refers to in usenet usage, but for the benefit of newbie readers -- a
sock puppet is a fake ID set up by a controversial or publicity-seeking
person who will then use this fake ID to either "support" or "oppose"
his or her original posts in a usenet newsgroup.
Whether or not the Houngan in question is a real being and whther or not
he actually wrote that post are not the bottom-line issues here.
The bottom line is that Kevin caught you posting AS IF UNDER HIS NAME.
He caught you playing with a sock puppet.
Playing with sock puppets is not only frowned upon in usenet, it is a
cause for open contempt and ridicule. I thought Kevin was very mild in
his analysis of your headers, and although i followed his "smell"
reference with a silly song about stinky smells (and kept it topical,
because the song was by a New Orleans black musician who practiced
hoodoo :-) ), neither of us were going after you with the full force of
loathing and vituperation and contempt i have often seen levelled at
chronic sock puppeteers in other newsgroups. We were fairly polite, i
think, given the situation.
If you wish to avoid being caught out as a sock puppeteer in the future,
all you have to do is make all of your posts in each newsgroup (and
preferably in all of usenet) under ONE screen name.
If you wish to forward the post of someone else (e.g. from another
newsgoup or from email (the latter with permission only, according the
rules of netiquette), but you donl;t wish the post to be confused with
something YOU wrote, then you can avoid sock puppetry charges by simply
posting the message under your own name and prepending a bracketed
comment like:
[cc'd from email with sender's permission]
or
[cc'd from email; please note, original author is <name>, not me.] ]
or
[fwd'd from the newsgroup alt.foo.foo for discussion here].
If you feel embarrassed because you are posting a forward in defense of
your own self, it is wise to frankly acknowledge and thus defuse that
embarrassment, perhaps by using an opening like this:
[The following was received in email and is forwarded because the sender
does not have usenet access. I realize that it may seem self-serving of
me to post this here, because it supports my position in this debate,
but i can assure you that the sender is genuine and that he has
requested that i forward his message. Any posts made in reply will be
forwarded to him through email for his comments, which will be reposted
here.]
See? No sock puppets needed -- and thus no stinky socks that lead to my
making foolish quotations from old blues songs!
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Racine125
<c...@luckymojo.com> writes:
>Whether or not the Houngan in question is a real being and whther or not
>he actually wrote that post are not the bottom-line issues here.
Of COURSE it is. Houngan Yves is a real person, I
talked with him on the phone about a half-hour ago. Again
you or anyone with any doubts about the authorship
of the posts made under his name are invited to email him
at kana...@yahoo.com
I am not hiding anything, I am PROUD that I am able to
help him and other majority-class Haitians who otherwise
would not have internet acces, to find world-wide exposure
for their thoughts and ideas. I will continue to do so for
him and for others.
You might want to have a look at the following pages:
http://members.aol.com/roots125/antigang.html - "Antigang", by
Johnson Aristide. A poem by a pro-democracy activist
and torture survivor.
http://members.aol.com/roots125/temwen.html - "Testimony of
a Haitian Pro-Democracy Activist". Johnson Aristide recounts
his experiences of persecution and torture.
http://members.aol.com/racine125/slsht01.html - A translation of
a narrative by a pro-democracy Houngan in Port-au-Prince.
In each of those cases, I wrote the HTML, but not the content.
THAT belongs to the authors of the text.
Even if Houngan Yves' ideas differed radically from mine,
I would still assist him to post when he asks me to. Unlike
some other people, I am secure in my accomplishments,
and I am not threatened by others with opinions which
differ from my own.
If you think I should write "fwd from Houngan Yves" over posts
that I put on the 'Net for him, maybe that would be a good
idea - but it doesn't really make any difference, since HE says
what HE wants.
Peace and love,
Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen
"Se bon ki ra",
Good is rare - Haitian Proverb
Kevin Filan
raci...@aol.com (Racine125) wrote:
> *I* talked with Houngan Yves, *I* asked him to have a look at
> these threads. Houngan Yves is a real person, unlike Soutini's
> many aliases.
"Woy," "Dieu Seul Maitre" and "Yakite Sa te Bo Manbo Dagimen Menfo" are
all posting from wanadoo.fr, a French ISP; Soutini is posting from an
American ISP, rasserver.net. (I don't think that's her ISP, but I
suspect her ISP is using rasserver.net's dialups in the US). They're
almost certainly different people, unless Soutini is making a whole lot
of intercontinental flights.
> Houngan Yves lives in Haiti, in the town of Jacmel, where Internet
> access is... well, intermittent. Sometimes we have it every
> day for weeks, sometimes we go without it for weeks, sometimes
> it's here today and gone tomorrow.
How exactly does one access the Internet from Jacmel, Haiti? (No,
that's not a flame: it's a serious question). I remember you saying in
an earlier post that you had left your old laptop with your Haitian
hounsis and had thereby provided them with Internet access.
When I go to America Online's list of foreign access numbers, the only
one which comes up is the AOL Globalnet number for Port-au-Prince.
HAITI (509) Port Au Prince 223 7489 9.6 $12.00 AOLGlobalnet
That's a 9600 baud connnection, available for a surcharge of $12 an
hour in addition to the standard fee of $19.95 a month, plus whatever
long-distance fees one would incur calling Port-au-Prince from Jacmel.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no ISPs in Jacmel, although I
did find an interesting article about a cyber-cafe in Petionville at:
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/160.html
> His personal email is kana...@yahoo.com, and you can
> feel free to email him if you want to verify that the posts made
> from his account are authored by him.
Why do I suspect that Houngan Yves wouldn't be the one getting this
email, although the reply might be signed "Houngan Yves?" ;)
Peace
Kevin Filan
kafo...@my-deja.com
In the words of my grand-father...
"The true gentleman is he, who knows when to quit."
Kafou "At your service. always." Lobo
kafo...@my-deja.com
sou...@my-deja.com
> Soutini is posting from an
> American ISP, rasserver.net. (I don't think that's her ISP, but I
> suspect her ISP is using rasserver.net's dialups in the US). They're
> almost certainly different people, unless Soutini is making a whole )
> lot of intercontinental flights.
Thank you Kevin. I do travel a lot, but it would be too expensive for
me to hook up anywhere else, I use the cyber-cafes.
>
<snip>
>
> How exactly does one access the Internet from Jacmel, Haiti? (No,
> that's not a flame: it's a serious question). I remember you saying
> in an earlier post that you had left your old laptop with your Haitian
> hounsis and had thereby provided them with Internet access.
This is really what I wanted to answer. Nobody yet can have a private
internet line in Jacmel. However there is One, only one place with
three (working) computers, right above the Librairie Deschamps that
everybody can utilize at the conditions you describe below. (9600 baud
at $15.00 (haitian$, an hour).
>
> When I go to America Online's list of foreign access numbers, the only
> one which comes up is the AOL Globalnet number for Port-au-Prince.
>
> HAITI (509) Port Au Prince 223 7489 9.6 $12.00 AOLGlobalnet
>
> That's a 9600 baud connnection, available for a surcharge of $12 an
> hour in addition to the standard fee of $19.95 a month, plus whatever
> long-distance fees one would incur calling Port-au-Prince from Jacmel.
> To the best of my knowledge, there are no ISPs in Jacmel, although I
> did find an interesting article about a cyber-cafe in Petionville at:
>
> http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/160.html <snip>
>
> Kevin Filan
>
Often, the computers are down, no phone, but Baiily (compa.net) plans
to open a cyber-cafe there soon. There is hope for better days.
--
Soutini
http://host.awwm.com/soutini/
www.freeyellow.com/members5/lamitie/index.html
Racine125
>How exactly does one access the Internet from Jacmel, Haiti? (No,
>that's not a flame: it's a serious question). I remember you saying in
>an earlier post that you had left your old laptop with your Haitian
>hounsis and had thereby provided them with Internet access.
For the benefit of serious individuals who are interested
in internet access in Jacmel, Haiti, the first internet cafe in the
town was Biznet, at the Maison Henri Deschamps. I
have recently been informed that there are now others
but I do not know the names of the establishments.
There are also internet cafes in Port-au-Prince and I
assume in Cap Haitien and so on, although I do not
know that for a fact.
In general such places provide internet access by the
hour, at anywhere between 65 and 125 Haitian gourdes
per hour. Because this is beyond the means of most
majority class Haitians, it helps enormously to have
a computer on which a person can create files, and
then quickly cut-and-paste into email frames or discussion
board windows or whatever once the person is online.
There are also local businessmenin Jacmel who have private
Internet acces, and since Houngan Yves is a pleasant
person who is well respected in his community, apparently
he has at least one such friend who lets him get online
when Biznet is closed or not functioning.
Racine125
>Nobody yet can have a private
>internet line in Jacmel.
That is not true. ACN offers them, for (get this) $1,500 a year, US.
A few people in Jacmel do have them
right above the Librairie Deschamps that
>everybody can utilize at the conditions you describe below. (9600 baud
>at $15.00 (haitian$, an hour).
It's called Biznet, the charge is $13 Haitian (65 gourdes)
per hour, and the modems are faster than that.
Racine125
>Why do I suspect that Houngan Yves wouldn't be the
>one getting this email, although the reply might be
>signed "Houngan Yves?" ;)
Because you are a deceptive person and therefore think
other people are too?
Houngan Yves has my total respect, I don't post things
over his name that he didn't author. We talk on the
phone often, he emails me as often as he has access,
and I have just completed a French language web page
for HIM, saying what HE wants to say.
You keep saying you are coming to Haiti. Well - come on!
I'll be happy to introduce you to Houngan Yves.
catherine yronwode
>
> If you think I should write "fwd from Houngan Yves" over posts
> that I put on the 'Net for him, maybe that would be a good
> idea - but it doesn't really make any difference, since HE says
> what HE wants.
Yeah, that's all i was getting at. Identify the post as a forward from
Houngan Yves and post it under your own name. Otherwise you leave
yourself open to accusations of playing with sock puppets -- and who
needs that hassle?
Cordially,
cat yronwode
Denise Oliver-Velez
<c...@luckymojo.com> wrote:
(snip)
>You and i and Kevin and others all know what the slang term sock puppet
>refers to in usenet usage, but for the benefit of newbie readers -- a
>sock puppet is a fake ID set up by a controversial or publicity-seeking
>person who will then use this fake ID to either "support" or "oppose"
>his or her original posts in a usenet newsgroup.
>
I forget that many of our readers are new to Usenet cat, thanks for
reminding me.
For those of you who might want to laugh, read the humorous
Dear Emily Postnews,
foremost authority on proper net behaviour, gives her advice on how to
act on the net.
http://www.templetons.com/brad//emily.html#emily
for those unfamiliar with usenet
rules for posting to Usenet
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/
How should I react to abusive postings or email?
http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/abusive.html
Usenet "Trolls"
http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm
More information on trolls can be found at the following web pages:
http://ddi.digital.net/~gandalf/trollfaq.html
http://www.melsa.net/internet/tut11.htm
http://www.la.dtu.dk/~hbm/alt.flame/napalm.html
http://www.intersurf.com/~aevinc/aev2trol.htm
http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/writing/flame.retardant.html
http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/trolls.html
http://www.altairiv.demon.co.uk/troll/trollfaq.html
for more humor read
Emily Postnews answers your questions on how to create a new alt group
http://www.landfield.com/faqs/alt-hierarchies/emily-alt-advice/
for the history of Usenet:
http://www.vrx.net/usenet/history/rename.html
for the history of our own little corner of cyberspace the
"alt.hierarchy" which cat brought up in an earlier post
read "the Birth of alt"
http://www.vrx.net/usenet/history/rename.html#birth
hope this is enuf (grin)
Denise
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
to the addition (Was Re: From a Haitian Houngan...)
I have said repeatedly that I assist Houngan Yves to
post, to translate, and to write a website. This is not
a "sock puppet" which you define as "a fake ID set up by
a controversial or publicity-seeking person who will then
use this fake ID to either "support" or "oppose" his or her
original posts in a usenet newsgroup. "
Houngan Yves Jean-Louis is a real person, and he is
a Houngan asogwe of Haitian Vodou. He is a very
nice person, actually, and he deserves respect. I am
not making up his identity, I am not putting words in
his mouth - in fact his ideas on initiating foreigners and
mine are different, as anyone can see.
More than that - in a country where 61% of the population
is suffering from malnutrition, obviously the average Haitian
can not afford to buy a computer or pay for time in an internet
cafe. Because I, through no particular merit or worthiness
of my own, was born into a situation which provided me
with an education which permits me relatively constant
employment at a reasonably high salary, I pay back some
of this blessing by assisting Haitians who do not otherwise
have Internet access to have it through me.
There are in fact four majority-class Haitians for whom I have
either posted, written websites, or pubished narratives:
Johnson Aristide - this pro-democracy activist and torture
survivor has two web pages linked to The VODOU Page, one
an account of his experiences under torture and persecution, the
other a sample of his poetry.
Houngan "Gabriel Mondesir" - this is a pseudonym for a Haitian
Houngan living in Cite Soleil, an awful slum area of Port-au-Prince.
He wanted his story told, but he feared the consequences if his
real name was given. The story is on The VODOU Page under
"Vodou and Haitian Politics", the title of the narrative is "Slingshot!"
Houngan Emile Pierre - this is a Haitian man to whom I gave the
asson. I advertised his budding sport business, through which he
hoped to offer guided snorkeling tours, since he is a professional
spearfisherman. He also has a personal page linked to The VODOU
Page, and although our personal relationship has been through
some changes, he is still my initiate and I still forward clients to him.
I have also assisted him to post HIS thoughts and HIS ideas
to several delphi.com forums.
Houngan Yves Jean-Louis - I have described my activities on
behalf of this Houngan already. Houngan Yves Jean-Louis was
incredibly helpful to me when my initiates were visiting me during
Fet Gede. He liked them, they liked him, and he will be serving
as papa kanzo in the January 2001 Kanzo.
In every one of these cases, I have always made it clear who is
doing the talking, and I have always made it clear that I am assisting
these individuals to take advantage of the wider audience provided
by the Internet, to say what they want to say.
Denise Oliver-Velez
Bout) wrote:
>Listen, thank you for the information, but I object
>to the addition (Was Re: From a Haitian Houngan...)
When changing a thread in order to change topic, for the use of
archives one includes the name of the former thread in parenthesis
Denise
Kevin Filan
> to the addition (Was Re: From a Haitian Houngan...)
>
> I have said repeatedly that I assist Houngan Yves to
> post, to translate, and to write a website. This is not
> a "sock puppet" which you define as "a fake ID set up by
> a controversial or publicity-seeking person who will then
> use this fake ID to either "support" or "oppose" his or her
> original posts in a usenet newsgroup. "
>
> Houngan Yves Jean-Louis is a real person, and he is
> a Houngan asogwe of Haitian Vodou. He is a very
> nice person, actually, and he deserves respect. I am
> not making up his identity, I am not putting words in
> his mouth - in fact his ideas on initiating foreigners and
> mine are different, as anyone can see.
There is an easy way to settle this once and for all: post the original
messages from Houngan Yves, complete with headers. You said that he
used AltaVista to translate his French into English and then sent both
the French and English messages to you... presumably through his Yahoo
account or through AOL webmail. You then made minor edits on the
AltaVista babelfish translation and reposted it.
If this is the case, a quick glance at his original message should
clearly show the point of origin, and end this "sock puppet" argument
once and for all.
Peace
Kevin Filan
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
>archives one includes the name of the former thread in parenthesis
With all due respect, Denise, couldn't you have
started a new thread?
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
a header from an email Houngan Yves sent to me from Biznet in Jacmel,
Haiti, here you go. You can't have the full text because there is personal
stuff in there, but here is the header. And if it makes it any easier for
you, Biznet is an ACN client. They send the signal by relay over the mountains
to Port-au-Prince, and after that it goes to the satellite.
Here it is Kevin! Knock yourself out! :-) Which end of the header has the
number that shows where it originates, the top or the bottom? I plugged
208.52.32.165 into samspade.org but I didn't get anything, why is that?
Return-Path: <kana...@yahoo.com>
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08:01:43 PST
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:01:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Yves Pierre-Louis <kana...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pa Bay Tet Ou Pwoblem
To: Raci...@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Kevin Filan
see
> a header from an email Houngan Yves sent to me from Biznet in Jacmel,
> Haiti, here you go. You can't have the full text because there is
personal
> stuff in there, but here is the header. And if it makes it any easier
for
> you, Biznet is an ACN client. They send the signal by relay over the
mountains
> to Port-au-Prince, and after that it goes to the satellite.
The headers were adequate for my purposes: that certainly looks like a
letter sent from Biznet in Jacmel to your AOL mailbox.
In the future when you post something from "Houngan Yves," you may want
to include the headers from his original post: if you can find it, you
may also want to post the headers of the original "Houngan Haitien"
email which you posted for him as "Houng...@my-deja.com." That would
end all disputes regarding Yves' existence (I don't think any of here
are disputing that Yves exists) and the fact that he indeed sent the
email in question.
Denise Oliver-Velez
Bout) wrote:
>>When changing a thread in order to change topic, for the use of
>>archives one includes the name of the former thread in parenthesis
>
>With all due respect, Denise, couldn't you have
>started a new thread?
>
>
I did :) (was responding to cat - see # of lines - other flame stuff
deleted - saving bandwidth and repetition of an argument I'm not
interested in getting involved in..
Was more interested in getting newbie readers/posters to take a look
at Usenet Netiquette and other posting protocols
Denise
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
writes:
>The headers were adequate for my purposes: that certainly looks like a
>letter sent from Biznet in Jacmel to your AOL mailbox.
Well, HALLELUJAH!
>In the future when you post something from "Houngan Yves," you may want
>to include the headers from his original post:
Why should I post headers? To convince an old sourpuss
who tells so many lies that he doesn't know the truth, that
Houngan Yves really sent me the email? HE SENT ME THE
EMAIL. Believe what you will, I am sick of this - what you ought
to be dong is *congratulating me* on the fact that I make
Internet access available to people who otherwise would
not have it, namely four majority-class (read, impoverished)
Haitians!
Why don't I hear you say, "Thank you Mambo Racine, for
enabling us to hear the voices of these individuals, from
whom we would otherwise hear nothing"? Why don't I
hear you say, "My compliments, Mambo Racine, on your
willingness to use your time to help those less fortunate"?
Your capacity to focus on imaginary negatives instead
of very real positives astounds me.
Maybe you should go over to the Vodou Video site and
go download a few videos or something. In fact, maybe
you would like me to put up that video of your lave tet
so the whole world can see me doing it along with Yabofe
and Houngan Edgar, instead of Yabofe alone as you
untruthfully asserted? BAH! You are a waste of my time!
I have a kanzo coming up in just a few weeks, I am too
busy for this nonsense.
Kathy Latzoni
Erm, well, yes, this is the header from *an* email originating from
Haiti on December 12... but it's not the header from any of Houngan
Yves's posts to the group.
I think Kevin was asking for the header, from the first draft, of one
of Houngan Yves's posts to alt.religion.orisha ["From a Haitian
Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien" -- November 30; "Mambo Racine et le
kanzo de janvrier 2001 - Mambo Racine and the kanzo of January 2001" --
December 9; etc.] Do you have any of those?
Try again,
Kathy L.
Kathy Latzoni
see
> a header from an email Houngan Yves sent to me from Biznet in Jacmel,
> Haiti, here you go. You can't have the full text because there is
personal
> stuff in there, but here is the header. And if it makes it any
easier for
> you, Biznet is an ACN client. They send the signal by relay over the
mountains
> to Port-au-Prince, and after that it goes to the satellite.
>
> Here it is Kevin! Knock yourself out! :-) Which end of the header
has the
> number that shows where it originates, the top or the bottom? I
plugged
> 208.52.32.165 into samspade.org but I didn't get anything, why is
that?
>
> Return-Path: <kana...@yahoo.com>
> Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com
[172.31.33.5]) by
0500
> Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (84.0/24.130.136.216.in-
addr.arpa
Dec 2000
> 11:01:49 -0500
> Message-ID: <2000121216014...@web10306.mail.yahoo.com>
> Received: from [208.52.32.165] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 12
Dec 2000
> 08:01:43 PST
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:01:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: Yves Pierre-Louis <kana...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pa Bay Tet Ou Pwoblem
> To: Raci...@aol.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
Erm, well, yes, this is the header from *an* email originating from
Haiti on December 12... but it's not the header from any of Houngan
Yves's posts to the group.
I think Kevin was asking for the header, from the first draft, of one
of Houngan Yves's posts to alt.religion.orisha ["From a Haitian
Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien" -- November 30; "Mambo Racine et le
kanzo de janvrier 2001 - Mambo Racine and the kanzo of January 2001" --
December 9; etc.] Do you have any of those?
Try again,
Kathy L.
Kathy Latzoni
see
> a header from an email Houngan Yves sent to me from Biznet in Jacmel,
> Haiti, here you go. You can't have the full text because there is
personal
> stuff in there, but here is the header. And if it makes it any
easier for
> you, Biznet is an ACN client. They send the signal by relay over the
mountains
> to Port-au-Prince, and after that it goes to the satellite.
>
> Here it is Kevin! Knock yourself out! :-) Which end of the header
has the
> number that shows where it originates, the top or the bottom? I
plugged
> 208.52.32.165 into samspade.org but I didn't get anything, why is
that?
>
> Return-Path: <kana...@yahoo.com>
> Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com
[172.31.33.5]) by
0500
> Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (84.0/24.130.136.216.in-
addr.arpa
Dec 2000
> 11:01:49 -0500
> Message-ID: <2000121216014...@web10306.mail.yahoo.com>
> Received: from [208.52.32.165] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 12
Dec 2000
> 08:01:43 PST
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:01:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: Yves Pierre-Louis <kana...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pa Bay Tet Ou Pwoblem
> To: Raci...@aol.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
Erm, well, yes, this is the header from *an* email originating from
Haiti on December 12... but it's not the header from any of Houngan
Yves's posts to the group.
I think Kevin was asking for the header, from the first draft, of one
of Houngan Yves's posts to alt.religion.orisha ["From a Haitian
Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien" -- November 30; "Mambo Racine et le
kanzo de janvrier 2001 - Mambo Racine and the kanzo of January 2001" --
December 9; etc.] Do you have any of those?
Try again,
Kathy L.
Kathy Latzoni
see
> a header from an email Houngan Yves sent to me from Biznet in Jacmel,
> Haiti, here you go. You can't have the full text because there is
personal
> stuff in there, but here is the header. And if it makes it any
easier for
> you, Biznet is an ACN client. They send the signal by relay over the
mountains
> to Port-au-Prince, and after that it goes to the satellite.
>
> Here it is Kevin! Knock yourself out! :-) Which end of the header
has the
> number that shows where it originates, the top or the bottom? I
plugged
> 208.52.32.165 into samspade.org but I didn't get anything, why is
that?
>
> Return-Path: <kana...@yahoo.com>
> Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com
[172.31.33.5]) by
0500
> Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (84.0/24.130.136.216.in-
addr.arpa
Dec 2000
> 11:01:49 -0500
> Message-ID: <2000121216014...@web10306.mail.yahoo.com>
> Received: from [208.52.32.165] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 12
Dec 2000
> 08:01:43 PST
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:01:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: Yves Pierre-Louis <kana...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Pa Bay Tet Ou Pwoblem
> To: Raci...@aol.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
Erm, well, yes, this is the header from *an* email originating from
Haiti on December 12... but it's not the header from any of Houngan
Yves's posts to the group.
I think Kevin was asking for the header, from the first draft, of one
of Houngan Yves's posts to alt.religion.orisha ["From a Haitian
Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien" -- November 30; "Mambo Racine et le
kanzo de janvrier 2001 - Mambo Racine and the kanzo of January 2001" --
December 9; etc.] Do you have any of those?
Try again,
Kathy L.
Mambo Racine Sans Bout
writes:
>I think Kevin was asking for the header, from the first draft, of one
>of Houngan Yves's posts to alt.religion.orisha ["From a Haitian
>Houngan / D'Un Houngan Haitien" -- November 30; "Mambo Racine et le
>kanzo de janvrier 2001 - Mambo Racine and the kanzo of January 2001" --
>December 9; etc.] Do you have any of those?
>
>Try again,
Look, I do not exist to satisfy you.
Houngan Yves Jean-Louis is a real person, he lives in Jacmel,
he assisted with the initiates who visited during Fet Gede. His
photo is on the page documenting the Fet Gede activities, which
is found at
http://mamboracine.tripod.com/gede2000.html
That page also contains email links for the Roots Without End
Society members who were present. Email *them* and ask them
if Houngan Yves Jean-Louis is a real person, and ask them if we did
or did not take him to Biznet, get him an email account, and show
him around the Web.
If that doesn't satisfy you, come to Haiti. You can talk to him, you
can even have your own translator and talk to him out of my presence,
and then you can ask him if he really said what he said.