Buzzard wrote:
>I allow that some individual saints sought revenge after the initial outrages
by Missourians,
Buzzard, you're still in denial of the facts. The problems were not caused by
"individual saints." They were caused by Joseph Smith's "revelations" which
stated that western Missouri was to become the Mormons' "New Jerusalem," and
that all pre-existing non-Mormons must leave the area; and Smith's revelation
calling for the "consecration" of the property of the "Gentiles" to the
Mormons.
If a group of 1200 religious fanatics moved into your neighborhood, making the
same boasts and threats, you and your neighbors would see to their expulsion.
In fact, that very thing happened just a few years ago, when the Baghwan
Rajneesh cult tried to take over an entire county in Oregon---they were booted
out as a group.
No Missourians committed any "initial outrages" against any Mormons until AFTER
Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon haughtily instructed W. W. Phelps to publish
their offensive "revelations." I've quoted you David Whitmer's very detailed,
first-hand account of that event, and exactly how it started all the Missouri
troubles.
>and Rigdon's speech was a monument to stupidity and arrogance.
It was Brigham Young, after Joseph Smith's death, who sought to "blame" the
MIssouri troubles on Rigdon's "Salt Sermon" and "War of Extermination" speech.
But what Young, and obviously today's Mormon apologists, do not disclose, is
that Smith himself spoke AFTER Rigdon, endorsing his remarks, and had Rigdon's
Independence Day speech published for distribution. As B. H. Roberts
acknowledged:
"One other thing the truth of history requires here, viz., the fixing of
responsibility for this "declaration." The unwisdom of the utterance has been
quite generally recognized by our writers, and by them responsibility for it
has been placed upon the rather fervid imagination of Sidney Rigdon, who
delivered the speech, and who quite generally is supposed to have been mainly
or wholly responsible for it. This is not true. The speech was carefully
prepared, written before delivery in fact, and read by other presiding elders
of the church before its delivery. It immediately appeared in The Far West ,a
weekly newspaper published at Liberty, Clay county; and was also published in
pamphlet form by Ebenezer Robinson on the press of the Elders' Journal. Joseph
Smith in his journal speaks of it approvingly; and in the Elders' Journal, of
which he was the editor, and in the editorial columns under his name, the
speech is approvingly recommended to the saints. In view of these facts, if
the "declaration" was of doubtful propriety, and unwise and impolitic,
responsibility for it rests not alone on Sidney Rigdon, but upon the
authorities of the church who approved it, and the people who accepted it by
their acclamation." ("Comprehensive History of the Church").
>But the church never as an institution tried to drive Missourians from their
homes.
Yes, they DID, Buzzard; you simply choose to remain in denial of the historical
accounts. As I've already documented, the final expulsion of the Mormons came
when Smith, Rigdon, and over 10,000 other Kirtland Mormons flooded into western
Missouri in the summer of 1838. Caldwell County, which had been created
especially for the Mormons to inhabit alone, could not hold the overflow.
Smith and Rigdon knew that they couldn't establish their planned economic
empire until they got rid of Mormon dissenters as well as non-Mormons who lived
in the surrounding counties. That is why they organized their "Danites" to
accomplish the task:
"When we first went to Daviess [County], I understood the object was to be to
drive out the mob, if one shold be collected there; but when we got there, WE
FOUND NONE. I then learned, the object was, from those who were actively
engaged in the matter, to DRIVE OUT ALL THE CITIZENS OF DAVIESS AND GET
POSSESSION OF THEIR PROPERTY." (Testimony of John Cleminson, "Senate Document
189.")
"The Danites were
taught to take from the Gentiles and consecrate to the Church. Nearly every
person who testified at the trial against the Mormon leaders made mention of
this fact. John Clemenson stated that 'it was frequently observed among the
troops at Diahman that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should
be consecrated to the Saints.' Jeremiah Myers testified that 'the consecrated
property...was dealt out to those in need' by Bishop Vinson Knight." (Leland
Gentry, "A History of the Latter-Day Saints in Northern Missouri," p. 385-387.)
"Danites struck at Gallatin and two other towns, Millport and Grinding Fork.
The three onslaughts occurred simultaneously and had a crushing impact on the
Missourians who were unaccustomed to Mormon resistance. When Captains Lyman
Wight, David W. Patten, and Seymour Brunson rode into Far West at the head of
their companies, the sight of wagonloads of plunder was offensive to a number
of less aggressively inclined Saints. That night they gathered their families
together and abandoned the settlement. Among the defectors were two of
Joseph's most trusted followers, Thomas B. Marsh and Orson Hyde, both members
of the Council of Twelve Apostles. The two men fled to nearby Richmond and
blurted out everything they knew." ("Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of
Thunder," Harold Schindler, p. 54.)
"The Mormons were two hundred and fifty men by the time they reached Daviess
County...The bulk of the forces went out in search of the gentile opposition.
They marched through three settlements, including Gallatin, repaying the
Missourians in kind, looting and firing stores, homes, and barns, before their
anger spent itself.....When they returned with their loot, many of their own
people were appalled and frightened. Thomas B. Marsh, Brigham Young's superior
as President of the Twelve, let it be known that he did not approve such
retaliation, and he left the church." ("Kingdom of the Saints", Ray B. West, p.
86.)
"There was much mysterious conversation in camps, as to plundering, and
house-burning; so much so, that I had my own notions about it; and, on one
occasion, I spoke to Mr. Smith, Jr., in the house, and told him that this
course of burning houses and plundering, by the Mormon troops, would ruin us;
that it could not be kept hid, and would bring the force of the state upon us;
that houses would be searched, and stolen property found. Smith replied to me,
in a pretty rough manner, to keep still; that I should say nothing about it;
that it would discourage the men...I saw a great deal of plunder and bee-steads
brought into camp; and I saw many persons, for many days, taking the honey out
of them; I understood this property and plunder were placed into the hands of
the bishop at Diahmon....The general teachings of the presidency were, that the
kingdom they were setting up was a temporal kingdom...that the time had come
when this kingdom was to be set up by
forcible means, if necessary. It was taught, that the time had come when the
riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel."
(Testimony of George M. Hinkle, "Senate Document 189".)
"Smith replied, the time had come when he should resist all law...I heard J.
Smith remark, there was a store at Gallatin, and a grocery at Millport; and in
the morning after the conversation between Smith and Wight about resisting the
law, a plan of operations was agreed on, which was: that Captain Fearnaught,
who was present, should take a company of 100 men, or more, and go to Gallatin,
and take it that day; to take the goods out of Gallatin, bring them to Diahmon,
and burn the store...On the same day, in the evening, I saw both these
companies return; the foot company had some plunder..." (Testimony of WW
Phelps, "Senate Document 189")
"After they had driven us and our families, they commenced a difficulty in
Daviess County, adjoining this county, in which they began to rob and burn
houses, etc. etc., took honey which they, (the Mormons) call sweet oil, and
hogs which they call bear, and cattle which they called buffalo. Thus they
would justify themselves by saying, "We are the people of God, and all things
are God's; therefore, they are ours." (John Whitmer's "History of the Church")
"As the [stolen] property was brought in, there was a general shout of hurrah,
and waving of hats, by those in camp. I heard Dimick Huntington, one of the
troops, tell in camp that the mob had burned the storehouse in Gallatin, but
that the Mormons had hauled off the goods; and, also, that the mob were burning
some Mormon houses. I looked at him as though I did not believe it, and he
stooped down to me (being on his horse) and whispered to me that it was Captain
[Seymour] Brunson who had gone with twenty men to the Grindstone Fork, who was
burning those houses. The goods taken in Gallatin were generally understood in
camp to have been deposited with the bishop, as consecrated property."
(Testimony of Reed Peck, "Senate Document 189").
>The same cannot be said for the official organs of the State of Missouri.
Boggs decided to issue his "extermination order" AFTER the Mormons had looted
and burned Millport, Gallatin, and Grinding Fork, and AFTER the skirmish at
Crooked River, where several men were killed. Boggs' order declared that the
Mormons "were in an open state of rebelllion....making war upon the people of
this state." Since state officials could not distinguish Mormons who were
loyal to Smith from dissenters or non-participants, he had no choice but to
order the entire body of Mormons from his state.
>BTW, it was still legal to kill Mormons in Missouri until about 25 years ago.
Every time you repeat this, your IQ goes down five more points.
>>Read John D. Lee. Read the testimony from WW Phelps, and other prominent LDS
who testified against Joseph Smith -- many who came back into the Church later
without having to confess to any lies.
>While I have not read Lee, I have read Phelps. He came back in the church
asking forgiveness.
But Phelps' return did not negate his testimony of the Missouri troubles, nor
the fact that his testimony was corroborated by numerous others.
>>Were the Mormons mistreated? Yes they were, and badly often times.
They were not, however, as innocent as faith-promoting history makes
them out to be.
>>Steve Lowther
>Well, I have my Great-great-great-great grandpa's journal account of what
happened to his family. Not a pretty sight and he never raised a weapon in
aggression or even self-defense.
>Lorin John
>aka Buzzard
So, should we just throw away the dozens of accounts, court testimony, etc., of
the first-hand eyewitnesses and participants, and trust only in your
gggg-grandpa's journal account?
If some old German who lived during WWll left a journal where he stated that he
never raised a weapon in aggression or self-defense, does that mean that no
Germans did anything wrong in WWll?
Your ignorance is apparently boundless.
Randy J.