@lds.net (Woody Brison)
>Date: 7/7/2003 12:56 PM Central Daylight Time
>I'm impressed at the block of text that Rantin' Randy
>can issue when he gets going. I'd hate to let him lose
>steam, so Randy, why don't you document -- in your best
>Rantin' Randy style --
Readers, I trust that you took note of how Woody Brison characterizes my
documentation of historical facts from legitimate historical sources as a
>this statement by you:
>Rantin' Randy wrote, in message
>> The Danite band was first organized in June 1838 by Joseph Smith
>> Junior and Sidney Rigdon. Those two men gave the Danites speficic orders
>> commit specific criminal acts. They were fully aware of, and in support
>> the Danites' criminal acts.
>My information says that the Danites were organized by
>one Doctor Avard who claimed that he was acting under
>the direction of Joseph Smith, but when Joseph heard
>about it he came down and disbanded them, and Avard
You get your information from Mormon church leaders and apologists who are paid
to slant the facts to make Joseph Smith and the church he founded appear to be
honest and inocent of all nefarious acts. Those church leaders and apologists
are liars, and you are naive enough to believe that they are telling you the
>The Danites got to hold a total
>of two meetings,
"The contemporary Mormon accounts of this period indicate that the Danites
operated frely and openly in Far West and Diahman. John Smith, the Prophet's
uncle and the stake president at Adam-ondi-Ahman, recorded five different
instances in which the Danites met:
Saturday August 4. This day the Danites met the third time in Adamondiahman
since the 22 July.....
Saturday, Aug 18. The Danites met.
Saturday, September 1. George [Smith[ has gone to Far West. The Daughters of
zion meet today. Had a lecture on the consecration by President [Lyman]
("The 1838 Mormon War in Missouri," Stephen Le Seuer, p. 44.)
>and most of the brethren who went to
>the first one were not enthusiastic and didn't go to
>the second one, feeling that it was not in accordance
>with the Spirit of the Lord to go around killing people
>and burning barns and stuff.
The orders to "go around killing people and burning barns and stuff" were given
to the Danites directly by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, as attested to by
numerous participants. The Mormon men who refused to obey Smith and Rigdon's
orders to raid and pillage non-Mormon towns were labeled "apostates" and
"traitors," and either left or were forced to leave Mormon communities.
>When you get done writin' a ream about that, how about
>favoring us with a more ample documentation of
>> The Danites---whether acting in groups or alone, by secret orders of LDS
>> leaders----committed numerous acts of crime and violence from 1838 to at
>> the 1870s.
>I -- and several dozen pretty little butterflies with
>wings still on --
That sounds a little gay to me, Woody.
>would appreciate it if you would
>please, be voluminous! and go ahead and vent, so that
>one and all may see what kind of motivation you are
>motivated by, as if they couldn't already.
I have provided documentation on the issue probably 30 times over the last five
years. I have posted the information in threads to Russell McGregor (who has
departed), Glenn Thigpen (who has departed), Diana Newman (who comes and goes
but remains in denial of the facts), and to Remedial Red Davis (who has thus
far declined to acknowledge or comment on the documentation), and to numerous
other passers-by on ARM.
You, Woody Brison, have been on ARM at least as long as I have, so you have
been here to read the documentation I have provided as well. But you have also
claimed that you don't bother to read everything I write, so I can picture you
pretending that that you haven't read my documentation, so that you can pretend
I haven't provided it.
The last time I posted this documentation was June 11, 2003 (less than one
month ago) in the thread "Mountain Meadows Massacre postscript."
Here once again is the documentation which shows that the Danite band was
organized by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon in 1838, and that they were fully
aware of, and in approval of, their acts of crime and violence:
spring of 1838, LDS leaders Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, having been run out
of Ohio because of the failure of their 'Anti-Banking Safety Society' and their
'United Order' communitarian system, escaped to the only other significant
group of Mormons, in western Missouri. Upon arriving, they immediately
attempted to institute a new version of a communistic system among their
Missouri disciples. Many of those disciples had been settled in Clay County,
after having been driven from Jackson County in 1834, and had bought land and
begun farms. Several of them, including leaders such as David Whitmer, W. W.
Phelps, John Whitmer (who were the Missouri stake presidency), Oliver Cowdery,
Lyman Johnson and others, were not interested in joining another communitarian
plan, perceiving that it would produce the same failures and financial disaster
that plagued the Kirtland attempt. Smith and Rigdon realized that if they
failed to gain full cooperation from them, that their dream of building their
"New Jerusalem", with them at the head of both 'spiritual' and 'temporal'
affairs of a hoped-for financial empire, would be dashed.
To prevent the same failures and apostasy that had plagued the Kirtland plan,
Smith and Rigdon implemented policies that called for unquestioning obedience
to leaders. Those who dissented from orders of superiors would be punished by
being driven from the area and/or "cut off" from the church.
In his "Brief History of the Church," former Mormon bishop John Corrill
recounted the situation:
"The Church in Caldwell had been doing well, with the exception of these
little difficulties among themselves, until the First Presidency came to
the Far West, and began to move things to their own notions. Many of the
Church had settled in Davies [Daviess] County, and to all appearance,
lived as peaceably with their neighbors as people generally do; but not
long after Smith and Rigden [Rigdon] arrived in Far West, they went to
Davies [Daviess] County and pitched upon a place to build a town.
L.[Lyman] Wight was already on the ground with his family. They laid out
a town and began to settle it pretty rapidly; Smith gave it the name of
Adamondiaman [Adam-ondi-Ahman], which he said was formerly given to a
certain valley, where Adam, previous to his death, called his children
together and blessed them. The interpretation in English is, "The valley
of God, in which Adam blessed his children." Many of the Church became
elated with the idea of settling in and round about the new town,
especially those who had come from Kirtland, as it was designed more
particularly for them. This stirred up the people of Davies [Daviess] in
some degree; they saw that if this town was built up rapidly it would
injure Gallatin, their county seat, and also that the Mormons would soon
overrun Davies [Daviess], and rule the county, and they did not like to
live under the laws and administration of "Joe Smith." Lyman Wight also
would frequently boast in his discourses of what they would do if the
mob did not let them alone,--they would fight, and they would die upon
the ground, and they would not give up their rights, etc.; when, as yet,
there was no mob. But this preaching inspired the Mormons with a
fighting spirit, and some of the other citizens began to be stirred up
On Sunday, June 17, Sidney Rigdon delivered what has become known as his
infamous "Salt Sermon": "He mounted the speaker's stand in the town square and
exhorted his listeners to crush dissension and apostasy with cruel
determination....Selecting for his oration the theme, 'Ye are the salt of the
earth,' Rigdon, in a thinly-veiled threat to the dissenters, warned: 'if the
salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth
good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under the foot of
"[Reed] Peck fills in the details of Rigdon's rhetoric: 'From this
scripture (Rigdon) undertook to prove that when men embrace the gospel and
afterwards lose their faith, it is the duty of the Saints to trample them under
their feet that have dissented from the church and were doing all in their
power to destroy the presidency...(he) called on the people to rise en masse
and rid the country of such a nuisance He said it is the duty of this people to
trample them into the earth and if the county cannot be freed from them any
other way I will assist to trample them down or to erect a gallows on the
square of Far West and hang them up---and it would be an act at which the
angels would smile with approbation.' ('Reed Peck Manuscript', pp. 24-25.)
"John Corrill sought out John Whitmer and warned him that trouble was in the
air. But the former church historian, unconvinced the Saints would turn on
him, refused to flee Far West...The following day the dissenters were handed an
ultimatum, drafted by Rigdon, demanding they pack and leave Far West."
("Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of Thunder," Harold Schindler, pp.
Rigdon then persuaded some 84 loyal Mormons to affix their signatures to a
"Warning Against Dissenters," which read in part:
"To Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, William W. Phelps, and Lyman
E. Johnson, greeting: Out of the county you shall go, and no power shall save
you. And you shall have three days after you receive this communication...for
you to depart with your families peaceably;...and unless you heed us,...there
shall be no escape; for there is but one decree for you, which is depart,
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