More on the GARB Baptists--Billy Graham an apostate!
GRaleigh345
the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged to in
the movie "Carrie."
We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that does
not allow him to question its beliefs, so he finds outlet for his intellect in
taking the safe way out--attacking the beliefs of other faiths:
http://websearch.cs.com/redir.adp?appname=MS&query=GARB%20Baptists&url=htt
p%3a%2f%2fmembers%2eaol%2ecom%2fibss3%2fibss3%2finstitute%2ehtm&datasource
=Google&partner=Google&clickedItemRank=11&requestId=cns21271&component=web
search.google.http.tcl&searchType=MS&clickedItemType=MS&brand=CSI&query=GA
RB%20Baptists&view=cs_portal&channel=cs_portal&source=CSNextPrev&invocatio
nType=next
From a Legalistic Young-Earther to a more Liberal Old-Earther
I was raised in a strict fundamentalist Baptist church (GARB-General
Association of Regular Baptists) where nothing but a white shirt, suit and tie
were appropriate. If a pastor wore a pastel color shirt, he was considered
liberal (this was in the 1960's). Skirts above the knee were indecent. Guitars
and any music with a beat was evil. Attending a movie was forbidden. Billy
Graham was an apostate, while Jack Van Impe flew in to proclaim that the world
would surely end in 1976. Van Impe now claims the date 2001. See
http://www.jvim.com/PerhapsToday/JanFeb97/2001.html
Right Doctrine is everything.
In the 1970's I attended very strict fundamentalist colleges, one in the north
and the other in the south. At BBC Billy Graham was still apostate. It seemed
that only fundamentalist Baptists would be in heaven. Movie theaters were paid
money for any student caught going into their theater. Starting a new church
was forbidden. Separation from the world was key especially in doctrine. In
"secondary separation" one must not talk to someone who associates with someone
else who is considered apostate which was most people and organizations unless
GARB approved. The result, many pastors and people fight among themselves for
who is the holiest, and then separate from them. Believing exactly the right
doctrine was the most important thing. There is no room for tolerance. I was
refused graduation because I did not believe exactly the same way they believed
on every doctrine. I did learn enough Hebrew and Greek to point out their
inconsistencies.
Outward appearance is everything.
In the south it was very different. Doctrine was not as important as your
outward appearance and evangelism. Win the lost at any cost. I attended TTU
(Tennessee Temple University) where men had to have very short hair cuts, and
no mustache or beards. Women were forbidden to wear pants which was considered
an abomination. Mixed swimming was forbidden which I never heard of before (men
and women can not swim together). Men and women had to stay 6 inches apart,
were not permitted to hold hands, and never, ever kiss. Even if you are
married, couples are not permitted to hold hands or kiss in public. A public
display of any affection is strictly forbidden.
At one chapel service the dean of the school said that he saw a couple kiss
before she went into her dorm. He demanded that they report to his office.
After chapel 50 couples lined up to confess. This same dean was later caught
committing adultery with the Chancellor's secretary. This had been going on for
a number of years.
Evangelism was the top priority.
One must have a big bus ministry to bring in lots of children and get them
saved by bribing them with candy or a toy. It was up to you to get them saved.
Only if you have a large church and large bus ministry, could God be blessing,
and you could be considered successful. The result, a revolving door of many
professions of faith, followed by immediate baptism. If you have the slightest
doubt, you must not be saved, so many get saved over and over again. Repeating
a simple prayer after me will save you forever even if you are the son of Sam.
The Pastor-dictator.
The Pastor is considered the dictator, the pope who takes God's place. What
ever he says goes. No one must question his authority. He is held in very high
esteem, if not even worshiped. This is no more evident then at branch chapels
where amazing things happened. One pastor would call up where you work to find
out exactly how much money you made so he could figure out exactly how much
tithe you owed the church. Then you are required to pay up. Some pastors and
visiting speakers want you to empty out all your pockets in the offering plate.
One person was torn between putting all his money in the offering plate or
buying a pair of shoes that his child desperately needed. Another key point is
starting the service exactly on time or else you get locked out; however, the
pastor ends the service whenever he is ready which is usually very late, and
his voice is about to give out from yelling for the past hour about how sinful
you were this past week, and that I am endanger of hell fire if I don't repent.
After about 50 choruses of Just as I am, and repeated pleas to come forward for
salvation the service ends unless someone comes forward and needs to be
baptized. It seems that many of these pastors are on a big ego trip, and come
from broken homes with an alcoholic father. The classic example is Jack Hyles.
See http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/
Memorization of Scripture: Is it a magic cure?
Does the Bible have magical powers. One preacher I knew had memorized the
entire book of Revelation, but would beat his wife and kids. One day he held up
his Bible as if it would magically protect him to cross a busy highway with no
stop light. He was confined to a mental hospital for a few days after he
threaten to burn down the house his wife and children were in unless they came
out. I sometimes wonder about Jack Van Impe and all the verses he has
memorized, yet he keeps setting the wrong date for the return of Christ.
Black or White, Right or Wrong!
For fundamentalists there are no gray areas. Everything is either right or
wrong. Usually, I'm right and your wrong. Most church problems are because of
personality conflicts, yet it is blamed on wrong doctrine. The results are
extreme positions with no middle ground. Some examples are extreme positions on
abortion, the KJV, separation, psychology, and politics.
All or Nothing!
All scientists must be wrong because they believe in evolution. All psychology
must be wrong because they follow Freud. One must go to a Christian doctor,
Christian counselor, and Christian stores. The result is the Christian Yellow
Pages. Bill Gothard pushes the evils of hospital births. One should give birth
at home with a midwife. Gothard wants to train future doctors by watching other
doctors, not by going to medical school which is wrong. For more on Gothard see
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/gothard/general.htm
Paranoia Prevails!
The end of the world always seems just around the corner. There are all sorts
of government conspiracies, cover ups, and world take over scenarios leading to
one world government, the beast, the Antichrist, the illuminati, and the
infamous mark of the beast, 666. Some churches have tried to out smart the
Antichrist by running up debts, building huge churches, and not planning to pay
for them because the end is near, then loosing their property because Christ
did not return. Harold Camping proclaimed the end of the world in 1994.
Christians were willing to quit their jobs, sell their homes, and sent Camping
their money. For more on Camping see http://members.aol.com/sme4264037/page4/
Cabbage Patch and Barbie dolls will make me mentally ill!
When I first attended a Bill Gothard Seminar in 1973 in Philadelphia, I thought
Bill Gothard was great. Now it is very difficult for me to listen to him
without wanting to jump up and say you're wrong. The magic of his seminars are
the 7 or 10 simple steps he offers you to follow to cure all of your problems.
In reality these do not always work the way he says they will. Big drops in
attendance is evidence of this. One of my favorites, is his claim that having a
cabbage patch doll will lead to mental illness because their middle names are
demonic. For more about Bill Gothard see
http://www.chapel42.com/gothard/index.htm.
Another favorite claim is by Dr. Dobson who says that playing with Barbie dolls
will mentally harm your daughter. So far I have not found the clinical studies
to back this up. For another side of James Dobson see the book, James Dobson's
War On America by Gil Alexander-Moegerle. See
http://www.postfun.com/pfp/books/reviews/dobson.html
Are founding Fathers were all Christians!
For Fundamentalists history is quite different. It is claimed that are founding
fathers were (fundamentalist) Christians. America was a Christian nation, but
most of the founding fathers were deists. They believed God created the world
and left it like winding up clock and leaving. Thomas Jefferson made his own
Bible by cutting out all the miracles, yet he composed the Declaration of
Independence. According to the Bible we are to obey the government, yet
fundamentalists claim the Revolutionary War was right. One supposedly good
Christian wrote in his diary how he would read his Bible all morning and then
go out and commit adultery in the afternoon.
Limited Library, Book Ban!
Books are banned from their library that do not agree with their doctrine or
standards. One book from Bob Jones University was banned because it did not
give TTU a high fundamentalist rating. One hears only the one side of the story
that they want you to hear and read about.
The Bible is Scientifically accurate!
I thought the Bible was filled with all kinds of scientific facts thousands of
years ahead of its time for example, Isaiah 40:22 mentions the "circle of the
earth." My thesis was to show if this was true. My conclusions were the
opposite. The Bible is not a scientific book, it is a spiritual book. See
http://members.aol.com/sme4264037/science2/
How old is the Earth?
All my life I was taught that the earth was very young because the Bible said
so, and "true" science confirmed it so. Henry Morris was my hero. I never heard
evidence from the other side. When I began to study geology things just did not
add up. How could the flood have created all the wide variations in the
different layers of the earth? How could there be dinosaurs tracks, dinosaur
eggs, nests, and young dinosaurs running around in the middle of the flood. Did
not the flood destroy all life? How could all the dinosaurs fit on the ark?
After careful study of both sides, the geologists had far better answers and
evidence. See http://members.aol.com/ibss2/howoldisearth.html
When I was at the last International Creationist Conference (1998) I learned
that Henry Morris' views on the flood were passé, while his son John pushed a
new view of surge tectonics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
ENDNOTES
Hassan, Steven. Combating Cult Mind Control. (Rochester,
Vermont: Park Street Press, 1988). This is an excellent book about cult mind
control.
Miller, David. Breaking Free: Rescuing Families from the
Clutches of Legalism. (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992. This is an
excellent book on legalism and its affects on the family.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Listen to our enemies' rhetoric. They're in love with their myths of
themselves, both old myths and relatively recent ones, and they're myths of
self-justification.
Ralph Peters
ForWhatItsWorth
"GRaleigh345" <grale...@cs.comQQQ> wrote in message
news:20030219091435...@mb-mr.news.cs.com...
> I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which
is
> the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
> spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged
to in
> the movie "Carrie."
>
> We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that
does
> not allow him to question its beliefs,
Dennis is a Mormon???
exmo
chrissakes.
GRaleigh345 wrote:
>
> I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which is
> the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
> spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged to in
> the movie "Carrie."
>
> We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that does
> not allow him to question its beliefs, so he finds outlet for his intellect in
> taking the safe way out--attacking the beliefs of other faiths:
>
GRaleigh345
>From: "ForWhatItsWorth" fw...@fwiw.com
>Date: 2/19/03 11:08 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <b30drg$1h99ng$1...@ID-146091.news.dfncis.de>
>
>
>"GRaleigh345" <grale...@cs.comQQQ> wrote in message
>news:20030219091435...@mb-mr.news.cs.com...
>> I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which
>is
>> the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
>> spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged
>to in
>> the movie "Carrie."
>>
>> We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that
>does
>> not allow him to question its beliefs,
>
>Dennis is a Mormon???
>
Close.
The GARB believes that virtually all Christian churches are "apostate." (Sound
familiar?) It also exercises strict control over what its members do, say,
wear, or believe. The GARB website also states that the GARB are henotheists,
i.e., they believe in the real existence of other gods, other than the Trinity.
The "other god" for the GARB is Satan.
Sounds like Mormonism with a slightly different spin.
Raleigh
GRaleigh345
wrote:
>
>These guys are f*in nuts! They make the LDS look like the RLDS, fer
>chrissakes.
Yep. The irony of it all is that I never heard of the GARB until one of their
brain-washed myrmidons, Dennis Kelvie, starting posting on ARM to tell
everybody that Mormonism is an evil cult. If he told us in the first post that
Billy Graham was an evil apostate cultist, we would have known exactly where he
was coming from.
Whenever I'd ask him about his religion, he'd say, "This is ARM! We're not
talking about *my* religion!" Now you know why. For crying out loud, paying
theatres to turn in bible students who commit the sinful act of going to *any*
movie! That is worse than BYU's reputed tactic of sending plants into gay
cruising places to see if BYU students would come on to them.
exmo
>
> >exmo ex...@freeatlast.com
>
> wrote:
> >
> >These guys are f*in nuts! They make the LDS look like the RLDS, fer
> >chrissakes.
>
> Yep. The irony of it all is that I never heard of the GARB until one of their
> brain-washed myrmidons, Dennis Kelvie, starting posting on ARM to tell
> everybody that Mormonism is an evil cult.
Well, duh.
> If he told us in the first post that
> Billy Graham was an evil apostate cultist, we would have known exactly where he
> was coming from.
I'm not fan of Graham. He thumps the same Bible as 'em all.
> Whenever I'd ask him about his religion, he'd say, "This is ARM! We're not
> talking about *my* religion!" Now you know why. For crying out loud, paying
> theatres to turn in bible students who commit the sinful act of going to *any*
> movie! That is worse than BYU's reputed tactic of sending plants into gay
> cruising places to see if BYU students would come on to them.
The thing is there are groups like the Amish who are just as, ummm,
puritanical as these culty guys, but they don't feel a necessity to spy
on each other like this. It seems to be more of a mutual understanding
-- there's more sincerity there.
I know someone who used to belong to a group called "The Brethren" or
The Brothers (aka "The Garbage People" for their habit of eating out of
dumpsters.) That was / is an extremely dictatorial group, led by some
joker called Jim Roberts. The members dress in robes (dresses for the
females), men must wear beards, and they are continually itinerant,
wandering from city to city. Usually they walk or hitchhike as they are
not permitted to own cars (I think bikes are o.k., or were at one
point.) Roberts is pretty smart too, he makes sure the small groups in
each city never know where any of the other groups are, to limit
communication between them. It's incredibly paranoid. Here's some info
in case you see any in your town:
http://members.tripod.com/~nfishel/index.html
learner
You posted:
>I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which is
>the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
>spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged to in
>the movie "Carrie."
No, that was the smithite religion, Raligh. She was a nut too.
>
>We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that does
>not allow him to question its beliefs, so he finds outlet for his intellect in
>taking the safe way out--attacking the beliefs of other faiths:
I snipped the crud below because it has no bearing on reality at all.
The picture it paints does not resemble GARB at all. It is obviously
the work of a wacko who would paint the same picture of the rlds, the
mormons, and anyone else his sick mind took a disliking to.
No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
BIBLE why that is so.
I am totally free in Jesus Christ, Raleigh. I'm sorry you chose to
dig out such a false and distorted view of GARB to post. I suppose I
could dig out the same kind of crap about the RLDS just as easily
(there have been disgruntled idiots leave your group too, I would
suppose), but I won't do that. It would not be honest.
Fred
GRaleigh345
(learner) writes:
>
>Hello Raleigh,
>
> You posted:
>>I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which is
>>the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
>>spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged to
>in
>>the movie "Carrie."
>No, that was the smithite religion, Raligh. She was a nut too.
>>
Actually, Dennis, or Fred, or whichever personality of yours is dominant this
week, Carrie White's mother wasn't LDS, or RLDS, because her religion taught
that sex is bad. That is one of the reasons that the LDS are condemned as a
"nonChristian" cult--we think that God wouldn't have invented sex if it was
nasty. Baptists, particularly fundamentalists, connect sex with original sin in
a way that makes sex dirty.
.
>>We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that
>does
>>not allow him to question its beliefs, so he finds outlet for his intellect
>in
>>taking the safe way out--attacking the beliefs of other faiths:
>
>I snipped the crud below because it has no bearing on reality at all.
>The picture it paints does not resemble GARB at all. It is obviously
>the work of a wacko who would paint the same picture of the rlds, the
>mormons, and anyone else his sick mind took a disliking to.
Actually, it is a discussion of life in the GARB denomination by a former
member. If you choose to take issue with his life history, write him about it,
not me.
>
>No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
>Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
>or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
>is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
>BIBLE why that is so.
>
>I am totally free in Jesus Christ, Raleigh. I'm sorry you chose to
>dig out such a false and distorted view of GARB to post. I suppose I
>could dig out the same kind of crap about the RLDS just as easily
Yes, but you don't do that. You did up crap about the LDS and then say it
has to do with the RLDS.
>(there have been disgruntled idiots leave your group too, I would
>suppose), but I won't do that. It would not be honest.
Apparently you either have a distorted view of what honesty is, or you have
no idea what your "Dennis" persona has been posting.
Raleigh
>
>Fred
exmo
> No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
> Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
> or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
> is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
> BIBLE why that is so.
Oh boy. Is that why there are so many competing splinter factions in the
wonderful world of Baptist-ism?
GRaleigh345
Baptists are proverbial schismatics. A slow-moving town that starts out with
1200 people and one Baptist church, in twenty years time, will end up with five
Baptist churches and 1203 people.
"Learner" himself is splintered. Some days he is Dennis Kelvie, and other
days he is Fred Learner. I lay that personality problem at the door of his
religion. After all, if Mormonism can make Mormon women terminally depressed,
it's obvious that Dennis' Calvinist pseudoChristianity can make him
schizophrenic.
Raleigh
learner
You posted:
>In article <3e552341...@news.velocitus.net>, lea...@felthammers.com
>(learner) writes:
>
>>
>>Hello Raleigh,
>>
>> You posted:
>>>I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which is
>>>the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
>>>spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged to
>>in
>>>the movie "Carrie."
>
>>No, that was the smithite religion, Raligh. She was a nut too.
>>>
>
> Actually, Dennis, or Fred, or whichever personality of yours is dominant this
>week, Carrie White's mother wasn't LDS, or RLDS, because her religion taught
>that sex is bad. That is one of the reasons that the LDS are condemned as a
>"nonChristian" cult--we think that God wouldn't have invented sex if it was
>nasty. Baptists, particularly fundamentalists, connect sex with original sin in
>a way that makes sex dirty.
Do you always lie like this, Raleigh? Did you forget to take your
medicine this morning?
No, Baptists don't connect sex with original sin at all. That was a
mormon doctrine (somewhat unoficial) that Adam and Eve must have
sinned by having sex in the garden of eden in order to procreate.
Mormon, Raleigh. Not Baptist. Smithite.
You lie a lot.
>
>>>We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that
>>does
>>>not allow him to question its beliefs, so he finds outlet for his intellect
>>in
>>>taking the safe way out--attacking the beliefs of other faiths:
>>
>>I snipped the crud below because it has no bearing on reality at all.
>>The picture it paints does not resemble GARB at all. It is obviously
>>the work of a wacko who would paint the same picture of the rlds, the
>>mormons, and anyone else his sick mind took a disliking to.
>
> Actually, it is a discussion of life in the GARB denomination by a former
>member. If you choose to take issue with his life history, write him about it,
>not me.
Yah, and I could probably find an ex-RLDS nut too and post it on the
ng and pretend that it was "true," and "the norm" too. But that
wouldn't be honest of me, now would it, Raleigh?
Just as your posting such crap and pretending it is true is not
honest.
>>
>>No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
>>Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
>>or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
>>is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
>>BIBLE why that is so.
>>
>>I am totally free in Jesus Christ, Raleigh. I'm sorry you chose to
>>dig out such a false and distorted view of GARB to post. I suppose I
>>could dig out the same kind of crap about the RLDS just as easily
>
> Yes, but you don't do that. You did up crap about the LDS and then say it
>has to do with the RLDS.
I point out things that joe smith DID teach (You can look it up in the
BofM, D&C, etc. I have pointed out his errors and heresies.
But I have never looked up wierdos and freaks and claimed they
represented the rlds. That would not be honest.
It was not honest of you, Raleigh.
>
>>(there have been disgruntled idiots leave your group too, I would
>>suppose), but I won't do that. It would not be honest.
>
> Apparently you either have a distorted view of what honesty is, or you have
>no idea what your "Dennis" persona has been posting.
>
My 'Dennis' personna is nothing more than my name, Raleigh. Fred,
learner, and other pseudonymns don't make me any less than normal, and
your lying about it only shows you to be shallow and dishonest.
Learner
learner
You posted:
We all have the ability to examine the scriptures for Truth. Some
folks come with some pre-existing ideas of how things should be,
others have different pre-existing ideas. Everybody has "stuff" of
one kind or another in their past to filter their understandings
through before coming to their latest understandings.
mormons are like that to. That is why there are about 156 different
groups that connect themselves to joe smith. The RLDS being one of
them.
Learner
learner
I'm going to let you have the last word (in other words, this is the
last response you will get from me for a while). You have dragged our
posting down to an all-time low by blatantly lying about Baptists and
about me. For me to continue to post to you would be like posting to
Steve Winters, a fruitless waste of time.
So go ahead, call me names, lie about me, and lie about Baptists once
more. You get the last shot, so go ahead.
Learner
learner
You posted:
>In article <3E556...@freeatlast.com>, exmo <ex...@freeatlast.com> writes:
>
>>learner wrote:
>>
>>> No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
>>> Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
>>> or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
>>> is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
>>> BIBLE why that is so.
>>
>>Oh boy. Is that why there are so many competing splinter factions in the
>>wonderful world of Baptist-ism?
>>
>
> Baptists are proverbial schismatics. A slow-moving town that starts out with
>1200 people and one Baptist church, in twenty years time, will end up with five
>Baptist churches and 1203 people.
>
> "Learner" himself is splintered. Some days he is Dennis Kelvie, and other
>days he is Fred Learner. I lay that personality problem at the door of his
>religion.
Raleigh, you are just a wacko. You whine about my pseudonym, learner.
I laugh at you and sign it "Fred" to get a rise out of you. And you
fell for it hard!
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
The wacko "personality problem" is yours, Raleigh. You cannot answer
for your smithite religion, so you attack my position of historical
Christianity with lies and fraud, representing another wacko who
claims to be a disenfranchised GARB ex-member to be "what GARB
churches teach."
You are a liar, Raleigh. You cannot defend smithism, so you lie.
>After all, if Mormonism can make Mormon women terminally depressed,
Can your religion do that, Raleigh? Hmmm. I have never made any such
claims. Are you trying to make up more junk that you will later CLAIM
I said?
I think you are falling into your pit of lies, false representations,
and trash, Raleigh. I pity you. If this is what your rlds religion
teaches you, it is no wonder it has splintered again, separating from
a bunch of itself called something like The Christian Community of
Christ.
What will you call your group next, raleigh?
Learner
exmo
>
> Hello exmo
> You posted:
> >learner wrote:
> >
> >> No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
> >> Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
> >> or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
> >> is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
> >> BIBLE why that is so.
> >
> >Oh boy. Is that why there are so many competing splinter factions in the
> >wonderful world of Baptist-ism?
>
> We all have the ability to examine the scriptures for Truth.
But not to _find_ it, apparently.
> Some
> folks come with some pre-existing ideas of how things should be,
> others have different pre-existing ideas. Everybody has "stuff" of
> one kind or another in their past to filter their understandings
> through before coming to their latest understandings.
Exactly, which is why it is impossible to talk of finding a single
"truth" in scriptures.
GRaleigh345
(learner) writes:
>We all have the ability to examine the scriptures for Truth. Some
>folks come with some pre-existing ideas of how things should be,
>others have different pre-existing ideas. Everybody has "stuff" of
>one kind or another in their past to filter their understandings
>through before coming to their latest understandings.
Did you take this double-talk off the Community of Christ website? Sounds
like liberal apostate stuff to me. Don't speak of it in Baptist Sunday school.
>
>mormons are like that too. That is why there are about 156 different
>groups that connect themselves to joe smith. The RLDS being one of
>them.
>
How many different species of Baptist are there? Does splintering every
time one finds a "different understanding" of the Bible than one's fellow
Baptists lead to truth?
In fact you have hit the nail on the head. Since protestantism came up
with the idea that every believer can read and interpret the Bible for himself,
there has been an explosion of splintering and resplintering denominations,
cults, and new religions. If Bob Baptist reads the book of James, decides that
all other Baptists are apostate (other denominations being apostate is already
a foregone conclusion for Baptists), and starts the Garb-o-Secrecy Baptist
Church, he is just doing what God wants, but if Joseph Smith reads the book of
James and decides that all Baptists including Bob Baptist are apostate, then
Joseph is wrong.
GRaleigh345
(learner) writes:
Once more? Actually, when I have time, I'm going to go over to the GARB
newsgroup (if there is such a thing), and continue posting. I'll tell them that
one of their members, Dennis Kelvie, came to ARM to show his Baptist fellowship
and brotherhood and that I have come to return the favor.
GRaleigh345
(learner) writes:
>Hello grale...@cs.comQQQ (GRaleigh345),
> You posted:
>>In article <3E556...@freeatlast.com>, exmo <ex...@freeatlast.com> writes:
>>>Oh boy. Is that why there are so many competing splinter factions in the
>>>wonderful world of Baptist-ism?
>>>
>>
>> Baptists are proverbial schismatics. A slow-moving town that starts out
>with
>>1200 people and one Baptist church, in twenty years time, will end up with
>five
>>Baptist churches and 1203 people.
>>
>> "Learner" himself is splintered. Some days he is Dennis Kelvie, and other
>>days he is Fred Learner. I lay that personality problem at the door of his
>>religion.
>
>Raleigh, you are just a wacko. You whine about my pseudonym, learner.
>I laugh at you and sign it "Fred" to get a rise out of you. And you
>fell for it hard!
>
>Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Fell for it? Hardly. We all knew who you were, even if you didn't. And
merely adopting a pseudonym won't conceal your identity from any lurkers. All
your previous posts are still around.
>
>The wacko "personality problem" is yours, Raleigh. You cannot answer
>for your smithite religion, so you attack my position of historical
>Christianity with lies and fraud, representing another wacko who
>claims to be a disenfranchised GARB ex-member to be "what GARB
>churches teach."
No. You are unhappy with your own religion, Dennis, so you went to the
newsgroup of another religion which you thought could be attacked with impunity
so that you could continue in your own. You came to us, remember. When we tried
to reason with you and show you you were just being an asshole, you refused to
believe it. So I did some research to find out what your denomination believes.
It wasn't easy, because for months you dodged and refused even to tell us what
it was.
The GARB Baptists believe that Satan is a god. I didn't say it, they did.
You will have to live with that Dennis. Criticizing Mormonism isn't going to
change that one bit, nor is calling me a liar going to change the truth.
>
>You are a liar, Raleigh. You cannot defend smithism, so you lie.
I do not see any defense of the GARB church here. You just decide to
stonewall it and attack me--which you were doing even before I posted the info
about GARB.
>
>>After all, if Mormonism can make Mormon women terminally depressed,
>
>Can your religion do that, Raleigh? Hmmm. I have never made any such
>claims. Are you trying to make up more junk that you will later CLAIM
>I said?
>
>I think you are falling into your pit of lies, false representations,
>and trash, Raleigh. I pity you. If this is what your rlds religion
>teaches you, it is no wonder it has splintered again, separating from
>a bunch of itself called something like The Christian Community of
>Christ.
I could say the same about the GARB, a tiny group of Baptists who decided
that their mainline denomination was "apostate" and couldn't find any
nonapostate Baptist to join. So, faced with a choice between admitting that the
Roman Catholic Church may have been right about Baptists being heretics, or
starting their own splinter group, guess what they did?
>
>What will you call your group next, raleigh?
>
>Learner
>
I don't know. I'm sure you will find some nasty names to call us. After
all, you belong to a polytheistic nonChristian cult, so I expect to see some
good ones.
The biggest lie you have told is that you are going to let me "have the last
word." You have no intention of ceasing to post crap on ARM. And you will prove
it in a matter of days.
Meanwhile I will be looking for the GARB ng, so that I can point out to the
world that y'all believe that Satan is a "god." Some topics under consideration
are "GARB Baptists are blind," "The Great Apostasy," "Becoming a god--GARB
Baptists say Satan was right," "Stick to the Bible--lies of the GARB exposed,"
"GARB Baptist 'Authority,'" "Why Join a Mormon Church When Baptists Can Lie
Too?" "Are GARB Baptists Christian Polytheists?" "The GARB Story--the apostasy
of Christianity."
GRaleigh345
(learner) writes:
>>>
>>> You posted:
>>>>I just thought y'all would like to read more about the GARB church, which
>is
>>>>the fountainhead of the vitriol that Dennis Kelvie, aka "Learner" has been
>>>>spouting. Apparently this is the cult that Carrie White's mother belonged
>to
>>>in
>>>>the movie "Carrie."
>>
>>>No, that was the smithite religion, Raligh. She was a nut too.
>>>>
>>
>> Actually, Dennis, or Fred, or whichever personality of yours is dominant
>this
>>week, Carrie White's mother wasn't LDS, or RLDS, because her religion taught
>>that sex is bad. That is one of the reasons that the LDS are condemned as a
>>"nonChristian" cult--we think that God wouldn't have invented sex if it was
>>nasty. Baptists, particularly fundamentalists, connect sex with original sin
>in
>>a way that makes sex dirty.
>
>Do you always lie like this, Raleigh? Did you forget to take your
>medicine this morning?
Lying? You deny that you post both as "Learner" and as "Dennis Kelvie." I
forget who did this, but less than 3 weeks ago, someone punched your
boilerplate vitriol into Google and pulled up the almost identical post from
Dennis Kelvie.
>
>No, Baptists don't connect sex with original sin at all. That was a
>mormon doctrine (somewhat unoficial) that Adam and Eve must have
>sinned by having sex in the garden of eden in order to procreate.
>
>Mormon, Raleigh. Not Baptist. Smithite.
>
>You lie a lot.
Do I?
>>
>>>>We have to feel sorry for Dennis. He belongs to a mind-control cult that
>>>does
>>>>not allow him to question its beliefs, so he finds outlet for his
>intellect
>>>in
>>>>taking the safe way out--attacking the beliefs of other faiths:
>>>
>>>I snipped the crud below because it has no bearing on reality at all.
>>>The picture it paints does not resemble GARB at all. It is obviously
>>>the work of a wacko who would paint the same picture of the rlds, the
>>>mormons, and anyone else his sick mind took a disliking to.
>>
>> Actually, it is a discussion of life in the GARB denomination by a former
>>member. If you choose to take issue with his life history, write him about
>it,
>>not me.
>
>Yah, and I could probably find an ex-RLDS nut too and post it on the
>ng and pretend that it was "true," and "the norm" too. But that
>wouldn't be honest of me, now would it, Raleigh?
>Just as your posting such crap and pretending it is true is not
>honest.
That is exactly where antiMormons get the crap that you post, Dennis--from
former members.
>>>
>>>No, the GARB is not a "mind-control cult" any more than yours is,
>>>Raleigh. If I disagree with something my pastor says from the pulpit
>>>or anywhere else I am totally free to discuss it with him, and if he
>>>is wrong, he will right it, if I am wrong, he will show me in the
>>>BIBLE why that is so.
>>>
>>>I am totally free in Jesus Christ, Raleigh. I'm sorry you chose to
>>>dig out such a false and distorted view of GARB to post. I suppose I
>>>could dig out the same kind of crap about the RLDS just as easily
I found what I posted on the GARB website. You are welcome to look and see
if the RLDS website contains the stuff you post.
>>
>> Yes, but you don't do that. You did up crap about the LDS and then say it
>>has to do with the RLDS.
>
>I point out things that joe smith DID teach (You can look it up in the
>BofM, D&C, etc. I have pointed out his errors and heresies.
>
>But I have never looked up wierdos and freaks and claimed they
>represented the rlds. That would not be honest.
O.K. Let's talk about honesty. How many different screen names do you use
to post to ARM?
>
>It was not honest of you, Raleigh.
>>
>>>(there have been disgruntled idiots leave your group too, I would
>>>suppose), but I won't do that. It would not be honest.
>>
>> Apparently you either have a distorted view of what honesty is, or you
>have
>>no idea what your "Dennis" persona has been posting.
>>
>My 'Dennis' personna is nothing more than my name, Raleigh. Fred,
>learner, and other pseudonymns don't make me any less than normal, and
>your lying about it only shows you to be shallow and dishonest.
Hardly. Had you said something about it six months ago, it would have
been normal.
Lee Paulson
news:3e57bf5c...@news.velocitus.net...
> Hello Raleigh,
>
snip
>
> So go ahead, call me names, lie about me, and lie about Baptists once
> more. You get the last shot, so go ahead.
>
> Learner
>
There are Baptists and there are Baptists. Most Baptist churches are
independent of every other, and within any congregation, each individual is
responsible for his or her own religious convictions.
One of the kindest, most Christian (maybe the most Christian), sincerest men
I know is a Baptist preacher. I like him despite his religious persuasion.
He was immensely kind to me when I was not particularly kind to him (I don't
mean I was vicious, just indifferent); he was genuinely wonderful in
practical and spiritual ways to my grandmother, even though she wasn't a
Baptist.
That said, one of the nastiest people I know is a Baptist of the sort that
makes me glad I'm an atheist.
Regards,
Lee, The James, uM, and GW
ForWhatItsWorth
"Lee Paulson" <lrpa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b3ip9g$1miqvd$1...@ID-146277.news.dfncis.de...
Red Davis is a Baptist?
Lee Paulson
news:b3ipk9$1md4kg$1...@ID-146091.news.dfncis.de...
--
Regards,
Lee, The James, uM & GW