WHY CULTS ARE SO DANGEROUS.
Anti-Mormon
About This "Mormonism" Thing
by Ernest Partridge / December 19th, 2007
When Willard "Mitt" Romney announced his intention to run for the
Presidency of the United States, one might suppose that there was joy
in Salt Lake City among the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day Saints.
I suspect that by now those leaders may be having some second
thoughts.
For while it was a good thing for the American public to learn about
the Mormon faith, Church leaders are now discovering that it is
possible to have too much of a good thing.
The thirteen Articles of Faith of the Mormon religion enumerate a set
of beliefs, some of which are quite consistent with traditional
Christianity, and others which, while unique to Mormonism (e.g., the
Book of Mormon), are not outlandish or immediately offensive to most
ordinary Christians. (The Articles of Faith were written by the Mormon
founder, Joseph Smith, to a Chicago publisher, John Wentworth, in
1842). The Articles say nothing about God once being a mortal human
and being one among many Gods, about the brotherhood of Jesus and
Satan, about God inhabiting a planet called "Kolob," or about the
"magic underwear" that devout Mormons are required to wear, etc. Nor
are you likely to hear about such things from the Mormon missionaries
that might appear at your front door.
However, it now seems naive to have supposed that these and other
bizarre Mormon doctrines would not be brought to light by Mitt
Romney's political rivals.
Many faithful Mormons are surprised at the astonishment and derision
that some LDS beliefs provoke among the general public. This surprise
is likely due to the simple and universal fact that beliefs that are
taught in childhood and shared in a community of believers are
regarded by the faithful as "obvious" and "ordinary," while at the
same time those same beliefs are considered, "from the outside," to be
weird and outlandish.
I can testify to this fact, for I have experienced Mormon doctrine
from both the inside and the outside. From childhood, through high
school, I shared Mitt Romney's faith in the Mormon religion. Then that
faith totally vanished during my freshman year in college - at Brigham
Young University, of all places!
MORMONISM AND ME
If I might be permitted a few autobiographical remarks, this is how it
happened.
My high school education was outstanding. I was among a few students
selected to attend a "demonstration" school attached to a state
teachers' college, where we were taught by college professors. There I
acquired a precociously secular, scientific, and scholarly perspective
on human history and institutions. At the same time, my parents (both
graduates of BYU and both post-graduates of Columbia University) saw
to it that my two brothers and I regularly attended LDS Sunday
services. They accepted the conventional view that "Sunday School" was
essential to a child's moral development -- a view that I have since
come to seriously doubt.
Accordingly, during my adolescence, I carried about in my head, a
bifurcated mind. There was "the weekday mind" of ancient dinosaurs, of
evolution, of American Indians as migrants from Asia, and above all,
of skepticism, scientific discipline and critical thought. Then there
was "the Sunday mind" of the Creation in 4004 BC, of the Garden of
Eden and Noah's flood, of the Indians as migrant Israelites (the
"Lamanites"), and of faith trumping "man's reason" -- faith: "the
substance of things hoped-for, the evidence of things not
seen." (Hebrews, 11:1). I somehow managed the alternation of mind-sets
from weekdays to weekends to weekdays again, without undue strain.
But at BYU the shifting of mind-sets from classroom to classroom to
library to study hall proved to be untenable. At the end of my
sophomore year, I transferred to the University of Utah and majored in
Philosophy. Courses in geology, anthropology, new-world archeology,
etc., pounded the final nails into the coffin of my childhood faith.
In the words of the apostle Paul: "when I was a child, ... I thought as
a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things." (I
Corinthians, 13:11) In my mind, the Latter-Day Saints, formerly "us,"
became "them," and since then I have never looked back. (Accounts of
this "de-conversion" may be found in my unpublished "A Peculiar
People" and "Religion and the Schools: A Dialog").
Today, the polygamous man-God of Kolob, the magic underwear, the
Hebrew-Indians, the translating peep-stones and the golden plates, the
farm boy and the angel, "the curse of Cain" upon all people with any
African ancestors, baptism for the dead (the Creator of the earth and
all human souls being incapable of saving those souls all by himself),
etc. -- all this and more seem as bizarre to me as they do to most non-
Mormons. (The essential tenets of Mormon theology are presented in
this remarkable cartoon narrative of unknown origin. It is generally
accurate, although there are a few identifiable minor errors. For
example, Mormons do not believe that God and Mrs. God came to earth as
Adam and Eve).
But equally bizarre to me is the Catholic dogma of transubstantiation
(the ritual cannibalism of God's body), the argument that birth
control is contrary to "natural law," the protestant fundamentalist
beliefs in biblical literalism, young-earth creationism, and the
doctrine of "the rapture," the orthodox Jewish ban against eating
shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics, and the Islamic belief that the
Angel Gabriel handed the Koran to Mohammed. Much worse is the plain
immorality of many traditional religious beliefs. These include the
belief that the genocide, murder and mayhem chronicled in the Old
Testament were condoned and even commanded by the Lord God, that God
had ordered that disobedient children, blasphemers, unchaste young
women (but not men), and those who toil on the Sabbath be put to
death, and that a loving God created billions of souls, all but a few
thousand of whom He has condemned and will condemn to eternal
damnation and torment. Among those condemned are authentic "secular"
saints and martyrs such as Socrates, Marcus Aurelius, Galileo,
Voltaire, Gandhi, Jefferson, Sakharov, who somehow failed in their
lifetimes to agree with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and to accept
Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.
Woody Brison
"WHY CULTS ARE SO DANGEROUS."
But there is not a hint of any danger in the article.
Not to worry. Lance's mind is safe somewhere while
his fingers patrol the antimormon trail.
But we can examine what he's copied and pasted here
and have some fun.
> How cults turn people into atheists
> About This "Mormonism" Thing
> by Ernest Partridge / December 19th, 2007
> When Willard "Mitt" Romney announced his intention to run for the
> Presidency of the United States, one might suppose that there was joy
> in Salt Lake City among the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of
> Latter-Day Saints.
> I suspect that by now those leaders may be having some second
> thoughts.
I imagine not. Jesus commissioned them to give the
Gospel to everyone, this increases the exposure.
> For while it was a good thing for the American public to learn about
> the Mormon faith, Church leaders are now discovering that it is
> possible to have too much of a good thing.
Call for references. Have any leaders of the Church
hinted at this. The author doesn't provide any quotes
to that effect. And he doesn't claim to be a mind-
reader or have any revelations. It's just idle
wordsmithing. I was taught this same technique in
Creative Writing in high school. "Make up something
swishy for the opening paragraph" the textbook said.
> The thirteen Articles of Faith of the Mormon religion enumerate a set
> of beliefs, some of which are quite consistent with traditional
> Christianity, and others which, while unique to Mormonism (e.g., the
> Book of Mormon), are not outlandish or immediately offensive to most
> ordinary Christians. (The Articles of Faith were written by the Mormon
> founder, Joseph Smith, to a Chicago publisher, John Wentworth, in
> 1842).
Correct so far. Insightful, in fact.
>... The Articles say nothing about God once being a mortal human
> and being one among many Gods, about the brotherhood of Jesus and
> Satan, about God inhabiting a planet called "Kolob," or about the
> "magic underwear" that devout Mormons are required to wear, etc. Nor
> are you likely to hear about such things from the Mormon missionaries
> that might appear at your front door.
> However, it now seems naive to have supposed that these and other
> bizarre Mormon doctrines would not be brought to light by Mitt
> Romney's political rivals.
Who supposed this? It's axiomatic that whenever a step
forward is accomplished by the powers of heaven, the devil
comes out to rip around, swear a blue streak, and try to
find some way to get one of his saps to shovel crud on it.
> Many faithful Mormons are surprised at the astonishment and derision
> that some LDS beliefs provoke among the general public.
Kind of a wishy-washy statement, no? Which faithful
Mormons are really surprised? What beliefs are they
that cause "astonishment and derision"? Our belief in
God, or in the cleansing power of repentance? I really
don't see any such reaction in the general public.
>... This surprise
> is likely due to the simple and universal fact that beliefs that are
> taught in childhood and shared in a community of believers are
> regarded by the faithful as "obvious" and "ordinary," while at the
> same time those same beliefs are considered, "from the outside," to be
> weird and outlandish.
Not following you here, Ernest.
> I can testify to this fact, for I have experienced Mormon doctrine
> from both the inside and the outside. From childhood, through high
> school, I shared Mitt Romney's faith in the Mormon religion. Then that
> faith totally vanished during my freshman year in college - at Brigham
> Young University, of all places!
I find it hard to believe that you would lose your
faith because of Brigham Young University. I think
this is a false statement.
> MORMONISM AND ME
> If I might be permitted a few autobiographical remarks, this is how it
> happened.
> My high school education was outstanding. I was among a few students
> selected to attend a "demonstration" school attached to a state
> teachers' college, where we were taught by college professors. There I
> acquired a precociously secular, scientific, and scholarly perspective
> on human history and institutions.
Sounds like a good argument that college professors who
propose to teach little kids should be screened.
>... At the same time, my parents (both
> graduates of BYU and both post-graduates of Columbia University) saw
> to it that my two brothers and I regularly attended LDS Sunday
> services. They accepted the conventional view that "Sunday School" was
> essential to a child's moral development -- a view that I have since
> come to seriously doubt.
Well, Ernest, you're flat wrong. What more can I say?
I know it's so. Been there, done it, seen it, know it.
> Accordingly, during my adolescence, I carried about in my head, a
> bifurcated mind. There was "the weekday mind" of ancient dinosaurs, of
> evolution, of American Indians as migrants from Asia, and above all,
> of skepticism, scientific discipline and critical thought. Then there
> was "the Sunday mind" of the Creation in 4004 BC,
I thought you said you had faith in the Mormon religion.
The creation date of 4004 BC is not part of that religion.
>... of the Garden of
> Eden and Noah's flood, of the Indians as migrant Israelites (the
> "Lamanites"), and of faith trumping "man's reason" -- faith: "the
> substance of things hoped-for, the evidence of things not
> seen." (Hebrews, 11:1). I somehow managed the alternation of mind-sets
> from weekdays to weekends to weekdays again, without undue strain.
> But at BYU the shifting of mind-sets from classroom to classroom to
> library to study hall proved to be untenable.
Sounds untenable. What mental shifting would one
need to do from classroom to classroom at BYU, other
than shifting from one subject to another like all
students do at every school in the world?
>... At the end of my
> sophomore year, I transferred to the University of Utah and majored in
> Philosophy. Courses in geology, anthropology, new-world archeology,
> etc., pounded the final nails into the coffin of my childhood faith.
So, I was right; Ernest, you said you lost your faith
at BYU. But now you say you actually lost it at the U
of U. Why lie?
> In the words of the apostle Paul: "when I was a child, ... I thought as
> a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things." (I
> Corinthians, 13:11) In my mind, the Latter-Day Saints, formerly "us,"
> became "them," and since then I have never looked back. (Accounts of
> this "de-conversion" may be found in my unpublished "A Peculiar
> People" and "Religion and the Schools: A Dialog").
Don't know 'em. Doubt that many people do. What's the
thrill about someone losing their way?
> Today, the polygamous man-God of Kolob, the magic underwear, the
> Hebrew-Indians, the translating peep-stones and the golden plates, the
> farm boy and the angel, "the curse of Cain" upon all people with any
> African ancestors, baptism for the dead (the Creator of the earth and
> all human souls being incapable of saving those souls all by himself),
> etc. -- all this and more seem as bizarre to me as they do to most non-
> Mormons.
You just got done telling us that "beliefs ... are
considered, "from the outside," to be weird and
outlandish." Why, we wonder, is that so? Isaiah and
Neal Maxwell give the answer.
Isaiah 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall
come to understanding, and they that murmured shall
learn doctrine.
"I am struck more and more brothers and sisters, that
when I hear murmuring from time to time in the Church,
with the prophecy that says the day will come when
those who murmur shall learn doctrine. This prophecy
suggests that doctrinal illiteracy is a present cause
of murmuring. Most of those I know who murmur do not
know the doctrines of the kingdom." - Neal A. Maxwell,
BYU devotional 1986/03/30
It's almost a slam dunk here that this is Ernest's problem:
he doesn't know the doctrine. LDS doctrine makes good
sense. But what Ernest has is a distorted version of it
in his head. And what he's telling us is this: he can't
believe that distorted version in his head. I don't
blame him. Some items:
- We LDS don't have "magic underwear".
- The curse of Cain has been mostly lifted. The dark skin
is still present, but the slavery has been broken and the
priesthood has been granted. Nor did it ever apply to
everyone with African ancestors.
- There were no "translating peep-stones".
- The existence of the golden plates is a matter of
record, incontestable.
>... (The essential tenets of Mormon theology are presented in
> this remarkable cartoon narrative of unknown origin. It is generally
> accurate, although there are a few identifiable minor errors. For
> example, Mormons do not believe that God and Mrs. God came to earth as
> Adam and Eve).
What cartoon. I see no cartoon, other than the author's
distortions of LDS doctrine and other matters here.
> But equally bizarre to me is the Catholic dogma of transubstantiation
<skip Ernest's doubts about other religions, not of any
concern to us here>
Old missionaries like myself know that grand old troopers
such as B.H.Roberts, LeGrande Richards, and ___________
used the phrase, "educated beyond his intelligence" to
refer to someone like this. I don't think this is right.
What's going on here is that the professors have gathered
a lot of learning but have not organized it well. If you
organize it well, ei. according to a certain paradigm, it
all fits together, including the good Bishop's date of 4004
BC.
That paradigm is based on a couple of basic principles.
Some principles are more fundamental than others. I believe
that the most fundamental is "the truth". Truth is to
understand your environment. Undertand it correctly. As
you navigate thru life, you should check your navigation
occasionally. If you hear this grinding sound of your
hull on the rocks, it means not that those rocks are in
the wrong place but that YOU are in the wrong place.
Stuff like that. There are a lot of navigation tricks
that are good ones, and some that are bogus. To navigate
well means to sort them out and use the good ones.
It's absolutely absurd to reject a religion based on a
false idea of what it teaches. If you want to know what
the LDS religion is about, which of these two ways would
work better:
- get your information from political consultants who
wish to make the religion look bad so their candidate
can beat Mitt
- get your information from those who know and who are
motivated to tell the truth?
If you choose the second, if you want to know what we
teach, I suggest you start here:
http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-1,00.html
This is the class manual for the Gospel Essentials class
taught in LDS Sunday Schools for adults all over the
world. This is what we believe. It has been written by
us, checked by us, and published by us. Go by this, not
by some wierd distortion by folks like Ernest's professors
at the U of U.
The science can be resolved. If you learn what you are
trying to resolve it with.
Wood
bob young
Anti-Mormon wrote:
> How cults turn people into atheists
Soory I must corrct that.
Common sense causes people to be atheists
Woody Brison
> > I can testify to this fact, for I have experienced Mormon doctrine
> > from both the inside and the outside. From childhood, through high
> > school, I shared Mitt Romney's faith in the Mormon religion. Then that
> > faith totally vanished during my freshman year in college - at Brigham
> > Young University, of all places!
And I posted,
> I find it hard to believe that you would lose your
> faith because of Brigham Young University. I think
> this is a false statement.
...
> > But at BYU the shifting of mind-sets from classroom to classroom to
> > library to study hall proved to be untenable.
>
> Sounds untenable. What mental shifting would one
> need to do from classroom to classroom at BYU, other
> than shifting from one subject to another like all
> students do at every school in the world?
Ernest emailed me to explain that he was shifting here
"from class to class" meaning from required religion
classes to science classes.
> >... At the end of my
> > sophomore year, I transferred to the University of Utah and majored in
> > Philosophy. Courses in geology, anthropology, new-world archeology,
> > etc., pounded the final nails into the coffin of my childhood faith.
>
> So, I was right; Ernest, you said you lost your faith
> at BYU. But now you say you actually lost it at the U
> of U. Why lie?
Ernest states that the UofU experience was only the last
small fraction of his deconversion experience. I don't
know what all this implies, but I stand corrected, and
apologize for the question.
Ernest declined to discuss the other points I raised.
Wood