REFUTING A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[AGAINST GODLESS SOCIALISM]

JW's give due recognition to Jesus, and also to God, who created
Jesus. Col 1:15,

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all
creation." (NASB)

Back to square one as I have already covered Colossians 1:15.
"Firstborn" simply means the preeminent one. For example, God Himself
defines "firstborn" as preeminent at Psalm 89:27. Since Jesus Christ
does not have the preeminence in everything for Jehovah's Witnesses,
babylon watchtower had to redefine the word. In context, at Colossians
1:15 "firstborn" means preeminent. Colossians 1:18.


They follow Jesus' words at Mt 4:10,

"Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship
the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"" (NIV)

According to babylon watchtower all early Christians were wrong.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants
—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by
His angel to His servant John, 2who bore witness to the word of God,
and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, toall things that he saw.
3Blessed is he who reads and those who heart he words of this
prophecy, and keep those things which arewritten in it; for the time
is near.
Revelation 1:1-3.

Do you believe Jesus' words here?

Yes I do and obviously you can't make the connection with serving
Jesus Christ and making Him preeminent in your life. The Triunity of
God is obvious and apparent from numerous Scriptures.

James
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who doesnot believe
is condemned already, because he has not believed inthe name of the
only begotten Son of God.
John 3:18.
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org

www.truthandgrace.com

[AGAINST GODLESS SOCIALISM]

> JW's give due recognition to Jesus, and also to God, who created
> Jesus. Col 1:15,
>
> "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all
> creation."
> (NASB)
>
> Back to square one as I have already covered Colossians 1:15.
> "Firstborn" simply means the preeminent one. For example, God
> Himself defines "firstborn" as preeminent at Psalm 89:27. Since
> Jesus Christ does not have the preeminence in everything for
> Jehovah's Witnesses, babylon watchtower had to redefine the
> word. In context, at Colossians 1:15 "firstborn" means preeminent.

Not according to the context. Let's look at verses 15 and 16
together.

"15. And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all
creation.
16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on
earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers
or authorities all things have been created by Him and for
Him." (NASB)

Babylon watchtower is wrong and you left our verses 17 and 18 that
establishes the context of the paragraph. Of course verse 18 is the
punchline for the paragraph.

And He is before all things, and inHim all things consist. 18And He is
the head of the body, thechurch, who is the beginning, the firstborn
from the dead, that in allthings He may have the preeminence.

The meaning of "first-born" (Greek- prototokos) here is definately
being appled to birth order. Verse 16 talks about the other 'births'
or things created. Jesus was the first, then through him the rest of
creation came into existence.

"Firstborn" is used as definition for preeminence. Colossians 1:18 in
context.

Also "Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible" defines prototokos
as:

"first-begotten
firstborn"

Have you never read in Scripture where the Apostle Paul defined the
word begotten?????? Apparently not.

God hasfulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up
Jesus. Asit is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’ ◙
34And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return
tocorruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ ◙
35Therefore He also says in another Psalm:
‘You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’ ◙

Acts 13:33-35.

> Colossians 1:18.
>
>
> They follow Jesus' words at Mt 4:10,
>
> "Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written:
> 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"" (NIV)

Then why does it say here at Mt 4:10 to worship and serve God ONLY?
If Jesus is God, shouldn't Jesus be included in the worship?

Have you never read in Scripture the Father and Son being worshipped
together?????

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth andunder the
earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, Iheard
saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ◙ ever!”

Revelation 5:13

James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org

>
> According to babylon watchtower all early Christians were wrong.
>
> The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His

> servants-things which

[AGAINST GODLESS SOCIALISM]

>JW's go by the Greek reference words. Yes there can be multiple definitions of various Greek and Hebrew words. The context and other related scriptures help to define the word used. At Col 1:15 and 16 the context is clearly THINGS CREATED, of which Jesus was the first. The post-Biblical Trinity doctrine is quite wrong.

Babylon watchtower cult members will never be able to think in context
but can only rip verses out of the context. Above Colossians 1:18 is
the summation verse that simply says that Jesus Christ must be "first-
place" in your life in a glorification manner not a put-down cult
manner.

Here are a few verses from Hebrews about Jesus Christ being God and
not babylon watchtower's Michael the arch-angel.

For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”? ◙
And again:
“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”? ◙
6But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.” ◙
7And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.” ◙
8But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Hebrews 1:5-9

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Hebrews 13:8

>God was never dead, but Jesus was, and remained dead for 3 days. Ps 90:2,

Babylon watchtower does not recognize the dual nature of Jesus Christ
being true man and true God. The humanity of Christ died for the sins
of the world. After the death of the body of Christ He proclaimed the
salvation of mankind through Himself.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that
He might bring ◙ us to God (the Father), being put to death in the
flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went andpreached
to the spirits in prison,
1 Peter 3:18-19

>"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)

Thus Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of salvation for mankind
or the Savior of mankind. But a little comparison of O.T. verses with
N.T. revelation should drop the scales from non-believer spiritual
eyes.

“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.
Isaiah 43:10-11

Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring
you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11For there
isborn to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ
the Lord.
Luke 2:10-11

>How do you explain that if Jesus is co-equal to God according to the post-Biblical Trinity doctrine?

It seems that you must be blind to all the Bible verses that I throw
at you.


>Vs 14 is where the controversy sets in. Some Bibles say "worshipped:

Strongs Concordance defines Strong's Ref. # 4352

Romanized proskuneo
Pronounced pros-koo-neh'-o

from GSN4314 and a probable derivative of GSN2965 (meaning to kiss,
like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e.
(literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence
to, adore):

Thus the Greek word here can have the definition of "do reverence to,
adore):" not just worship. It would depend upon the context and other
related Scriptures.

Again, if Jesus is to be worshipped, why didn't he tell Satan that
when being tempted in the wilderness? Jesus said this at Mat 4:9-10.
Yes, notice about God, Jesus says "him only". Thus NO OTHER person is
to be worshipped. And Jesus showed here that would include him.

James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org

Obviously you will be bowing your knee to Jesus Christ eventually in
judgment rather than now in love and adoration.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in
the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the formof a bondservant,
and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a
man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death,
even the death of the cross.9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him
and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name
of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on
earth,and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:5-11

www.truthandgrace.com

[curtjester1]

On May 30, 7:16 pm, AGAINST GODLESS SOCIALISM <mormoni...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> JW's give due recognition to Jesus, and also to God, who created
> Jesus. Col 1:15,
>
> "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all
> creation." (NASB)
>
> Back to square one as I have already covered Colossians 1:15.
> "Firstborn" simply means the preeminent one. For example, God Himself
> defines "firstborn" as preeminent at Psalm 89:27. Since Jesus Christ
> does not have the preeminence in everything for Jehovah's Witnesses,
> babylon watchtower had to redefine the word. In context, at Colossians
> 1:15 "firstborn" means preeminent. Colossians 1:18.
>

Why not take it as any human would take the translation of
"firstborn" If you have a firstborn child, it something you and your
wife created, and it is a separate entity. If God was going to be
something besides himself, wouldn't his 'making' be whatever it was,
"a firstborn". If it wasn't Jesus, then that type of firstborn no
doubt would be an angel.

If you take :Proverbs 8: 22-35, clearly ones can see that it is
speaking about Jesus, as the one finding me will find life.etc, etc.
But it tells how Jesus was created. He was "brought forth" as with
labor pains, the 'earliest of his (God's) achievements from long
ago." This clearly shows how Jesus came from being non-existent to
existent. One can read more extensively on this subject as really
many Bible translators and trinitarians even believe this to be s


http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/heb-18.html

> They follow Jesus' words at Mt 4:10,
>
> "Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship
> the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"" (NIV)
>

And why don't they put in the correct translation of Jehovah your God?

> According to babylon watchtower all early Christians were wrong.
>

Did not Jesus teach him that name? Matt. 6: 9,10 and John 17:6, 26

> The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants

If Jesus were God, wouldn't he have the revelation, and not have to
have it given to him?!

> —things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by
> His angel to His servant John, 2who bore witness to the word of God,
> and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, toall things that he saw.
> 3Blessed is he who reads and those who heart he words of this
> prophecy, and keep those things which arewritten in it; for the time
> is near.
> Revelation 1:1-3.
>
> Do you believe Jesus' words here?
>

Yes!!!

> Yes I do and obviously you can't make the connection with serving
> Jesus Christ and making Him preeminent in your life. The Triunity of
> God is obvious and apparent from numerous Scriptures.
>

Why make the statment serving when when one can just follow one, and
worship (the other) HIS God? Rev. 1:5,6, Rev. 3:12

CJ