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AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ

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The Wisdom Fund

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Oct 13, 2003, 3:44:01 PM10/13/03
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http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/0422-Letter.html

April 23, 2003

AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ

Assalamu alaikum!

I cannot begin to imagine your pain and suffering. You
lost hundreds of thousands of your loved ones during the
war with Iran, the U.S. backed embargo following the
Gulf War of 1991, and the recent "shock and awe" visited
upon you by my country -- you neither attacked us, nor
did you threaten us.

During this "shock and awe" you were subjected to a
destructive power hundreds of times greater than that
which brought down the World Trade Center, you lost many
more than were killed in the WTC attack, many more of
you will die as a result of war-related injuries and
illnesses, and much of your cultural heritage -- indeed
the world's heritage -- has been destroyed.

And our troops may also suffer. Nearly 199,000 veterans
-- or more than one in four -- who served in the Gulf
War from August 1990 to July 1991 have filed disability
claims, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs.

We said that we came to "liberate" you, and we kept our
promise. We liberated you from the brutal regime of
Saddam Hussein. What we didn't say is that we also came
to liberate you from your assets. Now our "experts" will
attempt to entice you with the benefits of restructuring
and privatization.

As an international consultant myself, may I suggest
that you avoid rushing into long-term contracts, and do
not restructure or privatize your national industries
while you are rebuilding your country. "For the last
twenty years the United States has been promoting
throughout the non-Western world raw, laissez-faire
capitalism -- a form of markets that the West abandoned
long ago. . . . It is striking to note that at no point
in history did any Western nation ever implement
laissez-faire capitalism and overnight universal
suffrage at the same time -- the precise formula of free
market democracy currently being pressed on developing
countries around the world," says Yale professor Amy
Chua, in "The World on Fire."

Take time to examine the experiences of Saudi Arabia
and Russia. Despite all the "expert" advice, the per
capita income of the Saudis is about one-third of what
it used to be. Ask the Russian people what they think of
privatization. While there may be some benefits to be
had in specific cases, rushing into restructuring or
privatizing your national industries will likely rob you
of your assets -- a few of you will make a fortune,
while the rest of you will be left poorer.

Choose a democratic model that meets your needs. The
Norwegian model is worth examining. Our Supreme Court
Justice Louis Brandeis said, "We can have a democratic
society or we can have great concentrated wealth in the
hands of a few. We cannot have both." That's pretty much
our situation here in the U.S.

My father M. N. Masud, former ambassador to Saudi
Arabia, wrote: "If true democracy is not confined to the
form or model of government but is the way of life of a
people wherein man is treated with respect and given
dignity, irrespective of what he is or what he is not,
then Islamic society, from the very birth of Islam, has
been nearest to the ideal, much nearer to it than has
been, perhaps, any other society in the recorded history
of man."

But that is history. Recent and current Muslim regimes
are nothing to be proud of -- they have strayed far from
the path of Islam.

I understand that because of your invasion of Kuwait in
1990, 2.6 million claims were filed with the United
Nations Compensation Commission, about $151 billion in
compensation sought has been resolved, and $44 billion
has been awarded to the claimants. It is estimated that
it would require 100 years of sanctions to pay off these
claims. Meanwhile, $14 billion of your oil-for-food
funds are in a UN limbo while we try to grab a bigger
share than we had under Saddam Hussein's regime. Here's
something worth trying.

I see a parallel between your invasion of Kuwait, and
our invasion of your country. Both were a violation of
international law -- arguably you had more justification
than we did for our invasion. We killed many more than
you did during your invasion of Kuwait. The cost of
repairing what we destroyed has yet to be calculated.
But since we are far stronger militarily than you are --
we spend $400 billion annually on defense, the first six
months of our invasion of your country is estimated to
cost us $80 billion, your $1 billion annual defense
spending is no match -- you're not likely to collect
damages from us. Nevertheless, filing your claims will
send a powerful message to the world.

My book, "The War on Islam," which you can download free
from the Internet at www.twf.org discusses these issues
and more. You may find it useful.

With warm regards,

Enver Masud

[Founder of The Wisdom Fund, and an engineering
management consultant -- managed the U.S. National Power
Grid Study; consulted for the World Bank, U.S. Agency
for International Development, and others in Albania,
Czech Republic, Egypt, Ghana, Indonesia, Latvia, Norway,
Pakistan, Russia, Tanzania.]

David

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Oct 13, 2003, 6:52:32 PM10/13/03
to

"The Wisdom Fund" <wisdom...@twf.org> wrote in message
news:wisdomNOSPAM->

> During this "shock and awe" you were subjected to a
> destructive power hundreds of times greater than that
> which brought down the World Trade Center, you lost many

> more than were killed in the WTC attack...

BULLSHIT. MUSLIM LIES.


Phaedrine Stonebridge

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Oct 13, 2003, 11:36:41 PM10/13/03
to
In article <wisdomNOSPAM-1DE0...@news101.his.com>,
The Wisdom Fund <wisdom...@twf.org> wrote:

> From: The Wisdom Fund <wisdom...@twf.org>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.islam
> Subject: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ
> Organization: www.twf.org
> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X)
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:44:01 -0400
> Message-ID: <wisdomNOSPAM-1DE0...@news101.his.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-138-88-33-94.res.east.verizon.net
> X-Trace: news101.his.com 1066074259 138.88.33.94 (13 Oct 2003 15:44:19 -0400)
> Lines: 120
> X-Authenticated-User: wisdom
> Path:
> news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border1
> .nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!mephistopheles.news.clara.net!news.c
> lara.net!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!128.242.171.84.MISMATCH!news-out1.nntp.be!propa
> gator2-sterling!In.nntp.be!news101.his.com!wisdomNOSPAM
> Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com alt.religion.islam:797663


>
> http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/0422-Letter.html
>
> April 23, 2003
>
> AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ
>
> Assalamu alaikum!


Up yours you weiner.

> During this "shock and awe" you were subjected to a
> destructive power hundreds of times greater than that
> which brought down the World Trade Center, you lost many
> more than were killed in the WTC attack, many more of
> you will die as a result of war-related injuries and
> illnesses, and much of your cultural heritage -- indeed
> the world's heritage -- has been destroyed.


It figures you'd be posting from inside the US you pathetic brainwshed
ass. One can only hope you'll soon be headed back to some nice muslim
hellhole where they shove a cattle prod up your hiney if you say the
wrong thing.

.

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

unread,
Oct 14, 2003, 7:30:59 PM10/14/03
to
In article <bmfaa7$9v5$1...@news.eusc.inter.net>,
"David" <pri...@private.com> wrote:

Are you commenting on the entire message or just the part you quoted. If
your comment is only on the part quote, then it is certainly neither
"bullshit" nor "muslim lies".

The current official death count for all 11 September 2001 events is
2998 (which includes 50 presumed and declared dead and another 50
missing and unaccounted for).

The attack on Iraq was caused an untold total number of CIVILIAN deaths
but based soley on publicly reported, confirmable incidents the number
of CIVILIAN deaths is between 7378 and 9181. This is obviously a
UNDERestimate, since it does not include undocumented or unconfirmed
deaths.

It is an undeniable truth that the number of Iraqi civilians who died in
the U.S. attack is much higher than the number the number of civilian
deaths in the U.S. on 9-11.

As to the destructive power unleashed, it is clear that the power
unleashed in and over Iraq far exceeds that of the airliners that
crashed on 9-11.

Coalition forces dropped over 39,000 bombs in Iraq. To that can be added
an untold number of artillery shells, rockets, grenades, etc.

Whether or not the use of such destructive force and the deaths of so
many civilians (as well as around 11,000 Iraqi soldiers) can be
considered a proper use of military power is another question. But the
degree of destruction and death alluded to in the message you quoted is
neither "bullshit" nor "Muslim lies" but the simple truth of what
happened.

--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

Brickbat

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Oct 14, 2003, 8:53:17 PM10/14/03
to
In article <wisdomNOSPAM-1DE0...@news101.his.com>,

I suggest the US review its choice of consultants and limit to those not
brain dead and/or traitors.

Anything that includes both Islam and wisdom is an obvious absurdity.

And, BTW, where you during the decades of Sadaam plundering and killing,
asshole?

Brickbat

unread,
Oct 14, 2003, 9:00:59 PM10/14/03
to
In article <kevans-4D4778....@news.videotron.net>,

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans <kev...@videotron.ca> wrote:

> In article <bmfaa7$9v5$1...@news.eusc.inter.net>,
> "David" <pri...@private.com> wrote:
>
> > "The Wisdom Fund" <wisdom...@twf.org> wrote in message
> > news:wisdomNOSPAM->
> >
> > > During this "shock and awe" you were subjected to a
> > > destructive power hundreds of times greater than that
> > > which brought down the World Trade Center, you lost many
> > > more than were killed in the WTC attack...
> >
> > BULLSHIT. MUSLIM LIES.
> >
> Are you commenting on the entire message or just the part you quoted. If
> your comment is only on the part quote, then it is certainly neither
> "bullshit" nor "muslim lies".
>

I think it was in anticipation of your reply.

> The current official death count for all 11 September 2001 events is
> 2998 (which includes 50 presumed and declared dead and another 50
> missing and unaccounted for).
>
> The attack on Iraq was caused an untold total number of CIVILIAN deaths
> but based soley on publicly reported, confirmable incidents the number
> of CIVILIAN deaths is between 7378 and 9181. This is obviously a
> UNDERestimate, since it does not include undocumented or unconfirmed
> deaths.
>

Where is this reported and confirmed? I'm afraid my subscription to Al
Jazeera ran out. BTW, were they keeping track of Sadaam's body count?
Guess not!

> It is an undeniable truth that the number of Iraqi civilians who died in
> the U.S. attack is much higher than the number the number of civilian
> deaths in the U.S. on 9-11.

I assume that includes the civilians that the Iraqi army hid behind and
coerced into combat situations. Also the army sans uniforms so they
could ambush US troops more effectively.

Muslim shit!

>
> As to the destructive power unleashed, it is clear that the power
> unleashed in and over Iraq far exceeds that of the airliners that
> crashed on 9-11.
>

I don't think the idea is tit-for-tat. I think that is an Islamic
concept.

> Coalition forces dropped over 39,000 bombs in Iraq. To that can be added
> an untold number of artillery shells, rockets, grenades, etc.
>

You use "untold" too much.

> Whether or not the use of such destructive force and the deaths of so
> many civilians (as well as around 11,000 Iraqi soldiers) can be
> considered a proper use of military power is another question. But the
> degree of destruction and death alluded to in the message you quoted is
> neither "bullshit" nor "Muslim lies" but the simple truth of what
> happened.

How many is "so many" Wait, I know.........Untold.

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

unread,
Oct 14, 2003, 9:48:33 PM10/14/03
to
In article <Brickbat_2002-D55...@central.giganews.com>,
Brickbat <Brickb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > The attack on Iraq was caused an untold total number of CIVILIAN deaths
> > but based soley on publicly reported, confirmable incidents the number
> > of CIVILIAN deaths is between 7378 and 9181. This is obviously a
> > UNDERestimate, since it does not include undocumented or unconfirmed
> > deaths.
> >
> Where is this reported and confirmed? I'm afraid my subscription to Al
> Jazeera ran out.

These figures are the ones reported by the independent reseach group at
<http://www.iraqbodycount.net>, which describes its work as follows:

"This is a Human Security project to establish an independent and
comprehensive public database of media-reported civilian deaths in Iraq
resulting directly from military actions by the USA and its allies in
2003. Results and totals are continually updated and made immediately
available on this page.... Casualty figures are derived from a
comprehensive survey of online media reports. Where these sources report
differing figures, the range (a minimum and a maximum) are given. All
results are independently reviewed and error-checked by at least three
members of the Iraq Body Count project team before publication."

The ENTIRE database is available on their site in case you want to
verify any specific incidents.

--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

Phaedrine Stonebridge

unread,
Oct 15, 2003, 12:51:21 AM10/15/03
to
In article <kevans-BB17C6....@news.videotron.net>,

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans <kev...@videotron.ca> wrote:


Just another little muslim scandal sheet right up there with other BS
like, "My Mom Gave Birth to a Manatee" and "Mohamad Went to Jerusalem".

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

unread,
Oct 15, 2003, 8:04:23 AM10/15/03
to
In article
<phaedrine_stonebridge...@news-50.giganews.com>,
Phaedrine Stonebridge <phaedrine_...@spamenot.yahoo.com>
wrote:

I suppose you came to that cogent conclusion AFTER investigating the
credentials and reputations of the people involved. If you have anything
of substance to say about the methodology or integrity of the data or
the credibility of one or more of those responsible, fine. But what is
the point of just making snide remarks?

"The IRAQ BODY COUNT Project Team are:

"HAMIT DARDAGAN (Principal researcher and site manager) is a freelance
researcher currently working in London. He has made an in-depth study of
the research methods of Professor Marc Herold, who pioneered a
media-based methodology for estimating civilian deaths in the Afghan war
of 2001-2. He has written for Counterpunch, and has undertaken research
for a number of organisations, including Greenpeace. He has been chair
of "Kalayaan" a human rights campaign for overseas domestic workers in
the UK, which led to significant enhancement in their legal rights.

"JOHN SLOBODA (Associate researcher and archivist) trained as a research
psychologist and is currently Professor of Psychology at the University
of Keele, UK. In 1999-2000 he worked with the Committee for Peace in the
Balkans, and researched effects on the civilian population of the NATO
bombing campaign. Since September 11th 2001 he has been responsible for
the daily peaceuk.net mailing list disseminating critical non-violent
perspectives on "the war on terror". He is a founder member of the
Network of Activist Scholars of Politics and International Relations
(Naspir), and a local delegate to the Stop the War Coalition. He is
currently Web Resources Manager for Peace News, and is undertaking
consultancy work for the Oxford Research Group.

"BÜLENT GÖKAY (Associate researcher) is a Senior Lecturer in
International Relations at Keele University. He is co-founder and core
researcher of the Keele Southeast Europe Unit. He has authored many
books and articles on global politics, the Middle East, Balkans and
Central Asia, including A Clash of Empires: Turkey between Russian
Bolshevism and British Imperialism (1997), The Politics of Caspian Oil
(2001), Eastern Europe Since 1970 (2002), and The Most Dangerous Game in
the World: Oil, War, and US Global Hegemony (2002), and is co-editor of
the forthcoming book, War, Terror and Judgement: 11 September 2001 (Feb
2003).

"TORBEN FRANCK (Webmaster) is a musician and peace activist. He is
webmaster for www.peaceuk.net, www.humanshields.org as well as Iraq Body
Count. He has recorded a track (with Joe Wilson) for the recent Stop the
War CD compilation, issued in December 2002. He is a delegate to the
Stop the War National Conference.

"MARC HEROLD (Research consultant) is an Associate Professor of Economic
Development, International Affairs and Women's Studies at the University
of New Hampshire, USA, where he has taught since 1975. He holds a
Master's degree in international business and finance and a Ph.D in
Economics from the University of California in Berkeley, as well as an
engineering degree in electronics from the Swiss Federal Polytechnic
University. He has focused his writings upon social and economic changes
in the Second and Third Worlds and his current research interests are on
Brazil and Afghanistan, including the latter country's post-war
situation. In December 2001 he released a widely cited study of the
human costs of the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan "A Dossier on
Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A
Comprehensive Accounting"), updates to which may befound at:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mwherold.

"GLEN RANGWALA (Legal consultant) is a lecturer in politics at Newnham
and Trinity Colleges, Cambridge University. He is trained in political
theory and international law. His doctorate, from Cambridge University,
was in political and legal rhetoric in the Arab Middle East. He is also
published on a number of other themes, including international
humanitarian law, comparative human rights law, Iraq and nuclear weapons.

"DAVID FLANAGAN (Technical consultant) is author of JavaScript: The
Definitive Guide (among other standard works) and wrote the JavaScript
code for Iraq Body Count that keeps our Web Counters updated while
making them easy for webmasters to install.

"PETER BAGNALL (Tech consultant & user support) is currently a
postgraduate student at Lancaster University studying computer science
and psychology. He spent two years working as a software design
consultant in Silicon Valley, and before that four years as a network
research engineer for British Telecom. His professional interest is
using technology to provide real benefit to society, rather than just to
develop flashy gadgets. His thoughts on ethics, politics and technology
can be found on his website.

"TRANSLATORS FOR PEACE is a free association of translators from all
countries and of all nationalities. The Association was founded in 1999,
during the Kosovo war, by a group of Italian translators who decided to
dedicate a portion of their time to translate and publish information
regarding the costs of modern technological wars in terms of human
lives, the environment, democracy and human rights.

"JOHN BUCCHERI (Assistant researcher) is co-founder of MOW (Musicians
Opposing War) at the School of Music, Northwestern University, Evanston,
Illinois, and a Charles Deering McCormick Professor of Teaching
Excellence in the Music Theory program. His scholarly interests center
on teaching and learning, with emphasis on the practical application of
analytical technique as a tool for learning and interpreting music. He
is currently the Immediate Past President of The College Music Society.
John has marched in Washington DC on Jan 18, in New York City on Feb 15
and Washington DC on March 15, and believes during these bad times, a
PERSISTENT STRONG VOICE OF OPPOSITION must be heard.

"ERIC CLARKE (Assistant researcher) is professor of music at the
University of Sheffield, where he does research and teaching in the
psychology of music. He was an active member of Camden CND in the 1980s,
and is a member of Amnesty International.

"NIKKI DIBBEN (Assistant researcher) is a lecturer in music at Sheffield
University where she carries out research into music perception, and
gender representations in popular music.

"JOSHUA DOUGHERTY (Assistant researcher) is a guitarist, private
instructor and a graduate student in music at the University of the Arts
in Philadelphia, PA, USA.

"CHARLIE FORD (Assistant researcher) was awarded a doctorate for his
holistic critique of Mozart's Cosi fan tutte in 1989 and has since
published on popular music. He is an active member of Amnesty
International and an occasional contributor to peaceuk mailings.

"SEBASTIAN HALLIDAY was a university psychology teacher and researcher
in Cambridge, Sussex and Manchester. He took early retirement four years
ago and now lives in St Ives, Cornwall, where he was brought up. He was
active in CND & END in the early eighties and has been reactivated by
this war.

"JORDANA LIPSCOMB (Assistant researcher) is a retired litigation
attorney and mother of two. Supporting member and event coordinator of
Musicians Opposing War (MOW). She received her Bachelors of Arts degree
from New York University in Russian Language and her Juris Doctorate
Degree from Southwestern University School of Law. She is currently
researching the legalities and criminal implications of this war and
welcomes information and sources on this subject.

"SCOTT LIPSCOMB (Assistant researcher) is a co-founder of Musicians
Opposing War, a collective of Northwestern University faculty, staff, &
students in the United States who came together for the purpose of
expressing opposition to the War on Iraq, who believe that U.S. military
aggression is likely to increase - not deter - terrorism on American
shores, and who advocate seeking non-violent solutions to the world's
problems through a consensus of peace-minded nations. Scott is an
Associate Professor in the School of Music at Northwestern, where he
teaches in the Music Education and Music Cognition programs and carries
out research related to the processes involved in music listening and
their affect upon the listener. He is also co-author of "Rock and Roll:
Its History and Stylistic Development" (2003, 4th edition,
Prentice-Hall) and has been extremely concerned about the lack of
response to this issue from the musical community. The recent appearance
of organizations like Musicians United to Win Without War (Russell
Simmons, Rosanne Cash, Michael Stipe, Dave Matthews, Peter Gabriel,
Suzanne Vega, and others) is a welcome occurrence and hopefully only the
first of many more that will follow.

"DOUG STOKES (Assistant researcher) is a doctoral candidate in
International Relations at Bristol University. His primary area of
research is on US foreign policy in Colombia, the post-Cold War
continuities in North-South relations, and the use of force by Western
states in the developing world. His publications and teaching interests
can be found on his website at www.dougstokes.net .

"DARELL WHITMAN (Assistant researcher) is a post-graduate student with
the School of Politics, International Relations and the Environment at
Keele University. He holds a Master's degree in Government from
California State University, Sacramento, a Master's degree in Political
Sociology from Southern Oregon University, and a Juris Doctorate in law
from the University of Santa Clara. He is an attorney licensed to
practice law in California and U.S. federal courts. He has been a
long-time peace and environmental in the U.S., and served on the
national organizing committee of the Emergency Committee to Stop the War
(Gulf War I) from 1991-1992.

"KAY WILLIAMS (Assistant researcher) is a recently retired librarian,
who worked most recently as Head of Acquisitions in Keele University
Library. She runs a mailing list for those in the Keele and
Newcastle-under-Lyme area of Staffordshire who are interested in local
and national anti-war activities.

"ROWAN WILLIAMS (Assistant researcher) is a graduate in Modern Languages
from the University of Cambridge. For a number of years she was Justice
and Peace representative for the Anglican Community of St Francis, and a
member of the steering group of the Justice and Peace Links of the
interdenominational Conference of Religious. She is currently training
for the priesthood in Cambridge."

Source: <http://www.iraqbodycount.net/contacts.htm>

--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

none

unread,
Oct 15, 2003, 8:20:02 AM10/15/03
to
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:04:23 -0400, Abdelkarim Benoit Evans <kev...@videotron.ca> wrote:

>In article

><phaedrine_stonebridge...@news-50.giganews.com>,
> Phaedrine Stonebridge <phaedrine_...@spamenot.yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Just another little muslim scandal sheet right up there with other BS
>> like, "My Mom Gave Birth to a Manatee" and "Mohamad Went to Jerusalem".
>

>"The IRAQ BODY COUNT Project Team are:
>

>"JOHN SLOBODA Since September 11th 2001 he has been responsible for

>the daily peaceuk.net mailing list disseminating critical non-violent
>perspectives on "the war on terror".

LOL


>"TORBEN FRANCK (Webmaster) is a musician and peace activist. He is
>webmaster for www.peaceuk.net, www.humanshields.org
>

ROFL!!!!!!!


>"DAVID FLANAGAN (Technical consultant) is author of JavaScript: The
>Definitive Guide

Ha Ha!!! DOES NOT COMPUTE!
GARBAGE IN ... GARBAGE OUT!!


LOL!


>
>"JOHN BUCCHERI (Assistant researcher) is co-founder of MOW (Musicians
>Opposing War) at the School of Music, Northwestern University,

LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!

>"ERIC CLARKE (Assistant researcher) is professor of music at the
>University of Sheffield,


The fun never stops, does it .. LOSER.

>
>"NIKKI DIBBEN (Assistant researcher) is a lecturer in music at Sheffield
>University

MORE MORE!

>
>"JOSHUA DOUGHERTY (Assistant researcher) is a guitarist,

YEEE HAW!

>
>"CHARLIE FORD (Assistant researcher) was awarded a doctorate for his
>holistic critique of Mozart's Cosi fan tutte in 1989


Let's see. Should I believe Condoleeza Rice or this expert..

Hmmm ..

>"SEBASTIAN HALLIDAY was a university psychology teacher

HE HE .....

>
>"JORDANA LIPSCOMB Supporting member and event coordinator of
>Musicians Opposing War (MOW).

Wow! The objectivity is stunning.

>
>"SCOTT LIPSCOMB (Assistant researcher) is a co-founder of Musicians
>Opposing War,

Did they bus all the musical.peaceniks there, or did they have to hitchhike?

ROFLMFAO!!


>
>Source: <http://www.iraqbodycount.net/contacts.htm>

Above link now *totally* discredited.

B-O-O-M!!!!!!!

LOL!!


***** Oderint dum metuant! *****

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

unread,
Oct 15, 2003, 6:48:43 PM10/15/03
to
In article <k7eqovs5gru5mrhqv...@4ax.com>,
none <no...@none.none> wrote:

Do you really think it is fair for you to make it appear in your
response that you are quoting the ENTIRE list of persons when in fact
you only reproduced the names that you think prove your point while
ignoring the names that might disprove your point.

Apparently you believe that being a musician and being able to collect
and collate published casualty reports are mutually exclusive
endeavours. You certainly have the right to hold that opinion. But you
really should be honest about it and not try to make it appear that only
those you consider incompetent are involved. Do you also consider the
following members of the organization (whom you so conveniently ignored)
to be unequipped to collect casualty reports from mainstream media
reports?

"HAMIT DARDAGAN (Principal researcher and site manager) is a freelance
researcher currently working in London. He has made an in-depth study of
the research methods of Professor Marc Herold, who pioneered a
media-based methodology for estimating civilian deaths in the Afghan war

of 2001-2. (...)

"JOHN SLOBODA (Associate researcher and archivist) trained as a research
psychologist and is currently Professor of Psychology at the University
of Keele, UK. In 1999-2000 he worked with the Committee for Peace in the
Balkans, and researched effects on the civilian population of the NATO

bombing campaign. (...)

"BÜLENT GÖKAY (Associate researcher) is a Senior Lecturer in
International Relations at Keele University. He is co-founder and core
researcher of the Keele Southeast Europe Unit. He has authored many
books and articles on global politics, the Middle East, Balkans and
Central Asia, including A Clash of Empires: Turkey between Russian
Bolshevism and British Imperialism (1997), The Politics of Caspian Oil
(2001), Eastern Europe Since 1970 (2002), and The Most Dangerous Game in
the World: Oil, War, and US Global Hegemony (2002), and is co-editor of
the forthcoming book, War, Terror and Judgement: 11 September 2001 (Feb
2003).

"MARC HEROLD (Research consultant) is an Associate Professor of Economic

Development, International Affairs and Women's Studies at the University
of New Hampshire, USA, where he has taught since 1975. He holds a
Master's degree in international business and finance and a Ph.D in
Economics from the University of California in Berkeley, as well as an
engineering degree in electronics from the Swiss Federal Polytechnic
University. He has focused his writings upon social and economic changes
in the Second and Third Worlds and his current research interests are on
Brazil and Afghanistan, including the latter country's post-war
situation. In December 2001 he released a widely cited study of the
human costs of the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan "A Dossier on
Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A

Comprehensive Accounting") (...).

"GLEN RANGWALA (Legal consultant) is a lecturer in politics at Newnham
and Trinity Colleges, Cambridge University. He is trained in political
theory and international law. His doctorate, from Cambridge University,
was in political and legal rhetoric in the Arab Middle East. He is also
published on a number of other themes, including international
humanitarian law, comparative human rights law, Iraq and nuclear weapons.

"TRANSLATORS FOR PEACE is a free association of translators from all

countries and of all nationalities. The Association was founded in 1999,
during the Kosovo war, by a group of Italian translators who decided to
dedicate a portion of their time to translate and publish information
regarding the costs of modern technological wars in terms of human
lives, the environment, democracy and human rights.

"JORDANA LIPSCOMB (Assistant researcher) is a retired litigation
attorney.... She received her Bachelors of Arts degree

from New York University in Russian Language and her Juris Doctorate
Degree from Southwestern University School of Law. She is currently
researching the legalities and criminal implications of this war and
welcomes information and sources on this subject.

"DOUG STOKES (Assistant researcher) is a doctoral candidate in

International Relations at Bristol University. His primary area of
research is on US foreign policy in Colombia, the post-Cold War
continuities in North-South relations, and the use of force by Western

states in the developing world. (...)

"DARELL WHITMAN (Assistant researcher) is a post-graduate student with
the School of Politics, International Relations and the Environment at
Keele University. He holds a Master's degree in Government from
California State University, Sacramento, a Master's degree in Political
Sociology from Southern Oregon University, and a Juris Doctorate in law

from the University of Santa Clara. (...)"


You may consider musicians to be non-experts and dilletantes in counting
bodies, but surely you cannot pretend to put ALL the others in the same
category--unless of course your mind is closed to serious debate.

--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

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