Freedom: Islam has been trying to take over in London, England

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

unread,

Feb 27, 2013, 3:01:06 PM2/27/13

to

Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
because they don't agree with the laws of England:

News story about Sharia Law advocacy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g

Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M

Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
following. Don't give up any of your freedoms, and don't let anyone
take them away, even in the name of moderation, for any slight amount of
freedom lost will likely be gone forever.

Freedom is a win-win for everyone. Compromise is not the solution
because it erodes freedom by favouring intolerance. Insist on the
win-win approach and protect freedom for everyone.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"Our march to freedom is irreversible. We must not allow fear to stand
in our way."
-- Nelson Mandela

Dakota

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Feb 27, 2013, 5:46:04 PM2/27/13

to

On 2/27/2013 2:01 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
wrote:

> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
> the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
> because they don't agree with the laws of England:
>
> News story about Sharia Law advocacy
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g
>
> Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M
>
> Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
> following. Don't give up any of your freedoms, and don't let anyone
> take them away, even in the name of moderation, for any slight amount of
> freedom lost will likely be gone forever.
>
> Freedom is a win-win for everyone. Compromise is not the solution
> because it erodes freedom by favouring intolerance. Insist on the
> win-win approach and protect freedom for everyone.
>

Not much chance of Sharia being part of US law. A handful of Religions
loons in the South Dakota legislature tried to pass a law forbidding
judges to use Sharia as a legal standard. Even in this red state, the
silly law was soundly rejected as unnecessary.

Jason

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Feb 27, 2013, 6:54:06 PM2/27/13

to

In article <20130227120106.25de...@fidemturbare.com>,

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"

<god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
> the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
> because they don't agree with the laws of England:
>
> News story about Sharia Law advocacy
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g
>
> Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M
>
> Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
> following. Don't give up any of your freedoms, and don't let anyone
> take them away, even in the name of moderation, for any slight amount of
> freedom lost will likely be gone forever.
>
> Freedom is a win-win for everyone. Compromise is not the solution
> because it erodes freedom by favouring intolerance. Insist on the
> win-win approach and protect freedom for everyone.

Some of the radical imams in England have been secret. recorded saying
very clearly that the end goal of the radical Muslims is to eventually
take over the entire world--one country at a time. They are off to a good
start--I believe that at least a dozen countries are Muslim countries.

Muslims have total control over North Sudan and recently attacked the
people that live in South Sudan. It's obvious that radical Muslims have a
goal of taking control of South Sudan. It's a huge country and they can
use North Sudan as a base country to take over all of the other countries
in Africa.

The official religion of Somalia is the Sunni Muslim religion.

Jason

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Feb 27, 2013, 7:01:27 PM2/27/13

to

<http://townhall.com/tipsheet/chrisfield/2011/03/23/shariah_law_in_america_the_islamists_plan_to_destroy_us_from_within>

Alan Ferris

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Feb 27, 2013, 6:54:06 PM2/27/13

to

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:54:06 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>Some of the radical imams in England have been secret. recorded saying
>very clearly that the end goal of the radical Muslims is to eventually
>take over the entire world--one country at a time. They are off to a good
>start--I believe that at least a dozen countries are Muslim countries.

Then they have been going backwards. Or do you not know your history?
--
Ferrit

()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.

SERV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWhXGhv-tTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7bsUttGho8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60mZsohBr3Q

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

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Feb 27, 2013, 6:57:11 PM2/27/13

to

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1235

THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD'S "GENERAL STRATEGIC GOAL" FOR NORTH AMERICA

In July 2007, seven key leaders of an Islamic charity known as the
Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) went on trial
for charges that they had: (a) provided "material support and
resources" to a foreign terrorist organization (namely Hamas); (b)
engaged in money laundering; and (c) breached the International
Emergency Economic Powers Act, which prohibits transactions that
threaten American national security. Along with the seven named
defendants, the U.S. government released a list of approximately 300
"unindicted co-conspirators" and "joint venturers." During the course
of the HLF trial, many incriminating documents were entered into
evidence. Perhaps the most significant of these was "An Explanatory
Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North
America," by the Muslim Brotherhood operative Mohamed Akram. Federal
investigators found Akram's memo in the home of Ismael Elbarasse, a
founder of the Dar Al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Virginia, during
a 2004 search. Elbarasse was a member of the Palestine Committee,
which the Muslim Brotherhood had created to support Hamas in the
United States.

Written sometime in 1987 but not formally published until May 22,
1991, Akram's 18-page document listed the Brotherhood’s 29 likeminded
"organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of
dismantling American institutions and turning the U.S. into a Muslim
nation. These "friends" were identified by Akram and the Brotherhood
as groups that could help convince Muslims "that their work in America
is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western
civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their
hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over
all other religions."

Akram was well aware that in the U.S., it would be extremely difficult
to promote Islam by means of terror attacks. Thus the “grand jihad”
that he and his Brotherhood comrades envisioned was not a violent one
involving bombings and shootings, but rather a stealth (or “soft”)
jihad aiming to impose Islamic law (Sharia) over every region of the
earth by incremental, non-confrontational means, such as working to
“expand the observant Muslim base”; to “unif[y] and direc[t] Muslims'
efforts”; and to “present Islam as a civilization alternative.” At its
heart, Akram's document details a plan to conquer and Islamize the
United States – not as an ultimate objective, but merely as a stepping
stone toward the larger goal of one day creating “the global Islamic
state.”

In line with this objective, Akram and the Brotherhood resolved to
"settle" Islam and the Islamic movement within the United States, so
that the Muslim religion could be "enabled within the souls, minds and
the lives of the people of the country.” Akram explained that this
could be accomplished “through the establishment of firmly-rooted
organizations on whose bases civilization, structure and testimony are
built.” He urged Muslim leaders to make “a shift from the collision
mentality to the absorption mentality,” meaning that they should
abandon any tactics involving defiance or confrontation, and seek
instead to implant into the larger society a host of seemingly benign
Islamic groups with ostensibly unobjectionable motives; once those
groups had gained a measure of public acceptance, they would be in a
position to more effectively promote societal transformation by the
old Communist technique of “boring from within.”

“The heart and the core” of this strategy, said Akram, was contingent
upon these groups' ability to develop “a mastery of the art of
'coalitions.'” That is, by working synergistically they could
complement, augment, and amplify one another's efforts. Added Akram:
“The big challenge that is ahead of us is how to turn these seeds or
'scattered' elements into comprehensive, stable, 'settled'
organizations that are connected with our Movement and which fly in
our orbit and take orders from our guidance.” The ultimate objective
was not only an enlarged Muslim presence, but also implementation of
the Brotherhood objectives of transforming pluralistic societies,
particularly America, into Islamic states, and sweeping away Western
notions of legal equality, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion,
and freedom of speech.

Akram and the Brotherhood understood that in order to succeed in this
endeavor, they needed to appeal to different strata of the American
population in different ways; that whereas some people could be
influenced by messages delivered from a religious perspective, others
would be more responsive to messages delivered by educators, or
bankers, or political figures, or journalists, etc. Thus, Akram's
blueprint for the advancement of the Islamic movement stressed the
need to form a coalition of groups coming from the worlds of
education; religious proselytization; political activism; audio and
video production; print media; banking and finance; the physical
sciences; the social sciences; professional and business networking;
cultural affairs; the publishing and distribution of books; children
and teenagers; women's rights; vocational concerns; and jurisprudence.

By promoting the Islamic movement on such a wide variety of fronts,
the Brotherhood and its allies could multiply exponentially their
influence. Toward that end, the Akram/Brotherhood “Explanatory
Memorandum” named the following 29 groups as the organizations they
believed could collaborate effectively to destroy America from within
– “if they all march according to one plan”:

Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)

ISNA Fiqh Committee (now known as the Fiqh Council of North America)

ISNA Political Awareness Committee

Muslim Youth of North America

Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada

Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers

Islamic Medical Association (of North America)

Islamic Teaching Center

Malaysian Islamic Study Group

Foundation for International Development

North American Islamic Trust

Islamic Centers Division

American Trust Publications

Audio-Visual Center

Islamic Book Service

Islamic Circle of North America

Muslim Arab Youth Association

Islamic Association for Palestine

United Association for Studies and Research

International Institute of Islamic Thought

Muslim Communities Association

Association of Muslim Social Scientists (of North America)

Islamic Housing Cooperative

Muslim Businessmen Association

Islamic Education Department

Occupied Land Fund (later known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief
and Development)

Mercy International Association

Baitul Mal Inc.

Islamic Information Center (of America)

By setting up these many front groups, the Muslim Brotherhood was
emulating the Communist Party tactic of creating interlocking front
groups during the Cold War in order to confuse its enemies and make it
more difficult to combat.

Mitchell Holman

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Feb 27, 2013, 7:18:26 PM2/27/13

to

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-27021...@66-53-210-68.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

No part of the US has any Shariah law
being practiced. None.

This piece of paranoia comes from the
same rightwing blather as Obama death
panels and gun confiscation boogeymen.

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Feb 27, 2013, 9:06:02 PM2/27/13

to

In article <Jason-27021...@66-53-210-68.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <20130227120106.25de...@fidemturbare.com>,
> "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> > Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
> > the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
> > because they don't agree with the laws of England:
> >
> > News story about Sharia Law advocacy
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g
> >
> > Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M
> >
> > Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
> > following. Don't give up any of your freedoms, and don't let anyone
> > take them away, even in the name of moderation, for any slight amount of
> > freedom lost will likely be gone forever.
> >
> > Freedom is a win-win for everyone. Compromise is not the solution
> > because it erodes freedom by favouring intolerance. Insist on the
> > win-win approach and protect freedom for everyone.
>
> Some of the radical imams in England have been secret. recorded saying
> very clearly that the end goal of the radical Muslims is to eventually
> take over the entire world--one country at a time.

What do the rantings of extremists have to do with reality?

> They are off to a good
> start--I believe that at least a dozen countries are Muslim countries.

What the fuck are you talking about. There are far more Muslim countries
than that. And every single one of them has been Muslim for hundreds of
years.

> Muslims have total control over North Sudan and recently attacked the
> people that live in South Sudan. It's obvious that radical Muslims have a
> goal of taking control of South Sudan. It's a huge country and they can
> use North Sudan as a base country to take over all of the other countries
> in Africa.

What the fuck are you talking about. South Sudan only became independent
of Sudan a little over a year ago, so if Sudan wanted to use South Sudan
as a base of operations against the rest of Africa, why did they let
them become independent in the first place.

Will you EVER start thinking about what you're writing before you make
yourself an even bigger fool?

> The official religion of Somalia is the Sunni Muslim religion.

And has been for hundreds of years. So what?

--
JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

Devils Advocaat

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Feb 27, 2013, 11:05:05 PM2/27/13

to

On 27 Feb, 20:01, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"

<godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
> the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
> because they don't agree with the laws of England:
>

> News story about Sharia Law advocacyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g
>
> Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslimshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M

>
> Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
> following. Don't give up any of your freedoms, and don't let anyone
> take them away, even in the name of moderation, for any slight amount of
> freedom lost will likely be gone forever.
>
> Freedom is a win-win for everyone. Compromise is not the solution
> because it erodes freedom by favouring intolerance. Insist on the
> win-win approach and protect freedom for everyone.
>
> --
> Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
> "Our march to freedom is irreversible. We must not allow fear to stand
> in our way."
> -- Nelson Mandela

My question to such people is this, if you lived in a country
controlled by Sharia law, how would you react to fundamentalist
Christians trying to impose their laws on your people?

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

unread,

Feb 27, 2013, 11:55:03 PM2/27/13

to

Unholy Alliance:
Radical Islam And the American Left [Paperback]
David Horowitz (Author)

Book Description
The bestselling "Unholy Alliance" is now in paperback! Former Leftist
radical David Horowitz blows the lid off the dangerous liaison between
U.S. liberals and Islamic radicals. With America's battle against the
disastrous force of terrorism at hand, Horowitz takes us behind the
curtain of the unholy alliance between liberals and the enemy - a
force with malevolent intentions, and one that Americans can no longer
ignore.

Review
An original look at those who want us to fail in the Middle East, both
at home and abroad. The -- Davis Hanson, Author, Ripples of Battle

Before Americans vote for their next president, they must read David
Horowitz's account of the Left's alliance with Islamic radicls -- Lt.
General Thomas McInerney USAF (Ret.), Co author, with Maj. General
Paul Vallely, Endgame

David Horowitz is synonymous with pyrotechnics. A historian and
polemicist of the first order, he is paid the ultimate compliment --
Rich Lowry, Editor National Review

Mike 'Rifle' DeLong was the best deputy commander I could have
imagined. Seasoned in Vietnam as a young helicopter pilot, -- General
Tommy R. Franks, U.S. Army (Ret.), former commander of CentCom

Written with great zest and intellectual energy, David Horowitz's
Unholy Alliance is primarily a devastating indictment of how the
radical -- Norman Podhoretz, Author, critic, and senior fellow at the
Hudson Institute --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable
edition of this title.
From the Inside Flap
In this tour de force on the most important issue of our time, David
Horowitz, confronts the paradox of how so many Americans, including
the leadership of the Democratic Party, could turn against the War on
Terror. He finds an answer in a political Left that shares a view of
America as the "Great Satan" with America’s radical Islamic enemies.
This Left, which once made common cause with Communists, has now
joined forces with radical Islam in attacking America’s defenses at
home and its policies abroad. From their positions of influence in the
university and media culture, leftists have defined America as the
"root cause" of the attacks against it. In a remarkable exploration of
the "Mind of the Left," Horowitz traces the evolution of American
radicalism from its Communist past to its "anti-war" present. He then
shows how this Left was able to turn the Democratic Party presidential
campaign around and reshape its views on the War on Terror.
Horowitz’s Unholy Alliance, writes John Haynes, the noted historian of
American Communism, "is an insightful, brilliant examination of the
mental world of the radical left. Horowitz shows how today’s radicals,
unwilling to reflect on the internal flaws that destroyed Marxism-
Leninism from within, have embraced an all-consuming nihilism in its
place. This has led them to a hatred of American institutions and a
solidarity with Islamic terrorists that makes the radical left more
properly regarded as dangerous than loony."

Unholy Alliance is an eye-opening book that should unsettle
conventional assumptions and reveals why intellectuals and political
leaders who applaud Michael Moore are no laughing matter. As Harvey
Klehr, author of Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America, writes,
"The world Communist movement may be moribund, but its habits of mind
and ideological fantasies have not disappeared. This is a fascinating
and depressing account."

http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 12:47:09 AM2/28/13

to

That depends. Are they armed with destructive weapons?

> > They are off to a good
> > start--I believe that at least a dozen countries are Muslim
> > countries.
>
> What the fuck are you talking about. There are far more Muslim
> countries than that. And every single one of them has been Muslim for
> hundreds of years.

Excellent point.

> > Muslims have total control over North Sudan and recently attacked
> > the people that live in South Sudan. It's obvious that radical
> > Muslims have a goal of taking control of South Sudan. It's a huge
> > country and they can use North Sudan as a base country to take over
> > all of the other countries in Africa.
>
> What the fuck are you talking about. South Sudan only became
> independent of Sudan a little over a year ago, so if Sudan wanted to
> use South Sudan as a base of operations against the rest of Africa,
> why did they let them become independent in the first place.

They'll have to play nice with China if they are to be effective, but
since China is secular this may not work out so well for them. The
reason for this is China's long-term investment strategy in Africa that
has already liberated many people and increased education. China
doesn't give hand-outs like North Americans are known for, rather they
invest money and training for a longer-term win-win scenario. There is
a certain degree of loyalty that results from this which is why I made
the point about playing nice with China.

> Will you EVER start thinking about what you're writing before you
> make yourself an even bigger fool?
>
> > The official religion of Somalia is the Sunni Muslim religion.
>
> And has been for hundreds of years. So what?

Excellent questions.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Those most in need of education are the most fearful of its effects."
-- Dr. Don Martin

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 12:49:13 AM2/28/13

to

"Excellent" is not a great enough word to describe that. Thank you for
pointing this out. It's always wonderful to see the First Amendment of
the USA Constitution in action, and I'd rank your example among the
best of them.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do
because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
-- Susan B. Anthony

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 12:50:31 AM2/28/13

to

That's because the USA values human rights at the constitutional level.

> This piece of paranoia comes from the
> same rightwing blather as Obama death
> panels and gun confiscation boogeymen.

Ha ha! Interesting.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"There are many truths; belief is not the way to find any of them."
-- David Silverman, Defender of Civilisation

Jason

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Feb 28, 2013, 1:32:19 AM2/28/13

to

In article <hlwdjsd2-894717...@news.giganews.com>, Jeanne

Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>
> > They are off to a good
> > start--I believe that at least a dozen countries are Muslim countries.
>
> What the fuck are you talking about. There are far more Muslim countries
> than that. And every single one of them has been Muslim for hundreds of
> years.
>
>
> > Muslims have total control over North Sudan and recently attacked the
> > people that live in South Sudan. It's obvious that radical Muslims have a
> > goal of taking control of South Sudan. It's a huge country and they can
> > use North Sudan as a base country to take over all of the other countries
> > in Africa.
>
> What the fuck are you talking about. South Sudan only became independent
> of Sudan a little over a year ago, so if Sudan wanted to use South Sudan
> as a base of operations against the rest of Africa, why did they let
> them become independent in the first place.
>
> Will you EVER start thinking about what you're writing before you make
> yourself an even bigger fool?
>
> > The official religion of Somalia is the Sunni Muslim religion.
>
> And has been for hundreds of years. So what?

I clearly stated that radical Muslims could use NORTH SUDAN (not south
Sudan) as a base country to take over all of the other countries in
Africa.

Yes, radical Muslims took over Somalia hundreds of years ago.

Have radical Muslims taken control of any other countries in Africa other
than North Sudan and Somalia?

Jason

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 1:36:23 AM2/28/13

to

In article
<e1b0c220-1215-4033...@9g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>,
"jwshe...@satx.rr.com" <jwshe...@satx.rr.com> wrote:

> http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=3D1235

>
> THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD'S "GENERAL STRATEGIC GOAL" FOR NORTH AMERICA
>
>
> In July 2007, seven key leaders of an Islamic charity known as the
> Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) went on trial
> for charges that they had: (a) provided "material support and
> resources" to a foreign terrorist organization (namely Hamas); (b)
> engaged in money laundering; and (c) breached the International
> Emergency Economic Powers Act, which prohibits transactions that
> threaten American national security. Along with the seven named
> defendants, the U.S. government released a list of approximately 300
> "unindicted co-conspirators" and "joint venturers." During the course
> of the HLF trial, many incriminating documents were entered into
> evidence. Perhaps the most significant of these was "An Explanatory
> Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North
> America," by the Muslim Brotherhood operative Mohamed Akram. Federal
> investigators found Akram's memo in the home of Ismael Elbarasse, a
> founder of the Dar Al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Virginia, during
> a 2004 search. Elbarasse was a member of the Palestine Committee,
> which the Muslim Brotherhood had created to support Hamas in the
> United States.
>
> Written sometime in 1987 but not formally published until May 22,

> 1991, Akram's 18-page document listed the Brotherhood=92s 29 likeminded

> "organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of
> dismantling American institutions and turning the U.S. into a Muslim
> nation. These "friends" were identified by Akram and the Brotherhood
> as groups that could help convince Muslims "that their work in America
> is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western
> civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their
> hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over
> all other religions."
>
> Akram was well aware that in the U.S., it would be extremely difficult

> to promote Islam by means of terror attacks. Thus the =93grand jihad=94

> that he and his Brotherhood comrades envisioned was not a violent one

> involving bombings and shootings, but rather a stealth (or =93soft=94)

> jihad aiming to impose Islamic law (Sharia) over every region of the
> earth by incremental, non-confrontational means, such as working to

> =93expand the observant Muslim base=94; to =93unif[y] and direc[t] Muslims'
> efforts=94; and to =93present Islam as a civilization alternative.=94 At it=

> s
> heart, Akram's document details a plan to conquer and Islamize the

> United States =96 not as an ultimate objective, but merely as a stepping
> stone toward the larger goal of one day creating =93the global Islamic
> state.=94

>
> In line with this objective, Akram and the Brotherhood resolved to
> "settle" Islam and the Islamic movement within the United States, so
> that the Muslim religion could be "enabled within the souls, minds and

> the lives of the people of the country.=94 Akram explained that this
> could be accomplished =93through the establishment of firmly-rooted

> organizations on whose bases civilization, structure and testimony are

> built.=94 He urged Muslim leaders to make =93a shift from the collision
> mentality to the absorption mentality,=94 meaning that they should

> abandon any tactics involving defiance or confrontation, and seek
> instead to implant into the larger society a host of seemingly benign
> Islamic groups with ostensibly unobjectionable motives; once those
> groups had gained a measure of public acceptance, they would be in a
> position to more effectively promote societal transformation by the

> old Communist technique of =93boring from within.=94
>
> =93The heart and the core=94 of this strategy, said Akram, was contingent
> upon these groups' ability to develop =93a mastery of the art of
> 'coalitions.'=94 That is, by working synergistically they could

> complement, augment, and amplify one another's efforts. Added Akram:

> =93The big challenge that is ahead of us is how to turn these seeds or

> 'scattered' elements into comprehensive, stable, 'settled'
> organizations that are connected with our Movement and which fly in

> our orbit and take orders from our guidance.=94 The ultimate objective

> was not only an enlarged Muslim presence, but also implementation of
> the Brotherhood objectives of transforming pluralistic societies,
> particularly America, into Islamic states, and sweeping away Western
> notions of legal equality, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion,
> and freedom of speech.
>
> Akram and the Brotherhood understood that in order to succeed in this
> endeavor, they needed to appeal to different strata of the American
> population in different ways; that whereas some people could be
> influenced by messages delivered from a religious perspective, others
> would be more responsive to messages delivered by educators, or
> bankers, or political figures, or journalists, etc. Thus, Akram's
> blueprint for the advancement of the Islamic movement stressed the
> need to form a coalition of groups coming from the worlds of
> education; religious proselytization; political activism; audio and
> video production; print media; banking and finance; the physical
> sciences; the social sciences; professional and business networking;
> cultural affairs; the publishing and distribution of books; children
> and teenagers; women's rights; vocational concerns; and jurisprudence.
>
> By promoting the Islamic movement on such a wide variety of fronts,
> the Brotherhood and its allies could multiply exponentially their

> influence. Toward that end, the Akram/Brotherhood =93Explanatory
> Memorandum=94 named the following 29 groups as the organizations they

> believed could collaborate effectively to destroy America from within

> =96 =93if they all march according to one plan=94:

Thanks for an excellent post.

Jason

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 1:43:06 AM2/28/13

to

In article <XnsA174BA14DA7E0...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

Some websites are indicating that portions of Dearborn, Michigan are now
under Sharia law:

<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/12/908879/-How-Dearborn-MI-came-to-be-under-Sharia-Law-Sharon-Angle-how-she-lurned-it-was-so>

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:03:25 AM2/28/13

to

In article <Jason-27021...@66-53-214-17.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Ahhh, another A Jason.

That article mocks those idiotiic right-wing claims. So once again you
posted something without reading it first. Do you EVER get tired of
making yourself the fool?

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:04:09 AM2/28/13

to

In article <Jason-27021...@66-53-214-17.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

That's a lie.

> Have radical Muslims taken control of any other countries in Africa other
> than North Sudan and Somalia?

No. They haven't taken over North Sudan or Somalia, either.

Jason

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:28:19 AM2/28/13

to

In article <hlwdjsd2-1D1CF1...@news.giganews.com>, Jeanne

<http://www.kate-wells.com/kate_wells/2010/06/sharia-law-in-dearborn-michigan.html>

Dakota

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:19:01 AM2/28/13

to

On 2/27/2013 11:49 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

Thanks. The bill did have a few sponsors. I was worried for a while
that it might pass so I wrote my representatives and they assured me
it would not. They were right.

Jason

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:36:11 AM2/28/13

to

<http://www.kate-wells.com/kate_wells/2010/06/sharia-law-in-dearborn-michigan.html>

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:23:56 AM2/28/13

to

In article
<Jason-27021...@66-53-214-110.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Why do we care about another one of your bigoted sites?

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 2:24:28 AM2/28/13

to

In article
<Jason-27021...@66-53-214-110.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

So you posted this piece of bigotry twice. Why?

Alex W.

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 7:20:52 AM2/28/13

to

Slight correction: this is not, strictly speaking, true.

Sharia law, like other religious, foreign and international laws,
is regularly considered in US courts in tort and contract law.
Islamic law has been considered by American courts in everything
from the recognition of foreign divorces and custody decrees to
the validity of marriages, the enforcement of money judgments,
and the awarding of damages in commercial disputes and negligence
matters. For example, a Muslim wife can ask an American court to
enforce the dowry provisions laid down in a Sharia-compliant
marraige contract. In international business deals, contracts
frequently specify the legal jurisdiction under which disputes
between the partners are to be adjudicated; thus, if US Acme Corp
has a deal with Al-Bundi Inc. of Saudi Arabia (shoe retail, since
you ask) an their contract speciies that Saudi law shall apply,
then a US court will have to base their judgment on
sharia-compliant Saudi law.

This, by the bye, applies to all secular and religious laws.
Anglicans and Catholics have ecclesiastical courts, and Jewish
Beth Din courts have been operating in the US for centuries.

The clear limitation to this, as understood by lawyers and
judges, is that the extent of the applicability of foreign law is
ALWAYS dictated by US law. US courts cannot and will not
condone, let alone enforce, religious verdicts such as corporal
punishment or obligatory marital congress because such would
clearly contravene US law.

Alan Ferris

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 10:36:39 AM2/28/13

to

Only idiots read this crap and believe it.

Alan Ferris

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 10:38:28 AM2/28/13

to

You did not read this did you. It shows the exact opposite...DOH! Why do you
always end up proving yourself a complete idiot and unable to read?

Alan Ferris

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 10:39:11 AM2/28/13

to

And your previous link shows this was all wrong....so why are you trying to
look more stupid?

Alan Ferris

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 10:46:28 AM2/28/13

to

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:32:19 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>> > The official religion of Somalia is the Sunni Muslim religion.
>>
>> And has been for hundreds of years. So what?
>
>I clearly stated that radical Muslims could use NORTH SUDAN (not south
>Sudan) as a base country to take over all of the other countries in
>Africa.

Really, how do you expect them to take over countries like South Africa? How
about DR Congo?

Is your ignorance down to not knowing which countries are in Africa or what
religions are predominant in each country?

Christianity has gone from about 40% to almost 50% from 2002 to 2010 in
Africa....so where is your evidence for Muslims taking over "all of the other
countries in Africa"?

Uncle Vic

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 11:00:23 AM2/28/13

to

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-27021...@66-53-214-110.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

>
> <http://www.snipurl>
>

Hey look! A web page thumper!

--
Uncle Vic
aa# 2011
The meaning of life is to find your gift.
The purpose of life is to give it away.

Visit my You Tube Channel!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Vicman6311?feature=mhee

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 1:54:14 PM2/28/13

to

Dare To Inquire: "The Bloody Borders of Islam"
by Bruce Kodish

Political scientist Samuel Huntington has made some interesting
comments on the current state of international politics in which he
trys to explain the disproportionate world-wide involvement of Muslims
in violence and terrorism, what he calls the "bloody borders of
Islam."

Huntington has noted that:
"While groups from all religions have engaged in various forms of
violence and terrorism, the figures make it clear that in the past
decade Muslims have been involved in far more of these activities than
people of other religions. One of the things that attracted a lot of
attention in The Clash of Civilizations was my use of the phrase "the
bloody borders of Islam." But if you look around the Muslim world you
see that in the 1990s Muslims were fighting non-Muslims in Bosnia,
Kosovo, Macedonia, Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kashmir,
Indonesia, the Philippines, the Middle East, Sudan, Nigeria, and other
places. Muslims have been fighting one another also. The International
Institute for Strategic Studies surveyed the armed conflicts going on
in the world in 2000, and its figures show that twenty-three of the
thirty-two conflicts under way involved Muslims.
Why is this?"

For Huntington's complete comments, read Religion, Culture, and
International Conflict After September 11

http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v256/__show_article/_a000256-000091.htm

fasgnadh

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 3:55:12 PM2/28/13

to

Findem Turdbar, the non-sentient atheist gobshite rants hysterically:

Poor Findem demonstrates atheistic values by denouncing freedom of
speech by tiny minorities pursuing unrealistic dreams, even though she
is part of one herself:

> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
> the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
> because they don't agree with the laws of England:

Islamists, a minority group of Islam in the same way that atheists are
a tiny outspoken minority of hate-filled anti-theists among
non-believers, have as much chance of introducing Sharia Law in England
as atheists have of imposing an atheist state there.

And as we all know, the atheist states of the 20th century, which
terrorised tortured and Killed over 80,000,000 people, were far more
deadly than any Islamic state in history!

> News story about Sharia Law advocacy
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g

So ATHEISTS whose atheist states were all totalitarian tyrannies
killing more than ANY religion, are hysterical about news stories
reporting the impossible dream of some other tiny group of nutjobs,
like themselves!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA

Priceless!

# From: sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: alt-atheism.org
# Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:11:51 +0000 (UTC)
# Message-ID: <kg5dfn$ogi$1...@dont-email.me>
#
#
# Fidem's got an excellent website of her own (plug):
#
# http://www.atheistfrontier.com/

Findem is a radical anti-theist whose website calls for the
"Freedom FROM religion" which the atheist state tyrannies IMPOSED on
everyone, to replace the Freedom OF thought, belief and speech we ALL
currently enjoy today in the free open progressive and tolerant secular
democracies which were all creatred by the MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETIES
the anti-theists want to attack.

"Freedom FROM Religion"
- http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/atheism/

As alt.atheism and Findem Turdbars extremist website demonstrate, the
atheist propaganda wing seeks to incite fear and hysteria, and the
hate filled atheists advocate the murder and GENOCIDE of theists;

# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA

Not satisfied with murder, the atheist's 'Warlord'(sic)
advocates GENOCIDE, th murder of 1,600,000,000 men
women and children because of their beliefs;

# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA

> Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M

the largest Muslim nation on earth, Indonesia, is Australia's
nearest neighbour, they are a secular democracy, like us,
and not a sharia state. We worked together after the Bali bombing,
to find capture, bring to trial and execute in Indonesia the tiny
minority of Islamist extremists who threaten INDONESIA's MUSLIMS as much
as they threaten us.

Those failed extremists killed a few hundred people, atheist stsates
killed over 80,000,000

and this anti-theist hysteric Turdbar is trying to incite fear of Muslims!?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHA

So when you hear atheists trying to create fear of the 1.6 Billion
muslims, most of whom do not live in sharia states, nor are they
clamouring for one, remember who is speaking and the totalitarian
tyrannies in whose shadow she stands.

Islam is not a threat in the free world. It has lost territory
and global power over the last centuries, just look at Palestine,
to see how weakened it is after European colonialism of the 18th and
19th centuries.

Our role is to help shattered Islamic nations to achieve democracy,
they are less of a threat to us than nuclear armed atheist states like
North Korea.

> Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
> following.

The vast majority of which want democratic freedoms, not sharia,
as Indonesia, the LARGEST MUSLIM NATION ON EARTH, demonstrates.

But don't let us stop you trying to whip up hysteria because
a small number of Islamists use free speech to express ideas
almost as insane as your 'atheistic values' whic killed over
80,000,000 peoplein the atheist tyrannies of the 20th century..
we know what HYPOCRITES you atheiost propagandists are, and you prove it
by refusing to condemn YOUR atheist warlord who incites MURDER of
theists and advocates the genocide of every Muslim man, woman and child
on earth.

We can see how your hatred of them exceeds the hatred of the tiny
minority of them who match your own brutality.

Ken

unread,

Feb 28, 2013, 4:00:41 PM2/28/13

to

u r welcome

Jeanne Douglas

unread,

Chyeah, right. Do your own damned homework.

Jason

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 12:34:02 AM3/1/13

to

In article <hlwdjsd2-217813...@news.giganews.com>, Jeanne

Be patient, they have operations under way in lots of different countries
and Spain is one of those countries:

<http://atgsociety.com/2011/03/muslims-aim-at-reconquering-spain/>

Jason

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 12:39:27 AM3/1/13

to

In article <hlwdjsd2-B4E20A...@news.giganews.com>, Jeanne

I thought that you liked it when people were fed on a regular basis :-))

<http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/sharias_encroachment_into_american_courts.html>

osugeography

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 12:34:27 AM3/1/13

to

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 4:58:24 AM3/1/13

to

In article
<Jason-01031...@66-53-210-248.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

How are such a small number of countries, most of them quite small,
either in population or area or both, a "good start", especially since
just a few hundred years ago there were more?

Alex W.

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 7:28:28 AM3/1/13

to

He has not.

This canard raised its misshapen head before in this group when
Jason posted it last year (IIRC), and it was comprehensively
debunked back then.

Mitchell Holman

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 8:26:53 AM3/1/13

to

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-01031...@66-53-210-248.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

Compare and contrast:

http://alaninkenya.org/2010/03/20/mormons-in-kenya

http://www.baptistsonmission.org/Projects/Outside-US/Kenya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Kenya

Mitchell Holman

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Mar 1, 2013, 8:42:53 AM3/1/13

to

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-01031...@66-53-210-248.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

Fact check: The fastest growing religion in
the world is.......no religion at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5xHVUs0NOA

Father Haskell

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 3:26:46 PM3/1/13

to

On Feb 28, 11:27 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <hlwdjsd2-5B712B.16530128022...@news.giganews.com>, Jeanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <hbuui8h6r9tak0prijkb54jdae2rssj...@4ax.com>,

> > Alan Ferris <hairy.fer...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:18:26 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > >Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
> > > >news:Jason-27021...@66-53-210-68.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:
>

> > > >> In article <kgm290$p8...@dont-email.me>, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dearborn_Independent

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 5:06:57 PM3/1/13

to

Ken snipped everything he could not refute with facts:
>
> Snipped (as a public service)
to atheist terrorists torturers and mass murderers

<unsnipped as a public service to freedom loving people everywhere>

> On 1/03/2013 7:55 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> Findem Turdbar, the non-sentient atheist gobshite rants hysterically:
>>
>>
>> Poor Findem demonstrates atheistic values by denouncing freedom of
>> speech by tiny minorities pursuing unrealistic dreams, even though she
>> is part of one herself:
>>

>>> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
>>> the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
>>> because they don't agree with the laws of England:
>>

>> Islamists, a minority group of Islam in the same way that atheists are
>> a tiny outspoken minority of hate-filled anti-theists among
>> non-believers, have as much chance of introducing Sharia Law in England
>> as atheists have of imposing an atheist state there.
>>
>> And as we all know, the atheist states of the 20th century, which
>> terrorised tortured and Killed over 80,000,000 people, were far more
>> deadly than any Islamic state in history!
>>

>>> News story about Sharia Law advocacy
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g
>>
>>

Atheism PRETENDS to be merely the non belief in something but it
is IN REALITY an amalgam of Anti-semitism, Islamophobic hatred and
anti-theist violence, as EVERY atheist state and the contemporary
atheist bigots PROVE REPEATEDLY!

European religious authorities historically responded to the
challenge of Islam with the crusades and later with conquest,
Muslim nations were under the control of European Imperialists
and suffered all the problems associated with colonies.

Most of the post WWII conflicts are a result of the borders
defined by European Colonial powers ensuring divide and conquer.

When the Imperial powers retreated, conflicts on ethnic or tribal
division, armed with modern weapons erupted, and religion is
often used, on both sides, to unite the group, as that is one of the
functions religion performs.

Professor Papes study of suicide bombers concludes these POLITICAL
factors, not religion, is the driver of terrorist violence:

"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.

If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?

Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.

Something else is."

- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape

We expect Right wing nutjobs like President Bush and Geert Wilders
to be Islamophobic bigots, but it is disappointing to see atheists
join in the anti-theist witchunts.

Note, even the Catholic Church has, after centuries of distrust,
finally remembered Jesus and recognised Islam as a brother faith,
worshipping the same God.

# "DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH
# TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
#
# NOSTRA AETATE
#
# PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI
# ...
# 3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems.
# They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself;
# merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5)
# who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to
# even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith
# of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God."

Of course the Christian Bible has proclaimed the Unity of God for
millennia, long before there were Christians to argue over it;

"Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad."

"Hear oh Israel, the Lord thy God, the Lord is One!"

"Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me"
(Isaiah 43:10).

I look for the BEST in every religion, and i always find
great beauty and the inspiring determination to UPLIFT
and TRANSFORM self; (in atheism I find only DENIGRATION! 8^o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yrFp0W6g_c

And Islam similarly proclaims it in the Muslim's daily
statement of faith in ONE GOD...

la illaha illa Allah

... based firmly on the Qur'an;

# "And argue not with the People of the Scripture
# unless it be in ( a way) that is better,
# save with such of them as do wrong;
# and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us
# and revealed unto you;
# our God and your God is One,
# and unto Him we surrender."
#
# - The Qur'an Sura 29 verse 46

pope kisses Qur'an

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A055rcKoran.htm

Religion is a force UNITING humanity, atheists have sided with those
who DIVIDE it on lines of primitive BIGOTRY and hate.

>>> Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M
>>

>> the largest Muslim nation on earth, Indonesia, is Australia's
>> nearest neighbour, they are a secular democracy, like us,
>> and not a sharia state. We worked together after the Bali bombing,
>> to find capture, bring to trial and execute in Indonesia the tiny
>> minority of Islamist extremists who threaten INDONESIA's MUSLIMS as much
>> as they threaten us.
>>
>> Those failed extremists killed a few hundred people, atheist stsates
>> killed over 80,000,000
>>
>> and this anti-theist hysteric Turdbar is trying to incite fear of Muslims!?
>>
>> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHA
>>
>> So when you hear atheists trying to create fear of the 1.6 Billion
>> muslims, most of whom do not live in sharia states, nor are they
>> clamouring for one, remember who is speaking and the totalitarian
>> tyrannies in whose shadow she stands.
>>
>> Islam is not a threat in the free world. It has lost territory
>> and global power over the last centuries, just look at Palestine,
>> to see how weakened it is after European colonialism of the 18th and
>> 19th centuries.
>>
>> Our role is to help shattered Islamic nations to achieve democracy,
>> they are less of a threat to us than nuclear armed atheist states like
>> North Korea.
>>

>>> Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a large
>>> following.
>>

>> The vast majority of which want democratic freedoms, not sharia,
>> as Indonesia, the LARGEST MUSLIM NATION ON EARTH, demonstrates.
>>
>> But don't let us stop you trying to whip up hysteria because
>> a small number of Islamists use free speech to express ideas

>> almost as insane as your 'atheistic values' which killed over

>> 80,000,000 peoplein the atheist tyrannies of the 20th century..

>> we know what HYPOCRITES you atheist propagandists are, and you prove it

>> by refusing to condemn YOUR atheist warlord who incites MURDER of
>> theists and advocates the genocide of every Muslim man, woman and child
>> on earth.
>>
>> We can see how your hatred of them exceeds the hatred of the tiny
>> minority of them who match your own brutality.

And Ken, thanks for demonstrating once again that
atheists HAVE NO RATIONAL DEFENCE for their terror, tyranny and
crimes against humanity... all they can do is SNIP AND RUN! B^]

> u r welcome

Now, go stand with mentor in gutless atheism, Bukakke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0kPQiQufpE

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 5:40:06 PM3/1/13

to

jwshe...@satx.rr.com argues "their terror was bigger than ours" B^p :
<unsnip the atheist apologists attempt to distract from atheist
terror by complaining 'others done it too'>

> On 1/03/2013 7:55 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> Findem Turdbar, the non-sentient atheist gobshite rants hysterically:
>>
>> Poor Findem demonstrates atheistic values by denouncing freedom of
>> speech by tiny minorities pursuing unrealistic dreams, even though she
>> is part of one herself:
>>
>>> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London, England and
>>> the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to enforce Sharia Law
>>> because they don't agree with the laws of England:
>>
>> Islamists, a minority group of Islam in the same way that atheists are
>> a tiny outspoken minority of hate-filled anti-theists among
>> non-believers, have as much chance of introducing Sharia Law in England
>> as atheists have of imposing an atheist state there.
>>

>> And as we all know, the atheist states of the 20th century, which
>> terrorised tortured and Killed over 80,000,000 people, were far more
>> deadly than any Islamic state in history!

So to get a sense of perspective, compared to the evidence of atheist
holocausts killing tens of millions in the 'modern era' documented by
historians how many people in the UK have been killed by Sharia Law?

put your answer here;

...........................................................

...........................................................

Instead what we get is not peer reviewed historians soberly assessing
the evidence and producing conservative figures for 80,000,000 killed
in atheist states, we get an atheist islamophobe's website with
guesstimates:

> http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHHAHAHAHAAAA

I have cited conservative figures from peer reviewed HISTORIANS
writing in their field, and you quote an Islamophobic atheist website
by a typical anonymous hate-filled atheist Islamophobe who claims to be
"Bill Warner" a physicist, not a historian and then admits "Bill Warner
is a nom de guerre" ?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAA

> Tears of Jihad

"These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the
political act of jihad".

"rough estimates" = figures pulled the arse of this islamophobic atheist
blogger. B^p

Where is YOUR, or THEIR EVIDENCE from peer reviewed HISTORIANS,
not committed anti-Muslim BIGOTS?

You might as well ask your atheist WARLORD for his OPINION
on "the evils of Islam';

# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA

Not satisfied with murder, the atheist's 'Warlord'(sic)

advocates GENOCIDE, the murder of 1,600,000,000 men

women and children because of their beliefs;

# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA

Here is a summary of peer reviewed data from historical sources cited:

First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;

# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000

* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.

# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]

* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M

######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################

# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):

40 000 000

* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,

1959-61:

+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")

+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths

+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"

+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths

* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)

Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes who made their lives such misery and
despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled from their own evil and
incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck off the filthy atheist
shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path more tolerant of
religion.. since then their nations have prospered.. still suffering
the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of Civilisation and
making progress!!

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 8:20:58 PM3/1/13

to

On Mar 1, 4:06 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

""European religious authorities historically responded to the
challenge of Islam with the crusades"

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
[Paperback]
Robert Spencer (Author)

Book Description
Islam expert Robert Spencer reveals Islam's ongoing, unshakable quest
for global conquest and why the West today faces the same threat as
the Crusaders did--and what we can learn from their experience.

Review
"A clarion call for the defense of the West before it is too late." --
Ibn Warraq, author

"A much-needed antidote to the poisonous propaganda that compromises
our current battle against jihadist murder." -- Bruce Thornton,
historian

"An enormous amount of well-researched material. Throws the ball back
into the camp of Arabist historians." -- Walid Phares, terror analyst

"Assails, with much erudition, the taboos imposed by the Politically
Correct League." -- Bat Ye’or, historian

"The courageous Robert Spencer busts myths and tells truths about
jihadists that no one else will tell." -- Michelle Malkin, bestselling
author and columnist
From the Back Cover
Everything (well, almost everything) you know about Islam and the
Crusades is wrong because most textbooks and popular history books are
written by left-wing academics and Islamic apologists who justify
their contemporary political agendas with contrived historical
"facts." But fear not: Robert Spencer (author of the bestseller Islam
Unveiled) refutes the popular myths in The Politically Incorrect Guide
to Islam (and the Crusades). Spencer reveals facts that you won't be
taught in school and will never hear on the evening news, supplies a
revealing list of "Books You Must Not Read" (as far as the PC left is
concerned), and takes you on a fast-paced politically incorrect tour
of Islamic

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Islam-Crusades/dp/0895260131

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 9:41:00 PM3/1/13

to

On 28/02/2013 5:36 PM, Jason wrote:
> "jwshe...@satx.rr.com" shows how innuendo can create Hysteria:

An atheist mole has revealed the atheist plot;

>> "GENERAL STRATEGIC GOAL" FOR NORTH AMERICA

in October 1918 atheistic Communists established the first Atheist
State, a terrorist state which

>> (a) provided "material support and resources" to a foreign terrorist
>> organization (namely
the KGB

>> (b) >> engaged in
domestic terror torture and murder.

>> (c) breached the
civilised human rights of freedom to think, believe and speak

(d) killed over 40,000,000 of their own population.

(e) committed infanticide, terrorising torturing and killing
the Romanov Children, claiming they were 'Christian despots'
Alexei was 13.

(f) imposed atheistic values by the FORCED INDOCTRINATION of CHILDREN

(g) destroyed churches, temples, mosques and synagogues

(h) Killed and persecuted priests and believers.

These policies were explicitly atheist anti-theism, advocated
and implemented by Lenin Stalin and the entire Politburo of
governing atheists:

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

They also supported the establishment of similar totalitarian atheist
states in Maoist China and Pol Pots Cambodia;

>> likeminded "organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of
>> dismantling American institutions and turning the U.S. into a

part of the atheistic communist International whose goal was

>> eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within
>> and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands

Atheists were
>> well aware that in the U.S., it would be extremely difficult to promote

because atheists despite their various front organisations,
were universally distrusted and even despised:

# Atheists Identified as Americaï¿½s Most Distrusted Minority"
# - American Sociological Association, ASA NEWS
#
# "A survey by sociologists at the University of Minnesota
# found that atheists are ï¿½Americaï¿½s most distrusted minority.ï¿½
#
# "From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households,
# university researchers found that Americans rate atheists
# below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and
# other minority groups in ï¿½sharing their vision of
# American society.ï¿½
#
# Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are
# least willing to allow their children to marry.
#
# Even though atheists are few in number, not formally
# organized and relatively hard to publicly identify,
# they are seen as a threat to the American way of life
# by a large portion of the American public.
#
# Many of the studyï¿½s respondents associated atheism with
# an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal
# behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.
#
# Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting
# social disorder is behind the findings.
# ï¿½Americans believe they share more than rules and
# procedures with their fellow citizensï¿½they share an
# understanding of right and wrong,ï¿½ she said. ï¿½Our
# findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as
# self-interested individuals who are not concerned
# with the common good.ï¿½

So atheists have relied on subterfuge and

>> stealth
>> by incremental, non-confrontational means,

>> the establishment of firmly-rooted organizations
named for 'Humanitarianism' or 'Secularism', or even 'science'
or 'Reason' or sceptics' which had little or nothing to do
with atheism (secular democracies were created by MAJORITY
RELIGIOUS societies, no atheist state was ever democratic)
>> on whose bases civilization, structure and testimony are
>> built
and which could be used as front organisations to give atheism a veneer
of respectability..

>> a shift from the collision
>> mentality to the absorption mentality,meaning that they should
>> abandon any tactics involving defiance or confrontation,

The Old-school atheists who repelled decent people, Lenin, Mao, Steve
Knight, Pol Pot:

>> and seek
>> instead to implant into the larger society a host of seemingly benign
>> groups with ostensibly unobjectionable motives; once those
>> groups had gained a measure of public acceptance, they would be in a
>> position to more effectively promote societal transformation by the
>> old
atheistic
>> Communist technique of 'boring from within.'

>>
>>The heart and the core of this strategy,
>> was contingent upon these groups' ability to develop a mastery >>
>> of the art of 'coalitions.'

eg 'non-believers' or 'humanists' who are acceptable rather than
'atheist' which is anathema to most people.

>> That is, by working synergistically they could
>> complement, augment, and amplify one another's efforts.
>> The big challenge that is ahead of us is how to turn these seeds or
>> 'scattered' elements into comprehensive, stable, 'settled'
>> organizations that are connected with our Movement and which fly in
>> our orbit and take orders from our guidance.
>> The ultimate objective was not only an enlarged
atheist
>> presence, but also implementation of
atheist
>> objectives of transforming pluralistic societies,
>> particularly America,
by
>> sweeping away Western notions of legal equality,
>> freedom of conscience, freedom of religion,
>> and freedom of speech.

as was done by EVERY atheist state in history!!!

Atheists
>> understood that in order to succeed in this
>> endeavor, they needed to appeal to different strata of the American
>> population in different ways; that whereas some people could be
>> influenced by messages delivered from a
humanist
>> perspective, others would be more responsive to messages delivered
>> by educators, or bankers, or political figures, or
scientists or
>> journalists, etc.
>> - the need to form a coalition of groups coming from the worlds of
>> education;
anti-theist proselytization;
>> political activism;
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>>audio and video production; print media;
atheist slogans on T-Shirts and buses;
http://www.thearrogantatheist.com/mensnogod.html
>> banking and finance; the physical sciences;
talks by Dawkins cloaking his Opinions in pseudo scientific waffle,
>> professional and business networking; the social sciences;
having Hitchins slag Mother Theresa,
>> cultural affairs;
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6349?context=latest
>> the publishing and distribution of books;
http://tinyurl.com/4vz4gu9
>> children and teenagers;
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kDyMtZ_dJwQ/SRFIJBheq_I/AAAAAAAAAb0/Ay8c7EHSl8o/s400/santas_grave.jpg

>> women's rights; vocational concerns; and jurisprudence.
>>
>> By promoting
atheism
on such a wide variety of fronts,
atheism
>> and its allies could multiply exponentially their influence.
>> Toward that end, the following
>> groups
>> could collaborate effectively to destroy America from within

8^o

Atheist Alliance International (AAI)
http://www.atheistalliance.org/

Atheist Frontier
http://www.atheistfrontier.com/

BC Humanist Association (BCHA)
http://www.bchumanist.ca/

Centre for Inquiry (International)
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/

Centre for Inquiry (Canada)
http://www.cficanada.ca/

Clergy Project, The - Moving Beyond Faith
http://www.clergyproject.org/

Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF)
http://www.ffrf.org/

Foundation Beyond Belief (humanity at work)
http://www.foundationbeyondbelief.org/

International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU)
http://www.iheu.org/

National Secular Society (NSS)
http://www.secularism.org.uk/

Richard Dawkins Foundation
http://www.richarddawkins.net/

Secular Web, The (a drop of reason in a pool of confusion)
http://www.secularweb.org/

Secular Woman - Breaking through
http://www.secularwoman.org/

Spiritual Reality Therapy
http://www.atheists.net/pages/spirits.html

United COR (United Coalition of Reason)
http://www.unitedcor.org/

http://web.archive.org

Atheist websites claim
"These internet sites are related to atheism."
Some may noit even know they are seen by atheists as
potential front organisations to be infiltrated and subverted,
many of them think they have no connection whatsoever to atheism!

8^o

If you know of a web site that should be included in this list, please
share it with us, so that the targets of the atheist conspiracy can be
warned.

>> By setting up these many front groups, the
atheist central Committee
>> was emulating the
old atheistic
>> Communist Party tactic of creating interlocking front
>> groups during the Cold War in order to confuse its enemies and make it
>> more difficult to combat.

As Lenin said,

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

> Thanks for an excellent post.

You are welcome, Grasshopper,
The price of freedom is Eternal Vigilance.

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 10:06:14 PM3/1/13

to

On 28/02/2013 4:50 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:18:26 -0600

> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
>> news:Jason-27021...@66-53-210-68.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

>>> In article <kgm290$p8k$1...@dont-email.me>, Dakota

>>> <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/27/2013 2:01 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
>>>> goddess wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> Here are two videos that show some controversey in London,
>>>>> England and the hostilities erupting from Islamists trying to
>>>>> enforce Sharia Law because they don't agree with the laws of
>>>>> England:
>>>>>

>>>>> News story about Sharia Law advocacy
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN6CHtGGo4g
>>>>>

>>>>> Violent hostility demonstrated between Muslims and non-Muslims
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M
>>>>>

>>>>> Islam is a serious force to be reckoned with because it has a

>>>>> large following. Don't give up any of your freedoms, and don't
>>>>> let anyone take them away, even in the name of moderation, for
>>>>> any slight amount of freedom lost will likely be gone forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Freedom is a win-win for everyone. Compromise is not the
>>>>> solution because it erodes freedom by favouring intolerance.
>>>>> Insist on the win-win approach and protect freedom for everyone.
>>>>>
>>>> Not much chance of Sharia being part of US law. A handful of
>>>> Religions loons in the South Dakota legislature tried to pass a law
>>>> forbidding judges to use Sharia as a legal standard. Even in this
>>>> red state, the silly law was soundly rejected as unnecessary.
>>>
>>> <http://townhall.com/tipsheet/chrisfield/2011/03/23/shariah_law_in_amer
>>> ica_the_islamists_plan_to_destroy_us_from_within>
>>
>> No part of the US has any Shariah law
>> being practiced. None.

True, but look at how the atheists assault the freedom to believe!!

Their slogan is not Freedom OF religion, the secular goal, but
FREEDOM *FROM* RELIGION! 8^o

Just like in every atheist state in history:

# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodiaï¿½s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Potï¿½s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
or http://fuentesdehistoria.blogspot.com.au/2010/05/genocidio-camboyano.html
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JcIj9INFBtg/S_T7Po6s4lI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/odgpEgCWCo4/s1600/44camboyano.jpg

#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

In the USA the majority religious society created secular democracy, the
separation of Church and state to prevent any ONE faith or ideology from
dominating and potentially oppressing all the others.. which is what
some theocracies and every atheist state did.

> That's because the USA values human rights at the constitutional level.

Sure it's a secular democracy built by a majority religious
population.. if you want to see a REAL totalitarian state
denying it's people freedom just look at EVERY atheist state
in history. NONE of them were a democracy

Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation on earth, it's a secular
democracy.

Name ONE atheist state that was a secular democracy allowing freedom?

................................................

If you can't then why would anyone listen to atheists
trying to create fear and hysteria about Muslims>

In the USA, which group tries to use front organisations and
legal actions to curb the freedom of people to celebrate
Christmas, or pray.. or express their beliefs in any public manner?

Is it Muslims or Atheists who try to shut down Christmas pageants?

> Ha ha! Interesting.
>

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 1, 2013, 11:04:42 PM3/1/13

to

On 1/03/2013 5:54 AM, jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>
> Political scientist

B^D

Discredited Islamophobic hysteric:

> Samuel Huntington

The "clash of Civilisations'!?

Rejected by Christian leaders in the civilised world.

Not even Bush, while invading Iraq, let that furphy run;

"We are not in a war on Islam."

The USA could not have gone into Afghanistan and Iraq without Turkey
(Muslim and NATO) and Pakistan (The Muslim nation that really did have
WMD's but was a necessary 'ally' and staging post).

Your attempts to make ALL Muslims the object of fear and hysteria only
plays into the hands of the Islamofascists and terrorists.

You alienate the very people who have been successful allies in fighting
Islamofascist terror, moderate Muslims.

It will be interesting to see how many atheists
salute your Islamophobic propaganda.

We worked WITh the largest Muslim nation on earth, Indonesia, to
bring the tiny number of Islamofaascist suicide bombers to
trial and justice. Why would that surprise anyone?

More Muslims are killed by Islamofascists than any other group.

And what is THIS horseshit:

> the disproportionate world-wide involvement of Muslims
> in violence and terrorism,

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA

WWI and World war two - Muslim involvement; a mere sideshow!

Atheist regime holocausts: 80,000,000!!

Muslim involvement? victims of atheist crimes against humanity.

Prof Robert Pape, a distinguished academic whose work has been
funded by the Pentagon, and whose views are so respected
by the US Military that he taught at Dartmouth and 'air power
strategy' at the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower Studies,
conducted the ONLY study of the MOTIVATION of suicide bombers,
and thus he doesn't GUESS like Bush did, he UNDERSTANDS
what THE BOMBERS say are their reasons!!!

"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.

If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?

Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.

Something else is."

- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape

"The evidence shows that the presence of American troops
is clearly the pivotal factor driving suicide terrorism."

"A study by University of Chicago political scientist
Robert Pape of 462 suicide-terrorist attacks between
1980 and 2004 worldwide found the overwhelming reason
for the attacks was a clear political objective and
in more than 95 per cent of the cases the "central
objective" was the eviction of foreign troops.

"Before our invasion, Iraq never had a suicide-terrorist
attack in its history. Never. Since our invasion,
suicide terrorism has been escalating rapidly with 20
attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004, and over 50 in just the
first five months of 2005. Every year that the United
States has stationed 150,000 combat troops in Iraq,
suicide terrorism has doubled."

The Bush administration knows this, but avoids the truth;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg

Of course if you hysterically incite hatred of ALL Muslims for the acts
of a tiny unrepresentative few, (which have KILLED MORE MUSLIMS
THAN ANYONE ELSE!) and invade Iraq, a Muslim nation ruled by
a socialist dictator who shot Al Qaida on sight, (rivals to his own
power), on a pretext of WMD's (when none were there) killing innocent
civilians, including women and children, then you might PROVOKE
what Huntington and jwsheffield want so badly:

# "Mohammed Khan the ringleader, of the London bombings
# of 7/7 declared in his martyrdom video says clearly
# what his central motive was "to punish Britain for
# atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other Muslim nations"
#
# Hussein Osma, July 21 would-be bomber said in his interrogation;
#
# 'This was not about religion, this was about Iraq,
# we watched videos of western military atrocities in Iraq'"
# - Prof. Robert Pape, "Dying to Win"

Yeah, we all saw those videos, of people like jwsheffield and
Huntington abusing naked Muslim prisoners at Abu Graib
because of this sort of barbaric prejudice and hatred:

> the "bloody borders of
insanity.

> "While groups from all religions have engaged in various forms of
> violence and terrorism,

those groups were ATYPICAL of the vast majority of religious followers,
and those religions also created great and enduring civilisations,

atheist states, on the other hand produced nothing of value, not even
a decent democracy, just 80,000,000 terrorised, tortured and dead.

> the figures make it clear that in the past
> decade Muslims have been involved in far more of these activities than
> people of other religions.

You can't fudge the facts by cherry picking your dates.

In the past 100 years, a more representative period, atheism committed
terror and crimes against humanity on a far greater scale.

ditto the past 1000 years.

So Huntingtons arguments actually show a GREATER threat of *Atheism*
warring on civilisation!

B^p

> One of the things that attracted a lot of
> attention in The Clash of Civilizations was

the way simple minds believe simplistic explanations, unless they
look below the surface of base propaganda lies.

Australia has a border with Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation
on earth, Europe has a border with Turkey a Muslim member of NATO,
we have no problems with Muslims as neighbours or part of our
multicultural, multiethnic and multifaith society...
which reveals the LIE of:

> my use of the phrase "the bloody borders of Islam."

Seems like the problem with 'others' is YOURS.

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 12:23:15 AM3/2/13

to

On Mar 1, 10:04 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Europe has a border with Turkey a Muslim member of NATO,
we have no problems with Muslims as neighbours or part of our
multicultural, multiethnic and multifaith society... "

Turkish Invasion and Cyprus Occupation

http://www.cyprusnet.com/content.php?article_id=2794&subject=standalone

On 15 July 1974 the ruling military junta of Greece staged a coup to
overthrow the democratically elected Government of Cyprus.

On 20 July Turkey, using the coup as a pretext, invaded Cyprus,
purportedly to restore constitutional order. Instead, it seized 35% of
the territory of Cyprus in the north, an act universally condemned as
a gross infringement of international law and the UN Charter. Turkey,
only 75 km away, had repeatedly claimed, for decades before the
invasion and frequently afterwards, that Cyprus was of vital strategic
importance to it. Ankara has defied a host of UN resolutions demanding
the withdrawal of its occupation troops from the island.

On 1 November 1974, the UN General Assembly unanimously adopted
Resolution 3212, the first of many resolutions calling for respect for
the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment
of the Republic of Cyprus and for the speedy withdrawal of all foreign
troops.

Furthermore, the General Assembly, the Security Council and the
Commission on Human Rights of the United Nations as well as the Non-
Aligned Movement, the Commonwealth, the European Parliament, the
Council of Europe and other international organizations have demanded
the urgent return of the refugees to their homes in safety and the
full restoration of all the human rights of the population of Cyprus.

The invasion and occupation has had disastrous consequences. About
142.000 Greek Cypriots living in the north – nearly one quarter of the
population of Cyprus – were forcibly expelled from the occupied
northern part of the island where they constituted 80% of the
population. These people are still deprived of the right to return to
their homes and properties. A further 20.000 Greek Cypriots enslaved
in the occupied area were gradually forced through intimidation and
denial of their basic human rights to abandon their homes. Today there
are fewer than 600 enslaved persons (Greek Cypriots and Maronites).

The invasion also had a disastrous impact on the Cyprus economy
because 30% of the economically active population became unemployed
and because of the loss of:

70% of the gross output
65% of the tourist accommodation capacity and 87% of hotel beds
under construction
83% of the general cargo handling at Famagusta port
40% of school buildings
56% of mining and quarrying output
41% of livestock production
8% of agricultural exports
46% of industrial production
20% of the state forests

Furthermore, Turkish forces occupied an area which accounted for 46%
of crop production and much higher percentages of citrus fruit
production (79%), cereals (68%), tobacco (100%), carobs (86%) and
green fodder (65%).

About 1.500 Greek Cypriot civilians and soldiers disappeared during
and after the invasion. Many had been arrested and some were seen in
prisons in Turkey and Cyprus before their disappearance. The fate of
all but a handful remains unknown. To resolve this humanitarian issue
it is essential to have Turkey’s cooperation.

Turkey has also promoted the demographic change of the occupied
territory through the implantation of Anatolian settlers. Since the
invasion some 115.000 Turks from Turkey have been illegally imported
in the occupied area. This large influx of settlers has negatively
affected the living conditions of the Turkish Cypriots. Poverty and
unemployment has forced over 55.000 to emigrate and they now make up
only 11% of the native population.

35.000 Turkish soldiers equipped with the latest weapons and supported
by the Turkish air force and navy, are still in the occupied area
making it, according to the UN Secretary-General’s Report (December
1995), 'one of the most densely militarized areas in the world'.

The illegal regime in the occupied area has pursued a deliberate
policy aimed at destroying and plundering the ancient cultural and
historical heritage of the island, as part of a wider goal to
'Turkify' the island and erases all evidence of its Cypriot character.
Abundant evidence gathered from foreign and Turkish Cypriot press, as
well as evidence obtained from other authoritative sources (Jacques
Deli bard’s UNESCO report); demonstrate the magnitude of the damage
and destruction caused to the cultural heritage of Cyprus.

As a consequence of Turkey’s policy and illegal actions:

at least 55 churches have been converted into mosques
another 50 churches and monasteries have been converted into
stables, stores, hostels, museums, or have been demolished
the cemeteries of at least 25 villages have been desecrated and
destroyed
innumerable icons, religious artifacts and all kinds of
archaeological treasures have been stolen and smuggled abroad
illegal excavations and smuggling of antiquities is openly taking
place all the time with the involvement of the occupying forces
all Greek place names contrary to all historical and cultural
reason were converted into Turkish ones.

In this respect, the Republic of Cyprus is making great efforts to
recover stolen items which include invaluable icons, frescoes,
mosaics, texts and artifacts. A successful case of repatriation
involved the 6th century mosaics that were illegally removed from the
church of Panayia Kanakaria in the occupied areas and sold to an art
dealer in the USA. Following a legal battle that generated world
attention, the US Courts ruled that the mosaics should be returned to
their legal owner, the Church of Cyprus. Similar legal battles are now
under way in the Federal Republic of Germany, where Cyprus is striving
to repatriate hundreds of items stolen from churches in the occupied
part of Cyprus.

In contrast to the total disrespect shown by the occupation regime,
all Muslim sites in the area controlled by the Government of Cyprus
are properly and respectfully kept, preserved and maintained by the
competent authorities.

On 15 November 1983 the Turkish-occupied area was unilaterally
declared an independent “state”. The international community, through
UN Security Council Resolutions 541 of 1983 and 550 of 1984, condemned
this unilateral declaration by the Turkish Cypriot regime, declared it
both illegal and invalid, and called for its immediate revocation. To
this day, no country in the world except Turkey has recognized this
spurious entity. Negotiations for the solution of the Cyprus problem
have been going on intermittently since 1975 under the auspices of the
United Nations. The basis for the solution of the Cyprus problem are
the UN Security Council resolutions and two high-level agreements
concluded between the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot leaders in
1977 and 1979.

In an effort to enhance the prospects for a settlement and safeguard
the security of all Cypriots, the Government of Cyprus had formally
proposed the total demilitarization of Cyprus. The proposal envisaged
the withdrawal of the 35,000 Turkish occupying forces and the
disbanding of the Cyprus National Guard and the “Turkish Cypriot Armed
Forces” who would hand their weapons and military equipment to UN
Peace-Keeping Force (UNFICYP). UNFICYP would have the right of
inspection to ascertain compliance with these measures. Turkey refused
to consider the proposal and continues to maintain its illegal
military hold on the island.

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 12:27:09 AM3/2/13

to

The Clash of Civilizations
and the Remaking of World Order [Paperback]
Samuel P. Huntington (Author)

A REVOLUTIONARY TREATISE, NOT HEEDED
By Gary Kern
Format:Paperback|Amazon Verified Purchase
Reading this 1996 publication after 9/11/2001, the onset of the War on
Terror and the US experiment in "regime change" and "nation building,"
one cannot but be amazed at the accuracy of its prognostication and
the degree to which its advice was not heeded. The basic thesis of the
book is that it is impossible to impose Western political, religious
and cultural values on non-Western countries. A most astonishing proof
of this thesis is the first Gulf War of 1990, waged by the United
States against Iraq. To Western eyes it was an entirely just war,
backed up by a coalition of Arab states, which succeeded in stopping
Saddam Hussein from invading a weaker sovereign state, Kuwait. But, as
Huntington shows, it was roundly condemned by public opinion in the
Middle East as an imperialist intervention in domestic affairs, a
threatening show of military force and a war of the West against all
Arabs and all Muslims. The good war, even altruistic war, backfired.
Undertaken to protect the life and property of an Arab state, it
provoked fear and hatred in the Arab world and empowered the defeated
aggressor, whose prestige gained in neighboring states.

On the basis of such examples, Huntington draws the painful conclusion
that we (as Westerners) cannot universalize rights and principles that
we hold dear and apply them to other peoples, governments and states
that do not observe them. To do so, he warns, is false, immoral and
dangerous. He asserts toward the close of his book: "Western
intervention in the affairs of other civilizations is probably the
single most dangerous source of instability and potential global
conflict in a multicivilizational world." He advances an "abstention
rule": that core states of one civilization abstain from intervening
in the conflicts of other civilizations. He proposes that a constant
seeking for common values, practices and institutions among different
peoples, states and civilizations is the key to peace and world order
in the realignment of nations taking place after the end of the Cold
War.

THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS was a bestselling book that was widely
discussed and debated throughout America--in the popular media, in the
halls of academe and in the chambers of government. Henry Kissinger
endorsed it. Zbigniew Brzezinski called it revolutionary. Presumably
every reader of FOREIGN AFFAIRS, where Huntington's initial statement
was published, studied the book. This means all the world analysts in
the Department of State, the Department of Defense and the Cabinet. It
is hard to imagine another publication that had a greater chance of
influencing US foreign policy. And yet, as the US prepared to go to
war for a second time against Iraq, then went to war and got stuck,
every single argument, proof and piece of advice packed into its
nearly 400 pages was forgotten or ignored. All that was left was a
catch-phrase, "clash of civilizations," which was denied and almost
always misused.

Contrary to one of the reviews on this page, there is nothing
simplistic about this book. The concepts of "civilization," "core
state" and "fault-line war" are put forward with precise definitions,
reasoned exposition and pertinent historical examples buttressed by
statistical data and a full scholarly apparatus. Balkan politics are
discussed in exacting detail, Chinese and Central Asian politics as
well. Islamic militancy is examined with unflinching objectivity.
Distinctions are drawn between domestic multiculturalism and foreign
universalism which are hairsplitting, but crucial. The writing abounds
in classifications and qualifications; often tedious, but often capped
with a memorable maxim: "The great beneficiaries of the war of
civilizations are those civilizations who abstained from it."

For me, the discussions of post-Soviet Russia and Eastern Europe are
most instructive: "People could no longer identify as Communists,
Soviet citizens or Yugoslavs, and desperately needed to find new
identities. They found them in the old standbys of ethnicity and
religion. The repressive but peaceful order of states committed to the
proposition that there is no god was replaced by the violence of
people committed to different gods." The presentation of
civilizational alignments in the Afghan war of 1979-1989, the
Tadzhikistan war of 1992 and the Chechen wars beginning in 1994
provides the background for ongoing conflicts today. The analysis of
Sino-Russian politics and prospects brings us right up to the moment.

The failure of this book to prevent the very thing it warned against
is very troubling and raises questions about the real impact of public
discourse today. No doubt it is too much to ask power-mongers to re-
read it, but for us mere mortals it is essential. We may not be able
to change the world, but we at least want to understand it.

http://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/1451628978

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 1:11:11 AM3/2/13

to

Well, that's that then! B^D

If you believe that example of cherry picked data FROM
SELECTED bits of the world, {SNICKER} THEN the threat
to the globe is being over run by Non Religious people!

B^D

Of course that's bad news for atheists because they are just
4% of the US non-religious.

Oh BTW, congratulations to Jeanne for demolishing Jason's idiocy.

Opposing bigots takes precedence over challenging atheism. ;-)

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 1:47:12 AM3/2/13

to

You're thinking of anti-theists or theists who want to put a stop to
competing systems of faith.

[snip]

> > That's because the USA values human rights at the constitutional
> > level.
>
> Sure it's a secular democracy built by a majority religious
> population..

...it was built with secular intentions, which brings to light some
doubts about where their religious loyalties lie -- were they being
totally faithful to their religious doctrine? What justification could
they possibly have had to favour secular intentions over religious ones?

> if you want to see a REAL totalitarian state denying
> it's people freedom just look at EVERY atheist state in history.
> NONE of them were a democracy

Democracy is a political system. Secularism is a policy. It is
possible to have either one in a society without the other.

> Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation on earth, it's a secular
> democracy.

Indonesia is an oppressive regime that is anything but secular. They
permit citizens to choose one of five religious affiliations, and not
choosing one of those five is a criminal act that will land a person in
prison, hence the choice of many other religions or abstaining from
choosing (because "atheism" also isn't an option) is illegal there.

> Name ONE atheist state that was a secular democracy allowing freedom?

Your question is incoherent.

> ................................................
>
> If you can't then why would anyone listen to atheists
> trying to create fear and hysteria about Muslims>

That argument is a non-sequitur fallacy.

> In the USA, which group tries to use front organisations and
> legal actions to curb the freedom of people to celebrate
> Christmas, or pray.. or express their beliefs in any public manner?

I'm a Canadian in Canada. Can you provide the answer to that question?

> Is it Muslims or Atheists who try to shut down Christmas pageants?

My guess is that it would be people who don't like Christmas. There's
a similar group who try to shut down Hallowe'en too, some of whom claim
that it's for religious reasons and others who just don't like it (the
kids should be encouraged to have fun on Hallowe'en, so shutting it
down would simply be "mean spirited").

> > Ha ha! Interesting.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"The phantom of the opera is there, inside your mind..."
-- Andrew Lloyd Weber

Mitchell Holman

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 7:54:45 AM3/2/13

to

fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:ZJgYs.3979$1k5.3425
@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com:

> On 2/03/2013 12:42 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
>> news:Jason-01031...@66-53-210-248.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:
>>
>>> In article <hlwdjsd2-0AB423...@news.giganews.com>, Jeanne
>>> Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> <Jason-28021...@66-53-209-137.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
>>>> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <hlwdjsd2-217813...@news.giganews.com>,
>>>>> Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be patient, they have operations under way in lots of different
>>>>> countries and Spain is one of those countries:
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://atgsociety.com/2011/03/muslims-aim-at-reconquering-spain/>
>>>>
>>>> Not interested in your stupid paranoid fantasies.
>>>
>>> Wikipedia claims that there are about 49 Muslim-majority countries.
>>> That means that Muslims are off to a good start on their goal of
>>> taking over the entire earth.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Fact check: The fastest growing religion in
>> the world is.......no religion at all.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5xHVUs0NOA
>
>
> Well, that's that then! B^D
>
> If you believe that example of cherry picked data FROM
> SELECTED bits of the world, {SNICKER} THEN the threat
> to the globe is being over run by Non Religious people!
>

The posted proof proves you wrong, deal with it.

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 9:35:58 AM3/2/13

to

On 2/03/2013 5:47 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> On 2/03/2013 2:06 PM, fasgnadh wrote:> On 28/02/2013 4:50 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

Yes, anti-theist atheists, you promote Freedom *From* Religion
on your website, proving that atheists are, as you say, anti-theist...

"Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF)"

http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/atheism/

.. not only do you call this one of the 'Atheism resources' but it is
clearly a LIE, for which you present no evidence :

"The history of Western civilization shows us that most social and moral
progress has been brought about by persons free from religion."

A complete lie, atheists hardly figure in human history...

As the history of Civilisation from it's beginning at Gobekli Tepe
11,000 years ago to the evolution of progressive secular democracies
by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies proves, most social and moral,
intellectual and economic, scientific and technological progress
has been brought about by theists.. the only time atheist states
arose, they were TOTALITARIAN TYRANNIES which REGRESSED humanity back
into primitive barbarism, and then FAILED catastrophically.

Your websites baseless OPINIONS are proven to be false by even
a cursory review of HISTORY, lack of evidence means your argument
FAILS..

>> Just like in every atheist state in history:

> [snip]

Don't snip the FACTS just because YOU HAVE NONE, and mine
reveal the TRUTH about atheist states correlating 100%
with TYRANNY;

>>> That's because the USA values human rights at the constitutional level.
>>
>>
>> Sure it's a secular democracy built by a majority religious
>> population..

> ...it was built with secular intentions,

By Religious societies in EVERY CASE... Never by any of the atheist states.

> which brings to light some doubts about where their religious
> loyalties lie

No it doesn't! Do you even know what 'Secular' means?

Religious populations understood that if ONE religion (or ideology)
was aligned to the power of the State, it could OPPRESS ALL THE OTHERS.
(which had happened in some theocracies and EVERY totalitarian state,
including Nazis and atheist states.

Separation of Church/ideology and State ENSURES religious freedom.

Atheist states had no secular separation, and no freedom.

The USA is a secular state, there is NO doubt about where the
majority of it's peoples religious loyalties lie. 75% are believers.
only 1.7% are atheists

Are all atheists as ignorant as you?

> -- were they being totally faithful to their religious doctrine?

Explain why you think the religious societies responsible for EVERY
secular democracy were not being faithful to their religious doctrines?

> What justification could they possibly have had to favour
> secular intentions over religious ones?

They don't, there is no conflict between them, SECULARISM was evolved
by RELIGIOUS because it PROTECTS their Freedoms to believe and think
and speak ... how amny times does this have to be explained to you?

Look it's simple.. just consire the facts and the logical conclusions
will take care of themselves, for sane and rational folk;

EVERY SECULAR STATE WAS BUILT BY A MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETY!!!
Atheist states were not secular, atheist beliefs and ideology were
NOT separate from State Power;

>> if you want to see a REAL totalitarian state
>> denying it's people freedom just look at EVERY atheist state
>> in history. NONE of them were a democracy

Note how Findem Turdbar responds to compelling facts which
prove the failure of atheist states with irrelevant OPINIONS

> Democracy is a political system. Secularism is a policy.

So what? The important factor is the one you seem COMPLETELY
INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING: BOTH OF THEM WERE BUILT *ONLY*
by MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies.. atheist states were neither
secular NOR democratic!!

Capice?

> It is
> possible to have either one in a society without the other.

Why the fuck would you idiots want that?

Besides atheists proved themselves INCAPABLE of producing EITHER ONE!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

Logical thought and rational argument really are not your forte, are they?

>
>> Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation on earth, it's a secular
>> democracy.
>

> They permit citizens to choose

sure, choosing a government is DEMOCRACY, dimwit

And there is separation of Church and state, so they are secular.

Like Australia, Canada, all of Europe, the USA, etc etc..

Next point, Oh I see you couldn't find one:

>> Name ONE atheist state that was a secular democracy allowing freedom?
> >

>> ................................................

Oh look, it failed.. as did atheism!

> Your question is incoherent.

No, that would be your answer! B^]

So you can't name a SINGLE atheist state that was secular, a democracy
or allowed freedom!

That's because THERE WERE NONE IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY! B^p

Why would ANY intelligent person take atheism seriously?

>> If you can't then why would anyone listen to atheists
>> trying to create fear and hysteria about Muslims>
>
> That argument

It's not an argument you moron, IT'S A QUESTION,
another one which you clearly can't answer.

There seems little point discussing anything with you,
you can't defend atheism from any of it's demonstrated
deficiencies and seem to struggle with basic
terms like 'secular'. pfffft!

>
>> In the USA, which group tries to use front organisations and
>> legal actions to curb the freedom of people to celebrate
>> Christmas, or pray.. or express their beliefs in any public manner?
>

>> Is it Muslims or Atheists who try to shut down Christmas pageants?

> I'm a Canadian in Canada.

And you don't know enough about the USA to know that atheists
shut down Christmas pageants?

> Can you provide the answer to that question?

Sure, you are clueless.

> My guess is that it would be people who don't like Christmas.

Yeah, atheists.

> so shutting it down would simply be "mean spirited".

yes, that describes atheism well:

# From: "John Fraser" <jfr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
# Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.atheism
# Subject: Merry Christmas
# Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:21:03 -0400
# Message-ID: <4953abb6$1$5460$9a56...@news.aliant.net>
#
# Hello Folks;
#
# I'd like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas
# and a safe holiday season. Phil 4:8.
#
# Cheers,
# John

# From: Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
# Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:24:01 -0500
# Message-ID: <o07dl41sa4t4jhof3...@4ax.com>
#
# "go fuck yourself with your crucifix in a drill chuck'.

>>> Ha ha! Interesting.

Not really it's like talking to a lobotomised sponge.

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 10:13:21 AM3/2/13

to

Proof?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

It mentions a HANDFUL of mostly European states
and doesn't even include China which, ALONE
has 300,000,000 new believers since it reformed
it's constitution in 1982 to allow greater religious
freedom:

"With the gradual liberalisation that developed with
Deng Xiaoping's open door reforms, religion was no
longer proscribed. In 1982, the constitution was
amended to allow Chinese people considerable freedom
of religion."

http://cbbc.org/china_guide/religion.html

"At the first world Buddhism forum in East China's Zhejiang
Province last year, the Chinese government acknowledged
the active role religion plays in building a harmonious society."

"For example, religious beliefs have helped cut down crime
to a large extent,"

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm

"religion has been enjoying a resurgence in China over the
past 20 years, as Communist Party disapproval has eased"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6337627.stm

"Religious believers thrice the estimate
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)

"A survey has found that the number of religious believers
is three times bigger than the official estimate.

The poll of about 4,500 people, conducted by professors Tong
Shijun and Liu Zhongyu of Shanghai-based East China Normal
University from 2005 till recently, found that 31.4 percent
of Chinese aged 16 and above or about 300 million are religious."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-02/07/content_802994.htm

Incredible! in just a few short years the new converts from
atheism In JUST ONE COUNTRY, far outnumber the slow increase
in tiny atheist numbers in the rest of the WORLD! B^D

proves you wrong, deal with it.

B^D

Immortalist

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 1:23:05 PM3/2/13

to

>
> >> So ATHEISTS whose atheist states were all totalitarian tyrannies
> >> killing more than ANY religion, are hysterical about news stories
> >> reporting the impossible dream of some other tiny group of nutjobs,
> >> like themselves!
>
> >> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
>
> >> Priceless!
>

The God Question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WWXTpH0E0

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 2:36:44 PM3/2/13

to

http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/

Tears of Jihad

These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the
political act of jihad.

Africa

Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p.
188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic
and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and
the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates
of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David
Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached a plantation,
five others were killed in the initial raid or died of illness and
privation on the forced march.[Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions,
David Livingstone, p. 62, 1888] Those who were left behind were the
very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since the
main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for 25 million slaves
delivered to the market, we have an estimated death of about 120
million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.

120 million Africans

Christians

The number of Christians martyred by Islam is 9 million [David B.
Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200,
William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] . A rough estimate by
Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another 50 million died
in wars by jihad. So counting the million African Christians killed in
the 20th century we have:

60 million Christians

Hindus

Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million
Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst,
Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The
country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to
jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the
“funeral pyre of the Hindus.”

80 million Hindus

Buddhists

Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in
jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis
(servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed
the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in
India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M.
Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library,
2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]

10 million Buddhists

Jews

Oddly enough there were not enough Jews killed in jihad to
significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad
in Arabia was 100 percent effective, but the numbers were in the
thousands, not millions. After that, the Jews submitted and became the
dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have
geographic political power.

This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.

fasgnadh

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Mar 2, 2013, 4:45:42 PM3/2/13

to

On 3/03/2013 7:59 AM, Syd M. wrote:
> On Mar 2, 7:10 am, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
>> On 02-March-2013 7:16 PM, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>>
>>> In article <apcrdoFkjt...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 02-March-2013 9:54 AM, Ken wrote:
>>>>> u r welcome
>>
>>>> noted that atheists can't deal with facts
>>> What facts are you talking about?
>>
>> The arguments based on fact in fasgnadh's posts
>>
>>
>
> What 'facts'?

atheists never have any, nor see any:

jwshe...@satx.rr.com argues "their terror was bigger than ours" B^p :
<unsnip the atheist apologists attempt to distract from atheist
terror by complaining 'others done it too'>

> On 1/03/2013 7:55 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> Findem Turdbar, the non-sentient atheist gobshite rants hysterically:
>>
>>

fasgnadh

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Mar 2, 2013, 4:50:10 PM3/2/13

to

On 3/03/2013 5:22 AM, Immoralist wrote:
> On 2/03/2013 9:06 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> Ken snipped everything he could not refute:

> The God Question

Why do atheists talk about God when their crimes
against humanity are being discussed?

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 7:59:01 PM3/2/13

to

On 3/03/2013 8:50 AM, Syd M. snipped and lied:

<unsnip>
> On 3/03/2013 8:45 AM, fasgnadh wrote:
>> On 3/03/2013 7:59 AM, Syd M. snipped and lied:

>>> On Mar 2, 7:10 am, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>> On 02-March-2013 7:16 PM, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <apcrdoFkjt...@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>> felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On 02-March-2013 9:54 AM, Ken wrote:
>>>>>>> u r welcome
>>>>
>>>>>> noted that atheists can't deal with facts
>>>>> What facts are you talking about?
>>>>
>>>> The arguments based on fact in fasgnadh's posts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What 'facts'?
>>
>> atheists never have any, nor see any:

they snip them and then lie, claiming there are none,
as Syd just did...

> It is YOU that have no facts,

Why do you atheists always SNIP them and then LIE about it:

That makes Syd a LIAR and an

> arrogant asshole.
>
> PDW
>

fasgnadh

unread,

Mar 2, 2013, 8:23:20 PM3/2/13

to

casey wrote:

> Why do you put all atheists in the same basket?

I don't. If they all snip and run from the facts,
as you did, THEY choose to act alike.

Why do atheists always snip the facts presented, ignore
the questions those facts raise and then try to change the subject.

> Should you be put in the same basket as those who murdered
> all those people in the twin towers?

No, why would you attempt to do so.. and why do you snip
the issues under discussion and try to change the subject?

> Just because someone doesn't believe there is evidence for
> the existence of your version of god

I'm an agnostic, why do you assume I have a version of God
just because I criticise atheism for being mindless and
acting on ignorant dogmatism, as you jsut demonstrated?

> doesn't mean they believe in an atheist state
> without freedom

I never claimed they all did. But here's the consistent
pattern: I provide evidence that EVERY atheist state
in history has been a totalitarian tyranny and all the
freee open and progressive secular democracies which even the
atheist hypocrites prefer to live in, were built by MAJORITY
RELIGIOUS societies... and atheists INVARIABLY do, as you have done..
SNIP AND IGNORE THE FACTS PRESENTED, REFUSE To CONSIDER THE OBVIOUS
IMPLICATIONS, TRY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT, PROJECT DISINFORMATION
AND LIES ABOUT MY non-existent 'RELIGIOUS" MOTIVES and thus
act to defend the atheist tyrannies from my valid criticism and ATTACK
ME, the whistleblower... thus making yourself COMPLICIT.

You stand in the same relation to the atheist holocausts as the
Nazi holocaust deniers do to theirs.

Shame.

> for you to have those beliefs.

What beliefs, I'm an agnostic discussing the atheist crimes against
humanity, you are just another complicit atheist slandering me in order
to defend the atheist states under discussion.

Why lie about me and try to change the subject?

Are you ashamed of the history of atheism, EVERY atheist
state being a TOTALITARIAN TYRANNY, terrorising torturing and killing
over 80,000,000 people!?

How do you explain the 100% correlation between Atheist states and TYRANNY.

Compare it to the creation of great and enduring civilisations by
theists, if you wish;

# From: raven1 <quotht...@nevermore.com>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: Re: Anyone seen Hysteria, Abu Baker Bashir and Kelsey
Bjarnyard? B^D
# Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:15:11 -0500
# Message-ID: <87ttk498t9sueojr7...@4ax.com>
#
# There has never been a "Great, Enduring Atheist Civilization"

> It only becomes a problem when you try to
> impose your set of beliefs on others.

My beliefs?

I presented you with FACTS about atheist regimes which FORCIBLY
INDOCTRINATED CHILDREN, SENT DISSIDENTS TO GULAGS OR DEATH,
and killed over 80,000,000 people

and you MANUFACTURE PROPAGANDA LIES to DEFEND THEM AND
ATTACK ME!???

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Has anything CHANGED in atheism?

Do you know what COMPLICIT means?

Go stand with the Holocaust deniers for Nazism! B^[

jwshe...@satx.rr.com

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Mar 3, 2013, 12:42:41 AM3/3/13

to

On Mar 2, 7:23 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"killed over 80,000,000 people"
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TQBFHTDDGV8CBQ6F9

Muslims killed 80 million Hindus to conquer India

Will Durant, the famous historian summed it up like this:
"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in
history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that
civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and
freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by
barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."

Koenraad Elst , the german historian writes in "Negation in India"

The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a
pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the
populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every
campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader
made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest
of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of
the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e.
Hindu slaughter. The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made
it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on
other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left
the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on.

As a contribution to research on the quantity of the Islamic crimes
against humanity, we may mention that the Indian (subcontinent)
population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of
Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate)..

But the Indian Pagans were far too numerous and never fully
surrendered. What some call the Muslim period in Indian history, was
in reality a continuous war of occupiers against resisters, in which
the Muslim rulers were finally defeated in the 18th century. Against
these rebellious Pagans the Muslim rulers preferred to avoid total
confrontation, and to accept the compromise which the (in India
dominant) Hanifite school of Islamic law made possible. Alone among
the four Islamic law schools, the school of Hanifa gave Muslim rulers
the right not to offer the Pagans the sole choice between death and
conversion, but to allow them toleration as zimmis (protected ones)
living under 20 humiliating conditions, and to collect the jizya
(toleration tax) from them. Normally the zimmi status was only open to
Jews and Christians (and even that concession was condemned by jurists
of the Hanbalite school like lbn Taymiya), which explains why these
communities have survived in Muslim countries while most other
religions have not. On these conditions some of the higher Hindu
castes could be found willing to collaborate, so that a more or less
stable polity could be set up. Even then, the collaboration of the
Rajputs with the Moghul rulers, or of the Kayasthas with the Nawab
dynasty, one became a smooth arrangement when enlightened rulers like
Akbar (whom orthodox Muslims consider an apostate) cancelled these
humiliating conditions and the jizya tax.