THE GOD CHALLENGE
Bill M
This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
cater to.
A primary one is that there are thousands of different gods and god beliefs.
Any REAL god would surely make it abundantly clear, that he is the real god
and all the others are fakes. He would surely use his unlimited power to
expose and eliminate all the fakes. Why would he permit his creations to be
misled by all these false gods?
If there was a REAL god, would he not destroy the thousands of false gods
and
establish his authenticity, wishes and commands directly from his heaven.
If man, created by god, can communicate with the whole world by Phone,
Radio, the Internet and TV it obviously would be no problem for any real god
to communicate directly with his creations without thousands of
intermediates of questionable veracity.
Why would not a real god announce directly and authoritatively from his
heaven,
that he is the real god and what documents are authentic and which are fakes
and
destroy them? He certainly should want to prevent his creations from being.
deceived and mislead
Although billions of people have died there is not a single 'authenticated
and proven'
case where anyone of them has ever communicated with their living children,
spouses or friends.
Why would god not allow these souls in his heaven to explain and confirm the
virtues, benefits and even the existence of his heaven? Logic says it is
because they
don't exist except in peoples imaginations!
Religions are ALL based on ancient myths and tales and NO god has directly
AUTHENTICATED ANY of them.
Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
Phone and Radio and the postal service. IF there is a real god, why does he
not announce to the whole world from his heaven, by at least equally
effective means, that he is the real god and all the others are fakes? And
why does he not tell us clearly and directly what he expects from us instead
of using hundreds of vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents,
compiled by different religions and hundreds of men of unknown veracity? Why
does he not expose and smite all the false gods and doctrines?
An all powerful creator of this huge Universe would have no need or desire
for people to sing hymns and waste their time on their knees in adulation
and building expensive churches that no god ever visits from his elegant
heaven. This type of thing is the practice of greedy leaders with a need to
satisfy their selfish egos.
An all powerful creator of this huge Universe and everything in it would
have no need or desire to create, Sin, Devils, Evil, Spirits or Hells
There would be no need for basing ones life on 'FAITH' and the preaching's
of errant selfish men because we would have direct communication and
authentification directly from this all powerful REAL god
There is no evidence that any of these gods communicate with any honest or
fully sane persons.
No dead fathers, mothers relatives or friends ever verify there heaven or
hell with their living siblings or friends.
There is an overwhelming multitude of religions and god beliefs.
They can't all be true and no REAL god would permit this massive deception
of his creations.
Major religions;
Baha'i Faith
Buddhism
Adventist
Jehovah's Witnesses
British Israelism
Southern Baptists
American Baptists
Catholics
Christina religions - dozens of them
Christian Science
Amish
Brethren
Mennonites
Quakers
Shakers
Plymouth Brethren
Fundamentalists
Twin Oaks
Confucianism
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Judaism
Shinto
Sikhism
Taoism
Vodun (Voodoo)
Neopagan Religious Faiths
Asatru (Norse Paganism)
Druidism
Goddess Worship
Wicca
Witchcraft
Caodaism
Damanhur Community
Druse
Eckankar
Elian Gonzalez religious movement
Gnosticism
Gypsies
Hare Krishna - ISKCON
Lukumi
Macumba
Mowahhidoon
Native American Spirituality
Rom, Roma, Romani, Rroma, (a.k.a. Gypsies)
Santeria Elian Gonzalez religious movement
Satanism; The Church of Satan
Scientology
Unitarian-Universalism
The Creativity Movement
Zoroastrianism
Any all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent designer, would
not create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes,
Wars, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases, serious body
malfunctions and starvation all of which punish people indiscriminately
regardless of their behavior or religious beliefs. If he did he would not be
an all loving all caring god but a brutal malevolent creature or nothing at
all. There are 12,000 known diseases that torture and kill man. The reality
is that no all loving and all powerful god would create or permit these
diseases to punish men of all religious persuasion and particularly totally
INNOCENT CHILDREN.
Logic and common sense that refutes the existence of any omnipotent gods;
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him a god?
Religion is things hoped for but not yet seen or proven. Science is things
seen and proven but not necessarily hoped for.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any Gods, Heavens, Sin,
Hells, Devils or Angels exist except in the imaginations of man. These
beliefs are held to help people deal with their panic fear of death and what
comes after.
When there is NO objective verifiable evidence for something's existence it
is logical to assume it does no exist. The LACK of evidence is not evidence
of something's existence.
The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite;
that man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)
Antares 531
wrote:
>5-5-2008
>
>
>
>This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
>objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
>cater to.
>
It would no longer be a matter of faith if we could empirically prove
God's existence, but we can get closer to a proof than is possible in
many other situations which we accept and get along with. Can you
"prove" that the sun won't super nova soon? My "belief" is that it
won't, and I'll go on living for several more years.
>
>
>A primary one is that there are thousands of different gods and god beliefs.
>Any REAL god would surely make it abundantly clear, that he is the real god
>and all the others are fakes. He would surely use his unlimited power to
>expose and eliminate all the fakes. Why would he permit his creations to be
>misled by all these false gods?
>
How would the one true God teach us to avoid falling into worshiping
these false gods if he imposed the restrictions upon us that you
suggest? The main reason for our participation in this mortal phase of
"hands-on" learning is to mature us into reliable, sovereign, immortal
individuals who won't blunder back into these things again. Learning
by trial and error is a very effective means of developing and
maturing us into the kind of beings God wants us to become.
>
>If there was a REAL god, would he not destroy the thousands of false gods
>and
>
No, He would let us have our go at these false gods and in the process
we are expected to learn and mature. We don't have to become
personally involved in worshiping these false gods, but we do have to
observe and learn from the long term effects upon those who do worship
them.
>
>establish his authenticity, wishes and commands directly from his heaven.
>
If God actually did this, we would be nothing more than puppets. This
isn't what God wants us to be. The goal for each of us is to mature
into absolute sovereign, immortal beings who won't ever want to go
back and explore these false gods and other such things again.
>
>If man, created by god, can communicate with the whole world by Phone,
>Radio, the Internet and TV it obviously would be no problem for any real god
>to communicate directly with his creations without thousands of
>intermediates of questionable veracity.
>
God could indeed communicate with us as you describe, but that would
intimidate us into compliance, reducing us to nothing more than a
bunch of puppets.
It isn't God who "needs" us to sing hymns to Him. It is we who need
this as a form of emotionally stabilizing influence that will help us
get along from day to day.
Christopher A. Lee
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 8 May 2008 10:50:31 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>
>>5-5-2008
>>
>>
>>
>>This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
>>objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
>>cater to.
>>
>It would no longer be a matter of faith if we could empirically prove
>God's existence,
So what?
> but we can get closer to a proof than is possible in
>many other situations which we accept and get along with. Can you
>"prove" that the sun won't super nova soon? My "belief" is that it
>won't, and I'll go on living for several more years.
Equivocation on "believe". A standard Christian dishonest
bait'n'switch from the unevidenced to the reasoned expectation based
on a lifetime of evidence.
Claude Hopper (11) 5. ?
Prov 6:9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out
of thy sleep?
Prov 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the
soul of the diligent shall be made fat.
Prov 20:4 The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore
shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing.
Prov 26:16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men
that can render a reason.
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters
of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst
thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Nah 3:6 And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and make thee
vile, and will set thee as a gazingstock.
--
Claude Hopper :)
? ? ¥
bob young
Antares 531 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 8 May 2008 10:50:31 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
> >5-5-2008
> >
> >
> >
> >This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
> >objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
> >cater to.
> >
> It would no longer be a matter of faith if we could empirically prove
> God's existence, but we can get closer to a proof than is possible in
> many other situations which we accept and get along with. Can you
> "prove" that the sun won't super nova soon? My "belief" is that it
> won't, and I'll go on living for several more years.
> >
> >
> >A primary one is that there are thousands of different gods and god beliefs.
> >Any REAL god would surely make it abundantly clear, that he is the real god
> >and all the others are fakes. He would surely use his unlimited power to
> >expose and eliminate all the fakes. Why would he permit his creations to be
> >misled by all these false gods?
> >
> How would the one true God teach us to avoid falling into worshiping
> these false gods if he imposed the restrictions upon us that you
> suggest?
Loonie, God has not yet imposed anything on humanity. All
we see is what humanity has imposed on itself, all in the
name of the gods they have made up and manipulated
GROW UP
The main reason for our participation in this mortal phase of
> "hands-on" learning is to mature us into reliable, sovereign, immortal
> individuals who won't blunder back into these things again. Learning
> by trial and error is a very effective means of developing and
> maturing us into the kind of beings God wants us to become.
You mean like those fellas who burned heretics alive in town
squares for nearly three hundred years? That kind of thing?
> >
> >If there was a REAL god, would he not destroy the thousands of false gods
> >and
> >
> No, He would let us have our go at these false gods and in the process
> we are expected to learn and mature. We don't have to become
> personally involved in worshiping these false gods, but we do have to
> observe and learn from the long term effects upon those who do worship
> them.
> >
> >establish his authenticity, wishes and commands directly from his heaven.
> >
> If God actually did this, we would be nothing more than puppets.
Groan
This
> isn't what God wants us to be.
AAAAAAH an expert.
One who is privy with a god. I thought we would come down
to that level pretty soon.
Well FYI were there a god that created the entire universe
it would hardly need the likes of you to speek for it -
right ?
The goal for each of us is to mature
> into absolute sovereign, immortal beings who won't ever want to go
> back and explore these false gods and other such things again.
Groan
bob young
Claude Hopper (11) 5. ? wrote:
>
> Prov 6:6 ΆGo to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise.
> ? ? Ξ
lovely old stuff,
written by ignorant, frightened primitives.
Not a god in sight
Richo
> 5-5-2008
>
> This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
> objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
> cater to.
>
Why?
They seem quite happy to believe without any objective verifiable
evidence.
Mark.
--------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson. m.richardson61 AT gmail.com
Member of SMASH
(Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheist with a Sense of Humor)
--------------------------------------------------
Auntie Christian
>> 5-5-2008
>>
>> This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
>> objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
>> cater to.
God doesn't expect you to cater to Him, He expects you to cannibalize his
offspring , err, Him ; )
> Why?
> They seem quite happy to believe without any objective verifiable
> evidence.
>
> Mark.
> --------------------------------------------
> Mark Richardson. m.richardson61 AT gmail.com
>
> Member of SMASH
> (Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheist with a Sense of Humor)
>
> --------------------------------------------------
--
"Theocracy Is Dead...Long Live The Sin"
-- Auntie Christian
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