The Journey into the Hereafter (part 1 of 8)
imanway
PART 1
Introduction
Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam who passed away in 632, related:
“Gabriel came to me and said, ‘O Muhammad, live as you wish, for you
shall eventually die. Love whom you desire, for you shall eventually
depart. Do what you please, for you shall pay. Know that the night-
prayer[1] is the honor of a believer, and his pride is being
independant on others.’” (Silsilah al-Saheehah)
If there is only one thing certain about life, it is that it ends.
This truism instinctively raises a question which preoccupies most
people at least once in their life: What lies beyond death?
At the physiological level, the journey that the deceased takes is
plain for all to witness. If left alone to natural causes,[2] the
heart will stop beating, the lungs will stop breathing, and the body’s
cells will be starved of blood and oxygen. The termination of blood
flow to the outer extremities will soon turn them pale. With the
oxygen cut off, cells will respire anaerobically for a time, producing
the lactic acid which causes rigor mortis – the stiffening of the
corpse’s muscles. Then, as the cells begin to decompose, the
stiffness wanes, the tongue protrudes, the temperature drops, the skin
discolors, the flesh rots, and the parasites have their feast - until
all that is left is dried-out tooth and bone.
As for the journey of the soul after death, then this is not something
that can be witnessed, nor can it be gauged through scientific
enquiry. Even in a living body, the conscious, or soul, of a person
cannot be subjected to empirical experimentation. It is simply beyond
human control. In this regard, the concept of a Hereafter - a life
beyond death, resurrection, and a Day of Reckoning; not to mention the
existence of a Divine, Omnipotent Creator, His angels, destiny, and so
on - comes under the subject of belief in the unseen. The only way in
which man can come to know anything of the unseen world is through
divine revelation.
“And with God are the keys of the unseen, none knows them but He. And
He knows whatever there is in (or on) the earth and in the sea; not a
leaf falls, but He knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of
the earth, nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear
Record.” (Quran 6:59)
While what has come down to us of the Torah, the Psalms, the Gospel -
the scriptures revealed to early prophets - all speak of a Hereafter,
it is only through God’s Final Revelation to humanity, the Holy Quran,
as revealed to His Final Prophet, Muhammad, that we learn most about
the afterlife. And as the Quran is, and will forever remain,
preserved and uncorrupted by human hands, the insight it gives us into
the world of the unseen is, for the believer, as factual, real and
true as anything that can be learnt through any scientific endeavor
(and with a zero margin of error!).
“…We have neglected nothing in the Book; then unto their Lord they
shall all be gathered.” (Quran 6:38)
Coupled with the question of what happens after we die, is the
question: Why are we here? For if there is indeed no greater purpose
to life (that is, greater than simply living life itself), the
question of what happens after death becomes academic, if not
pointless. It is only if one first accepts that our intelligent
design, our creation, necessitates an intelligence and designer behind
it, a Creator who will judge us for what we do, that life on earth
carries any significant meaning.
“Then did you think that We created you in vain and that to Us you
would not be returned? Therefore exalted be God, the Sovereign, the
Truth; no deity is there save Him, Lord of the Supreme Throne.” (Quran
23:115-116)
If aught else, a discerning person would be forced to conclude that
life on earth is full of injustice, cruelty and oppression; that the
law of the jungle, survival of the fittest, is what is paramount; that
if one cannot find happiness in this life, whether due to an absence
of material comforts, physical love, or other joyous experiences, then
life is simply not worth living. In fact, it is precisely because a
person despairs of this worldly life while having little, no, or
imperfect faith in an afterlife, that they may commit suicide. After
all, what else do the unhappy, unloved and unwanted; the dejected,
(desperately) depressed and despairing have to lose?![3]
“And who despairs of the Mercy of his Lord except those who are
astray?” (Quran 15:56)
So can we accept that our death is limited to mere physiological
termination, or that life is merely a product of blind, selfish
evolution? Surely, there is more to death, and so to life, than this.
.....................
Footnotes:
[1] Formal prayers (salat) prayed voluntarily at night after the last
(isha) and before the first (fajr) of the five daily prayers. The
best time to pray them is in the final third of the night.
[2] Although a heart can be kept artificially beating, and blood
artificially pumping, if the brain is dead, so too is the being as a
whole.
[3] According to a United Nations report marking ‘World Suicide
Prevention Day’, “More people kill themselves each year than die from
wars and murders combined ... Some 20 million to 60 million try to
kill themselves each year, but only about a million of them
succeed.” (Reuters, September 8, 2006)
imanway
tlastis
--------------------------------------
> While what has come down to us of the Torah, the Psalms, the Gospel -
> the scriptures revealed to early prophets - all speak of a Hereafter,
> it is only through God’s Final Revelation to humanity, the Holy Quran,
> as revealed to His Final Prophet, Muhammad, that we learn most about
> the afterlife. And as the Quran is, and will forever remain,
> preserved and uncorrupted by human hands, the insight it gives us into
> the world of the unseen is, for the believer, as factual, real and
> true as anything that can be learnt through any scientific endeavor
> (and with a zero margin of error!).
The Quran and Hadith Which is more authentic?:
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2509&catid=201
or
http://tinyurl.com/ydjguqr
Although we only read the Islamic history from it’s heavily biased
Islamic sources, but we frequently stumble upon some historical facts
like the following:
Ibn Massoud was renowned among Mohammed’s companions as the most
notable in his knowledge of the Quran; it is claimed that he recorded
his own copy which he kept with him. Ibn Massoud’s copy of the Quran
was significantly different from the official copy of Uthman, which he
refused to recognize . Some verses were lost, even the ones kept in
Mohammed’s own house! Aysha admitted that she used to keep the stoning
verse under her bed until it was eaten by a goat!
AlHajaj Ibn Youssef Al Thakafi, the ruthless ruler of Iraq during the
Umayyad dynasty, made many changes to the official Quran many years
after Uthman.
Political corruption, power struggle and instability characterised the
period of Uthman’s rule. It was in such unhealthy political climate
when Uthman ordered the compilation of the Quran.
Uthman sent four copies of his official Quran to the various regions
of the expanding Islamic state and kept one copy in Medina. None of
those copies seem to have survived. There is no evidence that any of
the old copies of the Quran we have today dates back to Uthman’s time.
The oldest copy available, which is the manuscripts of Sanna/ yemen,
dates back to many decades after Uthman and contains significant
differences from the current copies of the Quran .
Many Muslim scholars are aware of the weakness of the argument that
the Quran was documented during Mohammed's time. They claim that the
Quran was preserved mainly in the Muslims chests, the written
documentation was only a backup! Unfortunately for them, making such a
claim is like digging the grave for the Quran because the main reason
behind writing a formal copy of the Quran, and burning all the others,
was to stop the disagreements between Muslims. The Quranic verses that
were preserved in the Muslims’ chests were so different that they
accused each other with kufr (unbelieving)!
The Quran is probably the least authentic document in Islam as
evidenced from the state of confusion and disagreements that prevailed
among the early Muslims. The early Muslims disagreed on what
constituted part of the Quran and what didn’t. Ibn Massoud’s copy of
the Quran included two chapters less than Uthman’s copy because he did
not believe the last two chapters were actually Quranic chapters .
Others reported that surat tauba (chapter nine, which contains 129
verses) used to be as long as surat Bakara (chapter two, which
contains 286 verses) before the verses gone missing . Abdullah Ibn
Umar reportedly said, 'Let none of you say, "I have got the whole of
the Qur'an." How does he know what all of it is? Much of the Quran has
gone’. Let him say instead, I have got what has survived . The
enormous amounts of repetitions and contradictions could be an
indication of some degree of duplication and manipulation of the
original text.
-----
Ancient Qur'anic Manuscripts of Sana'a:
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2471&catid=200
or
http://tinyurl.com/yl3t8oe
--------------------------------------
Rich
> As for the journey of the soul after death, then this is not something
> that can be witnessed, nor can it be gauged through scientific
> enquiry. Even in a living body, the conscious, or soul, of a person
> cannot be subjected to empirical experimentation. It is simply beyond
> human control. In this regard, the concept of a Hereafter - a life
> beyond death, resurrection, and a Day of Reckoning; not to mention the
> existence of a Divine, Omnipotent Creator, His angels, destiny, and so
> on - comes under the subject of belief in the unseen. The only way in
> which man can come to know anything of the unseen world is through
> divine revelation.
Imanway, I agree that it is beyond human control. Eckankar teaches methods
of how to gain divine revelations during this lifetime. A person can have
the experience of life after death while still alive. How is that possible?
It is Soul that has control. It is the consciousness of Soul. Shifting the
attention from the human state of awareness to the point of view of Soul is
how the unseen(to humans) world can be seen. By having such experience you
can move beyond relying on the human limitations of faith and belief.
As in Islam, most people in the world are indoctrinated to accept that they
must wait until their body dies to know what happens afterwards. Before I
knew I had a choice, I was resigned and content with that too. Now that I
have made "the journey" many times, I know that the answer to "the question
which preoccupies most people" is that the hereafter is actually Here and
Now.
` o
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Rich~~~~(__________/~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~
imanway
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/ydjguqr
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/yl3t8oe
>
> --------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Although we did not start the Journey yet ....that was only
Introduction
All misleading and simply is not true as usual ( My words will be long
then)
Each letter of the Koran was the word of God ...it were preserved in
the Muslims’ chests without doubt
“It is We Who have sent down the remembrance (i.e. the Quran) and
surely, We will guard it from corruption.” (Quran 15:9)
When God revealed His words of guidance for the whole of humankind –
the Quran, He guaranteed to preserve it. One of the ways in which it
was preserved was that the men, women and children around the Prophet
Muhammad memorized Quran, paying careful attention to each word. In
the very early days of Islam the emphasis was on memorization, however
soon, those who had mastered the art of reading and writing began to
write down the words of Quran on whatever writing material available.
They wrote on flat stones, bark, bones, and even animal skins.
As the words of God were revealed, to Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy
and blessings of God be upon him, by the Angel Gabriel, it is said
that he would call for a scribe to write down the words as they began
to flow from his lips. The principle scribe was a man named Zaid Ibn
Thabit. Many companions reported that Prophet Muhammad would call for
Zaid saying “let him bring the board, the ink pot and the scapula
bone”.[1] In the lifetime of the Prophet, the Quran existed on bits
and pieces of writing material, rather than in book form.
One of the reasons that Quran was not at that stage, in the form of a
book was that it was not revealed in order. Rather the chapters and
verses were revealed over a period of 23 years often in response to
happenings in the life and times of the early Muslim community.
However, the order of the chapters and verses of Quran was known to
Prophet Muhammad. When the Angel Gabriel would reveal the divine
words of God, he would also issue instructions as to what verses and
chapters belonged where.
The Quran was written down under the direct supervision of Prophet
Muhammad. Uthman, one of the Prophet’s closest companions recalled
that, “when something was revealed to him, Prophet Muhammad would call
someone from amongst those who used to write for him and say, ‘place
these verses in the chapter in which such and such is mentioned’ and
if only one verse was revealed he would say, ‘place this verse in this
chapter’”[2].
Thus at the time of the Prophet’s death pieces of Quran were held in
trust by many members of the Muslim community. Some had only a few
pages from which they were learning to recite, others such as the
scribes, had several chapters and still others had pieces of bark or
animal skin containing only one verse.
During the time of Abu Bakr, the man chosen to lead the Muslim nation
after the death of Prophet Muhammad, the wider Muslim community found
itself in a time of civil strife. False Prophets arose and many
bewildered people, unable to sustain their faith without Prophet
Muhammad, left the fold of Islam. Battles and skirmishes took place
and many of the men who had memorized the Quran lost their lives.
Abu Bakr was afraid that the Quran would be lost, so he consulted some
of the senior companions about compiling the Quran into a single
book. He asked Zaid ibn Thabit, to oversee this task. At first, Zaid
felt uneasy about doing something that Prophet Muhammad did not
specifically authorize. However, he did agree to collect pieces of
Quran, both written and memorized and compile a book – the Mushaf. In
the traditions of Prophet Muhammad, we find Zaid Ibn Thabit's own
recollection of how the compilation of Quran came about.[3]
“Abu Bakr sent for me when the people of al-Yamaamah had been killed
[i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against the
false prophet Musaylimah]. I went to him and found Umar ibn al-
Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said to me, ‘Umar has come
saying the casualties were heavy among those who knew the Quran by
heart, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place on
other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Quran may be lost.
Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Quran be
collected.”
I said to Umar, “How can you do something that the Messenger of God
did not do?” Umar said, “By God, this is something good”. Umar kept
on urging me to accept his proposal until God opened my heart to it
and I began to realize the good in the idea. Then Abu Bakr said (to
me). “You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about
you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for the Messenger of
God, so search for the fragmentary scripts of Quran and compile them
into one book.”
“By Allah (God) if they had ordered me to move one of the mountains,
it would not have been heavier for me than this (ordering me to
compile the Quran). Then I said to Abu Bakr, “How can you do
something that the Messenger of God did not do?” Abu Bakr replied,
“By God, it is a good thing.” Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept
his idea until God opened my heart to that to which He had opened the
hearts of Abu Bakr and Umar. Therefore, I started looking for the
Quran and collecting it from what it was written on, palm stalks, thin
white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, until I had
collected it all.
Zaid had memorized all of the Quran and had been Prophet Muhammad’s
most trusted scribe; therefore, it would have been possible for him to
have written the whole Quran from his own memory. However, he did not
use this method alone. He was very careful and methodical in his
compilation of the Quran and would not write down any verses unless
they had been confirmed by at least two of Prophet Muhammad’s
Companions.
Thus, the Quran came to be written and compiled in book form. It
remained with Abu Bakr until his death, at which time it came into the
possession of Umar Ibn al Khattab. After Umar’s death, it was
entrusted to his daughter Hafsah. This however is not the end of the
story of Quran. In the time of Uthman, the third leader of the Muslim
nation, the book in which the Quran (the words of God) is contained,
the Mushaf, became standardized. The Quran was no longer written in
the various dialects of Arabic. In part 4 we will discover how the
Mushaf known as the Uthmani Quran, came into being.
While Prophet Muhammad was alive, he was able to clarify and resolve
any pronunciation disputes.
From the traditions of Prophet Muhammad, Umar Ibn Al Khattab narrates
an anecdote that clearly shows how the people around the Prophet were
anxious to preserve the authenticity of Quran and that the Prophet
Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was able to
mediate any disputes. He says,
I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting in a way different to that of mine.
Therefore, I was about to quarrel with him (during the prayer) but I
waited until he finished, then I brought him to God’s Messenger and
said, “I have heard him reciting in a way different to the way you
taught it to me.” The Prophet ordered me to release him and asked
Hisham to recite. When he recited it, God’s messenger said, “It was
revealed in this way.” He then asked me to recite the same verses.
When I recited it, he said, “It was revealed in this way. The Quran
has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way
that is easier for you.”[2]
After the death of Prophet Muhammad, hundreds of thousands of non-
Arabs converted to Islam. By the time Uthman Ibn Affan was leader of
the Islamic nation the Quran was recited in a variety of different
accents and dialects. Many people especially those new to Islam were
becoming confused and some of the Companions of Prophet Muhammad began
to fear that the authenticity of Quran would be compromised.
Whilst on a journey, one of Prophet Muhammad’s companions noticed that
there were many different recitations of Quran throughout the Muslim
Caliphate. He suggested to Uthman that there be an official version
recited in the dialect of the tribe of Quraish and written in the
style used in the city of Medina. All dialects of the Arabic language
were renowned for their eloquence but the dialect of Quraish was
considered the most expressive and articulate, and thus over
generations, it came to be known as the dialect of the Quran.
Uthman Ibn Affan knew the Quran by heart and had intimate knowledge of
the context and circumstances relating to each verse, thus he was a
fitting person to oversee the standardization of the Quran. As we
know, the Quran had been gathered together during the time of Abu Bakr
and was in the safekeeping of Umar Ibn Al Khattab’s daughter, and
Prophet Muhammad’s wife, Hafsah. Uthman sent word to Hafsah, and took
possession of the original Mushaf. The authentic traditions of
Prophet Muhammad relate the event as follows.
Hudhaifah came to Uthman at the time when the people of Syria and the
people of Iraq were at war with Armenia and Azerbaijan. He was
alarmed by their (the people of Syria and Iraq) differences in the
recitation, so he said to ‘Uthman, “O leader of the believers! Save
this nation before they dispute about the Quran as the Jews and the
Christians did dispute about their books.” Therefore, ‘Uthman sent a
message to Hafsah saying, “Send us the manuscript so that we may make
copies and we will return the manuscript to you.” [3]
Once again, the leaders of the Muslim Caliphate and the men and women
Companions of the Prophet made great efforts to preserve the words of
God and to remain faithful to the Message. Uthman ordered some of the
most trusted companions, including for a second time Zaid Ibn Thabit,
to make careful copies of the Mushaf, saying “in case you disagree,
copy it into the dialect of Quraish”.[4]
The original manuscript was sent back to Hafsah and Uthman then
ordered all other unofficial copies to be burned or otherwise
destroyed. Thus, an end was put to the dispute and the Muslims were
united. The Uthmani Quran is the Mushaf used by more then 1.2 billion
Muslims throughout the world today. The Quran has remained preserved
from generation to generation. Each Mushaf is an exact copy of the
original.
“Verily, it is We Who have sent down the remembrance (Quran), and
surely, We will guard it (from corruption).” (Quran15:9)
It is not known exactly how many copies were made by Uthman, but many
believe it to be five, not including his own copy. The cities of
Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Kufa, and Basra each received a copy.
Throughout early Islamic literature, references are made to these
copies and it is believed that original copies exist to this day in
Turkey and Uzbekistan.
Ibn Batuta, in the 14th century C.E. said he had seen copies or
sheets from the copies of the Quran prepared under Uthman, in Granada,
Marrakesh, Basra, and other cities. Ibn Kathir related that he had
seen a copy of the Uthmani Quran, which was brought to Damascus from
Palestine. He said it was ‘very large, in beautiful clear strong
writing with strong ink, in parchment, I think, made of camel skin’.
[5] Ibn Jubair said he saw the Uthmani manuscript in the mosque of
Medina in the year 1184 C.E. Some say it remained in Medina until the
Turks removed it in WW1. The Treaty of Versailles contains the
following clause:
Article 246: Within six months from the coming into force of the
present Treaty, Germany will restore to His Majesty, King of Hedjaz,
the original Koran of Caliph Othman, which was removed from Medina by
the Turkish authorities and is stated to have been presented to the ex-
Emperor William II.”[6]
imanway
imanway
What about the Paul Twitchell' experience ? NOTHING
> As in Islam, most people in the world are indoctrinated to accept that they
must wait until their body dies to know what happens afterwards.
Journey into the afterlife would be quite different ....it is
separation of body and soul
rich .. will not be able to describe summit of the mountain, but
after the climb it
There is a difference between who climb to( summit Everest ) and
returned and between who did not return (died)
Who is the owner of the real experience ? you or he ?
We can not know the details climber summit if he died in his journey
to the summit
his details left with him .....although we know the risks of
climbing ..........
the Journey into the Hereafter as well as that .....
imanway
imanway
> On Nov 11, 9:36 am, imanway <imanway6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > PART 1
>
> > Introduction
> > Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam who passed away in 632, related:
>
> > “Gabriel came to me and said, ‘O Muhammad, live as you wish, for you
> > shall eventually die. Love whom you desire, for you shall eventually
> > depart. Do what you please, for you shall pay. Know that the night-
> > prayer[1] is the honor of a believer, and his pride is being
> > independant on others.’” (Silsilah al-Saheehah)
>
> > If there is only one thing certain about life, it is that it ends.
> > This truism instinctively raises a question which preoccupies most
> > people at least once in their life: What lies beyond death?
>
>
> Most large libraries share in Reference the Encyclopedia of Islam.
> Will your description of the "hereafter" include the seven heavens?
> Christians have only been told of one with the hint of three heavens.
> In ECKANKAR, heaven is a state of consciousness "herebefore,"
> "herenow," and "hereafter," above and beyond time and space.
>
> http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=7560
>
> Without pachouli oil to prevent it, grain had a tendency to mold.
> Claviceps purpurea is used to stop post natal bleeding and provide
> esoteric revelation. Ergot sclerotia naturally contain some amounts of
> lysergic acid. Men of old knew what they were seeing or did they?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot
>
> http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1074552103002667http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14700635
>
> LSD will give your delusions a real kick in the ass. Only use the
> pharmaceutically pure if you try it. The other name for "delusions" is
> foggy-factory-glasses sending messages to a brain curdled into cottage
> cheese. Now go spike the well at the local oasis.
>
> Of course, trained ECKists do not need a crutch to see heaven.
>
> JR- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
JR...
I think that LSD would be in your concept
I think that you do need crutch to know heaven before you seen it
I'm talking about a true paradise from work of God ( allah)
Follow up our journey
imanway
imanway
PART ....2
A Grave World
We will now take a brief look at the journey of the soul after death.
This is truly an amazing story, all the more so because it is true and
one which we all must take. The sheer depth of knowledge we have
concerning this journey, its precision and detail, is a manifest sign
that Muhammad was truly God’s Last Messenger to humanity. The
revelation he received and then communicated to us from His Lord is as
unambiguous in its description of the afterlife as it comprehensive.
Our glimpse into this knowledge will begin with a brief exploration of
the journey of the believing soul from the moment of death to its
final resting place in Paradise.
When a believer is about to depart this world, angels with white faces
come down from the heavens and say:
“O peaceful soul, come out to forgiveness from God and His
pleasure.” (Hakim and others)
The believer will look forward to meeting his Creator, as the Prophet,
may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, explained:
“…when the time of the death of a believer approaches, he receives the
good news of God’s pleasure with him and His blessings upon him, and
so at that time nothing is dearer to him than what lies ahead of him.
He therefore loves meeting God, and God loves meeting him.” (Saheeh Al-
Bukhari)
The soul peacefully passes out of the body like a drop of water which
emerges from a water-skin, and the angels take hold of it:
The angels gently extract it, saying:
“…Do not fear and do not grieve, but receive good tidings of the
Paradise which you were promised. We were your allies in this worldly
life and [are so] in the Hereafter, and you will have therein whatever
your souls desire, and you will have therein whatever you request [or
wish], as a hospitality from the Forgiving and Merciful.” (Quran
41:30-32)
Once extracted from the body, the angels wrap the soul in a shroud
smelling of musk and ascend up to the heavens. As the Gates of Heaven
open for the soul, the angels greet it:
“A good soul has come from the earth, may God bless you and the body
you used to dwell in.”
…introducing it with the best names it was called with in this life.
God commands his “book” to be recorded, and the soul is returned back
to earth.
The soul then remains in a place of limbo in its grave, called the
Barzakh, awaiting the Day of Judgment. Two fearsome, dread-inspiring
angels called Munkar and Nakeer visit the soul to ask it about its
religion, God, and prophet. The believing soul sits upright in its
grave as God grants it the strength to answer the angels with full
faith and certainty.[1]
Munkar and Nakeer: “What is your religion?”
Believing soul: “Islam.”
Munkar and Nakeer: “Who is your Lord?”
Believing soul: “Allah.”
Munkar and Nakeer: “Who is your Prophet?” (or “What do you say about
this man?”)
Believing soul: “Muhammad.”
Munkar and Nakeer: “How did you come to know these things?”
Believing soul: “I read the Book of Allah (i.e. the Quran) and I
believed.”
Then, when the soul passes the test, a voice from the heavens will
call out:
“My slave has spoken the truth, supply him with furnishings from
Paradise, clothe him from Paradise, and open a gate for him to
Paradise.”
The believer’s grave is made roomy and spacious and filled with
light. He is shown what would have been his abode in Hell - had he
been a wicked sinner - before a portal is opened for him every morning
and evening showing him his actual home in Paradise. Excited and full
of joyful anticipation, the believer will keep asking: ‘When will the
Hour (of Resurrection) come?! When will the Hour come?!’ until he is
told to calm down.[2]
imanway
tlastis
----------------------------------------
Quote from your above article:
-----
Yes.....compiled the Quran after Muhammad's death.
But......that wasn't the end of the story of the Quran, it took
another turn, as we can see in the article you provided......
-----
-----
Yes....."remembrance", compiled, "standardized".
-----------------------------------------
Rich
>> Eckankar teaches methods
> of how to gain divine revelations during this lifetime. A person can
> have
> the experience of life after death while still alive.
>
>
> What about the Paul Twitchell' experience ? NOTHING
>
>> As in Islam, most people in the world are indoctrinated to accept
>> that they
> must wait until their body dies to know what happens afterwards.
>
> Journey into the afterlife would be quite different ....it is
> separation of body and soul
>
> rich .. will not be able to describe summit of the mountain, but
> after the climb it
Yes, one can recognize and be aware of their true self as Soul, separate
from the body. That is the climb. A "summit" might be when one experiences
Self-Realization, recognizing oneself as Soul. Another "summit" could be
becoming an adept at Soul Travel. One can leave the body awareness,
experience higher states of consciousness, and return to the body. I have
done it. Many people throughtiut history have had that experience, and many
members of Eckankar experience it every day. You may say that they have not,
but how could you know?
> There is a difference between who climb to( summit Everest ) and
> returned and between who did not return (died)
Yes. Everest is limited to earthly consciousness. Soul is not limited.
>
> Who is the owner of the real experience ? you or he ?
Everyone's experience is unique.
> We can not know the details climber summit if he died in his journey
> to the summit
We? You obviously do not know, but you have no way of knowing others
experiences, and thus can not speak for them.
> his details left with him .....although we know the risks of
> climbing ..........
>
> the Journey into the Hereafter as well as that .....
You misunderstand. Just as I do not rely on the words Mohammad, Buddha,
Jesus, or any other spiritual leader, I do not rely on those of Paul
Twitchell. I can learn from their spiritual wisdom and experience, but I
have my own experience. That is most important. I recall past lives and the
experience of dying in those. I Know what it is to leave the body.
The Hereafter exists as another state of consciousness. One of the seven
heavens if you like. Those who have died exist in it Now. Those who know how
to leave the body can experience it now too. The Prophets and Saints were
called that because they had or could experiences these states of
consciousness. No one is excluded from these experiences except by their own
beliefs.
Rich
> On Nov 12, 7:38 pm, tlastis <tlas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 11, 12:36 pm, imanway <imanway6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
<snip>
In summary all originals and varying copies have been "burned or otherwise
destroyed". Therefore no one has any proof of what was originally written
by Ibn Massoud or any contemporize of Mohammad, yes. ("The Quran has been
revealed in seven different ways") If there where seven different versions,
six of which apparently no longer exist, how can it be said that there is
"zero margin of error" when there is no way to compare or judge
discrepancies?
I have seen and read online parts of several scriptures that are not
included in the current version of the Bible. They are from the Dead Sea
Scrolls and Nag Hammadi library. Are there any additional non-standard
versions of the Quran that still exist and can be seen online?
" it is believed that original copies(the third leader of the Muslim nation
Uthman Ibn Affan's writings) exist to this day in Turkey and Uzbekistan."
But there really is not any proof or evidence of that, right? It's just a
'belief", or there would be photographic copies online yes?
What year did Uthman compile and standardize the Quran?
The manuscripts of Sanna/ yemen are the oldest copy in existence today? Does
it differs from what is now used?
Sean
"tlastis" <tla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:03c6add0-9599-4b5a...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
-----
-----------------------------------------
Yes .... this is what all religions do sooner or later, then split into 2,
4, 8, 16 various sects/styles/leaders/guru lines, then do it again, then
later again "review" "reform" "rejvenate" if the re;igion lasts long enough
and therefore the cycle repeats and new opportunities for Soul's experience
continues unabated.
In fact, some have called Paul T the Master Compiler, and many look to
Harold as the Great Standardizer - the Master Builder and the Giver of the
Law .
It just depends on what you're looking at and how you choose to look at it.
<G>
Jasmyn
>
> - Show quoted text -
-----------------------------------------
I appreciate the fact that you want to pass on information about Islam
beliefs and the Quran to us here.
However, many here are happy with their own religion. I will use
myself as an example. Like others, I spent years investigating many
religions. But none of the religions that are known only by *book
reading* and *faith only* are of interest to me. I've learned about
something of much more interest, how to have actual conscious
awareness of myself as Soul.
There are ways we human beings can be aware of who we really are at
our essence--Soul. We are each Soul wearing a human body.
By learning to look within during a spiritual exercise, contemplation,
or meditation, we each have the capacity to leave behind consciousness
of our physical body (temporarily), and instead be who we really are,
Soul. We can while still existing in this human body, leave the body
consciousness behind and experience being our true self, Soul.
Soul spends many lifetimes in the physical worlds, through eons of
time. Some call that reincarnation.
Soul is a part of Spirit. Soul is like one cell in the body of God.
God is pure Spirit without any material substance, which is why
neither God nor Soul are male or female. Soul appears as the *Light*
body, it's composed of pure Light and Sound.
One of the spiritual laws of life is the law of karma, which is the
same as what Jesus said: what you sow, so shall you reap. For each
action there is a reaction, everything must be paid back, even though
sometimes it might be paid back in the next lifetime. We don't always
understand why some people are born less fortunate, or with a
disability, or less healthy than the next person, it's because all is
experienced, and all is paid back according to our own actions. An
eye for and eye, and tooth for a tooth doesn't mean via the laws of
man necessarily, but the spiritual laws of life will exact payment for
our actions against others. We have to earn higher consciousness the
hard and long way, through our many experiences, which will teach us
better. That's why we come here and have hard and sorrowful (as well
as happy) experiences. Perhaps the only hell is what we've made for
ourselves here.
Soul has no gender, it is neither male nor female. But each time it
incarnates again into the physical world it takes on a gender of
either male or female each lifetime, for experience in the process of
purifying the consciousness for life in yet higher planes within the
material worlds, and ultimately to be able to live as pure Soul only
without any kind of physical body in the higher worlds above time and
space. That's called spiritual liberation, and is one of our goals as
Soul, whether we know it or not.
But in the meantime, Soul wears the human form and must live under the
spiritual laws of life. Everyone is equal when we die in the sense
that no one is there to ask what religion one believed in that
lifetime, because the laws of life are just and equal for all. God has
no religion, and has no care of the religions of man, religions are
only another avenue of experience for our benefit of learning in each
lifetime.
We each spend many lifetimes in all religions. We experience
everything, all nationalities, all religions, all races, all body
types--Muslim, Christian, Jew, Eckist, and every other religion,
black, white, brown, beautiful, plain, rich, poor, tall, short, stout,
Arab, French, Italian, American, etc., eventually learning about
harmlessness, and love.
By doing a contemplation, or meditation, one can leave the body
consciousness behind and become aware of ourselves as Soul.
Life is not dependent on any religion. That's strictly what we involve
ourselves in while here in the physical body. Hopefully teaching us
more about values and how to treat other people as equals who are just
as good and valuable as we are. Until we learn that, we still have
many more roads and lifetimes to travel in this world.
These are the teachings of some of the Masters as I understand. We
don't have to take anyone's word for anything because it's what is
written down, because we can experience for ourselves by lifting the
consciousness during a contemplation and having the experience of
Soul.
-----------------------------------------
Jasmyn
Very nicely said, Rich. :)
Jasmyn
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>Yes.....compiled the Quran after Muhammad's death.
>But......that wasn't the end of the story of the Quran, it took
another turn, as we can see in the article you provided......
They did not accept one unless the two muslims testify that the copies
which with him It was written in the hands of the Prophet peace be
upon him ...in accordance with the Constitution which Abu Bakr had put
it
Died of the Prophet peace be upon him and all of the Quran was written
then compiled in the era of Abu Bakr
it did not lost any text from it
imanway
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
NOW.....I think I have become in the world of ghosts ...... house of
ghosts .....as ( Casper)
http://www.egyptnetcafe.com/cartoon/images/casper.jpg
http://www.g1o1.com/games/files/Cartoon/10.gif......................EXCUSE
ME !
the law of the
Spirit .............souls......consciousness ..........experience .......
return to the body .. ...etc
> and many
members of Eckankar experience it every day. You may say that they
have not,
but how could you know?
or Rather where is it ?
> There is a difference between who climb to( summit Everest ) and
> returned and between who did not return (died)
>Yes. Everest is limited to earthly consciousness. Soul is not limited.
he / she climbs with his/ her soul .....body no !
that Soul is not limited into hereafter only.......if was that right
what about your soul then ?
What is the thing that distinguishes your soul about my soul ?
> You misunderstand. Just as I do not rely on the words Mohammad, Buddha,
Jesus, or any other spiritual leader
pleas .....buddha Just a myth and the illusion ..do not put him with
mohammad and jesus
> The Hereafter exists as another state of consciousness. One of the seven
heavens if you like. Those who have died exist in it Now.
hereafter exists as reality as our existed and its station would be
our died
Not all of the die is in heaven right now ...has qualifications
> We can not know the details climber summit if he died in his journey
> to the summit
>We? You obviously do not know, but you have no way of knowing others
>experiences, and thus can not speak for them.
OKAY ...me ...you ...we... do not know details climber summit if he
died in his journey
do you know any dead has told you about his / her situation now
it is surprises have occurred to him impossible to know
which I meant that The Journey into the Hereafter ( It is an
experience only for the dead )
So climber summit is not as read ... or hear about a summit anyway
I hope to understand what I mean
imanway
imanway
>
> > > LSD will give your delusions a real kick in the ass. Only use the
> > > pharmaceutically pure if you try it. The other name for "delusions" is
> > > foggy-factory-glasses sending messages to a brain curdled into cottage
> > > cheese. Now go spike the well at the local oasis.
>
> > > Of course, trained ECKists do not need a crutch to see heaven.
>
> > > JR- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > JR...
>
> > I think that LSD would be in your concept
>
> > I think that you do need crutch to know heaven before you seen it
>
> > I'm talking about a true paradise from work of God ( allah)
>
> > Follow up our journey
>
>
> Imanway,
>
> The past is a thought, the present a reflection, the future a dream.
> --Paul Twitchell.
>
> Reading your spiel would tell me more about correct thinking than
> actual experience.
>
> JR- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
anyway it is truth
Kinpa
go in peace Imanway...
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
thanks Jasmyn ..........I have read your posted ..thank you
what is this ?.............I am really I have become in the world of
ghosts ...... house of
ghosts .....then
Sorry ......that my sense
thanks
imanway
PART 3
The Day of Judgment:
“That Day, a man shall flee from his brother; from his mother and his
father; from his wife and his children. For on that Day, every man
will have enough to make him indifferent to others.” (Quran 80:34-37)
The Hour of Resurrection will be a terrifying, overwhelming event.
Yet, despite its trauma, the believer will be ecstatic, just as
Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him,
related from his Lord:
God says, “By My Glory and Majesty, I will not give My slave two
securities and two terrors. If he feels secure from Me in the world
[1], I will instill fear in him on the Day when I gather My slaves
together; and if he fears Me in the world, I will make him feel safe
on the Day when I gather My slaves together.”[2]
“Unquestionably, for the allies of God there will be no fear
concerning them, nor will they grieve: those who believed and used to
fear God (in this life); for them are good tidings in the worldly life
and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the words of God. Indeed
in that is the great success.” (Quran 10:62-64)
When all humans ever created are gathered to stand naked and
uncircumcised on a great plain under the ferocious scorching heat of
the Sun, an elite group of pious men and women will be shaded under
the Throne of God. The Prophet Muhammad foretold just who these
fortunate souls will be, on that Day when no other shade will avail:
[3]
· a just ruler who did not abuse his power, but established
divinely revealed justice among people
· a young man who grew up worshipping his Lord and controlled
his desires in order to remain chaste
· those who hearts were attached to the Mosques, longing to
return every time they left them
· those who loved one another for God’s sake
· those who were tempted by seductively beautiful women, but
their fear of God stopped them from sinning
· the one who spent in charity sincerely for God’s sake,
keeping their charity secret
· the one who wept out of God’s fear in solitude
Specific acts of worship will also keep people safe on that day,
namely:
· efforts in this world to relieve the woes of the distressed,
to help the needy, and to overlook the mistakes of others will relieve
people’s own distress on Judgment Day[4]
· leniency shown to the indebted[5]
· the just who are fair to their families and matters entrusted
to them[6]
· controlling anger[7]
· whoever calls to prayer[8]
· growing old while in a state of Islam[9]
· performing ritual ablution (wudu’) regularly and properly[10]
· those who fight alongside Jesus son of Mary against the Anti-
Christ and his army[11]
· martyrdom
God will bring the believer close to Him, shelter him, cover him, and
ask him about his sins. After acknowledging his sins he will believe
he is doomed, but God will say:
“I concealed it for you in the world, and I forgive it for you this
Day.”
He will be rebuked for his shortcomings,[12] but will then be handed
his record of good deeds in his right hand.[13]
“Then as for he who is given his record in his right hand, he will be
judged with an easy account and return to his people in
happiness.” (Quran 84:7-8)
Happy to look at his record, he will announce his joy:
“So as for he who is given his record in his right hand, he will say,
‘Here, read my record! Indeed, I was certain that I would be meeting
my account.’ So he will be in a pleasant life – in an elevated
Garden, its [fruit] to be picked hanging near. [He will be told],
‘Eat and drink in satisfaction for what you put forth in the days
past.’” (Quran 69:19-24)
The record of good deeds will then be weighed, literally, to determine
whether it outweighs the person’s record of bad deeds, and so that
reward or punishment be meted out accordingly.
“And We place the scales of justice for the Day of Resurrection, so no
soul will be treated unjustly at all. And if there is [any deed even]
the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth. And sufficient
are We to take account.” (Quran 21:47)
“So whoever worked even an atom’s weight of good will see (the good
fruits of his labor).” (Quran 99:7)
“The heaviest thing that will be placed in a person’s Balance on the
Day of Resurrection [after the testimony of Faith] is good manners,
and God hates the obscene, immoral person.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
The believers will quench their thirst from a special reservoir
dedicated to the Prophet Muhammad. Whoever drinks from it shall never
experience thirst again. Its beauty, immenseness, and sweet, fine
taste have been described in detail by the Prophet.
The believers in Islam – both the sinful amongst them and the pious –
as well as the hypocrites will be left in the great plain after the
unbelievers are driven to Hell. A long bridge traversing the Hellfire
and engulfed in darkness will separate them from Paradise.[14] The
faithful will take strength and comfort in their swift crossing over
the roaring fires of Hell and in the ‘light’ that God will place in
front of them, guiding them to their eternal home:
“On the Day you see the believing men and believing women, their light
proceeding before them and on their right, [it will be said], ‘Your
good tidings today are of gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein
you will abide eternally.’ Indeed in that is the great
success.” (Quran 57:12)
Finally, after crossing the bridge, the faithful will be purified
before they are entered into Paradise. All scores between believers
will be settled so that no one man nurses a grudge against another.
[15]
Footnotes:
[1] In the sense that he does not fear God’s punishment and thus
commits sins.
[2] Silsila Al-Saheehah.
[3] Saheeh Al-Bukhari.
[4] Saheeh Al-Bukhari.
[5] Mishkat.
[6] Saheeh Muslim.
[7] Musnad.
[8] Saheeh Muslim.
[9] Jami al-Sagheer.
[10] Saheeh Al-Bukhari.
[11] Ibn Majah.
[12] Mishkat.
[13] Saheeh Al-Bukhari. A sign that they are from the inhabitants of
Paradise, as opposed to those who will be given their record of deeds
in their left hands or behind their backs.
[14] Saheeh Muslim.
[15] Saheeh Al-Bukhari
imanway
Rich
> ... all of the Quran was written
> then compiled in the era of Abu Bakr
>
> it did not lost any text from it
I find it interesting that Abu Bakr, the guy who suppressed all other
versions of the Quran but his own, is "regarded as a usurper and political
opportunist".
It turns out that Ali ibn Abi Talib was the only person born in the Kaaba
sanctuary in Mecca, the holiest place in Islam, and one of the first to
convert is Islam.
"Shia Islam holds that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of
the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as
Imams, have special spiritual and political rule over the community. Shia
Muslims further believe that Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, was the
first of these Imams and was the rightful successor to Muhammad"
http://www.answers.com/topic/shia-islam
"After uniting the Arabian tribes into a single Muslim religious polity in
the last years of his life, Muhammad's death in 632 signalled disagreement
over who would succeed him as leader of the Muslim community. While Ali and
the rest of Muhammad's close family were washing his body for burial, at a
gathering attended by a small group of Muslims at Saqifah, a close companion
of Muhammad named Abu Bakr was nominated for the leadership of the
community. Others added their support and Abu Bakr was made the first
caliph. The choice of Abu Bakr disputed by some of the Muhammad's
companions, who held that Ali had been designated his successor by Muhammad
himself.
Following his election to the caliphate, Abu Bakr and Umar with a few other
companions headed to Fatimah's house to obtain homage from Ali and his
supporters who had gathered there. Then, it is alleged that Umar threatened
to set the house on fire unless they came out and swore allegiance with Abu
Bakr. Then Umar set the house on fire and pushed the burnt door on Fatima.
Some sources say upon seeing them, Ali came out with his sword drawn but was
put in chains by Umar and their companions. Fatimah, in support of her
husband, started a commotion and threatened to "uncover her hair", at which
Abu Bakr relented and withdrew. Ali is reported to have repeatedly said that
had there been forty men with him he would have resisted. When Abu Bakr's
selection to the caliphate was presented as a fait accompli, Ali withheld
his oaths of allegiance until after the death of Fatimah. Ali did not
actively assert his own right because he did not want to throw the nascent
Muslim community into strife.[4]
http://www.answers.com/topic/ali-12#Succession_to_Muhammad
IOW, if at the time Ali would have had 40 men with him, Abu Bakr "small
group of Muslims" would not have been able to take control of Islam by
force.
tlastis
-----------------------------------------
Hasan on Islam:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/10/GA2009111000920.html?sid=ST2009110903704
or
http://tinyurl.com/ybrrvzy
British Muslim leader: Only Muslims are innocent:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/12/british-muslim-leader-only-muslims-are-innocent.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/yjyrtla
Can Infidels Be Innocents?:
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/08/can-infidels-be-innocents
or
http://tinyurl.com/yhrzufw
-----------------------------------------
Rich
>
>
>
> NOW.....I think I have become in the world of ghosts ...... house of
> ghosts .....as ( Casper)
>
> http://www.egyptnetcafe.com/cartoon/images/casper.jpg
>
> http://www.g1o1.com/games/files/Cartoon/10.gif......................EXCUSE
> ME !
Childlike cartoons is one way to look at it... There are more mature ways to
understand what those may be. 'Ghosts' are but one of many different bodies
that Soul can animate. Perhaps because they are closer in vibratory rate to
physical bodies, many people can imagine and even 'see' them. But that was
not what I was writing about.
> the law of the
> Spirit .............souls......consciousness ..........experience
> ....... return to the body .. ...etc
>
>
>> and many
> members of Eckankar experience it every day. You may say that they
> have not,
> but how could you know?
>
> or Rather where is it ?
It begins in the place of heaven, dreams, imagination, the astral plane,
visions, revelations, and much more. All are located within the Light and
Sound of God. It co-exists right here. You can not see, touch, smell, hears
or taste feelings, yet they exist, yes? It is like that. The way to know it
is by experiencing it yourself. The mind can be trained to reject such
experiences. A veil is drawn to limit awareness until Soul is ready to take
another step in perception. The mind can also be train to accept such
perceptions. Like any other skill, it takes practice. That is what Eckankar
teaches. You can learn to prove these realities and truths through your own
experience.
>> There is a difference between who climb to( summit Everest ) and
>> returned and between who did not return (died)
>
>
>> Yes. Everest is limited to earthly consciousness. Soul is not
>> limited.
>
> he / she climbs with his/ her soul .....body no !
>
> that Soul is not limited into hereafter only.......if was that right
> what about your soul then ?
>
> What is the thing that distinguishes your soul about my soul ?
First of all I do not have a Soul. I am Soul.
The essence of Soul is the same. It can be thought of as a spark of God or a
unit of awareness. What distinguishes one from another is each had unique
experiences. For example, as Soul I have manifested a male physical body
living in the USA, while you have manifested a female physical body in Saudi
Arabia. My experience here are different than yours. In fact, no one has the
exact same experiences, feelings, or thoughts that you do. That makes you
unique.
Through many lifetimes these different experiences refine Soul. It continues
to expand It's experiences and thus becomes more conscious of Itself as a
divine Being, through the experience of It's own creations. The creations
'die' but Soul does not.
>> You misunderstand. Just as I do not rely on the words Mohammad,
>> Buddha,
> Jesus, or any other spiritual leader
>
> pleas .....buddha Just a myth and the illusion ..do not put him with
> mohammad and jesus
I wonder why you believe that? Historical evidence shows that Siddhartha was
born in the year 563 B.C. in the village of Lumbini near Kapila Vastu, in
Nepal. Islam doesn't teach he was a myth.
http://www.harunyahya.com/buddhism05.php
http://www.islamawareness.net/Buddhism/
http://www.defending-islam.com/page119.html
http://www.islamandbuddhism.com/3.html
>> The Hereafter exists as another state of consciousness. One of the
>> seven
> heavens if you like. Those who have died exist in it Now.
>
> hereafter exists as reality as our existed and its station would be
> our died
>
> Not all of the die is in heaven right now ...has qualifications
Yes, I understand that Islam sets limitations and qualifications. I'm sure
there are many Soul's with their attention stuck in the cold dark ground for
centuries where a body they used to inhabit that has long ago disintegrated
back into the dirt of the earth waits for the day of Resurrection. I am also
sure that some of those Souls learned in that state of consciousness, got
tired of waiting, and discovered they could move on to a new lifetime.
>> We can not know the details climber summit if he died in his journey
>> to the summit
>
>
>> We? You obviously do not know, but you have no way of knowing others
>> experiences, and thus can not speak for them.
>
> OKAY ...me ...you ...we... do not know details climber summit if he
> died in his journey
>
> do you know any dead has told you about his / her situation now
Yes, several times. More importantly, I can recall a few of the experience
of dying I had in previous lifetimes.
> it is surprises have occurred to him impossible to know
>
> which I meant that The Journey into the Hereafter ( It is an
> experience only for the dead )
I understand that you have been taught to believe that some things are
impossible. That is OK with me. It is my experience that nothing in the
worlds of God is impossible. The physical world, like the seven heavens and
more, are all part of God.
> So climber summit is not as read ... or hear about a summit anyway
>
> I hope to understand what I mean
Yes, I fully understand what you believe. I am not asking you to believe
what I write, but just to understand or allow for the possibilites.
imanway
rich ..... you have relied on sources of( Shia ) it called
(rafatah) ... that sources of Shia Muslims is not pure
they are largest source of distorting Islam no doubt ..they became
enemies of their religion
They are insulting the companions of the Messenger of Allah and his
wives and disbelieve Sunni Muslims ..... as quoted you to us now
(that find it in iranian sources especially )
I do not think Islam as that ...http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/
images/41465000/jpg/_41465540_......002.jpg
http://www.wahatalarab.com/Libraries/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1/224741.jpg
http://arabic.islamicweb.com/images/ashura.gif
Totally as Zionist sources ....they were the reason to distort the
image of Islam
Anyway it many details ....which I do not think it's Important for
you
Pleas do not rely on these sources when you read about Islam ..it my
duty to tell you the truth
Here Companions of the Prophet peace be upon him ...abu -
buker ....umar ....ali ..(God bless them )
imanway
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
tlastis .... without doubt this is the Zionist sources that does
not give you any good image of Islam
who is alleged to killing of innocent infidels ? when God said in the
Koran '' 151 - Say: come, I will rehearse what God hath (really)
prohibited you from: join not anything as equal with him; be good to
your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want; we provide
sustenance for you and for them; come not nigh to shameful deeds,
whether open or secret; take not life, which God hath made sacred,
except by way of justice and law: thus doth he command you, that ye
may learn wisdom.'' QURAN
allah said""
For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever
killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the
earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth
the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all
mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of
Allah's Sovereignty) , but afterwards lo! many of them became
prodigals in the earth.""
[AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD) Chapter 5: Verse 32]
allah said "" 68 - Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor
slay such life as God has made sacred, except for just cause, nor
commit fornication; and any that does this (not only) meets
punishment"" ALL-FRQAN
Mohammed peace be upon him said "Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had
become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)
and ..
"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his
adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a
Judgement." (Bukhari)
and ..''.Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts
me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)
and
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest,
should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep
quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)
and ...“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or
curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear,
or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet
Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of
Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)
I do not think that the Zionists tell you this !
imanway
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
I wonder why you believe that? Historical evidence shows that
Siddhartha was
born in the year 563 B.C. in the village of Lumbini near Kapila Vastu,
in
Nepal. Islam doesn't teach he was a myth.
http://www.harunyahya.com/buddhism05.php
http://www.islamawareness.net/Buddhism/
http://www.defending-islam.com/page119.html
http://www.islamandbuddhism.com/3.html
rich ...... Buddhism is not religion but rather a point of view of the
illusory with proof they are think that budda is lord
or god' son and there is no relationship to Islam with Buddhism at
all
Not every network includes the name of Islam is authentic
Today.. the easiest thing is to distort the truth does not cost
anything .. does it ?
imanway
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
all right rich ..... do you think that ECK is enough about
religions ....while it is (ECK) a way of life, or an expression of
freedom in my point
imanway
imanway
> PART 1
>
> Introduction
> Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam who passed away in 632, related:
>
> “Gabriel came to me and said, ‘O Muhammad, live as you wish, for you
> shall eventually die. Love whom you desire, for you shall eventually
> depart. Do what you please, for you shall pay. Know that the night-
> prayer[1] is the honor of a believer, and his pride is being
> independant on others.’” (Silsilah al-Saheehah)
>
> If there is only one thing certain about life, it is that it ends.
> This truism instinctively raises a question which preoccupies most
> people at least once in their life: What lies beyond death?
>
> At the physiological level, the journey that the deceased takes is
> plain for all to witness. If left alone to natural causes,[2] the
> heart will stop beating, the lungs will stop breathing, and the body’s
> cells will be starved of blood and oxygen. The termination of blood
> flow to the outer extremities will soon turn them pale. With the
> oxygen cut off, cells will respire anaerobically for a time, producing
> the lactic acid which causes rigor mortis – the stiffening of the
> corpse’s muscles. Then, as the cells begin to decompose, the
> stiffness wanes, the tongue protrudes, the temperature drops, the skin
> discolors, the flesh rots, and the parasites have their feast - until
> all that is left is dried-out tooth and bone.
>
> that can be witnessed, nor can it be gauged through scientific
> enquiry. Even in a living body, the conscious, or soul, of a person
> cannot be subjected to empirical experimentation. It is simply beyond
> human control. In this regard, the concept of a Hereafter - a life
> beyond death, resurrection, and a Day of Reckoning; not to mention the
> existence of a Divine, Omnipotent Creator, His angels, destiny, and so
> on - comes under the subject of belief in the unseen. The only way in
> which man can come to know anything of the unseen world is through
> divine revelation.
>
PART 4 ......
Paradise
The believers will be ushered on towards the grand eight gates of
Paradise. There, they will receive a joyous angelic reception and be
congratulated on account of their safe arrival and salvation from
Hell.
“But those who feared their Lord will be driven to Paradise in groups
until, when they reach it while its gates have been opened and its
keepers say, ‘Peace be upon you; you have become pure; so enter it to
abide eternally therein.” (Quran 39:73)
(It will be said to the pious): “O (you) the one in (complete) rest
and satisfaction! Come back to your Lord, Well-pleased and well-
pleasing unto Him! Enter you then among My honored slaves. Enter you
My Paradise!” (Quran 89:27-30)
The best of the Muslims will enter Paradise first. The most righteous
of them will ascend to the highest levels.[1]
“But whoever comes to God as a believer (in His Oneness, etc.) and has
done righteous good deeds; for such are the high ranks (in the
Hereafter).” (Quran 20:75)
“And the foremost (in faith) will be foremost (in the Hereafter);
those are the ones brought near to God in the Gardens of Pleasure;
they will enter in one rank with bright faces.” (Quran 56:10-2)
The Quranic description of Paradise gives us a vision of just what a
fantastic place it is. An eternal home that will fulfill all our
wholesome desires, seduce all our senses, grant us everything we could
possibly want and much more besides. God describes His Paradise as
having earth made of is fine musk powder,[2] soil of saffron,[3]
bricks of gold and silver, and pebbles of pearls and rubies. Beneath
the gardens of Paradise are flowing rivers of sparkling water, sweet
milk, clear honey, and non-intoxicating wine. The tents on their
banks are domes of hollow pearls.[4] The whole space is filled with
sparkling light, sweet-smelling plants and fragrances that can be
savored from afar.[5] There are lofty palaces, huge mansions,
grapevines, date palms, pomegranate trees,[6] lotus and acacia trees
whose trunks of made of gold.[7] Ripe, abundant fruit of all kinds:
berries, citrus, drupes, grapes, melons, pomes; all kinds of fruit,
tropical and exotic; anything the faithful could possibly desire!
“…And therein is whatever each soul desires and delights the
eyes...” (Quran 43:71)
Each believer will have a most beautiful, pious and pure spouse,
wearing exquisite clothing; And there will be so much more in a new
world of eternal, radiant joy.
“And no soul knows what has been hidden for them of comfort for eyes
[i.e. satisfaction] as reward for what they used to do.” (Quran 32:17)
As well as physical delights, Paradise will also give its residents a
state of emotional and psychological bliss, as the Prophet said:
“Whoever enters Paradise is blessed with a life of joy; he will never
feel miserable, his clothes will never wear out, and his youth shall
never fade away. The people will hear a divine call: ‘I grant you
that you will be healthy and never fall sick, you will live and never
die, you will be young and never age, you will be joyful and never
feel miserable.’” (Saheeh Muslim)
Ultimately, the thing that will most delight the eyes will be the
Countenance of God Himself. For the true believer, to see this
blessed vision of God is to have won the ultimate prize.
“[Some] faces, that Day, will be radiant, looking at their
Lord.” (Quran 75:22-23)
This is the Paradise, the eternal home and final destination of the
righteous believer. May God, Most High, make us worthy of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Footnotes:
[1] Sahih al-Jami.
[2] Saheeh Muslim
[3] Mishkat
[4] Saheeh Al-Bukhari
[5] Sahih al-Jami
[6] Quran 56:27-32
[7] Sahih al-Jami
imanway
Rich
> rich ..... you have relied on sources of( Shia ) it called
> (rafatah) ... that sources of Shia Muslims is not pure
>
> they are largest source of distorting Islam no doubt ..they became
> enemies of their religion
>
> They are insulting the companions of the Messenger of Allah and his
> wives and disbelieve Sunni Muslims ..... as quoted you to us now
> (that find it in iranian sources especially )
I am finding so much about Islam. More than I ever imagined, thanks to you.
Here is what I found out so far:
Ali was born in the Kaaba sanctuary in Mecca, a close companion and family
to Muhammad, the first male convert to Islam, and became the fourth Caliph
after the murder of Uthman the third Caliph. The vast majority of Muslims
continued to be united under Ali when he became the Caliph, yet some tribes
demanded revenge for the blood of Uthman. Ali did not want to start wars by
taking revenge because he thought it was not proven who the actual murderers
were. Eventually Muawiya(who in his early life was as one of the staunchest
enemies of Mohammad and of Islam) started wars against the Islamic
government of Ali, and broke away starting the Sunni branch of Islam.
http://www.ismaili.net/histoire/history03/history338.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muawiyah_I
http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b1talib-ali-ibn-abu.htm
Shiites say Muawiya was not pure. He distorted Islam.... Christians think
Mohammad distorted the truth, Jews think that the Christians are wrong, and
I think whatever gets one closer to God, living a life based in love, is OK
with me.
> I do not think Islam as that ...http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/
> images/41465000/jpg/_41465540_......002.jpg
>
> http://www.wahatalarab.com/Libraries/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1/224741.jpg
>
> http://arabic.islamicweb.com/images/ashura.gif
>
>
> Totally as Zionist sources ....they were the reason to distort the
> image of Islam
Why are you showing me these? They have nothing to do with what I was
writing...
> Anyway it many details ....which I do not think it's Important for
> you
I think I will decide what is important for me. You bring up issues and
details, I'll look at them from many sides, or not at all if they do not
interest me.
> Pleas do not rely on these sources when you read about Islam ..it my
> duty to tell you the truth
I never saw the sources you cited until you posted the links. I understand
you are compelled to tell your version of the truth.
> Here Companions of the Prophet peace be upon him ...abu -
> buker ....umar ....ali ..(God bless them )
May the Blessings Be,
Rich
>
>
>
> all right rich ..... do you think that ECK is enough about
> religions ....while it is (ECK) a way of life, or an expression of
> freedom in my point
ECK is the Light and Sound of God. By definition it "encompasses the
teaching of all religions and philosophies". It is "the thread that binds
together all beings in all planes, all universes, throughout all time, and
beyond all time into eternity." Eckankar teaches that anyone can look to
this source(the ECK) and have direct experience with their own truth about
life, themself as Soul, and God. It is via the ECK that one can learn to
experience the heavens, other realities, truths, and more expanded states of
consciousness. Mastering those is spiritual freedom.
Etznab
Imanway,
People describe Eckankar differently according to their
own experience.
One definition for the word Eckankar is Co-worker with
God.
Eckankar has different names that are used for "God".
IMO, a name is a symbol for something. Not the thing
itself.
I believe everybody is a "co-worker" with God, each in
their own way.
Glad you are here.
Etznab
imanway
>
> Shiites say Muawiya was not pure. He distorted Islam.... Christians think
> Mohammad distorted the truth, Jews think that the Christians are wrong, and
> I think whatever gets one closer to God, living a life based in love, is OK
> with me.
>
> > I do not think Islam as that ...http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/
> > images/41465000/jpg/_41465540_......002.jpg
>
>
> >http://arabic.islamicweb.com/images/ashura.gif
>
> > Totally as Zionist sources ....they were the reason to distort the
> > image of Islam
>
> Why are you showing me these? They have nothing to do with what I was
> writing...
>
> > Anyway it many details ....which I do not think it's Important for
> > you
>
> I think I will decide what is important for me. You bring up issues and
> details, I'll look at them from many sides, or not at all if they do not
> interest me.
>
> > Pleas do not rely on these sources when you read about Islam ..it my
> > duty to tell you the truth
>
> I never saw the sources you cited until you posted the links. I understand
> you are compelled to tell your version of the truth.
>
> > Here Companions of the Prophet peace be upon him ...abu -
> > buker ....umar ....ali ..(God bless them )
>
> May the Blessings Be,
>
> ` o
> |
> ~/|
> _/ |\
> / | \
> -/ | \
> _/____|___\_
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rich .....good that you read about islam ..
this good site
http://www.muslimconverts.com/muslimheroes/index.htm
Why are you showing me these? They have nothing to do with what I was
writing ?
when I was put it as proof that they are working ritual has nothing
to do with Islam
as in pic above .....
> Shiites say Muawiya was not pure. He distorted Islam.... Christians think
Mohammad distorted the truth, Jews think that the Christians are
wrong, and
I think whatever gets one closer to God, living a life based in love,
is OK
with me.
All companions of the Prophet peace be upon him are pure
Volume 5, Book 57, Number 22:
Narrated Abu Said:
The Prophet muhammed peace be upon him said, "Do not abuse my
companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah's
Cause) it would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one
of them."
Also, in al-Bukharee, "The best of the people are my generation, then
those after them, then those after them..." This is also reported by
Muslim, Aboo Dawood, at-Tirmidhee, An-Nasa'ee and others.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) also said, "...and my Ummah will
divide into seventy-three sects."
[Aboo Dawood, at-Tirmidhee, Ibn Majah, al-Hakim, Ahmad, authenticated
by at-Tirmidhee, al Hakim, ibn Taymeeyah, as-Suyootee, al-Manawee, ash-
Shatibee, adh-Dhahabee and al-Albanee]. I
The Prophet (peace be upon him)) said, "The tribes of Israel broke
into seventy- two sects. My Ummah shall break up into seventy-three
sects. All of them will be in the Fire, except one: what I am upon and
my Companions." [At-Tirmidhee, Hasan ]
> I think whatever gets one closer to God, living a life based in love, is OK
with me.
YES ...Message of our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him calling for
love and peace even with the Jews and Christians
OK it is gets one closer to God...........who is one closer to God in
your concept ?
imanway
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
etznab ....rich ..
Question for you ....
who created the sky( where clouds and moon and the sun and stars
appear) ?
There are (day) and (night) ....(who were responsible about happen
it ? )
imanway
imanway
> Footnotes:
> [1] Sahih al-Jami.
>
> [2] Saheeh Muslim
>
> [3] Mishkat
>
> [4] Saheeh Al-Bukhari
>
> [5] Sahih al-Jami
>
> [6] Quran 56:27-32
>
> [7] Sahih al-Jami
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Journey into the Hereafter (part 5 of 8): The Unbeliever in the
Grave
As death approaches the wicked disbeliever, he is made to feel
something of the heat of the Hellfire. This taste of what is to come
causes him to plead for a second chance on earth to do the good he
knew he should have done. Alas! His pleading will be in vain.
“Until, when death comes to one of them, he says: ‘O my Lord. Send me
back to life (on earth) in order that I may do good deeds in the
things that I neglected.’ By no means! It is only an utterance that
he says. And before them is a barrier (preventing them from
returning: the life of the grave) until the Day (of Resurrection) they
are ressurected.” (Quran 23:99-100)
Divine wrath and punishment is conveyed to the wicked soul by
hideously ugly, dark angels who sit far away from it:
“Receive glad tidings of boiling water, wound discharge, and multiple,
similar torments.” (Ibn Majah, Ibn Katheer)
The disbelieving soul will not look forward to meeting its Lord God,
as the Prophet explained:
“When the time of the death of a disbeliever approaches, he receives
the evil news of God’s torment and His Requital, whereupon nothing is
more hateful to him than what is before him. Therefore, he hates the
meeting with God, and God too, hates the meeting with him.” (Saheeh Al-
Bukhari)
The Prophet also said:
“Whoever loves to meet God, God loves to meet him, and whoever hates
to meet God, God hates to meet him.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)
The Angel of Death sits at the head of the disbeliever in his grave
and says: “Wicked soul, come out to the displeasure of Allah” as he
snatches the soul out of the body.
“And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming
pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, saying, ‘Save
yourselves! Today you will be awarded the punishment of extreme
humiliation for what you used to say against God other than the truth,
and that you were, toward His verses, being arrogant.” (Quran 6:93)
“And if you could not see when the angels take the souls of those who
disbelieved… striking their faces and their backs and saying, ‘Taste
the punishment of the Blazing Fire.’” (Quran 8:50)
The evil soul leaves the body with great difficulty, drawn out by the
angels as a thronged skewer is dragged through wet wool.[1] The Angel
of Death then seizes the soul and puts it in a sack woven from hair
which gives off a putrid stench, as foul and offensive as the most
foul-smelling rotting corpse found on earth. The angels then take the
soul up past another company of angels who inquire: “Who is this
wicked soul?” to which they reply: “So and so, the son of so and so?”
- using the very worst of names that he was ever called during his
time on earth. Then, when he is brought to the lowest heaven, a
request is made that its gate be opened for him, but the request is
denied. Whilst the Prophet was describing these events, when he
reached this point, he recited:
“The gates of heaven will not be opened for them and they will not
enter paradise until a camel can pass through the eye of a
needle.” (Quran 7:40)
God will say: “Record his book in Sijjeen in the lowest earth.”
…and his soul is cast down. At this juncture, the Prophet, may the
mercy and blessings of God be upon him, recited:
“He who assigns partners to Allah is as if he had fallen down from
heaven and been snatched up by the birds, or made to fall by the wind
in a place far distant.” (Quran 22:31)
The wicked soul is then restored to its body and the two fearsome,
dread-inspiring angels, Munkar and Nakeer, come to it for its
interrogation. After making him sit up, they ask:
Munkar and Nakeer: “Who is your Lord?”
Disbelieving soul: “Alas, alas, I do not know.”
Munkar and Nakeer: “What is your religion?”
Disbelieving soul: “Alas, alas, I do not know.”
Munkar and Nakeer: “What do you say about this man (Muhammad) sent to
you?”
Disbelieving soul: “Alas, alas I do not know.”
Having failed his test, the disbeliever’s head will be struck with an
iron hammer with a force so violent that it would crumble a mountain.
The cry will be heard from heaven: “He has lied, so spread out carpets
of Hell for him, and open for him a portal into Hell.”[2] The floor
of his grave is thus set alight with some of Hell’s fierce fire, and
his grave is made narrow and constricted to the extent that his ribs
become intertwined as his body is crushed.[3] Then, an incredibly
ugly being, wearing ugly garments and giving off a foul and offensive
odor comes to the disbelieving soul and says: “Be grieved with what
displeases you, for this is your day which you have been promised.”
The disbeliever will ask: “Who are you, with your face so ugly and
bringing evil?” The ugly one will reply: “l am your wicked deeds!”
The disbeliever is then made to taste bitter remorse as he is shown
what would have been his abode in Paradise - had he lived a righteous
life - before a portal is opened for him every morning and evening
showing him his actual home in Hell.[4] Allah mentions in His Book
how the wicked people of Pharaoh are, at this very moment, suffering
from such an exposure to Hell from within their graves:
“The Fire: they are exposed to it, morning and afternoon, and on the
Day when the Hour will be established (it will be said to the angels):
‘(Now) cause Pharaoh’s people to enter the severest torment!’” (Quran
40:46)
Overcome with fear and loathing, anxiety and despair, the disbeliever
in his grave will keep asking: “My Lord, do not bring the last hour.
Do not bring the last hour.”
The Companion, Zaid b. Thabit, narrated how, when the Prophet Muhammad
and his Companions were once passing some graves of polytheists, the
Prophet’s horse bolted and almost unseated him. The Prophet, may the
mercy and blessings of God be upon him, then said:
“These people are being tortured in their graves, and were it not that
you would stop burying your dead, I would ask God to let you hear the
punishment in the grave which I (and this horse) can hear.” (Saheeh
Muslim)
Footnotes:
[1] Al-Hakim, Abu Dawood, and others.
[2] Musnad Ahmad.
[3] Musnad Ahmad.
[4] Ibn Hibban.
imanway
Etznab
etznab ....rich ..
Question for you ....
imanway
**************************************************************************
Imanway,
I don't know who did.
Etznab
tlastis
-----------------------------------------
Peace or Jihad? Abrogation in Islam:
http://www.meforum.org/1754/peace-or-jihad-abrogation-in-islam
or
http://tinyurl.com/ykt3zgl
Abrogation and Jihad
How does the theological debate over abrogation impact contemporary
policy formulation? While not all terrorism is rooted in Islam, the
religion is an enabler for many. It is wrong to assume that more
extreme interpretations of religion are illegitimate. Statements that
there is no compulsion in religion and that jihad is primarily about
internal struggle and not about holy war may receive applause in
university lecture halls and diplomatic board rooms, but they
misunderstand the importance of abrogation in Islamic theology. It is
important to acknowledge that what university scholars believe, and
what most Muslims—or more extreme Muslims—believe are two different
things. For many Islamists and radical Muslims, abrogation is real and
what the West calls terror is, indeed, just.
During the lifetime of Muhammad, the Islamic community passed through
three stages. In the beginning from 610 until 622, God commanded
restraint. As the Muslims relocated to Medina (623-26), God permitted
Muslims only to fight in a defensive war. However, in the last six
years of Muhammad's life (626-32), God permitted Muslims to fight an
aggressive war first against polytheists,and later against monotheists
like the Jews of Khaybar. Once Muhammad was given permission to kill
in the name of God, he instigated battle.
Chapter 9 of the Qur'an, in English called "Ultimatum," is the most
important concerning the issues of abrogation and jihad against
unbelievers. It is the only chapter that does not begin "in the name
of God, most benevolent, ever-merciful."Commentators agree that
Muhammad received this revelation in 631, the year before his death,
when he had returned to Mecca and was at his strongest. Muhammad bin
Ismail al-Bukhari (810-70), compiler of one of the most authoritative
collections of the hadith, said that "Ultimatum" was the last chapter
revealed to Muhammad although others suggest it might have been
penultimate. Regardless, coming at or near the very end of Muhammad's
life, "Ultimatum" trumps earlier revelations.
Because this chapter contains violent passages, it abrogates previous
peaceful content. Muhsin Khan, the translator of Sahih al-Bukhari,
says God revealed "Ultimatum" in order to discard restraint and to
command Muslims to fight against all the pagans as well as against the
People of the Book if they do not embrace Islam or until they pay
religious taxes. So, at first aggressive fighting was forbidden; it
later became permissible (2:190) and subsequently obligatory
(9:5).This "verse of the sword" abrogated, canceled, and replaced 124
verses that called for tolerance, compassion, and peace.
Suyuti said that everything in the Qur'an about forgiveness and peace
is abrogated by verse 9:5, which orders Muslims to fight the
unbelievers and to establish God's kingdom on earth.
Prior to receiving "Ultimatum," Muhammad had reached agreements with
various Arab tribes. But when God gave Muhammad a revelation
(2:190-2), Muhammad felt justified in breaking his cease-fire. For
Isma'il bin Kathir (1301-73), a student of Ibn Taymiyya and an
influential Qur'an interpreter in his own right, it is clear: As jihad
involves death and the killing of men, God draws attention to the fact
that disbelief, polytheism, and avoidance of God's path as shown by
the Qur'an are worse than killing them.This creates license for future
generations of Muslims to kill non-Muslims solely on the basis of
their refusal to accept Islam.
According to Ibn Kathir in his commentary on Chapter 9:5, Abu Bakr al-
Siddiq, the first caliph, used this and other verses to validate
fighting anyone who either did not pay religious taxes to the Muslims
or convert to Islam. Ibn ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab, one of the hadith
transmitters, quoted Muhammad as saying, "I have been commanded to
fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of
worship except God and that Muhammad is the Messenger of God." He
testified that Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim, an authentic transmitter of
hadiths, said that the verse of the sword "abrogated every agreement
of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every
term." ‘Awfi cited Ibn ‘Abbas, who argued that "Ultimatum" obviated
earlier peace treaties.The Shafi‘i school took this as a justification
for killing anyone who abandoned prayer and for fighting anyone who
refused to pay increased religious minority taxes.
Such interpretations resonate. Muhammad Sa‘id Ramadan al-Buti, a
contemporary Al-Azhar University scholar, wrote that "the verse (9:5)
does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called
defensive war. This verse asserts that holy war, which is demanded in
Islamic law, is not a defensive war because it could legitimately be
an offensive war. That is the apex and most honorable of all holy
wars. Its goal is the exaltation of the word of God, the construction
of Islamic society, and the establishment of God's kingdom on earth
regardless of the means. It is legal to carry on an offensive holy
war."
Defensive warfare in Islam is nothing but a phase of the Islamic
mission that the Prophet practiced. After that, it was followed by
another phase, that is, calling all people to embrace Islam. Even for
People of the Book, there can be no role except conversion to Islam or
subjugation to Muslim rule. Hence, Muhammad's statement, "They would
not invade you, but you invade them."
-----------------------------------------
Rich
> etznab ....rich ..
>
> Question for you ....
>
>
> who created the sky( where clouds and moon and the sun and stars
> appear) ?
>
> There are (day) and (night) ....(who were responsible about happen
> it ? )
You, as Soul, create your reality.
From the human state of consciousness it can appear that one of the dualist
Gods such as Allah is responsible, and in a way that is also true.
These definitions are from The Eckankar Lexicon
Creation -
The finished worlds, established for the purpose of providing a training
ground for SOUL. Its original is within each Soul, and all is within the
SUGMAD. The worlds of energy, matter, space, and time created by the sound
of HU, the WORD, the ECK SPIRIT, and sustained by It. The product of MIND
knowing, expressed in form by mind thinking.
Sugmad - SOOG-mahd
The supreme God. The formless, all-embracing, impersonal, infinite, the
OCEAN OF LOVE AND MERCY; from It flows all life, all truth, all reality; all
WISDOM, LOVE, and POWER; all visible lords of all regions are Its
MANIFESTATIONS; It takes many forms in order that Its purposes may be
carried out in all CREATIONS, but none of them express Its totality, as It
remains formless, impersonal, and all-pervading; the universal SPIRIT,
universal life; the supreme God; what there is and all there is, so that no
name can really be given It except the poetic name of God; It is neither old
nor new, great nor small, shaped nor shapeless; having no opposite, It is
what opposites have in common; It is the reason why there is no white
without black and no form apart from emptiness; it has an inside called
NIRGUNA, which is to say It has no qualities and nothing can be said or
thought about It, and an outside called SAGUNA, which is to say that It may
be considered as eternal reality, CONSCIOUSNESS, and joy.
Rich
>> I think whatever gets one closer to God, living a life based in
>> love, is OK
> with me.
>
> YES ...Message of our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him calling for
> love and peace even with the Jews and Christians
>
>
> OK it is gets one closer to God...........who is one closer to God in
> your concept ?
I do not presume to be able to make such a judgment because it cannot be
based on outward appearance alone. Being closer to God has little to do with
any one religion. Belief systems with their dogma, ritualistic practices and
philosophies do help some people. Yet each Soul is unique. How can one
judges Soul? Perhaps a person who perceives a direct perception with
non-dualistic consciousness is close?
Here is what Sri Harold Klemp has said:
"People don�t realize that God has provided all these
different religions for a specific purpose: to fit all the
different levels of consciousness that exist on earth.
Somebody who is a good Lutheran may have an entirely
different set of ethics from someone who practices Islam.
"People who are in the top 5 percent of any religious group -
if you are going to grade them spiritually or closeness to
God - have very much in common. They are generally people
who are filled with love. They are people who know the two
laws that I told you about.[Maybury�s Laws] http://bit.ly/FdBwe
"They understand that just obeying laws, following the letter
of the law, is not living in the heart of God.
"The point of any religion should be this: how to open your
heart to love. Because God is love. And if you can achieve
that through the religion you are in now, the religion is
right for you. But if your heart is not opening to love,
then the religion is not right for you. Or, let�s say it
another way: you�re not right for that religion."
- Harold Klemp from The Slow Burning Love of God
imanway
etznab ,
I think it is not convincing that you do not know
Do try now
imanway
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
you still carrying to efforts of others against Islam
do not talk by tongue of others
There are things beautiful do not know it
may allah guide you
imanway
imanway
OK ....you meant that there are tow god ...or three or more from the
Lord
was collaborated in the creation of these
who tooks the largest share in your opinion ....god 1 .....god 2 ....
god 3 ....etc
imanway
Rich
> OK it is gets one closer to God...........who is one closer to God in
> your concept ?
http://bit.ly/I1Gbn
full link:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/karen_armstrong_makes_her_ted_prize_wish_the_charter_for_compassion.html
You can get text translation into Arabic.
imanway
I think that the love of God is in religions especially religion which
is God's choice
Do you think that God loves to religion more than the other?
imanway
> Footnotes:
> [1] Sahih al-Jami.
>
> [2] Saheeh Muslim
>
> [3] Mishkat
>
> [4] Saheeh Al-Bukhari
>
> [5] Sahih al-Jami
>
> [6] Quran 56:27-32
>
> [7] Sahih al-Jami
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
PART 5
Another one of the amazing signs shortly before the Day of Judgment is
the return and descending of Jesus, peace and blessings of God be upon
him, to this earth again. God says in the Quran:
“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah Jesus, son
of Mary, the Messenger of God,’ - but they did not kill him and nor
did they crucify him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over
another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein
are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow
nothing but conjecture. Surely, they did not kill him. But God
raised him (Jesus) up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is
in the heavens). And God is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise. And there
is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must
believe in him (Jesus) before his death. And on the Day of
Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them.” (Quran
4:157-159)
The words, “And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and
Christians), but must believe in him (Jesus) before his death,” refer
to Jesus’ worldly death after he returns to earth. At that time, the
Jews and Christians will finally believe in him as a Messenger of God
and a human being only, as that will be the only option possible at
that time. In fact, some scholars state that part of the wisdom in
Jesus’ return is the final and undeniable refutation of the Jews’
claim that they had crucified him and to bring an end to the false
claim that he was the Son of God.
There are numerous hadeeth which speak about the coming of Jesus
during the last days of this world. They give a description of many
of the acts of Jesus after his return.
As is clear from the last hadeeth presented under the section
concerning the Dajjaal, Jesus’ return will occur while the false
messiah is upon the earth. The following is the continuation of the
above hadeeth:
“He [the Dajjaal] would then call a person brimming with youth and
strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these
pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and
his target. He would then call (that young man) and he will come
forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness) and it would
be at this very time that God would send Christ, son of Mary, and he
will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus
wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands
on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would
fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it
up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every unbeliever who
would smell the odor of his being would die and his breath would reach
as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (the
Dajjaal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and
would kill him.”
Al-Bukhari and Muslim record that the Prophet, may the mercy and
blessings of God be upon him, stated:
“By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (may peace be upon
him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break
crosses, kill swine and abolish Jizyah[1] and the wealth will pour
forth to such an extent that no one will accept it.”
At the time of his appearance, he will bring an end to all of the
false beliefs which crept into Christianity. Thus, he will break all
of the crosses, as they signify a worship of him. Similarly, at his
time, he will not accept the jizyah because there will be no excuse
for any Jew or Christian not to believe in him and follow him. In
another narration of the same hadeeth, there is a mention of the state
of the followers of Jesus at that time. The Prophet said:
“He would leave the young she-camel and no one would endeavor to
(collect Zakat on it). Spite, mutual hatred and jealousy against one
another will certainly disappear and when he summons people to accept
wealth, not even one would accept it.” In other hadeeth, the following
is described, “Peace will prevail and people will use their swords as
sickles. Every harmful beast will be made harmless; the sky will send
down rain in abundance, and the earth will bring forth its blessings.
A child will play with a fox and not come to any harm; a wolf will
graze with sheep and a lion with cattle, without harming them.”[2]
At the time of Jesus’ return, the Muslims will be lead by the Mahdi (A
guided leader), as is mentioned in various hadeeth, such as the
Prophet’s words:
“What will be your state when the son of Mary descends among you and
there will be an Imam among you?” (Al-Bukhari, Muslim)
In another hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim, it reads:
“A section of my people will not cease fighting for the Truth and will
prevail till the Day of Resurrection.” He then said, “Jesus son of
Mary would then descend and their (Muslims’) commander would invite
him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say, ‘No, some among
you are commanders over some (among you). This is the honor from God
for this Nation.’”
This hadeeth is evidence that when Jesus returns, he will not return
in the role of being a new messenger with a new law. Instead, he will
return as a follower of the Prophet Muhammad and submitting to the
laws of Islam. In fact, another hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim describes
Jesus as performing the Islamic ritual of Hajj (pilgrimage).
A hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim further describes that Jesus will remain
ruling among the people for seven years. The Prophet said:
“Then people would live for seven years that there would be no rancor
between two persons. Then God would send cold wind from the side of
Syria that none would survive upon the earth having a speck of good in
him or faith in him but he would die, so much so that even if some
amongst you were to enter the innermost part of the mountain, this
wind would reach that place also and that would cause his death.” He
further said, “Only the wicked people would survive and they would be
as careless as birds with the characteristics of beasts. They would
never appreciate the good nor condemn evil.”
As stated earlier, when one of these great signs appear, the others
are soon to follow. It is in the context of Jesus’ return that the
Prophet also spoke about Gog and Magog.
Footnotes:
[1] Jizyah is the “exemption tax” that non-Muslims pay to the Islamic
state in lieu of military service.
[2] These items are mentioned in various hadeeth recorded by Ahmad,
ibn Hibbaan, Abu Dawood and others.
imanway
Kinpa
God has no care whatsoever for religion...
Kinpa
the TRUE God takes NO share, each share is part of God...
Kinpa
there is nothing of God in those words, just the ethnocentricity of
Muslims, BIG difference...
Rich
> I think that the love of God is in religions especially religion which
> is God's choice
>
> Do you think that God loves to religion more than the other?
What I consider God to be is far beyond religions. It's Love encompasses
All.
Rich
> OK ....you meant that there are tow god ...or three or more from the
> Lord
>
> was collaborated in the creation of these
>
> who tooks the largest share in your opinion ....god 1 .....god 2 ....
> god 3 ....etc
See the definition of Sugmad above. But that is not really It, because that
is only a name the mind uses for the Nameless. Consider that the mind is not
capable of encompassing infinity or non-duality...
God 1, 2, 3, et al are manifestations of It with different names. They are
the many in One. It is not a who, male or female, or an individual Being.
The mind can grasp poetic images like the OCEAN OF LOVE AND MERCY, all
WISDOM, LOVE, POWER. Yet if you can think of It, that is not It. It is
beyond human understanding. It's essence is formless, all-embracing,
impersonal; It is neither old nor new, great nor small, shaped nor
shapeless; having no opposite, It is what opposites have in common; It is
emptiness, It has no qualities and nothing can be said or thought about It.
It is eternal reality, consciousness, total awareness.
My closest perception might simply be Love that expands infinitely beyond
beginning and ending.
Rich
>> I think that the love of God is in religions especially religion
>> which is God's choice
>>
>> Do you think that God loves to religion more than the other?
>
> God has no care whatsoever for religion...
Even more I'd suggest It has no care, preferences, or references at All.
Rich
>>
>> OK ....you meant that there are tow god ...or three or more from the
>> Lord
>>
>> was collaborated in the creation of these
>>
>> who tooks the largest share in your opinion ....god 1 .....god 2 ....
>> god 3 ....etc
>>
>> imanway
>
> the TRUE God takes NO share, each share is part of God...
Yes, each share is part of It. Additional "each" is an individualization, an
egocentric consciousness. "True God" in my perception is a misnomer, in that
true is a dualistic understanding.
tlastis
-----------------------------------------
We are all free to post articles we find to be relevant. You post many
words of others here.
> may allah guide you
No thank you.
God of my understanding does not damn any person or group for
eternity. God of my understanding holds everyone to the same laws of
responsibility for their own actions, irregardless of religion.
-----
Thirteen Talks on Political Islam:
http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/category/thirteen-talks-on-political-islam/
or
http://tinyurl.com/ygjcqsa
-----------------------------------------
Kinpa
understandable, however, one can only speak to another within the
limits of that others perception...
Rich
>
> understandable, however, one can only speak to another within the
> limits of that others perception...
I understand. :-)
Sean
heart.
Prejudice - The Work of Byron Katie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vLJazT08o
Byron Katie in Israel 2007 - The Arab/Jew conflict
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48jk1cs077I
Byron Katie in Israel 2007- Fear of Terror Attack-Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o3ve8wewUU
=======================================
People either help to uplift and become more aware about Life, or they make
matters worse by feeding the Negativity and the influence of Niranjan.
It's a choice.
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
OK ...The whole universe was made by God .... sky .... earth ....
All the details of the universe
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
Or rather is ONE ( One person)
> It is not a who, male or female, or an individual Being.
The mind can grasp poetic images like the OCEAN OF LOVE AND MERCY,
all
WISDOM, LOVE, POWER. Yet if you can think of It, that is not It. It
is
beyond human understanding. It's essence is formless, all-embracing,
impersonal; It is neither old nor new, great nor small, shaped nor
shapeless; having no opposite, It is what opposites have in common; It
is
emptiness, It has no qualities and nothing can be said or thought
about It.
It is eternal reality, consciousness, total awareness.
Excellent rich ....
you could to describe who is God ....
Allah is the personal name of the One true God...
Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender...
“In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate.”
“Say (O Muhammad), He is Allah, the One God, the Self-Sufficient, who
has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not
anyone.” Quran
Some non-Muslims allege that God in Islam is a stern and cruel God who
demands to be obeyed fully and is
consequently, not loving and kind. Nothing could be farther from the
truth than this allegation. It is enough to know that
with the exception of one, each of the 114 chapters of the Quran
begins with the verse, “In the name of God
the Merciful
the Compassionate.” In one of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad may
the mercy and blessings of God be upon him we are told that:
“God is more loving and kind than a mother to her dear child.”
“God is the Creator of everything. He is the guardian over
everything. Unto Him belong the keys of the heavens and the
earth…” (Quran 39:62-63)
And God says:
“No creature is there crawling on the earth, but its provision rests
on God. He knows its lodging place and its repository...” (Quran
11:16)
If the Creator is Eternal and Everlasting, then His attributes must
also be eternal and everlasting. If this is so, then his attributes
are absolute. Can there be more than one Creator with such absolute
attributes? Can there be for example two absolutely powerful
Creators? A moment’s thought shows that this is not feasible.
The Quran summarizes this argument in the following verses:
“God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him:
for then each god would have taken of that which he created and some
of them would have risen up over others.” (Quran 23:91)
Also,
“And why, were there gods on earth and heaven other than God, they
(heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin.” (Quran 21:22)
What this means is that, if one submits knowingly to God without
reservations, and admits He is the only one worthy of your worship,
one must consequently worship Him. That is, knowing we owe Him
obedience means putting into practice what we acknowledge in our
hearts. God asks, rhetorically:
“Did you think that We had created you in without purpose, and that
you would not be brought back to Us?” (Quran 23:115)
He also states categorically:
”I did not create Mankind and Jinn except that they should worship
me.” (Quran 51:56)
Hence when faith enters a person’s heart it causes certain mental
states that result in certain actions. Taken together these mental
states and actions are the proof for the true faith....
Also........
“There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes
Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the
earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave?
He knows what lies before them, and what is after them, and they
comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His
footstool extends over the heavens and the earth. The preserving of
them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious.” (Quran
2:255)
imanway
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
"True God" is what I said above ..
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
So why was God put the religions ?
Open your mind and your heart ......why do you hate Islam ?
do you love God ?
imanway
Kinpa
Allah is not the true God however...
Kinpa
no, God wasnt bothered by such, the universe was made by Niranjan, or,
in your terms, Satan...the Absolute is of God, the dualistic, of
Niranjan...
tlastis
----------------------------------------
Imanway, it's in the interest of clarity to include the words you're
referring to from the last post(s), so I'll add them here....
>> > you still carrying to efforts of others against Islam
>>
>> > do not talk by tongue of others
>>
>> > There are things beautiful do not know it
>>
>> > may allah guide you
>>
>> > imanway
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>> We are all free to post articles we find to be relevant. You post many
>> words of others here.
>>
>> > may allah guide you
>>
>> No thank you.
>>
>> God of my understanding does not damn any person or group for
>> eternity. God of my understanding holds everyone to the same laws of
>> responsibility for their own actions, irregardless of religion.
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Thirteen Talks on Political >>Islam:http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/category/thirteen-talks-on-politic...
>> orhttp://tinyurl.com/ygjcqsa
>>
>> -------------------------------------
> - Show quoted text -
>So why was God put the religions ?
>Open your mind and your heart ......why do you hate Islam ?
>do you love God ?
>imanway
-----------------------------------------
"So why was God put the religions ?"
A complicated question...I'd probably say religions are by, of, for,
man, and like all things here have to do with going through many
experiences through many lifetimes. Soul is not identified by any one
of the religions it experiences while on earth. Soul is independent of
all religion. I believe in a hierarchy of ever greater consciousness,
and man interprets directly the waves as they come down, through mind
and the consciousness of each receiver as best that he can. But the
positive and negative forces are always at battle here, another
complicated issue to tackle. The purpose of the positive and negative
forces is always for unfoldment of Soul over eons of 'time'. We are
all knowing in Soul, but mind is a limited filter for manifestation of
spiritual realizations.
"Open your mind and your heart ......why do you hate Islam ?"
I don't hate Islam. I am detached, but believe in full disclosure.
When you show only half of the real Islam, others should attempt to
give the bigger picture. The whole story needs to be told when
someone proselytizes in such a limited way, otherwise it's a danger to
those of us who believe in preserving our own freedoms--that danger is
Sharia laws, with dhimmitude for those of other religions. Islam
cannot be separated from its ideological, governmental, all-
encompassing Sharia laws. Let's have full disclosure about loss of
freedoms of the people in any country in which Islam becomes a
majority; that could affect Europe in the not too distant future.
Let's not wake up one morning and say 'how could this have
happened?'. At least be informed, at least do not be afraid to speak
the truth. I don't believe in speaking with enmity, but with
truthfulness.
"do you love God ?"
My most important attention and goal is to better understand and
realize Spirit in life.
Back to understanding Sharia law:
Sharia
http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/sharia/
or
http://tinyurl.com/yfc3syk
Islam is a political system, a culture and a religion. The political
system has a legal code call Sharia law.
When most people think about Islam and danger to our civilization,
they think of Jihad. But there is something that is far more dangerous
than Jihad--Sharia law, Islamic law, but Sharia is not law in the
sense that we think of it.
Sharia not only covers the normal legal things that you might think of
- contracts, wills, criminal law, how people are to be punished, but
it also includes rules on how to run a family, have sex, worship,
pray, say hello and other ideas that we would call religious and
cultural. This is because Sharia law is based upon the Koran and the
Sunnah. The Sunna is found in the Sira (Mohammed's biography) and the
Hadith (his Traditions). Sharia law is a compilation of the directives
found in the Sunna and the Koran.
Sharia law is an attempt to form all societies to a society that
duplicates Arabia in the days of Mohammed. Sharia law can be seen as a
"paper Mohammed" devoted to forcing every person to be like an Arab of
Medina in 632 AD. Therefore, it goes into all the details of human
life that Mohammed dictated and includes the regulation of sex, food,
worship, travel and all legal details. Since Mohammed set rules for
the smallest detail of life, so does Sharia.
Why is Sharia more dangerous than Jihad?
What most people mean by jihad is the jihad of the sword, violence. We
can use police and military to protect ourselves against violence, but
there is a soft Jihad that comes from money, the pen and the tongue.
The soft jihad is devoted to us allowing Sharia law to function in our
society. Muslims want Sharia law because only under Sharia law is can
Muslims practice pure Islam.
Sharia dictates the form of government and its laws. Real Islam cannot
be practiced in America today because we have a Constitution. But our
Constitution is ignorant, man-made, garbage according to Sharia law.
The work that Jefferson, Adams, Benjamin Franklin and all of the other
founding fathers is an offense to Islam. The Declaration of
Independence and the Constitution are pure ignorance because they
violate Sharia law and Islam. Why?
Because Benjamin Franklin and all the other people who put together
our Constitution had no knowledge of any sort of all. How could they?
Because according to Islam and Sharia law the only real knowledge
comes from the Koran and the Sunnah. There's no actual knowledge
outside of those three books - Koran, Sira, Hadith. And therefore only
laws that are based upon Koran, Sira and Hadith can be true or real
because man made laws, our Constitution, all of our legal theory -
they're nothing. They're all a part of Jahiliya - ignorance.
Our legal system is based upon two principles-the Golden Rule and
critical thought. The Golden Rule is a unitary ethical system-all
people are to be treated the same. When we say do unto others, as you
would have them do unto you, we mean ALL others, without regard to
sex, race, or age. It is unitary because there is one rule, one basis
of ethics.
Islam is based instead on dualistic ethics-there is one set of rules
for Muslims and another set of rules for kafirs. In the same way there
is one set of laws for men and another set of laws for women.
Islam is not based upon critical thought, but authoritative thought.
Truth is found by looking it up in the only authoritative texts-Koran,
Sira and Hadith. This means that Sharia cannot change, since the
foundational texts cannot change. Sharia does not adapt, Muslims adapt
and therefore, we must adapt to Sharia.
The other basis of Islamic thought, ethics and legal code is
submission-all kafirs and their institutions must submit to Islamic
law. We used to have submissive laws in this country, since slavery is
based upon one race submitting to another. But that violates the
unitary ethics of the Golden Rule and so we ended slavery.
Islam sneers at our Constitution because it violates all of Sharia
law. Therefore as Islam comes to America, Sharia law must be
triumphant.
Enough about theory, let's take some of our freedoms and see how they
violate Islamic law. Pretend that you just woke up this morning and it
is a Sharia world. What is changed?
If you said that Mohammed made his living by taking other people's
money, you would go to jail. There is no freedom of speech in Islam.
To contradict Islam violates Sharia law. This is because Mohammed
would not tolerate being told he was wrong. When he conquered Mecca,
after he prayed, he issued death warrants against those intellectuals
and artists who had disagreed with him. Since Sharia is a paper
Mohammed, it dictates death to those who disagree with Mohammed.
Freedom of the press is like freedom of speech. Sharia law must
control the media and all artistic expression. We saw this in the
Danish Mohammed cartoons. The cartoons made fun of Islamic violence.
When Muslims saw them, they turned violent and burned cities and
killed people. The violence induced fear and all of the kafir
newspapers submitted to Islam and dropped their freedom of the press.
Sharia law prevailed over our constitution.
Sharia law forbids any and all artistic expression that is offensive
to Islam. This means that movies, TV, the net and all art must conform
to Islam in a Sharia world.
Equality of the sexes is part of our laws, but Sharia is very clear
that women and men are treated differently under the law. since more
than 95% of the references to women in the KSH; the woman is
subjugated to the man. Under Sharia, women must submit to men.
4:34 Allah has made men superior to women because men spend their
wealth to support them. Therefore, virtuous women are obedient, and
they are to guard their unseen parts as Allah has guarded them. As for
rebellious women, admonish them first, and then send them to a
separate bed, and then beat them.
So the Koran says that women can be beaten. Mohammed struck his wife,
and said that no one should ever ask a man why he beats his wife. So
Sharia lays out exactly how a wife is beaten. What precedes the
beating, where and how she is to be struck.
The submission of women does not stop with the beating, in Sharia law
women's testimony in court is half that of a man's testimony. Women
receive half as much as a man in an inheritance. Men have full right
of divorce, but not women. The Sharia goes on and on about how to
subjugate women.
Women are completed subjugated inside of Sharia law. Why should we
tolerate the Sharia's subjugation of women?
In America, all categories of people can carry weapons, but under
Sharia law, kafirs are forbidden to carry weapons; only Muslims may be
armed. This illustrates both dualism and subjugation. Dualism
separates kafir from Muslim. Submission means that the kafir must be
in a weaker position.
Under Sharia law an apostate, one who leaves Islam, can be killed.
Apostasy is the worst crime in Sharia. So much for freedom of
religion. Under Sharia law, no one can proselytize Muslims, but
Muslims can proselytize everybody. The principle of submission is very
clear here.
In every case there is dualism and subjugation. Dualism because there
are always two sets of laws and subjugation because the separated
class, kafir, women, apostates must submit to Islam.
Our freedoms will have to go because they are offensive to Allah.
Mohammed never allowed Freedom of thought; freedom of speech, freedom
of religion or freedom of the press and Sharia does not allow those
freedoms.
Our Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and bill of rights
are the result of critical thinking based upon the Golden Rule, which
is foreign to Sharia law. Sharia law is based upon one principle
authority-the Trilogy of the Koran, the Sira and Hadith. The only true
form of government and laws is Sharia. All of our civilization is
jahiliyah, ignorance.
Now the way it starts is this. Muslims say: our Sharia is so precious
to us; our laws are so beautiful to us that we want to be governed by
our laws. Now we, of course, are here today to follow your laws. But
in matters of family, because family in Islam is a very special, the
laws of Allah can only rule our families. So let us use our religion
and govern our own families in matters such as wills, estates,
divorce, domestic abuse, adoption - all of these things which are
nothing to you how we run our community because we are separate from
you. We want our own special laws to govern the special people, the
best of people.
Now this seems innocent enough to Dhimmis, to politicians, to
professors who know nothing of Islam. In the process of welcoming it,
we are submitting to it, since Islam wants to do things its way. And
what does it matter to us how a Muslim writes a will? Hmm, seems like
a small thing, nothing to worry about. So in the light of this, in
England for instance, there are many Sharia courts set up to rule over
Muslims. England has entered into legal dualism and has given up
sovereignty.
Sharia is the longest wedge in the world and the thin end of is in
place in England, but it is also already in place in America. Sharia
law is being implemented here in America.
In America in cities where Muslims congregate to create their own
empires, ghettos, Sharia law is already in place.
In certain areas of America today, a Muslim woman does not call the
police if she is beaten, because the Muslim community will turn
against her. A Muslim husband can beat his wife by Sharia law. The
Islamic community enforces Sharia in the areas it controls. This is
implementation of Sharia law in America.
Factories that employ many Muslims find that they must obey Sharia law
and set aside prayer rooms and give time off. Sharia law has started
in America. It starts with prayer, but it does not end with prayer. In
time, there will be no kafir supervisors in the company, because
Sharia does not allow a Muslim to be subordinate in anyway. It will
take a few centuries, but one day in our kafir civilization, when
Sharia law is in force 100%, the days of a kafir boss over a Muslim
will not even be a memory. This is the nature of Sharia law.
And added to the long list of Sharia horrors is the dhimmi. The Sharia
lays out all of the rules for the dhimmis-how they are to be taxed,
regulated, subjugated and humiliated. Of course, Sharia calls the non-
Muslims, kafirs-the people that Allah and Mohammed hated.
Our symbolism of justice is a woman holding scales in her hands and
she is blindfolded in order that the personalities and particulars of
whoever is in the court based upon our law of the Constitution. Our
justice attempts at being blind. Now we may not always succeed in that
but that is the ideal. But the ideal in Islam is not that justice if
blind. The first thing justice wants to know in Sharia is, is it a
kafir, a dhimmi, a woman, a man, a slave because justice for all these
people - man, woman, dhimmi, kafir, slave, is different. The civil
penalties are different. Different fines are levied. Criminal codes
are different. If a Muslim kills a kafir then he is not subject to the
same penalty as if he killed a Muslim.
Now, since the entire Sharia law is built upon submission and duality
that means that the entire purpose of Sharia law is subjugation. Why
should we tolerate any aspect of it?
Why should we allow any part of Sharia law including Sharia finance to
exist in our civilization? All of the Sharia is permeated by
subjugation and duality. Every single law inside of Sharia in some way
is about subjugation and duality. We should have zero tolerance for
Sharia law because every element of it violates every one of our
principals of how to be a human being.
We should not tolerate anything about Sharia law. Halal, food, who
cares? Footbaths in the bathrooms in America to comply with Sharia
law? We don't want to implement anything about Sharia law because
every single aspect of it is an affront to our whole way of being.
Sharia is designed to annihilate the host culture. Why should we allow
any part of a barbaric legal system to exist here?
Sharia law in every way is against everything that our civilization is
based upon in terms of law and legality, how we treat a fellow human
being, and the definition of justice. Sharia law destroys all of these
things.
So, we must learn what Sharia law is. We must resist it at every
level. We should detest Sharia law because it is inhuman. It is not a
sacred law; it is oppression, duality and subjugation. We must oppose
it at every turn.
-----------------------------------------
imanway
> 3 simple things to be aware of, and learn how to practice with an open
> heart.
>
>
> Byron Katie in Israel 2007 - The Arab/Jew conflicthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48jk1cs077I
>
> Byron Katie in Israel 2007- Fear of Terror Attack-Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o3ve8wewUU
>
> =======================================
>
> People either help to uplift and become more aware about Life, or they make
> matters worse by feeding the Negativity and the influence of Niranjan.
>
> It's a choice.
good ... Byron Katie had a specific philosophy to solve problems
thanks sean
imanway
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Tribes of Gog and Magog are referred to in a couple of places in
the Quran. In one place in the Quran, God makes it clear that these
tribes existed during the time of Dhul-Qarnain. God says:
“Then he [Dhul-Qarnain] followed (another) way, until, when he reached
between two mountains, he found, before them a people who scarcely
understood a word. They said, ‘O Dhul-Qarnain! Verily! Gog and
Magog are doing great mischief in the land. Shall we then pay you a
tribute in order that you might erect a barrier between us and them?’
He said, ‘That which my Lord had established me is better (than your
tribute). So help me with strength (of men), I will erect between you
and them a barrier. Give me pieces (blocks) of iron,’ then, when he
had filled up the gap between the two mountain-cliffs, he said,
‘Blow,’ till when he had made it (red as) fire, he said, ‘Bring me
molten copper to pour over it.’ So they [Gog and Magog] were made
powerless to scale it or dig through it. [Dhul-Qarnain] said, ‘This
is a mercy from my Lord, but when the Promise of my Lord comes, He
shall level it down to the ground. And the Promise of my Lord is ever
true.’ And on that Day [i.e., the day Gog and Magog will come out],
We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another, and the
Trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.” (Quran
18:92-99)
Elsewhere in the Quran, God also speaks about them as a sign of the
end of times. God says:
“Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose (from their barrier), and
they swiftly swarm from every mound. And the true promise (Day of
Resurrection) shall draw near (of fulfillment). Then (when mankind is
resurrected from their graves), you shall see the eyes of the
disbelievers fixedly stare in horror. (They will say), ‘Woe to us!
We were indeed heedless of this; nay, but we were wrongdoers.’” (Quran
21:96-97)
The Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, gave the
following description for the ruthlessness of these tribes when they
are finally released upon the world:
“Gog and Magog would walk until they would reach the mountain of al-
Khamar and it is a mountain of Bait-ul-Maqdis and they would say, ‘We
have killed those who are upon the earth. Let us now kill those who
are in the sky’ and they would throw their arrows towards the sky and
the arrows would return to them besmeared with blood.”
Ahmad recorded the following hadeeth in his Musnad:
“Every day, Gog and Magog are trying to dig a way out through the
barrier. When they begin to see sunlight through it, the one who is
in charge of them says, ‘Go back; you can carry on digging tomorrow,’
and when they come back, the barrier is stronger than it was before.
This will continue until their time comes and God wishes to send them
forth. They will dig until they begin to see sunlight, then the one
who is in charge of them will say, “Go back; you can carry on digging
tomorrow, God willing.” In this case he will make an exception by
saying, ‘God willing,’ thus relating the matter to the Will of God.
They will return on the following day, and find the hole as they left
it. They will carry on digging and come out against the people. They
will drink all the water, and the people will entrench themselves in
their fortresses. Gog and Magog will fire their arrows into the sky,
and they will fall back to earth with something like blood on them.
Gog and Magog will say, ‘We have defeated the people of earth, and
overcome the people of heaven.’ Then God will send a kind of worm in
the napes of their necks, and they will be killed by it. By Him (God)
in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, the beasts of the earth will
become fat.” (As-Suyuti)
In the lengthy hadeeth from which two portions have been quoted above,
the Prophet further described the relationship between Jesus and the
tribes of Gog and Magog. After Jesus will kill the false messiah, the
Prophet continued speaking about what would occur:
“Then a people whom God had protected would come to Jesus, son of
Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their
ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that God would
reveal to Jesus these words, ‘I have brought forth from amongst My
servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you
take these people safely to the Mount of Toor, and then God would send
Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first
of them would pass the lake of Tiberius and drink out of it. And when
the last of them would pass, he would say, ‘There was once water
there.’ Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at
Toor, and they would be so hard pressed) that the head of the ox would
be dearer to them than one hundred dinars (old currency) and God’s
Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate to God, Who would
send to them insects (which would attack the necks of the Gog and
Magog) and in the morning they would perish like one single person.
God’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the
earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single
span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. God’s
Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech God, Who
would send birds whose necks would be like those of Bactrian camels
and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then
God would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels’
hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could
appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth
its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there
would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be
able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin, and a milch cow
would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it.
And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that
the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep
would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink
out of that. At that time God would send a pleasant wind which would
soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of
every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit
adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come upon them.”
In another important hadeeth from Saheeh Muslim, the Prophet spoke
about the future coming of Gog and Magog and, at the same time, stated
a very important lesson that all should reflect upon. This lesson has
to do with the importance of not allowing evil to be prevalent in
society. In this narration, the Prophet said,
“There is no god but God! There is a destruction in store for Arabia
because of turmoil which is at hand, the barrier of Gog and Magog has
opened so much.”
And Sufyan [the subnarrator] made a sign of ten with the help of his
hand (in order to indicate the width of the gap) and I [Zainab, the
Prophet’s wife] said,
“God’s Messenger, would we be perished in spite of the fact that there
would be good people amongst us?” He replied, “Of course, but only
when the evil predominates.”
(Incidentally, there is a great deal of speculation concerning who
exactly these tribes are. However, due to space limitations, the
discussion here is limited to what is known directly from the texts of
the Quran and Sunnah. As such, these are the tribes of Gog and Magog
and, with respect to identifying them, very little more can be said,
although a couple of hadeeth do give further information concerning
their physical characteristics.)
Sean
"imanway" <imanw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13cbe8ad-6f27-4527...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
thanks sean
======
You are always welcome Miss Imanway --- to me you come across as far more
open-minded and intelligent than some of the ECKists around here! You appear
to not miss quality ideas and good attitudes.
For your info .. Byron Katie started doing the *work* to help others after
her time with Eckhart Tolle. He is a author/teacher his first book being The
Power of Now ... it doesn't matter what one;s religious path may be, he
offers some very good insights about life and being human, and some
practical ideas to gain personal freedom and insights.
"World Peace - is that for you - at an inner personal level?"
http://www.eckharttolle.com/home/
Take care :-)
Sean
Eckhart Tolle website in Arabic
??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? Imanway --- ?? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ?????
????? ?? ??? ECKists ????? ???! ???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ???????? ?????
????. ?????????.. ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? * * ??????? ??????? ??? ?????
?? ??????? ?????. ??? ???? / ???? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????... ?? ???
?? ?? ????? ? ? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???
?? ?????? ?????? ? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ????????.
"?????? ??????? -- ?? ?? ???? -- ??? ??????? ?????? ?????????"
http://www.eckharttolle.com/home/ ???? ??????? :-)
Sean
"Kinpa" <tsha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e8bf717e-20ec-4ac3...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
==========
I am certain that there was a better way to present your personal views
about creation Kinpa, in a way that would not necessarily be so confronting
that will create mental blocks due the choice of words being used for one
who follows from Birth a teaching of the Book.
such as, the way I understand this -- or the teachings i follow say -- or my
feeelings about this are === as opposed to you presenting it as if you are
speaking for God and knows beyond doubt what was was/is bothered about or
not. See what I mean? :)
Sean
=======
Allah is a TRUE Name for God .... go ask Nanak or Kabir or Rebazar Tarzs -
whatever works for you. :)
Sophistry doesn't ever win one friends -- there is the words and then there
is the intent. Paul T and others have called it semantics - you have no idea
what Imanway's inner experiences have shown her - do you?
Arguing about words and labels is a free choice however. There is no Hindu,
there is no Muslim, and there is no ECKist in the eye of God -- no matter
what label is used and the unfortunate connections that the mind leaps to.
It is my understanding that Paul T therefore went out of his way to create a
new nomenclature for ECKANKAR in an endeavour to reduce the amount of mind
blockages that arise when one read his works. The purpose was to side-satep
and get to the juice of the matter.
I do feel that in the broader world of Eckankar protelising and self-defence
mechanism that this wisdom has been lost in the body politic of ECKists,
especially online, but that is simply my own perosnal feelings on the matter
and not a judgement upon anyone in particular. let's call it a teaching
moment shall we? <smile>
Or I could be direct and say - hey, give the young lady a break will you?
She is about 21 years of age, lives In Ryihad saudi Arabia and has been
brought up in a religion and culture totally different than America, and
certainly far diffferent than the modern day teachings of ECK. How about
cutting her a bit of slack here?
Is that being too hard on you? If so, I do apologise sincerely.
If people her are incapable of workin gout that Mohammed himself had some
pretty profound inner expereinces of the ECK, then really I don't know what
I am going to to with you malcontents. Christians do not really comprehend
the teachings of Jesus, and Jews don't comprehend the teachings of Abraham
either you know.
Thanks sean
Ken
Well said Sean. Amazingly enough I actually agree with what you say
here. Must be another sign of the impending apocalypse.
--
Ken
Sean
"Ken" <K...@NowHere.net> wrote in message
news:QbmdnZ2GWIlAVpTW...@supernews.com...
Well, you could have been a man and said the exact same thing anytime in the
last several months, but especially so to jasmyn, to tlastis, to Rich.
But you didn't. Your agreement now means nothing to me Ken.
Kinpa
> "Kinpa" <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Allah is as true a name as any for God, but the truest of realities
is, that the Godhead has no name whatsoever...that makes us both
right, simultaneously, however, that comes back again to what one
means by what they say at a given time, i suppose that's my bad, i
wasnt clear, and i have no trouble admitting that, and btw, the three
individuals you mentioned dont disagree in the least with what ive
said here ;o) we can literally use ANY name our mind finds comfort
with,but in doing so, we have already lost sight of the Absolute by
naming It...even Sugmad isnt God's name, it's OURS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sophistry doesn't ever win one friends -- there is the words and then there
> is the intent. Paul T and others have called it semantics - you have no idea
> what Imanway's inner experiences have shown her - do you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
actually, ive a better idea than you might think, but that's because
she has shown it clearly of her own free will, and i happen to see
far, i enjoy observing, it's literally the best of teachers...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Arguing about words and labels is a free choice however. There is no Hindu,
> there is no Muslim, and there is no ECKist in the eye of God -- no matter
> what label is used and the unfortunate connections that the mind leaps to.
>
> It is my understanding that Paul T therefore went out of his way to create a
> new nomenclature for ECKANKAR in an endeavour to reduce the amount of mind
> blockages that arise when one read his works. The purpose was to side-satep
> and get to the juice of the matter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, but it's still inevitable, and he knew/knows that fact...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do feel that in the broader world of Eckankar protelising and self-defence
> mechanism that this wisdom has been lost in the body politic of ECKists,
> especially online, but that is simply my own perosnal feelings on the matter
> and not a judgement upon anyone in particular. let's call it a teaching
> moment shall we? <smile>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that can only be, if it is also a learning moment :o)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Or I could be direct and say - hey, give the young lady a break will you?
> She is about 21 years of age, lives In Ryihad saudi Arabia and has been
> brought up in a religion and culture totally different than America, and
> certainly far diffferent than the modern day teachings of ECK. How about
> cutting her a bit of slack here?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
perhaps, but still, it is out of any of our control, she will only get
that which she gives...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Is that being too hard on you? If so, I do apologise sincerely.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
not at all, ego be damned!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If people her are incapable of workin gout that Mohammed himself had some
> pretty profound inner expereinces of the ECK, then really I don't know what
> I am going to to with you malcontents. Christians do not really comprehend
> the teachings of Jesus, and Jews don't comprehend the teachings of Abraham
> either you know.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the truth is, that not many comprehend the teachings of anyone, but
that's that damned ego yet again, it likes to stand in the way,
doesn't it?too much for my liking...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks sean
-------------------------------------------------
no problem whatsoever :oD
Kinpa
> "Kinpa" <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
hey now, take it easy there Mr. i have yet to ever speak for
God,Eckankar, or anyone else, however, what i spoke of is easily found
round the world, it's hardly new, even if the concepts are new to
imanway, in fact, she can read the works of Rumi and find the same
truths....cutting her a break loses it's meaning within her own words,
as she has yet to cut anyone or thing here a break, and as i said
before, she gets what she gives,i asked her once if she was trying to
convert anyone, what i took from her answer was a big yes... she gets
spoken to on HER own terms, she chose it, and im fine with that, why
shouldnt i be?im not interested in converting her, or proving that my
POV is correct and hers wrong, but neither will i sit and agree,
because i dont agree, i perceive many distinctions within the answer
to her question, and simply put, she DID ask....i spoke of things that
truly cannot be spoken of properly, so if i went with the short answer
to the question and left some of it out, you'll have to forgive me for
that...
Sean
-------------------------------------------------
no problem whatsoever :oD
---------------
Ok Kinpa, if this is the way you see it, let it be so. I have nothing to
add. thanks very much for the reply.
On another note, I have found a few other good very old books online that
are available, and I'll share them soon. This digital copying program of
public domain books has gathered some pace with more and more turning up all
the time. Tis an amazing time at present.
thx sean
Sean
Kinpa:
hey now, take it easy there Mr. i have yet to ever speak for
God,Eckankar, or anyone else, however, what i spoke of is easily found
round the world, it's hardly new, even if the concepts are new to
imanway, in fact, she can read the works of Rumi and find the same
truths....
------------------
Mr:
I used the phraseology which included *presenting it as if* , in relation to
your phrasing of ... *no, God wasnt bothered* .. and within the context of
Imanways space/understanding whilst taking into consideration *one can only
speak to another within the limits of that others perception...*
Now if Niranjan is the dualistic God ... and if you're suggesting that Allah
is NOT the Absolute God-SUGMAD- The Alone- etcetc, but instead a lower
dualistic God ... then you are saying to Imanway indirectly that she is
following satan , which has a distinct context within Imanways perception,
and will undoubtedly create a reaction which is not very well managed on an
onlione newsgroup - face to face is another matter entirley, and also where
an individual has alrady been forced to defend her entire religion and
everyone of the 1.3 billlion souls who say they follow it.
Is that any clearer, for I hope so, I just didn;t think I needed to be that
specific, so sorry about that.
=======
Kinpa::
cutting her a break loses it's meaning within her own words,
as she has yet to cut anyone or thing here a break, and as i said
before, she gets what she gives,i asked her once if she was trying to
convert anyone, what i took from her answer was a big yes... she gets
spoken to on HER own terms, she chose it, and im fine with that, why
shouldnt i be? im not interested in converting her, or proving that my
POV is correct and hers wrong, but neither will i sit and agree,
because i dont agree, i perceive many distinctions within the answer
to her question, and simply put, she DID ask....i spoke of things that
truly cannot be spoken of properly, so if i went with the short answer
to the question and left some of it out, you'll have to forgive me for
that...
--------------------
Sean:
You don't need my forgiveness, that's not the point of my sharing. I have a
completely different perception of Imanway, which includes the fact that I
do not have an issue with her trying to convert anyone - it's a free world,
and it's a free open public adult newsgroup that anyone can post to.
In my dealings with her I have found her most respectful, open honest and
forth-right and genuine. She speaks her truth, we have had discussons back
and forth, shared our diffeent points of views and beliefs etc, I offered an
explanation of my understanding of Eckankar for HER benefit, not mine, and
I have no issues with her, and she has no issues with me ..... [ that I know
of ]
Given the crap that has been dumped on her repeatedly about things she is
absolutely NOT responsible for, my feelings are that she has handled herself
with a great degree of dignity, intelligence, strength, sincerity and
authenticity.... plus some nice healthy doses of everyday humanity and some
nicely positioned CAPS comments too boot.
That she is Arabian, and doing what she is doing with English as a second
language, that she is a young woman around the same age as my youngest
daughter, she actually impresses me a lot with her maturity and
self-confidence, not to mention the courage to take on the task she is
committed to.
Of course, others see it differently, and well we all have our opinions.
besides that though, each person is responsible for how they speak to her,
and approach the subject under discussion, and what unrelated subjects they
DUMP into the discussion which she raised. her restraint is an inspiration,
or at least it should be imho.
But, like I said, people see things differently, don't they? <smile>
Cheers Sean
tlastis
>
> - Show quoted text -
I thought you expressed yourself very well, Kinpa.
One might take a step back and look at the *name of this newsgroup*?
We don't have to change our terms and way of speaking about god the
devil or anything else, unless we use our personal choice to do so.
No one need be encouraged to come in here and all of a sudden we must
change our words and terms because of how they were raised. Or mind
our ways of speaking in consideration of their teaching. No. It's
different when we go out into the public and not under the banner of
the name of this newsgroup.
WE are being proselytized with much BS here. I say good for you,
Kinpa, you stand up for what you believe.
Ken
I didn't agree with everything you said in the last several months. But
I did agree with this. But hey, if you're going to be a prick about
everything forget it. Up yours.
--
Ken
Sean
"Ken" <K...@NowHere.net> wrote in message
>
>
> I didn't agree with everything you said in the last several months. But I
> did agree with this. But hey, if you're going to be a prick about
> everything forget it. Up yours.
>
> --
> Ken
>
Well that's perfectly fine with me Ken, for you are entitled to your
opinions, and choices, and the consequences thereof.
I have never asked for you agreement on anything.
I have never expected your agreement on anything.
I have never wanted your agreement on anything.
and more than that, I do not need it.
This desire for, and the repeated mentioning of the importance that
agreement appears to mean to you, is nothing to do with me as it is not my
responsibilty at all.
Along the way, what has happened here is that I have been repeatedly:
- told what I think when I don't think that
- told what my problems are when they aren't actually my problem
- told I have it wrong, when actually what i said was and still is true
- ignored when I post multiple examples that what i said is actually correct
- told that I should respect the opinions of religious / racist /
fundamentalist bigots
- told that I have strong opinions on subjects when I don't
- told that I am attached when i aren't
- told that all opinions are equal, one is not better than another
- even when those opinions are based on known lies
- had to read an almost neverending list
- told I couldn't possibly understand because I don't know about xyz
- told what I said when I didn't say it at all
- told what I meant when that isn't what I meant at all
- told to up my meds
- told my posts are too long to read
- told this is a discussion group when it is actually a newsgroup
- had words ENDLESSLY put into my mouth that I don't actually think, and
never said
- accused of being anti-american
- accused of being anti-semetic
- accused of not taking my medication
- accused of having mental problems
- disregarded
- disrespected
- put down
- insulted
- spoken about and laughed at on the side as if I wasn't here
- never been asked for a clarification
- never been asked what I mean by saying xyz
- never been asked if I was OK
- never been asked why I felt so strongly about the Gaza War
- never been spoken to in a trully friendly manner
- repeatedly had the core issue I was speaking to and quoted texts totally
ignored
- repeatedly having to deal with inconsequential and irrelevant side issues
instead
- whilst you complain about a broken twig on a tree whilst ignoring the
entire forest
And all of the above delivered with amazing consistency by you Ken [and
others]
At one time or another, in one form or another, I have mentioned all the
above to you directly and brought up related issues such as the importance
of *empathy* & *projection* & that you do NOT understand me to any
reasonable degree, but with no effect whatsoever.
I have asked you to stop doing xyz several times, I have asked you to just
ignore my posts all to no avail - you have just kept at it like a
woodpecker. I have told you that I have no interest in your opinion about my
opinions or style or purpose or intent, and yet still you persist despite me
ignoring you when I can, and giving you all the space you wish.
you say that I am the prick.
Well OK, yes, this is indeed True. I agree totally Ken, I can be and often
am a prick, and a lot more besides that. I can also be bullheaded, upset,
irrational, sad, happy, arrogant and imposing. I can be irritating and
annoying too. I can get angry and pissed off, use bad language and use CAPS
too much. I can over-react, get things wrong, make stupid assumptions, be
way too intense, and not be tolerant or patient enough too. There is indeed
much about me that I could improve, and sometimes being a right prick is one
of them.
So ------ OMG what on earth are you going to do about all of these serious
problems and hangups I have?
The way I see it is this -- You owe me nothing and I owe you nothing ... so
let's then call it all even, and move on, shall we?
Well you can do whatever you want to do, because I moved on months ago but
apparently you were not quite ready. Now perhaps we're all square and can
both go and do something we love to do without annoying the crap out of each
other.
Me I like to write long informative off-the-beaten-track posts, and you like
to write short sharp narky spoiler posts. Hey, doesn't bother me what you
want to do with your life, so long as you can get over trying to control
mine, manipulate/twist what I think or say, and stop invading my space.
As I said a while ago, imo we have nothing in common in regards values etc.
I get that, you see it differently, and I got it. I hear you, I understand,
and yes I really I got it.
Now, of course you are entitled to comment on any issue or point you choose
to address, and in any way you wish to do that. This is your freedom and
right absolutely, but there are consequences for all our choices and
behaviour - sometimes most unexpected ones that we had not considered.
There are very good reasons why I responded to your ingratiating agreement
to what I said to Kinpa. It is not my responsiblity to explain it to you so
that you can understand it -- that's your responsibilty, but I imagine that
for some it is as clear as day.
Sean
Take an even bigger step back and look at the name of this Planet!
There is room enough for all ..... in fact Cyber Space has no limits, unlike
earth.
If you can't handle being spoke to about islam by Imanway, and if you can't
put her on block sender or ignore her, then take a valium and have a lay
down instead.
Alternatively just take repsonsibilty for what YOU read, how YOU react, and
what YOU post and stop pretending YOU don't have an effect on others, and
BSing your way into believing you have some rights on a PUBLIC NEWSGROUP
that don't actually exist in reality.
Doug Marman posts on to non-eckankar discussion lists
Jasmyn Day [ you know her right? ] she posts on Radha Saomi discussion lists
pushing the Eckankar version of life and history telling other people that
they need to read Doug's book, and pointing out where they all so wrong.
So do feel free to go check your Arahat Training guides about being
flexible in choosing what words to use and to alwsays consider other peoples
SOC.
Everything is exactly as it is supposed to be ........... the ECK has
offered an opportunity to build bridges, as opposed to blowing them up -- to
show a person in the Middle East that Eckankar as a teaching is not
something to be feared, that is a teaching that respects the FREEDOM of the
indivdual to choose their own path to God, that it has some deep roots
within islamic history and values this tradition from the past, that it is a
teaching that openly offers support and gudiance and membership to people
EVEN if they choose to remain in their current Religion, be it islam, or
judaism, or anything, and more than anything that Eckankar is NOT something
that needs to be banned in places like Iran or China because it would never
be a threat to the political order unlike many others.
But no .. let's do the complete opposite and see Imanway leave here
badmouthing Eckanakr all over Islam because YOU can't handle it, or give her
ANY basic human respect and courtesy as a visitor to this place with the
NAME of this newgroup plastered on every post.
Good job tlastis ... at being so committed to creating another enemy to
further entrench your self-righteousness.
"tlastis" <tla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f665483c-3420-423d...@t18g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 23, 2:24?am, Kinpa <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ?hey now, take it easy there Mr. i have yet to ever speak for
Ken
Some people have the unique ability to suck the joy right out of life
for those around them. You have become that kind of person for me.
I do believe in dialogue and I have learned things in some of our
discussions. I genuinely enjoy sharing ideas with people who see things
differently and who have opposing opinions. But your excessive
negativity and near complete lack of common courtesy and consideration
in replies to posts where I've disagreed with you is no longer something
that I want in my life. I won't be reading most of your posts from here
on out.
--
Ken
Rich
> "True God" is what I said above ..
Yes, as I understand your descriptions of Him, an egocentric dualistic God.
Rich
> Or rather is ONE ( One person)
Yes, Allah is a personification of God that can be understood, has
qualities, and can be regarded in terms of personality. Even though I was
writing about a more expansive perspective, I understand and it is OK with
me what you believe.
>> It is not a who, male or female, or an individual Being.
> The mind can grasp poetic images like the OCEAN OF LOVE AND MERCY,
> all
> WISDOM, LOVE, POWER. Yet if you can think of It, that is not It. It
> is
> beyond human understanding. It's essence is formless, all-embracing,
> impersonal; It is neither old nor new, great nor small, shaped nor
> shapeless; having no opposite, It is what opposites have in common; It
> is
> emptiness, It has no qualities and nothing can be said or thought
> about It.
> It is eternal reality, consciousness, total awareness.
>
>
> Excellent rich ....
>
> you could to describe who is God ....
>
> Allah is the personal name of the One true God...
>
> Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender...
>
> �In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate.�
>
> �Say (O Muhammad), He is Allah, the One God, the Self-Sufficient, who
> has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not
> anyone.� Quran
No gender? but still referred to as a "He" and "Him"... For me "It" is less
limited, a non-gender. While a seemingly small difference, to me the subtle
implications are very important.
> Some non-Muslims allege that God in Islam is a stern and cruel God who
> demands to be obeyed fully and is
>
> consequently, not loving and kind. Nothing could be farther from the
> truth than this allegation.
As a non-Muslim I never though of Allah as not also loving and kind. As I
have written to you before, He is dualistic in nature. The God I keep
writing to you about does not have opposite characteristics such as,
sometimes cruel and sometimes loving.
And yet, just like the Jewish and Christian God, He would torture people in
hell for eternity... His love is conditional and threfore his love is not
everlasting. It stops for some Souls. There is the big difference between
Allah's version and what I perceive about Divine Love.
Sean
"Ken" <K...@NowHere.net> wrote in message
>
> Some people have the unique ability to suck the joy right out of life for
> those around them. You have become that kind of person for me.
>
> I do believe in dialogue and I have learned things in some of our
> discussions. I genuinely enjoy sharing ideas with people who see things
> differently and who have opposing opinions. But your excessive negativity
> and near complete lack of common courtesy and consideration in replies to
> posts where I've disagreed with you is no longer something that I want in
> my life. I won't be reading most of your posts from here on out.
>
> --
> Ken
>
No problems at all .... there are indeed those that are almost like psychic
vampires in this world so you may indeed have the last word on this matter.
Number Harmonics
"Rich" <dead...@inorbit.com> wrote in message
news:he8j0...@news5.newsguy.com...
> Kinpa wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 2:10 pm, imanway <imanway6...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>> I think whatever gets one closer to God, living a life based in
>>>>>> love, is OK
>>>>> with me.
>>>
>>>>> YES ...Message of our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him calling
>>>>> for love and peace even with the Jews and Christians
>>>
>>>>> OK it is gets one closer to God...........who is one closer to God
>>>>> in your concept ?
>>>
>>>> I do not presume to be able to make such a judgment because it
>>>> cannot be based on outward appearance alone. Being closer to God
>>>> has little to do with any one religion. Belief systems with their
>>>> dogma, ritualistic practices and philosophies do help some people.
>>>> Yet each Soul is unique. How can one judges Soul? Perhaps a person
>>>> who perceives a direct perception with non-dualistic consciousness
>>>> is close?
>>>
>>>> Here is what Sri Harold Klemp has said:
>>>
>>>> "People don�t realize that God has provided all these
>>>> different religions for a specific purpose: to fit all the
>>>> different levels of consciousness that exist on earth.
>>>> Somebody who is a good Lutheran may have an entirely
>>>> different set of ethics from someone who practices Islam.
>>>
>>>> "People who are in the top 5 percent of any religious group -
>>>> if you are going to grade them spiritually or closeness to
>>>> God - have very much in common. They are generally people
>>>> who are filled with love. They are people who know the two
>>>> laws that I told you about.[Maybury�s Laws]http://bit.ly/FdBwe
>>>
>>>> "They understand that just obeying laws, following the letter
>>>> of the law, is not living in the heart of God.
>>>
>>>> "The point of any religion should be this: how to open your
>>>> heart to love. Because God is love. And if you can achieve
>>>> that through the religion you are in now, the religion is
>>>> right for you. But if your heart is not opening to love,
>>>> then the religion is not right for you. Or, let�s say it
>>>> another way: you�re not right for that religion."
>>>
>>>> - Harold Klemp from The Slow Burning Love of God
>
>
>>> I think that the love of God is in religions especially religion
>>> which is God's choice
>>>
>>> Do you think that God loves to religion more than the other?
>>
>> God has no care whatsoever for religion...
>
> Even more I'd suggest It has no care, preferences, or references at All.
>
> ` o
> |
> ~/|
> _/ |\
> / | \
> -/ | \
> _/____|___\_
> Rich~~~~(__________/~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~
>
Hell, I don't care at all!
Just call me GOD
Or if you don't care abouit the English Language, call me a dog! (Some
already do!! lol )
Woof woof
M
>
>
Kinpa
they use tentacles...ive met a great many of them..
Sean
=====
Yes they do use tentacles, and so have I met a great many of them and at
times have lived with a few. More often than not, those tentacles attach
themselves to the lower chakras and can be physically felt in the mid to
lower gut region.
Which is another very good reason why "knowledge is power" and why the
works of PT [ and many others ] is a gift to the individual because it then
has the *potential* for the individual to also gain direct personal
expereince of how to recognise them more easily and then how to extricate
oneself from their warm embrace.
I think the writings about Jesus put it this way .. by their fruits though
shalt know them ... the issue is not one to be taken lightly, nor dismissed
out of hand, for there are some who enter the meeting hall whilst
similaneously showing their ECK ID card.
Sean
"Sean" <he...@home.net> wrote in message
news:4b0b2b32$0$26263$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
As Sri Harold is quoted in the Calendar for the 23rd Nov -- "Love is the
shortcut to heaven."
He did not say that the love of power is the shortcut to heaven.
I think there are many who have missed Sri Harold's reports and guidance [
my understanding at least fwiw ] that there is a very good reason why there
has had to be a slow down in the flow of and the unfoldment of the ECK
teachings within the group, [ and generally in the world due to the
continued move towards war ] and that previous plans and goals of Eckankar
have needed to be adjusted and in some respects abandoned for a time.
An outer manifestation of this, is imho, the fact that Sydney a city of 4.5
million no longer has an ECK Centre, the first time since the 70's [?] I
believe. For some this came as a shock and a disappointment, and yet to
others they saw it coming for along time, sometimes because they have seen
it occur in other times/places, and so more fully recognise the more
important intention to protect those still as yet unable to protect
themselves spiritually.
[ all imo, and only based upon my own imperfect direct personal experiences
and knowledge - don't believe me at all, but instead trust in your own
instincts and inner master]
Today's quote is :
"People who give to others find that they have better health and enjoy a
happier life than those who have yet to learn the blessings of giving of
themselves."
THX Sean
Kinpa
> "Kinpa" <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
not good to speak of the darkwalkers, that draws them...even they have
a purpose, though it is often hard to see what that might be...
Kinpa
> "Sean" <h...@home.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4b0b2b32$0$26263$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Kinpa" <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
yeah, honestly, i wouldnt be surprised if the next LEM drops the whole
thing and go back to the old way of teaching, in smaller groups, by
word of mouth, too many misuse the teachings and that is a shame, but,
to each their own i suppose...Love is as close to a shortcut as can be
gotten, it is also the sword that cuts the tentacles and renders them
useless...
Jasmyn
>
> - Show quoted text -
--------------------------------------------
> Doug Marman posts on to non-eckankar discussion lists
>
> Jasmyn Day [ you know her right? ] she posts on Radha Saomi discussion lists
> pushing the Eckankar version of life and history telling other people that
> they need to read Doug's book, and pointing out where they all so wrong.
I don't think Doug posts about Eckankar anywhere, as in
proselytizing.
I've let things slide you've said about me, as I choose not to listen
or respond to you.
But will set the record straight on this....
I DO NOT post on Radha Soami.
I DID one time post there for some months only.
The only reason was because Doug's book The Whole Truth was just out
and was being discussed by THEM, and he was trying to set the record
straight as they were challenging him about aspects of it and Paul's
life. I agreed with what he was saying. Period. End of Eckankar or
Paul Twitchell discussion by me there when that discussion/thread
ended. I NEVER discussed Eckankar or Paul Twitchell in there after
that EVER, not once.
I would never go to any religion's newsgroup and post about Eckankar,
as in proselytizing. I respect their space for talking about their own
religion. So I never did that after that discussion ended.
I did stay some months there after that thread was over, being drawn
into some discussions they were having mainly politics because it was
interesting. Then when the election season was over, I was out of
there. Not that I need explain anything to you.
---------------------------------------------
Sean
"Jasmyn" <Jasm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ea95e729-ea0b-42b2...@p33g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 23, 1:00?pm, "Sean" <h...@home.net> wrote:
> Take an even bigger step back and look at the name of this Planet!
>
> There is room enough for all ..... in fact Cyber Space has no limits,
> unlike
> earth.
>
> If you can't handle being spoke to about islam by Imanway, and if you
> can't
> put her on block sender or ignore her, then take a valium and have a lay
> down instead.
>
> Alternatively just take repsonsibilty for what YOU read, how YOU react,
> and
> what YOU post and stop pretending YOU don't have an effect on others, and
> BSing your way into believing you have some rights on a PUBLIC NEWSGROUP
> that don't actually exist in reality.
>
> Doug Marman posts on to non-eckankar discussion lists
>
> Jasmyn Day [ you know her right? ] she posts on Radha Saomi discussion
> lists
> pushing the Eckankar version of life and history telling other people that
> they need to read Doug's book, and pointing out where they all so wrong.
>
> our ways of speaking in consideration of their teaching. ?No. It's
--------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Oh really? How nice!
==================
So, please do let me know if I have this clear and correct here Jasmyn, you
never ever posted anything to the Radha Soami, except when you were, um,
actually posting there.
The DSM-IV has several sections where this type of behaviour is listed in
black and white. I know because I have read it, well, except when I wasn't
reading it, that is.
I am not sure why, but I am immediately reminded of a facsinating American
character called Jefferson Randolph "Soapy" Smith II
Please do give me advance warning in case I forget to "Don't shoot!"
Jasmyn
> "Jasmyn" <Jasmyn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
---------------------------------------------
I think you know precisely what I was saying.
I responded in agreement to Doug Marman's perspective of the life of
Paul Twitchell in The Whole Truth (I was the only one who did at that
time, where was everyone else?), when Doug was overwhelmed by the
entire group at Radhasoami ripping to shreds his book about Paul
Twitchell. It's been a regular sport in there to thrash Paul Twitchell
in every regard to his life because David Lane brought it to their
group through the years. So when Doug's book came out and some read
it, they ripped into it.
I never, not once, spoke of or mentioned the words Eckankar or Paul
Twitchell in there either before or after the short time of that book
discussion/thread.
I don't go to other religion's newsgroups and proselytize Eckankar.
Got it?
------------------------------------------
Rich
>>
>
> Hell, I don't care at all!
JUST as I suspected...
> Just call me GOD
"Youuu dirty rat"(Cagney;)
> Or if you don't care abouit the English Language, call me a dog! (Some
> already do!! lol )
>
> Woof woof
SIT!
imanway
> On Nov 22, 5:53 am, imanway <imanway6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 20, 11:55 pm, Kinpa <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > |
> > > > > ~/|
> > > > > _/ |\
> > > > > / | \
> > > > > -/ | \
> > > > > _/____|___\_
>
> > > > OK ....you meant that there are tow god ...or three or more from the
> > > > Lord
>
> > > > was collaborated in the creation of these
>
> > > > who tooks the largest share in your opinion ....god 1 .....god 2 ....
> > > > god 3 ....etc
>
> > > > imanway
>
> > > the TRUE God takes NO share, each share is part of God...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > OK ...The whole universe was made by God .... sky .... earth ....
>
> > All the details of the universe
>
> no, God wasnt bothered by such, the universe was made by Niranjan, or,
> in your terms, Satan...the Absolute is of God, the dualistic, of
>
> - Show quoted text -
kinpa ......... not true never ...
do you know who is satan ? I am sure you do not know !
Satan is your enemy ......satan is " jinn" ....who ?
was start from the creation of Adam peace be upon him
Allah says: " And (remember) when We said unto the angels: "Fall
prostrate before Adam", and they fell prostrate, all save Satan. He
was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will you
choose him and his progeny for your protecting friends instead of Me,
when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-
doers." [Sûrah al-Kahf: 50]
The sacred texts indicate that the jinn and the angels are two
separate creations of Allah. The Jinn were created from a flame of
fire, while the angels were created from light. The Qur'ân states this
clearly in Sûrah al-Rahmân, verse 15:
And He created the jinn of a flame of fire.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Allah created the angels from
light. He created the jinn from a flame of fire, and He created Adam
from what was described to you." [Sahîh Muslim (5314)]
Scholars differ regarding whether Satan was from the jinn or from the
angels. Some scholars argue that he is from the angels, since Allah's
command to the angels applied to Satan as well. They cite verse 34 of
Sûrah al-Baqarah:
And when We said unto the angels: "Fall prostrate before Adam." They
fell prostrate, all except Satan. He refused and was haughty. He was
of those who reject faith.
However, the apparent meaning of what the Qur'ân says about Satan
elsewhere indicates that he was is indeed from the jinn. The same
story of Satan's refusal to bow down is given in the Qur'ân in other
places where it is indicated that Satan is from the jinn, though he
was in the assembly of the angels and was commanded to bow down to
Adam along with them. Sûrah al-A`râf (7): verses 10-12 reads:
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: "Fall
prostrate before Adam!" And they fell prostrate, all save Satan, who
was not of those who make prostration.
(Allah) said: "What hindered you so that you did not prostrate when I
commanded you?"
He said: "I am better than him: You had created me of fire, while him
You created from clay."
Verse 50 of Sûrah al-Kahf talks about precisely the same incident and
is explicit in stating that Satan is from the jinn:
And (remember) when We said unto the angels: "Fall prostrate before
Adam", and they fell prostrate, all save Satan. He was of the jinn, so
he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will you choose him and his
progeny for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an
enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-doers.
We should not understand from Allah's words: "He was of the jinn, so
he rebelled.." that Satan had to disobey Allah because he was from the
Jinn. There are jinn who obey Allah and are pious Muslims. Rather, we
can understand from the verse that Satan had the ability to disobey
Allah because he was from the jinn. This is because, as one of the
Jinn, he possesses free will and can choose to disobey Allah's
command. The angels, by contrast, always obey Allah.
Those who argue that Satan is a fallen angel try to explain the
statement "He was of the jinn" with a number of unconvincing
explanations. Some have argued that Satan might have been from a tribe
of angels or a group of angels called the "Jinn". Others quote Jewish
and Christian traditions about Lucifer to support their claim.
God(allah) commanded the angels and satan to prostrate to Adam
( Honoring and reverence for the human )
Which is me ... you ( how to obey the satan then ?)
We are better than him how to obey him then ?
Satan disobeyed God for that he wants you to be like him
that dualistic theory it be a false perception by satan only
Why put your heart and your mind in the grip of satan ?
kinpa ..I will have evidence to prove who God is
imanway
imanway
kinpa ..... . Death of Iblis (satan)
One of Allah’s rules is to test humans. Allah says what means:
*{Allah might test what is in your breasts and purge what is in your
hearts: For Allah knoweth well the secrets of your hearts.}* (Aal
`Imran 3:154)
And one of Allah's tests for us is Iblis (may Allah curse him), whose
aim is to order people with bad deeds and to insinuate evil ideas into
their minds. Iblis has vowed to take sons of Adam astray from Allah's
right path. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Behold! We said to the angels: “Bow down unto Adam”: they bowed down
except Iblis: he said: “Shall I bow down to one whom Thou didst create
from clay?” [Iblis] said: “Seest Thou? This is the one whom Thou hast
honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment,
I will surely bring his descendants under my sway, all but a
few!” [Allah] said: “Go thy way; if any of them follow thee, verily
Hell will be the recompense of you [all] - an ample recompense.”}* (Al-
Israa’ 17:61-63)
Iblis has asked Allah to leave him till the Day of Judgment and
pledged to bring the descendants of Adam (peace be upon him) under his
sway. Allah said to him that He will respite him till the time
appointed; He did not say till the Day of Judgment. The Qur’an shows
us this scene in the verses that mean:
*{[Iblis] said: “O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the
[dead] are raised.” [Allah] said: “Respite is granted thee, till the
Day of the time appointed.”}* (Al-Hijr 36-38)
There are different points of views explaining the word “time
appointed”. One group says it is on the Day of Resurrection, while
others say it is the time Allah appointed for Iblis's death and is
known only by Allah. At the same time, most Islamic scholars say that
“time appointed” means the day when all creatures will die, that is,
at the first trumpet blast. Ibn `Abbas was one of those who say it
means the first trumpet blast.
imanway
imanway
> On Nov 22, 6:54 am, imanway <imanway6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 10:35 pm, tlastis <tlas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > PART 3
>
> > > > > > > > The Day of Judgment:
>
> > > > > > > > “That Day, a man shall flee from his brother; from his mother and his
> > > > > > > > father; from his wife and his children. For on that Day, every man
> > > > > > > > will have enough to make him indifferent to others.” (Quran 80:34-37)
>
> > > > > > > > The Hour of Resurrection will be a terrifying, overwhelming event.
> > > > > > > > Yet, despite its trauma, the believer will be ecstatic, just as
> > > > > > > > Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him,
> > > > > > > > related from his Lord:
>
> > > > > > > > God says, “By My Glory and Majesty, I will not give My slave two
> > > > > > > > securities and two terrors. If he feels secure from Me in the world
> > > > > > > > [1], I will instill fear in him on the Day when I gather My slaves
> > > > > > > > together; and if he fears Me in the world, I will make him feel safe
> > > > > > > > on the Day when I gather My slaves together.”[2]
>
> > > > > > > > “Unquestionably, for the allies of God there will be no fear
> > > > > > > > concerning them, nor will they grieve: those who believed and used to
> > > > > > > > fear God (in this life); for them are good tidings in the worldly life
> > > > > > > > and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the words of God. Indeed
> > > > > > > > in that is the great success.” (Quran 10:62-64)
>
> > > > > > > > When all humans ever created are gathered to stand naked and
> > > > > > > > uncircumcised on a great plain under the ferocious scorching heat of
> > > > > > > > the Sun, an elite group of pious men and women will be shaded under
> > > > > > > > the Throne of God. The Prophet Muhammad foretold just who these
> > > > > > > > fortunate souls will be, on that Day when no other shade will avail:
> > > > > > > > [3]
>
> > > > > > > > · a just ruler who did not abuse his power, but established
> > > > > > > > divinely revealed justice among people
>
> > > > > > > > · a young man who grew up worshipping his Lord and controlled
> > > > > > > > his desires in order to remain chaste
>
> > > > > > > > · those who hearts were attached to the Mosques, longing to
> > > > > > > > return every time they left them
>
> > > > > > > > · those who loved one another for God’s sake
>
> > > > > > > > · those who were tempted by seductively beautiful women, but
> > > > > > > > their fear of God stopped them from sinning
>
> > > > > > > > · the one who spent in charity sincerely for God’s sake,
> > > > > > > > keeping their charity secret
>
> > > > > > > > · the one who wept out of God’s fear in solitude
>
> > > > > > > > Specific acts of worship will also keep people safe on that day,
> > > > > > > > namely:
>
> > > > > > > > · efforts in this world to relieve the woes of the distressed,
> > > > > > > > to help the needy, and to overlook the mistakes of others will relieve
> > > > > > > > people’s own distress on Judgment Day[4]
>
> > > > > > > > · leniency shown to the indebted[5]
>
> > > > > > > > · the just who are fair to their families and matters entrusted
> > > > > > > > to them[6]
>
> > > > > > > > · controlling anger[7]
>
> > > > > > > > · whoever calls to prayer[8]
>
> > > > > > > > · growing
>
> > > ...
>
> > > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > Open your mind and your heart ......why do you hate Islam ?
>
> > do you love God ?
>
> > imanway
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Imanway, it's in the interest of clarity to include the words you're
> referring to from the last post(s), so I'll add them here....
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > you still carrying to efforts of others against Islam
>
> >> > do not talk by tongue of others
>
> >> > There are things beautiful do not know it
>
> >> > may allah guide you
>
> >> > imanway
>
> >> -------------------------------------
>
> >> We are all free to post articles we find to be relevant. You post many
> >> words of others here.
>
> >> > may allah guide you
>
> >> No thank you.
>
> >> God of my understanding does not damn any person or group for
> >> eternity. God of my understanding holds everyone to the same laws of
> >> responsibility for their own actions, irregardless of religion.
>
> >> -----
>
> >> Thirteen Talks on Political >>Islam:http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/category/thirteen-talks-on-politic...
> >> orhttp://tinyurl.com/ygjcqsa
>
> >> -------------------------------------
> > - Show quoted text -
> >Open your mind and your heart ......why do you hate Islam ?
> >do you love God ?
> >imanway
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> "So why was God put the religions ?"
>
> A complicated question...I'd probably say religions are by, of, for,
> man, and like all things here have to do with going through many
> experiences through many lifetimes. Soul is not identified by any one
> of the religions it experiences while on earth. Soul is independent of
> all religion. I believe in a hierarchy of ever greater consciousness,
> and man interprets directly the waves as they come down, through mind
> and the consciousness of each receiver as best that he can. But the
> positive and negative forces are always at battle here, another
> complicated issue to tackle. The purpose of the positive and negative
> forces is always for unfoldment of Soul over eons of 'time'. We are
> all knowing in Soul, but mind is a limited filter for manifestation of
> spiritual realizations.
>
> "Open your mind and your heart ......why do you hate Islam ?"
>
> I don't hate Islam. I am detached, but believe in full disclosure.
> When you show only half of the real Islam, others should attempt to
> give the bigger picture. The whole story needs to be told when
> someone proselytizes in such a limited way, otherwise it's a danger to
> those of us who believe in preserving our own freedoms--that danger is
> Sharia laws, with dhimmitude for those of other religions. Islam
> cannot be separated from its ideological, governmental, all-
> encompassing Sharia laws. Let's have full disclosure about loss of
> freedoms of the people in any country in which Islam becomes a
> majority; that could affect Europe in the not too distant future.
> Let's not wake up one morning and say 'how could this have
> happened?'. At least be informed, at least do not be afraid to speak
> the truth. I don't believe in speaking with enmity, but with
> truthfulness.
>
> "do you love God ?"
>
> My most important attention and goal is to better understand and
> realize Spirit in life.
>
> Back to understanding Sharia law:
>
> Shariahttp://www.politicalislam.com/blog/sharia/
> orhttp://tinyurl.com/yfc3syk
>
> Islam is a political system, a culture and a religion. The political
> system has a legal code call Sharia law.
>
> When most people think about Islam and danger to our civilization,
> they think of Jihad. But there is something that is far more dangerous
> than Jihad--Sharia law, Islamic law, but Sharia is not law in the
> sense that we think of it.
>
> Sharia not only covers the normal legal things that you might think of
> - contracts, wills, criminal law, how people are to be punished, but
> it also includes rules on how to run a family, have sex, worship,
> pray, say hello and other ideas that we would call religious and
> cultural. This is because Sharia law is based upon the Koran and the
> Sunnah. The Sunna is found in the Sira (Mohammed's biography) and the
> Hadith (his Traditions). Sharia law is a compilation of the directives
> found in the Sunna and the Koran.
>
> Sharia law is an attempt to form all societies to a society that
> duplicates Arabia in the days of Mohammed. Sharia law can be seen as a
> "paper Mohammed" devoted to forcing every person to be like an Arab of
> Medina in 632 AD. Therefore, it goes into all the details of human
> life that Mohammed dictated and includes the regulation of sex, food,
> worship, travel and all legal details. Since Mohammed set rules for
> the smallest detail of life, so does Sharia.
>
> Why is Sharia more dangerous than Jihad?
>
> What most people mean by jihad is the jihad of the sword, violence. We
> can use police and military to protect ourselves against violence, but
> there is a soft Jihad that comes from money, the pen and the tongue.
> The soft jihad is devoted to us allowing Sharia law to function in our
> society. Muslims want Sharia law because only under Sharia law is can
> Muslims practice pure Islam.
>
> Sharia dictates the form of government and its laws. Real Islam cannot
> be practiced in America today because we have a Constitution. But our
> Constitution is ignorant, man-made, garbage according to Sharia law.
> The work that Jefferson, Adams, Benjamin Franklin and all of the other
> founding fathers is an offense to Islam. The Declaration of
> Independence and the Constitution are pure ignorance because they
> violate Sharia law and Islam. Why?
>
> Because Benjamin Franklin and all the other people who put together
> our Constitution had no knowledge of any sort of all. How could they?
> Because according to Islam and Sharia law the only real knowledge
> comes from the Koran and the Sunnah. There's no actual knowledge
> outside of those three books - Koran, Sira, Hadith. And therefore only
> laws that are based upon Koran, Sira and Hadith can be true or real
> because man made laws, our Constitution, all of our legal theory -
> they're nothing. They're all a part of Jahiliya - ignorance.
>
> Our legal system is based upon two principles-the Golden Rule and
> critical thought. The Golden Rule is a unitary ethical system-all
> people are to be treated the same. When we say do unto others, as you
> would have them do unto you, we mean ALL others, without regard to
> sex, race, or age. It is unitary because there is one rule, one basis
> of ethics.
>
> Islam is based instead on dualistic ethics-there is one set of rules
> for Muslims and another set of rules ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Islam has not the secrets which believe in disclosure it (
I think ME ( as muslim) who do explain the reality of Islam, not
YOU
Have you worked Compare ( Islamic law (shraria).... and Jewish
law ....... Christian law)
read about (The Authority of the Talmud in Judaism) do read it and
told me the difference then ...
read about ( the Trinity in Christian )
you can speak about Islam after reading about Jewish law .......
Christian law
that( Jihad ) as guarantee against usurpers and aggressors
it defend about land, and the souls of muslims ...such as the Jews
defend about themselves
See what is happening today !
I'm not responsible when you take the Islam of the mud Zionism ..
imanway
Kinpa
those are bold words...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> do you know who is satan ? I am sure you do not know !
>________________________________________________________________________________
i am sure you are wrong about that, so, we disagree...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Satan is your enemy ......satan is " jinn" ....who ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Satan is not jinn, demon, negative entity...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> was start from the creation of Adam peace be upon him
>
> Allah says: " And (remember) when We said unto the angels: "Fall
> prostrate before Adam", and they fell prostrate, all save Satan. He
> was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will you
> choose him and his progeny for your protecting friends instead of Me,
> when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-
> doers." [Sûrah al-Kahf: 50]
>
> The sacred texts indicate that the jinn and the angels are two
> separate creations of Allah. The Jinn were created from a flame of
> fire, while the angels were created from light. The Qur'ân states this
> clearly in Sûrah al-Rahmân, verse 15:
> And He created the jinn of a flame of fire.
> The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Allah created the angels from
> light. He created the jinn from a flame of fire, and He created Adam
> from what was described to you." [Sahîh Muslim (5314)]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the qur'an means nothing to me, anymore than does the bible or any
other book...no offense to you, but do not quote the qur'an to me and
expect it to bear any significance, it doesnt work that way...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
restate your question? i dont understand what you mean...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Satan disobeyed God for that he wants you to be like him
>
> that dualistic theory it be a false perception by satan only
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you say that not because you have the experience of such, but because
your book doesnt speak of it, and that isnt enough for me, we shall
have to agree to disagree...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Why put your heart and your mind in the grip of satan ?
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what gives you the idea i have done any such thing?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> kinpa ..I will have evidence to prove who God is
>
> imanway
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you will never have evidence to prove any such thing to me, at best,
you can only prove that to yourself, but if you prove WHO God is, you
will still be seeking proof...you do not have my permission to convert
me, so please, do not attempt it...
Kinpa
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thats a nice story, and im not surprised that you are unable to see
out of that box, however, understand, that just because a book say
this, that doesnt make it the truth, and i choose not to accept that
as truth as my experience shows something far different to me, simple
as that, and i can say no more...
imanway
> On Nov 22, 5:06 pm, "Sean" <h...@home.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Kinpa" <tsharp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:e8bf717e-20ec-4ac3...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> > ==========
>
> > I am certain that there was a better way to present your personal views
> > about creation Kinpa, in a way that would not necessarily be so confronting
> > that will create mental blocks due the choice of words being used for one
> > who follows from Birth a teaching of the Book.
>
> > feeelings about this are === as opposed to you presenting it as if you are
> > speaking for God and knows beyond doubt what was was/is bothered about or
> > not. See what I mean? :)
>
> God,Eckankar, or anyone else, however, what i spoke of is easily found
> round the world, it's hardly new, even if the concepts are new to
> imanway, in fact, she can read the works of Rumi and find the same
> truths....cutting her a break loses it's meaning within her own words,
> as she has yet to cut anyone or thing here a break, and as i said
> before, she gets what she gives,i asked her once if she was trying to
> convert anyone, what i took from her answer was a big yes... she gets
> spoken to on HER own terms, she chose it, and im fine with that, why
> shouldnt i be?im not interested in converting her, or proving that my
> POV is correct and hers wrong, but neither will i sit and agree,
> because i dont agree, i perceive many distinctions within the answer
> to her question, and simply put, she DID ask....i spoke of things that
> truly cannot be spoken of properly, so if i went with the short answer
> to the question and left some of it out, you'll have to forgive me for
>
> - Show quoted text -
kinpa ....when you asked me before if I was trying to convert anyone
I do not said YES not correct I remember said ( embrace the truth)
I convey to image of Islam truth I do not forcing anyone to embrace
it
imanway
imanway
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you very much ....sean
I have read your words here ....you was fairly.......thank you for
courtesy anyway
I know that the road here not a bed of roses ..no problem in a serious
discussion with the members here
thank you for gave me the opportunity here
imanway