Former Eckankar VP Todd Kramer
Nathan Zafran
wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Eckists, sadly, forget that being involved with truth means not telling lies.
Howcum this spiritually inferior bigot knows what tens of thousands of
Eckists forget or remember?
>Once they wake up to this fact, they will find that they can no longer participate
>in the "big huge lie". If you think I'm kidding, give former Eckankar VP Todd
>Kramer a call and ask why he said, publicly, that the Eckists he worked with were
>mostly hyprocrites, and why he quit his cushy, high-paying job at the "Temple".
Well, I had a very long talk with Todd Cramer several months after his
move back to California. He came to the San Francisco seminar merely
to meet a whole bunch of his Eck friends whom he knew were coming
there. So much for the "hypocrite" nonsense. His reason for leaving
Eckankar had nothing to do whatsoever with the people who worked at
ESC. He stated flatly that the only reason he left was because he
stopped believing in the inner teachings. He didn't join another path,
and his wife was still a dedicated Eckist who had no problem with
Eckankar.
>
>(I suppose it is possible that he "repented" and came back, but the last I heard,
>he packed up the family and moved to California. I visited his vacant house
>across from the "Temple" after he moved out, so don't you Eckists try to lie your
>way out of this one).
I don't need to lie, like this bigot has just done. I've been living
the truth of Eckankar for over 26 years, and seen many wonderful
transformations in the consciousness of hundreds of people. People who
didn't give a damn about Eckankar's history, but were only interested
in the spiritual exercises of ECK.
Now go and tell these hundreds of spiritually transformed people that
they are living a complete lie, and that all their experiences amount
to a hill of beans!
Then go and tell them what truth really is, and then tell them the
exact way to find a greater truth than the one they have found through
Eckankar.
Because that's what spiritually-inferior bigots do.
In ECK,
Nathan
Nathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
SoulWords
>exact way to find a greater truth than the one they have found through
>Eckankar.
Ever since I joined Eckankar in 1972 I've been totally open to find anything
better, and I haven't. For me Eckankar is not
some outer belief system to become attached to, but more of a launching
pad for an exploration of the divine.
I have never found a better launching pad!
There are people from all faiths that have chosen to let go of their teachings,
and all
that basically proves is that people change
Best, David
Rich
>
> x-no-archive:yes
<SNIP>
Hey Paul Markert, guess Nathan caught you on that false assumption.
If anyone is interested in talking to Paul I can provide his phone
number.:->
(Just pushing his button since he and a couple others here hired a
lawyer to threaten to sue Richard Pickett for providing information on
the A.R.E. Oasis that was freely found on the internet)
--
o
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(___________/
Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jan4litsnd
>Better dust off the old ECK books and read that crap that Twitchell wrote
because
THAT'S where it all sprang from Gnat.
Actually, CB, that is exactly where it did NOT spring from. That is the point
precisely. Books are only an attempt to try to put it down on paper to try to
assist others, or give them a boost to find it for themselves; like David's,
launching pad for an exploration of the divine, analogy.
Books are NOT where it's at. That is the bottom line difference between what
the detractors are trying to say in here, vs what some ECKists who post here
are trying to say.
Detractors say the books sound outlandish (to them), so therefore must be
untrue; or that the parts that are what they think of as spiritual, well it
came from somewhere else first (with name changes, of course).
Some ECKists say the books are fallible, but the resulting experiences they
lead us to find via Soul and connection with the Light and Sound and the
Mahanta are real.
I don't know what the case is/was for Todd Kramer, but I know the inner
teachings and connection with the Mahanta are real and available. Like any
path, it is a discipline, it's not for free. Just because this path is eas-ier
than some of it's eastern counterparts, in that it was designed for twentieth
century man (and twenty-first coming up!), it's still up to each individual to
make their way from concentration of mostly the outer world (and outer
teachings), to the inner teachings. Those who can't find their way,
unfortunately, at times do drop away from the path.
Jan
P.S. Busy time coming up, lots of relatives visiting starting later today, on
through the week after Thanksgiving. Don't think I've gone for good if it's
hard to visit with you guys.(Or maybe I can peak in late at night).
sharo...@myremarq.com
> >Better dust off the old ECK books and read that crap that Twitchell
> >wrote
> because
> THAT'S where it all sprang from Gnat.
>
> Actually, CB, that is exactly where it did NOT spring from. That is the
> point precisely. Books are only an attempt to try to put it down on paper
> to try to assist others, or give them a boost to find it for themselves;
> like David's, launching pad for an exploration of the divine, analogy.
Excuse me? The books sprang from Twitch's mind. He started doing
it for money. He couldn't make a living any other way...he was
giving talks, found one interested person, and said he'd write
discourses...but would have to charge her.
Now, the man admitted he spent most of his life in bed (I'll post
the quote---including page number since it's important to you.)
Now, wouldn't it would be nice if we could all spend our lives in
bed, and not get a job and work to support ourselves?
Twitch couldn't make it in the world. He blamed his personal
problems on everyone else...nasty bosses, the whole world in
general...thought he was so "special" and above everyone else that
he didn't have to be responsible for himself, and that everyone
else should just be grateful to be blessed with the fact that God
had given him to the world...and send him money. Good grief, it's
all there, for anyone who takes the time to look!
He thought the world owed him a living. He had a massive chip on
his shoulder. A fifty-ton rock, with the word "EGO" spray-painted
on it!
>
> Books are NOT where it's at. That is the bottom line difference between
> what the detractors are trying to say in here, vs what some ECKists who
> post here are trying to say.
>
Excuse me? Twitch says go forth and convert the world with his
"Holey Scriptures." Klemp says read, study, contemplate -- and oh
my, wouldn't it be wonderful if all eckists were like the African
chelas who ingested so much & so thoroughly that they could
regurgitate copiously, without thinking, and do awesome seminar
talks. But of course, Klemp *knows* most people wouldn't go for
that -- 20 minutes a day, and dreaming your way to God-realization
is the only thing that'll sell today. Hey, Twitch dropped his
original plans real fast...tons of study, writing papers,
listening to tapes...I think it's in LC, I'm not sure. But I've
posted it.
> Detractors say the books sound outlandish (to them), so therefore must be
> untrue; or that the parts that are what they think of as spiritual, well
> it came from somewhere else first (with name changes, of course).
The books *are* outlandish...and yes, the "spiritual" DID come from
somewhere else! The public library...where Twitch got it.
Difficulties Page 98: "...when I was in Seattle I read about 35,000
books...I read about 15,000 books (in Wash.DC) there...and other
places in NY...I may have read 5,000 or something like that when I
was there for one year in 1946..."
C'mon, the man was...unbalanced! He wasn't having visitation from
Masters...he was hallucinating! He had no family ties, no friends,
oh yes, he did desperately seek female companionship...
He had nothing in his life. He was rejected wherever he went, and
not taken seriously by anyone. He was desperate for love, attention,
and approval....on HIS terms. He wrote in DIFF...from tapes he made
in1971, that he took 3.5 years in Seattle creating Eckankar...on a
later visit, Gail commented "They didn't treat you too well here, did
they?"
He said he didn't want to be around anyone but "his own people."
People who believed him when he said he was God On Earth.
>
> Some ECKists say the books are fallible, but the resulting experiences
> they lead us to find via Soul and connection with the Light and Sound and
> the Mahanta are real.
>
You find what the books tell you you're going to find, with
psychic reinforcement that you believe is "spiritual" because
that's what you're told it is.
> I don't know what the case is/was for Todd Kramer, but I know the inner
> teachings and connection with the Mahanta are real and available. Like
> any path, it is a discipline, it's not for free. Just because this path
> is eas-ier than some of it's eastern counterparts, in that it was
> designed for twentieth century man (and twenty-first coming up!), it's
> still up to each individual to make their way from concentration of
> mostly the outer world (and outer teachings), to the inner teachings.
> Those who can't find their way, unfortunately, at times do drop away from
> the path.
>
Again, you're simply repeating what you're told.
I don't consider it "discipline" to sit down and chant
ooga-booga 20 minutes a day.
I got sucked into your cult, Jan, because I thought it
explained experiences I'd already had. The cultic mind-control
techniques worked. But thank goodness, not forever.
You know...it's fascinating, the way KSW, published by Lancer
and therefore, with a possibility for wider public circulation
than the IWP books, wasn't too heavy on cultic indoctrination.
The "spiritual exercises" are interesting....and Twitch is
quite open about connecting them with hypnotism, actually. And
he's better on mentioning all the other teachings where he got
his stuff....goes a bit easy on the Reb materialization thing...
Why? Because he was shrewd. He just wanted to get people
a little interested, he dangled the bait...then when they hit,
he'd lure them in with the heavy cult indoctrination stuff,
set the hook, and reel them in...
He was a smart man. Too bad he couldn't accept a little
responsibility for himself and his actions, and could care less
about anyone or anything else in the world.
Sharon
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet for the Web
sharon v.c.
I'd appreciate your sending me his phone number. You can just
put it in the subject line.
Oh...if you have a problem sending me things on request...because
I may open the door for a moment, then it's closed again...you
can probably send the number to just about any detractor you
choose, and I'm sure they'll forward it to me.
Thank you.
Sharon
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
Rich
Detractors often present themselves as knowledgable experts
on the innermost thoughts, feelings and motivations of
Eckankar's leaders, none of which they could possibly know.
They do this in the effort to support their agenda. This
tactic obfuscates the validity of the teachings of Eckankar.
It is common practice for them to attack the leaders by giving
the impression that they have proof of such information.
In fact they are usually just distorting a few words
they have extracted from an old book or talk.
Jan4litsnd
Rich wrote:
> Detractors often present themselves as knowledgable experts
on the innermost thoughts, feelings and motivations of
Eckankar's leaders, none of which they could possibly know.
They do this in the effort to support their agenda. This
tactic obfuscates the validity of the teachings of Eckankar.
It is common practice for them to attack the leaders by giving
the impression that they have proof of such information.
In fact they are usually just distorting a few words
they have extracted from an old book or talk.
Thank you for writing that, Rich. You are so right about that when it comes to
Sharon. In reading her posts, it is quite incredible the leaps she takes and
the assumptions of motivations that she couldn't possibly know anything about.
Jan
sharo...@myremarq.com
> `
>
> Detractors often present themselves as knowledgable experts
> on the innermost thoughts, feelings and motivations of
> Eckankar's leaders, none of which they could possibly know.
You (and your Holey Scriptures) make certain claims
about your "leaders." You claim that they are
motivated by the "highest consciousness in the universe."
We disagree.
Rather than blindly believe the ridiculous claims of a
cult, we suggest that people take a second look, and
consider other possibilities.
> They do this in the effort to support their agenda. This
> tactic obfuscates the validity of the teachings of Eckankar.
The teachings of your cult invalidate themselves.
> It is common practice for them to attack the leaders by giving
> the impression that they have proof of such information.
> In fact they are usually just distorting a few words
> they have extracted from an old book or talk.
The old books are your Holey Scriptures, Rich, and
THE WORD OF THE ECK. The talks are published in
these books.
I post quotes.
sharo...@myremarq.com
> Rich wrote:
>
> > Detractors often present themselves as knowledgable experts
> on the innermost thoughts, feelings and motivations of
> Eckankar's leaders, none of which they could possibly know.
> tactic obfuscates the validity of the teachings of Eckankar.
> the impression that they have proof of such information.
> In fact they are usually just distorting a few words
> they have extracted from an old book or talk.
>
> comes to Sharon. In reading her posts, it is quite incredible the leaps
> she takes and the assumptions of motivations that she couldn't possibly
> know anything about.
>
I think the words of Paul Twitchell say it all...
(An excerpt...for the rest of Paul Twitchell's Secret Discourse
Series....the one-year intensive indoctrination for eck "missionaries" ...
see http://www.delphi.com/eckankartruth )
From Letters to a Chela by Paul Twitchell---page 34
For Initiates Only---the discourse series that Harold Klemp and long-time
Eckists (including some here on ARE) studied & were brainwashed with--this
discourse series was reprinted in book form by Darwin, and continued being
sold for many years under Harold Klemp. (Please note the words I've * *)
"So ECK of ITSELF must find those who are willing to *plant* themselves in
church groups, of every nature, and act as the ones to *spread the message*
of ECK. These are commonly called *cells* in political jargon, but we know
them as *cadres.* This is to *get a foothold* in any group, any
institution and to be able to quietly but effectively *give out the message
of ECK*, and act as *reformers* within these groups ****so that their
members will come over to the works of ECK.**** This is one of the
efficient ways of educating others to *become sympathetic with the ECK and
ITS works.*
Since Christianity is only an aspect of the ECK there is no need of viewing
it or any other religion with awe. All religions and philosophies spring
out of the fountainhead of ECK. Therefore we must look upon each with a
sympathetic view that every group is respectively struggling to find the
Godhead.
***Since every ECKist knows that the Godhead is that which is available
only through the path of ECK then he must be warm, sympathetic and helpful
to those in religions, occultism and philosophies for they are all the
subordinates of ECKANKAR.******
There is no need to fight them, no need to have arguments with them or try
to give them truth when none are ready for it.
***But we can find ways of entering into the middle stream of life
everywhere, in social clubs, on civic boards, in groups of people who are
*seemingly without anything in their lives*. You can get invitations to
talk to public groups on ECK, have your own festivals, such as an ECK
festival, or go on radio and television programs wherever available.
*******
*****You can visit old folks homes and help cheer them up; visit hospitals
and help with people who are not able to help themselves. Become readers
who will talk to people who are handicapped, or read to them *from the
works, the books of ECK.*
****** You can also ******infiltrate***** young people groups and tell them
about ECK. You can make talks to high school groups and to university and
college classes.
There are a hundred ways in which you can make yourself available to do
work for passing out the message of ECK. Everyone of them is a part of
your training for ECK leadership."
---------------------------------
Jan4litsnd
>> >Better dust off the old ECK books and read that crap that Twitchell
>> >wrote
>> because
>> THAT'S where it all sprang from Gnat.
>
>> Actually, CB, that is exactly where it did NOT spring from. That is the
>> point precisely. Books are only an attempt to try to put it down on paper
>> to try to assist others, or give them a boost to find it for themselves;
>> like David's, launching pad for an exploration of the divine, analogy.
> Excuse me? The books sprang from Twitch's mind. He started doing
it for money. He couldn't make a living any other way...he was
giving talks, found one interested person, and said he'd write
discourses...but would have to charge her.
How do you make up motivations for someone else and sleep at night? He made a
simple comment somewhere in something he wrote about someone who wanted
teachings/discourses from him, and you turn it into something evil sounding.
> Now, the man admitted he spent most of his life in bed (I'll post
the quote---including page number since it's important to you.)
I don't remember that, where did you read it? Page numbers are important,
otherwise, how do we find it and read the surrounding words that sometimes have
impact on what is being said.
> Now, wouldn't it would be nice if we could all spend our lives in
bed, and not get a job and work to support ourselves?
> Twitch couldn't make it in the world. He blamed his personal
problems on everyone else...nasty bosses, the whole world in
general...thought he was so "special" and above everyone else that
> he didn't have to be responsible for himself, and that everyone
else should just be grateful to be blessed with the fact that God
had given him to the world...and send him money.
He was by his own admission a character and a cliffhanger. But the way you turn
the words, you're just making stuff up.
> Good grief, it's
> all there, for anyone who takes the time to look!
> He thought the world owed him a living. He had a massive chip on
> his shoulder. A fifty-ton rock, with the word "EGO" spray-painted
on it!
>
>> Books are NOT where it's at. That is the bottom line difference between
>> what the detractors are trying to say in here, vs what some ECKists who
>> post here are trying to say.
>
> Excuse me? Twitch says go forth and convert the world with >his
"Holey Scriptures."
You are not excused.
Paul Twitchell always said the inner experiences and connection with the Light
and Sound are what is important. His books are roadmaps.
> Klemp says read, study, contemplate -- and >oh
> my, wouldn't it be wonderful if all eckists were like the African
chelas who ingested so much & so thoroughly that they could
regurgitate copiously, without thinking, and do awesome >seminar
talks.
Harold Klemp says in order to make and then keep the connection with Spirit,
you do four things each day, contemplate (do the Spiritual Exercises), read a
little from one of the ECK books or discourses, practice the presence of the
Mahanta, and have discipline.
He has talked about how the African chelas know the works so thoroughly that
they can stand up and give a discourse on a moments notice. He never said that
anyone else should do that. He recognizes they have a particular culture that
promotes that.
> But of course, Klemp *knows* most people wouldn't go for
that -- 20 minutes a day, and dreaming your way to God-realization
is the only thing that'll sell today. Hey, Twitch dropped his
original plans real fast...tons of study, writing papers,
listening to tapes...I think it's in LC, I'm not sure. But I've
posted it.
Tell us the reference, please.
>> Detractors say the books sound outlandish (to them), so therefore must be
>> untrue; or that the parts that are what they think of as spiritual, well
>> it came from somewhere else first (with name changes, of course).
> The books *are* outlandish...and yes, the "spiritual" DID come from
> somewhere else! The public library...where Twitch got it.
He studied all teachings.
> Difficulties Page 98: "...when I was in Seattle I read about 35,000
> books...I read about 15,000 books (in Wash.DC) there...and other
> places in NY...I may have read 5,000 or something like that when I
> was there for one year in 1946..."
Yes, he read a lot of books.
> C'mon, the man was...unbalanced! He wasn't having visitation from
> Masters...he was hallucinating.
How in the world would you know anything about what someone, anyone else does
in their own private inner world?
>He had no family ties, no friends,
> oh yes, he did desperately seek female companionship...
> He had nothing in his life. He was rejected wherever he went, and
> not taken seriously by anyone. He was desperate for love, attention,
> and approval....on HIS terms. He wrote in DIFF...from tapes he made
> in1971, that he took 3.5 years in Seattle creating Eckankar...on a
> later visit, Gail commented "They didn't treat you too well here, did
they?"
Boy, you just take these little pieces that you read, just like Rich said, and
twist them around.
> He said he didn't want to be around anyone but "his own people."
> People who believed him when he said he was God On Earth.
>
>> Some ECKists say the books are fallible, but the resulting experiences
>> they lead us to find via Soul and connection with the Light and Sound and
>> the Mahanta are real.
>
> You find what the books tell you you're going to find, with
psychic reinforcement that you believe is "spiritual" because
that's what you're told it is.
You know a lot about _my_ inner life now. Is this some kind of new invention
that allows you to look into the Soul of others, knowing their inner life,
motivations, hopes, dreams, and beliefs. I realize you think that you can know
Paul Twitchell by some simple sentences written about him in a few places here
and there. But in actuality, you can't possibly know what went on in his life,
his hopes, dreams, motivations, or inner life, and inner teachings.
>> I don't know what the case is/was for Todd Kramer, but I know the inner
>> teachings and connection with the Mahanta are real and available. Like
>> any path, it is a discipline, it's not for free. Just because this path
>> is eas-ier than some of it's eastern counterparts, in that it was
> designed for twentieth century man (and twenty-first coming up!), it's
>> still up to each individual to make their way from concentration of
>. mostly the outer world (and outer teachings), to the inner teachings.
>> Those who can't find their way, unfortunately, at times do drop away from
>> the path.
>
> Again, you're simply repeating what you're told.
> I don't consider it "discipline" to sit down and chant
ooga-booga 20 minutes a day.
Obviously.... you're not an ECKist. And the discipline part is ongoing in
every part of life.
> I got sucked into your cult, Jan, because I thought it
explained experiences I'd already had. The cultic mind-control
techniques worked. But thank goodness, not forever.
> You know...it's fascinating, the way KSW, published by >Lancer
> and therefore, with a possibility for wider public circulation
than the IWP books, wasn't too heavy on cultic indoctrination.
The "spiritual exercises" are interesting....and Twitch is
quite open about connecting them with hypnotism, actually.
Where exactly did you read that (about hynotism)?
> And
> he's better on mentioning all the other teachings where he got
> his stuff....goes a bit easy on the Reb materialization thing...
> Why? Because he was shrewd. He just wanted to get people
> a little interested, he dangled the bait...then when they hit,
he'd lure them in with the heavy cult indoctrination stuff,
set the hook, and reel them in...
Bullllonnney!
I told the story in here recently of a friend meeting Paul Twitchell on the
inner planes....prior to ever hearing about ECKANKAR on the outer.
> He was a smart man. Too bad he couldn't accept a little
responsibility for himself and his actions, and could care less
about anyone or anything else in the world.
That is the biggest made up statement I've ever heard.
Jan
mat...@uswest.net
> ... I've been living the truth of Eckankar for over 26 years,
> and seen many wonderful transformations in the consciousness of
> hundreds of people.
Must be terribly heart-breaking, Nathan, to watch these wonderful
transformations and, after 26 years, still be the same egomaniacal fool.
My sympathies. Really.
I met a lot of wonderful people during my stint in Eckankar, and am still
in contact with a number of them. The point is, to me, anyway, that
they're great folks period ... Eckankar has little or nothing to do with
that. Just as there are some incredible jerks in Eckankar, as well, and
the teachings have obviously had little or no effect on them, despite
their "living the truth" the ECK way for oh, so many years, or so they
tell themselves.
Nathan Zafran
>In article <382b9b49....@news.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com>, ezaf...@home.com says...
>
>> ... I've been living the truth of Eckankar for over 26 years,
>> and seen many wonderful transformations in the consciousness of
>> hundreds of people.
>
>Must be terribly heart-breaking, Nathan, to watch these wonderful
>transformations and, after 26 years, still be the same egomaniacal fool.
>My sympathies. Really.
The only thing that's heart-breaking is your hotel-consciousness,
which, obviously, is in dire need of some re-souling.
Please keep your simple teas to yourself. I'll take Red Zinger and
Whatmygoldenananda teas any day.
>I met a lot of wonderful people during my stint in Eckankar, and am still
>in contact with a number of them. The point is, to me, anyway, that
>they're great folks period ... Eckankar has little or nothing to do with
>that.
Of course not. Making contact with one's inner spirit via a spiritual
exercise has been already proven to be totally a waste of time by the
CDC, the NIH, the CIA, and, of course, the NFL AND THE NBA.
Incidentally, it has recently been proven that breathing has little or
nothing to do with hot air. That, iN fact, hot air exists whether one
actually breathes or not.
Just as there are some incredible jerks in Eckankar, as well, and
>the teachings have obviously had little or no effect on them, despite
>their "living the truth" the ECK way for oh, so many years, or so they
>tell themselves.
Yes, and, on the same wavelength, despite the fact that you have
learned to read and write (proven by this very post of yours, BELIEVE
IT OR NOT!), you are still unable to tell the difference between Zest
and Pamolive.
Nor, I might subtract, are you able to make any kind of blanket
statements about whether anything that people have studied have any
effects on them. The only way you could know for sure is to do double
blind studies on a sizeable body of Eckists over a number of years,
before starting the path, and much later. The fact that you are able
to make such asinine, judgemental, spiritually- inferior, and, I might
add, totally bigoted statements, proves that you have the wisdom of a
nincompoop, and the intelligence of a moron.
Not to mention that fact that you are blind in the truest sense of
the word. And I'm not talking about window coverings!
Swami Ireallythinkthishasgonefarenoughananda
Chuck Mattsen
ezaf...@home.com says...
> Please keep your simple teas to yourself. I'll take Red Zinger and
> Whatmygoldenananda teas any day.
Red Zinger is tasty, but in your case I might recommend any of the herbs
known for their colonic effects ... for that "full" feeling.
> Yes, and, on the same wavelength, despite the fact that you have
> learned to read and write (proven by this very post of yours, BELIEVE
> IT OR NOT!), you are still unable to tell the difference between Zest
> and Pamolive.
Buy, by golly, I *can* spell them.
As usual, Nathan, you're the best, walking and talking anti-ECK
advertisement around ... are you secretly on DL's payroll? :-)
Well, it's been fun, but I have my new non-ECK-related life to live. So,
taking a cue from you, and using your oft-repeated line to squelch
discussion the "official" ECK lists,
"I have nothing further to say on the matter."
Nathan Zafran
wrote:
>As usual, Nathan, you're the best, walking and talking anti-ECK
>advertisement around ...
Isn't that true, Chuckie. All the things I say in defense of Eckankar,
all the times I point newcomers to the ECK web site, and the positive
ECK on-line activities, all the times I talk about Eckankar in a
positive way...........it surely is enough to turn just about anyone
away from Eckankar, right?
On the other hand, all the diatribes against Eckankar, all attempts to
invalidate its history, all efforts to discount the inner spiritual
experiences of Eckankar by the anti-crown, of which you have just
become a charter member of........all these are obviously the best
pro-ECK advertisement around, right?
I certainly see your profound sense of logic, here, Chuckie! It's
deep, believe me, really deep wisdom!
>Are you secretly on DL's payroll? :-)
Yes, I'm on Da Lord's payroll, Chuck.
>
>Well, it's been fun, but I have my new non-ECK-related life to live. So,
>taking a cue from you, and using your oft-repeated line to squelch
>discussion the "official" ECK lists,
> "I have nothing further to say on the matter."
Never mind, Chuck. You haven't said anything yet, anyways, that's of
any value. So how could you say anything furthur?
-----------------------------------------
So, Chuck, after all the years on the ECK chat lines, you've left
Eckankar, come to alt.religion.eckankar, and are now starting a new
carreer attempting to invalidate Eckankar and Eckists.
Sounds like you're still in Eckankar, Chuckie. When you take your
attention off Eckankar, then you can say that you've left.
In the meantime, say hello to the rest of the ECK-haters...........You
will find friends here.
Nathan
arel...@home.com
Rich wrote:
>
> `
>
> Detractors often present themselves as knowledgable experts
> on the innermost thoughts, feelings and motivations of
> Eckankar's leaders, none of which they could possibly know.
> They do this in the effort to support their agenda. This
> tactic obfuscates the validity of the teachings of Eckankar.
> It is common practice for them to attack the leaders by giving
> the impression that they have proof of such information.
> In fact they are usually just distorting a few words
> they have extracted from an old book or talk.
It's a holographic universe there Rich. Understand a slice and you can
understand other slices or the whole. Meaning, if you come to know your
own fraudishness, you can see it in eck masters.
You can't argue with holographic theory. <gg>
Lurk
Chuck Mattsen
> > Eckankar, come to alt.religion.eckankar, and are now starting a new
> > carreer attempting to invalidate Eckankar and Eckists.
>
> Eckankar is full of shit. Very simple.
Now, CB, that's something I've never said, nor do I plan to. Some ECKists
are certainly filled to the brim, but the core of the light and sound
teachings, down underneath all the personality hoopla and Mason-like
gradations, whether ECK, Radhasoami, or any of the many teachings that have
some of the light and sound somewhere rattling around down there, are okay
by me. What saddens me is that folks can hold a supposedly high position
within such an organization and really be so messed up. Kind of invalidates
the "system" for granting those outers, IMO.
Anyway, though Nathan has incorrectly decided otherwise, I'm not here to
become a detractor-regular, nor do I plan to hang around. I just loaded up
a new newsreader the other day and figured, well, where should I visit?
Hmm.
alt.sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape or alt.nathan.bait.bait.bait
... flipped a coin, and the rest is history. Makes little difference,
anyway ... we're talking about the same orifice regardless. :-)
Michael Wallace
Nathan Zafran <ezaf...@home.com> wrote in message
news:382b9b49....@news.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com...
> Well, I had a very long talk with Todd Cramer several months after his
> move back to California. He came to the San Francisco seminar merely
> to meet a whole bunch of his Eck friends whom he knew were coming
> there. So much for the "hypocrite" nonsense. His reason for leaving
> Eckankar had nothing to do whatsoever with the people who worked at
> ESC. He stated flatly that the only reason he left was because he
> stopped believing in the inner teachings. He didn't join another path,
> and his wife was still a dedicated Eckist who had no problem with
> Eckankar.
And here is in essence one of the really wonderful things about this path...
A guy right at the top of the tree can set aside all his aspirations, and
his job, and his security simply because he has principles. He followed
through with his principles, despite the fact it would cost him all of the
above.
Now doesn't that say something about the caliber of people on this path?
What is more, he can change his mind tomorrow, and no one (or very few) will
think ill of him because of this. I know of no one who thought badly of the
man for leaving the teaching.
In essence, this is one of the best advertisements for Eckankar, that some
one in the top eschelon of the teaching can leave, and still be able to mix
socially with members of his former teaching. Sort of shoots the "Money for
Salvation" theory Joe has been putting up in the foot...
Love
Michael
Michael Wallace
Chuck Mattsen <mat...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:kGbY3.108$2k....@news.uswest.net...
> Anyway, though Nathan has incorrectly decided otherwise, I'm not here to
> become a detractor-regular, nor do I plan to hang around. I just loaded
up
> a new newsreader the other day and figured, well, where should I visit?
> Hmm.
> alt.sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape or
alt.nathan.bait.bait.bait
> ... flipped a coin, and the rest is history. Makes little difference,
> anyway ... we're talking about the same orifice regardless. :-)
Hya there Sri Chuck
Getting cold over there in MN?
alt.nathan.bait.bait ?? That sounds interesting <G> I looked up
alt.detractor.burn.burn and all I found were a couple of old broom sticks
and some burnt sticks lying about...
But ... alt.sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape ... ROTFL
Love
Michael
>
>
>
>
Chuck Mattsen
news:3831...@pink.one.net.au...
> Hya there Sri Chuck
>
> Getting cold over there in MN?
Hardly, my slightly-soiled puddle-jumping got-the-seasons-all-backwards
friend. :-) It was near 80 the other day. Not bad for Temple land, eh?
> alt.nathan.bait.bait ?? That sounds interesting <G> I looked up
> alt.detractor.burn.burn and all I found were a couple of old broom sticks
> and some burnt sticks lying about...
No, no, no ... it's noun.verb.verb.verb (gotta have *three* of 'em, as in
alt.tonya.harding.whack.whack.whack or
alt.religion.detract.detract.detract). You Aussies aren't all that bright,
are you? :)
> But ... alt.sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape ... ROTFL
That's the desired result, I think, yes ... You may use whatever marsupial
equivalent you can get your hands on. Report back. <g>
But you scoff!? It's there ... has been for years.
Michael Wallace
> Michael Wallace <wall...@one.net.au> wrote in message
> news:3831...@pink.one.net.au...
>
> > Hya there Sri Chuck
> >
> > Getting cold over there in MN?
>
> Hardly, my slightly-soiled puddle-jumping got-the-seasons-all-backwards
> friend. :-) It was near 80 the other day. Not bad for Temple land, eh?
Opps... And here I was watching Summer approach and thinking it was coming
over to Winter your way <G> 80... I tell you it is PROOF the world is going
mad.
>
> > But ... alt.sex.bestiality.hamster.duct-tape ... ROTFL
>
> That's the desired result, I think, yes ... You may use whatever
marsupial
> equivalent you can get your hands on. Report back. <g>
>
> But you scoff!? It's there ... has been for years.
No... Really?
Is it serious? Or just a fun thing... I am getting worried that it may be
serious... Oh my poor hampster! Oh the waste of good duct tape!
You heard about the fellow arrested for beating a dead animal before having
sex with it... Sodomy, Beastiality, Necrophilia... The judge said he was
flogging a dead horse.
<G>
Love
Michael
Michael Wallace
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38318894...@hotmail.com...
> Sorry for putting words in your mouth Chuck.
> Hey there is a "hamster-duct-tape" newsgroup!
> You are an old pro I see!!
At what remains the only question <G>
> I think we should start alt.eckankar.detractors, then see how many Eckies
come
> over to bash our newsgroup.
>
Please... Feel free to start your own group... PLEASE...
<G>
Love
Michael
ken
Michael Wallace <wall...@one.net.au> wrote ...
:
CB wrote:
: > I think we should start alt.eckankar.detractors, then see how many Eckies
: come
: > over to bash our newsgroup.
: >
:
: Please... Feel free to start your own group... PLEASE...
:
: <G>
Don't hold your breath. They need the co-dependent atmosphere of
ARE to get by. Otherwise they'd have nothing to say.
They need the Eckists! <G>
Ken
Michael Wallace
ken <kens...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:80uc8f$s8s$2...@autumn.news.rcn.net...
And isn't this the very sweetest poaradox of the entire Detractor argument
... They are arguing because they need the attention from us ... The A.S.S.
(Attention Seeking Syndrome) strikes again !!
Mind you.. I have to admit that they are highly entertaining. Of course,
most ECKists with any experience will understand that the A.S.S. is based on
a need to have a position of point of view validated, and that this is OK...
We all need validation to some degree.
But most people forget that validation and approval and love... all that
comes easily when we are givers. My experience shows that when I am happy to
share and be open, that the rewards open up accordingly. Thjis is part of my
puzzle with these folk... I guess they are addicted to the argument, but
really, can any one of them look back and say that all the time and effort
invested has paid a dividend in accord with the propertion of effort...
I think I need an equation here... Effort + Argument + Bias = Waste of time?
However, if these goodly folk really need to provide sustenance of their
validity through argument with ECKists... I don't mind. They actually give
me lots of good ideas, and so I am grateful that they bother to do all of
this. Can't see what is in it for them, of course... But at least I get
something of value on occasions...
And of course... Alf sure can make you laugh! <G>
Love
Michael
ken
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
:
Michael wrote ...
: > : Please... Feel free to start your own group... PLEASE...
:
: > Don't hold your breath. They need the co-dependent atmosphere of
: > ARE to get by. Otherwise they'd have nothing to say.
: >
: > They need the Eckists! <G>
:
: Works both ways Ken. As soon as me or Sharon take a few days off, the hits on
: this newsgroup drop off quite remarkably. All you got left is Windy posting
her
: cute little URL's and Nathan posting his weekly 'Welcome' to newcomers. Other
: than that, it's all Spam and Rose and McElwaine. Not much of a group without us
: detractors.
There are 5 or 6 ECK e-mail lists. None of them have active detractors
on them, and they seem to be getting by just fine. I don't know of even
one ECK detractor list in operation.
Like I said, you NEED us <G>.
Ken
mahav...@my-deja.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Michael Wallace
>
> CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
> :
> :
> :
> : Works both ways Ken. As soon as me or Sharon take a few days off, the
hits on
> : this newsgroup drop off quite remarkably. All you got left is Windy
posting
> her
> : cute little URL's and Nathan posting his weekly 'Welcome' to newcomers.
Other
> : than that, it's all Spam and Rose and McElwaine. Not much of a group
without us
> : detractors.
>
>
> There are 5 or 6 ECK e-mail lists. None of them have active detractors
> on them, and they seem to be getting by just fine. I don't know of even
> one ECK detractor list in operation.
>
> Like I said, you NEED us <G>.
Yeah... Well ... Maybe we chouldn't state the obvious, because no one likes
it <G>
There *is* a Detractor List, but Kate tells me the traffic is minimal. So I
guess the only Attention Seeking device left open to the poor folk is here
at a.r.e. <VBG>
Love
Michael
>
>
TuzaTravlr
>it's still up to each individual to
>make their way from concentration of mostly the outer world (and outer
>teachings), to the inner teachings. Those who can't find their way,
>unfortunately, at times do drop away from the path.
Your beliefs, ideas, perception create your individual reality. Duplicity
requires one to escape self in any perceived aspect and many do with the
physical.
One interesting thing, there are probably more ex-eckists that there are
current eckists. So many cannot "find their way" in this belief system it
appears. :o)
Mahavahana
> >jan4l...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >it's still up to each individual to
> >make their way from concentration of mostly the outer world (and outer
> >teachings), to the inner teachings. Those who can't find their way,
> >unfortunately, at times do drop away from the path.
>
> Your beliefs, ideas, perception create your individual reality. Duplicity
> requires one to escape self in any perceived aspect and many do with the
> physical.
Kinda makes "higher Truth" in eckankar a contradiction in terms.
>
> One interesting thing, there are probably more ex-eckists that there are
> current eckists. So many cannot "find their way" in this belief system it
> appears. :o)
Kinda restores one's faith in human nature!
Nathan Zafran
>Your beliefs, ideas, perception create your individual reality. Duplicity
>requires one to escape self in any perceived aspect and many do with the
>physical.
A rolling moan gathers no stoss.
-------------
The above are two statements that make slightly less than perfect
sense. Either that, or mo sense at all. Pake you tick!
The Arbitrator
Jan4litsnd
Tuzatravlr:
>Your beliefs, ideas, perception create your individual reality.
So true. There is no reality here in the true sense of the word. It's like a
motion picture that we have stepped into, gotten involved in, and now
mistakenly believe it to be "real". The question is, what IS real? If a person
has stepped out of the physical body and experienced conscious awareness of
being in the Soul body, they know. That is what ECKANKAR over perhaps a long
period of time tries to help a chela accomplish.
>Duplicity
requires one to escape self in any perceived aspect and many do with the
physical.
Duplicity is just one more (small) aspect of any one's available options. But
there is really never any escaping ourselves, our experiences that we have come
here to experience.
Speaking of "reality", here is a quote from "Journey of Souls", by Michael
Newton, pg. 91, which I was recently rereading:
"The next case offers us an account of what it is like coming back to one's
cluster group after physcial death."
Case 16
"Dr.N: Once you leave the staging area and have arrived in the spiritual space
where you belong, what do you do then?"
"S: I go to school with my friends."
"Dr.N: You mean you are in some kind of spiritual classroom?"
"S: Yes, where we study."
"Dr.N: I want you to take me through this school from the time of your arrival
so I can apprecaite what is happening to you. Start by telliing me what you
see from the outside."
"S: (with no hesitation) I see a perfectly square greek temple with large
sculturedd columns--very beautiful. I recognize it because this is where I
return after each cycle (life)."
"Dr.N: What is a classical Greek temple doing in the spirit world?"
"S: (shrugs) I don't know why it appears to me that way, except it seems
natural...since my lives in Greece."
"Dr.N: All right, let's continue. Does anyone come to meet you?"
"S: (subject smiles broadly) My teacher Karla."
"Dr.N: And how does she appear to you?"
"S: (confidently) I see her coming out fo the entrance of the temple towards
me...as a goddess...tall...wearing long flowing robes...one shoulder is
bare...her hair is piled up and fastened with a gold clasp...she reaches out to
me."
"Dr.N: Look down at yourself. Are you dressed in the same garments?"
"S: We...all seem to be dressed the same...we shimmer with light...and we can
change...Karla knows I like the way she looks."
"Dr.N: Where are the others?"
"S: Karla has taken me inside my temple school. I see a large library. Small
gatherings of people are speaking in quiet tones...at tables. It
is...sedate...warm...a secure feeling which is so familiar to me."
"Dr.N: Do all these people appear as adult men and women?"
"S: Yes, but there are more women in my group."
"Dr.N: Why?"
"S: Because that's the valence they are most comfortable with right now."
"Note: The word valence used by this subject to indicate gender preference is
an odd choice, yet it does fit. Valences in chemistry are positive or negative
properties which, when combined with other elements, give proportion. Souls in
groups may be inclined toward male and female personages or mixed."
"Dr.N: Okay, what do yo do next?"
"S: Karla leads me to the nearest table and my friends immediately greet me.
Oh, it's so good to be back."
"Dr. N: Why are these particular people here with you in this temple?"
"S: Because we are all in the same study group. I can't tell you how happy I
am to be with them once more. (subject becomes distracted with this scene and
it takes me a minute to get her started again)"
"Dr.N: Tell me how many people are in this library with you?"
"S: (pauses while mentally counting About twenty."
"Dr.N: Are all twenty very close friends of yours?"
"S: We are all close--I've known them for ages. But five are my dearest
friends."
"Dr.N: Are every one of the twenty people at about the same level of
learning?"
"S: Uh...almost. Some are a little further along than the rest."
"Dr.N: As to learning lessons, where are you in relation to your five closest
friends?"
"S: Oh, we are about the same---we work together a lot."
"Dr.N: What do yo call them?"
"S: (chuckles) We have pet names for each other."
<snip some>
"Dr.N: Your family group sounds very distinctive. Now would you explain to me
what you and your friends actually do in this library setting?"
"S: The life books."
"Dr.N: Describe them as best you can for me."
"S: They are picture books--thick white edges--two or three inches thick--quite
large..."
"Dr.N: Open one of the life books for me and explain what you and your friends
at the table see."
"S: (pause, while the subject's hands come together and move apart as though
she were opening a book) There is no writing. Everything we see is in live
pictures."
"Dr.N: Action pictures--different than photographs?"
"S: Yes, they are multi-dimensional. They move...shift...from a center
of...crystal...which changes with reflected light."
"Dr.N: So, the pictures are not flat, the moving light waves have depth?"
"S: That's right, they are alive."
"Dr.N: Tell me how you and your friends use the books?"
"S: Well, at first it's always out of focus when the book is opened. Then we
think of what we want, the crystal turns from dark to light and...gets into
alignment. Then we can see...in miniature...our past lives and the
alternatives."
"Dr.N: How is time treated in these books?"
"S: By frames...pages...time is condensed by the life books."
"Dr.N: I don't want to dwell on your past right now, but take a look at the
book and just tell me the first thing you see."
"S: A lack of self-discipline in my last life because this is what is on my
mind. I see myself dying young, in a lover's quarrel--my ending was useless."
"Dr.N: Do you see future lives in the life book?"
"S: We can look at future possibilities...in small bites only...in the form of
lessons...mostly these options come later with the help of others. These books
are intended to emphasize our past acts."
"Dr.N: Would you give me your impression of the intent behind this library
atmosphere with your cluster group?"
"S: Oh, we all help one another go over our mistakes during this cycle. Our
teacher is in and out and so we do a lot of studying together and discuss the
value of our choices."
Jan
Rainforest
In ECK,
George
Chuck Mattsen
sharo...@myremarq.com says...
> Doubt if Newton knew much about the cult when he endorsed
> a Klemp book. You know...that's common courtesy with
> authors, you know. They don't always look closely at what
> their recommending...
I think the practice is referred to as "log-rolling," derogatorily, of
course. :-) Very common, indeed.
I can't remember ... at least one of the recent OOB authors had a
negative opinion of Eckankar, but I cannot recall which one ... might've
been Newton. Anyone wanting to research it *might* find some kind of a
link on Art Bell's site, as I know that particular author has appeared on
that show a few times...
Michael Wallace
> >requires one to escape self in any perceived aspect and many do with the
> >physical.
>
>
A strolling Bone we can all toss?
Love
M
sharo...@myremarq.com
> Tuzatravlr:
> >Your beliefs, ideas, perception create your individual reality.
>
> So true. There is no reality here in the true sense of the word. It's
> like a motion picture that we have stepped into, gotten involved in, and
> now mistakenly believe it to be "real". The question is, what IS real? If
> a person has stepped out of the physical body and experienced conscious
> awareness of being in the Soul body, they know. That is what ECKANKAR
> over perhaps a long period of time tries to help a chela accomplish.
You're living a "reality" concocted by Twitch.
He said it's "spiritual." It's not.
It's psychic stuff. If it makes *you* more spiritual,
fine. But see it for what it is.
>
> >Duplicity
> requires one to escape self in any perceived aspect and many do with the
> physical.
>
> Duplicity is just one more (small) aspect of any one's available options.
> But there is really never any escaping ourselves, our experiences that we
> have come here to experience.
>
> Speaking of "reality", here is a quote from "Journey of Souls", by
> Michael Newton, pg. 91, which I was recently rereading:
Yes, everyone ran out and bought the book when Harold
recommended. He also said, of course, that althought
there was *some* truth in the book, it was very lower-
plane stuff, and the cult is much higher.
I wonder what Michael Newton thinks of the cult's
writings?
Oh...not the "innocent" stuff that Klemp is trying to
foist on the public. The *real* Eckankar...the Holey
Scriptures and Secret Discourses ... the stuff Klemp
wants de-emphasized...
Doubt if Newton knew much about the cult when he endorsed
a Klemp book. You know...that's common courtesy with
authors, you know. They don't always look closely at what
their recommending...
Sharon
P.S. Lots more stuff like Newton's out there, if you take the time
to look. More every day, and you don't need cult membership,
either. Remember...Twitch got it all at the public library. He
admitted it.
--
.
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
Jan4litsnd
> You're living a "reality" concocted by Twitch.
Has not a thing to do with Paul Twitchell, except for his help as a guide.
Everyone's many lives are a work in progress in time. Time being a great
unreality, what does that say about our 'lives'.
> He said it's "spiritual." It's not.
> It's psychic stuff. If it makes *you* more spiritual,
fine. But see it for what it is.
I see my Religion as very spiritual and of great worth. Of course! As you no
doubt feel your Catholicism has great spiritual worth to you.
> Yes, everyone ran out and bought the book when Harold
recommended. He also said, of course, that althought
there was *some* truth in the book, it was very lower-
plane stuff, and the cult is much higher.
Nope, that's not what he said at all. He said that the book was a very
accurate representation of the period in between lives and what we do at that
time. I believe the only thing he said that was depicted incorrectly were aura
colors.
Jan
Michael Wallace
Jan4litsnd <jan4l...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991123032402...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
>
>
> > Yes, everyone ran out and bought the book when Harold
> recommended. He also said, of course, that althought
> there was *some* truth in the book, it was very lower-
> plane stuff, and the cult is much higher.
>
>
> Nope, that's not what he said at all. He said that the book was a very
> accurate representation of the period in between lives and what we do at
that
> time. I believe the only thing he said that was depicted incorrectly were
aura
> colors.
>
>
My goodness...
Does this mean (gasp) ... Does this actually mean that Shazz got her facts
wrong? I am too stunned to comment further. But what does this mean... Why,
if this fact is wrong... So many other facts could be wrong? Given the
amount of posts she has sent in, and the length... Well I have roughly
calculated that at only one mistake per hundred lines (Not counting Typos)
then Shazz is running at 2,312 mistakes per week.
This casts everything I have ever believed in into doubt. I always believed
Sharon needed to see a good psychiatrist... Now I realise what she needs is
a good research agent ... Someone to help her get her facts straight.
Of course, Sharon is sort of typical of many of the detractor mind sets
(Even though she is new to it, she has picked it up remarkably well...) This
is to say if she saw Paul Twitchell or Harold Klemp holding a banana, she
would report that they were holding onto something that was yellow and bent!
Nothing like half the fact to convince yourself you have a brain!
Shazzz... Go get a job that suits you. Maybe a Radio Jock?
Wolfperson Shazz? <G>
Love
Michael
Rainforest
Would you believe it Michael, Shazzz has pened 1700 messages of absolute
nonsense nonsense.
In ECK,
george
Michael Wallace
Rainforest <rain...@escape.ca> wrote in message
news:383D59...@escape.ca...
> Michael Wallace wrote:
> >
>
> Would you believe it Michael, Shazzz has pened 1700 messages of absolute
> nonsense nonsense.
Is this 1700 different messages, or does this include the repeat spam?
Given the length, you wonder where she gets the time! But hey... If she is
happy being obsessive, it is fine by me!!
Love
Michael
Rainforest
1700 actual messages. Yep, it does make you wonder how she makes a
living hanging on the computer all the time. Make you wonder what the
money engine is behind it all.
In ECK,
George
sharon v.c.
>
>
> 1700 actual messages. Yep, it does make you wonder how she makes a
> living hanging on the computer all the time. Make you wonder what the
> money engine is behind it all.
> In ECK,
> George
I appreciate your loving concern for a struggling soul,
George. Perhaps you attention would best be focused on
eckorg, though. The money engine is obvious...but where
does that money go?
Since someone's so interested in counting
my posts, perhaps they'd like to make a chart of the times
posted? And an analysis of how many characters I've keyed
in...my highest typing test score was 110 wpm.
I've never looked...but how much do you eckies post? I
remember one of the tactics discussed in the Gestapo...
respond, even if it's just with a line or two...it makes
the detractors' posts scroll away faster on many newsgroup
readers, and people won't bother going back to read them.
I work, George. I make $6.50 an hour, which is a decent
wage in my area. I'm getting caught up on some things which
got behind when I was working only part time due some health
problems. I like my job.
My expenses: $215 trailer lot rent, includes sewer and 2x
weekly garbage pickup, even though some weeks I don't even
fill up one whole bag. It's high rent for this area, but
it's a nice little park. If we don't keep the lawn mowed,
the maintenance man does it and they charge us $10. Needless
to say, I keep my lawn mowed...$10 is too high!
Lights around $50, water $15, gas $8, phone $20. One major
credit card, with a low limit. One major store card. I have
car payments again...had 1.5 years off from them (I was paying
off a car I wrecked on black ice, with no collision insurance,
while paying off the one that replaced it that recently died.)
How much do you think a car with 157,000 miles on it costs,
George? My car payments are a little over $100 a month.
I'm behind on the trailer taxes, but they'll be paid within
a few months.
BTW...I paid more taxes than the cult last year. Really!
$10. My son and I each made less than $10,000, but he made
more than me so I couldn't claim him, even though he was still
in high school for most of the year. And I made too much for
him to claim me, even though more than half of my income was
from an education grant I'd earned as a VISTA member. Almost
half of the grant went towards grad school tuition, but I had
to drop out because of illness, and the program where you can
deduct tuition didn't start until the semester after I left.
The education grant was taxable.
I was sick, George. So, the last years haven't been easy. I
thank God for my son...who was proud and happy to be able to
take on a lot of the financial responsibility, even when he
was still in school. He'll make a fine husband and father one
day. I don't need much help from him now...he's also got a
nice litle savings account, too! Never thought the kid would
realize Big Macs add up...he prefers to cook his own hamburgers
now!
Oh...my daughter let me use her Fashion Bug charge a few months
ago, for an awesome clearance sale! I still owe her $20. I
needed some decent things for work...my "good" clothes were
sort of falling off...
You may not understand, but...it's hard accepting help from my
children. It's supposed to be the other way around, you know?
It feels so good when I tell David, I don't need anything this
week. He knows I miss TV, though...he told me to just take the
money out of his account & turn the cable back on, but...that's
not a necessity. I have to laugh...the kid bought himself some
new jeans, and a pair of shoes! On sale, of course...anyway,
it's just amazing seeing how he *did* learn a lot as a kid! I
wish he'd buy himself a new stereo...but he says that's not
important...
Anyway, George, I've always lived rather simply. I have
everything I need, and much more. I was raised with some very
simple sayings: "Take care of the pennies, and the dollars
will take care of themselves," and "God helps those who help
themselves," and . . . "Wait for a clearance sale."
You know, I remember when Amy was a baby...such a beautiful
little thing...and I was just a teenager. I knew it wasn't
going to be easy, and to be honest, I was a bit frightened at
times...but I remember one day, I was holding her...and a
Bible verse popped into my head..."Seek first the kingdom, and
all these things will be given to you..." or words to that
effect. Even though I hated the JWs, well...I loved the Bible.
I was reading *that* before I heard of the JWs, you know.
Anyway...about your "Monistat" postings or whatever...hey, I'll
betcha Twitch was a Jesuit in a past life!! Really!! And now,
well, he had a lot of bad karma. I don't think he learned,
though...I think he repeated the same mistakes in his most
recent incarnation. He wanted to join the Catholic Church, and
they rejected him...it was karma!! He had to pay back!!
But...he just didn't learn. He wrote the "Letters to a Chela"
discourses, and started a cult, didn't he?
Think about it...yes, Twitch kept playing around with those
occult things the Church says to stay away from...do you
wonder about his name? John Paul. But he dropped the John.
And now...I'm remembering the Pope's name...think about it!
Maybe he should've stuck with John Paul! <gg>
Which reminds me, somehow, even though he's old and in poor
health...the Pope's still saying regular Masses, isn't he?
Evidently Harold has started showing up at seminars, though.
That's good. His sheep deserve personal fleecing! <ggg>
Speaking of sheep, I'm still waiting to be shocked and
horrified...but to be honest, I think it would be hilarious
if the "secret" Jesuit papers included instructions on how
to focus on the widows of sheep farmers...hey, maybe that
would cut down on the child molesting....
Sharon
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
Rainforest
Well Sharon, thank you for your post, your life story was most
interesting. As for the Jesuit secret documents, you appear to be
psychically picking up on up and coming chapters which do exactly that.
That is, an in-depth focus on how to fleece rich widows and their
daughters, royalty etc. as well as keeping Catholics, Christians, scum,
rabble at bay, AND using the confessional as a spy network for the
Vatican. Boy, money, jewels, estates, real estate, castles, you name
it, flowed into the Vatican. You seem to be amused Sharon, (almost to
the point of 'Who Cares') at how the Vatican, in league with the Jesuits
have used and abused the memory and the name of Jesus to gain riches and
political power. So don't start laughing yet Sharon. Much more to come.
In ECK,
George
Michael Wallace
>
>
> "sharon v.c." wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 01:20:20 GMT Rainforest <rain...@escape.ca> wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > 1700 actual messages. Yep, it does make you wonder how she makes a
> > > living hanging on the computer all the time. Make you wonder what the
> > > money engine is behind it all.
> > >
> > >
> > horrified...but to be honest, I think it would be hilarious
> > if the "secret" Jesuit papers included instructions on how
> > to focus on the widows of sheep farmers...hey, maybe that
> > would cut down on the child molesting....
> >
>
> Well Sharon, thank you for your post, your life story was most
> interesting.
It certainly is ANOTHER post... My God.. and they are so long! Fortunately
my brain tells me "Don't go there" and I don't read them.
However, she writes nice poetry!
Jesuit Info should be interesting... Wonder what Shazz can say in comparison
to the "evil Cult" of Eckankar <VBG> ... She may even learn something about
a thing called "reality" but I seriously doubt it!! <G>
Love
Michael
Galuuk
stuff happens......all for reasons that we ourselves have created
It is the Law of Karma.....and it is just as exacting as the Law of Gravity,
only with a longer loop.
Joey
At the end of information there is knowledge.....
At the end of knowledge there is Wisdom.....
At the end of Wisdom there is Love.....
sharon v.c.
>
>
> Well Sharon, thank you for your post, your life story was most
> interesting.
The point is....there's nothing at all in my life that
should lead you to see all sorts of "hidden funding."
Once again...perhaps you should look closer at eckorg.
As for the Jesuit secret documents, you appear to be
> psychically picking up on up and coming chapters which do exactly that.
Nothing psychic about it at all, George. Heck, I read
about all this stuff even before I read "The Thorn Birds!"
<ggg> It's all history...a matter of public record.
>That is, an in-depth focus on how to fleece rich widows and their >daughters, royalty etc. as well as keeping Catholics, Christians, >scum, rabble at bay, AND using the confessional as a spy network for >the Vatican. Boy, money, jewels, estates, real estate, castles, you >name it, flowed into the Vatican.
That's right, George. And I'm sure there are still
plenty of people into that political crap in the Vatican.
BTW...even BEFORE I was sent to Catholic catechism, I'd
heard the stories of my grandfather drinking and going to
bordellos with the priests in Philadelphia...
So, because the Jesuits/Vatican have been doing these things
and it worked, since there are over a billion Catholics in
the world today, most totally ignoring the politics, do you
think that eckorg should be doing the same thing in the
1990's?
Twitch didn't have one single original idea...or genuine
spiritual experience....otherwise he wouldn't have tried to
recreate Catholicism and other cults using the same methods.
Does the fact that Catholicism *has* worked for so many,
for thousands of years, producing more spiritual giants
than I can list, excuse all that "bad" stuff? NO!!!!
However...plenty of people have been bringing the 'bad"
Catholic stuff out into daylight, and the Church is
straightening things out. Slowly, perhaps...took them
quite awhile to apologize for the Nazi stuff...but they're
doing it.
What's being done at your cult headquarters, George?
NOTHING!!! Still following twitch's plans, still trying to
whitewash & cover-up, still lying and deceiving, still...
INFILTRATING!!
>You seem to be amused Sharon, (almost to the point of 'Who Cares') at >how the Vatican, in league with the Jesuits
> have used and abused the memory and the name of Jesus to gain riches and political power. So don't start laughing yet Sharon. Much more to come.
I *am* amused, George. Aren't you equally as amused by my
posting of Letters to A Chela?
What you seem to fail to realize, George, is that Catholicism
isn't a tiny little cult like Eckankar, with a small handful
of willing ecksheep who actively participate in their own
brainwashing.
We're approaching a new Millenium, George. Isn't it time to
get rid of the crap EVERYWHERE???
Your cult started out what, 35 years ago? It's just beginning
to go where Christianity has already been...and Christianity
is evolving *so* nicely, really! God's time is different from
ours...
You see...right here, right now, although you try to deny it
and participate in Twitch's deification of himself, well...
it ain't gonna work like it did with Jesus, who I respect and
honor in my heart, whether or not he *did* exist...I hope he
did. For me, he's real. Very real. But...I don't worship
ANYONE.
Nothing and no one comes between me and God. I let it happen
with your cult, because I didn't know any better, and believed
the lies.
BTW...I'm taking off for awhile. Just popped into a few here
to tie up loose ends. Advent starts tonight. I'm using it
as an outer expression of my inner self...
Sharon
sharon v.c.
On 27 Nov 1999 13:50:01 GMT gal...@aol.com (Galuuk) wrote:
> Why is it that I find no pity for Sharon and her claimed plight???
You know, Joey...you are *such* a jerk...and I am continually
amazed...no, the amazement is long gone...
What claimed plight, Joey? Though it's quite obvious to
anyone else, who has retained the ability to see and think
clearly, anyone who's not eckanfogged....
Your values are quite screwed up, too...and probably were long
before you got into the cult.
>
> stuff happens......all for reasons that we ourselves have created
Yeah...I've created my life exactly as I wanted...with more joy,
beauty, freedom, and love than you can even dream of...
Your cult was the only thing I *didn't* create, Joey...it
violated my personal space, my freedom, on so many levels...and
it was a deliberate violation, from the vile evil cult that
Twitch created, and Klump perpetuates...
You, however, are a pawn in the Great Cosmic Chess Game. You
always have been, and I'm sure you always will be...
I *do* pity YOU, Joey...but the pity is mixed with a natural
human revulsion...
>
> It is the Law of Karma.....and it is just as exacting as the Law of Gravity, only with a longer loop.
The loop that's around your neck, Joey...the one you accepted,
hang on to, and keep tightening yourself...
You know, I'd call you my favorite insult, but...I wouldn't
even defile myself by using you for that purpose.
You are just...one big deluded NOTHING.
You're not even a good joke anymore.
Your only purpose in life is to show people what your cult
is REALLY about...and they run. Believe me, they run...
Sharon
Michael Wallace
Galuuk <gal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991127085001...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
> Why is it that I find no pity for Sharon and her claimed plight???
ALl I look for is her planned flight <G> ... But I don't know what this
"plight" is Joey... But I guess that is because I only ever flick through
her posts for the latest absurdity.
>
> stuff happens......all for reasons that we ourselves have created
Well... yeas. What I see is that the very reason for refusing this reasoning
is the same reason why we choose victimhood as a way of living. "The bad man
beat me up mummy" can easily become a pattern of attention seeking that is
so ingrained the person forgets they are even seeking attention.
>
> It is the Law of Karma.....and it is just as exacting as the Law of
Gravity,
> only with a longer loop.
You can appear to defeat the Law of Gravity in a plane, and just as surely,
if you are obsessive enough or driven enough you can appear to defeat the
Laws of Karma. So I simply wish the woman the best, even though I tend to
find her somewhat absurd in her behaviour.
Have you been reading George's post on the Jesuits? Interesting stuff.
Love
Michael
Rainforest
"sharon v.c." wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:32:28 GMT Rainforest <rain...@escape.ca> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Well Sharon, thank you for your post, your life story was most
> > interesting.
>
> The point is....there's nothing at all in my life that
> should lead you to see all sorts of "hidden funding."
That's still my opinion Sharon, (especially on 6.50/hr.) funding or
favor.
>
> Once again...perhaps you should look closer at eckorg.
ECKANKAR does not manipulate, it is left up to the Chela.
>
> As for the Jesuit secret documents, you appear to be
> > psychically picking up on up and coming chapters which do exactly that.
>
> Nothing psychic about it at all, George. Heck, I read
> about all this stuff even before I read "The Thorn Birds!"
Ya, sure Sharon, this is newly available information, I guess you were
in the Astral library then. <G>
>
> <ggg> It's all history...a matter of public record.
Only as of late Sharon <GGGGG)
>
>
>
> >That is, an in-depth focus on how to fleece rich widows and their >daughters, royalty etc. as well as keeping Catholics, Christians, >scum, rabble at bay, AND using the confessional as a spy network for >the Vatican. Boy, money, jewels, estates, real estate, castles, you >name it, flowed into the Vatican.
>
>
> That's right, George. And I'm sure there are still
> plenty of people into that political crap in the Vatican.
Then go get um or would it be to much of a back lash for you to tackle.
>
> BTW...even BEFORE I was sent to Catholic catechism, I'd
> heard the stories of my grandfather drinking and going to
> bordellos with the priests in Philadelphia...
Ya, right Im sure your grandfather confided in you about his sex life
Sharon.
>
> So, because the Jesuits/Vatican have been doing these things
> and it worked,
So because it worked, so it's O.K. then to condone what they have
done!?
> since there are over a billion Catholics in
> the world today,
And most of them don't even know why they are Catholics, they just are.
> most totally ignoring the politics,
Come on Sharon, get real, you don't really believe that, do you, you are
being political right know.
> do you
> think that eckorg should be doing the same thing in the
> 1990's?
ECKANKAR is always evolving, and has no criminal corruption like the
Catholics, so your statement that we are doing the same thing is totally
ridiculous. No comparison Sharon.
>
> Twitch didn't have one single original idea...or genuine
> spiritual experience....otherwise he wouldn't have tried to
> recreate Catholicism and other cults using the same methods.
Recreate Catholicism??? In your dreams Sharon. I challenge you to show
in this discussion group the similarities Between ECKANKAR and
Catholicism.
>
> Does the fact that Catholicism *has* worked for so many,
> for thousands of years,
Catholicism has not worked for "thousands of years Sharon.
> producing more spiritual giants
> than I can list, excuse all that "bad" stuff? NO!!!!
What spiritual giants Sharon, the Vatican had a monopoly, you could not
get an education unless you joined with them. They took the brightest
with their dogma, removed them from the gene pool, so they couldn't
procreate. This was one of the reasons for the dark ages.
>
> However...plenty of people have been bringing the 'bad"
> Catholic stuff out into daylight, and the Church is
> straightening things out.
So, because they are supposedly "straighten things out" according to
your inside pipeline, that they can just wash away the sins of their
brutality as though it never happened?
> Slowly, perhaps...took them
> quite awhile to apologize for the Nazi stuff...but they're
> doing it.
And they would not have even done that if it wasn't for Jewish
organizations embarrassing them and threatening financial sanctions,
world wide.
>
> What's being done at your cult headquarters, George?
Helping Soul's out of traps like yours.
>
> NOTHING!!! Still following twitch's plans, still trying to
> whitewash & cover-up, still lying and deceiving, still...
> INFILTRATING!!
ECKANKAR is always evolving into higher planes of reality, ECKANKAR is
not the same as it was in the 60's and has nothing criminal to apology
for Sharon.
>
>
> >You seem to be amused Sharon, (almost to the point of 'Who Cares') at >how the Vatican, in league with the Jesuits
> > have used and abused the memory and the name of Jesus to gain riches and political power. So don't start laughing yet Sharon. Much more to come.
>
> I *am* amused, George.
That figures, you find the founding fathers amusing and therefore can do
no wrong, because it worked, for them and is still working now.
> Aren't you equally as amused by my
> posting of Letters to A Chela?
My only comment Sahron, is that you are and have become an Arahata, and
are holding a Satsang for those that have a need to know.
Congratulations Sharon, you are raising the consciousness' of others and
taking on the reasons of why they don't know. Weather you know it or
not, your consciousness is being raised also. Well, I guess some souls
can only learn through trauma.
>
> What you seem to fail to realize, George, is that Catholicism
> isn't a tiny little cult like Eckankar,
Whether you know it or not Sharon, Catholicism is a cult from the
viewpoint of Christians. Catholics are not Christians and Christians are
not Catholics Sharon.
> with a small handful
> of willing ecksheep who actively participate in their own
> brainwashing.
Just because the Vatican has been successful in their Lust for converts,
doesn't mean that they are correct in how they go about doing it, with
"their" brainwashing, they are experts at it.
>
> We're approaching a new Millenium, George. Isn't it time to
> get rid of the crap EVERYWHERE???
And by that I presume you mean getting rid of all the opposition and
having a new inquisition Sharon?!
>
> Your cult started out what, 35 years ago?
Yes, in the outer.
> It's just beginning
> to go where Christianity has already been...and Christianity
> is evolving *so* nicely, really! God's time is different from
> ours...
Again, Catholics are not Christians Sharon, and ECKANKAR has not gone
where Catholics or Christians have gone. we have gone beyond that. That
is why ECKANKAR is so unique in it's self.
>
> You see...right here, right now, although you try to deny it
> and participate in Twitch's deification of himself, well...
> it ain't gonna work like it did with Jesus, who I respect and
> honor in my heart, whether or not he *did* exist...I hope he
> did. For me, he's real. Very real. But...I don't worship
> ANYONE.
NO ONE is trying or have eluded to being like Jesus Sharon.
Perhaps I will post for you some time the words of Jesus and what he
really said, and why the Vatican suppressed his words and omitted them
from the Bible. They are part of the dead Sea Scrolls.
>
> Nothing and no one comes between me and God.
Very good Sharon, if this is the case then stop trying to get between
the God of our choice, why does it have to be your God Jesus.
> I let it happen
> with your cult, because I didn't know any better, and believed
> the lies.
Confession because you have sinned is one thing but confession because
you have been given a sense of guilt for choosing the wrong path by
someone who has authority over you is in my book not a valid argument.
In ECK,
George
>
> BTW...I'm taking off for awhile. Just popped into a few here
> to tie up loose ends. Advent starts tonight. I'm using it
> as an outer expression of my inner self...
>
> Sharon
>
sharon v.c.
>
>
> "sharon v.c." wrote:
> >
> > The point is....there's nothing at all in my life that
> > should lead you to see all sorts of "hidden funding."
>
> That's still my opinion Sharon, (especially on 6.50/hr.) funding or
> favor.
I was quite open about the fact that my son helped out.
My living expenses are minimal, George.
I've never been into that money rat-race thing. I
prefer to live simply. Do you know how many people
in this country live on even less than I earn? And
even raise children on it?
> >
> > Once again...perhaps you should look closer at eckorg.
>
> ECKANKAR does not manipulate, it is left up to the Chela.
Bullshit. It manipulates, George. We don't need to
discuss it...the membership forms have been posted.
People can make up their own minds.
> > Nothing psychic about it at all, George. Heck, I read
> > about all this stuff even before I read "The Thorn Birds!"
>
> Ya, sure Sharon, this is newly available information, I guess you were in the Astral library then. <G>
The exact documents may be newly available, but...there's
plenty of history. That's why the documents themselves
aren't that important to me.
> >
> > <ggg> It's all history...a matter of public record.
>
> Only as of late Sharon <GGGGG)
C'mon, George....it's not a big secret at all. The
exact orders maybe weren't available, but what a lot
of things like that do is obvious. The whole Christian
convert heathens thing, the imperialistic British
Empire, the atrocities against Native Americans by the
"colonists" ....
> > That's right, George. And I'm sure there are still
> > plenty of people into that political crap in the Vatican.
>
> Then go get um or would it be to much of a back lash for you to tackle.
I like what I'm doing, George.
> >
> > BTW...even BEFORE I was sent to Catholic catechism, I'd
> > heard the stories of my grandfather drinking and going to
> > bordellos with the priests in Philadelphia...
>
> Ya, right Im sure your grandfather confided in you about his sex life Sharon.
No, but...my grandmother and her daughters discussed it
quite openly in the kitchen and family parties. As did
other family members, and friends of the family. It's
family history. My Aunt Julie, as a young teenager,
saw the Monsignor under a streetlight outside the bar,
exposing himself and urinating. I was taught at a very
young age...never leave your children alone with any man,
especially priests. Not even with their fathers. My
grandmother was taught that back in Poland. It's wise
advice. Read a newspaper sometime.
It wasn't until I was an adult, and an uncle started
writing down a lot of the family history, that I learned
my grandfather raped my grandmother. She was very young.
She got pregnant, and had to marry him. The Church said
so. She had to "confess" her "sin." She had to pay with
her life...and it was hell. I know she's in heaven now.
My grandfather gave a lot of money to the Church, and he
also supported a mistress in Maryland. My grandmother
took in laundry and cleaned rich people's houses, although
my grandfather earned a good living. His family didn't
exactly come first. There were nine children, plus two
who died in infancy.
The women in my family weren't exactly fond of the
Catholic Church, although one aunt and one uncle were
"good" Catholics and raised their children in the
Church. I was sent to catechism with my one cousin.
But actually, I don't remember ever seeing his mother,
my aunt, go to Church.
I loved my grandfather, though. He was good to us kids.
I hung out with him a lot...in his wood shop, working
with the bees, with the rabbits, in the garden...and I
was very close to my grandmother, too. Didn't understand
why they never talked...gave each other dirty looks a
lot, though. My grandfather gave orders, and my
grandmother obeyed. She was a simple peasant woman.
> > So, because the Jesuits/Vatican have been doing these things and it worked,
>
> So because it worked, so it's O.K. then to condone what they have
> done!?
I thought I said, No, it's not right to condone it.
And it's even less right to condone and blind yourself
to the fact that it's what Eckankar was started out to
be...the exact same rotten methods.
>
> > since there are over a billion Catholics in
> > the world today,
>
> And most of them don't even know why they are Catholics, they just are.
But...most of them appreciate being Catholic, George.
I see it and hear it every week.
>
> > most totally ignoring the politics,
>
> Come on Sharon, get real, you don't really believe that, do you, you are being political right know.
Well, then...maybe I am! I'm just doin' what I'm doin',
never realized it was political. I guess, though, that
consumer education can come under that label...
>
> ECKANKAR is always evolving, and has no criminal corruption like the
> Catholics, so your statement that we are doing the same thing is totally ridiculous. No comparison Sharon.
Eckankar "evolving" is bullshit, George. Eckspeak.
No, I guess since it wasn't taken to court, Darwingate
wasn't criminal corruption.
And paying off Gail wasn't criminal, either.
And your cult's leaders are STILL not accountable or
forthcoming about the finances, or anything else!!!
Actually...your cult is probably a hell of a lot WORSE,
and a lot worse FASTER, than Catholicism ever was or
ever will be...considering the size of the two, and the
time factors.
> >
> > Twitch didn't have one single original idea...or genuine
> > spiritual experience....otherwise he wouldn't have tried to recreate Catholicism and other cults using the same methods.
>
> Recreate Catholicism??? In your dreams Sharon. I challenge you to show in this discussion group the similarities Between ECKANKAR and
> Catholicism.
I'll wimp out on this one, George. I like to do things
spontaneously. As they come along, it's obvious. Compare
your Secret Jesuit Brainwashing & Power & Control Tactics
to Eckankult's Letters To A Chela -- except Twitch mixed in
deceptive stuff to try to disguise what he was doing. He
was just using more modern marketing methods.
How about the Virgin Birth thing, George?
> >
> > Does the fact that Catholicism *has* worked for so many,
> > for thousands of years,
>
> Catholicism has not worked for "thousands of years Sharon.
Yes it has, George!!
Hey, Twitch wanted to join!!! He couldn't even buy his
way into it!!!!! Unlike your cult...which has no
standards other than the desire to pay for a pseudo-
connection to God.
>
> > producing more spiritual giants
> > than I can list, excuse all that "bad" stuff? NO!!!!
>
> What spiritual giants Sharon, the Vatican had a monopoly, you could not get an education unless you joined with them. They took the brightest with their dogma, removed them from the gene pool, so they couldn't procreate. This was one of the reasons for the dark ages.
That's true, George. My mother was told not to read
the Bible, because she couldn't understand it. That's
one of the reasons why she started with the JWs...I was
reading the Bible the UMC gave me, and asking questions.
I'm not going to go through making a list, George. But...
Thomas Merton was one. Read Seven-Storey Mountain. And
his journals. They disprove your assertion here. Check
out Barnes & Noble. I'm not interested in arguing.
Now...your last two lines, you are really getting carried
away here, George. You're a sickie. Teresa of Avila and
St. John of the Cross may not have reproduced, but they
left a great legacy.
You know, it's sort of like why Oprah has chosen not to have
children. She's make a wonderful mom, you know! But...not
having children, many more can benefit....
> >
> > However...plenty of people have been bringing the 'bad"
> > Catholic stuff out into daylight, and the Church is
> > straightening things out.
>
> So, because they are supposedly "straighten things out" according to
> your inside pipeline, that they can just wash away the sins of their
> brutality as though it never happened?
Has the Church recently denied the Inquisition and all
that other stuff happened?
But...does Harold continue trying to whitewash your
cult's history? And make excuses for it? For example,
this bullshit from LTG III, the Word of the Klumpster:
"The writings of Paul Twitchell will be available for
years to come but they will always be secondary to the
message of the Living ECK Master of the times. This is
the edge that ECKANKAR has over Christianity. The
Sound and Light are embodied in the Mahanta, the Living
ECK Master. He--through the Sound and Light--can lead
Soul to victory over death and reincarnation.
The spiritual evolution of mankind goes ever forward. A
Second Initiate from Paul's day would be several notches
lower in consciousness than a Second Initiate in ECK
today. This spiral of evolution includes even the
Mahantaship, which is part of the unfinished creation of
SUGMAD. As hard as it may be to imagine, the newest
Mahanta always has a greater level of consciousness than
ever existed in a previous era of history."
Yeah, right. Klump can't totally erase the "Holey
Scriptures" but he's done some editing.
I'm not even going to comment on this crap. Those who
aren't yet eckanfogged can use their heads and think a
little bit about it. I could care less what you who
choose to keep sticking your heads in that brown yukky
eckanshit think.
>
> > Slowly, perhaps...took them
> > quite awhile to apologize for the Nazi stuff...but they're
> > doing it.
>
> And they would not have even done that if it wasn't for Jewish
> organizations embarrassing them and threatening financial sanctions, world wide.
Whatever it takes, George!! God moves in mysterious
ways...
You know what, George? You and I are *SO* much alike...
Except...you're totally WRONG!!!! <gggg>
> >
> > What's being done at your cult headquarters, George?
>
> Helping Soul's out of traps like yours.
Bullshit, George. I got OUT of your cult trap.
Eckanorg is busy raking in money, using Jesuit methods
which have "evolved" with the help of modern marketing
techniques.
> >
> > NOTHING!!! Still following twitch's plans, still trying to
> > whitewash & cover-up, still lying and deceiving, still...
> > INFILTRATING!!
>
> ECKANKAR is always evolving into higher planes of reality, ECKANKAR is not the same as it was in the 60's and has nothing criminal to apology for Sharon.
> >
Law and justice are two different things, George.
I'm talking about ethics and morality.
ECKANKAR is just becoming slicker at con artistry,
and calling it "evolving."
>
> That figures, you find the founding fathers amusing and therefore can do no wrong, because it worked, for them and is still working now.
No, George. I'm realistic. I find *you* amusing.
Especially when you're being a foaming-at-the-mouth
fundamentalist! <ggg>
To borrow from other threads, stop trying to put a
spin on what I'm saying.
>
> > Aren't you equally as amused by my
> > posting of Letters to A Chela?
>
> My only comment Sahron, is that you are and have become an Arahata, and are holding a Satsang for those that have a need to know.
As I've said, George...others cared enough to be here
and give the information your cult wants to hide. But...
what really proved it to me was the eckies here...
Don't you DARE use your filthy eckwords to describe me,
George.
I'm not using deceptive advertising & demanding membership
fees & everything, George. I'm simply given the information
I wish I'd had many years ago...the stuff that your cult
tries to hide and coverup, the things eckists don't discuss,
especially around newbies. The things your cult sues college
students over.
> Congratulations Sharon, you are raising the consciousness' of others and taking on the reasons of why they don't know. Weather you know it or not, your consciousness is being raised also. Well, I guess some souls can only learn through trauma.
> >
My consciousness is just fine again, since I'm out of the
cult, oh snide one.
> > What you seem to fail to realize, George, is that Catholicism
> > isn't a tiny little cult like Eckankar,
>
> Whether you know it or not Sharon, Catholicism is a cult from the
> viewpoint of Christians. Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics Sharon.
Gee, George...have you been listening to those Christian
fundie radio stations, too? <ggg>
Your definition of Christianity is, like the cultic fundie
groups, limited by your own cultic mindset.
Christianity is all-embracing, actually. Truth transcends
labels. Even the Catholic label, for those fundie
Catholics who are into that stuff. I don't know any of
them personally. I have friends in all paths, and we're
all in the same spiritual family -- the children of God.
Even some eckists aren't excluded, George.
>
> > with a small handful
> > of willing ecksheep who actively participate in their own
> > brainwashing.
>
> Just because the Vatican has been successful in their Lust for converts, doesn't mean that they are correct in how they go about doing it, with "their" brainwashing, they are experts at it.
Ditto, except replace "Vatican" with Eckorg...and insert
"is trying to be as successful as Catholicism" where
"has been successful" is.
> >
> > We're approaching a new Millenium, George. Isn't it time to get rid of the crap EVERYWHERE???
>
> And by that I presume you mean getting rid of all the opposition and
> having a new inquisition Sharon?!
No, George, that's what eckorg would like to do, and
IS doing in its own way. A.R.E., in its treatment of
"heretics," is as close to the inquisition as the law
allows in the 20th Century. Which is why the Org
requires that disclaimer everywhere...
What I would like to see is everyone dumping the labels
and bullshit, and just holding hands, and hugging, and
singing the Barney Song...
ECKANKAR right now is just a very little baby turd
floating in a big once-pure ocean with turds of all
sizes. As much as it would like to become as big a
turd as some of the others, well...as I said,
isn't it time to get rid of the crap?
We need a big compost pile. We don't need more little
turds drawing more flies, and spreading disease.
Twitch should have flushed.
> >
> > Your cult started out what, 35 years ago?
>
> Yes, in the outer.
Your cultic programming is showing, George. Twitch
stole stuff from everywhere, and put an ECKLABEL on
it. It's bullshit.
>
> > It's just beginning
> > to go where Christianity has already been...and Christianity is evolving *so* nicely, really! God's time is different from ours...
>
> Again, Catholics are not Christians Sharon, and ECKANKAR has not gone where Catholics or Christians have gone. we have gone beyond that. That is why ECKANKAR is so unique in it's self.
1. Catholics are Christians, George.
2. YOU, George, have PROVED that ECKANKAR is using
slimey Jesuit tactics updated for the modern
victim with slick marketing techniques.
Hey, George...do you realize, that according to your
teachings, it's likely that newbie 2nds in your cult
right now are your spiritual superiors, even though
you've been in it for 30 years are so? <giggle>
Really!! Harold says so!!!!
Your cult is certainly NOT unique, George. There are
plenty of other spin-offs and pseudo-masters out there.
> >
>
> NO ONE is trying or have eluded to being like Jesus Sharon.
Bullshit, George. Twitch started out claiming he was
the product of a virgin birth. Is that in the latest
edition of the Shariyat, or has Klemp edited it out?
Compare what Twitch, and even Klemp, say about themselves
to what the Bible says about Jesus, George. It's all
there. One of these days I'll sit down & do a comparison
study.
By the way, it's "alluded."
>
> Perhaps I will post for you some time the words of Jesus and what he
> really said, and why the Vatican suppressed his words and omitted them from the Bible. They are part of the dead Sea Scrolls.
You know, I remember reading a book about the Dead Sea
Scrolls the JWs gave my mother, when I was still in high
school. I also read the "Apocrypha" when I was a teen.
Those are the books in the Catholic Bible that the other
Bibles omit. I read the Douay version...
You know, I still get mixed up as to which version of the
Lord's Prayer which churches use...I'm starting to get that
clearer, though, since we say the "official" Lord's Prayer
at Mass, and the end part is tacked on "unofficially" later.
Hey...I liked the Gospel of St. Thomas...way back in the
80's...before I knew that perv Rajneesh used it!! I remember
another one...The Lost Scriptures or something, stuff about
Jesus as a little kid. Now...they were borrowed books so I
don't remember the exact title, but I read it. Was that
Dead Sea Scrolls stuff? I read a lot of gnostic stuff in
the early 90's...lots of Elaine Pagels, she's good. Got the
latest & supposedly best translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls
oh, fairly recently. Haven't read the whole thing yet.
George...don't waste your time posting all that stuff for
*my* benefit...but feel free to do it for others who are
interested. It's not new to me. I always forget the name
of that Council, Nicean or Athanasian or something? And
the year...early hundreds...
I like Gnostic teachings, George. And actually, well...
they're not incompatible with *real* Catholicism, either.
You know...if I chose to, I could argue quite well for the
very good reasons why the Church removed those things. Like
maybe...people weren't ready for it? Like...maybe they
should focus on other things first? And...gee, isn't it
amazing how what are basically "gnostic" things ARE still
freely available in Catholicism....in the experiences of
the "greats" of the Church? That's what it's all about,
George. For those who have the eyes to see...
> > Nothing and no one comes between me and God.
>
> Very good Sharon, if this is the case then stop trying to get between the God of our choice, why does it have to be your God Jesus.
George, I think you're trying to bait me here, with
the "your God Jesus." And...you know it. Jesus is
NOT my God. He's my friend, and a wise teacher, and
one hell of a better example than your laughable schizoid
LEM!!!!
Now...I am here basically posting for newbies and true
seekers, which may or may not include eckists. It is
YOUR choice to read and/or believe what I write. I am NOT
trying to get between you and your God, or the SOLE
CHANNEL for your "SUGMAD" .... BUT... this is NOT one of
the closed moderated closely watched ecklists.
This is a public forum. Why are you, and the other cult
members, so determined to NOT let people think for
themselves? Why do YOU and your fellow eckies plot behind
the scenes to try to prevent what former eckists have to
say? Why does ECKORG sue college kids?
YOU are trying to stop freedom of information, and free
speech.
But...and we've been through this before, George...I do
NOT wish to have "discussions" with you. It's the "Doug
Marman" technique, however...you're not as good as Doug
was. And....I'm not as mannerly as Lurk was. <gg>
So....this is the last of this discussion, George, since I
do NOT want to be in even a pseudo-situation like this.
Be happy where you are, and do what you've gotta do. And
I'll do the same from my side. For me, well...I'd rather
first of all, focus on my websites, and secondly, just
post embarrassing eckquotes, with or without my commentary,
and let any newbies here decide for themselves.
So...after this, discussion over!!! Okay? :o)
>
> >I let it happen with your cult, because I didn't know any better, and believed the lies.
>
> Confession because you have sinned is one thing but confession because you have been given a sense of guilt for choosing the wrong path by someone who has authority over you is in my book not a valid argument.
You know what, George? I realized something tonight,
about that guilt & confession thing. It's a good thing,
actually.
You see, children don't know any better. Sometimes, you
need to do certain things so that they develop a good
conscience. Now...okay, I'll agree that eckankar isn't
the only "path" that uses those fear & threat things...
BUT...eckankult uses it deliberately, on adults.
Now...exactly what you're saying here is unclear to me...
and no further clarification is necessary. But...
if you're referring to me choosing a wrong path, well...I
didn't choose your cult, George. Harold chose me. I never
heard of it, then had that dream, then found the books,
recognized Harold, and joined. The books said I was always
an eckist.
The books lied, George. Twitch set it up that way, using
both "inner" psychic con artistry with a phony "spiritual"
label. The eck "inner" is a lie and deception, too.
I have no sense of "guilt" about anything, George, because
I've done nothing wrong. Harold and your cult should feel
guilty, though...acknowledge and accept the responsibility
for the damage Twitch did, and what Klump is continuing.
You see, George, God's love for us is a "given." It's free,
not dependent on cult membership. The connection is THERE,
George. We just don't always know it.
And where there's love, no forgiveness is necessary, because
God understands. He created us, we're human, and He just
loves us unconditionally.
But...some people, well...they don't always know that. And
so the Church has the "outer" sacraments of Communion and
Reconciliation, and all of that. And...I enjoy them, and
am truly thankful that I can partake...
But tonight, well...the thought came to me in Mass, since
Confession/Reconciliation is after Saturday night Mass. You
see...generally, I more or less sort of have a constant
connection with God, unless I get really busy & tune out for
a moment...but, well...that's "Communion." And...hey, I'm
always quite aware of when I'm failing to live up to my own
standards, and sort of screwing up...I don't beat myself up
about it. God's a hell of a lot easier on me than I am!
It's sort of a constant process...I think, hey, God, I'm not
totally thrilled with this, I'd like to work on it...if you
think I need help, aim some extra Grace this way, but I'm
pretty sure I can deal with it...
However, I *do* honor the traditions of the Church, and those
rituals. I like rituals. But...as the Church teaches, the
conscience is the sole authority, however, one should be
very careful of one's conscience. And...I am.
Let me give you an example. Okay...one of my favorite "sins"
is....fornication. <giggle> Now, depending on the
individual sins, it can be a 'sin' or it can be the opposite.
Depends on the situation. Takes honesty, of course, and no
rationalization. But...although I *do* appreciate the high
spiritual meaning of it, well...there are many levels. Like
just a friendly & cuddly romp in the sack between two single
consenting happy adults, in an open & honest situation where
everybody's happy & there's no bullshit, not to mention, no
possibility of bringing an unplanned child into the world...
there are different levels of love, you know. Well...I
don't consider that a sin. It's a blessing, actually!! So,
I couldn't confess something like that. I could, however,
be perfectly honest about it, and say well, if I'm wrong,
then I'm sorry, and hope God will correct me in this one,
because then evidently my conscience is messed up...so I'm
sorry if I failed, but I think God even approves. In His
manifestation as the God/Goddess, of course! <ggg>
Of course, you're a fundie...I'm just using this as an
example of possibilities, of course.
Now, George, I don't mean to be rude....but please, end of
conversation, really...however, feel free to post both
Eckflow and Secret Jesuit Stuff.
Hey, I'll tell you something, if I haven't mentioned it
before! I like a challenge, you know. I *love* the hard
work & discipline of Catholicism!! That 20 minute thing,
well...it was so boring. Too easy. So was all the other
eckankrap. Well...I generally don't like fast food, either.
Except Chicken Fajitas. Wish they could invent a non-grain
tortilla wrapper, though. And...protein that tastes like
red & green peppers. But...I know what happens. I have no
problem dealing with the effects of my actions.
Have a good ... whatever!!
Sharon
Rainforest
Boy, was that was a long post or what! Are you sure you got everything
in you wanted to!? <G>, 10 pages long again Sharon. Did you hit your
funny bone or something. Sharon, Sharon, get thee to a Shroomery <VBG>
In ECK,
George
Jan4litsnd
Following are a few comments on some snippets of Sharon's 29714 bytes of
abusive, name-calling--
> Eckanorg is busy raking in money, using Jesuit methods
which have "evolved" with the help of modern marketing
techniques.
Using phrases such as, "raking in money" does not apply to ECKANKAR. There has
been a strangely funny (to me) issue ongoing in this ng about the $130 per year
donation request for membership (or none, if one cannot afford it), but, let's
get real, $130--raking in money??? That may cover some costs of printing,
mailings, etc., and there might be something left over for what Sharon unkindly
calls "modern marketing techniques"--which is an occasional ad which informs
the public of where to go for information, such as a free booklet about
ECKANKAR. The Mormons are all over television with ads for their free book
explaining Mormonism, much more so than ECKANKAR. That is only one example
that religions are entitled to be able to be free in our socieity to try to
inform others of their existence by our modern methods using tv or any other
legal means as they so choose. Also, just one more example of the smear
campaign of Sharon to insinuate there is something wrong with that.
>> > Aren't you equally as amused by my
>> > posting of Letters to A Chela?
>>
>> My only comment Sahron, is that you are and have become an Arahata, and are
holding a Satsang for those that have a need to know.
> As I've said, George...others cared enough to be here
and give the information your cult wants to hide. But...
what really proved it to me was the eckies here...
> Don't you DARE use your filthy eckwords to describe me,
George.
Our religion's words are not filthy. Just as your Catholic words such as,
communion, Pope, Catechism, etc., are not filthy. Please don't use your
Sharon-cult-made-up words on our Religion.
Interestingly, I agree with George, it's nice to have ECKANKAR writings posted
in here.
> I'm not using deceptive advertising & demanding membership
fees & everything, George. I'm simply given the information
I wish I'd had many years ago...the stuff that your cult
tries to hide and coverup, the things eckists don't discuss,
especially around newbies. The things your cult sues college
students over.
ECKANKAR does not use deceptive advertising, does not "demand" membership fees.
ECKANKAR is a religion, it is not a "cult".
> George, I think you're trying to bait me here, with
the "your God Jesus." And...you know it. Jesus is
NOT my God. He's my friend, and a wise teacher, and
one hell of a better example than your laughable schizoid
LEM!!!!
The Living ECK Master to ECKists is someone we love and admire, who is with us
as our Inner Master and teacher, who is our mentor and advisor, and someone who
helps us in all aspects of our lives. Would you be happy with our calling your
Pope names? We don't do that. Ick.
> Now...I am here basically posting for newbies and true
seekers, which may or may not include eckists. It is
YOUR choice to read and/or believe what I write. I am NOT
trying to get between you and your God, or the SOLE
CHANNEL for your "SUGMAD" .... BUT... this is NOT one of
the closed moderated closely watched ecklists.
> This is a public forum. Why are you, and the other cult
members, so determined to NOT let people think for
themselves? Why do YOU and your fellow eckies plot behind
the scenes to try to prevent what former eckists have to
say? Why does ECKORG sue college kids?
I don't know why any other ECKist comes here, but I come here because you are
here telling others untrue things about my religion, which I cherish, and of
course I stand up and say the opposite when I hear someone saying untruths
about it.
Btw, I've heard you say this numerous times in this ng that some are plotting
behind the scenes about what goes on in here. The discussion group to which you
refer disbanded long ago, and was only a short discussion centering on
suggestions for Nathan's ongoing posts to newcomers.
Not sure of any particulars of something of twenty five or more years ago, and
perhaps the ECKANKAR of today would not do so, however, I would say, in
general, if someone publishes untruths, in our country, anyone has the right to
sue.
> Hey, I'll tell you something, if I haven't mentioned it
before! I like a challenge, you know. I *love* the hard
work & discipline of Catholicism!! That 20 minute thing,
well...it was so boring. Too easy. So was all the other
eckankrap. Well...I generally don't like fast food, either.
Except Chicken Fajitas. Wish they could invent a non-grain
tortilla wrapper, though. And...protein that tastes like
red & green peppers. But...I know what happens. I have no
problem dealing with the effects of my actions.
Perhaps the reason you think ECKANKAR would not work is because you are
unwilling to put in the work that ECKANKAR requires to see results. Didn't you
say you didn't do the Spiritual Exercises. (I for one still don't believe you
were a fifteen year ECKist).
Jan
Windy
in you wanted to!? <G>, 10 pages long again Sharon. Did you hit your
funny bone or something. Sharon, Sharon, get thee to a Shroomery <VBG>
In ECK,
George
You know how it is when you lie. You have to keep adding stuff to it to
make it look like it wasn't a lie in the first place. What a tangled web
we weave and all that stuff.
I still say, she should write for Monty Python.
Windy
>
> Perhaps the reason you think ECKANKAR would not work is because you are
> unwilling to put in the work that ECKANKAR requires to see results. Didn't you
> say you didn't do the Spiritual Exercises. (I for one still don't believe you
> were a fifteen year ECKist).
>
Sharon is a good example of why people should give a donation. She
didn't think Eckankar was important enough to give up her money she
spent on cigarettes. She would rather write a letter and lick the stamp,
maybe even a borrowed stamp, who knows. If she was in Eckankar for 15
years and did not care enough about the financial contributions
necessary to further the education of those involved, then I think
Eckankar was not a part of her life, or a very little part of it.
The Discourses were probably read over coffee and a cigarette. She said
in the past that she used the discourses for coasters to keep her coffee
table clean.
Who knows what it means to belong to Eckankar for her. Anyone can get
discourses for free if they want them. That doesn't mean they are
Eckists and practice any of the teachings.
Just as she now says the Misselettes are free. Someone has to buy them.
They are to be kept in the pew when you leave. Someone is misinformed or
just doesn't care.
Now she claims she is a participant in the Catholic faith because she
likes to sing.
Whatever. Its supper-time and I think I will look forward to the
spaghetti my sweet husband made for us.
Windy
Michael Wallace
>
>
> Boy, was that was a long post or what! Are you sure you got everything
> in you wanted to!?
Do you actually read these George?
Good luck... Don't wear out the brain!! <G>
Love
Michael
Windy
>
> >
> > Sharon is a good example of why people should give a donation. She
> > didn't think Eckankar was important enough to give up her money she
> > spent on cigarettes. She would rather write a letter and lick the stamp,
> > maybe even a borrowed stamp, who knows. If she was in Eckankar for 15
> > years and did not care enough about the financial contributions
> > necessary to further the education of those involved, then I think
> > Eckankar was not a part of her life, or a very little part of it.
> > The Discourses were probably read over coffee and a cigarette. She said
> > in the past that she used the discourses for coasters to keep her coffee
> > table clean.
> > Who knows what it means to belong to Eckankar for her. Anyone can get
> > discourses for free if they want them. That doesn't mean they are
> > Eckists and practice any of the teachings.
> > Just as she now says the Misselettes are free. Someone has to buy them.
> > They are to be kept in the pew when you leave. Someone is misinformed or
> > just doesn't care.
> > Now she claims she is a participant in the Catholic faith because she
> > likes to sing.
> > Whatever. Its supper-time and I think I will look forward to the
> > spaghetti my sweet husband made for us.
> > Windy
>
> I posted before. You have clearly proven my point that all you Eckies are far from
> the Divine Light And Sound of the ECK. You are all angry little pathetic creeps. So
> Bob is cooking again? What's the matter, sick of lamb chops? ?Are you and your "sweet
> husband" going to the marriage counsellor tonight after dinner?
>
> CB
You could probably benefit from some counselling yourself. Seems you
have low self-esteem demonstrated by your desire to try to castrate
every other male in this forum.
Actually, I am sick of turkey, Turkey.
Sharon
You know, CB, after visiting my favorite Calvin & Hobbes site, I
popped in here to see if you or anyone else other than eckborg had
posted -- not surprised to see Rita still goin' at it!
Yes, I was in the cult for 15 years, and until the very end, when
I became ill, I paid. When I was short over the years, I'd sometimes
have to "lapse" for a few months until I had the money.
And, there were several times when I'd even send in extra as a general
donation...and just tol them to use my small contribution where it was
needed most. And....the donations came from my heart. The
"teachings" said we could also pay through service....or suffering.
Well...I felt I'd received so much, and I was always one for
sharing....I shared a lot. Joyfully, from my heart. I'd joke about
the "suffering" part, too....we all have rough times and stuff...so that
was okay. Karma, whatever....but I never felt like I was suffering. I
was grateful for the gift of life, which isn't always perfect....
You see, Eckankar lied. It "teaches" that its "eck" *IS*
life. Well...it's not. This cult tries to STEAL life, and take credit
for it!!!! That's what Twitch did, with the spiritual truths he stole
and plagiarized from elsewhere. Well, I'll tell you....I left the
cult, but....I have my life back. And it's sooooo good! It's mine,
as it was before the cult jumped in and tried to steal it from me.
I've never had a coffee table, and I don't use coasters. I'm
sure I've joked, though, about spilling coffee on everything,
discourses included. By the way, studying my discourses, well...
that was always sort of "holy" for me.
Oh...I asked if it was all right to take missalettes home,
because I like to read them, sort of to start celebrating Mass ahead of
time....and often, since there are daily morning masses but I
can't go, I sort of do the daily mass in my heart, here at home, with
the help of the missalette.
On the tables in the foyer at church, they offer little
"Living Faith" booklets, they're quarterly publications with daily
meditations. I love them. They're 50 cents. In them, you can write to
the company for a personal subscription, or bulk copies. They're not
"secret" by the way...no warnings about not letting anyone else see
them....the daily thoughts & meditations & scriptures are incredibly
beautiful. Just one little booklet contains more spiritual truth than
my pile of 15 years' worth of eckankult's secret holy discourses.
You know...that "connection" I had, that I got BEFORE the cult
and thought the cult explained it, well....as I've said, it's not the
cult. The cult lies.
Oh...recent "freebies" at the Church are wonderful little
Advent meditation booklets, one for adults, and another for familes
with children. No requests for donations for them. But I know the
Parish has to pay...I toss money in the basket. Not out of guilt.
Because I want to. Father Neil did thank the local funeral home at
Mass, though, for sponsoring the Parish calendar....they're so nice!
I think it's the funeral home's way of "giving back" -- since there have
been 38 deaths in the Parish so far this year! <ggg>
You know, I don't have to give a cent....and there's no guard
standing over the "Living Faiths" to make sure you drop your 50 cents in
the basket. But...I give. Because I like to. I don't have
to do anything, I don't have to contribute, I didn't have to join the
Parish...I can go to Mass anytime, and participate fully in all the
Sacraments. They don't ask for ID cards at the door.
You know....looking back on the last almost-year, I'm sure
I've tossed a lot more in the basket than I would have paid for my
eckandiscourses. And I'm quite happy about it...hope to be able
to give more as time goes on....because I know where my money's going.
The Church does a lot of good work, and has so many opportunities for
joyful service!
I've been watching & listening there for a long time, along
with just using the Church as sort og a place for my own personal
"outer" expression of my relationship with God. Wish I'd had the
opportunity to do that before I got mixed up with the cult. Because
the longer I was in it, well....the more of those funny feelings I got
that something wasn't quite right. I don't feel that about
Catholicism....but I'm not blinding myself about it either. It's just
that, well....there is NO "Holy Spirit* in ECKANKAR. (Good grief,
aren't those all-caps ridiculous?) There is TONS of it in
the Catholic Church....and I'll tell you....there's no possible way
that I can ever give back as much as I've received there since last
January. But....I'll try. From my heart. Because I want
to....
The cult, well...the only choice they gave me was...keep up your
membership, or you have to keep coming back and suffering until you
submit...they said whether I knew it or not, I'd always been an
eckist...the cult LIED!!!
I don't *have* to be in the Catholic Church, or anywhere....hey,
I'm just fine even without any joyful naked worshipping in the woods!
<ggg> But, well....you just can't keep it all inside, you know?
Hey, CB, you know.....this is a REALLY stinky place to hang out,
especially at this most joyful time of year! And you know....it sort
of reminds me of Judaism, of course....that "waiting for
the Messiah" is a neat thing....like Advent! And you know, I think
it's nice to keep that feeling all the time....like the "Second
Coming." I don't think it's a physical thing at all, you
know. I think it's just something to help people, you know....to keep
their minds on what's important--- like "seek first the Kingdom" ....
to always be in a state of joyful expectation for the
next moment of life, with the awareness of the Presence of God in our
hearts. We can both fully appreciate appreciate the Presence while
it's there, too, and still anticipate the next moment, because it's
something that's constantly alive, and growing, and renewing
Itself....do you know what I mean?
Anyway.....geez, Windy *IS* just a dried-up miserable bitch,
isn't she? Like a female Nathan!
C'mon....let's get outta here & go hang some sparkly lights &
tinsel & stuff!!! Wouldn't baby Jesus have just LOVED a Christmas
Tree!! Of course, they didn't have electricity back then....
((((((((((((((((BIG TWINKLY HUGS!!!!!!!))))))))))))
Love,
Sharon
P.S. HEY JOE!! Why don't you take a break? You've been working SO
hard for SO long!! Hey, we all care about the poor people who might get
trapped here, but you know....I can just post URLs. I think I'll do
that....as a Christmas present.....just post & run.....<giggle>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Windy
Advent meditation booklets, one for adults, and another for familes
with children. No requests for donations for them. But I know the
Parish has to pay...I toss money in the basket. Not out of guilt.
Because I want to. Father Neil did thank the local funeral home at
Mass, though, for sponsoring the Parish calendar....they're so nice!
I think it's the funeral home's way of "giving back" -- since there have
been 38 deaths in the Parish so far this year! <ggg>
they have the picture of the body being lowered into the grave on the
calendar?
You know Sharon, the older you get, the better you were. Every post you
make about when you were an Eckist adds a little more glitter to the
halo on your head. Pretty soon, you'll be saying you gave all your
earnings to Eckankar. You are such a phony. Why not go play on the
Catholic newsgroup. That's where you'll collect browny points.
Michael Wallace
Windy <saxm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3842A9...@bellsouth.net...
> CB wrote:
> >
> > You are all angry little pathetic creeps. So
> > Bob is cooking again? What's the matter, sick of lamb chops? ?Are you
and your "sweet
> > husband" going to the marriage counsellor tonight after dinner?
>
> have low self-esteem demonstrated by your desire to try to castrate
> every other male in this forum.
> Actually, I am sick of turkey, Turkey.
He is just Demi Gogging Windy...
I guess it improves the Head Space to just get angry... To step out into the
wild world of CyberSpace and call up the invectitude like a Demi God
summoning the wandering Detractors to the fold. Zap Whammo with the
pixels... Shattering the lesser mrotals to the dust of insecurity where they
belong!!!
It is a little like the bull elephant who bellows, trying to get some
attention, marking his territory and calling in his cows. Think primitive
and you will get it... And hey... Some girls like that sort of thing.
The one thing Sri Alf hates most of all are people who get the smarts over
him, or people he PERCIEVES to get the smarts over him. He just hates that,
and gets all angry inside. The other thing he hates is when one of his flock
wander away, tired of the battle, and that causes him to bellow and fuss a
lot as well. He is the stayer, the perpetual angry one who rages against the
machine and has never let go the angst and determination that is his right,
according to the First Amendment ... But really ... Let's look more closely
at the Fifth ! <G>
Yet on the other side of this MPD composite there is the really intellegent,
funny guy who is a barrel of laughs and who you would love to sit and talk
with for hours.
But in all the various composites, there beats a heart. Of course, in this
case it is made of stone... But a heart nether-the-less!! <G>
love
Michael
>
w...@achilles.net
>
>Are you and your "sweet
> husband" going to the marriage counsellor tonight after dinner?
So how's the musical career going?
Bruce
Windy
>
> CB
That;s ok, Cb, there are no sensory devices available to smell through
the net.
Or was it a burp?
Jan4litsnd
>And, there were several times when I'd even send in extra as a general
donation...and just tol them to use my small contribution where it was
needed most. And....the donations came from my heart. The
"teachings" said we could also pay through service....or suffering.
Your interpretation that you would ever pay for teachings through 'suffering'
is not correct, imo.
>Well...I felt I'd received so much, and I was always one for
sharing....I shared a lot. Joyfully, from my heart. I'd joke about
the "suffering" part, too....we all have rough times and stuff...so that
was okay. Karma, whatever....but I never felt like I was suffering. I
was grateful for the gift of life, which isn't always perfect....
> You see, Eckankar lied. It "teaches" that its "eck" *IS*
life. Well...it's not.
ECKANKAR teaches that the word ECK means SPIRIT. That is our word for Spirit,
so it makes sense that ECK (Spirit) is life.
>This cult tries to STEAL life, and take credit
for it!!!! That's what Twitch did, with the spiritual truths he stole
and plagiarized from elsewhere.
ECKANKAR does not try "to STEAL life, and take credit for it". Paul Twitchell
didn't steal spiritual truths, as you cannot steal spiritual truths, they are
for ALL. He gathered from all areas of life the spiritual truths, in order to
put them in one place, easy to find, without having to go to study in India,
without having to become a vegetarian, etc. Even without having to go to
confession or church. Just because someone writes down spiritual truths in a
book, does not mean they have a right to hold those spiritual truths as their
own ONLY.
>Well, I'll tell you....I left the
cult, but....I have my life back. And it's sooooo good! It's mine,
as it was before the cult jumped in and tried to steal it from me.
I am glad you left as it was what you wished to do, however, ECKANKAR doesn't
steal life. Imo, when one is a member of ECKANKAR, they have total freedom to
live their life, even more so than the Catholic Religion you now practice, as
it doesn't interfere in any way with one's outer life in this physical world.
I.e., doesn't force one to marry within the religion, doesn't force one to stay
in a marriage because divorce is not allowed, doesn't force one to bear
children and not use contraceptive devices, doesn't force one to give 10% of
one's wages to the church, doesn't force one to confess ones sins--(or fear
damnation and hell). One's man's violations of freedoms is another man's chosen
and preferred way of life. That's why we have this freedom of choice of
religion. What may be good and holy for you, is quite different from those
things which are good and holy for me.
> On the tables in the foyer at church, they offer little
"Living Faith" booklets, they're quarterly publications with daily
meditations. I love them. They're 50 cents. In them, you can write to
the company for a personal subscription, or bulk copies. They're not
"secret" by the way...no warnings about not letting anyone else see
them....the daily thoughts & meditations & scriptures are incredibly
beautiful. Just one little booklet contains more spiritual truth than
my pile of 15 years' worth of eckankult's secret holy discourses.
There is no eckankult in ECKANKAR, thank goodness!
> You know...that "connection" I had, that I got BEFORE the cult
and thought the cult explained it, well....as I've said, it's not the
cult. The cult lies.
Whew, then I'm glad I am a member of 'ECKANKAR'.
> You know....looking back on the last almost-year, I'm sure
I've tossed a lot more in the basket than I would have paid for my
eckandiscourses. And I'm quite happy about it...hope to be able
to give more as time goes on....because I know where my money's going.
The Church does a lot of good work, and has so many opportunities for
joyful service!
I'm glad you're happy. I like a lot of the Christmas funds and collections, and
especially like the Red Cross. And, my own family, that's important. Another
favorite was going with our daughter down to help feed the homeless at a
shelter as she was growing up.
> I've been watching & listening there for a long time, along
with just using the Church as sort og a place for my own personal
"outer" expression of my relationship with God. Wish I'd had the
opportunity to do that before I got mixed up with the cult. Because
the longer I was in it, well....the more of those funny feelings I got
that something wasn't quite right. I don't feel that about
Catholicism....but I'm not blinding myself about it either.
Gee, that's good, Sharon, that you found the religion of your choice. I feel
that way about Catholicism, it didn't sit well with me, so thank goodness I've
been able to be an ECKist for much of my life.
> It's just that, well....there is NO "Holy Spirit* in ECKANKAR. (Good
grief, aren't those all-caps ridiculous?) There is TONS of it in
the Catholic Church....and I'll tell you....there's no possible way
that I can ever give back as much as I've received there since last
January. But....I'll try. From my heart. Because I want
to....
Oh, but isn't it interesting how we each relate to the religion of our choice.
I feel that ECKANKAR has sooo much of the Holy Spirit that I can feel, and BE a
part of! Sometimes, just opening an ECKANKAR book, the Sound Current and the
Light are so strong...and doing the Spiritual Exercises helps so much to focus
on God and Spirit and feel IT and listen to IT. Btw, if you don't want to use
the caps for ECKANKAR, then by all means, you're not an ECKist, so use all
lower case letters if you'd like.
> The cult, well...the only choice they gave me was...keep up your
membership, or you have to keep coming back and suffering until you
submit...they said whether I knew it or not, I'd always been an eckist...the
cult LIED!!!
The nicest thing is that when one doesn't believe in a religion anymore, then
they don't need to believe any of the tenets. Like for me, when I stopped
attending Catholic Church, I didn't any longer need to worry about hell and
things like that. Today, I was listening to a religion broadcast on the radio,
and it was interesting when they talked about the controversy that happened
back in, I think it was the fifth century, about whether Mary was the mother of
God, or just the mother of Jesus. (They also had the big controversy back then
about whether to take reincarnation out of the Bible. And so they took it
out). These things were based on their beliefs. They picked and chose, and
moved on, changing things as they went along.
> I don't *have* to be in the Catholic Church, or anywhere....hey,
I'm just fine even without any joyful naked worshipping in the woods!
<ggg> But, well....you just can't keep it all inside, you know?
I agree. You don't need to be in any building to have a connection with the
Holy Spirit, I believe we can all contact and feel the connection with the Holy
Spirit for ourselves.
> Hey, CB, you know.....this is a REALLY stinky place to hang out,
especially at this most joyful time of year!
I agree! But it's stinky because some people are claiming other people's
religion stinks. Religion fighting--physical, mental, or emotional, stinks.
> And you know....it sort
of reminds me of Judaism, of course....that "waiting for
the Messiah" is a neat thing....like Advent! And you know, I think
it's nice to keep that feeling all the time....like the "Second
Coming." I don't think it's a physical thing at all, you
know. I think it's just something to help people, you know....to keep
their minds on what's important--- like "seek first the Kingdom" ....
to always be in a state of joyful expectation for the
next moment of life, with the awareness of the Presence of God in our hearts.
Sounds good to me. Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven...good in practice, too.
To seek God (and not worry about the rest of the world's preferred ways of
seeking of God).
>We can both fully appreciate appreciate the Presence while
it's there, too, and still anticipate the next moment, because it's
something that's constantly alive, and growing, and renewing
Itself....do you know what I mean?
Yes. The presence of God and eternity are always with us, always a part of us.
:*)
Oops...............
> Anyway.....geez, Windy *IS* just a dried-up miserable bitch,
isn't she? Like a female Nathan!
> C'mon....let's get outta here & go hang some sparkly lights &
tinsel & stuff!!! Wouldn't baby Jesus have just LOVED a Christmas
Tree!! Of course, they didn't have electricity back then....
>((((((((((((((((BIG TWINKLY HUGS!!!!!!!))))))))))))
> Love,
> Sharon
but not for Windy and Nathan (or Jan)?
Jan
w...@achilles.net
>
> w...@achilles.net wrote:
>
> > CB wrote:
> > >
> > >Are you and your "sweet
> > > husband" going to the marriage counsellor tonight after dinner?
> >
> > So how's the musical career going?
> >
> > Bruce
>
> Excuse me?
>
> CB
Sorry; I thought I read on an earlier thread that you were a musician.
Please disregard.
Bruce
Michael Wallace
CB <cultb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3843BB8F...@hotmail.com...
>
>
> w...@achilles.net wrote:
>
> > CB wrote:
> > >
> > >Are you and your "sweet
> > > husband" going to the marriage counsellor tonight after dinner?
> >
> > So how's the musical career going?
> >
>
>
Why... What did you do wrong? But now I think of it... Don't answer that!
Maybe Bruce is talking about your Song and Dance here at a.r.e. ??? <G>
Love
Michael
Abdullah M. Mohammed
fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
Windy wrote:
> Jan4litsnd wrote:
> >
>
> > Perhaps the reason you think ECKANKAR would not work is because you are
> > unwilling to put in the work that ECKANKAR requires to see results. Didn't you
> > say you didn't do the Spiritual Exercises. (I for one still don't believe you
> > were a fifteen year ECKist).
> >
len
> Further the education of WHO involved? More like line the pockets of
Eckankar
> fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
I am sending this response of yours to Buffalo State University, consider
this done. I will find someone at BSU to listen.
You have crossed over the line of decency.
Abdullah M. Mohammed <moha...@buffalostate.deu> wrote in message
news:384AA742...@buffalostate.deu...
> Further the education of WHO involved? More like line the pockets of
Eckankar
> fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
>
> Windy wrote:
>
> > Jan4litsnd wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > Perhaps the reason you think ECKANKAR would not work is because you
are
> > > unwilling to put in the work that ECKANKAR requires to see results.
Didn't you
> > > say you didn't do the Spiritual Exercises. (I for one still don't
believe you
> > > were a fifteen year ECKist).
> > >
Michael Wallace
len <campbell-...@tandem.com> wrote in message
news:82ea4d$c07$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com...
> Abdullah replies:
>
> > Further the education of WHO involved? More like line the pockets of
> Eckankar
> > fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
>
> I am sending this response of yours to Buffalo State University, consider
> this done. I will find someone at BSU to listen.
>
> You have crossed over the line of decency.
As always with a certain brand of Detractor, when they have no argument they
seem to believe abuse will set the worlds to right inside themselves.
Somehow there seems this odd belief that they are powerful and can change
the course of human eveolution with a few swear words.
However this is mild compared to some who send Black Magic Curses and the
rest to private boxes. Some Detractors even support this form of behaviour,
did you know?
Anyway... Water of the duck's back is the best description I can use for the
posts from fruitcakes like Abdullah...
Love
Michael
Nathan Zafran
Rogers) wrote:
>Now THIS is advanced spiritual behavior--seeking revenge.
Coming from one who is an expert on advanced spiritual behaviour!
(The joke of the century)
>
>If somebody thinks you've crossed over some line, should they complain to
>Compaq, or you? Is this really going to solve anything?
Does anything David D. Rogers says ever solve anything?
The Invincible Eradicator of Injustice (and mean raquetball player)
David D. Rogers
wrote:
: Abdullah replies:
:
: > Further the education of WHO involved? More like line the pockets of
: Eckankar
: > fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
:
: I am sending this response of yours to Buffalo State University, consider
: this done. I will find someone at BSU to listen.
:
: You have crossed over the line of decency.
Now THIS is advanced spiritual behavior--seeking revenge.
If somebody thinks you've crossed over some line, should they complain to
Compaq, or you? Is this really going to solve anything?
Peace,
<> David
-----------
"They were delightful... I mean, if they're not eating you, they're very
pleasant people."
--James Michener on the cannibals of New Hebrides
Have you visited http://members.xoom.com/ptrial today?
Remove "spamjam." from address to reply.
David D. Rogers
: On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:04:42 GMT, dro...@spamjam.pobox.com (David D.
: Rogers) wrote:
: >Now THIS is advanced spiritual behavior--seeking revenge.
:
: Coming from one who is an expert on advanced spiritual behaviour!
:
: (The joke of the century)
This coming from someone of your own self-tarnished reputation?
: >
: >If somebody thinks you've crossed over some line, should they complain to
: >Compaq, or you? Is this really going to solve anything?
:
: Does anything David D. Rogers says ever solve anything?
:
:
:
:
:
:
: The Invincible Eradicator of Injustice (and mean raquetball player)
David D. Rogers
: On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:04:42 GMT, dro...@spamjam.pobox.com (David D.
: Rogers) wrote:
: >Now THIS is advanced spiritual behavior--seeking revenge.
:
: Coming from one who is an expert on advanced spiritual behaviour!
:
: (The joke of the century)
:
:
:
: >
: >If somebody thinks you've crossed over some line, should they complain to
: >Compaq, or you? Is this really going to solve anything?
:
: Does anything David D. Rogers says ever solve anything?
Given that most people will usually use the best method to get their point
accross, I can only conclude that you though that attacking me personally
was the best way to get his point accross. What that point was, I'm not
really sure. What was that point?
Nathan Zafran
Rogers) wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:10:35 GMT, ezaf...@home.com (Nathan Zafran) wrote:
>:
>: Does anything David D. Rogers says ever solve anything?
>
>Given that most people will usually use the best method to get their point
>accross, I can only conclude that you though that attacking me personally
>was the best way to get his point accross. What that point was, I'm not
>really sure. What was that point?
The point is, simply that I was giving you the exact same medicine
that you gave Len. If you want to call this a personal attack, go
ahead. Call it anything you want. This is no more an attack than the
hundreds of subtle attacks you gave Eckankar in the times you've
decided to grace your presence with this newsgroup.
What I did, and what I do, is use humor to neutralize the kind of
negativity that people like you create, however subtle you think you
pretend to be positive towards Eckankar and Eckists.
Love in ECK,
Nathan
sharon v.c.
On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:28:42 -0800 "len" wrote:
> Abdullah replies:
>
> Eckankar
> > fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
>
> I am sending this response of yours to Buffalo State University, consider
> this done. I will find someone at BSU to listen.
>
> You have crossed over the line of decency.
Fer crissakes, Len, you've gotta be kidding!!
What line of decency was crossed? I think "lining the pockets
of the fear-o-crats in Chanhassen" is quite appropriate.
And...I believe Jan & Rita BOTH take great pride in handing
over their minds to your cult.
The slut comment? Well...you know, I've always said, it's men
who are the sluts, and women Great Lovers! <ggg>
I believe Jan and Rita are both very respectable married women
with licenses & all that stuff. Of course...there has been
some speculation about Baaab...
Yeah, Rita/Windulla I'm sure is much more respectable than she
was as a "Catholic." Even though she claims she was in a
convent and wanted to be a nun, but the nuns said she should
go forth into the world and multiply, or whatever...
Don't know if she was pregnant at the time, but...she's posted
the story about how she had so much respect for Catholicism
that she was screwing her boyfriend before going to "confession"
the day before her shotgun wedding. Now...the way I feel, if
you have so little respect for the teachings of the religion you
claim to believe in, then...why bother? It's hypocritical, you
know? Of course...Windulla blames Catholicism.
I think she just didn't get it.
Yes, Rita's a hateful bitch, you know. She's got a long history
of it here. And...I remember her from the Gestapo...you know,
she said she wouldn't feel comfortable hugging a notorious
detractor who'd said something about possibly attending an
eckseminar? She's not very loving, you know...
But definitely...mindless! Can't even recognize the "teachings"
she claims to believe in (yes, the Words of Twitch) unless
they've got the ecklabel on them...
And Jan? <yawn>
Hey, Len, you know....if any of us detractors went whining to
ISPs & stuff the way you eckies do, well...there'd be no time
for detracting!!!!! <ggg>
You eckanborg are a riot, you know? Take, for example, the
bullshit both Jan & Windulla posted below (and gee, that's an
old one) ...
Sharon
PS: Hey, Windy, you dumb broad...it's MISSALETTE!!!!!!!
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
Words of Wisdom from Paul Twitchell, IWL pg. 48: "Generally we can
tell whether he is a real master for a certain number, usually
seven, golden plovers will precede his arrival."
>
> Abdullah M. Mohammed wrote in message
> news:384AA742...@buffalostate.deu...
> > Further the education of WHO involved? More like line the pockets of
> Eckankar
> > fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
> >
> > Windy wrote:
> >
> > > Jan4litsnd wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Perhaps the reason you think ECKANKAR would not work is because you
> are
> > > > unwilling to put in the work that ECKANKAR requires to see results.
> Didn't you
> > > > say you didn't do the Spiritual Exercises. (I for one still don't
> believe you
> > > > were a fifteen year ECKist).
> > > >
> > > Sharon is a good example of why people should give a donation. She
> > > didn't think Eckankar was important enough to give up her money she
> > > spent on cigarettes. She would rather write a letter and lick the stamp,
> > > maybe even a borrowed stamp, who knows. If she was in Eckankar for 15
> > > years and did not care enough about the financial contributions
> > > necessary to further the education of those involved, then I think
> > > Eckankar was not a part of her life, or a very little part of it.
> > > The Discourses were probably read over coffee and a cigarette. She said
> > > in the past that she used the discourses for coasters to keep her coffee
> > > table clean.
> > > Who knows what it means to belong to Eckankar for her. Anyone can get
> > > discourses for free if they want them. That doesn't mean they are
> > > Eckists and practice any of the teachings.
> > > Just as she now says the Misselettes are free. Someone has to buy them.
> > > They are to be kept in the pew when you leave. Someone is misinformed or
> > > just doesn't care.
> > > Now she claims she is a participant in the Catholic faith because she
> > > likes to sing.
> > > Whatever. Its supper-time and I think I will look forward to the
> > > spaghetti my sweet husband made for us.
> > > Windy
> >
>
>
sharon v.c.
On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:21:13 GMT dro...@spamjam.pobox.com (David D.> : On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:04:42 GMT, dro...@spamjam.pobox.com (David D.
> : Rogers) wrote:
> : >Now THIS is advanced spiritual behavior--seeking revenge.
> :
> : Coming from one who is an expert on advanced spiritual behaviour!
> :
> : (The joke of the century)
>
Funny thing about Nathan...he's recently been promoted from
ESA to RESA...makes you wonder, doesn't it?
After all, the HIs & "clergyman" and other high-ranking
officials of eckorg are *personally* selected by the Klempster,
on both the *inner* and the *outer* ...
And...MN knows EVERYTHING...and monitor a.r.e.,
And...Nathan holds a high position....
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Yes, Nathan...who's so terrified of entities who reach out of
the computer monitor...who doesn't even have enough trust and
faith in his pseudo-master to get through a day without his
stupid "protection rituals" ....
Since Nathan doesn't read my stuff, I wish SOMEONE, ANYONE,
would tell him to take MY paragraph about divine unconditional
love out of his form letter!!!! He didn't want it there to
begin with...he could at least give me the credit for it, since
the slimy scumbag doesn't believe in it....but I refused to sign
that letter without it...
God, they're a bunch of asswipes, aren't they?
Sharon
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors
>
> : >
> : >If somebody thinks you've crossed over some line, should they complain to
> : >Compaq, or you? Is this really going to solve anything?
> :
> : Does anything David D. Rogers says ever solve anything?
> :
> :
> :
> :
> :
> :
> : The Invincible Eradicator of Injustice (and mean raquetball player)
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
> David
> -----------
> "They were delightful... I mean, if they're not eating you, they're very
> pleasant people."
> --James Michener on the cannibals of New Hebrides
>
> Have you visited http://members.xoom.com/ptrial today?
> Remove "spamjam." from address to reply.
David D. Rogers
: On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:27:26 GMT, dro...@spamjam.pobox.com (David D.
: Rogers) wrote:
:
: >On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:10:35 GMT, ezaf...@home.com (Nathan Zafran) wrote:
: >:
: >: Does anything David D. Rogers says ever solve anything?
: >
: >Given that most people will usually use the best method to get their point
: >accross, I can only conclude that you though that attacking me personally
: >was the best way to get his point accross. What that point was, I'm not
: >really sure. What was that point?
:
: The point is, simply that I was giving you the exact same medicine
: that you gave Len. If you want to call this a personal attack, go
: ahead. Call it anything you want. This is no more an attack than the
: hundreds of subtle attacks you gave Eckankar in the times you've
: decided to grace your presence with this newsgroup.
Translation: There was no "point", per se (a "point" being some type of
idea expressed). Just an attempt to give me "medicine", but not to
personally attack. Interesting contradiction.
: What I did, and what I do, is use humor to neutralize the kind of
: negativity that people like you create, however subtle you think you
: pretend to be positive towards Eckankar and Eckists.
Whatever. You're the wrong person to be making these statements, though,
whatever Harold Klemp thinks of you: I'm a little dubious of someone who
tosses out the phrase "spiritually inferior" and then tries to get pious
on me. (See
http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=547618636&CONTEXT=944470391.324141076&hitnum=0
and
http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=548493582&CONTEXT=944470391.324141076&hitnum=5
and
http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=547624468&CONTEXT=944470391.324141076&hitnum=6
BTW: The phrase "inferior bigot" sounds more like a pun than a serious
criticism.)
: Love in ECK,
:
: Nathan
?!,
Nathan Zafran
Rogers) wrote:
>Translation: There was no "point", per se (a "point" being some type of
>idea expressed). Just an attempt to give me "medicine", but not to
>personally attack. Interesting contradiction.
I was just mirroring exactly what you did. Which shows me that you can
give it but can't take it!
>
>: What I did, and what I do, is use humor to neutralize the kind of
>: negativity that people like you create, however subtle you think you
>: pretend to be positive towards Eckankar and Eckists.
>
>Whatever. You're the wrong person to be making these statements, though,
>whatever Harold Klemp thinks of you: I'm a little dubious of someone who
>tosses out the phrase "spiritually inferior" and then tries to get pious
I am exactly the right person to evaluate who you really are, because
I can read you behind the words you use. You can talk til you're blue
in the face but your true nature stands out very clearly, and what you
are inside is not much different than the rest of the anti-Eckists
here. You have a serious bias against Eckankar and Eckists and it
shows every time you open your cyber-mouth. Maybe you couch your words
a little prettier than some, but the negative energy that comes out is
no different. You can deny this all you want. That's what I receive
when I read your garbage.
Nathan
Jan4litsnd
> Funny thing about Nathan...he's recently been promoted from
ESA to RESA...makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Actually, I don't think you listened to what he said. I believe he said that he
and his previous wife were at one time co-RESA's, in Japan, I believe.
Jan
Jan4litsnd
Sharon, I admit, it was getting a little boring in here for me while you were
gone a few days. I just can't get into the $130 a year membership cost thing
(who cares, it's a bargain). Not only that, it's free for the asking if you
can't afford it. You're much more challenging, and while others prefer to zip
you out of the ng postings, I actually like to respond to your nonstop
nonsense; when I have time. I hope to get over that one day soon. It's
something I'm 'working on'.
So, you wrote:
> Yes, Rita's a hateful bitch, you know. She's got a long history
of it here. And...I remember her from the Gestapo...you know,
she said she wouldn't feel comfortable hugging a notorious
detractor who'd said something about possibly attending an
eckseminar? She's not very loving, you know...
> But definitely...mindless! Can't even recognize the "teachings"
she claims to believe in (yes, the Words of Twitch) unless
they've got the ecklabel on them...
>Fer crissakes, Len, you've gotta be kidding!!
> What line of decency was crossed? I think "lining the pockets
of the fear-o-crats in Chanhassen" is quite appropriate.
> And...I believe Jan & Rita BOTH take great pride in handing
over their minds to your cult.
> The slut comment? Well...you know, I've always said, it's men
who are the sluts, and women Great Lovers! <ggg>
> I believe Jan and Rita are both very respectable married women
with licenses & all that stuff. Of course...there has been
some speculation about Baaab...
<snip, snip, snip the mean stuff>
> And Jan? <yawn>
<snipperoo>
>PS: Hey, Windy, you dumb broad...it's MISSALETTE!!!!!!!
Yeah, Windy, it's really important to know how to spell 'missalette'. Spelling
is another plus of reading this ng. Once I misspelled 'mettle' (or is it
'metle', or...I don't remember now) as 'metal', but Joey was kind with his
reply.
Quite a message overall...we're mindless, hateful, or boring broads, and I
won't repeat the rest.
Maybe I can help you think of more...dumb...blond...airheads... (I'm not blond,
how about you, Windy?)
I get it, you're really a misogynist in virtual drag??? Please feel free to
correct my 'misogynist' spelling, didn't feel like going to the dictionary.
See, anyone can respond to anything.
Doesn't prove a thing. Doesn't even prove or dissprove ECKANKAR.
Merry mischief, and happy Santa season,
Jan
Windy
>
> On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:28:42 -0800 "len" wrote:
> > Abdullah replies:
> >
> > > Further the education of WHO involved? More like line the pockets of
> > Eckankar
> > > fear-o-crats in Chanhassen. Mindless slut!!!
> >
>
> > I am sending this response of yours to Buffalo State University, consider
> > this done. I will find someone at BSU to listen.
> >
> > You have crossed over the line of decency.
>
>
> What line of decency was crossed? I think "lining the pockets
> of the fear-o-crats in Chanhassen" is quite appropriate.
>
> And...I believe Jan & Rita BOTH take great pride in handing
> over their minds to your cult.
>
> The slut comment? Well...you know, I've always said, it's men
> who are the sluts, and women Great Lovers! <ggg>
>
> I believe Jan and Rita are both very respectable married women
> with licenses & all that stuff. Of course...there has been
> some speculation about Baaab...
>
> was as a "Catholic." Even though she claims she was in a
> convent and wanted to be a nun, but the nuns said she should
> go forth into the world and multiply, or whatever...
>
> Don't know if she was pregnant at the time, but...she's posted
> the story about how she had so much respect for Catholicism
> that she was screwing her boyfriend before going to "confession"
> the day before her shotgun wedding. Now...the way I feel, if
> you have so little respect for the teachings of the religion you
> claim to believe in, then...why bother? It's hypocritical, you
> know? Of course...Windulla blames Catholicism.
>
> I think she just didn't get it.
>
> of it here. And...I remember her from the Gestapo...you know,
> she said she wouldn't feel comfortable hugging a notorious
> detractor who'd said something about possibly attending an
> eckseminar? She's not very loving, you know...
>
> But definitely...mindless! Can't even recognize the "teachings"
> she claims to believe in (yes, the Words of Twitch) unless
> they've got the ecklabel on them...
>
>
> Hey, Len, you know....if any of us detractors went whining to
> ISPs & stuff the way you eckies do, well...there'd be no time
> for detracting!!!!! <ggg>
>
> You eckanborg are a riot, you know? Take, for example, the
> bullshit both Jan & Windulla posted below (and gee, that's an
> old one) ...
>
>
> Sharon
>
>
Nathan Zafran
Funny thing about Sharon. She can't read English, like most of the
detrators here on a.r.e.
Nathan
Jan4litsnd
I wrote:
>Doesn't prove a thing. Doesn't even prove or dissprove ECKANKAR.
Uh oh, where are the spelling police? dissprove? or just diss?
Jan,
the merry this time of year; married all year round.
Mahavahana
>
> Sharon, I admit, it was getting a little boring in here for me while you were
> gone a few days. I just can't get into the $130 a year membership cost thing
> (who cares, it's a bargain). Not only that, it's free for the asking if you
> can't afford it. You're much more challenging, and while others prefer to zip
> you out of the ng postings, I actually like to respond to your nonstop
> nonsense; when I have time. I hope to get over that one day soon. It's
> something I'm 'working on'.
Jan, you're so very much an aristocrat! (lol) Anyway . . .
The papers (discourses) you recieve from Eckankar may be a bargain to
you, that's true. What one considers a bargain depends on one's
perspective.
I love books, always have. But I've been asking myself just what book
I'd pay $130 for that was, materially speaking, only 100 sheets of
unbound legal paper.
I can't come up with anything. Indeed, if I were in a bookstore and
such a thing were offered to me at that price as a "bargain," I'd
probably laugh in the book merchant's face!
But then again . . . if I were sold on the idea that I *had* to have
these papers to further my spiritual connection to God/Life Itself,
then yes, I'd probably consider $130 a pittance.
Every year.
Jan4litsnd
>The papers (discourses) you recieve from Eckankar may be a bargain to
you, that's true. What one considers a bargain depends on one's
perspective.
>I love books, always have. But I've been asking myself just what book
I'd pay $130 for that was, materially speaking, only 100 sheets of
unbound legal paper.
>I can't come up with anything. Indeed, if I were in a bookstore and
such a thing were offered to me at that price as a "bargain," I'd
probably laugh in the book merchant's face!
>But then again . . . if I were sold on the idea that I *had* to have
these papers to further my spiritual connection to God/Life Itself,
then yes, I'd probably consider $130 a pittance.
>Every year.
Speaking of books, our family visited the Library of Congress a couple of years
ago, as our daughter was looking for a book she had heard of that she had
looked for in bookstores but hadn't yet found. We found it there, it's called
"An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosicrucian
symbolical Philosophy" Being an interpretation of the Secret Teachings
concealed within the Rituals, Allegories and Mysteries of all Ages, by Manly
P.Hall, first published in 1901.
Pretty interesting, in fact a fascinating book. It is like an encyclopedia of
so many teachings. So, we went back and found it through some bookstore in LA
and got it for her as a gift. It's a huge book, measures about 13 x 19". Our
daughter loves books. She has also collected a few others that she looked for
about fairies and such. She has "The Coming of the Fairies", by Sir Arthur
Conon Doyle. She loves studying anything even closly resembling anything
spiritual, or looking into the histories and differing beliefs of various
teachings and thoughts and paths. However, she was raised to have an open mind
and look into all philosophies with that openmindedness.
I don't get the difference between paying a few hundered dollars for a book, or
paying a few hundred dollars for a getaway weekend. It's all up to the
individual what they prefer to spend money for and what has meaning for them.
I guess that proves we like books.
Jan
sharon v.c.
On Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:49:19 GMT "Mahavahana" wrote:
> On 06 Dec 1999 17:59:58 GMT jan4l...@aol.com (Jan4litsnd) wrote:
> >
> > Sharon, I admit, it was getting a little boring in here for me while you were
> > gone a few days. I just can't get into the $130 a year membership cost thing
> > (who cares, it's a bargain). Not only that, it's free for the asking if you
> > can't afford it. You're much more challenging, and while others prefer to zip
> > you out of the ng postings, I actually like to respond to your nonstop
> > nonsense; when I have time. I hope to get over that one day soon. It's
> > something I'm 'working on'.
>
> Jan, you're so very much an aristocrat! (lol) Anyway . . .
>
I think she's boring. How do all you long-timers here stand
it? I mean...you know how they're going to respond before
they say it, you know? And...since I'm a recent defector,
well...if I want to, I can flip into "eckanborg" mode myself,
and *know* ...<ggg>...of course, it's not even necessary
to do that...
They're just so...predictably brainwashed! You know...
like some students used to do...ingest & regurgitate...
That's not *real* learning!
>
> The papers (discourses) you recieve from Eckankar may be a bargain to you, that's true. What one considers a bargain depends on one's
> perspective.
>
> I love books, always have. But I've been asking myself just what book
> I'd pay $130 for that was, materially speaking, only 100 sheets of
> unbound legal paper.
*Any* book eventually shows up used somewhere...
Hey, Joe...at one of my favorite used bookshops, oh, they
have some totally awesome old books...one was a really
old hand-illumined Chaucer...
Wouldn't want to own anything like that, I'd spill coffee
on them accidentally...
>
> I can't come up with anything. Indeed, if I were in a bookstore and
> such a thing were offered to me at that price as a "bargain," I'd
> probably laugh in the book merchant's face!
Like...some of them are selling used "newbie freebie" books
for $4 and $5! <giggle>
>
> But then again . . . if I were sold on the idea that I *had* to have
> these papers to further my spiritual connection to God/Life Itself,
> then yes, I'd probably consider $130 a pittance.
You know what? I wonder how they're doing it now, with that
once a year thingie? I rarely had the $130 all at one time,
so I'd send in three or six months payment at a time.
I didn't think of the price, although if I would have, well...
I figured I was supporting the org, light bills, salaries,
etc. I never even considered it as paying for my "connection"
to God, through the "mahanta," to be honest...although I knew
my "connection" required membership, well...I believed that
stuff about it being "life itself" so how could you drop out?
And damn, when I wanted a "rest" and asked for one...I still
didn't get one!!!
I toss more than that in the collection basket at Mass...gee,
I toss change in those little jars you see all over for various
things...oh, one of those "tag day" kids accosted me at Walmart
the other day (I shop with my Mac card), well...it was a cute
little kid, and I like to help (although with three grandkids,
well...they're always collecting for *something*) ... all I had
was a heck of a lot of change (the purse gets heavy sometimes)
but the kid said, yeah...they'd take change! So...I emptied it
all into the bucket!!
You don't carry a purse, so you wouldn't understand...I've got
five different compartments, and usually don't take time to put
the change in my wallet...so, every so often, I take my purse,
hold it sideways & shake it real good to get all the change on
one end, and when I'm done, the purse is usually a lot lighter.
How do men survive without purses, anyway? I try to alternate
shoulders, too....
>
> Every year.
>
See, they just don't get it! They don't understand...they're
paying for a connection to God, and not even getting one!!
A *real* connection, well...that's free, a gift...and one that
you can never express your gratitude for in any material way,
too!
I didn't get it when I was an eckist either...
Do you remember, though, last year, when I "resigned" just for
a few days, then went running back...and sent them a check?
It was just for $20, but that's all I had...I didn't
understand why I felt the need to send a check, because I'd
been on the "charity" list for about a year. But...something
inside me said that sending a check was important...
I told David Hutt about it privately, since I was sort of
getting advice & spiritual guidance from him at the time, or
so I thought. And...he wrote back to me, that he was glad I'd
seen the importance of sending in money.
You know...when after almost 15 years in the cult, I finally
had no choice but to request "free" membership for a short
time, well...it was hard for me to ask. I told myself that
maybe I had a problem with pride, and that asking for a
temporary break through some "short" times would be a good
lesson for me...
Oh, well...I'm just glad I'm out of it. You know...I'd be
very happy to pay whatever price was asked for the incredible
joy & love I've found since breaking free of this cult...
and reclaiming what was mine before they messed with it.
You know...we can all have that "connection" totally free,
without *any* organization or "master" or anything...hey, if
I choose to go to the Catholic church, well...that's my
business, you know? I'm not saying it's for everyone...it's
totally irrelevant, sort of...
Anyway...this reminds me of one of my old favorites, a
really beautiful piece at:
http://www.inlink.com/~rife/masters.txt
And I've got to finish moving Dave Rife's site...new location
to be announced....
Hugs,
Sharon
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
" . . . each of those who are ECKists must come to the
realization that they each, belong to the chosen race of the superior
being. All others are aliens, that is those who have not yet
voluntarily taken up the path of ECK. These aliens, as we
speak of them, are, in a way, heathens or pagans who have not yet found
truth. They are the agents of the Kal, and the enemy of those who are
the followers of ECK." Paul Twitchell, IWL, pg. 168
"We must be honourable, decent, loyal and comradely to bearers of our
own blood, but to no one else!" -Heinrich Himmler in a speech
to his SS commanders in 1936-
sharon v.c.
sharon v.c.
Windy
>
> Sharon, I admit, it was getting a little boring in here for me while you were
> gone a few days. I just can't get into the $130 a year membership cost thing
> (who cares, it's a bargain). Not only that, it's free for the asking if you
> can't afford it. You're much more challenging, and while others prefer to zip
> you out of the ng postings, I actually like to respond to your nonstop
> nonsense; when I have time. I hope to get over that one day soon. It's
> something I'm 'working on'.
>
>
> > Yes, Rita's a hateful bitch, you know. She's got a long history
> of it here. And...I remember her from the Gestapo...you know,
> she said she wouldn't feel comfortable hugging a notorious
> detractor who'd said something about possibly attending an
> eckseminar? She's not very loving, you know...
>
> > But definitely...mindless! Can't even recognize the "teachings"
> she claims to believe in (yes, the Words of Twitch) unless
> they've got the ecklabel on them...
>
>
> > What line of decency was crossed? I think "lining the pockets
> of the fear-o-crats in Chanhassen" is quite appropriate.
>
> > And...I believe Jan & Rita BOTH take great pride in handing
> over their minds to your cult.
>
> > The slut comment? Well...you know, I've always said, it's men
> who are the sluts, and women Great Lovers! <ggg>
>
> > I believe Jan and Rita are both very respectable married women
> with licenses & all that stuff. Of course...there has been
> some speculation about Baaab...
>
>
> > And Jan? <yawn>
>
> <snipperoo>
>
>
> is another plus of reading this ng. Once I misspelled 'mettle' (or is it
> 'metle', or...I don't remember now) as 'metal', but Joey was kind with his
> reply.
>
> Quite a message overall...we're mindless, hateful, or boring broads, and I
> won't repeat the rest.
>
> Maybe I can help you think of more...dumb...blond...airheads... (I'm not blond,
> how about you, Windy?)
>
> I get it, you're really a misogynist in virtual drag??? Please feel free to
> correct my 'misogynist' spelling, didn't feel like going to the dictionary.
>
> See, anyone can respond to anything.
>
>
> Jan
I must say, Sharon has a memory like an elephant. I can't remember half
the stuff she finds so important to dig up from the past.
I guess little minds remember little things.
What surprises me, is that just recently, within the same time frame,
she posted about not getting personal and sticking with the cult.
Does she read what she types?
I couldn't think of any nicer things that could be said about me. It is
nice that someone grabs on my every thought and post and remembers them.
She must really love me, deep down inside to internalize my posts and
life like that.
Winders
Mahavahana
>
>
> >The papers (discourses) you recieve from Eckankar may be a bargain to
> you, that's true. What one considers a bargain depends on one's
> perspective.
>
> >I love books, always have. But I've been asking myself just what book
> I'd pay $130 for that was, materially speaking, only 100 sheets of
> unbound legal paper.
>
> such a thing were offered to me at that price as a "bargain," I'd
> probably laugh in the book merchant's face!
>
> these papers to further my spiritual connection to God/Life Itself,
> then yes, I'd probably consider $130 a pittance.
>
>
>
> Speaking of books, our family visited the Library of Congress a couple of years
> ago, as our daughter was looking for a book she had heard of that she had
> looked for in bookstores but hadn't yet found. We found it there, it's called
> "An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosicrucian
> symbolical Philosophy" Being an interpretation of the Secret Teachings
> concealed within the Rituals, Allegories and Mysteries of all Ages, by Manly
> P.Hall, first published in 1901.
>
> Pretty interesting, in fact a fascinating book. It is like an encyclopedia of
> so many teachings. So, we went back and found it through some bookstore in LA
> and got it for her as a gift. It's a huge book, measures about 13 x 19". Our
> daughter loves books. She has also collected a few others that she looked for
> about fairies and such. She has "The Coming of the Fairies", by Sir Arthur
> Conon Doyle. She loves studying anything even closly resembling anything
> spiritual, or looking into the histories and differing beliefs of various
> teachings and thoughts and paths. However, she was raised to have an open mind
> and look into all philosophies with that openmindedness.
Ah yes, rare first editions are certainly worth considerable sums of
money.
But 100 sheets of freshly printed stock? That's not the same thing.
>
> I don't get the difference between paying a few hundered dollars for a book, or
> paying a few hundred dollars for a getaway weekend. It's all up to the
> individual what they prefer to spend money for and what has meaning for them.
I too see no problem in paying any amount of money for something of
legitimate material value.
The market value of a book will increase according to the laws of
supply and demand.
Unlike rare antiquarian finds which get more expensive as the number of
copies dwindle, the supply of Eck discoures is limitless. The org can
print 'em out as fast as the orders come in.
However, the *distribution* of Eck discourses is in the total control
of Eckankar org.
You have to be an Eckorg member to get these discourses.
Even if a friend has copies of these discourses, and loans them to you
to read, you're not helping yourself at all according to the LEM. The
LEM says you must become a member yourself, because sharing the
discourses will damage your spiritual progress.
The demand for Eck discourses is a curious thing. From where does the
idea arise that the Eck discourses are legitimately worth $130 a set,
and is a bargain at that price?
Well, when you tell people that they need these discoures 'cause they
link you to the LEM, the ECK, and the MAHANTA, and you tell them that
the only way they can get these discourses is by ordering a fresh batch
every year from Eck org, then suddenly $130 seems a small price to pay.
>
>
> I guess that proves we like books.
>
>
> Jan
--
Michael Wallace
Windy <saxm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:384BFC...@bellsouth.net...
> Jan4litsnd wrote:
> >
> I must say, Sharon has a memory like an elephant. I can't remember half
> the stuff she finds so important to dig up from the past.
When it is convenient to remember, it appears she can. When convenient to
forget calling people Bullies and other nasty words when supposedly a
"loving ECKist" it appears she can't recall.
When she gets reminded of this little snippet, she denies it...
When she is shown proof of what she wrote, she accuses people of being
"slime" and "Deceitful" and all sorts of projection stuff.
You know Windy... I really think she DOES forget whatever is convenient to
forget. It is one of the hallmarks of bias and a lack of general integrity
to remember another's (supposed) faults and forget your own. But if this
makes the dear old woman happy... Who am I to try an interefer with her
choices. I am sure the results speak for themselves <G>
Love
michael
Michael Wallace
Jan4litsnd <jan4l...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991206142208...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
>
>
> I don't get the difference between paying a few hundered dollars for a
book, or
> paying a few hundred dollars for a getaway weekend. It's all up to the
> individual what they prefer to spend money for and what has meaning for
them.
Hey... No one else does either... But Joe seems to be soooo impressed with
all these posts he wants to continue to whack out "religiously" that I am
beginning to wonder if some Sant Mat guru isn't paying him.
You have to wonder, don't you. He has never denied any affiliation, and his
actions defy reason. So perhaps his real purpose here is to simply disrupt,
and hey... Maybe someone is paying him after all? I can't say for certain,
but it would make sense.
I wonder about this because the Sant Mat folk have this abhorence of taking
money for their spiritual instruction. Wills, probate, gifts, service... All
these are acceptable, but not a yearly donation. Sort of makes you wonder...
For further information on this topic look up "How to generate a Rumour" by
I P Daily ...
Love
Michael
w...@achilles.net
>
> The papers (discourses) you recieve from Eckankar may be a bargain to
> you, that's true. What one considers a bargain depends on one's
> perspective.
I agree with that one, at least.
> I love books, always have. But I've been asking myself just what book
> I'd pay $130 for that was, materially speaking, only 100 sheets of
> unbound legal paper.
Right; where books are concerned, we pay for the amount of paper, not
the content. NOT!
Seriously, I was surprised to find out what it costs to subscribe to
specialty and "alternative" publications like investment sheets,
political journals, literary mimeo mags, etc. $130 per annum still
ain't all that expensive.
More to the point though, the money members send in is not, strictly
speaking, to pay for paper or even text.
> I can't come up with anything. Indeed, if I were in a bookstore and
> such a thing were offered to me at that price as a "bargain," I'd
> probably laugh in the book merchant's face!
What's that old saying; the cynic is one who knows the price of
everything and the value of nothing.
Bruce
Michael Wallace
is what we now call a "Dead Horse Post".
Joe is simply trolling, and many of the writers here no longer bother to
respond.
Love
Michael
Mahavahana <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote in message
news:zhW24.9015$Mg.1...@c01read03-admin.service.talkway.com...
SoulWords
<snip>>
>What's that old saying; the cynic is one who knows the price of
>everything and the value of nothing.
>
Very appropos, Bruce.
Of course, there are times nothing can be quite valuable.You remember the old
comemrical-
"Nothing does it like 7-Up?
(And it's a lot cheaper, too)
Love, David
Abdullah M. Mohammed
Abdullah M. Mohammed
Nathan Zafran
<moha...@buffalostate.deu> wrote:
>> Funny thing about Sharon. She can't read English, like most of the
>> detrators here on a.r.e.
Funny thing about the Butcher. His attempt at humor is almost as great
as his attempt at thinking or eating peanuts.
Maybe he should try singing the Hu instead?
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Rich
>
> It's too close too Christmas. I can't continue this charade any longer. My real identity is
??????????????
--
o
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Rich~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Abdullah M. Mohammed
criminal genes and family karma. Excellent post, Michael!!!
Michael Wallace
Abdullah M. Mohammed <moha...@buffalostate.deu> wrote in message
news:3853D081...@buffalostate.deu...
> Further evidence of a childhood spent being severely abused coupled with
> criminal genes and family karma. Excellent post, Michael!!!
>
>
I can't say for sure, of course, that Joe is getting paid to troll... And I
really don't even know if your agreement with me here is warranted. All I
did was offer a suggestion, and I certainly cannot say if Joe has or has not
been abused as a child, or if he has ever been a criminal.
What is more, I really can't understand where you are getting this as an
implication, A lot of Bullah? It seems that you want to see a lot of things
in posts that haven't been written... This, of course, is a tendancy
generally given to Paranoid Personalities... But of course, from such
limited info as you have presented I really cannot give a clear analysis of
yourself... I honestly suggest you don't run Joe down like this... At least
until you get to know him better <G>
Love
Michael