Style versus Substance
Doug Marman
realized that this musician cared more about the skill in playing a piano
than the music itself. At the time I felt a little uncomfortable with what
they were saying, but didn't know what it was until I thought about it
later. They told me their opinion of other musicians and I could see that
the way they judged them was based on their style and skill of playing - not
on the music they wrote or played.
As I was thinking about this, I realized that I've met a number of artists
who spent more of their time focusing on perfecting a style of art, rather
than what the art was communicating. This is, of course, what artists must
spend their time perfecting, since they must hone their skills, but in the
process many seem to think that this is what matters most in art.
Thinking about this, I realize how I have always much preferred the essence
and substance of the art, not its style or the skill it displays. It is the
spirit of the work that moves me.
There is no question that great skill can make a work of art much more
enjoyable, and without the proper skill the artform seems unable to transmit
what the artist wants. However, as I think about this, I realize that so
many artists, and almost all art critics, seem focused on style and skill.
This turns art into an egotistic venture. I met a violinist once whose whole
life seemed wrapped around the skill of their playing and what critics said
about them after their performances. I've read dozens of art critics,
whether critics of literature, music or movies, who acted as if the skills
they could point to and pass judgment on were more important than the
substance of the art. They would rave about art because it showed the
greatest of skill, or was original, forgetting to mention that it was empty
of substance or even carried a disturbing state of consciousness.
This is of course why so few art critics are successful artists. Even if
they can develop the skills they think are so important - still, that is not
what makes great art.
I think the same thing happens on the spiritual path. So many focus on the
form and style, or the skill of the teacher or the leaders. To me, real art,
just as true spiritual teachings, are not about the people, but are about
something that brings us far beyond people and egos. Like a wind coming from
a distant land we can ride upon it to experience new states of
consciousness.
Therefore, the best artists, to me, seem to be invisible. Their skills don't
show. Only the substance that is transmitted through their art stands out.
We may recognize them by their names, but it isn't their names that really
matter, just like it doesn't matter which window the sun comes through.
This same problem doesn't occur in other fields, such as engineering, or the
medical profession. There, we value skill or experience higher for good
reason. A new design might look good, but it is how well it works that
matters most, and of course we would like no scars after surgery but more
important is that we return to health.
Art is different, because it is not about the form but what comes through
the work. I think a spiritual teaching is the same.
I'd be interested to hear if this triggers any thoughts. It seems to be
connected to something larger.
Doug.
Sam
cher
it took a lifetime to perfect. The first aspect of studying the arts is
that of learning discipline. But once an artist garners the skills
necessary, do they know what to do with those skills? Some start out
with something to say, others start out simply wanting to be heard,
regardless. It is no different than in any other walk of life.... just
that the everyday experiences of most aren't noted in the New York
Times. <smile>
Take a look some time at the ancient works of oriental ink artists....
every stroke of the brush is years in the making... but yet only the
heart can place the brush in any given moment. Skills and heartspeak are
always hand in hand.
Of course I have to say that I disagree with you on saying that what
some beings do is meant to be skills based and therefore not related to
art. The most mundane things can be a work of art to observe depending
on the joy in the heart of the doer. Whatever a being does for the love
of the doing, is expressing art. Art is a way of saying I love you to
the world, through beingness in the moment.
Fine arts must contain a brilliant expression of space and form and
function. One cannot seperate design elements from art.... not even in a
Pollack! Nope.... design is always a part of the whole. It's the
KNOWINGNESS behind the hand that expresses. What makes the difference is
the anticipation and expectation of the viewer. If it doesn't speak to
you, then find something that does! :-)
Michael
"Doug Marman" <d.ma...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:RMpfa.217362$sf5.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
I had the interesting experience of watching a woman I knew transform from a
classical player to a classically wonderful performer.
She was a Cellist who working in local orchestras, and she came to do a
piece with a friend of mine... I was helping in the wings... and when she
sat down for the first rehersal, she asked "Where is the music?"
My friend looked at me, looked at her, looked back at me, and said "We don;t
do that sort of thing around here."
She struggled for thjree rehersals with this concept of following a simple
chordal tructure, and improvising ... just using her intuition to tell her
what notes to play. But on the third try, she got it.
It was remarkable to see... The frail looking girl suddenly became infused
with a sense of power and clarity, and she absolutely got right into it...
And she said it was the best thing she had EVER done in music.
Of course, the entire Classical training is by rote, and ear training,
improvisation, these things take a back seat to accuracy and technique ...
But when she jumped camps from the rigorous school of hard notes to the free
flowing dance of music... she never looked back.
Within a year she was playing with the Academy of Saint Martin's in the
Fields ... which as it turns out, besides being one of the most inspiratioal
orchestras in the world, also has most of its members gigging in Jazz and
Blues clubs around London when they are not rehersing.
To watch a strict "catholic" classical player become so immediate and fluent
... to actually be there at the moment of transition... that was something
that will stay with me my entire life. And to see how all that strict
confining eventually emerged like the buterfly from the cocoon... Tio watch
how someone transcended their inner barriers... Great stuff...
love
Michael
PS: I am not so sure that "hard" professions such as engineering do not have
subtleties and egos involved ... I met a bridge engineer who would wax
lyrical about this curve being just right and nmeeting the arch of the road
in that way, which was sheer perfection, and retaining this quality of
design which would impart that quality of security to users of the bridge,
etc...
Inm fact, and architech friend of mine, who works for the Architech/engineer
who makes the remarkable bridges that seem to hang in space... He said
"Architech is a high art, for it must not only look beautiful, it must be
functional and usable all in the same breath."
So in this sense, even engineers hold onto the "performance" and collect the
cudos and measure their success in terms of accuracy or work and respect
from peers ... And the skill does not make great architechture...
Gotta go... interesting subject
>
>
Doug Marman
Thanks.
Doug.
"Michael" <spl...@plat.org> wrote in message
news:u7Dfa.7159$dE2....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Doug Marman
I agree there is art in all things. I didn't mean to suggest engineering is
all skill based, but only that the functionality is what is most important,
while with art it is mostly about something beyond the form itself.
Thanks.
Doug.
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E7E446B...@worldnet.att.net...
Doug Marman
"Sam" <S...@churchofa.r.e.net> wrote in message
news:HKqfa.1552$kH4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> Doug, what has the Art of Samology brought to your ATTENTION?
I give up. What has it brought to my attention?
I'm really bad with quizes... <G>
The only thing I know is to keep the main thing the main thing. But I forget
where I learned that. <G>
Doug.
cher
where artists are not seen as a separate subculture or national
treasure... where one works for a living while honing their skills. We
churn out more visual/audio material for commercial purposes then all
the art throughout the ages combined! And it's on demand... deadlines
and restrictions. There are people who make choices for the artistic
everyday by structuring what it bought and sold. Many a great being with
amazing talent has ended up in a food line. :-\ So I wouldn't be to
quick to judge the initial content of an artists work by one or two
experiences with it. To get to know the true artist... make an
appointment and keep an open mind! You'd be amazed at what you might
find. It's a tricky world to deal with... the creative world. Marketing
is more important than spiritual content to most, and this morning I
wonder what spiritual content might be noticeable to someone such as
Saddam Hussan or George Bush compared to what I might find uplifting.
The market is huge and not everyone will like what an artist shares.
Serve ones heart is all one can do. Judge that heart and you essentially
dismiss it can grow.
I recall a moderately famous midwest artist at a show that I was in. He
was fawned over by so many beings but his work had become predictable
and well.... essentially dead in its expression as far as I could see.
He was churning out safe work that sold. If I'd judged him on what he
put in the show that day to make sales, I'd have missed the opportunity
to learn that he kept his newest work to himself in his experimenting.
He had a family to feed and his retirement to support. Being self
employed is a tenuous situation for most people! But people had come to
expect a certain style from him and he had amazing regular sales
tallies! That is not common in the arts where talent is so disposable.
But he was working with his own experimental expressions and that part
of him wasn't what the public was looking for. Our culture is very
fickle and quick to leap to the latest fad. What is lasting as pure
talent to treasure will be judged many decades from now by others who
can see what we struggled with in order to survive.
cheryl........
Al Radzik
Doug Marman wrote:
Very thought provoking post, Doug. Keep in mind that the artist who "moves" us
must too learn the skills sets required for the inspiration to flow through
him/her. I, as a musician writing songs most of my life, will sometimes search
for that lost chord, and settle for something close. The music comes through us,
not from us.
Remember that Jack Benny was actually a very talented violinist. He played it
badly intentionally to enhance the style of his comedic routines. Sort of like
me!!<GG>
Alf
Michael
"Al Radzik" <alfi...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3E819600...@rcn.com...
Dear Alf...
I have your lost chord...
Please pay me $130 per year, and I will send it to you a bit at a time,
every month <G>
Love
Michael
>
Doug Marman
I just got back from another business trip and read your post. I was
wondering why you wrote this in response to what I wrote?
I have worked closely with artists (illustrators, photographers and
musicians), and have had jobs where I worked in the field of the arts
(graphic arts and photography). I also have quite a few friends who are both
accomplished as well as amateur artists.
Was there something I said that you were responding to, or were these just
some added thoughts than you were sharing. I ask, because I don't see the
connection and was wondering if I was missing something.
Doug.
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E80977C...@worldnet.att.net...
Doug Marman
Alf,
Yes, that is interesting about Jack Benny. I remember seeing that on a
biography about him once, but I forgot about it.
I didn't know you played the violin badly as well... <G>
I was thinking more about this and I think you are getting at something that
I was concluding as well.
Thanks.
Doug.
cher
have a long history with the creative arts as well, and just enjoyed
sharing on a subject dear to my heart. I don't get the opportunity to do
that very often. <smile> Did I seem defensive in what I shared? Is it us
or this group? <grin>
It's nice to know we have something more in common! <smile>
Doug Marman
Since you like the subject of art, here is a quote I recently read from an
interview with Sir Laurens van der Post, shortly before he died in 1996. Sir
Laurens was the author of 23 books, two of which became feature films and
two others served as a basis for two award winning public TV series. He was
also a journalist, soldier, prisoner of war, adviser to British heads of
state, educator, explorer, and more.
The interviewer was Michael Toms, who has his radio show, New Dimensions.
Here's the excerpt:
"MT: Sir Laurens, your knowledge of the Bushmen (of the Kalahari) has
inspired you to write 'Art, poetry, and music are matters of survival. They
are guardians and makers of the unbroken chain of what's oldest and first in
the human spirit.' In some ways we've lost our connection to our art and our
poetry, and the importance of it. We've lost our ability to tell stories."
"LvdP: The hunger for stories is considerable. People are starved for them.
The reason stories are not listened to is that story-making is not a
rational process. You can't go to school, as people pretend, and learn how
to write a story. You can't learn it because it comes out of the totality of
the human spirit. Consciousness is not to be equated with reason. Modern
people think that consciousness is rational, but the greatest input in
consciousness comes from nonrational sources. And that's where art is
important, because art is nonrational. You can't say that art or music is
rational. And all these things enrich and heighten human awareness.
"Blake said, 'Nations decay when the arts decay.' We've been cut off;
there's no real art today. There are quite interesting books being written,
but there's no art that I can see. There's no great music around. There's a
lot of talented stuff around, but not the real deep, deep process of
creating and continuing the story; and that is because man has lost contact
with his myth. That's what happened to the Greek spirit when it was taken
over by Rome - in Rome the gods no longer walked the earth but were
relegated to outer space; the stars became gods.
"Even Aristotle, the great philosopher of reason, in his old age, said, 'The
older I am, the more the myth means to me, the closer I get to the myth.'"
Doug.
"cher" <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3E8644B1...@worldnet.att.net...
eckboogieman
Well I play the violin with occasional gusts of competency but really
rather fiddle,( as I interject here.)
Its either a sign that mankind might actually get along when Alf and
Doug can have a civilized discussion about something or a portent
of the end times I haven't decided which yet.
I havent been visiting the slagfest lately. I've decided theres LOTS to
work on in my own life that I do not have the time to tell other people
how wrong they are. (ggg)
M
> LOL...... No Doug, I was just adding thoughts, not anything malicious. I
> have a long history with the creative arts as well, and just enjoyed
> sharing on a subject dear to my heart. I don't get the opportunity to do
> that very often. <smile> Did I seem defensive in what I shared? Is it us
> or this group? <grin>
>
> It's nice to know we have something more in common! <smile>
>
> cheryl........
Goodness. This may be the first 'kiss ass' post from Cher I've ever
seen. What's the matter Cher? Afraid you won't ever get your 5th
unless you play nice with Doug? M.
cher
>
> cher <gruen...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<3E8644B1...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > LOL...... No Doug, I was just adding thoughts, not anything malicious. I
> > have a long history with the creative arts as well, and just enjoyed
> > sharing on a subject dear to my heart. I don't get the opportunity to do
> > that very often. <smile> Did I seem defensive in what I shared? Is it us
> > or this group? <grin>
> >
> > It's nice to know we have something more in common! <smile>
> >
> > cheryl........
>
> Goodness. This may be the first 'kiss ass' post from Cher I've ever
> seen. What's the matter Cher? Afraid you won't ever get your 5th
> unless you play nice with Doug? M.
?????? Excuse me? Did you forget your medication again, dear?
Al Radzik
Doug Marman wrote:
Doug, I play the guitar and piano and I have for quite a number of years. When I
sit down with my instrument, I am transferred to a different sphere of
consciousness. The world kind of falls away and I try to attune my true self to
a place where the Muses strike the hot irons. I never take credit for my
material because frankly, I am just a conduit. I am fortunate to possess this
talent and thank God for it.
If I try too hard, the inspiration dissipates. It has to flow like a river. I
know when I've written something good and I know when it is contrived. I suppose
this is an element of your path that reflects this, and yet not being a "fan" of
Eckankar (to say the least) when you talk about music and art, it certainly
rings true.
Alf
Al Radzik
eckboogieman wrote:
Everyone has value, eckboogieman. I've learned a lot from people, even the people here. Some good,
some bad. Doug seems to have more patience and clarity than most. That's why I choose to respond to
him.
Viva la difference!
Alf
Doug Marman
Alf, I can completely relate to what you say. I play the keyboard, and have
played music since a child. It has often been my oracle, since it opens up
areas of awareness that only seem to come when composing music.
Like you say, I always find a mix of my own consciousness and something
beyond me coming through the music. I think that is the way of all
expressions here in this world. I see the same with spiritual teachings as
well, whether ECKANKAR's or those of other teachers. When we see too much of
the personality it can intefere with being able to hear what is coming from
beyond - but as I've grown older I've come to see the value in the mixture
of the personal with the universal. Somehow the interplay between the two is
what life in this world is about.
Rumi once said that our awareness is like a net the catches and pulls things
out of the sea. When the net is woven properly we can catch things that
transport us and at the same time more deeply reveal to us what is right
around us and within us. I think the practice of composing music, just like
creative writing, has always been a great way for weaving the net, for me.
Thanks for sharing. I've enjoyed these posts.
Doug.
Doug Marman
"eckboogieman" <eckboo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c875ffe3.0303...@posting.google.com...
Yes, it must be the End Times... <G>
I like that.
So, when do the End Times start? <G>
Doug.