The unclean Qur'an

[Rev Gadfly]

Jidan wrote:
>
> Rev Gadfly wrote:
>
> > > > Allah is merely the tribal deity of Mohammed's family.

J.
>
> you worship the pagan german tribal god Gott since english is just a bastardized
> version of german.

RevG

I don't worship anything stupid. I believe in God, but not your
fairy tale character.

> > >
> >
> > J.
> > > give me a break. "YHVH is the tribal deity of the hebrews"
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > YHWH was the tribal deity of many people; just another bronze age
> > sky pixie.
>

J.
> and the only God is really ANOTHER God which is to uncaring to communicate his will to
> humans
> or too IMMORAL to compose what he wants from us or too IMPOTENT to implement his will
> he's contemptuous!
> if your concept of God is true then Neitzche is right and God is Dead

RevG

Your religion is based on the idea of the weak god; your WE tried
with the Jews and failed, then tried with the Christians and
failed again; now it's third time up to the plate. Islam is an
admission of an incompetent god.

Nietzsche is beyond your understanding. When he refers to "God is
Dead" he is talking about the God concept; which Jews,
Christians, and Muslims have rendered impotent.

J.
>
> Atheist say dowhatchyalike there is NO GOD to punish
> Jews say dowhatchyalike There is a God, but NO HELL
> Christians say dowhatchyalike there is Hell but IT'S NOT FOR US
> Hindus say dowhatchyalike you get to keep trying until you get it right
> and now a "deist" says there is a God but NOTHING IS A SIN!

RevG

So. And deists are right, there is no sin. That is a term which
priests like Mohammed invented to manipulate the weak willed.

Afterall, if sin is in the world, than God screwed up. But we
Deists don't accept your contention that God is a moron who could
not get it right.

J
>
> only muslims are unique among you in saying there is a RIGHT and WRONG and a punishment
> or reward in store for everyone.

RevG

Everyone says there is a right and a wrong stupid. Even Deists,
but we measure it by our Reason.

J.
> God declines to condemn murder, rape, theft, exploitation of the poor? making fun of
> the mentally ill?.
> That's not rational!

RevG

Why would God condemn anything! The whole Muslim world is nothing
but a pile of lice to God.

J
>
> Is God named, or did God choose a name for himself or will any pagan god's name suffice
> for him or is he unnamed and sits
> doing nothing but contemplating his own perfection?

RevG

The word "God" was used long before anyone heard of the Jews or
the Arabs.

J
>
> God's name is Allah. it is not masculine or feminine and can't be made plural. can you
> do better?

RevG

Certainly. "God" it isn't mas or fem. As for your Allah, Mohammed
repeatedly refers to Allah in the WE, therefore it is plural.

YOu have more than one god, it is right there in the pages of the
Qur'an.

>
> > > what they are doing in afghanistan is not Islamic and is opposed by the Muslim
> > > people of knowledge
> > > but that doesn't mean BOYCOTT
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > They would disagree with you. From their point of view they are
> > real Muslims.
>

J
> I didn't say they aren't Muslims. I said what they're DOING is unislamic
> everything is lawful except what is outlawed. show me where ISLAM says women can't
> work, or men can't have "western" haircuts.

RevG

They are pure Muslims; there is nothing unislamic about their
actions. They are simply taking Islam to its logical conclusion.
I am certain they would refute you along the grounds that women
can work in the house.

> > You don't get to decide who is Islamic and who
> > isn't. Last I heard you weren't appointed Judge of Islamic
> > peoples.
> >
>

J.
> straw man

RevG

Not at all. You don't get to decide what is islamic and what
isn't.

> > > > Mohammed invented a fictional god
>

J
> how is it that Muhammad (SAW) God is fictional and yours isn't?

RevG

Mohammed never seen any god; and you miss the point of Deism. We
never said any of us ever seen God.

J
> Muhammad conquered the arabs because they couldn't argue with the fact that "creator"
> was never an attribute attributed to any other
> pagan god they worshiped.

RevG

So you say; but they are not around to disagree are they??? No
you murdered them all.

> > J.
> > > God promised to raise a Prophet from Arabs in Duet 18:18 and Kedar (Arabs)
> > > are the trademark people for the Messiah in Isa 42 (cf Gen 25:13)
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > No, he never made any such promise. According to Deut. YHWH
> > promised to raise a prophet from among the Hebrews, that was
> > Joshua.
>

J
> no it says "from their Brethren" not from themselves, and Joshua never claimed to be
> "like moses"
> http://home.veloitus.net/yusuf/bible/likemoses.html

RevG

I can read the Torah nicely thank you. "The Lord your God will
raise up for you a prophet from among your own people, like
myself, him shall you heed."

One can see that this doesn't apply to Mohammed on several
grounds:
1) YHWH would not have left the Hebrews unguided for thousands of
years.
2) The people referred to are the Hebrews, not the Arabs.
3) Mohammed was in no way like Moses.
4) All prophecies in the Torah were timely, to be fulfilled
within the time frame of its author.

Joshua fits the prophecy; not Mohammed. Mohammed twisted the
meaning of this passage, which was fulfilled immediately after
the death of Moses in order to justify himself.

> > > > His family seen the profit
> > > > potential of the religion and turned it into a major corporation
> > >
> >
> > J.
> > > you know nothing of Islamic history. we were boycotted for "abandoning" idolatry
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > Which didn't last long.

J
>
> for 2 years. then chased to Medina and hunted by Quresh still!

RevG

Two years is a VERY, VERY, VERY, short time. The Jews on the
other hand were persecuted for centuries.

> > Mohammed by his death had conquered the
> > whole of Arabia and boycotted his opponents. Conversion to Islam
> > was the only way to make a profit afterwards. I have read my
> > history of the rise of Islam; how it taxed nonMuslims until they
> > became Muslims.
>

J
> taxation was token, and for protection in lieu of military service
> those who serve in the military to defend their country were exempt.

RevG

What difference does that make? It was profitable; Mohammed's
family ended up with a trade monopoly. How do you think the
Caliph's got so rich? They didn't win the lottery you know.

> >
> >
> > > > with themselves sitting on the board of directors.
> > > >
> > > > Your Qur'an is holy only in your mind. Its contradictions are
> > > > apparent to anyone who can read. For example, it disagrees as to
> > > > how long it took Allah to make the world:
> > > >
> > > > Six spans of time, vs. Eight spans of time, vs. Instantaneously.
> > >
> >
> > J.
> > > "world" is ambiguous. 2 spans for the Earth 6 spans for the universe (don't add
> > > them moron)
> > > and nothing disobeys him. he only says to it "BE" and it is.
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > The text has six spans verses eight spans; if there is a moron in
> > this, it is your prophet who couldn't remember his first lie and
> > invented a whole new one. Of course, he said on one hand that he
> > was the first Muslim, then on the other that Moses was the first
> > Muslim.
>

J
> chronologically Abraham was the first Submitter.
> linguistically ALL the prophets were THE FOREMOST MUSLIM

RevG

Abraham never existed; and if he did, he was no Muslim. To be a
Muslim one must practice the religion of Islam; if you have proof
for a historical Abraham who prayed towards Mecca five times a
day, feel free to share it with us.

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Truth is uniform, it in no way contradicts itself. For example:
> > > > 1+1=2, That is a truth, it doesn't equal six, it doesn't equal
> > > > eight, it doesn't equal 0.
> > > >
> > > > buwier
> > > > >
> > > > > You are just an insignificant character of denier of truth.
> > > >
> > > > RevG
> > > >
> > > > Contradictions don't exist in "Truth"; but they sure exist in
> > > > your Qur'an.
> > >
> >
> > J.
> > > God is Love
> > > love is blind
> > > Therefor GOD IS BLIND!
> > > all hail logic and HAM sandwiches!
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > Love is an abstraction which only exists in the human mind, and
> > is relative to the mind in question. Nietzsche pointed out that
> > "God was Dead"; if you read up on what he is saying you realize
> > that it is this: if one reduces God to an abstraction, than God
> > doesn't really exist.
>

J
> what is abstract?
> you come up with an abstract God.

RevG

You don't know what an abstraction is? To put it in its simplest
form, it is something which only exists in the minds of a
particular person. For example, Abstract art doesn't represent
the real, its meaning is supposedly found only in the mind of the
viewer.

Take Love for example, it has no meaning in and of itself; it is
connected to other things. Like loving one's spouse, that may
seem real to the lover, but it doesn't exist outside the mind of
the lover. Or beauty, only exists in the mind of the beholder --
as the cliché goes.

> > If God is Love, then God doesn't exist outside the human mind.
> >
> > > > According to Archaeology, Solomon never existed --
> > > > so much for the prophets who say he did.
> > >
> >
> > J.
> > > and Solomon's (AS) Temple was built by who? the tooth fairy?
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > The Jewish priesthood had a temple, they credited it to a myth;
> > anyone who disagreed ended up stoned to death. Archaeology shows
> > that if solomon existed, then he existed in the 10th century BCE;
> > but Jerusalem was uninhabited in that century, and Judah had no
> > more than 20 villages. Solomon is like King Arthur; a myth, a
> > story invented to boost up the ego of the Jews. Reality shows
> > that Samaria, not Judah, was the advanced nation in the 10-8th
> > centuries BCE; there never was a unified Israel.
>

J.
> where do you get this?

RevG

Journal of Biblical Archaeology and similar literature. For an
excellent summary which can be used as a base, try
The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel
and The Origin of its Sacred Texts. by Israel Finkelstein and
Neil Asher Silberman
The Free Press, New York, 2001.

I especially like what they have to say about the Philistines.

> >
> > > > buwier
> > > > > You were there centuries ago, you are here in this present time and perhaps
> > > > > you will be
> > > > > there till the judgement day.
> > > >
> > > > RevG
> > > >
> > > > You are a Muslim because either you were raised to be one; Or,
> > > > you are mentally unbalanced and cannot face life without hanging
> > > > onto silly superstitions.
> > > >
> > > > As Pilate asked Jesus: "What is Truth".
> > > >
> > > > Your Qur'an claims to be true; but cannot demonstrate it without
> > > > threats and name calling. Your religion is decadent, Iran,
> > > > Afghanistan, are just expressions of the decay of Islam. In
> > > > another century, Islam will be unrecognizable.
> > >
> >
> > J
> > > in another century England and the US could be Muslim then what?
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > Unlikely. Your superstition is loosing it hold on the Muslims
> > over here.
>

J
> Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK and the USA white converts outnumber
> black converts 2:1
> There is nothing superstitious about Islam. all do do is display your hate for revealed
> religions.

RevG

Please spare us the slogans. I personally know some Muslims and
they drink, smoke, etc. The great melting pot is changing Islam
in the west like it changed christianity.

> > Your young people are thinking for themselves. In
> > another century Islam in the western democracies will be another
> > minority religion; more and more people are waking up to the FACT
> > that the Qur'an, like the bible, is a book of fables. Secular
> > nations breed secular minded people. Your clerics can't murder
> > women over here for refusing to cover their bodies; as such,
> > Islam looses its teeth.
> >
> > > > Maybe muslims will
> > > > stop mistreating women and for once in their history treat them
> > > > with respect.
> > >
> >
> > J
> > > maybe the west should enact laws "equal pay for equal work" women only get 65% of
> > > a man's income in the west
> >
> > RevG
> >
> > At least women are not forced out of university or professions
> > like your model muslim states of Iran and Afghanistan.
>

J
> show me where ISLAM says to do that?
> you utterly FAIL to demonstrate it.

RevG

Islam can't say anything, anymore than Nazism can. Only
ideologues speak.

> > If there is a nuclear war in the future; it will be Muslim states
> > nuking each other out of existence to see who is the better
> > Muslim.

J
>
> no, it will be Indians or Jews nuking Muslims

RevG

Unlikely; Muslim brotherly love is too strong for them to wait
for non Muslims to blast them to dust. Just look at how Iraq uses
chemical weapons on their fellow Muslims. What was the last tally
of one of your religious wars? something like a million dead.

> > Just look at all the wars Muslims have had with each other; you
> > are no better than Christians.
>

J
> Saddam is not a Muslim. who are you accusing?

RevG

Saddam IS A MUSLIM. He even goes to the mosque to pray. Idi Amin
is also a Muslim; but that didn't stop him from practicing
cannibalism. But its ok for the Ugandan cannibal, apparently he
didn't eat any Muslim meat.

peace

Rev Gadfly

--
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other.
They slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse
and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings.
Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with
deceitful
nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to
its
side." -- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)

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