Re: God is love.
Pastor Frank
news:Mridnc4SW4Udsa_V...@ptd.net...
>
> What does it mean for God to be love?
> I don't know why so many people think
> they know what God is
> without ever falling in love with God.
>
Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love is
not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender the
close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone who
understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish. I love to
read your posts.
Thom Madura
Monkfish has managed to prove that god is NOT love.
monkfish
Are you getting desperate?
Have you ever loved anyone in your life?
--
monkfish
* The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology.
** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
bob young
..............but he has shown, time and time again. that
followers of 'gods' really love themselves
monkfish
> Thom Madura wrote:
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>> > "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> What does it mean for God to be love?
>> >> I don't know why so many people think
>> >> they know what God is
>> >> without ever falling in love with God.
>> >>
>> > Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love
>> > is not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender
>> > the close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone
>> > who understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish.
>> > I love to read your posts.
>>
>> Monkfish has managed to prove that god is NOT love.
>
> ..............but he has shown, time and time again. that
> followers of 'gods' really love themselves
Thanks.
We even love our enemies.
How about you?
Pastor Frank
news:48342f5e$0$15198$607e...@cv.net...
invisible creature in the sky, which obviously doesn't exist. Our Christian
God (read ideal to live up to) is love (1 John 4:8,16).
Pastor Frank
> Thom Madura wrote:
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere> wrote in message
>>> news:Mridnc4SW4Udsa_V...@ptd.net...
>>>>
>>>> What does it mean for God to be love?
>>>> I don't know why so many people think
>>>> they know what God is
>>>> without ever falling in love with God.
>>>
>>> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love
>>> is not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender
>>> the close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone
>>> who understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish. I
>>> love to read your posts.
>>
>> Monkfish has managed to prove that god is NOT love.
>
> Are you getting desperate?
> Have you ever loved anyone in your life?
>
his word for it. He apparently still labours under the infantile delusion,
that the word "god" indicates some invisible creature or other. It's obvious
however, that Thom's god or devil is the spirit of complaint, which
definitely exists. (Jude:1:16)
Pastor Frank
> monkfish wrote:
>> Thom Madura wrote:
>>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere> wrote in message
>>>> news:Mridnc4SW4Udsa_V...@ptd.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> What does it mean for God to be love?
>>>>> I don't know why so many people think
>>>>> they know what God is
>>>>> without ever falling in love with God.
>>>>
>>>> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love
>>>> is not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender
>>>> the close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone
>>>> who understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish.
>>>> I
>>>> love to read your posts.
>>>
>>> Monkfish has managed to prove that god is NOT love.
>>
>> Are you getting desperate?
>> Have you ever loved anyone in your life?
>
>
In your case god is indeed not love, but internal complaint. It is what
those in hell do.
Pastor Frank
news:483565C9...@netvigator.com...
something positive? Everything you say is always a complaint of sorts,
especially about others not living up to your expectations. What do you
want, Bob? How do you want Christians to evidence their love for you? Will
you be satisfied if they gave you all their money?
Pastor Frank
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord
and Saviour. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of
love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see
in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
And no, we won't send you all our money as "objective, verifiable
evidence", to prove our love for you. That's what you are after, aren't you?
You will just have to believe us, that we answer your posts because we
love you in the Lord and that this loving action evidences our God, whose
essence is that very love and care we show others.
Thom Madura
How many quotes from the Egyptian Book of the dead and from Isis and
Osiris would be needed to convince you to join that religion?
Pastor Frank
news:DlWZj.14904$hv2....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> "Thom Madura" <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:48346558$0$11602$607e...@cv.net...
>> monkfish wrote:
>>>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>>>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Mridnc4SW4Udsa_V...@ptd.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does it mean for God to be love?
>>>>>> I don't know why so many people think
>>>>>> they know what God is
>>>>>> without ever falling in love with God.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love
>>>>> is not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender
>>>>> the close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone
>>>>> who understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish.
>>>>> I love to read your posts.
>>>>
>>>> Monkfish has managed to prove that god is NOT love.
>
> God fanatics constantly make the claim the wonders and complexity of the
> world is proof of God's love.
>
God is the perfection of love we are to live up to, not some invisible
creature in the sky, which doesn't live up to your expectations.
Pastor Frank
>> Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
>> therefore know our God and have seen Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord
>> and Saviour. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
>> Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of
>> love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we
>> see
>> in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
>> And no, we won't send you all our money as "objective, verifiable
>> evidence", to prove our love for you. That's what you are after, aren't
>> you?
>> You will just have to believe us, that we answer your posts because we
>> love you in the Lord and that this loving action evidences our God, whose
>> essence is that very love and care we show others.
>
> How many quotes from the Egyptian Book of the dead and from Isis and
> Osiris would be needed to convince you to join that religion?
>
single philosophy or Religion is a new invention. That fact does not
invalidate them, but rather does the opposite.
bob young
"All that is necessary, as it seems to me, to convince any
reasonable person that the Bible is simply and purely of
human invention -- of barbarian invention -- is to read it.
Read it as you would any other book; think of it as you
would of any other, get the bandage of reverence from your
eyes; drive from your heart the phantom of fear; push from
the throne of your brain the cowed form of superstition --
then read the Holy bible, and you will be amazed that you
ever, for one moment, suppose a being of infinite wisdom,
goodness and purity to be the author of such ignorance and
such atrocity."
[Robert Ingersoll (from his essay 'The Gods')]
Jefferson on the Bible:
Read it as you would read any other book With an open,
thoughtful mind, as Thomas Jefferson advised his nephew: "In
the first place, divest yourself of all bias in favor of
novelty and singularity of opinion. Indulge them in any
other subject rather than that of religion. It is too
important, and the consequences of error may be too serious.
On the other hand, shake off all the fears and servile
prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched.
Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal
every fact, every opinion.
Try it Frank, but i doubt you ever will
monkfish
They seem to have blind faith in reason.
Thom Madura
But what it does do is call into question the validity of the "quotes"
made up to support the newer religions - obviously they don't want to
admit that when they SAY they are quoting the christ - they are quoting
Buddha. Another good reason why there is almost no support documentation
for the bible - or any religious bible. A smart god would have had a
scribe along for the ride - and LOTS of true witnesses.
For example
From Buddha
Revere your enemies as you revere your parents.
―The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra
Pastor Frank
> bob young wrote:
>> Pastor Frank wrote:
>>> "Thom Madura" <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:48381341$0$11619$607e...@cv.net...
>>> >
reasoning kills love. See below. I mean, who wants to be loved
objectively, logically, factually and reasonably?
Pastor Frank
"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has".
"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees
must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."
- MARTIN LUTHER
Pastor Frank
the subject, let alone discuss it rationally.
Thom Madura
Martin Luther was nothing more than an excommunicated Heretic - and not
worth his opinion - which is ALL it is to begin with. If you want to
quote a murderer about criminal sentences - be prepared for a skewed
response.
What is clear is that religion has wanted people to reject reason -
because when people use their education and intelligence to reason -
they reject religion because it cannot be justified.
However - there is no basis for rejecting reason.
monkfish
> However - there is no basis for rejecting reason.
There might not be reasonable basis to reject reason.
But there are plenty of unreasonable bases to do so.
Do you love your children only when it's reasonable to do so?
bob young
THAT coming from you has to be the joke of the year
Pastor Frank
Does that invalidate what he says?
Pastor Frank
> "Andrew" <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote in message
> news:2008052423164475249-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
>> On 2008-05-24 15:34:47 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> said:
>>>
>>> Learn to read.
>>
>> I have done Bill. Sentence after tedious sentence. Over and over again.
>> And you still don't seem to understand what "objective" and "verifiable"
>> actually mean. Take, for example, those times when you start a point with
>> "Would any real god....". In what sense could that conceivably be either
>> "objective" or "verfiable"?
>
> Rattle on with your nonsense!
>
I got lots of real gods, and all are for sale, because they would not
lift one wooden finger for me. Make me an offer!
Pastor Frank
> What is clear is that religion has wanted people to reject reason -
> because when people use their education and intelligence to reason - they
> reject religion because it cannot be justified.
> However - there is no basis for rejecting reason.
>
You should be writing a book about all the famous people who are
"nothing more" something or other, instead of wasting your life posting
downers to religious groups.
bob young
It proves you have no support documentation for The Bible
[see above conveniently ignored]
bob young
Go away you silly old fool. This subject is for The Intelligencia
Frank claims, 'The god that begot Mary and produced Jesus
was the result of an insemination by a god that is simply
'love'. There is no Father in heaven, that is old
fashioned; even though the Bible Frank quotes so readily has
Jesus raise his eyes to heaven saying "Father Father why
hast though deserted me"
[Frank's dictum rather bears out claims made by some others
around here that Mary was having a bog standard fling with
another human]
Are we supposed to take him seriously !
LOL
Thom Madura
It is not beyond the scope of the believers to do with the bible as they
have with the religion - treat it cafeteria style. They have now over
1500 sects of the christian religion recognized - and maybe as many as
5000 not recognized - and one can pick what they choose to believe by
choosing the sect that we agree with closest - and then ignore what they
don't agree with.
Same with the bible. They will quote out of context - using only the
words they want to - and skip around - ignoring the things they don't
want to admit are there. They call the old testament archaic - but it
was put there at the same time as everything else in the christian bible
- and it includes the 20 Commandments (Two different sets of ten that
are supposed to be identical according to their god) - which they all use.
But to answer your question-
No - nobody with real intelligence will take the bible seriously - a
propaganda reference book with nothing to REFER to written under the
orders of a ROMAN emperor to sort out the doctrines of the religion -
yeah right! More likely - it was the first attempt to bring all the
preachers together under one roof - and start the dynasty of terror.
Well - at least nobody can do it with a straight face!
monkfish
God is not going to force you to believe.
You have to come to God freely.
Would you like to love your neighbor
and even your enemies?
monkfish
Is that why you appear to be crying?
Pastor Frank
religions and philosophies and their literature. Many atheists love to cite
the Egyptian Book of the Dead for example as a supporting source of the
Bible.
Pastor Frank
Union, claiming the lives of untold millions, and now you want to establish
it again, outlawing religion?
Pastor Frank
> LEST WE FORGET: Atheists mass murdered over 100 million people
> in the last 83 years of the 20th century alone? You can find a
> most illuminating and interesting summary of historical mass murder
> at http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/.
> The combined killings done by Jews, Christians, and Moslems
> throughout history don't compare with the slaughter perpetrated
> by atheists in a single century.
Pastor Frank
i.e. me!!" ROFL
Adonis
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:641b8$483e15c4$d1d89a53$31...@PRIMUS.CA...
Why dont you look at this Frank.
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.doc
bob young
Down to using my material now are we?
[i nearly added, 'shame on you', forgetting, of course,
that you do not have any]
>
Thom Madura
WE have the biggest dynasty of terror in the theist middle east where
religion supports the terrorists. Remember - communism is not atheistic
- Lenin never meant it to be and he did not attempt to control religion.
Frank - somewhere you have to realize that these regimes are not about
religion - they are about power and control - and it would not make a
difference if Stalin had been a Christian like Hitler(who proclaimed
himself a Roman Catholic).
Adonis
Frank, have you taken the time to look at this?
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.doc
If you are as open minded as you are trying to say you are, you will.
Pastor Frank
> On 2008-05-28 11:58:02 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com> said:
>> Andrew wrote:
>>>
>>> No, I'm not. I'm saying that it requires a shared agreement about what
>>> would constitute verifiable evidence. That would, in turn, require
>>> agreement as to what God is and how he operates. This is not impossible
>>> in principle, but in practice may prove difficult to achieve.
>>>
>>>> Well, that is what we have been saying all along
>>>> Are you also claiming that it is right and proper for
>>>> millions of people, including young impressionable children,
>>>> to be inculcated with godly dictums and claims without
>>>> providing a jot of evidence as to the existence of that god?
>>>> Yes or NO
>>
Absolutely yes to the dictums of Christ as per below. Also, we evidence
our God every time we answer your abusive posts.
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command..."
Thom Madura
Buddha
Revere your enemies as you revere your parents.
--The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra
500 years before the christ.
Plagiarism at its highest!!!
w...@where.com
you do not believe he is "love."
Looove that logic. :o)
- Strawman -
--
http://www.americanvandals.com
Adonis
Chapter 0. Introduction
For two or three centuries, many Protestants have given figures concerning the
total number of people killed directly or indirectly by the Papacy during the
Middle Ages. The numbers given include 50 million, 68 million, 100 million, 120
million, and 150 million. Roman Catholics typically give much smaller numbers.
Frequently the figures are stated without any information about where they came
from or how they were computed. The purpose of this note is to describe where
some of these figures come from and to comment on their reliability. Surely
nearly all Roman Catholics as well as Protestants disapprove of past religious
persecutions, so this discussion should not reflect negatively on current
members of the Roman Catholic Church. However, events in Nazi Germany show how
easily persecution can revive, so it is necessary to be on guard against it and
maintain an awareness of its history. Of course, many other groups besides the
Papacy have persecuted. And all of us, without Christ, have the roots of sin in
ourselves. The reason the Papacy stands out is that it has ruled for such a
long period of time over such a large area, exercised so much power, and claimed
divine prerogatives for its persecutions. The magnitude of the persecutions is
important for the following reason: One can excuse a few thousand cases as
exceptional, but millions and millions of victims can only be the result of a
systematic policy, thereby showing the harmful results of church-state unions.
Andrew
I'm inclined to agree. I've never got my head round the idea that while
God chose to enter his creation in the life of a carpenter's son, the
Church should seek temporal power and the status of potentate. Don't
try to outguess God - it just goes pear-shaped.
monkfish
Don't worry about the messenger so much.
Do you like the message well enough?
Adonis
main point is that it is a common debate/argument ( used in this group ) that an
atheist is more the likely to kill or steal, or any type of hatred against our
fellow man. Stalin being the biggie, dear Frank loves to use Stalin. I find it
interesting this persons paper which took a great deal of work to produce; who
is what appears to be religious has taken upon himself to write a work that can
hurt the reputation of an organization he may belong to. It's not a pro religion
web site. It's not a pro atheist web site. It is neutral in that regard.
Thom Madura
But it is not true
In "The New Criminology", Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith say that
two generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts
without religious training is about 1/10 of 1%. W. T. Root, professor
of psychology at the Univ. of Pittsburgh, examined 1,916 prisoners and
said "Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character,"
adding that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers are absent
from penitentiariers or nearly so.
During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65%
Catholics,26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1%
non-religious.
Steiner and Swancara surveyed Canadian prisons and found 1,294
Catholics, 435 Anglicans, 241 Methodists, 135 Baptists, and 1 Unitarian.
Christians are far more likely to commit crime than non-religous.
Pastor Frank
> Pastor Frank wrote:
>> "Andrew" <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote in message
>> news:2008052817550975249-thecroft@macunlimitednet dictums
>>> On 2008-05-28 11:58:02 +0100, bob young <alasp...@netvigator.com>
>>> said:
>>>> Andrew wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I'm not. I'm saying that it requires a shared agreement about what
>>>>> would constitute verifiable evidence. That would, in turn, require
>>>>> agreement as to what God is and how he operates. This is not
>>>>> impossible
>>>>> in principle, but in practice may prove difficult to achieve.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that is what we have been saying all along
>>>>>> Are you also claiming that it is right and proper for
>>>>>> millions of people, including young impressionable children,
>>>>>> to be inculcated with godly dictums and claims without
>>>>>> providing a jot of evidence as to the existence of that god?
>>>>>> Yes or NO
>>>>
>> Absolutely yes to the dictums of Christ as per below. Also, we
>> evidence our God every time we answer your abusive posts.
>>
>> one
>> another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
>> Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my
>> disciples,
>> if ye have love one to another.
>> Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one
>> another,
>> as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay
>> down
>> his life for his friends.
>> Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command..."
>
> Buddha
> Revere your enemies as you revere your parents.
> --The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra
> 500 years before the christ.
> Plagiarism at its highest!!!
>
Instead of dismissing him and Christ as "plagiarists" , you should join us
in praise and worship of those who advocate and demonstrate these eternal
principles so magnificently and effectively.
James
>Re: God is love.
>Pastor Frank wrote:
>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere> wrote in message
>> news:Mridnc4SW4Udsa_V...@ptd.net...
>>>
>>> What does it mean for God to be love?
>>> I don't know why so many people think
>>> they know what God is
>>> without ever falling in love with God.
>>>
>> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love
>> is not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender
>> the close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone
>> who understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish. I
>> love to read your posts.
>
>Monkfish has managed to prove that god is NOT love.
Hello,
Yet, Jesus said that God was love. Joh 3:16,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
life." (KJV)
Many people take Jesus' words, over that of imperfect men, who cannot
offer salvation to anyone. Ps 146:3,
"Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no
salvation." (NASB)
Sincerely, James
If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I do
not follow all conversations in ng threads
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses Questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Pastor Frank
news:guidnXd4WMPAUN3V...@comcast.com...
>
> Interesting thought, although the god thing.................cant go there.
values, and that reference is your god or devil. You are either more law
oriented or more love oriented. Jesus Christ is totally love oriented, and
Paul speaks about the curse of the law, because the law tells you only what
NOT to do and the punishments for doing it, whereas love tells you what to
do and the rewards for doing it.
This is philosophy and you either love philosophy or hate and avoid it.
I love it and therefore post to spiritual groups. Most atheists are addicted
to negative thinking and intent on trashing and flaming what others love and
hold holy. Why are you posting here?
Thom Madura
Again - you show no understanding of Atheists at all.
Atheists are the positive thinkers of the world - they are the ones that
discover and develop things. It is the theists who think they have the
ultimate answer to everything that attempt to stiffle science from
continuing to explain once "god created" things is real and testable
manner. The theists turn their heads and ignore reality in favor of
regurgitating beliefs that - if they really opened their eyes - are
obviously wrong.
You should READ your old testament again to see that your god cannot be
simply described as love. YOUR RELIGION wanted you to know he was
ruthless, mean, uncaring, unforgiving, vengeful, and evil - because they
included those passages in your bible. Then, visit a children's
hospital. How can a loving god do all those bad things to small innocent
children?
It is one thing to say things - reality is another thing. You can claim
all the nice things for your god - but your god doesn't back them up
with actions.
monkfish
Playing "god" again?
Your "god" does not exist.
Does the message of Jesus exist?
Adonis
on atheist being negative thinking and intent on trashing is poppy cock. The
fact is all I read in your posts is the very same thing you place on some one
who does not believe in your god. I don't think that is showing love. I've said
it before, I'll say it again, you are quite the closed minded individual.
According to your bible; faith and love is not enough. Speaking on faith, it
means a strong belief, so stop trying to make it more than it is.
Tom Snyder
Atheism versus Christianity
Atheists like to promote the false argument that religion has killed more
innocent people than any other force in the history of mankind.
Is that really true about those people professing the Christian religion?
Actually, according to Vox Day in THE IRRATIONAL ATHEIST, atheist regimes in
the 20th Century alone killed and murdered about 153.3 million people for
philosophical, political and economic reasons, while in 2,000 years people
mis-representing the Christian faith killed and murdered only about 1.65
million, or 93 times less the number of people in 20 centuries compared to
only one century!!!
Democide* Statistics, Christianity vs. Atheism
Atheist Democide in 1 century - 153.36 million people
Christian Democide in 20 centuries - 1.65 million people
* Democide includes genocide, political killings and murders, and mass
murder.
Of course, atheist regimes also build hospitals, schools and cities, but so
do Christians and Christian nations. Even Hollywood, which is located by the
way in a city built by Christians called Los Angeles or City of the Angels,
recognizes this fact. After all, have your ever heard of the TV show ST.
ELSEWHERE?
Clearly, however, atheist authoritarianism is inimical to the lives of all
people. And, atheists should stop their vicious, deceitful slander of
Christianity and Christians.
- Source: www.godandscience.org.
Atheism clearly leads to mass murder. Don't believe the slanderous lies of
atheists!
By the way, contrary to what some pseudo-intellectual atheists claim,
religious wars only account for 7% of all the wars throughout all of
recorded history! Atheists should look in the mirror and take out the plank
in their own eyes.
ts
"Thom Madura" <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:48440f77$0$25020$607e...@cv.net...
Thom Madura
> http://www.movieguide.org/index.php?s=news&id=413
>
> Atheism versus Christianity
>
> Atheists like to promote the false argument that religion has killed
> more innocent people than any other force in the history of mankind.
Not true at all.
WE merely point out that religion HAS killed innocent people - through
war - human sacrifice - and hate. If religion was so noble - it would
not have done that - even if it did not set a record.
>
> Of course, atheist regimes also build hospitals, schools and cities, but
> so do Christians and Christian nations. Even Hollywood, which is located
> by the way in a city built by Christians called Los Angeles or City of
> the Angels, recognizes this fact.
And that only proves that there are good people on this earth - not that
religion has made them that way.
Religion likes to attribute every good things their followers have done
to belief - and ignore all the bad- which is nonsense.
People are capable of doing good - even when there is not threat of
eternal damnation hanging over their heads.
>
> Clearly, however, atheist authoritarianism is inimical to the lives of
> all people. And, atheists should stop their vicious, deceitful slander
> of Christianity and Christians.
Christians have dismissed and eliminated - EVERY christian religion.
They have also eliminated every other religion and every god.
Christians have had their time when they controlled large parts of the
world - and they proved they are incapable of it.
Pastor Frank
>
> In "The New Criminology", Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith say that two
> generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts without
> religious training is about 1/10 of 1%. W. T. Root, professor of
> psychology at the Univ. of Pittsburgh, examined 1,916 prisoners and said
> "Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character," adding
> that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers are absent from
> penitentiariers or nearly so.
> During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65%
> Catholics,26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1%
> non-religious.
> Steiner and Swancara surveyed Canadian prisons and found 1,294
> Catholics, 435 Anglicans, 241 Methodists, 135 Baptists, and 1 Unitarian.
> Christians are far more likely to commit crime than non-religous.
>
used in the survey, and how many understood the meaning of words like
Unitarian and atheist etc. let alone knowing what values their chosen
denomination advocates. I bet had he gone into an insane asylum he would
have found by far most inmates to be non-religious in any meaningful way.
It's always amazing to behold to what contortions atheists will go, to
prove the non-existence of their infantile invisible ogre in the sky god.
Thom Madura
You are wrong about the insane asylum as well
> It's always amazing to behold to what contortions atheists will go,
> to prove the non-existence of their infantile invisible ogre in the sky
> god.
No - It was stated that atheists commit more crimes that theists - and
the statistics are overwhelmingly against that statement - not just in
this country - but around the world. It continues to amaze me that
theists change the subject when confronted with evidence against their
statements.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> >
> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love is
> not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender the
> close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone who
> understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish. I love to
> read your posts.
I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than a
human emotion?
Is the devil "sadness"?
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> Buddha got his stuff from the Vedas, thousands of years older than him.
> Instead of dismissing him and Christ as "plagiarists" , you should join us
> in praise and worship of those who advocate and demonstrate these eternal
> principles so magnificently and effectively.
But they are dead. They know nothing of your praise or your worship.
Andrew
> In alt.religion.christian Pastor Frank <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>>
>> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love is
>> not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender the
>> close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone who
>> understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish. I love to
>> read your posts.
>
> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than a
> human emotion?
You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
Andrew
> In alt.religion.christian Pastor Frank <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>
>> Buddha got his stuff from the Vedas, thousands of years older than him.
>> Instead of dismissing him and Christ as "plagiarists" , you should join us
>> in praise and worship of those who advocate and demonstrate these eternal
>> principles so magnificently and effectively.
>
>
> But they are dead. They know nothing of your praise or your worship.
Oh. well, that's all right then. We shouldn't value them at all. Dead bastards!
monkfish
> In alt.religion.christian Pastor Frank <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> Well said!! Love is a key to God. Unfortunately for atheists love
>> is
>> not a matter of intellect, and no amount of knowledge will engender the
>> close intimacy with God that love does. It's rare to find anyone who
>> understands this, and you are quite remarkable in this, monkfish. I love
>> to read your posts.
>
> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than a
> human emotion?
>
> Is the devil "sadness"?
What makes you think love is just an emotion?
What kind of statement is "God is love"?
Satan is more like laziness than sadness.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
If your world is black and white, your answer is correct. However, normal
people recognize that there are infinite gradiations between giving things
to dead people and holding them out as valueless.
I suppose your choices are now clear: Agree with me, hook, line and
sinker, or reject everything I have ever said. Living in your binary world
must be easy compared to living in the real world.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> > I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than a
> > human emotion?
> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
"God is love"?
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> What makes you think love is just an emotion?
Ummm........A lifetime of speaking english?
Please supply a definition if I have it wrong.
bob young
Don't you mean 'Some of the ancients writing their
individual stories that finished up in a compendium that
hundreds of years later was called The Bible, implied an
active concern for others?'
Which after all is a normal human characteristic.
The compendium I refer to does not in itself 'talk' as
Christian so frequently claim
Andrew
>>> But they are dead. They know nothing of your praise or your worship.
>
>> Oh. well, that's all right then. We shouldn't value them at all. Dead bastards!
>
> If your world is black and white, your answer is correct. However, normal
> people recognize that there are infinite gradiations between giving things
> to dead people and holding them out as valueless.
>
> I suppose your choices are now clear: Agree with me, hook, line and
> sinker, or reject everything I have ever said. Living in your binary world
> must be easy compared to living in the real world.
Sorry. I was attempting irony there. Sadly I seem to have failed to
communicate that.
Andrew
>>> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than a
>>> human emotion?
>
>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>
> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
> "God is love"?
God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
Thom Madura
No - that is love - not god.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
Is that what created Heaven and Earth? Is that what impregnated Mary?
monkfish
> In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote:
>
>> > I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than
>> > a human emotion?
>
>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>
> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
> "God is love"?
Only if we can agree on what God is.
Why?
Because God is the ultimate point of reference.
What is your ultimate point of reference?
monkfish
> In alt.religion.christian monkfish <monkfish@nowhere> wrote:
>
>> What makes you think love is just an emotion?
>
> Ummm........A lifetime of speaking english?
>
> Please supply a definition if I have it wrong.
Love is also an attitude, commitment,
and the reason for being, etc.
You are here because of the love of your parents.
Godly love is why we are all here.
Do you feel loved?
monkfish
That sounds like a conscience.
God is much more than that.
But that's a good place to start.
monkfish
Is that love detectable?
Andrew
And God is love - see? It works.
Andrew
> In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote:
>
>> God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
>
> Is that what created Heaven and Earth? Is that what impregnated Mary?
In a sense, yes. But it is a bit more than that.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> On 2008-06-04 18:35:18 +0100, EskW...@spamblock.panix.com said:
> > In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote:
> >
> >> God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
> >
> > Is that what created Heaven and Earth? Is that what impregnated Mary?
> In a sense, yes. But it is a bit more than that.
I see. So that in man which encourages us to act with care is that which
created man? ANd the heavans?
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> > In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote:
> >
> >> > I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than
> >> > a human emotion?
> >
> >> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
> >> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
> >> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
> >
> > Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
> > "God is love"?
> Only if we can agree on what God is.
> Why?
> Because God is the ultimate point of reference.
Nonsense.
<Plonk>
bob young
Seemed rather closer to sarcasm to me Andrew
and you know what they say about that !?
bob young
...............you can say that again !
Pastor Frank
news:g24g0e$j8g$2...@reader2.panix.com...
> In alt.religion.christian Pastor Frank <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Buddha got his stuff from the Vedas, thousands of years older than
>> him.
>> Instead of dismissing him and Christ as "plagiarists" , you should join
>> us
>> in praise and worship of those who advocate and demonstrate these eternal
>> principles so magnificently and effectively.
>
> But they are dead. They know nothing of your praise or your worship.
>
testify to that fact.
Andrew
Yeah, I know. It's my only weakness ;-)
Andrew
> In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote:
>> On 2008-06-04 18:35:18 +0100, EskW...@spamblock.panix.com said:
>
>>> In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thec...@macunlimited.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
>>>
>>> Is that what created Heaven and Earth? Is that what impregnated Mary?
>
>> In a sense, yes. But it is a bit more than that.
>
>
> I see. So that in man which encourages us to act with care is that which
> created man? ANd the heavans?
You mean the place where we live? Yes.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> They are not dead.
Why does your ilk like so much to twist words?
They live on in all of us, and our hearts and minds
> testify to that fact.
For some unusual meanings of "alive" and "dead" you are correct. But you
produce more smoke than fire.
Dubh Ghall
You must understand, Esk: Frank KNOWS that his god, is imaginary, yet still tries to
pretend it is real, by the use of silly word games.
--
The spelling, like any opinion stated here
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
EskW...@spamblock.panix.com
> You must understand, Esk: Frank KNOWS that his god, is imaginary, yet still tries to
> pretend it is real, by the use of silly word games.
I knew that there was somthing not quite right there, but couldn't put my
finger on it. Thanks.
What's the story with Monkfish?
Adonis
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:cbc21$48483381$d1d89a6d$55...@PRIMUS.CA...
anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is
forgotten. 6. As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is perished
long ago; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done
under the sun.
monkfish
What makes you think
you already know of everything that's real?
Dubh Ghall
>In alt.religion.christian Dubh Ghall <pu...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
>
>> You must understand, Esk: Frank KNOWS that his god, is imaginary, yet still tries to
>> pretend it is real, by the use of silly word games.
>
>I knew that there was somthing not quite right there, but couldn't put my
>finger on it. Thanks.
>
>What's the story with Monkfish?
Dunno, I kill-filed that one, about the time of his second post.
Pastor Frank
news:g262rq$a3u$4...@reader2.panix.com...
>> > a
>> > human emotion?
>
>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>
> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
> "God is love"?
>
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord
and Saviour. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of
love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see
in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
You will just have to believe us, that we answer your posts because we
love you in the Lord and that this loving action evidences our God, whose
essence is that very love and care we show others.
Pastor Frank
news:g262uj$a3u$5...@reader2.panix.com...
> In alt.religion.christian monkfish <monkfish@nowhere> wrote:
>>
>
> Ummm........A lifetime of speaking english?
> Please supply a definition if I have it wrong.
>
when love is "just" an emotion. But then to atheists everything seems to be:
"just" something or other, only, merely, or nothing more than etc. etc.
Thom Madura
And to theists - everything has to be bigger, more super, more deluxe,
more all encompassing - and only they understand what is going on.(lol)
Nonsense.
YOU obviously have a lot of misconceptions about atheists and
non-believers - as well as those that claim to believe.
Expecially when you are excommunicated heretic yourself who won't be saved.
bob young
................that's good news
bob young
The above is a clear cut and sad depiction
of what extreme religious dogma can do to the human brain.
In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions
are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without
examination, from authorities who have not themselves
examined the questions at issue but have taken them at
second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about
them were not worth a brass farthing.
[Mark Twain]
Dubh Ghall
><EskW...@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>news:g24g0e$j8g$2...@reader2.panix.com...
>> In alt.religion.christian Pastor Frank <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Buddha got his stuff from the Vedas, thousands of years older than
>>> him.
>>> Instead of dismissing him and Christ as "plagiarists" , you should join
>>> us
>>> in praise and worship of those who advocate and demonstrate these eternal
>>> principles so magnificently and effectively.
>>
>> But they are dead. They know nothing of your praise or your worship.
>>
> They are not dead.
Yes they are.
>They live on in all of us,
Rubbish!
Childish semantics!
You cannot even claim direct memory of them, all that you have is other peoples stories.
Dubh Ghall
>On 2008-06-04 13:46:51 +0100, EskW...@spamblock.panix.com said:
>
>>>> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than a
>>>> human emotion?
>>
>>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>>
>> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
>> "God is love"?
>
>God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
Odd that, because the NT tells us a different story; like in LUKE 19:27 " But those
mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them
before me."
Sort of; Love them to death?
Dubh Ghall
No.
Thom Madura
Agreed - Christians all assume their christ had long blonde hair and
blue eyes and light skin -= a highly unlikely thing.
OF course - since it was THEY who made him up - they can color him any
way they want to.
bob young
"The Ethiop gods have Ethiop lips, Bronze cheeks, and woolly
hair; The Grecian gods are like the Greeks, As keen-eyed,
cold and fair."
[Walter Bagehot]
Pastor Frank
news:g26jom$c7e$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
>
Pastor Frank
news:4846d1d3$0$11605$607e...@cv.net...
> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-06-04 13:46:51 +0100, EskW...@spamblock.panix.com said:
>>
>>>>> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more
>>>>> than a
>>>>> human emotion?
>>>
>>>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>>>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>>>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>>>
>>> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the
>>> sentence
>>> "God is love"?
>>
>
>
say is that love is not your God, ...though it should be, for Christ gave
his life by reason of his love for you.
Pastor Frank
news:2008060418065043658-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
> On 2008-06-04 13:46:51 +0100, EskW...@spamblock.panix.com said:
>
>>>> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more than
>>>> a
>>>> human emotion?
>>
>>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>>
>> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the sentence
>> "God is love"?
>
> God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward others.
>
and prove God.
Pastor Frank
> monkfish wrote:
>> Andrew wrote:
>>> On 2008-06-04 13:46:51 +0100, EskW...@spamblock.panix.com said:
>>>
>>>>>> I thought god was a supernatural being. Is he really nothing more
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> a human emotion?
>>>>> You thought wrong. The word translated as "love" in the Bible always
>>>>> implies an active concern for others. If it were simply a matter of
>>>>> emotion then "love your enemy" would make no sense at all.
>>>> Can you supply a definition of "love" as the word is used in the
>>>> sentence
>>>> "God is love"?
>>> God is that within us which encourages us to act with care toward
>>> others.
>>
>> God is much more than that.
>> But that's a good place to start.
>
> God is that within you that gives indigestion too.
>
No. That's of Satan. No wonder you are an atheist. Your understanding
of religious words and concepts is at best infantile.
monkfish
Can you prove that love even exists?