Boy Scouts Vote To Allow Gays

[Mitchell Holman]

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

[J]

This was voted upon by the BSA, not imposed by some judge with an
agenda. It is what it is, so be it.




J Young
jdyo...@ymail.com

Honesty. Decency. Integrity

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,

It's about fucking time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[harry]

On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47nomailverizon...@216.196.121.131>,

It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
potential victims.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <pgotp89pe3k4pknjr...@4ax.com>,

What does this decision have to do with pedophilia?

[Fidem Turbāre,]

In the USA, because judges are elected, one could argue for the
likelihood of said agenda being "re-election."

--
Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess
"I have made good judgements in the past. I have made good judgements
in the future."
-- Dan Quayle

[Fidem Turbāre,]

The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.

It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
as they do. The organization is defective and needs new leadership
that respects and embraces the personal freedoms of its membership.

--
Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists."
-- Dan Quayle

[Tom McDonald]

It's a start. I think a good start. But it's ultimately doomed to either
be expanded to allow gay leaders, or to go back to not allowing openly
gay youth as Scouts. As it stands, a gay young man can be a great Scout
until he turns 18, at which point he is, what, not a great Scout?

I hope the internal pressure of this contradiction will lead to opening
Scouting to gay adult leaders under the same regime of behavior expected
of straight leader. Time will tell.

BTW, FWIW, I am straight, an Eagle Scout, member of the Order of the
Arrow, and was an assistant Scoutmaster. I love me some Scouting, and
wish only that it will be open to anyone who wants to take part in it
under the guidance of the Laws and the Promise.

[Tom McDonald]

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.

[Attila Iskander]

"Jeanne Douglas" <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:hlwdjsd2-0E910D...@news.giganews.com...

Is that a new definition of bigot ?
Or is that the PC one ?

[Attila Iskander]

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com>
wrote in message
news:20130523234032.071f...@fidemturbare.com...

> On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:54:56 -0700
> J <jdyo...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:38:11 -0500, Mitchell Holman
>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>> >May 23 2013
>> >
>> >GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>> >Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>> >kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>> >popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>> >guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>> >Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>> >delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>> >BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>> >to 475 no.
>> >
>> >http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
>> >lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>
>> This was voted upon by the BSA, not imposed by some judge with an
>> agenda. It is what it is, so be it.
>
> In the USA, because judges are elected, one could argue for the
> likelihood of said agenda being "re-election."
>

Some are, some are not
Would you like to try again ?

[Attila Iskander]

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com>
wrote in message

news:20130523234312.18c1...@fidemturbare.com...

You always have the choice of joining and trying to change it
Alternately you can start something equivalent modified to meet your
standards.

Always funny to see people come along and criticize a group of people who
join together for whatever reasons , that don't meet the critics' standards.

[Attila Iskander]

"Tom McDonald" <kil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%%Hnt.57168$pU6....@newsfe10.iad...

Ironic that by definition an individual attracted to someone of the same sex
is NOT "straight".
But hey, let's not let little details like that get in the way.

[Mitchell Holman]

Fidem =?UTF-8?B?VHVyYsSBcmUs?= the non-existent atheist goddess
<god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote in
news:20130523234312.18c1...@fidemturbare.com:

> On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700
> Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,
>> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>> > May 23 2013
>> >
>> > GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>> > Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>> > kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>> > popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>> > guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>> > Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>> > delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>> > BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>> > to 475 no.
>> >
>> > http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-
>> > to- lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>
>> It's about fucking time!
>>
>> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
>> still a bigoted organization.
>
> The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
> it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.
>
> It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
> as they do.

It doesn't really matter.

The BSA has been shrinking for decades
and it will continue to shrink.

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/02/boy-scouts-at-100-years/

[Ben Kaufman]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

Hopefully, this will cause the extremist bigoted religionists to quit, so the
next vote will bring them fully into the 21st century.

Ben

[Ben Kaufman]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:50:24 -0700 (PDT), harry <harry...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

It seems like they've had pretty good access under the homophobic rules.

[PV]

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

--
PV

In Pierre Trudeau, Canada has finally produced
a Prime Minister worthy of assassination.
- Irving Layton

[diy savant]

Call A Baptist Pastor Immediately If You've Experienced The Following
Secret Invitation:

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0101/shake.html

[Doug]

What a bunch of homophobics. Being a former boy scout myself many
years ago, we didn't think about it then and for all I know, perhaps
some were gay then but were in the closet. So now it's just more
official, that's all. For me, as long as they keep their hands off,
let it be.

Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.

[Ben Kaufman]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:12:26 -0500, "Attila Iskander" <Attila....@live.com>
wrote:

Little details like "straight" is a homonym, and under the applicable definition
of heterosexual, asexuals are also "not straight."

[Mitchell Holman]

"PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote in
news:ROJnt.18392$nm....@newsfe14.iad:

> Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,
>> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>>> May 23 2013
>>>
>>> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>>> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>>> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>>> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>>> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>>> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>>> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>>> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>>> to 475 no.
>>>
>>> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-t
>>> o- lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>
>> It's about fucking time!
>>
>> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
>> still a bigoted organization.
>
> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
> Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

The BSA is per se a religious institution
so I don't know how they could be forced to
accept atheists.

[linuxgal]

Doug wrote:
> Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
> to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.

"We" don't do anything, it's for the Boy Scouts to decide.

[linuxgal]

PV wrote:
> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

They ought to change, they are not required to change. It's sort of
like those country clubs that only accept whites.

[Alfred E. Newman]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

Jeanne, why do you say they are still bigoted? Is it because you
weren't allowed to join because of what you have between your legs? Or
was it because of what you don't have between your ears?

[linuxgal]

Tom McDonald wrote:
>>
> Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
> enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.

If you must have pedophiles in Scouting, you probably want nothing but
straight pedophiles, in the Boy Scouts where they have no girls to
diddle, and also in the Girl Scouts where they have no boys to diddle.

[linuxgal]

Tom McDonald wrote:
> It's a start. I think a good start. But it's ultimately doomed to either
> be expanded to allow gay leaders, or to go back to not allowing openly
> gay youth as Scouts. As it stands, a gay young man can be a great Scout
> until he turns 18, at which point he is, what, not a great Scout?

I don't think so. Getting Eagle Scout, they can't take it away from
you, anymore than they could take away Bubba's status as a Rhodes Scholar.

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net>
wrote:

>Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
>change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

Yet another stupid, nasty, lying theist.

Did the moron "choose" not to believe in Santa Claus?

[Not X]

On 05/24/2013 08:20 AM, PV wrote:

[snip]

> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>

Atheism is simply the state of NOT being afflicted by a debilitating
condition. It is NOT a choice, the same way NOT having Alzheimer's
disease isn't a choice.

--
"The world is in need of less religion and more common sense." [Llewelyn
Powys, "Celsus and Origen"]

[Fidem Turbāre,]

Do you think "appeal to a larger audience" might have had any influence
on how some of the members voted?

--
Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Homosexuals are not a carpeting flaw. The gay community does not
tolerate shoddy fabrics."
-- W. Godfrey (April 10, 2012; reflecting on Cardinal George Pell's
comparison of God's Creations and Asian Carpetry flaws as a
metaphorical explanation of homosexuality)

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <nhLnt.275738$Sh7.2...@fed06.iad>,

Not X <no...@nomailatall.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/24/2013 08:20 AM, PV wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> > change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
> >
>
> Atheism is simply the state of NOT being afflicted by a debilitating
> condition. It is NOT a choice, the same way NOT having Alzheimer's
> disease isn't a choice.

I get a kick out of atheists who out religious the religious.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the bastards."-- Claire Wolfe

[Tom McDonald]

OK, what's your definition of men who sexually abuse prepubescent and
young pubescent boys preferentially, who otherwise are heterosexual
(i.e. don't have or want to have sex with sexually mature men), and are
almost always married to women?

Gay men are not attracted to prepubescent and pubescent boys at a
greater rate than are, let's say, otherwise straight men.

Or are you sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex no matter
how young they are?

[Fidem Turbāre,]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 05:44:32 -0500
Tom McDonald <kil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/23/2013 9:38 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> > May 23 2013
> >
> > GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> > Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> > kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> > popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> > guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> > Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> > delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> > BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> > to 475 no.
> >
> > http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> > lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>
> It's a start. I think a good start. But it's ultimately doomed to
> either be expanded to allow gay leaders, or to go back to not
> allowing openly gay youth as Scouts. As it stands, a gay young man
> can be a great Scout until he turns 18, at which point he is, what,
> not a great Scout?

South Park, the educational TV satire, did an excellent episode on the
Boy Scouts and featured a character named "Big Gay Al" as the scout
leader. He was an excellent role model, the kids enjoyed learning
under his guidance, and the parents were happy that their kids were
being taught well and having fun. Then the upper management discovered
that "Big Gay Al" is a homosexual, and so they kicked him out and
replaced him with a masochistic and apparently-straight man who started
taking pictures of the children.

The contrast was well presented, and it seems the main point South Park
made overall was that discriminating against homosexuality isn't a
tactic that solves or prevents problems.

> I hope the internal pressure of this contradiction will lead to
> opening Scouting to gay adult leaders under the same regime of
> behavior expected of straight leader. Time will tell.

The fact that 39% voted against homosexuality (it shouldn't even have
been a vote in the first place) very likely indicates that this issue
will be the centre of conflict for the Boy Scouts again in the future.

> BTW, FWIW, I am straight, an Eagle Scout, member of the Order of the
> Arrow, and was an assistant Scoutmaster. I love me some Scouting, and
> wish only that it will be open to anyone who wants to take part in it
> under the guidance of the Laws and the Promise.

That seems rational and reasonable to me.

--
Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess

"As the Catholic church becomes more and more tolerant, some day they
will have to consider the possibility of a gay pope. Possibly the
largest issue will be having to decide whether he is 'absolutely
divine' or 'just simply marvellous.'"
-- Unknown

[Fidem Turbāre,]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600

"PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote:

> Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> > In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,
> > Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> >> May 23 2013
> >>
> >> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> >> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> >> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> >> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> >> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> >> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> >> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> >> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> >> to 475 no.
> >>
> >> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> >> lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
> >
> > It's about fucking time!
> >
> > Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
> > still a bigoted organization.
>
> Sexual orientation is not a choice,

That's not entirely true. Some people "choose to experiment" and, of
them, some find that they enjoy it. However, I do agree that sexual
orientation tends to be a "built-in characteristic" for many people.

> however atheism is, so why must Scouts change to accommodate those
> that choose atheism?

Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
"reverted" to atheism.

In fact, the Boy Scouts do accept atheist members, with the hopes of
these young children diverting to their flavour of theism, just like
most churches do.

I view the Boy Scouts as a unique type of church that focuses on a lot
of outdoor activities with an emphasis on survival, and distinctly
places a greater importance on the chain of command. It's not known to
be extreme like Scientology, which has a strong Navy flavour, but there
is a serious religious component that makes it fit a church paradigm
albeit without so much preaching and brainwashing (theism is not
pressed nearly as hard because they have a lot of other things to do,
and so theism tends to be regarded more as "a fact of life").

--
Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
-- Richard P. Feynman

[Fidem Turbāre,]

See my response to Joe Bruno.

--
Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Physics isn't the most important thing; love is."
-- Richard P. Feynman

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <20130524085800.9ccb...@fidemturbare.com>,

Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess

<god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:


>
> Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
> natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
> "reverted" to atheism.

Atheism is a faith every bit as much as any other. It is not a state
of nature, what ever nebulousness that term means.

And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.

[Tom McDonald]

On 5/24/2013 8:20 AM, PV wrote:
> Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,
>> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>>> May 23 2013
>>>
>>> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>>> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>>> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>>> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>>> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>>> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>>> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>>> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>>> to 475 no.
>>>
>>> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
>>> lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>
>> It's about fucking time!
>>
>> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
>> still a bigoted organization.
>
> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>

If religion, or lack thereof, is a matter of choice, as are many other
things, why should Scouts single out one religious belief (i.e. 'None')
for special disdain? The only relevant part of the Scout Law that could
conceivably come into play is the last Law, A Scout is Reverent. There
is nothing whatsoever keeping an atheist Scout or Scouter from being
reverent. Nothing at all.

So why the disbarring of atheist boys and men from Scouting?

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:03:20 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <20130524085800.9ccb...@fidemturbare.com>,
> Fidem Turb?re, the non-existent atheist goddess

> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
>> natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
>> "reverted" to atheism.
> Atheism is a faith every bit as much as any other. It is not a state
>of nature, what ever nebulousness that term means.
>
>And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
>Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.

Why would they be? You seem to assume that atheists have beliefs. I'm
not certain which beliefs you think atheists have. Could you identify an
atheist belief and explain why any atheist would get upset if you
question it?

I tend to think that people get upset when you question a belief that
has been arrived at without evidence or logic so the belief is
indefensible. Is that what you have in mind?

[harry]

On May 24, 7:20 am, Jeanne Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> In article <pgotp89pe3k4pknjr7ka5h745abjfgh...@4ax.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  J <jdyou...@ymail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:38:11 -0500, Mitchell Holman

> > <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > >Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> > >May 23 2013
>
> > >GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> > >Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> > >kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> > >popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> > >guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> > >Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> > >delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> > >BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> > >to 475 no.
>
> > >http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> > >lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>

> > This was voted upon by the BSA, not imposed by some judge with an
> > agenda. It is what it is, so be it.
>

> What does this decision have to do with pedophilia?


Similar sorts of perverts.

[harry]

On May 24, 2:27 pm, "Doug" <d...@void.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:11:07 -0500, "Attila Iskander"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <Attila.Iskan...@live.com> wrote:
> >"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess" <godd...@fidemturbare.com>

> >wrote in message
> >news:20130523234312.18c1...@fidemturbare.com...
> >> On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700

> >> Jeanne Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47nomailverizon...@216.196.121.131>,

What about paedophiles? They should be admitted also.

[harry]

On May 24, 3:02 pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote innews:ROJnt.18392$nm....@newsfe14.iad:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> >> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47nomailverizon...@216.196.121.131>,

> >> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> >>> May 23 2013
>
> >>> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> >>> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> >>> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> >>> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> >>> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> >>> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> >>> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> >>> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> >>> to 475 no.
>
> >>>http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-t
> >>> o- lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>
> >> It's about fucking time!
>
> >> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
> >> still a bigoted organization.
>
> > Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
> > Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>
>     The BSA is per se a religious institution
> so I don't know how they could be forced to
> accept atheists.

The BSA is not religious.
It was invented in the UK primarily to prepare boys for service in the
imperial British army though it has changed since then.

[harry]

On May 24, 3:56 pm, Christopher A. Lee <chrislee95...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> >change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>

Being queer is learned behaviour.

[harry]

>
> South Park, the educational TV satire, did an excellent episode on the
> Boy Scouts and featured a character named "Big Gay Al" as the scout
> leader.  He was an excellent role model, the kids enjoyed learning
> under his guidance, and the parents were happy that their kids were
> being taught well and having fun.  Then the upper management discovered
> that "Big Gay Al" is a homosexual, and so they kicked him out and
> replaced him with a masochistic and apparently-straight man who started
> taking pictures of the children.
>
> The contrast was well presented, and it seems the main point South Park
> made overall was that discriminating against homosexuality isn't a
> tactic that solves or prevents problems.
>

I'm surprised you take such propaganda/drivel seriously.
It is an attempt to influence your mind.
Succeeded apparently.
But then Americans believe everything they see on TV/that comes from
Hollywood it seems.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <to4vp8dqe8ski9h3g...@4ax.com>,

Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> Why would they be? You seem to assume that atheists have beliefs. I'm
> not certain which beliefs you think atheists have. Could you identify an
> atheist belief and explain why any atheist would get upset if you
> question it?
>

The belief is that there is no God. As to why, probably be same as
others because other people have the audacity to not believe what they
do. You my friend are serving nicely as the poster child.

> I tend to think that people get upset when you question a belief that
> has been arrived at without evidence or logic so the belief is
> indefensible. Is that what you have in mind?

Your belief is no more provable (and only mildly more logical) than most
religious people. There is no evidence that God doesn't exist. But

[Tom McDonald]

It's a bit of a conundrum, for me at least, what to call adult males who
have sex with adult women, not adult men, but diddle little boys and/or
girls.

'Homosexual' isn't quite right. Neither is, I'll grant you, 'straight'.
But I'm unsure what nomenclature to use when confronted with the fact
that the pedophiles I was aware of as a kid were all adult males with
wives and children, and who never, to my knowledge, engaged in sex with
other men.

AIUI, gay men are no more sexually attracted to young boys than straight
men are sexually attracted to young girls. That means that, of course,
some are; but I'm not aware of that happening at a significantly greater
rate with gays than with straights.

Sexuality is fascinating, and talking about it can be
frustrating--especially at times like in this discussion.

Or, of course, when one isn't getting any.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <ARMnt.8792$uT3....@newsfe20.iad>,

Tom McDonald <kil...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 'Homosexual' isn't quite right. Neither is, I'll grant you, 'straight'.
> But I'm unsure what nomenclature to use when confronted with the fact
> that the pedophiles I was aware of as a kid were all adult males with
> wives and children, and who never, to my knowledge, engaged in sex with
> other men.

Pedophile works nicely and is gender and preference neutral.

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:03:20 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>

wrote:

>In article <20130524085800.9ccb...@fidemturbare.com>,
> Fidem TurbÄ?re, the non-existent atheist goddess

> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
>> natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
>> "reverted" to atheism.
> Atheism is a faith every bit as much as any other. It is not a state
>of nature, what ever nebulousness that term means.

Yet another pig-ignorant, stupid, nasty lying theist.

Why are you bigoted morons incapable of grasping the fact that atheism
is no different than your own not believing in Santa Claus?

>And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
>Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.

What "beliefs" do atheists have that you are lying about, pathological
liar?

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 11:21:27 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:

>On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:03:20 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
>wrote in alt.atheism:
>
>>In article <20130524085800.9ccb...@fidemturbare.com>,
>> Fidem Turb?re, the non-existent atheist goddess
>> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
>>> natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
>>> "reverted" to atheism.
>> Atheism is a faith every bit as much as any other. It is not a state
>>of nature, what ever nebulousness that term means.
>>
>>And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
>>Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.
>
>Why would they be? You seem to assume that atheists have beliefs. I'm
>not certain which beliefs you think atheists have. Could you identify an
>atheist belief and explain why any atheist would get upset if you
>question it?

It's just another pig-ignorant, nasty, bigoted, lying theist.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <k08vp85rr7plosipl...@4ax.com>,

Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:

>
> Yet another pig-ignorant, stupid, nasty lying theist.
>
> Why are you bigoted morons incapable of grasping the fact that atheism
> is no different than your own not believing in Santa Claus?

Well is certainly isn't your debating skills now is it?

>
> >And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
> >Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.
>
> What "beliefs" do atheists have that you are lying about, pathological
> liar?

The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
other side can prove there is ONE.

[Tom McDonald]

Don't generalize your experience to everyone.

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <to4vp8dqe8ski9h3g...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>> Why would they be? You seem to assume that atheists have beliefs. I'm
>> not certain which beliefs you think atheists have. Could you identify an
>> atheist belief and explain why any atheist would get upset if you
>> question it?
>>
> The belief is that there is no God.

No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
gods.

>As to why, probably be same as
>others because other people have the audacity to not believe what they
>do. You my friend are serving nicely as the poster child.

How so? You misrepresent atheism, I correct you.

>> I tend to think that people get upset when you question a belief that
>> has been arrived at without evidence or logic so the belief is
>> indefensible. Is that what you have in mind?
>
>Your belief is no more provable (and only mildly more logical) than most
>religious people. There is no evidence that God doesn't exist. But

Let's go back to the valid definition of atheism, the lack of belief in
any gods. Where does that require evidence that any particular god does
not exist?

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:23:58 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <k08vp85rr7plosipl...@4ax.com>,
> Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yet another pig-ignorant, stupid, nasty lying theist.
>>
>> Why are you bigoted morons incapable of grasping the fact that atheism
>> is no different than your own not believing in Santa Claus?
>
> Well is certainly isn't your debating skills now is it?

Such wit.

>> >And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
>> >Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.
>>
>> What "beliefs" do atheists have that you are lying about, pathological
>> liar?
>The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
>other side can prove there is ONE.

You do know that you have offered a strawman to attack, do you not?

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,

Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
>

> No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
> gods.

Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
not believing.

> Let's go back to the valid definition of atheism, the lack of belief in
> any gods. Where does that require evidence that any particular god does
> not exist?

How does it do anything but? YOu are saying there are no gods.
Lack of gods mean they don't exist or there would be a god or two
floating around. I did not say anything about a particular god (thus the
lower case "g" to keep my high school English teachers happy-grin).
Until you can prove that there are no gods to believe, atheism is just
the mirror image of theism (with their own brand of fundamentalism).

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:34:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
>>
>> No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
>> gods.
> Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
>not believing.

I do not believe in any gods. That does not imply that I assert that no
gods exist.

>> Let's go back to the valid definition of atheism, the lack of belief in
>> any gods. Where does that require evidence that any particular god does
>> not exist?
>
> How does it do anything but? YOu are saying there are no gods.

No, I am saying I do not believe in any.

>Lack of gods mean they don't exist or there would be a god or two
>floating around. I did not say anything about a particular god (thus the
>lower case "g" to keep my high school English teachers happy-grin).
>Until you can prove that there are no gods to believe, atheism is just
>the mirror image of theism (with their own brand of fundamentalism).

Repeating your claim does not make it true when your logic is not valid.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <2r8vp892805i9da1p...@4ax.com>,

Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

>
> >The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
> >other side can prove there is ONE.
>
> You do know that you have offered a strawman to attack, do you not?

No I haven't, not all. It is a fundamental part of the issue. How can
you be so overwhelmingly sure that your essential unprovable belief (or
lack of belief if you want to go that route) is the one and only True
One yet you can't prove your lack of belief is any more right than the
other sides is? Especially since many want to say so vicerously and
stridently and with every bit as much as loud as those on the other side
proclaim their's?
You can no more prove your lack of belief is right and warranted
than the other side can their' is right and warranted.

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:42:30 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <2r8vp892805i9da1p...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>>
>> >The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
>> >other side can prove there is ONE.
>>
>> You do know that you have offered a strawman to attack, do you not?
>
>No I haven't, not all. It is a fundamental part of the issue. How can
>you be so overwhelmingly sure that your essential unprovable belief (or
>lack of belief if you want to go that route) is the one and only True
>One yet you can't prove your lack of belief is any more right than the
>other sides is? Especially since many want to say so vicerously and
>stridently and with every bit as much as loud as those on the other side
>proclaim their's?

I have a lack of belief. That is all. You are trying to add something
else to the discussion. If you want to do so, you need to show me how
your claim applies.

> You can no more prove your lack of belief is right and warranted
>than the other side can their' is right and warranted.

I have no need to prove that I am right. I merely have to note that I do
not believe.

If you are curious why I don't believe in a specific god, I might be
able to enlighten you, but, as for all possible gods, all I can say is
that I do not consider believing in any until there is evidence for one
of them.

[Father Haskell]

On May 24, 12:50 am, harry <harry130...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47nomailverizon...@216.196.121.131>,
> >  Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> > > May 23 2013
>
> > > GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> > > Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> > > kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> > > popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> > > guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> > > Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> > > delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> > > BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> > > to 475 no.
>
> > >http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> > > lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>
> > It's about fucking time!
>
> > Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
> > a bigoted organization.
>

> > --
>
> > JD
>
> It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
> potential victims.

Isn't that what the churches are for?

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <n59vp81tvv37cub4c...@4ax.com>,

Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:

> On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:34:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
> wrote in alt.atheism:
>
> >In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,
> > Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
> >> gods.
> > Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
> >not believing.
>
> I do not believe in any gods. That does not imply that I assert that no
> gods exist.

So you want to have it both ways? Covering bases in case?
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized
there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there
wasn't an afterlife. -Douglas Adams

>
> Repeating your claim does not make it true when your logic is not valid.

Yet you seem to think your does.
The bottom line despite all of the semantics (including those of my
own) is that you have no way to prove that your lack of belief is any
more valid than any existing belief. Thus it is every bit as much of a
faith as any religion.
(actually from the view of the religious person it is probably a
braver one since if you are wrong you get to rot in whatever version of
hell is being used. If the religious person is wrong nothing happens and
he doesn't know about it after death.)

[Kurt Ullman]

In article <rk9vp8ls4rvmqtt04...@4ax.com>,

Yet those who do believe have ample evidence. Just evidence you don't
find convincing... given your beliefs.

[NotMe]

"harry" <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a879e965-0136-4c81...@v3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...

And you know this ... how?

[linuxgal]

Kurt Ullman wrote:
> Yet those who do believe have ample evidence. Just evidence you don't
> find convincing... given your beliefs.

Emotions such as hope or belief or faith are evidence of nothing.

[Rob Wall]

In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>

Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> May 23 2013
>
> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> to 475 no.
>
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

The delegates ignored the historical membership of the boyscouts
which opposed the action by a 2 to 1 margin.

Faggots should all be put to death.

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:58:55 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>

wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <n59vp81tvv37cub4c...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:34:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>
>> >In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,
>> > Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
>> >>
>> >> No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
>> >> gods.
>> > Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
>> >not believing.
>>
>> I do not believe in any gods. That does not imply that I assert that no
>> gods exist.
>
>So you want to have it both ways? Covering bases in case?

No, no, just being consistent.

>He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized
>there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there
>wasn't an afterlife. -Douglas Adams
>
>>
>> Repeating your claim does not make it true when your logic is not valid.
>Yet you seem to think your does.

What claim, other than stating that I do not believe in any gods, do you
think I am making. My statement of nonbelief has no need of supporting
evidence.

> The bottom line despite all of the semantics (including those of my
>own) is that you have no way to prove that your lack of belief is any
>more valid than any existing belief. Thus it is every bit as much of a
>faith as any religion.

Where did you get this idea? You need to explain more clearly how you
arrive at this.

> (actually from the view of the religious person it is probably a
>braver one since if you are wrong you get to rot in whatever version of
>hell is being used. If the religious person is wrong nothing happens and
>he doesn't know about it after death.)

Afterlife doctrines are separate from doctrines about the existence of
gods.

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 14:01:12 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism:

>In article <rk9vp8ls4rvmqtt04...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>>
>> If you are curious why I don't believe in a specific god, I might be
>> able to enlighten you, but, as for all possible gods, all I can say is
>> that I do not consider believing in any until there is evidence for one
>> of them.
>
> Yet those who do believe have ample evidence. Just evidence you don't
>find convincing... given your beliefs.

Please present some of the evidence that you think exists for the
existence of gods.

[linuxgal]

If being queer is learned behavior, then it follows that being straight
must also be learned behavior, since baby boys don't consistently get
erections when they are breast fed. So, Harry, please list the names of
all the men you considered to be potential sex partners but ultimately
rejected as you were learning to be straight.

[Douglas Johnson]

Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
>>
>> No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
>> gods.
> Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
>not believing.

"I don't know" is a perfectly valid point of view and is quite different from "I
know there is a God" and from "I know there isn't a God".

-- Doug

[Douglas Johnson]

Tom McDonald <kil...@gmail.com> wrote:


>If religion, or lack thereof, is a matter of choice, as are many other
>things, why should Scouts single out one religious belief (i.e. 'None')
>for special disdain? The only relevant part of the Scout Law that could
>conceivably come into play is the last Law, A Scout is Reverent. There
>is nothing whatsoever keeping an atheist Scout or Scouter from being
>reverent. Nothing at all.

There is also the Scout Oath: "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to
God and my Country..."

An atheist could simply say that he knows of no God, so has no duty to it. But
right now, the Scouts see it differently.

Some of the whole discussion comes down to two different views of Scouting. Some
see it as largely a religious program like church camp. Lots of churches
sponsor troops. Others see it as primarily a secular program. Lots of troops
are sponsored by PTAs, Rotary Clubs, etc.

-- Doug

[Tom McDonald]

On 5/24/2013 3:39 PM, Douglas Johnson wrote:
> Tom McDonald <kil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> If religion, or lack thereof, is a matter of choice, as are many other
>> things, why should Scouts single out one religious belief (i.e. 'None')
>> for special disdain? The only relevant part of the Scout Law that could
>> conceivably come into play is the last Law, A Scout is Reverent. There
>> is nothing whatsoever keeping an atheist Scout or Scouter from being
>> reverent. Nothing at all.
>
> There is also the Scout Oath: "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to
> God and my Country..."

Yes. I forgot that. D'oh!

> An atheist could simply say that he knows of no God, so has no duty to it. But
> right now, the Scouts see it differently.

Yup. I even tried to be a Scout as a Pantheist, and was told that didn't
count. Not sure if the person I was speaking to (a camp chaplain)
understood the concept. I finally relented and said I was what I grew up
as--an Episcopalian.

> Some of the whole discussion comes down to two different views of Scouting. Some
> see it as largely a religious program like church camp. Lots of churches
> sponsor troops. Others see it as primarily a secular program. Lots of troops
> are sponsored by PTAs, Rotary Clubs, etc.
>

Yup. Personally, I see it as a youth development program, with spiritual
and secular aspects. In my mind, spirituality isn't co-terminus with
religion or a belief in God or gods.

[Mitchell Holman]

harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:39aecfb4-e605-488a...@g7g2000vbv.googlegroups.com:

> On May 24, 3:02 pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>> "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote

>> innews:ROJnt.18392$nm.5936@newsfe1
> 4.iad:

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>> >> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47nomailverizon...@216.196.121.131>,

>> >> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>> >>> May 23 2013
>>
>> >>> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>> >>> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>> >>> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>> >>> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>> >>> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>> >>> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>> >>> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>> >>> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>> >>> to 475 no.
>>
>> >>>http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote
>> >>>-t

>> >>> o- lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>
>> >> It's about fucking time!
>>
>> >> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
>> >> still a bigoted organization.
>>

>> > Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
>> > Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>>

>>     The BSA is per se a religious institution
>> so I don't know how they could be forced to
>> accept atheists.
>
> The BSA is not religious.
> It was invented in the UK primarily to prepare boys for service in the
> imperial British army though it has changed since then.
>


The Supreme Court says they are a religious organization.


http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/05/supreme-court-boy-scouts-are-
religious.html

[Douglas Johnson]

Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:

> The Supreme Court says they are a religious organization.
>
>
>http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/05/supreme-court-boy-scouts-are-
>religious.html

No. The Supreme Court merely declined to hear a lower court case that said the
Scouts are a religious organization. SCOTUS declines to hear most cases that
come before it. It does not show how they would rule if they did take the case.

-- Doug

[PV]

harry wrote:
> On May 24, 3:02 pm, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>> "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote

>> innews:ROJnt.18392$nm....@newsfe14.iad:

Baden Powell emphasized God throughout his writing including the promise and
the law

He also intend Scouting to develop good citizens from youth throught
activities and learning, teaching them to prefer service before self.

--
PV

In Pierre Trudeau, Canada has finally produced
a Prime Minister worthy of assassination.
- Irving Layton

[PV]

linuxgal wrote:

> PV wrote:
>> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
>> Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>

> They ought to change, they are not required to change. It's sort of
> like those country clubs that only accept whites.

I have never seen a family denied membership from Scouting because they are
atheists. However I have witnessed atheists join and then demand the
removal of all references to God. Sorry but the organization has a
spirtiual aspect to it, if that does not fit your choices, too bad.

[PV]

Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net>

> wrote:
>
>> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
>> Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>

> Yet another stupid, nasty, lying theist.
>
> Did the moron "choose" not to believe in Santa Claus?

Well another educated response........not

Please explain where the lie is?

[pongespob]

On May 24, 9:20 am, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote:

> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

Everyone is born an atheist until some get their mind filled with the
bullshit of religion. Religion is the choice to ignore reason in
deference to ancient fairy tales for the sole reason that a lot of
other people do with no justification whatsoever other than social
pressure.

[PV]

If that helps you sleep at night the run with it.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article
<8810f35b62388b5d...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>,

Why?

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article
<d484933f-e134-4e1b...@l3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On May 24, 7:20 am, Jeanne Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <pgotp89pe3k4pknjr7ka5h745abjfgh...@4ax.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  J <jdyou...@ymail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:38:11 -0500, Mitchell Holman

> > > <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > >Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> > > >May 23 2013
> >
> > > >GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> > > >Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> > > >kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> > > >popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> > > >guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> > > >Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> > > >delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> > > >BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> > > >to 475 no.
> >
> > > >http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> > > >lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
> >

> > > This was voted upon by the BSA, not imposed by some judge with an
> > > agenda. It is what it is, so be it.
> >
> > What does this decision have to do with pedophilia?
>
>
> Similar sorts of perverts.

Really? Are you really that ignorant?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <lstup8lgrm7vo309i...@4ax.com>,
Alfred E. Newman <What_M...@Mad.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,

> > Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> >> May 23 2013
> >>
> >> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> >> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> >> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> >> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> >> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> >> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> >> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> >> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> >> to 475 no.
> >>
> >> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> >> lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
> >

> >It's about fucking time!
> >
> >Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
> >a bigoted organization.
> >

> >--
> >
> >JD
>
> Jeanne, why do you say they are still bigoted? Is it because you
> weren't allowed to join because of what you have between your legs? Or
> was it because of what you don't have between your ears?

I had the Girl Scouts available to me. A FAR better organization than
the Boy Scouts.

Sadly, our troop leader was a bitch who favored her daughter and her
buddies over the rest of the troop, so I dropped out as soon as I was
allowed.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <ROJnt.18392$nm....@newsfe14.iad>,

"PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote:

> Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> > In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,
> > Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
> >> May 23 2013
> >>
> >> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
> >> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
> >> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
> >> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
> >> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
> >> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
> >> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
> >> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
> >> to 475 no.
> >>
> >> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
> >> lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
> >
> > It's about fucking time!
> >
> > Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
> > still a bigoted organization.
>

> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

Because the only reason to discriminate against atheists is bigotry.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <ctSnt.41060$KM4....@newsfe25.iad>,

"PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote:

> Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
> >> Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
> >
> > Yet another stupid, nasty, lying theist.
> >
> > Did the moron "choose" not to believe in Santa Claus?
>
> Well another educated response........not
>
> Please explain where the lie is?

A person cannot CHOOSE to believe or not believe.

If I ordered you to believe in leprechauns, could you do it?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article
<a879e965-0136-4c81...@v3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,

harry <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On May 24, 3:56 pm, Christopher A. Lee <chrislee95...@comcast.net>

> wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
> > >change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
> >
>

> Being queer is learned behaviour.

Educate yourself so you won't make such ignorant statements.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <VpSnt.5897$OS5...@newsfe24.iad>,

And atheists, based on what we see here on this group, are far more
moral than theists.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <hGVnt.29044$JB5....@newsfe26.iad>,

"PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote:

> pongespob wrote:
> > On May 24, 9:20 am, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
> >> Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
> >
> >
> > Everyone is born an atheist until some get their mind filled with the
> > bullshit of religion. Religion is the choice to ignore reason in
> > deference to ancient fairy tales for the sole reason that a lot of
> > other people do with no justification whatsoever other than social
> > pressure.
>
> If that helps you sleep at night the run with it.

So you're claiming that babies believe in god?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <rYudncWZSoDYEgLM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <20130524085800.9ccb...@fidemturbare.com>,
> Fidem Turbāre, the non-existent atheist goddess
> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
> > natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
> > "reverted" to atheism.
> Atheism is a faith


What do you think we have faith in?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <37CdnQiy-vv4BALM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <to4vp8dqe8ski9h3g...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
> > Why would they be? You seem to assume that atheists have beliefs. I'm
> > not certain which beliefs you think atheists have. Could you identify an
> > atheist belief and explain why any atheist would get upset if you
> > question it?
> >
> The belief is that there is no God.


Only a tiny percentage of atheists believe that.

Most of us just don't believe in ANY god because we have yet to see
evidence that any of the exist.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <doidnan5qZIxOQLM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,

> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
> >
> > No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
> > gods.
> Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
> not believing.

Exactly.

What it is not is a belief that no god exists.


> > Let's go back to the valid definition of atheism, the lack of belief in
> > any gods. Where does that require evidence that any particular god does
> > not exist?
>
> How does it do anything but? YOu are saying there are no gods.

Not true.


> Lack of gods mean they don't exist or there would be a god or two
> floating around. I did not say anything about a particular god (thus the
> lower case "g" to keep my high school English teachers happy-grin).
> Until you can prove that there are no gods to believe, atheism is just
> the mirror image of theism (with their own brand of fundamentalism).

But the vast majority of us DO NOT believe that god doesn't exist.

What it is is the lack of a reason TO believe.

Can you answer the question nobody else has been able to answer: WHY
should we believe that any god exists?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <OKCdnY5L6ajCNwLM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <n59vp81tvv37cub4c...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:34:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote in alt.atheism:
> >

> > >In article <al8vp893f355osj2p...@4ax.com>,
> > > Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com>
> > >>
> > >> No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
> > >> gods.
> > > Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
> > >not believing.
> >

> > I do not believe in any gods. That does not imply that I assert that no
> > gods exist.
>
> So you want to have it both ways? Covering bases in case?

> He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized
> there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there
> wasn't an afterlife. -Douglas Adams
>
> >
> > Repeating your claim does not make it true when your logic is not valid.
> Yet you seem to think your does.

> The bottom line despite all of the semantics (including those of my
> own) is that you have no way to prove that your lack of belief is any
> more valid than any existing belief. Thus it is every bit as much of a
> faith as any religion.

> (actually from the view of the religious person it is probably a
> braver one since if you are wrong you get to rot in whatever version of
> hell is being used. If the religious person is wrong nothing happens and
> he doesn't know about it after death.)

Oh, dear, big mistake bringing up the idiocy of Pascal's Wager.

There are not 2 choices, there are tens of thousands. What if you've
chosen the wrong god to believe in?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <o4idnacxcuezPwLM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <k08vp85rr7plosipl...@4ax.com>,
> Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yet another pig-ignorant, stupid, nasty lying theist.
> >
> > Why are you bigoted morons incapable of grasping the fact that atheism
> > is no different than your own not believing in Santa Claus?
>
> Well is certainly isn't your debating skills now is it?
>
> >
> > >And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
> > >Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.
> >
> > What "beliefs" do atheists have that you are lying about, pathological
> > liar?
> The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
> other side can prove there is ONE.


But we don't believe there is no god.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <_eSdnWx5a4IbOwLM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <2r8vp892805i9da1p...@4ax.com>,

> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
> >
> > >The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
> > >other side can prove there is ONE.
> >

> > You do know that you have offered a strawman to attack, do you not?
>
> No I haven't, not all. It is a fundamental part of the issue. How can
> you be so overwhelmingly sure that your essential unprovable belief (or
> lack of belief if you want to go that route) is the one and only True

Who says we do? Who said anything even close to that? The exact words,
please.


> One yet you can't prove your lack of belief is any more right than the
> other sides is? Especially since many want to say so vicerously and
> stridently and with every bit as much as loud as those on the other side
> proclaim their's?
> You can no more prove your lack of belief is right and warranted
> than the other side can their' is right and warranted.

How can a lack of belief be right or wrong?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <OKCdnYlL6ah1NwLM...@earthlink.com>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <rk9vp8ls4rvmqtt04...@4ax.com>,
> Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >
> > If you are curious why I don't believe in a specific god, I might be
> > able to enlighten you, but, as for all possible gods, all I can say is
> > that I do not consider believing in any until there is evidence for one
> > of them.
>
> Yet those who do believe have ample evidence. Just evidence you don't
> find convincing... given your beliefs.

List that evidence right here:

...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...

Looking forward to finally seeing some of that evidence.

[PV]

Ummmm sure, however basing conclusions on an anonymous newsgroup with so few
participants and so many trolls will surely skew the results severely

[Attila Iskander]

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com>
wrote in message
news:20130524090108.afc2...@fidemturbare.com...
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:08:55 -0500
> "Attila Iskander" <Attila....@live.com> wrote:
>> "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
>> <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote in message
>> news:20130523234032.071f...@fidemturbare.com...
>> > On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:54:56 -0700
>> > J <jdyo...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:38:11 -0500, Mitchell Holman

>> >> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>> >> >May 23 2013
>> >> >
>> >> >GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>> >> >Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>> >> >kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>> >> >popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>> >> >guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>> >> >Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>> >> >delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>> >> >BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>> >> >to 475 no.
>> >> >

>> >> >http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
>> >> >lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>> >>
>> >> This was voted upon by the BSA, not imposed by some judge with an
>> >> agenda. It is what it is, so be it.
>> >

>> > In the USA, because judges are elected, one could argue for the
>> > likelihood of said agenda being "re-election."
>>
>> Some are, some are not
>> Would you like to try again ?
>
> See my response to Joe Bruno.
>

Joe who ?
I have no intention to go fishing for your response

In the meantime your claim is BULLSHIT
Some judges are elected, some are not

[Attila Iskander]

"Doug" <do...@void.com> wrote in message
news:7rpup8dj4iqlc3up9...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:11:07 -0500, "Attila Iskander"

> <Attila....@live.com> wrote:
>
>>"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
>><god...@fidemturbare.com>
>>wrote in message

>>news:20130523234312.18c1...@fidemturbare.com...

>>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700
>>> Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47...@216.196.121.131>,

>>>> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>>>> > May 23 2013
>>>> >
>>>> > GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>>>> > Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>>>> > kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>>>> > popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>>>> > guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>>>> > Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>>>> > delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>>>> > BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>>>> > to 475 no.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
>>>> > lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>>>

>>>> It's about fucking time!
>>>>
>>>> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
>>>> still a bigoted organization.
>>>

>>> The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
>>> it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.
>>>
>>> It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
>>> as they do. The organization is defective and needs new leadership
>>> that respects and embraces the personal freedoms of its membership.
>>>
>>
>>You always have the choice of joining and trying to change it
>>Alternately you can start something equivalent modified to meet your
>>standards.
>>
>>Always funny to see people come along and criticize a group of people who
>>join together for whatever reasons , that don't meet the critics'
>>standards.
>>
>
>
> What a bunch of homophobics. Being a former boy scout myself many
> years ago, we didn't think about it then and for all I know, perhaps
> some were gay then but were in the closet. So now it's just more
> official, that's all. For me, as long as they keep their hands off,
> let it be.
>
> Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
> to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.


So where do you draw the line ?
Because you can be sure that someone will protest your line and claim that
you're being intolerant and discriminatory doing so,.

[PV]

Wow you really believe that people CAN'T choose what to believe? Your faith
in people is pretty shallow if that is true.

Ordering me to believe is not offering a choice, last time I looked in
Canada, there is nothing ordering me to believe or not to believe.

Many people are raised in a religion who go on to choose to reject those
beliefs and replace them with their own so did they not consciously choose
to believe in something other then what they were raised with?

[Attila Iskander]

"linuxgal" <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote in message
news:k4mdnT71XsWZ6QLM...@giganews.com...

> Doug wrote:
>> Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
>> to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.
>

> "We" don't do anything, it's for the Boy Scouts to decide.


Exactly

[Attila Iskander]

"Ben Kaufman" <spaXm-mXe-anXd-p...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:0spup8pa4hmrrrivo...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:12:26 -0500, "Attila Iskander"
> <Attila....@live.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Tom McDonald" <kil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:%%Hnt.57168$pU6....@newsfe10.iad...
>>> On 5/23/2013 11:50 PM, harry wrote:
>>>> On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas <hlwdj...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <XnsA1C9DB1EE3D47nomailverizon...@216.196.121.131>,

>>>>> Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
>>>>>> May 23 2013
>>>>>
>>>>>> GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
>>>>>> Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
>>>>>> kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
>>>>>> popular youth organizations, ditching membership
>>>>>> guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
>>>>>> Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
>>>>>> delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
>>>>>> BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
>>>>>> to 475 no.
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18447459-boy-scouts-vote-to-
>>>>>> lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite
>>>>>
>>>>> It's about fucking time!
>>>>>
>>>>> Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
>>>>> still
>>>>> a bigoted organization.
>>>>>

>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> JD
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
>>>> potential victims.
>>>>
>>> Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
>>> enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.
>>
>>
>>
>>Ironic that by definition an individual attracted to someone of the same
>>sex
>>is NOT "straight".
>>But hey, let's not let little details like that get in the way.
>
>
> Little details like "straight" is a homonym, and under the applicable
> definition
> of heterosexual, asexuals are also "not straight."



In this case, your sophistry is just bullshit

[PV]

Wow you read a lot between the lines, all imaginary but lots all the same

I am claiming that you are free to believe what you want to believe.
However that doesn't mean you are free to belittle my beliefs or shove yours
down my throat

The world would be much happier if everyone would quit trying to force
others to believe as they do.

Try it, you might find yourself happier

[Attila Iskander]

"Tom McDonald" <kil...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:vXLnt.9351$bK1....@newsfe11.iad...

> OK, what's your definition of men who sexually abuse prepubescent and
> young pubescent boys preferentially, who otherwise are heterosexual (i.e.
> don't have or want to have sex with sexually mature men), and are almost
> always married to women?
>

Pedophiles is the term I use.
And Just like rape, it's not really about the sex. It's about power and
control
And many will marry women as camouflage


> Gay men are not attracted to prepubescent and pubescent boys at a greater
> rate than are, let's say, otherwise straight men.
>

Agreed
Pedophilia is generally not about being straight or gay.
It's about having control over someone who is not able to stand up to you.



> Or are you sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex no matter how
> young they are?

Sexual attraction starts with puberty
Before then the great majority of kids are pretty asexual, unless they are
socialized to be otherwise
Case in point little girls participating in beauty pageants when they can
barely walk.
(That's a perversion in my mind equal to pedophilia)

[Attila Iskander]

"Christopher A. Lee" <chrisl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bovup89t94a66jiqp...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" <edrnouser@ spam telus.net>

> wrote:
>
>>Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
>>change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>

> Yet another stupid, nasty, lying theist.
>
> Did the moron "choose" not to believe in Santa Claus?

Did you chose to be a doofus ?
Or did you come by it naturally ?

[PV]

So the only reason to discriminate against Spirituality is.......?

The Scouting movement has had a Christian base from the beginning, read
Scouting for Boys if you don't believe me. So why should it change it's
belief structure because some don't like it.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....or the one.

[Attila Iskander]

"Not X" <no...@nomailatall.invalid> wrote in message
news:nhLnt.275738$Sh7.2...@fed06.iad...
> On 05/24/2013 08:20 AM, PV wrote:
>
> [snip]

>
>> Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
>> Scouts
>> change to accommodate those that choose atheism?
>>
>

> Atheism is simply the state of NOT being afflicted by a debilitating
> condition. It is NOT a choice, the same way NOT having Alzheimer's disease
> isn't a choice.
>

You are not born atheist
It's a choice you make somewhere along the way.