Do you believe in Jesus
Dave Haas
Do you believe in Jesus?
Suppose a group of people walk up to you on the street and one of them
introduces himself as John, the son of God? Those surrounding him say
they believe in John and have witnessed miracles he has performed. One
of his disciples announces from the crowd that John has healed the lame
and cured the sick. He says "our book teaches that the authorities
will cause John great suffering and kill him but he will not die! "Do
you believe that John is the Son of God? Why? Why not?
Suppose John proceeds to produce a glass filled with a clear liquid
seemingly from nowhere. "I shall turn this glass of water into wine" he
says and with a gesture the water turns into what appears to be wine.
He then says to you "will you believe me now that I am the son of God,
worship and serve me as your savior"?.
Would you?
Would you say that this man is a probably a fraud when you have direct
evidence that he has apparently performed miracles?
Trickery you say.
If it is so easy not to believe this man and his supporters how is it
possible for you to believe in a 2000 year old story based on hearsay
evidence. Beware of false Gods? John has warned his people of them
too.
None of the events which point to Jesus as the Son of God is current
like the evidence for John? Why is the bible, a book, written by humans
such a long time ago taken as the gospel truth? It is even quoted by
people as the word of God. Why is John's evidence that you can see with
your eyes not believed? Evidence which is stronger than the evidence
from a 2000 year old book?
Do you think people that lived in ancient times were more or less
gullible than you? What kind of experiences did the average man have
2000 years ago? How long did he live? What did he read? Did he know
what caused disease? What a comet was? What planets were? How old the
earth really was? Did he know about germs, penguins and dinosaurs?
Good nutrition and health care? Did he know a miracle when he heard
about it?
Just wondering.
D. Haas
Dave Haas
GailR
With all my heart and soul, with never a doubt, I forever do believe in
Jesus.
GailR
Dave Haas <dh...@uncfsu.campus.mci.net> wrote in article
<33F9701B...@uncfsu.campus.mci.net>...
> cbu...@reuna.cl wrote:
> >
> > Dave Haas wrote:
> > >
> > > Do you believe in Jesus?
> > >
> > what is the point? I do not think Jesus was the son of something
> > different than his mother and father, because I do not believ in
> > god...what else would you like to know?
> >
> > zand
>
> I would like to know if you can read.
>
Anne d'Hooge
Dave Haas wrote:
> Suppose John proceeds to produce a glass filled with a clear liquid
> seemingly from nowhere. "I shall turn this glass of water into wine" he
> says and with a gesture the water turns into what appears to be wine.
> He then says to you "will you believe me now that I am the son of God,
> worship and serve me as your savior"?.
>
I would say "nice trick", but that's about it.
As for the history of the bible, it is indeed strange that a man made
item is regarded as holy, without question. But I'm afraid christians are
not open to historical arguements, however logical they are.
Anne
Dave Haas
Buckethead
Dave Haas <dh...@uncfsu.campus.mci.net> wrote in article
<33F9701B...@uncfsu.campus.mci.net>...
> cbu...@reuna.cl wrote:
> >
> > Dave Haas wrote:
> > >
> > > Do you believe in Jesus?
> > >
> > what is the point? I do not think Jesus was the son of something
> > different than his mother and father, because I do not believ in
> > god...what else would you like to know?
> >
> > zand
What kind of underwear do you wear?
Mattheq
In article <340C2673...@earthlink.net>, Alan Wang
<alan...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> When people say they don't believe in God, it is because they have lost
> touch with God, they no longer feel God or they don't know God.
> They could also choose not to accept God (but that's not atheism.)
No, when people say they don't believe in god, it is because they have
considered all the possible options and have decided that the whole idea is
distinctly unlikely and pointless etc. It is because they think the
evidence we know at the moment seems to go against there being a god.
Mattheq
No Jesus, Know Peace,
Know Jesus, No Peace,
--
"And then, one Thursday nearly two thousand years after one man had been
nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change..."
Alan Wang
Anne d'Hooge wrote:
Hope you don't mind me crowding your mailbox, but sometimes it's
hard to find replies in discussion groups. You are taking things out of
context. Jesus did not tell people to worship him as the savior after
one
miracle. Infact, at many points in the gospels, many have acknowledged
that he is the son of God and he has told them to keep quiet that it was
not the time to reveal it yet. Jesus did not physically become the
Savior
of man AFTER he rose from the dead. I think the problem with accepting
the LORD with most people is the fact that there are many things that we
can not see but can only believe (Faith.) Your next question might
be: "How do you know what you believe is correct." I can only tell you
what I know or have experienced.
When people say they don't believe in God, it is because they have lost
touch with God, they no longer feel God or they don't know God.
They could also choose not to accept God (but that's not atheism.)
Alan.
Anne d'Hooge
Alan Wang wrote:
>
> Anne d'Hooge wrote:
>
> > As for the history of the bible, it is indeed strange that a man made
> > item is regarded as holy, without question. But I'm afraid christians
> > are
> > not open to historical arguements, however logical they are.
> >
> > Anne
>
> Hope you don't mind me crowding your mailbox, but sometimes it's
> hard to find replies in discussion groups.
Yes, I mind.
> You are taking things out of
> context.
No I'm not.
> Jesus did not physically become the
> Savior
> of man AFTER he rose from the dead.
He didn't, well not from the dead, anyway.
> When people say they don't believe in God, it is because they have lost
> touch with God, they no longer feel God or they don't know God.
> They could also choose not to accept God (but that's not atheism.)
>
When I say I don't believe in God, it means I don't believe in God.
Anne
Doug Schiffer
Alan Wang wrote:
>
> Anne d'Hooge wrote:
>
> >
> > > Suppose John proceeds to produce a glass filled with a clear liquid
> > > seemingly from nowhere. "I shall turn this glass of water into
> > wine" he
> > > says and with a gesture the water turns into what appears to be
> > wine.
> > > He then says to you "will you believe me now that I am the son of
> > God,
> > > worship and serve me as your savior"?.
> > >
> >
> > I would say "nice trick", but that's about it.
> >
> > item is regarded as holy, without question. But I'm afraid christians
> > are
> > not open to historical arguements, however logical they are.
> >
> > Anne
>
> Hope you don't mind me crowding your mailbox, but sometimes it's
>
> context. Jesus did not tell people to worship him as the savior after
> one
> miracle. Infact, at many points in the gospels, many have acknowledged
> that he is the son of God and he has told them to keep quiet that it was
> Savior
> of man AFTER he rose from the dead.
So, David Copperfield does many magic tricks. Then, he does a real
wambang magic trick where he appears to be nailed to a cross and dies.
His (apparently) dead body is taken to a cave. There, nobody sees him
for a time.
When they next see him, his is alive again. He even has some convincing
looking wounds to show for it. He then claims he is god incarnate.
Is it IMPOSSIBLE for a magician to fake this sort of thing?
Which is MORE likely - that a conjurer could stage a fake death and
resurrection - or that same conjurer is really a god-incarnate?
> I think the problem with accepting
> the LORD with most people is the fact that there are many things that we
> can not see but can only believe (Faith.)
I have seen magicians saw people in two, and then put them back together
(apparently). I guess if we have sufficient "faith" we could believe
these magicians really have cosmic powers over life and death.
On the other hand, others of us firmly resist these notions. While I
appreciate the illisions, I remain firm that no _real_ magic was used -
rather, known physical mechanisms and knowledge of how to manipulate
people's perceptions.
> Your next question might
> be: "How do you know what you believe is correct." I can only tell you
> what I know or have experienced.
>
> When people say they don't believe in God, it is because they have lost
> touch with God, they no longer feel God or they don't know God.
*HOW* do you KNOW this? Have you been other people? How you directly
experienced other people's beliefs and motivations in such intimate
details? Are you now make claims to clarvoyance? Or are you perhaps
claiming to be a god yourself?
> They could also choose not to accept God (but that's not atheism.)
What IS atheism?
Michael D. Bremseth
Alan Wang wrote:
> When people say they don't believe in God, it is because they have lost
> touch with God, they no longer feel God or they don't know God.
> They could also choose not to accept God (but that's not atheism.)
>
> Alan.
What a cogent argument! These so called "atheists" have just lost touch with
Thor. Luckily there are still open minded people like yourself who know Thor
(God). I didn't think I would find such affirmation on this newsgroup. Thank
you.
I pray that Thor's mighty hammer Mjölnir brings strength to you.