Re: Imagine No Atheism - over 70,000,000 people would still be alive
fasgnadh
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:42:32 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> Ah, how convenient it all is to forget the founders of the Soviet Union
>> were JEWS!
Fuck off you moronic anti-semite.
The only thing Hitler ever got right was this:
'Only one thing would have stopped our movement
- if our adversaries had understood its principle
and, from the first day, had smashed with
the utmost brutality the nucleus of our
new movement' -Adolf Hitler
> Lenin was Russian Orthodox.
Lenin was a committed atheist
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
> Stalin was a dropout from a Georgian Orthodox seminary.
It was the only place anyone could get an education, Stalin
was a committed atheist:
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
Between them, Mao and Pol Pot they terrorised, tortured and killed over
70,000,000 people;
Atheists tortured and killed tens of millions of their women;
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#RCW
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#ww2ussr
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;
# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000 [make link]
* Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.
# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]
* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M
######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################
# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):
40 000 000
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,
1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)
Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes who made their lives such misery and
despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled from their own evil and
incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck off the filthy atheist
shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path more tolerant of
religion.. since then their nations have prospered.. still suffering
the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of Civilisation and
making progress!!
Now, all you have to do is show similar EVIDENCE.. not some IDIOTIC
OPINIONS, or those of some other atheist cretins.. that countries like
the USA, which Prints "In God We Trust" on it's money, is in any way
such a murderous tyranny, torturing terrorising and murdering over
20,000,000 of it's citizens!
Off you go ... lets see some peer-reviewed historical evidence from
atheists!
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
> On Nov 6, 6:36 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> wrote:
>> http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
>>
>> Imagine no atheism
>
> Ja! Ja! First ve line zem up, zen ve shoot zem!
You sound like an atheist.. every atheist regime did just that!
over 70,000,000 victims of atheist tyranny;
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Shrikeback wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 6:36 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
> >>
> >> Imagine no atheism
> >
> > Ja! Ja! First ve line zem up, zen ve shoot zem!
>
> You sound like an atheist.. every atheist regime did just that!
That regime was the Nazi one which was, at least nominally, Christian.
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
> > On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:42:32 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ah, how convenient it all is to forget the founders of the Soviet Union
> >> were JEWS!
>
> Fuck off you moronic anti-semite.
Then Fasgnadh, as an even more vicious critic of Lenin as founder of the
USSR must be even more anti-Semitic.
> > Lenin was Russian Orthodox.
>
>
> Lenin was a committed atheist
Lenin took a necessary political position to gut the anti-revolutionary
activities of the Russian Church which was in an incestuous relation
with the Tsardom.
The evidence of nations with modern STRONGLY SECULAR DEMOCRATIC
GOVERNMENTS shows that religion is no longer of any benefit to humanity.
--
As a criterion for livability, being a MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETY is irrelevant
to atheists and agnostics, and even to theists unless their own religion is
dominant. What is highly relevant is having a SECULAR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
which protects everyone from unwanted religious pressures.
Richo
> Shrikeback wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 6:36 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
>
> >> Imagine no atheism
>
> > Ja! Ja! First ve line zem up, zen ve shoot zem!
>
> You sound like an atheist.. every atheist regime did just that!
>
How else do you achieve "no atheism"?
If you allow people the freedom to choose what to believe - to follow
their own conscience and reasoning - how will you stop people from
believing that "God" is a lot of superstitious twaddle?
Suggest a few methods. Use your imagination.
Mark.
Petzl
<m.richa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> You sound like an atheist.. �every atheist regime did just that!
>>
>
>How else do you achieve "no atheism"?
>If you allow people the freedom to choose what to believe - to follow
>their own conscience and reasoning - how will you stop people from
>believing that "God" is a lot of superstitious twaddle?
>
>Suggest a few methods. Use your imagination.
>
>Mark.
http://tinyurl.com/atheist-mp3
--
Petzl
Battle Hymn of the Republic
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JCqZ-9-lDEo
http://tinyurl.com/8vqqxd
Richo
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 02:45:56 -0800 (PST), Richo
>
> >> You sound like an atheist.. every atheist regime did just that!
>
> >How else do you achieve "no atheism"?
> >If you allow people the freedom to choose what to believe - to follow
> >their own conscience and reasoning - how will you stop people from
> >believing that "God" is a lot of superstitious twaddle?
>
> >Suggest a few methods. Use your imagination.
>
> >Mark.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/atheist-mp3
So ya got nothing?
Mark.
Petzl
<m.richa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://tinyurl.com/atheist-mp3
>
>So ya got nothing?
>
>Mark.
There is no purpose if you listen to the mp3
Petzl
--
Australia is a Christian nation,
Australian society is based on
a Christian culture with Christian values and Christian principles.
We have nothing to be ashamed of in stating that
cornholio
> In article <MhGJm.53299$ze1.8...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>
> fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > Shrikeback wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 6:36 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@dcemail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >>http://questiondarwin.blogspot.com/2007/09/imagine-no-atheism.html
>
> > >> Imagine no atheism
>
> > > Ja! Ja! First ve line zem up, zen ve shoot zem!
>
> > You sound like an atheist.. every atheist regime did just that!
>
> That regime was the Nazi one which was, at least nominally, Christian.
Nice try linking Christianity with nazism asshole:
http://www.adherents.com/people/ph/Adolf_Hitler.html
Over a million Christians died fighting the nazis....incl. my
Great Uncle. GFY.
Richo
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 03:56:19 -0800 (PST), Richo
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/atheist-mp3
>
> >So ya got nothing?
>
> >Mark.
>
> There is no purpose if you listen to the mp3
>
I listened. It didnt change my mind.
I wasnt made for a purpose - but that doesnt mean I cant give my own
life meaning.
In fact the idea that I was "made for a purpose" - like a hammer or a
spade - doent actually seem very apealing. A living being with free
will is much better than a "thing" with a "purpose".
A living being with a mind and a will of its own is a much better
thing to be than a tool with a purpose.
Mark.
Virgil
be alive today would be at least as old as Lenin would be, if he were
alive today.
Lenin was born 22 April 1870, so would be over 139 years old today.
And if there had been no opposition to those Marxist governments, none
of these 70 million need have died.
It was the conflict that killed them. And theists are as guilty of that
conflict as any atheists ere.
Day
>>> Ja! Ja! First ve line zem up, zen ve shoot zem!
>> You sound like an atheist.. every atheist regime did just that!
>
> That regime was the Nazi one which was, at least nominally, Christian.
dragged out to be shot. And as for the Nazis, there was a kind of
neopagan movement to return to the original Aryan religion. too bad they
gave up on it, for the true Aryans would not have cared about the "Jews"
or anything else Jewish scriptures like the Bible go on about.
Neitzsche understood this. Its a testament to the lack of scholarship on
the part of Liberals that the Nazis could claim Nietzsche as a patron
saint, and yet they never mentioned how he said anti-Semites were
buffoons, who go 'around with pointy hoods covering their straw heads',
stirring up all the asinine elements of the nation.
Note as well that Atheism only rants against Levantine religions, and
never take on Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism. This looks like a
strawman to only choose to debate the most asinine religions as if that
is all there are.